from michigan and an arizona republican rep. at 9:15 eastern, we'll look administration's new rules regarding the type of snacks phones sold in school vending machines. our guest is the food safety reporter for bloomberg news. host: it is primary day in michigan and arizona. polls are showing a very tight race for mitt romney in his native state of michigan, but the former massachusetts governor has a double-digit lead in arizona. look for our coverage tonight of the two primaries on cspan.org. president obama who need the state of michigan for a second term will speak in washington today before the united autoworkers. we'll cover the president's speech. go our website for more details. good morning, everyone, on this

tuesday, february, 28. you've heard the back and forth over higher education with president obama engaging the former pennsylvania senator rick santorum on the issue yesterday and governor romney adding his thoughts as well. what's your take on this? how will the debate impact your vote? >> we also want to get some e-mail from you -- the washington times this morning has the headline about this debate. backup rebukes criticism he's an education snob. santorum defends non-degree work. that's in the "washington times" this morning as we wait for your phone calls to come in on this and get your take on it. i want to bring you over when

the debate started. rick santorum talking about this issue at an event in troy, michigan, on saturday. >> i know what manufacturing means to a community. i grew up in one. i understand what it means to have folks who are at the bottom of the economic ladder, folks who are struggling to pull the skills together to be able to get value in the marketplace for their skills. and i know what it means to have those manufacturing jobs at those entry levels that get you in there and gives you the opportunity to accumulate more skills over time and rise so you can provide a better standard of living for your family. and the opportunities for working men and women, not all folks are give ited in the same way. some people have incredible gifts with their hands. some people have incredible gifts at using one to work, out there, making things. president obama once said he wants everybody in america to go

college. what a snob. >> rick santorum last night went on the fox newsen the shawn hannity show and was talk -- asked to clarify his comments he made over the weekend. here's what he had to say over the program. >> when i was talking about here's barack obama who is trying to tell you what health care planinic have. tell you what light bulb you're going to be able to turn on if you put cap and trade you're going to trade. tell you what -- this is a talk down. we know best for you. we're going to run your life and you're going to like it attitude and he comes out and says well, everybody should go to college. i mean, this is the kind of stuff that people has had enough of. don't try to guarantee quality of results. the equality of opportunity to

go to trade school, military, to serve our country and to serve this economy in the ways that people want to do, not what he thinks is best. host: that was rick santorum last night talking about the comments he made on higher education. that's our question for all of you this morning. we want to get your take on this. what do you think? will it impact your vote? and if so, how? "the washington post" has this headline on the issue "santorum takes heat for the snob comment." -- when you look at what's going on in other countries, china, india, the premium they put on higher education, we've got to do better if we still want to do the global leader we are. mcdonnell also echoed arizona governor jan brewer and

mississippi governor phil bryant and bobby jindal who has not endorsed any of the remaining candidates in the presidential race. good morning, cheryl. caller: tough. thank you for taking my call. i personally, it will affect my vote with what mr. santorum vote as a pennsylvania resident. i remember when santorum was our senator. everybody standing on that stage has a college education and i think everyone should have the opportunity to have a college education. i myself am paying off student loans because i've been trying to go back over the past 30 years and get an education so that i can break the cycle of poverty. my daughter is graduating from penn state in may.

it's taken every single dime i have and debt from her. i'm just trying to break the cycle of poverty and i think everybody deserves an opportunity for a higher education without owing enough in the end to basically by a house. they graduate with so much debt that they can't even move on to -- they're just going to be hammered with this debt for how many years after they can graduate and i just hope i can make a difference in her life and break that cycle so that we can move up. host: but cheryl, i mean, do you see where rick santorum's coming from? that, you know, college education, four-degree degree can be very expensive -- four-year degree. not everybody can afford it. >> that's right. but i myself have been -- i've been working all my life. every time i get at the education it takes to perform a job that i have to make enough

money to live, then everything changes. and then you're starting all over without a degree in something, you're starting from nowhere without a degree. host: all right. let's hear from marcia. she's a democrat in austin, texas. caller: hi. greetings from central texas. i think it's kind of disingenuous that rick santorum would take one word of what the president said, pull that one word out and then call the president a snob? he pulled out the word college. which is good. college is great. but the president also said apreventship, trade school, vocational school, et cetera. i mean, why would he just take one -- santorum just take one word out of there? if i had not gotten my degree, i

went back when i was almost 30 and i went through with my degree. without that degree, i was not scransing as fast in the business world as after i've got the degree. after i've got the degree, i skipped two job titles, get $300 or $400 more just to switch jobs. host: how long did take you to pay your student loans? caller: no, i paid them off in a few years. it wasn't bad. back then, it was a lot better. the president has put forth this student loan thing. he signed that into effect, when was that? last year he signed that bill about student loans? so that people could have the opportunity to go back and i did go back on 100% of financial aid. i went, you know, i didn't have anything, and i knew i was never

going to have anything and i applied for financial aid and part of mine was work study. i worked on campus. host: ok. caller: but, you know, i just knew that i would never get ahead without it. that's an opportunity being offered and rick santorum has the gall to call the president a snob? host: all right. let's listen to the president if his own words yesterday before the national governor's association gathering at the white house. he talked about education elementary, high school education as well as higher education and here's what he had to stay on the issue of higher education. >> the jobs in the future are beyond high school degree. when i speak about higher education, we're not just talking about a four-year degree. we're talking about somebody going to a community college and getting trained for that manufacturing job that now is requiring somebody walking

through the door, handling $1 million piece of equipment and they can't go in there unless they got some basic training beyond what they received in high school. we all want americans getting those jobs of the future. so we're going to have to make sure that they are getting the education that they need. we can't allow higher education to be a luxury in this country. it's an economic imperative that every family in america has to be able to afford. and frankly, i don't think any of this should be a partisan issue. >> higher education, the impact this debate is having on your vote. joseph an independent in north carolina, what do you think? caller: well, it felt like he was calling my mama a snob because she told me i had to go to college and even though it hadn't done me any good, one thing she said to me while i was in school was significant. she said a college degree is like a hunting license for inquiring minds and i spent a lot of time in the service and

now i'm a firefighter. i think what she says is true because there's a lot of things that come up in a job that is technical that's truly is. those crafts that take us to, you take someone with a master college like two weeks. we've had a lot of guys with college degrees or partial college degrees, that extra training helped them. so that's kind of like a real -- how do you say? simplification of the way school affects people's lives. host: all right. james, a republican in flushing, michigan. james, go ahead. caller: i just want to say that an education should be something that everyone should share. the thing is, it's about what benefits the person and persons in the trade are in. you can go to college and get a master degree and try to get the

job somewhere and you're without a job. and what happens is you've got men and women that are working at mcdonald's or -- if i can say that, any other company that can get a job because they've had an master's degree considered too high an employee so they can't get a. john it's about choice. i think people blowing things up because they called obama a snob. i think it's just -- and what he said covered it best. if you look at the whole picture of people who have went to college and has got $100,000 or better in debt for an education and they're working at mcdonald's and they can't afford to pay their loans off or they're working two part-time jobs because they can't get a job for -- because they got this master's degree in business or whatever and then they're just out of luck. their hands are tied. i went back to school.

i finished school. i did that when i was 38 years old. and i'm making it. i'm making it. i went back and i did an associates degree but i took a skill that i've learned out here from jobs here and there and working part-time and this and that jobs. i'm doing very well. i think rick santorum has a plan and it's about choice and i don't think that everyone should have to go to college. it should be a choice and -- host: james, are you planning to vote for rick santorum today in the primary? caller: oh, yes, very much so. host: ok. and why him over mitt romney? caller: because he has a plan. he's all about the plan. he's not all about making it about political slander. he's actually got a plan and it's not about promises that can't be made. i mean, the things that he's come out with over the time and

he just has a plan. host: all right. breaking up there a little bit at the end there, james. here's some higher education facts for you based on the united states 2010 census. 26,000 is the average amount workers with a bachelor degree earn above workers with a high school diploma. $61,000 is the average amount workers with an advanced degree earn above workers with a high school diploma. / >> males 25 or older have some

college or no degree -- females 25 and over -- host: so our question for all of you -- what do you think of the politics of it? will it impact your vote? darryl, a democrat in denville, new jersey. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i find this whole discussion about rick santorum's comments to be appauling. i mean, i'm almost 50 years old and i have seen a lot. i have never seen a presidential candidate say something as ridiculous as rick santorum has said. first of all, he is completely disingenuous to mischaracterize or mischaracterize the president's position.

the president never said everybody needs to go back and get a four-year degree or master's degree or advance degree. this whole idea of funding community colleges so they can train people to meet the needs of the local employers, manufactures, et cetera, i mean, this is part of the president's educational plan. so rick santorum is being completely dishonest and if you remember, for a guy who has -- furthermore, for a guy who has three degrees, for him to say oh, no, you know, you don't need to go to college. it's not necessary. you can work with your hands. please tell me where are you going to work with your hands in today's manufacturing? where are you going to work and make a good living to feed your family and maybe provide a better life for your children without a degree? with just a high school diploma? i mean, those kinds of jobs have gone and they are not coming

back. and any parent who would go out there knowing rick santorum's position and vote for rick santorum, hoping for a better life for their children, i just -- it requires a degree of cognitive dissident that it's just shocking to me. caller: i didn't grow up here but i grew up in an area in minnesota where my brothers and i, we worked on horse farms at school. i worked on the farms from the time i was in seventh grade until i went in the service and these were wealthy areas and i'll tell you something. rick santorum doesn't know what he's talking about. these guys were snobs. he has no idea what snob is and what the president said wasn't snobbish. and he's not pushing it on everybody.

i think a lot of what you guys are afraid of is they get on their bandwagon with the democrats. they think the democrats want to refer everything to socialism or something like that. oh, everybody has to go to school. oh, that's rubbish. he's running the campaign. that's all he's doing. host: all right. here's a tweet from jody on twitter. a higher education is a huge advantage but not every american wants to wear a suit. some want to work outside in the dirt. so you can send us your comments to twitter.com. and also facebook.com/c-span. here's one from maggie who says i agree with santorum that not everybody needs to go to college. --

host: when you raise a young person with one set of ideas, reinforce via face community and send your young person far away from their community to a place where they're exposed to different ideas, they often change their belief. that is what connor wrote for the atlantic yesterday, posted that on the atlantic's blog yesterday. he goes on to say this, though. it is nevertheless true that institutions of higher education generally value reasons more than faith. they value intellectual achievement more than moral achievement. --

host: birmingham, alabama, sandra, a republican. what do you think? caller: yes. i totally agree with rick santorum. i stand behind him. i think that the republicans are just trying to put mr. romney in and to me, he's just another john mccain. he will not be voted for. so please take a listen. it seems as if the president or the leaders in -- whoever they are, are trying to do like it was in germany and in russia right now, trying to tell people what to do. line them up for the jobs and i just stand by rick santorum. thank you for taking my call. host: did you always believe that way? or was it when rick santorum said it that that crystallized it? caller: no. i believe in freedom. i'm having grand kids that i raise for my daughter that

passed away. school is horrible. school is not like teaching anymore. they are taught not to respect their parents. they are taught to for get everything. anyone over 30 years old, you forget what they say. it's horrible out there. and people can't see it. these younger people cannot see it because they haven't lived through things that we have lived through. host: all right. caller: i do stand behind rick santorum. host: so sandra, are you encouraging your grand kids to not seek a four-year college? maybe do a community college or a technical college? caller: that's the whole thing. that's their choice. host: yeah. caller: you encourage them to get their basic education and let them choose what they want to be. don't tell them you've got to do this, you've got do that. i'm a registered nurse but i chose to do that. it's your choice. this is america. host: all right, that's sandra on the republican line. want to show you what mitt romney had to stay on the issue. he, too, was on sean hannity's

show on fox yesterday and was asked about the debate. >> not everybody's going to go to college of course and people have different courses in their life they want to pursue. some folks have other ambitions and want to go in different directions. we want people have freedom and opportunity to pursue their happiness that is appropriate for them. but, you know, i'm not going to worry about incendiary language. this is a time for us to come together as people and for us to provide opportunity for all of our citizens. host: we'll keep taking your comments on this issue here this morning. we have about 20 minutes or so left. but want to give you some politics news. some other politics news about the michigan and arizona primaries. here's the "detroit free press" this morning. michigan votes count. it's make or break day for romney and santorum. polls are showing that it is very tight in that state and whoever comes out ahead will do

so by a very narrow margin. here is "the new york post" with what's at stake in the two primaries today. in michigan, there are 30 delegates awarded propositionnally to the vote. in arizona, it's 29 delegates in a winner take all primary. and then we look to next week, to super tuesday. 10 states with a total of 437 delegates, mostly divided proportionally. said that the polls are showing a very tight race in michigan. i want to show you from the "baltimore sun" where things stand in arizona. massachusetts governor mitt romney leading that in that state. 41.4% on monday to rick santorum's 22.2 -- 28.2%.

