talkssweeney ndann about broadcast. some of the network television's are involved in lawsuits that

allows of years to skip over commercials. we will hear from charles irwin in an hour. then eric schmidt. >> sunday -- >> people sink walter cronkite as the friendly man. there is another side of him that one is to be the best. he was assessed with ratings. he is probably the fiercest competitor. there is the desire to be the best. it was very pronounced. >> douglas brinkley on walter cronkite here on c-span.

>> the head of disney television anne sweeney talks about the head of television and technology. she sat down with alan murray to talk about the implications as streaming content over the internet. this is hosted by "the wall street journal." >> thank you. this sounds of something we all need to. thank you for coming, especially on the heels. how did they go? >> the morning. i hope we do. we are missing the second hour. this went very well. we're looking at a strong marketplace. we were coming out of a strong quarter. there of be a lot of new product

launches. -- there will be a lot of new product launches. i am encouraged by our strong schedule across the board. >> use that our bachelors do not stay engaged -- you said our bachelors do not stay engaged but our audience does. jimmy said cbs is done with the 18-49 trips to the bathroom demographic. >> that is not true. >> cbs is actually doing pretty well with the younger demographics. >> cbs does well on total viewers. i give them great credit for a lot of these shows they put on. abc is different. if you look a what we did last year, we have the number one drum and "grey -- drama in

"grey's anatomy." we have a very strong base to build a new schedule for the season. >> any new shows you are excited about? >> all of them. we are at that wonderful moment or everything is possible and everything looks great. i want to stay there for a couple more minutes. not only the new shows, that some of the scheduling was very smart. revenge was the most buzz about drama of the year produced by abc stereos. it is a very smart move. >> viewerships for prime time is going down. we saw it drop in the past year. >> no. looks at how you define

broadcast your ship. we look at a very broadly. one thing she talked about was looking at it across all screens. we have been working with nielsen to make sure we have truly accurate measurements. way ofe moved from one measuring television. we have some advertisers who are working in c7. we have to add abc.com numbers to that in our mobile apps. >> you are not concerned about the fact that traditional broadcast your ship is down? >> no, we see television holistic lead. we have a number of contents engines just in our division alone. we also have espn. lee had the movie studio.

if you look at the disney channel portfolio and abc and we areeat work of abc fo, producing a tremendous amount of unscripted material that is seen on a variety of screens. i see a very bright future. >> one of the reasons why i was eager to be you here, you have been aggressive on pushing to other screens and other platforms on to digital. it is a bit of a jump into the dark. you are not making a lot of money on its. you are not making a lot of money. >> you have to remember in the early days of any technology, do you remember when television came out? everyone said, of who will want it that everyone loved their radios -- who will want it?

everyone loved their radios. then television happened. it did not kill radio or movies. everyone figured out who they were. changes always been part of our industry. it is moving to color tv, hd, plasma. look at all the ways we're looking on the set at home. and it is a ball or die. what digital gave us -- evolve o whatr digital gave us de. -- and it is evolve or die. what digital gave us was the video ipod. i remember that i am so addicted to buy iphone that it seems a natural progression. >> is that a good business?

>> yes. it connects us to our viewers. >> you do not make the kind of profits? >> they're very different business models. one is 30 years old and one is a few years old. they are apples and oranges. >> once people start consuming video that they're pulling down over digitally, you go from a limited group of competitors to an unlimited group. you have the jay-z channel, the wall street journal channel. there is infinite competition. doesn't that affect the value? >> no. a lot ofays had competition. we have always competed with leisure time activities and video games. we have competed with not just other television shows and

channels. i love competition. it is the healthiest thing for our industry. what you really have to pay attention to and what will set us apart are the brands that we have at the walt disney company. it is disney. it is abc. it is a marvel. we have a tremendous amount of strength. those brands are meaningful. they can withstand, as long as we keep irrelevant. my very simple definition of a brand is a relationship you have with your consumer. it has to be as important and as current as their relationship you have with your family and your friends.

in the company. the research is not do you like this show are that show. to the research is more along the lines of what is going on in your life? what kind of entertainment are you experiencing? how? we have learned that we know disney is a brand. we understand that. we 3uple of years ago a abc in the mix. we discovered there were two television brands that popped bc showsle, ananc were higher. people knew what an abc show was.

paul started to touch on that. he started to speak to the abc brand. >> how much is disney? >> it is interesting. disney and abc share a true quality. they are defined by quality. they are defined by the stories that they tell. they tell extremely good stories. highly developed characters. when you look at abc news, i see many of the same similarities. i see great journalists. i see tremendous anchors who deliver this information in a way that is relevant and important to the american people. i think that is the

distinguishing characteristic. that is what will continue to set us apart. >> we talked about declining broadcast your ship. -- viewship. ership. people a spinney an average of five hours a day watching video. -- people are spending an average of five hours a day watch a video. is that a good thing? >> it is if they are watching our videos. >> there's nothing they do as much as that then sleep. >> the most tweeted thing last year was television, more than any other subject. it is not completely passive appeared that is something to think about. that is what the new technology gives us.

what ever you are doing, you are interacting with your community about our television content. i think that is something we were missing when we were just a flat screen at home. >> much more interactive. can you give us some examples of interactivity that you are working in to your television? >> one thing we have been doing with "dancing with the stars" is voting. it seems like a simple idea. you can text or vote at abc.com. communities of people, there are these very simple first steps that were relatively easy to take have actually spurred a larger community involvement in our shows. >> but there also disagreeing with the judges. >> they are. >> can you tell us who's going

to win? >> no. i wish i knew. >> talk about the comcast deal. that was an extraordinary agreement. tell us why you did that. >> i believe the comcast deal expanded the scope of our industry. it expanded our opportunities. did the most important piece of it was that both comcast and the what disney company -- walt disney company realize how fast we needed to be to our viewers. that was into the comcast deal in many different ways. espn had gone first with time warner with "watch espn." >> as long as to authenticate the you are a subscriber. >> that is something they did

with comcast as well. it was the first time that abc/disney did that. we will be launching our disney channel as "disney watch" next month. it is very exciting. it created such excitement inside of disney. we traded a beta -- created a beta. you will see a light streaming disney channel. you will have on demand content. i have a bill baker to signing that contract. when you signed that contract, i realize the great stuff we were doing with the great brands of

disney channel. it was really bringing it that much closer. we did research. we videotaped the the research so we would have a chance to see the way kids and parents were talking about it. we have a moment where a mom was sitting next to her daughter and the researchers said "tell me about what you are doing." she said "i am watching my show and i can see myself curled up on the couch with my ipad." when would you hear the would curl up on the couch with your ipad? people need to be able to take us with them. >> you are indifferent to what screen they what you are and

that's what i am. our audience is going to watch -- watch you on? >> i am. our guardians is going to watch us. it is going to be one of the big screen experiences. i believe that no one will want to miss it. you will be able to see it on your ipad or phone. >> a lot of that is on demand. but you have statistics on how much of your viewing is on demand versus live? >> low double digits on demand. it is continuing to grow. it'll be interesting to look at the difference between kids using on demand and adults using on demand. >> kids seem to be using it more. >> are remember doing focus groups a couple of years ago and

watching the moderator as the kids' questions about what they were doing is asking the kids questions about what they were doing. the kids are doing a lot of movement with their hands. we realized what does this mean? when i am a carpel, my mom cancer iphone back to me. -- carpool, my mom hands her iphone back to me. we're living in a world of kids that is very different when i started at disney channel. we're living in a world of touch screen. >> there is a video of a one- year-old baby playing with a magazine and going like this. the captain says "this magazine doesn't work." [applause]

nickelodeon said the kids' interest in video on demand was actually hurting them. they are seeing people migrate to netflix. are you seeing that at all? are the disney channel's prepared for a big move to video-on-demand? >> we have seen our ratings go up. nickelodeon -- the disney channel beatnik bolivian with a 6-14 year olds -- beat nickelodeon with 6-14 year olds. netflix is a great opportunity for us. with their abc series, they do go on at the end of the season.

we do have a couple of exceptions. we have to that start 15 days after they have gone on our cable channel. >> what scares you? what causes you to say we better be prepared? >> it is what we do not know yet. one of the things that i preach and debt,y at war anork is paying attention to what is going on. -- and home, is paying attention to what is going on. we create what happens next. it is being ahead of the audience. when the ipad come out, we went to the presentation. we saw it. in our staff meeting, we asked the question, if you could do anything with that device, what would you do?

everyone thought about it and came back. the first thing that came up -- we would do an app for abc news and we would do abc.com. we would create that app. the goal was to be ready for launch today. we were ready. he never really know how many bugs you have until you are out there. our digital team decided to monitor people testing out our app on twitter. we established our first customer service departments. as people were racing to the apple store and buying the ipad and seeing what was available, abc.com came up only started to edsitor the twitter fed

and the bugs. i just heard from abc. they heard that i had a problem and they're going to fix it. at 4:00 they will release a new version. it was an interesting process for us. it is also important to note that the abc.com app is the sixth miost downloaded ipad free app of all time. >> we went through a sort of the same experience. we had an app at the launch. it was adopted and popular. the relationship with apple is far from perfect. >> really? >> yes. but i do not want to turn this interview around. we would get to that later. how do you figure relationship has been? >> i think it is strong in

productive. we're providing important products. the beginning of that was supplying our shows to itunes and taking that great leap into the unknown. we did not know that it would work. we had a very strong feeling that it was a good thing to do. we believe in this device. we saw how they were going to manage the i tunes stores. we had a criteria developed of the type of people we would want to work with. who companies had to be. they had to have integrity. they had to be high quality and connected to their consumers. apple did all of that. >> where does this kodak how much viewership will be on -- go? how much of your ship will be on apple devices? >> when it is being driven by the mill in yale's, i believe if

you need to know something you should ask a nine year old. they are proficient. when they hit that stage of their lives, when they're in the 18-24 range, i think a lot of video viewing will be on digital devices. i do not think all of it will be television. television has become so much better and so much bigger. it is really a movie experience and a lot of homes. i do believe they will play a role. i think what will become critically important for us is that we have absolutely the best measurement of all of these devices. we can monetize our content. >> let's talk about your global business, particularly disney. disney has become a global brand. >> we have 103 disney channels

and 167 countries. >> can you name them all? >> i can. that have been in a short space of time. it seeks to the power of the brand. i was in russia in march. we launched a disney channel there in january. it is free to air. it is a model that we do use for disney channel in russia, turkey, and spain. it is different from the cable business in the u.s.. >> the advertising market support that? >> and they do. i asked our country manager if she would take me into a classroom. i wanted to meet our new disney channel viewers. we had only been on the air for less than 90 days. i started out, i was curious about who they were and what stories were important to them. i want to know what their favor

lullaby was. we got a round two stories on television. 25% of the kid's name one of ours as their favorite television show. i thought less than 90 days in the marketplace in bay where resonating. it is a very important fact for us. there is a lot of local production. it depends on when the disney channel launched. we do have a lot of original production. it makes you feel that this is your disney channel. it is not an export. >> how much of your revenues come from outside the united states back? >> we do not split it up. it is really healthy. >> univision is attracting

domestic hispanic audiences with english language content. >> exactly. >> can you give us more textured? you have a lot of reinforcements. >> said this is a very exciting and venture. -- this is a really exciting venture. this is a service that is built for the fastest growing in yen is democratic in the united states. we are building its with univision. it is an absolutely amazing media partner. we will go mobile with the election. you will see the launch next year. >> what does univision bring?

>> they bring a deep and embedded knowledge of the audience. they bring tremendous information to our company and to the news division. i believe they will be great partners in the creation of relevant importance. >> you started this by mentioning the morning america. the today show has dominated that top place for a long time. how important is that to your business? >> it is really important. this is bigger than eight labor of love. it is a terrific show.

it belongs in the number one spot. i've long believed that good morning america and opens the day for the television network. i think they have earned that spot. >> can you talk a little bit about the economics of the show? it is important symbolically and economically. >> it is. there are very help the budget for morning television. we certainly have enjoyed the beneficiaries of the budget. there is money to be made in the morning. >> are your demographics in the morning different than "the today show?" >> our network overall is

probably more female than nbc. i would say the demographics are probably comparable in the morning. >> news. the importance ofnew news. abc does not have a table news channel like cnn. does it matter that can you really have a strong presence in it news without real time? >> you can. the suspense out for a couple of years. as i watched our digital world involved in people turned to their ipads and iphones, i believe it was a step that we

missed. we did not miss a step. meaning that because of the devices that we now have access to, because of the construct, i look at what we have some of our partnership with yahoo! it tremendous growth. i feel that we are very well positions without having a 24/our network. >> no. need to go back? >> no. i am very happy about our future. you asy baker mentioned one of 10 women likely to become ceo at disney or someplace else. is that -- i should also point out that you're the first person was been on this stage in a

business position u.s. of been a ceo. we're delighted to have you. is that something you want? where do you see your career going? >> i never aspired to a title ever. i have really charted in my career based on what i was curious about it. i started at nickelodeon because i was curious about the idea that you could have 24/hours of kids' programming. what would that mean? i went to fox to launch fx because i never launched a cable network from scratch without an infrastructure. i went to disney because you are insanely curious about how they do it. i thought there must be a book somewhere. someone will tell you how they

do it. this is how they build those parks. i had a great curiosity about the what is the company. that is what guided me. that will guide by next step. -- my next step. i look at what we have done over the last 16 years that i have them with the company. in the past five years especially have just been the most exciting in the most appealing years of my career. >> parts of the reason we did that story, if you look at the ranks of fortune 500 ceos right now there are 18 that are women. it is an amazingly small number. as somebody who has fought your way up the ranks, why do you think that is? >> i do not know. i do think there should be more

women. i know many talented women in our industry. we can point to so many women that we know who have achieved great things. >> have you felt it has been more difficult for use as a 1 index >> i think the mice -- as a woman? >> i think myself as a person. i believe that i am judged every single day on what i bring to the table. i'm just amazed successes. i'm just on my failures. i can judge how i grow this division. i do not think about it along gender lines. it is about performance. there are lots of women in delivering great performances. >> this is always a very yeasty audience. did you have lots of questions. -- they will have lots of

questions. >> you have talked about the transition that is happening digitally. can you talk about how the measurement is keeping up? we're going to see a little tiny company price with a bigger market cap. it is all about people looking at things like things. children live on these devices. is the traditional way in which your audience is measured keeping up to allow you to sell under advertising? >> you make a great point. i think measurement is the key to a healthy future. we are working very closely with nielsen in have been working with them on a number of projects to make sure that we capture not only the eyeballs

and knowing how many viewers, but who they are and do it in a way that respects privacy. it is key. they are working on it. >> part of it is knowing where the eyeballs are. can you command the same kind of advertising dollars? >> i do believe if you can say to an appetizer this is who i have come i am delivering -- to an advertiser comments this is to i am delivering comment these consumers that you want for this brand launch comedy will get them. -- delivering these consumers that you want for this brand launch, and you will get them. i'm anxious to have our

technologists get in there and see what it actually means. >> question right here. other questions? right here. >> if you consider the fact that the duress or using these new technologies are younger, do you imagine that sometime within the next 10 or 20 years it is possible that you not ever have to schedule anything in a traditional way and that it will all be on demand? abc will issue a list and instead of having the upfront fee delivering the new schedule, it will be a list of shows and

how you can get to them? >> that is an interesting question. it could be 20 years from now. people using these devices are not necessarily younger and younger. i thought that too. ut, ithe isopopod came o said this must be a big 12-80 market for you and he said it was for anyone that likes music. regardless if you are a kid or a boomer. it is a long way off. as i looked at this and we were formating a presentation, i was thinking about how we were laying it out and what it meant.

