another three years doing research. there was so much more. i am disappointed -- we were proud because of the bipartisanship. there is a real loss to the country, particularly in the early years. >> in a disappointment? >> i think that really get at it. there were times where you would feel a kind of was on this about -- wistfulness about look at the way people were able to work together to get things done. there are a bunch of presidential books coming out. robert caro is coming out about johnson and oral history. watch how all past presidents get things done.

a lot of the ability to get things done had to do with getting people to come together and compromise. >> clinton said the president is doing deals with people who trying to kill you. our two guests are nancy gibbs and michael duffy. thank you very much. >> thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] for a dvd copy of this program call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at www.q-and- a.org. "q & a" programs are also available at c-span podcasts.

>> coming up, we will have part two of our conversation. >> on "q & a" part 2, nancy gibbs and michael duffy as they talk about their latest book entitled "the presidents club: inside the world's most exclusive fraternity." >> michael duffy, we have not talked much about jimmy carter. it did to interview him? -- how did you interview him? >> we interviewed him fairly late in the game. great historical fact. in late of timber 2012, it jimmy carter became the longest ex-presidents in history.

>> longest serving the regular price hoover was 31 years. carter will pass. >> he was 53 or 54. he was looking at a long time. he has a crisis. he says, what am i going to do? he writes his memoirs, and then he decides to be a globetrotting problem solver, and he applies himself with a tremendous amount of energy, and a good thing is he did a tremendous work all around the world. the bad thing isn't he went too far when he tried to work with -- the bad thing is that he went too far when he tried to work with residents -- presidents who followed him. they found they had to watch him carefully, so we have a

number of them, whereas carter serves special missions for president but sometimes goes off the script. >> did anybody ever call jimmy carter and say, stop doing what you are doing? >> in 1990 when they were about to do liberate kuwait, carter thought bush was way out of line by sending americans to liberate kuwait, and he began to campaign privately behind the scenes, first with the un security council, and later with key allies of the u.s. coalition in that effort, getting them to stop the path toward war.

the white house found out about it and told them to cease and desist. they think this was close to treason. carter is not the only person who has come close to treason in that club. >> you write up lyndon johnson was friendless. he had no friends? >> he was a huge personality and always wanted to have people around hammond, but coming after kennedy without charm region with charm, -- coming after kennedy without charm, johnson was not seen as legitimate president. today's after the assassination, he said, i used to feel bad for harry truman about the way he

got elected, but of lease is was not murdered. -- at least his god was not murdered. the circumstances made him even more isolated and made it even more challenging to get his footing. the way he handled the transition stands up very well, signal stability, with three important, -- was very important, and was vindicated by the scale of his landslide victory. >> what is the word you used to quote other historians? what is the rule? if you go to the source notes, there are all sorts of other books that are "too. >> we relied on five or six, so much but i felt i needed to quote them or praise them in the text of the book.

you cannot understand nixon or reagan unless you understand the book about ronald reagan. you cannot understand jimmy carter unless you read a book on that. tom dufrank's work on ford was essential spirit but was there an agreement it would not be published until he was dead? >> kennedy and johnson, richard reeves on kennedy. >> another one i saw was monica crowley. explain why she would be interesting. >> she was richard nixon cox and research assistants in the final years of his life. she has written two books about her time with richard nixon. who did richard nixon's research assistant in the final years of his life. some of them were dictated on the same days.

not everyone who was around nixon believes he possibly could have said all those things, but we tried to quote monica where she was arguing against nixon's pinterest -- interest. we felt so dependent upon other historians to understand that we felt that footwork it -- footnoting the work was not enough. there is the canon about reagan. we may have gone overboard, but we wanted to give credit where credit was due. >> who did you rely on for harry truman? >> there is a great biography, but he wrote not only his informal memoirs, but he wrote these books including about the ex presidency, and he felt

strongly the country should you former presidents as our resources. this is him expressing who is resentment that eisenhower was not using him as our resources. -- as the restores. his formal biography is not as interesting to me as "at ease and." you really feel eisenhower talking. even nixon's nemours were very interesting. presidents have an interest. people working with johnson were horrified how he would strip out colorful, vivid storytelling, because he felt a presidential memoir had to have a lofty tone to it, and the people wanted to capture the