in michigan, it's a real battle here. 37.3% showing mitt romney slightly ahead to rick santorum's 35.8%. but they have gone back and forth over the last couple of days. and other polls show rick santorum ahead by a couple of points. and then overall in the national polls, you can see here that rick santorum leading mitt romney 33.1% to 29.8%. and newt gingrich 14% and ron paul about 12%. nolan finley who is our guest this past weekend on "washington journal" has a piece today. in the final days, still a horse race. and it says that last night's poll went south for romney, putting former pennsylvania senator rick santorum back in the lead by two points.

37-35. mitchell says romney is losing support in every category. his analyst is -- analysis santorum has managed to convince voters he is a fiscal and social conservative making him the whole package the minds of republicans on romney's position on social issue. and here from the "detroit free press" website, santorum campaign asks for democrats to vote for him and asking democrats to show up in the open primary today in michigan. democrats and independents and vote for him. in the robo call, this is what is being said. that -- the their -- their tir said romney supported the bailout but opposed the g.m. and chrysler --

host: we see evidence that's actually happening. romney leads 43 to 38 but santorum's up 47 to 10 with democratic voters and even though will there's are 8%, that's enough to put him over the top. the big question is whether those folks will bother to show up and vote. and then the "detroit free press" out with their endorsement of mitt romney for today's primary. derby, kentucky, michael, democratic caller there. we're talking about this higher education debate, getting your take on it. will it impact your vote? caller: actually, it's derby, connecticut. host: oh, sorry about that. caller: that's quite all right. what i wanted to say is i would actually vote for rick santorum. i really do feel that we need to

get obama out of there. i just lost my job and i was a retail software seller and the reason i lost my job is there's no jobs out there for people. and so they didn't need me anymore because there's no jobs. so actually about the college education, you know, parents had to work those kind of jobs to pay for their children's education. and so i feel that what he said about obama is actually true. and i wish that people were not idiots and vote for obama one more time. this is not right. rick santorum gives me hope for the future and i feel that if rick santorum gets in as president, i'm going to have a job very soon. that's how i feel. host: michael, did you vote for president obama in 2008?

caller: i certainly did not. i didn't vote for bush either. i'm a smart democrat where i don't have to vote for democrats because i'm a deps. -- democrats. obama's got $1 million he's going against any candidates on the republican side but mitt romney is just another obama. host: why do you say that? why is he just another obama? caller: because i think he has the same value as obama. he passed that romney care in massachusetts and it's no different than what obama care is going to be and it scares me because if somebody's going to decide whether i can get the care or not get the care, what is my point? i have trouble right now going to a doctor. and of course when you're not working, yeah, that's not easy to get, you know, doctor, you know, care, but at the same time

, i don't want nobody dictating my medical care. i'd rather not have it than to have itsied on somebody else like katharine win. you can understand where i'm going right now as a democrat. i'm losing my -- and losing my job really makes me not like obama. i'm sorry. i think he's a nice guy. he conned me. i didn't vote for him. but, you know, that was the whole deal. host: all right. valerie's a democrat in maui, hawaii. good morning to you, hawaii. caller: oh, hi. i was just calling to say that i hated school. i hated college. i tried and it only lasted about three months. but i went to a trade school that didn't take very young, didn't cost very much money and i've had a great career for 25 years. i do think that the liberal colleges are just basically re-education camps for their

socialist agenda that has been shoved down our throats for the last 60 years, maybe we didn't pay attention. but now we're paying attention. since i don't have kids but i do have nieces and nephews and i hate the thought of them going to the liberal colleges and if they were mine, i would send them to hillsdale, but they're not. host: ok. caller: yeah. host: all right. that was valerie in hawaii. back to the arizona primary this morning. the washington times has this piece that mitt romney has received the endorptes of immigration hard liners such as the arizona governor jan brewer, pete wilson and exactly of state crisco vac and the arizona primary today in this washington times piece, they say it could be a test of how well, he with the hispanic community. that makes tuesday's vote a test

of turnout and percentages. -- host: other than that, he said he supports no new citizenship right for illegal immigrants and proposing they have a great period to get their affairs in order before going back to their countries. in the "l.a. times" this morning, they have a piece about how romney's immigration stand

differences from the mormon church. the mormon church supported -- allowed illegal immigrants to remain in the state if they worked and didn't commit crimes -- host: in arizona this morning, excuse me, the -- yesterday was the deadline for candidates to turn in petitions for the april 17th special election to replace retiring congresswoman gabriel giffords for that seat. and her democratic aide who was injured alongside her during that accident last year, ron barber has gotten more than enough signatures about 7,000. he needed just 671 signatures and was able to get 7,000. so that's from the arizona central.com website this

morning. back to our question for all of you. this higher education debate. david in california. what do you think? caller: hi. yeah, i'm a high-tech robotics executive and the idea of the same old jobs are going to be there is a little naive and so all of america probably needs to increase their education level by three or four years going from a high school dropout all the way through college. the thing we're not talking about is the cost of higher education. people are complaining about the fact that they're paying more, but we've always been paying more through taxes. what's going to probably happen or what the government ought to be looking at doing is providing a free online education to every

american. -- through both high school and college so that people have the choice. that would probably cost about $1 billion, maybe $2 billion and the scheme of spending $500 billion, $600 billion a year. it would be an investment that would make higher education available to all americans on their own time, on their own schedule and to the level that they want to attain at the lowest possible cost. and that would also impact jobs in higher education but from a standpoint of educating the american workforce, that's the lowest cost wage you're going to see it and it's going to happen. whether the federal government decides to do anything about it now or in -- or when in the future, i mean, it's going to

happen whether it's in the private sector or in the public sector. host: all right. we're talking about higher education back and forth between rick santorum, the president weighing in yesterday. mitt romney also talking about it on fox news yesterday. part of the 2012 campaign, and our coverage continues of primaries tonight. go to cspan.org and go to our road to the white house campaign 2012 website to find out what we're covering and when of the arizona and michigan primaries. back to our question though for all of you. and i just want to show you what the census has put together on this issue of higher education and what it means for compensation. the median earnings for full-time workers by educational attainment in 2009. if you didn't get a high school graduate -- not a high school graduate, the average income is about $24,000. alternative, around $21,000.

-- host: margie rhode island's democrat in california. good morning. caller: that's always been the american dream. that's something we strayed away from and it's really sad that we don't support them because we do -- lack of knowledge and i think the commitment to education could show commitment to whatever it is that you get into. and the one thing that i say -- one thing that i say about the candidates that when it comes to campaigning that if they really have a passion for what they can do for this country, then what they need to do is stand on that and speak in truth and not spend

so much time combating what someone else didn't do correct because no one yet has been able to hold that position on their own. and so we keep having elections and thinking? we put someone new into this seat, they're going to solve the world's problem. this is done collectively. so stop focusing on the negative on what someone didn't do and work together on what did work and come together, this would be a better country. i think we spend more time focusing on the negative and, you know, in pointing the finger at what people didn't do i think and we should just try to start changing that and the campaign -- you know, the people running for position won't know what that's like until they're actually in that seat. and then what they're going to have to broken promises based on what they say they're going to give us. so i just -- i think that we should, you know, i think we should continue to support

higher education because we have our grandchildren and then their kids coming along. host: ok. caller: and we're not going to make it without that. host: all right. all right. i want to tell you what debates are happening up on capitol hill this week. politico's front page story. boehner's hands-off style backfires on a highway bill. it looks like that is not going to happen. and pushing maybe for a two-year bill. the senate is taking up that issue this week in their chamber on the floor. votes expected on that. and then also this is the hill newspaper this morning with the update o'with cameras on the court, something that c-span has been asking for to cover the oral arguments for the health care law case. bills to put cameras in supreme court won't pass before the health care challenge. it is not going to pass before the justices tackle what has

been dubbed the case of the century. and then from the "new york times" this morning, democrats, see benefits enbattling republicans on the conception access issue. they plan to hold a vote on a measure offered by roy blunt that when effect reduce insurance effect by allowing religious institutions not cover it. -- host: transcanada will move ahead of the keystone pipeline

and it is expected to move on the bigger project -- host: springhill, florida. david, a republican. good morning to you. caller: hi. how are you? host: good morning. caller: as far as the education is concerned, i consolidated federal loans in the federal family educational loan program. i was just taken away in 2007. it is expensive. the gentleman that spoke earlier from california, he's 100%

correct. if we would streamline and put things online, i would really, really, really cut down the -- it would really, really, really cut down the cost. and the other factor is i think everybody has certain gift. and we're going to focus a lot when their children, 4 and 5 years old. you can't put 40 and 50 students in the classroom and expect them all to learn at the same level. it's impossible. because we're all individuals. and i think people forget that. we take away the humanistic side of individuals. and that's the problem with this country anyway. as far as who i'm voting for? mitt romney? no way. rick santorum? he's too angry. he scares me. ron paul? the only sensible person that i have ever heard of in my entire life. when i saw a youtube video on

him talking about what was going to happen in 2002 with our economy, with the housing market , he has vision. he foresaw this. and you know what, he bikes 25 miles a day. it doesn't matter that he's 77 years old. host: thank you. good morning. you're on the air. caller: yes. i was just calling to let you guys know that i'm for higher education. i mean, like i'm -- when i was younger, i was, you know, i wanted to be an archaeologist and i figured out at a young age i needed a higher education to get there. you can't walk around and digging dirt all day, you know? learn these stuff on my own. so i needed a higher education. so i'm all for it. host: all right. more politics for you. this is omaha world he recalled newspaper this morning. front page.

