of difference. i believe she would have been as popular today as she was then, which created problems, because no matter where she went, if you're in a crowd, that caused a problem. but we managed to deal with it and handle things the best we could, and she seemed to be pleased with what we did. >> you have a story in your book about a man named roddy mims. >> yes, roddy was a photographer. he was somewhat of a harassment to me and others. on one occasion, he did something that i was very upset about. i had arranged for mrs. kennedy to arrive at national airport on a military flight, which was very unusual for her. but to do so privately, a separate section of the airport, national airport. we had arranged for the white house cars to be situated outside the fence, awaiting our

arrival. and when we got the plane stopped, ready to let mrs. kennedy get off, we opened the gate to let the white house drivers bring the cars in, and as we walked down the ramp, i noticed not only the cars were coming in, but there was a motorcycle coming in which was unknown to me or unscheduled, and there were two people on the motorcycle, the one in the back had a camera and he was shoot ago way, and it was roddy mims, and he had penetrated the security. so i ran and i grabbed him, and i took his camera, and i took all his film. we went to the white house, he was very upset, i had to turn tim over to the police because of his activities. they didn't arrest him, but they held him for a while. when i got to the white house, i got word the president wanted to see me. so i went into the oval office, and there was a president, and he had pierre salinger, his

brett secretary, with him, and they said, what happened out at national airport? so i explained the situation to them. the president looked at me and said unfortunately you're going to be the scapegoat in this situation. we can't afford to have the press angry at us for what happened there at national airport. so you are going to get the blame. we're going to return the film to the company that roddy is working for. so i get in the film and now take him to the appropriate company, and i answered to my supervisors and explained that i was just doing the best i could to try to maintain our privacy. the president understood also, but he said unfortunately i was going to take the blame for it. >> you didn't use a word in your book about roddy mims, former u.p.i. photographer, accuse him of being obnoxious?

>> he was very obnoxious, one of the more obnoxious people that i ever dealt with, as a matter of fact, and i think i found that -- i've heard the same story from other people, other members of the press, that roddy mims was, in fact, obnoxious. >> there's a story in your book about frank sinatra and you taking a phone call. >> i used to take a number of phone calls from mr. sinatra. he called regularly. he called in december 1961 after ambassador kennedy had a stroke, and he wanted to talk to mrs. kennedy, jacqueline kennedy. and i had informed -- i had been instructed to inform the operator that, when he called, they were to channel those calls through me. so i talked to them, and i explained to them what was going on, that we were in palm beach at the time, and we talked for 10, 15 minutes about various things, and that was kind of a common occurrence whenever he called.

>> why did mrs. kennedy take the call? >> she just didn't find it necessary to talk to him all the time. she informed me when she got around to it, she'd call hello and visit with him for a while, but i don't know that she ever did. perhaps so, but i'm not sure. >> your book has already been on the bestseller list, and you've been on a book tour. how many different cities have you been to? >> well, let's see, new york twice, kansas city, san diego, la jolla, dallas, houston, chicago, and washington, d.c., and we still have more to go. >> what have you found the public to be interested in when they've been questioning you? >> they're just interested in the fact that this is a book that pants a portrait of mrs. kennedy, what she was like. there isn't any gossip, no salacious information, it's just what happened, what she

liked, things she liked to do, how humorous she was at times, how athletic she was at times, and how intelligent she was. and how kind of rambunctious she was. she tried to put me to the test many, many times, and i did my best to meet that test. >> i wrote down a quote. whatever you do in greece, do not let mrs. kennedy cross paths with aristotle onassis. who said that? >> president kennedy gave me that instruction in 1961 when mrs. kennedy went to greece, the first time she went there alone. she went with her -- she had her sister lee with her. she went there, she wanted to see the open air theatre. we were on a yacht named the north wind, i believe it was, and instruction from the president, before i let mine, i

did the trip. it was not to let mrs. kennedy cross paths with aristotle onassis. he gave me those instructions in the presence of his brother, the attorney general. when i went back to my office, i tried to reach -- i did not know exactly why. i found out that onassis was in legal trouble with the united states government. and it appeared to me that the reason was for them not wanting to cross paths was it was going to be a political embarrassment for the president and for the party if she were seen in the company of aristotle onassis. o >> how much time did she spend around him? >> >> his yacht was in the harbor, they were there, winston

churchill was on board the yacht, and the then-senator kennedy wanted to meet winston churchill, and they arranged through mutual friends to go aboard and meet winston churchill, so she had met him. she didn't see him in 1961. she did see him in 1963. >> 325-foot yacht named christina. auch very nice yacht. >> how much time did you spend on it? >> from the time mrs. kennedy got on until she got off. it was about 10 days, i believe, almost. >> and why was she there? >> in august of 1963, she gave birth to a little boy, patrick bouvier kennedy, in massachusetts. and two days later, young patrick died, and mrs. kennedy became very depressed. and her sister lee flew in from london to be with her. lee and her husband, the prince

