their segregated obligations to their customers. the data that was provided to us from mf global showed that there were in compliance up until the very last few few days. >> when you say you had personnel on the ground, was that an increase in personnel on the ground? did you detect that there might be something wrong? >> we had people at the offices in chicago and new york. that is not typical. >> when did that occur? >> of the week prior. >> the week prior. when over 99% of mf global's accounts were commodity accounts, did cftc had an opportunity to prevent others from taking over the bankruptcy? why was mf global's holding, the

holding company, why was it allowed to file chapter 11? both of those instances seem to have preferred the general creditors over the segregated account holders. did cftc have a role in altering the decisions that were made that allowed those two things to happen, the involvement, to the detriment of the segregated account holders, and the holding company-wide bankruptcy filing? both of those were to the detriment of the segregated account holders. did the cftc had a role to play in those decisions? >> i was not privy to the conversations that led up to mf global being placed in a bankruptcy proceeding. it is my understanding that when that is done, they have the ability to place an entity that

they believe is in financial distress or is approaching financial distress, they have the ability to refer them. we do not have that same authority if an entity is a stand-alone entity forces a broker-dealer. it is my understanding that even though the entity was a joint broker-dealer fcm, all of the commission regulations, a bankruptcy, rules and regulations, those all apply, it just as they would if it were just a stand alone fcm and those were not -- >> is what you are telling me is that my suggestion that those segregated account holders were harmed by that decision is not

true? >> my understanding is that it is not true. >> did that discussion occur prior to the filing of bankruptcy? was cftc engaged? >> the commission was informed that mf global was going to be placed into liquidation. >> who is handling the decisions in regards to enhanced supervision. who was handling those decisions prior to the bankruptcy? >> up until november 3, the chairman was directing. >> since you have told me you do not know what his conflict of interest was that caused him to recuse himself five days after the bankruptcy, you do not have an opinion as to whether that

same conflict of interest would have accrued prior to the filing of bankruptcy? do you know if something happened between the filing and the five days later that created a conflict of interest? is it the same conflict of interest that was there prior and subsequent to bankruptcy? >> i do not know. >> thank you. >> i apologize for missing part of your testimony. i have a conflict, we have a marked up in the appropriations committee. you should not be absent from that. i hope some of these questions have not been asked. if they have, i was not here. i will first go to you, commissioner sommers. during the week leading up to the bankruptcy, during the week leading up to the bankruptcy of

mf global, did the chairman ever indicate to you that he was concerned about customer assets at mf global? >> my recollection is that the chairman had concerns regarding the financial condition of the company. that is why staff -- >> how many times do you recall, or do you have a record, did the chairman brief you and other commissioners at the cftc meetings on the management of the crisis? that had to be a concern for the cftc. this was not business as usual. >> over the weekend prior to the filing of the bankruptcy, i recall receiving two e-mails from the chairman.

we held a closed meeting. >> what was the substance of those e-mails? >> informing us in t. there was a problem? >> -- informing us -- >> there was a problem? >> no. that there was a potential sale to another financial institution. >> did he indicate great concern at that time? >> not at that time, no. >> mr. duffy, i will direct this question to you and also to commissioner sommers, what authority does the chicago -- cme have to protect customer segregated accounts in an emergency situation? commissioner sommers, following

up on that question, what authority does the cftc to protect customer segregated accounts at a futures commission merchant during an emergency situation? mr. duffy, you first. >> we make sure they are in compliance. >> what did you say? there should be segregated -- >> we get segregated reports. we get them on a daily basis since they were acquired. it was voluntary. we were getting these reports on a daily basis. you had to time them out over several days. these are some of the things we do to make sure they are in compliance. if they go out of compliance, it is in violation of our rules. >> were some of those reports misleading?

