washington bureau chief, and lauren ashburn will discuss the impact of social media on the presidential campaign. and then barry kluger, author of "a life on don" talks about efforts to -- talks about the family medical leave act and coverage of parental bereavement. >> today we fouled and information charging george zimmerman with murder of the second degree. host: here is how the george zimmerman charge is being played in the morning newspapers. here is "the florida times union" out of jacksonville. she went on to say we prosecute based on the facts in any given case as well as the laws of the state of florida.

here is "the miami herald" this morning.

we want to get your reaction to zimmerman being charged with second-degree murder. you can make your comments on our twitter page by choosing to charge george

zimmerman with second-degree murder in the killing of trayvon martin, the special prosecutor appointed to the case in florida selected the toughest possible charge involving the killing, short of first-degree murder, which requires a final premeditation and carries the death penalty as a possible punishment.

your reaction to the charge of second-degree murder for george zimmerman. we are going to begin with j anner in new orleans good morning. . caller: good morning. i'm glad that george zimmerman was arrested. i hope the justice system will play out and that he will be convicted of second-degree murder.

i also was glad this brings to mind the stand your ground law. that is also a law in louisiana. i hope this will cause the politicians to repeal this law, because it should never have been passed. host: our next call comes from phoenix. sarah, you are on. caller: hi. i am grateful for c-span because it is not political. i want to say how grateful i am that this is something we are talking about. my concern is george zimmerman's he says he killed the 17-year-old because he thought he was suspicious.

for people to kill a young boy in cold blood and you don't really see compassion, you don't really see remorse. that is the scary part. i am ready for justice to be served and for people to love each other. host: from the new york daily news --

and here's the front page of the washington times -- stephen in new jersey, you are on. what are your thoughts? caller: i think they went with the more severe charge because of all the publicity. he should be charged with manslaughter because i don't think it was intentional. it is cause and effect. i think they were pushed to do

this because of all the publicity to go with the. most severe the guest: on our facebook page a lot of people are starting to comment. let's read some of those. sheila says second degree, not first, sounds about right, but i have no idea how it will. will -- how it will result.

and some of our facebook comments there. frank in phoenix, you are on. caller: good morning, c-span. my opinion is, considering the hundreds of millions of guns we have in this country, i don't think the standard ground law makes a lot of sense. another thing, we have seen the same thing with rodney king, o.j. simpson. as citizens, i plead with our citizens to stand up and let due process take its course, let the facts come out in court, because we are compromising our ability to exercise due process efficiently.

we have to let the courts decide and let the lawyers and judge and jury do their job. host: john is a republican in chantilly, virginia, in the suburbs. what are your thoughts about the zimmerman case? caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. it is not a lot. it is the people of using a lot. that is the problem we have in this country. i think that what happens is very sad, but the reality is now that the man is in custody, we should wait and let the courts do their job. it's a sad day when we are killing our own children, but the reality is we have to wait and see what the courts will do about this law. thanks for taking my call. host: al sharpton righwrites --

trayvon's killing is not a murder case. on the line now -- caller: thanks for taking my call. this is a very good show. i don't necessarily think that the trayvon martin shooting was racially. i do think it was more cultural- motivated as far as him seeing somebody wearing a hoodie. i do believe if trayvon martin had on a shirt and tie that he

would not have been shot. i disagree with the guy that said it was just like a car accident. the only way you can liken this to a car accident it's if this was a person drinking that gets behind the wheel. he knew exactly what he was doing. the dispatcher told him to get back and he never should have followed him. it was a cultural disadvantage on trayvon's part when he saw trayvon wearing the hoodie. he was ethnically motivated by the clothing. it was murdered. pure murder. host: and from the new york times, an editorial --

our next call comes from james, a republican in mississippi. you are on. your reaction? caller: good morning. fulton, mississippi.

i don't think it is the law that caused this boy to get killed and i don't think it is the gun. whatever way it turns out, the gun and the law to protect yourself did not cause this. if the man was not protecting himself, he is guilty. if he was, he is not guilty. now, everything you all do on c- span, you are running for the democrats and obama's people. i am an american citizen, too. who pays for your tv? that's what i want to know. your boss has advertisements

paying for theirs. host: are you asking rhetorically? caller: i am looking for an answer. i think the democrat or the government pays for you. host: probably the democrats that have cable help to pay for us. we have no government funding. we never have taken a nickel of government funding. if you have cable, we get about a nickel of it that of your monthly bill. that is how we are funded. we are funded and founded by the cable companies, satellite providers. that is how we are paid for. we are private organization. we are nonprofit. thanks for the call. if now we move on to a democrat in florida, callie.

caller: i think it was correct, the trayvon martin case was a tragedy, but this happens in florida all the time. in flagwood beach, a man was shot to death by his neighbor, five times shot in the chest. the unarmed man was complaining to the shooter about his barking dog. the man went out and shot him, killed him, if the police did not arrest the shooter until two days later if because this man paul miller was threatened and frightened. this happens all the time. let's face it, this case in sanford would have been swept under the rug if it were not for the media getting involved. there would have been no special investigator. governor scott was forced to do the right thing. a judge could still decide that zimmerman should be let free because of this stupid law.

let's not forget, zimmermann's father is a judge and is very influential. host: here's the front page or the cover of the new york post new this morning. jaleel tweets -- and mike -- and here's a comment from jody -- next call from inverness, florida, ralph is on our independent line. caller: good morning, steve. this is one of the dumbest laws

ever enacted. if i wanted to kill you, all i would have to do is shoot you dead, punch myself real hard in the nose and that's it. they cannot arrest me and i get away with murder. it is that simple. this law is utterly stupid. thank you. host: back to the new york times, this will decide article by john shorts. the case will almost certainly include a pretrial hearing to determine whether the state --

caller: trayvon martin comes from a generation of young black men that are really at not adherent to the lot and not respectful of people. he was in a private community. it is not uncommon for someone to say can i help you, are you lost? i would like you to show trayvon martin's twitter account handle. it is a racist remark he made about himself. there's nothing that indicates that mr. zimmerman is a racist. recently we have an unarmed black man attacking a white guy in baltimore, knocked him

unconscious. while whole group of black guys are laughing, they are beating the guy and stripping him in the street. this is something that we all observe. being 17 years old does not mean he is a weak and helpless person. i would like the facts to come out on this. if it is true mr. zimmerman was attacked, then mr. martin got the bad end of the deal, kind of like those guys that attacked bernard goetz several years ago in new york. host: deborah is a democrat in chesapeake beach, virginia. caller: good morning to c-span. i would think the stand your ground laws don't take into account incidents like this where someone possibly could have some type of mental illness or they could use it for their own means or for whatever

reason. it could be racial or otherwise. they did themselves and then claim self-defense. like one of the other caller said, zimmermann pursued him after being told not to. so how can he then claim self- defense after pursuing someone? i can understand the intent behind the law in regard to your personal safety, your property, around your home. you have of absolutely every right to defend yourself. but if you are going after someone you suspect and it is just a look of suspicion, you cannot claim it it. host: here are some e-mails we have received on this topic.

and an e-mail from seattle --

ben is a republican in phoenix. caller: how are you this morning? this is similar to casey anthony in that there are two people that know what happened. one of them is dead and the other is not going to tell us. the reality is there's absolutely no evidence. i am as right wing republican as you can get. i feel bad about this whole thing and i'm embarrassed about what a republican said on the show earlier this morning. you have a jury of people that have families and kids and they may find this guy guilty. if they don't, it will have nothing to do with anything except they don't have any evidence. it is ridiculous to say he cannot get a fair trial. casey anthony, zero days since and, these people were found not guilty and everybody knew them. -- casey anthony and o.j.

simpson, found not guilty and everybody knew who they work. you have a bunch of democrats saying he was killed because he was black. and you have republicans saying stuff. you cannot keep saying it is about black and then 10 minutes later say we want to be treated fairly. it does not work that way. the reality is this never should have gotten this far. there's no evidence. you should not bring cases without evidence. host: from "politico" new this morning --

this is in "politico." sarah palin pays for prime real

estate at the gop convention -- and from the tampa bay times, more political news. bill nelson has seven times more campaign dollars as --

next call comes from atlanta, scott on our independent line, go ahead. caller: good morning, how are you? listening to you on serious syrius. i have already passed three police officers on the side of the road with a radar gun trying to collect revenue. if the police officers were actually out there handling the neighborhoods, taking care of petty crime. as your police officer friends when happens with petty crime and most of them go unsolved. the people that break into your car, these crimes are generally never solved. therefore, it makes stand your ground laws where you have to

pretty much protect yourself. it has gone crazy, specifically in georgia. it's all about revenue collection and there's no crime fighting. the police officers have to get the revenue in order to keep their jobs, basically. i am not saying zimmerman was right or wrong. that is for a judge to decide. i am ashamed of the way al sharpton is handling this in the media. everybody has an opinion and nobody knows the facts. if he killed the guy in cold blood, the justice system will work the way it has for 200 years and he will pay for it. if it was self-defense, that is something else. that's why those laws are totally needed. because people feel threatened. you cannot count on the police officers anymore. it's all about revenue collection and. if you don't believe me, look when you are driving to work today. police officers on the side of the road collecting revenue as

opposed to it fighting crimes. host: we will leave it there. from the hill newspaper -- the fabric of shooting death of trayvon martin and last week's

