talks on the justice budget. on "washington journal," we'll talk to jackie speier and fred barnes then michael riley on the threat to national security posed by computer hackers. >> what doesn't make sense so take unilateral positions. i don't recommend we put our sons and daughters in harm's way. i've got to make sure very sure we know whether we can achieve that mission, at what price, and whether or not will make matters better or worse. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] host: and you've been listening

to defense secretary i netta yesterday testifying in congress about the u.s. war in syria. and about whether the u.s. should intervene militarily in syria, and that's where we'll begin our program this morning. what do you think about u.s. military action in syria? here are the numbers to call in. please allow 30 days between your calls. you can also contact us electronically, journal@c-span.org is our email address, and you can make a comment at twit ir. twitter.com/c-spanwj or contact us at facebook.com/cspan.

again, what do you think about u.s. military intervention in syria? there's a "wall street journal" this morning. julian barnes writes panetta rejected calls from a key republican lawmaker for unilateral air strikes against the syrian military, but acknowledged the obama administration was considering delivering non-lethal aide to the country's rebels and panetta held fast to the u.s.'s involvement in syria during testimony before the arms services committee despite vociferous calls for action from john mccain, the panel's ranking republican. meanwhile, international observers were allowed to see the aftermath of basheer's aftermath of the decimated homes of baba amr.

grim assessments of the violent offensive spurred sometimes emotional questions at the hearing in washington. quote time is running out, assad's forces are on the march, mr. mccain said. how many more have to die? ten thousand more? 20,000 more? how many more? >> but mr. panetta rejected any prospect of unilateral action by the u.s. and he said that, unlike in the case of libya where intervention was backed by the u.n. -- your view about military action in syria. we begin with a democrat, carol in c.o., ohio. >> that's cio, ohio. caller: i don't think we need to be doing anything else over there.

we bombed all over iraq and tied up in afghanistan and we don't need to be doing anything else over there. because i don't think it's going to be good if you are our country. host: john on our republican line, what do you think about our intervention in syria? caller: i think we need step back and look at the big picture over there. you know? we have tunisia and libya and iran. i think it's obvious that in that area of the world, they have reset. i studied middle eastern politics 20 years ago, and it's the same leaders, same problems over there today as it was then. we've got the power for drop something in his front jack pocket, and i think it's time we stand up for what we're about and we do that. and i think the same thing with iran. we cannot let these leaders rule these countries the way

they are ruling them and creating such upheaval and disarray in that area of the world anymore. thank you. >> fort pierce, florida, alan, you're on the independent line, you're on "washington journal." go ahead. caller: i don't think this is the time to make air strikes. i don't think this is the time to do a no fly zone. this is a whole different situation from iran, iraq, what we need to do is support the efforts and maybe push russia and putin into not vetoing every u.n. resolution that has to do with syria. we need to work as a world together to make some changes. host: here again is the "wall street journal." page 12. panetta rules out strikes in syria. it talks about the exchange between leon panetta and john mccain. we showed you a little bit.

here's a longer piece of their piece yesterday. >> what doesn't make sense so take unilateral action at this point. as secretary of defense, before i recommend that we put our sons and daughters in uniform in harm's way, i've got to make very sure that we know what the mission is. i've got to make very sure that we know whether we can achieve the that mission, at what price, and whether or not lit make matters better or worse. those are the considerations i have to engage in, and obviously the administration bheaves that every effort ought to be need deal with those concerns in the international setting to try to build the international consensus that worked in libya and that will work in syria. >> well, let me tell you what's wrong with your statement. you don't mention american leadership. america should lead with this. america should be standing up

and building coalitions and we shouldn't have statements like, quote, that we are not going to intervene, no matter what the situation is, such has been at least up until now, the statements by the administration and the president. host: "new york times" report on syria. top pentagon officials stress risks in syria. general dempsey told senators the options under review included humanitarian air lifts. aerial surveillance and the establishment of a no fly zone. specifically he said, the president of the united states through the national security staff has asked us to begin the commander's constituent, a term for an initial assessment of a situation and tonal courses of military action. henry is in germantown,

maryland on our democrats line. what do you think? caller: i think first of all, with our current military postures in other parts of the world, we are not in position to directly influence the syrian situation at this time. however, i think that we should be diplomatically encouraging the neighbors of syria, such as turkey, jordan, lebanon, to increase their military presence to draw syrian forces to those areas. for their governments to start preparing humanitarian relief efforts to help the people we know need the help. and i think ewith increase our diplomatic pressure through the u.n., nato and other sources to pressure the government. and then if we continue to prepare larger amounts of humanitarian aide, i think that would be the best. then that puts us in the

position to influence the outcome of the fall of the syrian regime. thank you. host: and in raleigh, north carolina, chris on our republican line. chris, you're on the "washington journal." caller: unfortunately, a lot of this has to do with president obama's loss of leadership ability when it comes to the respect of the world. you have to wonder when you look all the way back at the beginning of this administration with the iranian up rising and the selective influence and intervention, you know? every time i turn around, i see who wins. who wins? radicalism. muslim brotherhood. but this is a situation where you're dealing with proxies. you have russia and china that are not going to sign on u.n. resolution. and you look at it like a bar. when you've got syria and russia sitting on -- excuse me russia and china looking at the

united states coming in the door and somebody slaps them and all of a sudden the united states says we're not going to be pushed around and we're not going to take abuse from anybody and russia and china say right. if the guy just got slapped coming in the door, gets slapped then drops the guy then russia and china say we don't really want to mess with that guy, because he'll fight. welcome to the world. that's the way it is. and we've lost all credibility with this president. thanks. host: accounts of torture and deprivation in homs conveyed by fleeing civilians have been denounced as enemy propaganda by the government of mr. assad who has belittled the mas demonstrations against him i had an assisted that his forces

have been battling foreign-backed terrorism while china and russia his biggest foreign supporters have defeated attempts by the united nations security -- wednesday, china announced it was withdrawing most of its workers from syria, reflecting what appeared to be declining confidence in mr. assad's powers of governance. and at yesterday's senate arms services committee meeting, he questioned leon panetta as well. >> there's no question they have huge stock piles, and if it got into the wrong hands, it would really be a threat to the security not only of the regional countries but the united states. >> are you recognizing you don't want to address this in an open session, but can you

compare it to the situation we found in libya last year? i know 20,000 man pads disappeared in libya. so how do we compare? >> it's 100 times worse than what we dealt with in libya. and for that reason, that's why it's raised even greater concerns about our ability to address how we can secure those sites. host: and the financial times, this is their take on the syrian situation. retreating rebels feel abandoned by west. janette in new york city. good morning. what do you think about u.s. military intervention in syria? caller: well, excuse me, i think it's high time that israel -- host: janettea, turn down the volume on your tv. caller: i turned it down.

hold on one second. i'll turn it off. host: you know? i'm going to put you on hold. don't hang up. eagle river, wisconsin. ron on our democrats line, you're on the air. caller: yes. good morning. here we go again, a bunch of angry old white men trying to start a war young men are going to have to fight. you know, i can't understand somebody has -- has mccain, i mean, when is he going to finally serve his usefulness and let the man retire. he has been trying to get us boo wars since vietnam. i think it's something where he feels he didn't win in life in vietnam, and it's correspondenting. this is crazy. we cannot go out and fight wars all over the world like this. it's destroying our own country as well as our own army. i feel sorry for these people.

just war after war. they didn't volunteer for this. host: janette, are you there? please go ahead with your comment. we're listening. caller: yes. i don't think israel should decide what we -- what wars we should fight in the middle east. israel decided we went into iran -- iraq. and they decided that we went into libya? they have -- assassinated scientists in iran. they have tried to involve us in the war. they are the -- they are the poison in the middle east. host: all right. janette, thank you for calling in. sheldon, connecticut. jim, republican line.

what do you think about u.s. military intervention in syria? >> i think it's part of the bigger shiite problem we've had since 1979 with the iranian revolution. i think that we have to work with the syrians to overthrow the assad regime. so that way we hurt the iranians. and further isolate them in the middle east. i think it would help israel with regard to the valley. i think radical islam is our main problem in the world with china coming fast. i think the with a has been yism coming out is just as dangerous, and i'm very scared that the next democratic movement nibe saudi arabia, and that will destabilize everything.

because then you think oil prices are high now? you will have all these democrats screaming for an intervention then when they have to pay $8 a gallon for gas. so i think we need a good strategic plan for fighting iran and iranian-backed shiitism all over the middle east. and i think we need to put pressure on saudi arabia to cap the with a ha byism over there. because that's where al qaeda and all that has sprung out of. host: we're going to leave it right there. monty tweets in, israel and saudi arabia have to give us the green light to intervene? we are not masters of our own destiny in the region! >> from "the hill newspaper." dennis kucinich said wednesday he would not pursue a house seat in another state despite

being denied to run for election in ohio. he lost his ability to run the district. in "the hill" newspaper. and this is from bright bart.com. you might have seen this video already. want to show you just a little piece. but this is this article. obama, open up your hearts and your finds radical professors. you can see the picture there. that is president obama in 1991 hugging derek bell at a rally at harvard. and they say that below his footage of barack obama praising and hugging professor derek bell it was spliced and diced by the media to avoid show houg close he was to bill and harvard law professor's ogle tree admitted on the tape

we hid this throughout the 2008 campaign. i don't care if they find it now. let's show you just a little bit of this rally of this tape from 1991 and then charles ogling tree showing it to an audience. >> open up your hearts. and your minds to the words of derek bell. [applause] >> now what makes this so interesting when you think about it, of course we hid this throughout the 2008 come pain. so i don't care if they find it now. >> and that was the video that the late andrew bright bart was talking about toward the end of his life. this is from "the hill" newspaper to meet budget members behind close doors. representative erik cantor will hold meets to go settle an

internal fight on g.o.p. spending limits. they were voting to deep budget as is or cut deeply. conservatives in cantor's conference are pushing for deeper cuts. members said they believed a compromise was on the horizon and that cantor could bridge differences within the conference. and in "the new york times," pat robertson says maureen use should be legal. he has -- his newest guise may perhaps surprise his followers the most. quote, i really believe we should treat marijuana the way we treat beverage alcohol, mr. robert said in an interview on wednesday. i've never used marion and i don't intend to, but i think

it's just one of those things that this war on drugs just hasn't succeeded. he made this on the 700 club, the signature program of his christian broadcasting network and other comments he made in 2010 while those earlier remarks were largely dismissed by his followers, mr. robertson has now apparently fully embraced the idea of legalizing marijuana. >> and michael is a democrat in sals barry, north carolina. hi michael. caller: good morning. i just want to say that i think john mccain should retire. they talking about the deficit. dwonet have no money. we going bankrupt, and yet they want to start another war, and we haven't got our young men and women out of afghanistan

yet, yet they want to start another war. i'm so glad that this -- we got an administration and a president with a sound mind and use good judgment towards our foreign policy. thank you. host: mississippi, rene on our independent line, go ahead with your comment. caller: yes. people, you can go on the internet and discredit anything that comes out of the pentagon media in less than an hour, like i did. the situation over there is that the united states has led nato and those in training, stationed them in turkey then sending them over the turk irk and lebanese border. if you would just google the arab league, because they sent

them in there to determine what the reportis. that hasn't seen the light of day. so it's -- they come out with these casualty figures that are easily discredited. host: we'll leave it there. a couple of our facebook comments. mayorly said no. we're not going into another war. >> peter says, no! we are broke. start helping american people for a change. there is no middle to syria. >> ken writes possibly, if it could be along the lines of what parking lot clinton -- of what president clinton did in

bosnia. from the washington times this morning, house faces deadline on road and infrastructure bill. house republicans are rushing to rewrite their massive $260 billion transportation bill ahead of an end of march some called it an egregious example of government overspending while others complained it cut too much from the favored projects in their districts. and while the house g.o.p. leaders --

