senior fellow from the center for american progress. washington journal is next. it is "washington journal" for july 14, 2012. a three-hour program. in the paper several letters have reacted to the decision by close clothes designer ralph lauren to use clothes manufactured in china to clothe the u.s. olympic athletes. the story in the first 45 minutes, your thoughts on the larger idea of the term "made in america" and if it matters to you as far as things made in america and if you make an effort to purchase things only made in the united states or if it doesn't matter to you. here is how to respond. you can call on the numbers on t

bottom of the screen. made in the u.s.a., does it matter. you can reach out on social media. twitr.com/cspan twitter.com/cspanwj. facebo facebook.com/c-span and journal@cspan.o journal@cspan.org. the larger issue associated with this decision by the clothing manufacturer ralph lauren to clothe the olympic team. garments made in china. here is a picture that set off this with four olympic athletes off what ng showing the designs will be. there is another picture for you as well. as far as the legislative reaction, it says now an american label has recognized opportunity and offered to make them here in the u.s.a. and in two weeks flat that would please

democrats from new york, new jersey and pennsylvania who also introduced a bill friday that would require the u.s.a. olympic committee to outfit them sewn or assembled in the united states. they have hit a range of nerves from uncertainty about the national identity with no national dress to economic worries and patriotism. on the jump page more about the idea of made in the u.s.a. and our question this morning. if it matters to you as far as the term or if you buy made in the u.s.a. "washington post" reports since the debate over where the clothes were made highlights an ongoing unemployment tragedy with political ramifications for election 2012. loss of manufacturing jobs and last month the sector contracted for the first time since 2009 being the relatively bright spot in the american economy.

again, made in the u.s.a., does it matter to you? here is how you can call. twitter is available to you and as far as the e-mails, if you want to e-mail, that is journal@cspan.org. before we go to the phones i want to show you one reaction from a member of congress. this is senator harry reid who made comments taking a look at the on forms themselves and here is his reaction to what should be done with the current uniforms made in china. [video clip] >> i think that the olympic committee should be ashamed of themselves and embarrassed. i think they should take all the uniforms and put them in a big pile and burn them and start over. if they have to wear nothing but something that says u.s.a. painted by hand that is what they should wear. we have people in america in the

textile industry and we've people in the textile industry jobs and the olympic committee is wrong. host: that is one reaction. we will have others as we go on this morning. most importantly from you as you call in on the issue, again the numbers are on your screen. oakland, california. andre, democrats line. caller: well, i think that to read it correct and it is just a slap in the face that a company so prominent would put process over pride in america. and we have a recession and to the degree we are doing everything we can to bring people back to work, i think that should be it. and people wearing the u.s.a. symbol, they are saying that we love our country. will, if we love our country we should try to put people to work. host: as far as the idea of made in the u.s.a. what do you think

it?t does it matter to you as far as things you purchase that they have to be manufactured here? caller: you know, we killed off everything that is made in america so i'm constantly looking to see clothes, a screwdriver, hammer, whatever. we are killing ourselves. we are being shortsighted. we buy at wal-mart for a dollar but if i pay $1.25 i could have somebody making living wages and healthcare and bring back the middle class. but we are so consumer driven we want the cheapest thing but it is driving down our standards and we wonder what happened. host: more pictures of the uniforms shown in the passengers of the "washington post." we will go to the next call. st. augustine, florida. kathleen. republican line. caller: i agree with everybody, i think it is disgraceful that we outsourced uniforms, we have

thousands of small manufacturing and sewing companies here in the country that would have been delighted and proud to have made the uniforms and not made a lot of money with them. i just think it is terrible and i agree with the caller before me. i do the very best i can to find things made here and if it is another 10 or 15 or 25 cents i will gladly pay it. but i think we should look at union members who want a high wage and shopping in wal-mart and not buying american. host: when you look for things made in the u.s.a. what do you find? caller: just the other day i was in w everyoinn dixie buying napd there is a small company in a small town near us manufacturing

paper napkins. and i was happy to buy them. host: lancaster, pennsylvania, you are next. john, independent line. caller: congress has no limits on the amount of hypocrisy they have. if they really wanted to get down into this they should put sponsored logos all over their suits every day and show the people how many multinational corporations they are receiving monday from and in effect being bought off by. so, this is kind of nuts. i agree with the other callers. waorbd have had these made in the u.s. and left whoever the manufacturer's logo off of the uniform. having that ralph lauren polo thing makes us look as crazy as ever. think of made ou in the u.s.a.? caller: i think it is great. i look through racks if i'm buying clothing to find something at least it is not in

