be exposed and programming -- deprogramming as opposed to one particular point of view. and i think a lot of americans are ready for that. i think there is a market for it. host: we will have to leave the conversation there. james duff, ceo of the newseum, and leo pfeifer, winner of the studentcam competition, first prize for middle school. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you, pedro. and congratulations, leo, a wonderful job. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the order of the house of january 17, 2012, the chair will now recognize members from lists submitted by the majority and minority leaders for morning hour debate.

the chair will alternate recognition between the parties with each party limited to one hour and each member other than the majority and minority leaders and the minority whip limited to five minutes each, but in no event shall debate continue beyond 11:50 a.m. the chair recognizes the gentleman from michigan, mr. walberg, for five minutes. excuse me. before the gentleman starts. the chair would like to clarify debate will not go beyond 12:50 p.m. please proceed. mr. walberg: thank you, mr. speaker. i'll keep it short. three years ago president obama promised congress that the american people would have a 6% unemployment in exchange for trillions of taxpayer dollars to pump in the economy. today we know that the stimulus program was mismanaged, ill conceived and failed to create the jobs promised by the president.

for 38 straight months and counting, the unemployment rate has remained above 8%. the american people realize something that my democrat friends seem don't understand, that government cannot create jobs and shouldn't be in the business of handing out jobs. in 2010, the american people sent me and many of my colleagues to washington to cut government spending and offer real solutions to job creation. we've been aggressively fighting to achieve that challenge. our country needs commonsense, pro-growth policies that will help small businesses regain their confidence. when business owners have faith that the government will not raise their taxes, impose new unnecessary regulations and pick winners and losers in the marketplace, they'll invest more. when they invest more the company grows and the opportunity for american jobs grows with it. just last week we saw a very

clear picture of the different visions for job creation held by folks in washington. my friends in the senate voted on but thankfully failed to pass the buffett rule. the act would impose a tax hike on one class of americans and would pay for approximately 11 hours of government functioning. talk about a cynical reuss serving only to divide our country for political purposes. but while my democrat colleagues in the senate are working to raise taxes on america's job creators, the house is trying to lower them. last woke we passed the small business tax cut which will give businesses with fewer than 500 employees a 20% tax reduction off their active business income and encourage the creation of more jobs for our citizens. data shows that seven out of every 10 jobs in this country are created by companies with fewer than 500 employees.

my republican colleagues and i truly believe that small businesses are the backbone of our country's economy and their success is vital to our economic recovery. we continue to act proactively and as reflected in the 27 job creating measures passed by the house this congress alone to ensure job providers are able to create, innovate and lead. we hope our friends in the senate and white house will decide to join us as we say yes to american jobs for american people. mr. speaker, i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from georgia, mr. johnson, for five minutes. mr. johnson: thank you, mr. speaker. ladies and gentlemen, a shadow collection, a shadowy collection of wealthy

businesses and conservative tea party republican state lawmakers is undermining our democracy. last week i discussed the connection between the american legislative exchange council, known as alec, and the proliferation of shoot first and ask questions later legislation that's part of the tray -- travon martin case that we know about. according to "the new york times," quote, alec lawmakers typically introduced more than 1,000 bills based on model legislation each year and passed about 17% of them. a members only newsletter from 1995 found in an online archive of tobacco company documents bluntly characterized that success ratio as a good

investment, end quote. i agree they have gotten an outstanding return on their investments but it's been at yours and mine expense. due to alec, the n.r.a. and the private for-profit prison industry, we are all less safe and more likely to be put in jail. the for-profit prison industry, on the other hand, has reaped huge financial rewards from alec-sponsored efforts to incarcerate more americans and put them as well as illegal immigrants into this private prison system. and for the private prison industry where they're paid as

low as two cents per hour that sell goods that are later sold for profit, business is booming. but alec does not stop there. alec's corporate members are some of the biggest polluters and one of the most profitable oil companies. alec's corporate factory has ghost written legislation on their behalf to combat efforts to address climate change and oppose national renewable energy standards, among others. in 1998, according to the center for media and democracy, alec belched a resolution out of its smoke staff calling states to ban to regulate greenhouse gases. alec's energy and agriculture task force has since turned out modeled bills criticizing the environmental protection agency.

recently alec has focused on what they call the peaverplet's regulatory train wreck, seeking to enforce the clean air act as higher prices, fewer jobs and less energy -- alec's supporters like the koch brothers, named the top 10 polluters in a massachusetts study, began attacking every effort to clean up the mess that they themselves have made. why? because they want to continue to make more money. alec is dumping its waste right here in congress. after the tennessee coal ash disaster, alec began pushing a model resolution called resolution to retain state authority over coal ash as nonhazardous waste. can you believe that? this resolution was approved by

alec on june 3, 2010, just over a year later, october 14, 2011, this house passed a bill that authorizes states to adopt and implement coal combustion -- coal combustion residuals permit programs. mr. speaker, this is only the tip of the melting iceberg. yes, global warming is at work, and it is melting this iceberg that alec represents. i encourage the american people to visit the alecexposed.org website where you can view leaked alec documents, including model bills as well as a list of alec members. about 60% of the state legislators in this country are members of alec. mr. speaker, i'll return

tomorrow with more on how corporations are using alec to install their agenda in the states and in congress, undermining our basic rights and freedoms, and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the chair recognizes the gentleman from, mr. pompeo, for five minutes. mr. pompeo: thank you, mr. speaker. i speak today in my role as representative and as a christian and former soldier. i urge this body and our president to defeat iran's efforts to build a nuclear weapon and delivery system, the combination of which presents a world-changing threat to every american, every israeli and citizens all over the world. i've had the privilege to travel twice to the holy land. one cannot feel the momentus nature of these places. this is the focal point of the

three's abrahamic religions. our declaration of independence talks of a humanity created by its creator and the land we speak of here is the land where he walked, the land where he taught and the land where my faith teaches me that he gave his life for each of us. and now this land is menaced by a dangerous enemy. one cannot stare at a map without plotting the strategic course open to this enemy. one is struck by the minuscule time with a missile departing for iran to this land loaded with weapons of mass destruction. mr. speaker, it's election season and our president appears to be more interested in dissueding israel from defending its people that he is from not letting ahmadinejad achieve nuclear weaponry. particularly this danger knows no timetable. and political calculation amidst such peril is an advocation of duty as commander

in chief. we heard an israel attack would destabilize the renal and without a doubt to some degree this is absolutely so. by an order of magnitude would be a permanent threat of a nuclear armed iran. it's folly to treat temporary peace with permanent menace. our intelligence have said that iranians have decided to not yet built a bomb. the threat was either ignored or considered too irrational to be possible by disstracted world bent out of avoiding conflict. mr. speaker, this body must oppose the weakness our president has spoken of on this issue. our commander in chief is fighting against every iranian sanctions measure that we have presented to him. he's amused about returning to our pre-1967 borders. as if it's a road test. and he's sided with the

palestinians regarding security. weakness always greets and invites aggression. perceptions influence outcomes and possibly determine them. with this in mind we must in no uncertain times have unwavering commitment to the defense and support of israel. the perception that we mean it, that we mean it without reserve and that -- and will serve to inhibit iran's nuclear ambitions as sure that vacillation will serve to strengthen it. we're mindful, too, when the president said he believed himself to be out of reach of microphone that he was tired of president netanyahu too. he said, quote, i have to deal with him every day. this was an all-too rare and certainly valuable glimpse into the heart of the president. it seems to confirm to me what many suspect and gives president ahmadinejad courage that despite careful language,

the president will crumble when israel needs him most. mr. speaker, i will say in front of this microphone and on the record this morning that i'm tired. i'm tired of creating risk for america's democratic foot hold in the middle east. i'm tired of a notion that israel is some way or another the aggressor and i'm tired of the president speaking of a moral equivalence between iran and israel. there are but a few moments in history that have set the relationship among nations and i believe this is one of them. we must make a powerful and commitment to the nation of israel or we must make a commitment to prevent iran from achieving nuclear weaponry. iran must not be allowed for even one moment to even doubt our will and must not be allowed to think twice about our willingness to act. the fate of the jewish people and the american people, one inseparateable, depend on it. i yield back, mr. speaker. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. . the chair recognizes the

gentleman from oregon, mr. blumenauer, for five minutes. mr. blumenauer: thank you, mr. speaker. tonight there is a special ceremony as duncan campbell is honored at the 84th annual first citizen award banquet. i'm sorry duties require me to be here in washington, d.c., instead of with hundreds of his friends and admirers in portland. this is a very special award for a unique human being. duncan has a very compelling personal story working his way through a childhood marched by neglect and alcoholism. he put himself through college and did the same at law school, earning his degree at the university of oregon. he founded the campbell group, a very successful firm pioneering work establishing timber investment funds. he soon became recognized as an innovator and industry leader, but his real story is his lifelong commitment to children. shaped by his own difficult

early experience, duncan has focused on ways he can use his success financially and intellectually to advance the cause of disadvantaged children. he's done this in numerous ways, but i think his greatest achievement is the establishment of an organization known as friends of children. he put part of the proceeds of the sale of his company to establish the program in 1993. starting small, it was built around the principle that troubled young people need a constant adult presence supporting, guiding, not just mentoring, but really becoming a part of their lives. and over the years it has proven to be spectacularly successful. currently there are 90 friends who are paid full-time mentors, each serving as a caring adult, a constant presence for a handful of children. these friends are not just in

portland, oregon, but in rural oregon and klamath falls and projects in boston, new york, and seattle. duncan's vision is to focus on the children with the very highest risk factors. these children statistically would undoubtedly fail to complete school. most would have problems with drug or alcohol early unplanned out-of-wedlock pregnancy, and almost all would fall in the criminal justice system. the results of his handiwork are overwhelming and compelling. 85% of these children who most experts agree would otherwise fall through the cracks or worse, 85% of these young people graduate from high school. 90% avoid involvement with the criminal justice system. and even though 60% of these