>> highway trust fund money for another five years on road projects and to levy federal gas taxes that support the fund. next call on syria and potential syrian military intervention. john is a republican there. hi, john. john? we're going to move on to abilene, texas. joseph? on our democrats line. go ahead, joseph. caller: yes. my name is joseph. i'm from abilene, and i think syria and iran deserve everything they are going to get from the united states. we've been in trouble with them for years and years and years. and it's time we did something over there. and what our main concern

should be is getting our allies to cooperate with us. thank you, sir. host: from bill on twitter. what's everyone upset for in mccain is only calling for what president obama did in libya. that was ok, right? and this is oscar -- are we the united states of mercator united states of the stpwhorled and who among us has any say in the matter? and joseph says, what happens after we change regimes in syria and borg file clerk writes there nose oil or gas pipeline there, so why do we care? >> and fueling debate over afghan war. a roadside bomb killed six british soldiers inflicting the worse loss of life for british

troops in a single incident since 2006 and prompting renewed questions over the course of the unpopular war. there's a chart of afghan death. the u.s. has lost 1909 soldiers and civilians. great britain, 404. canada, 158. france 8 2, germany 52. italy, 49, etc. and down to other nations, 91 in total. winston-salem, jamie on our independent line, what do you think about our intervention in syria? caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. first, i warrant to expand phenomenon comment on your facebook. about the oil. if they had oil we obviously would be there. that's just the way we do. but this is a worthy cause to help these people. assad is killing his own people and torturing them.

we really could do a lot with our public relations and our image in the middle east if we would help these people who were burning chinese and russian flags in damascus. they need our support. what he's doing is wrong. he also supports iranian terrorism and terrorists. he's had a lot to do with the fascinations of lebanon. it's so funny. we go in and destroy iraq, and they have oil. and these people are really friends of ours. syrians are good people. we need to help these people. he is murdering his own people. get on the right side of this. host: as i sealya. good morning. caller: yes. i'm against going to syria for what reason right now. the people are handling their business. we should sit back and let the

people handle their business. they are fighting their own war. they want to be free, but our country is in disarray right now. and there's so many things going on in our own country right now, we need to get right now we're scared over there. we need to sit back and let people handle their business and let them ask us for help and right now the u.n. and none of them are stepping in either. it needs to be a global thing where we all come together and help those peep. it shouldn't just always be the united states running over there saying we got to be the leader and this and that for these people. these people are fighting their own war. they want to take over their own country. get them the -- like you said, humanitarian help and other things to help them, but to go

over there and fight a war for them? that's totally wrong. >> "usa today," satellite images pick up trucks and earth-moving vehicles indicating an attempted today sergs from the dip mats translated to the to have could add pressure to iran which tie ran says is not aimed of building a weapon. iran is suspected of building a nuclear weapon and the c.i.a. said iran's your rain yum! enriching amount go beyond what

is needed for developing something less than arms. and the -- one day after a face-to-face meeting with president obama, a group of the nation's most powerful business leaders challenged washington lawmakers to not wait until after the fall election to take place on so they are not waiting before the making meaning null policy change

changes, and we shouldn't either. says jace mcinerny jr., bowing c.e.o. -- boing c.e.o. quote our message to the federal government is simple and straightforward. get your house in order and get started than to task right now. said robert a. mcdonald's procter & gamble c.e.o. the plan "taking action for america" also included more tax cuts. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think panetta hit the nail on the head. because it would be like upsetting the balance of power. and it was just five weeks ago or so, they were saying they really didn't want any military intervention. oh, yes. one other thing about the chinese widening the panama

canal. i think once they do that, they are going to make kyi they are going to make kentucky and that mountaintop look like -- we've got to go to horzovental screws for getting power. host: we're going to stick with the syria issue. we got our hands full with that. tweeting in, still not america's problem. it's a drag but syria's drag not ours. "wall street journal" this morning ohio house republican loses to primary challenger representative gene smith of ohio became the first congressman to lose losing 49%-43% to political november is brad win struck. miss submit is anout going --

the ethics committee ruled miss is mitt had to repay legal bills that had been footed by an outside group. >> that was in the "wall street journal." brown tournings michigan, james, independent line, u.s. policy in syria. what do you think about military intersflention caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think we should just look back in history to these things

we have done in the past and the leaders we have put in place. look at afghanistan where we nut karzai. nobody likes him. pakistan has rand people ready for world war iii? that's pretty much my question. host: joy on the democrat line. caller: i echo a mark that -- a remark that a gentleman earlier, when he called in about john mccain. i understand mccain, what he went through when he was tortured. and i respect john mccain a lot. but i feel that because of that, he wants to punish, you know, every -- you know, he wants to go to war with every other country.

i also want to say that i keep -- hearing the word to protect america's interests, and that is code word for oil. now a lot of republicans will say, well, if you don't want to be dependant on foreign oil, let's drill here. let's do the keystone. well, all that does is when we drill here, all that oil goes on to the world market. it gets peck late on, so we export -- so i think we just need to get our fiscal house in order in america. there's been unrest in the middle east since time began. and we are not going to be able to do anything about it. thanks for c-span. host: and more on facebook,

chad says let the u.n. handle it. then it's an international effort. michael writes not until we have some idea what replaces the baathists and we don't need more. and tami says is invasions in nine nations in 10 years not enough for these warmongers? that topic will continue past the day on washington journal caller: good morning, peter. i think during the last election period, nancy pelosi was on the air, and she had made a trip over to syria. i don't recall what our problems were with syria then, but she was talking about how well we were getting along.

i just remember -- wonder if anybody remembers that. host: our lead story, syrian money transfers track. searching for any sign of splintering. the u.s. tracked what it suspects is the transfer of millions of dollars in foreign accounts by elites with ties to president ba char al-assad. but the flow of money is murky and u.s. intelligence if i believes said they cannot estimate the total amount rand still trying to assess of -- >> this is greg miller's story in "the washington post," and it's the only nape carries that story this week. now washington times, their

lead editorial is a response to erik holder's speech at northwestern university on tuesday it was. obama and the assassin's creed, administration falls short in justification for killing americans overseas. most troubling is mr. holder's assertion that the decision to kill americans abroad rests -- host: and this is how they conclude their editorial.

mr. holder wants an unchecked infringement based cheerful on expedience cri with worrying implications for its domestic application. host: that's washington times editorial this morning. back to your calls on syria. register naled in houston. good morning. independent line. caller: good morning. t for taking my call. america's about divide and conquer. she'll go in and divide a country up and support one side then come in and take over. when bush did crimes against humanity against iraq and

afghanistan and those crimes against humanity were never brought to america's court. what happened to blessed are the peacekeepers? and love our neighbors and love ourses and do unto others as we want to be done to us, we have to stop acting like criminals. i wish somebody would hold us accountable. the u.n. and barack obama is doing the same thing as the bush regime. there's no difference as far as drawing up attacks. we are assassins and we have to repent for what we're doing if we want to be spared. host: we got a tweet from the fact that means. i guess is the handle. the fact a c-span was showing

markedly edited clip land isering u.s. d.o.j. attorney derek bell is a clear embarrass mean. i just want to make clear that the bright bart video we showed you was exactly as it was shown on the late mr. bright bart's website. that's how they put it together. we were simply showing you what they put it. it was an exclusive last night on the hannity show on fox. we were simply showing what was actually there. so it's not something we edited. john is a republican in new orleans. what do you think about the u.s. involvement militarily in syria. john, you know the rules! got to turn down that volume on your tv, otherwise the show just grinds to a complete halt. joey, independent, corpus christi. you with us?

caller: yes. i don't understand. john mccain made a good point saying we stand for liberty, justice and proceed to m. so why don't we do what we did in libya? we helped them before they invaded, you know? host: joey, thank you for calling in this morning. want to show you a couple of the papers from around the country and their headlines this morning. here's the "pittsburgh post gazette." voter i.d. passes pennsylvania senate, and the republicans expect the house to approve and the same story of the. i.d. law will shave voter rolls. records show millions may be rejected at polls if state measure on fraud is ok'd. and a couple papers now dealing

with the republicans. "richard times dispatch." signing the ultrasound bill. and a side story is numbers unkind to gingrich and santorum. that's the front page of "the richard times-dispatch. ." dayton, ohio, what's your thought on military intervention in syria? caller: i would like to go back to an article you raid earlier. about the attorney gentle's statement on killing americans overseas. i'm looking at the constitution here, article iii, section iii. they define that kind of behavior as treason. and the punishment for treas season death. so if americans go overseas and they decide they want to work against and fight against this

country, they are setting themselves up to be killed if they can't be captured. what's wrong with that? host: that was david in dayton. now local papers all with basic thirty same story, host: here in the boston globe, romney lead big, but win is far off. that's their lead story. "los angeles times," already looked at. actually, this is the "los angeles times" for this morning. g.o.p. including fest could drag on until june. and the california primary, by the way, is in june. and wichita eagle. candidates shift focus from kansas. and kansas is the next state that will hold republican caucuses.

from the sun herald in south mississippi, candidates in south mississippi to woo -- candidates here to woo mississippi voters. this is in hawaii. g.o.p. caucus voters matter for first time. and out of chicago, lead story, illinois has become a primary g.o.p. prize. a lot of similar stories playing there. we've got three guests coming up on the "washington journal." our last segment today, we're going to be looking at the issue of computer hacking and what the u.s. government is doing to prevent it. before that fred barnes of the weekly standard and fox news will be out here to talk with us and before that jackie speier will be here to talk about various issues in the congress. we'll be right back.