real johnson. good >> even by their own admission, it is difficult to read, but if you go to the bush's book of letters, they are the most revealing documents i have read in the entire time. they are astonishingly confiding and very real, and how he feels about nixon and stuff like that in very real ways. it has become a real business for former presidents. it is one way they support themselves. it has become more in their interest to write them, so we get more books. you have to take them with a grain of salt. >> one strange moment for us is

when we have some videotape walking around george herbert walker's grave site. >> the funeral planning of ex- president is a big deal, and as they get older, it becomes a bigger deal. the army is on them to nail every detail, and it drives them nuts, but they do talk about how they do it, and at one point bush is visiting clinton at the library in little rock, and it is sat on the riverside plane, and bush is looking out the window and says to clinton, what do we do to that terminal region with that -- do with that space?

he says, you should think about it as a burial ground, up because you have to have room for crowds, so within a year year running cable out there, and the ground is set. bush said you need to start thinking about it. >> when bill clinton ought to go out to jerry ford's grave by himself, what is the meaning? >> clinton after he left office was giving a speech in grand rapids, and he goes down to the ford library, and he said, i would like to see the grave site, and marty allen walked him down and spent some moments

in there with ford at ford's tomb. that is important because of the monica lewinsky scandal, ford and carter were working behind the scenes to try to convince clinton not to fight all the way to the senate, take a censure in the house, something that would take the pressure off the political system and not send the country to a trial. clinton is interested in this. he pursues it with four. clinton works behind the scenes to be a witness. he says, i cannot do. even as it heads to trial, ford wants to help, but he says, i

can help you if you admit it. clinton can't go there. i think clinton was always grateful for ford's interested in protecting the presidency but also in keeping the country from the worst kind of destruction. >> you said earlier you started with harry truman. what was your column? >> mine was nixon. >> what about the relationship between richard nixon and john kennedy before? >> what i have not understood is those men were friend in the 1950's. they had come to washington at the same time. they shared a sleeper berth on a train at one point. nixon was invited to tender

the's wedding. -- to kennedy's wedding. it was one of those rare occasions when eisenhower invited him to play golf. they had a fairly cordial relationship. the 1960 costs and wound up -- the election wound up being incredibly close, we did the 1960 election world of being incredibly close, and many were convinced kennedy had stolen it and were telling nixon to challenge the results. just a few days after the election, richard nixon spoke to herbert hoover and eisenhower, two who had no desire to see kennedy and the white house, and both of them told nixon not to challenge, that it would not be good for the country. it would not be good at a time when all over the world you have a emerging democracies coming out of a colonial period

and looking to the united states as a model, so that was a higher priority than who was going to take over office at any given time, so both of them asked not to challenge the results. >> you have a book from richard nixon that said after kennedy was shot that he wept, and to not let him die. what was your reaction? >> i think there was genuine affection, which surprises us when we think about these men as we see the now. i think there was a real connection. your >> also they thought about the president's differently. they felt a connection they do not feel any more.

it is hard to imagine democrats or republicans having that kind of sentiment. >> how official is the president's club as an organization? >> there are no legal documents, but it does have its own rules and taboos and things it will in by the end will not. after osama bin laden was killed in may of 2011, the white house tried to put out feelers for all of the president to come to new york, to come to manhattan for an event near the world trade center, and i think they said it was too political for us.

>> they would confer with each other. >>i think there was a point when you cannot lean on us too much, so is it official? no. is it legal? absolutely. >> you said there was a town house in lafayette park. -- lafayette square. >> it is renovated. it is very nice. i was there last week for the first time. >> how did you get in? >>i asked, and we went to get a camera crew in with cbs. the white house was very helpful. it is run by the white house andonly four people can check into this hotel. it is available for use during the day. it is used as a parlor with an office on the first floor, two dining rooms on the second, and a veteran on three and four, secret service and of it -- secret service in the basement.

it is unmarked. it is beautifully done on the outside, and the only sign you would know it is a former president's death house is there is an office with all the president's papers -- president's guest house is there is an office with all the president favors. -- president's papers going back to hoover. >> there is a presidential seal. >> and a bedspread. >> somewhere you allude to the president's club. and having a seal. is there an actual seal? >>but i do not think we allude to that. you may have misread that. >> let's go back to another thing for people who like to hear about writing. when did you get your first interested in writing? >> in third grade. >> you remember why?