at-risk children are part of a program that have a parent who has been incarcerated, 90% avoid that involvement with the justice system. despite the fact that 60% of these children were born to a teen parent, 95% avoid early parenting themselves. according to a report by the harvard business school association of oregon, every dollar invested in the organization results in more than $7 in reduced social costs for the community and untold richness for the children involved. this is an amazing program with compelling results. and it was willed into existence by my friend, duncan campbell. portland honors him this evening but all americans should honor not just the example but the specifics. friends of children is a program that works and should be replicated. i will do all i can to help the

federal government find a way for it to be a partner in this unparalleled success story. this is the best way to honor duncan, his vision, and his commitment. thank you. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from tennessee, mr. duncan, for five minutes. mr. duncan: request permission to address the house for one minute, revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. the gentleman is recognized. mr. duncan: last night i had the privilege of sitting with the university of tennessee coach pat summit as she received the top award presented by the national alzheimer's association. this is the sergeant and eunice shriver profiles in dignity award and it was presented by their well-known daughter, maria. no one could have been more deserving of this award than coach summit. as the nation knows she was diagnosed with early onset dementia or alzheimer's almost a year ago. she made the decision to go to

both go public with this diagnosis and continue coaching her beloved lady vols. now she has decided to give up her coaching job after 38 years to lead the fight against alzheimer's. she and her son, tyler, have established the pat head summit foundation to carry on this battle that is and will be so very, very important to millions of people. pat head summit is certainly the most admired and respected woman in tennessee. she is my most famous constituent and a long time friend. i have been honored on two occasions to be her honorary assistant coach. the first time was on her 25th anniversary as a coach, and the second time was a few years later against vanderbilt on the last home game of the season. before that game, we were given a scouting report and it betown had beaten vanderbilt in nashville by 30 minutes. it is ackvat to -- accurate to say the team was confident about the game. however at halftime the game was almost tied and the lady vols

came into ther room with their heads hanging down. that's when i saw coach summit go into action. she got into each young woman's face like a baseball manager arguing with an umpire. she started with lady vol, theresa, and told her in a drill sergeant's voice she was going through a pity party out there and coach summit was having no part of it. and was giving her two minutes to make her presence known on that court or she was going to yank her out of there so fast it would make her head swim. when we went back out for the second half, the first thing that happened was that theresa stole the ball, took it downcourt, and scored her first two points of the game. they went on a 20-0 run and vanderbilt called a time-out. a spectator in the stands whom i had not seen because there were 20,000 people there sent his card down to me on the bench and said, great halftime coaching, come again. but it was not me. it was coach summit. in fact, when she was staring each one of her players in the face at halftime in an intensely

very angry, loud voice, i was glad i was not one of those players. coach summit is the winningest coach in basketball history with 1,098 victories. her teams have won 16 southeastern conference championships and eight national championships. she has coached in 18 final fours. she has an 84%, 84% winning record as head coach. but to me her most impressive statistic is the 100% graduation rate. she did not allow her players to take easy quorses -- courses. let me repeat that, every player who has ever played for coach summit in her 38 years has graduated. she made sure they were prepared for life after basketball and almost all of her players have been successful after leaving the university of tennessee. on top of all this, she has never had a question raised about her recruiting or any ncaa violation. she has shown through the years that you do not have to cheat in

sports to win and be very successful. she has succeeded at her most important job, being a mother. and raising her fine son, tyler, who is following in his mother's footsteps and will soon start his first job as an assistant coach for the marquette women's basketball team. coach summit is a member of the women's basketball hall of fame, was ncaa coach of the year an unprecedented seven times. in 2000 she was named the naismith coach of the year. pat head summit is a woman of honor and integrity. she has been a great, great success because her very hard work, dedication, determination, and discipline. most of her success she credits to hardworking parents and lessons learned on her family's tennessee farm. this nation is a better place today because her work with young people and the inspiring example that she has set for all of us. coach pat head summit is truly a great american. i am proud to call her one of my constituents. as i said, one of my very, very

close friends. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentlewoman from california, ms. richardson, for five minutes. ms. richardson: permission to address the house for five minutes. revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. the gentlewoman is recognized. ms. richardson: mr. speaker, the higher education system in the united states has for many years been the envy of the world. the universities here are a part of america's backbone, providing young people with the skills and knowledge necessary to succeed in today's changing global economy. however, mr. speaker, right now the cost of tuition at universities has risen so dramatically all across this country that attendance is tough to achieve. nowhere is this truer than in public universities in the state that i represent, in california, where budget cuts, furlough days, and tuition increases have

become a new normal at the expense of higher learning. average in-state tuition and fees at public four-year institutions have risen 8.3% in 2010 and now in the classes in 2011. as a result of these increases, tuition at public and private universities now has caused student loan debt to exceed credit card debt, totaling $870 million. it's expected to reach $1 trillion this year. students graduating from college between 2006 and 2010 had a medium student loan debt of over $20,000. not only are young adults in debt but recent graduates are also facing one of the toughest job markets in recent memory. in 2007, when i started here in congress, we worked to pass the college cost reduction and access act which among many other things lowered the interest rate of subsidized stafford loans from 67.8% to

3.4%. -- 6.8% to 3.4%. as a result of these lower interest rates, more students were able to afford to go to college. in order to keep college affordable, democrats in congress and president obama are urging the house g.o.p. leadership to bring forward the legislation that will prevent these interest rates on student loans from doubling this july. i'm a proud co-sponsor of h.r. 3826, the student loan affordability act which will prevent the interest rate on subsidized stafford loans from doubling in july. by extending the current interest rate, we are making an investment in our country's future. our economy depends upon the educated work force, to outcompete, to outinnovate the rest of the world, which is something we have known to do for quite some time. statistics tell us that it also makes a difference if you're able to go to college. according to the bureau of labor and statistics, the unemployment rate for those 25 years and older who have got their

bachelor's degree, their unemployment rate is only 4.2%. for those unfortunately who were not able to attend and graduate, the unemployment rate exceeds over 10%. unlike pell grants which provide a vital benefit to low-income families and students, stafford student loans also benefit lower income families who need financial assistance as well. congress should not wait and allow this increase to take place. it would for all intents and purposes be a tax increase on middle and low-income families and students during this very fragile economic recovery. i urge the republican majority and speaker boehner to take action now and to prevent this increase. we are seeing right now the impact of an american economy when congress waits too long to act on issues of national importance such as our nation's debt. students and families cannot wait any longer to know how much they will have to pay and owe coming out of college. why?

because that might impact whether they can even go at all. mr. speaker, i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from tennessee, mr. fincher, for five minutes. mr. fincher: permission to address the house for five minutes. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, the gentleman is recognized. mr. fincher: today i rise in order to honor coach pat summit. pat summit is most well-known for her coaching career with the lady volunteers at the university of tennessee in knoxville. but her basketball legacy at u.t. began long before she won her first national championship as a coach. i am proud to represent weekly county which is home to the university of tennessee at martin where coach summit played on the women's basketball team from 1970 to 1974. while there coach summit was named an all american player, led her team to the first women's national championship basketball tournament, in 1972, and graduated as u.t. martin's

all-time leading scorer with 1,045 points. today u.t. martin's basketball court is named pat head summit court honoring coach summit's leadership and agreements on the university women's basketball team. her basketball enthusiasm and competitive spirit have defined her career and inspired young women across the state of tennessee and throughout our nation. it's no secret that coach summit has an incredible record as the head coach for the lady volunteers, and has been a driving force behind the development of women's college basketball over the last 38 years. her legacy is one of the greatest basketball coaches ever is solidified by her achievements, but more importantly because she has been a friend and mentor to her players and staff. during her tenure as head coach, every lady vol who completed her eligibility at u.t. earned a college degree or is in the process of completing her degree requirements.

i saw video recently about how former players and managers presented coach summit with a book of personal letters sharing their memories and putting down in writing what coach summit has meant to them. this video mention that is the letters not only speak of her influence as a coach, but how she has helped players past and present through some of the most difficult times they faced in life. . this speaks volumes about who coach summit is to her players and helping student athletes discover what they want in life. i am confident that coach summit will continue to approach of life's new opportunities and challenges with as much intensity, determination and integrity as she did during her career as head coach of the lady vols. in fact, coach summit is in d.c. this week to receive an award recognizing her efforts to promote greater understanding of alzheimer's disease and its effects on

diagnosed individuals, families and caregivers. she is already proving she's a force to reckon with as she faces this disease head-on. i'm proud to call her a fellow tennessean and wish her the best as she transitions into a new role with the lady vols. god bless you, coach summit, and thank you for all you've conand we will continue to do for the great state of tennessee women's basketball and for the fight to find a cure for alzheimer's. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. hinchey, for five minutes. mr. hinchey: mr. chairman, i rise today to recognize the life and achievement of my dear friend, levon helm, who passed away last week surrounded by close family members. he will be remember as the acclaimed vocalist levon helm

sextets. we know simply as the band which gained international critical acclaim. it was given by bob dylan when he lived with the band members in a house known as big pink. the famed bassman tapes which recorded dylan was recorded. when the album was released in 1975 it rose to number seven in the billboard 200 list. we all remember levon's country voice from songs like "up on cripple creek." these songs and others have stood the test of time and will be remembered for how they helped shape a generation of rock music and everything that came thereafter. without a doubt, levon's contributions to american music cannot be overstated, but

beyond the music, we cannot forget levon the man. i knew him well. he was a beacon of our hudson valley community. he was always willing to open his doors to help raise money for important local causes. he was a tremendous supporter of local agriculture. he worked to bring music into our schools and communities. he was a great person and a great friend. after the release of his "dirt farmer" album, levon put on free concerts for the community at gils farm. once he attracted so many fans that state route 209 was closed down. he would host concerts at his farm in woodstock and inviting the premiere musicians to perform all into the night.

and also his dog, bear, everyone loved that dog. people traveled hundreds of miles away to attend. i lived just a few miles down the road and had the privilege of attending many of those events, and they were really something else. wonderful and amazing. watching levon perform over the years, you get the sense that despite all the fame, awards and note right at his core, he was a man who felt music deeply in his bones. it's what made him one of the world's great performing artists. his passing is a loss for all of us, but when i think of the sadness we all feel, i am reminded by some of his leerks in a recent song -- lyrics in a recent song entitled "when i go away," i don't want no crying. only tears of joy.