i realized as i saw it go out on the big screen for the 20th time that what we were telegraphing to people was actually very important. we were telegraphing when we stack america's funniest home videos and the we go in to "once upon a time" we're sending the messages about how the battle of the shows are. it tells you who the audience is. we're also telegraphing that this is abc. you have expectations about abc. i think the network's schedule will remain useful for people. everything that we have is on demand right now. >> i am sorry. >> it is not a number of devices. >> there's also a social experience. when my kids were in their early

teens, i knew the one time of the week that i could get my whole family into one place was during "american idol." i always stress, because i knew they would be there. in some ways, the interactivity may enforce that. they want to talk to their friends what they're watching their shows. how powerful is that kind of social experience? >> it is more powerful now. as people are experiencing television, there was one season of the bachelor that we were addicted to. >> which one? >> alley. we loved that one. it was so interesting because i

would watch the east coast feed at home and she is at college on the east coast. if we were not on the phone, we were texting about it. we know people are tweeting because we see it. we know this conversation is going on which makes that show so much bigger than it was before this technology existed. >> that is interesting. >> over here. >> we are working on it. my question is more about the marketing of the shows. as all of the technology changes how viewers get to the program, how do you think differently about marketing? can you talk a little bit about

that? >> we still start with the essence of the show. we make sure we are all able to identify what the show is about them what its importance is in the schedule. and who is the audience? then we start to plot and plan how we launched. some of it is when we launch. it turns into cutter fest where everyone has the most dramatic and funny show on television. part of it is being strategic about when we launch. then there is also how we launched. is this a show where social media is very important? we make this determination. then we work through the marketing plan and determine what are the best venues for reaching the intended audience.

it is a strategic exercise. no two shows are alike. we have a few new shows on a schedule this fall which is helpful. the year that we launched desperate and lost, it was the fall of 2004. we looked at our budget and said not a lot of money here. we have to be strategic. we pay to three properties to launch. -- picked three properties to launch. you painted a picture of an unpredictable environment. how do you manage a business that's how you plan a business and that environment -- manage a business? have you plan a business in that environment? >> if you go back to the history of walt disney and his work in

animation and how important it is to invest in research and development, that is what our development is. the second thing is working with people who are excited about the future as you are and to are as willing to pay attention to the consumer. that is a very critical piece. every time a piece of technology has come out whether it is the iphone or the ipad, i made sure everyone on my team had one as close today one as possible. we bring all of these devices into our staff meetings and talk about what they can do for the what disney company. what can they do for abc news, abc entertainment, abc family. how is your audience using the index of find out. -- them?

find out. these pieces are critical to building a business model and understanding that we are creating in revaluating the business models that we are using. we're not relying on the past. we believe that it will make a successful in the future. we have to stay one step ahead, thinking about how we are measured. thinking about the use the devices and how they are useful to advertisers and what our role will be. >> i want to ask you a question. my prejudice is that devices and social media are tools for people to interact. they're not concepts. i am a believer that contact is still king.

contact has shifted over the last two years between reality shows, scripted shows, it does gone back and forth. where you see the shift happening in the next five years? >> it is a great question. i do not disagree with you. i think social media is a very important tool. on the other side, it is dependent on the mood of the nation. one of the things that paul has spoken about last year and this year is being responsive. during a recession, after a crash, we looked back at the movies that were popular in the 1930's. we looked at the shows that were popular in the 1970's. that informed the couple of choices for us last year. "revenge" was a very satisfying

show for. also "once upon a time" had fantasy with reality and drama in it. paul is launching a drum up "666 park avenue." the building will become one of the characters. >> is there a real 666 park avenue? >> i do not think so. in the new yorker is welcome to correct me. scary things worked very well. >> what better place than new york? >> there you go. we love new york. >> i want to go back to the questions that alan was asking

around competition, a proliferation of entertainment opportunities, and implications. taking it away from disney and abc specifically, there is an alternative to the narrative that said when television came up everyone thought it was the death of everything else. we have seen in the recent years a different dynamic. the record industry has lost most of its economic value. it is moving into newspapers and magazines and starting to move into radio. as you look at slow gdp growth relative to fixed ad budgets, if you leave the walt disney company a loan for a second and look at the video and television industry, it is hard not to

imagine that someone in the value chain loses. there is not an infinite amount of money either on the outsider on the consumer side. cmos are fundamentally shifting their advertising and marketing mix. who loses? >> the people who lose are the people who do not understand their consumers and not paying attention to them, people who do not have a strong brand. if they do have a strong brand, they are not continuing to build it. i think we have seen throughout the history of business. they had this product. they got stock. >> those are individual companies.

there are other elements of that do not generate it. are there pieces of the chain that are structurally at risk the dax as opposed to companies -- at risk as opposed to companies individually? >> none that i can name and when the state television stations. -- i would not say television stations. the tv stations connection with their audience is incredibly deep and very important and plays into the success of the network. seven of these are number one. this speaks volumes to the effort that is made. i do not have an answer. >> cable is a huge and profitable business.

everything best buy sells now is internet enabled. does that come with a delivery pipeline? >> i believe the strong cable brands have always been platform agnostic. i think the brands really will really well with the technologies that are out there. >> other questions? >> how do you see your relationship with me the agencies that i represent a media agency -- agencies? i represent a media agency. how can we work better together? >> the big idea for us is that we should be together at the forefront of reed inventing advertising. i think we should be thinking in very big and bold and about what

advertising will look like 10 years from now. what should look like on a mobile phone? what will it look like on a device that has not been created? we all need to move beyond. we have done great things together. we have done integrations. we have done interested to work. i think there is a whole new chapter to be written. i think it needs to be written together. >> is there a campaign you can point to? >> i started to see some glimmers of it in the work that we did on the oscars this year. this is working with the motion picture academy and making sure we can get the word out.

we started to get a little experimental of how we brought back. this is not a major advertiser. we are having conversation right now with agencies and clients and trying to figure out the way for words. that is different than the way we're doing it right now. >> i am really curious about the univision and 87 collaboration. they have incredible histories. the you think about abc news for traditional news has been more oriented toward domestic issues. you what univision and it really did make immigration into a big topic. probably a category by itself. when you are thinking about a new service that is targeting

english-speaking latinos, what is the news filtered? what will we see differently than what we have seen so far? >> i do not know that i would call it a filter or i would characterize abc news as a domestic organization. i traveled the world with diane sawyer. there's not an important story that we have not discovered but that we have actually physically been there. i think that we bring that great journalism. i think we bring that world and to the univision partnership. your point and immigration is a good one. strength of to the univision. univision knows its audience better than anything else. that is why we want to partner with univision. we want to reach this fast growing demographic.

we want to reach them with abc news, up with this information and lifestyle programming. that is what we are relying on. that is more at of a criteria. it will determine what we broke foboth bring to this. ?> other questions ta way there in the back. >> i wanted to follow up. what do you think the likelihood that they go ahead with its? what is the industry's response? what do you do? this is an important part of your model. >> i do not know what dishes going to do with it. we have to hear from them.

we're sending our technology people out to fully understand what this technology is about. we have read very little. we have seen a lot of reaction. our advertisers are extremely important to us. many networks have spent a lot working with our advertisers, talking about opportunities that exist for the two of us with the fall season coming up. i believe it is a tbd. we need to hear more. are they going to charge for its? is it free? where is this going? what is that business going forward? fit in? this piece that ind >> i was curious what you

thought of in area that was backed that gives you live string television to any mobile devices. >> i read about that, too. we really do not have any comment on that at the moment. >> have you seen that technology? >> i've only read about it. >> introduce yourself. clearly the cable business is very robust. there are really 50 ones that matter today. the we were all developing our cable networks. how does a company like disney

responds? what do they do when they take advantage of the 80 million homes that they have? >> i think it will boil down to how important they are to consumers. do they have must have programming? are people going to go to them five times a day because they have to see it tha? it always comes back to quality and relevance. is this something that is really important to your life? i do not think that every channel survives. i think we saw 30 years ago with cable there were so many start- ups.

we remember rctv. we remember the merged into lifetime. we remember friendly mean to do start-ups that petered out are merged into something else. -- or merged into something else. >> right over here. >> i am your basic nightmare in that i refuse to own a television set today. am i clear and understanding that all of your program is moving to online so i can watch it on my computer? >> we have been online since the fall of 2006. that is when we launched abc.com. we launched a beta with 10

of our advertisers in the spring of 2006 and determine that we were onto something. it looked good. that has continued to evolve. the site has changed a lot of the last six years. now it is offered on mobile phones. it is an app you can download to your ipad as well. >> i am going to give our final word to our sponsors. before i do that, a couple of quick reminders. piquancy video clips on wsj.com -- you get a video clips of this on wsj.com. a spectacular dialogue. are co-sponsors -- our co-

sponsors for orchestrating this. we will be here in a few weeks with another great discussion and will be ending the year with moonves, and we will play the appropriate clips from this. [laughter] thank you all for coming. [applause] >> the addition network and broadcast television networks are in lawsuits over a digital recorder that allows viewers to skip over commercials. then commencement speeches from google executive chairman eric schmidt and xerox ceo ursula

burns. on "washington journal" tomorrow morning, jay kos will give his observations about the democratic party. we will look at finance reform and the losses at j.p. morgan with kara kennedy and the progressive change committee. washington journal is live on c- span every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern. the founder and chairman of the dish network says it will build a network to compete with verizon and at&t. he talked about the future of broadband at the university of colorado law school in boulder in april. this is just over an hour. >> i will distort by introducing

charlie ergen. [applause] -- i will just start by introducing charlie ergen. reportedly your dad took you outside on an autumn day to see sputnik in the sky. talk about growing up there and what's the effect that had on your future. >> first of all, thank you very much for having me. it is my pleasure to be here. certainly growing up in a relatively small town of only 30,000, it was unique in american history. it was one of the three places that really focused on atomic energy and nuclear bombs, and ashley started processing uranium for the first atomic bomb. probably the biggest thing i got

out of it was a metal lot of really smart people. all the kids -- i met a lot of really smart people. are realized early on there was a big world out there. these people are really smart, and i got the bad end of the gene pool. a lot of the kids i was going to school with or really, really smart. i had 26 national merit finalist in my class. certainly was not one of them. but i recognize there are people that are really, really smart, so i had a good sense of that. as i got older and as i got into business. >> you had an unconventional business background, and among other interesting points it involved playing blackjack professionally in las vegas.

there have been lots of people who have talked about how playing blackjack relates to their business skills. i think bill gates said its poker skills were part of his business acumen. is there something there in terms of gargling skills and success in business? >> i think it is pretty good foundation. -- in terms of gambling skills and success in business. >> i would take a little bit further than that. bert -- first call, the stories about me or exaggerated. my partner was a much better blackjack player than i was. he looked shaky, so he got kicked out more than i did. there were a couple of years when i retired and i was looking for business to start. i spent two years and played a lot of poker and blackjack. each of those was a different discipline.

in the sense that black jackets very scientific. there is always the right answer and a wrong answer. you can in -- picard or increase your bet. -- you can pick a card or increase your bed. i lost four times in a row, when the fifth time. it is a very disciplined game. poker is a game where you don't have to have the best hand to win. that is the reason poker is reading other people and reading human emotions, which certainly comes to play in business. backgammon, while luck is a big part of it, over time, you have to think many moves ahead. most people when they play backgammon, they move the dice that the role, but if you get really good at it, you think

about what are the odds on the next two or three roles you are going to have and the next two or three roles that your opponent might have. you have to take a long-term view. you put yourself in a position that you could lose initially, but with the thought that that particular move oil will win in the long run. the years i did a lot of that was a good foundation as i got into business. i was pretty well prepared for many of the fun times that we had going forward. >> which was your best game? >> i really was not very good it any of them. i was probably better at blackjack. >> you transition from that to ecosphere in 1980. your partner and now life that you start the business with, you

are selling satellites of the back of a truck in colorado. where did the inspiration come from? >> the inspiration came because the scientific community i had grown up in, my dad did take me to watch sputnik when it first came across the lipsky. it would come around every 60 minutes or whatever it was. you would see it for a couple of minutes and then it would be gone. when i was retired, i also was investing in the stock market with limited funds that i had. i was looking for a satellite communications system because it was so much more economical to do that in those days. when jim to franco called me up and said i saw what you were talking about, i saw a satellite dish on the side of the road, and the guy was in a van watching a football game. that struck me as may be a

business that might make sense of some time, because i knew a lot of people, i knew there were online football games and maybe that would want to watch a football games. with the early -- you had the big 10 edition. that was the intriguing part of the business. ultimately the thing that intrigues me most was not the business itself but the fact that i did not know anything about the business, and neither did anybody else. really was the infancy of the big dish satellite business. there were maybe 1000 or 2000 consumer satellite dishes in the entire united states at that time. i felt like we could start at the beginning, starting gate and we could go as fast as anybody else could go. that was different than my

experience when i worked at frito-lay, a division of pepsi. they did not need me. there were people that had been there 20 or 30 years a new lot more about making potato chips than i was ever going to know. they did not need me to tell them how to make potato chips or how to make money. they did not need a financial analyst to say that. that became an intriguing business. i thought people would stand in line to buy these things. did not quite turn out that way initially, but that was a pot. -- but that was a fault. >> did you think at some point, this is good, i am going to get someone to buy the business and take the money and run. did you ever think of selling out? >> my goal was to make a million

dollars, which was actually a lot of money back in 1980, by the way. there's a time three or four years into it when i actually had a million dollars in the bank. we got pretty good at it, and when you get good at something, a lot of times you get passionate about it. there was a guy named david drucker, who is actually in the audience here. he said if you could launch satellites, you could make these dishes smaller. he worked for united cable at the time. he started talking about how you could make the dish smaller. there was a nasa satellite that had payload on it. that is when we started thinking, why don't we do that?

one thing led to another. >> so the passion quickly became more important than money. a lot revolves around material engineers. what was it about building a company that made you want to stay with it, as opposed to hitting the reset button? >> as you get passionate about it, you start building something. it was a lot of fun. i love working with the people i worked with and also people outside the company. anything from ph these to hobbyists. the creativity was amazing. we were starting a new industry and the creativity in how you would make the dish work, and how you might make the polarity change. it was pretty impressive. there was a day when we got

offered $100 million to buy the company. that was probably five or six years into it. then what would you do with the money? it would be like winning the lottery. at the end of the day, it is probably not that much fun because most of the time you spend your life with people asking you for money. >> people in that being very unhappy after winning the lottery. >> i certainly have seen people over the years and they usually go through a couple of stages. they are at certification have become that play golf, for about six months they are pretty happy. the problem is, you are off and never gets any better. -- your golf game never gets any better. if they are married, the wife

does not want them at home. she rules the roost big can you imagine going home and tell your wife how to do the dishes, or where to put this, or why she is not looking nice today, to go to work. she already knows all that. she does not need you to tell her what to do. but his wife told me that. she said please keep creston busy. toot of people i've talked that sold their businesses that they get bored really badly and they want to get back into it again. if everybody gets bored after they sell their business, i don't want to get bored. >> you make a hard move in 1990 to making satellites -- putting satellites up in the sky and

toward direct broadcast. erased $337 million in junk bonds. talk about the capital intensity of that time, and were there any other options? would you raise money through john bonds again -- 3 johnson bonds --through junk bonds again? >> the fact was that we had a business that we knew would become obsolete. we decided that we would try to launch our own satellites, and realized that was risky. we knew doing nothing is even riskier. that became the logical conclusion. so we went about trying to figure out how to do it. there were a lot obstacles, money being one of the biggest ones. it costs money to build and launch satellites.

