year or in a year, for that matter. >> co-chair of the internet -- international internet caucus on legislation in the next congress and >> joining us this week is representative henry waxman, democrat of california. thank you for being here. to question him and joined us are kate hunter from bloomberg and lisa from "the los angeles times." >> the supreme court obviously rule to uphold the core of president obama's health care law. when it passed in 2010, democrats marketed it not as a tax. the court press pretty clear that they considered it a tax. do you? >> the heart of the bill is that we require everybody to get health insurance. because that spreads the cost

where services are needed for whatever number of people there are. the broad base of people were paying into the insurance pool. we had a mandate, but the court did not want to accept the idea of the mandate under the interstate commerce clause. they said that since the penalty for not getting health insurance is paying a tax, that was constitutional. that is fine. it is constitutional. under this law, we now have the affirmation that the law is constitutional. we have the assurances of 30 million americans that they will be able to get health insurance that has been denied them in the past. that people will not be denied insurance because of pre- existing medical conditions.

insurance practices that are pretty a regis, like discriminating against women, will not be permitted any longer. this bill is so important to all americans, particularly for those who have difficulty getting health insurance. >> politically, is it fine? we have heard from a number of people about this tax issue. it sounds like this will be the theme between now and november. the new law is a new health-care tax? what are the taxes? >> let me explain this. the only tax we are talking about is the penalty not to get health insurance. i think most americans want health insurance. it is the only rational thing to do. even if you are healthy, you could have an accident. things could change. people want health insurance. most people will get health insurance. for those who choose not to get health insurance, they can make that choice. they will have to pay a tax. that tax is a very small amount of money. i think they're talking about less than $10 billion over 10 years. >> how much is it for each

individual? >> that depends on their income. it will be a lot less than buying health insurance. it is a penalty, but through the tax code. the republicans say this is a tax. this is the biggest tax increase in american history. that sentiment is ridiculous. this is not a real tax increase. it is a requirement that everybody get health insurance. for those who do not, if they get sick and go to the emergency room, they should put in some money to help pay for their expenses because the rest of us have to pick it up. >> this is a requirement that is enforced by a tax? >> it is a requirement that everybody gets health insurance and if they choose not to, they have to pay a penalty. >> what about the small business taxes? these taxes on medical device manufacturers?

there are other taxes in the bill that republicans are really highlighting as part of their opposition. what are these other taxes? >> let us talk about the positive things out of the bill. they want to focus on that good. for small businesses, that is tax credit. to help them pay for the insurance for their employees. in order to raise money for the cost of the bill, which includes helping seniors to pay for their pharmaceuticals and preventive care and covering people under the medicaid program, there is a tax on some of the medical devices that was recommended to us by the group said the studies to improve the health care system. there is a tax on -- we want to discourage people from getting tans because it causes skin cancer. just like there is a tax on tobacco to discourage people from buying cigarettes.

higher income people will pay more for their medicare premiums. not as much as republicans propose in their budget. there are ways to raise revenue. all the taxes that will be paying for people not getting health insurance is like up third of the taxes that the republicans wanted to keep for the upper income of taxpayers. the millionaires and billionaires. they will keep that tax break in place. there went to scream about the tax that there would be a penalty people choose to pay it rather than get health insurance. >> . cantor said there is going to be a vote on july 11 -- eric cantor said there is going to be a vote on july 11. what is the democratic standard to deal with that?

when you voted this on 20 b.g.e. in january on 20 -- when you voted on this in january, there were less republicans. >> i do not know is that will change. there are more republicans. they will pass it. they said they want to repeal and replace and we do not know what they would replace it with. they want to repeal it. 30 million people are going to get insurance with this bill. there are a lot of americans to be the bill because they could lose their jobs. people are losing their jobs. when they have health insurance through their jobs, if they need insurance for a child or their family, they will not get it. this assures insurance. the supreme court said this is constitutional. let us to something to get people working. let to something to get the economy moving, not just rehash this issue over and over again.

try to blow it up and politicize at war. when this bill is in effect in 2014, the american people will be very, very happy and they will ask what was this about? for generations, people have been trying to get health care for all americans. we finally got it. let us move on. let us not carp about this issue and understand how helpful is to people. >> congressman, you are the ranking member on the energy and commerce committee. you were chairman at the time the bill was working its way through. is this an opportunity to brand it differently? you were instrumental in getting it passed. republicans seem to gain a lot of ground when it came to messaging in determining the bill's popularity.

