national character and culture. it has motivated every great action of conscience. sometimes, as dr. victor frankel observed, it is what live is asking of us. how often the answer to our own problems is to help others with theirs. in all of these things, family, faith, work, service, the choices we make as americans in other places are not even choices at all. for so many on this earth, life is filled with orders, not options. right down to where they live, the work they do, and how many children they can have.

all the more reason to be grateful. this and every day, we live in the united states of america with a talent god gave us and we can use this in freedom. thank god for this nation. [applause] that this great christian institution, you have all learned a thing or two about these gifts and good purposes they can serve. they are yours to have endorsed a share. sometimes, your liberty education will set you apart. and always, it will help direct or path. as you leave, and make for new places near and far, i hope for each one of you that your path will be long and life will be kind. the idea that the bride you hear in the friends you have found here, made these blessings be with you always. thank you all of you.

god bless you. god bless the united states of america. [applause] ♪ [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> tomorrow on washington journal, a discussion on cell phone providers allowing the use of gps information by law for -- -- law-enforcement officials without warrant. our guest is from the american

civil liberties union. then, and virgil goode will talk about winning the constitution party's read -- a nomination. then, a library of congress book -- presidential campaign posters. washington journal takes your calls and in males live every morning starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span. >> these men go through things and have scars that no one can understand except each other. >> the relationship between harry truman and herbert hoover, who were two politically different men and who ended up forming this alliance that neither of them would have anticipated and ended up being enormously productive and established a deep friendship. the letters later in their lives are really extraordinary.

>> it may be the most exclusive club in the world. the private and public relationships between the american presidents from truman and hoover, to george h. w. bush and bill clinton, sunday at 8:00 on c-span's "q&a". >> up next, a discussion about the 2012 election strategy, tactics, and issues. coralroot sat down with joe trippi. -- karl rove sat down with joe trippi. this is one hour and 20 minutes.

>> we are delighted you are all here. we hope to do this three or four times during the year. it is great to have you all here for an interesting inaugural event. we have got two experts here -- karl rove, the star of stage and screen. before that, a deputy white house chief of staff and architect who -- architect of two winning presidential campaigns and also the architect of the revival of the republican party in texas. joe trippi is his sometimes debater on television. he is a noted democratic strategist, one of the elevators in the use of the internet and

social media in political campaigns. also the man who helped to bring our being up close to winning the democratic nomination. >> arizona, new mexico. >> he was one shot away from the presidency. he help with jerry brown's campaign in california in 2010 as well as many campaigns. we are going to have a phone conversation. i want to start -- we will talk for a while and open up the floor for questions, but we want to get into the head of the campaigns as they are at this stage and in the election cycle where they are trying to sidestep the challenges they faced -- they face. i want you to talk about this from the point of view of the

obama campaign because you ran an incumbent president's reelection campaign. you know what it is like to be 48%-49% approval. no sure bet of reelection. what is the obama team of thinking about their challenges and what they need to do? >> there are to be a ways to answer that question. one s what challenges they have not i do not recognize. they have the advantage of time. they have spent a lot of time working on this and going to battleground states. he has held more fund-raisers than all of his predecessors back to ronald reagan combined in their entire campaign. in a way, as somebody who has been inside the white house, i know he has had 130 presidential

fund-raisers since april 2 glove last year. he does have a day job. there is a -- the tension between doing the job you are supposed to be doing and getting the money to run for reelection. he had 2.5 times the fund raisers and bush had. he has had an advantage. he has a very large apparatus in persuading and getting out the vote. it is an army of persuasion much like the bush-2004 model. they have the advantage of 12 years' worth -- eight years' worth of advances in the web and applications and technology that will allow them to do some really interesting things. they have the advantage of money. they are not going to get the $1 billion. i do not thinking -- i do not

think they will get to $750 million, which is what they had last time. i do think they will get close to $700 million. the natural thing is the presidential job approval, which today is 47%. we had 49% at this point. elections are not simply one number. they are a very complex equation. the thing i would look at if i was the obama people is the other number that matters -- do the american people feel he is a strong leader? do the american people see you as having accomplished some big things that are popular? they are in real trouble. the stimulus was seen as a failure and the reform effort is a unique piece of legislation.