we had made quite a bit of money. by that time, we had not spent any money. we saved all our money. we had maybe $100 million. we went to raise money and they said we would never be allowed to raise the money. we put all the money back in the business. >> we were all in, and i learned that from playing blackjack. the odds were in our favor, so we went all in. we found somebody else street after knocking on a lot of doors. after i made the presentation, the guy said i was born to raise money for you. i had been turned down by 28 firms from wall street at that time. they said let me get this straight, your going to go

launch satellites and competed against at&t in comcast, and general motors is going to be there to 0.5 years before you are. you don't have any money and you have never built the satellite before, and you are going to do everything yourself, a builder on receivers, and launched a chinese rocket that has 50% chance of success. you mure card, and we will call you if we think that makes sense. this guy said i can raise money for you. j.p. morgan is looking at it. that time, lehman brothers. i have a couple of guys that may want to raise money. i went back and call them a couple of days later and said i like what you said, i will give you guys a shot. that company went and raise billions of dollars for us and it ended up being the best

performing, high-yield fund. it became one of the highest performing, high-yield bonds ever issued. i would hope we don't have to do too many more of those. our credit is a little bit better today. we would be willing to do that. >> one thing that is really amazing that comes up again is, your willingness to cannibalize yourself. the painful reality is most incumbent firms, a rival technology can come along and is very hard to relate. you want to buy destructive technologies, and now thinking

about the wireless play. this goes back to your card playing wisdom. most executives cannot do that and most companies cannot do that. kodak has barely made the transition to digital photo and now is gone. they just can make that transition. >> it is difficult for a variety of reasons. to some degree, you get in have a of stopping to learn -- get in a habit of stopping to learn. when you become successful, it is hard to continue to take risks, because you could lose. what does that song from bob dylan, nothing to lose? when you have something to lose, you don't try it. so you have to develop an

attitude that you are willing to take risks. in our case, we are doing the same thing again. >> the first one is when you when and and launched the dbs. >> we had that early on that when there was a new product it came out, and we went out and put in a purchase order, we had maybe $10 million that we put in to buy this product. we thought it was a really good product. it turned out it was a good product and it made us a lot of money. we have done it a few times. obviously launching of satellites was one time. now we believe that we are a one trick pony as a company.

we have great products. but most everybody who wants pay television in their house in america today has it. there is not a lot of growth. is down to maybe 1 percent sunny year from 3% a year. there are four major competitors in those markets, so it is really does customers moving back and forth. it is a good business, but 10 years from now will not be a good business. when you put that together with mobile video, mobile data, and mobile voice, then you have a business. that is how we are trying to transform the company and we are willing to take the money we have made so far and risk it again, trying to get into that business. >> you share some interesting

stories earlier on about ecosphere. you had one dish on the back of your truck. you had two of them. >> the very first day on the job, always driving in the middle of the night. we had it in a trailer on the back of the car and about four o'clock a.m., a gust of wind came and flipped over the trailer and broke the dish. so we lost half our inventory. [laughter] >> on my first day on the job. i found out i had a really good partner because he did not kill me. we made the best of a bad situation. number two, we overs -- we understood that we could

overcome obstacles. we never really had that serious of an obstacle since do we have had stuttgart have lost hundreds of billions of dollars. -- we had stuff where we had lost hundreds of millions of dollars. it was not as painful as turning over addition 1980. the day in which the chinese rocket takes your first satellite out, did you think about that is going over, and what was the sense of emotion during that day? >> i have my whole family with me and i was pretty calm. we were over in china in the middle of nowhere.

it was pretty calm. we had done everything we possibly could do to make that launched successful. then there are 20 minutes of a controlled explosion that to cannot do anything about. we had worked really hard and done everything we possibly could do. a lot of people helped us to get to that point. we had two good options. one of the satellite would be successful and we would be in business for a long time, or number two, it was not going to be successful and i would go back to being an accountant in alaska. that was ok either way. it turned out the way it was supposed to.

>> [unintelligible] competing head-on with cable. you had the 1992 cable act to help you out with new access programming. when you look back that venture, taking on the cable companies with this new technology, what are the keys to success? wouldn't we do what could have gone wrong, and how did you manage to fight it off -- what could have gone wrong. >> some of the people are going to help pave the way. we were a distributor for direct tv in the first two years when i started. even prior to that, they are people like general instruments to tried and failed to enter the

business for several reasons, mostly timing. i think we were fortunate that the cable industry was arrogant and did not believe -- the first company that we started was called anterese. >> amendment only decided they did not want to pursue it because they did not understand why anyone ever want satellites for the cable. i said better picture, better quality, lower price. those might be three really good reasons. they were arrogant or comfortable enough that they did not see taking the risk to do that. ultimately the cable company got into an -- a comet called prime

star but they never could agree to compete against themselves. that ultimately got sold off and direct tv bought it. i think because we were on the edge of technology, it kept getting better and better. there was a piece for the government played a role there, too. as you pointed out, none of this would have been possible without good public policy. some took a stand against the incumbents and said we need competition. we will get congress to pass a program access law in 1992 that allowed companies to sell programming. most of the good channels for cable, other than the local

broadcasters. it took a lot of public policy and technology and to some degree, some did not want to compete against themselves. anytime you have changes, that happens. >> your satellite product was digital, which gave you a higher quality. you had an easier it bandage over them. then they had to upgrade their whole week that is how they got broadband. >> bringing broadband to the majority of americans, because while the cable industry was asleep at the wheel when it comes to straight broadcasting, we are not asleep at the wheel to figure out how to grow the business. they were able to do technology

and drew a lot of hard work they were able to figure out how to do broadband through their cable plan. now the most profitable part of day is becauses to dat of the satellite industry taking one-third of their customers. >> [unintelligible] >> netflix is forcing us to think about things like over the top videos that maybe we would not have thought about before. so you have destructors coming into the business. it was our being asleep at the wheel, what we did not do netflix.

this eeo was certainly asleep at the wheel. people are always coming up with better ideas. it's have to be conscious of it. >> phil mentioned the technology side. you are also present on the sales side. i understand it offered free satellite dishes to the whole city of boulder at one point? >> i don't know if we did boulder. i know we did some small towns, and certainly down in southwestern colorado. the cable operator was one of our first satellite retailers. when the guys who talked about the business, and he was going to shut down his cable. we just roller trucks in and they hooked everybody up for free. it was a publicity stunt as much as anything else. >> how does it relate to your

management style? are you hands-on involved in all the details? >> i am more avenue micromanaging than just letting somebody do it. i am not a great manager, if you talk to people. either you trust somebody day one until they prove you wrong, or you say i don't trust you and tell you, show me you don't trust me. show me you can do it and then i will give you a lot of rope. up until the last year or so i have been involved in the daily aspects of the business. i would say that i was relatively on top of the business, certainly more so than most ceo's for companies our

size. i was talking to -- i had an information flow on the things i thought were important. i have had board members who passed a resolution you cannot sign checks. it is a single easiest way to stand up for your business. if you know where the money is going, you know everything about that business. it may be after the fact, but at least you know something after the fact, as opposed to not doing it. i signed every check in that company until seven or eight years ago, then i went from $5,000 checks to $10,000 checks, to $100,000 checks. it takes me an hour or two every week.

there is a lawsuits on if we did something wrong or right. i might not otherwise know about it. i would say you should tell me about it and then i will decide if it is important. >> if you ever start a business, the checks. as long as you can stand it. >> the newest venture that you have in assessing the wireless business -- you have already invested $3 billion in spectrum from companies that went

bankrupt. the light squared sava obviously did not give this business opportunity a great name. you are now asking the fcc for flexibility in spectrum that will allow you to offer a wireless broadband company. will you go with these other companies to get a sale? what is your thought about why you can pull this off and others have not. >> there are few things create we listen to the president of the united states is said that broadband is this the administration's highest priority. gloomye a blooming -- bloom partnership ahead of us. that was one aspect. this is a government initiative

and a government priority. they give you some confidence when the president of the united states says this is important. the second thing that we really do need is more wireless spectrum. it is a shame, what i have always told the sec, if you started 1776 schuchat drop pretty good succession plan. it is all chopped up and does not make sense. companies try to use the spectrum in a way that was not economical, and hopes that would be able to use it in a more economical way. we've basically block -- bought the debt of that -- of those countries. then by going to the government was something creative in saying here is how we create

competition and how we can alleviate some of the spectrum crunch. we just think is a good idea. a lot of times, good ideas did not work in washington. this is not our first rodeo. the government does work on president and there is precedent for the companies to be able to use the satellite perspective create we knew there were be some interference reasons so we did a lot of homework between the different bands and frequencies, and when after frequencies that are pretty clean in terms of -- >> we have taken our time with the government and ask for input come anywhere from nasa to the gps, so we know what we are

doing and do not make the same mistake again. >> i think we win on public notice today, after over a year since our first filing. so it takes a long time, and there is no guarantee that the rules will be accommodating -- there is no guarantee that even if we get in the business, it would be a long shot that we could compete against at&t and horizon. they are huge companies that have the power of scale and competency.

>> what lessons do you take me for your playbook? >> i commend light squared for being innovative. i think the government tried to do the right thing. i think that alternately, and politics played a role there, and it should not play. i think once with all the problems they were having, we first approach the fcc about it and said we wanted to go with the full commission for a ruling. we did not want to do it staff level. that is a material difference in terms of how much scrutiny we would get. ultimately, the mission decided they wanted even further scrutiny from that, so they went to full rulemaking which was even another level of scrutiny. that is really the key to it. if it is not a good idea, let's find out about it now.

>> if you want to send them a question, please write them and we will have some people coming down in the audience to pick them up and bring them up. so get ready to share them with us. the proposition competing against companies like at&t, verizon, for most people that is enough to make them think maybe i should find another business. you have done this before. you are now out in the prospect of doing it again. what if all the key lessons were keys for success that enables us to do this? basically to take on incumbents and win. >> there are a few things that have to happen. understanding the sacrifices and what it will take to be disruptive to someone with that but critical mass in the business. you have to get lucky.

either technology has changed, your timing has to be right kamakura or the incumbents don't pay as much attention to you as they should. third, you have to come in with a better price. you cannot come in with something that is the same as an economist. it has to be better product and it has to be less expensive. your timing has to be right. you have to have a great team to do it. my analysis for our team is, we are like a bunch of old cowboys in texas and we decide the grass is greener in montana, so why don't we just drive the cows up there and see how it goes. we will get $2 a day and we will split the profits will we get there if we are successful.

>> some people say i want to go on the cattle drive and some want to stay in texas. we'll probably go little younger. one of the things everybody has to read is lonesome dove, and then everybody figure out which guy they are. it makes it funny gives you something to focus on. we can focus on something we can understand and that is what we are going to compete against. >> when it is just you and your wife, -- we did not need the money. how this little company with

30,000 people taking on basic company propositions, or to move the company from texas to montana, is it a harder proposition? how do you think about it? >> it is hard to make that decision. we are a public company and we do have responsibility to people that we did not have before. we have over 30,000 employees. i take seriously the fact that they need to provide for their families. we don't take it lightly. for us, not taking a risk is the bigger risk. this is a case where if we are unsuccessful, the spectrum probably still has value. this is one of those things where we are not successful, there are people that have scale in this business today that will be valuable to them. we are not benefiting the oil company like we were when we had nothing. i think it would be difficult to

start a business with a wife and five kids. it would be more difficult to start a business because you would have the risk there, not just to yourself. it's easy when your 25, 27 years old. >> what are your estimates on the capital intensity? you are able to get the necessary approval. what would it take in terms of capital to do that? >> i can tell you that the industry is probably spent close to $100 billion to do what we are trying to do. hopefully we will do that for a fraction of that cost. technology has changed so rapidly. we could be stopped before we start, if the rule goes on too long. we might miss the window to enter the business.

you always want to disrupt or injured when the technology is changing. in the wireless business, it is changing from ltg. it is a world standard, a one world standard. somewhere up to 100 times more capacity. it is a good time to enter the business. we will spend billions of dollars for sure and create tens of thousands of jobs to be successful. we have been saving our money and we are prepared to go spend it that. >> you could have bought sprint and t-mobile. why choose to build this from the ground up as opposed to looking at one of the legacy

carriers? >> we did not know enough about the business to do something like that. second, the cost of the spectrum was about the same amount that those companies had. i think t-mobile -- they paid 39 billion. a similar spectrum that they have. it is like a better economical model for us. , weon't have any legacy can build the technology without a legacy of switched networks and analog phones. we will be able to do something called hd voice. you don't have any old legacies.

this is me talking, so here is what i want to do. are really just want a phone that i can talk as many minutes as i want. i can text while i am talking and surf the web all at the same time, and it cost me $50. and when i get the bill, it is $50. i signed up for a plan of one of the carriers that was $59 but my bill was something like 150 four dollars and 28 cents. i used to be an accountant, and i cannot tell you where the 160 four dollars is. i cannot get through, and i don't know what to tell you. it is like when you go to a strange city. i don't think the world's business has to be that way. i think actually should have a phone that works.

i am really interested doing that. >> to see that as a function and the breakdown in the wireless market? how competitive do you see the wireless market today in broadband? >> it is very competitive. there are only two that are better, which are at&t and verizon. there are a half-dozen other players that of their challenges. it is unclear where they will end up. my experience has been, i have worked with some of the wireless players. things got complicated because they kept adding things on. they also like that is complicated, because from a marketing perspective, you did not understand your bill. it is kind of crazy in today's world to get 200 text messages.

it does not cost you anything to send text messages in the wireless business today. so it just got complicated. it doesn't have to be that way. if one phone works when you go to the broncos game and other phone does not work, if you happen to be with the person whose own works, you can tell your friends about it. if you do that, you can be successful. if we don't do that, if we are just like everybody else, then we won't be successful. >> the amazing thing here is you are able to think and act like a start up after all these years. what role do you think start-

ups' play and do you sometimes look to invest in swings. >> one of the problems you have as you get to be a bigger company is, we are not really entrepreneurialism. we end up with more professional managers and entrepreneurs. even though we try to have a cultural of of the burners, it does not work out that way. year end up having -- we try to have cultural entrepreneur a.corbat >> the founder is thinking in this guy is not that smart, why is he telling me what to do? those are difficult things. we'll have to fight for that.

the way we set up the company, i am really on the wireless side. we are going to montana. dish network continues to run. this eeo runs that business, and it echoes star had the ceo in that business. they know how to manage those businesses. i am the signing their checks. keeping them honest. my point is we have to start the wireless business outside of this network and then we will pull the men as we get it growing. >> i was interested to hear you talk about the culture you try to create, but it is difficult to maintain. >> i did not handle authority

well. particularly authority that i did not think was as smart as me. i realized that early on. later i realized that i was wrong in their but were people smarter than me, but when you are 22 years old you are more naive than that. i think the dish would be too slow for me. when i worked at frito-lay, i was a financial analyst but i wanted to learn about operations and marketing. they literally said he had to go to an ivory league school to be in marketing. i went to an unaccredited business school. in operations, they said finance people were good at operations. i rode in a truck on the weekend so i could learn about operations. i came up with the way for that

business to save $30 million. to save $30 million. they said, you don't understand. we are going to get our bonuses this year. if we say $30 million, then we have to make another $35 million next year. we have just grown 10% a year. >> i was naive. i am understand a lot more about what they are saying now as a public company. at that point, i am not as well go start my own business, because how hard can it be? it's got to be easier. as a result, we don't manage quarter to quarter. it is a huge advantage in the marketplace, not to go and say

that your earnings went up 10% a year. sometimes we say earnings went down by 200%. but we don't have to manage quarter to quarter. it gives us a huge advantage. i will give you an example. when we bought the bankrupt companies that had spectrum, we actually paid the companies before the sec approved our deal. we actually paid off all bombers -- pay off all the bondholders. we were out at $3 billion and did not have approval. reason we got the deal was we did not have a contingency for sec approval. there were some risk that the sec would not approve the deal. therefore we were taking a chance in doing something that was a little bit risky.

we were able to get ourselves in a position to be in the wireless business where our competition was not. >> he was very frustrated because he said we want to get a big piece of the business. i said, what is the deal with charlie? he said charlie is not interested investing in the content. >> is that true, and why are you willing to put a lot of money on the table when it comes to wireless businesses? >> there are two reasons. content take some extra excreta expertise that we do not have. we are not really knowledgeable about that.

the second thing is that the return on content for us on a given where we are today, we do not think is the same as return for distribution. we see distribution as our dna. third, we want to be switching the content. s soon as we get into content, that of be the first thing that would pop up on your screen. we want you to trust us that we are putting up everything in equal manner and that we give you the choices as to what we've -- guess what you want to watch it is not a secret that comcast owns nbc, and that when you watch nbc golf, there is little ball logo when they are talking about the golf channel. if you watch abc news with brian williams, they will talk about the weather channel.

maybe the weather channel person is not the best person to talk about that. but companies do that. we just said we will we the switzerland of content. we would like the best distribution path and put it out there for customers. they can get it wherever they are. hopefully that will pay for what they watch. >> barry also made a proposal that if you on distribution, you should not be allowed to be incumbent. do you support that proposal? >> i don't think there is anything wrong it is, as long as you make it available with other distribution paths.

i think the sec this year, last year had a tough decision to make. for the most part, they got it right. it said if you owned distribution, you have to make sure you are a fair partner for people on content. you don't discriminate against content. had they not rule that way, i think history would have shown that to be a real problem. i think they got that right. i am not scared of open access or competition. i look at it primarily is a problem that i want. we don't do a lot of market research. i am pretty sure everybody in this audience wants a phone that works that you understand your bill. i am pretty sure you watch tv on your tv set or on your phone a

matter where you are. i am sure you want to make a phone call. you don't have to do a lot of research. >> i want to read lonesome dove right now to find out a little bit more. >> when your offer the $100 million for the first time, why did you view it as a lottery pay out? >> i did not think i could start another company, to be honest with you. at that point, i knew what it took to start a company. had i known what it took to start a company, i would not have done it, but once i got into it with my partners, there was no going back for it. we had to make it be successful. i don't think i could do it again.