fatal rampage at a religious college in oakland, that was from the hill newspaper. --other news

we will talk about that issue with our two guests coming up. howard kurtz and lauren ashburn, talking about social media and the internet and politics. margaret in manchester, new jersey, you are on the air, a democrat. caller: to the people who said that the courts do what they have to do, i agree. however, let's also remember, if it was not such a public outcry, that mr. zimmerman close the immediate release was out and these charges, we would not now be at that stage where we can permit the courts to do with a half to do. thank you. host: abc news this morning -- that's abc news, in case you

would like to read that for yourself. and a fox news mole reveals himself -- the next call on the zimmerman- martin case comes from fort wayne, indiana on the republican line, thomas. >> there's no way he's going to get a fair trial. you have all of these negroes screaming for violence for the death of this guy's zimmerman. i know it's upsetting to the news that this guy's zimmerman is not quite so they cannot keep talking about it is a hate crime by a white person. you have the black panthers and al sharpton already running in

the streets calling for violence. where is all of the people calling for stability when negroes are killing each other in the cities by tens of thousands and the news deliberately leaves out the part of when the police asked the guy what color is the, is the white or black, and then zimmerman response that i think he's black? there's no way to get it. where is the district attorney to prosecute all of these racist, hateful negros calling for the death of white people? the fact of the matter is the negro's in all the major cities are slaughtering each other by the thousands. host: we have your point. representative john mica said on wednesday --

and from "politico," --

if you would like to see that debate, c-span coverage yesterday. you can go to c-span.org and you can watch it on line at your own convenience. in the washington post -- joan is on the independent line from asheville. -- nashville. caller: whenever a situation like this occurs, you hear whites accused african- americans of playing the race card when in reality it is whites who created the race

card. they keep it in play all the time. the reason that you have african-americans killing african-americans in the numbers that we do is because of the hopelessness caused by white racism. mr. zimmerman, in spite of his skin color, is an honorary white person. so you can say that in terms of black and white. and as far as trayvon being killed because he was wearing a hoodie, black men wearing suits and ties have also been killed. what was the excuse then? dr. martin luther king always had on a suit and tie and he was murdered. so what was the excuse then? it was the color of his skin.

host: electronic books busted, this is the headline in several newspapers this morning. and this story in the wall street journal --

that's in the wall street journal this morning. next call comes from michigan. brian on our democrat line. george zimmerman has been charged with second-degree murder, what are your thoughts? caller: i think it's overdue. he needs to have his day in court like everyone else. i also think this has become a distraction in the news, 24-hour news cycle, in that the public [unintelligible] they did this to distract from the president trying to raise millionaires' tax rates. all of this is a smokescreen. host: lorn is a republican in

los angeles, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a few comments permit listing to the callers, i find -- i don't understand how people can make assumptions of guilt or innocence without knowing the facts. there's no doubt in my mind, by the media coverage of this, that is what prompted an arrest in the case. i think that the officers that were on the scene the night of the crime chose not to charge mr. zimmerman. he was arrested that evening. he was taken in based on the evidence. so much hype that has built up in this case has led to this arrest. i honestly think this is a move for public opinion and to save face. regarding one comment that a young lady made regarding this is about whites and blacks and whites alike to throw the race ke to throw the race

card. every time there's a white guy shot, we don't have an al sharpton speaking on it. this is a tragedy not, but the media should be focusing on the serious issues that are facing our country, the fiscal, the financial crisis and many more pertinent issues facing this country. let him have his day in court. we should not assume guilt or innocence, because we don't have the fax. we don't know the ballistics. host: thank you. new york times --

today, jacksonville, florida, jerry is on the independent line. caller: thank you. i agree with the last caller.

you don't hear the outrage when a white person is killed by a black, which is a shame. to give you an example about seven years ago in jacksonville, a white child about 14 years old was shot and killed by a black ford is jim shoes -- for his gym shoes. it's like we have to let this go to trial and everybody wn.ldow do host: this comment from steve on our facebook page -- a couple of final articles before we move on to our next segment with steven moore.

here is "usa today" -- this is in the new york times -- finally, usa today --

coming up in just a minute, steven moore of the wall street journal editorial page will be here and we will be talking about the buffett rule and tax rates and economics and campaigns, and so on. first, yesterday at the the newseum in washington, d.c., the

only a fool you are women who have served on the supreme court gathered at the supreme court historical society mark the 30th anniversary of retired justice sandra day o'connor posing initial term. she was asked if it was her goal to become a justice. here's what she had to say. >> was a goal of yours to become a justice? >> heavens no. it certainly was not. [laughter] i was not sure what i ought to do, because it is alright to be the first to do something, but i did not want to be the last woman on the supreme court. >> thank goodness for that. >> if i took the job and did a lousy job, it would take a long time to get another one. it made me very nervous. >> you paved the way for some great justices. when did you? first think? -- when did you first think about it?

>> he sent kenneth starr and some other people to arizona to talk to me. they would not say what it was for. it could've been some cabinet post or something like that. if they would not tell me. we had some nice visits, but they did a lot of homework out there. they have gone through all my papers. i observed in all three branches. so i had a big paper trail they had to go through, i guess. >> who were your role models? >> for what? [laughter] >> you were a trailblazer, so i guess you were the role model for everyone else. >> washington journal continues. i wanted to about an op- ed in the washington post. he is a hedge fund managers and

member of the patriotic millionaires for fiscal strength. he writes -- guest: i do know him. by the way, great to see you again.

i was on a tv show with him yesterday. i asked him the question if you want to pay more taxes, why don't you just go ahead and do it? i think there are lots of liberal hypocrites' that's a want to pay higher taxes. there's nothing preventing them from paying higher taxes. second, there is a methodology about how much rich people pay. because we have had this overcharge rhetoric about the rich not paying their fair share in taxes, if a lot of people don't know who is paying the burden. i did a recent study and we looked at the data from the irs. we found the richest 0.1% pay of federal tax rate of 27%. the average middle-class family pays an average federal tax rate close to 14%. there's very few very rich

people paying a lower federal tax rate than a middle class secretary or plumber. the average tax rate on a millionaire is twice as high as the tax rate on the secretary. the other point that is interesting is if you look at the richest 1% in america today, the people like bill gates, one buffett, they pay about 40% of the total income tax burden their debts more than any time in the last 40 years or 50 years. i did that the rich are not paying their fair share of is not borne out by the evidence. host: he goes on to write -- guest: look, i think this is a

flawed way of looking at the budget. we have had the biggest spending spree in the history of this country under president obama. the $800 billion stimulus plan of overspending. hundreds of billions of dollars of mortgage modification, bailout of the automobile industry and bailout of the bank's. i think most americans look at the scandal going on right now with the gsa, a waste of money and say before start talking about raising taxes on american families of, whether its rich, middle class, or the poor people, if why don't we get federal spending under control? the problem in washington today is overspending, not that we are not collecting enough revenue. the real problem i have with the buffett rule is i don't see how you can grow the economy if we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. you spoke about this the other day, but the u.s. is number one in terms of the highest corporate tax rate.

under the buffett rule, we would have the third or fourth highest capital gains tax in the world. the buffett rule double the capital gains rate to 30%. i'm interested in competitiveness, how we can bring money and factories back to the u.s. so companies are creating jobs in the u.s. that i don't see how you do that if you are raising tax rates if we above the average of industrial countries that we compete with. china, india, germany, france, and those countries. host: finally, whitney tilson writes --

guest: that's true. there's no question about that. if you have a dysfunctional government, it is hard for an economy to private. but it's also true that if you think about countries that have much bigger government than we do, countries like greece, spain, italy, portugal, those countries have bankrupted themselves. they are going over a cliff. one of the points i make is we have to get our debts and overspending under control. that means we have to look at programs like medicare, medicaid. we should be talking about fundamental reforms to social security. we cannot continue to borrow $1.20 trillion per year. that's not a formula for success. it starts are reining in government spending. host: is mitt romney the right man to carry that message for the republicans? guest: good question. it's a tough question. he better be, because he is the

only one left standing. i believe that he may be mr. and good enough, as we once called him. i think that means there are better spokesman in the republican party. there are many stars like marco rubio of florida and paul ryan of wisconsin. chris christie, the new jersey governor, who gave a speech the other day in new york, those guys are superstars fans are more gifted or torus than mitt romney. mitt romney is not the most charismatic guy. -- those guys are more gifted orators. but he is now a better candidate after getting roughed up by gingrich and the others. this election will be simple. when people go into the voting booth on november 4, if they will ask a simple question -- can we afford a full year or more years of these policies?

can we continue to have 8% unemployment? and national debt that grows by $1 trillion meatier? i'm not sure we can. that's the case mitt romney has to make, that this is a ruinous course that we are on and we need a regime change and a correction. host: steven moore is a member of the editorial board for the wall street journal. yesterday's lead editorial in the newspaper, the obama rulwe was one that was authored by him -- guest: the thing that is disappointing to me about the book could rule debate we're having is i really believe we

need to reform the tax system. i agree with the president that is not fair that a millionaire pays a lower tax rates than a secretary. but the way to fix that is through something that's steve forbes and dick armey talk about 15 years ago which is a flat tax. get rid of the multiple rates. tax everybody at the same rates. get rid of the loopholes and pollution in the tax system. you get tax breaks for buying energy-efficient toasters and investing in windmills and things like that. let's get rid of all that. one of the reasons a lot of " the people pay a lower rate is because there are so many loopholes that they are taking advantage of. this is the point the president makes and treasury secretary tim geithner makes that i agree with. if so let's get rid of that and get the rate as low as possible? and let's make america as competitive as possible. let's have -- let's make america the lowest tax rate country in the world and not the highest.

