afghanistan and that is an unfinished situation. the taliban is coming back. he is right on the point of conflating war. we talk about a war on drugs or were on whenever. -- or a war on what ever. two administrations have claimed the legal construct on a war. if congress did not give the president wartime powers -- we had two presidents that are using them and saying we're in a perpetual state of war. in a mindset of perpetual war, the american people will become pretty sad passive about their civil liberties being eroded.

host: what one thing did you learn while putting this together? guest: you have to weigh different equities. toward always skew security. we have a system of checks and balances. i would feel more comfortable if there are more checks and balances on the powers we have created. host: james kitfield, senior correspondent for "national journal." thank you for being with us. we are back tomorrow morning. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

>> posting our discussion this morning is dr. jay carafano, and deputy director of the kathryn and shelby cullow davis institute. he is a graduate of west point. he held a master's degree and doctorate from georgetown university as well as a master's degree from the u.s. army war college. he has authored the book "wiki at war," "g.i. ingenuity," " lessons from the cold war and preserving freedom." join me in welcoming my colleague, jay carafano.

>> we are in washington, d.c., a town where everything things where you do it is about washington, d.c. there is a tendency that everything deals with our veterans is done by the federal government. it leaves out the rest of us, which is kind of a big deal. the americans that are protected and defended by these incredible people that go off to do incredible things. some don't come back but many do. they come back and transform us. their leaders in science and research and every facet of our lives. we want to talk about them. the former chairman of the joint

chiefs of staff took a personal interest in this issue and produced and adjusting white paper. he made a good point in the paper and i suggest you go online and read it. go on to the web and you confine over 40,000 websites of organizations that want to help the -veterans- 400,000. there is a question of, what are we supposed to be doing for the rest of us who live not given this a lot of thought. it is kind of a perilous journey and it has the appearance of mount everest, " how do i get started?" one thing i discovered in

looking at the history of america and the veterans are one of the constants from george washington to to day-- look at the needs of the veterans, things haven't really changed. the technology has changed and the society has changed. the most obvious, the helping and healing for people that are coming back from war, not just for the service member but for their families as well. that is well understood. there is a second category which is equally important and that is the transition -- the transition to the workplace, to education.

just the it's not service member but the family. sometimes the service member does not come back. the transformational aspect. veterans know when to the military and make the military to a better place. they bring these amazing skills, they contribute, and they hone their skills, and they come back out and transform us. they do amazing things and they need help there, too, into going back and continue to feed that propensity to serve. we wanted to bring together the three representatives that typify these three different things. they are all important and valuable.

find one of these kinds of organizations and grab on to them, or start one. i have three remarkable people from three incredible organizations. i can think of every wonderful and positive adjective to say and it would not be enough. i want them to give an opportunity to talk about the organizations and what they do. then we will have time for question and answer. there will be folks with some microphones. feel free to raise your hands and wait for the microphones. then you can state your name and your affiliation. that would be great. i will talk about the three groups that are represented.

the first group is an amazing organization called warriors and quiet waters. john baden is one of the co- founders of the organization. he is the director for research. john is the only member of the panel who is not a veteran. john has an incredible love for the country and an appreciation for what veterans do. you'll be thrilled to hear about at. edie rosenthal is the public- relations director for the special operations warrior foundation. this does something that no other organization does in terms of the transition of. the families from service into -- and colonel john baden is with

the congressional medal of honor foundation. they share their experiences and the values and the character of what makes great leadership and a great citizen -- it is a remarkable story. i will turn it over to john. there will talk for about 10 minutes and then over to your questions. thank you for coming to heritage. so, john, over to you. [applause] 10 minutes. >> 10 minutes i have. excellent. my wife is back there. we had the good fortune of of living on a ranch in montana.

i went to montana to teach. we had the great luck to buy a ranch 10 months from bozeman. that is relevant to my story. it turns out that for a variety of reasons, a very high proportion of the veterans have either returned to bozeman was like bozeman as a place to retire. the county is a fairly large county approximately half the of connecticutnte but only has 100,000 people. it is not a random sample of america. very few people live and

bozeman by accident and nobody comes to bozeman to make money. it is a college town that is in the mountains. the town is within four minutes of ski areas. one of the ski areas is a nonprofit. bozeman -- the county has less than 100,000 people. the state of montana has 1 million people. which is made 1 million people three months ago -- we just made 1 million people three months ago. we probably have more cows than people and we have more tru out than people.

when you think of bozeman, you think of yosemite park, people who still enjoy doing things on the outside. 30 years ago approximately, a retired air force general and his wife created an organization called eagle mounth. . they make a variety of outdoor activities accessible to people that suffer mental or physical problems. they started 30 years ago a program for skiing for people without legs are people that are paralyzed. that was a remarkable thing. they added kayaking and they

have any question program. -- they have an equestrian program. they take no government money. they have 21 programs, eagle mountai. rock climbing -- can you imagine that, without legs? we started talking about what we can do for wounded warriors. this was the perfect place to do it, whatever it was. one of my good friends is a physician, retired, a military dicoc, and a historic that is written several books on military medicine. we used to meet at the same

health club and we chatted about a variety of things -- it could be about fishing or hunting. how can we help military veterans who have been severely injured? if ever there was a perfect place to create warriors and quiet waters, it was precisely there. how many of you have seen the "a river runs througug it"? most of it was filmed near our ranch. it was a nicer place. we were talking about what could we do, what could be offered these veterans?

it turns out because there are a substantial number of very successful and young, active, retired military officers there. a fellow by the name of eric hastings, a marine colonel, and ain,o'connor, navy capt hatched the idea of going to military hospitals and haven't the staff of the hospitals identify individuals to come to montana for a week and learned to fly fish. wow. this was an ambitious project and it was a bit hard to sell it to the people at the military hospitals. bozeman is sort of a remote place.

how do we do all this? the bozeman area is the mecca of trout fishing. the military veterans had sustained context with their colleagues, manage to identify people in military hospitals who could basically recruit the first group. so, we brought six very severely injured combat veterans to those spent with the idea to teach them how to fly fish, and bozeman is such a remarkable place. there are a number of people who are professional fly fisherman -- we're talking hundreds. some of them are extraordinarily good.

there is an immense reservoir of respect and appreciation for veterans. this is part of the community. the veterans show up, we fly them and either commercially or sometimes on military planes -- will fly them in. we started this in 2007. with that only one person who would ever fll -- we have had only one person who has fly fished, and only one women. they show up and they are in awe. they're from houston and baton rouge and from philadelphia and east los angeles and so forth. these are not kids who took family vacations out in these places.

they shot and the land in the spectacular plays, bozeman, montana. if the plant in june, the mountains are covered in snow -- if they land in june. the snow starts coming back in september. it is breathtaking and wonderful. they arrived and we take them to a very high-end fishing, but i went out fat them with all of the fishing gear they will need for life. if there leg is off, we make special waters for them. they get a very nice rod and reel and their outfitted totally.

it is not professional equipment but it is better equipment than i use. high-end stuff. the first day we teach these people how to fly fish. they go to a place that has -- that is easy. initially these groups came to our ranch. we have a creek and a series of ponds. we set them up with platform so they can fish in comfort. they do not have to wade in weeds. it is a transformative experience for them. . milike 1/4 to 1/3

say they want to comeback. how much or do you want to go? >> i think we're about -- >> that is it? what we do. about i am on the board. i am the public policy adviser. people asked, what do you do? don't take any government money. can you imagine? entirely privately funded. can you imagine the osha -- load that person in a boat and float him down a wild river?

>> can you see something quickly about what folks can find on the web site? >> go to warriosand quiet waters. we have a video that is worth watching -- go to warriors and quiet waters. i'm sure you've heard of the " weekly standard." i contacted a senior writer. i knew what lure would bring him. i talked to him about warriors and quiet waters. he was just captivated by the program. i think it is the june 11 issue, "weekly standard," the cover

story shows a double amputee fly-fishing. the longest article "weekly standard" has ever run, with lots of features. -- lots of pictures. >> it is called "semper fly." >> go to our web site and send us some support. >> thank you. >> thank you. it is my honor to be here. my name is edie rosenthal and i'm with the special operations warrior foundation. we have been around since 1980. if you were serving in special operations forces -- your navy

seals, army rangers, the elite special forces -- and you lose your life in a training are combat mission, we will send your children to college, all expenses paid -- tuition, book, board., room and he threatens many times to fly out but he is never had to do that. our secondary program was to support our wounded warriors coming back from combat. we send them $3,000 overnight to help them defray any cost, and expected cost whether that is bringing in family members, a wife, a spouse, a grandmother

and it can cover day care, pet expenses, whenever they want to use the money for. they get it over night and accused to cover those costs. our board is meeting right now to decide what else the can do to support our wounded warriors. some of the things they need are for long-term care. we have been sending some of the spouses out for a weekend or to get away because the care givers are getting fatigued. that is the least we can do and we are trying to figure out what else we can do for the care givers. we started a program where we're working with a select number of people so we can get our guys and gals recovering or severely burned or missing limbs, we can

get them the sleep number baded. they need hard matches to get into and out of the bed, but while they are sleeping, they may need to be soft. the spouse may not want to have the hard bed or soft bed. nobody was sleeping. we got the feedback. we're making sure they are getting what they need. we have 900-something children and 140 rogram 1 and4 children in college is right now. our goal is for that child to know that we are there for them.