>> we work working seven days a week, not doing anything social. it just took a lot of work. by that time i had children, and i just the dog is not going to be able to sacrifice at that same level. the wireless business is kind of a second chance, but we are not starting from scratch. we have a really good foundation with a lot of good people with maybe a little more experience on how to manage and direct other people. a lot of talent we did not have back and i expect it -- back in 1980. i would not have the skill to start up a startup company. >> you said people were not standing in line to buy your

dishes. what have you learned about technology diffusion and how to get people to try something different from that experience? >> pitbull did come in and look at this crazy thing. -- people did come in and look at this crazy thing. we did market research. we asked them it is too big and too expensive. nobody said we do not like the picture quality. nobody said we do not want free tv. it is too big and too expensive. every day we think about, how did you make it smaller and less expensive? we were able to make less- expensive. we got the cost of the system

down at around $1,000. the-got a little small. we never got it to the point where the dish was free. you put it in your house and nobody would see it. the lesson there is really that people will tell you why they do not like your product. you just have to change. what do you not like about your television provider today, and what do you not like about yourself on provider today? i would say in this group there would be a pretty good consensus about those questions. what we have to do is attack those things that most of you feel -- we have to go and attack those things and we're not perfect by any means. we have to do it in the wireless way. >> what inside the you have a about how to use lawyers must effectively from a small business perspective?

>> why are people laughing? >> i have had a good time with lawyers. i am you need. i am probably the only ceo that likes to go to a deposition. -- i am unique. i find a lot fascinating. i think it is a very good thought process. discipline is an important thing. the go through a thought process of how things work. if you are a really good a lawyer you become creative. it is a really good discipline for business whether you actually practice law or not. we have had lawyers in many different aspects of our company be successful as a result of that. we tried to take the bad lawyer stuff out of them to determine the business people.

the people universally are almost really smart. it is a good foundation to have no matter what you have that. the only thing i would say is -- when i talk to lawyers it is more about how can i do this as opposed to what the law says. how can we go do this. we want to do network television on satellite. we want to do it in the local community. in denver you get denver tv stations. at first they did not want to help us do that. the direct tv did not want to do that because they did that have the capacity to do that.

we would not view it as a copyright violation if you did it. that was good enough for us at the time. it is probably the one thing that will save the broadcast industry now is the pavements for retransmission consent. ultimately they supported the regulation to do that. it did not look on the surface we could do it until news corp. was creative. >> when you are dead with the wireless venture you can come teach and latest -- loss call anytime you want. >> i do think it is difficult under sarbanes oxley and a lot of stuff today. you have to be careful about lawyers running a company. you want to listen and take counsel and you -- many times i have to say, i understand that, but the lawyers are not running

the company. you can lawyer up everything so there is no -- you can live in a bubble if you want to. you probably will not get a disease. you could run a play in the dirt, too, and probably not get a disease because you get a new to it. you pick your poison, and we choose to play in the mud. >> it is a little hard to know when to end. let me end on one note. there are a lot of students here in the audience that are taking and all you have to say and all the implications for them would be lawyers, technologists, entrerepnerus. what advice would you give the students in the audience on how to get a satisfying and rewarding career and the type of revenue have had a spectacular -- what would you

tell your younger self and what would you tell this group what to do going forward? >> i would say, do not take a lot of advice. if there is one thing that that will help you the most it is to continue to learn. some of you are still in school and just spend a lot of money to learn. what you do when you are 20 or 22, hopefully you will not stop learning. what you do between now and when you are 100 will hopefully make a difference. get yourself in a position where what ever you do you are actually learning something. it is really easy to learn with the internet. it can be traveling. it can also be about a particular field. you probably will become passionate about something you get good at. it is not like i saw satellite

and s. -- it is not like a saucepot neck and said i will launch a satellite. i was not passionate about satellite until we got good at it. you learn something and you will probably find you are passionate about certain things. would you get really good at something you will probably become more passionate about that, too. then you can be in a field you are passionate about where you do not really work. you do not have a job. that is great. get in an environment where you can learn. that is one of the interesting things. google is like a college campus. i think that is a great environment for what ever you do. if you go to a law firm, did not go to the one that pays you the most money, go to the one that you will learn the most. >> i want to thank you for taking the time. thank you.

[applause] >> we will bring you a number of college commencement speeches beginning with eric schmidt at uc-berkeley. ursula burns at. the university of indianapolis with john lechleiter. ashton carter will talk about pentagon budget priorities and the possible effect of automatic budget cuts in january that the white house and congress agreed to as last year's debt ceiling agreement. live coverage at 10:45 eastern

on c-span. later a discussion on the 2008 financial crisis. we will hear from a former chief economist. live coverage from the cato institute at noon. now, google executive chairman eric schmidt addresses graduates at the university of california berkeley. his remarks are in about 15 minutes. [applause] >> thank you. the best thing about breeding approximately half of the class , the woman who came in on her phone saying, mom, i have to go now.

this is the new cal graduate, always talking to her mother. it is great to be back here on campus. it is an honor to hold a degree from berkeley. it is an honor to look out on this next generation of golden bears. when you return to a place of intense memories, you think of a place that has changed so much. in truth, you are the one that has changed more. your memories will be vivid. things will look different but you will feel the same. when you returned to berkeley, you will have changed. in turn, you will have changed the world. before i began i would like to remind you that tomorrow is mother's day.

of the graduates, if you first do not sexy, do like your mother told you to do it. that may be the most -- if at first you do not succeed, do it the way your mother told you to do it. computers give you time per dreams. i have walked across the stage in 1992 for my phd. in that year the computer was time magazine's person of the year. computers were entering the mainstream. big blocky contraptions plunked down on desks. most of america had no idea the power of the machines. they suddenly found they had more time or dreams. even the wildest dream that 30 years later children would carry something exponentially more powerful with them everywhere they go on their laps, in their

pockets, digital connections forged between millions of people around the world tethered together to form the worldwide community. computers gave me time to dream, too. back then when i was like you going to the greek theatre and wandering up and down telegraph it felt like a new world was being imagine right here on campus. there was something in the air that made you think, something that made you dream. today i feel that again being here with you. and just the other day i saw a video of a berkeley student who automated his dorm room. everything powered from his mobile device. the romantic road near was a particularly nice touch, i thought. -- romantic mirror was a particularly nice touch. the energy is similar to what i felt 30 years ago, and 30 years

before that i suspect. that is what is special about berkeley. a place where humanism and science can coexist and they can feed off each other in service of a better day. as the chancellor said, 30 -- a secretary of defense, a chief justice, writers, officer winners, even the reigning nfl m.v.p. -- this is pretty exciting. they all rome did this a beautiful campus and left to make their mark on culture and the world. now you follow them. yes, you. sitting right there after baking in the sun two hours, possibly a nursing a hangover. do not tell your parents. that is a lot of pressure. what can i do? that is your question to answer.

i cannot do it for you. one thing is for certain. the graduating class gets to choose the world a graduate into. to psyche do not get to choose your parents and siblings. up to this. it is being written for it. this is no different. what is different is the chance each generation has to make that history and write it larger or in my business to program it better. your generation's opportunities are greater than any in modern history. you could write the code for all of us as a society. you are connected to each other in ways those who came before you could only dream of. you are using those to strengthen the invisible ties. to allow us to deepen our understanding of the world around us.

you are the emblems of the sense of possibility that will define our do age. in the past is always older generations trying to teach the next generation the ways of the world, trying to make sure they follow in their footsteps. i admit, i think it is different today. you are quite simply teaching us. your generation is the first fully connected generation the world has ever known. what is the first thing you do when you get up? check your phone? your laptop, check your e-mail? update your status. "i'm awake." [laughter] if you are a way, you are online. you are connected. some of you are probably texting your friends right now. smile, you are on camera. welcome to our new world.

i suspect somebody from berkeley would actually do that. this is obviously a joke, but it is also telling us a depiction of how the central our technology has come to your generation's ability to connect. identity and connection concepts are old as humanity itself. they define some much of who we are now. they shape our times and define the human condition. it is your task to make those time warner concepts, spin them around, real imagined them, make them fresh and new and exciting. berkeley helps build the platform you will base that on. they built it for all of us. i know it is daunting. i know it is not a great economy to be walking off the stage

into. i also know you have a competitive edge. you have an innate mastery of technology. you have an ability to foster connections that no matt -- no generation before you has ever possessed. people be mown a generation that ended up living life in front of screens always connected to something and someone. those people are absolutely wrong. the fact we are all connected now is a blessing and not a curse. we can solve many problems in the world as a result of this. it is a responsibility that you carry. today there are 54 wars and conflicts waiting around the world. 1.5 billion people live on less than a dollar and half a day. nearly half the world's people do not live under democratic governments. right to enjoy are a rarity and

not a norm. we think everyone is on line when it comes to the internet. only 1 billion people have smartphones and only 2 billion people have access to the internet. for most of the world internet cafes are like digital oases and technological buzzards. the spread of mobile phones, new forms of connectivity offer as the prospect of connecting every community in our lifetime. when that happens, connectivity can revolutionize every aspect of society, politically, socially, economically. to connect to the world is to free the world. if we get this right so we can fix all the other problems at the same time. again, no pressure on our graduates. just because we know much more than we used to does not mean our problems go away. the future does not just happen.

it is not written or coded anywhere. there is no formula that says the technology will thex or y to make sure this happens. you are the ones to harness that power. that requires innovation. one thing i will tell you, if you know you are innovating, people are worried about you. make people worry about you. try something new. entrepreneurship is the engine that keeps community's growing. two-thirds of jobs created are in small businesses. you should all join one or be part of one. i would recommend you use all of google's products to help set that up. in any case, you all have a chance to have an original contribution. do not be a shepherd following somebody else's vision.

you do not need to become an aid worker or a teacher -- although i applaud those. you do not need to be an engineer. everybody can make their mark by creating new standards of brilliance and innovation. those standards can spread in scale in ways that are unimaginable. the collective intelligence of our society, it is really quite different. think of it as a new society with mostly american norms and values that crosses countries and unites all of us. the distinctive nature of our new world is you can be a unique while also being completely connected. that is what is so different. that to me more than anything else is the american dream. do not get me wrong, i believe that fully in the power of technology to change the world for the better.

i believe even more fully in your generation to use that technology to rule technology. you cannot let technology rule you. remember to take at least 1 hour -- i know this will be very hard -- and turn off your device. one hour. shut it down. learn where the off button is. take your eyes off the screen and look into the eyes of the person that you love. have a conversation. a real conversation. not a text conversation. actually talk to them. i know this is a new skill. speak and look. with friends that make you think in families that make you laugh. engage with the world around you. experience it as a human. and then turned the machine

right back on, of course. the. i am trying to make his life is not live in the glow of a monitor. life is about who you love, how you live. it is about you travel with through the world. your family, your collaborators, your friends. life is a social experience first. they are spent in the company's of others. our landscape has changed, but our humanity has always and will remain what makes us who we are. and who you are is a proud and talented group of golden bears. you have come to no extraordinary people. look around and think about this group -- your closest friends, experiences you have had. a few years ago you started off on the road to adventure. now you are all extraordinary

men and women. you are ready to make your own mark not on history but on the future. that is what is so interesting. it may not have seen so difficult along the road -- today you have made it. the french ships you have a forged here when times were good and bad -- the friendships he formed here when times were good and bad. the people you have met at berkeley will be some of the strongest allies and friends he will ever meet in your lives. when you leave here, do not leave them behind. stay close and stay strong. take some with you and go change the world together. i asked you, find a way to say yes to things. say yes to invitations to a new country. say yes to meet new friends,

learning a language. yes is how you get your first job and your next job. yes is how you find your spouse and kids. even if it is a bit edgy, saying yes means you will meet somebody new and make a difference in your life and likely others as well. yes let's see stand out in a crowd to be an optimist and stay positive. to be the one everyone comes to for help. yes is what keeps us all young. yes is a tiny word that allows you to do very big things. say it often. do not be afraid to fail. do not be afraid to succeed. for those of you thinking too big, be smart enough not to listen. for those who say the odds are too small, be dumb enough to give it a shot. for those of who who ask, how

can you do that? let them in the eyes and say i will find a way. the quicker we can have you lead, the better. time to throw out all the aging baby boomers and replace those with the best equipped to lead in the new age. that time article that i was telling you about was called "a new day begins." that day has long faded into dusk. we need a new day to dawn today. the intellectual energy, the sum of all of the people, the mothers, the siblings, the graduates on all of the faculty, not just here but in stadiums around the country, your generation will break in the day. things that were inconceivable to me when i was here will see a new era. your bold ideas will shape a new

reality. your agile minds will inspire a new dawn. you have this thing in your pocket with all this power. exponentially more than in 1982. you have time to dream. i ask you, what are you going to dream for all of us to enjoy? thank you so much. you have my greatest congratulations. thank you. [applause] >> the most recent graduate from the u.s. house. tell us about that? >> over 20 years ago i had to quit my schooling because my dad was killed and an accident on our farm. i took over the family business

and needed to be there. just recently i have been taking classes again and finally completed my political science degree at south dakota state university. >> you attended the commencement and also spoke at the commencement. >> it was such a unique experience because not only did i get my degree they allowed me to be the graduating seniors speaker. i had an opportunity to talk to a lot of students about life. it will not always be lollipops and bubble gum. there will be challenges in front of them. also that there are opportunities and to take them when you see them. it is more often they have seen opportunities they have met. >> how did you prepare to give a speech? >> a lot of them were young red at me and i did not want them to feel as though i had to make an offer to them. i also talked about the fact lot of them have plans for their life. mine changed when my dad passed

away, my entire life changed. to embrace it and know at the end of the day they should follow their passion. >>kristi noem representing south dakota, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. congratulations to all the graduates. >> and congratulations to you. >> thank you. >> a commencement address from the xerox chairman ursula burns. she addressed the 2012 graduating class of xavier university in new orleans. her remarks are 15 minutes. [applause]

>> president francis, distinguished faculty, graduates, family and friends and my two below -- i am so proud to be with you today and so proud to be part of your vibrant community if only for a day. you are unique. there are more than 250 catholic colleges and our nation. there are more than 100 historical black colleges and our nation. there is only one college that is both black and catholic, and that is the gold rush and gold nuggets of xavier. what a special tradition. [applause] it is hard to be here without reflecting a little bit on my graduation in 1980. it was a dream come true for me and my family. i grew up in a single parent

household on the lower east side of manhattan. my mother's highest in come in any year was $4,400. yet she managed to send me and my brother and my sister to private catholic schools from kindergarten all the way to high school. i did not fully appreciated then, but it was a gift of the measurable value. that was followed by a scholarship to nyu poly and on to columbia university. my mother saw education as a way up and out of the projects. up and out. she made whatever sacrifices were necessary to see to it that we had an opportunity to a good education and then she insisted that we take advantage of that opportunity. of the graduates have that same opportunity. do not taken for granted.

don't take it for granted. all of you will have challenges. you will immerse yourself in a world of opportunities. i've given some thoughts about what this would be today. i boil it down to five things. i would encourage all of you to follow the example of behavior and embrace change and with a sense of excitement and wonder. the the university is approaching its centennial university, 100 years, it has reinvented itself for nearly 100 years because this has involved. the only thing i can predict is that change will be a constant in their lives. there were no cell phones. the internet with this stuff of

dreams. the fax machine was considered close to an merkel. the chinese capitalism was unimaginable. this is not a part of our vocabulary. even if years ago the thought of a global economic downturn was beyond comprehension. i cannot pretend to how -- to know how your world will change. it will at a pace that will increase exponentially. you are the cause of the change. learn to love it. make it your ally. stay relevant by devoting herself to a lifetime of learning. you are being given a wonderful thing.timiacademic

tuesday career they give you the filament and pleasure. surround yourself with people that make you laugh. do not fall into this trap of letting someone else to find your success or your happiness. some of your parents will not like what i'm a back to say. when they left school their immediate future was pretty well supplied. they got a job. they settle down. that is done by the time they were 30. that has changed dramatically. now the decade after college is spent trying a few different jobs, getting a graduate degree. traveling. and then settling down. people are more likely to be successful if they have a passion for what they do.

it takes some time. make yourself a promise. if you find your career is not fun, revert to my earlier piece of baez, a change. the true to yourself and your value. death this has given a set of core values. hang onto it. a predecessor of mine tried to live his life as though any piece of that might end up on his obituary. if that happens, would he be proud? that is not a bad test. to that anything that will not make your mom proud.