china and maybe it is in the western hemisphere, not a country that is a totalitarian country like china. but it is pretty tough. as far as other things, yeah, i will pay more for u.s.a. stuff. i mean, it is our country. host: those are some of the opinions this morning. again our question for you is as far as the idea of made in the u.s.a. does it matter to you. that is what we want to engage you on for the next 35 minutes. you can call us on the line or send as you tweet or e-mail. one tweet we got steven harrison this morning. here is what he had to say. host: specifically on the clothing incident, maybe the larger issue of made in the u.s.a. you can weigh in. we talked about congressional reaction. house speaker boehner weighing in when asked by reporters specifically on what went on

with the decision to clothe u.s. him athletes in clothes made in china here is his reaction. [video clip] >> we want to ask you about the report last night the u.s.a. olympic team going to be wearing chinese made uniforms in the opening ceremony and your thoughts about going it china and this business. >> you would think they would know better. host: that is his reaction. we go next to seattle, washington, mike on the democrat lane. caller: made in the u.s.a. very good question. to me it is not necessarily about -- the problem is not whether it is made in the u.s.a. that is the overall problem. but if you look a little closer it is the consumption of very inexpensive products. so, i think this ralph lauren story is going to start the wheels turning for us to really

set up some legislation to have things made here in the united states. if you look a little deeper, what you will find is that a lot of people are addicted to inexpensive products. so, somehow we as a country have to find the balance of products that are made here in the united states to be competitive on a cost basis within the stores. because we could say, hey, you know, we want it made in the u.s.a. but i can tell you if you have a product that is side by side, the united states product, let's say costs $100, the product from china costs $25 and they are the exact product. a smart consumer will go for the less expensive one. so it is a great thing that ralph lauren has done to have people's minds stirring.

but the key deals with this obsession with the lowest price and until away get that right, you know, i don't think many of those manufacturing jobs and textile jobs will come back here because it is -- much is trained to go for the least expensive price. host: this is a e-mail from twitter who says i found a made in the u.s.a. i was so shocked i bought it. next call is from washington, jeff, republican line. caller: i bought a camera made in the united states, made out of wood, great product. love it. and i always buy american and always look for labels. and it is always the high end product that i make sure are in the united states. host: what do you think about the olympic athletes as a story? what is your reaction to it? caller: i hate to admit it but i

agree with harry reid. host: franklin, texas, terry, independent lanine. you will have to turn down the television. go ahead. caller: ok. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: we are talking about the clothes the olympians are wearing, that is just reality. our government outsources everything. even the phone i'm talking to you on is not made in america. it is made by an american company but not made in america. i could pay a little more for it was made in america and. good about it. i can't by anything that says made in america. until we get things made in america this country is not going to get better. you have a middle class that needs to work and we work in

manufacturing jobs and building things and there's nothing being manufactured over here. it doesn't seem right that you can outsource these jobs and expect these people to buy these goods. we have to buy cheaper stuff because we don't make any money any more. host: do you bother to check labels for the made in the u.s.a. sign? caller: it is very hard to find made in the u.s.a., anything. host: you may wonder what classifies made in the u.s.a. the f.t.c. has oversight on this and they have guidance on what it means. here is a little bit of what they say on their web site. the question they pose from the document is what factors does the commission consider to determine whether a product is all or virtually all made in the u.s.a. they say its final assembly and processing must take place in the u.s. and then it considers other factors including how much it is total manufacturing cost

could be assigned to parts and process and however removed think foreign contact is. in some instances only a small portion of the total manufacturing consists are attributable to foreign processing but that represents a significant amount of the product's overall processing. the same can be true for some fortune parts. they give an example of a company produces proceed pan barbecue grills in nevada. the major components are the goes burn are and housing each of which is made in the u.s.a. the real knobs and tubing are imported from mexico and unqualified made in the u.s.a. claim is not likely to be deceptive because the knobs and tubing make up a negligible portion of the product and are insignificant parts of the final product. they give other examples if you want to go to the f.t.c. website to get their take on what it means for made in the u.s.a. does it matter to you if it is made in the u.s.a.? that is what we're asking you to comments on. cleveland, ohio, melvin,

