of backing up the chairman in this case. because we've had so many circumstances where oversight has been neglected. and perhaps we were in neglect for not doing more. wooem ki we'll kind of serve notices that there will be more oversight not just with gsa but other organizations within the jurisdiction of this huge committee. thank you, chairman. >> thank you very much. senator brasso? >> thank you, madame chairman. the issue continues to arise, should there be a termination, additional people suspended in response to the inspector general's report, the administrator has resigned. we talked about officials that have been fired. we get into senior executive service employees that can only be removed from civil service or suspended for more than 14 days, quote, only for misconduct, neglect of duty, malfeasance, failure, to accept a company

reassignment or transfer. as an administrator looking at this, you mentioned taking strong action. have these procedures to remove an employee been set in motion to terminate jeff neely? >> i think i want to try to avoid anything i would say that could impact the ability for us to see through the administrative actions against those accountable all the way to completion, because the personnel rules are rather strong, the privacy act also is implicated in discussing these items. i want you to know, though -- i would like the committee to know that we do have a team of folks from our human capital office, our deputy human capital person and from our legal office pursuing the full measure against all those responsible for planning this event and undertaking this event and leading this event. >> thank you. it's interesting. you look at some of the policies

we have with regard to credit card and contracting policies and learn a number of gsa employees had their credit card privileges temporarily terminated, related specifically to this conference back in 2009. and then just two weeks later, the privileges were reinstated. you scratch your head and say what exactly has happened here? and is that something you're going to look into as well? >> actually, i took action over this weekend to vest the authority in our senior procurement for removal and reinstatement. in the past, that was another delegated authority out to the regional areas where people could provide that warrant authority, remove the warrant authority. they could reprovide the warrant authority. all of that needs to go through our senior procurement office now and all of it needs to be justified. >> looking at this as a

prosecutor, as you said you do, are the things that we should expect in the next few weeks or months that we're going to learn more, additional things or is this pretty well complete? are you continuing an on dgoing investigation? >> senator, we are continuing ongoing investigations. and, you know, as i said in my opening statement, every time we turn over a proverbial stone, we find 50 more and we find things fr crawling out from under them. and, you know, i don't know what we're going to find. but it has not been pretty. >> just having gone through a number of -- the documents and the depositions, the invoices, looking through this. it does look like you question how certain vendors were chosen, when it would be a lot easier to choose others. p potential allegations of illegal relationships between vendors and those during the procuring. is that the sort of thing you're referring to? >> we're looking at all those things. yes, senator. >> there was a mention made of finding some individuals, making

them reimburse for money spent already. it's interesting how you look through some of these hotel bills and even though someone may have stayed a little longer and paid the $93 bills mr. neely did, the cost of the room that night -- kind of a high roller suite, would have been over $1,000. we'll just add that additional money to the overall invoice for the overall convention. that's come out in deposition. >> taxpayers paid for that. >> because that's an extra thousand $1,050 for additional time. >> yeah. >> you look at this and it makes you wonder, because chairman boxer mentioned both under republicans and democrats there has been abuse through the gsa over a number of decades. would it not be fair to ask has gsa outlived its usefulness? is this something that should be done in a private sector rather than a government sector since

there were so many challenges here for the gsa? >> if you want these activities to happen, if you want fleet management, building management -- in fact, most of the work we do is actually provided to the private sector. and what we simply do is act as an intermediary. the appropriate sets of checks and balances, appropriate sets of oversight systems, clear lines of accountability to make sure that this kind of thing can't happen again. that having been said, having a single accountable agency that can aggregate the expenses of the government and use the scale of the government to get the best possible price for the government, i think that has value today as much as it did back when the hoover administration first proposed it and president truman set up the gsa. >> the goal to provide superior value to the american taxpayer. we have fallen so far away from that that the taxpayers of this

country are just appalled. thank you. thank you, madame chairman. >> thank you, madame chair. mr. miller, the -- what were some of the red flags that were overlooked in regard to this? this stuff is pretty blatant. what was there that people didn't pick up that they should have picked up? >> almost everything, senator. when you have a select number of individuals invited to a party where food is paid for by the taxpayer, somebody somewhere should have -- some red flag should have popped up and said, oops. this isn't right. that didn't happen. and we have some of our highest ranking officials attend these networking parties. and private receptions in these rooms. >> and so was that -- i mean, was that budgeted? were there receipts? were they falsified or --

