numbers from the presidential campaign. the final hour, a look at russia's role in syria. all that plus your calls, to become an e-mails. "washington journal" is next. host: but for the announcement of a compromise on freezing student loan rates. there is a possibility of a vote to hold u.s. attorney-general eric holder in contempt over the justice department's failure to turn over documents related to the gunrunning operation known as fast and furious.

she is an -- their two key issues, immigration and health care. this is sunday, june 24. there is a view of capitol hill with foreigner 35 seats on the ballot in november as well as a third of the senate and the president up for reelection. we want to focus on how much money is being spent in this campaign cycle. our phone lines are open. your comments from senator john mccain say money is corrupting american politics. during the conversation i call a set 202-737-0002, republicans. 202-737-0001, democrats. 202-628-0205, independents. join us on facebook, twitter, or send us an e-mail -- journal@c- span.org. a couple of headlines from "the washington post." the interview john mccain did .it

money is influencing u.s. election sneaking through the superpacs. host: on the issue of money in politics, here is with judy woodruff said on the news hour. [video clip] >> to some of your money as not

having an effect on elections flies in the face of reality. i just wish one of them have run for county sheriff. one of the five supreme court justices that voted to invalidate what we know of as mccain fine gold. i guarantee you that there will be scandals. there is too much money being thrown around and it will take scandals and then maybe we can have the supreme court revisit this issue. the supreme court wrote -- rules on constitutionality. passing another law does not get it. am afraid we are in for a very interesting time in american politics. we all talk about how much money is in the presidential campaign. suppose there is a senate campaign in a small state and 10

people decided to contribute to an million dollars each. you think that would not affect the campaign? host: john mccain on the news hour earlier this month. here is a story -- a point south the consuming hunt for donors have led the president to campaign overseas. the president is tapping the network of american citizens living outside of the 50 states more than any other campaign before as he tries to raise about $4.5 million. his overseas power includes london. this is legal. the donors are citizens to pay u.s. taxes. "obama attacks overseas donor pool." mccain saying it is corrupting politics. tell us what you think. bob is on the phone from minnesota. our line for democrats. welcome. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call.

i think that senator mccain is right that money will corrupt politics to a point where we will not have any fairness in government any more. we still sits in front of our televisions and let the influence telesat to vote. one way we could at least help the sick to asian is to stop using television as a source of how we get our information and how we should vote. thank you. >> thank you for the call. we go to glen in missouri. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to make a statement. why don't the american people wake up and get all of the corrupt people out of congress and senate? get those people in there who understand how we have to live.

host: thank you. from our twitter page -- host: we will get to that in just a moment. "the washington post" has a lengthy piece on judy woodruff's interview with john mccain. allison is on the phone from atlanta. good morning. caller: the morning. -- good morning. i have been calling to say that our congress is bought from wall street. they are sitting in the highest seat over our federal treasury, making decisions over what happens with our tax dollars.

they have come american wall street industry out of money. look at the way the election is running. all of these politicians in the republican party are not even real politicians. there are bought and paid for by koch.h andan the lobbyists are paid money to sway voters. are you kidding? john mccain slipped through the last few years. give me a break. host: thank you. gary burley from hawaii. good morning. caller: how many years has it been this way? we're just now realizing it? host: is is the first presidential cycle where the assistant united case is far and center.

caller: i understand that. we always pushing it to the republicans. that is where the money is coming from. it has always been this way. host: thank you. on our twitter page -- host: the person keeping track of the schedule with great detail warning that the president is held -- has held 160 campaign fund-raisers. double what george w. bush had in 2004 when he was running for reelection. "the washington post" -- there is a photograph of karl rove. he is one of the individuals behind american gps. democrats are spectrum --

stepping up nonprofit groups to the ball to their largest donors. part of a debate over the disclosure rules but host: this story pointed out democrats wrapping up calls for tax-exempt groups to revealed sending -- funding sources. mary is on the phone from florida. independent callers. good morning. caller: good morning. my personal opinion is i believe they need to put a cap on the nominations and put a cap on how

much they can contribute to campaigns so each elected official from the senate to the house to the presidency -- that is the only way you'll get the money out of politics in this election. host: we have had that until 20081 barack obama opted against accepting funds. he was able to raise a lot of money within the guidelines of the sec. also able to out to raise its adults been john mccain. thing ining the same 20 tell. >> caller: make a cap on state by state, regardless of how much money that is raised. the amount of money is unbelievable. host: when critics say that is limiting first amendment rights, how do you respond? caller: corporations cannot

vote. it is the same thing as immigration where you sit this person has rights but they are not a citizen. it is the back-and-forth argument. too much money for corporations. $700 million. you have the issue of where is the money coming from? outside, of foreign interference with our politics? you don't know where the money is coming from. host: mitt romney made a reference to corporations are people. we will hear from him in a moment. if you are listening on the radio, we are focusing on the issue of money in politics. the recent comments of senator john mccain say money is corrupting american politics. weary from tennessee. democrat. welcome to the program. caller: yes, sir. if the rest of the world refers to us as the great satan and they finance our elections, do

you think they will do something to enhance our image or to kind of this story it? all of these republican women, would they take a sperm donor for their next daddy kn ng its race?owi i hope the next supreme court reverses citizens united. host: thank you. on twitter -- another story, a lengthy piece as a team of congressional reporters from "the washington post" has this headline --

host: and they need some specific members involved in this investigation. the front page stories available online . host: next is bill from texas. republican line.

good morning to you. caller: yes, if the romney ticket is to win, they must get the women's votes. none of the potentials will compel the women's boat. -- vote. most of them are romney lookalikes. their governors. have served in politics. some of them lack private sector experience. none of them have the international affairs savvy like condoleezza rice. she does not want to run for vice president. the who is left? nobody. this might sound kind of crazy

but i think that if they could get hillary clinton to jump parties, which has president edence, they could have the international experience on the ticket. host: thank you . off topic but relevant to the campaign cycle. here is a piece on the vice presidential hopefuls. here is marco rubio, one of those being mentioned as a potential running mate. he is among those on hand in utah for the event with romney staffers. q @cspanwj" tonight

at 8. host: the president was asked by matt lauer on a super bowl preview program earlier this year about the influence of money in politics and the fundraisers the president has been attending. this is courtesy of nbc news. [video clip] >> the idea is to connect to the middle class and have them reach out to a political candidate. you raised $900,000 in a couple of hours. 25 individuals paid $36,000 apiece. how do you think the guy sitting drinking a beer and eating chips watching the game today can identify with something like this? >> if you noticed a month and a

half ago, i had lunch with five folks who gave $25 each. it is precisely because we have been able to create a grass- roots movement that i was successful in 2008 hands i think we will be successful this time. if you asked me if i would love to take some of the big money out of politics? i would. unfortunately, partly because of supreme court rulings and decisions out there, it is hard to get your message out without having some resources. host: that interview with matt lauer just before the super bowl on the fund-raisers. just some of the many the president has been holding. the campaign is expected to raise close to $1 billion. an equal amount for romney. plus outside influence. one account indicating this

campaign cycle could cost a total of $3 billion when you take all of the races, outside money, party spending, and other fund-raising by various political organizations. some of that taking place this weekend with the romney campaign meeting with its top funders, $50,000 to $100,000. thank you for being with us. tell us what is going on this weekend. who is in attendance? what are you learning? guest: let me talk about mitt romney's 700 best friends, his policy experts. republican bigwigs. jeb bush. karl rove. paul ryan. the list goes on and on. they're doing their strategy session ends at the swanky

resorts. they're going to offer suggestions on what they think the campaign can do and what romney would look like. host: you mentioned karl rove, head of one of the people behind american crossroads. we have learned through mitt romney that there is a very clear line between what his campaign is doing in these outside interest groups. is there anything illegal for karl rove or others? guest: that is long as there are meetings laying out how they are going to work together. just as long as they are talking -- that is fine as long as they're not coordinating together. host: about michael leavitt? he is involved in the

transition. mary beth miers -- beth miers is searching for a running mate. some key members of congress including running mates. guest: michael leavitt is there. he has been on capitol hill. that miers was spotted drinking a glass of wine and talking to a bunch of the donors. of course, we have a ton of people who are on the short list. rob portman. tim pawlenty. paul ryan. one of the people who is not there is marco rubio. he said he has been on the road too much and does not like to spend 15 days away from his kids, which is an interesting answer after last week's speculation that he may not actually be there.

host: that was something inside the "washington post." there seems to be a rehearsal process that has made these candidates potential running mates. guest: we do not really know who they are really looking man. they want to keep that list going long so speculation is out there for a while. they do not want to narrow it down to any one person. they want to surprise people. i think romney and beth miers are the only ones who really know what is going on. host: is it unusual for a presumptive nominee to of this kind of meeting with his 700 top donors and fundraisers? guest: this has been done in

campaigns before. jim baker was talking yesterday about how they did this with other campaigns before. the thing that is different is how big this one is and how they have got everyone together. it has a large gathering. a swanky gathering . unusual. usually it is more of a low-key event. host: what you think karl rove is telling voters? guest: i am sure he is telling them that we have a chance to actually win this thing. this is not us trying to -- we are actually doing well in the polls. we need more help. host: tom burr, thank you for joining us on this sunday morning. back to your calls and your tweets. on twitter --

host: your calls and comments about senator mccain's comments that money is corrupting politics. springfield, illinois . independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. a couple callers asked where the money is coming from. where is the money going? are they supposed to disclose where all of this money goes? it just seems like the more money that is introduced, the more the system becomes corrupt. thank you for c-span. host: thank you. joe biden will be campaigning in iowa tuesday and wednesday . one of the key battleground states in campaign 2012. john is on the phone from chantilly, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span.

john mccain is a hypocrite. i think he should put everybody who pays him first to let us know what they get out of that money. number two, i think we have to realize that it is the supreme court who destroyed america. they are the ones who have said that -- [unintelligible] there is no anyone could pay $100 million in one check. an average american can pay $25. any time that someone gives you something, they expect something from you. host: thank you . we will come back to the in a moment. here is some other news. "senate leader striking a deal to free student loan interest rates." they have affectively it reached an agreement that would freeze those student loan interest rates at 3.4% for one-year.

