>> tonight -- >> i don't regard this as just a biography of lyndon johnson. i want each book to examine a kind of political power in america. this is a kind of political power, seeing what a president can do in a.m. time of great crisis, how he gathers all around and what does he do to get legislation moving? that is a way of examining power in time of crisis. i want to do this in full. .

>> so it's up to us to coming to. we're going to put together a permanent campaign structure in the past we put it in for seven, eight, nine months before the election. after election day we went on our merry way. outreach to partners in the civil rights community and the african-american community and bringing people together and will continue to do that in between elections so we'll be able to move toward electoral politics to advocacy and be able to hold those accountable. democrat or republican. >> much do you plan to spend this election cycle and are you giving less to democrats or spending more on issues on the ground and oriented campaigns

instead of giving directly to democrats? >> i'm fascinated with your fix asian on who we're going to talk to and how much we'll spend. look. we can out spend as you do by multiples. 20-20/1. that's not issue here. we're going to talk to people and continue to go after those people on the ground. educate them. register them and work with our allys in the african-american community to register voters then educate them and get them to the poles on election day and we'll use our super pact in a way unlike other people are using like karl rose super pack is used to do a barrage of negative adds against anybody they don't like. we'll not be doing those negative type adds but using that money to talk to nonunion workers because in the past we could don't that. >> does that mean less money

going to individual candidates to democrats so say others? >> there's a couple of kind of candidates and there's real friends and acquaintances and there's enemies. enemies obviously aren't going to get any money. acquaintances will probably get less and friends more help. >> that's a night or a nice lead in, for wisconsin. on tuesday. can't interesting and this is a big thing for labor and your strategy taking on governor scott walker in a recall. is it interesting. >> we've done a couple of test runs already. >> well in wisconsin though. the candidate that seems to get labor support is not doing well in the democratic primary where as milwaukee primary has had a rocky relationship with labor. what's the stakes now for

wisconsin. >> whichever one wins everyone will coming to and support them. you can say whatever you want. just like no one blanched at all when michelle back man backed mitt romney who was stayed to be the next thing to evil a few days earlier. most of the labor supported one. some laborers supported other and after the election they'll take out i think scott walker. he's had billions of interest. they brought things in and he's still very, very unpopular. he is permanently unpopular because he took on and a tacked workers and rather than creating jobs that he told the population he was going to do. the other thing is the last time we took out two of those republican sen senators and you should remember this. the four races that occurred.

an obama won that state by 4%. these four senators won their senate seat bias an equal number. they were safe senate seats we took two of them out and the total vote was on those four senate seats. we had little over 50%. they got 50 plus in two seats and we have more in the other seats so in the highest poor performing districts they lose two seats and barely hold on to one and another wins. you'll see a couple more senators go by wayside this time and what you'll see is hopefully a change of attitude by the senators that are there on both sides of the aisle to say they sent us here to create jobs and fix the economy. not to make war on workers but not to demonize them and take everything from them. >> you saying wisconsin is not

an important test for the labor union? >> everything we do is an important test. we just, if they lose in ohio with the citizen's veto we're dead. everything is an important test because it has real-life consequences for workers. that's why it's important. >> what would it mean if governor walker hangs on to the governors hip. he would be a debilitated governor for the next two-years in office and finished in the next time he runs. >> what would it say about president obama's prospects of winning in wisconsin. >> i don't know it would say anything. they're going to spend more money in wisconsin than they'll do in most other states. >> energy bolden lawmakers to strip collective bargaining rights. >> quite the contrary. would you like to be in the fight of your life spending 25,

35 million to hold on a seat you were supposed to have for four years and you lose a majority in the senate? would that make you bold? not if your sign and rational. >> we talked about workers rights and the national relation's board is created to protect worker's rights and over see organizing elections and settle disputes between employers and employees. you've been there for what president obama has appointed to the board. wondering now if you're concerned board is week ended by recent challenges that would help ease union organizing. >> those challenges lost. it was expected. the republican party said mitt romney on down they're against

workers and trade union and it's not about fairness or enforcing the law but making us weaker so we can't fight for workers so we won that it was a vote on the senate to take away those rights. every single democratic senator voted for us. >> the challenge and one republican senator voted with us. lisa from alaska and we appreciate her support with us. so are we where i had about it? it's a constant. they've been fighting us forever. the thing i'm more worried about is a guy like terrance flynn who is on the board. the supplemental first report said it was given improperly giving information to mitt romney's advisors and the recent thing was a supplemental bill. not only did he give away information but he traded information to romney advisors