with a more than that or what? >> they were a little more than that. we were told on one report that they had two hundred million dollars in excess after they had announced that the money was missing on sunday. >> was that truth? >> they then give us the right to report the following monday. -- they then gave us the right reported the following monday. >> that is misleading at you. the question to you. >> although we have never had the situation in the past, if we were ever in a situation where we believed a company was in a situation where they could not meet their obligations, the commission could seek legal action to of a receiver

appointed. >> i will direct is some question to both of you, in the area of protection osama a of customer segregated account -- protection of customer segregated accounts, both of your organizations had staff- owned sites the weekend before the firm posted bankruptcy filing. what steps did your agency take, i will start with you, commissioner sommers, take to protect customer assets prior to learning that assets were missing? what date and time did staff in your agency first learned there was a possible or probable shortfall in the customer segregated accounts? after you learned of the missing customer assets, what specific steps dear agencies take to ensure that customer funds --

steps did your agencies take to ensure that customer funds were not transferred over the weekend. commissioner sommers, you first. >> the first question, with regards to what our staff was doing, although the commission received daily segregation reports, those reports only list the amount of money that the f c o's to customers. we were trying to get supporting documentation from mf global to be able to make sure they had that money in the bank. >> you had that conversation. you testified to it earlier. either personally or some communication by e-mail from the chairman. there was more than a little concerned at your office regarding mf global.

is that right? think everything was o.k. after you talked -- you read the e-mails of the chairman, did you? >> in the beginning, the reason he sent staff to the offices was so that we could receive is supporting documentation to make sure to do the tieback of this a good bit accounts. >> there was -- of the segregated accounts. >> there was concern about mf global, where the money was coming from. is that correct? what that is true. the documentation and data they provided showed us they were in compliance. >> that is not true. >> it was not true. >> did you have suspicions? >> i did not believe they had suspicions they were not in compliance. over the weekend, the staff was

in the process of filing all of the documents we would need to file and ordered to make a transfer possible. customers from mf global, if there was a financial institution that would purchase the fcm, that those customer accounts could be transferred with our approval. we were drafting those documents in order to make that transfer of customer positions possible. we were not informed, the commission was not informed until monday morning of october 31 that there was a shortfall in customer segregation. >> were you ever concerned there might be something wrong at mf global? obviously, something had come up on your radar. >> absolutely. we were concerned. i do not believe i ever thought that one of the concerns should be that there would be a

shortfall in customer segregation. >> mr. duffy, do you have any comments? >> i echo commissioner sommers. we had people validating reports against bank records and everything else. we got into saturday, we still have people on the ground. we were told there was an accounting error. it was of $900 million. everybody was trying -- >> an accounting error of $900 million. >> i found that staggering myself. some people felt it was too big. others thought it was too big and it could not be an accounting error. i was in the latter camp. >> did that send a lot of anxiety through your organization? >> it sent a lot of anxiety. people felt confident there was no way it was not an accounting error.

>> were the people wrong? >> they were dead wrong. >> dead wrong? >> dead wrong. >> mr. giddens, you of the mf global trust the. as trustee, what is your portfolio? what are you supposed to do as a crusttrustee? >> i am appointed the equivalent of a chapter 7 liquidating trust. i have the same powers as a chapter 7 trustee for the rfcfc. my job is to marshal the assets of the broker-dealer a state and to pay them out as required by law. there is property which is not

part of the estate which belongs to customers. the commodity customer funds and also the security customer funds. there are detailed provisions from cftc which governs how you calculate those claims and pay them out. the big distinction and a difference in the reason that as mr. cook has pointed out, some of the customers have been paid in full, is the existence of the re-froze of a fund that provides up to an additional $500,000 to cover losses. >> is that per account? >> yes, sir. >> what is the average account? >> the average account at mf global probably, i am is due in

the calculation in my head, was probably -- i am just doing the calculation in my head, was probably $1 million or more. 93% of the commodity accounts were less than $1 million. in both cases, there were numbers of customers who in the last weeks transferred their accounts to other firms. >> why did they do this? was their concern in the marketplace about mf global? >> absolutely. it had been downgraded. >> do you know of your own knowledge that that concern in the marketplace extended to chicago, to commodity futures trading, or to the sec or cme?