i'm going to see my mother, going to see my father and i'll be bound for glory in the morning when i go away. i'll be lighted up to the clouds on the wings of angels. there's only flesh and bones in the ground where my troubles will stay. all my kin who love me, all my friends who care, look beyond the dark clouds, we're going to meet up there. when they lay me in the cold ground, bow your heads and pray, and i'll be bound for glory in the morning, when i go away. levon will forever be remembered in our community and throughout the world and in our hearts. he was our neighbor and my good friend. i miss him dearly. levon has gone home, but his music will live on for all of

us forever. thank you. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from tennessee, mr. dess jar lay, for five -- mr. desjarlais, for five minutes. mr. desjarlasis: when talking about pat summit, it cannot do full justice when talking about his career at the university of tennessee. throughout her years of coaching the lady volunteers, she has a list of achievements on and off the court that would rival any coach in the history of college basketball. that includes 1,098 wins, more than any in ncaa basketball. 16 southern conference championships, seven s.e.c.

tournament championships, 18 final four appearances, eight national championships and two olympic medals. without a doubt, coach summit is a monumental figure in the world of college sports. her leadership and sportsmanship, along with her sheer talent as a coach, are universally admired by her competitors, colleagues and fellow coaches. she brought an unmatched level of pride and note right to both the sport of basketball and the university of tennessee. but most importantly, she has been a guiding force in the lives of so many young people. time and time again, she has led her players to victory both on the court and in the classroom. under her guidance, every lady volunteer player who finished her eligibility at tennessee has graduated. coach summit's life should serve as a model for everyone to strive toward. she is a fierce competitor, a selfless mentor and a dedicated

advocate of women's athletics. i was glad to hear she will still remain an important part of the program and i know that all lady vol fans will look forward to her continued presence. i think we would all agree that if a mount rushmore of college coaches existed, her image will be etched upon it. there will never be another pat summit. now as she moves towards a new chapter in her life, i wish her and her family all the best and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from tennessee, mr. fleeshman, for five minutes. -- mr. fleischmann, for five minutes. mr. fleischmann: mr. speaker, i rise today to honor a woman who is a living legend in my home state of tennessee. a star basketball player, pat summit played at the university

of tennessee martin and served as co-captain on the 1976 u.s. olympic women's basketball team. pat summit began coaching the lady vols basketball at the university of tennessee just before the start of the 1974-1975 season. starting as a graduate assistant, she was quickly promoted to head coach where she earned $250 a month and drove the team van. 38 years and 1,098 wins later, pat summit is now the winningest coach in ncaa basketball history for either a men's or a woman's team. she is the only ncaa coach with over 1,000 wins and she still has never had a losing season as head coach. this is a pretty impressive record in its own right, but the legacy of pat summit does

not end there. indeed, i could speak about her accomplishments for the entire morning hour. i could mention her eight ncaa championships and 16 southeastern conference seasons and 16 s.e.c. tournament titles or her unmatched career, 84% winning percentage. it is clearly evident that pat summit is unmatched -- is an unmatched coach on the field. her off-the-field accomplishments are even more impressive. in an era rife with collegiate sports scandals, pat summit has upheld the track record of encouraging and maintaining a 100% graduation rate. she produces young women of character whose academic successes make them good

citizens in the world as well as great basketball players. 11 of her former players were on the wnba roster last year. and she has coached two wnba m.v.p.'s. 16 collegiate head coaches have either played or coached under her. the success of her players, both on and off the court, is a testament to the dedication she has given to the well-rounded development of her players. when i return back to the university of tennessee, my alma mater, the legacy of coach pat can be found everywhere. from the students and lady vol's attire, to pat head summit street in knoxville, and the summit basketball court in the thompson arena. throughout tennessee, her legacy is strong as well. she has a gym named after her at u.t. martin and at her high school. pat summit's true legacy,

however, is the alumni who have succeeded due to her hard work and the thousands of young women who have pursued excellence in sports and have been successful due to her example. pat summit retired from coaching april 18, and will continue to serve the lady vols as head coach amayor tuss. she now -- emeritus. she now faces the battle of early onset alzheimer's disease. like her coaching career, i know she will face this disease with krge and determination. we -- courage and determination. we will be praying and thinking about her throughout this battle and we know we will miss her input on the landscape of tennessee. thank you. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the gentlewoman from tennessee, mrs. blackburn, for five minutes. mrs. blackburn: i ask unanimous consent to address the house for five minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman is recognized for five minutes. mrs. blackburn: mr. speaker, the government accountability

office says that cyberattack has grown. the cost is estimated to be $388 billion. allowing these trends to proliferate is bad for job creation, consumer protection and the future of the internet whose future success will greatly depend on improving user trust and security online. the u.s.-driven digital revolution has created countless opportunities, freedoms and economies of scale. we're the india of the world in that regard. this revolution is continuing to be driven by information and data. data is really the natural resource that will power our nation's future but only if we safeguard it appropriately. new online presence and digital diaries or what i like to refer to as the virtual you is consistently growing and

expanding as individuals and businesses operate online. we need to have the certainty that we can continue our business online without virtual peeping toms and digital thiefs, enjoyable uncontrolled access on the online ecosystem. that's why i was troubled to read an article in "politico". we're being attacked by cybersnoopers and state sponsors of cyberespionage like china, russia and iran. but the white house is throwing its hands up in the air, unwilling to lead. the president refused to take a position because advisors in the white house wanted to go farther in ceding authority to the department of homeland security which can't even manage the transportation security administration.

washington always wants more power and control. congressmen rogers and ruppers -- ruppersberger have worked together to articulate the need for cyberintelligence, our sharing and protection. the cyberintelligence sharing and protection act will help us fight against cyberattackers and hackers that want to steal our private or our government information. it also maintains protections for individuals' privacy. the bill's language is specific. it doesn't allow the government to use shared information for noncybersecurity purposes. it requires an independent inspector general to audit volunteer information shared with the government. the voluntary information sharing framework is preferable

because incentive-base security works better than heavy handnd mandates but the white house and senate democrats disdepre with the technology experts. -- disagree with the technology experts. they think there is a cookie cutter way of addressing cybersecurity challenges. we shouldn't pretend we have all the challenges and we should not and cannot allow the government's massive bureaucracy to expand. it's constantly suffocating innovation and entrepreneurship in this country. this legislation presents the framework that's flexible and dynamic, not one that's static and topdown. this approach is narrow, not presumptive. the tech industry wants to focus its energy resources and attention on real-time dynamic threats and responses. moreover, government shouldn't be telling anyone how to regulate critical infrastructure when it hasn't been able to get its own networks and systems secure. .

the office of budget and management reported almost 32,000 attacks on federal networks in 2010. an increase of almost 40% over the previous year. that's why i'm happy to see congressman darrell issa's bill coming to the floor. without a doubt we need better oversight on our federal information technology systems. each day brings new challenges in the fight to protect our nation's virtual space and technology innovation, but the cybersecurity bills before the floor this week are unlike the pro-regulatory frameworks that particularly are washington's policymaking. let's move forward with the common sense voluntary tools we need to strengthen our cyberdefense, the internet economy, and virtual you. let's show some leadership. i yield back my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman yields back. the chair recognizes the

gentleman from north carolina, mr. mchenry, for five minutes. mr. mchenry: thank you, mr. speaker. the master from flint hill. the innovator of the three finger bango style. these are the names given to one of north carolina and my congressional district's favorite sons. mr. speaker, the welcome sign for the city of shelby in my district says, welcome to shelby, city of pleasant living, home of earl scruggs. indeed, shelby, cleveland county, and all of north carolina and indeed the nation are mourning the loss of musical icon earl scruggs who passed away last month at the age of 88. when you think of the word bluegrass, a few names come to mind, bill monroe, doc watson, and of course earl skru --

scruggs. earl grew up on the farm in the flint hill community in shelby and worked in a cotton mill. that's until he was given the chance to play in bill monroe's band. that led him to quickly strike off on his legendary career with lefter flatt. together flatt and scruggs defined bluegrass music in the 1950's and 1960's recording such classics as "the bat of jake clampett" and "foggy mountain breakdown." earl received a star on the hollywood walk of fame in 2003. was i ducted into the country music hall of fame in 1985 and received numerous grammys including a lifetime achievement award. he's also -- he also recorded with musicians as diverse as johnny cash, sting, and even elton john. most importantly for his beloved hometown of shelby, his legend will live on locally. thammings to an overwhelming

community effort for the past several years, work is now under way to turn the historic 105-year-old cleveland county courthouse into the earl scrugs -- scruggs, this effort will focus on music and stories and preserve the legacy of earl scruggs. drawing on the region's rich history in music, the center will enlighten, educate, and celebrate the traditions and people of cleveland county and region for that matter, all the while honoring earl scruggs. legendary comedian and accomplished banjo player steve martin summed it up best when he said, quote, before him no one had ever played the banjo like he did. after him, no one -- nobody played the banjo -- i'm sorry, after him everybody played the banjo like he did. or at least tried.

imitation is the kindest form of flattery. and indeed earl scruggs has many folks that tried to emulate what he created. he will be missed. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the chair declares the house in recess until 1:00 p.m. >> it also cuts funding forings and conferences held by federal agencies by 20%. this is in light recrend spending in the general services administration where agency officials authorized over $800,000 for a conference held near las vegas. members will also work on highway and mass transit programs. live coverage of the house when they return here on c-span.

