then mittcal columnist tom baxter looks at the influence of southern politics in u.s. elections. then secretary of special operations talks"washington jou. -- "washington journal" is next. host: good morning. rick santorum winning in kansas. this week, it is the battle of the south, primary tuesday. alabama and mississippi. the white house hosting the british prime minister.

an ncaa basketball tournament and then an official dinner at the white house. we're going to take a look at some of the morning headlines. including, the thoughts of robert keeton on whether or not america's on the decline. our phone lines are open. our question, is america on the decline? we would hear what he has to say on his new book in "the washington post." first, some news from illinois and the latest primary with just about a week and a half away. "gop race tight in illinois " t."

newt gingrich at 12%. ron paul at 7%. again, primary's this upcoming tuesday. robert has featured his new book ." "the world america made cot he points out the presidency most of their reading in private. if the president happens to receive by reading trashy novels, we do not find out about it. when white house officials said to call attention to a book, there's often an implicit message or theme.

what should we make of the fact that president obama has recently been reading robert kagan's book, "the world america made." here's a portion of the interview. [video clip] >> americans have a sense of their exceptional as a. in truth, you know. there is national pride in all countries. nobody talks said that in other countries. it is striking. this kind of constant self- appraisal. this constant sense of greatness. it really is remarkable. one of the things i point out in the book, america is content -- is consulate talk about our way of life.

if you ask an american soldier with they are doing overseas, they freely say they aren't fighting or defending "our way of life." they would speak of doing things for their country, for their borders, to defend the nation itself. this is a sense that they are transcendent. host: robert kagan in the interview last sunday. he roche, i am an american not by accident. i voted and became an american. i love this country. when i look at the world today, the strong winds of technological change and global it makes me, nervous.

americans seem unable to grasp the magnitude and the changes. most americans opera on the assumption that the u.s. is still number one. our question, is america on the decline? yes, or no. if you say yes, the number is 202.737.0001. if you say no, the number is 202-737-0002. michael is joining us on our line that says yes, america is on the decline. good morning. caller: how are you? good morning. when an empire thrives, and empire false. the united states -- britain started with the war and ended nearly bankrupt in 1945. we are nearly bankrupt.

between our two wars, now we are facing a deficit and an almost massive depression. we are on the decline. host: ok. thank you for your call. good morning, he says we are not on the decline. caller: i totally disagree with that man from new york. i think president obama has done a good job. i think things are getting better -- the economy's getting better. the stock market is doing better. as far as is now to about britain, britain was baker at the end of world war ii -- was bankrupt at the end of world war ii -- that is a ridiculous analogies. host: in "the new york times" --

i always say, taiwan. it is simple. a very bearing rock in a typhoon-latency with no natural resources to live off of it -- it even has to import sand and gravel from china for construction -- get as the fourth largest financial reserves in the world. it has mined its 23 million people. i always tell my friends in taiwan, you're the lucky people in the world. how did you get so lucky? you have no oil, no iron ore. just some coal and natural gas. just because we're to have developed, your people skills, you are truly -- how to get so lucky?

there is this headline. "who is going to win the nation's 21st century? ."e nation's cot caller: good morning. good choice there. we are in a decline. it comes down to one word -- debt. is is really bad and getting worse every day and every month. i would like to ask all of our little for -- our liberal friends, what went wrong with that you? what went wrong in greece, spain, portugal, italy? it is going on in a majority of our 50 states. the public pensions -- my goodness. $3 trillion in promises that are not going to come true.

while our presence is bending over backwards to protect these public pensions at every level, he is cutting our current- serving military. there are solutions. we are seeing republican governors in ohio, michigan, new jersey, performing miracles. turning around budget deficits into surpluses. they are going after pensions. another solution is in the field of energy. we will see the gas prices this summer. our president killed the xl keystone pipeline. host: we will stick with the former ceo of the shale oil company and the impact. thank you for the call. next up is tony, from northridge, california. you say no, america is not on the decline. why? caller: i do not know what the

previous caller was talking about. it seemed like a lot of grumbling about nothing. no, i do not think america is on the decline. i think it was under the previous administration. with the war over with and the president implementing programs to pay for that war, the blank check that congress gave president bush, i think we are on the uphill now. we can go abroad and we're not shunned or anything like that. we're not afraid to go abroad. i had friends who went abroad during the bush and ministration who said it was terrible -- people hated america. people that say, around the world, republicans that say the americas on the decline, they do

not know if they're talking about that. host: thank you. whether or not america's on the decline, based in part on the new book by robert kagan. highlights from that interview coming up in just a moment. from our twitter page. . "the chicago tribute" -- it is a syndicated column. you can check out what he writes. good morning, welcome to the program. caller: good morning. america is not, unequivocally on the decline. it is strange to me that when obama became president, all

republicans can think of is negative stuff appeared the economy is getting better. he bailed out the automotive companies. could they are profiting. why are they contingent to always see something negative? they are even trying to change the voting law. first time in history you have to show an i.d. host: thank you for the call. from "the los angeles times." she writes --

again, the perspective of rosa brooks. it is available on-line. we're joined from san francisco -- good morning to you. caller: am i on now? host: go-ahead. caller: first of all, would not have national health care like they do in canada. when they are born, the have national health care and dental care. we have the highest crime rate in the world. more murders in this country. also, super pacs and the special interests and the political action committees.

they own congress. they own our government. how can you say they do not? these are billionaires. everything -- this country is run like a plutocracy in the roman days. the elite, the people who on the money, run it. open your eyes. host: thank you for the call. from our twitter page. the "q&a" program we did with robert kagan did air last week. mitt romney and rick santorum. >[video clip] >> when was america last great? >> america still is great.

>> it is important to keep america great. .> we're convinced the economy, the economic structure made the economy great. it had to be a system of government. host: the "q&a" program and that video. is america in the decline? there is a debate behind the republican search for a winning candidate. these debaters put it in the form of a polite academic question. is america in decline? it is restricted so far to the small, but influential magazines read by the class. when a new magazine called for a symposium, the editors were surprised that they tap into the polls. the headline asking, bluntly, is

america over? in the words of suzanne fields. this question getting a lot of attention on a number of different fronts. robert kagan was featured last week on this network. his review this morning in "the washington post." joining me from washing, d.c. good morning. caller: i do not believe we are in decline. it is relative in the sense that our country is about to catch up. it is also education. if we reinvest in education, we will be ok. right now, we do get the most nobel prizes. countries like singapore and taiwan, they like our ships. they like our presence there. we invest in ourselves and our

technology, our human resources. try not to fight. i think we are not in a decline. host: thank you for the call. we're checking with many of you are saying on our twitter page as well. you can also join us on facebook. this is from one of our viewers about why the u.s. is in very terrible space, but less-worse than any other the words of we go back to clarence page from "the chicago tribune" website. is america in decline? no way, says president obama. but some grim news reports on our educational gap. some surprising good news/bad news. the gap between white and black

suits has shrunk, the gap between rich and poor have grown. -- white and black students has a strong, the gap between rich and poor have grown. caller: good morning. i do believe that america is on decline. for the reason the first caller gave. empire's rise and fall. it is time to fall. the united states is unwilling to invest in all of its citizens. all you have to do is take a look of the schools around the nation. they look like fortresses -- that is not a nation best in all this children. look at how many people are in jail? no other nation puts as many of its own citizens in jail. particularly, for petty drug

reasons that really ought to be medical issues, not criminal issues. so, yes, i do believe the united states is on decline. host: thank you for the call. caucuses in kansas and wyoming, also in u.s. territories outside the continental u.s. in kansas, with one and a percent sign reporting, rick santorum getting -- with 100% reporting, rick santorum getting 51%. newt gingrich third, ron paul fourth. 44% for mitt romney. that translates to 577 votes. a very small turnout in wyoming. rick santorum getting 360 votes, or 27%. of course, what counts, our delegates.

right now, mitt romney has 454 delegates. compared to 217 for rick santorum. newt gingrich has 107. ron paul has 47. yesterday, in springfield missouri, rick santorum saying that with the economy improving, foreign policy may be the dominant issue. he suggested that a nuclear- armed iran may emerge and is an import issue in the 2012 election. he said that foreign policy experience making the most qualified for the presidency. rick santorum argued the economy may be taking a backseat to foreign policy. again, that from inside "the national journal." bridget is joining us.

good morning. is america on decline? caller: no. is is not. what is necessary is for the nation to take a new direction. for someone to come along who has an idea of what is better than being offered today. there is such a thing called a modest proposal which suggests a new proposal. host: thank you. according to democrats aren't washington state, saying to the courts, he is working on behalf of washing and state and has never forgot where he came from. he is the son of the pacific northwest. his and a champion of our national resources while pushing for clean energy. he is stepping down from congress and running for governor of washington state.

joining from virginia, is america on decline? caller: good morning, folks. i think it is leaning towards that way. when people did not vote the last election, i think it was 14%, 15%. there's been this attitude in journalism of promoting this argument about the congress, which was intense negative bite maybe one or two -- which was detonated hy one or two votes. in congress, the government as a lifeguard. we need rules and regulation.

walking on the right side of the road in the sidewalk, and health care. there were two -- in 1999, there were two big court decisions against health care. and of the liens against people who had health care to cover the people who did not have health care. and you do not have the draft, which is why you had those chicago riots. the lottery i one was a winner in 1969 when they had the draft. we were just lucky. at the chicago democratic convention, that was why. people were getting drafted. they saw this realism of what the wars were doing. one of the other reasons is

that -- for the defense department in 2020, what they had a 99, came out in 2000, the future trend would be an increase in the haves and have- nots. host: are we better country today than we were in 1968 and that 69? -- and 1969? caller: in 1968 and 1969, we were kind of lucky. host: ok. thank you for the call. i'm going to go back to robert kagan and his review in "the washington post." one of his main arguments is that the united states is not in decline.