we reach out to them and send them christmas cards and birthday cards and congratulations cards. we make sure they know that their fallen parent will never be forgotten and that we will be there for their children. if they want to go to a technical or vocational school, we are all for that, too. our main goal is that they succeed in life. if you want to be a mason, you'll be the best mason there is. i didn't bring my notes. we are rated in the top 3% of charities within the country and 5%. overhead is only fiv we are a small staff with multiple hats.

staff is mostly prior military. i am retired navy. it is personal. we get to know the families and to meet the children. we will have 20 families at an event today. you get to meet them, to know them, to love them. >> talk about how the foundation was started. >> the foundation was started in 1980 when president carter sent over special operations team to rescue the hostages that were held in iran. we had a terrible accident in iran. a colonel was on that mission. the c-130 and a helicopter collided.

one member was burnt. they passed a hat right there and decided to do something to take care of the 17 children left behind to make sure that those children are not forgotten. we of ground to over 900 children today -- we have grown to over 900 children today. we're all privately funded. no government funding. >> jack. >> thank you for having me here. tennis is a lot of time -- 10 minutes is a lot of time. the anchor says, "what you think of that?" they go to a commercial. it is a long time.

but it is enjoyable. i spent the last couple days on the air talking about the president being in afghanistan. that is the president and yes, that is afghanistan. i am a military expert. it is a great treat to be with you. eat to be withtr a live audience. people are home in their easy chairs drinking beer. there were 400 living medal of honor recipients when i was decorated. the average age would be in the neighborhood of78 or 79.

i'm one of the younger ones except for the recently decorated younger ones. there were some money recipients back in those days. most were the result of the second world war. some were from the first world war, some living with the boxer rebellion. jamie into little and so on. those guys were all gone. all gone now. about 10 years or so ago, we started taking down oral histories so we made sure we would capture the reminiscences, the feelings, the idea that people were still around. i tell kids all the time -- we talk to schools all the time

-- when today is gone, it is gone for ever and you cannot get it back. when you're young, two days, it two years, five years, all the same. then when you are old and decrepit and falling apart, you realize every day is a larger percentage of what you have left and it is finally important to do what you can today. the medal of honor recipients have always spent lots of time talking to public audiences, but particularly the schools. when we had living recipients, we had plenty of assets to be able to do it. medal of honor society was chartered by congress in 1958, but never appropriate any money for it. it is the small club chartered by congress of all the living

recipients of the medal of honor. about a dozen years or so ago, some public citizen happened to be in an airport and ran across a guy -- recently the oldest living recipient -- he died when he was 101. he received his medal of honor for action on pearl harbor day. he was wandering around from airport to airport to deliver addresses to schools, and tell kids about sacrifice and patriotism and so on. as the citizen discovered, and johnson was paying for it by himself. that is what all the medal of honor recipients did ted they always troubled around and paid for everything by themselves. he thought it was an abomination, and decided to found the medal of honor

foundation was sole purpose was to support the activities of the medal of honor society. as i said, the number of middle daughter was in swindles and it becomes more and more important that this mission -- the number of the medal of honor recipients to wyndal and becomes more and more important that this mission accomplished, mostly to talk to kids. education is the most important thing we do. without it, we would not be here today, and without it, the next generation will not be able to survive. it is important to teach the values that brought us to this point, particularly service and sacrifice. all the middle of honor recipients said the same thing -- we don't where the award for ourselves, we do it for those who cannot read somebody asked bob kerrey, a medal of honor recipient, used to be governor and senator from nebraska, trying to become senator from

nebraska again -- i am not a politician and i don't like politicians very much -- somebody asked him, what does it take to get the medal of honor? people have to be able to see it. people have to be able to w rite and can't hate you. the paperwork was intentionally or unintentionally lost, and you realize that all recipients know that we represent everybody who has ever been in uniform, and it is the message of service and sacrifice and patriotism that we bring to the children of the country. we do it because the medal of honor foundation gets the assets from donations in order to do it. without it, we could and to do it. -- we couldn't do it.

we cannot send recipients to tell them of sacrifice. a wild g -- wide gulf has opened up, intellectual gulf, has opened up between those who served. to that end, the medal of honor foundation put together a character development program, an entire curriculum with lesson plans and videos, all of which were taken from the oral histories of medal of honor recipients. 140-so of them, 140-so of these oral histories. if we did not get started doing

this 10, 12 years ago, we would not have 60 people today who we do have. any teacher anywhere can teach all of it, part of it, not just scivics and character development. it started out in pennsylvania, 90 and school districts there -- 99 school districts there. it is mightily important we get to every district in the country. it is not our sole mission, but damn near our sole mission. let me tell you very briefly my experts talking to kids, which i do all the time t. i was born a cynic, and i'm not getting any less cynical.

most kids are not. when you talk to high school kids, especially in inner cities, difficult circumstances, at-risk kids come mother is up prostitutes, live with the grandparents, father in jail, so on -- they are tough audiences. gramm gets to them. -- this program gets to them. i remember we shot the video asking kids to give us feedback, and i remember this one real cynical 17-year-old gangbanger -- this had been a bad kid. he had the program in his lap, and he looks at the camera and said, "i did not know any of this." he points an accusing finger at the camera. know this was a

glbrings tears to the -- "why didn't i know this?" it brings tears to the eyes. i appreciate your having me here. [applause] >> talk for a bit about how people find out about the curriculum and get access to it. >> get access to it, education in particular, very easily. information is on the website. i cannot remember, because my brain doesn't work properly. >> www.cmohedu.org. >> cmohedu.org, right. you have got to tell the --

>> what is the background of medal of honor? like everybody's background. sylvester herrera did not realize until the day he listed -- medal of honor recipient -- that he was not an american scitizen and his uncle had carried him as an infant. an alien from mexico, medal of honor recipient, medic in vietnam. one of the more astonishing stories is ted rubin, hungarian jew in a concentration camp, gets freed by patton's army. they open up more camps, kill the bad guys, end the war. it was not in sure think that if

you got released from the concentration camp, he would survive. starving to death, no food, the rest of that stuff. ted at that time was 15 at. he made a vow -- if i survive, i will do whatever i can to get to the united states, and joined the army, become a g.i. joe -- his words -- and eight united states back for saving my life. his entire family was extended and i can spread to this day, if you talk to him, -- his entire family was exterminated in the camps. to this day, if you talk to him, you need subtitles. [laughter] a real character. he cannot speak english at all. how is he going to pass the armed forces qualifying test? cheats.'t -- he [laughter] gets the highest grade.

the jig is up. he winds up in korea. he is nominated for the medal of honor four at separate times. his first sergeant was a real anti-semite, sent them out by himself, hoping he would not come back. 50 years later -- by the way, he was ultimately captured and spent time at tunney's concentration camp -- chinese concentration camps. he knew how to survive in camps. he had done that before. a bunch of his buddies get together for every in and say, "what ever happened to ted rubin? i recommended him for the medal of honor." to make a long story a little bit shorter, we wrote it up and

got it done. i went to the ceremony in 2005 and met some of the guys recommended for the award, and one of them that sticks in my mind, 82 years old, in a wheelchair, crying his eyes out, points to ted rubin and says "that man saved my life." it is these stories, the notions that we fight to defend the country and commerce commission, but most of all, we fight for each other, the notion of community, service and sacrifice pit is thes -- it is these stories we try to get out. >> if it wasn't for the medal of honor foundation and the history come i never would have heard that story. anybody can go on the website and pull out these. that story is so moving.

"if i survive, i want to be the g.i. joe." unbelievable moment. when he talks about his experiences in camps in korea, thinking he is just going to die. he is helping them live. >> as a result of his stories on kids, we are successful in importing the notion that you are not alone, you are part of a community, and if you give up, all is lost, but if you don't give up, anything is possible. you can get any, even cynical, kid to think that way. [applause] >> we will have an opportunity for questions to find out more about these remarkable organizations. my good friend, who has one good hand, i guess. [laughter]

>> i enjoyed the conversation. i have pushed the peanut of education ever since i retired and went into consulting. i've tried very diligently to get senior instructors and rotc, ex-military, and at one of them in california, a friend of mine, a marine, and he was a great role model, but he taught in in a rotc. need to get together and see these kids as well models. the mountain of ignorance of people who don't have any connection with the military, they become a political appointee, and education is an afterthought. i'm on the board of the national trust for wounded warriors, which is supposed to raise a lot of money in the future.