off ther floor beginning at 11:00 a.m. eastern a tribute will be held for congressman donald payne who i died last month after battling colon cancer. it will be live here on c-span when it gets under way. again at 11:00 eastern. after mitt romney's sweep of five presidential primaries yesterday, newt gingrich is sending out signals he may soon throw in the towel. the national journal citing a speech to the gaston county g.o.p. in north carolina where he's quoted as saying, quote, it's pretty clear governor romney will be the nominee. i think you have to at some point be honest what's happening in the real world as opposed to what you would like to have happened. obviously i would be a better candidate, but the objective fact is voters didn't think that. also, i think it's very, very important that we be unified. mr. gingrich said he'll continue to campaign in north carolina through the weekend and that we are working out the details of our transition and will have information for the press in the next couple days. again we are planning live

coverage of that tribute to the late new jersey congressman, donald payne, which is happening in statuary hall in the u.s. capitol, said to start at 11:00 eastern. until then your phone calls from today's "washington journal." host: the "denver post" has a write up of the story that took place at the university of colorado, wowled boulder, showing. so students reacting to the president's speech, wheps it comes to student loan rates and debt. also some information in the lower parts of the story i want to share with you now. when it comes to student loan debts when, it comes to debt comparison, it says that the total outstanding student loan debt now stands at $986 billion. if you compare that to the total outstanding credit card debt, that stands at $704 billion. the average college student debt in 2009 was $24,000. in 2010 that rose to $25,250. it also shows the sources of undergraduate aid that are

available, federal loans at $70 billion, the pell grant program at $34 billion, institutional grants at $29 billion, and federal education tax credits and deductions at $13.4 billion. and there are some other lists -- categories on that less as well. again the president addressing directly the remarks of this college crowd when it comes to student loan debt. here's what he had to say. >> so, so we have to make college more affordable for our young people. that's the bottom line. like i said, not everybody's going to go to a four-year college or university. you may go to a community college, or a technical school and get into the work force and it may turn out after you have had kids and you're 35 you go back to school because you're retraining for something new, no matter what it is, no matter what field you're in, you're

going to have to engage in lifelong learning. that's the nature of the economy today and we've got to make sure that's affordable. that's good for the country. it's good for you. at this make or break moment for the middle class, we got to make sure you're not saddled with debt before you even get started in life. because i believe college isn't just one of the best investments you can make in your future, it's bun one of the best investments america can make in our future. this is important for all of us. we can't price the middle class out of college education. not at a time when most new jobs in america will require more than a high school diploma. whether it's at a four-year college or two-year program, we can't make higher education a luxury. it's an economic imperative.

every american family should be able to afford it. host: so the president addressing college crowd when this comes to the topic of student debt. we want to get your thoughts on the role of federal government when it comes to student loan debt. again the number is 202-737-0002. independents 2302-628-0205. if you want to reach to us on social media that's c-span wj, our emails at c-span.org. and a facebook page where this is posted. mike chiming in this morning that the federal government should play no role. a debt accumulated in the private sector no one made anyone take out a loan student or otherwise. i have a car loan i feel is too expensive. will the government handle that bill? how about my credit cards? i don't feel like paying them off, either? can i get some fellow american tax dollars to help pay my bill? how about a little personal responsibility? that's one of the comments weighing in this morning. if you want to do so the phone

lines are open. this is first up little river south carolina. mark, on our republican line, go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. let me see if i have this correct. the democrats took over the student loans from the private bank, the democrats made the percentage rate. they made the percentage rate go up right before the elections. so it seems to me that this is all a democrat way to try to get some votes. the government should stay out of the student loans just like the email there or just like the man said. these were got on in the private sector. the government -- the democrats, not the government, the liberal democrats took it over so they could have something to whine about and something else to hold people to. the students. if you vote for a democrat, we'll keep your loan rate low.

host: the larger issue of student loan debt, then? what do you think should be done about that if the government has no role? caller: that's up to the individual. in other wordser in other words, don't get anybody to help me pay my bill from the bank when i get money from the bank. nobody helps me pay it. that's my choice to have that loan. that's not the government's choice. that's my choice to get a loan. host: florida on our independent line. you are next, good morning. caller: how are you? host: go ahead. caller: i graduated with a degree in special education. and i've got certification in the middle school curriculum. there are two critical shortness areas. unfortunately. for some reason i don't qualify for any forgiveness loans. i'm a teacher. we have been stagnant in the state of florida for five years. there's been no -- people aren't

even allowed to raise their level. i'm supposed to be supporting a family. my loan is more expensive now than it was 10 years ago when i graduated. host: how much are you standing at? caller: almost $35,000. i'll never be able -- at the amount that i make, i have to quit teaching to be able to pay that off. here's the thing. you take a look at our china, india, africa, a lot of the european blocs from russia, south america, they all invest in education. and because of that the private sector, the middle class is growing to the point where the rich are getting richer, but the middle class are still able to afford a comfortable life. how about people like me? i don't want to be a multimillionaire. i want to be dang good at my job. and i'm trying to educate the next generation.

and i can't put food on the table. host: this is off of twitter, lowering the debt to students does nothing once they enter the job market and become unemployed, but it's a start. california. republican line. caller: hello? host: you're on. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to comment on the student loan because most people that say student loan, it damage the budget as far as -- the president, the governor, and the council men, woman, into deficit. host: what should be done about it? .

fits with the larger contrast, the campaign is drawing with mitt romney and the republicans. more focused on concerns of the middle class while they want to gut popular programs in order to extend tax cuts for the rich. mitt romney spoke about the issue of student loans. and in this clip we have them talking about his desire to extend temporary relief on interest rates on student loans. >> there's one thing i want to mention. i just -- by the way, there's one thing i want to mention that i forgot to mention at the very beginning and that was -- particularly with a number of college graduates that can't find work well beneath their skill level -- the low interest

rates on student loans. there's some concern that will expire halfway through the year. i support extending the temporary relief on interest rates for students as a result of -- as a result of all the student loans, obviously, in part because of the extraordinarily poor conditions in the job market. host: and that is governor romney in pennsylvania. contributing this morning to the topic of the role of the federal saying -- it costs way too much money to go to school in this country.

host: staten island, new york, on the topic of student loans. caller: this is a gimmick for the election time, this interest loan payment. the thing is, the colleges are so expensive, ok, and what is kids go, pay all kind of money, and they learn nothing. when you are professionals, for so many hours, they teach the kids only how to be a socialistic country. they have to teach the kids everything. for history from this country to today. host: so what do you think about -- so what should be done about student debt, then? caller: yes, they can -- if they start raising the price

for the professors and the schools get so much money -- i know my granddaughter goes to college and it's $50,000 a year and she doesn't -- she goes home and tells me the professor says to get this book. why that book? can you get a -- [inaudible] i mean, this is all a mess around. host: huntington, maryland. ed on our republican line. hi. caller: hello, good morning. host: you're on, sir. caller: the student a lot question. i have a stafford loan. to me it shouldn't be surprising that student loan debt is exceeding credit card debt. the first thing is it's low debt and it's tax deductible. we bought our house in 2005. i mean, in terms of what the government is doing by taking the tax incentives and the interest rates of what they are, it's plenty.

it doesn't help -- i guess it would be nice if the market were different, but in this case the costs are increasing so much because there's so much demand for it. what does the economy do? what do we expect out of a market economy? to me they try to get more involved it will probably get more expensive. at this rate the credit card debt is more important. it shouldn't surprise anyone. host: what's the difference between a stafford loan and other loans? caller: back when i was school -- this was 1995-2000 time frame. the stafford loans can be subsidized or unsubsidized. the subsidized loans were guaranteed by the government versus guaranteed by a bank. the presumption was guaranteed by government it would be a lower interest rate than what a private bank would have. i don't know if that were actually true. because it's what i have, it's all i can go with. host: what's your interest rate? caller: it is -- i want to say

6 3/4% if i remember correctly. host: how does that compare to other types of loans that students get, interest-wise? host: well, my wife had a private loan and if i remember that was around 8%. it wasn't dramatic but it was something. host: and so how long have you been paying and how long do you expect to pay still? caller: i went -- i refinanced to a 20-year term, so i expect to pay for another eight years. host: and so the money that you invested in your education, do you think you got something out of it? caller: oh, without a doubt. i grew up in a fairly -- my dad was pretty much close -- >> see "washington journal" every morning at 7:00 eastern here on c-span. live now to the u.s. capitol for a tribute for a new jersey congressman donald payne who died last month after the battle with colon cancer. john boehner and nancy pelosi among those expected to speak

along with vice president joe biden.

>> ladies and gentlemen, please rise for the presentation of colors by the united states capitol police ceremonial unit.

>> ♪ o say can you see by the dawn's early light

what so proudly we held at the twilight's last gleaming whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous night -- fight o'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming and the rockets red glare the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that our flag was still there ♪ ♪ o say does that star- spanningled banner yet wave

o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave ♪

>> ladies and gentlemen, please be seated. good morning and welcome to the old hall of the house. i want to thank all of you for joining us to celebrate the life of the honorable donald m. payne, representative from the state of new jersey. with us today are members of representative payne's family as well as many colleagues and friends all gathered just steps from the chamber where he served with great distinction. just as the body -- the house is the body that is closest to the people, it is the body of people who are close nit. and the loss of one is felt by

all. this is particularly true in the case of this distinguished gentleman from new jersey. this morning we will hear of a man who grew up in humbleed circumstances and devoted himself to lifting up others. whether they lived just down the block in newark's north ward or thousands of miles away in africa. we will hear of a believer who rewrote the book of what it means to be a public servant. don payne never settled for being a sympathetic ear or a helping hand. he immersed himself in the plight of those he sought to help, glimpsed of the better future and gave it all -- through it all. we'll hear of a teacher who passed on this passion with such commitment, the great john lewis will say that don's heart

was big. through don's story we'll hear how much we're capable of and how much we have left to do. so we are again drawn to that line in luke, to whom much is given and much is expected. each of us have been part of don payne's example and we must be expected to honor it with honor and sacrifice. god bless his family and god bless for all of you for being with us today. at this time the invocation will be given by the reverend patrick conroy, the chaplain of the house of representatives. i >> let us pray. god of heaven and earth, the work of your hands has made known in your bountiful creation and in the lives of

those who faithfully live their lives in service and in your grace. today we especially remember the life and work of our departed brother, donald payne, trusting your promise of eternal and ever lasting life and love. we remember his 30 years of service in elected office. in his 12th term of congress, you called him to yourself. his voice, on behalf of the millions who suffer on the continent of africa and for so many here at home will be sorely missed. may his example give courage to those of us who continue on to similarly dedicate our lives and our energies for the service of so many in need of a

champion. comfort those who mourn, most especially low his family but also his life-long friends and the many people who remember donald as a man of stature and position who never lost sight of his call to service of others. donald's bethlehem baptist congregation of newark and his roman catholic alma mater, seton hall university, can both be proud of this faithful son who answered the call of his master to serve others and now intercedes for us all in god's presence. eternal rest grant unto him, o lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. amen.