>> it was in the major newspapers. it was experiencing trouble, whether anyone expected there was a shortfall and segregation, i did not know that. i do know because of downgrading and losses -- >> people were leaving the ship. >> absolutely. >> your written testimony provides an overview of large cash movements at mf global during october 2011. were there any large transfers, you talked about others, from mf global's customer segregated accounts to the firms' own accounts while regulators were on site at mf global, starting on october 27? >> the answer is yes.

there were billions of transfers in and out of the firm. from the various accounts. >> the regulators were on site. >> yes, sir. >> whether any subsequent large transfers out of mf global's own accounts to pay counterparties? >> certain made during the period of october 27 through -- certainly during the period of october 27 through october 31. >> you recently announced he would pursue litigation in the united kingdom to recover approximately $700 million of customer funds. what is your best guess for how long it will take for mf global customers to recover if they do get the 700 million trapped in the uk? will it take weeks, months,

years? >> the petition to commence the case is due to be filed shortly. how quickly and how the court determines how the litigation is held, what discovery is required is unknown at this time. we will try to expeditiously get a decision from the court. we had a similar situation in a case in which our position was that funds that were with a u.k. broker-dealer were segregated customer funds. these happen to be security funds. that was opposed by the english regulators. that process, because of appeals, took almost in excess of two years before there was a

final decision. that might be the case here. >> what is your best judgment on how long it will take to recover the remaining nine added million dollars in customer funds? >> -- $900 million in customer funds? >> we have recovered a portion of that. >> how much? you can correct the record. >> i believe in excess of $500 million. i am not sure. we will supply supplemental information. >> commissioner sommers, i would like to come back to you. the chairman stated he did not want his relationship with mf global's c o to be a distraction. did the chairman ever express any concern that his relationship with mr. corzine

would be a distraction from any previous matter involving mf global, including matters related to cftc rule 125 dealing with the investment of customer segregated funds? >> not that i am aware of. >> you do not recall? have you searched your records? >> yes. >> the chairman also stated, "i will not participate in any enforcement related matter involving mf global and any matter directly related to their thereto." this appears to prohibit him from participating in any of the developfforts to recommendations based on lessons learned. do you agree or disagree?

>he cannot have it both ways. he is either in the game or out of the game. he says here he is out of the game. >> we have saw direction from the general counsel on my delegation. we are told my delegation does not go towards the policy recommendations that the chairman would be handling them. >> i know my time is moving on. i have another question i need to ask mr. giddens. on april 4 you provided an update on your investigation of j.p. morgan chase which is mf global's largest creditor, regarding the mf global fund and its possession. you stated that you and j.p. morgan "are engaged in substance of discussion regarding the resolution of claims."

is it your expectation that some of these funds will be returned from j.p. morgan chased to mf global customers? when ken mf global customers expect a resolution of claims against j.p. morgan? >> i believe that we have a solid basis for seeking a recovery of some of the funds that were transferred to j.p. morgan. as to how the decision ultimately will be made, if we do not reach a consensual conclusion, it will probably have to be resolved by a bankruptcy judge. how long that will take, it is difficult to predict. it is difficult to predict. we would not be exchanging

information and engaging in confidential discussions about legal arguments unless we thought we had a good prospect of recovering something from them. >> can i ask mr. freeh one quick question? mr. freeh, you are the trustee of mf global holdings. is it your responsibility to protect the assets of what is left of mf global? >> yes. mf global and the d otherebtors in chapter a of --nd the other debtors in chapter 11. >> thank you. >> i would like to thank our witnesses for the testimony

today. it is important that congress continue to of eluate the lessons learned from the collapse of mf global and discuss the important issues are raised. i look forward to working with my colleagues to help insure that we can better protect customer accounts and improved regulatory coordination. this hearing is adjourned. c-spa[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] what's next, homeland security secretary janet -- >> next, homeland security secretary janet napolitano. after that, a hearing on u.s. efforts in the uganda.