god bless you all for what you're doing. >> may i respond to that? you fixed on the most important thing we have to keep in mind, taking care of wounded warriors, educating people, and so on -- the question of ignorance, at the end of the day. the only thing double overcome -- that will overcome ignorance is education. ignorance is an inertia-ridden characteristic. >> for people who don't know, explain what jrotc stands for. >> junior reserve officers training corps. the younger you talk to kids about what is important, the more likely they will be to have those values when they brough --

when they grow up. >> one of the things that has surprised us by how well it worked -- after the first two years, we had several of our alums say "i would like to come back, i want to bring my wife. she does not believe how this place change to meet." we created a second program got basically a couples program, and a total of 8 -- 4 men and their wives -- they come in for a week at the guys basically want to share this remarkable experience with their wives. we are hosting one group of them -- i think it is in august, but

sometime this summer. the loyalty we have among alums is quite remarkable. >> the connections to education that all three of the groups has -- jack's organization is doing a lot and a budding curriculum education in the school, and getting people into school, and i did not realize that a lot of the folks that go there want to come back -- >> montana. >> other questions? jim? >> thank you very much. i would like to direct a question to you kindly. take a step further on a comment you made about one of the best things "you cannot believe how much this changed me." talked a little bit about the changes you see, and what that

brings to his life going forward. >> one of the things i would recommend is you go on our website, and look at the video, the 11-minute video. very high probability it will make your eyes sweat, but not in a bad way at all. of the several hundred we've had come through, very few have had any experience fly-fishing and all -- at all. it is not about fishing, by the way. it is about guys whose orientation has been doing physical things, and how they are seriously impaired. however, there is something transformative about being in

this beautiful, beautiful setting on this water with people who care it, genuinely care, about you. we have a professional guide who volunteers his time and a companion for each of the vets. they are with them will whole time. they just show them love and care and tolerance and success. i mean, 100% of these guys are successful in doing this physical, romantic activity of learning to throw a fly line and actually catching wild trout that you can see. it is such a beaming that come over their faces. we had a seal that had lost both

legs and suffered very serious brain injuries from blasts. he couldn't talk, even. but he is out on a dock -- another friend's pond -- and he catches a fish, and it is is beautiful trout. people are cheering for him, and he cannot talk, but he reels it is in, and the guy shows it to him, and he is crying. i can hardly talk about it. it is it really just a wonderful experience. it is just swimming in this pool of love. we have far more volunteers than we can use. we have training sessions for volunteers.

it is and experience in which it they i just enmeshed in beautiful nature and with people who cared we keep them together it also, by the way. we lease a guest ranch. what we hope to do is to have enough money so that we can build an ada-certified place, a place capable to handle people who are severely handicapped. now we have to accommodate and fudge it, quite frankly. but we would like to have a campaign that would enable us to have our own facility that we would share with other organizations. perhaps with eaglemoutn, perhaps with others. >> tell us what ada stands for. >> american disabilities act.

ramps, bathroom facilities and others that are appropriate. >> the impact on these veterans, showing them that there is future an opportunity and tell usishment -- tele about the effect on the group as a community. >> one of our problems is telling people no, because this is a program that -- everybody who learns about it says, gee, what can i do to help? you know not everybody can help. we have professional-level guides for fishing. there is a certification program for that. lots of people think, in really good fly fisher, i would make a good guide. well, no. [laughter]

we a professional g -- we have professional guides who live close to the ground. they are not rich people, but they give up the opportunity to be paid big bucks a day to donate their services to us, to the men. they are the companion spread and there are -- there are the companions. and there are the moms. the same ladies are there every morning to take care of them, make pancakes, such and such. their love, their concern, and their money. my first piece writing about this was december 27, 2006.

it is fairly new organization. >> other questions? >> let me go back to you for a second. one of the stories that i really appreciate is about the son of the pilot. he was one of the first graduates of the foundation program, and has been an eloquent spokesperson for the program. >> we have a lot of stories. he was the pilot of the c-130 that flew in the desert of iran. his son was 8 years old at that time. he was one of our first students. he went all the way through medical school. he is now a pediatric oncologist. he wants to be on our board, but

he is so busy. when we can, we get with him and his family. another spokesperson we have is a young marine, and he was in a roadside bomb in iraq. he was only 23 at the time. he did not lose his leg and right away. it was severely damaged on the upper thigh. they wanted to take the lead, but he did not want to do it then. but it meant so much to him that we gave him the money that is mom was able to come down from new york to bethesda and spend a month with him there before they moved to new york. he ran a 100-mile race, which he had never done before. it shows you the character and the grit of these guys.

he was severely dehydrated, because the race was down in key west. it was super hot that weekend. he called me -- "i'm just letting you know, i have to stop. my friend is a medic, and i'm hydrating. i'm going to take a little break." "i only have 25 more miles to go." [laughter] my gosh, only 25 miles. he rehydrated himself, and he finished that race, and he raised $100,000 for the foundation. it has to do with the creek and the character -- the grit and the character. would nott quit, he

quit. >> here is what we are going to do. we will take two more questions. the last question, for that audience, folks watching online and on c-span, what should people know about them as a nation and at the veterans? what is the most important thing for them to understand about veterans? after that we will run the murderers' row. >> i run a consulting company. we were severely tried on 6 august with the death of 38 with the shoot-down of the chinook, and 32 special operators.

large, horrific impact. can you tell us what your foundation did with the immediacy and the beautiful commemorative service that was done on virginia beach and the beautiful funeral, if i can say that? could you comment on that, please? >> i can. that was a horrible, tragic accident. we have never lost that many special operators in one incident. not only our foundation, but other foundations who all pulled together. it is the team effort. within our foundation, at accident took out a large amount of special operators, and navy seals, combat controllers, and also the conventional forces of the army and military air crew could normally, we don't cover those guys, but we got together

and just said we have to. all of those children are in the program right now, and we will make sure they code college -- go to college. in addition to that, we said that we need to make sure that all these families, extended families -- i mean, a huge amount of families and loved ones -- can get to these services. these are not normal circumstances. have anothern't tragic accident like that again. jack.ll start with actually, start with the john. in a minute or less, what to the nation know about veterans and responsibilities? >> the foundation i'm with the stresses the importance of the social entrepreneurship, and we

were involved in creating warriors and quiet waters. we have four of the board members. social entrepreneurship is really important in creating warriors and quiet waters, a ina place like this. but, once we have the template built, it could be replicated. my fondest hope when i started talking about it was that we would build something that could be replicated across the country. not necessarily fly-fishing. there would not be fly-fishing in texas or florida. maybe in new york. i would just love to see our program be a model that could be reproduced throughout the nation and it could be through any number of things.

it is about showing love and appreciation for wonderful people. >> questions about veterans and i guess my thought on that is that i think we are pretty blessed that even in our younger generation, we have people that still stand up and say i will go. that takes a lot of courage knowing that they will be going to foreign countries. i think we are in good hands with our veterans. it is because of the veterans that have served in the past. >> there are two things that come to mind. the first is that nobody gets authority and responsibility at an early age more than veterans. when people think about hiring people, hiring a veteran is not charity. you are getting the absolute clean up the crop. the best that this country can produce. about veterans, generally,

whenever i think of them, i have to think about war. i'm always reminded the observation that jon stewart made. war is a terrible thing, but is not the most. -- the worst. the most important thing is a miserable creature who is made free and kept free by the exertions of better people. we are very lucky to have the people we have now. >> the incredible, remarkable thing about all three of these organizations and what they do is really not that they are veterans organizations. the great service they perform is the connection that they veteransetween our createan and us. weather is a recipient educating a new generation or saving a

child and making sure they become a doctor or connecting a community to be able to understand and appreciate the value for what veterans do and what they as a community can accomplish. this is about enriching america, not just about helping veterans, as important as that is. on behalf of all of us, thank you for what to do. help us thanks and joins us. [applause] [unintelligible] [laughter] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

[inaudible conversations] >> a selection of documents seized in the raid on osama bin laden's house has been posted online by the u.s. army combating terrorism center. the 17 letters and documents show the impact of years of attacks by the u.s. and what osama bin laden saw in his own organization and its terrorist allies. we have linked them to our website, c-span.org. our live coverage on c-span continues at 1:15 p.m. when mitt romney makes a virginia campaign

stop with bob mcdonnell. there will be at a construction company in virginia. c-span2 is live with a congressional hearing on the case of the blight chinese activist who saw protection from the u.s. embassy. if they will look at the history of the situation and possible solutions. every night, c-span3 shows " american history tv." former cbs news anchor dan rather recants his broadcasting career including his dismissal from cbs after 44 years this evening live on "book tv." that begins at 7:00 p.m. eastern. libertarian party selected its presidential nominee this weekend at the party's national convention in las vegas. they are celebrating the 40th anniversary this year. we have live coverage tomorrow

night at 9:00 p.m. of a two hour debate between the libertarian candidates, . >> sunday on "queue and a," -- "q &a" -- >> this is a kind of political power. seeing what a president can do in a moment of great crisis. great crisis, how he gathers the world around and what does he do to get legislation moving. that is a way of examining the power at the time of crisis. i want to do this in full. i suppose it takes 300 pages. that is why i said, let us examine this. >> robert caro on "the passage of power." is multivolume biographee --

biography of lyndon johnson. look for our second hour sunday may 20. one year after osama bin laden was killed, the state department counterterrorism coordinator says al qaeda is on a path of decline that will be difficult to reverse. he spoke yesterday at a conference hosted by the marine corps university for about a half an hour. >> will be introducing our keynote speaker this afternoon, the president of the marine corps university, general murray. he will be leaving us this summer and take over education command and be in charge of all of marine corps education. i can see why. i want to thank him publicly for having been a commander who believes in michigan type orders, who gives guidance, but allows so ordnance to carry it out and giving them trust and support. that is very important and i'm

sure he will take that to his next command as well. general murray. [applause] >> i kind of thought you were just trying to get rid of me quickly there at the beginning when you started out. thanks to everyone as we start out the afternoon session, for coming here today and taking part in this discussion. i encourage you to continue to do so this afternoon because you have a lot of experience and expertise. that is why we have asked you to come here with us today. please, focus our participation this afternoon and again. thank you very much. i would like you to thank the support for this conference this afternoon. our keynote speaker for today, ambassador daniel benjamin.