the former senator bob kerry is back on the fence on senate. he's rethinking a bid for ben nelson sees seat who is retiring. that's the headline in the "omaha world he recalled." and then the lincoln journal starkery rethinking run for the senate is their headline about that story. and houston chronicle also has the pipeline story. keystone's texas leg given top priority. transcanada splits up project while it reapplies for northern route. last phone call on our discussion for higher education debate and its impact on your vote. louis in harvard, connecticut. -- hartford, connecticut. caller: santorum does have three college degrees. actually, one more than president obama has. so santorum is really the snob. because what he's saying is higher education is good enough for him but maybe not for others. also when santorum complained that many kids leave college,

leaving their faith or lidge behind, so what? they're adults. isn't that their rights? that's the problem i have with evangelicals. they want to take lidge and -- religion and infuse it everywhere. host: up next, we're going to keep our attention on the michigan-arizona primary with two members of congress and in 45 minute, we'll talk with jeff flake. but up next, representative hansen clarke, democrat of michigan represents the detroit area. we'll be right back. >> bobby jindal is ready to

reveal his proposal. a budget $900 million in the red. it's mostly cloudy and 37 degrees at the airport, 38 in men don. you're listening to shreveport bossier's news and weather station. >> this weekend, book tv and american history tv is in sthreefment, louisiana. 12k5 gary joiner on the union's failure. the red river campaign of 1861k346789 a look at the over 200,000 books of a john smith nobel collection. then a walking tour of shreveport in bossier city with neil johnson. and on american history tv on c-span3, sunday at 5:00 p.m. eastern from barksdale air force base, a look at the base's role on 9/11 and a history of the

b-52 bomber. and visit the founding father's autographed collection at the louisiana state exhibit museum. and medical treatment and medicine during the civil war. shreveport, louisiana, this weekend on c-span2 and 3. >> this particular phone only rings in a serious crisis. put it in the hands from a man proven responsible. >> bush and due ka is on crime. dukakis allowed first degree murders to have weekend passes from prison. one was willy horton. >> the accusations that john kerry made against the veterans who served in vietnam was devastating. >> randomly shot at civilians. >> we can all point to an outrageous commercial or two or three or four. but on average, negative

commercials are more likely to be factually correct and negative commercials are more likely to talk about issues. >> will 2012 go down as the most negative campaign psych until history? a new america foundation discussion looks at sandurnt past political campaigns and their impact on american culture. watch this and past panels on campaign ads online at the c-span video library. search, watch, click, and share. it's what you want, when you want. host: we want to welcome back to our taylor, congressman hansen clarke, a democrat of michigan at michigan-arizona primaries today. let's focus on your state of michigan. >> sure. host: mitt romney was on shawn hannity last night on the fox network. was asked about the auto bailout issue and what it means for the state. here's what he sad to spay. >> he right way to get detroit

to come back is to get the american economy to come back by changing the entire relationship between government and the private sector. this president has to view that government should dominate what's happening in the private sector. he continues to have general motors shares in the hands of government. they're directing the course of general motors in ways they shouldn't and he's given a big hunk of general motors and the right course is to have lower corporate taxes and lower marginal taxes for americans across the board. secondly to get regulations to work to encourage free enterprise, not to stiflet. third is to have energy policies. fourth is to have trade with other nations. open up new trade agreement. this president has stalled in that front. and crack down on china for stealing our jobs in an unfair way. you do those things, detroit will come back, america will come back and we'll be working again. host: agree? disagree? >> you need to invest in detroit

and that's what the president did when his leadership help rescue the auto industry. the president's tough decisive action by providing those emergency loans saved not only the auto industry, but our u.s. economy. and so many of our jobs actually come from manufacturing and folks in michigan, they're doing much better now that the president was able to help save the auto industry and we have many folks in michigan who are uninsured right now, no health assurance, at risk of going -- health insurance, at risk on the bankruptcy. they're going to be helped because of the president's leadership. so yeah, he totally has it wrong. our country's economy is strong because of manufacturing, because of investing in detroit. that's what the president has done. and that's why michigan's going to support him in november. host: congressman, the poll showing a little bit different

take on this issue of the auto bailout. here's a gallup poll from february 20 through 21. 51% of all those polled disapproved to the federal government autobailout. 31% of democrats degree. but the pollsters point out about this poll that crucial for obama's re-election, less than half, 45% of independents approve of the auto bailout. is that problem for the president? guest: no, it's not. the reason why the people will vote for the president and what they're concerned about is the overall health of the economy. if they're doing better now than they were before, our economy is so much stronger and they're going to see the benefit of the increased jobs because of a stronger auto industry. so a lot of this is just because of political messaging. so people may not really fully

appreciate how our economy has grown so much now. the spirit of america's economy and confidence in it has grown as well. and that's because of the president's leadership. host: we're learning today from polls and other places that democrats it's an open primary in michigan. democrats are being encouraged to turn out and vote from the labor unions are encouraging democrats to go up and vote for rick santorum and in order to undermine mitt romney for -- as a candidate for the general election. do you think that's appropriate? should democrats be voting in this primary? guest: there are some people that are asking democrats to cross over. i voted. i voted absentee and i voted for president obama. so i'm encourage everyone right now who's watching, vote for president obama. vote for who you think is going to be the best person to lead our country the next four years. it's clearly the president. he saved the auto jobs and he's provided our families with

financial security and opportunity to get more affordable education. host: on this issue of the labor union, president obama speaking today in washington before the united auto workers. they're having their conference in washington, likely be talking about the auto bailout, but what else does he need to say to the united auto workers? guest: every worker must have the right to bargain collectively. that's so important. and i know this first hand. my father was an immigrant from india. he died when i was 8 years old. he died of-a-slow painful death because he worked in the auto plants before the u.a.w. and workers were able to organize and effectively negotiate workplace protections because he breathed all that stuff and soot in his lungs and he died because of that. organized labor help save the lives of many parents after that. they weren't able to save my dad's life but this country's

strong because we've had labor being an advocate for our workers getting paid a fair wage and benefit and that's so important if we want to create jobs. not only do we need to manufacture the best products that can be sold worldwide which we are right now, our american people must have the noun be able to buy them if we want to prosper and create more jobs. labor is essential to our economy and our future. host: michigan's december unemployment rate, 9.3%. ranks 11th worst among states including d.c. is president obama doing enough to bring jobs? guest: yes. he is working to create jobs. and what he's doing is what many of the republicans don't see the value of -- host: even though the unemployment higher is higher than the national average? guest: but we were the worst in the country before for a long time and now people are going back to work. my buddies are working in the auto plants but people are having hope. they feel good about themselves. going back to school, knowing that the president is helping

making college more affordable, reducing student loan debt. the recent housing agreement that he helped brokered nationally is going to help many folks in michigan stay in their homes who otherwise would lose their homes and life savings in foreclosures. people understand this president is fighting for them directly for their economic interest. host: president obama has seen some uptick in his approval ratings including to the latest politico. president obama's perishable approval rating, 74%. overall approval, 53% but on this issue of people feeling optimistic, the president's numbers are not that great. if you look at president obama on jobs in the economy and budget issues, when people were asking the g.w. university battleground poll, 59% disapprove of the president when it comes to federal budget and spending. --

guest: first of all, we went through a horrific recession in this country. and in michigan, especially in metro detroit, it was an outright depression. it was the worst i've ever seen and i've grown up in the streets of detroit. people see the positive difference now. people are going back to work in michigan with good paying jobs. people are able to go back to school now and they're able to afford it. the white house, i only share this with you. a lot of people don't -- the president was working behind the scenes helping people. right now, the white house is working on an initiative to train metro detroiters for jobs that are already available in michigan but go on sales and the information technology space, because we don't have people trained for that. he's doing that now. that's going to train people for over 3,000 jobs. now be filled immediately. people are not aware of this, but once they see the benefit of what he's doing and know that

the president -- the cause of these great things that are happening in our economy no doubt people will vote for him. host: hansen accumulation, our congressman from michigan. -- clarke, our congressman from michigan. norman is on the phone. good morning, norman. caller: hello? host: norman, you're on the air. caller: prior to the president -- restructuring the automobile industry, there was a survey taken by yale university economist and they said that it would cost the government $80 billion in pension funds and the loss of incomes for the jobs loss. and that this investment would help bring it back. you should remember those three executives came in their own private planes at that time and they were not concerned about

the welfare of the automobile industry. the president did the right thing, saved the industry and the money was invested properly, especially they were able to borrow it in such a cheap rate and where would we be today without all those ancillary, all these other supports of the automobile industry? host: congressman, the washington times this morning echos what that caller has to say with some numbers. they say three years after the u.s. auto industry nearly collapsed, sales of cars and trucks are surging and could exceed 14 million vehicles compared with just 12.8 million last year. the result car makers are adding shifts and hiring thousands of workers across the country. car makers and parts company added more than 38,000 jobs last year, reaching a total of 717,000. but there's a downside. the newfound success is strange factory network as well as the

companies that make the thousands of parts that go into each vehicle and this could lead to shortages that drive up prices. are you hearing about this in metro detroit? what are you hearing? guest: no, this is a good problem to have. we need more capacity and this is why the president's strong city strong communities initiative where he brings all of this cab that departments to help rebuild certain cities in the united states, six of them, and detroit has been one of them, will help redevelop a lot of the vacant thrant we have. we can build new plants in detroit but we need to have better business climate. the president is improving our schools, stabilizing our housing stock and train people for jobs. so that's great. that means what the president's done has been a success. detroit has a well-trained workforce. we have the property and the research universities to build more capacity and create more jobs.

so he's working on rebuilding the city which will create jobs not only in michigan but throughout the country. host: we're taking your phone calls, e-mails and tweets here for congressman from michigan and we have -- we want to hear from you as well, locals from michigan. david, an independent in inglewood, new jersey. you're up next for congressman hanson clarke. go ahead. caller: yes. i think that congressman is living in a dream world. my first point and please don't cut me off, i'll be quick. my first point is democrats have controlled the state of michigan and the city of detroit for how many decades? two democratic senators, a democratic governor, the congressional delegation is majority democrat. the mayor of detroit has been a democrat. so when you blame the economy, don't you have to look in the mirror and my second point is

because no one help destroy michigan and detroit more son than the democratic party and unions, they demand it too much. my second point is everybody keeps saying what obama inherited. people forget obama was in the u.s. senator for four years. he has he has supported policies. cars have to have 55 miles per gallon. what is that going to do to try? that is going to help destroy it. you cannot make those cars for a profit, and no one wants those cars. host: he says democrats in the unions are responsible for the downfall of detroit. guest: we have lost one-quarter of a million residents of the last 10 years, but that is a result of many factors, not

number one, the housing crisis. we allowed homes to go under foreclosure. we allowed people to become victims of predatory loans. number two it was a misguided takeover of the detroit public school system that resulted in many good schools been closed, and as a result parents left the city of detroit with their tax dollars. the president has effectively addressed the foreclosure problem with this landmark settlement that will help people stay in their homes. as a member of the science committee, i have been working with the secretary of education, arne duncan to help improve america's schools, and the president understands the value

of reducing class size so young people can learn more. he has a plan to build the city, and has taken action. the caller does not understand why detroit has been in these problems -- housing, education, for trade policy. it was not because of the wages and benefits of workers. detroit is in a financial crisis, but it also has extraordinary assets, a well- trained work force, the great research universities, and the capacity to build new plants and create more jobs for the tried and all of this country. dick right -- detroit was an arsenal democracy in the past. we created millions of jobs. we have the capability of creating jobs throughout the country in manufacturing. that is why the president took

leadership to save the auto industry, and doing more than that, creating jobs and saving the country's economy. host: united autoworkers will be holding a two-day conference here, in washington, and president obama speaks before that union today. go to c-span.org for coverage. host: jeff is a republican in michigan. how will you vote today? guest: -- caller: i will vote for mitt romney. the economy is far from strong. he seems to have the same idea on the bailouts that i do. that is where i am going. guest: the economy is improving. people are going back to work.