>> we went through all the receipts. it was billed to the federal government. it took a long time to find because some of the bills are on purchase cards, credit cards. some of the bills are in budget for the conference. some of the bills came out of the operating fund for the public buildings. they were all over the place. >> so who -- >> forensic agents and auditors for finding these. >> within the agency, who is responsible for saying, you know, there's something amiss here? >> dan, do you want to take that? >> i think, actually shall that's part of the problem. and that was part of our concern, was that we didn't have a strong centralized management organization that could see these things beginning to start coming through the system and start raising questions. it was all held within the region. and that region was being led by this individual, who is the main leader of this activity.

so, that we identify very quickly as an issue, coming out of the inspector general's report, taken immediate action to begin to change that structure. but we think that that's just the beginning and why we need to take a good look, top to bottom, the way we structure organize and operate this agency. >> somebody was approving the travel vouchers for those people traveling to this conference. so there's responsibility all throughout gsa. >> i guess -- i don't mean to interrupt, but as you've unturned these stones, are you find i finding is this more an individual thing or is this the culture of gsa? >> we're finding a lot of things. >> cultural thing or has this been going on so long that it's just business as usual or -- >> as an inspector general, i am reluctant to make generalizations without having facts to support them. i will say that when we uncover

things, we disclose them. i gave the administrator an interim report because we had investigations and it got so bad that we thought we have to tell the administrator so they can stop this abuse. normally we don't do that when we're investigating. we put together this interim report. i briefed the administrator in may of 2011 about the abuse. we had a problem with the emp y employee rewards store, we gave her a draft of that, too. we gave the managers information so that they could stop this. i don't know what actions were taken. i'll let the administrator talk about that. we were trying to get people to stop this. in august, there was a new regional administrator sworn in, in region nine. i personally met with her, went through the interim report with

her and asked her to get a handle on the regional commissioner's travel. i even suggested perhaps she could have her cfo take a look at past trips and then we're faced with a three-week trip of the regional commissioner to sa sa saipan. we were like, what's going on? do you know he's about to take another trip? she contacted the regional administrator and the result was he went on the trip. >> so, that is kind of cultural? >> i'll let you draw the generalization. >> exactly. the gsa, obviously, is a very troubled agency. >> can you -- are there -- what is the -- do you know perhaps what some of the better agencies, you know -- our leadership has been here a while, mentioned we have these

recur i recurring things going on at gsa. what are some of the agencies, what can we use as a model within government to try to model this after so that we don't have this in the future? some of the agencies seem to function without these problems. is there one that comes to your -- >> well, i would say i just want to -- if you don't mind -- add quickly to the ig's, mr. miller's comments about culture. at the same time i've received dozens and dozens of e-mails from gsa employees who are as outraged and horrified and disappointed and disgusted and, frankly, even somewhat more because they have associated their public service careers with this organization. and they're now embarrassed about being gsa employees. and they are committed. the e-mails i get from people, they are committed to redoubling their efforts to do what the gsa is set up to do, which is to save taxpayers money, which

makes these events even more unconci unconscionable. accountability systems, performance accountability systems that we really need to look at other agencies, how they set things up so that they have a continual quarterly accountability review of the actual performance and expenditures of their component parts. and i think there are a lot of lessons we can learn from them. >> thank you. thank you, madame chair. >> thank you. i want to thank all my colleagues. i think every one of these questions is important. so it's really good to see both of you working together. i mean, i can't tell you how much it means to us, because without that, we're not going to get anything done. and i think the last administrator should have listened to you a lot more when she saw the draft report.

>> thank you. >> and i think that was a huge mistake. and if it wasn't for miss britta, i don't know, we might not even be here. so i think what's really important is for the public to understand, as you said mr. miller in your opening, what went wrong and what went right. but now we have no excuses going forward not to fix this nightmare. and, you know, i have to say it starts with the two of you working together. it really does. that doesn't mean you're going to agree on every sing le thing. no two people agree on every single thing. but the motivation of cleaning house is key. and putting in those checks and balances so that, look, we can never stop every bad thing from happening, but we know we can stop most. and it starts with accountability for those who committed these, i would say, possible criminal acts. i believe it's very possible.