again, the review of the book. there was one quote highlighted in "the washington post" i will read to you. so, we are basing this as our question this morning. whether or not you think america is in decline. we're joined from san diego. good morning. welcome to the conversation. caller: thank you. good morning. i think america is not on the decline. i thought that our way of life

was coming to an end, but now i am 9 inches and i'm very hopeful. i think what we need is a hard correction. i think we have that with a lot of forward-thinking people in the democratic party and president obama. thank you so much for having the opportunity to make this statement. host: thank you for the call. from our twitter page. let's turn back to politics. first, from political, rick santorum with a win in kansas. the headline is with the results in, santorum adding up delegate counts. from the alabama website, newt

gingrich targeting obama, not republican rivals in a hoover campaign stop. newt gingrich wrapping a full day of campaigning with a last stop in hoover where he hammered the president's. "barack obama's policies lead to food stamps. my policies will lead to jobs and paychecks." obama's washington believes it loans power to the people. this from the birmingham news. the website is al.com. we're joined from texas. good morning. caller: good morning. many of my fellow americans -- yes, we are on the decline.

many of my fellow americans have listened to him every morning on the way to work. saying the country is not on decline. i listened to them. and i pass a lot of young men. they're not willing to invest in their education. or work hard as our grandparents and parents did. some of them are not willing to take the jobs or go to school to invest in their education. their children are also that way. this is by the way they talk. also, night school. working during the day. in a blue-collar men. -- i am a blue-collar man. all of my america -- all of my fellow americans are belly aching. they cannot get up by their bootstraps, my fellow americans. host: thank you for the call

from texas. from "the new york times." host: that is the front page of "the new york times."

we are going back to the "politico" story about present form. he will likely receive the lion's share of the 40 delegates. mitt romney placed second. he picked up nine delegates from the u.s. virgin islands. but santorum has 51% of the vote, mitt romney coming in second. robert is turning us from jacksonville, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. they did not put out the news to everybody who they are supposed to be. by now in ohio, or in pennsylvania or west virginia -- we have new shops going in.

my shop is 9 miles -- we put out bonuses for people working there. we have the property that is settling down there. they are handing out money for mineral rights. the borough are getting $3,000 an acre -- people are getting $3,000 an acre. host: this morning, mitt romney narrowly winning the ohio primary last tuesday and a look at the break down. you mentioned in different counties in ohio and the northern part, which is where mitt romney did well. rick santorum was able to win 69

of ohio's 88 counties. of course, romney won the most populous counties. he won with about 12,000 votes. again, we are asking the question about whether or not america is in decline. it is based in part on inkogan's book -- on robert kagan's book. here is more from our "queue nda" interview. -- "q kendeigh" interview. "q &a"interview. [video clip] >> i am trying to balance between the president making this point but people saying if the president agrees with you,

where does this put you in relationship to mitt romney. i think the governor romney views in mind are very consistent. host: this is online at c- span.org or on the "qanda" website. caller: i believe the country is in decline. one of the biggest reasons is our natural -- national debt. if any of us ran our house of the way our government is running its own debt, we would be in bankruptcy. that is the next up. it scares me to death. also, the thinking about the manufacturing jobs that are going overseas. manufacturing does not exist in this country anymore. it was one of our biggest assets in america. manufacturing. it is all gone now. the price of oil is going up.

any recovery we have been experiencing lately -- you'll see the recovery go down. i don't know what else to say. i believe is in decline. host: okay. u.s. for the call. robert kagan is the author of a new book. it is on our website. next is barbara joining us from somerset ky. good morning. caller: yes, sir, thank you for my call. -- if you are for taking my call. i do not think we are in decline. if people will really look, when we had a democratic president we had jobs and a union. we had a safe country.

then we put in bush and the country goes in decline. 9/11. as long as you let the n the country,n, th we are hurting. the republicans are using the bible for their excuse to keep people riled up so they will not vote for the democrats. they should not be able to get up there and claim to be a christian. when you want to vote republican, you take a chicken to the doctor, put an aspirin between your knees, and pray for the country. host: okay. dean is on the phone. good morning. caller: i did not realize i had a neighborhood such as that living 30 miles away. of course we are in decline. that is not a relative

statement. that is a statement of fact. look at their leadership. this is where our problem stems from peoria we have come in the white house, the most evil leader that our country has ever had in my lifetime. a person who actually supports the murder of babies. a person that is using my tax money to kill babies. if -- the lady called earlier abou putting god in that picture. i will throw caught in the picture. our founding fathers put him in every statement they made. if we do not get back to this, a decline is not the name for it. it will be the rest of god. -- wrath of god. host: from our twitter page -- an anniversary today -- in earthquake followed by a tsunami hit japan along the coast.

here are some photographs from inside the "washington post." we want to share you a look at before and after. this is what it looked like a year ago and below that is the clean-up operation. what it looks today. still much work needs to be done throughout japan. next to that, you can see how the tsunami break -- broke down the wall. what it looks like today. these photographs from then and now, it looked across japan on the one-year anniversary and the tsunami and earthquake that devastated and resulted in thousands of deaths and devastated that part of the country. back to your calls on the issue of america, whether we are not in decline. james is on the phone from houston, texas. good morning. you are for waiting. caller: good morning. i would like to say that there are cracks in all parts of society. that is what -- there are crook

s and all parts of society. until we get the greed a lot of our corporate world, we cannot move forward. that is not what our forefathers of this country valued. i heard somebody talking about gasoline. when you have goldman sacks in charge of the commodities and the oil companies second produce oil, refined the oil, and sell the oil, this is corporate greed. we did back in's the 1950's, that was declared a monopoly. you do not see that happening anymore. nothing is ever a monopoly. that is just how much money they can make. how much money they can take. host: okay. john hofmeister is going to be

joining us. he is the former president of the shell oil company. he is also an author. he will be joining us in about 10 to 15 minutes. later, we turn attention to southern politics with primaries in alabama and mississippi on tuesday. what is the new stuff? what can the republican expect -- republicans expect? or the debt days behind us? a lot -- are the best days behind us? a lot can be regarded about whether america is on the decline. the interview we did last week on "q&a" with robert kagan mentioned this. this week, our guest is senator carl levin. he is the chair of the senate armed services committee and with attention focusing on nuclear weapons in iran and potential strike by israel, what

is congress's role in all of this if the president calls for any military action. here is a portion of the "newsmakers"interview. [video clip] >> should congress debate authorizing military force? >> sure. when it is sought. >> should the president asked congress for the authority to go to war now? >> yes, perhaps. if he decides he is going to become involved in the country issue, he should because -- seek authority. >> this he have to? >> nel president in my left -- no president in my lifetime ever have. i should not say no in -- no president in my lifetime. world war ii was in my lifetime. since the war powers act has been adopted and says after a certain amount of time, our troops are still in harm's way,

then the president to come to congress and get authority for their continuance -- no president have said they are bound by that. host: senator carl levin is our guest on "newsmakers." john boehner was interviewed and that interview appears in a number of articles. "home laong" is the title -- "home alone"is the title. we have comments from the speaker of the house that congress include some of the dumbest and raunchy as people in the country, but also some of the smartest. speaker boehner said that it could be difficult to rankle missed beating members were arguing that the chamber is not uniquely corrupt or scandal- prone. we have ordered 35 members. this is the size of america. it really is. we have some the smartest people, some of the dumbest,

some of the best people you'll ever meet, and some of the raunchiest. this a column appears nationwide in newspapers around the country. mike is joining us from florida. good morning. is america on the decline? caller: yes. yes. host: why do you say that? caller: in my lifetime, they keep a bridal reading out of the schools. -- bible reading out of the schools. you do not only need knowledge about science and math, but you learn to choose beat -- choose between good and evil. the schools are wracked with drugs and sex. kids do now know right from wrong. they do not even have a chance to decide. life ornk chicken's

cat's life is just as worthy as a human being. kill the babies if they are in your way. we heard the president say that. sin is what you have got. people do not know that jesus christ died for their sins and can change their lives. give them a new life. now, most of the preachers are asking for money. they do not talk about forgiveness or righteousness. they say, send me your money. host: okay. julie from st. paul, minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking mykleby. -- taking my call. when obama took office, everything looked really dismal. s a result, -- if we tstick

with president obama, things will be ok. jobs are coming back. their programs helping people. -- there are programs helping people. people are realizing how important it is to buy american and that is catching on. i do not think drilling it is the whole answer. they are drilling in north dakota and the gas prices are not going down. i question that. i think if we do it, we have to be careful. i agree that we need to invest in education to keep step with the taiwanese. we need to have incentives for our youth to keep us great. host: thank you. we will be talking about gas prices with the former head of shell. who needs congress? the focus is on arne duncan. redesigning its law school system because lawmakers cannot. has he found a formula for getting things done in spite of the grid by? inside "cq weekly" is talking

about funding afghan forces rising. boosting the risk of chaos after u.s. troops dry them. there is breaking news this morning from afghanistan. there is a shooting of someone who walked out of his base surely before dawn today. he began shooting afghan civilians. afghan residents, and according to nato officials, there were casualties. there were people killed in a shooting spree. it is unclear exactly how many were killed. helicopters were circling overhead in the village as the delegation arrived to determine what happened. the individual involved is being held in custody this morning. that story from the associated press in the latest in afghanistan. conflicting reports. some say three, some say 16 may have been killed.

more information is coming during the course of the day. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we turn our attention to the issue of gas and oil prices. later, we focus on southern politics. a new poll out in illinois showing that mitt romney is up slightly for the primary is set for march the 20th. santorum coming in second. 35 to 31%. those are the next round of contests this tuesday. eleanor next tuesday. politics, gas prices, and oil dominating programs. you can hear them at c-span radio. nancy calo is keeping track of all of that. >> beginning at noon eastern, here replays of the network tv talk shows. we begin with nbc's "meet the press." the house welcomes rick santorum. -- the house welcomes me santorum. then we have a debate with

martin o'malley and bob mcdonnell. "this0, it is abc's show week." fox news centerior said 2:00 p.m. eastern here chris wallace down with republican presidential candidate newt gingrich and senator john mccain. at 3:00 p.m. at cnn state of the union, we talk with harry reid and then two former candidates. they discuss the state of the presidential race. at 4:00, it is based the nation from cbs. they talk with newt gingrich and an adviser to president obama's reelection campaign. again, three years of the sunday talk shows begin at noon eastern time with nbc's huckabee this press -- nbc's "meet the press."