>> they have. they call it the biggest tax increase in american history. absolutely false. they said it was filled with death. absolutely untrue. >> how do you make inroads? >> i am going to elect some of the public relations experts to figure this out. that is not my strength. my strength is to support good policy. i am proud of this bill. i am proud of the role i was able to play in getting it passed. having worked on health issues for decades, i know this is something that the american people have wanted. health care for all americans? we got hit. it is a hybrid model. it has a lot of republican ideas that are in the bill. it is a very modest bill with moderate implications. it accomplishes a goal. >> most people think passage of the health care law in 2010 contributed to democrats losing control of the house. do you think that trade-off was

worth it? >> if that was a trade-off. the president inherited a terrible economy. we were hemorrhaging jobs in 2008 when he got elected. but the time he took office in 2009, we had over 10% unemployment. we had the banks frozen. they could not deal with their assets. the economy has not recovered. i think this is a depression. the president is trying to get the economy moving. from the first day he took office, the republicans had given him no slack. they opposed everything he's done. the act as if he has created the deficit. under george bush, we fought two

wars without paying for them. we give tax breaks to the upper income. we gave an increase benefits under medicare and prescription drugs. that is very nice because that is a more cost-effective way, but we did not pay for that. we have these deficits. president bush inherited a balanced budget and by the time he left, we had 10% unemployment and a huge deficit and now the republicans are trying to blame it on president obama. they say he has not done enough. they don't help him get anything done. >> what would you like to see the president do? on the next month heading into november, do you want to see -- what do you want to see? do you want to see him talking about the economy? >> he has to talk about the economy. that is what is on people's minds. he has to stand from people who can say from their own experiences -- i read an article about a woman who had cancer and what a lifeline this is for

because if she lost her insurance, she could never get it again. the president needs to hear from parents who say their kids have asthma and they worry that their kids will never have health insurance because they will always be discriminated against. they're people cannot purchase insurance because they cannot afford it. because they do not have jobs. such low-paying jobs. they don't have enough money. this bill helps people purchase health insurance if they cannot afford it. it stops discrimination against them so they can buy it. for seniors, it is a terrific bill that helps lower drug costs. for everybody, preventive health care services will not cost anything because we want to urge people to do that. >> let me ask you if governor romney were to win the white house and republicans were to gain control, how hard or easy would it be for republicans to use that majority to take down the health care bill through this process?

>> i think they could do it. i think the american people have to understand that. if they vote for romney and the republicans to have control of the house and senate, there is a good chance the health care bill will be wiped out and all of these benefits will be wiped out. the republican budget proposes to take medicare and tell seniors that he will have the cost shifting onto you. we will give you a voucher that will not be enough to buy a policy. you have to add your own money to it. medicaid, health care for the very poor, they will tell the states you do not have to do anything. this is the only amount of money

we will give you. the states will have to tell a lot of people at the very bottom, very poor people who are often disabled, that you are not going to get care any longer. they want to keep tax cuts for billionaires'. this is going to be a very different country if romney and the republicans win -- >> so much of what democrats propose do not happen until later. 2014. all americans will need to be on a policy whether they buy a three exchanges or access it through medicaid. do you have any regrets that the way the law was such that the benefits happen in the subsequent years? >> the fees don't happen first. a lot of benefits happen first. seniors are these seeing lower drug prices. people can get their kids injured under their own policy all the way up to age 26. no insurance company can discriminate against a child for health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. we will apply that for everybody. people are already enjoying the benefits of this bill. there is a disconnect. people get benefits and then they say, the government does