it is -- it has become less popular after its package. americans by almost a 2-1 june want to repeal all of it or significant elements of it. the civil-rights act was more popular in the south than when it was passed. this has become less popular. the biggest challenge they have -- they have a good handle on how the will go after mitt romney. he is weird, where's strange underwear. they settled on religious -- religious bigotry. he is a rapacious represented of the most loathsome creature in america, somebody who sits on wall street. rich, weird guy. bay are not very subtle at it at times. they do not have a good handle

on of them. why do we want to reelect him? is he a strong and effective leader that has us moving the right way? the recession officially ended in june 2009, yet recent polls show 75%-80% of people still think we are in recession. they have a real challenge. you have to run for reelection on the basis of i have done things you may not agree with, but you may conclude i did the right thing. if you are able to do that on the war and health care -- people say, you know what? i like him may be personally, which is good for obama. people like him. but they do not like what he has done. they need to say i'd like him, i feel like i can relate to you, i know what you have done. i may not agree with everything,

but you seem like a strong leader. as a result, in a pinch, i will go with you rather than the other guy. do you see him as a strong, effective leader who can explain what he did. it is not good enough to say they killed a son of bin laden. it is just not adequate. as a result, they know they start with a stronger electoral base, but they also understand this election will come down to a handful of states -- 10-12 at most -- and that they are in a very tough reelection battle. it is not clear or assured at all. >> joe, if i could pick that up, particularly the point about the lack of -- the difficulty with accomplishment. they have as them, but they are not popular.

particularly the health care bill and obamacare. of course, the killing of bin laden is tied to them. but what do they do with the achievements being not as popular as they would like? >> they are moving forward. of course, the insinuation, obviously, is rom and republicanney is will take it back. romney and republicans will take it back. he is basically running on "i am not obamacare "when think i disagree with karl about is on the money side of things.

this will come down to maybe five states. i do not really think arizona is in play. there are other places -- pennsylvania could be. essentially this will come down to 24 states -- probably virginia, ohio, florida. but in the end, that will come down to a -- it could turn out to be who is better on the ground. >> you just mean turnout. getting your voters to the poll. >> see who gets their voters to the poll. we are starting to see obama with a democrat in% higher than republicans, which has flip from where it was at the beginning of

the primary season. i do not believe, by the way, that obama will get $700 million. they are spending the bulk of their money right now on online ads, which is what we did with direct mail. you go out and lose money -- by a subscription now. that gives you an idea on the day the obama campaign was over in 2008, they had 110,000 twitter within days it was 15 million. they had 24 million facebook followers. they have a targeted list they have built up with millions of americans. remember last time -- 3 million

people gave him $500 million. if that goes to $5 million this time, the scale of the network has been built so big -- i think this is a lull period. that is not the thing that matters the most. the longer the campaign has an effort in some of these states -- millions of people are going to be out there. i know people do not think people are as energized. i think they are. i think republicans totally missed out in a lot of ways on the importance of building a network. i note that this is not quite the standard.

karl rove used to say, it is the economy stupid, it will be the economy, stupid, this time, too." as close as i think it is going to be, that will be the differential. >> do you not have to have a larger theme? you have to have some kind of -- i guess my question is, what is the president's message going to be to mobilize his forces and bring over his independence? >> it is the message of moving forward into what? >> into an economy that can last. >> you had romney taking credit

for saving the auto industry. what is the message that will get either of them to excite their base? mitt romney has that problem. and to get independents to move to them. and the independence might do better this year. they tend to be anti-incumbency. forget about whether it is president, congress, senate. that is what we saw in france and greece. we are seeing it around the world. i think independence will be a or romney.e of fa the president wants to make it about do we go backward or do we go forward? so far, mitt romney has been void of ideas.

he married on to ideas like paul ryan's and others that are not wearing well. they are not his ideas for the most part. they're not exciting people to change to him. >> two minor points about the process and i hope we will focus on the substance. obama has not gotten enthusiasm among the donors. at first quarter last year, april, may, at in june -- that is the natural. -- natural period. 7% of his donors renewed. that is about 25%. if you go back a few years ago, they were sending out e-mail's. now they are saying $73. your name will be put in a hopper to have dinner with barack, michelle, joe, and jill.