host: steven moore is our guest for the next 40 minutes. the numbers are up on the screen if you would like to participate in our conversation about economics, taxes, etc. mike is on the republican line from la plata, maryland. caller: i was wanting to get this in. the attitude that taxing the rich and continuing to reach into their pockets is somehow going to solve the problem is largely a symbolic gesture. the amount of money that the rich have, even if you seized all of it -- forget about just taxing them -- if you could just seize all of their money and apply it all to the deficit, you would not make a significant dent in it, because they are spending far more money than is even available. what they have done is introduce

an argument that does not hold any water. i just ran across some statistics. in 2009, there were 8700 people that made $10 million according to the irs that year. those people made a total of $240 billion. that's a lot of money for. them to for when you think that is a small fraction of the population that made that money. if you could seize all of that income, the federal deficit for that year still would have been 1400 billion dollars. guest: that's a good points. this gentleman knows his stuff and he's exactly right. it is symbolic. this does not have anything to do with reducing the deficit. by my calculations, if if we put

a bucket w -- but the buffett rule, we would reduce the federal deficit by $5 million, that means we would reduce the deficit by less than 0.5%. that means we're left with 99.5% of the deficit still there. even if this gentleman makes an important point. even if we confiscated at eighth 100% rate all the money of every millionaire we would not be limited the budget deficit. if people come to the conclusion that we need to raise taxes, and i do not believe we need to, if we do, that means we tax the middle class because that is where most of the money in this country is. one of the biggest deficiencies of this argument is that it turns out if you look at the irs

statistics this gentleman was talking about, two-thirds of the people in the highest income tax territory are small business owners, investors. when i debate liberal economist friends i always ask them how you are going to create more jobs for the u.s. economy, if you take more money out of the businesses that create the jobs. i've never heard a good answer on that question. host: this tweet -- most middle- class folks depend on ordinary dividends to supplement their income. the buffett rule will hurt them in the long run. caller: the good morning. the bush tax cuts need to end for the wealthy and the middle class, and there is nothing wrong with millionaires pay in 30%.

all of these poor people, calling in, defending rich people, remember that you will never be a millionaire. keep defending them what you are poor. i want your taxes to go up, too. guest: this gentleman makes an interesting point. he says your kids will never be rich. it is true that only 0.9% of americans ever become millionaires, but what is great everybody hopes they someday will be rich. it could happen to anyone. i love the story about these gentlemen that started this fall an application. host: instagram? guest: right. it could happen to you, it could happen to anyone.

the point where i disagree with this gentleman is if you make it rich, and i think about people like my father who built up a small business and he did become a dog in their after all long time, if the government can then come in and take over 50% of the money, i think most americans think that is anti-american. we should not confiscate the wealth of people because they have become successful. what we need is more successful people. we need more millionaires. if you increase the capital gains tax, you will make it harder for expiring entrepreneurs to raise the capital to start this review these businesses. host: stephen moore, president obama had this to say about economics. [video clip]

a lot of folks were peddling these trickle-down theories, including some folks in congress, and people running for a certain office that should not be named. they are doubling down on these trickle-down theories. instead of moderating their views, even slightly, or saying it did not work, we'll set a second great depression, and maybe we should try something different. guest: they did work. that is completely wrong. the president needs a history lesson. three of the greatest growth decades were the 1920's, the 1960's, and the 1980's. yet all of those -- in all of those we cut tax rates significantly. the economy boomed, and everyone got richer. that happened in the 1920's under calvin coolidge, in the 1960's under john f. kennedy,

and in the 1980's under ronald reagan. arthur lefferts is famous for showing that sometimes when you cut tax rates you get more revenue. that could happen again. we could strategically cut tax rates to make america a place where people want to invest in. we will bring jobs back. i am optimistic about the economy. if we do then do these big tax increases, but we reform our tax system, i think the u.s. economy is ready for a big boom, but the tax increase that will happen on january 1, 2013, i think that could cause a double dip recession. host: fran in oswego, new york, writes in an e-mail.

guest: one of the reasons i loved doing your show is you have an intelligent viewers. i think she is excess clear right. ultimately, if you increase -- exactly right. altman we, businesses will pass on texas to people that buy the product. i like the idea of the fair tax. i worked with herman cain when he was devising a tax plan, and we work together and came up with the idea of a 9-9-9 plan. i think that is a great idea. system't we devise a tax that makes america the one place in the world everyone wants to

invest in because we have the lowest rates? here is the problem i would have with the fair tax. i know there are fair tax fanatics, and i like the idea conceptually, but i'm not so sure you could have a 23% national sales tax. a 9% celotex could work. host: this e-mail. guest: this is exactly the point that i am making. we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, but there are some many loopholes in the system that companies like westinghouse and other major companies can find ways to pay nothing. i say let's get rid of the loopholes. general electric paid a very low tax rate because they took the advantage of green energy tax credits. get rid of them, yet the rate

to 15%, 20%, and we will see more corporate tax collection but have an efficient economy. host: we have been talking about tax reform for years. do you foresee it? guest: i was here in 1986. it was a miracle when that happened. we got the rebound to 28% -- the rate down to 28%. we get rid of most of the deductions. by the way, that past 97-3 in the senate. even the vast majority of democrats voted for a 28% tax rate. in the house had passed by a big margin as well. can we see that happen? yes. i think you could see a deal

where republicans say let's get rid of the loopholes, democrats say we could lower the rate. what i find disturbing about the buffett rule, barack obama said ronald reagan did this, but the difference is ronald reagan wanted to cut the rate. the reason the buffett rule is such a bad idea is it raises the rates, which makes america less efficient. host: the next call for stephen moore comes from new york city. rob. you're on the air. caller: the bush tax cuts did not work. look at the economy today, and you could see that. second, no one pays more than 30%, and stephen moore, he said they are paying 38%.

he is paying 14% stashing billions in offshore accounts. guest: i am glad he asked this question. it is true if you look at mitt romney's tax returns, which he released a couple of months ago, his effective tax rate was 14%. by the way, that is only the federal income tax. he did pay payroll tax, gasoline taxes, state taxes, and so on. moving at a side, the reason we have a lower tax rate on capital gains and dividends is because we also have a corporate tax. if you have a company that makes $100 million in income, 35% is taken out at the corporate level and passed on to the individual. this is the argument we made to president bush in 2003 when he

passed the tax cut. we should either have a corporate tax or a capital gains tax, but you should not tax both. i disagree with the gentleman when he says the bush tax cuts did not work. if you look at what happened we had a very bellini economy. we created 8 million jobs -- booming economy. which created 8 million jobs. a housing bubble caused the collapse. when i say to my democratic friends to say what a failure the bush tax cuts work, i say what about the stimulus plan? we've had the worst decade since the 1930's so far. we are running trillion dollar deficits. we have a mortgage foreclosure problem. i do not see anyone -- anything anyone can point to that says

obama policies have made things better. host: george w. bush spoke. [video clip] first of all, -- >> the first of all, 70% of new jobs in america are created by small business owners. it is one of the things that makes the economy sell vital. most small business pays tax at the individual income tax level. therefore, if you raise taxes on the so-called rich, you are really raising taxes on the job creators. if the goal is private sector growth, you have to recognize that the best way to create that growth is to leave capitol in the treasuries of the job creators. guest: i agree. my old boss, dick armey, is

famous for saying the liberals love jobs, but they hear employers. if you want more jobs, you need vibrant employers. you need people taking rest. that is one reason we need a low capital gains tax. 70% of the jobs come from small businesses, and it is also true that two out of three small businesses fail. most of the time they cannot work. some of the most successful did not succeed the first time. a lot of times they failed then finally got it right. that is what we need. we need risk taking. it is the american dream, starting your own business. it is hard to do that when taxes are high. the higher taxes on the rich are taxes on small businesses. host: if you would like to see all of george w. bush's speech

in new york city, you can go to c-span.org. neo me in norman, okla., thank you for holding. caller: in good morning. if mr. warren buffett wants to be credible, why does he not paid a $1 billion in back taxes that his corporation owes? guest: i did not now the facts about that, but i will say this, a lot of these people like warren buffett, these millionaires for higher taxes, are hypocritical. if they want to pay higher taxes, they should pay higher taxes. if you want to pay more taxes, you are certainly permitted to do so. none of these people do.