he is currently ambassador at large and is with the state department as the coordinator of counter-terrorism. a very unique background, a combination that we do not often see. i think it would be beneficial to us this afternoon. in government and private- sector media and as well in academia, and aside from his current position in government, he has also served with the clinton administration as the director of counter-terrorism and in the office of multinational threats. he has also served as a speechwriter on foreign policy and a special adviser to president clinton. in the media realm, he has been a correspondent for "time" magazine as well as "wall street journal." and has served as a senior fellow at the brookings

institution in academia, and also has degrees from harvard and oxford where he serves as a marshall scholar. a great background and very honored to have you with us this afternoon. please welcome the ambassador. [applause] >> thank you very much, general. and thank you for reminding me of the difficulty i have had in holding a job. [laughter] i have to say that if you are really going to be education command, i envy you that title greatly. that sounds terrific. it is a real pleasure to be back at quantico, and particularly to be here today on this anniversary day. i cannot think of a better place to be that at one of the nation's centers of innovation, thinking, and training about dealing with the threats that we face, a place that has played such an important role in the advances that have brought us so far in the struggle against terrorism.

i would like to thank minerva for inviting me to this conference. as far as addressing the question of how terrorist and radical groups and, it is certainly timely and provocative one. anniversaries provide us a good time to take stock and assess where we are. we find ourselves as we get the one-year mark of the death of osama bin laden. that mission's success, of course, was the result of extraordinary courage and intelligence. and i mean intelligence not only in the sense of the information we had about what was going on, but intelligence about how to conduct, such an operation. it was moreover, a real testament to the american resolve, and it built on the work and determination of countless intelligence analyst, collectors, military specialists and operators as well as a host of counter-

terrorism professionals across the government and across many years. over the last week or so, we have seen a variety of opinions expressed in the media and various public fora to take stock in the -- to take stock of where we are in the world before -- concerning al qaeda. many of the questions that you are going to examine in this conference about how terrorist groups and are, i'm happy to say, is a bit beyond my purview. but i do want to start the discussion with looking at where we are regarding al qaeda, what the environment is in which that network operates, and then to offer some thoughts on what more we need to do to achieve the common goal of reducing the danger from this group. let me begin by giving you an assessment of the threat of landscape.

i will start with the court and work my way out word. -- the core and work my way out work. as all of you know, the death of bin laden was a landmark. he was the sole commander and founder for 22 years, and iconic leader and some of his personal story had a profound attraction for violent extremists. and we should also not forget that he predicated the group's focus on america as the qassam terrorist target. -- as the group's terrorist target. we know that he had to manage all contact with -- when he was not organizing contact, he was directly involved in organizing a strategy more so than we had thought. and as many of you are

undoubtedly aware, he was not the only top al qaeda corr leader who departed in 2011. also one of the most dangerous and cable vault operatives in south asia -- capable operatives in south asia left. and the senior operational commander, both of those were killed. in pakistan and in our tiny and -- in mayra taneytown, -- in pakistan. and in mauritania another was arrested last year. u.s. stronghold in much of the tribal areas have -- has degraded the ability of the group. al qaeda is losing badly, and bin laden knew it. in documents he talked of disaster after disaster. he even urged tribal leaders to go to places away from air

photography and bombardment. and in addition to the significant -- leadership losses, they also found themselves having difficulty with getting money, training of recruits and attacks in the region. i think we ought to acknowledge the al qaeda core remains a threat and we recognize that at any given time it could carry out strikes at u.s. interests at home and abroad. but al qaeda is on a path of decline that will be difficult to reverse. of course, its core is not the only story. despite the blows in pakistan that i have described, as well as elsewhere, the global network of al qaeda remains an enduring and serious threat to

the u.s. much of al qaeda's activity has devolved into its affiliates, and many individuals remain receptive to its ideology. clearly, much more work needs to be done. al qaeda in the arabian peninsula represents a particularly serious threat. the 2006 christmas day, tent, the attempted bombing in the fall of 2010 have directly illustrated the threat it poses to the united states, its friends and its allies. it has benefited from lustres political crisis in yemen and policies that accompanied it. -- the paralysis that accompanied it. it has maintained control of territory in yemen for its recruits. the yemeni people after election are taking steps towards probability and security. -- stability and security. if the yemeni transition progresses, we will continue to provide security and

counterterrorism earned -- counter-terrorism support to combat violent extremism as with a liver humanitarian -- as we deliver humanitarian and economic aid. elsewhere in the gulf in iraq, we have seen the persistence of another aq affiliate, al qaeda in iraq. iraqi forces continue to toaqi and they have shown -- to confront aqi and have shown substantial ability they have been unable to mobilize the senate committee, which deterred -- which turned decisively against it. -- they have been unable to mobilize the seung-hui community, which turned decisively against it. aqi is believed to be extending its reach into syria. as we have seen in yemen and elsewhere, civil strife creates the kind of environment that

terrorists are drawn to. some attempt to manipulate and exploit the situation. the extent that extremists are working with opposition elements remains unclear. the opposition groups in many cases may not be aware that they are, and many of them have disavowed any desire to cooperate with aqi. in east africa, al-shabab remains the primary driver of instability. in february, ivan al-zawahiri and the al-shabab leader announced a formal alliance. its four soldiers are very much focused on events within

somalia. -- its foot soldiers are very much focused on events within somalia. but they are still willing to conduct attacks elsewhere in the region, as we saw on the 2010 bombing in uganda and it continued threat in kenya and burundi and elsewhere. with the assistance of alassane and some of somalia's neighbors, somalia has made significant gains in degrading al-shabab's capability and degrading it administration over the last year. this is a very important good news story, and probably a better news story than many of us have probably expected after years of frustration in somalia. the death of key leaders and organizations and popularity is a result of its failure to address a basic need during the

humanitarian crisis. it continues still to pose a threat to civilians, humanitarian workers and government structures there. alassane has been the historic weakest affiliate. m.o. has been a kidnapping for ransom, or kfr. they have garnered millions of dollars through kfr. these new crown resources, together with the advantage of taking -- with the ability to take advantage of the instability in the region have strengthen them. while there are recent efforts of the torrid -- tuaregs to distance themselves. boko haram is not an official

affiliate, but it leaves the organized group of militants and extremists. they are focused on internal nigerian issues and exporting -- exploiting the grievances in the northern part of the country. they launched attacks across northern nigeria, including one in august against the u.n. headquarters in abuja that signaled its capability to attack non-nigerian targets. despite having suffered shattering setbacks on a number of occasions, most recently in

2009, a lack of progress in resolving an emmy and grievances, combined with the heavy-handed tactics and has led to the group's resurgence. despite their weak organization, its brand of violent extremism is gaining ground and cannot be overlooked. we remain concerned by a report of communications trainings and weapons links to our shebaa and al qaeda in the arabian -- al- shabab and al qaeda in the brianne peninsula. -- arabian peninsula. finally, remain concerned about threats to the homeland. in the last several years cannot individuals who have been trained by aq and its affiliates have operated within the u.s. borders. and while they are so-called loan will terrace, they also pose a threat -- lone wolf terrorists, they pose a threat.

as a result of its weakened status, al qaeda and especially its affiliate, is pursuing people to conduct individual acts of violence. that has become one of the main thrust of the group at the moment. the last case in toulouse and nabhan represent -- and montalban represents the challenges we face. at this point, i would like to turn to turn to the larger historical circumstances shaping the battle. over the last year in the middle east, a number of events have greatly discredited the extremist argument that only violence can bring about change. that is physically an aq argument. al qaeda's single-minded focus

on terrorism as an instrument of change can be severely de- legitimize it. basic human freedoms is something all of us should support because it is profound in its own right. but from a person -- security perspective we also have a great deal to gain. democracy can give people a stake in their governance, and thereby weaken those who call for violence. we have no illusions that this process will be painless or quick. revolutionary transformation undoubtedly, paired with the many bonds in the road. we are not blind to the perils. terrorists can cause significant disruptions for states undergoing challenging democratic transitions, and those states are often

themselves distracted, weakened, or otherwise by the lack the capacity in their ability to deal with terrorist groups. for example, the philippine revolution profoundly affected some of the poorest families on earth. exiled fighters returning has significantly changed the situation in somalia and nigeria and chad and mauritania. it has created a vacuum and the north of the country that has provided aqim with greater freedom of movement. while history appears broadly to be going in the right direction, we obviously cannot count on it going in the right place everywhere all the time, as we see -- i should also add,

in nigeria. it what more do we need to do to defeat or reduce the terrorist challenge? what the same terrorist groups are financing is below of new recruits. to put al qaeda and like-minded extremists on a permanent path to defeat, these groups will have to lose their ability to recruit new members. how do we stop that inflow of new recruits and prevent those that do take up arms up from achieving their goals? our counter-terrorism successes in the last few years are attributable in large part to the extraordinary amount of international cooperation we've seen over the last 10 years. and although we have not been

able to prevent all attacks, we have disrupted dangerous conspiracies and taken bad actors off the streets and disruptive highly cable networks. there is much to be a product as a global network. we have become exceptionally adept at effectively counter terror -- countering terrorism. we have to undercut the ideological and rhetorical underpinnings that maybe extremist world view attractive to some individuals and groups pa also addressing local grievances and other drivers. we also have an opportunity to build with our global partners to deliver a strategic blow to al qaeda and it's dangerous ideology and put this organization on at half to oblivion. to be truly successful, we have to focus our efforts on its affiliates and also working to make inroads against terrorist recruitment. therefore, working with our

colleagues, our focus is on two major lines of effort. first, building are neighbors capacity. second, countering the ideology and blunting the drivers of extremism. we know that when there is a recognition of the need on the part of other states and the political will to address that need, we can help with programs to build the capacity of our partners. and we can develop the stability of partners with their law enforcement institutions to do a better job of tracking and incarcerating terrorists. you in the military are fully engaged in this effort, particularly through the many training programs that you undertake in countries are on the world.