>> this weekend there are two ways to watch the tucson festival of books, on c-span 2 and at book tv.org. at 3:00, panels on forensic science. and mexico's drug wars at 6:00. sunday panels continue with the environment. the great depression at 2:30, and at 5:30, studying the brain. and throughout the weekend, look at coverage streaming live on book tv.org saturday beginning at noon eastern and sunday starting at 2:30.

the tucson festival of books on c-span 2 and book tv.org. >> they are not fighting and dying because they are al qaeda or sacrificing their lives because they are muslim extremists, they are fighting and dying because they want the same rights we -- we missed an extraordinary strategic opportunity. >> i want to make the point that the concerns that senator mccain and you and others have expressed are exactly the concerns of the administration. we are not divided here. and we are not holding back. this administration has led in iraq. we have led in afghanistan and we have led in the war on

terrorism. we led in libya, and we're leading in syria. we are working with those elements to try to bring those together. if the agreement here is that we ought not go in simply unilaterally, then we have to build a multilateral coalition. we have to be able to work at that. it's not that eyes to deal with some of the concerns that are out there. online the c-span video library. search events from this year and earlier. with over a quarter century of american politics on your computer at c-span.org/videolibrary. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us is representative jackie speiers a member of the arms services committee and senior deapt whip. representative speier, welcome to "washington journal."

guest: thank you. host: we spebt the first 45 minutes talking with viewers and whether u.s. should get involved in syria. guest: i think the times of us moving in solo to try and take over the world have to cease. so as a nato participant, i would say, yes. and i sympathy the bloodshed going on there is something we cannot continue to just observe. host: so do you see this as a short-term possibility guest: i would see it as a short-term possibility, but when it comes to war, short-term is not -- i want to talk to you about housing.

it seems there are several assistance programs out there. how would you rate the government's efforts so far to assist people who are being forclosured on or under water? >> i would give the federal government an a for effort and a c for execution. because we have done a very poor job in terms of bringing the financial services the rilt is -- the result is unless the bottom line was attractive to financial services, they didn't get attention. with hind site we should have made tarp part of the deal with bailing out the banks, that should we be in this kind of financial meltdown, that in terms of forclosures, they would follow certain patterns and make these programs available. much of what's being offered

now is still voluntary. i think that every fannie mae and freddie mac loan in this country should be eligible for a reduction in the actual interest rate that's being offered. we put these programs into place, one, that you would have to have an 80-20 loan to battle. but let's say you're 50/50 and out of work and have cancer. you're not going to be able to handle that moveraget if you reduce the interest rate from six to four, that's a significant savings to the homeowner. host: is there a taxpayer cost to that? >> no. guest: if you walk on it, the taxpayers are going to be in the hole for even more than they would be in f people stay in their homes and pay their

mortgage payments. unemployment rate nationally, your state, 11.1% and san ma teo county, 7.2%. what's the economics of your county? and to tie it into the housing issue, what's the forclosure rate at this point? is that a troublesome issue for you in your district? guest: in my district, let me tell you what it's like. i have genentech, youtube and facebook. so it's a bustling county with lots of innovation, lots of start-up companies, so we're doing better than the national average, obviously. for home forclosures, less in my area than around the country, certainly. host: but is it higher? i am sorry, is it high for the state of california? >> no. it is not. it is lower.

>> is you're doing pretty much -- -- >> two more issues we want to put on the table before we begin taking your calls for representative jackie speier. eight rim alleged raped in retaliation in u.s. military. this came out yesterday or tuesday, i should say. is this a story you're following, and as a member of the arled services committee, are you planning on pursuing this? guest: i've introduced legislation on this issue i feel very strongly about. about 19,000 men and women are sexual assaulted or raped in the military. those are figures from 2010 from the department of defense. of that 19,000 figure, about 13% actually report to crime,

and only 8% actually are process it is a system that is wrought with conflict of interests. and it is a system in which the perpetrator gets a pass and the vill gets victimized a second time over. host: when you've talked to the military about this, what's been the response? guest: actually, i met with secretary panetta on this issue, and he was shocked. shortly after he became the secretary of defense, he said he had zero tolerance for sexual assault in the c.i.a., and he was going to pursue it. but the problem is, every person has said we have a zero tolerance and yet the rapes continue. the remains continue, and they are not prosecuted. and so i'm very committed to changing that pair dime. -- that paradigm. host: let's put this in politics.

has the debate and discussion in this country about contraception and its role been beneficial to democrats? guest: i think the cultural wars that have percolated to the top have certainly awakened women in this country that the republican party for the most party does not speak for them when it comes to women's health care. and that issue has been pounded by my republican colleagues since last year, and it's been a drum beat they continue to beat, even though there's clear indication that women in this country dealt with this issue in the 1960's. host: this was in the "wall street journal," this column we're about to show you on tuesday, i believe it was. limbaugh and our phony contraception debate is the title of our column wline by kathy, the general council for

the family research council. she writes, i was not a catholic when i attended georgetown law, but i certainly knew the university was and so did another, she told "washington post" that she chose georgetown fauxing specifically that the school did not cover drugs that run contrary to catholic teaching and it's student health plans. she is not the every- -- the everywoman portrayed in the media. guest: first of all, look at the facts. georgetown university vifedsdroonception coverageto its employees but does not that to its students. how do you square that?

in california i carried the legislation that thrired if you were offering a prescription drug benefit, you must offer contraception drugs. final hour, the catholic bishops came in and said we want an exception to the church staff, the church school. but not for hospitals and not for universities. because they are much more secular in their function, and what we found, catholic health care west at the time was 75% of those, they were already providing contraceptions and pills to their employees. so this issue has long been decided. and the real question should be why would georgetown offer benefits to its employees that it doesn't involve for

democrats, republicans and independents. -- call numbers below. senator jackie speier is our guest. she spent six years on the san ma teo county board of supervisors. the first call up for her is gary in makan, missouri, on our independent line. go ahead. caller: yes. i'd like to ask this lady if -- and i'm sure she knows about an article i see on abc about -- it's been a few months ago, and the only report i and nobody

has reported but the chinese are building this bridge with chinese labor and chinese steel and chinese labor and nobody is talking about this bridge, where the money come from, and you know, it's said to be the biggest -- largest self--anchored suspension bridge in the world. host: what is this bridge? guest: the bridge as a result of the 1989 earthquake had to be changed. had to be removed. so this is a bridge that's going replace the bridge that has been there since the 1930's. the bridge being built by u.s. contractors and u.s. employees. the steel, however, is from china, and when the bid was put for consideration, there was no citizenshiplation that it had to be u.s. to --

host: bob, you're on the "washington journal." caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i do think the people that are receiving any help from the government, as far as being under water on their home loans deserve it, because the banks got a bailout. a.i.g. got aig got a bit loud. they fleeced the money they were supposed to be holding in reserve. they use more of the money that we gave them to pay their executives with. my other comment is that the keystone pipeline is going to a

place in texas where it is going to be exported. i am all for the keystone pipeline as long as we get most of the oil at reasonable rate and they do not sell it at market prices to europe. guest: let's start with the keystone pipeline. there are two issues that need to be resolved before the pipeline is constructed. one is the leaks. there were more spells in the first couple of months -- spills in the first couple of months than they were expected to be over the lifetime. we have to deal with those because it impacts our water and sustainability. the oil that will be shipped will not be in the u.s. market.

it is more than likely going to go to china. it cannot easily -- easily be used for energy needs here in the united states. in terms of your question about aig, the interesting thing about aig is they survived because it was an insurance company and had to have reserves. it is when we allow insurance companies to become banks and bank, -- banks to become insurance companies, but started to be less responsible in terms of having the kind of reserves that they typically did in the insurance industry. that is a mistake the congress and president clinton made at the time. host: there has been political talk that the democrats are

feeling confident they could possibly take the house. guest: i would say we are much more optimistic than we were one year ago. a lot of things have to fall our way. our messaging is resonating with the american people who are not interested in political warfare, as they are interested in the housing crisis. host: something you might not know about representative jackie speier -- she began as a congressional aide. what is your back story, quickly. guest: i was a counsel to congressman ryan in 1978 who went to johnstown, trying to

free people. i was shot five times and left for dead, but it was not my time, so i came home and made a commitment to never take another day for granted. host: how long did you live there? guest: 22 hours. host: who rescue? -- rescued you? guest: the guy amy's -- the guy in knees. caller: i am a conservative woman, and i am upset with you in stimulating the all women are upset with this stance on contraception. the president went to the national prayer breakfast

saying what jesus would do on tax policies. well, there are biblical principles that many of us think are important. these cultural issues are rooted in that. the one i wanted to specifically say is corinthians 6, verse 9, and that is about sexual immorality. this girl at georgetown wants to engage in fornication, and she wants us to subsidize for it. guest: it takes two. it is interesting that this is all laid on women because we have reproductive organs. there is nothing in the bible that says contraceptives should

not be available to women. obviously, the bible was written centuries ago. i am a practicing roman catholic. when i was a kid growing up, it was a mortal sin to eat meat on friday, and then after a new pope, you did not have to sustain -- refrain from eating meat on friday. why do we allow this pontifical action to be so severe and unwilling to have any kind of flexibility? it is a mortal sin when i was a kid. it is not today. host: you mentioned you are a roman catholic. about one year ago, you spoke on the house floor, and here is the headline from "the huffington post."

guest: it was a debate on whether or not we should continue to provide funding to planned parenthood, who provides services for breast cancer, contraceptive pills, and 3% of their business is for abortion services. none of the federal money was going for that purpose. one of my colleagues started talking about second trimester abortions, and was describing a leg been sawed off. i was stunned by it. i had a second trimester miscarriage that resulted in abortion, because that is what happens when you miss carey, you have an abortion. i was incensed because it was not the experience i had. it was a painful experience. i lost a baby carriage for him

to conduct himself in the way he did -- baby. for him to conduct himself in the way he did really set me through the roof, and i spoke out about it. host: the next call for jackie speier comes from huntington beach, california. gary, on our independent line. caller: since i am in southern california, i can see the housing crisis is not going to be fixed until the banks take a hair cut on what is owed. i am talking about people in strategic foreclosures giving up their house because it is under water. i know they have good credit.