the truth is they want other people to pay higher taxes, not themselves. you have these hypocrites because very few of them pay more than they're supposed to. host: this e-mail. default is a great question. ireland is -- guest: it is a great question. ireland is a great case study. they cut corporate tax rates to the lowest in the world, and then you had this incredible boom in ireland for almost 20 years. they became an eventual of europe. in fact, some many businesses -- the kind of jewel of europe. in fact, so many businesses were

moving into ireland, the rest of the european union started to complain. it was a big success. ireland got a lot of jobs. the economy boomed. it is true when our economy crashed, their economy crashed, too. i think it was because their banking systems were not regulated. they had a lot of over- investment in housing. it was a classic collapse. the worst thing ireland could do is raise their tax rate. this is the one thing causing a come back. they still have the most attractive taxes for businesses to move to. pharmaceutical companies and others have move to ireland. on balance, that is what we need for the united states. if we lower our corporate tax rate, businesses and factories

moved here. host: another e-mail. guest: that is interesting. one of the things about the tax code that is problematic -- i am s anti-tax as anyone, you know that, but one of the big deficiencies of our tax code is 40% of americans pay no federal income tax at all. i believe if you work in this country, are a voter and a citizen, everyone should pay some income tax, so everyone has some skin in the game. i think it is your duty to pay some tax. i think one of the problems when you take more americans off of the income tax rolls, for that segment of the population, government becomes free.

the politicians say we could have medicare, medicaid, obama- care, then people say give me more because they do not pay for it. this is one of the problems with our tax system. everybody should pay some tax. why don't we have a system where everyone has to pay 1% of their gross income? it is a controversial idea, but it would mean every american has some skinny in the game. host: this tweet . niel, but democrats line in fayetteville, north carolina. caller: good morning. there is something i wanted to clear up. your guest is confused, or the

callers are can fool -- confused. the president is not saying the buffett rule will solve our tax problems. he is saying it is a fair tax on upper-income people at the same rate that high pay, or a lot of people pay at less than 100,000 people -- $100,000. the other issue is when you have a guest on like stephen moore, could you put off the -- put up the charts that go back for 30 years and once see the tax break that we gave the job creators, and let's see what it shows us what has happened in the economy. that way, all of our rhetoric is

evaluated or substantiated on the facts of what happened. that would help us a lot. thank you. guest: thank you. it is a great couple points that you make. on the last point about jobs, i think that would be instructive. i have a book called "the end of prosperity," which has a lot of these charts. in 1982 under president reagan we saw the biggest boom in jobs in the history of this country, creating something like 35 million to 40 million jobs. it was incredible. we cut tax rates, more investment capital came to the united states. we created a whole new industries in technology, pharmaceuticals, and financial services. let's get back on that

prosperity path that we had in the 1980's, the 1990's, which was incredible. i think we could do it. it requires getting the deficit under control, by cutting spending, it means having a world class, first-rate tax system that is oriented towards growing the economy, creating jobs for every american. the greatest tragedy is there are 16 million americans that can not find jobs. host: this tweet -- guest: i am not so sure i agree with that. i believe the president is right that this is a stark contrast in divisions. we are looking at one president who wants to raise taxes, ron trillion dollar deficits, has a

jobs plan that has not worked, and mitt romney has a different game plan. he basically says we will cut tax rates by 20%, not raise them. he says we will reform through the ryan budget. i think it is a courageous document. he says we will get rid of energy programs the president has put in place. we will drill for oil and natural gas. how much energy we have in this country -- i just got back from north dakota. it is like the wild west. if we were to drill for our oil and natural gas, we have some much coal in this country, we could create literally millions of jobs. we could be energy independent in the next 10 years if we were to go after all of the oil, gas,

and coal in this country. he is not allowing drilling because he thinks fossil fuels are evil. host: texas, republican line. caller: stephen moore, this guy here is such a phony. he says we need to do something about the budget. last year, when we, the tea party, put the republicans in the house to stop this, who was it that attack us and called us too stupid to govern? in guest: we wrote a controversial editorial. host: did you write it? guest: we did it as a team.

i admire the tea party. people like you changed the country. i admire people that took to the streets and said what is going on is not sustainable. i salute you and the millions of others who joined the tea party movement. we need you out there on the street this year as well. i do not always agree with the tactics. i think some of them strategically did not work. when we had the debt ceiling, everyone said close the government down. the american people do not want the government shut down, but we need more citizen involvement. we are destroying a country that is so great. if you caught me, i am bleeding red, white, and blow. i want every american to be rich. host: did you hear from a lot

of tea party members after that? guest: we did. host: texas. independent line. caller: yes, mr. stephen moore, i am calling because i just heard him say that the rise in budget plan was courageous and gutsy -- arion budget plan -- the paul ryan budget plan was courageous and gutsy. it does not contemplate balancing the budget until the year 2014. that will not obviously -- 2040. between now and 2040 we will run deficits every year. my congressman voted for the paul ryan budget plan. he has almost guaranteed that

every year or so he will have to raise the national debt ceiling. now, how can you call that betsy and courageous when it will do nothing to get power over spending under control for the next 30 years? guest: it is a fair point. on the one hand, president obama has put us in such an incredible fiscal hole. it is incredible how far our country has stumbled because of these backward policies with stimulus plans that could not create jobs and cost the unemployment rate to rise, not fall. it will take a lot of time to get out of this. if you look at dynamic scoring. paul ryan fixes the tax code as well. if in the to the growth aspects, it will not take 40

years -- if you look at the growth aspects, it will not take 40 years. i remember when speaker newt gingrich said we will balance the budget in seven years, and people said that will never happen. we did have spending under control. i give newt gingrich a lot of credit because we did not balance the budget in seven years. we did it in less than four years. once you get the economy growing and trajectory spending down, it is amazing how fast you get back to fiscal stability. the problem is we -- commerce is growing too much, and the economy is growing too little. host: republicans and congress -- republicans control the

house. did not have to vote on the budget? guest: the first two years, obama had a democratic congress, so he was able to do what he wanted, but now you have republicans controlling the house. they have to share some of the blame. there has been some reduction in spending over the last year. it is not as much as i would like to see, and not as much as most americans and the tea party would like to see. there has to be more focused on how we bring spending down, and the chest and sit -- and not just programs like planned parenthood, which i am in favor of defunding, but what we do about massive programs like medicare, medicaid, and social security? if we allow those programs to stay on their course, if you have 80 million baby boomers retire in, what will that mean

for the next generation? people who are retired now will not be effected by this. people like myself, i am 52 years old, it basically says i will probably not be able to retire at 64. i might have to retire one year later. that is more fair to the future generations. host: betty in albuquerque. democrat. caller: good morning. i always get a big kick out of stephen moore. i always enjoy him regardless of the venue. i have a hard time understanding how you say a lot of the things you say with a straight face. you're anti-tax philosophy does nothing more than shore up the obscene situation we have with ceo's walking away with 500

times as much as the lowest paid workers. average wages have been in decline for ages. the fact that you use ronald reagan as an icon, and not mention ever that ronald reagan raised taxes 11 times during his tenure, so yes, there was success during a number of his years. you never mentioned the wars, and the obscene money that has gone out of the door for these illegal occupations that started under george bush. you do not mention taking care of the doughnut hole, the legal occupations. host: let's get some response. a lot on the table there. guest: thank you for calling. i am glad you get a kick out of me. let me take on one issue about ronald reagan raising taxes.

there were 11 attacks raises, but which tax raises, -- tax raises, but when he took office, the economy was in a freefall. what i find annoying is obama and his advisers say he took over during the greatest recession since the great depression, but reagan took over during an even greater economic crisis. i graduated from college and could not get a job as a burger flipper. that was a brutal decade. reagan brought inflation down. we stabilize the currency under paul volcker and ronald reagan. by the way, most liberal economists thought i could never happen.

reagan cut tax rates down to 28%. that is significant. 72 cents out keep of the dollar. it caused a boom in the stock market and jobs. incomes rose. it was an american renaissance. that is why when ronald reagan ran for reelection, you remember, his theme was morning in america. you'll never hear barack obama run on 18 of morning in america. it's called a -- run on morning in america. host: this tweet -- we have a spending problem with the military. guest: the defense secretary has said some of these cuts could be

catastrophic. that is barack obama's defense secretary. we have to cut everything, every agency by 10%, 15%, just as a start. we spend too much money. hopefully as we withdraw from iraq and afghanistan we will be able to save a lot of money. george bush, i saw him this week, and i have to give him a lot up credit. there were a lot of policies he put into effect that i cannot agree with, but one of the reasons we were able to get bin laden is because president bush fought a successful war on terrorism. i would say barack obama has. on those policies successfully. -- has continued on those

policies successfully. we cannot have a functioning economy is terrorists are blowing up schools. that is part of the picture. making sure that we kill terrorists anywhere we can find them, and i think bullish and obama deserve credit for that. host: stephen moore of the "wall street journal" editorial page has been our guest. coming up next, a discussion of online politics and social media after this update. >> ahead of today's court appearance, and george zimmerman's attorney says his client has a lot of hatred focused on him and he is concerned about a fair trial. george zimmerman is set to appear on a second-degree murder charge in the shooting death of trayvon martin. prosecutors will have to prove he intel the intentionally went

after the teenager. -- intentionally went after the teenager. trayvon martin's mother says she believes the fatal shooting was an accident, adding that she believes it got out of control. she also suggests that george zimmerman, who claims he killed martin, 17, in self-defense, should apologize. dow jones futures are up this hour following commentary from federal reserve vice chairman janet yellen yesterday. ahead of the bell, the dow is up 62 points. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span or radio. >> our specific mission is to work to see to it that human rights remain a central component of american foreign policy, and when we are evaluating foreign policy moves