>> our first series of tributes, we'll hear from some of donald payne's colleagues in the house starting with the delegate, donna christensen, from the virgin islands. she'll be followed by representative cleaver, representative woolsey and representative chris smith, the dean of the new jersey delegation. >> good morning. it's hard getting used to donald payne not being around. we may never get used to it and i hope we don't. no more, hey, girl, where you been? or hey, girl, what you been up to? is what donald would asks. it's what donald the teacher taught us through his life and service. teaching was obviously his first love and he never left it even when he came to washington. from his work to close

education gaps on the committee on education and the work force, to the many young people from all over our country and the world that he mentored in and outside of his office, on street corners or in classrooms. to his commitment to the interns and fellows, training the next generation of leaders to understand that this was its important core mission. as much as he was involved in the life of africa and struggles in its victories, trusted counsel to rebels as much as the president, his efforts on behalf of caribbean development and peace in ireland, he was still never far from his district to which he also gave his all and where he was so much loved. his commitment to global health was held in newark. i would always join the new jersey and new york folks and was always wonderful to see donald in his element and to be part of helping him bring health care information and services to the thousands who

came. he believed in and respected this institution and its rules and traditions and taught all of us who served with him to do the same. or else. and he was a loyal and loving friend who was always there when you called and even when you didn't but he didn't mind ripping into you to always keep you on the straight and narrow. he was privileged as well as burdened but gladly so to be one of the few that donald told of his illness. but he did so well that we even i were allowed into thinking that he would beat that illness and he did for a long time. through ups and downs, therapies and adverse reactions, he kept going like an energizer bunny here. here, at home, at the foundation, across this country and even abroad. i just don't know how he did it. so what did donald payne, congressman donald payne teach us? that you can -- that you can and have an obligation to do it

all, that we must serve all of humanity even beyond the best of our ability and capacity and we must do so with courage and with humanity and with determination, quiet when possible, but also to go newark, as our chair terms it, when the situation demands. to never let anyone or anything stand in the way of living life to the fullest and giving your all until you have nothing more to give. donald payne gave all to his -- all to his family who will always be in our thoughts and prayers. his friends, his colleagues, his country, the continent of africa, the caribbean and the world, and so he will always be with us in that special part of himself that he shared with each of us so selflessly. and so we can each say as we gather here today for this memorial, thank you, donald payne, my colleague, my teacher and my friend. [applause]

>> it falls to me as chair of the congressional black caucus to speak a few words about our friend and colleague, donald payne. he was indull gent with his family -- indulgent with his family, intolerant toward injustice, invisible during credit taking time, incorruptable in a city of temptation and indistinguishable as a human spirit who is much loved. and now i'm compelled to utter something that is perhaps counterintuitive. washington, d.c., is a city of heros. yes, i challenge the late night comedians and the midday

commentators. washington, d.c., is a city of heros. this is the city of washington, lincoln, jefferson, roosevelt, roosevelt, kennedy, reagan. this is the city where leaders have gathered since 1790 to create the most democratic republic in the history of the planet. this is the city that attracted courageous leaders who slammed slavery into the junk pile of days gone by. the leaders of washington suffered from and eventually stabilized the scariest economic downturn in world history, 1929. it was from this city that the political will was harvested to win not one but two world wars. it was in this city where civil rights leaders in the league that gym crow laws were liquid

ated-- jim crow laws were liquidated. this is a city wherein 1983 ronald reagan and tip o'neill came together and added two decades to the solvency of social security. the forceful but civil words of donald payne spoke in the hallowed halls of congress were short to speak but their echos are endless. heros in washington, d.c., are made by the men and women who, win or lose, and at no small risk to themselves, place their name on ballots for the place or a place in the people's house. donald payne was a hero. he defeated a hero to get here and once here he remained true to his ideals and beliefs. donald payne was a hero because

he never landed on the evening news because of some caustic comment. he became a hero because in a town filled with hot air he taught us to say nothing often. he is a hero because he won more washington battles with his ears than his mouth. he is a hero because his life is measured not by its duration but by its donation. i'm a united methodist and john wesley, who laid the foundation to what we call today methodistism said, our people die well. donald payne is a hero because he died well. blessed are the dead which die in the lord. they rest from their labor and

their words do follow them. let me conclude by just telling you that i was really impressed when i saw the funeral of the former soviet leader. his widow, without the knowledge of the leaders of the party or the k.g.b., stood by his casket after all were seated and just before they pulled the lid down she did the unthinkable in the soviet union. she put her hand over in the casket on her husband's chest, she made the sign of the cross. in the citadel of the war on religion she made the sign of the cross on her husband's chest. so i know that we're not supposed to do religious stuff

in congress, but taking a cue from her, donald, there's no need to go to newark any more. you're in the right place now. [applause] >> i am truly honored to be here today to pay tribute to a man i loved and respected, a friend for life and a mentor. to his family, i say we say thank you for sharing your father, your father-in-law, your dad, your brother, your grandpa and your great grandpa. you shared him with us and with

the world. he was a busy lidge slator in d.c., in his district and around the world, but nobody meant more to donald payne than his family. he was so proud of all of you. some have said that donald payne was greeted in heaven by martin luther king jr., but i believe he was greeted by his sweet mother and his beautiful wife, two wife who left him far too early in his life. now i believe donald payne is in a better place. when i came to congress i couldn't have asked for a better mentor. a public school teacher, someone kind and smart. we served on committees together where i benefited from his wisdom and experience because he was a man who knew

what public service is. he described himself as a mild-mannered man, but we know he was also tenacious and dedicated. no one, and i mean no one, worked harder to bring peace and democracy around the world. he knew, however, that he cannot have been successful without the great support he got from his staff and his family. and he knew his staff was the best. nor could he have achieved the reputation of a true statesman and humanitarian without the constant energizing bunny drive and determination that stayed with him through the diagnosis of his illness and until the very end. nobody has fought harder with an iron will and physical strength not to give in because he had -- he believed so much

more to do. in his absence it's up to us to do it for him, to follow his lead, to continue the work that mattered so much to him. that is our promise to you, donald, because we love you, we miss you and we thank you for making this world a better place just by being in it. thank you. [applause] >> in the ensues weeks since don payne's untimely passing, i, along who knew and -- him we want to hear his voice to help those trapped in poverty or suffering from devastating disease. donald payne was an extraordinary man who dedicated his entire life to public

service, a man who made a significant difference in the world in his constituency in new jersey. all, many people that he touched know and remember his legacy with great, great treasure -- as a treasurer. don payne worked across party lines to combat the hiv-aids pandemic and to mitigate the loss of life and morbidity and tuberculosis on the continent of africa. he worked tirelessly to end the genocide in both south sudan and darfur. i know firsthand how much he truly cared and how hard he worked for peace and reconciliation in war-ravaged nations. i served as ranking member of the africa subcommittee when he chaired it and more recently until his passing he served as mine. in our subcommittee he never shied away from asking the tough questions but always did

so in a way that demonstrate the his earnest desire to find durable solutions to vastly insurmountable problems. he was a joy to work with. at his funeral, dozens of family members, friends and political leaders extoled don payne's innate goodness and accomplishments. the outpouring was in a word, overwhelming. president clinton was there and talked about donald payne as a peacemaker and said better to reconcile than to resent. governor chris christie said, as we celebrate his life today and as we say goodbye, we thank him for his gentle grace. his niece, lauren, said, i can go to any part of the world and he will be known there. i think it's wonderful, just amazing, and his son, don jr., reminded everyone, and i quote, just think of all the things he

did for us without ever asking for anything back. donald payne's ability to care and to do for others while expecting nothing whatsoever in return is indeed rare and it's a precious virtue. his example of life-long selfless generosity inspires us all to be doers of good deeds without any thought of recognition or reward. the house has lost a distinguished friend and a distinguished colleague, the gentleman from new jersey. on behalf of our delegation, i say to the family, we deeply miss him. on behalf of ileana ross late in an and john berman and the ranking member of the foreign affairs committee, we deeply miss him. on behalf of the entire congress, he is missed. [applause]

>> for our musical selection, we're fortunate to have with us the soloist anthony harington. he will be performing "the wind beneath my wings." >> ♪ it must have been cold there in my shadow to never have sunlight on your face you were content to let me shine

that's your way you always walked a step behind ♪ ♪ now i was the one with all the glory and you were the one with all the strength a beautiful face without a name for so long i never watched you complain ♪ ♪ did you ever know that you're my hero?

you're everything i'd like to be i could fly higher than an eagle you are the wind beneath my ings ♪ ♪ it might have appeared to go unnoticed but i've got it all right here in my heart i wanted to know i know the

truth yes i know it i would be nothing without you ♪ ♪ did you ever know that you're my hero? you're everything i'd like to be i could fly higher than an eagle you are the wind beneath my wings ♪ ♪ did you ever know that you're my hero?

you're everything i'd like to be i could fly higher than an eagle you are the wind beneath my wings you are the wind beneath my wings you are the wind beneath my wings ♪ congressman payne, today the world salutes you.

