>> when was the next time they had some kind of a confrontation? >> the next time the action had a conversation was probably at the democratic convention in 1960, where president kennedy was there. >> how has he been in there? >> lyndon b. johnson was 62. -- 19th -- 52. i did that very quickly. bobby kennedy was born in 29. >> there was a great deal of difference in age. what have lyndon johnson done until the time he was selected? what had robert kennedy done? >> at the time that johnson starts running against jack kennedy for the 1960 democratic

nomination, he has been the senate majority leader for six years. he is in the greatest majority leader in history. he made the senate work. he introduced his own bills. it was the center of governmental and ingenuity and energy in washington. he was the most powerful democrat in the country. they called him the second most powerful man in the country, second to president eisenhower. for the last two years he had been running his brothers. presidential campaign, robert kennedy. why? >> well, he left mccarthy's committee eventually. there was a time, and he is frank to admit it, when he

believed something had to be done about the communist conspiracy in this country and that mccarthy was the only person doing it. considering a large part of this book is about how bobby kennedy change, it is interesting. it is an evolution. all that happened was i got older. i do not think that is all that happens. he changed as a human being. you see something quite different. when he was a young prosecutor for first mccarthy and then the racket committee, the liberals -- you see newsreels of him questioning witnesses in this way, he was a very hard nosed prosecutor. >> go back to the 60 convention.

why did john f. kennedy offer lyndon johnson? the vice-president see? >> nobody knows what is in somebody's mind. he had, in retrospect i think that john f. kennedy saw it from the beginning. he was quite a brilliant politician. he had to have lyndon johnson. in 1956, the south was not solid for the democrats. eisenhower had taken five of the 11 confederate states. one of them was taxes. -- texas. new democrat was going to win the presidential election without carrying texas. he had to have johnson. >> lyndon johnson ran against him for the nomination. why did he lose?

>> that is one of the to me. all his life, the one quality about lyndon b. johnson was his willingness to try as hard as he could for everything. here he has wanted to president of his life. lyndon johnson only had one goal in his life, to be president. in 1958, he seems perfectly positioned to become president. he has been the majority leader. he has all the senators in his camp. he has passed the first several rights camps in history. -- civil rightsin 1958, he calls seven or eight of his top lieutenants to his ranch in says i'm destined to be president.

i was meant to be president. you all know that. i am going to be president. campaign to begin. suddenly, he does not run. he does not give any orders. he does not want to speak anywhere. he's terribly indecisive. this nomination. >> why? >> people who knew him best say, like john connally later became secretary and treasury secretary of the navy, a great politician, once had him down to his ranch for three days. those interviews were fascinating. he was close to lyndon johnson during those early years. it comes to my guest house. he had a great-grandson in florida.

-- great ranch. he comes up 530 in the morning. he knocks on my door. he had a stable of quarter were says. -- quarter horses. we went over to the railing. we would sit on the fence and he would talk to me. i asked him that question andhe said, that the one thing about lyndon johnson was that he was afraid to fail. why? the one thing that was most important to him, his father had been a politician for a while and had failed. the family was plunged not only to bankruptcy by being the laughingstock of their town. and he was senate majority leader, he said he learned to never let him fail on a vote. never.

>> you said there are two people who have not talked to you. one is bobby baker. how hard did he work? the other was bill moyers. >> bobby baker years ago made repeated efforts to get him to talk to me. he did not think much of my book. he does say complimentary things about my books. , bill moyers. he has said complimentary things about my book but he says he does not want to talk about lyndon johnson which was understandable. it was said he was going to do his own book. i do not think he said that for many years. you have to ask him why. >> what did you miss because of these two men? what have you missed?

>> you miss a lot from both of them. he has written a very revealing memoir. bob baker went to jail. there is so much testimony about him at the time in the book. you are able to put together most of the picture. i do not think it's another johnson person important to me that did not talk to me. i am sure there is somebody. i talked to scores and scores of people. whenever you cannot talk to someone, you missed them.