now they are asking to spend $3 to add your name put in the hat separate the that -- so if president obama comes to your state, he will give you a shout out during his speech. it may be smart marketing, but it is a profound absence of a message and disappointment. what is the price. ? -- what is the price-point? having been in the direct mail business -- we are going to pass the flat tax, have universal health care -- whatever the reason is the reason you get them to renew their support. $3 out of your pocket does not matter. you might get lucky. you might have dinner with the

breadth of the united states. we need you to send $3 in order to see mitt romney. that will not necessarily work. joe may be right. the other interesting question is both sides will have armies of persuasion. the democrats will build this thing on internet technology and applications and the web and social networks attempting to take joe and link them up with others who look like joe and hope he will reach out weird guys who live up -- they will take the social characteristics of joe and match him up with other people in order to have joe work with them. we found it worked beautifully in 2004 when we late joe up with people in his neighborhood to do that. that victory committee framework or that existed is still there in the battleground states.

the chairman in warren county, ohio, the person who led the volunteer task force in florida -- most of them are still there. a lot of them in 2010. this republican national chairman understands this and has been working behind the scenes to have that there. we will have two competing business models. one says it will use the internet and link joe up with other people all run the country so we can talk to them over the web, and the republican model which is will take joe and make them up with people like himself in his community silly can reach out and talk to them in warren county, ohio. the question is how well will it work? you may come down to 8% or two of the vote. obama 1 north carolina by

outstanding -- outspending mccain seven-one on television. this time around, will republicans be persuasive? >> take us back to the point about mitt romney and his message. certainly there have been critics on the right to a said mitt romney has not put together -- he has been able to attack the president and his family, but he is not put together a real positive message yet. do you think he has? >> since you wrote a column on this very topic -- [laughter] >> i agree, but here is the deal -- it is easier for mitt romney

to fix his problem than obama to fix this problem. that november speech at he gave was damn good. he talked about tax reform. damn good. then he talked about his vision of the future. some of this stuff is good. the raw material is there. the question is over the next three months does it get into a retain so by the time you get to labor day, the stuff is in grain, comparable, and easy to talk about. obama's problem is these guys blew it. the time to set up the presidential election is not in the election year. it is the previous year. to be the president of the united states in 2011 was to be the president of the united states in 2003. screw the politics. keep focused on your job. that is where you set the image of who you are and what you are all about. it spills over into the

presidential election year. the biggest mistake they had was to have an and substantive business -- stated the union address last year. who cares. can you tell me what the theme of this year's state of the union address was? i cannot. i am assessed about reading this stuff. imagine what would happen if last year president obama stood up and said we need to have fundamental tax reform in this country. it would have been fundamental tax reform. the president stood up and said, there is some things in simpson- bowles that i'd like. we may not get the grand bargain, but i will ask congress to take the things this thing to be agreement on and i will work to get it done and then actually work to get it done rather than tell a speech and excoriate paul ryan's as being a radical plan. if the had done that, we would

be thinking he is giving us a sense of the big problems. we need to get america growing again and deal with the deficit problem we have. what if obama said -- when he ran for office, he said he would scrap the program. what if he had done that? they would have absolutely taken the air out of the republican tires and the moving ahead. we have done these things together last year, and i would naturally build on my present term by doing these things. instead, with all due respect to warren buffett, we have the buffet rule, which was laid out last august's and refuse to do a piece of legislation so it could be scored. his people knew what it was, which was a complete cut. $47 billion in income over the

next 10 years. it is one to spend $46 treen and add $9.60 trillion to the deficit and we are going to get $47 billion? please. not serious. >> do you pay tax reform and an atomic reform is adequate? you do not think so? >> within a couple of months, the president will be able to say he created more private- sector jobs. things are not great, and he said that. the problem here is as bad as things are -- the worst economy we have had in my lifetime probably -- something is right because the guy is ahead in

every one of the swing states. he is leading among women, latinos. i think the republican -- there is almost such a dislike of him. they are not seeing the glass half full, they want to see it half empty. the american people want to see the glass half full. the problem here is, i think, are the intangibles. this thing is about trees, france, europe really moved so quickly it impacts the american economy in a way that even if it fell here, people lose confidence again.

that would be deadly. there are a lot of things. >> if it could be worse. 20% say they are satisfied with the position of the country. no president has been reelected with a number that low. 64% say we are on the wrong track. this morning in dallas, 40% 4 obama, 47% mitt romney. this is one of the big advantages the obama campaign will have -- a compliant media. there was an article on usa today -- obama leads in battleground states 47%-45%. i read the whole article. no context provided. in those 12 states, what happened in 2008? obamacare = states by more than did before%. john mccain got just over 45%. here we are in 2012 and obama is