radziwill, happened to be friends with onassis, and onassis had offered her yacht, made it available if she wanted to use it for mrs. kennedy's use, and they decided it would be a good idea for her to get away for a while and that yacht would make an excellent platform to just to tour the area and get away from everything. and president kennedy wanted her to do it. members of the staff were very concerned about her doing this, because they had a political year coming up, 1964, they were concerned about how it would look. but the president insisted that she be permitted to do it, and so we went aboard, toured the greek islands, went up into turkey, came back out, and it was a very, very pleasant cruise. >> in your opinion, why did she end up marrying him? >> it was appear robert kennedy was killed. she was very distraught about that. she was very concerned about

the security of the children and herself. even though she had secret service protection at the time, up until she remarried, she was still concerned, and he offered something that nobody else could offer, you know, private island. that's where they lived. a private yacht. she had an airline. he had a great, big apartment and things in paris. he had one in new york. he could offer her everything that she needed to guarantee her privacy and safety. >> how many prellses have you worked for? >> lots. >> eisenhower, kennedy, johnson, nixon. >> when you think back of dwight eisenhower, what do you remember and how old were you? >> when i first was assigned eisenhower, i was 27. he was a four-star general, five-star, and he was held in highest regard by everybody worldwide. for a young kid from north

dakota, which is where i came from, to be in the presence of the president, it was really special. and he was a remarkable man. he was quite personable, and so is mrs. eisenhower. he did not call us by name. he just referred to us as hey whenever he wanted to address us. but we respected him immensely. he was a great man to be around, and he loved to play golf, as everybody knows. he spent a lot of time in the golf course, but we traveled a lot too. we traveled through europe, saw east asia, and then we went to the philippines and taipei and korea. we had just an enormous experience, for me anyway. >> you mentioned north dakota. what impact did it have on your life that you were adopted? >> it really didn't affect me too much. when i was about 5 or 6 years

old, a little girl told me she was teasing me, i was adopted. i didn't know what it meant. so i went home to my mother, what was this adopted thing? what's that? and so she was very concerned about the fact that i had found out. she was afraid that i wouldn't have the same kind of relationship that she and my adopted father, knowing that i really was somebody else's child. but i also had a sister who was adopted. we went biological. she had been adopted before me. and we kind of formed a bond, we would never raise the issue with my mother, because she was so concerned, and we never did until after she died in 1974. >> jack kennedy, the president, called you clint, according to your book. any of the other presidents call you "hey agent"? >> only eisenhower. president johnson called me clint and a few other things. >> did he ever swear at you? >> in my presence, yes. at me?

i don't think so. >> i've got some audiotape -- you've probably heard this -- of mrs. kennedy and lyndon johnson talking after the assassination near the christmastime in december of 1963. let's listen. >> i hope that you are doing all right. >> oh, i'm doing fine, thank you. >> well, this congress is getting pretty rough up here, and i may have to send for you before it gets through. >> i hope you get home for christmas. will you? >> i don't know. >> you're so nice to call me, mrs. president. you must be out of your mind with work piled up. >>ive a few things to do, but not anything that i enjoy more than what i'm doing now. >> oh, you're nice. >> how's my little girl? >> she's fine, and john just has a jet plain. >> well, tell him hello and i wish all of you a merry christmas, and i wish i could

do something to make it happier for you. >> oh, no, you're so nice, and you've done everything you could. thank you so much. >> you know how much we love you. >> well, you're awfully nice. >> you don't know? >> no, i don't. well, yes -- >> you better know. all 180 million love you, dear. >> oh, thanks, mrs. president. >> and all the world, and i'll see you after christmas, i hope. if you ever come back here again, and don't come to see me, there's going to be trouble. you don't realize i have the f.b.i. at my disposal, do you? >> no, i promise i will. >> i'm going to send for you if you don't come back. >> good. >> someday they're going to create a traffic jam out there in georgetown. >> ok. >> you have a good christmas there. >> thank you. same to you. >> good night. >> good night. >> you spent a year with her after the assassination, and i think i read that you said she never wanted to look at that white house again. >> she had a difficult time.

very emotional for her. >> we moved out on december 6, moved to georgetown, and from that point on she did not want to go back. >> she went back with richard nixon there. >> eventually, yeah, she went back there, i believe it was -- i can't give you the year, but i think it was when her portrait was unveiled or something to that effect much >> 1971, i could be wrong, but let's go back to your situation. you were 28 and she was 31. >> correct. >> when you first met her. what are we hearing in this audiotape? is it accurate about either one of their personalities? >> oh, i think it's accurate for both of them, sure. >> that voice of herself is unmistakable, that's her. that's the way she talked. that's the way she acted. it's also president johnson. it was all sweetness and light when he wanted to be. it was a lot different when he didn't want to be. but that was him, that's the way he was.