democrat lan line. caller: i have a comment on the things from china. i'm a vietnam veteran and i went and bought some united states of america flag to hang around my house and they are made in china and that is so degrading that a country like this has to send everything coming from china over to here. and i'm confused when they say you are either rich or middle class. as far as i'm concerned there is no middle class. you are either rich or poor. host: "washington post" has this congress is outraged limited to the raising of ties and scarfs. ongress hasn't suckggested spaulding basketballs balls or the computers they are using all of which are manufactured abroad and lauren

host: with the olympics summer games coinciding with the elections we may want our athletes dressed in clothing that evokes a certain former massachusetts governor. caller: i don't know why these politicians are faking this outrage. i have been going to a v.a. hospital 12 years and all the clothing you buy at the v.a. and p.x. alleys and military post are made in indonesia and china. it has been since reagan was president. all the politicians know full well where the stuff is made. and they are just -- this is just a phony outrage like there is all a surprise and they didn't know anything about it. and it has been going on for

yea years. they are just hypocrites. i'm shocked that they would try to fool the people like that. host: what do you think of the idea of those who want to stay committed to big products made in the u.s.? caller: i think they should just boycott all foreign made products and stick to the u.s. products. you get cheaper stuff there but pretty soon you won't have a job -- that is all you can buy. you buy cheap stuff around take jobs from our country. host: we had several saying that is not easy to pick out the purely made in the u.s.a. caller: no, it isn't. but if you take the time to look you can do it. i was just in a grocery store and they had mushrooms there that were 25 cents can cheaper but made in china and for another 25 cents i could get the mushrooms from pennsylvania. host: is it a regular habit to

look for the label and buy only with that label? caller: yes, it is. i earned my living in this country and i should support this country in any which i can. and not be like the politicians act shocked when i see something made in china. host: that is gene from jackson, mississippi. some other things in the paramedics, jpmorgan on the front page of the financial times their trade loss estimated $5.8 million. they revealed the loss in the london office swollen to $5.8 million and opened fresh questions into disclosure to investors. the bank says it has clawed become millions of dollars paid to traders who caused the losses. it was restarted saving previous earnings on fears that they were covered up by traders reporting their position too positively.

host: you may have heard what is going on over concerning europe as far as global investment rate or global rates are concerned. when it comes it european and other banks. this is a story in the financial times. the barclays employee who was told of libor rigging in 2008, it says he told the federal reserve bank in new york in 2008 that the bank and other institutions were underreporting submissions on the key lending gauge known as libor to play down the perception of financial stress after the collapse of bear stearns. after barclays spoke to the new york fed initiated a series of meetings in april and may with other agencies including the

treasu treasury, tim geithner who was under fire for oversight in the rate setting mechanism and he set a memo to the bank of england which recommended reforms on how the rate was set up at the world's largest financial institutions. goes on from this and it is on the financial times website. ohio, nick, independent line. caller: good morning. yeah, i was outraged when i heard about the olympic uniforms made in china and every day we cry that we don't have jobs in this current and then people still pay taxes and we buy things in china. it is so outrageous. i don't know what congress is talking about based on this. i believe it should be some

subpoena find who is responsible for the olympic organization because i believe it is actually trick and america is suffering from being out of jobs and some are dying from the lack of money because they don't have a job. and then you take money from the people in the country and they give it to china. i don't understand. that is why i want congress to subpoena them and hear what the president is talking about. host: do you mean subpoena the u.s. olympic committee? >> yes. see who did all of this. it is the people up there. they continuously kill the middle class and they argue that every day it is proof.

host: the very last sentence of the write-up in the daily news on this story says the ralph lauren promised friday to make union firms for the 2014 winter games in the u.s. there is a picture of the designer and the uniforms you saw earlier. you will see them as we look at the things associated with the story. manhattan, new york, you are next. craig, democrat line. caller: i would like to say before everybody starts beating up on ralph lauren, he has been a big supporter of a charter school in east harlem which school appreciates all of his donations. besides, that i know he has a very american type of promotion that he does to sell his clothes so, probably that is why he was selected and it talks about his clothes are very american, built for the american body. but it is a global economy.

