>> good morning, i am dave cooke. thanks to come in for another one of our intimate gatherings. our guest is governor scott walker of wisconsin. hess we had several visits with his predecessor, thomas thompson, back when he was wisconsin's governor. scott walker was born in colorado and new to wisconsin when he was 10. he attended marquette university but left before graduating to work for the american red cross. his first experience in elective office was in the wisconsin state assembly where he served until 2002. he was elected as milwaukee's county executive. he was elected wisconsin governor in 2010. earlier this month he became the first u.s. governor to keep his seat in a recall election to the battle was triggered by his effort to restrict collective bargaining rights for public workers. that is the biographical portion of today's program.

a note about c-span's presence here today. for two years, the monster has posted video of the breakfast on our website and on the website of her video partner. the presence of cameras did not negatively impact our goal of posting a civilized, in-depth conversations. we reached out to c-span given their reputation for scrupulous, non partisan coverage. something to do not change. as always, we are on the record. no filing while the breakfast is underway. pakistan has agreed not to use video of the session for least -- c-span has agreed not to use video of the session for least two hours after the breakfast inns. if you like to ask a question, please send me a subtle,

nonthreatening signal. i will do my best call on everyone in the time we have. i will begin offering our guest the opportunity to make some opening comments and then we will go roundtable. >> i will add one more thing to your narrative. i was born in colorado springs. my father was a minister, so we moved around a lot. i also live in plainfield, iowa, population 450. my state assemblyman was a former down the way by the name of chuck grassley. -- of former down the way. i am sure you have heard of him before. then we move to the big city of about 7000 where my dad retired. instead of sausages, it was

brats the other night. we had about 400 lawmakers, spouses, and staff over at the residence and we had a wide array of brats and burgers. we did not stop -- saw all of the state's role and that once, but it was nice. a lot of lawmakers have missed the sense of collegiality. you can be passionate about the debate, but then go out and have a beer afterwards and chat about things. a lot of what we do is not partisan. by having a good working relationship, it is important. i used to tell new members i would mentor, my best advice is do not personalize your

differences because your opponent today maybe your allied tomorrow. i think it is a good start and the feedback was pretty good. the interesting thing is, in wisconsin at least, the legislature iout of session until next january. half the members of the state senate are up for election, so they are out campaigning. short of an extraordinary session which requires both houses to agree or a special session which i would have to call, the legislature can come back in next january. we can spend the summer working on things. we think there are about a half- dozen issues that we can find some agreement on that are not partisan, particularly an issue that is not uncommon to wisconsin. when i hold sessions with small businesses, i hear that they

have jobs in manufacturing but they don't have enough skilled workers. they have welding jobs, fabricating jobs, but they don't have enough employees with the skill sets to fill those jobs. you look at high school welders, the starting pay is up to $80,000 a year. so there are some tremendous opportunities there. we are working on some things that require some legislative action that are not particularly partisan. there are a lot of interesting things out there. that just gives you a summary of where we are at. >> at a breakfast hosted by bloomberg earlier this week, and

jeb bush said that his dad and ronald reagan would struggle with today's republican party, which he described as having an orthodoxy that does not allow for this agreement. how does that mesh with your sense of the party? >> i love jeb bush. he is a good friend of mine. he came on early in my campaign. i think there are a lot of lessons that governor romney and others can take from president reagan to reject president reagan 32 years ago. in 1980, part of the election was a referendum on president party on parties that had fed on president -- on president carter. there's no doubt candidate reagan may have imparted about the failures of president carter. i turned 13 today is before the election but i can still remember reagan asking are we

better off today than four years ago? reagan had a vision. remembering back 32 years ago, i can still remember limited government, lower taxes, strong national defense. as a kid i can remember that, and certainly those who were old enough to vote remember that. a referendum on the current president also vision for where we went from there. the lesson i would tell governor romney and others is that certainly have to point out and make the case as to why you need somebody new in office, but that alone is not enough. you have to have a vision, a message. something paul ryan and i have been talking about extensively. >> the washington post today reports that in your remarks at the chamber commerce yesterday, you derided what she called a false choice between cutting taxes and cutting services. you said this cannot more

mining -- you said is not more money, it is spending it more wisely. do you think it can be saltbox -- we had a visit yesterday from the head of the congressional budget office who was saying that there are no easy choices, it is still hard trade often a hard truth that people have not confronted. >> there is no doubt there needs to be some hard choices. we made some hard choices, and in the end, that paid off. a year ago, my neighbors in illinois took a shot at us saying they wanted to do what we did in wisconsin, and clearly they did not. >> our revenue choices as well. >> tax increases or a bad choice. revenue went up 46% on businesses and taxes went up 67% on individuals in illinois.