you can listen to them all here on c-span radio. that is 90.1 fm in the washington area. you can listen on xm satellite channel 119 or go online to c- spanradio.org. host: ernest hemingway is considered one of the great american writers and his works influenced raiders -- readers today. not many people know about his work as a spy during world war noem -- world war ii. >> there instances where he was approached by german fishing boats. he says, i will wait for them to come along and then my players are calling to live hand grenades down the open hatches. -- going to lob hand grenades down the open hatches. >> nicholas reynolds on hemingway, the sky. this is tonight at 8:30 part of

american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> "washington journal" continues. host: our guest is john hofmeister -- the author of a book and former president of a shell oil company from 2005 till 2008. the average price for gasoline is $4.25. higher in some areas, lower in others. many predicting by the summer, we are looking at $5 and beyond. why? caller: -- guest: in december 2010, i said, if we stay on the path we are on the, we are headed for $5 gasoline. by sometime in 2012. certainly in the second or third quarter. here we are. here comes the $5 gasoline. the problem is that we have had no plan in the country to take

care of ourselves. we have been living off imports for most of the last 30, 40 years. while we are in a nation that has more oil then saudi arabia, more than we will ever need, we have a government policy, republican and democrat, that is prohibiting oil companies from accessing natural resources in this country. we have exported their risk by importing from other countries. with tens of thousands of jobs not being created in this country, the reality is, american consumers are paying at the pump because we have not had a plan to produce our own domestic energy. we have been important for too long. what has changed and why it is so dramatic today is that government has ignored the fact that china has gone from five miller and barrels a day consumption in 2005 -- 5 million

barrels a day in consumption in 2005 to over 9 million barrels today. on their way to 50 million barrels a day by 2015. that is taking huge amounts of gold production away from what we were used to comporting -- global project away from what we were used to importing. people when speculators and the oil companies. people when whoever they can. the reality is, we have the energy in this country, but the country is not allowed to produce it. host: want to take a step back. it was 35 years ago that jimmy carter was in the white house library. he said that the energy crisis was the moral equivalent of war. republicans have criticized that speech. was he right? guest: yes. jimmy carter launched a major effort to develop the oil shales resources of the -- in colorado.

they never got developed. to this day, they have not been developed. jimmy carter also invested in alternative energy. jimmy carter opened up the prospect of domestic resource production with alternative energy. we never followed through. that has been a problem of every administration since nixon. we have never followed through. we put politics ahead of energy. energy is set the basis of our society. what we think about the quality in our society, we are becoming a nation of energy haves and have-nots. data center to the american people. when we are surrounded by more -- that is grossly unfair to the american people what we are surrounded by more oil than we need. i have been in offices of the executive branch's, and it is more important to have a political agenda and see it through than it is to actually get some work done on energy future for this country. host: the president discussing

this in his weekly address over the weekend. here is part of what president obama had to say about the price of a gallon of gasoline and what we are importing and exporting. [video clip] >> politicians have been rolling out their plans for $2 gas. a drill, drill, a dry summer. -- drove, drove, drill some more. oil production in america is at an eight-year high. we have credible the number of oil rigs and opened up -- quadrupled the number of oil rigs and opened up more opportunities. with only two% -- 2%, we cannot grow our way to lower prices. now what we consume 20% of the world's oil. we need and all of the above strategy that relies less on foreign oil and more on american made energy. solar, wind, natural gas, biofuels, and more. host: john hofmeister, he is talking about those alternative

energies for the last three years. guest: he and his administration have done more harm to the future of domestic natural resource protection than any administration since nixon for the following reasons -- is we are producing more oil than when he took office because of decisions made in the three or five years looking backward, not the last three years. it takes three or five years to bring on production in the oilfields. his administration has thankfully stayed out of the way from private land development. the federal government has no role in developing oil resources or natural gas resources on private lands in places like north dakota, pennsylvania, ohio, arkansas, louisiana, and so forth. that is where the increased production has come from. remember, he shed on the gulf of mexico after that bp tester. when all the rigs that were examined in the gulf of mexico after the bp disaster met every

term of their permits, yet they were shut down for six months. the gulf has yet to return to its prior state of production. we are in decline in the gulf of mexico. he does not mention that. we are producing about 200,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day less than we were before the b disasterp . -- bp disaster. the president is selecting a number based upon a narrow definition by the securities and exchange commission on crude reserves. there are two other categories called probable reserves and possible reserves. he ignored them completely. it is the -- we have more oil in the country that saudia arabia. that means we have a lot more than 2% because we are counting possible and probable. that will all be produced. this is not enough to just drill. the president is right when it comes to saying it is not enough to do that.

we need a more comprehensive plan wind and -- we need a more comprehensive plan. wind and solar do nothing for transportation. we should consider more ethanol. we could convert natural gas to methanol. nascar drivers use methanol. we could produce the four cars if we had flecks fuel engines. that is a -- flex fuel engines. in addition to that, we could use compressed natural gas for over the road calling. we could use hydrogen fuel cells. the previous administration started the hydrogen fuel cell program for automobiles. this administration did everything they could to kill it and tell congress intervened. keep in mind, i am not a bang up on obama. i'm banging of bonn officials that deny the people -- up on

the officials that unite the people an affordable price of fuel. we do not have that. i resent politicians hiding behind language to pretend that they have done something. the obama administration does nothing for private land development because it is not in their jurisdiction. but 85% of the other continental shelf is off-limits. that is a government decision. permitting on federal lands is down 60% in this administration from the prior administration. that is a government decision. there will be no more drilling off of the eastern gulf of mexico, east coast, west coast. in parts of alaska. as long as this administration is in office, they have been cleared on that fact. because of a five-year plan from 2012 to 2017 says do not open up any resources that are not are the open. the millions of acres he is talking about are limited to the western gulf of mexico where we

already drilled. this is our even part of the five-year plan for the last 25 years. host: a couple of points on the twitter page. guest: i think with respect to the first twitter, the saddest, i have had as president shell was when someone said -- i have to buy gasoline and hard men as -- heart medicine. i'm going to take half my heart medicine. i hope you do not lose a customer as a result. meaning he would die because he was choosing a few over heart medicine. that is a sad day for americans. with respect to the second comment, i agree.

i agree that traders to take physical possession. i also would suggest that the speculation is nowhere near what people think it is in terms of impact on oil prices. whenever there is a trade, there is a willing seller and a willing buyer. if people are willing to buy at higher prices, it says that is the market rate today. that could change tomorrow, but that is the market rate today. host: our guest is john hofmeister, a graduate of kansas state university. he has spent his career at ge and allied, which is now honeywell. he spent many years said shell -- at shell. he wrote the book "why we hate the oil companies." good morning from portland, oregon. thank you for waiting. caller: what i am curious about is why is he not talking about

the way oil is marketed? i think he is missing the heart of the situation because no matter how much oil we drill here in america, and how great our oil resources are, if we are going to pipe it up and put it on the world market and let countries like china and russia bid on it, then we have to bid on our -- on the inflated prices of our own oil and pay for the competition that russia and china bring to the table. what difference would it make as to how much oil you have and how you throw it? also, he is not mentioning that most of the these natural resources -- most of these natural resources live on the property of we the people of the

united states of america. host: thank you for the call from oregon. guest: interesting question being raised here. the reality and global oil production and consumption -- we are producing 88 million barrels a day. we are consuming at least 88 million barrels a day. the demand is for more. we produce in the world, including the u.s., about 86 -- 86on 88 billionto 88 million to 80 million barrels a day. we do not have enough to meet the demand. if the u.s. -- we have dropped our production in the u.s. by more than 3 million barrels a day. if we produced 10 million barrels, which we used to, if we

were allowed to do that today, we could, that would have an immediate effect on global prices. we do not sell crude oil outside the country. we consume all the crude oil. plus, we import between 11 and 13 million barrels a day from other parts of the world into this country. the caller may not understand that we do not produce enough crude oil to ship it to other parts of the world and we need another almost twice as much crude oil just to get through every day. the other thing mentioned about where the land is held, that is only on federal land. as i said, federal land permits have been reduced dramatically in the last several years. private land, mineral rights to private land are, in many states, the ownership of the landover -- landowner. where those rights exist, that is mainly where new production is taking place. host: how do you respond to the

question -- why is the oil that we grow in america not sold in america? something is not right. bp drills here and all we get our higher prices. guest: all the crude oil we get here is we find in american refineries. the question becomes, do we sell our refined products, our gasoline and our diesel or aviation fuel, do we sell them here or do we sell it outside the country? we primarily selling here. that is where the world's largest market is. the president has talked about exporting products. yes, some product is being exported now. within a range of 1 million barrels to 2 million barrels because american demand, since the recession, has gone from 20 million barrels a day in this country down to 18.5 million barrels. there is an 8% drop in consumption in this country.

the companies are not just calling to let gasoline sitting in storage tanks when the demands by americans has been reduced. they're going to sell it outside the country, which is what they are doing. host: the head of exxon mobile is telling matt lauer on the "stoday" show says this -- guest: there are a lot of use out there. i been articulating a $5 price -- there are a lot of views out there. i have been articulating a $5 price. he is more correct in the economy starting to falter. it could even go back into recession as we get to $5. i am deliberately being an alarmist. i know that because i am fearful that the american people are mis-served by- so republicans and democrats that something has to be done. the american people have to give

grip on the politicians who refuse to deal with the future needs of energy because it is not $5 this summer, guess what? if we stay on the plan we are on, which is no plan whatsoever, we will be a $5 next summer or $5.50 the following summer. or we will be wondering what ever happened to this country. we talked about decliner earlier. what ever happened to the country that we are standing in gas lines because china is sucking up some much of the available oil in the world? guess what china is doing, which is never reported, china is creating cash loans to state- owned oil companies all over the world so that they can guarantee the first oil. this is over $120 billion of chinese loans to state-owned oil companies just in the last three and a half years. they get the oil first from venezuela. they get the oil first from nigeria or from brazil or

wherever it is that they are creating these loans. the oil that goes to china is that the loans. we have no such plan. here we are arguing about whether we should or should not throw in our own country. we are not going to have enough oil to fill the tanks every day of consumers at whatever price it might be. rex may be correct that the economy could falter because people do not have the money to both buy clothes and books and food and medicine because they have to get to work every day and the higher price of gasoline, courtesy of the american government, is causing people to choose to not purchase things. that is what will take the country back to recession. that is what will cause higher unemployment. the sooner we get a plan for energy, the better off every american will be. host: we welcome our listeners on c-span radio. xmre also carried sundays on sirius 124 and the bbc

parliament channel. john hofmeister is the former executive shell and an author. now we go to dave joining us from michigan. good morning to you, sir. caller: good morning. and good morning, john. there is a statement made saying, drove less oil and everything will get better. we should drill less? close on all the oil wells and gas will drop down to 50 cents per gallon -- doesn't that sound wrong? then we talk about solar and wind, which -- would cause my electric bill look to go down to