globally, human rights can never be the only consideration, but it has to be part of the dialogue. when we abandon our deepest values, and as we are talking about torture as relates to the war on terror, or the policy with russia and the upcoming issue of whether the accountability act should be passed, whether we will stay on record saying human-rights matter in russia, china. >> more with katrina lantos swett sunday night at 8:00 on c- span's "q&a." "washington journal" continues. host: we want to introduce you to lauren ashburn, editor in

chief of the daily download. what is the daily download? guest: the daily download, daily-download.com, is a website that curates the smartest content on the web, the smartest videos, things that time- strapped person needs. host: who defines smartest? guest: i do, of course. host: how would that be different from a "drug to udge report?" guest: these are things people would not see. we are assuming a level of understanding and education, and this is something you might not

see from a site called mindfloss, or something like that. these are unique stories. plus, original post from howard kurtz, other contributors, myself. host: we want to introduce howard kurtz, who hosts cnn pulled all "reliable sources." what is your role? guest: i am a contributor and an adviser. it has been fun to watch this built up. there are the smartest post, and there are the dumbest post. my favorite feature is the guilty pleasure. the other thing about the daily download, when you ask about " the huffington post," or some of

these other sites, it does not try to do everything. we do a lot of original video. sometimes we have skype conversations. we interview people. we think video is moving of mine. i love television. i love being on cnn, but this is a new frontier. host: how has your life changed since you left writing for "the washington post." guest: it has changed tremendously. i have the metabolism for an online guide. the great thing about writing for "newsweek" or "daily beast" is you can get something ought

quickly, but the downside is you're always on deadline. host: lauren ashburn, are there different points of view? guest: one of the things we agree on is that the increasing polarization of media is not good for america. you have one station where al sharpton is basically covering himself and then you have fox, which is admittedly conservative. we have an independent look at the news. host: we want to ask you about something in the news. hillary talks the ann romani

tweet. this is in response to it being said that she never worked a day in her life. now, david axelrod tweets, supporting ann romney. how will this play out? guest: on the policy side it will raise sympathy. raising five boys can not be easy. she has played an interesting role in trying to play oddball the family -- in trying to play up the family side of mitt romney.

what is interesting as a lot of warfare is conducted on twitter. it really has an impact. it has a ripple effect. most journalists are on twitter. they will pick up on it. it will be talked about on c- span or cable television. guest: about one year ago i wrote an article when we were considering two females for the supreme court justice, elena kagan and sonia sotomayor. host: you wrote it for? guest: "the huffington post," candid talk about how -- and it talked about childless women have it easier than those that do not have children. i was saying you women without

children, it is easier to be successful. i have three children. i do believe it is easier. you take one piece out of your life. you can then focus clearly on your career, but i agree with a lot of people are saying in that it does not mean that just because she decided to focus on her family that is not a career. even in this age right now, that is a hot-button issue, and it is exploding and twitter. it is exploding on facebook. people are taking sides. host: we want to show you hilary rosen's most recent tweet in response.

here: what is going i'm is hilary rosen is a democratic operative, and i'm not saying she is trying to do this on behalf of anyone, but is trying to paint the picture that mitt romney and his wife are all the touched. that is the subtext. guest: what drives me crazy is i respect them for their views, but what drives me crazy is this is women against women. this is female against female combat when we have such a hard time with women in politics anyway. we could not elect a female president. we had a difficult time even with a vice-presidential candidate. guest: was there not a lot of women that it's at sarah palin. -- that attacked sarah palin.

guest: right. let's bring it together, girls. host: when you decide to take part in this conversation, how will you do it? how will it be different? guest: we are analysts, essentially. on something like this, we will carry the video. we will put it right there, analyze it together, and ask for participation. host: from anybody? guest: absolutely anyone. guest: we like to engage everyone. we have done this story about pintrest, an interesting story. 90% of the users are women. it is a follow-sharing site. guest: you do not know anything

about the site. guest: ann romney is very active on it. it is a way of going around the mainstream media, interacting directly with women voters, which is what mitt romney needs. host: who founded pintrest. -- pintrest? guest: three guys. it is a photo service where you can create your own virtual board, and then pin things you like. one of the things she created was her mitt-loaf, where you

could put up videos. she did this love letter, essentially. was a happy anniversary video. no one would run that. host: how is it different than facebook? why not just put it on your facebook page? guest: first of all, it is hot, new, and shiny. traffic went up 52% in february. guest: it is more visual. it is not about having an exclusive set of friends. guest: anyone can look. the idea for the campaign is to have somebody say that is really cool. it is not so much words. it is just pictures, video. guest: the obama campaign is also on pintrest, but it seems

to be in a more official way. guest: it looks like a team of kids is running the obama site. it is not very personal. host: will you be editorialize index guest: we analyze. guest: the site ranges widely. it is not like a newspaper that has an editorial page with a position. it is a collection of voices, hours, and the voices of our editors find. host: howard kurtz is a familiar face to cable news watchers, now is washington bureau chief with "daily beast" and "newsweek, but

a little bit about lauren ashburn, she went to albright college, has a master's from columbia. i apologize for taking so long talking to our guest. pennsylvania. firing. democrat. go ahead. -- irene. democrat. go ahead. caller: i wanted to mention romney withr annn the five children. i will be 65. i had seven children. five living. you know what, i'm still raising children.

i'm still washing my grandchildren's close this is my responsibility maybe my -- responsibility because many my daughter-in-law is too busy. one of my sons is working all the time. i am doing all the things that a mother would do. and, the great grandparent. financially, these things need to be done. host:, quickly, your point? caller: my point is i want the truth to be put out for middle- class people. you cannot put her with the average woman whose husband is a billionaire. host: lauren ashburn? guest: that is an interesting point. it is true for working women, they have to work. that is the point that hilary rosen is making. but also, ann romney could

choose to work if she wanted to come and she made a decision not to do that. was it out of choice, yes. does it make it less valuable? now. -- no. guest: she did serve as first lady of massachusetts, and she is effected with multiple sclerosis, and does volunteer work. they are a wealthy family. there is no way around that. in a campaign year, that will become fodder. host: we want to show you hilary rosen's most recent tweet . it is not up there right now. we will show it to you in just two seconds and we will take this call from indiana. bob, republican line. caller: good morning, c-span. i am 70 years old, and it

saddens me about the envy this president has created. he is a community educator. -- educator. howard kurtz made the statement that "morning show" was right- leaning. joe is a phony. host: a response for that caller? guest: i am not the one who made that saying, a guest of mine said "morning joe" was a right- leaning show. i guess joe would agree that more of the guests lean left,

and he is the only right-leaning house that i could see. host: i wanted to get your analysis of hillary rosen's mos. guest: i would analyze that as a slight walked back. hilary rosen says this might be getting personal, and i just want to make a point about your very wealthy husband. mitt romney is fair game, and his wife is fair game, but to start picking on her because she chose to raise five sons, i think that is a losing argument. host: lauren ashburn? guest: i agree. the best thing the democratic side could do right now is keep quiet. the right is doing what it is doing to attract women or not

attract women. guest: you do not think the obama campaign should talk about women's issues in general? i'm just -- guest: i'm just saying do not make it personal. the obama campaign has women on their side. it is theirs to lose at this point. i think that attacking ann romney at this moment, when the polls show that when in favor president obama and his policies is a mistake. host: is, will -- is tumbler an active site you follow? guest: it is. have you read the most recent hillary posts? if you go on tumbler, there is a

group of pictures that two young kids put together. hillary clinton is wearing these black sunglasses and she is texting and the kids have decided to put a picture of ryan guy swing above its -- gosling about it. they do a parody. guest: it is kind of a mashup site, where people are getting news, information, and laughter, sometimes. guest: even though it is not as prevalent as twitter and facebook and lease in the campaign world, but this most recent use is elevating its status in the political realm.

host: is tumbler ispintrest making money? guest: facebook bought instagram. guest: that was a lot of money for a site that has not made a dime. guest: it is. as far as buying other sites, we just saw aol and the sale of all of its patents. i think there is right now -- maybe it is a bubble, but i think a lot of people are trying to find the next big platform, and if you have the platform where you are getting information from people that could be sold, and you have a different way to communicate with people, then, you know, you have a good chance of being bought. host: california, david.

thank you for holding. you are on with howard kurtz and lauren ashburn. caller: great to see that there are some alternatives to the right and left. i would like you guys to check out some different videos at theirisamagicbullet.com. host: emanuel. you are on. caller: when it comes to the news, when will we get back to interpreting the news -- to reporting the news instead of just interpreting the news. second, when people can go out on blogs on false names, make disparaging remarks, and then

list information as facts that have no basis in fact. guest: there are people that will stir things up. pretty quickly, you are found out. guest: this is a minority view, but i do not understand why they allow people to post not using their own names. i think it would elevate the tone of the discourse. because it is an exploding world, one thing we are doing at daily download is looking at new forms of journalism and digital tools that people can use at home. this is one of our specialties. we talk about a site called raw porter, where people can send information that might be used.