[applause] >> members of representative payne's family will share some of their reflections starting with their son, councilmember don payne, jack payne and william payne. >> thank you and good morning. to the assembled guests, the vice president and speaker, senator lautenberg, ms. pelosi,

mr. smith, ms. woolsey, mr. cleaver, mrs. christensen, there is joy and pain today. the joy is in the assembleed number of people in this hall to pay their respect to my father for his work around the world. the pain is that he is not here for us to tell him how much we appreciated him. there's been just an overwhelming month or so. at his passing, i was in a very good place and reflecting on what he had done for me and my

family over the course of my life. but as time has gone on and i've had time to stop and think, it's become very hard not to be emotional anytime i think of even calling his name. whether it be congressman donald payne, daddy, whatever. it has been a very emotional time. but as it was stated and i stated, he never asked for anything. he did things. he told me and he referred to me -- i have a family nickname. he would say, i do the things i do because i can. people need help all around the world. and wherever there is injustice , he felt it was important to step in. yes, africa was his passion,

but people find situations where their civil and human rights were being violated became his fight. and the one thing i want to leave you with is that he never asked for anything but he would really, really appreciate what you've done here to honor his memory today. thank you very much. [applause] >> john, chapter 14, versus 1: 3. you believe in god. you believe -- in our father's house, -- i go to prepare a place for you and if i go to

the prepared place for you i will come again and receive yourself. you may be awesome. so many of you here today, you know my grandfather as congressman donald payne. something you -- some knew him as mr. payne. some new -- knew him as don or donald. on behalf of yvonne and myself, pepaw, we love and miss you and may you rest in peace. [applause] >> good afternoon. he never lost a common touch. i don't say that just to be poetic. i say that because it's true.

i was blessed to be with him when he went to bahrain. when we went to the arab spring. i traveled with him when we went on dusty roads in the congo and sat with people in their huts and talked about their health care. i was with him as he touched the children in the refugee camps where we visited where his heart worked. my brother cared about the world. there are those who knew we were very close. there's a story about the brothers. some you may know it. twins who were very, very close to each other. yet they were separate. they felt the feeling of the other one no matter where they were. there was a nice guy and then there's the other one. you can guess who was the other one. [laughter] he was -- he was great.

he gave his all. as a matter of fact, he was concerned about his fellow. in fact, when he went to egypt and he checked on secretary lahood's son, my brother was sick. he was ill. before he went i said, donald, you're not well. he said, when i get there i'll rest. i have to go. he went. he passed on march 6 which was the same day that my father passed and the same age -- same age that he passed. so i guess he passed on, there is a great union, no question about it. great union up there where my brother and my father and mother and his wife and all those are together. but he wrote me a letter not too long ago talking about greatness. you don't recognize greatness when you're walking with it. recognize that he was a great

man. and it's too difficult sometimes when you're so close to it but donald was a great man. i think everyone would agree with that. his passing hurts and i think time heals but time has not yet come. it still hurts. thank you. [applause] >> our next set of tributes, delivered by the democratic leader in the u.s. house, ms. nancy pelosi, and the senior senator from the state of new jersey, senator lautenberg. >> thank you for arranging for this beautiful ceremony today in honor of donald payne. thank you so much for bringing us together in a beautiful way. for donled's family, we hope

it's -- donald's family, we hope it's comforting for you to know that we are praying for you and donald is being honored in so many ways. he was in life and now with his passing. the fact was the president of the united states, bill clinton, and members of president obama's cabinet were present with their assistant leader, mr. clyburn, at his funeral, the fact that we are under the dome of the capitol of the united states and the vice president of the united states is here to sing the praises of donald payne, as well as the outpouring from his colleagues in the house and in the senate, i hope that is a comfort to you. i just want to share with you a couple other tributes that may not be well-known to many of you here. on march 19 when we celebrated st. patrick's day, because it was on saturday and we observed it on monday, there was a big

dinner. huge dinner. hundreds of people turned out. the prime minister of the taoiseach of ireland was there. and when the head of our -- representative richie neal spoke, as well as peter king, richie devoted his entire comments to donald payne. and this big irish festival, there was a huge -- as big as the wall picture of donald payne and the crowd cheered wildly as both mr. king and especially richie spoke about what he did to help the people of northern ireland. wasn't it a beautiful tribute? it was beautiful. [applause] that was a couple of weeks, as you know, after his passing. i want to tell you about one incident that happened a few years ago. we were on a delegation that donald help arrange and lead to darfur and to africa.

it was very emotional for all of us, but as with anything, you were better prepared when you went, better received when you got there and better able to help when you left, whether it was the issue of poverty, the eradication of poverty, disease, protecting human rights, you name it. this trip we were going to darfur and other -- sudan and other countries in africa, and donald helped arrange everything but when we are going to khartoum he said, i'm not going. remember this. i'm not going. i said why? you're our leader. they're not going to tell you the truth. i already know that. i'm not going to give them that opportunity. but you have to find out for yourself. which we did. we met on that trip. we visited -- it wasn't just about visiting heads of states and parliamentarians. it was about visiting people in

hiv-aids clinics to see the care they were receiving. it's about visiting women working. it was about learning about the country. i want to tell but this one incident because i am reminded of it today when so many people are singing praises of donald payne and i'm referencesing people singing praises of donald payne who aren't even here today. we were in liberia. mr. clyburn, you remember this very well. we were in liberia and there was a big celebration of dedicating a library to congressman donald payne for his leadership. and we were there and i'm telling you, it was very hot. they gave us tashikis to wear so it was very hot. the leadership of the world turned out. that was after the president honored donald and the rest of us at an event. this is always on donald. anyway, we go to this library

dedication at the a.m.e. college in monrovia. boiling hot. everyone came out to honor donald. every person that spoke, you'll recognize this, every person that spoke said it was an honor to be on the program to be with the person before. there was 19, 20 speakers. i guess we were halfway through and one gentleman, distinguish gentleman gets up and he says, to all of the speakers who spoke before me and who will come next, honors granted and it brought out the biggest smile on donald payne's face. a picture you see on the program. the twinkling eyes, biggest smile, which is obviously a family treat. they wanted to outdo each other in praising him but

acknowledging everyone there too. he was so wonderful and there's so much to be said about him, it's really a personal loss to so many of us. and so when a colleague passes away, it sadens the loss in that this is very, very personal with many members. and i just want to recall since mr. cleburne introduced an idea that we can speak religiously here today of a prayer that is posted on the wall by a presbyterian african bishop in africa and i think it applies to donald very well. and the prayer says, when at long last i will happily go to meet my maker. he will say to me, show me your wounds. and if i have no wounds i will say to him, i have no wounds.

and he will say to me, was there nothing worth fighting for? that was donald. he fought for poor people. he fought for people all over the world and mentioned -- we mentioned africa. that's well-known. and we mentioned northern ireland. all over the world. this whole hemisphere. he took -- this is hard to make that fight. he was challenging the status quo. especially to end violence and promote peace. that's why it was my honor to name him to be our representative to the united nations general assembly. for donald it was two times. because his contribution was so valuable. we say from time to time but it's never truer than today god truly placed america with the life, leadership and service of our precious donald payne. thank you.

[applause] >> thank you, everybody, for joining together in extended example of hand holding, a time when there's so much turbulence here in washington and across our country. the equilibrium that donald payne always had is yet another fitting memory of his good will, his good nature and his honesty. and it's an honor for me to represent the senate in paying tribute to our friend, donald payne. don payne was a humble man of conscious, conviction. and i was always struck by donald's spoken soft demeanor

and i think many here will agree, this made him a rarity in politics. don payne didn't need to raise his voice. his ideals were powerful enough. for more than two decades, congressman payne served new jersey in congress with distinction. but his leadership impacted lives far beyond new jersey's borders. donald was an expert on foreign relations. he led efforts to restore democracy and human rights in countries from northern ireland to sudan. don payne worked around the globe to end familiaron and disease and genocide -- famine and disease and genocide. at home he was a trail blazer.

we had our principal new jersey offices in newark and i would see almost the ribbons that people will hold in their hands when they were able to shake hands with don payne. there was love and affection and respect. in 1988, don, during his first campaign for the house, he told a reporter, and i quote, i want to be a role model for the kids i talk to on the street corners. i want to see -- i want them to see there are no barriers to achievement. and without doubt donald payne achieved his goal. he inspired young people, and if you look at his proud family members who are here today, many of whom followed him in his career of public service

and it's a wonderful example for all of you to follow. we're very proud of you, young man, for standing up here and talking about your grandfather. we miss donald payne, congressman donald payne, and we mourn his absence from our lives. he's gone but his legacy will not be forgotten. pride, gentlemanship, decency, honor and courage. thank you. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome me in welcoming the vice president of the united states, joe biden. >> mr. speaker, thank you very much. to the payne family, all of us

many have been through what you're going through and we know there's not a darn thing any of us can say. so that -- fill that sense of empty void, that hallow in your chest. as the former speaker said, i hope you take some solace from knowing that everyone else knows what you knew, everyone knows what you felt, everyone knows what your father, grandfather, your brother, etc., what he was made of. i hope that gives you some solace. and so i hope that solace is something that will bring that healing quicker. i actually -- i envy my

colleagues who spoke. i envy them because they obviously got to work with donald every day and they got to know him even better than i did. -- a man who in my experience -- and i spent a lot of time with him and talking with him during the foreign relations committee, but a guy who is probably, as the old saying goes, he's what the doctor ordered and what we need badly here in washington. it's not just -- it's not just what he did. it's just not how deeply he felt about the causes he fought for. a lot of you feel deeply. a lot of you. democrats and republicans feel the same way.

but the thing i admire most about him was i was reading a quote in this. when i was a young man i came across a book of poetry. a father wants his son to be better than he. my dad used to have an expression. you know your success when you look at your son or daughter and realize they turned out better than you. he joked about it. a lot of us know our successes because we look at our children . your dad had that privilege of being able to know. i think there's a reason for why. the quishing characteristic for me, someone who knew him well but not nearly as well as many of you, was that he had another treat that my dad felt was the

single most valuable thing beyond courage that you can possess, and that was donald comported himself with dignity, but more importantly he comported dignity with everybody else. everybody else. i remember him saying to me when i, this is since i've been vice president, i'm quoting my dad saying a job is about a lot more than a paycheck, it's about dignity, it's about respect, it's about your sense of yourself, it's about your place in the community, it's about who you are. i'll never forget donald calling me about, by the way, so mall ark he recalled hearing me say that and i went back and asked my staff to look up what i thought i remembered donald

talking about and donald's -- the ability of donald to comport himself the way he did in a pretty increasingly rough environment for both parties, donald said, i think there's a lot of dignity in being table achieve things without having to create rupture. you know, sometimes in our town , and congressman, that was an eloquent presentation you made, but sometimes in this great town, a lot of great heroes, we go through phases where we sometimes confuse dignity with weakness. we sometimes confuse dignity

with lack of resolve. the magic of donald, the magic of your brother, your father, your grandfather, was no one ever confused it with him. it was pretty remarkable. i served in the senate for 36 years, i've had the great pleasure of knowing an awful lot of great women and men, as i was pointed out after i left the senate after being elected the seventh time, only 13 people in history served longer than me, which was supposed to give me is solace, but it made me feel very bad. but the point is, very few people could pull off what don pulled off. i don't know what it is. i don't know what that thing was he had. as i said a lot of people had his passion. i know a lot of you, republican and democrats, bleed for your constituents, you've done incredible things.