>> who named this book, "mrs. kennedy and me"? >> it was a joint effort, but it was leasely mostly. >> who is lisa? >> she's the writer who actually should get credit for writing the book. she's a fantastic writer. you should talk to her sometime. >> we had you here several months ago to talk about the kennedy detail, the other book you did with gerald blaine. when did you decide to do this book? >> well, during the process of that, i only contributed to that book and wrote the forward, but lisa also wrote that book. she took the information that jerry blaine had put together and then worked on that and went to great lengths to obtain information for all the former agency contacts, and she put all that information together. it was in that process that she asked for my help, because i was in dallas. and jerry blaine, who wanted to

write that book, was not. and so they needed to talk to someone who had been there. and i got to know lisa and trusted her, had confidence in her. in the process, she convinced me that the information i had about mrs. kennedy was really historical and should be documented. and over a period of time, she convinced me that's what i should do, and some former white house reporters came to me and said, you know, we covered the president and mrs. kennedy. we were never permitted to interview her. we never really knew her. you did. you owe it to the american people and the public to document that and put it down on paper. so, after a while, i thought, well, i might just do it because i'm not getting any younger, so i decided to do it. >> when was this book actually finished writing? >> well, we had a deadline of september 1, which we didn't make, and we finished it on --

i believe it was november 1, 2011. >> since you were last here, the 8 1/2 hours of conversations between arthur schlesinger and mrs. kennedy have been released. here's just a small excerpt from it, and i want you to tell us -- again, this sounds like a different voice in what she was saying. >> it was so funny, because jack was thinking of being president and how awful it would be and so many things to do. but he never did them. i mean, he could have made his council on human rights or whatever it was into something -- you know, gone ahead with it, equal opportunity, whatever it was, he could have done more with it. he just never wanted to make any decision or do anything that would put him in any position. so, what he really liked to do was go in these trips, and he

never -- jack would say, you can never get an opinion out of lyndon on any cabinet or national security meeting. he'd just say, you know, that he agreed with him, just keep really quiet. >> were you there? >> i was in the house. i talked to arthur schlesinger before he went into the room to interview her on each occasion and after he came out, but i was not in the room during the interview. >> recorded in 1964, between march and june. but what i want to ask you, a book is out talking about the really, the distance between the kennedys and the johnsons and the difficulty that mrs. johnson supposedly had when he tried to come into the presidency after the assassination. what did you see there? did you see any of this? >> well, there was certainly a difference between the two. and over a period of time, in fact, it affected me in 1964, when i was transferred from mrs. kennedy back to the white house detail with president johnson as president.

one of the first things that happened was we went to the ranch for thanksgiving. and he spotted me as i was going from one post to another down there, and he put the word out to to the agents closest to him that he dent want me around, that he knew i had been with the kennedys, and he didn't think i should be there. and they told me about it, and youngblood talked to him and convinced him that i was there as a professional, i wasn't there as political, so he finally agreed to allow me to stay. >> when did you end up heading up his detail? >> two years later. >> and how did that go? >> well, it was just one of those things where it was going to be a change at the very top, and they had their choice between myself and another gentleman, and apparently they talked to the president, and i was selected for the job. >> what did you do with gerald

ford? >> i was the assistant director at that time. >> so you weren't on his detail? >> i was responsible for the men that were there. >> how much richard nixon? >> same with him. during his term in office, i was promoted to assistant director. >> what have you found that people expected from you in this book? you say no gossip, none of that. have people -- they saw the picture on the cover. some people say it implies these two were very, very close, closer than just agent to protectee. >> we were close. very close friends. very professional, but close. i mean, i knew a lot of her secrets, and she knew all of mine. so you're accurate by saying we were close. what i want people to get from the book is a better understanding of who she was, what she was like in that four-year period, because there have been a lot of books written, and most of it is -- most of it has been written by people who talk to friends of friends of friends, and they

don't have the information themselves. i happened to be there. i knew her. we had a direct relationship. so i finaled decided it was time to put it on paper and let people know what she was really like. >> did she ever get mad at you? if she did, when and why? >> i think she got upset a few times because of certain things that either happened -- but she wasn't the kind that really got mad. i'm trying to remember anything that really upset her. i remember when she was thrown from a horse, came off a horse because the activity of a photographer, she was mad, but not at me. she was mad at the photographer. i tried to get the film from him, couldn't get it. >> who was the photographer and what was that -- i remember reading it in the book, what were the circumstances? >> his name was marshall hawkins, and it happened out near gettysburg. she was riding with -- i think it was the orange county hunt,

and i was surveiling her in my vehicle. we didn't ride with her on horses, because the service thought it was too dangerous, too expensive. and so we surveiled her from a vehicle. and i noticed there was somebody down in the bushes, that they were going to have to jump. and before i could do anything, he stood up, mrs. kennedy and the horse approached the fence, the horse saw those photographers and just put its front hoofs into the ground, and mrs. kennedy went ride over the head of the horse, luckily over the fence with her hands and arms extended and did a roll, got right back up, got right back on the horse, and rode off. she wasn't hurt. but i was mad myself. i chased the photographer and finally got him, but i dent get the film. >> you were between 28 and like 32, and she was between 31 and 34, 35. >> that's right. >> when you knew her the most.