it also shows that people can be their own journalist. they can use these digital tools to gather information about their community, political contributions, their schools. i think that is a good thing. i would not want to go back to just three networks, a couple of national magazines. host: howard kurtz, do have a problem with people posting comments? guest: i love comments. i think they are great, but a lot of times they get out of hand with personal attacks, libel assertions, and so forth. how do you invite all of these people in without letting them hijacked the process? my own feeling, and some sites have move to this, but is if people had to use their real man, it would add accountability. -- real name, it would add

accountability. host: is daily download doing that? guest: we are not, but maybe we need to have a meeting. we are inviting people to comment via facebook. it is better than just creating a name. our comments link back to a facebook profile. guest: there is some element of accountability. guest: right, you can[applause] -- [laughter] host: what is the lead story right now on a daily downloads? guest: trayvon martin. i put together a peace after looking at twitter and facebook and the things that were said zimmerman was

facing second-degree murder charges. on twitter, it exploded with support of trayvon martin and really negative comments about george zimmerman. it was very one-sided. i think people who had the most emotion about the case came down to, but they also started attacking the media. i wrote a piece about how a 140 foracter ran t need to wait the reels of justice to grind slowly. guest: the headline on these pieces are presumed guilty. i am not taking issue with the special prosecutor's decision after weighing the evidence. it did seem weird than an armed kid got shot. but, he is entitled to our

system. host: next call from arizona. jan of our republican line. caller: i am really excited to see mr. kurt. he is one of the best sunday morning shows he has. i am not a relative. [laughter] guest: i told him not to call now. caller: you are a true journalist. i do not know if you are republican or democrat, but you never take sides on one or the other. you are amazing. i do not know why your show is that at the top of the heap on sunday. host: you ever read his daily beat? caller: i do not do social media. i was watching you talk about the president's war on women.

unlike mitt romney's wife, i chose to stay at home. i am an interior decorator. it is hard to be a mother. you are in so many social things. there is one thing i want to say. you were great. nobody talks about the president paying his women 18% less than men make. i do not know who did the book that came in and they let him do the article. they call it the man's club. the president has the boys' club. there are different things. the president is not this special on women. we do not need to bring of working women against stay at home women. this was back in the 1960's. host: we got the point. thank you. guest: i am an independent but i appreciate the fact that she watches my program.

obviously, the democrats have tried to stamp republican policies as being a war on women. that is a nice campaign slogan the republican -- the republican primary process focused on contraception. rick santorum just dropped out of the week. he talked about -- romney says there should be no federal funding of planned parenthood. in order to compete for the conservative base, republicans are focusing on issues like that and that has given political fire to the democratic party. just yesterday, romney tried to fight back by talking about how the president's economic policy is hurting women and female business women in entrepreneurs. host: lauren ashburn, anything

to add? guest: agree with you when it comes to talking about putting women against women. pitting working women is women who are working at home is a big mistake. it is not fair. because, everybody in their own family has their own way of making things work. maybe for a while the wife stays home and maybe the husband stays home. you know, it is all about personal choice as it comes to whether or not to stay home or not. i guess it comes to personal choice on a lot of women's issues. i commend you for making that decision to stay home. every woman has a story. i made a decision to leave a big corporate job to work out of my home office and start my own company so i could be there when my kids came home from school. and i could pick up my kids when i needed to and take them to the doctor. everyone makes a different

choice for different reasons. are you offended by either side? the and romney or the comments? guest: i am not a finighan here is why -- is a very personal and difficult issue -- i am not offended and here is why. it is a very personal and difficult issue for women. you could write a book today about the guilt that women feel and the anst that women feel -- angst that women feel. we are not a point where we can feel like this is the right answer. there are some articles written about how to have a balanced life. well, there is no balance. the only balance is that there will never be balanced. host: to you agree with this tweet? -- do you agree with this tweet? guest: i think that rosen took

this in a personal direction. her saying it was not about policy -- we are following have a lot of tweets. it is an issue because of the battle latino voters. that is crucial in this fall election. the larger issue is going to consume enormous amount of our attention. guest: i want to say that we all do television late at night. we all know that sometimes, you say something that might not be exactly what you want to say. guest: you hit the send button and you can only get so many words until those tweets. guest: if you want to take it back, it is hard because the fire storm has already blown up the building. host: david axelrod of the obama campaign tweeted last night --

guest: that is a technical term. [laughter] he is not wanting to be saddled with beating up on a ann romney. host: independent line. howard kurtz and lauren ashburn are our guests. online politics and social media is what we are talking about. caller: i would like to weigh in on what hillary rosen said. she did not say anything wrong. what she was trying to say was that mitt romney's wife was never in the work force. he can only talk about a woman that works. if the wife was talking about her kids at home, that is different. i do not think there is need for apology. that is my opinion.

i would like a lady to weigh in on it because i think she is saying something -- saying -- guest: i am not quite sure you are saying that i am saying. i will tell you what i mean by all of this. i think hillary rosen made a value judgment. that is the problem here. she made a value judgment that stayed home is not as good as going to work. and therefore, a, you can say that you are not as smart and b, they like to take it easy because having kids is an easy job. you know, they're all of these kinds of things. these things can be placed on those few words. guest: this is not really about ann romney. it is a way to get at mitt romney.

he is dragging ann romney into it and it is personal. host: howard kurtz, dan quayle, murphy brown, any relationship? everybody knows what we are talking about. will we know in five years what we are talking about when we say hillary rosen and ann romney? guest: it does not involve a famous fictional newscaster but it does remind me that the culture wars that are going on for a long time -- here we are in 2012 and we are having this discussion. guest: because corporations in america have not yet caught up to having female workers and female employees who can integrate their home life in their work life. i think you would feel -- guest: do all of them understand

this? maybe they did not have patience for female employees left to leave early? guest: someone who is at the very top of a corporation just to have kids and was never home. therefore, ok, you just have kids, you are not going to be home. i did not get a chance to be home. there are some like that. there are some who say, i want you to have that choice but in the backs of their mind, they are thinking, i did not have a chance to do that with my kids. employees, i think, need to rise up and say look, as women, we can be equally as effective working at home part-time, full- time, have time as we can sitting in an office from 9 to 5 in the afternoon. host: lauren ashburn at dailydashdownload.com. how will this hillary rosen/ann romney play out? guest: we will debate this

issue. we will analyze this. just as we are doing here. i think that gives a real value add to the internet world because we are able to react in real time to an issue that is exploding on the net and add voices of reason. we hope. better not inflammatory. we will get a chance to look at it in a different way. guest: and encourage people to comment. host: this week has come in. -- tweet has come in. guest: that debate has gone on for some time. the definition of -- we in the news business, those of us to work for organizations, no longer have a monopoly on the term journalist.

there are very good loggers out there who report and worry about getting their facts straight. or are very opinionated and to edit lot of value. i read a lot of blotters every day. -- bloggers every day. i tweet and facebook./ 5 ellicott at -- guest: 5:00 and you can go home. guest: smart consumers out there have to make their own judgment about who is credible and who is worth following and who is worse their time. host: a tweet -- guest: true. i think she is right. there were a lot of tweets last night on twitter that said, the big lesson from all of this is open your mouth. do not keep quiet if you are

upset about the way something is being handled. guest: the trayvon martin case was a tremendous failure on the mainstream media. it did not become a national story for two weeks. guest: one of the reasons is that there was not a lot of money in journalism anymore. they close the bureau in sanford, florida. guest: it goes beyond economics. it was a systems failure on the part of national zoo's -- on the part of a national news organization who finally thought this was an important story. host: kentucky. a democrat. you have been on hold. thank you. go ahead. caller: yes, i was back in the early 1970's and i always remember one of my professors at western, a copyrighter, who

taught ethics. he said the day that the journalist start doing commercials for their own stuff, turn the tv off. and, i kind of got passed by but journalism, to me, -- i am a retired social worker working for the homeless. it is a cycle of trust. ally know what to say except this is towards my roots. i know things are different. how do you integrate the ethics that the older guys like us were taught? host: we got the point. let us get an answer. howard kurtz? guest: mike wallace passed away

few days ago. did cigarette commercials. that something we would not do today. i do not believe that journalism is a less ethical thing than it was now in the era that -- then it was in the era of caught walter cronkite. it might come out more now because all of these bloggers and folks are to -- are blowing the whistle on things. by definition, we have become more transparent. this was -- host: we of time from one more call. republican. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i wanted to ask mr. kurtz and miss ashburn if they could talk about miss rosen's recording

stance over eminem. she works for the recording industry and now she is the alta meant self-promoter, doing what she is doing to create another controversy. host: any comments? guest: i do not remember much about that. i do not think she is not entitled to have her opinions and tweet. guest: she is a contributor now to cnn's she is paid to give revise. i cannot remember about eminem. did she want to allow him to support? i am not clear. host: lauren ashburn, do think that hillary rosen knew what impact for tweeted wout would h? host: gguest: i know her and i o

not think of her as someone who wants to stir things up. she is very opinionated and has very thoughtful things to say. guest: you are saying she miscalculated. guest: i am saying maybe she underestimated. she spends a lot of time on tv saying a lot of things. guest: if you spend enough time on tv -- guest: sometimes it will come out a little bit differently than you anticipated. host: you can hear an example of how a topic can hijack the show, as we spend a lot of time talking about this issue. very quickly, when it comes to politics and online media, are we going to be seeing more and more press releases done by twitter, facebook and less use of the editorial pages or the front pages of newspapers. guest: yes, and it is a good