to help him get confirmed so he was given something for value and giving his votes for value and that sure sounds close the criminality if it isn't. >> i did see the report and it was one form romney advisor named in the report. >> give us context for this. >> it's one of the two republican members. >> don't move away. >> improperly given information inside information that violated the ethics and not a single republican on the hill has said anything about it. not one. republicans have been quiet about it. >> he hasn't resigned either. if that had been labor person they would have been doing hand stands in front of fox news 24/7 but not a word. >> so let me provide context. he's one of the republican members on the board accused of disclosing internal board information to former board

members and there's been two reports on the matter. >> both of them had said so. >> do you think president obama should call for his nomination? >> i think he's been improper and what he's done violated the ethic rules and he shouldn't be there. he's shown he's no longer capable of neutral decisions and that's what they're suppose to be. an independent agency that tax facts and tries cases and decides who wins under law. when you have someone committed the other side and bias and giving inside information illegally. it's like a judge talking to a lawyer in the middle of the case. that calls the whole system into question. he hasn't come out and said i'm sorry. change the subject little bit. staying on the issue of workers

right and unions rights to exist. huge issue for you guys was employee for choice act. it didn't obviously work out but one of the major arguments for people to support union members to support president obama four years ago is he would be the union's friend and push the act. a lot for people in labor it was a disappointment it didn't get a much of a hearing in congress in their view and there's some people that think the president didn't push hard enough for it if that was your argument four years ago, why should they come back and fight again? and go out to vote and canvas and volunteer if it didn't work out? >> that's only one reason. we're not monolithic. we don't say this is the reason we're there and we're not likenra saying you do anything against guns we're against you. there was a multitude of

reasons. his view on the economy. not just a one percent. do we have disagreements with him? >> absolutely. we have disagreements. done things differently. absolutely. but here's what i also know. when you put all the facts together and romney is here and barack obama is here. romney doesn't get off the ground and the president is way up here standing for work people. so it's going to be, there will be people who say i won't photovote for this president for this reason or that. but there's also people that will vote for him for that reason. >> you think that issue will be resurrected in the second term? >> we just had a vote because of those issues. the national labor board came out with rules that will make elections fairer and faster.

employers use for years and union busters use for years to get rid of it. that's what the vote was over. they didn't want any changes of the labor laws. they like the broken system so in favor of employers workers don't get affair shot. it's a priority. we continue to look for labor law because it's good for the country. here's why collective bargaining is important. our economy is 72% driven by consumer spending. consumers can't spend. they can't create demand if they don't have money in their packet. and the link between productivity and wages that used to exist is broken it's broken because not enough people have collective bargaining so all the money that used to get shared with workers, now goes to the top one percent who buy one car

or in mitt romney's case. 7 cars. but workers if they get a chance to get more of the well that they produce they will have more money to create demand. that demand will create an economy that grows. now they're trying take it away from public employees and that's why scott walker is in hot water and a number of others are. >> we have, i've had conversations with the president and with his staff, his cabinet about things of that sort. yeah.

>> what's your impression that what happened an obama second term? >> think he's looking to create jobs in a tax system that works for everyone that's fair and trying to get people, save people's pensions and improve on healthcare. all the things that workers need right now and were the basis of the middle class dream. jobs being one of them. >> only seven minutes left and go ahead. >> would you like to see president obama pull through the keystone pipeline there's been division about that. he earlier apposed it because of environmental reasons. i know many are affiliate unions have been divide about whether or not they want to see this pipeline and it would create jobs. where do you stand on that >> they're not divide on the pipeline but how it is done. i think we're all unanimous by saying we should bailed pipeline but have to do it consistent

with all environmental standards and think we can work that out i do and we're for that happening. >> has president obama given you insurance? >> i haven't talked to him about the pipeline directly. >> the republicans were using that as a talk point saying he's antijobs and antigetting energy for the country? >> if they would have had any credibility about job creation. they might have been able to capitalize but they don't have credibility on job creation because they're taughting the same identical policies that god got us into the mess. let me go back a second on job creation. george bush came in the office and the economy was humming. when george bush left office he had fewer jobs than the day he came into office. the only president in recent history with less job as the the end o his term than when he began. he did every policy they're not