and i know that you're looking at more. and so i think this is so damaging that mr. tanger eventai want you to be more sweeping in your reforms, possibly, than people will be comfortable with. you have to. you have no other option. you can do something here that will last for generations if you do it right. i think senator boseman's question was good. is there another agency? there's really not another agency that has quite the same function. this is a different type of a function. most of our agencies really deal with performing a particular service. you have to deal with so many outside, inside people. ta's different. but we have to protect against bad people because there are always going to be bad people.

so, you know, the last administrator before this one, the administrator under george bush compared you, mr. miller, your tactics, to terrorism. i assume that was not a good working relationship. right. so, she's gone. now we have this camaraderie not based on personalities or power, but doing the right thing. so i would like to have a couple of thoughts and ask you to respond. a lot of us who have led organizations, whether they be small or large, know that the tone set at the top is critical. there's a very kind of a course expressi -- coarse expression, which i will say at my own risk, which is the fish thinks from the head. it makes sense. if the person at the top is not

good, it filters down, the ugliness. and we've got a good person at the top. we have a great inspector general, who has proved himself through various and sundry administrations. so, are you considering, mr. tangherlini, or have you done this, personal town halls with the gsa employees? it's my understanding that the good people there -- and you point to them -- are being forgotten. and that is the saddest, saddest, saddest thing. because my understanding -- and you can confirm this if i'm not correct -- that these current gsa employees following obama's directives, have saved more than $1 billion. >> they've helped us save $1 million by following -- >> i don't mean this. i mean by putting in energy efficiency. >> oh, right. yeah. >> and putting in better

computing and printing. >> absolutely. the value proposition goes well beyond that when you start looking at what we do in terms of competing travel in terms of strategic sources. >> let's be clear here for the taxpayer taxpayers to know. because of the president's directive to become efficient and save money, we have saved, is it fair to say, more than $1 billion for taxpayers? >> i think it's fair to say. >> okay. so, let's not lose that because that gets lost. how many people sitting here today work for gsa. could you raise your hand? i know what a painful thing this is. you know, every time there's a scandal in the senate, it hurts everybody. and we have them. it's ugly. and i know what you're going through. but i think what we can't lose sight of it the good people there.

and in order to make sure they are supported. are you considering having these types of meetings, whether it's large ones, out in the region? what are your plans to preserve that type of leadership? >> already on my second and third day at gsa, i went through the public building service, the local public building service. i went down to our region 11 office here in washington. i went to our fas and i went floor to floor and addressed gsa employees. i've already been on what we call chatter, which is our internal social networking dialogue opportunity to take questions from gsa employees. in my letter to gsa employees on the first day, i asked them to reach out to me. they have not been shy. they've been reaching out to me. and in our joint letter, we asked employees to reach out to both of us, if they have an issue. >> i think what's important, and this is my opinion, is for you

and your trusted people at the top to meet with groups of people, large groups of people and just let them know that we're going to deal with this matter. we're going to straight en this out. we're going to be known as the gsa team that cleaned up a mess that has happened over four decades and keeps on happening and we're going to clean it up. and it also seems to me -- you talk about innovation. innovation needs to be from the grass roots up. but if it has a cost to it, it needs to go to the central place here, because that's what you need. you need cost controls right now. on everything. i think you should overdo it. there's always a way to say i think we've overdone it. these guys did preconvention trips to try out the resort with

their friends. that's disgusting and it has to stop. so, any travel budget, it seems to me, needs to be looked at by your trusted people. every travel budget. and all the expenses. all of that has to be instituted, i think, to regain control over this runaway -- these runaway regions. i say regions, plural. i may be wrong. i don't mean to impugn anybody else. but your leadership in terms of reaching out to the good people is just as important as your leadership in punishing the bad people. it's a big job. and you have trusted people. so, i want to help you. i know senator inhofe does. i know members of the committee wants to help. it will work out to our benefit.

if we can help you straighten this out, because this is -- we're the biggest landlord. we have a lot of property. and we can really make it work for the taxpayers if we do it right. if we do it wrong, it will be no good. you have my full support here. come september, we'll take another look see on how everything is going. i'm going to turn it over now to s senator brasso. oh, senator carver, i'm so sorry. you were gone and now you're back. >> i'm happy to yield. >> no, go ahead. he'll take his final. >> all right. thank you for joining us today. i spent a lot of years in the navy. we were trained from an early age that leadership by example is one of the best forms of leadership. people may not believe what we say but believe what we do. none of us are perfect.