2000 -- would go up to 2000 hours a month. that does not seem good, either. he wants to put us on a path that cost 10 times the price of oil. this talk about how oil is a world commodity. is everything not a world commodity? corn and beans and everything. people go to the cheapest labor markets everything is that way. that is a silly argument. everything goes to the global market, anyway. guest: in reality, we live in a world where markets do not recognize national boundaries, for the most part. on any commodity, whether it is orange juice or gasoline -- you mentioned other agricultural products. global trade is critical to keep the world in good shape. so, the issue of when and -- of wind and solar is another

discussion we're, in my book, i talk about the importance of all forms of energy. wind and solar are in their infancy. the amount of energy produced for the amount of cost to create that energy is a very, very high-cost source at today technology. we can get better and i'm sure we will over the next 10 to 20 years. what we need is a long-term comprehensive plan that takes the 0 to 10-year. into account. the 10 to 25-year. into account and then the 25 year period into account. the primary technology we know today is fossil fuel. coal, oil, natural gas. we cannot just write that off. some people want to. we cannot -- the whole country is using about 95% of the energy

sources from traditional sources that include coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear, and hydropower. or dams. the entire country needs a continuation for the 95% of its energy every day and wind and oslar -- solar can become more popular and frequent in the future, but not overnight. that does not happen that quickly. host: why gas prices are on the rise despite less demand. the americans are using less fuel. we are more energy-efficient. china and india are the reason why we are seeing higher prices. can you explain? guest: the demand from these huge countries is growing by double-digit percentages between percentages. -- growing by double-digit percentages. the u.s. is going from 20% to 18%. india has gone from 44 -- 4% to

07%. that is about 10 million more barrels per day, every day, that has to be produced by all the global oil companies. the reality is, nobody knows where that can come from. in this country, where we have plenty of abundant supplies of oil and natural gas, my whole point is, let us go back to 10 million barrels. that does not cover the gap with all the imports that we need, but then we can use natural gas. if we go to 10 million barrels of crude to make gasoline, let us use natural gas to make methanol. that is for about 3 million barrels a day. let us use ethanol, which we are on a pathway to do, for 2 million barrels. now we're a 15 million barrels. let us use hydrogen fuel cells for additional less dependence on oil, but more efficient automobiles can help with about 2 million barrels a day. we're a 70 million garrels. -- 17 million barrels.

let us do deals with canada and mexico to help us with a north american free trade agreement on oil protect -- oil for technology exchange. mexican could use our intelligence. canada has an abundance of oil and if they did not sell it, they will sell it to china. they are our neighbor. why would we send -- tolerate not doing business with the canadian so that they can do business with the chinese and harm ourselves in the process? we can cover the 18 million barrels to 20 million barrels with that kind of plan. we are not going to drill our way there. that is what i do happen. 10, why not? host: this is from a website that keeps track of prices in california, which is, you know, amongst the highest in the nation. if we go to the chart, you'll see how a significantly gas prices have increased in

california with about $5 or $5.50 per gallon in many california service stations. guest: that is a serious problem. california has higher price gasoline than much of the country. largely because of the state tax on gasoline. also, the fuel standard in gasoline has to make certain air quality requirements, which causes the refineries to operating more expensive program. it is because very expensive. when it is said the $5 gasoline will not hit, maybe that is not on the national average, but there are people, real people, and states in this country that are now paying $5 or more. that is just unconscionable. when we live in such abundance. host: our next call is from california. bill is on the phone. good morning, sir. caller: good morning. when we refine crude oil, we get a number of products other than

fuel, such as plastics and fertilizers. if we rely less on crude oil for our fuel needs in the future, how will that affect the prices of these other products? guest: well, when you refine a barrel of oil, here is a way to think about it -- a barrel of oil contains 42 gallons. about one-third of the heroin is considered heavy oil and -- about one-third of the oil is considered heavy and it is used to make asphalt. the middle is about a third and that is to make diesel, aviation fuel, and fuel oil for heating. the top third of the barrel is made of lighter molecules that turned into gasoline. the other chemicals you are referring to go -- come from that. if we produce less crude oil, not only will the price of gasoline rise, so while the price of everything else. we are an oil-based economy.

whether people like better not, that is the reality. we cannot pretend that oil is a thing of the past because it is not here. everything we make -- the make up the people put on their faces comes much of it from crude oil. a lot of refined chemicals are turned into pharmaceuticals that people's lives depend upon from crude-oil. there are many clothes that are made from crude oil. the nylon fibers that come out of the crude-oil refining process. this is not just about gasoline and diesel. this is about everything else that touches us that we made from crude oil. in addition, do not forget, all food is transported by truck at some point. all of our clothing and the things we by department stores or a target or kmart is delivered by truck. our mail is delivered by truck. everything is delivered by transportation vehicles.

the higher price of crude oil filters through every other part of the economy, including airplane tickets. airlines use the enormous amounts of aviation fuel. it touches every part of our life if we do not have adequate supplies of crude oil. until we have a plan to transition. we do not have a plan to transition away from crude oil that makes any sense whatsoever. host: more broadly on this thee, it is siaid that nation is invested in manufacturing. there is a twitter comments saying -- host: can you explain? guest: i do not like it when the league still the american people what the answer is. the american people have the knowledge and awareness of real lives to know better what the

answers are. i agree with tom friedman that education is critical to economic success. i read his column this morning. it is brilliant. i would say in criticism, he should be saying, both -- we cannot run this economy without crude oil and other fossil fuels as well as our journey to fuels. alternative energy. and we need education. i see no problem with doing both educating our population and exploiting the natural resources. taiwan has no natural resources. many other countries in the world have no natural resources. we are blessed and we never law and regulation. -- and we have rule of law and regulation. the combination of education -- i would not dismiss american education for a minute because we are the world's leading innovator. we are the world's leading

laboratory of medical science and so many other scientific endeavors. whether it is aerospace or the oil industry. the technology in the oil industry's equivalent to the technology and aerospace. that is because of education. we both education and we need natural resource production because not everybody was born to be a scientist here host: it our guest is john hofmeister -- not everyone was born to be a scientist. c-span3 our guest is -- host: our guest is john hofmeister. caller: i remember $4 billion -- now they're making $40 billion. if they cut the price of oil and half, that would be $20 billion. is $20 billion to little for the oil companies? guest: we need to know where the profit goes. exxon mobile announced in new

york last week that ex- and mobil was going to spend over $150 billion in capital investment in the next five years. $150 billion in capital investment just to keep producing roughly the same amount of oil that they do today plus some growth. and natural gas, as well. the $150 billion of capital investment has to come from a profit. you are correct to say that the numbers have risen from -- dramatically, as have the oil prices. if we were to get ahead of ourselves and start producing more oil than the world needs, we would see the price drop. that has been the problem. we have not been able to get ahead as global demand. all the companies, whether exxon noble -- exxon mobile or

shell, we cannot get ahead of the demand. people around the world want to live like americans do. this is predicated on more oil. for this country to deny its citizens our own natural resources, causing us to pay these extraordinary high prices, is really government control. a new form of taxation that has not been voted on. it is a demeaning lifestyle when you pull up to a gas tank and put $80 of gasoline in the tank when they used to cost less than $60. what did i do wrong? that i now to spend $80? she did nothing wrong. the fact of the matter is, her government did wrong. her government did wrong, not just this administration, but the prior administration and the one before that and so on. they denied access to america's natural resources. host: scott king closes the loop on an earlier question.

guest: it is true that there are a lot of transportation's -- there is a lot of transportation back and forth between the u.s. and china. what is driving demand in china are truck and car sales. lacher long, chinese consumers bought more than -- last year alone, chinese consumers bought more than thousands of cars. that card demands a new delivery of fuel that did not exist before. this year, they will buy another 20 million new cars. it is now replacing cars as much as buying new cars that is growing the fleet in china that is causing the surging demand. as well as the number of new airplanes that the chinese now fly. it is the growing middle class in china that is putting

tremendous pressure on oil companies. -- host: how many years were you at shell? guest: 11 years. host: we are speaking about the issue of antitrust and u.s. oil companies. let us take your reaction. [video clip] >> last april 1 i established a new part of the task force known as the oil and gas working group, we have been working on identifying civil or criminal violations in the oil and gasoline markets and ensuring that american consumers are not harmed by the unlawful conduct. this working group's latest meeting was held at the justice department just this morning. its members discussed a variety of topics including the oil speculators in the market. recent reports what working group members, such as the ftc, as well as ways to improve information sharing between

working remembers and partners. i can also report that one of the working group's members, the federal trade commission, is currently conducting an investigation with assistance from other working for members into whether gas prices have been affected by any antitrust evaluation -- antitrust manipulation by transporters, marketers, financial traders, or others. host: let us pick up on market manipulation. does it have been questioned how often? -- does it happen? how often? guest: in my experience in my oil career, which was a good part of it, i never experienced anything like he is describing. every year, we had to sign papers that we were following the law. the anti competition reality sets in hard. we have attorneys and companies

to make sure that no anti- competition behavior occurs. trading businesses within the oil companies and the general market in the u.s. is guided by attorneys and by rules and procedures. can i say the manipulation never occurs? i cannot say that for sure. but i argue that if there is manipulation, a is a minor fraction of the market and i support eric holder going after those people if they are violating laws? merican people's -- we cannot enforce american laws around the world, but generally, the practice is common in all of the trading market places, there is a government oversight over all of the trading centers, whether that is london, singapore. singapore is a rule of law country. we are not seen trading take

place in so-called rogue nations. people might take to take advantage of a -- might try to take advantage of it lawless state. while there may be some manipulation somewhere, i understand that the fraud committee that was appointed has hardly met over the course of its existence in the past year. that was reported in a national this paper last week. there is not much to investigate because companies follow the law. they do not want to go to jail. every time we would need as zero executives under the offices of the american petroleum institute, we had a an attorney in that room to make sure that our conversation never trusted -- drifted toward something anti-competitive. host: our guest is john hofmeister -- author. keith is on the phone.