>> i loved to read. once you are reading books, the idea that you can write them, too, i thought that was cool. >> did someone introduce you to a reading? >> a great first grade teacher. good >> what was his or her name? >> mrs. flanagan. i went on a trip in first grade, and i wrote this story about a trip now my family was taken, and it was seven pages long, and we had two first grade teachers, and i showed it to one first. she proceeded to tell me i started to many sentences with the word then, and mrs. flanagan saw my face fall and saw my future as being an engineer. >> you remember beginning a sentence with then? >> it still comes back to me,

but mrs. flanagan said, can i read your story? this was in new york city. >> when did you first get interested in? >> i had a freshman english teacher who without the absence of a region with the absence of evidence thought i might be able to do this -- i have a freshman english teacher who with the absence of evidence thought i might be able to do this, and then in college i worked on the newspaper. >> where? >> in ohio. >> research, how you keep it all together when you are researching? >> we have different styles. i see these boxes and folders and stacks. in michael's office. >> you need to talk about your sister and your good >> mine is more virtual -- talk about your system. >> mine is more a virtual.

because so many of these documents are now available, i would create these folders of newspaper clippings. so many have stories going back. i would collect all of this and keep it on my computer and have all those documents with me. >> she has documents. it is very nice. i am more analog. i have interviews. i need binders, and i need copies on paper or i do not feel i have my arms around them. yes, we are different, and i created large binders into which i made lists of people are want to interview, because they are still interview mobile -- interviewable.

>> you interviewed three presidents. i have one that has jimmy carter in 2011, george herbert walker, but how many presidents have you interviewed beyond that? >> those three plus for whomd. -- plus ford. i have been in an interview with obama, but i was not the only one. >> what about george bush? >> and bush, not reagan. >> which was -- i do not want to say the best, but who was the easiest to interview? >> carter is very confiding and fast.

he talks very quickly. ford wide to be helpful but he was not as strong by the time i interviewed him. i have interfered george bush the most, and he is an excellent interview, and clinton is fun you're a good clinton and bush are the buzz. -- clinton interviews you. >> did you ask -- are the best. >> did you ask george walker bush? >> i cannot argue with his logic. i did ask him for an interview. he has stuck to the current president is serving his silence. he said, i am not ready to step out yet. it takes some time, and he has been disciplined about that.

>> back to your job, when did you get it? at time magazine -->> a lot of breaking and pleading. -- begging and pleading. i really wanted to work for term. 0 week is enough time to start to get a sense and do some storytelling, while a daily newspaper i would be too impatient. i love the idea of a weekly. >> go back to the very beginning. how did you get that? >> i applied to be a fact checker, which was an entry-

level job, and it took about a year before they had an opening, so that was my first job. my job was to make sure the names were spelled right, and i was told if i made three mistakes in the magazine, i was out the door. >>go right how did you get your job? >> i was working as a pentagon correspondent, and he called and -- the editor called and said, why don't you cover the pentagon for us? >> any difficulty? >> are worried they had made a mistake. -- i worried they had made a mistakei was not ready for. "time"magazine. >> they were worried they made a mistake, too. >> they say nancy gibbs has written 100 cover stories. what is that number now?

>> someone who was writing a book about the history of "time"got to 140. >> what was your first cover story? >> it was about the growing tension between older people and younger people, what are we spending money on. in 1988. >> how have you changed your approach? >> it is partly out time has changed its approach. it now has always been a collaborative system, but were a writer would be in new york getting interview materials and now and a background research, and my job has been to pull it together. riders to all of their own research -- writers do all their own research.

it was great for people who were too shy to do their own interview. it was a perfectly designed system for me. >> the you remember your first interview with the president and how you felt about it? >> i remember my first pair of shoes. you could not go into the oval office with the shoes i owned. i was out in 1988. i saw my newsweek correspondent. she was trying to find something serious to wear ai think that was the first time, and it was with herbert walker bush, and he was about to become president.