a year later there were just as bad. you have a governor down there now who is talking about closing 14 state facilities. that would lead to the layoff of thousands of state employees. in contrast, we lowered our tax burden because we knew we had to tackle economic challenges. property taxes are down for the first time in 12 years on a median value home. because we make structural changes we avoided massive layoffs and cuts in medicaid. i spend more money than any governor in west -- in wisconsin history. i added the amount amount equivalent to what illinois is cutting right now. you have to have a pro-growth agenda to increase revenues without increasing taxes. at the same time, you have to restore for reality. -- you have to restore frugality. the federal government is more

complex in terms of the severity of the problem, but you cannot just have austerity. you have to have something that stimulates true growth, not governments driven growth. >> 30 years ago, the unemployment rate was 10.8%. in november and december 1982, it was the highest in had been since the depression, higher than any point in the last 10 years. economicident reagan's recovery plan was put into effect, we saw the longest economic boom in peace time in american history. it was after slashing the marginal tax rate 25%. he put more money back and hands of the american consumer and on to ignore. it had a positive impact on growing the economy. >> [unintelligible]

>> just on the surface level, obviously boater -- voters feel better if the economy is better. republican governors who have been in place -- put in place aggressive policies that have helped turn the economy around. i was one of the beneficiaries of that. the question that voters have to look at is why in those states the economy turned around, why is that, and what will help us further improve the economy? in wisconsin, why is it before we came in the economy was sour,

we have lost over 100,000 jobs. unemployment was 9.2%. last year we turned around and saw a gain of jobs. unemployment is at 6.7%, the lowest since 2008. you have to look at that and say why is it? it is because of things we have done at the local and state level. what can you learn from this? i have said this before, but i firmly believe that if gohmert -- governor romney looks at wisconsin and thinks he can win next because we have an 'r' to our name, that is not enough to win wisconsin. if voters think is a candidate who has a clear, bold plan to take on both the economic and fiscal crisis our country faces, then he has a shot.

it was not just republicans and conservatives that got me elected. you need someone who is willing to make bold choices. >> [unintelligible] >> it depends on the state. it is an issue that governors in both parties -- there are some discerning democrats out there. it was driven by the legislature. deval patrick signed -- in rhode island you had a democratic state treasury -- state treasurer who understand if you don't fix the pension mess there is nothing left for social security. governor cuomo in new our state

is talking about some of the same thing. jerry brown may be renewed in his interest after san diego. rahm emanuel and others are taking on some of these challenges. every state, every jurisdiction differs. i don't know if there is one template, but i do think, and one of the things i said yesterday that was taken out of context, i said that public option employee benefits is eating up more and more of the budget. does not mean i think they are a bad thing. i made the comment in reference to jack markell, democrat from delaware. he said you could not sustain the kind of growth pattern out

there as well. two executives, both republican and democrat alike are going to look at this and say you can make the tough changes for the next generation and not suffer the wrath of the electorate. every state is a little bit different, but in our state you could not make those changes without reform. i tried repeatedly to avoid massive layoffs. new, young employees would come in in tears into our office begging us to make changes. we had to say, go talk to the union steward. we cannot do it arbitrarily because of the way the law is. now they can make those decisions, they are not forced down the path of making difficult choices. everyone makes choices for the

best interest of the taxpayer. >> always wondering what you think of governor scott in florida pak clearing the voter rolls. >> in terms of what rick scott is doing, i am reluctant to talk about specifics, but in wisconsin, was signed into effect was a law that said you have to have a photo id to be able to vote in the state of wisconsin. we still have same-day voter registration. the law went into effect earlier this year. in february we had our local government primary and there were problems. -- there were no problems. everybody else in our state has to use that same sort of photo id for just about everything else we do. it really was not a barrier in

the first trial test. in the next election, which was the april election, a circuit court ruled in favor of the temporary injunction that blocked the law from going into effect in between now and november 6, i would expect that it and wel rule on ticke expect it will ultimately be upheld. all requires is to show your id, your driver's license or your state issued id card. they show it and sign off on the poll list and away you go to vote. it really has not been a problem, at least when it was tried in february. " i would expect that eventually will be upheld and i don't think it will be a problem in november.