el paso, texas. good morning, sir. caller: i have a question. i noticed every time you see news on the tv that gas prices are going up, the prices are going up. the gas they have in the ground it -- they may be paid. dollars a barrel, but we are our dipane -- they may be. -- they may be paying $80 other, but we are paying a lot. how did they get away with that? guest: what the owner of a local gas station is anticipating is his next delivery. his next delivery is likely to be at a higher price coming out of the refinery. what money they can make on the oil that sits in their tanks and generally, they turned their tankage over.

they raise their price rapidly when they see the crude-oil price going up in anticipation that the next time the tank truck shows up with a delivery, is going to be at a higher price. they need the cash to pay or they do not get the delivery. host: why does it take so long for prices to go down? guest: that happens at the retail station and your right. the term is, up like a rocket, the dow mikey federer. -- down like a feather. the price set at the gas station on every corner is basically set by the owner of that gas station and he has or she has to compete with other gasoline stations. they are not allowed to conspire. that is illegal. they cannot conspired to keep prices up. sooner or later, someone is when to drop the price and the others will follow. it does come down slower, generally, because retailers are

trying to make money. the margins on gasoline are so slim. if everybody notices, gasoline comes in convenience stores. most gas station makes money at the convenience store, not at the pump. because of fluctuating price, they can never be sure what their margins are born to be. if they are making 15 cents a gallon, which is a good deal of margin on a gallon of gasoline, they're not making much money off of it. they sell other things to make money. host: a couple of quick questions -- guest: china is building an oil strategic reserve, much like we do. china has very limited amounts of oil that we know of. china has a lot of natural gas. the chances are, they will be

turning their natural gas into methanol or ethanol, as we could be doing with our vast amounts of natural gas. india also has very little oil. what they have is mainly offshore. they are going to be needing oil imports for a long time to come, as will china and the u.s.. we're all competing for imports. this keeps pressure on the prices. host: stephen from arizona. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been listening to this and there is one thing i have not heard yet. this is the main reason our price -- the regulations epa are phenomenal. -- the epa has are phenomenal. you were talking earlier about california and a different blends and what the companies have to do to get them. why is so much more expensive.

newt gingrich says we should have won bldn for everybody. -- one blend for everybody. guest: the last time we saw the spike in gasoline prices in 2007, 2008, this whole issue of boutique blends, which today, there are now 13 to protect the air quality because of high altitude or low altitude, high summer temperatures, coldthese e supposed to create equality across the country. the same argument coming forward now is simplifying that these boutique blends would lead to less expensive in refining gasoline. that's absolutely correct. but their work you were blends required, refineries would not have to gear up for the various sundry blands, but some states will not go along with that. some states, like california,

are adamant about the quality of their gasoline and the emissions that would come from their gasoline. but there was not an epa rule, they would create their own role, and the already have. other states with dust accumulations of emissions, whether it is the next, and i york city, they want some say. the epa has largely responded to local demands to try and make that happen. host: john hofmeister the former chief executive of the exxonmobil company and author of "why we hate the oil companies: straight talk from an energy insider." turning our attention to southern politics. the new poll out today showing that mitt romney is a head slightly as the road to the white house continues in march with matt romney and rick santorum battling it out for delegates. tom baxter will be joining us in

a moment from atlanta. you were watching "washington journal." back in a moment. contentn's 2012 local toward taking of programming on the road. if the in march, we feature shreveport, louisiana, at the knoll memorial library. >> he was a local man and he started accumulated books as a teenager and continued until he was in his 80's. it accumulated over 200,000 volumes. if we have one at gem in the collection, it will be this one. it is in the original binding from 1699. it was once owned by a very

famous scientist. he has written his name here, " i. newton." it is starting to flake away. >> cut american history tv" looking at the pioneer heritage museum. >> its is stretch from where it was. the things we take granted today when we go to the doctor, things like the instruments being germfree or the doctor watching the -- washing his hand. and we use the term "doctor:" " loosely. they were self taught and would learn as they go. >> our tour continues to litter rock, ark., on c-span2 and 3.

>> ernest hemingway is considered one of the great american writers and his work still influences readers today, but not many know of his work as a spy during world war ii. >> he knew about german submarines approaching fishing boats. ernest would wait for them to come along side and then at the players will lob hand grenades down the open hatches in the other members of the machine crew will use the machine guns on deck. >> on hemingway, this by. part of american history tv on c-span3 -- part of ernest hemingway, the spy. host: tom baxter, who is no stranger to southern politics.

for many years, he has been at the "atlanta journal constitution." thank you for coming back to c- span. we appreciated. two key primaries on tuesday, states where gingrich has been campaigning. also rick santorum and now mitt romney in an effort to secure delegates. what can we expect? guest: you can expect a pretty close the malley if you look at the rasmussen polls in alabama -- you can expect a pretty close rally. during vich was up 21 points. -- gingrich up 21 points. we have seen polls in alabama over the past week in which all three of the candidates have had the lead at one time or another. brawny looks like he i in better shape in mississippi, with a seven point lead -- mitt

romney looks like he is in better shape. i will be interested in the impact of kansas. it is so close. santorum ran away in the caucus. if you're looking for any type of a late breaking thing, it could give him a little bit of a boost in those states. if there were any surprises this tuesday to look forward to, i think it might be another kind of santorum break out like he had in tennessee or kansas. host: let's look at the results in kansas with santorum winning with 15,000 votes in the caucus over the weekend, 51% to mitt romney's 21%. in wyoming, mitt romney winning, but he won with 577 votes, just a few votes behind being wrecks santorum. what can you read from either of

these weekend contests? guest: this is the in and yang of this contest. -- the yin and yang. kansas are the conservative, rural republican voters and romney is having a trouble winning them over. his is tehe slow slog of delegates and the race for them, if you will. if he pulls ahead of the other two candidates in mississippi and he can hang on to that and come out on tuesday with a few delegates, then i think he continues to say that it is inevitable. host: mitt romney campaigning with his unofficial southern strategy in alabama and mississippi. here is one event with the

former governor of massachusetts, born in michigan. [video clip] come over year. he had four years' total mess. -- four years at ole miss. his turning me into an unofficial southerner. strange things are happening to me. i like grits. host: your reaction to those comments? guest: there pretty silly. they will stick in the craw of a few southerners. i can remember george h. w. bush, and even though he was from houston, sometimes he would say things that would be dissonant with southerners. before ronald reagan became ronald reagan, when he was still out there as a maverick governor

from california making a tour through the south, he had a few instances of a cultural disconnections, too. ronald reagan had to record communication skills and he overcame that over time. host: our guest is tom baxter joining us from atlanta, a longtime observer of southern politics. we have a link to his blog available on our website, c- span.org. we want as to a fundamental question has been looked at a map of the south. what is the new south? what is the seventh -- the southern strategy? what is the southern boat docks -- what is the southern vote? guest: obama carried three of the larger southern states,

virginia, north carolina, and florida. there was not a solid south in the sense we have spoken about in previous elections. the other thing about that election is that if obama had not won any of those three states, he still would have had the electoral votes to win the election. we come in to this year with this out, again, being the beneficiary of reapportionment. with the electoral votes in texas, it makes the south still necessary for the democrats to contest and try to take some of the states away from the republican candidates so that it will not be as solid said. host: james from grand forks, north dakota, on the independent

line with tom baxter from atlanta. caller: when you talk about the primaries, you talk about mitt romney in the two other candidates. i'm sure you are aware there are three other candidates running. guest: the other is ron paul and we should not ignore him. aboutre talking expectations for the results next week, i think almost every one of the polls has had him in the single digits. are you aware of any that have him higher than that? caller: the polls are unreliable when it comes to his numbers. the primary numbers are unreliable as well. i tend not to even trust the numbers very much because they seem to be spun from a false web. guest: he sounds like a native southerner more like romney.

there is some potential of their, but i think this will probably be a day in which social conservatives' turn out very heavily. those mid stirring conservatives in the south and are generally ignored but are really an important part of the votes are more establishment leaning. host: ron paul has yet to win a single contest with 23 primaries and caucuses. caller: there is always a first time. host: asheville, kentucky, on the republican line. caller: how are you doing this morning? i guess i have a question and it regards to senator santorum, a comment that he made at a catholic university three years ago where he made the statements that he felt

protestantism was not mainstream. he's a protestantism was in shambles. i'm just curious as to why none of the "protestant religions" have not asked him to explain that. guest: it might perhaps of something to do with the fact that the other two candidates he is running against our protestant. -- are protestant. you are right in your presumptions that that, it would not go over well with a lot of conservative protestant republican voters in the south. really, the discourse of this campaign is being determined by these big super pac's and they are not getting into that

territory. host: tom baxter, let me put a few scenarios on the table to get your reaction. let's assume the decision is split. santorum wins one state, and and at romney wins the other. what does it mean that? guest: i think the question is what that would mean for newt gingrich, who has given mixed signals. there has been a last hurrah quality people have bred into man in his campaign. he has said it that he fully intends to go on to tampa and a matter what happens this coming week. whether he stays in the campaign or not, if he does not perform pretty well, and a good performance would have to be probably be winning in alabama and coming close in mississippi, then whether he stays in eleonore not, gingrich begins to

receive and it becomes a long, drawn-out battle between the one remaining viable conservative challenger and mitt romney. you know, looking at the calendar, you get past these two states this coming weekend the next big clump of votes is burgeron into april, mostly a lot of northeastern states. if romney can come out of this thing on tuesday with at least a partial win with some delegates to say that he is continuing he is not march, winning pretty, but he is moving towards the goal, i guess you could say. host: conversely, if newt gingrich when the one or both, what does that mean? -- if he wins one or both?