we don't want to pull the rug just because of a few things that are made overseas. everybody has to eat. even in china. that is my comment. host: the idea that the larger issue of made in the u.s.a. and does it matter to you? caller: i think we still have the largest economy in the world so something must be made here even if it is mostly wall street money schemes. but we are still doing things because this is the largest economy. so it is a share and share world. we don't want anybody starving around the world and wanting could come here and take what we have so it is bear to share what we have. host: plano, texas, this is stan, republic lin. >> good morning, everyone. let me say that i have spent an entire career in the manufacturing sector, and made in the u.s.a. simply doesn't mean what it once did. it would be more accurate in

many, many cases to say made in the u.s.a. by illegal aliens. i have seen it over the last 15 and 20 years. it is outrageous. so, either way, even if you buy something made in the u.s.a., it will have been produced with illegal alien labor. so what is the difference? if it is chinese or if it is mexican, it is still a phony claim it say that something is made in the u.s.a. when it is not made by american citizens. host: as far as your habits when it comes to buying things does it concern you that so much that you do that? caller: yes, i look for made in the u.s.a. label when i shop for just about anything. but i'm not into self-delusion. i know, for example, most of these american textile firms who have complained that they should have been given the right to make these uniforms, you can bet

they are all populated with illegals. so, made in the u.s.a. doesn't really mean you are supporting american labor. you are supporting mexican liberal. host: the u.s. athletes have weighed in. "u.s.a. today" says they defended the brand as a global world we live in. one said i would say there are bigger issues than where ralph lauren has the clothes made. lagrange, texas, this is mike on the independent line. caller: good morning. let's think back to when all of this supply side economics started. the argument on the other side was we can't all make a living delivering pizza back and forth to each other. now, 25 to 30 years later we are about in that situation. if you will remember when we went to war against iraq we were

bike the boots and hats and gloves and we were buying them from china. so, the only thing we can do in this country -- and my advice to occupy, who has no, really, uh -- gosh, it slipped my mind what i'm trying to say -- they need to start their own manufacturing. cut out the middle men and cut out the $300 million a year c.e.o. and start their own manufacturing and i will promise you that these multinationals will pour back to america to compete with these guys if they would just start doing their own manufacturing. because you can't find a toothbrush made in the united states of america. almost nothing. so, we are going to have to start from the bottom up to turn all of this around and it is that simple. romney says i'm going to put

everybody back to work. doing what? what is he going to put them to work doing? delivering more pizza? because there is nothing left. we just got to start from the bottom up and turn it around. host: "wall street journal" their front page lead story leads with a settlement reached between visa, mastercard and retailers over the use of credit cards to pay for things. the settlement is a victory about $6 million, victory for retailers who will get more control over how people pay and removes the electrical thre -- thre threat. it is the latest victory for customers who have recently logged significant wins to reduce their cost of accepting plastic. the agreement reached after months of negotiation calls for visa, mastercard it cut eight months the fees customers pay.

they value the relief at $1.2 billion in addition to the settlement. the cash portion is to settle merchant claims of price fixing. jacksonville, there. organic. saul, democrat lin. caller: i shop on a military base occasionally and just about everything i see on the military base is from china. and from mexico and other places. but one of the things that really gripped me is when i found out that lamb that was brought in from australia. all the good lamb we used to have is no more. it used to come from montana, but now we don't have any. thank you. host: vivian from twitter says

this. host: elizabethtown, kentucky. keith, republican line. caller: organic. i would like to commend mr. ralph lauren for donate being his time and services in making those on forms. i think it is important to note that the united states olympic committee is privately funded, doesn't receive government support and doesn't receive government funds. so i just spent a great deal of time this past two weeks watching where the house of representatives tried to repeal obama care for the 33rd time and i'm confident that i saw some suits at the podium that were made by kong tailers. and i'm just can't imagine the hypocrisy of them and i have an idea to help rebuild the garment industry in the united states.

since there is only 45 working days left in the congressional session the next time one of your members of congress comes to your town for a town hall meeting ask him to slip off the coat and see what the label inside their shirt and jacket is. how do you think this story became a story? caller: well, you know it is just the matter of fact that we're part of a global economy. in central economy after nafta we lost almost 4,000 textile jobs in less than a year. we used to make on forms and clothing. i go to the local wal-mart and you look through the racks of shirts it is south america, central america, asia, east european countries. i would hope we have more to concentrate on this presidential election and poor economy and jobless rate than to fixate on on firms. host: the caller mentioned nancy pelosi. she weighed in on this issue.