>> how much did billy moyers' lack of talking about this have to do with the things like wiretapping? >> you have to ask him that. there are so many memos. i think i spent probably three months going through all the memos. he was johnson's aid. you see a lot of what he was doing. he is a very keen observer of people. you like to have been able to talk to him. >> go back to the relationship between lyndon johnson and bobby kennedy. >> and his brother said that lyndon johnson was afraid to fail. most people who know him best said he was afraid to feel like his father.

he was afraid the red for the -- that if he ran for presidency, he would fail. that i think is why he did not run. >> how badly did he beat lbj? the final tally was 806-409. that is not a realistic tally. when they got to wyoming, he did not have the necessary votes. , kennedy. the johnson strategy -- it would have worked --if only he can keep from getting -- kennedy the majority of the first ballot. in the back room, kennedy comes close. but they wanted lyndon johnson. he did not have the necessary votes. the chairman promised teddy

kennedy that if it comes down to his delegation, he will give the last five votes of that delegation. see it is coming down to wyoming. walter cronkite said there is teddy kennedy hurrying across the floor. he is hurrying over to the wyoming delegation. you see him saying something to the chairman this as wyoming casts 15 votes for john f. kennedy. after kennedy has the majority, a number of states did. -- switched to him. it was close that he was going to make its. on the first ballot. >> you said they were both ruthless. explain what that means. give us examples. >> it is always easier to do it with lyndon johnson.

--nson's worthlessness ruthlessness throughout his life was striking. in the last volume, he world and destroyed the senate career of earl clemens by forcing him to vote on an earlier version and medicare. -- of medicare. they knew that if he voted for, he would be destroyed because the ama had been very active in the state. johnson says unless i need your vote, i will not call on you. he really knows that he needs it. when it is a tie vote and he sends bobby baker to clemens, he said the sweat was pouring down his face.

he had to give it. johnson had to win. he had to win. robert kennedy had to win also. it is quite fascinating. and johnson realizes the key to the campaign are the western states. johnson thinks he has them. kennedy thinks that they sent the younger brother out there. he is the youngest. , ted kennedy. he is such a good politician that he starts to wind it. -- to win the western states. bobby goes out to reinforce this. johnson realizes what is happening. he said the guy who went out there for johnson first said robert kennedy had put the bridal on the delegates.

once bobby kennedy put the bridle on, people knew they could not take it off. >> go to the selection of lbj as vice president, a running mate for john f. kennedy. there is a huge amounts on your about the back and forth of bobby kennedy's involvement. did he really tried to stop his brother from putting lbj on the ticket? >> he tried to get this. -- to get lyndon johnson not to accept the offer of the vice- president say. there is no question about. kennedy won the night before with 860 votes. he chose not to accept the offer of the vice presidency. kennedy has won the night before with a hundred six votes on the ballot. the next morning, this is on the hotel. the two suites are in the back corner of the hotel.

>> i have to stop you for a moment. did you go to those suites? >> yes. >> how long ago? >>it has been renovated. it was not productive. you cannot tell what they had been like. >> this chapter of my book is called the back stairs. in the morning, jack kennedy comes down. they do not want the reporters to see him. he comes down the back stairs. he offers lyndon johnson, and he has a conversation. whenever there only to people in the room, you really cannot say as a historian you know what happens.

one gives one version and one gives the other. we know what happened after the meeting. johnson calls and his three closest advisers, john connally, bobby kennedy, and junior. -- bobby bakerhe says kennedy offered me the vice president. that would johnson says. kennedy goes back upstairs. there is a group of northern those who know they can count votes. kennedy walks in the room. he says he has not said he will accept it. it looks like he is going to. he has a picture of this very moment. lawrence reaches out his hands. he's a handsome irish politician.

they shook hands. lawrence knows this is the key to the election. what happens the rest of that day? no one can know. everybody has different versions. we do know that by the kennedy -- bobby kennedy came down the stairs at least three times. each time they tried to get lyndon johnson to withdraw. >> which version do you trust the most? what do they mean? -- what happened in those meetings? >> what happened in the meetings, we do know. there are other people involved. let the first time bobby kennedy comes down, he meets with john connally. andsam rayburn gave a description of what happens. we have that. john connally talked to me.

what happened was is he came down. , robert kennedy,he was very upset. sam rayburn said down. he basically said we're going to have a floor fight. the liberals will not stand for lyndon johnson. they will put up their own candidates. we would like you to consider being the chairman of the democratic national committee. rayburn said "epitaph." -- epithet. the second time robert kennedy comes down, he apparently -- am i going on too long? >> no. >> the second time he comes down, each of these meetings, he wants to meet with lyndon johnson but lady bird says i did not think it ought to meet.