7 points below where he was and romney is where mccain was. who do you think will come out with a better shot of winning? romney's to win five of the 12 states and he wins the election. -- rodney needs to win five of the 12 states and he wins the election. >> if obama needs to win the carry states -- nevada, colorado, new mexico -- mitt romney can not get there. this is where demographics start to play in. obama is going to win the carry states. nevada, new mexico, and colorado -- but it was going on with foreclosures in nevada. of course, he gets all the blame for that. the problem is mitt romney cannot win those states with the differential he is running with

latinos and hispanics. these are states that have minority representation -- you cannot lose depending on what paul you are looking at now and when those three states. that means obama has to take one of the states where he is ahead in every single one. some by two, some by seven. this is going to be fought out on the issues on going forward, going back. we have created jobs. there will be plenty of money on both sides to have that fight. it will be the most negative election we have ever seen because we have a president with an approval rating of 47% --

below to% -- you have a congress with approval ratings the lowest they have been in history, and you have the republican nominee who starts off be the less favorable nominee of any party at this stage a in the campaign. they are all going to talk about their positive visions for the future. i am sure it is. to happen. let me guarantee you what is one to happen -- remember the swiss ft boa problem. t is going to get down to the things he talked about. it would get down to what is the ground game, how is mitt romney

on immigration and other issues? how does the close that gap with hispanics? if he does not, it forces him to start getting into a situation where there is only a few states. >> if it is just a number. you carried 44% in 2004 of the hispanic vote john mccain was up 31%. can mitt romney when leap with -- can mitt romney win with 31%? >> mccain had 5 million fewer republicans come out to vote. lowest number of veterans to vote in a modern presidential election. the was clearly an authentic war hero. the republican national

committee's hispanic liaison said governor romney does not know what his immigration policy is. he has a problem on this issue and he has a problem with this voter group. having said that, he also has a big advantage. take a look at the attitudes in the latino community. he needs to get better on immigration, but he needs to drive home the economic issues. let me come at it from a different way. if romney only carries the mccain states, it is 12 closer. texas, north carolina, utah, new jersey, pennsylvania, new york, mass. -- lost electoral college votes. think about it this way -- of

three, two, one. there are republicans states romney's to recover -- indiana and virginia. indiana is already back in the republican column. i had at a dinner with mitch daniels. the stop eating his green beans and said "not that i can think of." those are important. there are 39 electoral college votes in those states. 78 if you win all three. >> va is going to be the toughest far from me. it is the best shot of obama. >> i think virginia -- this whole thing could come down to virginia. what is fascinating about that -- the irony and a strange ways

politics works -- in 1989, va elects a guy named doug wilder, first african-american governor of the state, largely on his pro-choice message. it shocked everybody. now it is, -- it could come down to virginia for the first african-american president. part of the reason va is a problem for mitt romney is because the governor passed the ultrasound, abortion measure of there. what i am is saying is what it has done is, i think, put the issue in that state -- romney as

a problem. i think virginia could be the most fascinating and most important state in the country in terms of how it deals with both parties there. >> indian not gone. i think north carolina gone as well. va gets to be key. ohio and florida. 49 electoral college votes. it would be a shift back like they were in 2004. if you take a look if the shift in those to the estates, there is a shift from democrat in 2004, democrat 2008. they are now in a narrow margin -- karamargin -- 2.8%. i think today of florida is very likely to end up in the romney camp. ohio as a real problem, particularly with workers for obama. if republicans win those five

states, all romney's to do to win the white house is when you hampshire, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, iowa, colorado, new mexico, nevada, and he is president of the united states. >> that is when we get into some of these graphics. if you cannot -- i agree with him. he can win with a 31% of the latino vote. he can win the presidency. >> two people have problems with latinos -- mitt romney and barack obama. if you look at the decline in the latino support and approval for the president, it is at or above the national average. it has been consistently so. why? i got a little bit of a hint of it at an american crossroads

focus group recently. we said let's get latino voters whose principal language in the home is spanish. the swing voter. people who are not partisan. you are not talking about people clued into american politics. they do nonparticipation. there are all kinds of barriers and attitudes. they would not be here in this room voluntarily. those were the attitudes. the economy back, i am word about my job, everything is getting expensive. nonetheless -- except on one issue -- immigration. he told us he would have immigration in 2008. he had complete control of the senate and house for two years. they knew he promised to put forth a bill. they knew he had never put forth