going back to earlier people saying that the banks got bailed out, they made a commitment to do the right thing. i happened to be in the mortgage business at that time, so i know i was taught -- caught totally off-guard by the piracy in the big banks. i include fannie and freddie in there. host: we will leave it there. guest: you are right. we have about 50 million homes in the country that are probably under water. we have 5 million better in some form of foreclosure, and another-to-3 million that are being held back. -- another two-to-3 million that are being held back.

we need homes repurchase, and we will not have the economy returned until we stabilize the housing market and have a new starts in terms of the construction of homes. i think the concept of principal reduction, which is what i think you are suggesting, is one that has merit, but what people really need is relief in monthly mortgage payments. that is why we need to take the lead off of the restrictions we have put in place for loans fannie and freddie hold. they should be eligible for interest deductions that could mean upwards of $500, $600, $700 a month for homeowners. host: jackie speier graduated law school from the university of california. an undergraduate degree from uc- davis. walter is a democrat in charlottesville, virginia. caller: i want to congratulate

the representative for her understanding of the complexity of every topic she is covering. we are in great shape. on contraception, the intent is clear, but this has gotten clear because it is impossible for catholic services to function without support from the federal government, which clearly has to allow the federal government to make some determination on how the money is being used. thank you very much. guest: i am not sure that was a question, but i would say that the catholic church, any religious organization has the right to protect its values, and not have to do things that offend those values. when an organization becomes more secular, engaging in more

secular activity, they have to be more responsible and comply with the laws everyone else complies with. as the church expands and provides services outside of its nexis, where it becomes a hospital and provides services to the community at large, he needs to comply with laws that every other hospital complies with. host: jackie speier is our guest. new jersey. calling. a republican. go ahead. caller: good morning. i'm not sure if you agree with the war on women. do you agree with that? guest: i do not like throwing around the word "or" in that context. war is a serious engagement, ripe with all kinds of

difficult elements. there is not a war on women in my view. there is a culture war going on. i think that women need to recognize that they should not be pawns in a political game that might be been played, and i think women should stick up for them selves. host: michigan. mary. democrat. i apologize. not yet, mary. steve is an independent in phoenix, arizona. caller: i am really impressed by your back story. i remember seeing a story on jonestown awhile back. knowing that was you laying on the ground there is amazing to me. my question is the subject is the democratic agenda in congress. considering you have 100 federal justices -- judges filibustered

in the senate, and if president obama were to get reelected, how do you plan to move your agenda for considering the problems you have had over the last four years? guest: i think the american people should send a strong message to members of congress -- put your weapons away. come together. find ways to work together. i think we have to move off of this polarization on both sides, and find ways to work together. that is what the american people want to see. we will not get 100% of everything we want. we may not get 75%, but there has to be a way to come together and resolve some of these issues we are dealing with in this country without the kind of acrimony that has been exhibited in the last couple of years. supreme court -- host: the supreme court taking

up the health care law. if parts of it are overturned, what happens? guest: i think we cross the bridge when and if we get to it. i do not think it will be overturned. we have a long history of requiring proof of auto insurance. a mandatory responsibility. the individual mandate for health insurance, i think, will be held constitutional. it is certainly something we will see in the next few months. there is so much in the affordable care at that americans have already embraced. weather is keeping your children on their health insurance plan, until they're 26, like i'm doing with my son right now, or the protection of been foreclosed from having health insurance.

those are hugely important. host: from "usa today" -- satellite images indicate iranian nuclear cleanup. are you satisfied with the approach towards iran? guest: i think the approaches responsible. i think it is important we impose sanctions. we are now imposing sanctions on their national bank. i think we should go as far as we can in terms of banks, and to see if they will work. if that does not work, the next step, of course, is making sure that iran does not get nuclear power. host: the chairman of your armed services committee was on "newsmakers" and he said it is a bipartisan committee.

would you agree with that? guest: i have only been on the committee for three weeks, so it is hard for me to make that kind of assessment. i think the committee has had a history of working together. i want to make sure we work together on military sexual trauma as well. host: michigan. mary, thank you for holding. caller: no problem. i am a patient person. i'm incredibly impressed. i'm watching what is in the house and the senate, and i had no idea we had someone like you in there. if we had more, we would get more done. in michigan, we knew about things being dead before a lot of the country did. we tried to buy michigan, america, usa, and when you talk

about buying steel from china, any time there is a bid from some other country that does not have the same restrictions, we have the same benefits, are we not always going to come out on the bottom? host: just to add to that -- an guest: i would agree to both married and -- mary and sue -- i believe we have to bring manufacturing back. if we have to create incentives to these companies that have a source jobs, particularly apple.

i'm doing my part for michigan. we have a cabin. i love michigan. i'm thrilled to see their reticence. -- renaissance. host: you mentioned apple and bringing back jobs. what can the congress do to encourage apple to bring more jobs back? guest: i think we have to do in terms of tax policy. 5% of the companies have over $1 trillion overseas that they would like to repatriate, and mime messages i want to see you repatriate -- my message is a want to see you repatriate the money so there is benefit to americans, and i think that means a percentage of the money you bring back has to be specifically for building new factories, bringing manufacturing back, for creating new jobs. host: from "the washington

times" -- the fiscal roundtable challenged congress to take action and the chairman said economic competitors are not waiting until after the elections to make meaningful policy changes, and we should not. guest: it sounds like a ceo would make statements like that. we have 435 members of the house. everyone in the house is up for reelection. one-third is up in the senate. we have a president running for reelection. it probably makes good sense, but if you want a straight answer, it is probably not going to happen. host: is the agenda for the

congress pretty much over for the year for major items? guest: we have done virtually nothing in the first three months of this congressional year. i am quite embarrassed by what we have not accomplished. i hope speaker boehner will turn up the heat, and we will get a transportation bill through the process. i am hoping that we are going to do some solid work on the budget, but i am not certain that both of those things are going to happen. host: new jersey. you doing,'re congresswoman? i am a disabled veteran. i have been shot, and i feel your pain. i am a russian immigrant. i came here in 1952 at three years old. still through china, what kind

of quality is it, they poisoned as before? were you ever in the military? syria, one drawn, a couple of air-to-ground missiles, problem solved. yes, we all sinned. host: steel, syria, and sen. -- sin. guest: back to the steel issue, it was a decision made by a republican administration, and i had no say in that. having said that, the taxpayers are paying the bill for the building of that bridge. those were the decisions made. the second question? host: military service? have you ever served in the military? gee, i have not, but i felt like i did for a short time.

-- guest: i have not, but i felt like i did for a short time. host: natural gas? guest: i think we need to be much more bullish in terms of how we extract natural gas. i was recently in israel, and i was blown away by a company that has built an electric car with a battery that you could actually switched out in less than four minutes. a car could go 400, 500 miles easily. we have to get less dependent on foreign oil and we need to do it in a bold way. this company in israel has done it. they will be creating that network in denmark, austria, and in israel, and even -- in the bay area in california.

we have to get to it. host: charlotte, north carolina. marcus. a democrat. caller: good morning. i would like to address and clear up something one of your past callers said about miss sandra fluke. i watch c-span, and she said absolutely nothing about sex. her argument was not about herself, but a friend of hers that was not able to get contraceptives and lost her reproductive organs. host: what do you think about the fact that we are having a national debate about those issues? does that strike you as the right thing? caller: i think it is really,

really crazy. people come up with anything to attack this president or anyone on the left, and right, sometimes. ridiculous things like contraceptives -- it is a health issue. i wish people would learn more about it, and stop thinking is just abortion or about sex. host: any comments, jackie speier? guest: you are absolutely right. ms. sandra fluke was referring to a classmate who has ovarian cancer, and contraceptive pills are used to assist with pre- cancer conditions for ovarian cancer, and it is also used for acne. it has many purposes. many purposes besides preventing the embryo from being created

for purposes of preventing -- what is the word i'm looking for? pregnancy. that is the word i'm looking for. [laughter] host: orlando, florida. republican line. caller: i have two comments. on the contraceptive debate, why was the issue just framed for catholics? there are different religions and a lot of religions that object to different things. there was a famous case where someone's son had cancer, and they do not believe in medicine. they believe solely on prayer. i am sure you cut a framed the issue a little better so it is not just focused on catholics. on health care, the issue is

about economic activity. i think it is imperative that the government must argue that everyone is already engaged in economic activity as far as the health-care market because everyone is born or dies in a hospital, and they utilize the medical services. everyone gets sick. i am hoping the government wins on this argument, and that is basically my comment. host: just to add on, this fromr guest: i am not familiar with the amish experience there. there was a case about a jehovah's witness, of where they were not going to make blood transfusions available -- where they were not going to make blood transfusions available,

and the court held they had to be made available. there is a separation of church and state. you have religious freedom, but as you move into a more secular setting, no matter what your religious beliefs are or what your religious organization is, the more secular you become, the more you will be subject to the laws everyone else must comply with. host: the last call comes from tulsa, okla., mack to come but independent line. -- matthew, independent line. caller: i would like to echo the same sentiments many of the other callers have to you, representative speier. you seem well-reasoned and i agree with most of your statements. i agree with basically everything except one point, and that was touched on from the last caller -- by the last

caller. car insurance is a mandate, but i am sure you know the states and the federal government had different restrictions. the federal government has authority, and the states have limited authority. [unintelligible] if you could comment on the ability to regulate the health- care market. guest: your question relates to the function of congress, and there are plenty of examples historically, whether it was the creation of social security or medicare, where it was on a national level, and while it was not an enumerated power, it was one that was implied to the constitution. that would be the basis on which the affordable care act would be upheld

constitutionally. we will certainly have the opportunity to watch the supreme court's inaction on this. -- in action on this. finally, -- host: finally, this from twitter -- representative speier, if the democrats win back the congress, will they let the bush tax cuts expire this time? guest: the bush tax cuts will expire at the end of this year, and it will still be this congress. i think these tax holidays put in place by president bush will expire, but the question then becomes do we put in place some protection for those making under $250,000 a year. host: do you foresee a lame duck session? guest: i do. host: jackie speier has been our guest for the last 45 minutes,

the senior democratic whip, who represents and the tail county in california. san mateo county in california. -- san mateo county in california. coming up next, fred barnes after this update. >> untested and syria reach a senate foreign relations committee -- an update on syria -- senator relations committee chairman john kerry says a crackdown should not be tolerated, but the united states and the international community must respond in a responsible way. when asked about intervention, he replied is that the right thing to do tomorrow or the next day? i think not. meanwhile, the deputy oil minister from syria has defected. he is the highest ranking officials to abandon president

bashar al-assad. former attorney general kospi annan is on his way to, in his words, "started political process to resolve the conflict." those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> i believe it is yet possible that we will come to admire this country, not simply because we were born here, but because of the kind of great and good land that we wanted to be, and that together we have made it. that is my hope. that is my reason for seeking the presidency of the united states. >> as candidates campaign for president this year, we look

back in 14 men who ran for president and lost. >> the leadership of this nation has a clear and immediate challenge to go to work effectively and immediately to restore proper respect for law and order in this land, and not just prior to election day, either. congratulations to all of this year's midwinters of the studentcam video documentary competition all entered -- competition. all entered upon why the constitution is important to them. join us in april when we show the top 27 videos, and we will talk to the winners during "washington journal." >> "washington journal" continues.