rayburn knows the also should not meet. there's too much antagonism. the second time that bobby kennedy comes down, he said "i have to get rayburn." john connally is his campaign manager because he is the only man tough enough to handle bobby kennedy. sam rayburn is old. he has cancer at the time. he is blind. he is sam rayburn, at this massive, and smiling figure who has ruled this for a quarter of a century. >> it is almost a father and son. he loved lyndon johnson like his son. he would spend perhaps most

sundays in washington at the johnson's home. he loved the two johnson girls. connally says go in there and talk to bobby kennedy. i have got to sign sam rayburn. -- find sam rayburn. busbyhe is a very smart, brilliant little man. he is a little timid. he walked back out. he said bobby kennedy was glaring at me. i walked outside. i said i will deal with him. from out here. i will not stay in there. connally comes back with sam rayburn. bobby kennedy says he wants lyndon johnson to withdraw from the ticket. rayburn says to bobby kennedy

"are you authorized to speak for your brother?" bobbykennedy says "no." he says "they come back when you are." bobby kennedy leaves and goes back upstairs andhe comes down a third time to do get johnson to withdraw and this time he meets with johnson along. -- alone. >> what do you think out of all the research did jack kennedy sent his brother down to get him off the ticket or not? >> i do not know. i do not know. no one can really know. robert kennedy and world history -- in his oral history says of course not. i was so close to my brother. what you think i did?

however, jack kennedy did everything he could to get johnson to except the nomination. -- to accept the nomination. at one. jackskennedy goes down the same backstairs to see sam rayburn alone. rayburn says basically that i would ask you to things. -- two things --will you keep lyndon johnson occupied in happy? -- and happy as vice president? something else. andkennedy says william make him a real part of your administration. he says i tell you that. sam rayburn says i agree. >> what did the kennedy called lyndon johnson behind his back?

>> among other things, uncle rufus. -- rufus corn pone. >> why? >> they are mocking the fact that he has a southern accent and that he is a southerner. that he is corny. to be on that, they said why did they treat him with a meanness and cruelty? i tried to explain that in the book. they were afraid of him among other things. they had watched lyndon johnson. they had seen his incredible energy and drive. they watched him run washington when he was majority leader byrdone night johnson was walking out of his one light building.

-- burning in the capital and that was lyndon johnson's office andhe turns to his aid and says, but nobody out works lyndon. they were afraid that if you let him walk a very tight least, he will start to build up his own power in washington. >> if i count right, including the index in notes in your book, 3206 the pages. what happened? you're going to have four books and that was it. you have a fifth one coming. at i divided them. >>that is such a good question. the last half of this book is the assassination of what happens in the 47 days after that.

i am writing and i'm watching lyndon johnson take all the reins of power. it is dramatic to see what he does. i know i have told you this. i do not regard this as just a biography of lyndon johnson. i want each book to examine the political power in america. i'm saying this the kind of political power, seeing what a president can do in a time of great crisis. what does he do to get legislation moving? that is a way of examining power. in a time of crisisi want to do this. . in fall. i suppose it takes 300 pages. let's examine this. >> in your book, lyndon johnson i think life is to the public --

lies to the public about a number of things including his relationship with his blind trust. how often from what you have seen in this book has lyndon johnson lied to the public about anything? -- when he became president? >> these 47 days is a time unlike any other in lyndon johnson's life. he has all these forces. -- within him. lying is a big part of his entire career. up to here. it is like he rises to something else. i do not think it is really part of it. there are hints of it. what he does to stop the texas journalists from looking into his fortune. it is a minor part of what he does.

he knows he has to be a president. the country need continuity. if they are young. -- they are youngerthe president has just been and struck down. most of these theories are disproven. that is not the headline. air force one is far back in washington. -- is flying back to washington, these are the headlines asuspect arrested appeared -- suspect charged. suspect visited soviet embassy. suspect has prided anti-castro groups. we had just come through the cuban missile crisis a year before. the country would be very easy to become worried. the country was worried.