we all make mistakes. richard nixon used to say people who don't make mistakes are people that don't do anything. my father used to say just use some common sense. i think what happened here is common sense was not used. and leadership by example certainly was not pursued. it's a reminder for all of us that we need to use common sense and remember that people are watching us and that brings with it special responsibility. i have a couple of questions i want to ask. mr. miller. the irony of it is that we're focused on less than a billion dollars and there's a much larger amount with gsa every year, property that's owned by the federal government and in some cases we don't need. we spend a lot of money for

utilities and so forth. the administration is focused on this. your agency has been part of this. we need to be part of the solution. i think we'll be moving legislation later this year. i'm focused on speexpenditure o $800,000, but also the wide r expenditure of billions of billions of dollars, which is part of your responsibilities. mr. miller, it appears this was designed to uncover such wrongdoing, it actually worked as it was intended. according to your report, you were informed of potential employee misconduct with respect to the conference, i think by a gsa deputy administrator. is that right? >> that's correct. susan britta, who is sitting behind us. >> will you raise your hand, susan? okay, thank you. and that prompted you to launch yo

your investigation? >> yes, sir. >> and once you launched your investigation, how quickly did gsa leadership respond? >> i think former administrator m martha johnson is the one to answer that question. i went through the interim report of may 2011 with administrator johnson and her senior staff. i also, in august of 2011 -- >> can you just back up? start the time line for me. when did -- >> the timeline is the deputy administrator contacted our office around december of 2010. the actual conference is october 2010. somewhere around december of 2010, the deputy administrator came to our office. we began the investigation immediately. and in may 2011, we were finding such outrageous conduct that we took the unusual step of preparing an interim report.

we don't usually do that with investigations. but we prepared an interim power point to share with the administrator. we gave that to her. and her staff. >> that was may -- >> may 3rd, 2011. may 17, 2011, i met with her personally, went through the power point. we also had a separate -- >> what was her reaction, do you recall? >> she appeared to be disgusted by the power point. but we went through it. we also went through another draft i had that's called a hats off program, employee reward program. i won't bore you with the details. i went through that with her as well. in june of 2011, the hats off report became final. and that indicated wrong doing on the part of various gsa employees, especially the regional commissioner.

then in august 2011, i personally met with the newly appointed regional administrator for region nine. >> and that would be the administrator who had been removed, stepped down? >> well, there was a vacant regional administrator for region nine and that was vacant for a long time. and the regional commissioner, jeff neely, was acting regional administrator at the same time. >> i see. >> which may be part of the problem. but administrator johnson appointed someone to take charge as regional administrator. i personally briefed regional administrator in august of 2011 and suggested that she get a handle, get control of the regional commissioner's travel and that perhaps she could employ the -- her financial officer to help do some historical work as well, to let

her know what the true story was. and so that's the timeline. we came out with a final report, and i delivered it to administrator johnson on february 17. the way our system works, we'll do essentially what's a final report. we give it to the agency to make comments. so, they tell us whether we got the facts wrong or there's something wrong or they say, no, it's exactly right. either way, we publish their response and the whole thing is published. so, i give her what's technically called the draft final report february 17. and i gave her 30 days to prepare a response that we would publish with the report. she asked for an additional 30 days, but it was clear all along that we would publish whenever we received her response. ultimately, we received her response on april 2nd and that's when we published the final

report. >> all right. thank you. are you satisfied that the correct measures have been taken? just be very brief. are you satisfied with the corrective measures that have been taken? >> i think more needs to be done, senator. >> and give us some idea what that might be. >> well, i think there are a lot of challenges. perhaps the acting administrator wants to address those. >> i agree with the inspector general, more needs to be done. >> give me an idea of what that might be. >> we mentioned some around the stronger oversight in accountability of the regions, better and stronger financial management systems that reach into the regions. >> the issue -- madame chair, did you all get into the question -- and i'll just ask this of you really. the fact that there was not a regional administrator for

apparently a significant period of time? yeah. are there other regions -- do we have extended periods of time where there is no one in charge for extended periods? and what is the administration doing about that? >> some of that has to do with the changeover and time to appoint these positions but some of it had to do with the fact that the accountability of the regional commissioners had been transferred away from those regiona administrators and sent directly to the commissioner of the public building service. we learned yesterday in one of the hearings that there's almost some confusion about the organizational structure of gsa and we need to make that very clear and very obvious so we can have the kind of accountability we need. >> all right. thank you much. >> it was an important question. thank you for pursuing it. senator brasso?