advocating. deregulation. tax cuts for the rich. they're proposing more tax cuts and the same identical policy. they'll take us right back into a recession if not a depression. so if that had credibility and here's our jobs program and any normal mainstream economists would say yeah that could work. that had credibility but they doevenlt it didn't stick. >> they have a couple of days out of it. i can stick him with the pin a bit. it wasn't major. >> as you assess the election and think about the role of the union's labor union will play in mobilizing voters you talked about union workers and now you're looking at nonunion as well. is there an enthusiasm problem with the base, with people that not only are union workers but then i assume ya'll target

people that are more swing voters as you look at nonunion? >> we will tend to work on that. we have 182 days from today. >> why do you think that still exists? >> i think that exists with anybody. any candidate. you still have to remind them of what's there and who you're running against so there's some. we'll come back to it and work on it and some we probably won't get and there's others we didn't get last time and we'll come out and vote. our members are pretty smart and savvy. they'll look at both candidates and say this guy, stands for this. this guy stands for that. who's the best for me and my family and when you look at those facts obama wins hands down for working people. >> mitt romney said in a speech he was asking the public are you better off than years ago? have you saved enough for retirement do. you have a job?

for union members that say no to at least some of those questions what will you tell ones that might be on the offense? >> first of all, it's sort of a false choice. what are the policies he's advocating going to make you better or worse. he subscribes to ryan's budget. he would give a 4.5 billion dollar more tax cut to the rich than george bush did. that didn't work out well for us. our wages are there and you go into a recession. it's not saying is obama better. george bush with good times lost jobs. barack obama during the worst recession in the world created several million and imagine what would have hand if the republican congress, house and senate instead of fighting against him would have said let's get together and fix the economy and put america back to work. imagine what a great job we

could have done and how further advanced this recovery would be right now. that's what we're asking everyone to do. put this stuff a side and think about america. create jobs so that our kids and our grandkids can have a job to buy a house and retire with some security and we can have a quality public education system where everyone does little better. that's what's at stake here and you have two different views. one view of mitt romney that says give everything to the people at the top and some will fall out of their pockets and everyone can grab some of that that's on the way down. that doesn't work you have to create good job as the the top. >> final question. >> what do you think should happen if the president's healthcare bill is overturned. what do you think that will do policy sense and politically. >> i hope it isn't we've tried for 100 years to get healthcare

started. that bill isn't perfect. i'll be the first admit that but it's a great start. people like mitt romney's kids are on his healthcare bill now because of his kids. those things help a lot of people. we've made some mistakes and we ought to say we need a public option. remember 94 percent of our healthcare markets in this country are highly concentrating means there's one or two companies in the no competition the public option, would it create competition and forced them to create, work things and driven price down. the other thing is we shouldn't have conceded to not using the buying federal government power to drive down price. everyone in the world does that. every company does that. you use you're buying power to

get the best deal you can and we have given that away and we need to change that and bring that back. i think if it were overturned i think it would stand a country on it's head. healthcare would be in chaos and you would see a lot of people get hurt in the process. >> we have to end it and leave it there. richard. thanks for being on news makers. having me on. >> and we're back with our reporters. peter wallsten of the "washington post" and melanie, what stood out for you? >> i heard demanding terrance lin's resignation and even talked about the president should resign. saying he wants the president to call for his resignation should also create a bit of chaos.

a bit of stir in washington if that happens and peter what did you hear that stood out? discussion the about wisconsin is interesting though it felt he kept wanting to down play what the results there might mean. that shows it's a real possibility scott walker could prevail despite tens of millions of dollars being thrown at him by the unions and i think the conventional view is that if walk erwins that is a huge set for the labor movement. practically speaking their spending a lot of money there that they could be spending on race.resident >> he seems to down play what it would mean about the public opinion about labor unions. whether or not it would energy bodeen other politicians to take them on in other states he said it wouldn't but i think a lot of people believe it actually

would. >> did you get a real sense of relevance of unions from the discussion. he made predictions and said if the healthcare law is over turned it could set things in motion. what does that say about the way that the predictions are being made about exlegislations and supreme court decisions? >> well their relevance is always the amount of money they can spend in an election year in getting someone elected. i thought he was vague in his discussion of their new tactics. on the one hand they're going all grass roots. i don't really know what that means in terms of how that's going to fit into the carefully managed and orchestrated, get out the vote operation being created by obama campaign. often times unions can be a great way to reach out to working class vo