this is according to staffers who briefed "the national journal became there is one aide saying there is a deal being finalized right now. they are -- an official announcement is expected tomorrow or tuesday. many are referred to the comment mitt romney made. we carried it live in des moines, iowa. the campaign and the iowa state fair. this is part of what he had to say. [video clip] >> we have to make sure that the promises we make in medicaid and medicare are those we can keep. there are various ways of doing that. one is to raise taxes on people. that is not the way -- corporations are people. we can -- of course they are. everything corporations during go to people. where do you think it goes? [yelling]

host: the comments that continue to come up in this campaign, corporations been people. he made that comment in iowa. a related story of the "l.a. times." to the board after the caucuses, the state could help decide the presidency. joe biden back in iowa this week . back to your calls. florida. good morning. democrats' line. caller: the supreme court handed corporations unlimited power with citizens united. corporations are not people. they do not breach. they do not feel. they did not have a conscience. their only purpose is to get richer and richer while we the people get poorer and poorer. the same corporations that will not spend a dime on creating jobs for americans will not spend $1 billion to the republicans in the white house and congress -- republicans will

give them everything they want. it will get the entire gold mine and we will get the shaft. host: thank you your virginia. battleground virginia this - morning. one of nine or 12 that could determine who was elected. david axelrod talks about the battleground states and the role of media in campaign 2012 and a look inside the obama campaign operations in chicago. watch that tonight at 6:30 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. that is available online at c- span.org. back to your tweets -- host: we are talking about the issue in money in politics. senator mccain telling judy woodruff that is corrupting american politics. new york city be good morning.

independent line. caller: good morning. i agree with the last two callers that the supreme court corrupted the politicians. they are a trump card for the republican party. anytime there is a discrepancy in money, the supreme court has given the republicans what they need to purchase whoever they want. i think it is time that we made the u.s. supreme court term limits. thank you. host: thank you. this is from flint, michigan. republican line. what is your thought on this issue? caller: welcome at thank you for having me on. -- well, i would like to have

thank you. money has a correctable. the love of money is the road of evil. we are at a crossroads here. corporations are funded by the bondholders and shareholders, which say you investor money in the market for these corporations and these people are expecting the return on their dollar. maybe mr. romney spoke. maybe this sounds disturbing to people. it is hard to think of a person of his wealth that can relate to people. i am in michigan where obama says he saved the auto industry. if you came here to see the city, where gm was started, which helped build the country, you'll see that destitution and hopelessness of the people that live here. ok?

if they saved gm, i would like to have my job back at the lake. there is no you hear any more. they have shipped 800 to be $6 of michigan taxpayers to build -- $856 million of yes, money does corrupt. we stand behind a man, romney. he may not be the best choice, but he is a choice. host: thanks for the call and comment. michigan also one of those key states for the romney campaign and the president. mitt romney campaigning there as part of his six state bus tour that we covered on c-span. on our twitter page, this tweet -- back on this interview where

senator mccape took a shot at someone. >> this question of campaign money highlighted today by this announcement there's a huge amount of money coming in from one donor in the state of nevada? >> gave laverage amounts of money to the gingritch campaign and much of the casino profits that come to him come from a casino. >> which says what? >> obviously maybe in a round about way foreign money is coming into political campaigns. >> because of the profits that the casinos -- >> it is a great deal of money. and again we need a level playing field and we need to go back to the realization that teddy roosevelt had. that we have to have a limit on the flow of money, and that corporations are not people.

that's why we have different laws to govern corporations than govern individual citizens. and so to say that corporations are people, again, flies in face of all the traditional supreme court decisions that we have made that have been made in the past. host: this morning "the new york times", one man cannot stand enough to ensure but he can buy enough ads to help push a candidate over the top in a close lies like this year. what he real he fears the

related paper on what sheldon adelson wants, the comments on john mccain, jim hines as this point. he says people who hate money so much should not cares who pocket it goes into. brenda is on the phone from cleveland, ohio. good morning. democrats line. caller: good morning, steve. what you can do when you see these ads is something you care about, something you're interested in, you're going to have to get small research groups. we started with just four and we're up to 32 now. we get together a couple of times a month. we get the question down. everybody goes and researches it or we delegate it to our children or our grandchildren. then we get back together with the facts. that's the only chance we're going to have in finding out what the truth is. and what i'm really concerned

about is our presidential candidate mitt romney who is heavily invested in china getting money from china. if he's heavily invested in china and we have these tar rich issues, these jobs issues, you know? i don't know if he's going to be making policy for the american people or policy for the pockets of the 1%. if you want to know where the money comes from, we went from $123,000 median to $77,000 from 2007 until what was it? like 2009. that was 40% of the income that mittle america lost. that's the money they're campaigning with, because when they deregulate it, they weren't breaking the law when they were taking advantage of us. that's what the deregulation is all about. so they can take advantage of us, with impugnity. host: brenda, thanks for the call from cleveland.

one viewer shaying it is sheldon adelson's own money and he should be able to donate it to the cause of his choice. one cover story, a keen eye on what's happening with the euro. getting closer, europe may be in a financial mess but u.s. companies see an opportunity and want washington to tighten the ties. and the annual summer reading list is out this week for the weekly standard with bill crystal as the editor of that publication. ed is on the phone from michigan. good morning to you, welcome to the program. caller: good morning, steve. can you hear me? host: sure can, good morning. caller: good morning. senator mccain talking about money is like the pot calling the kettle black. do you remember the keeting trial? host: sure do, early 1990's. caller: his family has a long history of corruption. his father covered up the attack on the lyndon johnson and soon

after he got command of the fleet. the corruption by corporations in america is just decimating and has decimated the middle class here. i think it's a travesty that has occurred. thank you. host: thanks for the call. from one viewer saying politics is a corrupt system, money is the great for the wheels of politics to function. mccain is the biden of the republicans. a passing we want to note this morning, leslie brown passed away at the age of 64. you may not remember the name but you certainly remember if you're old enough, she was the mother of the world's first test tube baby. there's a photograph of her after her child was born. louise brown, robert and leslie brown are pictured there. a 2008 photograph. leslie brown, the mother of the world's first test tube baby,

louise brown was born in 1978, passed away on june 6, she was 64. one of the notes of the "new york times" is the portrait hanging inside the state capitol from the presidents who served from 1983 until the early 1990's. the ex governor reluctantly did not want the photograph. mario cuomo who's son -- father of the current governor. andrew cuomo presented it to his father as a birthday gift at a party that including many former staffers. a quote from harold holder saying -- he didn't ask for the picture, he didn't want the

portrait but it now hangs in albany, new york. kathleen from riverside, ohio. good morning to you. caller: hey, good morning and thank you for c-span. the first absurd thing is karl rove is still polluting our politics. there's others as well. but it's so absurd with him, this guy belongs in prison in an orange jump suit. and behind bars for his participation in the outing of the other toucher agent valerie blame. absurd this criminal is out there polluting or election. but i want to say senator mccain, he's honest enough to come out and say this. he should lead the way for a institutional amendment to take money out. you know, it is going to take a institutional amendment. a lot of the experts are saying that. so i think senator mccain leads the way. and i want to encourage the viewers, you know. it's great we all call c-span but we all need to pressure our

reps to do a institutional amendment, which in some ways they would be fighting against their own campaigns because they get money for them. and such a corrupt loop there. but we still need to really be pushing for this institutional amendment the way dylan raddick from msnbc is. i know there are other groups as well across the nation who are pushing for this constitutional amendment. i hope peeple call the reps and i hope senator mccain pushes for the amendment. host: thanks for the call. on the republican line, next is tracy from minneapolis. caller: good morning. i'm a republican and i find john mccain extremely hypocritical. i mean, he says that he's going to end up supporting romney in the long run and probably cheer lead for him. he always says one thing and then he does another.

he doesn't seem to have any problem when it comes to using taxpayer money to corrupt dictators in the middle east, or in south america. i just think that he's part of the problem. i don't get the difference between either party right now to be honest with you. host: it is a busy week in washington. the house and senate both in session. and all eyes on the u.s. supreme court. related stories found this morning inside "washington post" and "new york times." putting on a brave face, preparing for heart break on heth care. if he uses the law and re-election, many will conclude that he, the president, had bn on his major reform and the supreme court defeated it. then he lost his hold on the presidency, that's a quote, from robert dallek.

then there's this related story. you can keep an eye on c-span networks related to immigration, health care or other final rulings before they take their summer break. independent line, good morning. caller: good morning. am i on? host: sure, go ahead. caller: yes, i wanted to say i'm an independent, and i hope that all independents will vote for democrats. but not only for the president, but for the members of

parliament. if we're going to tell the government to vote for -- i'm 88 years old so i have a hard time remembering words. host: that's ok, sure. you sound great for 88. so please continue. caller: i was trying to find out how is it possible to get people to vote for congressmen that are democrats instead of the republicans. if we don't vote the republicans back in large numbers, we have a chance to be able to change the constitution because i'm sure obama would do that. that's the first thing he would do. host: as long as you're a registered voter in this country, you can vote democrat, republican or independent. the rules normally apply whether it's an open or closed primary

and they vary state by state. caller: i know. host: thanks for the call. congratulations on being 88 years old. we look forward to hearing from you again. next is claw deen from indiana. good morning to you. do you know who's from there? caller: yes, yes. the reason i'm calling is the money issue on capitol hill, i find it kind of the largest legal house of prostitution in this country. and the supreme court seems to support it. it's just frustrating with the thing that they can go on and on and on. it would just be the same result in the end. but anyway, that's my comment. thank you for your time. bye-bye. hovep one of our views saying i

don't hate wealthy people. the people controlling our politics is not good. corporations are not people and this hurts the process. one other article, from a professor of law has a piece this morning inside the outlook section of the "washington post." the fate of health care should not come down to nine justices, try 19. a look at how the supreme court in his words could be larger, fairer and smarter. coming up in just a couple of minutes, our sunday round table discussion. we're going to focus on the president and mitt romney speaking to hispanic groups in orlando, florida. alfonso aguilar and maria cardona will be here to talk about the impact of the hispanic vote. back on the issue of money and politics, abby phillip of politico is joining us. we'll turn our attention to syria and russia's role. that's all coming up later in

the program. c-span radio is the only place where you can listen to all five sunday programs, beginning at noon eastern, 9:00 on the west coast, commercial free. keeping track of all the guests. she's joining us from c-span radio studio. heard coast to coast on x.m. channel 119. good morning nancy. >> good morning, steve. topics include presidential politics, the investigation into fast and furious program. and the economy and as you mention you can hear rebroadcast of these network programs here on c-span radio. "meet the press" begins the lineup that airs at noon eastern time with host david gregory talking with oversight committee chairman of california. also, florida republican senator marko rubio and former new mexico democrat governor bill richardson. another appearance by congressman isa.

fox news sunday follows at 2:00. host chris wallace also talking with respective isa, as well as the ranking democrat, e likea cumming of maryland. candy curly sits down with ed gillespie. and democratic representative and former commerce secretary carlos gutierrez. bob schieffer talks with former republican presidential candidate, texas governor rick perry. los angeles mayor, and former minnesota governor tim polenti. listen to them all on c-span

radio heard on 90.1 f.m., nationwide on x.m. satellite radio channel 119. listen on your blackberry, download or go online to c-span radio.org. >> this week -- >> this is something that was kept under the rug, not only kept from the american people but the mexican people as well. there are hundreds of faceless, innocent mexican citizens who have been murdered as a result of this. but the only thing that we knew outside of government program was that guns from american gun dealers were going into mexico and causing all these problems with the cartel when really the government was sanking these sales and sending them into mexico. >> she's interviewed by white house correspondent major garrett.