there's a great anxiety. johnson knows he has to step off that plane and be a president. he did. he rises to its. for the next seven weeks, he is a president. someone says it is like an alarm clock had always told him to yell at something every 20 minutes. for seven weeks his alarm clock did not go off. >> i want to take a moment and run an audio tape of one of your sources. before i do,i want to ask you to tell us how important george reedy was to this book. >> george reedy was very important. >> who is he? >>he was lyndon johnson's press secretary with a couple from

1950 to 1965. in the senate, he is the closest aide and johnson relied on him. george reedy was a brilliant man. johnson relied on him to help him work out the strategy. -- in the senate. >> this is a couple of minutes. it is lyndon johnson on the phone with george reedy so we think it's a sense of what their relationship was. >> why would you answer me in there? >> i was outside. >> it is in the east room. >> they say 645 is the best time. we could lay it to them cold. they say 635 and cbs will carry live. abc will carry live.

>> i thought 7:00? what it was and they will do it. we'll get better play at 645. >> i do believe that. -- i don't believe that. 7:00. 6:45 is 4:45 in part of our country. >> it will be replayed. >> that is not an answer. >> 5:00 is when people are getting off. i do not see why it it would be better. >> most of the stations will carry it live. that is why. they will do it at 7:00. there's no question there. >> i think you're stations will carry it.

>> i do not think that. >> i do not either. i'm just passing on what they said. >> they do not want to interrupt the 7:00 news. it begins at 645, cbs has that cheap time. >> that is what they're after. no doubt about it. they will carry its. i cannot imagine they are turning it down. >> we cannot do this in a hurry. i do not know enough about it. they're selfish. he does not want to give up the primary time. it is 7:00 here, it is 5:00 in texas.

i do not believe you'll get much audience. i think later in the evening is better. let's talk about it. bill moyers is in here. let's try to reason it out. >> there is a lot in their including his reference to jesse kellam. >> is manager of the radio and television stations. >> how many stations did he have? >> only one. in austin. wlbj, later to different call letters. >> why only one television station? >> the fcc only allowed one. airplane pilots said it could

always tell when you were over there because they only had one television antenna. in austin. >> you do talk about jesse kellam and the money managers. i will come back to that. what did you hear in that? >> first of all, i heard it press secretary was always like this. -- wasn't going to agree with lyndon johnson. to he said they will carry its. this is what i arranged. i am explaining it to you. it is among the reasons that johnson did george reedy. -- get rid of him. as the vietnam war escalatereedy is telling him not to. escalate it. reedy likes to tell johnson the truth. you hear johnson, a master politician.

he is a micro manager. he is thinking what time it goes on in california. he is right. he wanted at 7:00 instead of 6:45. detail. the third thing i hear is the tone of his voice, to tell you the truth. there are several conversations with the tone is a lot harsher and more demanding. what do you hear in that? >> you hear him harsher in some? go back to jesse kellam. you have a whole section were you talk about his relationship to the media and his threats.

we heard a lot of that during the nixon administration. >> the reason that i do go into the threats that he may, in -- the three threats he makes a december 1963, he has been in -- office for a month. he has kennedy's civil rights bill started. bills committee's tax started. -- kennedy bus tax bill starthe did beat congress on another it. thing. he murdered them. he flies off to texas. during which he creates be "war on poverty." he has never conversations were -- he has a number of conversations he is worried the press is that getting too close to the fact that he has accumulated a fortune during his life.

do you want me to tell that to kellam? kellam comes out and says there is a reporter from the herald who sent me this list of questions. what do i do about it? johnson telephones the managing editor and says the exact quote from the book. you do not want to be investigated by me. someone might investigate you. i do not know the actual uses the word in those terms but he -- tax returns but says we may investigate a lot of says things. we can investigate licenses. we can investigate this. the last time they were up for this, they did not go into it

thanks to me. the fcc likes to look at how much tv time a regular stationed gives to nonpaying public service. he is saying thati held to before but i might not help you again. some might start looking into these things. the managing editor is saying "don't worry. we'll stop it." johnson said next week is not good enough. call me back tomorrow morning. tomorrow morning he called back and said "she will be stopped." she was. i talked to her about it. they make clear that they did not want her investigating it. >> how long did she stay with the paper?