a bill. it has not gotten done. this is just politics. the press that has a real credibility problem among this group. >> mitt romney has backed himself into a corner on immigration during the primaries. the administration will say, are you for the dream act were not for the dream act? >> i will have marco rubio. >> this is a bill that if he served in the armed forces are went to college you can get on the path to citizenship. >> we have had a bruising primary is -- >> he carries three county in west virginia. we have a bruising primary

inmate -- i do not know who he is. >> what i was saying is we had a bruising primary that did it cost some damage to the mitt romney gop brand. with latinos he backed himself into a corner and with women because i think rick santorum and others put some much pressure on social issues. that does not mean that mitt romney cannot heal that. that is one of the big challenges he has to have a shot at opening up the electoral thing. >> i agree with you about latinos. i am not sure i agree with you about a moment. every time they talk about contraception and religious liberty, it was time they cannot

spend talking about the economy. i like how we fixate on the gap mitt romney has on women. obama has a bigger gap on men. obama can not close it with men and mitt romney can not close it with women. the issues that drive both of them will work to the president's disadvantage. the economy, jobs, and growth. >> i do not disagree with -- if everything stays the same, obama wins. >> 44% obama, 47% romney. if it stays the same obama loses. >> i have been in one of those elections, but it was 500,000

votes. if you have a 3% deficit, you will lose the electoral college. please. >> i am sorry i took us off there. the. i was trying to get to is, the thing that really does matter and it generally hasn't in the past, what does mitt romney do in terms of his vice presidential pick? as you were talking about ohio and florida, i think there is a reason portman and rubio and to a lesser extent bush. i think that would be a great pick. i do not mean that facetiously, but i do not think it will happen.

mitt romney has some opportunity here to knock down or give himself real play in one or two of those states. that could have some impact because of what we're talking about. if he can win the the three that have traditionally gone republican -- we both agree virginia and north carolina to a lesser extent could it be a dog fight and to go either way. then he has to win florida and ohio. he has to win both of those states. that is why i think this vice- presidential pick could impact that. >> what was the last time a vice presidential pick actually delivered a state? >> i read a article in the same

topic. >> if you read robert caro's book he carried a states because he stole it. >> what else is new? >> other than 1960 -- >> and rahm emanuel is robbing chicago. >> when did a vice-presidential candidate to really make a difference and carry a state? >> i am saying i think that is going into their thinking. >> i was the one skeptical to this. all the data shows the average vice presidential candidate has less than 1/2 of a point of impact on the national vote and 2% of a vote in their home

states. if you take barack obama and drop it 2% and raise mitt romney's in florida, we have a 2.8% victory for mitt romney. it could be the first time since 1960. if wisconsin is wisconsin of 2000 and 2004 and you put paul ryan on the ticket, he loses in 2004. if the at paul ryan and we get two points, it is in there. this is your trivia question of the day. in the last 50 years since 1960, what vice-presidential candidate not once but twice moved more of the vote in his home state by reaching across

party lines and getting independence and people of the opposite party to support the ticket? who is the record holder? dick cheney and wyoming. 11 point increase in 2000 and 7% increase in 2004. it shows his ability to reach across party lines and wyoming. it had no impact on the election. >> had the gore picked nelson, would that have made it -- the election was so close. the reason it has not mattered is because these races -- i think this one actually could be so tight in some of the big key

states. >> your choice would be -- your advice would be to go with somebody like a portman or a rubio who can help you win a state. how about paul ryan and wisconsin? >> you have to be doubling down on a lot of issues to do that. >> i think it depends on what happens june 5. if walker wins by a good margin, for or five or six points. wisconsin is an plate. -- is in play.

we are living with a bunch of germans. up to the audience if we can. i would like to take some questions. we have microphones for you if you will -- >> good morning. i am a member of mitt romney's hispanic committee. one thing i could not agree more with is that president obama enjoys the media like nobody else we have ever seen. we can see that by the way this statement by what of these republican leon's -- the director of the hispanic outreach and nothing more, he has won.