then, q&a. live tomorrow, a discussion of u.s. policy in the middle east at the anti-defamation league's national conference. speakers include stephen simon. our live coverage begins at 8:30 a.m. eastern on c-span2. >> beautiful downtown oklahoma city. my name is captain rick. give me a big old howdy. >> we explore the history of oklahoma city, including the works of galileo. >> the most important part of the book was on motion. when this was published in 1632,

the pope was angry that galileo had broken his promise to treat it hypothetically. the result was his trial. this also is a copy that contains his own handwriting. this is like being able to look over his shoulder in the months leading up to his trial. >> all next weekend, in oklahoma and on c-span2's bookm tv american history tv. >> janet napolitano told congress the secret service doesn't conduct in colombia was inexcusable. it is being investigated by the inspector general. the president's security was never compromised. in testimony, she also called for comprehensive immigration reform that would allow foreign farmers to work in the country illegally. she cited such as security as a top concern. this is two and a half hours.

>> i think we can get started. senator gramm is here. i do not know if senator schumer dropped in. the rules committee will be back. stenograph is over in the house, is that correct? senator kyl is here. we will go ahead. secretary, senator kyl is from the state of arizona. yeah. i suspect you do. i want to welcome secretary napolitano back to the judiciary committee. we will continue our oversight of the department of homeland security. she has testified here before.

i think i speak for every member of the committee that she has been responsive if we have called with questions. much attention has been focused on incidents prior to president obama's attendance to colombia. i have spoken a number of times with the secret service director about this. we have met privately for about an hour yesterday. probably been on the phone half a dozen or a dozen times. i have known the director from

the past when he was an agent. i knew him when president bush appointed him as director of the secret service and when president obama re-appointed him. i know he shares my view that the conduct was unacceptable. i think he is doing all he can to assure a thorough investigation. accountability for behavior that fail to meet the standards he expects, and certainly the standards of the president of the united states and the american people. he has taken action. last week, i raised my bipartisan briefing with judiciary committee staff with the secret service and officials of the department of homeland security. i have asked the director to make sure he is available to

members of this committee as the investigation continues. he has assured me he will be and that we know when they finish the investigation. nellow, i have no doubt you are treating the situation with equal seriousness. you talked a great deal with the director during this time. nobody wants to see the president's security cupper must. nobody wants to see america embarrassed. i pointed out to the director, we have to protect the president of the united states. there is also going to be the republican nominee for president, a governor romney. i cannot think of anything -- aside from a personal tragedy -- anything that would look worse to the rest of the world that if

anything happened to president obama or governor romney, and especially during a presidential election. i think everybody would agree with that. your first appearance, he focused on using a limited federal resources, do it smarter matter when enforcing immigration laws. you are following through. implementation of policy is a positive step forward. the new policy apprehends more individuals who are legitimate threats to public safety and provides relief to those who pose no relief -- threat. you stand by your commitment to focus on the most dangerous among the undocumented population. mr. martin was in vermont. we discussed that then, too. i think you are doing the best

you can. meaningful and comprehensive immigration reform. i supported president bush's efforts for meaningful and comprehensive reform. i still would like to see that, even though that has little impact on my state of vermont. as we are holding this hearing today, the supreme court is hearing an argumen constitutionality of an arizona immigration enforcement law. the constitutiona declares that congress should have the power to enforce a uniform rule. it should not be left to a hodgepodge of conflicting state laws. i hope we can get back to where we can do good, strong, comprehensive, bipartisan immigration policy. in 2010, we passed a measure to provide $600 million for

security enhancements. you made significant strides there. i understand illegal border crossings have declined. we have seen increases in the number of border control. i take special notice of your work with canadian officials on the beyond the border initiative on our shared northern border. i am impressed by that. it is very rare that someone is parochial, in vermont, many people look for it to our friends from canada visiting and enjoying all that vermont has to offer. when i was a youngster, you just thought of going to another state, it was that easy to cross

the border. we take that for granted. i hope we can work on that to protect our security but keep the border as open as possible. i was pleased to see the original program is among your recommendations. we worked for that in vermont. i look forward to working for reauthorization of the program. the senator and i have been working to get this and other expired visa programs to reauthorize. i will continue to work with you to strengthen and improve the program. i have raised the issue of screening procedures and technology in our airports. i continue to have questions about his policies and the impact on the privacy and health of america. what this technology is the most effective use of resources.