thing because it opens up the debates to more voices. ordinary people have something to say or they are with you or something like that. i like newspapers and i have worked for one for 30 years, but they should not have a monopoly on the public. guest: there so last century. there were the days of the fax machine and the papers would be falling on the floor and it was a miss. [laughter] host: dailydashdownlaod.coad.co. why did you pick that design? guest: we wanted to be clear. we are very video heavy. a lot of original video. guest: -- guest: you can learn about media, politics, health,

education, and consumer tax. ashburn and howard kurtz, thank you. we will look at a personal story up next on a family bereavement and how that turned into a policy advocation. we will be right back. studentcam as students to create a video asking what part of the constitution is most important. today, we go to connecticut to talk to the third prize winner. he is a junior at the high school. hello. >> hello. >> why did you choose the first amendment? >> because it basically outlines what america is and it has all of our basic freedoms in it . >> what are those five rights associated with the first amendment? >> freedom to petition, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, freedom of the press,

and the freedom of speech. >> you interviewed a group of protesters for your documentary. how was the first amendment applied to their movement? >> the group of occupy wall street, would not be around if it was not for the first amended because they are using public property and they would not be allowed to be there if it was not for that and there would not be people speaking out and saying what they were saying if it was not for freedom of speech. >> you interviewed a state senator who compared the tea party movement and the occupy wall street movement. what similarities did you find between both groups? >> i do not think it is so much the similarities between their views but the way they express them. and they both expressed their views through the freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. >> why do you think the founding fathers included freedom of religion in the first amendment? >> i think that the included the freedom of religion because when the pilgrims came to america, they were being oppressed religiously and that they were hoping that america would one

day be the free and everybody would be allowed to practice with their religion they wanted without pressures from the government or other religions. >> you talked about the freedom of the press, what does that mean to you? i see the freedom of the press is the right to -- >> the freedom of the press is to print what ever you want, whether it is newspapers or magazines. that can be against the government. that is great because here in america, we can do that and it is 100 percent legal, which is different from other countries which may be would be wrong. >> as part of the portion about freedom of the press, you mentioned the internet's role. how has that changed people's access to information? >> you can go on google, facebook, twitter, and find anything about anybody. so, i think what it does is it keeps the government officials more reliable because today, we

can find anything about them. so, you know, they would not want to do something that was putting their careers at risk. it keeps a more honest. we can find anything about them. >> which of those five rights associated with the first amendment do you think is most important? >> the freedom of speech is most important because in that everybody has a certain religion they want to follow or is interested in assembling peacefully. with the freedom of speech, i think every american really wants that freedom because they can speak a word and say whatever they are thinking without fear of government interference or without fear of anybody saying anything. >> thank you for joining us today. congratulations on your wind. >> thank you. >> here is a brief portion from his documentary titled "first amendment beca."

[inaudible] >> freedom of the press is a danger. >> to always know, information is power. it is a powerful weapon in the hands of the free people. it masks the allies -- lies, rips off the bandage of deceit for all to see. twitter, facebook, a text messages, cell phone videos. how rapidly they are unmasking the lives. >> the freedom of information act is available not just to the person who made the request, but for the whole world to see. guest: you can watch the entire

documentary as well as all of the winning documentary set studencam.org and check us out on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" continues. joining host: us this barry kluger. -- host: joining us this barry kluger. he is an author. who is jericka? -- erica? guest: erica is my 18-year-old daughter who was killed in a car accident in arizona in 2001. actually last friday was the 11th anniversary. she had come out here to live with my wife and i to go to college and it was just one of

these freak things. i had been golfing that morning and i called home to see if there were any messages and there was a call from scott still hospital saying your daughter has been in a car accident, please call. i called back and i said, how bad is it? they said, it is bad. they did not tell me that she had been dead for an hour. they are not about to tell a father that before he is about to get into a car and drive 25 minutes to a hospital. perhaps even a radically. so, a did not tell me when i had called them. when i showed up at a hospital, they asked me to sit in a room, which is another one of those the summer moments of silence, something that is going on. and then increase came in. being jewish, i realized that he had something quite serious to tell me. that is when he told me that erica died. host: where did that lead you to

today? guest: it is interesting. as i said in a book, it is really is the journey. it is different for everybody. on one hand, i see myself as being a very up person and very gregarious, going out and talking to anyone. that is just me. people read and very different ways. so, over the years, and this is interesting, since i was young, growing up new york and my college days in washington, i always kept a journal. i always kept things that were going on in my life. my divorce from erica's mother then my marriage. i just put everything in there and i kept zealots -- notes when erica was living with us and the day she died, the days leading

up to the funeral, and then the years pass. i would write a number of erica.s about jerick i was also a guest columnist here. i used that opportunity to talk about erica. finally, i decided to write the book in 2010 and what is interesting -- i just want to know how death impacts all of us. the cover notes for the book were written by jefferies as low -- jeffery zazlow. he and i had spoken. he was killed about six weeks ago on his way to a book signing. it i became the go to guy for parents on the internet who would cougar deft -- google

death, loss, car accidents. my name which show up and fathers would reach out to me. father's day is very interesting because there is a group of maybe 12 of us to keep in touch around the country. host: first of all, your background, if he would give us your professional background and then, what is the policy initiative that has resulted from erica's death? guest: ok. i am a recovering comport -- corporate communications executive. i have been in the public relations field for 37 years. having been fortunate to work in such places as mtv networks and prodigy and having my own pr firm. that gave me a license to come if you look, be aggressive and understand -- 2, if you will, the aggressive and understand and talk to the media and get

publicity for campaign such as this. i think it served me well. the grieving father from illinois and lost two children. we met on the internet and we discover that there were people who were being fired from jobs for taking too much time off. after they have lost a child. many companies grant two or three days. some companies do not have policies. let me add that i think many companies in america have compassion and -- have to be compassionate. as we started to reach out and found these people, we said, we should start a petition. we called it the farley-kluger initiative. we are over 35,000 signatures. we are supported by goldstar, boost our family is, the

american institute of health professionals, a student organization for college-age suicides, the american academy of grieving counselors, etc. the family medical leave act grants 12 weeks if you have a child, adopted child, or 46 family member, , you,, or you care -- you are sick, are you care for an injured service member. there is nothing dealing with bereavement. one of the problems of the existing fmla, which was signed in 1993 by president clinton, is, if you lose a child, you can use mental illness or depression as medical leave. many parents are reluctant to do so because it shows up on their record and could affect future insurance rates. it could cause some bias in the workplace in the future job. an employer was a, you took out

six weeks for depression? bereavement is a natural life cycle. a natural death happens far too often. if you will, it is a part of life. there is no half-life. to put the going phone numbers on the screen and his people want to talk to you about the issue of family medical leave act and bereavement leave. you would like to take the existing family and medical leave act, which was enacted in 1993, and amend it. correct? guest: yes. we would like to amend it. currently, the senator john tester of the montana was courageous enough to respond to petitioners who signed the of initiative. he introduced the parental bereavement act of 2011.

it sits in committee in the senate. it has five co-sponsors including center dick durbin who has lost a child. -- center dick durbin, who has lost a child. we visited the hill and mecca over 55 congressional people and staff -- met over 55 congressional people and staff. host: 202 is the area code. the numbers are on the screen. we are talking with barry kluger, who has not told us of his personal story, talking about his book "a life undone: if father's journey through loss." and how his daughter's untimely death has affected him.

the family medical leave act and paid foreeks for unpai the birth of a child, urgent need and demand related to family members on active duty, and 26 work weeks unpaid for a service member with a serious injury or illness. i just want to put that out there. he is looking to modify the family medical leave act to include bereavement leave. mr. luger, how long were you off work? >> i was fortunate enough to have my own business. my own public relations firm. kelly had worked for a company that had given him the time.

that is one of the compassionate companies that i speak about. but, he has a grieving dad's blog and we got comments from people and we said things need to be done. we are fortunate that there are compassionate businesses and i had my own business and i was able to take the time. but, i was looking at the posts before we decided to sit down and, if i may, there was a note someone had posted saying i needed three months after my daughter's debt by homicide to be able to return to work. i used medical leave, fmla did not cover it, and when i returned, my position had been eliminated. that seems to be the case we are finding in many areas. especially people who are working as civilians and military bases. the interesting thing is that

this is revenge, she left the field after she had been fired. she went back to school and study to be bereavement counselor. today, she is doing. counseling in their hometown. -- she is doing bereavement counseling in her hometown. host: but state some calls. at mountain view, california. go ahead. caller: i appreciate what you are doing. 20 years ago, my mother was killed in a car accident. guest: i am sorry. host: i work for myself. i stayed with my father to get him on track. then i went home and it hit me and i took a couple -- a month or more. then, i saw counseling and found

other people that were going through it, as you are saying. it has helped the process. i really appreciate what you are doing out there. a lot of people have gone through it. if that happens, seek counseling right away. guest: i agree with you. it is interesting. people grievance so many different ways. when erica died, and it is interesting that your name is similar, maybe it is fate, she died on friday. a friend called and he said, here is a phone number for a grief counselor. see him tomorrow. less than 24 hours after erica died, i was sitting in the office of a grief counselor. people say, you have managed to come through to the other side from grief. as i said, everybody looks at it differently. for me, i had no handbook.