not to reading for me. the tea party people complain the loudest. if you ask them whether they want social security or medicare cut, they say of course not. we cannot rely on government. that belongs to us. these are government programs and we need these government programs. people rely on them. they may not be there if the republicans will not establish the safety net efforts. >> how do you get that message to stick? we have heard this from you for the last few years. what changes now? how does the president go out now and deliver that message and get it hurt in a different way? even today, as we head into the weekend, republicans were far

more eager to come out and talk. >> they have fox news will give their point of view all the time. they have rush limbaugh who continues to be an echo chamber for the republicans. they are anxious to mislead people. the only thing we can hope is that we do get responsible press, like we have on c-span, to get the story out so people can make informed judgments. when they hear from their families and neighbors, they did not want to be in a situation where they cannot buy health insurance. we have 15 million people in this country that can not get health insurance. this bill will at least discover 30 million.

there is hope that people can get a benefit that is a basic thing. anybody can get sick. anybody can be in an accident. when people do not have insurance and the end up in the emergency room, we all pay a penalty for that. >> we have about 10 minutes left with representative waxman. >> turning to a different topic, energy, things this time of year, we hear a lot about gas prices. what congress will do about rising gas prices. this year, that is not the front burner issue. >> it was a couple of months ago because we had very high gasoline prices because of the price of oil having gone up. we are dependent on the world's price of oil.

if there is a disruption in south america or somewhere else, and with competition with other emerging countries for oil supply, we are faced with a very high price. the way to deal with that is of course drill in the u.s. develop more oil. more importantly, get away from our dependence on oil. one of the reasons we did not have as hard hit this time was that the cars are using less oil because we have made them more fuel-efficient. in the future, we expect to make them more fuel-efficient. the republicans voted on the house floor on a partisan basis to say that fuel efficiency of cars should not be regulated by the government. it was not done until the government put regulations in place. republicans have made such a severe attack on our environmental issue. they want to protect oil and coal.

when it comes to greenhouse gases and climate change -- pick up the newspaper. you hear about the fires in colorado. the hurricanes. but routes. we are seeing the results of greenhouse gases in a climate change and the republicans -- and climate change and the republicans are refusing to do anything. they -- science. -- they reject science. >> on another energy topic. the keystone pipeline. president obama is going to sign the highway transportation bill and the bill to keep stallone's low. what was not in there was the keystone pipeline.

the pipeline from canada down through the gulf of mexico to carry that material. is this the end of the keystone pipeline? will it come back after the election? there are a lot of democrats polling for it. >> the president was told he had to approve it. he said, i am already. i want all the facts. he did not do it. the republicans want to force this pipeline to be approved without getting all the information. not even knowing the route it was going to take. the problems many as of has is it as to the greenhouse gases, the carbon emissions, when they take this dirty oil in canada and try to process it so it can go through the pipeline. we are using more energy to develop oil than we would just burning oil. then they want to put in a pipeline and we want to make sure the pipeline is safe. that same company has had pipelines that have had nothing

but problems. when pipelines week, the leak into offers. -- they leaked into offers. a huge portion of this country can be poisoned. i do not like the pipeline. i think it is not worth it. the president has not said nel. he has asked to get more information. he may well decide to go ahead with it because he is under a lot of pressure. it is not the end of the story. it is the end of the republicans' efforts to make this into a big fat special- interest earmark. that is wrong policy. >> sounds like it was something that might go over to the lame duck time of congress. what is your take on the lame duck? do you think that once the election comes and goes, those last weeks of congress will bring resolution to these issues?

the end of the bush era tax cuts? the military spending cuts coming in january? will congress be able to tackle these issues? >> congress has to or the economy will go back into a recession. >> you could punt. >> we may end up doing that. we cannot let everything expire into what the cuts go into effect without recognizing serious consequences. understand how we get to the situation. republicans, a year ago, held up the routine raising of the debt ceiling by assuring the people we owed money to that we would pay our debts. they said we're not going to pay the debts. they negotiate with the president and could not reach an agreement. finally, they punted. they set up a special committee and they failed. the grand bargain failed. they put something in place that will automatically cut defense to the place where our national security is in place.