>> is there anything you would have done differently [unintelligible] what do you think the impact in november will be from the divided electorate? >> in terms of things i would do differently, absolutely. anytime you make major decisions in a profession, whether in business or in life, you go back and do live introspection on it. i looked back on the past year and a five came in in january or february, instead of just moving quickly to fix things, if i had spent more time explaining the problem, if i had said to people in my state, most school districts in wisconsin have to buy their health insurance from just one company and that costs school districts tens of millions of dollars more than it has to, i think they would have said fix it.

if i said in collective bargaining, there are abuses, most voters would have said fix it. i was so eager to fix it, i fixed it and did not talk about it. most politicians talk about it and never fix it. in the future, what have learned is, you have to do both. you have to talk about it, get people to understand a problem, but don't use that as an excuse not to ultimately fix things. to a certain extent, people are just happy to be able to watch tv again and not be bombarded, before the u.s. senate primary comes up in a month. we are not only a swing state, we have an open u.s. senate seat and to relatively close house seats. so it will be back again shortly.

initially, a lot of what came and was against me last spring. by the end it was almost equally balanced between outside interest. a lot of that money has moved on to ohio and florida and a lot of other places, or has become more dispersed. there are ways to move on. it does not mean we will never have any battles in the state, but a lot of the intensity, the scrutiny from outside of wisconsin heightened that. this is not unique just to me. this is the closest blue state in america. 2.5 million votes cast and only a few thousand was the difference between the two. we are a microcosm of america. we have urban, suburban, and rural areas. 2008 was an anomaly, but in 2000

and 2004 and i would imagine 2012, it will be very close. >> [unintelligible] >> the recall slowed what could have otherwise been a process going down that path. all four of the candidates are not campaigning, but they spent most of their time talking about it the need to help -- it has been a unifying factor. between now and august will they start to distinguish themselves? i think so. it allows me to play referee and, candidates if they are stretching the truth about the views of other candidates. i am excited. homert just say that as a

from wisconsin beer is probably the most impressive primary cycle if not one the most aggressive ever. you have tommy thompson, one of the most beloved former governors in the state of wisconsin, you have mark neumann, a former member of the house who almost beat russ feingold back in 1998, you have the speaker of the assembly who was at the forefront of helping push a reforms through and did very well among the grass roots as a convention, and the business person is trying to replicate some of what ron washington -- what ron johnson did four years ago. if anything, it is good that the winner that comes out of that election will be that much stronger. whoever is the winner will fit very nicely right into it.

>> [unintelligible] what are some things he should speak out more strongly about, and if he is going to win wisconsin, he will have to get some of those people who voted for obama last time. what is the best way to do that? >> i had voters who would come up to me and say i voted for your opponent four years ago, but i am voting for you. i had a guy the other day in oshkosh to said i am a democrat and my parents are democrats, but we voted for you. it of -- voters would tell me those stories and with that i appreciate the fact that you had the courage to take on the tough fiscal and economic issues facing your state. politics is the only profession

where you were called courageous simply by doing the work. i think there is respect in wisconsin for paul ryan even among people who don't necessarily agree with everything he says. they respect the fact that he has put a plan to talk about those things. i think we faced both an economic and fiscal crisis, not even just talking about it. you have to narrow it down to a very simple set of messages that in body of a larger plan that he has. is one where people have to walk away saying is not just a referendum on president obama. i don't think i am better off than i was four years ago. i don't think the federal

government is controlling its fiscal house, and i believe that candidate romney has a plan that i can believe in. 32 years ago i remember seeing that people did not like what president carter was doing. president reagan said a recession is when your neighbor does not have a job. a depression is when you don't have a job. recovery is when jimmy carter doesn't have a job. you could also reside exactly what you thought reagan was going to do when he got into office. i think romney has to have a simple message of not only why we need to replace the current occupant in the white house, but also why he would be better.