>> just to follow up on senator carver's point and about getting -- bringing back the accountability. the question to the inspector general, do you have the resources that you need? you said there's more that needs to be found. do you have all the resources you need to bring back the accountability that taxpayers demand and deserve? >> we have 70 special agents. special agents do the interviewing. they have law enforcement authority. we have a number of auditors. we have a total of about 300. we have a number of viek ananca vacancies. because of appropriations we're not filling thosevacancies, but we're doing everything we can. >> thank you. >> thank you, madame chair. good to be with you today.

and really appreciate you doing this hearing. i think it's tremendously important to focus on the issues that the gsa does -- it does focus on. i'm going to talk a little bit about new mexico here. at the house hearings in our hearing today, many listed the outrages in this waste over the top conference. i'm not going to spend a lot of time on that. mind reader, sushi, luxury suites. when you're wasting taxpayer money, what happens in vegas does not stay in vegas. so, let's take a little bit more of a look here at this conference in terms of the big picture. and what's -- my first question will focus on all of these things you've done in the past. first to hit on new mexico. from a new mexico perspective,

this conference scandal is also worrisome for two reasons. first i'm disappointed that this conference involved the western regions of gsa, of which new mexico is a part, which is in the southwestern region, region seven. secondly, the scandal is distracting from the urgent gsa pending project in new mexico, the columbus land port of entry. columbus, new mexico, is a border town, across from palomas, mexico. gsa had a $60 million new land port of entry facility in its 2012 budget. in december, this committee approved a resolution, authorizing construction. this facility is extremely important to security, u.s./mexico trade and economic development in southwest new mexico. i was in columbus last week and heard about the importance of this project. we need to root out the waste and abuse at gsa and get back to the work that taxpayers want us to do, like economic development and border security.

so, mr. miller, you've talked a lot about the reports your office did regarding this wasteful conference in 2010. i would like to hear some more about your other works on wasteful spending so that we can put this current controversy into context and into perspective. here are a number of figures from your most recent semi annual report. and i hope you can tell us, really, what they mean. first of all, 460 million in questioned funds are recommended for better use. 376 million in criminal, civil and administrative recoveries, 260 new investigations, 71 cases accepted for prosecution. 85 indictments and 64 successful prosecutions. 88 contractors suspended and 61 contractors disbarred. now, there are similar figures in all the semi annual reports

going back to president bush. could you put this into perspective? we have this conference that's obviously a real waste of taxpay taxpayers' funds. some of the other things you're doing here, i think, are very important. and the dollar amounts are huge. could you put that in perspective? >> thank you, senator, for noticing. our office does a lot of great work. we have great auditors, great special agents, forensic audit ors. they do tremendous work. i'll start backwards. i made it a priority when i became inspector general in 2005 to make referrals for suspension in department. we have referred over 1,000 individuals and companies for disbarment so far. we've indicted a number of individuals and companies. this year alone, we indicted a group of individuals who were producing counterfeit integrated

circuits, claiming that they were cisco integrated circuits and then upgraded integrated circuits. they broke the code that cisco had to upgrade them and they would upgrade sometimes real ci cisco integrated circuits with counterfeit parts and sell them for a profit to the government and others. we convicted those individuals. they were convicted in the eastern district of virginia by the u.s. attorney's office there. we also investigated, which led to the conviction of 11 individuals involved, property managers managing properties in the d.c. area, including a manager of, i guess, white house facilities and they were taking bribes. for example, they would have an arrangement with a contractor to replace an exhaust fan and they would use their purchase card to charge $2,000 or $1,000 for replacement of a fan. in reality, the fan cost $80.