[video clip] >> we take great pride in our olympic athletes. i tried to watch as many of the trials as possible. i can't wait to stay up all night to see as much as possible. we take such pride in them and they work so hard. they represent the very best and they are excellent and so beautiful and they should be in clothes that are made in america. host: well continue with this topic for 10 or 15 more minutes. in the national section of "new york times" looking at a review done on the federal level taking a look at the topic of post-traumatic stress disorder with military james dao writes that the first comprehensive review of the program in service members a panel of sports recommended friday the defense department and department of veterans affairs expand access to services particularly for performance in rural areas in the national guard and reserve. lower it says that is nearly 400

page report represents the first half of a multi-year review of t the broad range of screening and care services provided by the two departments. a second report will be released in 2014 to assess emerging treatments. become into the details which you have the story would be toward the bottom, it goes on to say that in describing barriers to care a panel noted that both departments had hired thousands of held care providers in recent years but were short of the personnel they needed. other obstacles included inaccessibility of service in rural areas, combat zone fear of service members their krrs would be hurt if they sought treatment and lack of time and busy schedules for the treatment. the broader use of telemedicine could help expand treatment in inaccessible areas and called on both departments to consider alternative therapy like yoga

with widely accepted ones. long beach, new york, next, joe on the independent line. the topic is made in the u.s.a. and if it matters to you. host: good morning. so much to say. harry reid being shocked reminds me of that scene from casablanca i'm shocked to find gambling in this casino. how dis-enginous. what we have to do is refocus. we have been led down the garden path and tell us about global economy. anybody that runs for office the first question is are you going to promote an american economy or global. if they say global they are out. we don't vote for them. regardless of party. i had so much more to say. host: when it comes to you personally -- caller: me personally. here is another thing. i go in the super market. into a drugstore and they have

self-check out machines there. and i'm waiting in line for the person behind the counter and she says to me why don't you go over this. i said because i'm trying to save your job. she didn't get it. she didn't get it. i don't knwant machines working. americans have to refocus. host: when it comes to you and made in the u.s.a. caller: well, i'm limited. there's not much. i try. mostly it is not going it the store and looking for american, it is looking at our politicians, which one signed the trade agreements to send the jobs overseas. i found it to be a disgrace that oba obama, with 20 million americans out of work, signs a bill granting amnesty to the illegals. let them take the jobs. americans don't need the jobs. host: baltimore, mike, democrat l line. caller: i grew pickup a

midwestern city famous for high quality manufacturing and as a kid i remember the claims of everyone around me, you know, made in milwaukee, the best. now i go home and they say that is over. all the firms are gone. that pride in workmanship is gone. but what has changed is we are globalized. so, wisconsin is just one node in a global economy. so, we have to get back in a global economy to where we were. we have to actually do what germany does. capture the highest value added parts of the commodity chain in the global economy. i think we can do it. host: "new york times" a story page a-8 that the headline says u.s. charges men on the iran embargo that the justice department unsealed the indictment of two men for conspiracy to violate the embark

against iran by trying to smuggle restricted equipment and materials suitable for goes centrifuge to enrich uranium in the country. they had been made in the united states. a 24-page indictment handed down accuse accused them of working together and with others to buy the materials including 20 tongs of high strength steel and aluminum alloy rods, radioactive materials measuring equipment and vacuum system equipment. the indictment sheds light on the procurement networks and importance of keeping u.s.a. nuclear related material from being exploited by iran. the assistant attorney general for national security said this in the statement. queens, new york, better than, republican line. caller: i'm very much for

purchasing american because it in one form or another for jobs, which is good for the country, which is good for me. i would be willing to pay more, all things being equal, for a product made in the united states and consider a self-imposed tax on myself. the problem is that there is no way really to find a complete list. i know for a fact that new balance is an american shoe that is made in the united states. but if someone were to take the initiative to list all of the companies that make products that -- si, air conditioners, and made them convenient for me i would check this out and i would purchase in that manner.,d

made them convenient for me i would check this out and i would purchase in that manner.a, air and made them convenient for me i would check this out and i y, air conditioners, t manner. and made them convenient for me i would check this out and i would purchase in that manner. cent a viewer says the 99 store is all chinese product. allentown, michigan. jack, independent line. caller: i have been a coach from junior high to ncaa division i and it makes me sick -- it makes me sick to watch ralph lauren make all of that money and on the backs of americans overseas and competing for the united states olympic team. it is just sicken iing. host: when you were a coach how did you handle uniform purchasing? were they united states bought? caller: how do i know?