>> saying the governors are selling the idea that things are better. do you find a disconnect in that message? does it trouble you? >> i run into employers must a who liked the things we are doing and some of the things are state agencies have done to be more customer friendly, and then turn around and say where we get hung up is with the 88 or some other federal agency. -- with the epa or some other federal agency. small businesses are concerned about the affordable care act wherein some action from the supreme court to get a handle on what may or may not happen with health care in this country. for a lot of small businesses, it is absolutely true. it is not just the policy

implications, it is the great uncertainty of not knowing what is going to happen under the affordable care act. >> [unintelligible] you can see the union people out there, the solidarity singers on the steps of the capital of. i hope they are gone, by the way. people with an infantry doing things, and there was nothing that evident for you in terms of turning voters out. how could you turn out those voters? >> i always said, and the primary was a good example of this, a lot of people, voters who would be sympathetic to me who said i don't need a bull horn or protests i, i just need an opportunity to cast a vote. i had a primary that was

literally an uncontested primary. greg gilbert wrote a great series of things about the numbers and how remarkable it was. in my primary, i got as many votes as the top two democrats did combined. that said to me that there were brokers who, even though they knew it did not mean anything in terms of the primary, were not going to wait until june 6. they were coming out in may barrett there is already that pent-up feeling, just because the issues were so clear. unlike most elections word is personality, this was pretty clear cut. you could put in tens of millions of dollars more on both sides and it probably would not have had any impact. voters knew where they stood on the issues.

we had victory offices all around the state where before the election, we had identified 5.7 million people, we had made four million voter contacts through volunteers in victory offices, state parties put together, and had a tremendous impact. we found people, not just republicans or conservatives, people like i mentioned before, independence and even a few democrats who liked the bold action we took. we found them and make sure they went to the polls. >> an overhaul of the pension system [unintelligible] >> we are not going through that hole right to work battle again.

i have had great support because my predecessor rated more than a billion dollars of the state transportation fund -- raided more than a billion dollars out of the state transportation funds. unions like the fact that we made a new commitment to affordable and reliable sources of power in our state. many of the skilled trades unions are working with me trying to streamline the process. the reason i tackle collective bargaining was not because of unions. i knew for eight years that in a state where 60% of the total budget is aid to local governments, i could not reach my objection of no cuts in things like medicaid unless i changed the dynamics in terms of states relationships with

local government. if i was going to reduce the amount that went to local governments, also had to give them the tools they needed to offset that which they can. they netted $5 million after budget reductions because of our reforms. the good news is, we talk about working together with democrats, it is not as hard as it sounds. things we are going to work on, getting more people into skilled trades, educator effectiveness, school district accountability and things like that, or things i have been working with democrats on for the last nine or 10 months and we are finally getting to the permission of those efforts. a lot of things we are working on are not republican or democrat, they are just wisconsin things.

>> we have about 25 minutes left. >> if it is very negative, would you consider getting in, and do you think the nominee is ultimately the favorite going into the general election? >> it is easiest to referee when you are not aligned with one of the candidates. i would certainly call them out they are out of line. in wisconsin, the reason i would be more inclined to stay as a referee is because i think it is a tremendous chance for republicans to win, because of the quality of any of the four republicans running. i think there is probably a pretty strong contrast.

i like the congress, and personally, but our policies are some of the most liberal in the country. i think they would be horribly out of line with the majority of the people of the state of wisconsin. any of those for coming out of that primary or in a positive position to be able to win. >> [unintelligible] other than coming up with a pithy slogan like ronald reagan, does he need to be more specific on what he would cut? what exactly are you not hearing from romney that you think voters need to hear? >> having a plan, not just an economic plan, but on what he would do budgetary, and talking about that.