-- do not do anything that will not make your mom proud. do good in the world. our planet is in trouble. we need help. i promise that you will not care very much about how much money you have made or the status you have achieved. not made the world a better place. money and status and do not bring happiness. they did not bring happiness. doing dead is not an add-on. it is not what you do after you're done living. it is central to leading a rewarding life. my mother told me lots and lots of things. -- she used to tell me

we have an obligation to put back more than we take away. you have to lead balkline more than you take away. it is not a bad formula for a true success. at the risk of getting preachy. i would ask you to reflect on how privileged you are compared to the rest of the world's population. one-fifth of the world's people go to bed hungry every night and they wake up every morning without hope. 1/5. 4 billion people lives of less than $2 a day. more than 1 billion people in the world cannot read or write. more than 40% of the world's those without basic sanitation. more than a billion people drink water that is unsafe. at least to the death of over 2 million children a year. a lot of this is happening right

down the street. you can see this. our brothers and our sisters are in desperate need of a helping hand. who will help them if not us? if not now, when? to those to whom much is given much is expected. you have to live your life so that at the end of the journey you will know that your time here was well spent. you left behind more the need to go away. you have a rich tradition to up whole. .here's a very special place this has remained constant. i love this mission.

preparing students to assume roles of leadership in service and a global society. let me repeat that. the mission is to contribute to the promotion of a more just society by preparing its students to assume roles of leadership and service. what an opportunity that you have been given. not just to succeed but to serve. you're entering a world full of challenge. he will search for a job and economy that is still suffering since the economic depression. there will be a work force where entire industries disappear with breathtaking speed.

you're living on the planet that is overcrowded. as our world grows faster and smaller comedy will work with people who need to look like you nor shared the same values as you. at the same time, you will have an extraordinary opportunity to live out the aspirations that they intend for you. he coined as a decade before it was founded. imagine if he were here today beholding these sites i am privileged to see. he would be proud and pleased beyond all believes. the boys will be proud of the strides black america has made. some of us have gained great

political power and amassed a great economic wealth. we have succeeded in every facet of american life. we even have a black president. the work is far from done. as we sit here there are more black men in prison than there are in college. more than 80% of black and hispanic children cannot read or do have at grade level. you can add to the list that leads to an unmistakable conclusion. you cannot concentrate on the best of what we have done. he must focus on the worst of what we need to do. that is your charge, to define your success by what we do for our brothers and sisters. you cannot close their ranks

behind you. he cannot enter the ranks of the elite and close the ranks behind you. you're part of the chain of men and women who have gone before us. they fought for freedom and justice. they demanded voting rights. your parents now pass the baton of justice ought to you. it is a sobering and an exhilarating responsibility. allow yourself just a moment to bask in the glory of what has been accomplished. you will cherished what you have learned here. congratulations. you have worked long and hard.

all of you should feel very proud. i wish you the very best. may all of your dreams come true. thank you. [applause] >> and now remarks from the ford motor company co2 graduates at the university of kansas. he grew up in lawrence and graduated from ku in 1969. his remarks or about 15 minutes. -- are about 50 minutes. -- are about 15 minutes.

>> how do you like my new party hat? distinguished faculty, a crowd, then members and graduates, thank you for giving me the honor of being part of this very special moment in your lives. it is a privilege for me to be here and to stand alongside the other honorary degree recipients. each recipient's have dedicated themselves to lifelong service. i do not speak for them.

i am so honored to be among them. before we do anything else, i have one last assignment. nobody makes it through college about a lot of support. certainly financial aid. there are people who gave you emotional support, who believe the and have to believe in yourself. class of 2012, please join me in a round of applause to thank your family and your mother's on this special day, friends, faculty. [applause] that was simply great. you all passed.

we can clearly see what your graduating today. i would like to honor this tradition today by sharing a few thoughts with you. this will tell you a little bit about who i am. the most important thing you need to know about me is that i .m a rock talk jayhawke i not only receive my bachelors of science degree in aeronautical engineering from the university of kansas but i grew up right here in lawrence, kansas.

i will never forget that day. the university of kansas was planning northwestern university. before the game, i was sitting at the top of the bleachers by the locker room entrance. will walked out, stopped, and looked me in the eye. i look down to make sure he was not standing on something. he was not. i said, a "hi." he said, "hi." after that chat, he went out and scored 52 points, setting a record in his very first game. i like to paying back his a wonderful performance that day was because of the pep talk i gave him. [applause] i became a day hawk fan because of the athletics. i became a jayhawks didn't because of the academics.

-- students because of the academics. it is a world-class university. when people ask me what they should do to be successful in life, i tell them the first thing is to get a degree from the university of kansas. my congratulations to all of you. you are minutes away from holding that diploma in your hands. this is truly no ordinary moment. when you leave here today, you will have the advantage of having a great education. what will you do next? in the next few weeks, commencement speakers will be urging graduates like yourselves to follow your passion. discover what motivates and excites you in life and pursue it with passion. i am a strong believer in following your passion. i am also an engineer.

we engineers love continuous improvement. i am blind to give you my version of follow your passion 2.0. it is about a interesting to something bigger than ourselves. follow your passion 2.0 means working together with others and it also encourages us to be open to all the lives experiences. the setbacks as well as the successes. in my experience, the greatest challenges i face turn that to be the greatest opportunities. it will come from anywhere if we are open. my junior high school president kennedy gave his we are going to the moon speech. he said by doing so we will learn more about ourselves, each other, and life on earth.

quite compelling vision ca. i chose the university of kansas to study engineering. united airsted in the force. i learnt that i was slightly colorblind. at the time it meant that i cannot be in astronauts. i was devastated then. i know now that life had just given me a gifto or a gem. a gem is a learning that allows to reevaluate what we are doing unless we do something with it, it is just a rough stone. it is up to us to shape and polish it. only then will a gem have real value.

we'll have to do things differently. for those of us that continue to follow our passion, a setback can become a gem. in my case, i continued to be involved in the aerospace industry. my professor was doing research work for the boeing company. he asked me to help them and introduce me to some of the neat people. when i graduate, i got a job as a boeing as an airplane design engineer. i loved it. i did so well that they moved into management. they gave me one employee to manage. my first employee probably quit. life had given me another gift. one of the greatest gems of my life. a key point is being opened. i talked to my former employee at length. he shared with he really thought. it was hard to hear but it was

so important. i have been trying to make my employee do things exactly the way that i did. it's of helping him discover and develop his unique talents to support the business and the needs of the company. over time, i learned the most effective leaders connect people to the compelling vision of a enterprise in a way that benefits the individual and organization. i was fortunate to serve boeing for 37 years and contributed to the design of every boeing airplane. the 707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 77, and the new 787 dreamliner. [applause] by 2006, i was president and ceo. we overcame extremely horrible

economic competition. we were doing great. life was really good. that is when i got a call from bill ford. yes, bill ford. 100 years of technology innovation of affordable and safe transportation. he asked me to leave a boeing, the company where i spent my entire career, it to join a company that was struggling. it was another gem. we have to recognize a gym when we see one. we have to be open to life experiences and expect the unexpected. a call from bill ford came from out of the blue. it is one of the random things that happened in life. because i was open to the possibility, i decided the right way to follow my passion was to join bill.

there were plenty of gems waiting for me at ford. [applause] working together as a team, we have been able to fully leverage our resources around the world. today we have turned things around. we are creating an exciting and probably growing company for the good of all stakeholders. we're building great products and a strong business. where can shifting to a better world. -- we are contributing to a better world. the last part is so important. we need to be part of something bigger than ourselves. over the years, i have discovered that my definition of follow your passion to point us passion 2.0 is working together for the greater good. to serve is to live. i have the honor of working for two great global icons.

they're contributing solutions to the three critical issues of our time, economic development, energy dependence, and environmental sustainability. boeing and ford have given me the opportunity to bring people together. i have learned that bring people together to work together for the greater good as another side benefit that i personally find very compelling. when we spend time together we can learn the we have more in common than we are different. when we realize we're the same, we have the opportunity to realize that we can live and work together in peace. for me that is a most compelling vision. now it is time for you to begin your journey to begin to define what follow your passion 2.0 means to you. the world is filled with challenges and opportunities. it is up to you to turn them into gems.

pursue the things that matter to you with great passion. to be open and flexible and willing to learn even if the lesson is a hard one. to bring people together and work together for something bigger than yourself. life is unpredictable. the journey is phenomenal. embrace it. enjoy it. my goal today was to make my remarks in just as [unintelligible] if not, quite as short. i hope i have succeeded. i am confident that you are going to be successful in your life not because what i have said today but because of who you are and the education you have received from the university of kansas. thank you for listening. enjoy your special day so much. enjoy the journey and each other. thank you. [applause]

>> tell us about your experiences speaking at college commencements. >> i enjoyed doing commencements. i did this a few years ago. a couple days later i ran into two yen later to tell me they were in attendance. neither one of them could remember being a good speech. it would shore. i tried to get 10 or 12 minutes commencement. i tried to lay out three themes. the first one being to remind people the first sign of a good education is good manners.

all of us are the sum total of our experiences. we should respect the fact that no two people will have the same set of experiences. we should learn to honor those differences. i tried to tell students to never give up on themselves. i sa

never give up. it is important for young people to know no matter how many times you fail, the next time maybe the time. >> congressmen james clyburn is the democratically leader. >> thank you for having me. >> now a commencement speech read the ceo of the pharmaceutical company. his address to graduate is about 50 minutes. -- graduates is about 15

minutes. [applause] >> good afternoon. distinguished faculty, a proud graduate, parents, families, friends. , i am deeply honored to receive this degree and have the opportunity to be with you this afternoon. let me begin by saying to president of beverly pitts,

"well done. " since your rival, and this campus has been transformed. the number of new academic programs has skyrocketed. so has the number of students taking service learning courses. if this were not enough, you hosted the super bowl to indians to -- suitable champions. we appreciate your leadership. we wish you all the best in your future endeavors. join with me in thanking and celebrating dr. beverly pitts. [applause] class of 2012, good afternoon. i see a whole sea of graduates

from the point where i stand. this is quite a day, a day to celebrate your success as you commence the next stage of your life. the relative importance of my role really hit home with me when i had trouble remembering who gave my college commencement address. ok, i admit. it was way back there in 1975, somewhere between "mad men" and "star wars." someone told me when you give a speech if you can be your idea is to remember one thing, you have done well. if you can get them to remember two things, you have hit it out of the park. i am going to try my luck today and share with you two think i have learned over my life and career, one for the near-term in

one fell for the rest of your life. let's start with the near term. last week or the week before many of you probably had papers, deadlines, maybe just a touch of panicke. congratulations, you made it. next week it really gets scary. many of you might be asking what now? what is next? how my ever going to find a job? you are too familiar with the headlines, a really tough job market, a cynicism about our government, skyrocketing gas prices, worries some talk about the possibility of war with iran. i am not talking about today.

i am talking about when i was in your shoes preparing to strike out into the world in late 1970's. we had our own economic recession including gas rationing, high inflation, and double-digit interest rates to boot. some painful memories that your parents will recall. politically there is a huge amount of disenchantment after watergate. there was lots of cynicism about the future. mean what a gas station, i remember that for a while cars with license plates ending an odd numbers could only gasp of on odd numbered days. those ending in even numbers on even numbered days. we did not have been it plate appeared the soviet union was the country in afghanistan -- vanity plates.

the soviet union was the country in afghanistan. and the technology perspective, we had not hit the boom years. desktop computing was just emerging from steve jobs' garage. i handed tight my chemistry ph.d. thesis and had to use stencils for the chemical structure illustration. cutting and pasting then a really meant cutting and pasting. i said to my wife that we were married at a time, six months of my life down the drain. to top it off, we had a runaway inflation. when we moved to indianapolis in 1979, we felt lucky to be able to buy a starter home with a state subsidized mortgage carrying an interest rate of 13.75%. can you imagine the unsubsidized rates?

it was not all dreary. we did have disco. [applause] for all of us, that crazes subsided. i am sure it is ancient history and to give you a reason for optimism. den werehink thback, hideen seeds a positive development that could not have recognized then. many historians see afghanistan as the key to the collapse of the old soviet union. for all the global hotspots we have today, no one would want to go back to the world were a nuclear war between two superpowers seemed a real possibility. most people also did not foresee that we were on the verge of medical, technological, and

consumer products revolutions that would turbocharge our economy for decades the kind. the first apple computer with all of eightk ram, no 8g, 8k. it was the first vestige of our modern economics. lilly that i join was a far cry from what it is today. three years after i joined, it they traded the very first madison created using the new dna -- there's after i joined, if they created the first medicine using the new dna technology. several years later, we launched prozac which helps treat depression and create the modern company.

the malaise of the '70s gave way to two decades that followed of unprecedented growth. when i think of these two eras and reflect on all but as happened between, i think i can tell you with certainty what your future will look like. it will look like change. that is the one constant. with change comes opportunity. whatever field you choose, whether it is health care or education or business or the arts, keep alert for change. look for the opportunities that change always create and take advantage of them. my advice to you is to not only learn to live with change but to lead change and shape it to your own ends. that to me is that the very core of leadership. do not let others define success for you or expected to hand it

to you. take control of your own future. bill after it. making happen. your experience at und has given you the tools to do just that. as you commence today, you'll carry with you the knowledge, the judgment and a discipline you have demonstrated by the fact you're sitting here today. you'll also carries something else of equal importance. that is the capacity within each of you to take on some of the world's toughest problems and make a difference for others. you know what i am talking about. you have stepped up time again. look at the last year alone. in number of business majors traveled to ghana and volunteered. after seeing a classroom of

eager learners forced to share a single book, and they returned, collected more than a thousand books, and shipped them to g hana, creating a library. nursing majors provided care to ecuador in honduras as part of your annual mission trip. members of the music fraternity funded musical instruments for an orphanage in haiti. and number of the time out of your winter break to do home repair projects for low income or elderly residents and apple asia -- appellation -- appalachia. seven of you actually planned of this year's tournament. another group mentored itf, encouraging them to think about college. regardless of the magnitude of the issue or the challenge, you

did not hesitate to roll up your sleeves, look for solutions to make a difference. over the past academic year, you students collectively contributed 120,000 hours of unpaid service valued at $2.5 million if we dare put a price tag on it. the true value of your service is be on population. [applause] [cheers] there is no lack of consideration. tackling these problems is not always easy. it takes stamina and courage. it also intel some type of sacrifice on the surface.