>> that's right, we were almost the same age, and when i was there in 1960, when i started with her, right after the election, caroline was then 3 years of age. i at that time had a young boy who was 4 years of age. and so we had that one child that was similar in age, and then john was born in 1960, and i had another boy in 1961. so we had children almost the same age. >> i went back and researched the years that the children were born, and caroline in 1957, a miscarriage in 1955, stillborn child in 1956. >> were include for that? no, you wouldn't have been. and john jr. in 1960. and then, of course, you mentioned patrick bouvier kennedy in 1963. what was it like for you to be around her when the children were born, and was the president there? >> when john was born in november 1960, the president was not there because he had come back to georgetown to be with mrs. kennedy and caroline

for thanksgiving. but he left that evening and flew back to palm beach. he was setting up his cabinet and everything. and when he left that evening to go to palm beach, i found that mrs. kennedy was going to go to bed for the night, so i went to my home. a couple of hours later i get a phone call. she had been taken by ambulance to georgetown hospital, so i rurbled over there -- so i rushed over there and john was born. the president was on his way to florida at the time. we go to get in touch with him until i got on the ground in florida. at that time, we were notified what was going on, he got on the press plane that was accompanying him, because it was faster. they turned it around and flew back to washington. so i got back early in the morning and came to the hospital to see mrs. kennedy and the new baby. >> how did you remember all this? >> it was just embedded in my mind. >> did you keep notes? >> i did, but i destroyed them a few years ago, which really made it more difficult. >> why did you destroy them?

>> i promised that i would never write a book. i vowed ever never do so, never contribute to a book, never talk to anybody about it, and so just to kind of make sure i would never get myself involved, i burned everything. plrp a few mementos i kept, but for the most part, i burned all my notes. and now, the opportunity presents itself and i decided to do it, i had to go back and talk to other agents who i worked with who did still have their notes, and check everything through newspaper archives for dates and times and places, to make sure i was accurate. so it was very tedious. >> do you remember the year you burned your notes? >> it was 2012. it was after -- maybe 2005.

something like that. >> so what changed your mind that you wanted to -- what really changed your mind? >> well, really, what i said, that this was historical, and what the white house reporters, former reporters told me, and also, the fact that i had read a number of books written about mrs. kennedy. and for the most part, lot of the information in there is not very true. i thought it was time somebody brought out the truth, what she was really like, what kind of a person she was. and that was one of the big reasons. >> you say that she lived in seven different houses when you were deparding her? >> well, let's see. is it seven? cape cod, palm beach, two in palm beach -- well, two in cape cod. that's four. she spent a lot of time on a farm in newport, that's five. middleburg is six. they had another house in

middleburg at seven. camp david, the white house. 3307 m street in georgetown. the harriman house in georgetown. another house across the street. a lot more than seven. >> why did she need all those different places? >> well, they left 3307 m street in georgetown to go to the white house, and then they sold it. after the assassination and she had to leave the white house, she didn't have a place to go. ambassador harriman offered his house for she and the children to live in, and they moved there and the harrimans moved to a hotel. then the house across the street became available, and so she bought that house. then over the course of time, the local bus company owner decided this would be a great tourist attraction, and he started running tourist buses by there, and we couldn't stop him. we tried. he refused to stop.

and so she finally decided it's time to move, and she decided to move back to new york city. and so we went to new york, and she found a place at 1040 fifth avenue. so that was another residence i forgot to mention. on the cape, they owned a house in the kennedy compound. but it got very congested there because of the business of the president. with all the press and everything else, so the first year they stayed in their own home, but realizing how busy it was, they had a place on the island the next two years. in fact, two different places, one was morton downey's house, the other house was another house. same in palm beach. but it just got to be too much for everybody, and so they had a friend who had a home, and

they leased a house from c. michael paul in palm beach. in middleburg, they leased a place, 400-acre place. well, the owner finally terminated the lease, so they had to build a house, and they built a house. we that was another house she lived in. >> what kind of trouble did that cause for you? >> well, it meant that every place that was a residence, we had to re-establish security and set up new communications, white house communications agency had to do that. so, you know, it caused problems. when she built the house in middleburg called wexford, we built in that house some security devices. then they decided to rent the house for the first summer. that created a problem. eventually she did move into the house and lived there a

very short period of time. >> you found yourself out there in middleburg, places like that, and cape cod, just with her and your own protection group, but she would -- the president wouldn't be there. how often were these two apart? it seemed like, i read, a lot. >> they were separated a lot because of his business, his traveling, and everything else. and she wanted to spend a lot of time away from the white house, and she did. she spent a lot of time in middleburg. we would go out there usually on friday and stay until at least monday, sometimes till tuesday. the president would come out saturday, sometimes friday, but usually saturday and return to washington sunday. >> what did you think of their relationship? >> from what i saw firsthand, i was there, they were a very loving couple, great deal of respect for each other, depended on each other and supported each other.