he has one that is probably better than anything obama has put out. he does not only focus on people that are here illegally. he wants to bring in the best and brightest. you can see everything he is proposing on his website. what is important for the media to focus on is that latinos are going to be won over by the facts. the fact that nobody has imported -- deported more people in history that obama. unemployment is higher among hispanics than any other demographic group in the united states. hispanic children are at the highest level of poverty in the history of the united states. i think the challenge is not how to bring them over to immigration reform or dialogue. just to make sure the latino community knows these facts and understands the failure of president obama. >> i agree with you there is a lot of ammunition. these comments about self

deportation have indicated to some in the community he does not have respect for them. go to south texas and talk to latino ranch and farm owners and small businesses and members of the hispanic community. they are hard asses because they are the first to feel the adverse affect. cartels are shooting at them. are competing for jobs. there are a lot of reasons why they are hard asses but they do want to know the presidential candidate has respect for the community and in recognition this is not all a mexican problem. half the people here illegally came from hong kong the, nigeria on a visa and overstating it. the fact that all the people

from central america are unworthy is a real problem. >> thank you. >> we will get behind you. >> i have a question relative to the fact that president obama is attacking romney on policy issues and personal issues, particularly the high crime of being successful. mitt romney is attacking obama on the issues and not on obama as a person. do you think that is a mistake? should he equally go after obama as a person to better acquaint the american population of who he is? a european socialist and is not think like an american? should that be brought out in the campaign? >>no.

there is an advantage of romney keeping it where he has it. using the president's own statements and pledges to paint a picture of him. the president makes a huge mistake going after mitt romney in the way he has. the one-year anniversary of osama bin laden. what would have happened if he said, you know what, let's not make this about me. let me get in a motorcade and go to the cia and we will have to have a camera shot outside. i will go in in a private meeting with them and tell them how proud i am of what they have done in following these thin shreds of evidence for years. i want to thank them and shake their hands and be there and tell them it is about that. i will get on the chopper and flied out to virginia beach and meets with the families of seal team 6.

i will thank them individually and hugged the wives and tell the children they have every reason to be proud of their fathers for doing what they did. i will go back to the white house and keep my mouth shut. make it about them he would have made it more and made it big. instead he has to engage in all the pyrotechnics and then he has to have an ad with bill clinton to say the damage if this had been -- if at gone bad, the political fallout would have been horrific. what about how difficult it would be for people affected by seal team 6? i think it is extremely ironic the attack was made by joe biden who at the time -- the leaks they had about their discussions about whether or not to launch

the attack had an joe biden setting, no, we should do this from 30,000 feet from a b-2 bomber and obama overrode him saying, said in the seals. kill him to make sure we have the right guy. now it turns out and joe biden in the latest iteration was saying, do not do it at all. we have by then he said at the time, do not do it at all. you cannot put mitt romney in there because he would not have done it. i think mitt romney had the same -- had the exact right answer to say, even jimmy carter would have done it. mitt romney had better not make the mistake of getting drawn into this back and forth on character. the people up for grabs that mitt romney need to get our like obama. they are terribly disappointed

with what he did in office and they are this far from concluding he is not up to the job. attack his character. it causes people to say, every argument generates a counter argument. that is the counter argument you do not want to have. here is what you say. he said the unemployment rate would be 6%. in 2012 we would have 6% unemployment. the president put out a budget. we are in a battle over student loans. he is saying, we cannot let that interest rates go up to 6.8%. we have to lower it to 3.4%. your budget in february said to raise it because you needed money to pay for obamacare. do not do that.

>> the filibuster stuff really works on the republican side. i think the real problem is -- i will just say it. there has been anger about a lot of americans have about fairness over what has happened to the country the last few years. i think there is a difference between the president talking about that and fighting for fairness for the middle class and taking that as an attack on mitt romney because he succeeded. that is how mitt romney wants to see it. it will not work for me. he has to talk about it, too. he did one time. it was a spectacular victory

speech. >> he first said it in a debate and then it was following michigan. >> i thought for the first time he really framed of fairness and a way that would work for mitt romney and made a lot of sense. i have not heard it sense. i do not know why that is. i do not know if there is something in their data. instead he falls into the trap that if you start to take on and say thet president is attacking the rich, i think it is a bad thing for romney to do. he had it articulated right. i wish i could remember the language. >> it was that memorable. >> he has never said it sense. i think it was a big mistake for him to leave that alone.