i was the coach. i wasn't the athletic director. host: so, mr. learn says starting 2014 he will start making uniforms for the him athletes manufactured in the united states. what is your reaction to that? caller: my reaction is that it is all about money. that is all it is. it is all about making profit and money and profit is not a dirty word. but -- but -- you have to get by the "but." host: middletown, connecticut. angela, democratic line. caller: i hear people say the product is cheaper and that is good. it is not good. you have to replace it sooner. it is usually garbage. women will understand. i bought a bed spread made in north carolina 15 years ago and beautiful.is

now it is garbage. wal-mart encourage companies to manufacture products in china so they can sell it cheap. they attack out live insurance policies on the workers so wal-mart makes money when you die. us.t: so -- she left murphy, north carolina. john, republican line. caller: i want to make a comment on the world trade organization. what did people think they were doing when they were having meetings here 20 years ago? and we used to have the international ladies garment workers union. i haven't seen a commercial for th that. ross perot was warning everybody that your jobs are going to be sucked out of this country. and the way they did it, they just removed all tariffs off all products. maybe if we were to put the tariffs back and try to

normalize some things we would spur some industry. right now, you take a look and i don't think we have enough performance working making a salary to pay for the american product. host: we will talk about governor romney's campaign and the last couple of days between his campaign and the president's campaign. one bit in the daily news rick santorum campaigned for governor romney saturday trying to foster relationle .

host: more about this at 8:30 this morning with charlie hurt of the washington times". about t we will taulk issues concerning the nation as governors approach it state by state. later on a new report taking a look at education with the question if schools are too easy for students. there is a report that was released this week. that is in the course of the program. after a couple more calls. clarksville, tennessee, catholic ra -- kathleen. caller: nobody is really talking about the fact that america has never forgotten about slavery.

they did it to the blacks. they brought them over here and now they are doing it to the mexicans and chinese. it is not only about us not having jobs. it is about american companies looking and seeker being out slavery. because if they weren't looking and seeking out slavery will are plenty of people that want to work but if they can get the product made for two cents versus $6 that is where the dice is rolled. that is why so many are out of work because of company greed. i don't think anybody ever thought about that. america just will not let slavery go. people should be outraged to know they are using mexicans and chinese people -- and even korea or wherever. you go into some of the high end places that cost you lots of money for products and they are coming from different countries all over the world.

there's nothing being made in america and it is because of greed. and people that have had slave ry backgrounds should be outraged. that is really where the naacp or whatever it is, that is where they should be focused is why is it that america is still seeking out slavery? host: atlanta the last call. caller: i want to say to the comment to the lady african-americans are outraged. we are voting for barack obama because the so-called job creators are the ones that are taking the jobs overseas. they are the ones that are the corporate greed that got into the republican party through bigotry and using big g bigot idea ideals. they are taking your jobs.

the mexicans come here taking the jobs and the mexicans are being hired by american corporate people. host: made in the u.s.a. what is your thought on that? does it matter to you? caller: yes, it matters to me because the products are being shipped overseas and could put food in people's mouths here. the job creators are making more money tend being to the dollars over there. even though they have made record profits her for years they got greedy and decided we will go to overseas. host: that is the last call on that topic. coming up in the program, the incoming chairman of the national governors association will be you are guest jack markell. he joins us from williamsburg at the n.g.a. conference. we will talk about issues there

and then mitt romney responds to his attacks for his tenure on bain capital. we will talk about that and other topics on campaign 2012. going in the next segment we want to tell you about the news makers program. kevin brady is the republican from texas the vice chairman of the joint economic committee. he talks about several things in the interview with reporters. one thing he spoke about is republican opposition to president obama's tax plan that was announced money specifically to preserve tax breaks for families earning less than $250,000. he addressed his concerns about social security, medicaid and entitlement programs. [video clip] >> president obama made the case for extending almost all of the tax cuts scheduled to expire. he said republicans agreed we should extend tax cuts for 98% of people. you want 100. he would prefer 98. he said let's do what we agree