he had something special. there was a place where there's a song that says, to be upright, there arises light in darkness, he is gracious, he is full of compassion and he is righteous. donald was upright. donald was a man who was always, to my experience, always gracious. whether he was talking to the conductor on amtrak or being with him in his district, as i was on several occasions when i first met you, or whether it was in godforsaken pluses in africa, where i might add, no one's mentioned, it took some courage for him to go where he went, he put his life in jeopardy on some of those

trips. it wasn't automatic. it wasn't always donald being greeted with open arms. i can think of two occasions where his aircraft was greeted with weapons fired at his aircraft. so you know, the interesting thing about donald, to be upright, as the psalmist says, there rises light in darkness. it was amazing how much light he brought to the darkest recesses of his district and of the world. you know, it's been mentioned here a number of times, and i apoll jidse for repeating it, but i think it's important, it's mentioned here that donald was always a teacher.

he was the kind of teacher a lot of us wish we had when we were in school. teacher who never lectured you, teacher that demanded a lot of you, teacher knew what you needed, was able to help you where he could but expected you to act. that was -- everything about him, there's a great phrase about being a teacher. whether it was donald going after increasing pell grants or cutting loan interest rates, all the other thing he is did in his district, there was a great expression and it was by henry adams, he said, a teacher affects eternity. he can never tell where his influnes stops.

a teach every affects eternity he can never tell with his influence stops. we can say all we know about donald, we don't know. we really don't know where his influence stops. i'll close by reaching to my -- he worked so hard, his compassion was not kept by race, color, or ethnicity. and the highest compliment any irishman can accord to anyone,

period, is to say, he was a good man. donald payne was a good man. [applause] >> mr. vice president, let me thank you for your kind remarks and all those who paid tribute today to donald payne. at this time i'd like to ask leader pelosi to join me as we present to congressman payne's family a flag that was flown over the capitol on the day of his passing, and a copy of house resolution 571, expressing the house's sincerest condolences.

>> we are honored to be joined today by the reverend dr. david jefferson sr., pastor of the metropolitan baptist church in

newark, new jersey, who will deliver the benediction. >> let us all stand. out of respect for this great man, if you would please bow your heads with me. eternal god our father, as we come to the close of this memorial service, a service to celebrate and a service to commemorate the life and the legacy of the honorable donald m. payne, we are grateful that you blessed us with such a super life as we gather in this

sacred hall today, populated by those who have shown courage and greatness for our nation. it is very befitting that we are here to celebrate this great man. one who chose power over pain, one who chose courage and dignity over fear. one who chose faith and the -- in the face of doubt, one who chose peace instead of war. one who brought knowledge where there was no knowledge, and one who brought light where there was darkness. and all of us stand today in solidarity to simply say, thank

you for blessing us with such a great life. and now in the words of that old baptist preacher, we're not sure what state he was from, his eyesight was dim, his hair was gray, but at the close of his service, he lifted his hand above the heads of his pa riggsers and he said these words mitigating circumstance hand's on the now -- my hand's on the plow, my faltering hands. and all that is before us is the desert. sometimes the handle of our plows with tears get wet, and yet, and yet, we do not believe you brought our great nation this far to leave us now, and

we welcome and we thank you for the life, the contribution, and all that this great man has done for his spirit and his life will live on in the hearts of those that he touched around his nation and throughout the world. it is in your name we humbly submit and we say thank you, amen. >> ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our memorial service. i want to thank all of you for joining us. i know don's family will be receiving gifts in the rayburn room and may god bless his soul. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

>> if you missed any of this tribute to the late new jersey congressman donald payne, you can see it in its entirety at c-span.org. the u.s. house will be back for legislative business at 1:00 p.m. eastern, about half an hour from now. members will debate the data act which deals with the way government agencies report how they spend federal moneys, including cutting funding by 20% for federal agency meetings

and conferences. also today, work on highway and mass transit programs. live coverage of the house when they return here on c-span from the associated press this afternoon, newt gingrich began taking steps to shut down his debt-laden presidential bid, he's going to endorse mitt romney. the former house speaker spoke with mr. romney and started planning an event to throw his support behind the likely nominee. this morning, he acknowledged to north carolina voters that his white house dreams were effectively over. newt gingrich expected to withdraw from the presidential race next week. this morning, the hearing into british newspaper phone tapping trial continued. rupert murdoch began the first of two days of questioning.

we'll show you as much of this as we can until the house gavels in at 1:00 p.m. eastern. on monday afternoon, i said, i recognize the issues, and the freedom that permit what is is said to be discuss and the subject of comment in whatever way is thought fit and i shall be interested in how it is covered. for my part, i shall approach the relationship between the press and politicians from a nonpartisan perspective, which i'm sure is the reason i was given this remit. when i said those words i had in mind some of the evidence that i anticipated we would

hear, including that which we did in fact hear yesterday. in light of the reaction and considerable commentary last night and this morning, it's appropriate for me to say a little more. this necessarily involves explaining something of the judicial process. i understand entirely the reason for some of the reactions to the evidence yesterday and in particular to the emails about which mr. murdoch was asked. but i am acutely aware from considerable experience that dumonts such as these cannot always be taken at face value. and can frequently bear more than one interpretation. i am absolutely not taking sides or expressing any opinion, but i am prepared to say that it is very important

to hear every side of the story before drawing conclusions. in due course, we will hear all the relevant evidence from all the relevant witnesses and when i report, i will then make the findings that are necessary for me to fulfill the terms of reference that the prime minister set for me. in the meantime, though i have seen requests for other inquiries. it seems to me the better course is to allow the hearing to proceed. when it is concluded there will doubtless be opportunities to consider whether any further investigation is considered necessary. the witness today is mr. rupert -- >> sir, the witness today is mr. rupert murdoch. >> thank you.

i'm very conscious that the material which mr. murdoch has provides us comes in difference traunches and having regard to the experience with some witnesses, i think it will be very help ffl you're moving from bundle to bundle, if somebody could help him do that. >> i swear by the almighty god that the evidence i shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> your full name, mr. murdoch. >> keith rupert murdoch. >> in front of you, i believe you'll see a witness statement. you signed and dated the 12th of april of this year with 44 exhibits, there's a declaration of truth on it.

the inquiry -- are you content that the inquiry receive yours statement? >> yes. >> mr. murdoch, i will say i am grateful for the preparation of your evidence and the material you placed before the inquirly and i wanted to inquire -- to record that. >> you are the chairman and chief executive officer of news corporation, a company incorporated in the united states. >> yes. >> with total assets of $60 billion and a total annual world revenue of $34 billion. is that right? >> approximately, yes. >> for our purpose, we can be more parochial, approximately 8% of news corps' revenues are generated in the united kingdom, 60% by news international. >>s that right. >> anyone who wants more detail can look at your statement when it is published in due course.

would it be faferse -- fair to say you have been following british politics for at least 60 years, mr. murdoch? >> yes, i suppose so. with varying intensity. >> you say that you welcome this inquiry, it follows then that rumors that you have not forgiven mr. cameron for setting it up are untrue. is that right? >> did i say that? my witness state snment >> you have said in your witness statement you welcome this inquiry. >> yes. >> i am putting to you rumors that you haven't foregiven him for setting up this inquiry, are those rumors untrue? >> untrue. >> why do you say there's a need for this inquiry, mr. murdoch? >> well, i think the need is fairly obvious, there have been some abuses shown, i would say

there are many other abuses but we can all go to that in time. the state of media in this country is of vital interest to all its citizens. i welcome the opportunity because i wanted to put some myths to bed. >> you use the term abuses. sit your perception or understanding that abuses go further than the issue of phone hacking? or are they limited to the issue of phone hacking? >> they go further. >> we'll come back to that in due course. may i ask you about your business philosophy, which you cover in your statement, can i see if we can whittle what you say down to three main points. you have an intuitive instinct for acquiring businesses you

believe will be successful. secondly, and perhaps more importantly, you have a long-term perspective, and thirdly, you have a deep flair for and understanding of the possibilities of technology. mr. murdoch, have i got that right? >> can i make very slight amendments? >> certainly. >> i would say that my -- all my interests, whether intuitive or otherwise, have been confined to the media, not just any business. long term, i think you're absolutely right. just about everything i've done in terms of major moves for the company, particularly one at the moment, is very long-term in view. and sometimes i've been right, sometimes i've been wrong, at great cost. >> can i ask you briefly about

your political philosophy? would it be fair to say that you always have been a great admirer of barreness thatcher and what she's done? >> yes, i was -- i became that after she was elected. and i remain a great admirer. >> "the sun" supported her in the 1979 election, so presumably your support for mrs. thatcher crystalized in your mind before that election, would that be right? >> well, i think all newspapers were much the same. we just had come through the most terrible winter of discontent, strikes, disruptions to the whole society, and i think we all wanted change.