you see an elderly person in a wheelchair going through all kinds of screening. i am not sure how that is keeping a safe. we can talk about it. we protect our rights and civil liberties. i want to commend the men who work in the agency in your department. i have met so many of them. i know they work so hard. they care about our country. many are working hard at the vermont service center. that could be said of all of our states. the workforce in vermont, the vermont service center, see the men and women who work there. did you wish to make an opening statement? >> no, i think we want to hear

from the secretary, but thank you. >> madam secretary, it is open to you. then we will go to 7 minute rounds. we will rotate from side to osama it that the order in which people arrived. secretary to paul tonko. >> thank you chairman leahy. -- secretary napolitano. >> thank you chairman leahy. i thank the committee for your support of the department. the department was founded more than nine years ago. before i begin, i want to address the allegations of misconduct by secret service agents in colombia. the allegations are inexcusable. we take them very seriously. the allegations, i have been in close touch with director sullivan. the director took immediate

action to remove the agents involved. a full and thorough investigation is underway to determine exactly what transpired and actions we need to take to ensure this, but does not happen again. the director has my full confidence -- this contract does not happen again. the director has my -- c onduct does not happen again. the director has my full confidence. eight individuals are separated from the agency. the secret service is moving to permanently revoke the clearance of another. three of the employees have been cleared of serious misconduct but will face administrative action. at this time, all 12 secret service personnel identified in the investigation have either faced action or been cleared of

serious misconduct. let me be clear, we will not allow the actions of a few to tarnish the padded legacy of this secret service. an agency that has served numerous precedents and to execute their mission with great honor and integrity. i have nothing but respect for these men and women, many of whom put their own lives at risk. we expect all employees in the secret service and threat the apartment -- and throughout the department to adhere to the highest standards. we will continue to update the committee as the investigation proceeds. let me move to the department's progress since 9/11. 10 years after the terrorist attacks of september and 11, america is stronger and more secure thanks to the support of

the congress, the work of the men and women of the dhs and our partners to work across the homeland security enterprise. as i have said, homeland security begins with hometown security. as part of our commitment, we have work to get information, tools, and resources out of washington d.c. and into the hands of state and local officials. this has led to significant advances. we have made great progress in improving our domestic capability to detect and prevent terrorist attacks. we have increased our ability to analyze and distribute threat information at all levels through fusion centers, the reporting initiative, the national tourism advisory system, and other means. we have invested in training for

local law-enforcement and first responders. we have supported prepared this across our country to approximately $35 billion in homeland security grants since 2002. we have proposed important adjustments for 2013 to continue to develop, sustained, and leverage these capabilities. our experience over the past several years has made a smarter about the threats we face and how best to deal with them. we have learned that a vigilant public is essential to prevent acts of terrorism, which is why we continue to expand the "if you see something, say something" campaign nationally. we have also -- by sharing and leveraging

information with our many partners, we can make better informed decisions about how to best mitigate risk. over the past several years, we have also deployed unprecedented levels of personnel, technology, and resources, to protect our nation's borders. these efforts have achieved significant results, including decreases in illegal immigration as measured by apprehensions, and increases in seizures of illegal drugs, cash, and other contraband. the illegal immigration at temps are at their lowest level since -- illegal immigration but temps are at their lowest level since 1971. -- attempts are at their lowest level since 1971. last year, i removed record numbers of illegal aliens from

the country. 90% fell within our priority categories of criminal aliens and repeat violators, and immigration fugitives. we have focused on identifying and sanctioning employers knowingly hire workers not authorized to work in the united states. we have made important reforms in our detention system so that every individual is treated in a fair, safe, and humane manner. we have worked to reduce bureaucratic inefficiencies, streamline the path for entrepreneurs who wish to bring business to the united states, and improve systems for immigration benefits. in the area of saba security, we continue to lead the efforts to secure civilian government networks while working with industry, state, and local government to secure critical infrastructure and systems.