on. what is wrong with that approach? >> i think it creates more uncertainty for the economy. we have a struggling economy. we are three years after recession ended and we have the worst recovery since world war ii. this will yet more uncertainty in an arena we don't need that and it doesn't some the problem. that is the key point. it doesn't solve the economic problem. it won't be good to fight off this. and it is not serious about deficit reduction. the spending levels we could double everyone's taxes and washington would still run a deficit. and the president has signed into the law about $670 billion of tax increases already. not a dime went to deficit reduction. so, i really think we ought to agree on standing these cuts or at least stopping the tax increases and making a serious commitment of guaranteed up or

vote on fundamental tax reform next year so we can discuss not only how we create changes in the tax code and sustain entitlements and get healthcare costs under control. >> how does it reduce uncertainty if you take 98% of the uncertainty off the table? >> those who will be punished in the proposal are small business owners, those who are most likely to contribute to economic growth and frankly i -- we might be able to find one economist who thinks it is good for the economy to raise those taxes. but we would wear out a car trying to find a second. host: kevin brady on our "news make makers" program. in williamsburg the in the gives association is holding one of their meetings to talk about issues that not only deal with

their state but on a larger scope with overall conditions especially economic of the nation. joining us is the national incoming chairman jack markell, the democratic governor from delaware. governor, thanks for joining us. guest: good morning. how are you? host: fine, thank you. if you had to highlight one major agenda that takes place during this meeting what would that be? guest: these meetings are generally about us talking with each other and talking with outside people about strategies that we can employ in our states to put more people to work or improve schools or to be good stewards of taxpayer money. the great thing about being governor is not the rhetoric or speeches but if we are effective in our state on those issues. host: some of the paper stories coming out of the governor meeting as of yesterday one

major topic not only among you and other governors but overall is concerning what will happen with medicare expansion. can you talk about that? medicaid. . that is an issue. the of the math of of of-after math of the supreme court ruling affordable care act. a lot of en spending time in delaware looking at it. my clause is pretty simple. math is math. it is not democratic or republican. we recognize there is a human cost of doing nothing and that huge cost is we would -- if we don't do anything we would continue to have so many in our case like 30,000 more sick get sicker and don't have coverage and go to the emergency room which is the most expensive place and the rest of us who have insurance pay for it. so, as we are looking at this we think the atprbl care act --

affordable care act and expansion of medicaid is good. host: your state will expand that? guest: there are a couple of caveats. one to the extent the federal government would reduce its later we don't want to be left holding the bag. we would have to have the flexibility at that time to reduce eligibility or benefits. then the other thing is even regardless of this act there's a lot of work to be done in the country and a lot of work to be done in my state to manufacture away from what has become a sick system where providers and facilities are reimbursed based on how many procedures they do. we have to move more toward a health care system where providers are rewarded for quality of keeping people healthy at the lowest cost. we are going to have to continue to have flexibility to make some of those things happen with medicaid specifically. but as we look at it, assuming our assumptions are correct

which are proving out this looks to be good deal for our state. host: when it comes to your state how much of your economy is based on medically related issues or manufacturers or insurance? guest: well, the biggest industry in our state agriculture is huge. very big in the poultry industry and soybeans, other crops. financial services has become a bigger employer the last 30 years. tens of thousands of jobs and within the last few minutes jpmorgan chase, capital one, bank of america, have announced yield jobs in delaware financial services. dupont. w.l. gore in our state. and important smaller companies. we love small business and the best economic development is to help the companies that are already in your state to grow.