i saw nothing other than a very loving husband and wife, and very devoted parents to two children. >> i'm sure you've seen this, and i got to ask you about this because there's nothing about this in the book. here's an interview that was on nbc a couple of months ago. >> most mornings, when i woke up, i thought, i don't want to get up and write this book, i want to hide under the covers. >> what made you then get out from under the covers? >> when you keep a secret and when you keep silent about something, you do it because you think it's keeping you safe. but, in fact, it's deadly. >> the secret, claims alford, started in the summer of 1962, when the 19-year-old debutante from a prominent new jersey family began what she says was an 18-month affair with president john f. kennedy. the revelation was first revealed in 2003 when historian a it was written that a tall, slender, beautiful white house intern was rumored to be among the president's many paramours.

at the time, mimi declined to offer details. she issued a short statement and then disappeared. now she is talking and says that her first close encounter with the president took place in this indoor heated pool at the white house. the invitation came from the president's aide, david powers. >> had you heard this before she published her book? >> no, not really, no. >> did you read the book? >> part of it. >> what did you think? >> i questioned how she could get up in the morning and look herself in the mirror. >> why do you think she wrote it? >> money. >> i mean, i quoted in your book that they had a close, loving relationship, basically what you just said here. but when you read this book, she went all over the country to be with him, and right in the middle of the cuban missile crisis, she was supposedly in the white house, and you never saw any evidence of this?

>> i never saw her, never met her, never knew about her, never knew of her. now, i was with mrs. kennedy, and we were gone a lot. this allegedly happened in the 1962 area. in 1962, -- in early spring, we were in pakistan and india, i was there for about six weeks. in the summer, we were either in cape cod. so we weren't at the white house a great deal sometimes, but i never knew this person, never saw her. >> but your book is without any controversy in it whatsoever, and i wonder -- i mean, you were upset -- i know last time we talked about oliver stone's movie and gerald blaine was, what should we believe and what matters? >> well, i'm just telling it like it is, showing you what she was like. i have no reason to do otherwise.

people want to believe what they want to believe. nothing i can do about that. but this is mrs. kennedy as i knew her. this is our relationship, how it existed from 1960 to 1964 and beyond. there's just no reason to put anything there that's not true. >> if you go on amazon.com, there are 50-some reviews about your book and about 52 of them are five-star positives. have you read any of them? >> a few, but not very many. i'm not too great with a computer yet, but i'm learning. >> the reason why i mentioned that, i want to read one to you, and it's full of nothing but praise about your book. and then it says, i learned more than a few fascinating insights from this book. one, jackie was more of an athlete than i thought. it wasn't just ethel and the other ken tees who were the athletic gals. two, she was incredibly

self-centered. stop there for a minute. was she? >> somewhat, i would guess. but not completely. not overwhelmingly, no. >> and then three, i have a tad more empathy for president kennedy and his hound dog ways. jackie was missing in action a heck of a lot of the time. >> well, we were gone a lot. i just don't -- i don't know what was trance piring while we were -- what was transpiring while we were gone, so i can't comment on anything that's alleged about him. >> if mr. hill had opened up his personal life as he's at the the story, i think this could have been a much more powerful book. last sentence, anyone know how the hill kids turned out? did clint's wife divorce him? if not, she should get a medal. >> well, my wife and i are not together and haven't been for some time.

>> she's still alive? >> yes. i have two sons. they both live in the virginia area. they're both employed. they have children. and they're happy. >> do you have any regrets -- that's what they're getting at, that you were away 80% of the time. >> oh, sure, because my sons grew up without me. for all intents and purposes, they never really knew me. we're closer now than we were then because of that fact. so i have that regret. it put a very big strain on my marriage, there's no question about it. but it was my job. it was something i really enjoyed and wanted to do and did. >> you say you left the service , the secret service when you were 43 years old. >> yeah. >> and now, if i gather right, you're close to 80? >> i am 80. well, that's on the calendar i'm 80. >> but not on the calendar you're what, 60? >> 52. >> you had the bad period there. when was the bad period when you talk about living in the basement and drinking?