most importantly, people see a way to manage debt, to be able to stay in their homes. the president has also taken on student loans. that is the worst kind of debt. it robs people of getting the education they need to compete globally. finally, by taking the leadership to provide health insurance to over 1 million michigan residents that could go bankrupt because of high health care costs, that of leadership and political courage. that will help michigan residents and is why michigan will support president obama. host: kansas, good early morning to you. caller: i do not like to comment you made that "if you

think the right person is the right person to be an office, go for him." barack obama is not the right person to be in office. my mother came from cuba when she was 11 years old. she came from communism. that is what i see in president barack obama. i do not know how things are in michigan, but nobody is buying things. las vegas. i believe -- here in las vegas. i think you're taking president barack obama side -- obama's side. guest: he talked about communism. my assumption is he is referring to the role of government in america's job recovery. let me say this.

here is why i am a democrat and why i believe government has a role in stabilizing our economy, helping people. when i was in my early-20's, i lost everything that was important to me in life. my parents were dead. i lost my college scholarship. my income. i was on food stamps. i knew i was not going to make it in life. the one thing that provided me hope was an initiative created by an act of congress that provided me with a job and assigned me to help high school students that were skipping school. that gave me more than a paycheck. it gave me confidence in myself. yes, that was a government program. it helps save my life. of the government is is -- all the government is is us, coming

together. we are in an economic crisis. if we have lost our auto business, we would lose our manufacturing base, and our pride in ourselves as americans. the president would not allow that to happen. government is us, our money being used together to help each other. i completely? -- disagree with you. host: democratic line, and asheville, n.c., gary. caller: 3 points on the auto industry -- number 1, we have been misled, really. what gm has paid back, dave put back another taxpayer loan to pay back their loan. -- they took out another taxpayer loan to pay back their loan. to do all they have not paid

back their -- two, they have not paid back their bond holders. as far as the auto industry failing, gm and chrysler were the only ones failing. volvo and bmw, nonunion were doing just fine, and they are doing just fine. guest: gm and chrysler both paid off their loans. they needed the support to get stabilized. it was not just bankruptcy. in the president's leadership, he negotiated tough concessions on both side with the sides with management and labour. that was something which it both sides with management and labour. -- management and labour. that was something that was needed. host: what about bondholders?

guest: the car companies are just garden to make money. the merged out of bankruptcy. -- just starting to make money. the merged out of bankruptcy. host: the final point, nonunion companies were not in trouble while the union companies were in trouble. guest: there were changes that needed to be made. that is true. the president's leadership made those changes and includes those companies. you know what? it is not because of union wages. we have a strong middle class because of organized labor. i do not want people to forget that. we always want to take a whipping boy. it is not that. the only issue i have with labor is sometimes they did too good of the job. people forget how they got those great jobs and benefits -- wages and benefits. it was not on their own.

workers organized and lobbied and negotiated. host: chris is next in arizona. an independent there. caller: i want to put the ideological book on the shelf for both republicans and democrats, and i want you to address the reality of these numbers. a child that was born at the beginning of the obama administration owes $30,000 right now. after four years of barack obama, that person will 0 $40,000 to $50,000. if he is elected for eight years, and that eight-year-old will 0 $80,000. we have not cut anything except slow the increase of the federal debt. if president obama is reelected, we will have $20 trillion to 20

two dollars trillion in debt. come to the point, if you have a checking account. you have a mortgage to pay, you know as well as i do, that is called bankruptcy. neither republicans or democrats are ready to go ahead and step forward and really make choices. i'm talking about entitlement programs. we will hear you spin on this, but the reality is you have to cut those things, and if you do not, we are bankrupt. we will default. guest: you are correct. we head to manage federal money properly, -- have to manage federal money properly, but the reason we got into this debt was two wars we did not paid for, prescription drug payments we did not pay for. the president has helped reduce

costs get we are out of iraq. we are drawing down in afghanistan -- costs. we are out of iraq. we are drawing down in afghanistan. michigan is going to support obama because the real dent they are worried about -- that they are worried about is their personal -debt. the student loans they have had to have for decades. that is burdening them. that is the debt that the president decided to take on directly by helping people to stay in their homes, avoiding foreclosure, providing certainty on student loans, allowing borrowers to pay student loans based on their income, and demanding that congress keeps a cap on student loan interest

rates. the real debts that are crushing us of our -- are our credit cards and our student loans. that is why the economy is coming back. not only do we need to create jobs, we need to give americans more purchasing power. when you read these personal debt, they have more money to which it reduced personal debt, they have more money to the budget reduce personal debt, -- reduce personal debt, you have more money to start a business. host: you're on the air. caller: michigan used to have an open primary, and this morning i hear they close the primary. i am independent. they want me to choose a party.

host: we are seeing that it is an open primary. do you have any update on that, that it would be a closed primary? guest: i was not focused on that. i want people to vote for the person you think is the best person. host: kent, as far as we know it is an open primary. were you planning to vote? caller: they wanted to sign up for a party. i was going to avoid 4 rick santorum because i do not like him. i do not know what i'm -- going to vote for rick santorum because i do not like him. i am hoping rick santorum will win, and that will put more pressure on mitt romney. at least it will make the primary is less longer. host: ok. what do you think about that?

is that appropriate for michigan voters guest: this is a free country. you can choose to vote for who you want for for whatever purpose. vote for the person you want to get collected. that is the most straightforward way to get people collected. host: what you think about the rubble calling? guest: i think we would be better off if we did not deal with those tactics that really discourage people from voting, and focus on serving the public, your record, and your plan to help the american people. i've had to run against incumbents. i defeated incumbents and i did that by listening to people and working for them. host: ben, north carolina. good morning.

caller: you said dennis? this is dennis in greensboro. we had eight years of bullish. nobody had any problems. take obama. put a white face on him. people do not understand -- look at the anchor in their face. -- anchorage in their face. all they want to do is say what obama did not do. we have congress. congress put lost together. -- laws together. host: we have your point. is racism at play? guest: negativity is,

unfortunately. that turns people off from voting. many people say the president has been held to higher standards, but the president has a record to run on. he has taken bold leadership moves to take -- to actually create jobs. he has a great plan to help create more jobs. he has help american families, definitely michigan families. he understands the importance of investing in detroit and urban areas. not everything is fair in politics. we all get a chance to vote, participate, and choose the person we think is the best person. the president is a tough guy. i met him years ago when we were both in the state senate. he is not concerned about personal attacks. he wants to see this country provide opportunities to

everyone. he is doing that. he is totally committed to that. host: have you had a personal conversation with him since been elected to congress? guest: yes, i spoke with him on air force one and expressed the was concerned about the city of detroit's finances, and he is working with the mayor to provide technical assistance and no-how. detroit is key to michigan, and it is the symbol of the economic comeback of america. when people see detroit coming back, they know america is strong again. host: how did you get a ride on air force one? guest: the president came to michigan and i flew back to washington, d.c., with him, and i urge the present that the best way to rebuild the economy of

america is to rebuild detroit. host: his response? guest: he understood that. he knows. host: troy, mich.. you are next. caller: supposedly michigan does not qualify for the extended benefits, ok? i do not understand. the unemployment rate is at a certain level in order to qualify for this rate. people in michigan have dropped off of the unemployment roll. why would sander levin and all of these guys vote for this unemployment, and then we do not get anything? host: congressman? guest: the reason why michigan

will not get the full benefits is not because of what congress has done, but what the michigan legislature has done by reducing the amount of unemployment -- the state legislature reduced the amount of weeks that a person who is unemployed could receive benefits. that reduced federal benefits. they are connected. .'m not trying to be partisan the republican-controlled state legislature reduced unemployment benefits, and that, now, in turn has reduced the federal benefits that those two are unemployed can receive. that is important. -- those that are unemployed can receive. that is important. i understand the anxiety of not knowing how you will feed yourself and provide for your family, but the president is working on the best on the

employment policy, creating jobs, helping to train people for jobs currently available. that is how we get people on their feet. in the meantime, we have to be compassionate. we cannot allow people to be on the streets. if we have so many veterans that are homeless right now, we can now do this. we need -- we cannot do this. host: congressman hansen clarke, here is a tweet for you. obama bailed out failed car companies with bad management. the same management is running those companies. what changed? guest: labor and management made major concessions. the president's leadership, and that tough, decisive decisions he made helped restructure the auto industry. the fed would gm is doing.

they have earned record -- look at what gm is doing. they earned record profits, and i only see more jobs being created over time. host: a couple of stories this morning confirming the primary in michigan is an open primary. reed, a republican in washington. caller: i have a couple of quick comments. the congressman keeps railing on the auto industry and how the president saved the auto industry. the reality is any big brand like best buy or chevrolet, chrysler, they have been made for 100 years. you do not need the federal government to step in in an unconstitutional way, take the investors' money, and did it to

whoever they decide. this president is tyrannical in this attitude. i wish the democrats would get off this shtick on how the president say anything. guest: it did not work. many times, we need to pull money together to create jobs and save jobs for americans. that is what this is about. the president had the insight and the toughness to make this happen. host: we learn that speaker john boehner told his constituents that gas prices could be a huge issue in 2012. how concerned are you did it hurt your reelection and impact democrats taking back the house and the senate?

guest: i am not concerned. these oil speculators are driving up the price of oil, and increasing volatility. demand in china and india is keeping those prices up. the president understands that we have to responsibly reduce our reliance on foreign oil. the president has increased oil and gas production in the u.s., and we also have to look at ways to be more energy-efficient. host: on the issue of increasing oil and gas production, was he wrong on the keystone pipeline, in the lane that? guest: he wanted to -- to delay that? guest: he wanted to make sure that it did not hurt our water quality. i think it is totally proper.

host: on gas prices, your colleague, congressman ed markey, said that the president should tap strategic oil reserves in this country. should you -- do you agree? guest: that could be away. fundamentally, oil speculate -- spec emulators -- speculators are driving these prices up. it is speculation that is driving all of the. if anything, we need more safeguards against that type of rapid speculation that is driving oil prices up, but over time, they will go up because of demand. we have to look at other ways of providing transportation fuel other than petroleum. we have to diversify our energy sector. host: james disagrees on twitter. he says the war on energy is not going unnoticed by americans.

the election will be another shellacking. host: this is what -- guest: this is what you have to understand. in michigan, we have enormous great lake resources. we have to preserve our national -- natural resources as we diversified energy resources as well. that is what the president is doing. he is striking the right balance, waning us from our dependence on foreign oil, making sure our resources and our house is protected. as a leader, he has to look at this in a balanced perspective. i fight for detroit, and the president is fighting for all of us in america. host: winston, lansing, michigan. good morning. are you going to vote in this open primary? caller: i'm thinking about voting in this open primary, but

i have been reading the law, and even though it says open primary, if we have to declare what party we wish to belong to. i am still weighing that. host: sure. if you do decide to vote, who will you vote for and why? caller: i will probably vote for rick santorum because he is persistent in saying he would not vote for a loan. even though i am against rick santorum, and least he is telling the truth. mitt romney is not telling the truth. he claims he is the son of michigan, but when we need him most t-bills on us. he -- he bales on us. president bush initiated the loan policy.