-- it also takes some type a sacrifice on the service. you often find that your sacrifice is small compared to the challenges but others face. it opens your eyes and deepens your connections to others into the world. what you get back in terms of personal fulfillment far outweighs what you give. that brings me full circle. i began by talking about the challenges ahead if you, challenges which might seem insurmountable. you are here today. it tells you anything but that. i challenge you not only to be optimistic about the future, but also to shape and create our collective future. i challenge you to take on the world. define those issues and problems that matter deeply to you and take action. find solutions to make a difference.

do as gondi implored. be the change that you want to see in the world. you're very well prepared. you're more globally oriented than any graduate in history. you are more adept at communication tools than any graduates before you. the skills you have acquired here both of the head and the heart altered by the love and support you enjoy from the thousands of people here today showed that you are ready to commence. there will be no failure to launch. frank said how wonderful it was that nobody needs to wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. class of 2012, never lose your optimism or passion for making a difference. never forget your experience at this university. you will have many opportunities to fill your dreams and

improved your world. it is your turn. it is your time. my best wishes to each and every one of the. congratulations. [applause] >> coming up, president obama offers recipients at the white house. in a discussion on each of's runoff election. -- disney's runoff election. -- of egypt's runoff of the action. >> eric holder will speak at a conference on voting rights. we will look at a member of newsday boating laws. cisco hosted by the congressional -- is hosted by the congressional black caucus.

later this morning, a discussion on an international proposal that would give the united nations more control over the internet, which has been criticized by congress and the white house. live coverage from the state foundation at 11:45 a.m. eastern. >> president obama hosted the presidential medal of freedom ceremony at the white house. the honorees include former secretary of state madeleine albright, former astronauts john glenn, and bob dylan. this is the highest civilian award and was treated by executive order in 1963 by president john kennedy.

>> ladies and gentlemen, if the president of the united states. >> thank you. thank you very much. everybody, please have a seat, and welcome to the white house. it is an extraordinary pleasure to be here with all of you to present this year's medals of freedom. and i have to say, just looking around the room, this is a packed house, which is a testament to how cool this group is.

everybody wanted to check them out. this is the highest civilian honor this country can bestow, which is ironic, because nobody sets out to win it. no one ever picks up a guitar, or fights a disease, or starts a movement, thinking, "you know what, if i keep this up, in 2012, i could get a medal in the white house from a guy named barack obama." that wasn't in the plan. but that's exactly what makes this award so special. every one of today's honorees is blessed with an extraordinary amount of talent. all of them are driven. but, yes, we could fill this room many times over with people who are talented and driven. what sets these men and women apart is the incredible impact they have had on so many people -- not in short, blinding bursts, but steadily, over the course of a lifetime. together, the honorees on this stage, and the ones who couldn't be here, have moved us with their words, they have inspired us with their actions. they've enriched our lives and they've changed our lives for the better.

some of them are household names, others have labored quietly out of the public eye. most of them may never fully appreciate the difference they've made or the influence that they've had, but that's where our job comes in. it's our job to help let them know how extraordinary their impact has been on our lives. and so today we present this amazing group with one more accolade for a life well led, and that's the presidential medal of freedom. so i'm going to take an opportunity -- i hope you guys don't mind -- to brag about each of you, starting with madeleine albright. usually, madeleine does the talking.

once in a while, she lets her jewelry do the talking. when saddam hussein called her a "snake," she wore a serpent on her lapel the next time she visited baghdad. when slobodan milosevic referred to her as a "goat," a new pin appeared in her collection. as the first woman to serve as america's top diplomat, madeleine's courage and toughness helped bring peace to the balkans and paved the way for progress in some of the most unstable corners of the world. and as an immigrant herself -- the granddaughter of holocaust victims who fled her native czechoslovakia as a child -- madeleine brought a unique perspective to the job.

this is one of my favorite stories. once, at a naturalization ceremony, an ethiopian man came up to her and said, "only in america can a refugee meet the secretary of state." and she replied, "only in america can a refugee become the secretary of state." we're extraordinarily honored to have madeleine here. and obviously, i think it's fair to say i speak for one of your successors who is so appreciative of the work you did and the path that you laid. it was a scorching hot day in 1963, and mississippi was on the verge of a massacre. the funeral procession for medgar evers had just disbanded, and a group of marchers was throwing rocks at a line of equally defiant and heavily- armed policemen. and suddenly, a white man in shirtsleeves, hands raised, walked towards the protestors and talked them into going home

peacefully. and that man was john doar. he was the face of the justice department in the south. he was proof that the federal government was listening. and over the years, john escorted james meredith to the university of mississippi. he walked alongside the selma- to-montgomery march. he laid the groundwork for the civil rights act of 1964 and the voting rights act of 1965. in the words of john lewis, "he gave [civil rights workers] a reason not to give up on those in power." and he did it by never giving up on them. and i think it's fair to say that i might not be here had it not been for his work. bob dylan started out singing other people's songs. but, as he says, "there came a point where i had to write what i wanted to say, because what i wanted to say, nobody else was writing." so born in hibbing, minnesota -- a town, he says, where "you

couldn't be a rebel -- it was too cold" bob moved to new york at age 19. by the time he was 23, bob's voice, with its weight, its unique, gravelly power was redefining not just what music sounded like, but the message it carried and how it made people feel. today, everybody from bruce springsteen to u2 owes bob a debt of gratitude. there is not a bigger giant in the history of american music. all these years later, he's still chasing that sound, still searching for a little bit of truth. and i have to say that i am a really big fan. in the 1960s, more than 2

million people died from smallpox every year. just over a decade later, that number was zero -- 2 million to zero, thanks, in part, to dr. bill foege. as a young medical missionary working in nigeria, bill helped develop a vaccination strategy that would later be used to eliminate smallpox from the face of the earth. and when that war was won, he moved on to other diseases, always trying to figure out what works. in one remote nigerian village, after vaccinating 2,000 people in a single day, bill asked the local chief how he had gotten so many people to show up. and the chief explained that he had told everyone to come see -- to "come to the village and see the tallest man in the world." today, that world owes that really tall man a great debt of gratitude. on the morning that john glenn blasted off into space, america stood still. and for half an hour, the phones stopped ringing in chicago police headquarters, and

new york subway drivers offered a play-by-play account over the loudspeakers. president kennedy interrupted a breakfast with congressional leaders and joined 100 million tv viewers to hear the famous words, "godspeed, john glenn." the first american to orbit the earth, john glenn became a hero in every sense of the word, but he didn't stop there serving his country. as a senator, he found new ways to make a difference. and on his second trip into space at age 77, he defied the odds once again. but he reminds everybody, don't tell him he's lived a historic life. he says, "are living." he'll say, "don't put it in the past tense." he's still got a lot of stuff going on. gordon hirabayashi knew what it was like to stand alone. as a student at the university of washington, gordon was one of only three japanese americans to defy the executive order that forced thousands of families to leave their homes, their jobs, and their civil rights behind and move to internment camps during world war ii.

he took his case all the way to the supreme court, and he lost. and it would be another 40 years before that decision was reversed, giving asian americans everywhere a small measure of justice. in gordon's words, "it takes a crisis to tell us that unless citizens are willing to standup for the [constitution], it's not worth the paper it's written on." and this country is better off because of citizens like him who are willing to stand up. similarly, when cesar chavez sat dolores huerta down at his kitchen table and told her they should start a union, she thought he was joking. she was a single mother of seven children, so she obviously didn't have a lot of free time. but dolores had been an elementary school teacher and remembered seeing children come to school hungry and without

shoes. so in the end, she agreed -- and workers everywhere are glad that she did. without any negotiating experience, dolores helped lead a worldwide grape boycott that forced growers to agree to some of the country's first farm worker contracts. and ever since, she has fought to give more people a seat at the table." don't wait to be invited," she says, "step in there." and on a personal note, dolores was very gracious when i told her i had stolen her slogan, "si, se puede." yes, we can. knowing her, i'm pleased that she let me off easy because dolores does not play. for years, jan karski's students at georgetown university knew he was a great professor, what they didn't realize was he was also a hero. fluent in four languages, possessed of a photographic

memory, jan served as a courier for the polish resistance during the darkest days of world war ii. before one trip across enemy lines, resistance fighters told him that jews were being murdered on a massive scale, and smuggled him into the warsaw ghetto and a polish death camp to see for himself. jan took that information to president franklin roosevelt, giving one of the first accounts of the holocaust and imploring to the world to take action. it was decades before jan was ready to tell his story. by then, he said, "i don't need courage anymore. so i teach compassion." growing up in georgia in the late 1800s, juliette gordon low was not exactly typical. she flew airplanes.

she went swimming. she experimented with electricity for fun. and she recognized early on that in order to keep up with the changing times, women would have to be prepared. so at age 52, after meeting the founder of the boy scouts in england, juliette came home and called her cousin and said, "i've got something for the girls of savannah, and all of america, and all the world. and we're going to start it tonight!" a century later, almost 60 million girl scouts have gained leadership skills and self-confidence through the organization that she founded. they include ceos, astronauts, my own secretary of state.

and from the very beginning, they have also included girls of different races and faiths and abilities, just the way that juliette would have wanted it. toni morrison -- she is used to a little distraction. as a single mother working at a publishing company by day, she would carve out a little time in the evening to write, often with her two sons pulling on her hair and tugging at her earrings. once, a baby spit up on her tablet so she wrote around it. circumstances may not have been ideal, but the words that came out were magical. toni morrison's prose brings us that kind of moral and emotional intensity that few writers ever attempt. from "song of solomon" to "beloved," toni reaches us deeply, using a tone that is lyrical, precise, distinct, and inclusive. she believes that language "arcs toward the place where meaning might lie." the rest of us are lucky to be following along for the ride. during oral argument, justice john paul stevens often began his line of questioning with a polite, "may i interrupt?" or "may i ask a question?" you can imagine the lawyers would say, "okay" after which he would, just as politely, force a lawyer to stop dancing

around and focus on the most important issues in the case. and that was his signature style, modest, insightful, wel- prepared, razor-sharp. he is the third-longest serving justice in the history of the court. and justice stevens applied, throughout his career, his clear and graceful manner to the defense of individual rights and the rule of law, always favoring a pragmatic solution over an ideological one. ever humble, he would happily comply when unsuspecting tourists asked him to take their picture in front of the court. and at his vacation home in florida, he was john from arlington, better known for his world-class bridge game than his world-changing judicial opinions. even in his final days on the bench, justice stevens insisted he was still "learning on the job." but in the end, we are the ones who have learned from him. when a doctor first told pat summitt she suffered from

dementia, she almost punched him. when a second doctor advised her to retire, she responded, "do you know who you're dealing with here?" obviously, they did not. as pat says, "i can fix a tractor, mow hay, plow a field, chop tobacco, fire a barn, obviously, they did not. as pat says, "i can fix a tractor, mow hay, plow a field, chop tobacco, fire a barn, and call the cows. but what i'm really known for is winning." in 38 years at tennessee, she racked up eight national championships and more than 1,000 wins -- understand, this is more than any college coach, male or female, in the history of the ncaa. and more importantly, every player that went through her program has either graduated or is on her way to a degree. that's why anybody who feels sorry for pat will find themselves on the receiving end of that famous glare, or she might punch you. [laughter] she's still getting up every

day and doing what she does best, which is teaching." the players," she says, "are my best medicine." our final honoree is not here -- shimon peres, the president of israel, who has done more for the cause of peace in the middle east than just about anybody alive. i'll be hosting president peres for a dinner here at the white house next month, and we'll be presenting him with his medal and honoring his incredible contributions to the state of israel and the world at that time. so i'm looking forward to welcoming him. and if it's all right with you, i will save my best lines about him for that occasion. so these are the recipients of the 2012 medals of freedom. and just on a personal note, i had a chance to see everybody in the back. what's wonderful about these events for me is so many of these people are my heroes individually.

i know how they impacted my life. i remember reading "song of solomon" when i was a kid and not just trying to figure out how to write, but also how to be and how to think. and i remember in college listening to bob dylan and my world opening up because he captured something that -- about this country that was so vital. and i think about dolores huerta, reading about her when i was starting off as an organizer. everybody on this stage has marked my life in profound ways. and i was telling -- somebody like pat summitt -- when i think about my two daughters, who are tall and gifted, and knowing that because of folks like coach summitt they're standing up straight and diving

after loose balls and feeling confident and strong, then i understand that the impact that these people have had extends beyond me. it will continue for generations to come. what an extraordinary honor to be able to say thank you to all of them for the great work that they have done on behalf of this country and on behalf of the world. so it is now my great honor to present them with a small token of our appreciation. [applause] >> presidential medal of freedom citations, madeleine korbel albright. madeleine korbel albright broke barriers and left an indelible mark on the world as the first

female secretary of state in the united states' history. through her consummate diplomacy and steadfast democratic ideals, secretary albright advanced peace in the middle east, nuclear arms control, justice in the balkans, and human rights around the world. with unwavering leadership and continued engagement with the global community, she continues her noble pursuit of freedom and dignity for all people. >> i think this goes very well with your broach. [laughter] [the medal is presented] [applause] >> john doar. as african americans strove for justice, john doar led federal

efforts to defend equality and enforce civil rights. risking his life to confront the injustices around him, he prevented a violent riot, obtained convictions for the killings of civil rights activists, and stood by the first african american student at the university of mississippi on his first day of class. during pivotal moments in the civil rights movement and in the troubled times of the watergate scandal, john doar fought to protect the core values of liberty, equality and democracy that have made america a leader among nations. [applause] [the medal is presented]

>> bill foege. >> he is pretty tall. [laughter] >> a distinguished physician and epidemiologist, bill foege helped lead a campaign to eradicate smallpox that stands among medicine's greatest success stories. at the centers for disease control and prevention, the carter center, and the bill and melinda gates foundation, he has taken on humanity's most intractable public health challenges from infectious diseases to child survival and development. bill foege has driven decades of progress to safeguard the well- being of all, and he has inspired a generation of leaders in the fight for a healthier world. [applause]

[the medal is presented] john glenn has set a peerless example through his service to our nation. as a marine corps pilot and the first american to orbit the earth, he sparked our passions for ingenuity and adventure and lifted humanity's ambitions into the expanses of space. in the united states senate, he worked tirelessly to ensure all americans had the opportunity to reach for limitless dreams. whether by advancing legislation to limit the spread of nuclear weapons or by becoming the oldest person ever to visit space, john glenn's example has moved us all to look to new horizons with drive and optimism.