"washington journal" continues. host: our sunday rund table. we want to welcome maria cardona, just back from the conference that we'll be focusing on in just a moment. and alfonso aguilar, who is the executive director of the latino partnership for conservative principles. you both came back from the conference. what did you take away from mitt romney and the president? guest: i thought it was a very interesting conference. i think romney made a very good point that if he is selected he won't look at temporary solutions, that he would look at working in congress with democrats and republicans to find permanent solutions to immigration. we need a president who can actually work with congress. i think president obama has shown on this issue, like others, he can't work with republicans.

host: maria cardona? caller: i have a different opinion. the president was very well received, a very friendly crowd. romney i give him credit for going. not a very friendly crowd for him. mainly because throughout the primaries, romney struck a very hostile chord on immigration towards latino community. he talked about vetoing the dream act which is exactly the policy that the president announced last week. he also talked about not reporting comprehensive immigration reform. he talked about the arizona 1070 law as being a model for the nation. on friday he couldn't even answer whether he would keep in place president obama's temporary policy of halting deportation for the almost one million kids who came here out of no fault of their own when they were children and who have been positive contributors to american society.

and so i think that that speech was wanting. he did blame the president, but i think when republicans blame the president for not being able to get anything done on immigration, it's the height of hypocrisy. when you have 11 republican senators in congress still today that just a few short years ago supported the mccain-kennedy bill, comprehensive immigration reform, including john mccain himself has turned their back on the issue because their party has lurninged so much to the right that they can't support it without losing the conservative base, that's as political as it gets. when you put politics before your country in terms of trying to solve the nation's problems, you can't really blame the president. host: just explain this convention, and then the question to you who makes up this gathering.

guest: well, i think they're mostly democratic elected officials. the participants i think are mostly democratic. i think they do represent, for the most part, a hispanic liberal elite. i don't think most hispanics out there know -- i work with them closely, i think they're a great organization. but i don't think we should make much of the response. again, they were the hispanic liberal elite. i don't think they represent the grass roots. but briefly responding to maria's point, it was very interesting that president obama said, he actually even almost commended president bush for trying to work with democrats in congress. but you see, that's precisely what president obama hasn't done. president bush sent his cabinet members up to negotiate with ted kennedy of the democratic leadership. this president hasn't done that! he just said my door is open

when you want to talk to me. but that's not what a president does. one of the most important responsibilities of the president is coalition building. go out there, get the con sense suss. he's saying i don't have the republican votes, but i'm going to go to congress. that's the problem here. i'm going to show you both an ad that takes aim at -- this is from obama. this is a web video. >> scratching your head and wondering why a man who wants to be president can't tell us a little bit more about what he would do. >> five times, five times bob shaper of cbs tried for a direct answer. >> mitt romney still decline wls he would overturn. i asked ron johnson three times yesterday, he declined to answer.

>> mitt romney has now completed his fifth day of having absolutely no idea what he thinks about president obama's policy of immigration. >> after his speech, he refused to answer questions about undocumented college students who said she confronted the g.o.p. contender. >> are you disappointed in that? >> i'm very disappointed, because i want to know what my life will be like when he gets elected. what my family's life is going to be like if he gets elected. host: so let me go back to the question that was posed last saturday when he sat down with mitt romney. does he oppose the bill or the timing of it? guest: i think it's very clear he opposes both. this is a political move right before the election. he believes it's wrong because

this is temporary relief. it doesn't provide immigration status to young undocumented people and he wants to work on permment solutions. now, the president said governor romney opposes, romney is very clear he would have vetoed harry reid act. but he said the dream act, that would lead a path to sit zynn -- citizenship. guest: the problem with that is he has not answered the question, as you mentioned in terms of what he would do with president obama's policy. the problem with what he talked about, the version of the dream act he talked about which is fantastic and we need that, it's a very small proportion of the kids that we're talking about. the dream act essentially was a bipartisan, historically bipartisan legislation that focused on the kids who wanted to go to school. not just those in the military.

the other problem was what romney said or didn't say in his speech was that he didn't mention anything about what he would do with the 12 million undocumented immigrants that are here. as you know, that is the biggest issue. because we're not going to deport them, as much as mitt romney wants to do that. in fact one of the things he talked about during the primaries which is another reason he's in such a big hole with the latino vote in this country, he talked about wanting to make life so miserable for those 12 million undocumented immigrants that they would have to self deport. and again, i'll go back to response to something my friend alfonso said. the president's very first bipartisan meeting at the white house when he took office was to talk about immigration, was to bring people together to see how they could go about putting forth and agreeing on it. there was no need to have a discussion on the legislation

because it already existed! and it was supported by partisan group of legislators. guest: but congressman gutierrez, one of the biggest critics of the president saying he has not done enough on immigration reform. been very critical. guest: yes, he has. absolutely. i think that democrats, as well as all the activists around the country, have really pushed the president to be doing more. and guess what? that is one of the reasons why he put forth his policy a couple of weeks ago. because he knows it's the right thin to do. he tried to do some other administrative fixes. he tried to continue to talk about pushing republicans to come to the table on this. there was no need for negotiation. mccain-kennedy existed. there was a large coalition back in 2006 and 2007. i pulse commend president bush for bringing this forth. but again it shows us there is not enough republicans that support this. right now no republicans support this, when in fact 11 of them still exist on the hill today.

guest: i'll give the president that he had that summit at the beginning of his administration, that was it. the past years we've had the j-lo summit, the eva longoria summit to talk about immigration. even met with officials from the burble administration. he hasn't met with mitch mcconnell and speaker boehner to talk about this issue. even with the dream act, for example, knowing that marko rubio was flo tating the dream out there of the alternative dream act before taking this, wouldn't he have picked up the phone saying how can we work together to get a permanent solution? he could have but he didn't. he's unwilling and incable of engaging republicans in a conversation. i really believe if the president had reached out to republicans we could have gotten something done. look, another speech was great

was marko rubio's speech saying this issue has been used politically by both parties. i'm sure there are democratic strategists tells obama use this issue exclusively for politics. guest: no, no. guest: i think we need to find permanent solutions that can really solve this problem. guest: alfonso you know better than a lot of people when you have mitch mcconll, the leader of the senate basically saying that the republicans number one priority is not to solve the nation's biggest problems facing us, but it is to make this president a one-term president. and by the way, the president has really tried to reach out to republicans, not just on immigration but every other issue facing us. the american people know it's very well and poll after poll says they commend this president for reaching out.

when you have mitch mcconnell saying this president will be a one term president, this is as political as you get. own of our views saying let's not forget legal immigration, let's not condone illegal immigration. guest: i think another proposal, a very specific proposal has been mentioned, is that governor romney made in his speech was to do away with quoteas for the children and spouses of permanent residents. that means that a permanent resident could bring his children, his spouse, immediately to the country. that could increase immigration to the country. immigrant vissa's by perhaps 50% or more. a very bold proposal.

president obama said, let's not forget, he would work on immigration the first year of his administration. and he didn't do it. he had a democratic house and a democratic senate. he can say he had other priorities. he knew coming in he had to deal with the economy. that he wanted to deal with it. that just doesn't gel. that compluse just doesn't gel for the majority of hispanics. he mentioned the dream act in 2010. how can you work with republicans and say you can't present amendments? you either vote for it or against it. host: shelly is on the phone, thanks for waiting, good morning. caller: good morning, thanks for taking my call. my grand paternos came here legally and i don't understand

this dream act. our schools are so overburdened, they have to hire spanish teachers to teach. i think these kids, of course it's not their fault, but they need to blame their parents for crossing that border illegally and they need to leave. thank you very much. guest: and that's something steve that we have to deal with in this country and that is the fear of these demographic changes that are happening, whether that's threw the 12 million documented imdeprants that are here, or through all the illegal immigration that is happening. you know, the caller states a concern that i think a lot of americans do share, but at the same time most americans also understand that these are kids that are american in every way, shape and form, that all of us around the table are except for that little piece of paper that says they're american. many of these kids do not know even their home country, have never been there. perhaps don't even speak the

language and i think alfonso agrees with me on this. we have to do something to make sure these kids can continue to be positive contributors to this country. a lot of them, steve, are highest grades in their classes. and they were living under the threat of deportation. in fact, we were on a show last week and i asked him, and he had just written basically banging the president for not doing more to stop these deportations. so the president listened to you, and i asked you if he would do this, you said you would support him. and he did. so congratulations. i think it's the right thing to do, a temporary solution, we need to work on the permment solution. republicans need to work with the president. host: she came to this country at the age of 12. he earned her degree in nursing, bachelors and a masters from the

university of texas at austin. she is 31 years old, lived here more than half of her life. again, she's 31, not 30. that was the bench mark. what do you do for somebody like her? guest: look, i agree 100% with what maria just said. i, like other republicans, do believe in a dream act that could give a pass to citizenship. even to people over 30 if they entered illegally when they were minors. at the end however we have to understand that politics is the art of impossible. this is the point that senator rubio made, that there is some elitism on both sides of the issue and we have to find common ground. right now it's very difficult in congress to pass a dream act that would give an immediate pass to citizenship or a special pass to citizenship for these kids. by why don't we work together to get a solution, but at least get them out of the shadows and

provide legal status. i didn't know, but thanks for announcing on national tv that i was responsible for president obama's decision. wow. but if you would have called marko rubio i think we could have been able to work together to get those kids out of the shadows. the decision from the president, we have to see how it's going to be implemented. he already issued a similar memo last year to how the deportations of people already. there's only about 300,000 people. let's see how this new directive works, because it's not a great solution. host: this tweet, democrats and republicans lie to the voters and then end up doing nothing for americans. there is the problem. let's go to pat, houston, texas.

independent line. caller: good morning. you know, i'm an independent but i'm so sick of the republicans always time-outing the phrase that the president does not have leadership skills. you can't lead a horse to water. but you can't make him drink. when the president got into office, he tried to work with the republicans. we have not forgotten the party of no. no, no, no. regardless as to what he proposed. the republicans lie about the president having democrats for all that time. that was four months. host: pat, thanks for the call. any response? guest: well, to accept that proposition we might as well pack our bag and leave washington because we'll never be able to resolve anything.