it will cut domestic programs. many programs like education programs for the safety net. middle income-low-income people. the tax cuts are set to expire. i voted against that bill because this is no way to govern. we just do not hold things hostage, which is what the republicans have done a couple of times. then, we end up with automatic actions that can hurt the economy. you have to come to terms and compromise. we have had republicans who have been so rigid and partisan that they have not looked for ways to get together for the benefit of the country. they have only look to advance their political advantages. >> there was a report that lawmakers are considering the discussion about delaying the automatic cuts until march. to give congress some more time after the election to sort

things out. i am wondering if that is something you could get behind and also what you think would change between now and march. >> good question. we kicked this can down for a year and almost a year-and-a- half -- almost a year-and-a- half. >> do you think the end of the year would be too much of a jolt to the economy? allowing the taxes to go up -- >> to let everything go up -- >> people would have a tax increase and having the spending cuts going to affect. would you be willing to keep those tax rates from the president bush era in place as part of a deal to keep things going? >> look, i am willing to look at different options and to try to reach a compromise. i know we have republicans in power in the house.

we will see how things go after the election. even after the election, you have to compromise. for some of the republicans, they think compromise is a dirty word. i think it is the only way to do what is right for the american people. you cannot say it is my way or the highway. you have to look for common ground. that is why we are in the mess we are in. >> what is your prediction for how many seats democrats win? i assume you predict they would win some. >> i think people are so angry at the congress. i think our opinion poll is 12% -- historical low levels. if they connect the dots to realize that congress's republican-controlled -- they have to hold responsible the people that put us in business. to do that, i think we will have a lot of seats picked up by the democrats. enough to give us majority. if we have majority, i think we have to reach out to the

republicans and work with them, not act like the minority doesn't count. we are all elected. we are all supposed to do what is right for the people. >> do you want to comment on the contempt vote against the attorney general? >> i thought that was despicable. that was a partisan. so negatively partisan. they did not have to hold the attorney general in contempt. he was willing to give them what they wanted. that which they ask for. i chaired that committee. we were trying to get the information about people who disclosed the name of a cia agent, which is unthinkable. we did not hold people in contempt when the president said that some of this was not appropriate for congress to gather.

we have to respect that. this was disrespectful of the law. disrespectful of trying to reach an accommodation. it was a way for republicans to score political points at the expense of the attorney general. i thought it was a pretty silly way to do with. >> were you surprised that the speaker allowed chairman issa to go ahead? >> i think he was reluctant. then he said, maybe it will help the republican cause. there are other things in the republican cause, such as the cause of the american people. there is nothing wrong with doing an investigation. they should get all the information that is inappropriate to do the investigation. then, they still wanted to hold them in contempt. that was just playing fast and loose. that was abuse of power.

>> congressman henry waxman. thank you for being on "newsmakers." >> thank you for having me. >> staying with us for some analysis are kate hunter and lisa mascaro. what did you make of the congressmen's take on this? >> i think it is really interesting that he said the health care bill is a requirement that is enforced by a tax. when democrats were pushing this through congress, they were very adamant that this was not a tax. the court's ruling left not a lot of wiggle room. he basically acknowledged that is a tax.

>> republicans are seizing on the tax issue and making a fairly clear that that will be a cornerstone of the argument against the health care bill moving forward to november. i think we still see democrats do not have a response to that. congressman waxman gave us a sort of framework that could be helpful for the democrats as they make their arguments, which is, you know, it is similar to what happened in this country with tobacco. congressman waxman was at the forefront years ago to put regulations on tobacco and to begin what many would consider very high taxes on cigarettes. they are taxes that many americans do not seem to mind. then, the congressman acknowledged that he is not the pr guy. there are others that will be working on the message. whether they take a message like a tree where he put out there

or not, we will see. it seems what it now it will be hard. >> do you have a sense on a will take the lead? >> we do not know if the democrats really want to run on this issue. we have seen senator reid over the past few days. let's move on, the court has made a decision. leader nancy pelosi did the same thing. how much do democrats really want to talk about this issue? >> democrats will be talking more about the economy. there is a sense that part of what happened when they lost things in the senate. they did not have a strong message on health care or the economy. economy.