so, the contractor then would kickback part of that money to the contracting -- the property manager. so, 11 property managers and contractors were convicted earlier this year, august 2011. >> mr. miller, in terms of perspective, is the waste, fraud and abuse at gsa improving or getting worse overall? you've had a real perspective here, looking at this big picture issue. >> well, we continue to look at the larger systems, too. because we do audits of programs of gsa. and gsa -- we do audit programs regularly at gsa. having conferences is not a program of gsa. so it's not one of the regular things we audit. we will start now. but we audit their systems and we look at their work yearly. and we find more and more fraud,

waste and abuse. i don't know that we've sat back and compared how much fraud there is year by year. fraud by its very nature is hidden. and i'm happy that thanks to the hard work of our special agents, auditors, forensic auditors and lawyers, we're uncovering more and more fraud. >> well, the last two gsa administrators have had to resign. is there something about gsa? could you tell us why we're seeing that many scandals at gsa? what can you enlighten us on there? >> gsa handles a lot of money, millions, maybe billions of dollars flow through gsa. it handles a lot of money. handles a lot of property. there are a lot of contracts that it controls. there's a lot of temptation. and with over 12,000 employees, you're going to find criminal conduct, stupid conduct and just

plain negligence. so it's a large operation with a lot of employees. and so you do have criminal activity. >> madame chair, i see i'm out of time. i have one more question if i could have your indulgence here. i would like to ask the acting administrator, is this scandal going to distract gsa from doing its job, such as constructing essential federal facilities like the columbus, new mexico, border crossing land port of entry? >> well, we hope it won't, because that would add, you know -- that would add a very bad outcome to an already unacceptable situation. we need to make sure the gsa, the 13,000, nearly 13,000 gsa employees stay focused on their core mission and save taxpayers money. if they're diverted from that, we're only compounding the mi mistakes that were made at this conference. >> thank you. madame chair, i know you're a real watchdog over the treasury. i appreciate you holding this

hearing and making sure that we don't see these kinds of wasteful expenditures of taxpayer money. >> thank you, senator, for joining us. i think we've had a good -- a very important hearing. you know, we're not looking for photo-opes of people taking the fifth. we're now trying to move forward and make sure this doesn't happen again. now, the inspector general, in answer to senator ludell's question said something alarming. he's uncovering more and more fraud. it seems like it's a never-ending thing. mr. tangherlini, you're sitting next to a man who is saying he is uncovering more and more fraud. i'm encouraging you to do far more than even you thought you had to do, because you need to. because we are not going to change this. so i'm encouraging you here and supporting you in that effort. and as i think of ways, if i was

in your seat -- again, i would communicate with every single employee. have you done any type of an e-mail or any type of a letter or any type of a little chat? you said you chatted. >> yes. >> have you made a statement that all gsa employees, from the top to the bottom can hear you talk about, a, how much you respect the work they do and, b, how we have zero tolerance for fraud in any way? >> we need to continue to do that. but on my first day, i sent a letter to all gsa employees. i followed it up later in the week with a joint letter with the inspector general. and i've also done a video for all general services employees. >> good. >> we started the social media, the chatter conversations. there's going to be more of that. i like your idea of maybe using something like telepresents to get out to the regions. >> very important. >> and to talk to folks. >> you know what's going on

right now around the water cooler. >> right. >> not a lot of work. and i think people have to know, we have a job to do. it is our job to prove to america that this agency is filled with patriotic, loyal americans who want to do the right thing. and that is critical. what is so outrageous about this is how these bad actors, very bad actors, perhaps criminal actors, you know, have sullied the reputation of so many people. it really is so disturbing. and they try to also sully the reputation of our president, these people in some of the things that they did. so i think a reach-out here is critical. i also think -- you have 11 offices, is that right? 10 plus d.c., right? >> yes. >> so that's only -- so i would,

if i were you, i would find 11 of the best people i could find. seriously. the top-notch people, whether they're in the agency -- and, you know, you have good people there. find these people. i would, at this point, send them out to each of these offices and i think they ought to be special oversight officers. they're to make sure people get back to work, do their job and before all these papers go off to the central place, which i think is important, that there's somebody there who can liaison with you. so you don't have a situation where you've got the same people sending you the papers and you don't have that much confidence. i think that ought to be something that you consider. now, it may not be necessary to do it at every one of these offices, but i'll tell you right now, what i heard about from the

one in my state, it ought to be done. >> i already, in region seven, eight, nine and ten, in the public buildings commission, we're sending out new acting public buildings commissioners. >> good. >> i also took way from here that we need to very quickly focus on the role of the regional administrator and the clear accountability that those folks need to show over those regions. >> and sending someone out there to oversee it, whether that is a six-month assignment plucked from the best of your best is up to you. when i hear the inspector general, who i admire so much, who had to take so much verbal abuse in the past and has stuck with it -- when i hear him say he's looking, he's turning over rocks and every time he turns over a rock, something crawls out. that does not give me heart. i do not feel good. i'm so happy that you're both there, but i'm worried about what's to come. and i think, you know, you're