when president bush went to congress i was part of that administration. we knew we didn't have the votes. but president bush went out there. one of the most important responsibilities of a president is coalition building. president bush went out there to try to get republicans votes and tried to get the democratic votes. he wasn't successful. i think he has to exercise leadership. that's what a leader does. it's risk. but he hasn't taken that risk unfortunately. host: ronald reagan, as you well remember, passed some landmark immigration legislation. george w. bush tried but failed to give illegal immigrants a pass to citizenship. why has this issue been so hard over the last 15 to 20 years? why was reagan able to do it and george w. bush and so far barack

obama have not. guest: i think the republican party have clapinged. even people like jeb bush have said this, that the republican party has shifted so much to the right that somebody today like ronald reagan would be basically chased out of the party and criticized for being a flaming liberal. let's remember exactly what reagan did. you're right, he actually give amnesty and today amnesty is a bad word and nobody wants it. democrats really just want a fair path way to citizenship. but the republicans, basically call that am nesty and that has really poisonned the well of this debate. reagan also raised taxes 11 times on the wealthiest americans. wow, what a concept. imagine that. i think the caller really points to something that a lot of americans really do understand. lot of independents, not partisans. that this president has really tried to work with republicans

and he has basically been slapped in the face time and again, and again i go back to mitch mcconnell because that really says it all. when you have the leader of the republican party in the senate saying their number one goal is to make this president a one-term president, how is this president supposed to take rim cans at their word when they say they want to work with him? he's tried and they have basically refused. especially on legislation, steve, that has historically had support. not just on immigration. but on issues like the american jobs act, which a lot of what is there right now waiting for republicans to support to create one million jobs immediately is all legislation that's historically had by partisan support. i think the caller brings up a very, very good issue. they're looking at washington like republicans, what are you

doing? we need your leadership as well to solve our problems. host: let's hear from the candidates. mitt romney speaking on thursday in the orlando area. >> if president obama had delivered a real recovery, a reagan recovery, we would have five million more jobs today. five million more! the unemployment rate would be about 6%. and our economy would be at least one trillion dollars larger. now tomorrow president obama will speak here. of course that's the first time he's spoken here since his last campaign. he may admit he hasn't kept every promise. and he'll probably say that even though you aren't better off today than you were four years ago, things could be worse. he'll reply that you don't really have an alternative. i believe he's taking your vote for granted. i've come here today with a very

simple message. you do have an alternative. host: so alfonso aguilar, what is the alternative? what would a romney white house do on immigration if he's elected? guest: i think he would work with democrats and republicans to find solution. host: what would the solution be? guest: i think he outlined it. actually distributed a basic plan that would look at domestic enforcement, but also fixing the illegal immigration system. so we're looking at provided the dream act, which would provide young immigrants entering the country illegally, it would improve the guessworker program which was always part of the comprehensive solution. democrats say they support a reform, but the president never talks about the program. then finally i think doing away with the caps for the children

of spouses of permanent residents would go a long way to expanding illegal immigration from a million immigrants receiving a year to perhaps a million and a half to two million. this is an incredible proposal for those families waiting to be reunited. let me say something up to the point that governor romney made at the very beginning of that clip. you know, immigration is an important issue for latinos. but the economy's number one issue for latinos. last month's jobs report shows that latino employment went up from 10.3% to 11%. latinos are hurting. and they haven't seen the jobs that this president says he's creating. companies are just not recruiting. and they're concerned about that. and i think governor romney's right when he says that they're taking the latino vote for granted. remember harry reid saying he could understand how any latino could be a republican. that is insulting to latinos. i think demoats have been very

continued sending towards latinos, trying to group them. we had a herd mentality. the truth is there's a lot of diversity. depending on the states you go to, take florida for example, a very die verse latino community and the president cannot take it for granted. host: from jim, says there is a clear path way. it is called legal immigration. in 2000 there were about 35 million latinos in the u.s., in 2010, 50 million. you can see the increase. colorado, florida, north carolina, virginia, and arizona, some key battleground states. the headline, these eight states where latinos could sink the republicans. guest: there's no question about that, steve. this is why mitt romney went to

speak there, even though he had very little to say because he knows he cannot win the white house without at least 40% of the latino vote. that is a percentage that actually came from a republican pollster back in 2004 when george bush was running. so imagine from there to now, that number has got to be up to at least 45%. mitt romney is probably at 24% right now. so they are really hurting in terms of the percentage they need. the problem is he has nothing to say. not just on immigration. where frankly it really surprised me and others in the audience where in addition to not saying anything about the 12 million undocumented immigrants that were here, in addition to not being able to say whether he would appeal the policy that president obama put forth, he talked about an electrified fence. and he also talked about wanting

to fix legal immigration, which i completely agree with him. moth democrats do. but here's the problem that republicans really put themselves in when they talk about how much they love legal immigration and how much they don't like illegal immigrants. that, you are telling basically the community, there are a lot of mixed families in latino communities meaning you might have a mother and a father who are undocumented and kids who are citizens. or an aunt and uncle who are legal immigrants and cousins that are illegal. basically saying we love half of your family but we think the rest are criminals. host: good morning to our next caller. caller: good morning. you know, as a republican i am not against legal immigration. and i think the majority of americans feel the same way. if you come to this country legally, you deserve all of our

benefits. but when you cross that border and have a baby and that baby is an immediate u.s. citizen, those parents are entitled to welfare. and i agree, there has to be something done. i think everybody, democrat, republican, independent agree, you can't solve that problem until you close the border and have a legal system to get people here to work part-time, to be laborers in the fields, and i'm really sick and tired of listening to the democrats pander to the hispanics when the blacks in this country, who are uneducated are losing their jobs because the illegals come here, do a better job because they have work ethic, which everybody applauds, but they can't get a job because you've got an illegal taking their job from them. you go anywhere into a hotel, you don't see black people working. you see the illegals who can't speak english! so please, get with the program, and close the borders and give some kind of legal status to

people who have been here, who do the right thing. host: thanks for the call. bill puts it even more direct than that, what are the guests solutions? so let me turn to you. guest: well, this is the problem we have. i've been very open talking about this. first of all, i'm a conservative and then a republican. because i'm a conservative like ronald reagan, i believe in immigration. there's a fundamental problem with what some of this caller is saying. i don't think they represent the majority of republicans. fact, if you see all the polling for the american people, democrats and republicans, they favor border security, they also favor legal zation and a robust worker program. the reality is nobody likes to enter illegally. the problem is that we have a market need, a labor market need for foreign workers. in certain sectors of our economy. there are certain jobs that

americans don't want to do or frankly jobs where no americans of working age to do it. our society is aging. so we need to find a way to fix the system so people can come here legally. we don't like illegal immigration. i don't think even undocumented immigrants like illegal immigration. guest: i agree with that. guest: so we need to fix the system so people can come in the country to work legally and in a dignified way. but because of the unions a mechanism that would allow for the legal flow of workers when our economy needs them, obama keeps talking about border security, about legalization, the dream act, but there's no talk about a robust guessworker

program. host: let me go back to maria cardona's point. this is a poll that was conducted, alfonso aguilar, in a number of key states. arizona, colorado, florida, nevada and virginia. took place earlier this month after the president's decision. 775 latino voters and asked the question how enthusiastic are you of the president? about half, 49% saying they are more enthusiastic. when asked the same question about mitt romney, only 10% said that. clearly there is a problem by the republicans in this community. guest: yes. certainly. i said i criticized governor romney during the primary for some of the statements he made. i said he enters the general election handicapped a lot. but here's where the democratic strategists make a mistake. again, treating the latino community as a monoli thnch hic group. i don't think that's 40% or 45% is accurate. look at those battleground states where the latino vote is

decisive and let's see how the candidate does it. if we look at romney in florida, all the polls show him at least at 37% to even more than 40%. that's very competitive. with that kind of vote he can win florida or nevada. the latest nbc poll has romney with 31% of the latino vote. i really think he's competitive in some of these states. i remember arizona 2010 where they said that's where it was passed 1070, she's not going to get any latino voters. she ended up getting -- and i don't support her, but she got 40% of the latino vote. guest: that's not correct. that's not a flawed poll. guest: that's actually exit polling. guest: the exit polling was wrong. guest: that's what they keep saying. we're showing we're independent

voters, that we're willing to vote for democrats or republicans. you cannot take us for granted. guest: i agree with that. guest: he's doing well in florida and nevada. frankly, if you look at his strategy, if he wins florida, say ohio, then picks up n and some other states, we have a new president, president romney. guest: that won't happen. guest: i think you have to look at those states where latinos are decisive battleground states. guest: there's no question we have to look at each of the states and not necessarily nationally. but the problem is, and again i go back to latino decisions and there are very few polling firms that know how to poll latino voters well. and latino decisions is one of them. if you look at the polls they have done since in these battleground states, president obama is almost at 70% with latino voters. and romney is in the low 20's. in florida, it's not as high as

what alfonso said. but again, i will say romney needs to continue to reach out to latinos. i'm ala -- i'm a latina first. the economy, this is another thing i agree with, the economy is number one issue for latinos. it's not immigration. what happens with immigration is what we call a mobilizing issue, or a filter issue. meaning that because most of us know somebody who is undocumented, we want to know how the republicans and how the democrats are speaking to us about immigration. and this is where romney has put himself in a box during the primaries. talking about vetoing the dream act. talking about wanting for the 12 million to self deport. some of his senior advisors, chris kovach, author of the e agree yuss arizona law. pete wilson that actually turned california blue because of all

the latinos that came out to vote for democrats. host: to be fair to mitt romney, he said he opposed the democratic version of the dream act, not the bipartisan. guest: he opposed the bipartisan! absolutely. it wasn't the democratic version. that was the historic 10 year bipartisan legislation that had been supported by republicans. when the president tried to get them to support it, the same legislation that hay had supported before, he was only able to get three republicans to support it. host: you disagree? guest: absolutely. i talk to republicans, senators every day. i always ask them have you received a call from the white house? and the answer is no. fact of matter is if they wanted to do something with the dream act in 2010, why didn't they allow it? guest: because it was the same legislation they had supported before. it was exactly the same one!