guest: it prolongs the argument the little longer. i guess there would have to be a little bit of a sorting out between santorum and gingrich. again, i think gingrich has pursued pretty much exclusively a southern strategy. he did not contest in kansas over the weekend. the first thing he would have to do is find some good northern states to get to make an impression. host: clearwater, fla., on the democratic line. caller: good morning. can get the tax money out? as a former nurse, i have not heard anything about having about a health care system where we actually have competition to

raise the quality and decrease [unintelligible] insurance should cover alternative medicine. i do not see any real suggestions. i would like a free, open market system. right now it is run by the insurance companies. please, let's see a president, or candidate, can really come up with a real solution. host: tom baxter, a quick reaction? guest: that's one. newt gingrich has tried to stake out, being the candidate who has some innovative, free-market- oriented solutions in health care. unfortunately, that has been drowned out in a lot of the name calling in this campaign. it's amazing to have 20 debates

with really so little fundamental working out of the issues in all those debates. host: our guest is tom baxter joining us from atlanta. let's show you how newt gingrich is going after health care in this web bad. -- web ad. [video clip] >> he said he made it obamney care. >> this is the same bill romney passed in massachusetts. host: that is the argument that newt gingrich and rick santorum have been making.

now he will be campaigning in mississippi and alabama over the next few days. guest: it has some residents, i think. obama is not popular in these -- has some resonance, i think. obama is not popular in the states. the governor of massachusetts to has passed a health care plan will be a somewhat suspect. you have a lot of voters in these states who, their first priority, will be to turn the president out of office. they will be pretty pragmatic about which one they think has the best chance of doing that. host: on our independent line from park built, md., welcome to the conversation. caller: i wonder how many people

will be like me. i am a registered independent for romney, not obama. i will not vote at all if santorum is the nominee for the republican party. host: why do you say that? caller: i think santorum is too far on the religious side. i do not like that part of the republican party. host: we will get a response from tom baxter. guest: that may be a conviction your firmly set in, but i wonder if the news stories of the past week have had any impact on you in that regard with the rush limbaugh story which has gone pretty much viral in georgia with a legislature or in georgia that is making an analogy between women in the question of an abortion bill and farm

animals that he had handled. i would just ask the caller is that feeds in to that sentiment. host: can you follow-up on what the caller was saying in this issue from the front page of "the new york times," writing about the president's efforts to court women. there will be a series of mailings going out to millions of women in the battleground states in three separate versions foremothers, older women, and young women. the obama campaign is trying to use the current political climate to regain a traditional part of the democratic base. tom baxter, your reaction? guest: i think that is a pretty obvious course of action. i think it probably has had some impact over these past few weeks. host: are you still there?

caller: yes. i have always been against santorum. i agree with rush limbaugh on different things. they're using this to try to get the women votes and they have ms. fluke, which i think is it put up by the democratic party i was a republican at one time, but i get out of the party because of all this right wing religious stuff. host: thank you for the call. from atlanta, where tom baxter is this sunday morning. jonathan? caller: good morning. i am libertarian in a lot of things. when it comes to abortion, you fixed in views ouare stone, but the question of the viability of the fetus is common

sense. abb in the third term of gestation deserves some kind of protection or recognition under the law which is something that santorum talks about. i listen to santorum for the last year on a bill bennett's talk radio show. the guy is probably as knowledgeable about how government works as anyone i have ever heard. when it comes to the economy, one thing that i think romney really needs to do, and gingrich touched on this several times, is talking about economic history when it comes to tax reform. in 1983, i think republicans need to compare and contrast obama's third year and ragan's third year. one month in 1983, september, we produced 1.1 million jobs. it there was an average of

300,000 or more jobs per month. this was 30 years ago. we had 8% quarterly growth figures. one quarter was 9.3%. we had 1.7% last year. we need to hammer this, and win over the political will with a knowledge of history. a parent they do not know it. it talked about kennedy, the 1920's and george bush's tax cuts and we had the greatest time in our history. people need be informed about this, when over the political will, talk about tax reform and reducing taxes. host: thank you, jonathan. tom baxter? guest: if his point is that republicans are having a hard time getting up the message, i

think it's true. as a plea on jobs, it is always the latest statistic. that is something i learned a long time ago. it is never the big numbers but the small matters that mattered most. if your brother in law gets a job, that matters more than it added 200,000 jobs nationally or not last week. i would certainly agree from a strategic point of view that republicans have really let themselves get off track on this. they have not concentrated in their lack of focus, at the national and state level. if you look at how much jobs legislation or economic development legislation is coming out of any of these legislatures across the south,

even the newly elected lieutenant governor of south carolina resign, be invited to come and be convicted on the same day. you have the collapse in alabama of this bingo trial, and for viewers not from this part of the trial, but the alabama legislature went from democratic to republican two years ago largely on the strength of this vote buying scandal having to do with the video games. this past week, the government case against sick of it -- six of these defendants were found not guilty and completely cleared of these charges. and then in mississippi, you have this furor over the hailey

barbour pardons, when you add these together in gives you a picture of other republican party that have had a hard time beating out where to go from here. host: let's get some historical perspective. i want to assure you it photograph from president lyndon b. johnson 1964 signing the historic voting rights act with the martin luther king behind him. i also want to take a look at the electoral map dating back to 1956 when dwight eisenhower won easily but the south remains solid for adelaide stevenson. this is back in 1956. then you can see how it changed. in 1964 when lyndon johnson said they lost this out, he indeed did lose the key southern states

of louisiana, mississippi, alabama, georgia, south carolina, despite the fact he won everywhere else. in the 1980's, this is what jimmy carter look like winning, but of course he was from georgia. du can see the south remaining pretty solid for ronald reagan. what does this tell you? guest: what was happening while all of that progress was going on for republicans was that things were moving very glacially slowly up the local level. you of all over the past 30 or 40 years with the bifurcated politics where you may have locally elected state legislator tors, but increasingly people would vote for the republican presidential candidate and maybe the senate or gubernatorial candidates.

the really big news from this last election, the 2010 election was that after years and years of efforts to drive this down to the grass roots, in 2010 it exceeded completely with a republican majority legislate tors and holding the governor's offices all over the south. lyndon johnson's predictions sort of came true, but it took a lot longer read it took the election of an african-american president in addition to the passage of the civil rights voting act all of those decades ago to really complete the process. host: this is what the 2008 map look like. joining us from illinois, good morning --

caller: their references to the religious in this country. we have a division of church and state which i think is very important. the religious aspect has no place in our political and irina. in my opinion, the right-wing christians in this country are just as dangerous as the extremist moslems. as for santorum, that leaves them out completely for me. also the woman should have the right to do what she wants with her on body. that is debatable but that is my opinion. i appreciate you letting me make my opinion known, thank you. >host: thank you.

any reaction? guest: we talked a lot about the impact of religious conservatives. they are a very loyal voting bloc and they will certainly have an impact this year. if religion becomes too central question, i think in this primary process, there is a danger. i imagine this gentleman who just called i could predict will vote for barack obama anyway but they're a lot -- but there are a lot of independent voters who are may be conservative on one issue in middle of the road on the other but they have a healthy distrust of religious extremism and if things go too far, that could become a factor. host: "the baltimore sun" about

this this week -- lawrence's joining us from hickory, n.c., welcome to the program. caller: maybe you could walk us through how the electoral college would choose a candidate if none of these fellows reach the magic number. is it possible that of gingrich could join romney and combine their electoral votes if one decided to be the running mate with the other to steal it or something? guest: at this stage of the game, we're not talking about electoral votes for the electoral college that will elect the president in the fall

but we are talking about the republican party system for allocating delegates to their convention. when you look at the states, they are not proportionally allocated as they were in the past because the party now gives bonuses for republican performance. if you elected a republican u.s. senator or republican governor, if republicans took over the legislature, you get points for those. as were the reasons why the southern states actually have a fair number of delegates. republicans have done pretty well there. with that being said and the fact that it is harder for any candidate to get the 1147 -- something like that -- that many delegates quotes that are required to cleanse the

republican nomination, another reform has been that these states are not winner-take-all but they are allocating their delegates proportionately. it is a longer, slower process but it still rewards the candidate who's got the resources to go to the places to guam and wyoming to get delegates wherever they are. you are asking me what happens -- i think you are saying what happens when we get close to the anyention and we don't have one of these republican candidates with a republicanlock -- -- with a solid lock --after that, you throw away the rules and make new rules. host: people say it would not be a brokered convention.

the last time we saw a republican convention in which the potential nominee did not have enough ballots going into the convention hall was 1976 when jerry ford was being challenged by ronald reagan. that headline from "the washington post" -- another call from the south in tennessee, democrats line, good morning. caller: good morning, i find it interesting that the state of

georgia is made up of around 65% black and 40% of white. you go through atlanta, you turn your radio on and all you hear is the blasting of the current president. i wonder where this representation of a majority of democratic 60% black bar? guest: it is not 60% black in georgia. there is no stay where blacks are in the majority. it is close to, i believe, 30%. that is closer to the actual percentage of african-americans in this state of georgia. caller: i don't hear them

getting their information out tin georgia. i hear it is all biased one way. guest: i will tell you an interesting insight into that -- if you're driving through atlanta, you are right, you hear a lot of ahnnity and limbaugh and there is a lot of that on the airwaves. there is a lot of help the average american radio, too. one thing that is coming along that i think is not in anybody's sites right now but the influence of hispanic radio across the south. there are dramatic instances of this. the demonstrations opposing the georgia immigration bill at the state capital this year were organized largely through

hispanic -- the spanish-language radio. in these immigration bills and the struggle over these immigration bills and alabama and georgia, a hispanic radio which is all the way on the right side of the am dial and very few english speaking conservatives or white or black go over and listened to that. it is having a growing impact in the region now. host: let me share with you what "politico" is reporting -- do you think it would end for rick santorum or newt gingrich? guest: i know the answer that rick santorum or newt gingrich would give to that. the romney people what this and

they want it to reach a conclusion very quickly so they are trying to force it. at the same time, a win by one percentage point would preserve that shaky aura of inevitability that he has now. host: this is the headline from "the chicago tribune" -- in this survey, between 16%-18% but remain undecided. alberta, mass., independent line -- caller: i am sick of every time a politician, especially from the south who was baptists or whatever, i don't like to go

after religion or anything else, goes after women and women's rights. they try to terrace up one way and the other because of one thing -- -- they try to tear us up one way or another because of one thing of how they do wrong to people. let's see them run as a politician and not as a person to tear down women. it is sickening. that's all i have to say. our health care in massachusetts is working even though mitt romney did some of it, the rest is up to our government now. believe me, we're not unhappy. thank you, goodbye. host: more of a comment, not a question, do you want to respond? guest: that response sort of sums up priority number one or what should be priority number one for the republicans coming out of this primary campaign.