i had no idea what to do when a child dies or when a parent dies or is bows. i think getting counseling immediately is the lifeline. host: we have this week for you. -- this tweet for you. guest: carries expressing an opinion felt by many people. here is one of the things. the workplace -- if he fmla did not exist, that might be one thing. starting this from scratch. it does exist. not including parade meant was an oversight. simply an oversight. when we spoke to many republicans and democrats, they had said that this is not part of the fmla and we said no, and

they said it was on oversight. there are a couple of things. the business to -- the business community would be concerned about fraud. people using -- trying to get paid or unpaid sick leave or taking off time. the thing, when you lose a child, you have to issue a death certificate. there is no faking this. this is real. if you look at two people in a company who may be pregnant, ticking off a length of time, and if you look and say, how many people in a company are going to lose a child at the same time and be out? the numbers are very different. the impact is very small. it is something that i think will create good will. i think companies are compassionate. i understand gary's concern. the fmla affects companies of 50 or more. this needs to be done.

i understand his concerns. host: mary, please go ahead with your comment for barry kluger. caller: i would also like to commend you on what you are accomplishing. i volunteered at hospice. i see so many family members struggling with this very issue. they want to be with their loved one at this time but they are so afraid they will lose their job. also, recently in my readings, i have come across some states that are trying to destroy this very act. they want to do away with the in fmla's. i wonder if you could comment on that. guest: it is interesting. i am not as familiar with the states. i probably should be a lot more up to date on it. here in arizona.

i have spoken to representatives at the u.s. chamber of commerce and the federation of independent small businesses and they are concerned that there is more government intervention along the way. i will tell you, both of these organizations listen to -- their parents. they are people. they are compassionate with that. there are things in the marketplace that really limit companies' from doing their business. this is something -- if you believe that every day at 5:00, the best assets of the company get on the elevator, keeping a policy or creating a policy like that in your own company makes sense. every company wants to be on that list that comes out every year, the hundred best places to work in america.

i think companies need to take care of their employees. unfortunately, many cannot. no one wants to legislate morality. but, this is something, as i said, we think is an oversight. there is a movement out there. but we can do is continue to fight on the national level. i would love for you, if you go to our website, you can sign. let me know some of the things going on in your own state because i think after this, the next up will be to see what we can do on the state level. host: next call comes from tampa. rick, you run the air. -- you are on the air. caller: as someone who came back and was terminated because she was a way too long and then went back to college, but she did not become an engineer or a

doctor. she became a grief counselor. they do not get paid very much. that is a socialistic type job. these kinds of ideas force -- people need time to get off to recover. two men i know of lost their daughters have to come back to work after six weeks and they probably have not recovered. you never recover. there is always some kind of -- this is the kind of thing that oprah that well before. an example that somebody became a grief counselor. people should have time off, but this idea is a typical socialistic thing. guest: i have not yet been called a socialist. i have been called many things. i do thank you for calling. i use that as one example probably a as an afterthought as to what she did as a business.

there are examples of people who came back and were fired from their jobs. you mentioned two of your friends. yes, grief does not have a half life. what we are trying to do, and there are things out there that say 12 weeks unpaid, which is the fmal. if legislation said, let us make it four riggs, we would say great. we just want to begin the healing process. if your friends took off five weeks for the loss of their daughters, they would be able to come back. no one is looking for a free ride or to say, take off for weeks, 12 weeks, we continue to pay you. this is unpaged. people awknowledge there will be financial impacts if they take the time. it affects the bottom line because at the end of the day, they're going to come back more productive. they are going to be able to

focus more on the job and i hate to turn this into an economic issue, with the company is going to benefit because they will have a more focused employee. host: a couple of tweets for you. guest: the questions. -- good question. when you are visiting washington, you are talking to democrats and republicans. there are some words that resonate with some and not others. that is why i am proud of the death of the organizations from military groups -- depth of

the organization's military groups to child bereavement centers. greece knows no income, race, culture. -- grief knows no income, race, culture. the two the thing is something which is arbitrary. it is not set in stone. that is what companies will do. someone will say, take a few days off. they might say take a week off. that is companies -- those companies that they take as much time as you need. if the fmla was never poured into effect -- since it exists, you have to go down and say, is it fair? if you look and you get time off to adopt a child, but you'll get three days to. that child, that is where there is an inequity. -- you will get three days to buy that child, that is where there is an inequity. caller: thank you for doing this. i lost my son 15 years ago.

my company was so wonderful to me. they gave me six months. there was no way i could return to work before that. they kept my job open. they gave me an office. if i wanted to be alone or i wanted to cry. i am sorry, this is very emotional. guest: what is your son's name. caller: enter. he was 28. he worked at mtv. -- andrew. he was 28. he worked at mtv. i want to say how important it was to have this time off to be able to grieve, to be able to go back and have such support for my company. guest: i would love a world where you do not have to legislate the behavior. your company sounds wonderful. it would be great to all the companies were like that. we are just finding out that there are a lot of people who did not work for those

compassionate companies and i think you are very fortunate that you worked for a company like that. host: oklahoma. gary, please go ahead for barry kluger. caller: good morning, sir. i am sorry you have had the tears fell over a lost child. it is unbelievable. i spend my nights from -- my 19th birthday in vietnam. by the time i turn 21, i had my head used by communists. nothing prepared me to watch my child died of brain cancer. it was having to watch, after leaving vietnam, never having to think i would have to do with somebody losing a piece of their mind. watching my ex-, this woman,

when they took the child out of her hands for the last time, i literally watch a piece of her brain falloff. people do not understand the dramatic effect that takes place on an individual when you lose a child. i am here to say that as a libertarian who really does not believe in these types of federal mandates that have been forced upon us, but in this particular instance, i am totally behind you. the death of a child is unlike anything else known to mankind. it is really is. host: all right. we leave it there. thank you. guest: thank you for your service. host: if people want to purchase your book, where can they find it? guest: they can get it on kinde le, amazon. if they would like a hard copy, they can go to www

.alifeundone.com and i will inscribe the book. it will be on the web site. that is where they can get it. host: how much time do you spend working on the policy advocacy issue? the bereavement leave. guest: i went to washington for a week and i have been spending a lot of time. as i said, i have an understanding. over the years, i will say it has consumed me. it has given me sort of a mission and a motivation. my wife said to me, i have never seen you so motivated. i said, this is something where instead of just getting exposure for my clients, i am working on something that is going to change people's lives.

kelly has a good job and he does his work and he says, do you ever sleep? i do. i am a happy guy. this is something where not often do you get to affect change in government. we saw on the senate side with an act already introduced. i am not the right track. host: barry kluger has been our guest. we appreciate your time this morning. guest: thank you, peter. host: we have about 10 minutes left on "washington journal." we talked about george demint, axes, ann romney and

hillary rosen. we're going to do 10 minutes of open phones. in the issue you would like to talk about, go ahead and dial in. -- if there is an issue you would like to talk about, go ahead and dial in. the numbers are on the screen. this was the lead editorial this morning in "usa today."

host: the case must rest on the evidence and all law, not on public pressures or perceptions. host: "the new york times" -- here is the "new york post." in "the new york times," they took a different path. they talked about what second- degree murder charges meant. this is a side article to the lead story. by choosing to charge george zimmerman with second-degree murder --

host: open phones. rocco, maryland. you are on the line. go ahead. caller: i wanted to thank mr. kluger. one of the ways to support those who are bereaved can be made -- counseling or therapy.

think of it as coaching. the best performers have coaches. for dealing with important aspects of their circumstances. let coaches or bereavement coaching is a more acceptable term for people who are struggling with excepting the laws that they have no choice about. host: for lauderdale. good morning. caller: good morning. it has been an interesting show. just a couple of things i would like to say. as far as the horrible situation that occurred with zimmerman and trayvon, it is a matter of justice. justice boils down to the truth. all right. everyone should be as open- minded as possible because the country is in turmoil over this.

please, my fellow citizens of the bereavement issue was really interesting. i worked at a medical center. we had an interesting way of handling it. the milk of human -- understanding kindness. that is applicable to the zimmerman case. thank you. host: unemployment benefits u.s. applications for unemployment -- more people saw benefits last week, suggesting the job market's recovery remains slow. the increase likely reflects the seasonal volatility because applications for unemployment frequently rise around the easter holiday. many school employees are temporarily laid off during spring break and can file for

benefits. weekly unemployment benefit up a case in shot 13,000 to a seasonally adjusted 380,000, the labor department said thursday. jacksonville, florida. charles on the republican line. you are on the air. caller: i just wanted to talk about the logic of everything. the trayvon case, everything. if you take into consideration -- i get some shrimp from the dock. someone says, i would love to get some of your schramm. he says, i will let you catch your own. he says, i did not want to do that. people should just give me what i want. i am just asking for some shrimp. there millionaires, they should

give us money. that is the difference between being an american and a democrat. democrats say that the government owes them something. republicans think you work for it. host: a tweet -- host: open phones. in delaware. hi. caller: aye. i am carling regarding hillary in rosen's -- calling regarding hillary rosen's comments. it was not about misses romney being a stay at home mom. billionaires' cannot know how regular stay at home moms or working mothers are affected by the current economy. that is the point. that is all i have to say. host: time for one more call from a republican in new

orleans. hello. caller: listen. misses romney had five kids and she brought trouble on herself. she should have an idea of the work that went on. the murder trial depends on what the judge charges the jury to do. i want to congratulate the media for bringing all of these social events. thank you. that ends our show. we will see you tomorrow at 7:00. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]