politics came into play. guest: there has to be a negotiation, there has to be talking. guest: there was talking. guest: this is where latino voters are very shrewd. they see a president who's unable to work with the congress. and they know that we're going to have a congress that may be even more republican. the republican house, and perhaps even a republican senate. what is this president going to be able to accomplish on immigration with a republican congress? nothing. i think the message was very clear from governor romney, i will work with democrats and republicans in congress. so there's a better cannes of getting something constructive done with immigration with a president romney. host: let me read something --

and from our twitter page. scott has been waiting on the line from san antonio. good morning to you, scott. caller: good morning. i'm sorry -- this is very personal to me. i was brn in the philippines, i'm a vurs, i'm very thankful to be an american citizen. i've been in this country for 15 years. i can tell you there are thousands of people from the philippines and that are waiting in line patiently to become americans, to have their chance at the american dream. and maria cardona, i respect you, but i wish you would say you're proud to be an american first before latino. i'm i'm an american first and i really feel that i just can't believe you let these people come over here and they are criminals because they broke the laws! and there are millions of people that deserve just as much a

chance as the mexican-americans or latinos to come over. and just because geographic cli they came over, they cross the border illegally through no fault of their own. i don't hate them. i'm in san antonio, i love the hispanic food, the people are very nice. but the point is this, we've got to learn to control our borders. mexico, you cannot transport into mexico. they put you into prison if you break into their country illegally. you have to think about all the people from other country. i have family members that are teachers and they are nurses. they can't get over here right now. they will not let them over here right now because there are quoteas on asians, filipinos. i'm not trying to make any racial diversity or -- it's just very upsetting. you can't let people come over here just because they live farther than the mexicans that live next door. and yes i feel sorry for mexico,

they sneak across. we should help mexico. i actually did missionary work and i met tim tebow and he did a lot of work in the philippines. but the point is that our system is broke. both sides are making it very political. i'm very upset about it. i haven't seen some family members in years. i'm going to the philippines in three weeks to see them. and just because they're playing politics with immigration, there are other just as rewarding people who don't have the chance to come over here. by the way, we speak fluent english and in san antonio i've taken care of illegal and undocumented babies. they get free welfare, they get medical, they get housing. and i love america, i'll take care of anybody. but i will not say this is the right issue. you're favoring one socially economic group over another. thank you very much. host: you came to this country at what age? caller: i came over here 15 years ago, i'm in my 40's now. host: when did you become an

american citizen? caller: i became a citizen 10 years ago. host: thank you for calling and sharing your story with us. maria cardona? he took aim at you specifically. guest: i think he makes a very compelling case. this is one of the reasons why it is such a difficult issue. it is very emotional. he makes some very good points. why it is so difficult because you have a lot of people who do want to come over here legally and have really respected the law and who are waiting. and i get that. and democrats get that. and republicans get that. but the reality is that there are 12 million undocumented immigrants that are here. they're not going to go away. mitt romney wants them to self deport. that is not a real solution. this is why the mccain-kennedy bill was the legislation that really had the most chance to pass. it was supported by a

bipartisan, not just a bipartisan of groups of members on the hill, it was supported by the u.s. chamber of commerce. it was supported by churches. it was supported by labor. when you have that kind of coalition together that tells you something, that it was really responding to some of the concerns that a whole lot of, a whole host of groups in this country were looking to in order to solve. and then you have republicans that basically turn their back on it. the mccain-kennedy bill, or comprehensive immigration reform, really would have looked at all the concerns of colorado that alfonso talks about. illegal immigration, yes, we need to fix. that is something we need to deal with. and democrats support most of the things that romney talked about on friday, or on thursday. but the fact of the matter is you need to do something with the 12 million undocumented immigrants that are here. from a national standpoint and

economic standpoint we can't have them continue to live in the shadows. we would have an influx of $1.5 trillion into our economy and that is something we need. host: james clark calls that the best call of the decade. thank you for that comment on our twitter page. the president also speaking to the conference in orlando. here's what he said on friday. >> question, we should consider this. providing these young people with the opportunity for a temporary measure, is relief the right thing to do? i think it was. it's long past time that we gave them a sense of hope. your speaker from yesterday has a different view. in he speech he said when he makes a promise to you he'll keep it. he has promised to veto the

dream act. and we should take him at his word. i'm just saying. host: the president in orlando on friday. alfonso aguilar, does anyone think the republicans will ever agree to immigration reform? the fear being this would be a voting bloc that would largely support democrats once they became citizens? guest: again, this is says this is a monolithic bloc. we saw president bush get 44% of the latino vote in florida. latinos are very independent. they may vote a certain way and in the next election a completely different way. i do not buy the argument that the majority will be democratic.

ronald reagan used to say the latinos are conservative and they just don't know it. he did not mean it in a conservative -- in a demeaning way. to the caller, i believe it shows how passionate this debate is, but it does not help when democrats and those on the left accuse those on the right of being racist continuously. i disagree with chris 100% on immigration but calling him a white promises? that's charged. when they see republicans don't want to do anything and romney would veto the dream act, a qualifier statement. guest: but he would though. guest: it was clear he met the harry reid dream act. anytime they bring in the racist word --

guest: are not talking about racism. guest: anytime anyone opposes immigration reform -- [cross talk] that we bought this mess here on national tv. obama does not support comprehensive reform. what president bush supported a, legalization. when obama was a senator and was part of that discussion, he introduced an amendment to try to kill comprehensive reform. it was an amendment drafted by the unions because they proposed a guest worker program. obama does not. guest: it has all the elements you just talked about. in the beginning, the unions were against it. guess what? they came around and there were part of the coalition.

the only people who have turned their back on comprehensive reform are the senators who, before obama became president, changed. host: canton, n.c., waiting patiently. caller: maria, this is to you. barack obama told john mccain that we're doing it this way whether you like it or not. two, before fast and furious came out, you are out at work every single day saying that we're sending guns to mexico. buy ak-47's straight from china.

guest: we could do a whole show on fast and furious. he brings up why this is a difficult. this brings up actions on both sides. to his first comment, he brought up health care. again, we could do another show on that. let's not forget that the health care bill contains 218 republican provisions -- 218 republican ideas -- that were accepted by democrats and by the president to be a part of the health care bill including the exchanges and including, famously, the mandate which was supported initially and was an idea that came out of the heritage foundation. let's not forget that this president, up from the time he came into office has bent over

backwards trying to work over republicans. no matter what he did and what he supported, they were going to say no. why? mitch mcconnell said they're not there to solve problems. they are there to make sure this president is a one-term president. that's not leadership. host: disagreeing -- then there's this off of twitter -- in response? guest: that's a loaded question that is clearly from a liberal caller. voter suppression -- host: you tihnk? our viewers are opinionated. guest: i love it.

guest: we come out and develop efforts to encourage latino voters and democrats immediately attacked us because we're trying to suppress latino votes. that's absolutely ridiculous. there have been efforts, and we know it, by acorn and others to ensure that non-citizens vote. i have no problem and sharing the databases -- ensuring the databases include only citizens. this is a no-brainer. to say that this is voter suppression is ridiculous. guest: it's actually not ridiculous and it has been documented there have been robocalls saying their voting day is next week, not today,

giving false information. go to try toing to register to vote because you're already afraid. that is a solution in search of a problem. when you have rick scott basically trying to target and the majority of those being purged having a latino last name, that is very iffy. guest: the criticized republicans for not reaching out. guest: if that's the only thing they can do to reject to latinos -- guest: ridiculous. going back to jobs. president obama was very clear that by passing the stimulus plan, unemployment would not go

beyond 8%. it did. for latinos, it reached 13% and has now stopped at 11%. in states like nevada, it is that 19%. why should they believe that these big government policies are creating jobs? this massive stimulus bill has not created any jobs. guest: the president has treated 4.3 billion jobs in the came into office. the stimulus bill that republicans love to desecrate, independent economists have said that it has basically saved this economy from a second great depression and has created millions and millions of jobs. let's talk about jobs. i agree the economy is the number one issue for latinos. there is a transportation bill sitting in the senate that would basically help create millions of jobs for latinos, who we now

in what are in construction. host: moving this carries over to the green room. we talk about the issues of immigration, the president, and romney at the organization of elected latinos. next caller from waco, texas. caller: yes, sir. i want to make a common to all politicians, especially to all of the americans out there. mr. aguilar, i want to see your expression. there is a bigger picture than just politics in this world. there is a human migration that you cannot stop. it will not stop. this country, if it does not realize that it needs a political system that

identifies people, not just here in this country, but all over the world, we're not just having a hard time to come up and survive the way it is. host: we will get a response. guest: i agree. perhaps he has been told by some parties that republicans are anti-immigrant. i worked with president george w. bush very hard to get comprehensive reform. he came out with a plan that included five points for legalization and a guest worker program. he spoke to the entire country and sent his cabinet members to negotiate with democrats, even though we knew he did not have the votes. we have not seen that leadership from president obama. forget about the parties. let's vote for people who keep their word. we were told we are going to have immigration reform.

we have had a democratic house and senate and he did not do anything. host: this comment, since they won the president has worked with republicans. guest: it doesn't exist. take bill clinton and newt gingrich. two offices. they were tough negotiators, but there were negotiations -- they were tough negotiators. i do not know if there is something with his personality, but he cannot sit down to develop a personal relationship and work with congress. guest: to as they do not want to work with him. they made it very clear. i agree. americans are smart. than understand. we see this time and time again that this president has been the one that has mostly try to reach

out and republicans have repeatedly slapped him down again. mitch mcconnell's number one goal? make him a one-term president. guest: your validating the conclusion that nothing will get done on emigration. guest: validating the republicans need to understand that they did not get elected to block everything this president is doing. they got elected to try to solve our biggest problems. they need to start working with this president to try to do that. host: other point on our viewers being opinionated. guest: absolutely. host: robert, you get the last word. thank you for waiting. caller: why has never considered the more positive impact that

the deportation of some illegal immigrants would have on the mexican people, their culture, and society? there is a definite gap between wealthy mexican aristocrats and the impoverished mexican communities. deportation of those who have experienced a much fuller, robust american educational system and what effect that would have on the mexican people. good point.s a very i would not focus it that way. i would say we need a system that works that recognizes that we need to base our immigration policies in the free market. this is the problem. the problem of illegality has been created by big government, by encompassing under this guest worker category where 65,000

people will come in and provide arbitrary numbers for workers who do not respond to the reality of our labour market. if we have a guest worker program based on the market, will we have a slow-growing economy like now? we would accept your workers. many do not want to remain in this country. many want to work here and then go back to mexico. we have to allow for that free flow. guest: this is why many comprehensive immigration reform. this will be solved. by the way, the border is safe for today in than it has been in 50 years. there is more resources this president has put into enforcing the border than even george w. bush did. again, this president has bent over backwards to try to give the republicans what they want on enforcement, because it's the right thing to do.

republicans still refuse to come to the table on comprehensive immigration reform. a is supported, but because this president supports it now, they want to see him fail. host: he is out with a new book. it he spoke at the conference last week. his speech is available on our website. how serious do you think of the romney campaign is betting him as a potential running mate? -- vetting him? guest: i do not know how they're going about vetting their candidates, but i think rubio is a rising star. he is a real conservative who has the support of the tea party, latinos, and immigration. he would be a wonderful candidate. the romney campaign is listening, i think he would be a great candidate. host: you do not think he is being affected seriously? -- vetted seriously?

guest: would be presumptuous for us to say. guest: i don't think he is because of the flip-flop they said last week. when he got called on it, then said he was. marco rubio is a rising star. he has that he's not ready to be vice president. he should wait and do things on his own terms. host: maria cardona, cnn. alfonso aguilar, former head of the u.s. office of citizenship and now executive director of the latino partnership for conservative principles. a very lively conversation. thank you for coming. in a few minutes, the issue of money and politics, again specifically how much are the campaign's raising and their affiliated organizations? pac's.nd super

and later, on the former professor talking about billy's, syria, russia, and the u.s.. -- belize, syria, and more. we're back in a moment. [video clip] >> have you approach them differently? >> book interviews are gathering history? i think of interviewing when i work for the news side as gathering contemporary information. >> at difficult as it to remain impartial and not get caught up in the high of one campaign or another? >> i want to try to, as best as

i can come and give people an understanding of what is happening in the campaign. it's not that difficult to put your bias to the side. >> has this changed your line of work in reporting and getting your information? >> twitter is a primary news source for anyone covering politics and anyone who pays attention to politics. it did not exist four years ago. >> tonight, purdy university students interview dan balz, on covering elections, what is newsworthy, and presidential election tonight at 8:00 on c- span. >> we welcome you to the misery governor's mansion. -- missouri governor's mansion. >> we have the first photograph of the first governor, his wife, and their child. his granddaughter wrote "good

night, moon," a favorite of school children all over the united states. >> july 7th and eighth, american history tv and "booktv." exploring jefferson city inside the governor's mansion. >> the story said he rode his horse up the front steps of the mansion come into the dining room, and proceeded to feed his horse oats out of the sideboard. the comment was probably should not be feeding his oars in the governor's mansion and his comment was he has had to feed people with less manner than his horse. >> american history tv and bookt ov.