>> what about your interested in history? your first book was about the lee gramm -- billy gramm. >> that grew out of interested in the role religion had played in the election and whether it was fundamentally different than past elections, and we came to discover how peculiar it was that this one religious figure had had close relationships with president after president, and as a global celebrity himself they did see him as a pier, and they would talk to him and rely on him and trust him as someone who understands the pressure and celebrity.

>> their differences, -- >> it lead differences where bush and nixon were not getting along in 1992. there were times when bill was the interloper. that is what holds them together. they are both aspects of this private president. a private aspect, which is not very big, there are these private spaces we thought were under excavated, and that is what the two have in common. >> we have some video of the reagan library dedication, and it is silent.

how often did presidents use these kinds of occasions to try to get everybody together? >> they worked very hard to get to each other's library dedication. other than funeral's these tend to be the main occasions they get together. the libraries are a big deal. it is one thing they sympathize with each other. library's? >> i am not stand. -- i am a fan. they are interesting places to go. they are american history. they are modern american history. the exhibitions are getting more honest. they are institutions, which makes them more interesting, and we are getting quite a few, so i quite liked them.

>> one thing i did not see a lot of in your book was the president's wives, and what role did they play? book. the first ladies are the only people were close to not only understanding the job but continuing to talk to the president as though he were a real person and not a symbol. one thing that all the president to discover when they take office is even people they have known for years talk to them differently, and they fear people are only telling them what they want to year, and you're not having a real connection.

the first ladies are the ones who tend to get past it. >> marriage is a difficult thing for anyone to understand, and every time we get close to those relationships we realize we cannot get much closer, so some day someone might write a really good book about the presidents and their wives, but that has not happened. >> why simon schuster? >> we are lucky, because he was the editor, and we love priscilla. she is a great editor, and we knew if we did not give her a first crack of this, we would regret it. >> when did you get a first interesting in history. >> i do not know where the line

is between his three and great writing. is man added fascination -- there is an avid fascination if it really happen, so trying to get people to understand why things unfolded the way they did is the most interesting detective story. good >> your major? >> politics and philosophy. >> english. >> what about your first interest in history? >>it is ironic, because what made me first thing about this was reading a biography about lyndon johnson in 1982, maybe like -- may be late 1970's, so i have started his new one.

it is wonderful. it is great, but to be able to get up close and stay that close is a real challenge. i would say this about the president's. if you spend time covering them as a reporter, you know the serious life or death part of the job, but they are still people, and i/o is felt the most interesting stories people want to read are about things that are human and involve human frailty and human triumph and human difficulty. >> i have a question for the two of you.

what is it you would most like to change about michael duffy and your writing a relationship? >> that is a good question. >> i can do your -- can queue you. i am a little faster. good -- a little slower. nancy is quick. >> he holds out. he lowers expectations, and at some point he will surprise me. how long did you know about that, and when were you planning to tell me? >> what would you change about nancy's way of writing? >> mostly i would like to be more like it.

i have a list of ways i cannot describe, but i think what makes it work sometimes is i am always thinking about the dark side. i am always thinking about what is really about work, what are the qualities of our subjects, so i think i fall back to earth, and she left me up. >> do we have another book in mind? >> no. >> we are going to be in recovery for a while. >> wherever we need to go to recover, that is where we need to go. >> nancy gibbs and michael duffy, authors of "the president's club," [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

writes for a dvd copy of this program, call. for free transcripts or to give us your comments, visit us at our website. who in a programs are also -- "q&a" programs are also available as podcast. >> live on c-span today, the bipartisan policy center is hosting a discussion on the upcoming baghdad talks on the iran nuclear program. we will hear from the former middle east adviser to president obama and president clinton and a former deputy national security adviser to george w. bush. that begins live at 10:00 a.m. eastern. a little after 1:00, present obama is in new york city where he is giving the commencement

address for the graduates of barnard, a women's college founded 123 years ago. also today at 4:00 and remarks from the former undersecretary for political affairs and u.s. ambassador to nato. he has a new report exploring steps and for revitalizing the nato vitality. here's a look at our guests this morning on "washington journal."