they have really got to turn around this idea that they are the anti-women's party. [laughter] i think they need to start develop effective women's started voices for the nominee. or they really have a problem. host: in your blog, you write that there used to be two george's and now there are a dozen atlanta's. what is your message? caller: it is increasingly urban and a more diverse region. it had a great time at the dold institute for politics last year leading a study on the evolving politics of the south. we called one of the sessions '

the new gumbo' because this is a region that has traditionally been seen in the focus of white and black. now it is becoming one of extreme dynamism. you've got the second largest korean population in the country here in the suburban county that i happen to be in right now in atlanta. you go across the region and you see pretty dramatic demographic change that may not show up in this election but i think we will see it showing up in elections across the coming decades. host: our guest is tom baxter, a writer for "the atlanta journal constitution." he now has a blog. you can reach it through a link from our website, c-span.org.

where can viewers and listeners find you? guest: that blog is associated with the support your report in atlanta. -- the supporter report in atlanta. this has given me the opportunity to pay more attention to my own home town that i have in writing over the past decade or so. i am enjoying host: pine bluff, texas, good morning. caller: i am calling in regards to the funding of the corporate money that funds the politics. as an american citizen, i think more and more americans are becoming the government watchdogs. they are not investigating so

much but educating themselves on formulas and the corporate -- the role of the corporate productions. me, personally, i have written a major test. i have studied the formula for the oil industry here in the private sector. this is the deal -- we were always taught to keep the money in the neighborhood. to make money in your town, keeping your town and don't drive 100 miles down the mall because you don't have a mall. keep at home and the mall will come. why do we keep allowing for our american-based companies to be overseas and not be penalized as opposed to bringing them home

and giving it to them within the senate? host: tom baxter? guest: that is a good question. get a counter argument from the corporate office in cocoa: here in atlanta which is opposed -- corporate office of coca-cola here in atlanta. you kind of touch on a lot of sentiment that is out there. there is a general distrust of big money and its influence. it was striking during the wave of occupy demonstrations. not only were those demonstrations held in most of the big cities across the country but you had a lot of small southern towns, relatively places you would not think, that you would see that kind of demonstration.

in many cases, it is not as much associated with traditional left and right definitions in politics but a deeper sense of unease about where we are going with all this. host: this is from north carolina -- we have heard this every four years against an incumbent president. how prevalent is that in your perspective? guest: i think abo in many cases would spell mitt romney. that is the sentiment that even though these folks may not feel means hee with thehim would still do well in the southern states whether he is the candidate of first choice or not. host: long branch, new jersey,

independent line -- caller: good morning, is new mexico not considered a southern state? why is gary johnson being ignored by the republican party? he is a two-term governor and apparently a good one and he is being snubbed and is running as a libertarian and that is allied plan to vote for barry and i voted for obama, will not do it again and i will not vote for willard. half of them are out of their minds by gary johnson had altogether i thought. john hulsman -- john hulsman did not want -- did not make me want to throw up. new jersey was brought down by a fat man. i had to get that in darien high loved gary johnson and they don't give him anything. host: thank you for the call.

guest: i guess new mexico is a western state to be distinguished from a southern state because it is a brand of libertarian politics that plays better in the west than it has traditionally in the south. i thought gary johnson was an interesting candidate, too, but one of the reasons why he is not considered in contention is simply that he maybe had one or two debates spots early on but was excluded from the big kind of "dancing with the stars"- style debates which have been collaborations between one news network and some political organization.

this starts with the fact that he was excluded from most forms. host: final question with an eye on tuesday, mississippi and alabama, what are you looking for? guest: from the perspective of georgia, i am looking to see whether newt gingrich can do well in alabama enough to be serious about moving along. if i am looking for a surprise, it might be rick santorum getting some bounce out of this kansas victory over the weekend and over-performing in the states. if things stay the way they are an mitt romney wins his share of the votes in the states, he comes out looking pretty good. host: tom baxter was joining us from atlanta and his perspective on southern politics, thank you for being with us. another headline we want to share with you courtesy of the

newseum -- ron blagojevich will be moving to a facility in colorado for his conviction on bribery. that is from the front page of "the chicago tribune." when we come back, we'll turn our attention to the issue of special operations forces and we will look at what other guests will be dominated the sunday morning programs. >> good morning. re-airs of five network tv talk shows begin re-airing at noon eastern time and much of the

focus will be on presidential politics and we start with "meet the press" with republican presidential candidate rick santorum and then a debate between virginia republican governor bob mcdonnell and maryland democratic governor martin o'malley. this week," with chuck schumer and south carolina republican senator lindsey graham. "fox news sunday" is next and newt gingrich and armed services committee member senator john mccain. at 3:00 p.m., it is cnn's " "state of the " with a read and two formal -- and two formal -- two former presidential candidates. at 4:00 p.m., it is "face the nation" with republican presidential candidate newt gingrich and the robert -- and

a former white house spokesman makes an appearance. -- robert gibbs. you can listen to them all on cspan radio on 90.1 in the washington, d.c. area and nationwide on xm-satellite radio or go online to cspan radio.org. >> our ancestors came across the ocean in sailing ships you would not go across a lake in great when they arrive there was nothing here. they built their tiny little cabins and they did it with neighbors helping one another, not federal grants. >> as candidate's campaign for president this year, we look back and 40 man who ran for the office and lost. go to our website, c-span.org/

the contenders, to see video of the contenders who had a lasting impact on american politics. >> this is also the time to turn away from excessive preoccupation overseas to the rebuilding of our own nation. america must be restored to her proper role in the world. but we can do that, only through the recovery of confidence in ourselves. >> c-span.org/the contenders. "washington journal" continues -- host: we want to focus on the issue of special forces and their role in our nation's security and we have a former lieutenant colonel from the u.s. army and a former depurate -- deputy secretary of defense for special operations. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you. host: what are special

operations forces and why are they important? guest: the special operations forces and the way it is reported to congress are a league military forces -- are elite military forces to be able to infiltrate hostile territory or politically sensitive areas to conduct a wide variety of missions of direct interest to the president and congress of the united states. often these missions are classified. the importance in terms of of while other units could not necessarily do these kind of missions is because they usually involve time sensitivity, they require low visibility, they have employee indigenous voices and require regional expertise

including local languages and very high degree of risk. that is why the selection process is so rigorous and the training is so intense. host: also secrecy is critical in any of these operations. all want to ask you about a movie that is getting a lot of attention," act of valor," is too much coming from how hollywood is portraying special operations forces? guest: i have not seen that movie but i have seen the united states navy's public affairs release on the film. since the navy helped make the film and naval special warfare command was directly involved in it, i would think they only portrayed what they felt could be on classified. american special operations forces have a great many capabilities and a number of them are still classified and

will stay that way. host: anyone for my family of army and navy veterans often have a debate over the two divisions in the military. you are a veteran of the army but there is also the navy seals. what are the differences between special operations and navy seals? guest: the journalist max boot hit on the commonalities recently that they share the green berets and the navy seals share courage and extraordinary professionalism. the difference between them is to their parents services, the army and navy. the green berets are focused principally on land warfare. the seals originally, the intent was they supported maritime operations. what has changed over time is because of the focus on two

essentially landlocked countries, iraq which has a small port and afghanistan, the navy seals have gone from being a competent lend forest tenures ago and now they are one of the world's premier land combat forces. they still function presently -- principally with direct action missions which are raids and strikes and a special reconnaissance missions that support that. the green berets tend to be older where navy seals are in their 20s. green berets tend to be in their '30's and their focus is on learning how to work the different cultures, raise up resistance forces or train foreign forces in counterinsurgency and how to defend their own country. host: our guest is joining us from san francisco and earned

his doctorate from harvard university. give us a sense of your own experience. guest: it is fairly common as a special forces officer, i started out in the 82nd airport -- airborne parishes division and went to the rangers. i was in the second ranger battalion. through a number of other assignments and -- in conventional forces in germany and korea i went to special forces, the army's special forces, green berets. the army selects personnel for special forces training from personnel who have already served in the line or in conventional forces. having a good base understanding of how military organizations function helps them train foreign forces so they have a baseline.

officers -- special offer -- special operations forces go through six months of training to get qualified to earn the beret but there is another six months-one year of language training that follows that and a variety of specialized skills that might be, depending on where the officer or sergeant is assigned, the officers and sergeants go for almost identical training. host: our first call is from bend, ore., independent line. caller: good morning, i initially was calling up to notice this gentleman. i am interested in the emphasis on special forces generally speaking because since world war two, i don't think we have been in a conflict or a war that i can think of or special forces

or even necessary. we have spent millions of not trillions of dollars on this type of thing, invading countries all over the world. i guess the point is that we are trying to make sure there is money for special forces or something. i have not seen i have not seen a convincing argument we need to be in iraq, afghanistan, or any of the other places. i would like the gentleman's comment on what i have said. host: thank you, wally. guest: point well made about the territory of the united states been violated by any foreign forces. that is why special operations

forces are part of that. this some sort of arrangement begins is some sort of arrangement that prevents american forces from operating in the country. this precipitated the accelerated withdrawal of u.s. forces from iraq. the agreement cannot be settled to be advantageous enough to the united states in terms of legal protections for members of the american armed forces in iraq. the value of special operations forces in the range of force -- of wars, special operations forces have almost always been involved since world war ii.

not as the centerpiece necessarily, but often in critical roles. that is how they continue today. less than 2% of the overall forces of the united states, but they still have particular rules and missions other forces are not capable of that support the united states' interests. counter-terrorism right now being chief among them. host: you can join the conversation on twitter. how do you feel about contractors and their increasing role in war zones? is this good or bad for the u.s. military? guest: let me separate those. contractors have been involved in support of military operations for over a century.

very notably during the second world war. armed contractors are another matter. in some rules supporting the state department and for embassy security, for missions abroad, sometimes they are useful but they can be problematic in terms of legal controls over them. i have my own opinions about this. i go back to machiavelli from medieval italy who did not at all like to use them and found them on helpful -- unhelpful.

caller: i have a question for mr. sepp. how does he think our special forces and asymmetrical workgroup -- war group compares with the russians? guest: there is a difference in capabilities between countries. it is what they intended to use them for. the russian special units were developed during the second world war and came to prominence during the cold war. they were employed extensively in the soviet afghan war in the 1980's. they're very effective reading forces.