president barack obama inherited that. he also received two wars. i would also like to correct the gentleman about how the american autoworkers and companies got into this situation. we are not on an even playing field as far as trade. we cannot send our cars to japan and/or korea, yet there is legislation on the republican side that want to reduce the amount of tariffs on their vehicles and flood our markets. host: a couple -- all right. caller: a couple more points. do you realize that gm was the only auto company supporting

after 9/11? let me make one other point. host: i am running out of time. i want to get more phone calls in, so i will have the congressman respond to your trade argument. guest: he is right. our trade policies have been missed balance. these agreements, on balance, have allowed the foreign companies to be able to sell more of their products in the u.s. than we have been able to sell overseas. that is not fair. that is one reason that taxpayers helped to support our industry when we needed it. we have a great market in the u.s. we will be able to sell cars to our own people. we have to make sure people are paid a fair wage. that is how the auto industry grew. the american worker is being paid a wage that they can now

afford to purchase a car with. that is the american way, people choosing the products they choose. that is what the president is supporting. host: hansen clarke purpose as the 13th district of detroit. peter, you are next, in new york. caller: i find you disingenuous. you do not talk about how the unions are tied to president obama. in 2008, the unions gave more money to president obama then the american people. on top of that, you do not talk about the fact that the car companies bailed out by the president are not paying federal taxes for the next few years. i can discuss a bunch of other subjects, but i would like to hear you on those.

guest: number one, it is so vital that we support american manufacturing. that is what made this country strong, and manufacturing creates more jobs than just the manufacturing sector. it creates service jobs. supporting manufacturing is probably the most important policy measure that we could implement to create jobs and a future for americans. also, i'm not here to be partisan. we have republicans in michigan that understand the value of supporting metric -- metro detroit, and understand the importance of having an effective and urban policy, but we have to quit -- quick dashing the american worker. the bill to the -- quit bashing the american worker. they have made these products. they need a fair deal.

host: don is a democrat. caller: good morning. there has been confusion about the voting in michigan. we are an open primary, but when you vote, you have to choose one of ballots. you cannot vote for democrats and republicans. if you are independent, you stay independent, but you take a ballot. i am going to vote on the republican ballot. i'm still going to be a democrat. host: why is that? caller: rick santorum, we are going to eat him alive this fall. [laughter] host: you are going to undermine rick -- mitt romney?

you think that is appropriate? caller: it is america. caller: i would like to ask you a question if i could. people talk about how gm was bailed out. if a bankruptcy is in bankruptcy, and do you think contracts are binding? as someone signs a contract, the government can step in and say we are not want to honor that anymore? when someone signs a contract, the think it should be valid? do you not think gm 3 normal bankruptcy would have done the same thing which gm threw a normal bankruptcy -- gm through a normal bankruptcy would have done the same thing? guest: probably not. the loans helped to provide the

auto companies with the capital they need to restructure and ultimately create the jobs and profits they are enjoying right now and workers are in joining. host: david, missouri. an independent there. caller: i live in a rural area. i am disabled. i can not afford to buy the new cars anyway. when you are disabled the do not make that kind of money. every time we seem to start going in an upward direction, and gas prices keen because it seems to shoot up again. i keep hearing -- prices go up again. i keep hearing about manipulators. why can we not do anything on about that? also, alternative fuel -- they are using ethanol, and then we

cannot afford to buy corn. host: congressman? guest: we have to diversify our energy supply, and that is what the president is talking about, natural gas, solar, and biofuel -- we have to look the range of resources that are available yes, i understand that, -- available. yes, i understand that, and that is why i think the president's energy policy is the appropriate one. host: thank you for talking to our viewers. guest: you are welcome, and in michigan, it is about providing families with the financial security they need, and the chance they will go to school. the president is working on driving down to wish and rates. that will make it more -- that will make it easier for people

to get the jobs they want. host: next we will turn our attention to the arizona primary with congressman jeff flake. >> more on the robo-calls urging voting for rick santorum. mitt romney says the calls from the campaign are outrageous, disgusting, and it terrible, dirty trick, and went on to accuse the former senator paul -- of teaming up with barack obama to derail his campaign. president obama is expected to unveil a new enforcement agency to challenge what the white house calls on fair international trade practices. he is expected to sign an

executive order to create the office but will coordinate all of the enforcement activity of the government, and the administration says offenders include china. a fall in oil prices today, and a cash boost for the european central bank is lifting the euro and overseas markets, and having a positive effect on wall street futures. ahead of the opening bell, and our futures are up 42 points. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> there are millions of decent americans willing to sacrifice for change, but they want to do it without being threatened and they want to do it peacefully. they are the non-violent majority who are for change without violence. these are the people whose voice i want to be. >> we look back at 14 men who

ran for the office and lost. go to our web site to see video of the contenders to have a lasting impact on american politics. >> can you remember the depression, when times were really hard and you left the doors unlocked? now we have the most violent society in the industrialized world. i cannot live with that. can you live with that? >> of louisiana governor bobby jindal is scheduled to reveal his proposal for balancing the state budget for the next fiscal year, a budget $900 billion in the red. in shreveport, it is mostly cloudy, and 38 degrees. you are listening to news radio 710 keel. >> this weekend, booktv and

american history tv exports shreveport, louisiana. saturday, author gary joiner on the union army's failure in louisiana. then, a look at the over 20,000 books of the john smith novell collection, and then a walking tour of tree fort -- shreveport with neil johnson. sunday, at 5:00 p.m. eastern, from barksdale air force base, of look at the base's role in -- in 9/11. and, from the pioneer heritage center, medical treatment during the civil war. shreveport, louisiana, this weekend on c-span2 and 3.

>> "washington journal continues. host: arizona congressman jeff flake joins us. you have endorsed romney. what happens if the romney campaign does not win in michigan tonight? guest: people have said he has to win michigan. i do not think he has to. i think he will, but i do not think he has to. the with the santorum campaign has gone, i think there is a recognition more than ever that mitt romney is our best shot to win. first and foremost is a great candidate, but some people are just concerned about electability as well. host: why is it not a must-win? guest: you have super tuesday that carries a boatload of states, and that is where organization really matters, and

money, and message -- i think romney has got it. i think he will get a boost out of arizona. i think it will be a bigger margin than expected. he does not have to win michigan, but i think he will. host: any thoughts on the democratic voters crossing over and voting for rick santorum and rick santorum appealing to some of these voters? guest: i think that has the potential to backfire when people realize the democrats want so much to have rick santorum, i think that makes republicans think that romney is our guy. i think over time that proves the point the romney campaign has been making, he is best equipped to take on the president in november. host: we are talking to republican congressman from arizona jeff flake. we want to hear from you. give us a call on the republican

line. host: we set up a line for arizona residents. host: let's turn to the arizona primary. this is "the washington post." what does mitt romney need to win by to have a good showing tonight? guest: i think he will have a double digit win, and anything over 10 points is a big win. the run the campaign worked the early ballots hard, and i think they're leading big on election day as well. i think they will have what they need for a big win. host: the political geography map from "the washington post" notes that a second place finish

for rick santorum would not translate into delegates. there was some polling that had the arizona race pretty tight, within the margin of error, according to a poll. what tipped it for romney? was it the debate? chief of the debate was big, but prior to the dip -- guest: off the debate was big, but prior to the debate, it was tipping in romney's favor. romney is the only one left standing in the end. there has been a lot of talk about romney not, not -- connecting with republican voters, and that spells trouble in the end. i did not think that is the case. i think republicans will rally around our candidate, whoever it is, and effected romney has resisted the urge to use incendiary language, to use

words or phrases, or whatever else that would likely bump him up 10, 15 points in some races. i think he realizes he has a general to win, and this is a marathon. it might serve a purpose in one primary if you use language that might appeal to conservatives more broadly, but it is not worth it for the general. host: numbers show that mitt romney's unfavorable ratings have reached as high as 47%. the device for romney at this point in the campaign? -- any advice for romney at this point in the campaign? guest: when republicans are going at each other, you will see that. i have one piece of advice. he seems to have some gaffs in terms of his wealth.

like chris christie said, i would say embraced. i am rich. that is a good thing. a lot of presidents have been wealthy. we have not held it against them. let's get beyond that. host: you are not worried that will drive people away? guest: you can not exactly deny it. he is a rich guy. the more you are trying to play a role you are more uncomfortable with, the more difficult it is. that is just a minor, minor thing. i think he is running good race. with regard to wealth, say, yes, i am, i have been fortunate. host: mitt romney hit rick santorum yesterday for not focusing enough on the economy. do you think we need to turn away from social issues? guest: i did not think it is "turned away" but it is something we need to focus on.

you have to emphasize in the year like this, the economy. that is where it is said. if we want independents to cross over and vote for republicans, we need to be focused on the economy. host: social issues came up in the course of this arizona primary. stepromney's co-chair down after a former boyfriend accused him of threatening to deport him if he came out about their relationship. can you talk about the issue of social issues in arizona? guest: i did not think it was a social issue. it was pretty well known that he was gay.

i think we all knew that. that was not an issue. the other allegations were the issue. whether you were gay or straight, that would have doomed any candidate. host: does this hurt romney? guest: no parents around the campaign deal with it quickly. he stepped -- no. the brown campaign dealt with it quickly -- the romney campaign dealt with it quickly. host: independent line, vermont. caller: i have a question for -- for you. i was in your great state last week, and i for -- i have been watching you for a number years

and i know the you voted for the bridge to nowhere long before sarah palin came on the scene, and i have been watching you run for president because i think they're more credibility than most republicans. i would also like to see dick lugar run, too. guest: i think what you meant as i was against the bridge to nowhere. that is one thing i have been concerned about, earmarking -- it has been a passion of mine to get rid of the process. i'm glad to see the moratorium. is good for both parties and congress. as far as me riding, i am lucky to be where i am, let's face it. -- running, i am lucky to be where i am, let's face it. i'm running for senate. arizona has been a state for 100 years.

we had our birthday on valentine's day. there have only been 10 u.s. senators from arizona in 100 years. these senate seats, along with the frequency of haley's comet. we've had a lot of great representatives in the senate including john kyl, john mccain, barry goldwater, and they have all served distinguished careers. host: you are well known in congress to be against earmarks. i want to get a response to an article in "the los angeles times."

host: how do you square that with the guy you are supporting? guest: every state has a lobbying effort in washington, whether it is through congressional representatives or a regular office setup by the government, private industry, or whatever else. the question is, are you looking for earmarks, which by definition circumvent the normal process for doling out federal funds, or are you looking, like arizona, for a greater share, a more appropriate share of transportation funds? we are a donor state. we give a lot more in the gas tax then we get back, but arizona is getting -- arizona seeking to get a greater share

is not arizona seeking to get earmarks. up

best president, but this is my problem with the republican party as i see it right now you have a tendency to overreach. i'm trying to understand, i agree with the church being protected by the constitution, but at what point, what they have the right to do, when does that intrude on the rights of everyone else? i think you have those in the house you're going to pass about this also.

when it comes to jobs, when obama took office, it was a horrible situation. democrats had some part to do with this, but if you look at the numbers, seven under 50,000 jobs were lost -- seven and 50,000 jobs were lost. -- 750,000 jobs were lost. we are now increasing and 3 million. the press and has not performed as well as -- president has not performed as well as i wanted to perform, but you guys have not performed as well either. guest: you make a great point. we were heading toward this before the president took the wheel. i think he stepped down the accelerator, but make no mistake, when republicans

controlled the white house and both chambers of congress from 2000 through 2006, republicans behaved badly. we have no child left behind. i think that was overreach by the federal government into what has been a state and local issue. then we have the prescription drug benefit, which was an awful thing. we have unfunded liabilities in the trillions because of that, and that was done by republicans. then we have bloated farm bills that went well beyond where we should have gone with corporate subsidies. these things were republicans. the challenge we face now as republicans is to say we will be better than the democrats, and we will be better than we were in 2000, 2006. it is a steep hill, but i think we can do it. we have new leadership in place. we have a few people running for the white house that i think will go in the right direction.