host: fred barnes, when mitt romney woke up, did he feel he had a super -- successful super tuesday? guest: sure he did. he won a lot more delegates. he pulled further ahead of rick santorum and newt gingrich in delegates. i do not mean to diminish the success that rick santorum had, but certainly when in tennessee, oklahoma, and to the surprise of everyone, he won in north dakota. i think it helped rodney, but it also solidified -- romney, but it also solidified that rick santorum is the real challenger. host: in look at the current field for republicans still in, which is the strength and weakness of this field? guest: there is still a great

deal of yearning among conservatives for someone else to get in the race. i think the chances are slim. when of the problems with mitt romney which one of the problems with mitt romney -- one of the problems with mitt romney is everyone says he is a week from runner. usually, by this time, the party with a unified behind him. mitt romney has not been able to do that, partly because of the way the primaries were set up this year, to deny winner-takes- all in the early primaries. i think there is still residue of doubt about him from the 2008 race, particularly in regard to the press. i think a lot of reporters thought he was a fall in 2008 and have not warmed up to him -- salty in 2008, and that not warm up to him. he still has not generated the

common touch with voters. rick santorum is running a campaign based entirely on being a conservative and a hard-nose conservative at that. it is something to do in the primaries. when you get the nomination, you move toward the center. with the resources he has had, he is done well. newt gingrich has been up and down, and i personally never know what his point to say. he won georgia. he will have to win next week, mississippi, and alabama. if he saw his speech after the primaries, he went on and on, and on tangents, and i think that sums up his campaign. then there is ron paul. he will be in there for that 10%, 15%, 20% of the vote, and he will be there in a strong way at the convention in august.

i'm sure he will have a speech, and who knows committee his son, senator rand paul will have one as well. host: and op-ed in "the washington post" -- he compares it to richard nixon. this is what he says. they do not like me, but it tolerate me. that is the best raw meat is likely to do with tea party errors the tea party. -- the tea party and conservatives, but as it was for nixon, this might be enough. guest: is better to have the enthusiasm of the groups, but i think romney will happily settle for their support, and i think he will get it if he is the nominee. he is the most likely of the

candidates to be the republican nominee, and despite all of the fisticuffs in this race for the nomination, i think the party will come together pretty well because almost any republican you talk to, conservative as well, will tell you they are interested in defeating president obama. mitt romney does have limitations with those groups. host: fred barnes, d.c. any similarity between this campaign and past campaigns yet covered? guest: they're all different, and they did change the rules for a nominee to re-emerge earlier. one of the things you see is candidates running for a second time are better parent i think romney's a better candidate than -- better. i think rodney is a better candidate. really showed with ronald reagan

where he ran in 1976, and then in 1980 protect himself. -- perfected himself. all the campaigns are different. host: george will says forget the presidential race, concentrate on keeping congress. guest: if you want to keep congress, you have to concentrate on the presidential race. there are a number of states where it makes a difference on whether obama wins the state. i come from virginia. president obama ran a spectacular campaign in virginia, have been a good democratic for the first time since 1964. if he does that again, if he could pull together even of version of the electorate he pulled together in virginia, it will make it hard for republicans to win that senate seat.

george allen is a republican nominee. the democrats have a good candidate in former governor tim kaine. that is just one state. in many you need the republican presidential candidate to do well in order to gain or protect the senate seats and house seats. host: here is the delegate count for the top four candidates. 419 for mitt romney. host: coming up march 10 is the kansas caucus, march 13, alabama and mississippi primaries, march 17, the missouri caucuses. when you look a bad road map, how does it look for mitt romney? -- that road map, how does look for mitt romney?

guest: a bug in the road. -- bump in the road. i think rodney will have trouble in all of those states. senator might do well in kansas. rick santorum might do well in kansas. romney might surprise in. i think in democratic states he will do well, particularly on the last day of the primary. that is a long ways off. host: if you watch any of the news shows, you have seen fred barnes on fox news, but he is also a -- and executive editor of "weekly standard" magazine. caller: as a conservative democrat, i appreciate some of the words you said. guest: thank you. i will accept that as a compliment. caller: break. i have a brother, sister, and a

sister-yes -- sister-in-law, where support of of the republican party, and they all like rick santorum. i was amazed and now environmentalist for at mr. romney's comment about the trees in their right height. in oregon, we know that symmetry is because of clear-cutting, and that is a poor forest management ideal. i do not understand why no one jumped on this as either not understanding the timber industry, or as not understanding how bad clear- cutting could be. guest: of the press jumped on it, not for environmental reasons, but for being an odd comment to make. i did not interpret it as being a comment that made some

environmental point. i have not asked mitt romney, so why do not know for sure. host: the column also -- the caller mentioned rick santorum. in this article this morning and many other supporters, -- articles, santorum supporters want newt gingrich out. guest: i think santorum has a better case. he has emerged as the challenger to mitt romney. he goes back to the straw vote, or the beauty contest in missouri where it was just santorum against romney, and sent for him -- rick santorum beat him to 0-to-one. -- two-to-one.

host: this from twitter. guest: i think it matters a great deal. this election, there is a wider ideological divide than anytime since 1964. they disagree on taxes, entitlements, foreign policy -- there's exit more agreement on foreign policy than domestic policy issues. i think it makes an extraordinary difference. the parties we know are dead but -- are divided. we used to have liberal republicans, moderate republicans, and there are not many of those. one of the callers describe themselves as a conservative democrat. there are not many of those in washington d.c. -- washington, d.c. the parties are wider part in

2012 than they have been in years. host: is that a positive or a negative? guest: i think it is a positive. it clarifies a lot of things. voters know what they're getting when they vote for republicans and four democrats. they're quite different things. they could choose. used to be muddy when you head liberal republicans and conservative democrats. conservative democrats were strong in the self. -- the south. now the south has become extremely republican. host: the next call for fred barnes comes from richmond, virginia. caller: it is a pleasure and privilege to speak to you when you posted "the beltway boy is." -- "the beltway boy is."

just one correction, george allen is not the nominee yet. you are from "the weekly standard." you have been around washington for a long time. there has been talk about the republican establishment. who in your view is the republican establishment? i think it took eric cantor a long time to come out and back mitt romney, which he was always going to do, but i am interested in your view as to who the establishment is. guest: i did not think there is a republican establishment. i do not think there is a democratic is that this meant the, either, for that matter. even with a republican -- a democrat in the white house, would be the republicans in congress, the republican

prominent community in washington, which includes a tiny part of the media and many lobbyists? there might be a group of people who are at the top of the republican party, but they cannot influence what goes on in the party, what goes on in the primaries, who runs for the presidential nomination. and i know so many republicans, whether they are professional republicans, and they work in campaigns, or our lobbyists, who would love to see another candidate did in the republican race, whether it is mitch daniels, chris christie, or paul ryan, or marco rubio, even, from florida, they have had no success at all in producing another candidate that they like. i think that demonstrates that there is not an establishment, and there is a group of people

that some people might think is an establishment, but they have no influence. host: we were talking with the earlier guest, jackie speier, about the social discussion in this country. is it beneficial to republicans? guest: not the way it has turned out. if it is a debate about religious liberty, when the catholic church thinks they have to provide services against their beliefs, that she turns up well for republicans, but if the issue is on whether we should have contraceptives or not, or what rush limbaugh said about the young woman who testified before congress, that is a loser, and i think we've gotten into the latter category. it does not help republicans. host:, earlier we were talking about potential u.s. intervention in syria. guest: i do not think that is going to happen.

i think the response of the obama administration and other countries has been minimal, and certainly not successful. to get together in tunisia and issue a statement, that is not much. what is going on in syria is a blood bath, and people who want some kind of representative government are being slaughtered in city-after-city, and the response by the obama administration and the nato countries is the rebels are divided, we do not know who to do things for and so on. i think that is pathetic. they could speak much more loudly than they have, and there are so many things they can do short of selling its extending the hundred first airborne into damascus. -- see pending -- sending of

one of an first airborne into damascus. we do have agents in syria. i suspect we do, and we should. host: north carolina. you are on with the executive editor of "the weekly standard," fred barnes. caller: how come no reporter has ever asked barack obama if he is a socialist. can you do that? guest: i did not cover the white house. my chances are probably not good. he has not been asked that directly, but he has claimed he is not. he has joked about the idea that he has been a socialist. am i right about that? he has sort of dealt with that question, but not in response to a direct question as far as i recall.

host: is that a proper or a fair question? guest: i think it is for this reason. it might not deal with a specific issue, but it is something the public would like. i think you should ask some questions, certainly not all of them, but there is a chunk of the country that would like to see that asked. it is really the issue of the day that dominates the questions, whether it is syria, or something else. i kind of like those questions that are a little bent off-the- wall -- a little bit off-the- wall. host: what would happen if you were in the press conference and you said president obama, are you a socialist? would that be the end of your access? guest: it certainly would not help your chances of getting a

question of the next press conference host: the next call comes from georgia. -- conference. host: the next call comes from georgia. caller: when you put your money in the bank,, that can not create jobs, do you agree? -- that creates jobs, do you not, agree? let me ask you this. tell me how mitt romney's money in the cayman islands and the swiss bank accounts helps america? he always talks about how american he is. how was that going to help america? host: i want to show your upcoming come and "the weekly

standard." here is the title. guest: i did not think they care. let me address the question specifically. how you create jobs in america? what is the best way? the best way is simply private investment. if you have money in the cayman islands, and some of them might come back to the u.s., i do not know, but private investment is what we are lacking and it is the reason why we have a weak recovery. we have plenty of spending and consumption by the public. we have had plenty of spending by the government. the size of government is spending a much bigger percentage of gdp. what we have not had is private investment, and we need more of that, whether it comes from mitt

romney or anyone else. host: indiana. nathan, a republican. good morning. caller: i am wondering if your guest might be concerned about mr. santorum being involved with the jerry sandusky group from penn state. if he does get the job, will this be exploited? guest: i did not heard anything about this. host: my mother is pretty and what -- where are you getting this information? guest: my mother is involved. he was very involved with the jerry sandusky group. host: what is the group? g -- caller: the group that was molesting children.