i would go back and look at that speech if i were him because i think he articulated fairness and a way that would work. >> did you have a question? over here. >> i think many of us believe is part of the government poser responsibility to create the conditions for prosperity. for me that means free terms, opportunity, velocity, a bird -- upper mobility. in a nut shell, could each of you tell me what you think each candidate's message would be regarding prosperity meaning opportunity and velocity and upper mobility. >> joe, why do you not go first? >> i think obama has been -- let

me do it this way. i believe we are in the miss we are in over 30 or 40 years of administrations. a lot of the problems ending up today that have not been fixed in terms of the long term of the nation have been built up over time. i think obama has been looking at really -- he did save the auto industry. it is focused on the college tuition and on getting rid of the bishop -- bush tax cuts. it is getting down to fairness about who pays the price for all

of that. a lot of it will be some painful decisions that will have to happen. i think both parties have avoided a lot of the pain. anybody who comes up with an idea, the other side automatically knocks it down. we will not get through any of this without making those tough decisions. i think both campaigns -- it will be interesting to see if either campaign will address any of this stuff. i will not be a partisan about this and said, we are going to have a big discussion about how to do it. i think it will be a negative race and we will put off the future until after this election. i think mitt romney has done that throughout the primaries.

i think it will be the same case as we go forward in the general. i think the president will be reelected. i think hopefully this polarized miss we are in, somebody will win a victory so we can get on with it. >> so we will have a negative campaign aimed at personalities and attacks. whoever wins will emerge with a mandate? >> if the president puts out the perfect plan to move the country forward tomorrow or paul ryan did, the problem is right now the other side will attack it. i do not see how we get out of it unless the american people actually -- unless somebody puts it out there and the american people swarm to it. >> i agree that if anyone laid

out a plan both sides would swarm it. that is because it has been polluted by three and a half years of this president stiff arm in his opposition. the president needs to set the tone. we got elected in a contentious election in 2000. we did not come in with a wave of enthusiasm and good will obama came in. by june of 2001 we passed bush tax cuts with a quarter of the democrats voting for it. we did it by negotiating with it. this president had too many democrats and the senate and house and he did not think he needed to talk to republicans. mcconnell told me he had been eight months without being at the white house. i was with john boehner, he said, that seems about right. my job went slack. i reluctantly believe the only

way we will get bipartisan is to start again. bush wanted to do it but we have florida. we were in trouble. he is a good man and a patriot. he was so caught up in the partisanship. obama had a chance and he blew it. mitt romney will win if mitt romney has a message that has not only got the cinematics , the -- semantics' right specifics behind and so people said, i got a handle on what you want to do. i been not agree with that all but you will be willing to tackle it and i will give you my vote. >> if tax reform -- i want to ask you briefly. is tax reform a winning issue

for mitt romney if he makes it a real focus? >> i think so. most americans think, we have a crazy tax system. if he can say i wanted to be flatter and simpler and we spend less money trying to comply with that, if he says, we are being disadvantaged. we have the highest tax rate of any country in the world. if he says, we have american companies with one trillion dollars for the profits abroad, if you are a key word packard and you sell in germany and make a profit and pay your taxes and he went to brigham hobby have to pay a second tax year. if you are siemens and you pay taxes here you take it back to germany you do not have to pay a second tax. we are making it difficult to bring it home and invested here. if he starts talking about it in concrete ways that ordinary

people can get. in addition to tax reform saying i want to do something about putting our fiscal house in order and there will be tough medicine, -- >> is the paul ryan plan a winner for you? >> i think it is. a truck driver and colorado said, we have to put our hats and order. we keep spending we will end up like greece and there is no european union to bail us out. a woman waited tables at ohio and her husband worked in a warehouse. she said we are spending money we do not have. it is causing everything to cost more for health care to

groceries. i am worried about my mom and more worried about what we are doing to our kids. for once the debt has become concrete in people's mines. it is affecting them and it will affect the prosperity and the future of their children. you take that in with obamacare and you have three big things peeper are willing to hear somebody talk about. >> -- people are willing to hear somebody talk about. >> what is fascinating is in europe with austerity, people are screaming it does not work and telling them to get out with the elections they are having. here we are saying we have to get to austerity and clamp down and cut all the spending at a time when the the other argument is, this is the wrong time to do it. that is where i think what is happening in europe will have an

impact on our elections. how is that read by the truck driver in colorado? are they seeing it as having to get our house in order? somebody like bill gross is treasury secretary -- we will do this all different. we do not have to worry about that. i think there is this economic issue right now where the president is saying, everything else is falling apart. we are not. we are stronger than anyone else in the world. we have to keep the building that and we have to keep moving forward. the more everything else falls apart, it will either be people here feel like, we are next, or