>> can i put one quote to you, indeed it's from you, an interview by mr. william shorecraft in "time" magazine, 25 october, 1999, we needn't turn it up, this is you speaking, what does libertarian mean, as much freedom as possible, as little government as possible as few rules as possible. i'm not saying it should be taken to the absolute limit. is the gist of that, few rules but not no rules? >> clearly, there are necessary rules. in a working society. but they can be overdone. >> some recent tweets of yours betray a hostile approach to right wingers and toff, who were you referring to? >> that was rather low, don't take my tweets too seriously.

i think i was really saying that the extremists on both sides were piling it on me. >> and you referred to myths about you, mr. murdoch, is it your feeling that there is a lot of mythology around and about you which needs to be debunked? >> yes. >> we'll see how we get on in the course of today. can i say what the plan is? year going to focus on the political issues first and the approach will be, broadly speaking, chronological, otherwise we'll lose track of where we are. then i'll go to the issue of phone hacking, and then we'll look at some broader questions. are you concerned with that? >> yes, indeed. >> thank you. the acquisition of the "times" and "sunday times," which is a separate vignette in the case but which i do need to cover,

and your witness statement addresses you bid for those phers and five other titles at the end of 19 0, didn't you, mr. murdoch? >> yes, i thought there were three, but perhaps, i've forgotten. >> we'll talk about that, how many. at that stage, you having acquired if the the news of the world" in 1968 and "the sun" in 1969, you had slightly other 0% of the u.k. newspaper market. is that correct? >> "the sun" must have been a more sudden success than i thought for it to have reached 30% in 10 years but i'll take your figure. >> ok. now the deadline for the purchase to take place was march, 1981, and by way of

background, the secretary of state for trade and industry, mr. john bitton, was obliged by statute to refer the case to the monopolies and mergers commission unless in his opinion each title was not economic as a going concern and we case was one of urgency. that's the background on the law. i'd like you please to -- >> we will put in exhibits to prove he said that, indeed that thompsons -- >> the fair trade says that. it's whether the times and the sunday times were not economic as going concerns which may be an issues. can we look at the dumonts evidencing a lunch at checkers with barreness thatcher on 4 january, 1981, marked kra-14,

which may be in that bundle. yowl see that ms. thatcher's press secretary noted on 5th of january, 1981, addressed to the prime minister, attached in the record of the salient points of your lumple yesterday with rupert murdoch. in line with your wish the attached has not gone outside number 10 and is, of course, to be treated commercial in confidence. this is a dumont which didn't enter the public domain until march of this year, mr. murdoch. do you understand that? >> yes. >> now, according to the history "the times," the murdoch years, harper collins, page 28 you previously had no recollection whatsoever of this lunch, is that right? >> that's correct.

i still don't, to be honest. but i totally accept mr. eems' minutes. detailed minutes. which sound to me to be correct. i think i asked mrs. thatcher, can i see her, and she said, why done you come to lunch on sunday. >> this is our page 01267, according to the notice, he was quite -- it was quite an infamous occasion, there were a number of people there, obviously the prime minister, mr. thatcher, mr. hingham and you and the meeting was at your request. do you see that? >> yes. >> you don't mind if i tease you about this, when you told the select committee on 19th of july last year that you wish

politicians would leave you alone, you weren't, of course, referring to this meeting? now, what we see -- >> i think this meeting was to inform the chief executive of the company of the likelihood of a change of ownership of a great, iconic asset. i thought it was quite appropriate. >> of course, mrs. thatcher knew that was probable, or one outcome. there seems to be two purposes behind it, one to brief mrs. thatcher, to give her your thoughts about the what is described here as the embryonic and developing reagan administration, do you see that in paragraph 2?

>> yes, i think it shows that, at least the conversation taken up by gossip and american politics. >> yes. and the three of you said president-elect reagan, barreness thatcher, and you, were all of course on the same page politically, weren't you? >> i guess that's fair. this was just before his inauguration. >> indeed, it was. >> was it part of the purpose of this meeting to talk almost psychologically to demonstrate to mrs. thatcher how very much you were, quote, one of us, one of us is barrenest thatcher's

-- bay roness thatcher's -- baroness thatcher's term. is that your purpose? >> no. >> you requested a face-to-face meeting, right? >> yes. >> and as mr. hingham -- >> the purpose was not to tell her about president reagan. >> she knew all of this any i. paragraph four, the main purpose of mr. murdoch's visit was to brief the prime minister on his bid, that's your bid, for times newspapers and then you explained to her what your bid amounted to in financial terms and then you treated her to some speculations about who else had bid, is that fair? >> yes, that was poor speculation. i don't think thompson told me

about anyone. some people announce bids, but cantor maxwell was always bidding for things. >> why was it important that mrs. thatcher understand the nature and quality of your bid? >> as i said, this is the movement of a great institution. >> there would be great problems with the unions. understanding the costs and risks. >> were you thinking to demonstrate to her that you

were the right man to acquire these great papers because you had the calls and charisma to take the papers forward and equally importantly and you had the will to crush the unions. >> i did not have the will to crush the unions. i might have had the desire. that took several years. >> if we substitute desire for will are we in agreement? >> i suppose, yes. we could get into more questions. >> you, plained to mrs. thatcher that some 50 million of news group's resources could

be at risk and that such an amount could, quote, finish us. do you remember saying that? >> i don't remember saying that but i probably did. it was a gross underestimate. >> and you talked about the financial position at the times but you didn't mention the financial position of the "sunday times." >> i said times newspapers. >> so you meant both. >> was it your view that the "sunday times" was not economic as a going concern? >> i didn't know. i thought that he certain -- it certainly had a great position on sunday but its economics and its staff and everything were all tied together with "times."

>> warburg advised, as you knew, 1982 and onward, the paper would make a profit you knew that, didn't you? >> i didn't see that. >> did it contribute a profit to the times newspapers? yes. >> finally on this note, paragraph 12, page 01360, the prime minister thanked mr. murdoch for keeping her posted on his operations. she did more than wish him well in his bid, noting the need for much improved arrangements in fleet street affecting manning and the introduction of new technology. so you wished to point out no express favors were offered to

you by mrs. thatcher, is that right? >> and none asked. i think if i'd asked for anything, they would have recorded that. >> but you wouldn't have been so undeft and cathanded to have asked directly? >> i hope not. i've never asked a prime minister for anything. >> you seek to demonstrate to her that you were precisely on the same page politically as her, that you were one of us. and the understanding was that the extent to which she might help, she would. >> i didn't need any help from her and didn't ask for any. >> were you concerned you might

not acquire the company? >> yes. >> that could have been a referral to the monopolies commission. >> that didn't worry me in the least as my statement shows and the backup material, i hope will be put on the web along with this. >> yes, it all will, mr. murdoch. but you thanked p mrs. thatcher for her lumpling on the 15th of january. >> yes, i was a little slow in writing to thank her. >> and then another dumont shows that analysis with you were the favorite. pause of the quality of the manager and your vigor and various other factors, that's in this bundle. >> i've seen that letter, yes. >> and the next stage if i can deal with it shortly, undertakings were offered by you, could you look at those,

krh manufacture -- krm-6. >> yes. >> do you have thatmark particular page 01467, which is the fourth undertaking, headed maintenance of editorial independence, do you have that? >> yes. >> you wanted to preserve the separate identities of the times and the "sunday times" and maintain the independence of their editors in the appointment and control of their staff over the critical policy of the separate newspapers and then in all respects to maintain the title as editorially independent newspapers. do you accept, mr. murdoch, that the very fact --

>> if i may, to continue lord thompson's arrangement which exactly he made when he put the two together. i did undertake to expand a number of independent directors from four to six. >> yes, you did. does the var fact that undertaking offered itself is an indication of the power that? >> let's face it, they ended up sending a newspaper broke,s the responsibility of the proprietor to step in for the sake of the journalists and for the sake of everybody and particularly his responsibility to his many thousands of shells

that didn't apply to thompson. >> the next stage is on the 26th of january, thompson wrote to the secretary of state, pointing this out, i'll read it out, it is page 01589, we cannot, however, emphasize too strongly that if there is a reference to the commission, monopolies of the commission of the news international proposal that proposal lapses because its conditions cannot be met. was that your understanding? >> that they wrote that? >> yes. >> yes. >> so if there were a reference , you would then allow the bid to proceed, you would have to renegotiate the trust. was that the position? >> i saw him and told him i

didn't mind in the least any reference, if it went on the right, if the paper bled more money, i reserved the right to renegotiate the price. >> yes. that's a fair summary. but it's right that the relevant -- >> the cabinet minutes which we have submitted show that. >> yes, we're taking this in sames, mr. murdoch. we're going to cover this the minutes of the meeting with secretary of state on 26th of january is on tab 66 of this bundle. sorry, it's been placed in front of you in a separate file. this is an important dumont. i don't think it's yet on the system so it can't be displayed. you were accompanied by your australian chief counsel, i

think. >> at the time, i think, chairman of the company, and lifelong friend. >> you told mr. bitten, and i'm sure this is a point you wish to bring out, paragraph two, mr. murdoch said the report that his bid would lapse was totally misleading he claimed that when he said that, he was merely responding to the thompson deadline and still assumed it would be difficult for thompsons to extend associations, he was prepared to cooperate. at the same time he did point out a reference would create problems for hymn, it would delay his own negotiation with the unions, and for thompsons, that the uncertainty would cause loss of revenue, so you

were pointing out the commercial disadvantages of such a reference. would you agree? zf if that note is right, then you're correct. yes. >> the secretary of state's position at this meeting was that he was minded to refer to the m.m.c. really for political reasons, if i can be foregiven for putting it in those terms. he felt that such an act would defuse any criticism of the bid. did he communicate that to you? >> i don't remember. >> you assured him you would not withdraw the bid if thompsons agreed to extend their deadline, that was on the hypothesis of a referral to the m.m.c. >> that is correct. >> mr. bigens position at that stable, we don't know what time

of the day it was on the 26th of january was that he was minded to concur, and we can't know what conversation he had with mrs. thatcher between that point in time and the cabinet meeting which took place later that afternoon, we're now back to k.r.m. 16 of which i think is tab 17 of the first file. >> yes. >> some of the handwriting is quite small. i'll do my best to paraphrase this. the first page is 01367. the advice from the attorney general was under the fair trading act it must be a reference, the exception

applied, namely, each paper was not a going concern and the matter was urgent. where the typeface gets smaller, the discussion act on the basis of the times was not economic as a going concern. in relation to the sunday times that it occurred. then there's a summary, he summarized the effect of what he'd seen earlier that day. we can see why it was decided -- >> excuse me, with this discussion -- >> yes, he's accurately summarized here which was the discussion we had here, and i'm

sure he's saying in good faith both conditions were met. if you look at the right hand side, it was suggested that the secretary of state would refer to the m.m.c. it was unlikely that the thompson organization would, in practice, refuse to extend their tchine in the circumstances that seemed however little advantage to be gained from a reference and considerable risk and cost making it. the thompson organization took the view that no suitable purchaser has made a bid. this would enable great thorget to be -- authority to be put behind the paper and the editorial freedom mr. murdoch had already given. their concern on this count should be met if the secretary of state is able to assure them he's able to give concern without the reference, he could