host: let's leave it there. anne, you're on with fred barnes. caller: i have a personal concern that bothers me. one of my family members is supporting republicans purely on the abortion issue. he is a christian, and so is his wife. i wonder how much debt affects the partisanship in the united states, reaching that affects the partnership in the united states reject -- and that affects the partnership in the united states. i wonder if the republican party is using them. then you have rick santorum, who wants to impose christian the years. i want to see what your thoughts are about that. guest: i am a christian, and i

know many others, and nobody i know wants to impose christian beliefs of the country. you touched on something that is a factor in presidential and other politics, there are allowed a single-issue voters. and the biggest might be pro- life, anti-abortion boaters, and they tend to vote in the republican party -- voters, and tend to vote in the republican party because the republican party is the anti-abortion party, and the democratic party is the pro-choice party, or the pro-abortion party. that is the way it is. as it works out, there tend to be more pro-life anti-abortion voters on that one issue of the republican side, then there are voters against that issue on the other side. single-issue voters are a phenomenon we have always had,

and it will continue. i do not see anything wrong with it, but i can understand why you might argue with your friends. host: debra has this from twitter -- how can mr. barnes say the widening gulf between the republicans and democrats is a positive record no compromise is a bad thing. guest: i agree. we have had times where compromise does not work out. when democrats were in absolute strong control of washington in 2009 and 2010, they could pass what they wanted without compromising with republicans, and that is what they did. that is the temptation of having large majorities. we have not had that last year, and this year, and i do not think we will have that in 2013 with a new congress, and perhaps a new president, or the reelection of president obama. when you have a conservative

party and a democratic party, it clarifies the issues. people know what they're voting for. they know what the candidates are for. that is good, rather than to have this huge, mushy spillover on both sides, where you do not know what you are getting. i like the clarity. host: lou's e-mail . >> it is established that on any -- guest: it is establish that on any side where views are opposed, you will have a 60-vote margin. you will have to have 60 votes to get it through. remember the difficulty that democrats had for getting the health care program, but they got there. i am afraid that on a lot of

votes, that has become the practice in the senate. host: would you like to see a rule change? guest: no. the senate is supposed to be as was constitutionally established. the house are the people who want to do things. i do not know whether it was george washington that describe it but the senate is where the issues are cooled off. i think that works. host: the executive editor of the weekly standard and fox news contributor -- he has served as white house correspondent and senior editor for the new republic. he worked at the "baltimore sun" and that the "washington star." guest: right out of college. host: on our republican line, good morning. caller: good morning.

good morning, fred. i have been in low-income housing for over 35 years. i want to tell you there has been a mistake republicans have made. the democrats have nurtured an underclass as their voting block. we have people today that contributed nothing. they get their food paid for. they get their rent paid for. they get their piece paid for. the one thing president obama did was pass this health care -- if there 26 dushku -- 26-years- old, they get their health care paid for. our jails are full of these people who have been on welfare, children out of wedlock, generational welfare breaking the back of this country. they have a voting block and the republicans have let this slide for double tote -- too many

years. i hear nobody bringing this up. our jails -- host: we have the point. guest: i agree with the gist of what you are saying. at least so far as this -- dependency on the government is not good for american society and is not good for those who are dependent. you will remember welfare reform that was passed in 1990 -- in 1996 when bill clinton was president. it was an important reform, but there was a great deal of dependency. amongsts a book out b upper-middle-class whites that live uptown and lower that live in another. in that second neighborhood, you have a large amount of dependency on government programs and you have so many

social problems. more drug use. more dropouts. more divorces. more children born out of wedlock. that is a problem for america, no question about it. host: fred barnes refer to the most recent book by charles murray which was covered by "book tv." if you want to watch it, go to booktv.org. you can watch mr. murray talking about his book. pittsburgh, paul, a democrat. good morning. caller: u.s. for taking my call. -- thank you for taking my call. i wanted to speak about ron paul. nobody covers ron paul in the mainstream media, but he is the only candidate that wants to lower the deficit. he has proposed a budget that blowers the deficit. the media will not cover and the

voters do not seem to understand this either. the deficit is the biggest problem we have. we have $80 billion going out of our country every month to pay the interest on our debt. guest: there was a time when ron paul did not get much media coverage. now, he gets a lot. i read stories about him every day. there was one this morning i read when i got up. he was in 20 televised debates among candidates said he was a factor in those. ron paul 's views have become well known. he says he can cut one trillion dollars out of the federal budget his first year. he wants to get rid of the the reserve. he has very controversial isolationist views on foreign policy so i think he would've had a complaint a few months ago

about ron paul being ignored by the media, but he has forced his way in. host: here is a story in the "washington journal" -- policies convention fight as best bet. i do not know if you saw the story this morning about legalizing marijuana. jim tweets -- would mr. barns support legalization of marijuana? guest: i like pat robertson. i disagree with him on this. legalizing marijuana would be a huge mistake for american society. marijuana is, i think, a gateway drugs. the more serious problems with cocaine and heroin and other things the -- i am opposed to it. xm -- i'm surprised that pat robertson has taken this position. host: susan is a republican.

caller: my question is concerning this upcoming election. in an article that was it "the wall street journal" on march 5. -- and i wish that you at the washington standard and also at fox news would really give us the public some in-depth coverage. on march 15, the justice department will have to reveal -- they will have to reveal the 600 pages talking about their misconduct. and how we did this two weeks before the election, which gave the democrats of the election and stevens was later -- he had

been set aside. these are the same people that are now going after the states that are trying to control voter fraud. guest: this was the justice department during the bush administration, for one thing. the point is good because this was an outrage by prosecutors in the justice department against senator stevens. one of the things that is mentioned is that senator stevens would have voted against obamacare. the president obama's health- care provider. -- program. that would not have gotten the 60th vote. the world would have been different as a result of that. aevens'replacement is democrat. he voted for the health-care plan. i will be interested, as you will, in what is in a 500 pages about the conduct of the prosecutors. and what they have been accused

of, of course, is not turning over a beneficial evidence -- beneficial evidence to the lawyers, which they are required to do. host: the lead editorial this morning -- guest: that is a little overwrought. i do agree that -- the key words that eric holder said were that we are in a war. he has not said that before. if we are in a war, there is a different standard of what you can do. we are in a war. there is a war against america by radical jihadists. is lummis. amare -- islamists.

an american was killed in yemen and possibly more by the drones. in wartime, america can do that. we are authorized to do that and i am surprised that eric holder went so far and use the word work, which is the key word. host: greenville, rhode island. bill, you are on. caller: hello. in 19 -- there was a caller talking earlier. in 1999, trent lott move the bill to the senate giving $2 million to every manufacturer who move to turn up. -- who moved to turn up. that was not a job creator. i do not have -- i do not know how you feel, but that is not the way to go. host: you said every american

manufacturer got $2 million to move to china? caller: exactly. guest: i missed that. i am not familiar with it. host: i want to let you know that the unemployment -- more people saw unemployment benefits last week. more people applied for unemployment benefits according to the labor department. weekly applications increased by 8000 to a seasonally adjusted three 62,000. -- 362,000 -- the highest since january. host: on our democrats' line, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for allowing me to speak. i have a comment and then a question for the guests. . i believe that many americans are misinformed about obamacare.

i voted for president obama because of his willingness to actually put his whole entire job on the line to get people who access to medical care who do not have itv. they include our self-employed, our small business people, and a our workers who have -- - mcdonald workers, our walmart workers, people changing our tires and working on our cars. other people who mostly have to have two jobs equivalent in order to pay their bills every month. that is not the people who are not working who are permanently on though -- needing help. guest: what was the question? there are a lot of problems with obamacare, i believe. one is the mandate that requires every american to purchase health insurance. it is not like buying auto insurance.

you do not have to have bought an insurance unless you have a car. a lot of people do not. it is different from auto insurance. the mandated what -- the mandate is one of the things that the supreme court will hear about in a 5.5 hours of oral argument later this month. they will have to rule before they leave town at the end of june. i suspect they will. it will be hard for them to dodge the mandate. look, i believe that our health care system is very good and lots of reforms are needed, but not ones that give the government so much power over doctors and hospitals and so on. they have a lot. this would take it much further. the mandate is a huge constitutional problem. host: this morning, this charge -- big spenders.

$31 million is spent so far in this race. newt gingrich $60 million. the superpac spent $7.8 million in those same states for these three gentlemen. the rise of the superpac, is this bad? guest: it is and necessary. all you have to do is allow what these people -- these people to give money to the candidates rather than having an amount that an individual can give to a candidate in the primary and then another one in the general election. if you get rid of those limits, and jessica my every constitution has to be disclosed publicly -- every kutcher in -- and just say every contribution has to be disclosed publicly.

host: what do you think of the koch brothers taking over the cato institute? guest: they have a strong influence. kato is the libertarian lobby. i know many people work there. they have tremendous scholars and experts and i could run down a list of them because i know a great number of them and admire the work they do. the koch brothers are very much interested in politics. they support americans for prosperity. you know, i will have to say that the fight over -- at the cato, i am fuzzy about what they're fighting about. i do not think it is ideological disagreements between the folks at cato and the koch brothers to have been the founders of them. host: what do you think about

the strategy in demonizing somebody like a the koch brothers? guest: you know, i am not for it. on the other hand, we have always had this in american politics. you know, i have read a lot lately that politics in the 1790's when you had alexander hamilton and john adams on the other side and james madison and thomas jefferson and you had a ferocious press. papers would represent one or the other. what we have now -- the 1850's and many other periods. this is not new. it will continue because we have free speech in america. host: last call comes from maryland. mary, you are on our republican line. caller: aye. you for taking my call. it appears that romney is winning because he is using

his money to tear down opponents with negative advertisements. his it is have a problem with his past tense. his runningcare was a problem. -- romneycare was a problem. this will make it hard for him against obama. if obama -- romney is the nomination, obama will tear him down with the negative advertisements here he will tell it -- tear him a part with the money. guest: that would have been against any candidate. that is what goes on in politics. there is a reason why we see so many negative advertisements. it worked. ronnie's campaign has a lot more money. it is better organized. -- romney 's campaign has a lot more money. it is better organized. that is his strength. once your that republicans have is that he has used these advertisements to attack his opponent so ferociously that it will be a drawback to getting

the party together after one of them probably is the nomination. -- the nominee. id will make it tougher, but i think republicans will come together because they agree on one thing and that is the feeding president obama. host: fred barnes, something we have not talk about, but that is the recall of scott walker. guest: that has a few significances. one, public-sector unions are elaborate -- their retirement pay it, if those are going to be curbed, i think scott walker needs to overcome his a recall effort. if they are not, if unions prevail and they think this is a national issue, this is the most important election in the

country, if the unions win, we are going to have a hard time for america and in particular state and local governments coming to grips with their spending problems. there are driving cities into bankruptcy. host: this is "washington journal." we have been talking with fred barnes. coming up next, a discussion on hacking and cyber security. >> it is 9:17 eastern. jobless numbers show more people applying for unemployment benefits last week. the labor department says weekly applications increased by 8000 to an adjusted 362,000. that is the highest since january. that overall level is still low enough to suggest that the job market is strengthening. the word this morning that air fares are expected to remain high for most of this decade according to the federal aviation a ministration. the forecast says airline traffic is expected to travel to