you are exactly right. both parties have tended to over-reach, and i think the democrats certainly did two thousand eight -- 2008 to 2010. host: there is a story yesterday in "the washington post" talking about mormon voters wary of too much love for romney. the percentage of the church discourages political involvement, but mormon voters -- de church discourages political involvement. you are mormon. can you talk about the role of mormon voters? guest: mormons are told to support the candidate that they believe in. we are not told which candidates to vote for at all. when you look abroad sector --

when you look at the broad sector of mormons in congress, harry reid is a mormon. i do not share his politics, but i share his fate. if mitt romney is not elected, it will not be because he is mormon, and i think that is a good thing. that is what this country stands for, let every religion compete, but not in a way that goes against the separation of church and state that this country is built on. host: talking with arizona congressman jeff flake, and we have a line for arizona voters. steven zell, mich., michael on the republican line. caller: did morning.

are you concerned about the voting in arizona as we are in michigan with the uaw telling members to vote for santorum today, so they could edge out romney? when i went to vote this morning, that is all i heard, we are going to vote for santorum so we can get from the defeated in michigan i wonder if you are -- michigan. i wonder if you are concerned about that. i hate the unions anyway, and i think it is a dirty trick the shows with the unions are all about. host: in arizona we -- guest: in arizona we have a closed primary. you have to be a republican to vote in a republican primary. with regard to michigan, i think tactics like that typically the a meager 9 -- typically

backfire. sometimes they work. if romney were to lose michigan, i do not think it is over, and partly it is because of tactics like this. they tend to backfire. if mitt romney survives michigan by winning it, or goes on to super tuesday, i think people will recognize he is the best candidate. host: if the primary those on and on, are you concerned about your senate race this year, running to replace john kyl? guest: i think those of us running, most of us, and you can see that in endorsements for mitt romney by members of congress, that we fare best if he is at the top of the ticket. i think we will fare well anyway. in terms of my own race, i did not think it matters. people are focused on arizona

issues and issues we have been talking about for a long time. host: are you surprised that president obama has taken an interest in your senate race, helping to recruit a former u.s. surgeon general under george w. bush? guest: they think they can turn arizona below. come and try, i say. i think it will be difficult for arizona to embrace the president's policies. our country has struggled for many reasons, and one of them is the uncertainty on tax policies, and the tremendous debt we are dragging along. more than anything else, the imposition of regulations are

stifling this economy. anyone who wants to ride the president's coattails would have to explain their support for the president's policies. obama-care as >> you're not the only republican in that race. as a primary in august with five republicans declared, eight democrats. someone raising numbers through the end of december show congressman jeff flake raising $3 million for your campaign. republican running against you, a real-estate investor, cardon, raised $1.8 million, much of that from his own bank account. and richard carmona, a prominent democrat in the race, raised $570,000. and biven raised about $700,000.-- bivens. are you worried about going

through your money in a primary against a man with such deep pockets? >> bivens has raised more money overall than richard carmona. it will be a spirited primary. i have always disliked arizona's late primary, but i may learn to like it now as long as democrats are competing like this. there are several other republicans in the race. cardon at 7%. hackbar at 5% and he has not spent anything. it's a good base on the republican side and the democratic side. we will keep going. host: back to the phones. rochester, michigan. christina is on our independent line. good morning. >> good morning. thank you for c-span. i watched a lot of c-span. i watched the hearings and it's

where i get my real information. my brother lives in arizona so i have been there are very often. thanks for letting me speak. i've been trying to call a long time, if so please let me say everything. i watched senator mccain in 2003. you talk about "no child left behind", but senator mccain did vote against the tax cuts because he said never in the history of this country could we go toward and we were in two of them, cut taxes. and an analogy i have for the financial problems that we have, if you have a child hit by a drunk driver and now you are yelling at the doctors that cannot make your child walk, -- who is really at fault? for all those years, the republicans or the drunk drivers.

second, on the oil and gas is tryingll o'reilly to let people know that our prices are going up because oil and gas produced in this country is being exported. so we have to understand our american oil does not belong to us. it goes on a worldwide market to the highest bidder. the more we lose -- host: are you going out to vote today in the republican primary? >> i am. i still have not decided, because my problem is, either mr. romney or mr. santorum, will either of them care about real people? i am catholic, so i should be backing santorum, because he is catholic. now i'm starting to have a lot of problems with what the

catholic church believes and turning around altars. they should get into the 21st century and big about birth control. god cannot see all those babies starving in third-world countries, maybe we should not be birthing so many babies. guest: i'm not sure where to start. with regard to american energy, we need to produce more of it. we need to be more energy independent and that starts with allowing easier access to research and explore natural gas resources in particular. lot of that is located on federal land. it would be much easier than right now. the offshore drilling as well. we have a moratorium there that we have to get beyond. we have to be more energy independence and we have resources that we are to exploit.

host: lead skoda scottsdale, arizona, mike is on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. actually it is tony. i'm calling from scottsdale. i worked in gilbert, arizona and i work for mormon company. the mormon people have positive and negative about mitt romney. they are very evenhanded about their support and criticism of mitt romney. and my other point, , congressman, no matter what position you attain, please do what you can to find ways to decrease the size of our federal government and get spending under control, because it is the cancer that will kill our country unless we can get it under control. guest: thank you, tony. you said not all mormons support

mitt romney and that's true. harry reid is mormon, like i said. we have a wide variety of public servants who are mormon. it does not necessarily follow that you vote for mitt romney if you are mormon. second, in terms of what faces the country, but challenges posed by our fiscal situation, $16 trillion in debt, adding 1.4 trillion to that every year, we cannot go on. i worry that congress tends to make the decisions we have to make only when we are right at the fiscal cliff staring into the abyss. i don't think we know where that next cliff is. we need to get going right now and cuts spending on the discretionary side and on the mandatory side. what bothers me is congress always seems to say all right we will get sobriety, but not yet.

and we take all the spending cuts into via out years instead of now. you can always just washington by how willing we are as a congress to cut spending now. that's why congress has not been willing to cut spending thus far. host: there's been a lot of back-and-forth over a big spending bill, the transportation bill. can you give us an update on where that is and are there going to be cuts in transportation? guest: it's not coming to the floor now, partly because republicans in parts are not uneasy about spending. spending money that we don't have, simply borrowing. it's not the right way to go. we should not be going in that direction. transportation bill is on hold until we can pare back spending. that's what we should do. host: on hold until then?

guest: i don't know. it could be weeks. we may not get to it this year and will continue with the old authorization. we have been dipping into the general revenue to fund transportation projects or while. that is not where we ought to go. host: pennsylvania, christine is on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a question. in pennsylvania, a lot of the natural shale gas is being shipped to europe, between 12,000 and 13,000 versus 3000 in pennsylvania. yesterday i heard on free-speech tv that in the financial times there is a canadian company where the ipo went public on the japanese stock market, clear to the top, almost totally bought

by chinese companies. that canadian company owns the ground where the keystone xl pipeline will be draining the oil down through this country. this country number-one manufactured export is gasoline. it is refined oil. that is what we sell. that's the number-one thing. so this chinese company will own this oil, run it down to this country, causing tariffs -- causing terrorist targets, causing pollution in the water, causing cancer around the refineries and using them to be far worse than it is now. when we already have refineries in the midwest, which is why their gasoline is cheaper. guest: i don't know where to start for this one either. this is new information for me. i do think that the keystone

pipeline ought to be approved. i think it will allow us to access canadian oil. it is a more stable supply and a friendlier neighbor than we are experiencing with a lot of countries in the middle east. i think it's a good thing. we can do it in an environmentally safe way. i don't share the concerns of christina has. host: and your thoughts on keystone moving ahead with some of the u.s. pipeline right now. we heard the announcement yesterday. guest: however we can move ahead, we should move ahead. the president will be forced politically to speed up the effort of approval in terms of what we need to get the pipeline all the way through. host: you think the pipeline will happen. guest: >> i do. over the next couple months i think this president will send some signal that is ready to move ahead. but whether or not it happens under this president of the next one, i think it's going to

happen. host: jeff is on the republican line, orlando, florida. caller: i have a couple points to make. number one, if mr. santorum is elected, my issue is that the democrats along with the media will focus on everything except the specific issues in which this country is faced with today because they will find everything to talk about which is more of a diversion. that is what political operatives do. the second thing with mr. romney, it would be really nice if mr. romney would. a -- would adopt a real serious tax reform policy. the notion of cutting the current system by 20% could be done, but it's not really dealing with the crux of the issue, which is our tax code. so you would have the same structure that is in place. mr. represented, if you could get back to romney's campaign and tell him he needs to move

forward with something that is extremely comprehensive and deal directly with this. the other thing, please stop allowing individuals to call in to talk about the bailout of chrysler and gm without pointing to what ford did. ford did not take government money and restructured everything. that's what bankruptcy is about. i do agree with romney that they should have gone through with bankruptcy? and then in the and if they needed help, then perhaps help them. guest: thank you. regarding the automobile bailout, i agree. had they been allowed to go through structured bankruptcy, we would have had much the same result. if they would have pared down their expenses and been on top once again. this notion that our companies in detroit are competing only because of the president making the proposal to bail them out, i

don't think it's accurate. that's what bankruptcy is about. that's what the system does. that is what the markets do. when companies fail or companies run out of money, they declare bankruptcy and they restructure, and then they move on. but to have the government move in on a whim makes it easy for chronic capitalism to happen. it is not this country ought to go. host: the caller asked about governor romney, bringing the concerns back to him. guest: i was with him in arizona and a couple of the other states as well. we have had discussions. i think that his latest economic plan has some great elements. to lower overall rates by 20% would be pretty good. i would like to see a more radical overhaul that would bring the rates down further and broaden the base even more. in that way you could have more

economic growth than we are experiencing now. you could have allocation of resources, a lot of which goes toward compliance with a very complicated tax code, deployed in other ways. i would favor a stronger move with regard to taxes. i frankly think that this plan by governor romney is pretty good. host: we have an e-mail question and comment from vermont. guest: i know that the romney campaign is very careful to comply with laws and does not coordinate with those they cannot cordon 8 with. every candidate in this day and age is careful to do that, i think. i just disagree.

i think he is complying with the law. host: do you think super pacs have been a good thing overall? guest: i think that the court got it right. this was the united case where they said that being able to support candidates and supports causes is part of a political speech. sometimes it is a little uncomfortable to have super pacs out there. there may be some in my race. who knows? it's all an irving as a candidate to know that's out there. having said that, i look at the alternative and i don't like that either. so you go with what you have. -- it is a little unnerving as a candidate to know that's out there. host: now to a caller. caller: i am a little nervous. i'm going to vote for romney because he's a businessman.

i really think our country need somebody who can get business and manufacturing pushed and know how to do it. i think he will listen to the military. i am very concerned this president is not listening to his military and the world is in a real mess. as far as the oil goes, i think if we opened up some of the government plans to drill on, the government would have a little more control of how much was kept in this country. i have a lot of common sense and i just think this president -- i have grandchildren with college educations that cannot find a job. i am an old lady and i have never, ever seen where someone

could graduate with a 4.0 and not be successful. host: thank you, darlene. guest: thank you. she makes the point about mitt romney being a businessman. i think it's great. i don't think it's necessary to have a businessman. i think it's necessary to have someone who understands the car role and function of the federal government. ronnie's business background gives him great insight as to what that is and how that impacts the ability of our economy to flourish. understands that the proper role of the federal government is not to take control of the economy. it is to have a conducive tax and regulatory environment. when the president released his budget this year he said that the budget will construct an economy that can last. that kind of language says to me that somebody who believes the federal government should play a more central role in planning

the economy than is healthy. i think mitt romney understands that the best thing the government can do is to set a proper tax and regulatory environment and then move out of the way to make that possible. to make sure contracts aren't forced but not to move in and bail out whenever it's convenient. so i take the point that darlene makes and i think it's a good one. host: we were talking about the oil pipeline. jim wright's on twitter -- -- writes on twitter -- let's go to the atlanta, georgia. marjorie is on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? guest: good to talk to you. caller: i want to thank you for endorsing mitt romney, flake.entative for i supported him in 2008.