we are deploying the latest tools across the federal government to protect systems while sharing timely and actionable information with public and private partners to help them protect their own operations. we are also protecting the systems and networks that support the financial services industry, the electric power industry, and the telecommunications industry. we stand ready to work with the congress to pass legislation that will further enhance our ability to combat threats in the cyber demand. specifically, we support legislation that would establish performance standards for the nation's critical infrastructure. remove barriers for information sharing between government and industry so we can more quickly respond to it and mitigate cyber threats, ensure robust privacy

oversight to ensure that shared information does not infringe on individual privacy, including criminal the penalties for misuse, and provide dhs with the flexibility to attract and maintain the professionals we need to execute a more complex and challenging mission. threats against our nation, whether they be terrorists, criminals, or cyber adversaries, continue to evolve. we continue to evolve as well. i look forward to working with you and members of the committee to build on the progress we have achieved across these and many other areas. we remain ever vigilant to threats as we continue to promote the free movement of goods and people's essential to our economy and protect essential rights and liberties. thank you. >> thank you. we will put your full statement

in the record. our jurisdiction, we did want to ask you a few questions. i am concerned about the safety of any of the protectees, governor romney, there are several others. the misconduct we have heard about, did that pose any risk to the president's security or to national security? >> that was my first question to director sullivan. the answer is no. there was no risk to the president. >> you made that assessment? >> based on the information supplied by the director. >> is the secret service coordinating its internal

investigation with the department of defense or other agencies that might have been involved preparing for the president's arrival? >> we are doing it with the expected general. we have an existing moa between the secret service and theig. they are supervising the investigation. >> was there any evidence that the president's advance team was involved? >> i have not been informed. >> as we continue to look at this, we know the agents are trained in what is acceptable and unacceptable. are there standards governing appropriate conduct for agents on foreign trips and how they may interact with locals? if there are such standards,

however they conveyed? >> there are standards. they are conveyed through training and supervision. one of the things we are doing is looking at the standards, the training, the supervision, to see what if anything needs to be tightened up. we do not want this to be repeated. >> is the training given related to intimate contact with foreign nationals when traveling for security work? >> the training is focused on professionalism, conduct consistent with the highest moral thought years, i think that would include your question. -- v moralalues, -- moral values, i think that would include your question. >> when we travel, we have advisory's. i have been in some countries where we leave all of our

communication gear dismantled. with the u.s. security officers, and so forth, our agents, and given training and security. >> that is part of the process. >> if they thought there was an intelligent threat in a particular country, they would be advised? >> yes. >> i began my career during the cold war. the assessments are different than they are today. some of the assessments, because gear, increase in beer electronic gear, it is different. i assume that is based on today's threats.

>> how to secure our equipment? >> what things an individual has to look for. are they going to be a threat from agents of another country. >> the agents are informed as to what the intel is. what country-specific measures need to be taken. in this instance, there was no intention on the security of the president. there was no access to any secure information by the people involved. >> i have been on many occasions with the secret service around. they are very professional men and women. i have travelled with several different presidents over the course of my career. the secret service was very

professional. when i heard the number of agents involved, it alarms me. when i got my first call at home from the director, as my staff look into it, the bipartisan staff of the committee, the numbers, i found shocking. to your knowledge, is this the first time something like this has happened? have you had reports of similar incidents in the past? >> mr. chairman, i asked the same question. over the past two and a half years, the secret service office of professional responsibility has not received any complaint. over that same time, the secret service has provided protection to over 900 foreign trips and over 13,000 domestic trips.