it does not have the be9-9-9 or something like that from the other candidates, but boaters need to hear him repetitively talking about it and having a strong belief that he is going to deliver on it. voters have become so cynical about politics, not just about candidates making promises and not delivering on them, but more importantly, about canted it's getting into office and then not having the willingness to take on the tough issues. part of it is convincing voters that i have a plan and i am committed to enacting it. >> you had a big financial advantage over your opponent. what did it get you? >> you have to look at the big picture.

you go all the way back to last february, both the state and national union supported attacking me when the reforms were up. they spent millions in the state supreme court attacking me, then they spend tens of women's of dollars on the senate recall election and the recall petition process, i don't have the exact numbers but if you look at all the money spent against me and for me, it is kind of vague wash. unions come outside groups, what is allowed us to do is, our numbers were way down last year and the only voices out there were the voices attacking me. by the end of the year, when i had adds up -- i was a public school teacher in high school and i had a school board member and a small business person on air saying i saw these reforms

last year and i was scared. i thought my job would go away or my class size would get bigger. i was wrong, it was just the opposite. now our class sizes are better than they were last year. when i hear small business owners thing i was scared about the economy, and now it is better because of what the governor has done, it allowed me to get out a message where a lot of voters in a very independent state, and gave them a chance to say i have heard why people don't like you. now i want to hear somebody make the case for you. it made the case to obviously the majority of voters out there. >> [unintelligible] do you briard disagree about the orthodoxy of the party, whether president reagan would

be accepted in today's republican party? is he right or wrong? specifically, how would you answer the question in the debate about whether you except the10 to 1 tax increase deal? >> i just don't believe the problem in government is that we don't tax enough. control that we don't are spending enough, we don't use our resources appropriately. one of the big things missing in that equation, i think there is a false choice out there between raising taxes or cutting services. nowhere else in life do you say you are going to double the price of the product or cut in half. you have to find a way to balance things out.

a great example of how public education -- we have two sons, one just graduated and want will be a senior high school. either pay higher property taxes or don't live up to the standards we all want. even while we taxes in check, they went down statewide, we still were allowed to allow more resources in our classrooms. under a -- money under collective bargaining in the past would go to one healthcare company. let's put in tens of million dollars back in the classroom. i think it has to be true at the federal government level as well. there is a false choice between either raising taxes or cutting

services. more needs to be done to instill greater formality in the federal government, but to stimulate true growth through things that actually stimulate the economy. our country faces an economic and fiscal crisis. to handle the fiscal crisis, it does not make sense to make the economic crisis worse. raising taxes in an economy like this would make the economy worse, not better. jeb bush is a very good friend of mine. i think there is a large cross section within the republican party. i do not think it is monolithic. in terms of the economy, there is a ceiling. it is pretty clear cut. that goes beyond republicans.

a lot of people in my state appreciate that once and for all, somebody stood up and set in front of la -- a handful local interests, the hard- working taxpayer should be standing up. people want elected officials to stand up and think about them. >> you are not about raising taxes in any economy. >> i think it is even worse now. you could not pick a worse time to talk about raising taxes. >> [unintelligible] cue mention paul ryan. [unintelligible] >> paul ryan is a cheesehead

like me. as an executive, he -- one of most important things and more of the most important test to see if someone is ready to be president, it is picking someone who can actually help the government. you believe the fiscal crisis is one of our top challenges, i don't know anyone in this town who is better equipped to help do that. he understands the dynamics. he has incredible respect from both sides of the aisle. there are fears in this city he don't respect the fact that he is committed to his position and he understands the budget. far beyond just been that he is from wisconsin. it goes against my natural instinct to put on an executive, but that is where i would make an executive. chris christie, bobby jindal,

bob mcdonnell, any of those people. i am very confident well groomed governors would be a great match if your looking for somebody other than congressman ryan. >> a lot of people said they would support obama if they voted for you. the think his actions on the campaign trail help to creston or >> i don't know. i found it odd that two years ago he came in for my opponent. i don't often helped or hindered me as much as i presume it was calculated on his or gigot -- calculated on their part. they did not want to be attached to this date. it is not like they are calling me up and talking about it. there are a lot of disappointed democrats in the state.