the flagship capacity building effort remains the anti- terrorist assistance program. one of our goals is to build a pleasure trip partner countries, and with law enforcement in particular, and the atf is able to effectively provide advanced training. this formula -- formulate program has been successful in turkey, indonesia, some countries in northern africa, and jordan. it is important to note that we are also working to put the capacity building effort atop the international agenda. particularly the international global terrorism form. it is a new counterterrorism body with 39 countries and was launched by secretary clinton on september 22 last year in new york with her counterparts from most of the founding members. it's initiative is a major part of the obama administration's broader effort to deal with 20%

3 threats. its primary focus is on capacity building and relevant areas. it will increase the number of countries dealing with terrorism within their border regions. this will help north african countries undergoing transitions to engage with the u.s. and other western countries on politically sensitive issues. this can be how the western partners can best support the transition away from oppressive regimes to roulade law foundation based on counter- terrorism. -- rule of law foundation's based on counter-terrorism. these meetings offer a wide -- an ideal platform for its efforts. at the september launch, we saw two major accomplishments that demonstrated the reaction- oriented nature of the gctf. its members mobilized some $100 million to support the training of prosecutors, judges, police and officials to help move away

from oppressive tactics of terrorism. this is one of the most hopeful signs that we can blunt one of the key drivers of radicalization. these programs will assist countries in their transition as they draft a new counter- terrorism legislation and train the key officials necessary to apply laws in keeping with universal human rights. on the counter in violent extremism side, there is a group working to do precisely that. the united arab emirates is

going to step up and host the first conference ever on fighting violent extremism. its target audiences will include government policy makers, police, educators, media, online communicators, and other religious and community leaders from around the world. indeed, countering a violent extremism, this second prong of what we call the strategic counter-terrorism agenda, is at the core of our policy and about interrupting the flow of new recruits. we are working to address the drivers of radicalization that lead people to accept al qaeda's ideology. we are working to ameliorate the conditions that make it attractive. we know that it thrives where

there is alienation or perceived or real threat of deprivation. we need to address the underlying conditions and we need to do more to improve the ability of moderates to strengthen their views in opposition to violence. to counter the violent extremist propaganda, we will push back against aq's online and media activities. the center is housed at the state department, but its mission will be to use public communication to reduce radicalization by al qaeda and its affiliates in the interest of national security of the u.s. it also leads the on-line efforts through the digital outreach team, which challenges the extremists by engaging on line in arabic or somali through text video and other forms of communication.

we know that it involves more than messaging. we are working with the agency to provide programs. such as encouraging social media to generate constructive that local initiatives. we're working to support skill building and mentoring efforts and the like. we're looking at the domestic power approaches that have a track record of the effectiveness to see if those can be adapted to the current challenging circumstances. lastly, we must have the capacity to counter radicalization itself. this rehabilitation and reintegration led by the united nations into regional crime researcher at the justice institute. this initiative provides reform where policy-makers, practitioners, independent

experts and organizations can share best practices. it is an incubator of terrorists today. terrorist threats require innovative strategies, and we have seen the nature of our enemies. we need creative diplomacy and ever-stronger partnerships. it is and engaging partners of both bilaterally and multilaterally how to confront this evolving terrorist threat. i hope you agree after this review we have made a lot of progress. quite obviously, there remains a great deal to be done.

the historical context is promising. we have real success. now is not the time to let up. it is time to redouble our efforts. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> a number of documents as mentioned in the discussion seized in the raid on osama bin laden's compound have been posted online by the u.s. army's combating terrorism center. the 17 letters showed the impact of years of attacks by the u.s. and what osama bin laden saw his bumbling within his own organization. we have linked the document on our website, c-span.org/

. mitt romney continues his campaign appearances. today, he works with bob mcdonnell in portsmouth, washington -- portsmouth, virginia. on c-span2, we have reports showing that the blind man says "it would be possible for me and my family to leave for the u.s. on hillary clinton's plame." he was interviewed today. we have the hearing coming up at 2:00 p.m. on c-span2. c-span "watson to internal" goes on the road. -- "washington journal" goes on the road. they will visit with melvin alston and anthony foxx. on monday, they checked with the pope foundation chairman.

>> this weekend on "book tv," which document the war against al qaeda since 1911 in the "hunting in the shadows." saturday night at 10:00 eastern also, your questions and comments from tom brokaw live at noon eastern. "book td" every weekend on c- span2. >> back to the marine corps university discussion yesterday. looking at terrorist organizations specifically the taliban in afghanistan and the united national people's movement in nepal. this panel looks at how terrorist organizations have of all the overtime. it is about one hour. >> hello. this is a panel for ongoing -- we are pleased to have such an interesting and distinguished

said the panelists here to discuss the taliban in afghanistan and the nepali organization. to be going after such a dynamic speaker, we have to step up our game. our guest is here with the marine corps university and he is truly an expert on afghanistan, pakistan. he has written several books and numerous articles on the subject. and dr. tom marks has been doing a lot of work on special operations as well as written a number of pieces on vietnam and nepal. you wrote it in 2003, i think. for army war college.

which i just read last night. without further ado, i would like to ask the director to go first. >> good afternoon. welcome to my home, my office is right above here. i will make one comment before i say anything, i am speaking on my own behalf using my .edu account and not my .mil account. i wish i had one of those extinguished insurgencies, because i met part of this session because the taliban issued two statements as the conference is going on.

it is very much on going. first, they have never designated themselves as a terrorist organization. all individuals within those organizations have been indicated as terrorists even though the taliban has not been indicated as such. playing host to al qaeda, the taliban became part of the global war against terror. in a decade and a half, they have emerged as a stronger and more, if not effective, important military organization today. it is that adversary or a partner, it remains unclear as we speak.

it is becoming an english word. the arabic word talib means speaker or student. taliban or the arabic equivalent really means students. since 1994, the taliban islamic movement have become internationally known as part of this group that emerged seemingly from nowhere in about october of 1994. the translation of holy warriors, these are people fighting against the soviets in afghanistan since basically 1979-1992. the taliban came from politics in kandohar.

with a direct military and political support of neighboring pakistan, it is the financial aid. the leaders of the taliban claim to be members of former students and members of the group's, although they have come from different groups led by a man that is now dead. or the islamic movement.

most of them were students, they came from different variations. one of pakistan's main islamic groups [unintelligible] the taliban became the de facto government of afghanistan in december of 1996 when it seized control of the capital kabul and ousted the regime headed by the president. he was the one that was assassinated several months ago. ironically, he was chosen as the head of the peace council

to deal with the taliban. at that time, he -- it has become part of the english language, the least in america. those of you have studied islamic governments, it has a significance. it means commander of the faithful. he changed the name of afghanistan to the islamic emirates of afghanistan. most of afghanistan was more a previous enterprise and a democratic regime with power consolidated under one figure. he adapted secrecy as a means of control, and a traded that still continues today. in the united states of america, it deals with the adjective with which we speak but whose leader who have not

seen or heard of in the last 10 years. no one has seen him alive. the taliban method of governance is a centralized and democratic system that established itself in 1996. he came not through the taliban, he was there before the taliban came in. it was eastern shora, to make people part of the government. again, the reason i am emphasizing that is that it was not something that they were seeking in initially. in august of 1998, osama bin laden and the taliban refused to surrender him prompted the

united states to launch cruise missile attacks and the spear headed an international effort. they were put together at that moment, i would say. i would say that the ideology of the taliban and osama bin laden was not the same then, but there are some that do see such ideology. they struggle as an international -- i would argue

at least to the southern taliban were more nationalist. there were concerns about affairs of afghanistan and not people outside of afghanistan. this still continues. there are people in the movement that are trying anymore nationalist figures that tried have of leadership beyond, and the fact that they are hair and refusing the elements to come to surface is a struggle that we see that ongoing. the removal of the government

from power, at the leadership of the organization's fled across the border into pakistan. the last major conventional war was the operation that ended in april of 2002. you have of both of these people out. we know that he was busy making babies. beginning in 2002, and surgeons began operation and propaganda campaigns. by the way, the taliban will not refer themselves to the -- refer to themselves as the taliban. only ins ong. -- in song. and they are invoking back to the days of the 1990's, the anti-soviet groups.

they refer to themselves as the islamic americans of afghanistan they became increasingly active in the eastern and southern parts of afghanistan. the lack of cognition by for an objective and efforts in afghanistan process from uncontrolled narcotics raids and the financial support. it is the main criteria of their message. they were not so powerful, and i agree with that. by 2005, the taliban became a

nuisance and morphing into a full-fledged insurgency. and using more and more terror tactics. more leadership is either [unintelligible] but they are mostly in the northern province. these are mostly remnants of the old taliban regime from 1996-2001.

the second group, these are part of another group. there are partially in that side. and there is the loose alliance of the i don't -- [unintelligible] initially, he was not a supporter of the taliban. he was ousted and took refuge in iran. he has chunks of territory or at least influence in the northern province. also, it was not to create a nomenclature in washington, what we deal with today are not the old taliban that was destroyed in 2001.