-- they were very effective raiding forces but are not directly comparable to the american special forces. in what the russians intend to use them for, they are competent, very professional, if forced to be reckoned with -- a force to be reckoned with. host: our guest is a former lieutenant colonel in the u.s. army special forces, also a veteran of the defense department. he is now teaching at the u.s. naval postgraduate school. he is in san francisco. i want to share with you will let -- i want to share with you what admiral mcraven shared about this issue. [video clip] >> in the pacific, africa, latin america, and other regions the

unique skills, cultural knowledge, and ability to work with partners creates effects far above our small numbers. these international engagements are done with the support and approval of the combat commanders. host: your reaction to the depth of the operation? guest: before 9/11, special operations forces were involved in more countries than the 78 which is a considerable number. there are just over 150 countries in the united nations. what he is indicating is there is going to be a shift in employment of his special operations forces as the drawdown from barack concludes -- from iraq concludes and the

drawdown in afghanistan is affected over the next several years. what he has laid out is one of the reasons the larger armed forces are going to have to deal with a five hitter dollar million budget cut over the next several years a $500 million budget cut over the next several years. they will have a phenomenal increase in their funding. that is still only 1.7% of the armed forces budget. it is very effectively used. host: don from pittsburg, kan., joins us. caller: the united states is becoming rotten, hollow out in part supporting thug regimes in

places we have no business. we are collapse in our infrastructure. we are 27 in life expectancy, 57 in press freedom. the litany goes on and on. of course they need special forces to enforce their will around the world. china will rule. we will become a vassal state. perhaps a regional power. host: how do you respond to that sentiment? guest: special operations in their current employment is not to do the bidding of some imperial ministers but to protect the constitution of the united states and serve the people of the united states through the laws laid down by elected elite -- elected

leaders. there is oversight of special operations forces. that was one of my job as a political appointee in the pentagon. congress has a number of close oversight's on these operations. the mission and one of the lessons that has come out of iraq and afghanistan was learned already in vietnam. the role of the armed forces should not be to fight for other people everywhere in the world but to get them to fight for their own country. the lesson of the expense of blood and treasure in iraq and afghanistan tells us the way to approach the defense of american interests around the world is through hoping partners and allies instead of trying to be the fighting force.

host: emma has this question from our twitter page. is this correct? guest: i have not read mr. clarke's book. the iranians have been respected special operations force, a component of the revolutionary guard, that operates internationally. they would travel abroad much as the soviets did during the cold war and as the chinese do now. it would be very possible. host: patty joins us on the

republican line from seattle. caller: the military has been there forever and ever. i feel like we're there for a reason. for all these years, we have never had problems with them being there. now all of a sudden starting with carter, we are shipping in immigrants that do not believe in the united states and our christian voice -- christian ways. i believe in the military. i have family in the military from way back when. it breaks my heart when i hear this garbage. thank you. guest: if the caller -- i am very glad she is proud of her family connectivity to the military.

my father served in the military. my sons are serving now. if this is about an issue of religion, the only thing and would point out is that inside the armed forces -- the only thing i would point out is that inside the armed forces, churches, synagogues, and mosques, places of worship are maintained in the military. there is a core of religious leaders, the chopin's corporation the big to -- there is a core of religious leaders, , thataplain's corps served by law. i am not sure there is a degradation of the importance of religion in the armed forces of the united states. host: if you are listening on c- span radio, our guest is kalev

sepp, a veteran of the u.s. army, our focus is special operations. this is an e-mail from one of our viewers. was the osama bin laden assassination an anomaly? guest: it is an interesting question. i am not sure if the writer understands the point of the term "assassination." the mission in the bin laden raid was to capture or kill this criminal whose intent was to

continue to plan and conduct attacks to kill american citizens. the operation was successful. finding him was a central intelligence agency operations. they found him. a military force detailed to the agency found him and in the fight, ended up killing him. there were a number of other personnel, family members who were captured and survived the raid. it was not an assassination. there are very specific clause -- laws that govern the armed forces and the national

intelligence committee of the united states that forbid assassination. host: our guest served as one of the experts on the baker hamilton commission that looked into our involvement in iraq. stephanie is on the phone. good morning. caller: i would like to ask mr. sepp if it is true it was the american special forces that instigated the arab spring and now. is going on in syria me guest: it is an intriguing question about what impelled the arab spring. the scholars are work with who are genuinely least experts who

have lived in the region, constantly visit and study in the region, they are unanimous in seeing this as very much a homegrown and natural uprising in the arab countries. host: a picture of the helicopter that went down in the capture and killing of osama bin laden, one of our viewers asks how many secret wars we are fighting. guest: almost nothing is secret in the current electronic media environment we operate in. i understand that secrecy is so much a part of special operations and being absolutely

necessary for the survival of the forces as they conduct missions. it is their armor, so to speak. because of that, it lends a sense, the idea that other things are being hidden when these missions are conducted. everything being done it is known to the appropriate congressional committees in the house and senate, in large measure because they fund these. the operations -- the place where the reader could look to study some of this is the congressional research service. most of this is unclassified and laid out clearly. there are a series of histories

of special operations command. there are few missions that remain classified to this day. they have been written about in a number of media sources. i do not know that there is very much that is actually secret. host: can you explain the relationship between the conventional forces in the non- conventional, special forces? guest: this is one of the great success stories of the two long wars we have been fighting. they used to see themselves as separate communities. the intensity and duration of the fighting in iraq and afghanistan have pushed the forces together. they support each other.

special operations forces can operate -- cannot operate without the conventional forces with the support, logistics, intelligence analysis. correspondingly for conventional forces, the infantry forces in the army and marines, the intelligence special operations forces can provide to them can be invaluable. also learning how to operate in the environments they do. 10 years ago, the urban combat teams of special operations forces were you need -- were unique in their equipment and tactics.

as an infantry squad, they carry the same equipment and use the same tactics in urban combat that special operations forces pioneered the use of. it is a salutary relationship. host: janet is next on the phone from miami. go ahead. caller: i read the cia wants to annex the special operations and seals forces to be under their control. is this an insult to the seals and special operations that they would become the infantry of the cia? it would just enable them to run covert wars on a larger scale than they do now. guest: i am fairly certain i know what you are talking about.

this was closely discussed, the concept you are describing. it already occurs on a smaller scale. it is a positive and mutually supporting relationship between the central intelligence agency and special operations forces. this was being considered as a possible way for in afghanistan recently. there was a small planning cell that was developing the idea. according to kimberly dozier of the associated press, the cell was stood down a week ago. admiral mcraven and the general

of central command who has the afghan war in his theater of operations have said the idea of putting -- habitually associating armed forces, special operations forces come under central intelligence agency control in the long term is not going to happen. as i mentioned earlier to another caller, the bin laden was a central intelligence a unitoperation that had of navy seals detailed to them to conduct the actual raid in pakistan to attack the bin laden compound to attempt to kill or

capture him. that is how these two agencies of the american government can and do work together harmoniously. host: part of what admiral mcraven said on capitol hill is available in our c-span library. john is on the phone from mississippi. caller: are like to -- i would like to thank c-span and kalev sepp for his patriotism and the armed forces. i think they're all heroes, all of them. one of your callers said something about if we work on like we do over there

in covert operations. could that ever happen here? i do not see that happening in the united states. tell me, maybe it could. host: thank you. we will get a response. guest: special operations forces deal with overseas operations. they're focused on character terrorism efforts -- their focus from counter-terrorism efforts. they're focused on stopping the kind of a taxi is talking about. they are forces that operate around the world right now that are hunting down terrorists and extremist organizations ploting these kinds of attacks.

if the caller was referring to sovereign countries that may be planning attacks against the united states, we have enemies better probably calculating that. during the cold war, the soviets planned that sort of attack. in addition to our military forces, another one of the changes that has occurred over the last 10 years is a terrific increase in the security of the united states through all the agencies that exist under homeland defense from the fbi, transportation security agency, coast guard, naturalization agencies. all of these look to protect the united states against attack. host: jim is on the phone from trenton, mich..

caller: my concern is with the enemies that are in this country that have broken laws to uphold the constitution. they told leon panetta there were no longer viable and did not need to go in front of them. i wondered how you felt about that. guest: the national counter- terrorism center works -- i can tell you from my time working in the counterterrorism strategy group in the white house that suspected terrorists that are believed to be operating inside the united states are being closely watched and cases are being billed against them. i was immensely impressed by the operations of the national

counterterrorism center and the federal bureau of investigation in pursuing these suspects, often very successfully. host: what was the most difficult thing you had to endure in order to be a member of the special forces? guest: the training for army special forces, the key to it was that you were constantly tested passed the physical piece. you can build yourself up to that and get through it. the tests of the scenarios you were put through constantly in training, there was no win or lose. it was constantly lose/lose scenarios. you were driven to try to pick the least bad course of action to follow.

the reality of that based on the world war ii experiences and the. middle the paramilitary forces, this was all real. the graduates in the field will tell you that never changes. it is never a happy solution to things. it is always the least bad approach you have to take. this was very difficult to adapt to. when you master it, as linda robinson had written, then you can become a master of chaos. host: kalev sepp, a veteran of the defense department, joining us from san francisco. thank you for being with us on c-span. we appreciate your perspective. we will continue the conversation tomorrow morning as we do every day ana "washington journal -- as we do every day on

th"washington journal." the president and chairman of the u.s. import-export bank and what is next in baghdad. "washington journal" gets under way every day at 7:00 eastern. enjoy the rest of your weekend. i hope you have a great week ahead. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> next, "newsmakers"with carl vi