-- double what capacity shrinks. the faa's analysis predicts the number of miles flown by passengers to increase by $815 billion to just over 1.5 trillion in 2013. power, airline flights' grids are being disrupted by particles from the sun. scientists say the largest solar storm in five years is in their words, hitting us right in the nose. there are the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> this weekend, derick two voice to watch the to son -- there are two ways to watch the book tv festival. jeffrey rosen, forensic science, politics, and mexico's

drug war. the environment, the american west, and at 5:30, studying the brain. throughout the weekend, look for coverage streaming live on booktv.org. saturday at noon and sunday at 2:30. like this weekend on c-span2. -- live this weekend on c-span2. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we have a reporter with bloomberg news -- michael riley he cover cyber security. what happened yesterday? who did the fbi arrest? guest: the fbi arrested basically five people who are key hackers in the group anonymous. anonymous has been wreaking havoc in cyberspace 42 years. they have embarrassed the fbi

and the cia. they send investigation. they have got one of them -- yesterday, they surprised everybody enrolled them out. host: who are the two people -- take davis and jeremy hammond? guest: jeremy hammond is a chicago hacker. these guys all go by nicknames. we do not know their identities. they hide behind these all minded entities. nicknames. what happened this week basically is that the cover came off. we got a picture of them. jeremy hammond is a hacker in chicago. supposedly, we talked to some of his neighbors and he plays a banjo. he is corky. he also is a very serious hacker. he was responsible for the stratford hack.

they hacked into it and they stole about 5 million e-mails from online. host: can you tell us about this new information? guest: there are lots of different subgroups. there are serious hackers in this group. they went on a rampage doing a lot of tax -- hacks. they took the ca's website offline. they hacked into fox news. they did a lot of things that were very high profile and publicize. it turns out that the leader was a 28-year-old father of two living in new york.

he did a lot of his stuff in his apartment and his real name is hector. host: the fbi had guest: an inside person yes. -- host: the fbi had an inside person? guest: yes. these guys can hide behind a lot of tools. in this case, hector made a couple of mistakes. they tracked him down and arrested him in june. they charged him with about 10 different felonies. he would have spent 120 years in prison. is it you can cooperate -- they said, you can corporate. he has been giving the fbi information about anonymous and the inside route. this week, it baalke man in the open. really shocked anonymous.

it really shocked the people. shocked the people who have been secure is that what -- who had been sure that law enforcement could not get them. host: how major is this fight against hacking? guest: in terms of anonymous, this is important. they are an interesting group. in terms of hackers, one of the things that is new he -- that is unique is this is a political movement as much as a hacking movement. a lot of hacking goes on by criminals in the ukraine, russia, cyber china. these arrests will not affect that, but it will affect anonymous an anonymous's to publicly rick cavett. host: we are going to put the numbers up on the screen. we are talking about hacking. our guest is michael riley -- a

reporter with bloomberg news. how long have you been covering this issue? guest: about a year and a half for bloomberg. host: you have spoken with people in anonymous? guest: i have. host: how did you get guest: that: they have a couple of people. -- host: how did you get that? guest: they have a couple of people willing to come out of the shout -- the shadows and talk to me via phone or e-mail. i had a couple of online chats with people who are more in the shadows. they will not usually get on the phone, but they will get on line. they will do sort of checked conversations, either g-chat or others. so, through contacts with anonymous's media folk, i hooked

up with a couple of the hackers who are in the shadows. host: just to go back to the media, that party claim to do these things and they are known to have done these hacks. how can they come out of the shadows? they are media spokesman. what is the protection from not getting arrested? guest: in the case of those talking actively, they will make a fine distinction and say, they did not take part in hacking. that is probably true. this particular person is a former journalist. the truth is, the fbi also raided his apartment and his mother's. bases his computers and telephones. -- bases his computers and telephones. they're looking for evidence of conspiracy. host: does anonymous have lawyers? guest: yes.

anonymous, on mike a lot of hacker groups and cyber criminals, they think of themselves as a social movement. they're trying to create change in government in the way the government is behaving. as a result, they have a lot of falling. -- following in different aspects of society. amongst those are lawyers who have been willing to help. host: do jake davis and jeremy hamid know each other? -- hammond know each other? guest: there is something called an irc, which is a chat room. they have public channels. they have channels anyone can get on and then they have private where they will do more confidential negotiations. host: how did they know that they shared this political philosophy?

they shared the ability and they are not fbi informants? guest: there is a sense of -- to begin with, of a shared group of skills and a shared group of it is -- ideas. anonymous will say that there are thousands of people who would not call themselves members, but part of the group. among those are probably several dozens of members of law-enforcement, who are disguised. they are portraying themselves as people who are interested in the cause, but are trying to get information. that is why they have this sort of multilayer communication channel where there are open channels and then after months and months, sometimes years, you can get into some of the inner circles. the people they arrested this week were key members of the inner circle. host: what is the estimate for the economic damage done by anonymous? guest: that is interesting.

the damage is probably not that high. damage, specifically, members of certain what size they have packed. that has been embarrassing. they hacked fox. they hacked stratford. in stratford to techies, they stole much as e-mails but credit-card numbers. in stratford, you by reports. there are a lot of people who gave credit card numbers. supposedly, there ran a $700,000 in the legal charges. that is one economic -- supposedly, they ran up $700,000 in the legal charges. that is one economic impact. host: hackers take 1 billion years as banks blame their clients. guest: there are different kinds

of hackers. anonymous does not think of themselves as criminals. they're not after money or credit card numbers, but there are a lot of people who are. one of the things that make cyberspace in secure is there are a lot of people who are making a lot of money stealing credit card numbers and information that can be valuable. in the case of the story last year, the $1 billion was a particular scheme where hackers cracked into the computers of small businesses, transferred money from bank accounts of those businesses to their own accounts. that money was picked up by money mules and sent to the ukraine or russia. if you think about it, the overall total for bank robberies in 2010 was over $30 million. host: in fact, here is a headline in this morning 's "new york times" --

these guys are not terrorists, necessarily? guest: they do not think of themselves that way. when the fbi talked about terrorists, their word about the ability to wreak havoc on crucial systems in the u.s. and other countries through hacking systems and basically is screwing things up. you can do things like hack into a water system and stop the water. you can hack electrical -- plans. nation states are the ones we're worried about because they have a high level of skills. the possibility that terrorists could do the same thing is a real said. -- threat. host: does the fbi you anonymous and lulz as terrorists? guest: certainly criminals. what they do in terms of breaking into computers and computer networks -- anonymous

does this as social protest. it is still a criminal act. host: michael riley is our guest. he is with bloomberg news. we are talking about cyber security and hacking. joe is first up. go ahead. caller: i do not know if this is stupid or not, but when the internet was invented, how come the government did not have their own internet? and the second question is, do you not think that the punishment is way too late? should they not make it where -- i am not talking about china where they kill you, but make the sentence is different. thank you. guest: first in terms of why the government does not have its own internet -- the internet starts off as a small government tall experiment.

if he will. -- government experiment. if you will. this goes into a university steerer and in tibet commercial see your -- into a university sphere and then a commercial sphere. they're talking about having two internets. we may be circling back. in terms of sentencing, you could be right. for a lot of these crimes, the sentence can be very light. there are possibilities of some very high sentences. i mention that the group was threatened with 122 years for various hacking. i think that was faced teller number when the fbi talked to him about it. i think that is why he became an informant.

host: is this the biggest bust? guest: hacking is hard to get a hold of. a lot of these guys are criminals in russia or the ukraine were there are no way that the fbi can actually lay hands on them. others are spies in china. the odds of getting the people who are doing a lot of this is very, very slim. anonymous, besides being very public has created a lot of embarrassing incidents as. one of them, for example, they hacked into the e-mail of an irish law enforcement official who was involved in an international investigation of anonymous. they got the code for a call with the fbi and other officials were going to be talking about the investigation. they listened in, take it, and then put it on the internet. that was a there is in for the fbi. the fact that they got these guys was not just an issue of -- they took it personally.

in one sense, and shutting down what has been a very public form of hacking and in some very embarrassing incidents is for line for some, this is a big deal. host: michael riley, this report this morning -- china is testing cyber attack capabilities. what is the role of china in cyber hacking? is it state sanction? guest: states are involved. it is a powerful tool. one of the things that there is a lot of fear about is that states can wreak havoc when conflicts arise in ways that are unknown up to this point. there is a lot of activity going on in the u.s. that people are worried may be willing to nation states. trying to implant devices into

computer networks in critical systems and those devices than can be used if there is a conflict. so, for example, you can shut down the electricity on the east coast. you can turn off the sewer system in new york. these are all actual possibilities. the fact that the nation states may be planting things in systems is concerning. host: go ahead, ran the. -- randy. caller: recently, a drone landed in iran. that strikes me as a case of hacking without using the internet. but using the microwave signals that control visa pilotless war crabs. did we billions ion this, not? is the government worried about

their own ability -- that their computers are vulnerable? i will listen. host: you are right. the drum case was an embarrassment for officials. iran has talked about how they did it. this was not hacking, iran says there is a vulnerability in the navigation system of what was a very highly classified drum. it was itself a drone. -- a stealth drone. they use a flaw in the gps guidance system to get them drone to land. u.s. officials have not confirmed that that is what happened, but the iranians took drone on television and it looked like the real thing. i think that the vulnerability of u.s. military computers is a big concern and a great example.