>> 1976 to 1982. about six months after i retired, and then until a doctor finally told me that it was either quit what i was doing or die. >> and what was it -- what were your days like? >> oh, just get up in the morning and drink. i didn't do anything. friends would come and see me. i wouldn't even respond to them i recall two of them coming. i was down in the basement on the couch. i never even got up. i didn't want anything to do with anybody. and didn't have anything to do with anybody. finally i started to snap out of it when the doctor convinced me that, you know, i had to change. i went cold turkey. it wasn't easy, almost wore out shirt pockets trying to get at the cigarettes that weren't there anymore, but over a period of time i just got better and better, until 1990, i was good enough, i went back to dallas, and that helped a

lot. >> and you that got you out of it in 1981? >> he told me i was going to die if i kept on what i was doing, because i was damaging every part of my body i could damage. and that apparently scared me enough to make the change, and so i did. >> in the book, you also talk about pain. can you describe the pain you're talking about? >> it's emotional pain. and some agents that i worked with still are going through that pain, and they will not even talk about the assassination. i was reminded every day about what had happened in some way or another, whether it was a news article, a tv show, a song, or anything else, it was something there that reminded me, and it really pained me, because i had failed.

nobody wants to be a failure. but i had failed in trying to protect the president, and i knew that, and it just killed me. >> we were talking in may, here's your picture in the paper today in "the washington post." >> i know that, and it's always there. it's a reminder, and i'm reminded all the time. but now, because of my contributing to the kennedy detail book, and now writing this book myself, have been able to emotionally kind of climb the ladder, thanks to lisa mccubbin, who helped me get out of the dungeon i was in. if it hadn't been for that, i would probably still be there. >> what was your reaction to "the post" piece, and looking at the secret service and the problems that came from colombia? what's your reaction to that? >> well, i was shocked when i heard about it. i'm very glad that the director took immediate action, and without prior to the time anybody knew about it, they

knew about it, and he took immediate action before any press inquiries or anything else, he took action. but i'm really saddened to know that the entire agency is being painted with the same brush, and so everybody has that sense that they don't trust him anymore probably, and yet, they continue to workday in and day out, right in the midst of all this, they take the president to afghanistan in the middle of the night, and he has a successful trip there and back. and that's what they do on a day-to-day basis. they shouldn't be blamed for something that nine or whatever the number is other people did, which was really wrong, irresponsible, extremely poor judgment. stupid is a better word for it all, and that's what they were. >> who's james raleigh? >> he was the director from

1961 until 1973. >> of the secret service? >> of the secret service. >> i don't know if we've ever heard this tape, but here's lyndon johnson and jim talking. >> don't make any questions in my name unless i approve tv. i think it's outrageous. another thing here, your damn secret service is right behind me every trip, and you're going to kill more people than you save t. doesn't do any good to be right close to me and all you're doing is running over little children and you ran over a man's foot here. i'm writing and apologizing for breaking his foot. and some of your man's gun is going to go off and cause more danger. i wsh you'd tell them to stay a little hit behind me so they don't try to run over the people that shake hands with me. >> yes, sir. >> i'm writing this fellow in georgia, his name is charles with wither, assistant chief of

police, secret service ran over him, broke his foot, now in a cast. that's what i've been telling him about. they like to stay right foot ahead of me. i don't know why. if they'd stay 30 yards behind, it would be so much safer. when i'm driving, i stop to hurry, they're liable to hit my bumper and break my neck. and then i told you about all those at the ranch, or did i. >> yes, sir, you did, sir. >> 26 mercury automobile according to fort motor company, and they think it's outrageous, and republicans are going to be writing stories on it. you had them at fredericksburg for months, and we couldn't use them when we were down there. >> i see, yes, sir. >> and you might need one or two in austin, but i sure wouldn't have ford there in 26. i haven't been home since before easter. >> that's right, sir. thank you, sir. >> so, what are you hearing? >> well, at least mr. rowe leave to talk to me, he would

talk to me in the same way and poke me in the chest at the same time, because that was about two feet from him. it was painful. but that was lyndon johnson, and that's the way he treated myself and everybody else. but i understood. he was just venting. that's what he would do, vent, and then he'd be fine, get it off his chest. >> i'm also looking at an obituary of the former dallas medical examine who examined everybody at the assassination, the police officer, lee harvey oswald, jack ruby, and all the people who were involved in that day, but the secret service didn't allow him to do an autopsy on president kennedy. why? >> because it was going to take too long. first of all, vice president johnson was in dallas as well.