[applause] [the medal is presented] susan carnahan, accepting on behalf of her husband gordon kiyoshi hirabayashi. in his open defiance of discrimination against japanese americans during world war ii, gordon kiyoshi hirabayashi demanded our nation live up to its founding principles. imprisoned for ignoring curfew and refusing to register for internment camps, he took his case to the supreme court, which ruled against him in 1943. refusing to abandon his belief in an america that stands for fundamental human rights, he pursued justice until his

conviction was overturned in 1987. gordon hirabayashi's legacy reminds us that patriotism is rooted not in ethnicity, but in our shared ideals. and his example will forever call on us to defend the liberty of all our citizens. [applause] [the medal is presented] dolores clara fernandez huerta. one of america's great labor and civil rights icons, dolores clara fernandez huerta has devoted her life to advocating for marginalized communities. alongside cesar chavez, she co- founded the united farm workers of america and fought to secure basic rights for migrant

workers and their families, helping save thousands from neglect and abuse. dolores huerta has never lost faith in the power of community organizing, and through the dolores huerta foundation, she continues to train and mentor new activists to walk the streets into history. [applause] [the medal is presented] adam daniel rotfeld, former polish foreign minister accepting on behalf of jan karski. as a young officer in the polish underground, jan karski was among the first to relay accounts of the holocaust to the world.

a witness to atrocity in the warsaw ghetto and the nazi izbica transit camp, he repeatedly crossed enemy line to document the face of genocide, and courageously voiced tragic truths all the way to president roosevelt. jan karski illuminated one of the darkest chapters of history, and his heroic intervention on behalf of the innocent will never be forgotten. [applause] [the medal is presented] richard platt, accepting on behalf of his great aunt, juliette gordon low. an artist, athlete and trailblazer for america's daughters, juliette gordon low founded an organization to teach

young women self-reliance and resourcefulness. a century later, during the "year of the girl," the girl scouts' more than 3 million members are leaders in their communities and are translating new skills into successful careers. americans of all backgrounds continue to draw inspiration from juliette gordon low's remarkable vision, and we celebrate her dedication to empowering girls everywhere. [applause] toni morrison. the first african american woman to win a nobel prize, toni morrison is one of our nation's most distinguished storytellers. she has captivated readers

through lyrical prose that depicts the complexities of a people and challenges our concepts of race and gender. her works are hallmarks of the american literary tradition, and the united states proudly honors her for her nursing of souls and strengthening the character of our union. [applause] [the medal is presented] john paul stevens. from the navy to the bench, john paul stevens has devoted himself

to service to our nation. after earning a bronze star in world war ii, stevens returned home to pursue a career in law. as an attorney, he became a leading practitioner of anti- trust law. and as a supreme court justice, he dedicated his long and distinguished tenure to applying our constitution with fidelity and independence. his integrity, humility, and steadfast commitment to the rule of law have fortified the noble vision of our nation's founders. [applause] [the medal is presented] pat summitt.

pat summitt is an unparalleled figure in collegiate sports. over 38 seasons, she proudly led the university of tennessee lady volunteers to 32 sec tournament and regular season championships and eight national titles, becoming the all-time winningest coach in ncaa basketball history. on the court, coach summitt inspired young women across our country to shoot even higher in pursuit of their dreams. off the court, she has inspired us all by turning her personal struggle into a public campaign to combat alzheimer's disease. pat summitt's strength and character exemplify all that is best about athletics in america. [applause] [the medal is presented]

bob dylan. >> come on, bob. [laughter] >> a modern-day troubadour, bob dylan established himself as one of the most influential musicians of the 20th century. the rich poetry of his lyrics opened up new possibilities for popular song and inspired generations. his melodies have brought ancient traditions into the modern age. more than 50 years after his career began, bob dylan remains an eminent voice in our national conversation and around the world. [applause] [the medal is presented]

>> can everybody please stand and give a rousing applause to our medal of freedom winners? [cheers and applause] [applause]

well, we could not be prouder of all of them. we could not be more grateful to all of them. you have had an impact on all of us, and i know that you will continue to have an impact on all of us. so thank you for being here. thank you for putting yourself through white house ceremonies which are always full of all kinds of protocol. fortunately, we also have a reception afterwards. i hear the food around here is pretty good. [laughter] so i look forward to all of you having a chance to stay and mingle, and again, thank you again, to all of you. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, please remain in your seat as a president departs.

♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> and washington journal tomorrow morning, a writer jay cost talks about his book "spoiled rotten." we will look at finance reform and the lawsuit of j.p. morgan with conor kennedy. "washington journal" is live on c-span every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. the top two of the getters in the egyptian election will be

each other in a runoff election next month. the candidates are mohamed morsi and ahmed shafiq. this is an hour and 15 minutes. >> thank you. first of all, thank you for coming. i am the chairman of the board for the center for national policy. under the guidance today of our senior fellow for middle east policy, we are thrilled to have this very important program. it is one of the most important programs we have had given the terribly urgent and critical events going on in egypt. quickly, the center for national policy deals with foreign policy and defense matters. we have been doing this for nearly three decades.

my predecessor leon panetta and albright was our president. i mention secondary panetta -- secretary panetta will be honored. we cannot have a greater expert than greg. his background is in academia and capitol hill. he has been an expert for decades. he is recognized in his publications and by is on capitol hill. he is an adviser to many important legislators. in academia, he currently has a professorship at the university of massachusetts. his own background is dartmouth university and the london school of economics. some of the most important places in the subject area.

we are thrilled that he has decided he will guide us through this important subject at this terribly important moment. with that, and turn it over to him. >> thank you. i appreciate your kind comments. welcome to the center for national policy. before i begin, i would like to thank you the cnp staff for helping me organized this event. as many of you know, egypt has been going through a very profound and difficult democratic transition since the fall of the president from power in 2011. there are many knowns and unk nowns at this point. there are two top vote getters from the first round of presidential elections. mohamed morsi and former prime

minister to hosni mubarak, ahmed shafiq. the outcome of this election has -- many you have seen the reports in the last 24 hours. there were demonstrations in one of the squares. the two prior to this election was that the former minister and the secretary-general of the week would be there. they did not reach those talk to the positions. many other young bridge revolutionaries in the square are very upset with the outcome. we do not know what will take place in the coming weeks. to make matters even more complicated, we do not know the presidential powers.

there was a committee to draft a new egyptian constitution, but one of the egyptian higher courts says that this panel would have to be disbanded. we have a presidential election without clearly defined presidential powers. certainly members of parliament want there to be strong powers in the new egypt. given egyptian history, whoever becomes egyptian president will certainly have a lot of powers and will influence the direction of the country, not only in terms of egypt, but also in terms of egypt's's relations with the arab world. u s-egyptian relations as well. all of these issues are very important. we will try to address them today. i am pleased to have a distinguished panel with us today. many of these people i have known over the years. they have all contributed to my knowledge of understand egyptian

society and policy. i want to spend a few minutes to introduce these panelists. the we can start with the discussion. to my left is mr. karim haggag. he is focusing on the implication of the arab revolution. prior to this position, he was director of an egyptian office in washington, d.c. from 2007- 2011. his is possible for egyptian relations. he is responsible for is really- year issues. andolds a bachelor's degree

a master's degree from king's college in london. thank you for being here. to my far right is mr. thomas gorguissian. he has written extensively of egyptian policy. he has written in a number of egyptian publications. in addition, he is appeared frequently in many arabic and english television programs, including c-span, cnn, al jeezra. currently, he is a washington representative for the online daily journal. to my immediate right is dr. mohamed alaa abdel-moneim.

he is is assistant professor in the faculty of economics in political science at cairo university. he is author of numerous publications of issues related to society. he has done the egyptian profile for an online encyclopedia. he clearly teaches at an american university and offers courses on contemporary egyptian politics, minorities in the middle east. without further ado, i welcome the panelists and our audience. >> thank you come greg. thank you for organizing this important panel. just before i start, i feel in a somewhat odd position to not make one, but two disclaimers.

as an egyptian diplomat, i am here representing not the egyptian government, but my own views. also as a visiting faculty of the national defense university, which is a dod organization, and certainly do not represent the views of the u.s. government. with those two disclaimers, i want to thank greg for that introduction and for inviting me. predicting elections is always a hazardous business. i think the injection election is no exception -- egyptian election is no exception. it will be held on june 16-17. we will see the face off between mohamed morsi and ahmed shafiq. of of some both garnered 24% of the votes in the first round.

the election so far has been remarkably surprising. the results have defied all the predictions that the experts have put forward. most of the polling put the top two front runners as foermer prime minister who broke off from the muslim brotherhood about a year ago to run as an independent president. the high election council announced the final results of the first round yesterday. there have been some very interesting developments in the last 24 hours, with demonstrations in the square and the torching of his campaign headquarters. i think what we have is a very highly dynamic situation heading into the run off of these elections. what i thought i would do just to set the scene is talk not so

much about the candidates, but about the broad context of these elections. and what we can expect to see in the second round or in the run off of these elections. but also what they signified 4 pager's transition in politics. transition in politics. it is the first time that we have a contest for political power in the office of the head of state of the egyptian republic. the office of the head of state. that is a truly unique development. these elections also marked the end of the transition, the post- revolutionary transition, which is a supreme council of the armed forces that has acted as the caretaker. they are expected to transfer power at the end of june.

it is egypt. it is the most central arab state. one fifth of all arabs are an egyptian. egypt is the political and ideological center of the arab world. these elections due matter. the central question that these elections pose is, can they provide a solution to what has been a crisis of political legitimacy in the aftermath of the revolution against the mubarak regime. revolutions are born out of a legitimacy crisis. the revolution overturns the legitimacy of the old order. what we have seen is that there has been no new legitimacy to take its place. that has left a political vacuum that has been filled by

competing legitimacies. there has been the legitimacy of the military. there is the legitimacy of the revolution itself, which overturned the mubarak regime. that has taken the form of repeated demonstrations in the square, declaring its own legitimacy. then we have the muslim brotherhood who claimed their own electoral legitimacy to lead egypt's future through the ballot box. they are very adept. we have a situation of these competing legitimacies. now the real test of these elections is, will they decide the issue of legitimacy moving forward?

the easiest way to summarize what is a very complex situation is to talk about the positives and negatives of these elections. on the positive side, this has been a good election. it has been remarkably competitive with clear alternatives provided by five of the leading top candidates. the role of the military as a caretaker of the election, despite all of the problems, has been quite positive. there were widespread expectations that the military would put off the elections. they have had numerous opportunities to do so. they held a very clear to the election schedule and timetable. for all of the talk of the military favoring a particular candidate, there does not appear

to be any evidence of vote tampering or electoral fraud. despite the numerous legal challenges, much of the campaign has run smoothly and provided for a provocative debate. all indications point to a the fact that the military will hand over power to a civilian government. we can put that on the positive ledger for these elections. second and most importantly, these elections produce a highly dynamic political map in egypt. in contrast to the parliamentary elections, which were held last november, which saw the islamist win a 75% of the vote. the secular forces combined gaining 25%.

in this election, the three top islamist candidates received 35% of the vote. this is between the front runner, who is mohamed morsi, the independent candidate, and a lesser known islamist candidate who garnered 6% of the vote. between them, they won a 35% of the vote. we also see the sharp shift in the political map in the remnants of the national democratic party, which was the ruling party during the mubarak era. the ndp won the seats and did very badly. -- no seats and did very badly.

they have mobilized for a campaign in support of ahmed shafiq. in addition to that, this was a remarkable surprise, the socialist candidate really turned out to be the dark horse in this election. he ran as an independent with a clear leftist agenda. most polls seem to have dismissed the fact he would do well. he came in third. garner and roughly 21% of the vote. winning in areas that have been known to be traditional strongholds of the muslim brotherhood. cairo, alexandria, and also in the four rural districts of the delta. the political map that the

merged -- that emerged, now we have a completely different map that is highly diverse and shows what is a very healthy sign, that politics is alive and well. it is turning out to be a very competitive race. related to this, it shows that the electorate is highly engaged and highly mobilized. what we have seen over the course of the last few months is the electorate has focused closely on the ups and downs of egyptian politics. i think the most significant thing we have seen has taken the form of what seems to be a backlash against the muslim brotherhood. there is a rising concern of the prospect that the muslim

brotherhood of monopolizing all of the levels of politics. that was reflected in the fact that they did so well in the parliamentary elections. the tendency to monopolize the constitution writing process. they are contesting the presidential elections after they had committed not to do so. what the electorate -- what we have seen in terms of how the votes have split reflects the fact that the electorate is highly engaged and watching the developments of egyptian politics closely. it is mobilized, politicized, it is highly engaged in the political process. if we move to the negative side, the outcome that is before us, the election that will feature ahmed shafiq and mohamed morsi

set up for a polarized outcome. shafiq seems to be the complete antithesis of everything the revelation has stood for. the revolutionaries will argue that egypt did not go through this transition only to see the restoration of the old order represented by general shafiq. egypt did not have to go through all of this just so we could go back to the old order. the same applies to the muslim brotherhood. it has tended to confirm the worst fears of mainstream egyptians of one political party monopolizing all power. we have in these two candidates what are very polarizing tendencies.

this adds to what is or what has been a very problematic transition since the overthrow of mubarak. if we factor in the fact that the turnout for this election was less than 50%, roughly 47%, each of the candidates will have only garnered 12% of all of the votes cast by eligible voters. the clam will be that they represent only a minority of the electorate. however, on the other hand, the days when an egyptian president will garner a majority, i think those days are long gone. to explain this situation, which i think is -- it has this highly polarized situation.

it has already triggered some incidents. we have seen them develop over the last 24 hours. i think the reason why we have ended up with this polar as situation is a function of the polarized nature of the transition itself. over the last 15 months, we have had a situation where the was a polarized -- where there was a polarized debate, religion versus secular politics, the old guard of versus the new revolution, the muslim brotherhood immerses the protesters. all of this in a highly charged political environment. there was no negotiating forum to develop a consensus. i think, more importantly, the reason why we have this polarized outcome has to do

with what is the anomalous nature of the revolution itself. the revolution started out much more as a protest movement then as a full-fledged revolution. it was not a revolution in the classic sense. where we have a defined leadership that can put forward an alternative vision for the old legitimacy that crumbled with the fall of mubarak. the revolutionaries, because of the quality, the leader of this quality, had a hard time transitioning -- leaderlss quality, had a hard time transition in. the revelation -- transitioning. the revolution did not put forward a candidate. this left the field open to

other candidates. one claimed to speak for the revolution. he assembled a very odd coalition of secularists. he did not manage to convince the broader electorate that he was the one who spoke for the revolution. another man, the same thing. he claimed the mantle of the revolution on a platform of gradual change from within. the far right candidate, all of them claimed to speak for the revolution. none of them represented the type of candidate that can lead a third force in egyptian politics between the muslim brotherhood and the military establishment and the old order represented by general shafiq.

the revolution was always ambivalent about a formal political process. the revolutionaries were the biggest losers in the previous parliamentary elections held in november. now they find themselves heading into the runoff on january 16 without a candidate to represent them. there is no clearly defined center in egyptian politics. what we have now is the polar extremes represented by mr. morsi and general shafiq. what can we expect heading into the runoff? much will depend on how the next three weeks developed. we will see two competing ideas between now and the 16th. we will see a process of politics and a process of protest. the process of politics has

already begun with the two leading candidates beginning to woo the independent voters who have broken for the three candidates who did not make it into the second round. they are talking about political maneuvering, deal between the candidates. certain guarantees, and especially on the part of the brotherhood. that, i think, will be one process. the other process will be represented by the protesters. this is what we have seen over the course of the last 24 hours. the revolutionaries will seek to delegitimize the election. this will take the form of protest, legal challenges against the process. i think we will see these two competing themes as we head into

the runoff. i think, just to conclude, i think given everything we have seen in how this has played out and the political landscape that has developed that has shown a remarkable degree of polar some, i think the trend is towards consensus. more importantly, the consensus that the new president will have to base his legitimacy on after the election. given everything we have seen, we can assume it is that which will be the hallmark of how the next president will seek to govern. let me and if there. i am sure there are much more things to address -- let me end there. i am sure there are much more things to address. >> i would like to turn to thomas.