the loose affiliation of these groups included criminals. afghan and non-afghan, they cross the boundaries. those that feel they're losing their power of being the dominant ethnic croats in afghanistan. all of these groups hotly term as a whole, they are called enemies of peace and security. since 2009, a majority of those countries have decided that reconciliation is one of the lives to the brain of the insurgencies -- bring the insurgencies into the fold of the government. officially, we are engaged in

and it began in 2001 in kandohar. there were negotiations going on, but the u.s. was not officially in an. one is basically trying to bring in the foot soldiers of the taliban, integration. my friend is sitting right there. the second is reconciliation to bring leadership into a political agreement. what the united states wants from the taliban is to denounce violence, cut ties from al qaeda, except the constitutional republic of afghanistan and

include the rights of women. this is what we have on the table, and to facilitate this, earlier this year, there was an office open in the persian gulf to facilitate that. negotiations halted because the taliban was not happy about one of the promises, which was to give them a five of their leaders or more. at least the official talks are halted. we can discuss this more in question and answer. through this democratic process, the united states in the allies usher there, it is a genuine democratic movement.

there are forces there, and people that are not affiliated taliban with affiliated -- affiliated with the taliban. india, iran, russia, uzbekistan, in that order. when we discuss with the taliban, it is not just accepting the rules of the constitution, if it is a dominant force or a force within, we will alleviate some of the concerns of the government and beyond that. as important as it may be, it unfortunately does not have

security concerns. what i will leave you with is the concern that we just last night -- president obama signed an agreement between afghanistan and the united states. it would allow us to stay and support beyond the 2014 withdrawal date. there is a problem in that and what he taliban -- the taliban want. it is not the imposition, it is the withdrawal of forces from the country. as we move forward, what we should want is that the taliban issued another statement, they are using a new operation. handlers know what language to use. the first statement came at the

second is in english. they're doing p.r. pretty well. they're announcing a winter operation. you heard a bomb attack in green village, that is where the foreigners hang around. they want to show the president obama, beside the agreement -- they signed the agreement. how it will end depends on many issues, not just u.s.- afghanistan issues, and whether we like it or not, the taliban has gone beyond that cycle.

whether they assimilate or not is the question. thank you. [applause] >> afternoon. it is a pleasure to be here. what you saw this morning, both of the speakers that led off talking about the ira and fmln highlighted two groups that could have been said to have bargained in good faith. i would like to use the -- what

was once called the communist party of nepal. it is an example of a group that chooses, as a strategic approach, to bargain faster- paced. -- bad faith. the literature that deals with the ends of conflicts of focuses on groups that seek to act as spoilers as you can see in my title. and those that benefit from conflict and a desire to keep it going. much less covered have been groups, of which we have any number of examples today, that see peace as a way to achieve strategic ends. we might include hamas,

hezbollah, is certainly the maoists. they on not spoilers and they are not interested in the peace process per se. they are interested in the change in strategic context which can be achieved and therefore can be exploited by participating in a peace process. if we ask ourselves why there is an insurgency in nepal, you have the answer right here. the land area the size of florida with twice the population, country covered with the himalayan foothills -- one

of the poorest countries in the world. socially, what is skewed in its distribution by -- wealth is skewed and its distribution by the caste system in what used to be the hindu kingdom. you have corruption that goes with emerging democracy, nepal having been a parliamentary democracy only since 1990. historically, it has never been a colony. and yet in reality, foreign aid consistently provides amounts that total between 50, or this year, almost 150% of the budget. nepal, then, is a mandate of the

international order. the result is that millions of people, who, if we look at the background of what we are negotiating, find that political opportunity structure has failed them. they want a better deal. i always, -- always in any society, politicians are the ones who articulate the structure of the better deal. leaders are not followers in any organizational setup. in the case of nepal, on the extreme left it was the radical actors of the communist party of nepal who said only by completely overthrowing what is can we deliver a new deal for

those who desire. the state, in other words, has lost legitimacy. the goal, then, to be achieved is to get a new revolutionary order. violence is used because the existing order is simply not going to turn over the keys to the kingdom, so bespea -- so to speak, to have the systems of social stratification turned upside down. this will prove critical for what we are going to discuss in a few moments. violence is necessary because the system will not give you its own demise. if it will, there is no point in continuing violence.

if we use the war college formula -- ends, ways, means -- we know the goal, a new revolutionary order. the weight -- the wys, the strategic approach, was your typical maoist people's board. i will not go into the specifics of it. what is important for us to remember is that our political action designed for the restructuring of the state functions in exactly the opposite manner that regular politics or regular warfare functions. irregular warfare, shaping, as it is called in our manuals, preparing to battle space,

overwhelmingly involves a nonviolent means, such as information warfare. once you shape the battle space, and then you come in with your violence. your regular warfare is exactly the -- irregular warfare is exactly the opposite. violence prepares the human battle space for the political effort. that human battle space, then, is both the field of contest and, of course, the meanas of this -- means of this armed political movement. it must mobilize a counter state in whatever form to challenge the state. what this movement, then, is doing is what any political

effort does. it is mobilizing the people you see here -- the few, the proud, the maoists. [laughter] be an army of one, be a man among men, be a woman among men in a society where gender relations are horribly unbalanced. the new world records -- recruits, it disciplines, it trains, it deploys, it rewards, even gives you permission to marry. what happens to those who do not want to join this new movement? if you look at the audience here, i would dare say a majority, and easy majority, have experienced what we are showing here, either in iraq,

afghanistan, colombia, southern philippines, the horn of africa. that is, a new political force interjects itself into local space. local actors, such as teachers shown here, who attempt to resist must be neutralized. once they are removed from the local political battlefield, the new political force can reshape the political opportunity structure. the maoists officially declared the people's war on the 15th of february, 1996. you have the time line in your packet. during the first five, six years of the war, they led with terror.

the systematic removal of local actors who opposed this new answer to building a better nepal. terror included not only attacking individuals, but trying to remove every element of the existing state. this a district headquarters that was bombed. but everything was attacked in nepal. much of the khmer rouge did. you have dams generating hydroelectricity destroyed simply because they were built by the government. the weapons were the standard ones we've seen all over the world. hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of rice cookers available in this asian society absolutely ied's,

devastating on soft targets such as police stations, and, of course, the police as the armed local representative and the of the state in t any society at the next target. you also had local government- armed capacity stripped away. a typical district such as the one shown here began in 1996 with 33 police stations, the blue boxes, securing 2010 people hurt by the time you got to 2003, you had three police stations with -- two police stations with the blue circles

around them remaining. out side those jurisdictions, you have the remaining two and a thousand people. -- 200,000 people. this map will prove crucial to what we will get you in a second. a police station where i did research, just 19 men. the town could be reached only by road. the police attack in the dead of night. 15 killed in fighting, three critically injured, one was able to hide. the next day, one of the country's four helicopters came in. all they could do was evacuate the casualties and abandon the post. there was no way to reman it. consequently, when i did research at there, it was completely controlled by this

new movement, the maoists. already by the middle of 2003, more than half of all police stations had been, as they called it, consolidated, which meant they had been abandoned. the only card any country has left to play at this point is its military. it's why we place so much emphasis on reading functioning, past the one we depart with at -- leaving functioning capacity when we depart with our remaining forces in afghanistan. the royal army was attacked first by the insurgents, not the other way around. the -- as if deployed, the insurgents match to the bill. one of the defining characteristics of the war in iraq and afghanistan is that it has remained overwhelmingly

small units -- platoons, for example, can man for operating basis. if you are familiar with the phil "-- film "we were soldiers," you see what we saw in vietnam, that you cannot put out of italian and survive -- put out a battalion and survive. are reinforced company of 150 found itself attacked by four main force battalions, four obsolartillery battalions, basically, the battle of the alamo. it was able to hold only because the commander of the united wo -- of the unit won their

equivalent of the medal of honor. what this battle highlighted, we know from the maoist documents, is that if you cannot overrun district capital being held here, you as an insurgency or stock a -- are stuck. at this point in time, the group controlled 70% of the population, but it could not get the remaining 30% of the population. thus the movement was faced with a conundrum. how does that take it through the red zone and score? the system gave an opening. even as you had the military becoming more, as we see in afghanistan, the same issues that have surfaced time and time again in afghanistan, and we see

surfacing in iraq -- that is, the incapacity of the political system -- surfaced to the extent where in february 2005, the only systemic figure in the country, the king, in effect declared martial law. he declared a direct loyal and appointed the prime minister's -- direct royal rule and appointed the prime ministers. you now have an extraordinary meeting occurring in which the subject of this today's meetings in effect are subject to scrutiny. what one very persuasive the faction of the maoists said is that we have led with the violence, and using the five

lines of efforts by which the people's war unfolds, we have been able to get 70% of the way to victory. and yet we find ourselves blocked by the royal nepal army. we cannot get the district capitals, we cannot get the national capital region. what we have to do, then, is advance, wait, emphasize our other lines of effort. in particular, what the king has done has given us your classic opportunity to emphasize united front activity. let us make common cause with these strange political parties -- these estranged political

parties, and the size other ways of doing things, and in effect, do a double envelopment around a state capacity. we can neutralize rna by highlighting inefficiency, at its various eras, using what has been called lawfare, and we can bring down the government. this strategy proved successful. you have united front action putting millions of people in the streets. the government collapsed in 2006 as the maoists moved into areas they did not control. a formal peace agreement was signed in november 2006 between the maoists and illegal political parties -- and the legal political parties, the

monarchy having been disestablished. on the service, it appears this is worked out much like the philippines did in the revolution after the ouster of marcos in february of 2006. in reality, what occurred was that at the original meeting, the maoists said peace provides the perfect environment for us to continue the war by other means. the key component of the peace agreement was, of course, that the military would return to barracks and the people's liberation army would enter parliamentary mechanisms would be reestablished. those that been abrogated by the king.