and we wanted him to leave. he would not leave until mrs. kennedy was ready to go. mrs. kennedy wouldn't leave without the president's body. so we wanted to get the president's body back to washington. we thought since he was president of all the people, the autopsy should be done in washington. done at a military facility, either walter reed or bethesda. so they said in dallas, the medical examiner, dr. rose, and others, that the law said that they had to do the autopsy there in dallas, since the homicide had occurred in dallas. we understood the law, and a judge came in and even told us this was a law, there's nothing you can do about it. we finally said, we're going to have to go anyway, and so they finally acquiesced and said ok, then you have to have a medical professional go with the body and stay with it all the time, and we did. i understand the article indicates that they let us go because mrs. kennedy wanted to

leave mrs. kennedy even had a conversation with dr. rose or any conversation regarding leaving. >> if he had been able to do his job, he would have been able to dispel the theories. >> there are theories, removing a body and putting a department body in the casket and all other kinds of things, which are absolutely stupid, ridiculous, and dumb. nothing was done in any way changed the outcome. the body was taken to bethesda in maryland. the autopsy was performed under the observation of f.b.i. agents and secret service agents. and the results are known. >> as an aside, by the way, a

fellow we talked about in the last interview, have you seen a letter about your book? >> i've not read it, no. >> i'm sure you know he said that mrs. kennedy and me is highly recommended to everyone for its honesty and rich body of truth. he actually fully endorsed your book, even though he's been critical -- >> well, i'll accept it. maybe he's had some secret agenda, i don't know. but i accept his praise, thank you. >> in your book, you say you and mrs. kennedy never talked about the assassination. why not? >> well, i was not going to bring it up, and she never did. it was something she really didn't talk about with anyone. even today. if you go to the kennedy library in boston, you'll find that the assassination, there was only one reference to it,

at the very end of a tour that people take, there's simply the walter cronkite statement. other than that, there's no reference to that whatsoever. the entire library is based on his life and his legacy. >> you say that when she slept, you slept. >> yeah. which wasn't much. >> how did you do this? there are only a couple of you taking care of her, i mean, if you were asleep, she was asleep, who was protecting her? >> well, field agents supplemented for the midnight shift n. new york, an agent would be there to work when we didn't work. but when we -- when she moved, we were with her. and we had field office agents supplementing even then. to drive us around, we didn't know new york city that well. field office agents did. they knew where to go, they had great contact. we wanted to go to a certain restaurant, they would get in

touch with that restaurant and set it up for us. so they did a lot of our work for us, but we accompanied her all the time. >> so after the assassination and you were there in dallas, how did you approach the next 48, 72 hours? what was your life like? >> i was completely devoted to making sure that she was ok, that whatever she needed, we were going to make sure she had . i didn't get hardly any sleep. the morning of the 23rd, i went home about 6:00 in the morning, just shower, shave, came right back to work, and worked until midnight that night, and finally went home, got a few hours of sleep. same way for the rest of that week. and on thanksgiving day, that following thursday, we flew to massachusetts so she could talk to his father. it was something we had to do, because there weren't any other people to take our place, and we knew that she would want us

with her, and we wanted to be with her. >> and so where were you during that time period? where exactly did you go with her? >> every place she went. >> what was her life like in those days? >> well, we left bethesda hospital with the body at about 4:00 in the morning on the 23rd. i went back to the white house. the body was placed in state in the east room. she and some members of the family were there. she then went to the second floor. i went to my office, which was on the ground floor. when i found out that she had gone to sleep and she was in for a while, i we want home, shaved, showered, change the clothes, ate something, came back. then during the day that day on the 23rd, she began to set plans for the funeral. and she had sargent shriver, her brother-in-law, set up an office in the white house and worked with other people, and she wanted it done a certain

way, and they did it that way. that afternoon, i took her over to arlington national cemetery. we met the secretary of defense there, mcnamara, and they walked around the area looking where they wanted the president to be buried. they picked out the spot. and we we want back to the white house -- and we went back to the white house. the next morning was sunday the 24th. the body -- there would be a service in the east room for the family and staff. then the body would be taken to the capitol. president and mrs. johnson would come over to the white house, because they were living at the elm, his personal residence, and they would pick she and the children up and accompany president kennedy's body to the u.s. capitol to be placed in state. but before that happened, i was over in the east wing of the white house conferring with my

boss, harold baines, and the phone rang, and it was the general, air force aide to president kennedy, saying mrs. kennedy and robert kennedy were on the main floor of the white house, and they wanted to see the president's body. so i ran over, and we opened the casket to make sure everything was ok and allowed them to go see the president. in the process, she asked me to get her a pair of scissors. i got the scissors, and she did what she wanted to do, and then she and -- >> she cut a piece of his hair off? >> yes, she did. >> what did she do with it, do you know? >> i do not know. she had it, but i don't know what she did with it. >> also, the guards that were around the casket, what was the instruction? >> well, at first the general asked the officer in charge to have the guards move out of the room, the east room, and she said, oh, no, just have them