>> presidential elections, it is another turning point. it is another historical moment. it is another step towards democracy. that is how people are describing it. it is done in the name of presidential elections. it is hard to believe that all of these turning points, historical moments, that they have taken place in the last 16 months. they are still taking place in egypt. yet, more will come. more is expected. more we will see it, sooner than later. i will try to be realistic. it was always optimistic or pessimistic. this is the main question that everyone asks, whether in the

personal or public life. as you will see in my speech, my presentation, i will try to act like the admin, collecting ideas and throwing them to people. maybe they like it, whatever. poke it, whatever. i will try to do my best. the main thing is optimistic or pessimistic. most of the egyptians are pessimistic in the short term and optimistic in the long term. there is another question. how do you see -- the full half or the empty half of the cup?

one of the best answer is i get is a i see the full half, but it is full of what? that is the main question. the main question in the coming weeks, in four weeks, four weeks in which egypt will be shaped. some of the questions will be answered. the last two or three weeks, whenever you read any analysis by experts, observers, analysts, most of the questions are unanswered. still, egypt's case is unclear. it is true. many factors, as mr. haggag explained, this is the case that is in front of us. there is history, there is politics, there is a religion

factor, there is the use of religion as a factor in shaping or misshapen things. all of these factors are acting or reacting or preaching or teaching people in the name of the revolution. -- or cheating people in the name of the revolution. the people want, they want what? they want to say what they want to say. in the coming four weeks, why it is important. i will start from this week. two days later, today is tuesday, thursday, the parliament will decide if they are going to extend another year of emergency loans. this is going to be another bargain. saturday, it is expected that a

verdict will come up regarding to mubarak. we will see what will happen as a reaction. two days ago, it was announced that the arab league foreign ministers are going to have a meeting on saturday. it was transferred to doha from cairo because on saturday there will be the trial of mubarak. from now on, many things will happen. we are beginning to figure out how these 50 million people will vote. 50 million people are there. those who vote are 46%. it is 23 million. the first two candidates, the front-runners, they got 10

million. there was another 13 million people. we have, out of the 50 million, -- 23 million, how many of the rest will come out to vote? one of the issues we raised yesterday, maybe there is something, people talking about fraud. in the parliamentary elections, those who participate in the elections, and even before that, in the case of the referendum, the number was 46 million. in the last three or four months, according to some people, lawyers, politicians, four million or 5 million people

were added. who are these people? how were they added? who did it? who is asking? who is not answering? egypt is very interesting. why i am asking this question, when karim was lev -- elaborating, it is very interesting we are asking this question. in the last 10 years before january, 2011, the only question asked, it was raised, if mubarak's time would come when not. it was not just in egypt. it was in this town. the main question, is he coming?

people ask, if he is coming, how will he be able to come without making any problems? as a matter of fact, most of the issues raised were related to this one issue. it is a nation of 80 million people -- more than that. 50 million of going to vote. what about the rest? there is another issue which is very interesting about the coming days. say, the election, let's most of the questions -- the presidential election, there is a question mark or exclamation mark about what is the

president's job description? i will not say the power. the job description. nobody knows. at the beginning of the revolution, people were saying, we do not want another pharao. oa. this is another issue. first, what is the power? what kind of power he has. i cannot say she has, at least not now. in the future, maybe. we are having this issue. the second issue, which is very important, what is going to be the supreme council of armed forces situation starting from

july 1? it is not that far. july 1. they promised to leave the power. this is what everybody else in the world believes, including washington. i am saying washington because part of our discussion will be about how washington and cairo for see or see the future together. what is going to be the situation, what kind of power? people are arguing about the issues. it is going to be civilian. one man is a former military person, ahmed shafiq. we may argue that he is not wearing the uniform now. that is another issue.

it is still there. islamists, that is a big issue. the whole issue of this, we are going to be like what? usually people are asking, is egypt going to be -- i am asking a lot of questions. it is question time. i do not believe there is an answer to it. unless you have a crystal ball. the question is, a question or a challenge, how islamists are going to control this situation. if they want to monopolize, probably, that is what they want to do. how can they do it? that is the big question. who is going to do what?

who is going to form the government? people say, the parliament forms the government. according to military people, there are some ministers who do not want to get rid of the department. the foreign ministry, defense, finance, and interior minister. they want the president to appoint them. what kind of power will the president have? will he be able to dissolve the parliament? another factor is, we have to think about it, as long as we are talking about people from congress, people from the state department, the relation between the u.s. and egypt. how is it going to be in the coming years? is it chipping in a different way?

maybe. in the last 10 years, the relation between washington and middle eastern countries -- there is a security partnership. especially when it is related to getting the terrorist. -- terrorists. it is an issue of security measures and stability. when they are talking about is lummis, military, it will raise the issue, who is the good friend? all of them, they say, we are not going to talk about it tonight. maybe they argue about the egyptian forces in sinai. in all cases, those who worry

about egypt, there are a lot of people. we have to say there are a lot of people. women are worried. liberals are worried. it is not a matter of exaggeration. it is a matter of reality. why is it a reality? it is not a matter of islamic or not islamic, it is the perception of power. what is the perception of power? i you going to rule the country or controlled my rights? -- are you going to rule the country or control my rights? it is not a matter of christian and muslim, it is a matter of principles, human dignity, social justice. it mike looked romantic now. it was the reality.

-- it might look romantic now. it was the reality. there are a lot of challenges. when you ask questions, you will realize what i tried to explain. thank you. >> thank you very much. you give us a lot of food for thought. now i would like to turn to mohamed. >> thank you. you made my job really difficult. i am going to send a few messages about looking at the near term, what is happening in the elections. first, what have we learned from the first elections? some learned that if you do not unite, you lose. it is important.

and i a conspiracy theorist to think that maybe this is not just a failure? it is a possibility. if we look at the low profile that shafiq has kept throughout the election time, maybe this work in his favor. a second thing, the revolution and revolutionaries, who won and who lost. i think it goes both ways. the revolution 1. some of the votes -- won. sum up the votes the revolutionaries have got. collectively, they got 9.3 million votes. they have got way more.

they did not unite. if we add mohamed morsi, from one perspective, it is 15 million votes. we are speaking about tripled the number of votes. from one perspective, the revolution 1. from another perspective, it lost. why is this the case? from one perspective, prolonging the transition period. egypt is very decentralized. ironically, this is one of the things that mubarak called for. he said early elections. i do not trust him. i do not think he would have left. i think it was very important not to prolong the transition. the other thing is that the

divisions among the revolutionary forces, it cost them a lot. a lot of people preferred security. with a lot of protests, people do understand what the purpose is. all of these mistakes, we ended up with a 51% turnout. if they were united, they would win the majority of the vote. the interesting situation is at the moment, 75% of the egyptians in two dozen 5, they did not vote for the muslim brotherhood. in 2006, they did not vote for mubarak. we are asking them to choose between shafiq, who is an extension of mubarak, and the muslim brotherhood.

the majority of egyptians did not vote for each of. -- either. the amount of votes by the muslim brotherhood -- in the parliamentary elections, they got 47%. what does this tell us about the performance? it is an interesting thing about the people. they know how to penalize poor performance. they have a point of view. they do not just go after oil and sugar. this is a very important point. the revolution did win and lose. you can call me a conspiracy theorist. just throwing out some messages here. i think the national democratic party its structure, its

network, it is functioning very well. maybe the showing was intentionally low. they kept a low profile. the networks are still there. this is another possibly contesting thing. there are normally three parties contesting. we are speaking about revolutionary forces, the muslim brotherhood, also, ndp. it is alliances. these are the short messages. we can continue to think about them. where are we going from there? before speaking about the president. who is going to make it? who is not going to make it? let's agree that the structure is that a going to govern the ability of becoming president to

act -- the structures that are going to govern the ability of becoming president to act are established structures. they were established under mubarak. it has been established since 1953. the security establishment, the intelligence, they are very decentralized. the president might be begging for his daily briefing. the head of the intelligence was handpicked. we are speaking about lots of tradition within these establishments. we are speaking about the president. there has to be something. otherwise, it is going to be a deadlock. the coming president, whoever he is, he is going to face two

challenges. i would like to distinguish. existing challenges and new challenges. the existing challenges include high unemployment, the economic situation. the situation in sinai is way more serious. there are lots of weapons. the intelligence establishment, without it, the job is going to be difficult. some are saying the staff is making the situation tougher. they are making it tough for the people. they are driving them to hate the revolution. if this is what they are doing, it is alarming. they can control cairo, that is not a big deal. this might not be the case in sinai. these are existing challenges.

new challenges, cards. in addition to the constitution, this is a problem. in addition to extending the emergency loan, gas prices are going to rise. we know that. security is definitely a problem. gasoline is another problem. some people are happy. whether they are happy or not, they are legal decisions. there might be millions of dollars that egypt has. becoming president -- these issues are waiting. they might be intentionally created to welcome him. then, there are expected price hikes generally.

general price hikes. how can we speak about -- we are speaking about morsi, shafiq, they are going to go for the runoff. i distinguish three kinds of discourses. given the complexity of this situation. the first discourse is the contest between the revolution, morsi, and the old establishment, represented by shafiq. it puts the revolutionary forces on one side, including the liberals, and shafiq on the other. they have to give guarantees to the people.

unfortunately, i see a lot of revolutionary forces aiming at boycotting the election. this is going to be very difficult for the muslim brotherhood. in other words, shafiq is going to get a good deal of the vote. he is going to get part of the votes that went to the secular candidates. if morsi can get the votes that went to the two other men, this is going to be problematic. we are missing people say they are going to boycott the election. it is serious. they need to give guarantees. some of the guarantees are unrealistic. some are calling for dissolving the muslim brotherhood. this is unrealistic. some real-estate guarantees include agreeing on the name of the people who are going to be members of the constitution committee.

the of the thing is a promise to establish -- the other thing is to promise to establish a new government after the election which is not going to be headed by a member of the muslim brotherhood. plus, some other guarantees like a written promise or decree or whatever you call it saying, here is what we promise. a government, a coalition government, vice president, here are the names of the people in the committees. some steps have been taken in this regard. i do not know how functional they are. one other important request would demand to morsi is to demarcate the relationship between the muslim brotherhood and egypt. the freedom justice party wanted

to run a candidate. the decision was made in the office of the muslim brotherhood. these are some of the demands. another negative is that this is a contest between civil society, the muslim brotherhood, and the deep state, which includes a strong vote for the military. another discourse, the narrow coalitions. look at the runoff as a contest between mubarak's establishment, represented by shafiq, and islamist friends. this is not in the favor of either of the parties. shafiq does not want to be perceived as part of mubarak's

establishment or part of the security state. morsi wants to include not only islamist parties, he wants the voices that went to others. 50% of the egyptians are centrists. many voting are voting for the center. it penalized the muslim brotherhood. this is another task force. -- discourse. another discourse sees this as an islamist secularist contest. both parties are working on the fear factor. this has been the case for the first round of elections, playing on the fear factor. shafiq is building a strong coalition. ishink shafiq's alliance

stronger. why? the alliance is businessmen, it is some part of the community, even the young christians are likely to shift to shafiq in the second round of must strong steps are taken by the muslim brotherhood. -- round and less strong steps are taken by the muslim brotherhood. -- round unless trong steps are taken by the muslim brotherhood. shafiq is playing on the fears of this system. interfering in personal lives, in art, culture, society, this

is a threat. it is the effect of an islamist state. -- the threat of an islamist date. morsi -- state. morsi is playing on fears that shafiq might be a reinvention of mubarak. that it is civil society versus the deep state. they need bold steps to build bridges and a stronger declaration. the problem is that since mubarak's oust, the brotherhood did not show that. losing the voice is very dangerous. this in at the center position -- losing the center position, more abstention, what will

happen if the turnout is 35%? who will win? i am not speculating. i am not campaigning. i think shafiq has a coalition with a stronger group. he has a bleak business people. he has members of the -- he has elite business people. he has members of the ndp. two quick points. shafiq is closer. this might be a problem for morsi. shafiq will suffer from the parliament and some interviews. i know the muslim brothers are intentionally blocking some steps needed in the economy. the imf wanted to give egypt a

loan. the muslim brothers insisted they are going to block it. they do not want the government to benefit. maybe having morsi with help. can we look at the deal between the muslim brothers wiccan except -- where they can accept shafiq as president if they appoint ministers. is this possible? we can hope it is possible. i think we can see this is a possible deal. the muslim brothers are interested in establishing bridges. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. you raised a lot of very interesting question. it will affect egypt in the

weeks and months ahead. i would like to open it up to questions from the audience. please raise your hand and identify yourself. we will try to get to as many as possible. >> you have all mentioned how low the turnout was. around 50%. even you mentioned it may go as low as 35%, affecting the credibility. why do you think not that many came out? what i your expectations for the runoff? >> -- are your expectations for the runoff? >> it is good we reached that number. that is a big issue. for 60 years, people were not voting. in the 1970's, they were voting for the first time. i was surprised that i saw a lot of people who are politicians,

they did not vote. that is another thing. as we say, do not worry, we will take care of your vote. this is the concept. to see people voting, that is a big thing. just to give you a number, mubarak, when he was elected, -- elected, he got 6 million votes. at that time, those who vote -- the poll was 32 million people eligible to vote. 7 million people cast their vote. i did not know the percentage.

>> go ahead. >> people give up. -- gave up. people wanted to get done with the transition. we know the rosters of people who were allowed to vote were not revised. there were names of people who had passed away. there were some people who were outside of egypt, the registered twice. -- they were registered twice. another technical problem, in the parliamentary elections, we had 45 million voters. now we have 50 million. 5 million people were added to the rosters. who are they? it is something we are not sure about. we know that egyptians are

registered outside. there are a lot of problems with the rosters. >> you are asking about the vote. we know that between 7 to 9 million egyptians are living abroad, outside of egypt. of those who registered to vote, 400,000 people out of the 7 million to 9 million people. in the united states, those who register is 30,000 people. we expect that in the united states, there is 1 million people -- 30,000 people registered to vote. >> question. [inaudible]

60% of eligible voters. i have a question in regards to the progression. i see they have put the cart before the horse by having the election before the constitution is written. the president's job description has not been written. you have the presidential election. it is the same thing for the parliament. they went faster in that direction. i think he should have a constitution before you have an election. i wonder if anyone can comment on that. >> do you want to? the easiest answer is that the transition has unfortunately,

from the beginning, been a work in progress. if you go back to what i was trying to describe about the issue of competing legitimacies, there was no consensus on the design, sequence, or time frame of the transition. they put up a of a template for the transition that was always -- put out a vague template for the transition that has always been subject to pressure, legal challenges, renegotiation. that will explain the situation that you described. initially, the original intent was to have the constitution before the presidential election. what happened? two things happened. pressure on the part of the demonstrators to bring up

presidential election. we would do to have presidential elections month from bell -- months from now. they had to bring up the timetable. at the same time, what you had was a deadlock in the constitution writing. it delayed the whole constitution writing agenda. now we have a very strange situation in which the timetable for presidential elections was moved up and the constitution writing process was delayed, the formulation of the constitution. it was a very messy transition. it was highly contested. it was a work in progress. there was no consensus over the timing. >> if i could just add, the non-

muslim brotherhood members coalesced to protest what they saw was the muslim brotherhood monopolization of the writing process. you had divorce groups -- diverse groups, they all got together and said, we should take a objections to the court. it became very political. any other questions? yes. >> the of a question the questiond place finisher. normally that person and of being a key factor. -- ends up being a key factor. is that hal is going to play out? i know there is not much of a track record in voting.

how the third place supporters' votes will break. will it be an islamic bombers is islamic choice -- sila versus secular choice? >> nobody knows how the votes will break. there is a jockeying between the two top contenders who are trying to woo the votes between the three candidates who did not make it into the runoff. there is a question that i do not have the institute. to what degree do these voters -- i do not have the answer to. to what degree do these voters vote in a bloc fashion?

will followers vote as he does? that is highly questionable. one clear example of that is the vote which we did not talk about. the political leadership declared their support for a man. the independent islamist candidate. all the indications show that they did not vote as a block. it raises a question as to what degree voters really follow their leader or candidate or to the degree to which they vote independently. >> the thing that i want to focus today, that is why i am trying to explain, unfortunately, we have a short

attention span to things. a few weeks ago, it was ngo's problems with the egyptians. then we forgot the ngo's. now it is the elections. there is a political system that is allowing this person or that person to win. then we are looking to the muslim brotherhood. the establishment has been there for 60 years. the muslim brothers have been there for 80 years. the same thing we talk about liberals, i am not trying to make it complicated, it is the case. we have to see the woods, not just the trees. we talk about liberals, it is a problem raised many, many times. they think it is