there were only 70,000 combatants in the people's liberation army, but you can see what showed up at the un- sponsored countrymen's. most of these were new recruits and at least 7000 were children. simultaneously, almost to the day that all of these people flooded the cantonments, half of the people's liberation army, no less than 1/3, moved laterally under orders and became the cadre of a new political action group, the young communist league. what they did, of course, was function to prepare the human battlespace for the upcoming parliamentary election. but recently, they brutalized, -- but very simply, they

replies, kidnapped, killed anyone opposed to voting for the maoists. they ship to the human terrain and even figures in the press who courageously tried to cover this found themselves murdered or, in effect, run out of town. the result, of course, is when the elections were held, the maoists, not surprisingly, favoriteel day-lewis' candidate in "gangs of new york," swept the election. how could this continue? with apologies to the straight g -- stray graphic, i could find out from the google search nothing on the person shown here. they had so invested in the peace process that by the time elections were held in 2008 and

the maoists, not surprisingly, emerged victorious because the opposition parties which had once dominated had been decimated, the position was advanced that with responsibility will come adjustment to democratic 13. that is -- democratic routine. that is, the maoists will in good faith participate in the peace process. in reality, they did not think of the sort. they continue to shape the battle it we have a situation where the no. 2 in the maoist movement is the sitting prime minister. he makes no decisions without consulting the party. in conclusion, we have a situation which is even more extraordinary.

the debate's going on within the maoists pit two figures on the left of this trio against the figure on the right. that is, the two figures on the left, the head of the party and the head of the government, tell the main radical, why do you keep claiming we have to complete the revolution by over the violence? we now control of the state. we control all organs of the state, and anyone who opposed us has been eliminated. leave well enough alone and, given a short period of time, we will write into the new constitution all of our evolutionary goals. he says, however, you are

calling for the oldest trapped there is. our only grows through the barrel of a gun. -- power only flows through the barrel of a gun but we must sweep them all and then dictate the terms of the peace agreement. this is quite a different kettle of fish from what we see when you have organizations that do in fact evidence of willingness to compromise and a willingness to actually end armed conflict. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. two very good presentations. and now i think we are going to start doing question and answers, but we will do them in a slightly different way than has been done in previous panels.

whoever gets the microphone first gets to speak. [laughter] >> i would like to, first, thank mcu, and the likely panel. you briefly touched on the strategic partnership, is seeing signs that president obama and president karzai, and the taliban's reaction to that. i'd like to make a brief comment, going back to the importance of the partnership agreement, that there are two scenarios that they are

analyzing the importance of the partnership agreement, in terms of pushing the talent and to come to the negotiation table -- pushing the taliban to come to the negotiation table, a particularly on at the pakistani side. there was a time when the americans would leave, say, by 2014. but now this partnership agreement that has been signed it will commit the u.s. to remain engaged in afghanistan for another 10 years. this would probably push the pakistanis, who are in a way controlling the taliban, to push the taliban to come back to the negotiation table per se and reach some sort of agreement, and if that agreement would be made, what sort of agreement with that need to be acceptable -- would that be to be acceptable?

>> i wish i knew it gets to that, what the pakistani -- i wish i knew the answer to that, what the pakistanis are doing with that talent and. -- the taliban. the estimates the united states to recognize afghanistan as a major non-nato ally. believe it or not, pakistan as the same -- pakistan is the same. their agreement does not have specific issues on the basic thing whenever something like that happens. a couple of provisions -- one is that those bases will not be used against others, and so on. we are still in the negotiation process. but yes, the idea is that we stay committed. the announcement of 2014, the

taliban will just wait it out and then we have it. afghanistan, you have some the partners -- not all the countries are in isaf. you have a government that will be selected because there will be an election and the constitution is expected before 2014, controlling certain areas of the country. there is an afghan national army controlling specific areas. the taliban merged into a power within the areas of the south. that is one scenario. now whether pakistan will accept that -- pakistan wants to stay in the future of afghanistan. pakistan's policy seems to say anything but indian influence. there may be a give-and-take. we hear a much better

relationship at least right now a good swing again -- it could swing again -- between new delhi and islamabad. the talent at -- the taliban officially refuses to speak to them to they call them a puppet. if they do that, there are a lot of things on the table. you are right, it allows as a foundation of which to -- over which to reengage them in a scenario where you can beat us, but what other aspects of their, what do the regional countries do? what did the other afghan elements do? it is not just about pashtun. if they feel that taliban getting more power, with their

ideas through the ballot or a bad deal, --, whether it is through a ballot or a deal, date and will not sit still. you have more clarity on specifics. one thing that would break the taliban's resolves a longer- term, specific, clear achievable goal. thank you. >> dr. tarzi, you mentioned that mullah omar has been designated commander of the faithful. could you elaborate on what that means in terms of what that taliban will accept in mullah ?mar's future role

is it possible for him to abdicate that title, or do the people who designate him as such say that was then, this is now and he does not have to have that role? is the expectation that he, or someone with that title, will be in the leadership role of the faithful in afghanistan? >> thank you. the reason we have not seen mullah omar play in a positive way is nobody has seen them, and as you have seen in the past few years, both the pakistani set in able to get some of the leadership of the talent and -- taliban and get them in jail -- omarot saying mullah would be put in jail -- but the hosts control a lot of the movement.

there are elements within the taliban that are looking for leadership beyond mullah omar. i don't think he is essential in the sense that he is somebody who is really not there. he still is alive. it gives him more power, because nobody has seen him. if there is a deal made, he becomes a guardian of the religious aspect of the country. we should not forget the military -- government of islamic republic of afghanistan -- a very islamic institution. there could be something at there that gives him the title to oversee religion. with the overseas s -- whether

he oversees shias or not and gives them a say in the constitution -- how would he look at? beyond women, there is the issue of the shia. he seems to be much softer on the shias. perhaps that could be the umbrella under which he works, or people die. naturally or i naturally. > -- naturally or unnaturally. [laughter] >> thank you, sir. joint staff. what signpost can we look for to see if they are negotiating in good faith or not? are there any lessons from nepal we can take from that? along those lines, at what point are they along for a our enemy and a group -- but they no

longer our enemy and a group that we are trying to create healing with? thank you. >> you want to interpret that part -- >> let me get this straight -- what you are asking for is signposts that they are cooperating, right? ok. >> i think that plays right into one of the key areas of research -- that is, your normal metrics are no longer useful. for example, violence is, in fact, way down. it is way down because a silent numbers are way up -- because

asylum numbers are way out. people have fled. when you look at for signposts, you have a traditional metrics such as participation in the system. far more important is being willing to get rid of your militia, the ysl, to be willing to allow student organizations to function as something other than armed pressure groups. this is very similar, when you think about it, to the situation in lebanon or gaza or other areas. you are not engaging in normal politics and therefore cannot use normal metrics if you are allowing political forces to feel that they're on armed elements -- to field their own armed elements. that is the biggest one, the willingness to participate in the political process, as well as the economic and social

processes, without fielding sub rosa armed forces. the second one would be to enable the state, of which the maoists are the head, without continuing to carry out, execute a perilous system that funds the political party, the maoists -- that is, extortion and criminality are at an all-time high in nepal. but these executed by party organs. you have several nepals functioning, and what has to decide what one is going to be a part of. >> i think we have had to come to the end. thank you all very much. [applause]

>> if you could all be back here by 1500, please. 3:00. we will continue that. -- we will continue then.

>> a number of documents seized home, binear's raid on laden's house has been declassified. they showed the impact of years of attacks by the united states and what was, bin laden saw as bungling by his organization and terrorist allies. >> bin laden was a strategically irrelevant operator with disparate of this. -- outlets. we knew bin laden personally was involved in communications to control zawahiri, we knew he was making about reach early on to

al-shabab, involved in these types of things. as a consequence, and no surprise when you're talking about a global ideology, bin laden was relevant. >> how counterterrorism and national security change in the years of osama bin laden. see what they have to say on the c-span video library, all archived and searchable. >> white house coverage continues at 1:15 easton, when mitt romney makes a stop with the virginia gov. bob mcdonnell. c-span2 will be live at 2:00 eastern with a congressional hearing on the case of the blind chinese activist seeking protection in the embassy and is seeking to return to the u.s. with his family.

the commission will look at the history of the situation and possible solutions. that is at 2:00. every night this week, while congress is in recess, american history on c-span3. tonight, civil rights music, donald rumsfeld, and world war ii. >> saturday, literary life with the booktv on c-span2, with oklahoma university president and former senator david boren on his "letter to america," and galileo, copernicus, and others with the history of science collection. on c-span3, tour the oklahoma city bombing memorial. a look at african-american life in 1920's oklahoma. native american artifacts at the

oklahoma history center. content vehicles explore the history and literary life of cities across america. >> is college education worth the cost of student loans? university of maryland economics professor peter morici says it may not be. he has written an editorial about it, and "washington journal" talked about it this morning. host: thank you for being with us. guest: nice to be with you. host: on average, what will students owe? guest: only about $25,000.