turn around so we can have some privacy. that's what they did. they took three steps back and faced away from the casket, and that's when she and bobby kennedy went up and looked at the president in the casket. >> why did she decide to walk to st. matthews? how far would you say that's away from the white house? >> well, it's less than a mile, i suppose. but she wanted to walk the entire roof. >> see the capitol? >> all the way, capitol, down to the white house, the capitol, back to the white house, to saint matthews, to arlington. but finding out that all these heads of state were going to be there, some of them in their 80's, she finally acquiesced and said, ok, only walk from the white house to saint matthews. even then, that was a problem, but you couldn't talk her out of it. i tried, but couldn't. >> there's more to the story of the salute from john kennedy jr. he had been taught to salute

before that day. what was it? >> well, back in early november, mrs. kennedy came to me and said, president kennedy is going to go to arlington national cemetery on november 11 to pay tribute to the troops. >> the agents that were working with him, bob foster, they started to work with him. and they got him going pretty good. he saluted quite well. most of the time he was using his left hand, and he was then 3. not quite. he went, and did he very well. so during the process of the

funeral, we were out in the capitol, and he got rambunctious and agents took him down the hall, and they tried to figure out what to do to keep him busy, so they had him practice his salute, and he always did it with his left hand. there was a marine colonel stand negotiated doorway watching him, just shook his head, came walking in, the guy wasn't there, and this is what the agents told me. came walking in, and said, john, you've got it all wrong, and he showed him how to salute. and that stuck with him. did he learn how with his right hand. it took the agents forever to try to teach him to do it, and he just didn't quite get it. and this marine colonel, it took him about two minutes maybe, and he taught him how to salute. and the day of the funeral, as the president's body was removed from the church, placed on the caisson to go to arlington, mrs. kennedy just bowed down and said into john's

ear, salute your father, and he did. >> we're about out of time. when you were working on the ford detail, president ford was either shot at twice or two women were in prison because of what they did. did they actually shoot at him, both of him? >> that happened one month after i retired. >> oh, it did? >> but one of them actually did shoot at him. the bullet went over his head. another one, the gun didn't go off because an agent jammed his thumb between the hammer and the cylinder. >> the reason i bring it up, we only have a minute left or so, knowing what you've been through, living the bad years when the drinking and all that stuff, what would you recommend , god forbid this happened again, what would you recommend to somebody that is doing what you did to avoid this kind of personal difficulty? >> willingly seek council -- counsel. talk to people about what you've gone through. get it out. holding it in is what caused me

the problem. i dent talk to anybody, other agents, my family, anyone. i kept everything inside, and that's what really got me. >> the end of the book before the epilogue, you write in the last couple of sentences, we had been through so much together, mrs. kennedy and me, more than anyone can imagine, and then you end it by saying more than anyone can ever know. is there a lot that we don't know, lot kept out of this book? >> oh, not a lot kept out of the book. yes, she and i had secrets. they're not in the book because that's what they are, secrets. a few of them are revealed about her smoking. most people didn't know that. >> 3 1/2 packs a day? >> well, i don't know if that was that much. my smoking, perhaps, yeah. but her, no, not that much. also she loved to read tabloids. >> and you had to go get them. >> i was the buy that had to buy them, but there was a lot of secrets she and i had. they'll always remain secrets. >> you're not going to put them

somewhere in a bottle and hide them until 50 years from now? >> no, i don't plan to do that. >> clint hill, author, special agent, united states secret service, the book is called "mrs. kennedy and me." [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> for a d.v.d. copy of this program, call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts to give us comments, visit us at qanda.org. they're also available as podcasts. >> next sunday on "q and a" --

>> i think the problem with walter cronkite, people see him only as the friendly man, which he was to everybody, but there was another side of him that wanted to be the best. he was obsessed with ratings and beating huntley-brinkley report every night. he is probably the fiercest competitor i've ever written about, and i've written about presidents and generals and cronkite's desire to be the best was very pronounced. >> douglas brinkley on his new buy graph of long-time cbs news anchor, walter cronkite, next sunday at 8:00 eastern and pacific, here c-span. >> next, live, your calls and comments on "washington journal." then live at 10:50 a.m., president obama lays the wreath at the tomb of the unknowns and offers remarks at the memorial day ceremony at arlington national cemetery. at 1:00 p.m. eastern, we'll have the president live at the observance at the vietnam memorial. he's joined by defense

secretary leon panetta, joint chiefs of staff chairman martin dempsey, and interior secretary ken salazar. >> people want to be free from want and to escape daily struggle for survival. but this is not what stirs the human soul or bridges the seemingly unageable cultural divide. that bridge is the burning desire for liberty. gin a choice between tyranny and freedom, people will choose freedom. people want the best for their children, and they want their creativity and hard work to be rewarded. people want the freedom to speak their minds, to choose those who will lead them, and the right to embrace their faith. >> watch commence am speeches by notable figures from the path three decades online at the c-span video library. the c-span video library. >>