>> she was wonderful. she stayed. i think she was the first woman who had the washington bureau of a national newspaper. she covered lyndon johnson for years. >> we hear politicians tell us that the money is in a blind trust. what ever they are worth, it is in a blind trust. you said it was not very blind. >> yes. he was one of the trustees. his partner ferguson was a judge in the hill country.

he said it seems like every night johnson was telling him what to do. >> you say their special telephone lines? >> yes. it was a telephone line on the desk of the general manager. we are going to go in the next book into what happens. in this book, what is happening is that life magazine has found out about it. at the very moment they have investigating it, it they started investigating body baker.

-- bobby baker and campaign contributionsthey soon found it was leading but to lyndon johnson. the very morning that jack kennedy is assassinated, at the same time the motorcade was going to dallas, there is a meeting to divide up the areas for a series on what one had been called "lyndon johnson's money." there are about to investigate it. >> this book covers when? >> in in exactly with the state of the union address on january 8, 1964. in that time, why i do that, in this time, he takes kennedy's programs. he gets them started. he makes the country have a feeling of continuity.

he says to a friend, "i have to continue kennedy's program. if i want to run for reelection and do what i want to do, i have to make the program my own." that christmas he has his advisers create the "war on poverty." he said too many americans live on the outskirts of hope. he lays out the basic outline. of the great society and the war on poverty. that is the ending. >> back to the bobby kennedy/lbj relationship. what impact did that have on history? >> an immense impact. that is going to play out in 1967 and 1968. largely over vietnam and over civil-rights. the antagonism, there are

scenes in this book where bobby kennedy, kennedy is an attorney general. johnson is the vice president's. bobby kennedy humiliates and time after time. every time johnson wanted to use it, he had to get written permission. a planeevery time he wanted to give a speech from every word had to be cleared. kennedy does more. they are both on the president's civil rights opportunity. --in two consecutive meetings, on equal opportunity employment and johnson is chairing this.

you can really believe this. johnson was once the second most powerful man. he is chairing that meaning. johnson's chief aide has started demanding answers to questions, humiliating him. bobby kennedy walks over to someone else and starts chatting when johnson tries to reply. bobby kennedy is having a chat. he simply walked out of the room. on the second of these meetings, he says to a civil rights leader to lois martin, i have to make a trip. -- louis martin. i have to take a plane. he told the vice president to cut it short. i knew how he would be if he was angry.

robert kennedy comes over. i told you to go over and cut it short. johnson continues talking. there are things that when you are writing, you can hardly believe you're writing them. it seems to be must be exaggerating. >> you talk about robert kennedy cutting off his ability to fly wherever he wanted to fly. why did lbj do the same thing to hubert humphrey? he would not let him use a jet plane across the united states. >> you really know this stuff. you are right. he certainly did the same thing to hubert humphrey.

i have to say that i have not finished on why i will do it. and nothing i have examined and now. >> let me ask you about the next volume. i know you hate this. what is your timetable? what does it really matter what i say to you? would you believe me? >> of course. this book took 10-years? >> yes, but that is not right. i was doing the research on the rest of its. i have done most of the research on the next volume as well. >> that is underwriting the next? >> yes. i have written part of it. >> do you think this will be the final book? you'd written three and

asked this. i said yes. >> what is the update on your memoir that you say you are writing? >> that is very long. i did not have to do any research. it is my own life. it is the day memoir about how i grew up in new york. it is more and more about what it was light to try to find out the truth about lyndon johnson and how they were a political power. i think there was a lot of stuff that is interesting.

i would say it is how i had a difficult to do the research. but how have you approached this subject since we began? >> you began this in 19707. >> what ways of life changed? >>we talked about your routine. you did this seven days a week writing and taking time off. anything changed in this? >> i always tried to talk to everyone that is involved in this. i like to still be able to talk to them. but a lot of the people are dead. i got some of them before they died.

i use be able to call george reedy. i had gone out here. -- to milwaukee. we got so friendlyit got to the point that if you, are writing away, you do not what i do schmooze someone would have to captain. -- before you ask them the question. i called george reedyi said when johnson was meeting,, where was johnson, on the rocking chair or the sofa? he would say the rocking chair. i would say thanks. i do not think much has changed. >> did you deliver a eulogy? ford ted sorensen? >> yes, i did. in adequate for the help he gave me.

we both live on central park west. i have four more interviews with him. over and over again, i would call and ask him about something of that gap in the kennedy administration. he was a very thoughtful man. every word i had was considered. why'd you come by after work. i would come by. it meant going into his lobby. we would sit in this wonderful apartment. he was effectively blind. he would sit on one couch. i would sit in the other. it would get dark in the afternoon. he would be talking about things. i would think, i hope nothing further happens to him.