host: turning your attention back to the issue of money and politics. abby phillip follows this as a reporter for politico. let's talk about the campaign. romney surpassing in some of the latest figures with all eyes on what the two campaigns will raise in june and july? guest: 1 the most important things we know is that romney has enough -- another tool to joint fund raise with the republican national committee. most of the money his campaign raised, probably close to $50 million, came from the joint efforts were they can donate $75,800 to the romney campaign reelection efforts. host: romney is winning the mad- donor award and some of that is taking place this weekend in you

all -- mega-donor award this weekend utah. they are also contributing to crossroads gps come up affiliated indirectly with romney in the republican party. guest: they want to bring these donors into the fold. they are not only people who are likely max singer out to the romney campaign and the republican national committee but -- likely maxing out to the campaign. they want to keep the donors in the fold and make them feel as though the romney campaign apparatus is well run, they know what they're doing, and their money will make a difference. host: i know you have been keeping close track of this. jummy be able to see this changeover. you can see exactly where the

big money is coming from. you can see in new york, d.c., miami, texas, and south florida is where the big fund raising is taking place. guest: you see both of them going to those places all the time. he has been to new york 23 times since he's become president and will likely be there much more in the coming months. i think both obama and romney, interestingly enough, have a similar donor base. these are very wealthy people, sometimes wall street, sometimes business people. they historically tap into the same donors. president obama seems to be leaning more towards people on the hollywood side, los angeles, san francisco, partially because wall street donors have in some ways turned their backs on him as much as how they're willing to contribute. host: if you look at this, you

can see how much influence from new york, down to washington, and then texas in the middle. guest: texas has become increasingly big plays for democrats and republicans to go for campaign cash. i spoke to some people there who say some of the major cities, like austin and houston, fight between themselves to see who can raise the most money particularly for romney. the donors there are very active and organized. they are engaged in a fund- raising apparatus that i think has only grown especially since george w. bush became president and activated that segment of the republican party. host: our phone lines are open. the numbers are on your screen.

it can join the conversation on twitter. email -- journal@c-span.org. our guest is abby phillip with politico. we were focusing on money and politics. senator john mccain said it is corrupting american politics and he took aim at the citizens united case. he was interviewed by judy woodruff. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> to view this is not having a corrupt influence on politics -- i just wish one of them had run for county sheriff. one of the five supreme court justices that voted to invalidate what we know of as mccain-fine gold. i guarantee you, judy, there will be scandals. there is too much money washing

around political campaigns to date. it will take a scandal and then maybe not we can have the supreme court go back and revisit this issue. their rule on constitutionality, so does pass another law does not cut it. i'm afraid we're in for a very bleak jperiod in american politics. we'll talk about how much money is in the presidential campaign. suppose there is a senate campaign and 10 people get together and decide to contribute $10 million each. you think that would not affect that senate campaign? host: that was from "pbs news hour." you measure the amount of donations and not the amount of influence. dow was off of twitter. questionat's a good and there remains to be seen. one thing reporters have been trying to do is talk about what some of these major donors want

from their candidates. when rick santorum was a candidate, one major donor was very interested in family values issues and very interested in a islamic extremism. he talked to reporters about what he contributed millions of dollars to support santorum as an individual, he said it was because he believed santorum was going to focus on those issues if he was elected president. that's not evidence of corruption, per se, but it opens up the question about whether or not candidates will be sensitive to the desires of their donors when they're supporting them to the tune of millions of millions of dollars. host: from sumter, south carolina, for abby phillip. caller: good morning, steve. for many years, i have been promoting this show to my family and friends and i would like to give kudos to my sister, cathy,

who got on the area today to discuss the farm bill. i'm trying to increase participation. i think that was really great of her. host: is she your younger or older sister? caller: my question to politico, how come they're not talking about violation of the lawn? violation in this grouping in do rove, sayingrl there is no coordinated effort is ridiculous. also, john mccain is right. they are not discussing influence that citizens united is having nor the breaking of the lock itself. i just don't understand that. host: don, thanks for the call. was your sister older or younger from cleveland? caller: she's my younger sister.

she's tough. american hero, a lookout. host: thank you for spreading the word. your call from south carolina, and his point, abby phillip. guest: that's a good point that needs to be cleared up in the media. part of the laws that exist right now say that it is not legal for these outside groups, in campaigns to coordinate on message but they are allowed to coordinate to some degree in fund raising. romney as a candidate could go to donors to solicit checks long as he does not say, "i would like you to donate a specific sum of money to this group." he can ask them in general terms to make contributions. the law as it stands now is quite ambiguous which allows for things like this utah confab we

are seeing this weekend to occur. many of the candidates, on both sides, are utilizing the ambiguity in the bill ball to the extent that they can -- the ambiguity in the lot to raise the money and get an advantage over the other side. host: writing about the utah confab, as you call it. pointing out that his political operations seem to shut down and relocate. also meeting with beth myers who is vettign v.p. candidates.

guest: as good as to how important they are to the republican apparatus. this you talk retreat is about showing the donors, many who are businessmen looking at cost benefit analysis, they want to know their money is being well spent. part of that is efforts on behalf of the campaign and they are not going to be wasting time with these donors. but, they are in need of many very large checks in order to get up to the romney campaign goal of $800 million for this election cycle. american crossroads has a goal that is higher. probably upwards of $1 billion, $1.5 billion. some people say two billion dollars. >> abby phillip, to a far -- harford. her bio can be seen online at

politico.com. sam is online. -- on the line. caller: basically, i called in several years ago. i am calling this morning because this topic really interests me. it seems to me that c-span, when it comes to issues like this, has been very biased. in favor of the democratic party. in recent months, it has been said that obama is ahead when it comes to fund raising. he has the money to defeat any republican. from politico has not mentioned anything about the democratic party in the influence they have on wall street. a substantial amount of donors

to the democratic party -- c-span is being liberal. i would hope your guests would discuss the substantial amount of money being raised by the democrats in wall street' and hollywood. seems to me you are so against a public party. the media is being so biased. i do not seem any republicans being elected, especially if the media in c-span continues to be biased and he misinformed the american public. host: i respectfully disagree because i think anyone who watches this network or our programming on c-span will see

that we provide balanced coverage on all events, all parties, all points of view. we begin this conversation by pointing out that mitt romney raise more money than barack obama in the month of may so he is out-raising him. is that the difference? thank you for your call. i disagree with you. we appreciate your call, comments, and free back. -- feedback. guest: it is important to note we have more information now about how the romney campaign is doing fund-raising then we did a month ago or two once ago. all signs have pointed to a potential for mitt romney to outpace president obama in terms of his fund-raising into my understanding -- and my understanding is that the romney advisers are excited

about him winning the white house. they are enthusiastic about wanting to contribute to an effort to get president obama out of the white house and they're using that enthusiasm to donate in large sums of money. that is not to say barack obama is not raising money from large donors. the democrats have historic we raised a lot of money from wall street. the president is quite a bit of money last month and he has an upcoming fundraisers with celebrities. the sheer number of those donors has dwindled over the years. antti i wrote a story it with my colleague about those wall street donors who have supported barack obama and now they are supporting romney. they are not only doing it by

writing $5,000 checks or $40,000 tax, but they are writing million dollars checks to mitt romney. that is helping to turn the tide in the fund-raising debate at this moment in the campaign. >> -- host: howard is on the phone. good morning. welcome to the program. caller: nice to talk to you. the gentleman from virginia was a conservative guy, as i am. i disagree with my friend. take a deep breath. wheat for the next guest. this gentleman hosting this show is probably the most fair host that c-span has. to my lady friend, maybe we ought to look at the business from of c-span.

i think many of your callers would be quite amazed to know that there is not one federal dollar going into c-span. ok? this is a sponsor-pie business. to speak to the event of the republican, i am really excited. i think that the republicans, led by mitch mcconnell who said i want to make this president a one-term president for the simple reason of his political philosophy -- the tarp funds spread across the thee's went directly to unions that spot sir our teachers, firefighters, a policeman. we all need them. we also realize that if we leave

the democrats in power, this will be a continuous battle of tax, tax, spend, spend. i go back to barry goldwater. the democrats spend, spend, spend. nothing has changed. host: final point? caller: i am excited about the ability for the republicans to put together a message that will eliminate this president's office. at least eliminate him as president. thank you. host: thank you. let me take up on his point. he made a statement -- carl rove said mitt romney shrink the money gap. put this into perspective because in 2008, barack obama opted out of federal mentioned

funds in the general election. both parties are opting out of the federal matching funds that they typically get at the convention, meaning this is a campaign that could raise $750,000 in equal that for the republicans in the romney campaign. -- antti call for them -- antti = for the republicans in the the romney campaign. guest: there are a lot of democrats who say the president has ushered in this era of the unlamented money in federal campaigns by for going public funds in his 2008 race. that gave him an $800 million advantage over his opponent, but the obama campaign is facing the possibility of not being able

to match or exceed that number from the last time around. i think you are searing -- hearing a lot about the influence of outside money because they are seeing themselves being outmatched for the first time. democrat or democrat, this is a scary process. and it could mean president obama might not be able to match dollar for dollar what is being thrown at him from the other side. host: democrats' line. good morning. caller: good morning. host: we can hear you. good morning. caller: i keep hearing everybody talking about the congress don't work together. how can you work with somebody that don't like you? the part about it that is really scary is that i lived on the jim

crow -- i lived during the jim crow era. i worked all my life. in the cotton field. cleaning houses. it is not that people do not want to work. they do not have anything to do. host: thank you. guest: there are a lot of people who believe that one of the ways you can bring progress or productivity to washington, d.c. is to change the composition of both houses of congress in the white house so they are controlled by one party. there are people who believe that is the only way things can get done. i do not know if that is true. i do not think this election will necessarily deliver both houses of congress to one party. i think we will have a mixed composition of congress where

democrats and the republicans are going to have do battle with the control over congress. people will have to learn to work together. they have been doing it for decades. at the end of the year, we are facing a dramatic fiscal cliff. a dramatic tax deal. people will have to worry about the spending levels for the foreseeable future antti what to do about entitlements. those issues will require cooperation. host: if you want to keep track of how much money the candidates are raising, you can go to the sec website. sec.gov. we were at the campaign headquarters last tuesday and there are two the areas that are interesting to point out.