he has my vote on super tuesday. i also had a comment. we had a former congressman who called into a show on fox news on the weekend. he is a new gingrich supporter. he made reference to the only reason romney was going to win arizona was because of the lds community. i did not appreciate that. i am a catholic formerly and a presbyterian. about that was a low blow. guest: i think it is as well. arizona is only about 7% mormon. mormons tend to be active politically in both parties, but that -- certainly he would have to do better than just get the mormon vote to win arizona. his appeal is far broader than

that. i think you'll see it today in arizona and michigan. host: we want to ask about race and taking shape in your former colleague's gabrielle giffords' seat. four republicans filed for that seat. and a democrat, ron barber, a former aide of gabrielle giffords ash well giffordse said in an interview last week that lawmakers from both parties had reached out to him when he decided to run, including representative jeff flake. are you supporting him in that race? guest:no. is a friend of mine and i think that he's a good man. there are a lot of good republicans running as well. i will support the republican candidate. the situation is a very difficult one. we all wish that gabby giffords could have finished and run again.

miss her. host: talk about the moment when you of the for the congress holding her hand. guest: it was a tremendous moment for all of us. i have never seen anybody -- i've never seen anybody in heartfeltet and heartfe ovation from everybody in congress that day and the following day when she resigned. we all the the world of terror in arizona and hopes she will be able to recover even further and rejoin us. host: congressman jeff flake running for u.s. senate this week. thanks for joining us. up next, a discussion of regulat--regulation of school vending machines. >> more presidential candidate mitt romney on the race for the republican nomination. speaking earlier on fox news channel, he says, "senator

santorum has shown himself to be an economic lightweight and i don't think people want to nominate an economic lightweight to go against the president, who also is an economic lightweight. my experience in private business makes me the best candidate to deal with the nation's economy." and newt gingrich react to centaur's recent criticism on a speech on religion by john kennedy. his remarks on fox news, the former speaker says it was a remarkable speech, that john kennedy was reassuring voters that he would not obey any foreign religious leader. mr. gingrich says john kennedy was saying that his first duty as president would be to do the job of president. he said that he thinks that's correct. but he says that he does share santorum's position on president obama and that is, obama's administration is "anti- religious." a new poll suggests that president obama is gaining in popularity among women voters.

the associated press poll says president obama's approval rating con handling the economy and employment have risen by 10 percentage points since december among women. and more on the economy, the commerce department reports of a drop in business spending on machinery and equipment helped push orders, long-lasting manufactured goods down in january by the largest amount entry years. orders for durable goods, products expected to last at least three years, fell by 4% last month. at is the largest in a long time call. streets already reacting to the news that of the opening bell. dow jones futures are up just seven points. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> this particular telephone only rings in a serious crisis. keep it in the hands of a man who has proven himself responsible. vote for president johnson on november 3. bush and dukakis on crime, bush supports the death penalty for

murderers. dukakis not only supports the death penalty, he allowed first- degree murderers to have weekend passes from prison. one of them was willie horton. >> the accusations that john carey made against veterans who served in vietnam was devastating. >> randomly shot at civilians. >> we can all point to an outrageous commercial or two or three or four, but on average negative commercials are more likely to be factually correct and negative commercials are more likely to talk about issues. >> will 2012 cooldown as the most negative campaign cycle industry? a new america foundation discussed a look at the current and past political campaigns and their impact on american culture. once this and past panels on campaign ads online at the c- span video library. search, watch, clip, and share. it's watch you want, when you want. >> "washington journal" continues.

>host: bloomberg news? safety reporter stephanie armour joins me to talk about a federal regulation of school vending machines. what new rules will start governing what kids snack on in schools? guest: the usda is expected in the spring to come out with new guidelines. initially it will be a proposal. what they will do is that nutrition guidelines for food that is sold in school during the school day. if this will include things like what is sold in vending machines, at fund-raisers that may be done during the school day, and a la carte items that children may buy the during the school day separate from the school lunch. for example, they may sell domino's pizza or french fries and that is separate. they will set nutrition standards for all those items, which has never been done. host: they call this competitive foods. guest: because they compete with the standard school lunch or breakfast. host: we are coming off a glass

proposing new rules governing school lunches -- coming off of last month's new rules governing school lunches. guest: at a cost of $3.2 billion over five years, which is significantly lower than initially what it was going to be. loring sodium levels, setting maximum calorie amounts for each group, doing a lot of things in terms of a lot more fruits and vegetables and making sure breads will mostly be whole grains. except some pretty broad first- time nutrition standards for what kids will be getting. the first big change in 15 years. host: the first time in 15 years. we have a few of the rules they laid out in the final ruling that went through, talk about increased fruits and vegetables every day. the increasing whole-brain food options. only fat-free or low-fat milk.

limited calories based on age. and few other things. we want to talk about the congressional lobbying effort that went into the school lunch meals standard. it's not the same standard that they started with at the beginning of this process. what changed? guest: a couple things. on a lobbying front, the two areas that became contentious world what we referred to as the pizza issue and the french fry issue. there was an effort in the initial proposal if to say they had to put more tomato paste on a pizza from about an eighth of a fromto about half. if you put 1/2 cup of tomato sauce on a pizza it becomes inaudible. it would have not allowed pizza, basically. conagra did not want to see this happen and ultimately congress said you have to keep the same tomato paste requirement. so the argument of pizza still

qualifying as a vegetable with a lower amount of tomato paste. and they were looking at limits on starchy vegetables. all the bill, congress and you cannot make that change. so they will not limit the amount of apotato-type products. host: who was leading this lobby? that's big-time money on whether you use an eighth of a cup of tomato paste 1/2 cup on millions of meals served every day. guest: >> kanagawa is the maker of tomato paste and swann's has 70% of the pizza market for the schools. and the association of frozen foods were very vocal lin-sane did not want to see the changes. host: stephanie armour is the to save the reporter with bloomberg news. we want to get your thoughts on this segment about the new rules being proposed for vending machines for the ones that came out in january for school

lunches in general. give us a ring on the republican line or the democratic line or the independent line. if you are outside the u.s., 202-628-0184. and there's a lively discussion going on, on twitter, also. if there is a commentary in today's washington times that talks about the food issue. there's been concern about the standards being part of a government making too many rules to govern our children. a washington times correspondent and president obama's cousin milton woods writes in his column today --

i want to get your thoughts on that debate that's going on out there. guest: this has really touched off some concerns about how far is the government going in terms of regulating what kids can eat at school. some of those issues were anomalies. issue that happened in north carolina where some children, i believe they were four years old, a teacher looked at their lunch and said this is not balanced. instead of giving them milk, the city need to go have a school meal. in hindsight, the administrators of the school said the teacher should not have taken that action.

i believe what the usda is trying to do with the new regulations is not to create a state where teachers will set up cameras. they are saying these are nutrition standards to be sad because we have suc an obesity sta -- such an obesity epidemic going on with our children and has an enormous medical costs. that's where this is coming from. some of the issues that have happened, like in north carolina, were not necessarily based on rules coming out but perhaps overzealous educators that has caused the administrators to apologize for what happened. host: a question from joe on twitter -- guest: actually, for quite some time the usda has been able to set guidelines when it comes to the meals better served, because they provide the reimbursable meals. these are low-cost meals to about 32 million children in our

schools. the healthy, hunger free kids act passed in 2010 was passed by congress to say let's put some new nutrition standards, let's update the standards. that's where much of the recent activity has started. the at also includes snacks sold on school campuses during the school day, which michelle obama largely lobbied for as well. host: carroll is on the independent line from philadelphia, pennsylvania. good morning. are you there? caller: i am here. i have a few questions. my first question, would this apply to all schools or just government-run schools, meaning private/parochial? and, there are overweight children. we don't have overweight people but we have underweight problems. whole milk is very important to how teenagers and adolescents to

keep their ideal weight and they have a problem if you reduce the fat in their milk and you could also have a problem if you reduce the fat in their food. it causes an anorexic condition. needse these children's going to be addressed? had a problem with that with my own child. guest: i believe that the the new guidelines that came out in january that will go into effect in 2012, those rules say that it has to be nonfat or low-fat milk. nonfat its flavored, such as chocolate milk. that's something they have decided based on usda dietary guidelines. and i think that there are some certain exceptions made for children who have specific nutritional needs. for example, i know there are non-meat alternatives that have been approved for the first time. so there are some caveat that are carved out. for example, children who don't

drink milk. these are the guidelines they came up with based on what the usda nutritional standards most recent updated ones from 2010 were. host: let's go to milton on our republican line -- i'm sorry, we lost him. let's go to john on the democratic line from new york. caller: good morning. the first thing that we have to do is you have to get government out of the lunches. this is ridiculous. when i started school if i did not carry a lunch in a paper bag i did not eat. plain and simple. if they are going to serve meals, mature the meals they serve are nutritious. the end of story. you don't need candy machines and a soda machines in schools. if the kid brings that in his own lunch, that's his prerogative. host: jon from new york. guest: that's a very good point. the school lunch and breakfast program goes back to the second world war.

there were seeing that many of the individuals who were lacking. they were under way. they became -- it became a national security issue. this does affect public schools as well as non-profit private schools. i think that your point about the vending machines and the other items that are sold in the schools, there has been some debate on that in terms of should that even be allowed. that is not something that the government is getting involved in a this time, but there have been concerns that it sets up a two-tiered system that those children who may be better off financially can afford some of these items whereas the children who cannot are relegated specifically to the school- provided meals. host: a few stati t centers for disease control that we have for you on obesity and children. 12.5 million children and adolescents are considered obese.

tj on twitter response that food is not a problem -- we will go back to the phones. rcih is on the independent line from california -- rich. caller: would be good if schools provided written nutritional information for the meals they serve each week? i see the starbucks does this with calories for all of their drinks and all of their food. and putting the focus on sodium. and maybe brown bag lunch information for students. guest: that's a very good question. myself as a parent with two kids in schools would love to have a bit more information about what is in each itemtion provided at our school.