he knows a step that nobody else does. his relations to jack kennedy were so special that he himself was so brilliant not just at words but it analyzing things, and that it was like each of these things was a lesson. i hasten to say he would not disagree with everything. he knows things and no one else could have told me. >> what part of this book was the hardest to research and write? >> probably, at the hardest to research was the johnson's vice presidency. it was so poignant to see this powerful man humbled and humiliated day after day that it was painful for me to learn

about it. he said he could not go over to the white house when johnson was over there because of the way the lower people would treat him. to happen to a lyndon johnson, somebody said it was like a great bull put out to pasture late in life. he did not know what to do. >> was there a time before he left the presidency at the end of 68 where he got revenge? >> oh yes. although we are going to see that.

it is funny, bobby kennedy says to bobby baker at the democratic convention when johnson has insulted by the kennedy's father. but he called him a chamberlain umbrella man. robert kennedy was devoted to his father. bobby baker thinks this is all just normal politics. he and fight bobby baker and has breakfast with him. he takes a minute before bobby kennedy throws change on the table and says "don't worry. he will be yours when the time comes." -- you will get yours when the time comes. when johnson becomes president, he starts to act the same way toward robert kennedy. >> of all the subject matter besides the vice presidency, which of those was the most

difficult to be your hands around? >> the tax cut probably. the civil-rights bills and the tax cuts, to understand how johnson got them moving again, it is like a lesson in politics. why do i have to stop the book here? you want to see what he does in this time of crisis. what he does with these two bills which are effectively stalled, how we get some moving, you say wow. he has a gift. a legislative gift that is beyond a gift, talent beyond a talent. to see johnson come in here and know what to do about it. when the figure it out, it is

thrilling. >> how did he turn harry byrd of virginia around? the budget would blow people's mind. this is 1963. >> kennedy's last budget was $98.9 billion. harry byrd has said something like "it would be nice if it came in at $100 billion." it's been coming in at 101.5, and they think that will be ok. harry byrd is not releasing his kennedy tax cut bill. he is not releasing the budget. harry byrd is the chairman of the senate finance committee.

he rules the finance committee absolutely. kennedy introduced the budget back in january of '63. it is now november 22. these bills are not going out and being released from the finance committee. harry byrd has linked to them together, the budget and the tax cut bill. kennedy feels that if only get to $100 billion, that will be ok. they keep talking about going around harry byrd. the night of jack kennedy's funeral, johnson summons to his office, he is not in the oval office, kennedy's three top economic advisers.

they are kennedy's top three advisers. they start to talk about going around harry byrd. lyndon johnson basically says "you cannot go around harry byrd." he has nine votes. out of 17 people. >> they said how you know? >> johnson says "harry byrd always has 9 votes." two of these people write memos of what happened tech. we had to give what harry byrd wanted and we can have the tax cut bill. they realize $100 billion is a magic figure.

he was the budget under $100 billion. the tax-cut bill starts. >> robert caro is our guest. his fourth book called "passage of power." >> thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] for a dvd copy of this program call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at www.q-and- a.org. "q & a" programs are also available as c-span podcasts.

not just that the call them rufous corn pone. mean, horrible things. there are rare occasions when lyndon johnson would be invited to one of the many dinner parties that robert kennedy had at hickory hill. ethel would put him at the losers table but he knew that. >> in two weeks, robert caro continues on lbj. >> he was a laughing stock but behind him being a laughingstock was their fear of him. they knew what he could do if they took him off this tight leash. >> part two, may 20 at 8:00 on "q &a." >> next, "washington journal" with your calls and then live coverage at 11:00 by u.n.

secretary general ban ki-moon. he will talk about the role of the un in post-conflict situations and a section at 2:00, the u.s. house is in for legislative work every week-long break. they have a bill to fund a program for the commerce and justice department. also legislation to raise the country's debt limit. here's a look at our guests this morning on "washington journal" of its 7:45 eastern, we discuss presidential politics with armstrong williams including the anniversary of osama bin laden's killing. at 8:30, the director of georgetown university center on education and the work force discusses the recent report on college graduates, unemployment, and earnings and at 9:15,