from that standpoint, there was nothing in the record to suggest that this behavior was happening. it really was, i think, a huge disappointment to the men and women of the secret service, who uphold very high standards and to feel their own reputations are now peace march by the actions of a few. >> -- are now besmirched by the actions of a few. >> i hope they are not distracted by -- from their jobs. that has to be their job first. you and the director have the job of saying where we go from here. can you assure us that there will not be -- can you assure

us that it is clear to secret service agents that this conduct will not be condoned? >> that is our goal. it is three things that i discussed with the director. one was to make sure the president's security was never at risk. two was to make sure we instituted a prompt and thorough investigation into the allegations in colombia. three, what other steps we need to take for the future to make sure this behavior is not repeated. >> we are going to turn to the reauthorization of the violence against women act. a provision would increase the number of temporary visas available to victims who have cooperated with law enforcement offices in the prosecution of a criminal. sometimes, they are our best sources of information.

i have heard from law enforcement all over the country saying they support this. the department of homeland security support this provision of the increase of the pieces up for the purpose of cooperating and criminal cases? >> absolutely. >> i have raised the question before about the technology used for screening, i was very concerned about the earlier ones, the extra time machines. my worry -- the x-ray type machines. my worry is of a strip search type image of people. those machines, how much did dhs bent on acquiring them?

>> mr. chairman, the machines are at a unit cost of approximately hundred $30,000. i think we can get you the exact number. i think expenditure is probably, total, about $130 million. >> the changes, after the reaction on the original ones, the retrofits, they cost $12 million? >> i am not sure the cost that much. part of the contract was that the hardware would be able to accept the software. i will verify if it was $12 million. >> what companies were awarded contracts? >> rapidscan and l3. >> i apologize for taking the extra time. please go ahead. >> welcome, madam secretary.

i have really enjoyed working with your office on things unique to south carolina and the country. my experience with the secret service is very similar. the time i have travelled with senator mccain turned the last presidential election, i was impressed by the people, a lot of time away from families, long hours. anytime you have problems, you do not want to paint with a broad brush. let's start with the baseline. >> i concur. >> just like the military, systems failed. there is a system failure here. the likelihood that this was the first and only time such behavior occurred, do you think that is great or not so great? >> i think part of our

investigation is confirming that this was an aberration or not. i agree with you, senator, the secret service does a marvelous job. i have worked closely with them. >> the only reason i think we need to work harder is we are lucky they found out about this. if that had been an argument between an agent and a prostitute about money, we would never have known about it. the point is, you have a good discipline problem. do you believe the agents were confused that their conduct was wrong? >> they should not have been. >> i do not think it was a lack of training. >> i think the conduct was unacceptable. it was unprofessional. as i said, i think the people who are most disappointed are the other men and women of the

secret service. >> i could not agree more. human beings, we all make mistakes. sometimes come organizations can get loose. i have been a military lawyer for 30 years. one of the first things we would of but -- advised in his squadron commander -- advise a squadron commander, go to the barracks when they least expect it to go. show up at 3:00 in the morning. word will get out, you have to watch what you are doing. is there any similar program were supervisors would go out and visit people at the field on a random basis? >> i am not aware of that. i did not know the answer. that is one of the reasons we are continuing our work. >> can i suggest he look at a program similar to what the military does -- can i suggest you look at a program similar to

what the military does, where people would show upton at an unannounced bases, let people that someone back home is watching. are there any exit interviews done for people leaving the organization, if you ask them does anything bother you, have you seen anything that bothers you? we do that in the military. >> right. i know there are an exit interviews done. when that question is asked or something like, again, i did not know the answer. i can find the answer for you. >> i would suggest we look at changing the system so that people who are away from home never believe they are away from home. that somebody is always watching. >> we are looking at this from the aspect of, was the president's security impinge, a

discipline, and what do we need to do to tighten any standards that need to be tightened. i take the suggestions very seriously. >> i think this is a bipartisan -- i have never met mr. sullivan. everybody seems to of nothing but good things to say about him. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]