one is obama staffers keeping track of money getting raised. the other is the compliance office. they want to make sure who these donors are. they've set them against the dollars. guest: that is because that is were scandals have an. but donors -- when donors who are not legal citizens of the u.s. or are giving more money than they are supposed to be giving, above the federal limit, or giving money away is not their own, all of those things have happened before in the history of campaign finance. if the obama campaign is smart, they try to avoid those situations. the return checks all the time. money is where corruption and up inserting itself -- ends up inserting itself into the

political system. host: our look inside the obama campaign headquarters. our interview with david axelrod is at 6:30 p.m. or 9:30 p.m. here on c-span or available anytime on our website at c- span.org. one of our viewers says that you keep pushing this two party system. we have more parties. we will cover the green party convention next month in baltimore. what about third-party san fundraising? guest: -- third parties and fundraising? guest: this is a perfect opportunity for a third party to come into this system and make a dent in it. partly because of the freedom with which they can raise money from all sorts of sources. on the other hand, i do not think we have seen a huge spurring of third-party enthusiasm. i am not sure why that is the case. when there have been very clear

opportunities for third-party candidates, i am thinking right america's kila it, that is an opportunity for someone to come into the system and change the way we think about politics. one of the reasons it did not work is because candidates need to be vetted. boaters need to get to know candidates through the way they have traditionally gotten to know them and this long process has become very arduous. no candidate stood out in that even though they had an opportunity. that will have to be fixed if a third-party candidate will break through. a lot of people say the money is perhaps a problem. third-party candidates cannot

compete this early with dollars. i think that is only partly the problem because americans elect had a lot of money behind it. then there were not able to field a candidate -- they were not able to field a candidate. host: of twitter -- spring del kamahl i'll be. -- springdale, ohio. caller: i agree with what john mccain was talking about. it is basically run by a lot of money and greed. i believe in campaign finance reform in term limits. i agree in a third party. and, it is too bad that the supreme court judges have decided that everybody can throw corporations and all kinds of

money in there and actually, that is not good for the regular everyday voter. to me, and also the supreme court judge have been spending all of their lives -- guest: that is a very interesting point. i did the supreme court is probably going to want to have an opportunity to reassess their belief that money is not corrupting. that large sums of money does not necessarily dilute the total system, that it does not mean that candidates will do what their donors want. a lot of people are starting to believe that the supreme court will want to have an opportunity to revisit that question in light of this election cycle. we have seen large sums of money.

one of the ways in which money is most influential is house and senate races in a city council races. these are places where a very small amount of money can make a big difference in political cycles. reform ought to be with -- towards those areas where to run and $50,000 checks can essentially by elections for a candidate. i do not want to limit ron paul because he is very active. he was actually very successful at running what amounted to be a third-party candidacy and doing so by raising money from very small donors. it he was successful in raising millions of dollars that way. i think he does show that it is

possible to compete at the presidential double with -- level with a third party platform. host: abby phillip for politico. see her work at politico.com. all eyes on congress as the house and senate come back this week. the latest on the situation in syria. u.s. and russian relations front and center. wayne merry will be joining us. he'll be joining us next as "washington journal" continues. we will talk about egypt and a busy week for congress ahead. the issues are coming up on sunday morning programs. nancy k. low is keeping track of that. -- calo is keeping track of that. >> presidential politics, the

investigation into fast and furious, and the economy. we begin and noon with "meet the press." ell issak with darrow and bill richardson. "this week" avalos with an appearance by issa and of the airbus zero. the democratic member of the oversight committee, elisha cummings. up go state of the union" three years at 3:00 p.m.. democratic congressman louis grittier is also carlos cuddy areas. bob schieffer talks with rick perry.

antonio di rvillagarosa. readers of the five network talk shows begin with "eat th meet the press." finally, "face the nation" at 4:00 p.m. listen to them all here on c- span radio at 90.1 fm, xm 119, on your blackberry, or our iphone app. >> when did clean energy become on 30 word? what is wrong with clean energy? you can believe what you what about our existing energy sources but why couldn't you believe there is an opportunity for clean energy? >> i think we need to create demand in the next five to 10

years for renewals to offset the advantages that fossil fuels have had. it is clearly happening on a state-by-state basis. it would be more effective it did -- if it was a federal policy. >> natural gas -- north america is the only place where we do not have widespread vehicles coming off the assembly line that can use compressed natural gas. there are people who believe compressed natural vehicle cars or trucks are more likely to burst into flames during a crash. >> developing alternative energy sources were all part of a next- generation energy forum hosted by the atlantic magazine. watch their conversations online at the c-span video library. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome wayne merry with the american foreign-

policy council. thank you for being with us. if we want to talk about russia, syria, and the u.s. let us talk about the u.s.- russia relationship generally and the specific relationship between picha and aunt president obama -- putin and president obama. guest: there are a lot of things in which the two sides do not see eye to eye. syria is one of those. there are areas of concrete cooperation. the biggest topic that vladimir putin and president obama talked about was the continuing cooperation on afghanistan. we rely on russia for the overwhelming majority of the logistic supplies, equipment, ammunitions, reinforcement. that is a huge change. we used to be dependent on pakistan. pakistan is worth less on both sides of the war in afghanistan.

russia is on one side. the side we are on. we now are in a position where the obama administration is at odds with pakistan. we do that because now, we do not depend on them to support our troops in afghanistan. we rely on russia. that is something that was worked out by obama and vladimir putin in march of 2009. this works well. few americans recognize the extent to which the most important country in the american strategy in afghanistan is russia. this is an area in which the corporation is taking place largely out of the site of the republic -- the public. it is the most important feature of the relationship between the two countries. host: part of the equation is the trade relationship.

how big is that? how has that changed over the last 15 years? guest: the nets. -- peanuts. that is true. it has never been an important economic relationship. host: is that our fault? guest: the two countries do not have that much to trade. the russian economy is tightly linked with europe. particularly germany. there is not that much russia sells that we would import from them. there is not that much they import from us. there are some consumer goods. boeing does a big operation for engineering in moscow. ford motor company sells automobiles. compared with economic relations between other big countries, russia and germany, america and mexico, america and china, is is pretty small. russia's entry into the world trade organization will create

opportunities for american business. a number of american businesses are looking forward to that with some anticipation. i think one should be very cautious as to how big the relationship the two countries will ever have. the problem with that is that economics tend to be the balancing factor in international relations. it tends to make countries avoid conflicts in other areas. there is a lot of balance in russia's relations with europe or our relations with china. there is not much balance with russia and u.s. syria stabilizes the overall perception on both sides of the relations. host: wayne merry is a you're a senior fellow at the american foreign policy council, which is what? guest: it is a small institute in washington on capitol hill a few blocks from where we are sitting. host: if russia is on the right

side of afghanistan, are they on the wrong side when it comes to syria? guest: the russians have a well thought out policy on syria. i think they painted themselves into a corner. there must -- there not just the negative to the u.s. there are 3.5 components of russian policy. the first is the broad brush and commitment to the principle of state sovereignty as the building block of international relations. the u.s. has developed a concept of humanitarian intervention as overriding state sovereignty. moscow is very cautious about that. the chinese are even more so. this is a fundamental point. the second issue is that what the russians are very concerned about what is going on inside syria, they are concerned about their role in the mideast, in the area. they want to know what kind of a syria will come out of this context.

the assad regime has maintained peaceful relations with israel, directly. its sponsors proxy roarwars. it has been a reliable source of stability, authoritarian stability. the russians worry that assuming my majority government in damascus would be much more revolutionary, islamist, dangerous. the third factor is that syria really is the last patron client relationship that russia has in the middle east. it is not a very valuable relationship. it is the only ones the russians have. it is not the most important relationship syria has. that is the relationship with iran. the russians have 1 foot print left in the middle east, and

that is syria. i believe that by trying to hold onto it, they are damaging their relationship with the rest of the world in ways that are extremely costly to russian interests. host: 1 point in your opinion from one of our viewers wondering if the cia has any influence in syria as this situation continues to simmer. guest: the u.s. is now supplying oppositiononry ito groups in syria. i have no information about what the cia may or may not be doing, but given the extent to which the u.s. has been frustrated in putting together an international response to the problem, i think the notion that we are in conjunction with turkey, doing things that are not public, is probably the case. it host: the president commented in mexico following the g-20 summit.

he took some questions from reporters and he was asked about rush of and the situation in syria. here is president obama. [video clip] >> i would not suggest that the u.s. and the rest of the international community are aligned with russia and china in their positions, but i do think they recognize the grave dangers of all-out civil war. i do not think they condone the massacres that we have witnessed. and i think they believe the that everybody would be better served if syria had a mechanism for ceasing the violence and creating a legitimate government. you know, what i have said to them is that it is important for

the world community to work with the u.n. and kofi annan on what a political transition would look like. my hope is that we can have those conversations in the coming week or two and that we can present to the world and the syrian people a pathway where by this conflict can be resolved. that i do not think it would be fair to say that the russians and the chinese have signed on. host: wayne merry, the comments of the president, how do we get to that point with russia and it's role with regard to sy ria? guest: this process redid the prospects for cooperation with the u.s. and beijing and moscow is very small.

the background of this from their point of view was the u.n. security council resolution on libya. he understood that had a very limited application and it was then used to justify military intervention by the western powers. the russians feel, and this is a view, that they were promised it would mean one thing and the resolution was used for a very broader purpose. they made it clear they are not going to go down that road again. the notion you are going to get broad international cooperation on syria in the near-term is very small. it russia has been very clear that they regard the assad regime as being responsible for the domestic violence in syria. their view is that the assad regime did not institute the

necessary reforms and it is responsible for finding a way out of the crisis in its own country with reforms and dialogue. whether or not that has any hope of success given the level of violence is a very different matter. host: our guest spent a quarter of a century in the u.s. foreign service. he is at the american foreign policy council. our next caller is from arkansas. .ood morning in iri caller: president obama was speaking to the president of russia and saying when he is reelected, he will have more flexibility. i am speaking to wayne merry, what concern is that to the

syrian-russian relationship? guest: that was a conversation with the former president in which the two were discussing ballistic missile defense and what obama said was that the u.s. was not willing to cut the russians any slack until after the election. this is a kind of conversation that takes place between heads of government, foreign ministers, all the time. this would happen to be on an open mike. -- mic. it reflects the reality that 2012 is a hugely important election year. it will be a year that will determine the starting point after urge the american election is decided for all of the future international relations including between the u.s. and russia. the lesson from that particular incident is the political leaders need to learn when to

keep their mouth shut when they are in public. host: new york. democrats' line. good morning. caller: a point and then the question. the guest mentioned american support for humanitarian causes. during the cold war, the u.s. supported some of the most brutal right-wing regimes all over the world. to say that russia supports sovereignty in the u.s. and the west supports human rights around the world is a bit absurd. let us look at the history. this whole thing with a side, he is a secular leader. what is the alternative? if assad goes, we may have an islamic government shaping up in syria, which would be a disaster for the west. libya, we all rushed to get rid of gaddafi. libya is in chaos.