there now. and you have nothing to do with it, but from this point forward, you do. so, don't underestimate this job that you have in terms of shaking this tree. and let these bad apples fall. and have your best people in these regions. we become washington central sometimes in federal government. we really do. and one of the things i learned being in my job for a long time, thanks to the good people of my state, is that in the beginning there was always tension between my regional offices at home and my main office. my main office thought they were the best, the best, the best. and everybody was doing things out there wasn't so important. baloney. you know, the people on the ground are the ones who were meeting my constituents, the ones who were bringing the issues to me, the ones who were the face of my office. so we had a lot of heart-felt

meetings and now we're a seamless team. but it takes a lot of time. but i think that these regions have gone wild. this region went wild on you. they went rogue. and it can't happen. and it's still -- there's ugly things that are going to come out. let's face it. because we know that mr. miller isn't going to stop until he knows everything single thing. so i have -- so, will you consider this idea of -- i'm not just talking about a person of public buildings or -- i'm talking about an overall good person, to get in there and say to the region, we need to change and this is how it has to be. this is what our leader in washington said we're going to do. and we're going to do this for him. we're going to do this for the country. so, would you consider that type of approach? >> absolutely, senator. >> good. excellent. because i think it would really help. because the big word here is accountability and checks and

balances. and you know the expression, it's a government indemnity they use used to say back in the founding days, we're a government of laws, not men. today we would say we're a government of laws, not people. but we are a government of laws and people. as the inspector general said, we have the laws on the books. we have the rules on the books and these people skirted them, disobeyed them and it will happen till the end of time. but we've got to get to the bottom of this. and i think it is going to take your most trusted -- people with the most integrity to get out to these areas and make them understand, they don't just do anything that comes along. they have to carry out a very important mission and do it with the highest integrity. i have one more sort of sticky wicket, which is not a hard question for the inspector general at all.

but has anyone, in any way ever tried to stop you from this investigation in the senate? >> no. >> or in the house? >> no. >> has anyone called you and said go easy on this? >> no. >> has anyone called you, mr. tangherlini, senator or house member, and said go easy on this? >> uh, no. >> well, i want that clear. because we've got a chairman over in the house, who is saying that one of the senators is trying to stop this investigation. and that's an outrage. so i'm going to read in our close what the inspector general said. there's a glimmer of good news. the oversight system worked. my office aggressively investigated, audited, interv w interviewed and issued a report. no one stopped us from writing a report and making it public. and the whole ugly event is now laid bare for all to see.

sunlight is said to be the best of disin fefectant. how true. so let it be clear, there is no senator or member of congress that is doing anything other than trying to get to the bottom of this. the two of you and, i have to say, miss britta, you're the good guys, the heroes in this. we should never forget that. we stand with you, and we will be with you every inch of the way. and don't let anyone stop you from doing the right thing here. because the days are over of these parties. they're over. the days of being unaccountable at gsa are over. and we've got to make sure they're over long after we're -- none of us is sitting in any rooms. because that's what the carter administration thought. they put people to jail. there was fraud. they protected whistleblowers and we got back again and again and again. so let's make it, this time, set

into place a system that is going to stop all these bad things that have happened and more. and i think you do it with the best people and you do it with the kind of an organization that builds in the checks and balances. so if you have a bad actor, that bad actor is found out. there's a layer of support. one of the things about the defense at the airports -- and we all get -- we're all critical and we don't think they work and sometimes they're abused and so on, is a layered system of defense. it's a layered system. you know, you buy the ticket. you're checked out. you go through, you're checked out. you go to the desk, you're checked out. your baggage is checked. everything is checked. if you have multiple checks, then you're doing your best. does it mean it's perfect? does it mean it's foolproof? no. because we're humans. but i think you can do it. if ever i saw two people -- three, if i might add -- who have the integrity and who have the will, it's the three of you.

and the others here, who i don't know, who i believe want to help you do it. so, let's show the world, let's show our taxpayers that we're going to fix this and although this is a horrible situation and we could see more parade of horribles, we're going to change it and thank you very much. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

this year's studentcam comte's -- competition were asked what part of the constitution was important to them. >> up in the sky, it's a bird. >> it's a plant. ." it's superman. >> and now another exciting episode in the adventures of superman. >> ♪ >> can we all rise to the hon. judge jenny?