i don't know if that leads to them backing off to their commitment to the president are not but i hear wisconsin raise a lot of frustration in the last week that the president was not more involved. the folks who came to see them were induced, but because -- i fulfilled a promise i made to a group of fourth grade kids could they came over in visited me in the governor's residence and i took questions and i thought it would be like, what is it like to live in the schoolhouse? >> the question was, how did you win by more than 200,000 votes than you did the last time? this was from a fourth grader. everybody in our state knew what was going on. most voters knew what was going on and were enthused one way or the other. in terms of winning the state,

remember that the exit polls showed me 50-50, and i won by seven points. be careful what you read into the exit polls. another poll yesterday said romney was up in wisconsin. the governor said the only poll that matter in wisconsin are the ones that vote in the south side of milwaukee. there is a lot of truth to that. our state is going to flip back and forth from now until november. i just go back to what i said before. i think that if romney is going to have a shot in our state, he cannot win just republican votes. he has to be viewed as a reformer, somebody who is going to make life better and get our state and country back on track again. he has a shot, but he has to

build off it. >> back to the affordable care act, are there any elements of that act that you support and would want to see retain toccata? secondly, if it is thrown out, do you have any plans for improving upon the health care system here in wisconsin to expand affordable care to those who do not have it? >> in our state, we are one of the highest coverage states in the country in terms of people who have private insurance or some sort of coverage to medicaid related programs. i secretary, dennis smith, pointed out last year that for the majority of people in my state, they pay a higher amount for less coverage than they had before. overall it is and net loser for us in terms of what it means for

the people of our state. if the holding was thrown out or overturned, i don't think we can go back to just having nothing. the decision should be made at the state and local level. families and individuals should be driving decisions about health care. one of the best things we can do is get a more transparent health care system. if you have a heart attack, you are not going to go out and shop around. most of us don't use the emergency services, we use elective procedures, and you can shop around for that. whether it is changing in making sure there is a greater amount transparency in pricing, so that we know what we are getting, i think those things are important. not just to change health care costs, it can change behavior is regarding help.

in the long term, there are only two ways of reducing health-care costs. eventually you get to rationing or you get people as consumers playing a more active role and acting to control their health and wellness decisions. that is more of a market driven solution that works. it is difficult right now to be truly market-driven because most consumers, either individuals or employers, don't really have a total understanding of what the costs are because it is not transparent. that is where the state can have our role in terms of ensuring transparency in health care pricing. if you look at one particular procedure, corrective eye surgery, years ago, only the super wealthy could do that. it was out of the range for most of us in the middle class.

today, it is not. today you could save up for it and is reasonable for most people if they want to get corrected by surgery. the folks who did those procedures realize i can do a handful at this price, or i can do high-volume at this price. hopefully you don't have somebody doing cheap ones, two for 50 bucks. you have to have a quality as well. that is where it ought to be affordable for the average person out there. people can look at the price and measure the quality. the frustrating thing with health care is, everybody has their cell phone. all of us probably know more about our cellphone plan that we do about the health care plan, right? i have to make teenagers, so i know i have to have a plan that has unlimited texting, or i am

in the poorhouse. yet how many people have i said, tell me how much it really cost for that test you had last week at the doctor's office. how many people could tell you that? in health care, we just blindly take what ever, because our plan covers it or something else covers it. the more people actually know, the more people have scan in the game, the more we will make prudent and wise decisions about health care. >> any elements of the affordable health care act that you like? >> i think things that allow you to go over state lines are important. there are certain things in terms of guaranteed issue and things of that nature. i just don't think you need the federal government to give us those things.