if you go to a liberal arts college and your family is of decent means, even get close to six figures if you work at it. the bottom line, though, is that graduates are not earning enough money to reasonably service their loans in many majors but there is a great span across which graduates earned money. some only are $25,000 a year. it is hard to service the loan on that and pay rent, get an automobile, and so forth. host: student loan debt has surpassed credit card debt and auto loan debt. debt is up 25% over the last decade. americans 60 and older 0 $36 billion. many americans, even at age 50, are still paying back the loans. guest: absolutely. they should have long ago been retired. we have the folks behind beit collection agencies, we of the

social security checks -- we have the social security checks being discarded. host: you are at a public institution, but how does the university of maryland, penn state university, compared to princeton and yale private institutions? guest: i don't know if the fair comparison is nyu and university of maryland, although we are intense rivals with business schools. princeton, columbia, so forth, they have a very large endowments. and there is potential running potential of a business school graduate, my institution -- they are in good shape. it is the folks who go to small liberal arts colleges, where there is not a large endowment. they can rack up a heavy debt and often they don't get a major

that leads to something substantial on the other end. there the debt is outsize because there is not as much financial aid could and the earning capacity is lower. a very good, tangible example. go to a small college in western maryland and rack up a good sized debt if you become a reporter, but you will not end up at "the wall street journal" 2 start date you w -- to start. you will wind up at a small paper and make $25,000 to start. those folks can not service their debt. lots of college graduates do things like selling cellphones. they tend to be folks who got a degree in psychology or something of that nature. host: we will talk in just a

moment with students from a technical college who pose questions to peter morici. as you meet with students, and he will meet with an incoming college freshmen, and he or she is trying to think of our profession, what date and what to do, but also make an income -- what date and what to do but also to make an income. guest: if you like mathematics and you are good at it, move in the direction of finance or engineering. if you are good with language, everybody wants to do what you and i do, be on tv. but there are very good career paths on the other side of the camera. both university of maryland and my home institution offer good technical training in those areas. one of my producers when i am on a rival network -- second guys, i should say -- study in the

communications department but to be on the other side of the cameras community colleges, where these students are, there are significant opportunities that don't cost money. it is not as glamorous as being an attorney, in the eyes of your parents, but it gives you is reasonable job and a good lifestyle and so forth. host: a graduate in petroleum engineering gets $125,000 a year. with a degree in psychology, $25,000, $30,000. guest: what good is a degree in psychology, sociology, the social sciences without additional graduate training? most of these people end up in something where you don't need a college education to do the job. today they require a couple of

years of college or college diploma is simply because they can get the bsomebody like that selling cellphones. a high-school education is plenty for that, and a lot of the graduates end up in this jobs were they compete school graduates but don't earn enough money to service their loans. the president says he wants more college graduates. i think that is wrong could need more college graduates with specialized skills, we don't need as many as we have right now. we have many with diplomas who don't need them, and putting a lot of people in my classroom who don't want to be there. host: you can join the conversation on our twitter page or facebook page or send us an e-mail. the cspan bus in north carolina will be there for the next seven

days. questions for peter morici. >> good morning. guest: good morning, nathan. >> i was wondering if you felt, as an educator, that making the focus of education, does that not detract from having students and the market in fields of science that involve more exploitative and, you knkow me -- does that attrac -- detract economically in the long run from learning for learning's sake? guest: learning for learning's stake is important, but can we afford half the population doing that? i don't think so but there is a

balance to be struck. there are a lot of liberal arts institutions who spew two notions. we can do things with less cost and their needs to be vocational education. people need to earn a living, and i'm emphasizing that because it is apparent that a lot of our college graduates cannot earn a living, at least one that is commensurate with the cost of education, as computed by the debt they have. we have to have a balance here. guest: it certainly would be helpful, and many colleges do that. business schools do that effectively. most institutions do have networking programs, they try to bring employers on campus. but you cannot change the fundamental talked illustrate if you think of the kinds of jobs

we associate -- does not change the fundamental calculus. if you think of the kinds of jobs we associate and the graduates, there are not enough of those jobs to go around. if you have too many students services, it cancels out and it raises the cost of education. one of the problems in higher education is that we just stuck to our knitting teaching courses and not providing student services. host: there is good debt and bad debt, as you know as an economics professor. guest: maybe we would have fewer seats in college. we need a more effective job done in the high schools. in the 1950's, a high-school

graduate you could count to be able to write a decent s.a. and have some mastery of basic mathematics and so forth, which would eat with them to do a lot of decent jobs in society -- would equip them to do a lot of decent jobs in society. emerged thatsense american high schools were not doing their job. test scores indicated that. and employers started using a couple of years of college as a proxy to the reality is, in order to get through a couple of years of college successfully, you had to have a good high school education, and if you did not, colleges did a lot of remedial work. so much emphasis has been placed on standards of learning of some kind. everybody gets phonics until it comes out of their ears and as basic work in english and so forth. there's not enough done about

treating the whole personality and providing some level of liberal education at the high- school level than was once the case. host: our guest, peter morici, has authored or coauthored 18 books. he teaches at the university of maryland, professor of economics. al is on the phone from albany, new york. caller: good morning, c-span2 good morning, professor morici. i agree with most everything you are saying. i'm the father of a son who recently graduated from oswego. he wants to be a teacher. because the job market is really pathetic in the northeast and new york especially for teachers, he will go back in the spring for his master's at oswego. fortunately for him, his

mother and i have kicked in can help to pay for his education, so she only came out with $2,200 of debt. the master's program is on his dime. i will be 64 this year. i work with my hands. i work for a major communications company. i still climb telephone poles and do a lot of the grunt work. unfortunately, i think at the high school level, we have had this attitude that if you want to work with your hands as a mechanic, your son will be a dum-dum and it will take you from the potential bill gates of the world -- you are looked on as not quite there, you know? that is part of the problem. there is no vocational courses

in high school where kids get dirty. i put a lot of to make patients line -- a lot of communications lines in the universities, and i notice there is a lot of foreign students here. those students come here, they are paid for by the government. those colleges want those kids. conversely, i notice that a lot of the board of trustees, the presidents and so on, these are million-dollar bonus babies. i think that is also contributing to the cost. host: i will stop you there. what is tuition for the suny system? caller: at oswego, high 20s, low 30s per year. guest: i think that is an all-in number. by the way, my younger brother

is a graduate of suny-oswego and a shop teacher in suburban detroit these days. i know all the places you speak of a very well. one of the mistakes college graduates are making an out is they are going to graduate school because they cannot find a job. that makes sense if you do something intelligent in terms of what you take to get her master's degree in and so forth. but there are a lot of more or less continuing general studies degrees out there, where they taken money and tell you about broad opportunities and name a few graduates who have done well, but finding one of those jobs is not particularly hi -- but the odds of finding one of those jobs is not particularly high. with education in new york, a master's degree is required for permanence of a patient, and if a school district hires your son, he will not have to go to school at night and will be able to pay off student loans if he

was not too aggressive about how many he took and he will be ok. however, you run into perverse incentives. my wife is a graduate of baruch college and she has a master's degree, and as she followed me around the country, her master's degree was a liability, because the bank bought cheaper bachelor's degrees. -- because they want cheaper- list agrees. generally speaking, colleges and universities that receive state subsidies, the legislature does not ask where they come from. we have to be careful about clamping down to much on admitting for instance, because a lot of them come here and are very, very bright, and they stay and contribute to our society and they are willing to do things that american children are not, because american

children have it so good it is very hard to get young people these days interested in studying engineering. engineering colleges, outside of software, have lots of foreign students. it is a complex puzzle. another discussion. his: with al's situation, son going to graduate school -- guest: no, i don't think we should get involved in regulating higher education with the number of thomas granted -- diplomas credit fact, i think a lot agree should be easier to get rid but we should -- law degree should be easier to get. but we should start educating parents and students about the time they will need to work off their debts, so they will put

pressure on universities to lower their costs. universities are a little like general motors was before the runch came from foreign competition. guest: let me give you a tangible example of that. for eyears we had in high school is something called distributive indication. those programs, because of the standards of learning movement, have been decimated. we used to get out of those places a lot of retail management and people who could run small businesses. instead, today people take a general program. you go to college and get a bachelor's degree and are somewhat more skilled, but i don't know if you need a bachelor's degree to be a

manager at wal-mart. growing up in new york city, a lot of people did the buying and selling of the rag trade and were just ordinary high school graduates. today you have to get a bachelor's degree to sell dresses? i am not denigrating that, but that is absurd. that is the point we have gotten too. host: one of the students joining us from asheville, north carolina. >> good morning, dr. morici. i have a question relating to employment numbers these days. we have 12.8 million people unemployed as of february, four workers essentially looking for every job. do you think that some students

who have more interdisciplinary education have a better chance to adapt and eve of in a changing environment for economic reasons? -- and evolve in a changing environment for economic reasons? would it be beneficial to have people with critical thinking schools that a good liberal arts education is founded on so that we have innovative thinkers out there banks solving problems like global climate change, food and water shortages, even energy crises? guest: well, food and water shortages, global climate change, and things of that nature, will actually be solved by people with highly technical degrees, and not folks in french literature. it is important that people of critical thinking skills and flexibility, so that they can acquired new skills on their own. that is what most of us do. we don't go back to turning so much as we acquire skills on our own trade with the access to own trade with the access to