the air force has a great example -- they are four sets of problems with the computer -- the air force has problems with the drone over afghanistan. they found meler in those systems. that gives access to foreign entities. that is a big threat. over the last 10 years, some of the biggest targets of hacking have been computer systems for the u.s. military, air force, the pentagon. host: cyber security and an -- cyber security is an issue that congress is interested in. we are joined by your fellow bloomberg contributor. what is the status? caller: congress is coming to some agreement on this. there are a few bills that are moving right now. the major one is -- was

introduced by joe lieberman from connecticut. senator reid said he plans to bring the bill to the floor as soon as possible. there is a competing bill that senate republicans, led by senator mccain and senator hutchison, have introduced. there are a lot of similarities within both of those bills. there are some fundamental differences that have divided senators. on the house side, there are several bills in the house that are floating around. for the most part, the house leadership is waiting to see what happens in the senate. host: mr. strohm, when you look at the issues we have been discussing, china and testing cyber attack capabilities, fbi director warns congress about terrorist attacking -- do the

bills address those issues? caller: mike made some good points. for the first time, the u.s. government identified china and russia as being behind hacking attacks. this was at the end of last year. this came out of the u.s. intelligence agencies. there has been a growing concern on the hill about the capabilities of other countries, of spies, or general hackers to be able to compromise u.s. government networks or the networks that are operated by private companies that are in the -- that run electrical grids in telecommunication networks. all of that. the bills are in debt coming up with the capability, improving the ability of both the government and private companies

to prevent networks from hacking attacks -- protect networks from hacking attacks whether they're coming from nation states or criminal gangs or individual hackers. specifically, the senate bill that senate democrats are supporting at this point would actually place new requirements on private companies to better defend their networks. that is where the division comes, with the senate republicans. it is a classic issue of the to regulate or not to regulate. senate republicans are saying that it would be better to offer incentives to protect networks such as being able to get access to classified intelligence from the u.s. government about cyber threat. and giving companies legal protections if they are working with the government.

they would be protected from lawsuits, if there is any attack against their networks. senate democrats and the obama administration are pushing legislation that would go further. that would actually create a new regulatory framework in place requirements on companies. host: chris strohm, thank you. by the way, cyber security is our topic this week on our "communicators" program. we sat down with senator lieberman in center colin -- senator colin. that will air this saturday at 6:30 p.m. eastern time. here is just a little bit of senator colin. >> this is something that cries out for action. if we adjourn without taking any action on cyber security, shame on us because it is inevitable

with the number of daily attacks, whether from nation states or terrorist groups or heck kearse -- hackers. we're going to face a serious cyber attack. i, for one, do not want to look back and say all of the warnings were there, why did we not act? host: that interview with senators lieberman and collins air 630 eastern. -- airs 6:30 eastern. host: chicago, you are on with our guests. go ahead. caller: yes. i would like to know about the georgia state -- why they have not said anything about that because it has been two or three

years ago. they have not said anything about cyber attacks. guest: that is an interesting example. there were a couple of incidents as a few years ago there represented what -- that represented what looked like the for cyber attack. they looked like the networks of those countries, critical networks, but the websites were set down by -- shut down by a massive cyber attacks. they created chaos. it looked like a tax emanated from russia. that is hard to trace. one of the most difficult things is coming up -- figuring out where the attack is coming from. after a lot of research and analysis afterward, it looked like they were coming from russia. i mean, what you had was the

possibility that these two countries were attacked by a nation state. havetonia's case, they asked nato to consider that equal to a physical attack. if a member of nato is attacked by another nation state to be a cyber as opposed to war plans for bombing, nato should respond. this creates complicated issues and international fears and military figures. host: george, please go ahead with your question for michael riley about cyber security. caller: good morning. very informative show. mr. strohm answered most of my questions whether we are writing enough laws. another question i had --

anonymous is in it for political reasons, not so much money. i am one of the veterans that -- we got our names and addresses hacked a while back. i do not know if they ever caught those guys. could they go into medical records and miss around and heard a person that way? -- hurt a person that way? is there a reward for whistleblowing? can i give a shout out to chris blair for sheriff here. host: you just did. [laughter] guest: good question. the thing about cyber security and hacking is the possibilities are endless. they can get into hospitals and into medical records. hospitals are a common target because there are a lot of personal data point that are valuable.

there are so security numbers, addresses, financial data, and we have seen that is what they have been going after. once things get online, it is are to protect them. what is going on now in the american health system is that a lot of medical records are being put on line. there is a possibility that those records then become vulnerable to hackers in terms of access and if it do you think up -- and if you think about this thing, people are most worried about the possibility that stuff can be manipulated in a way that specifically harms individuals. think about changing a blood type and the impact that could have. the idea that with this move to put medical records of mine, you have a scary possibility because those records become vulnerable. that is interesting. i will go back to laws. congress is doing a lot of

consideration of things that they hope can address this issue. people will tell you that one of the problem is that the internet is insecure. you can have a lot of technology on networks to try to protect them, but hackers have almost always found ways around that. even with some of all laws under consideration, that not stop the problem. the possibility of getting into these networks in the future, the only thing you can really do is read-and engineer the internet, which -- re-engineer the internet, which it was created for the government. it researchers and universities -- that was assumed to be a security unit team. -- a secure community. people are thinking about how to put protection in after it has grown so much. very antiquated. complicated. host: work on internet has been

underway for some time. that was conceived to provide separate backbone for industry, government, and research. guest: there are lots of it is out there that that security and elements of security -- add security and elements of security. there is an idea that you can create separate internet. s. this creates fundamental and securities. you have countries that have tried to rethink this problem a little bit. one of them is china. greek fire wall of china. this sets up a lot of proxy servers, which analyzes information coming into the country. the idea is that the chinese officials want to make sure they can control that information. it is a form of censorship. it is a way to re- architect the world. australia is another place that

has created a fire wall around the country so that all data going in and all data leaving australia is much more carefully controlled than in other countries. one way to solve a security problem with this possibility of shutting down some of the great things about the internet, which is free flow of communication information. host: michael riley is a reporter with bloomberg. he has done some exciting things. he has covered drug kingpins and when america, immigrant smuggling on the southwest border and russian and chinese cyber criminals. baltimore, laura. go ahead. caller: high. you for taking my call. i have two questions. is the dmb a low-level security?

are macs say for the pcs? i think checking can be bad and dangerous, but i do admire anonymous for hacking into the vatican because of their refusal to address sexual molestation of women and children. i think that was the right thing. that might not be a popular opinion, but that is how i feel. guest: macs are probably somewhat more secure the pcs. only because if you are a bad guy, you write malware that can break into computers and give hackers access to data. they write more of that forpcs because there are more pcs. macs have grown in popularity so as the software that attack them -- the vatican hack it is interesting. i think your opinion is that it

was the right thing to do. interesting thing about hacktivism is, they were hacking for political motivation. a lot of the motivation was shared by a lot of people. it was saw by others. it had a political purpose, which is different than what cyber criminals to. that is different than what cyber spies do. it changed the face of cyber security because it took an they used to be -- an act that used to be a criminal act to galas and information and turn it into a political act. -- to access information and turn into a political act. host: this wireless make hackie easier? guest: mobility, the fact that we have smartphones with a lot of data and information -- we

have all our contacts on them. the question of the security of mobile phones is a huge issue among security professionals. i was at a conference where two well nonprofessionals hacked into the iphone -- wekk-known professionals hacked into the iphone. they send a link and it looked like an email. they take all of the and -- all of the conversations and forwarded them to a server to listen in to all of them. they said it to three weeks to figure out how to do it. the problems of the insecurity of mobile phones and devices is a big deal. host: what do you mean by professionals? guest: these guys are cyber security professionals, tried to point out flaws in the technology in order to get the manufacturers to try and address them. as opposed to the bad guys who are finding flaws and technology

to exploit them. host: does the government hire hackers? guest: yes. again, there are certain levels of skills that you do not learn and universities. a lot of guys pick them up by hanging out on forums and going to conferences. this is a very technical skill set, but not something universities teach. as a result, when looking for people who can help them defend their own networks and attack others, they look in those communities for people with really special skills. host: richard, clear lake oaks california, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? i would like to ask a question. with everything going on with the government -- we hire some of the best hackers, right?

how do we know that the government is not doing a lot of hacking themselves? guest: in fact, the government is doing packing. this is a question of what tacking they are doing. -- what hakcing they are doing. -- hacking they are doing. in the old days, you used to have to have a humans by. now, that is so much easier by the fact that government put information online. our government hacks all the time. it is part of spy game. there is a question of privacy about how this vulnerability in technology allows the government to do sophisticated kinds of monitoring and surveillance through some of these means.

right now, you basically have to get a court order to use -- to do the kind of surveillance these people are worried about. in germany, they allowed a judge to grant access to somebody's computer. without the permission of the computer user. law enforcement can examine the files on a computer. this raises a lot of interesting and complicated privacy questions when the government uses the same to was that the bad guys do. host: brady is in north carolina. go ahead. caller: thank you. mr. riley, when i was in the cold war, of the greatest threat was nuclear threat. we were not concerned about who had the weapons. it was about who would use it

first and start the domino effect. since we are talking about iran, which is the greatest threat to america? the cyber threat 0 iran? -- or iran? guest: that is a hard question. u.s. intelligence officials and security officials will say that nuclear weapons just because of their ability to do such pest damage and to kill some many people the greatest threat. there is a question about the use of cyber as a growing national threat. one of the things that came out recently is the arrest of a venezuelan official who was supposedly involved in a cyber attacks against the u.s. think about this. a country like venezuela, an

adversary in many ways, may be plotting a cyber attack against the u.s.. it is very hard to determine who is attacking you. things can happen. they can affect infrastructure. they can affect siri systems and you as it might be hard to tell that -- they might affect various systems in the u.s. it might be hard to tell who is doing it. the thing that keeps countries acting against the u.s. is the possibility we will attack back. if you cannot determine the attacker, it makes taking the risk perhaps more likely. one of the things that happened last year is that the pentagon, for the first time, released guidance on this issue, in particular. they said that they would consider a cyber attack against

the u.s. as the same as a physical attack. they would, if they could determine who was the attacker, strike back with kinetic means. with bombers and fighters. host: any estimate about how much the government spends to prevent hacking and how much private businesses spent? guest: a lot of money. they spend billions and billions of dollars a year. on technology that is meant to defend networks. the problem is, and this is part of the crisis, is that we find ourselves in a situation in which it could be that a lot of that money is not very well spent. i will give you one example. anti virus things that go on. companies spend millions of dollars every year to put anti virus on their networks.

the way a lot of the technology is developed is the bad guys have figured out a way -- antti by risk detect signatures on malware. if that shows up on a computer, the anti virus cleans it up. the new malware changes the signature so it is impossible to catch with anti virus. if bad guys are a step ahead of the companies in the people trying to defend networks. host: knowing what you do, how much online work do you do? guest: i do a lot of work out my. i take precautions that other people might not. a simple one you can do to protect your e-mail is to use googled. your to e-mail -- your gmail,