we might have an islamic government taking place in libya. we have to be careful in terms of our policy options. number two, the u.s. has done a lot of things since the end of the cold war to provoke russia. host: i will stop you there. guest: i think the issue of what is the humanitarian policy is a very broad one. it was recently pointed out that whatever is going on in syria, the government has been broadly tolerant of religious freedom in a country with a multi- congressional i identity. saudi arabia still be at people for witchcraft. that government is also supported by the u.s. not one of the issues that is of great concern to russia is the future of the christian

community in syria. it is 10% of the population. it may be a surprise to many that this would be an issue for moscow but post-soviet russia has resumed much of the traditional russian orthodox concern for christian communities in the middle east. leadership is thee same in syria -- there are syrian orthodox is. the russians do care about them. it is something they do care about. the fact there has been a secular governments dominated by the minority in syria has been very good for the christians. it has been bad for the majority. the russians are more concerned

with this last remaining large christian community in that part of the world. host: if your joining us on a radio, our guest is wayne merry with the american foreign policy council. pennsylvania. good morning. thank you for waiting. caller: my question is in regards to the statement made about syria and turkey. i am sorry if i misunderstood. my husband is in turkey right now. he is turkish. he had a heart attack and he is undergoing surgery. i want to make sure i have this point right. insofar as turkey and syria, our president -- the position he is taking with syria is alienating

vladimir putin. did i get that right? u.s. and turkey obviously our allies. turkey's role is a regional power throughout the middle east and the black sea area has changed dramatically in recent years. for decades, turkey kept its hands out of issues in its neighbor states. now, they have a much more engaged country. it had terrible relations with syria for many years which then improved under the young girl assad. what is now happening is that turkey is being faced with a very severe challenge along the southern border in its relations with syria. the turkish aircraft were shot down by syria just a day ago under circumstances that are still being investigated.

i think what is very clear is the u.s. is conducting any kind of interventionist policy in syria and if is doing that, it must do that in cooperation with and through turkey because geographically, that is the only means that we would have of entry into the -- into syria. host: a much time did you spend in russia? guest: 6 years. host: when hillary clinton said we would hit the reset button, how is it doing? guest: russians do not like that term. that implies going back to the way things were under the clinton administration, which they feel was the time of russian humiliation. reset is a term used here in washington. it is a term of irony.

the russians have wanted to concentrate on a small number of issues where they feel there is potential for cooperation. the most important of those is the custodianship our two countries have of the nuclear all signals. there is a new treaty that takes care of a good part of that. there remains a major problems of the issues of ballistic missile defense. we have cooperation on afghanistan, which has exceeded my own expectations of what the russians would be willing to do in terms of making it easier for the u.s. to conduct that war in afghanistan without being essentially at risk to pakistan. on trade issues, they are finally getting in the wto. the relationship is a fairly narrow one. it is because russia is one of

the countries in the world that essentially sees the u.s. as too large and influential. there are a lot of countries in southeast asia which are now rallying to the u.s. because they are concerned about the growing power of china. russia is also concerned about growing chinese strength, particularly the naval power in the far east. for the time being, russia is one of those countries which tends to see its relationships with u.s. as being one in were ever the u.s. wins, comes at their expense. this makes for a relationship that its cooperative in a few areas, but mostly adversarial. host: daniel from how we eat. good morning. -- hawaii. the morning. caller: i want to respond to the previous caller. gaddafi was destroying the

country. the country of libya is still sorting things out. my question to you is -- the russians are using syria as a chip. the u.s. or the west should never trust those commies. pardon me., to see that ruthless dictator assad gone is in the interest of the west. next will be iran.

russia could care less about syria. they only care about their last ally. hopefully iran will be next. that is when the piece begins in the middle east. guest: i must correct you on the commie policy. whatever russia is today, it is not the soviet union. it there is less communism there than there is in paris or new delhi. some university cities in the u.s.. russia and is pursuing external policy that has roots in the 19th and 18th century. they have been involved in the u.s. there are a lot of other issues.

they have a religious christian components. this is an important element to russia. they look at the assad regime -- syria is not just about a family. it is about a political party. this is an army of up to around the minority. he has ruled the country in cooperation with christian minority. at the expense of the sunni majority. the russian concern is not that of the internal humanitarian situation in syria. i think they see that in terms of cause and effect. the effect is what they care about. that would be a syria that would be a much less reliable and stable component in a volatile position in the middle east. then the israelis have no love

lost for the regime in damascus. they have not had to fight a war with syria since 1973. if we were to get a revolutionary islamist regime in damascus, that might change. i think what the russians concern is that they would like the americans to think much more about what is going to come out at the end and not just focus on the present. host: twitter -- guest: as a former diplomat, i agree. one of the problems with using slogans in diplomacy is a very quickly el live their usefulness. their usefulness. i think reset is a term that has

long outlived its usefulness. i have written articles in which i have said that a at least as a concept, it should be retired. we should be thinking about our relations with russia in terms of those few areas in which we can really be cooperating and try to limit damage to areas we cannot. host: upstate new york. with professor wayne merry. caller: i just want to ask your guest if he thought it was morally or ethically right to offer assad -- guest: i do not feel i am in a position to make a moral judgment on that. the question is not just one person. he has very expensive clans. that clan has very extensive

intermarriage and other types of relationships. with the entire a leech. this is not just about one person or one family. it is about the party that has ruled in syria for decades. it is about the security services and large parts of the business community and the sunni majority. keep in mind this is not a matter of a handful of people dominating a country. this is a matter of very, very complex societies that have exploded demographically. there were 6 million people in 1970. now, 22 million. you have a huge problem of unemployment and lack of any kind of political liberty.

there is no question that the assad regime has created the problems that it is now facing. the russian government likes to think deicide regime can get itself out of this problem. i think that is wrong. i think it is probably wrong beyond that. the question of what will syria look like a year from now or two years from now is one that affects all participants. turkey. israel. russia. america. host: let us go to brandon joining us from grand rapids, michigan. good morning. caller: this is a dual question because i wanted to -- talk about republicans and democrats.

i will start off with the first. this is my question to republicans. how did they or how were they able to forgive the bush administration -- nobody addresses the fact that when obama took office, that that was already the highest in history because of republican leadership. the war totaled trillions of dollars. host: if you have a real quick question, we will have a chance for him to respond. caller: in reference to the u.n. in syria, do you feel that opposed to being the upstanding

leaders of the world and getting involved in almost every scenario where another country is falling, the u.s. is there should we take more of a stance like china or the other nations that seem to be growing their country but at the same time not getting involved in everybody's issues? host: u.s. involvement in foreign countries. guest: i do not think the u.s. should copy chinese models. i think the u.s. has taken on burton's all over the world and never put any of them down. we tend to have this burden mentality and forget -- about the prosperity of our citizens. it is profit -- ridiculous that the american taxpayer is still

subsidizing european securities. it we need to be much more conscientious about determining american interest nearly defined and ceasing to take the view that no one else is capable of looking after their own. we need to encourage other countries that have a well- developed economies to be much more forthright and be responsible for their own countries and their own areas. host: let me go back to your earlier point. >> i do not. -- guest: i do not. i think this is something russia would have avoided.

they would have preferred if the assad regime had instituted reforms that would have short circuit this crisis. the russians know this is a crisis in which their relations with the arab world have been compromised for many years to come. i think they realize they have painted themselves into a corner. they are now in a position where they're really cannot get out and they are hoping for the best in syria. the notion that what is going on in syria was in any way managed or initiative in moscow, i think that is not true. this is a relationship in which the syrians have perhaps been more direct in using the relationship with moscow for their benefits. host: orlando, florida.

good morning. caller: -- host: serious military threat to the u.s.? guest: the two countries maintain nuclear deterrence. we both have very large arsenals of nuclear weapons whose principal purpose is the deterrence of the other. russian non-nuclear forces are a shadow of what they were in the soviet era and they are principally oriented towards regional rivals. they're concerned about the stabilization of their neighbors who partaken islamic radicalism. they're concerned about any further efforts by nato to expand in their direction. i would not say russia is a

military threat to the u.s. keep in mind that is still a country that defines its security as being adversarial to the u.s. that is at the same thing as being an enemy. host: this is renee from mississippi. nato will look into the plane that was struck down by syrian forces. go ahead. one more time? caller: well, any one paying attention to this story knows that islamic fundamentalists are on the saudi payroll. turkey being trained in and are creating chaos in lebanon. their proxy for the u.s. government and nato -- the u.s.

transition from relative democracy to an expansionist state begging for world war iii. it is time we recognize the streets in pre-world war ii germany. thank you. guest: i cannot agree with your analysis about the american republic. and where it is in going. i have many reservations about american policy at home and abroad. one point i would pick up on is that the russians are very concerned about the saudi role in sponsoring various forms of sunni insurrection in a number of countries, including syria. there is no question that the conflicts in syria and have internal components and regional components.

the regional component is the rivalry between iran and a group of sunni monarchies led by saudi arabia. the to some degree, the fighting -- to some degree, the fighting in syria is about this rivalry between saudi and iranian power. i would not want anyone to think that the conflict in syria does not basically have domestic causes. even the russian government, which is very skeptical about saudi interventionism in other parts of the middle east, awknowledges that the steering problems were created by the government. host: how firmly in control is vladimir putin and how much support does he have within his country? guest: he is the man who has made the classic error in politics of not knowing when to leave. not knowing when is enough. i think if he had exited

political leadership this year, his reputation in russia would be largely a positive one. he is something of a control freak. he feels very strongly that he has a vision for how russia can be modernized and how russia can be put on the right path to development. my own feeling is that his vision is what and will not be realizable. he is a man who feels very strongly about what he considers to be his duty as leader of this country. what that has done is divide russia between majority of the population in medium-sized cities and outside of moscow, who are still supportive of a government role because this is a government that basically pays pensions and paychecks. and the centers of young,

international 21-st century modern russia. you have people who are much more cosmopolitan and dacey vladimir putin as a man who is holding russia back. -- dacey vladimir putin as a man who is holding pressure back. the host: wayne merry, thank you. please come back again. we will continue the conversation at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. we will be talking about the foreign and transportation bills in the week ahead for congress. a busy week in washington. we will also look into the impact of the beshear tax cuts. cuts.h era tax

that is all tomorrow evening -- tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. thank you for joining us. enjoy the rest of your weekend. have a great weekend. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> next "newsmakers" with john kline. then issa and holder discussed the justice department's fast and furious program. after that, the house oversight meeting on whether to side holder for contempt of congress. >> our guest on "newsmakers