>you may be seated. >> our next case is lois lane vs superman. lois lane is accusing the defendant of violating her fourth amendment rights by using his x-ray vision to see through her clothes and thus violating her privacy. >> i would like to enter a plea of not guilty. >> does the plight of have an opening statement? >> yes, she does, your honor. the point of claims that on numerous occasions, the defendant has used his x-ray vision to violate her personal privacy and fourth amendment rights. he said he was only doing so for his personal project -- for her personal protection. >> does the defendant had an opening statement? >> the defendant would like to point out that he only uses his

superpowers for good and in this case was making sure that lois was not carrying any diseases. that might affect our anyone that comes in contact with her. he would also like to inform the court that the uses of tax revision are being used daily by thousands of individuals. the washington, d.c. circuit court of appeals has recently ruled that the searches are legal and not violate an individual's fourth amendment rights. >> it is a very valid point. i will take that under consideration. i have just received evidence in this case. please discard the video. -- please start the video. >> did you ever watched the video? >> are you aware of the superpowers he adds? >> yes. >> can you name a few for me?

>> x-ray vision, he can fly, deflects bullets. >> yes, what if i told you that every day all around the world government is using full body scanners much like superman would be able to see three people and the scanners can see three un they are designed to pick up drugs or weapons are contraband on planes. have you come in contact with these before? >> no, but i did security and deriek crouse i know it "-- what is all about. >> can you explain what you know about these scanners? >> they are outdated now. they are putting in a new one cat shows features of a person. it does an outline. >> so they are trying to come up with these new versions to let people feel more comfortable with the machine? >> correct. >> full body scanner is a device

that creates an image of a person's nude body through their claws into rigid clothing to look for hidden objects without physical removing their clothes or making physical contact. they are being deployed at airports and train stations in many countries. the x-ray creates images that are displayed only to 80 essay officer and britain -- in a remote secured abbas -- area. the officer cannot see the passengers in person and the officers grinning the passengers cannot see the images. -- screening the passengers cannot see the images that i do you have any reservations about entering one of these? >> a little bit sometimes. it is a bit intimidating. >> are your reservations about health or privacy? >> privacy. >> you think this file is a person's privacy?

>> i do. >> do have many restrictions that entered one of these? >> i do not. ♪ >> in this nation, the document that sets forth the supreme law of the land, the constitution, is meant to empower not excluded racial profiling is wrong. >> the csa says -- a the tsa says they do these scans randomly paired with a person comes in the middle east, would they be more subject research? >> certainly so. >> if you had a middle eastern scan ton, are you more subject to one of these searches? do you believe they are random? >> no, i don't believe there are random at all. >> a want to start off with background knowledge. do you know what they tsa is? >> no. >> it is the transportation security administration.

have you ever been on an airplane? >> yes. >> they look like police. they take your id and your passport and put your things through the x-ray. >> yes. >> are you familiar with what a full body scanner is? >> yes. >> it is a machine and a random the selects people to go in and do a post and they can take an x-ray of you can see three or to pass through your clothes. out of the seven people, which person would you select and are most uncomfortable with passenger the airport? which person will have issues? >> #3. >> why? >> after conducting a survey with school students, it appears they had a bias towards 5.

>> i think is video presents the facts well and i would like to make a ruling on this case. the tsa full body scanners have a direct purpose to protect the general public from potential terrorist threats. [inaudible] it does not protect the public from an impending danger and i find the defendant guilty as charged. >> thank you, thank you. >> will you please place the defendant in incarceration. >> how do you feel about the ruling against your client? >> we believe it is unconstitutional.

superman stand for truth, justice, and the american way and should not be convicted with what people do every day. >> thank you. >> .o go to >rg to watch the women --. and go to --org. studentcam.org. >> there is live coverage of the house on c-span at 9:00 and also on c-span 2, house majority leader eric cantor is interviewed by mike allan from politico. a little later, about 10:00, defense secretary leon panetta and joint chiefs of staff chairman martin down to testify on capitol hill about the situation in syria. you can see that on c-span 3. on [video clip] "washington