>> can you have guaranteed issue without a mandate? >> certainly not a federal mandate. those are things you can have a discussion at the state level. >> if it was upheld, the go forward with the exchanges or do you wait for the next election [unintelligible] >> i think most of us are going to wait. it does not make sense to have your state go through things. one of the first things i did after calling a special session was authorize our attorney general to join the suit. the 10th amendment is pretty clear. i don't read anywhere in the constitution that the funds the federal government can mandate health insurance on me and my family. on that alone, our state is engaged in that because we think those decisions should be made at the state and local level.

if the court did not act, and next phase is in the fall, what happens in the presidential and the u.s. senate races. after that, if it still remained intact, we would have to look at it. for practical reasons, i don't like the idea of the federal government mandating to me and my family and any other family in america what we do with health insurance. beyond a matter of principle, it frustrates me that at the time, more governors did not raise concern about this because this is a fundamental tenet of federalism. if you can mandate health care at the federal level, you can mandate anything on the state, and that is not what our founders envisioned. you might as well strike out the 10th amendment if you are going to give them the process

that allows it. >> in relation to your comments about governor romney, what do you think about the president's economic record and what the people of wisconsin think about his record? isn't as negative as some is to party, -- as some in your party think, in terms of stimulus, 23 months of job creation, that make you concerned that romney come up with more about his plan? >> the auto bailout, ask the people in kenosha what they think about it. they still do not have a plant in kenosha. it is pretty clear what they think about that. there may be a case to be made in michigan, but it is certainly not the case in wisconsin. most of the stimulus that was spent in wisconsin was spent on bailing out the state government

a couple of years ago. if the president and others want to take credit for the stimulus, i say what did it get you? a temporary reprieve from making tough decisions a couple of years ago, and it stuck us with a bigger budget deficit when i started a couple of years ago in january. whether you agreed or disagreed, most people of the stimulus was to build roads and bridges and freight rail lines. burial was spent on any of those things. it was spent on bailing out state and local governments -- very little was spent on any of those things. we were left to clean up the mess. a lot of voters get that very clearly in our state. it is precisely why a lot of voters, including some democrats, appreciate our willingness to take on those tough decisions. it can only kick the can so far

down the road. >> we have about four minutes left. >> [unintelligible] would you agree with that assessment that they have the same sort of influence that they had before? >> i have gotten a lot of commentaries on our victory that overstated, that it had no impact or was all about money, and that is completely wrong. there are people on the right who think this means every republican is going to win and that you can apply in every state and jurisdiction. the truth is somewhere in between there. i think the biggest thing i saw , and i don't know what the future is in other states, but the sentiment was, and i saw it

as a county official for eight years, that many of the big government union leaders thought that no one would ever dare make the kind of changes we did, and if they did, they were quick to say they would punish us, they would send out the message, don't mess with any of these changes. it went back to traditional tactics. a week or two after we introduced the budget bill, the buses and plane started coming in from washington and new york and las vegas and elsewhere. it was not like i am hyping this up. you can see the banners, the suns, the trucks and everything else that came in. i think they thought if they bring in enough bodies, it would intimidate us. you could hear the protesters

out there. i said i heard them, and they have every right to be there. that is what is great about america. but tens of thousands of protesters have a right to be heard, but so do the 5.7 million people in my state who are taxpayers, the majority of whom voted for me in the last election to do what i am doing. in the past, those tactics work, they intimidated local government officials into not daring to make the tough decisions. crew out the process, it shows that we dared to make the tough decisions, we dare to think more about the next generation than just the next election. in doing so, i think we open the door for road state and local government leaders -- for both state and local governments to say we can consider making these

changes and realize that if we do, those that they thought would take us out before did not do it. >> [unintelligible] >> my main interest is in governing. i think the bullying tactics that work before just not going to work. the other difference in our state is, given the choice, a lot of workers ought not to be in the unions. that is a choice of the workers themselves, the teachers themselves, whether they want to be in the union or not. they say we are fine on our own. we don't need someone to advocate for us. >> we want to thank you for that.

tomorrow's guest is former governor, haley barbour. we hope you'll come back. thank you so much. we appreciate it. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] asks core education secretary william bennett discusses the issues in the 2012 presidential campaign. brandywine garden, president of the american federation of teachers, talks about the role occur of teachers following the

unsuccessful recall of governor scott walker. john mitchell, nixon, and water bed. "washington journal," live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> watergate was not a caper. it was about the fundamental attempt by the president of the united states to misuse and abuse the constitution, obstruct justice, and to try to undermine peace electoral process. texted has been 40 years since the watergate break-in. >> if you really look at it, they read or tampered with everyone's vote by saying this was not just something done, it was not just dirty tricks, it was a strategic plan aimed at