we are doing better. at least we have our footing solid or moving forward. i think that is what the entire message in the of the campaign -- i think they are right about that. >> i think the american people say the stimulus bill failed and they want to keep us from becoming europe. europe is going over problems with austerity because they are spending more of their gdp on government than we are. europe. what we are talking about is spending. say we have to cut the budget by 15%. we have to restrain the future growth. we're having a battle between the rise in plan and the obama plan. both say we spend $3.60 trillion. in 10 years, the ryan plan says that the government budget will be $4.80 trillion.

obama says $5.80 trillion. we are not in a battle where the europeans are saying we're spending $1 trillion of our euros and they have to cut it to 800 million. we are saying that we want someone who will keep us from getting there. >> all open it up again to anyone in the audience. >> i know you do not like to attack obama. >> i like to attack and the right way. >> to you think it is a paid to do this by threatening tax increases by overburdening businesses with regulations? >> the things that he has done has given us the week this

recovery. if we have the average we could have about 2500 more per capita in gdp. we would have 13 million more people working. we have the average growth. i want to be critical of the policy. look. i have this in a rough draft. at all a some at this early in the day. they have plenty of time to do it. i loved it. it is the kickoff speech. president obama said two things. he said i still believe that we are not republicans or

democrats. we're all americans. he goes later on to say that make romney sincerely believes that as long as millionaires like camera doing ok then everybody else will do all right. where did he say that? where did he say everyone else would be alright? he did not say that. i want to deal with the impact of these policies. >> this gets down to a fundamental difference in terms of how people interpret fairness. this is how we view what the president is doing and is fighting for fairness. if he puts it in that context, it does not give him an opening.

this is correct for what democrats have to do. it is going to be interesting to say if romney could go back to this various issue. he tends to fall into ascribing motives. way in the back. >> good morning. wayne paladino.

as he reminded us at the very beginning of a presentation, ideology and platform is important and may make the difference. my question relates to the third party. i do not know if rick santorum is the embodiment of that. ron paul. how do you see that whole dynamic affecting the future of the race? >> santorum is a non factor. the people that are supporting him are in the process of getting energized into the network. the ron paul thing was a different deal. this is about the most unstable political coalition i have ever seen. it only exists briefly and is at war with itself. it has two very different wings to it.

it has beyond anti-war types anti-war, anti imperialists, so far right they show up on the left wing. people a deadly concerned about the actions of the federal reserve. they have 6-months worth of survival food and ammo in the basement. [laughter] caucus states like maine and minnesota get six delegations of they can place it in nomination. they're trying to influence platform. there be something on auditing the fed appeared this is a weird movement i suspect a lot of ron people are part of the anti-war movement and will not be there for either party in the fall.

whether the fed pagers and survivalist will there, we will see. -- fed haters and survivalist will be there, we will see. >> i think there is a 20% chance we see a third candidates in the race. americans are out there still trying to qualify the ballot. >> we will have a libertarian. this'll be a problem in a couple of close state. >> even have a situation where a is 3% of the votes. we can have the situation that did happen in florida with nader and making a difference in

how the boat goes. -- how the vote goes in some of these states. i think that is a real problem. we do not know who that will be a real problem for. somebody you is pulling more out of romney or an anti were candidates. -- anti-war candidate. >> being one of those ties with a lot of charges in the basement. -- cartridges in the basement. >> identify yourself. [laughter] >> i have more than you do. this should theoretically be a slam dunk for the republicans.

given the economy. given what has happened. why isn't it? what makes people not comprehend what is going on? >> i am a follower of this. i believe we are a narrowly divided country, 50-50. a number of true independence is shrunk to 8% or 12% of the electorate. i have a slightly different view of where we are stuck in those camps. it is not because we have a vigorous debate between two parties that have different ideological views of the country. it is because we have two parties you have fought to

withdraw. they're like to exhausted boxers to just pummel each other. each side has won victories on civil rights and a question of do we need more fairness. i hate that word. fairness in terms of outcome or opportunity. the republicans have won the war over this. --w war over limited government. what are we going to do about the war on terror attacks each side does not have answers allowed to break the stalemate. one party or another is going to break the stalemate and move it this way and dominate american politics for 15 or 20 years or whatever. years or whatever.