the guidelines do setbacks on calorie amounts for age groups. but it's a fair point that there should be more of an onus on schools perhaps to provide confirmation as well as a very good point you raised about bag lunch. what has been found is often children who brenda on lunch, and despite parents best intentions, many of those lunches are lacking in nutrition that children need, which is one of the reasons congress decided they wanted to make sure children was getting was nutritious and would meet those needs. host: we are chatting with stephanie armour of bloomberg news. she has been with bloomberg since 2010. before that she spent over a decade with "usa today," covering -- guest: labor and health issues. it's very interesting. when we talk about some of the

correlations, one of the implications with the new school meal standards is that this is contra costa schools when it comes to the labor front. they are going to have to invest in training their dietary in terms of how to make more these nutritious meals and how to purchase them in a way that is going to be cost-effective. that's a big bulk of the report $2 billion cost over five years. host: our comments from someone who names himself as a c-span democrat -- that was on twitter. now to robert on our republican line from fort worth, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. my question is what does: tap to do with vending machines? guest: good question, robert. basically, this is two separate elements that have both come out from the usda. if the other one, the vending machine issue, has yet to come

out. under the act, the usda had standards set for school lunch and breakfast but also relief for the first time set nutrition guidelines for food items that are sold during the school day. you probably be surprised to find out how much food is sold in school during the school day, whether it be a fund-raiser if, a pta's fund-raiser, whether it is vending machines near the gymnasium that have chips or lines where students go and buy specific extra items. that brings in revenue for the schools. for some schools as much as $130,000 according to a study. there's really been a proliferation of food items that are sold in addition to the . federal school lunch the host: can schools afford to lose this money that is coming into the vending machines? and our kids going to buy healthy options if they are put in the vending machines to replace them? guest: that's a good point and

it's a big concern of school administrators that i spoke with the national association of school boards. they are seeing they have the additional costs that will come to make sure their meals are more nutritious, yet there is a little concerned that the nutritional guidelines could perhaps lead to more healthy food having to be offered a la carte or in the vending machines and that could lead to lower sales. there's also a fair amount of concern about the fund-raising aspect. the regulations that the usda will come out with will sort of carve out an allowance for infrequent fund-raisers. it'snobody knows jhhow frequent that will be. some republicans i have spoken with are concerned, as well as teachers, how much will this hurt incumbents schools rely on? the usda pass made some changes to help cover the cost, for example, for the first time in 30 years you will see a 6 cent increase in reimbursement provided for school meals. that along with some higher

charges for a lot caa carte, thy will absorb most of the cost. host: this message from a viewer. and now a call from albany, georgia. caller: good morning. guest: thanks for calling. caller: i recently watched tom vilsack meet with the governors of all the different states. one thing they were talking about was growing vegetables at the schools and also using vegetables from local vendors. as a parent, what can parents do in terms of encouraging or influencing regulation in terms of school vending machines and encouraging local participation? that ai think it's great lot more schools are doing things like trying to get the local produce and growing some of it on campus to get kids involved.

i think the more kids are involved in understanding the menu, the more you buy into it and more likely to be less waste. there are things parents can do in terms of getting their concerns heard, saying we would really like to see this done, making suggestions. i know schools have been working in many cases with parents to make changes. a number of schools have already made changes to the competitive foods and snacks that are sold because of the feedback from parents. new york, i believe, as of 5% reduction in obesity and overweight among their children after their adopted many of the changes coming down from the usda. host: how long did that take for them to see the change? guest: i don't know, but i believe it was a year or two. but they saw a significant drop. on the other hand, there have not been schools that adopted a lot of the health care standards and requirements for the government mandated this.

they have problems with kids not eating the food and the waste. older kids instead of staying on campus are going more and more offsite to buy fast food, which raises additional concerns. so we have seen both happening. host: malcolm is a on our independent line from phoenix, arizona, where they are having their primary today. . good caller: good morning. i think it's a wonderful idea that they are regulating. as a matter of fact, if you are getting state aid as far as food stamps with the ebt card, a certain portion of the purchase should go for organic food, a certain amount of meat and a certain amount of vegetables. it gives some control over nutritional value for the kids, so the obesity would not be as high. if you look at the obesity rate

in the country, is staggering. so that goes toward the health care costs. everything the government does is not bad. so i think it's a good idea. thank you. guest: some good points. it's pretty staggering to consider that the number of children obese or overweight between ages of 6 and 11 has quadrupled since the 1960's. there are serious issues that our society is grappling with in terms of how to change children's diets if so this is not such a major concern. we were looking at some of the generals very concerned that kids coming out of high school to a list, more than a quarter of them were too overweight to a list. host: arizona is one of the states that is trying to opt out of these breaches of the lunch standards or the vending machine standards? guest: the lunch standards. there's a republican lawmaker and there will introduce a bill so that arizona could opt out and not have to make the change. host: how many states are trying

to? do to guest: it may only be arizona. i'm not sure. there's some pushback coming for some of this. definitely. host: rochelle is on the republican line from wisconsin this morning. thanks for joining us. caller: good morning. the government mandates the healthy meals to be served, but in wausau, wisconsin, the students cannot be made to eat the food on their plates. so the food they don't like is thrown away. regardless of what is served, they're not getting a balanced meal. the same with milk. gallons of milk being thrown away and food also. i did not know if that was wisconsin only or nationwide. could you speak on this? guest: definitely. i have a great deal of family in wisconsin and they are known for dairy products, so it's not

just wisconsin. that's another issue that educators and brought up with me in terms of the waste. they may provide these food items get the kids may not eat them. on the other hand, has spoken with nutritionists that's a the more the foods are offered, the more likely children are to eat them. as a parent, i follow the rule that you have to put things on the place five times before a child will give it a try. if so there's debate on that. i think you raise a valid concern that on one hand you don't want to serve children tater tots every day that they will eat that may not be good for them. on the other hand, one of the options of the manuals which to lunches, for example, is a chef's salad. my 9-year-old will not eat a chef's salad. so it's valid that schools are grappling with how can we make these more nutritious meals for the appetizing to the kids? one way they have done that is to get kids involved in some districts in helping plan the meals. in some cases that has turned

out very successful. host: stephanie armour is the bloomberg news? safety reporter. you can follow her on twitter. let's go back to the phones. ted is on the democrat line from oregon. caller: good morning. i will take as down a little bit of a different avenue. this is a little fishing town of the northern oregon coast with a population of about 5000 people. there's a local elementary school with over 80 homeless students sleeping on other peoples' couches and so forth. last year, i am a plumber by trade, i was doing a little job at the school and the school nurse told me that there had been students coming in on monday morning asking for a double breakfast. and so, behind closed doors the students tell the school nurse the reason i'm asking for a

double breakfast is because after i left school on friday i have not had anything to eat all weekend. so even though i am working half time, i do have some friends we are all in our early fifties and we went down gross restore. like i said, i donated a couple thousand dollars worth of food to the school to make sure that the little kids have some lunch on the weekends. is this going on in other parts of the country or is it just us? guest: it is definitely not just because you,. especially with the recession and the economy, there are more children going hungry now than there were years ago. that's definitely a concern. if that was also one of the driving factors behind what they are trying to do in terms of the lunch and breakfast standards, making sure that some kids get two thirds or more of their

calories from the schools, they're making sure what they're getting is really going to be nutritious and help them learn more in schools so that they're not hungry. that's one thing they shown really helps the learning curve as well. there was a little bit of concern from some groups because in order to shave down some of the cost of the new school lunch requirements, they did decide that they're no longer would need to be meat served in the morning for breakfast. that helped bring down the cost. at the same time that raised concerns about whether all kids would get enough protein from the meat industry. host: i wanted to ask you about a store that was in "the huffington post regarding a new study that came out last month talking about weight gain and the vending machine issue that has come up. the study found that weight gain, that link was disputed. the story notes that a new study from --

have you heard about this study? guest: i have. it's a study the school board administrators have been pointing to in terms of their concern about the new regulations that will come out this spring setting nutrition standards for vending machines and fund-raisers. interestingly, there are studies on the other side that show the access children have been elementary schools, half of children have access to competitive foods, do have a negative impact. so there is legitimate scientific research and study on both sides of the issue. host: back to the phones. willie is on our independent

line from jackson, tennessee. good morning. caller: how are you? a comment to the person that called from oregon. it's not just oregon. i worked with the school system in little rock, arkansas. a lot of the special ed students are there not because they have learning problems, but because they have other issues that forced them not to be able to focus or other things. but back to the issue i really called for, the conversation is about nutrition. i am dealing with focus. if you take a 12-year-old and they go to lunch and you give them caffeine and sugar in the form of a soda pop, when they come back inside after lunch, they are bouncing off walls and it's kind of hard to have a class with people that are jacked up on sugar and caffeine.

host: are you an educator? caller: i was. i have been there through football and i coached basketball and i also worked in the school system is a special- education. host: a focus on the attention, being that kids' attention spans are being affected by what they eat. guest: that is a valid issue. i do know there was a voluntary decision by many of the major manufacturers of soda not to sell sugary ones in the schools and more other than you can sell diet soda in high schools. so there has been some voluntary changes already done by the industry. but i think the caller is right on that nutritionally not-dense foods, that may be high in sugar, in certain situations can certainly cause a lot of hyper energy that may not be too good focus in schools. on the other hand, 7-year-old gets candy every friday in class

and that makes her very excited to go learn. but i think it's a very valid point and one of the things the usda hopes to address when they look at competitive foods. host: one of the issues we are talking about today is whether the kids will eat healthy foods, the subject of an editorial in the lincoln journal star in nebraska. there is a response to that on twitter -- we will go back to columbia, maryland. police shot is on our independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, everyone. the host, i don't think i know your name. host: i am jon. caller: good morning to you and your guest.

my love and blessings to the troops and bless their hearts. they are having a hard time. host: your thoughts on the food issues and vending machines standards that are coming down? caller: i don't know about the vending machines and so forth, but good luck to all the parents and allwho have to prepare food for the children and grandchildren. my granddaughter of looks at any vegetable and she will just turn up per knose and it's very hard to feed her. cheesekes pasta and every time you cook a meal. the way we sneak in the vegetables is to grind them up. we put them in hamburger and so forth. host: is this possible for the

schools to do or legal for them to do? guest: i think the schools are doing pretty inventive things. if you look at the before and after. here's a lunch school menu, that they think will happen because of an interest and standards. they are doing sweet potato baked fries. that has been popular with a number of kids. there are ways of doing things that are not so extreme that may be healthier but that still appeal to some of the tastes. sweet potato french fries are still pretty sweet. so schools are trying to sneak in vegetables in a more appealing or appetizing way for kids. host: we are talking about this lobbying taken too far, some folks believe. there's an editorial from the sacramento bee last week --

guest: it's a great issue. it's not just their but an issue being debated in other places as well. there is concern that having the food trucks near the schools that children are going out to get their meals and there are no nutrition standards on what is served in the food trucks. yet the food trucks of themselves are very concerned that if you look at how many actual schools and school districts if there are in these urban areas, putting a limit like that if we really restrict their ability to do business not just near schools but other areas. this has become a big issue in a lot of cities. host: are there other examples of bill's trying to extend into

what the private sector can sell near schools? guest: ensure there are. there's already been a lot of bills in terms of how close markets can be if they sell alcohol or those sort of things, but the food truck issue is becoming a hot issue right now. it's not necessarily an issue that deals with what the usda is looking at, but it is one to watch. host: william on the democrat line is from tennessee. you are on with stephanie armour of bloomberg news. caller: yes, what i would like to say is i would like all the schools improve because their bodies are over 80% water and that's one of the problems. the reason i would like to see the kids have plenty of water is because of water weight. they should get 15 minutes or 30

minutes a day of physical education to improve their overall physical abilities. it's not all about what the kids eat. it is the water is not clean enough. the kids cannot process the food properly. host: of wonder if some of what he is asking about is in some of the other prongs of the help the hungry kids act, which the standards are a part of. being five-pronged effort led by michelle obama. what else is part that act? guest: other aspects deal with some of providing technical guidance and assistance to schools in terms of how they can make these changes. compliance monitoring in some cases. the change in the usda providing more funding for reimbursable meals, which is the first big increase. i do think that you raised a

valid point, caller, that i have not seen as much discussion which has to do with physical activity of kids, in terms of how much recess and how much gym. is a lot of talk and articles and debate on the amount of focus they're putting on teaching to testing and is that taking away from the physical activity time? i remember a time when gym is to be five days a week. in many schools now it is one or two days a week. you get to an important point that should not be lost in this debate. host: from florida, gordon writes -- we will go with one more call from arkansas, french on our independent line. caller: yes, thanks. can you hear me? guest: yes, frank. caller: i am thrilled you are talking about nutrition. talking about nutrition.