so, we are pleased to see progress there but we've lots of work to do. host: our guest is with us until 8:20 and joins us to talk about not only the work of the national gives association but take your calls on the economy and especially the effect of governors who maintain the states. you can call on one of three lines. they are listed on the screen. governor, how does your state compare when it comes to employment to the national figure? i think what we've here is showing the national figure is 8.2%. your state in may was 6.8%. guest: that's right. so, 6.8 versus 8.2. it is obviously better to be lower. that being said, we don't consider 6.8 anything to celebrate. the way we look at it and particularly because we are a small state and we know each

other and probably about everybody in the state knows somebody who is not working and would like to be working. as long as there are people in our state who are not working and want to be we have to wake up each day focused on how we can create the nurturing environment where these people can be put to work by the private sector. that is what we focus on. there is plenty to do. host: how many people out of work in your state specifically? guest: about 30,000. so, the way we think about this, away take our lead from the businesses who are putting people to work. since i became give i probably have visited 750 businesses across the state. when i visit, i go in and ask one question, which is what can we do to facilitate your success? the appearances they give tend to be fairly consistent. they want to be in kphaupb comm with great schools and work for

purposes and reasonable taxes with an excellent quality of life. that is important. the c.e.o. of gallup wrote book called "the coming jobs war" and talked about there are three billion people looking for jobs and only 1.2 billion jobs available. so, we are in this global war for jobs which maps we are in a global war for talent because the jobs will go where the talent is. the kinds of talented workers that companies want to recruit, want to work in places where they want to live. quality of live is important. businesses are looking for misses with good infrastructure, with strong linkage it higher end and really responsive because we know as long as businesses are filling out forms and waiting in line people to t putting work. host: governor romney as he makes his case legged to

november cites business experience and what do you make of what he proposes jobs-wise and how does that translate to perhaps what might happen in your state should he become president? guest: i think that one of the interesting things about the election is the two candidates just offer different choices. it is one thing to head up a praeuft equity firm but the question is whether do you learn from it. what the president is focused on is building a strong middle class. and as i talk to businesses, what they focus on is the investments in education and workforce. these are things that the president has been absolutely clear on from day one. so, having experience making money for shareholders is one thing but having experience and having the focus and plan to build a strong middle class is another.

host: in 2008, 68 supported president obama. the call for our guest falls church, virginia. frank, end line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. thank you for the chance to speak to the governor. in my opinion, the medicaid escalation of cost is largely due to prime minist poor financ management. it has nothing to do with the people. the area of concern there is no analytical difficulties or problems in creating securities that can be traded in a market to finance medicaid such as e.p.f.'s.

could design e.t.f.'sed that could be sold in the market it help pay for medicaid. what we have is people are not being very creative and i feel that this can be sold for medicaid, medicare using new classes of profits. host: governor? guest: well, first of all, i have never heard the suggestion specifically before to create a connection 2010 e.t.f.'s and medicaid. i'm all ears for good ideas. i would say though one reason that medicaid has increased significantly particularly the last few years is in a difficult economy more people qualify for medicaid. that is just the fact. it is an unfortunate effect of the difficult economy but more people have qualified that can make it more expensive. the other side does have to do with the fact that as i said

befo before. as a country, this is not just medicaid but overall. we have become more a sick care society where the way the reimbursements work you do more procedures and you do more tests, you get paid more. that really has very little to do with keeping people healthy. that is something we have to focus on. i'm not pretending that is easy. is probably the most complicated policy challenge we've. but i'm keeping a careful eye on some of the great working done by governor patrick in massachusetts who has some legislation trying to accomplish this move away from what we call the fee for service model. i think there will be a lot of bumps on the road but my concern is unless we do something like that it is difficult to see how the increase in rates for healthcare would be sustainable.

host: we have set aside a line for those that live in delaware to call. that is the line you will call this morning. .

guest: on the first point the caller made in terms of republicans just trying to hurt the president, i have to say there's a lot of frustration amongst governors about the dysfunction in washington and i unfortunately believe that the tongue was very -- tone was very much set almost three years ago when senator mcconnell of kentucky, the head of the republicans in the senate, at the time, and this is well before this election, said that his number one objective was to make president obama a one-term president. that does not at all sound to me like a leader of our country saying how can we work together for the good of the country. and so i am -- it's very frustrating and i'm certainly hopeful that after the election, you know, the republicans in washington will work with the president

to try to deal with all of the huge issues that our country faces. host: when it comes to health care how do you look at it as you sit as governor when it comes to cost containment, when it's being proposed by the obama administration? guest: so this is the point i was making earlier about the move from the sick care to the health care. i think the bill, the affordable care act, there's a number of tools within it to focus on cost containment , accountable care organizations and the like. but the caution that i would give people is to say we can't expect that all of the solutions will be found simply within this bill, and there's a lot that we as governors and working within our states and state legislators and others and constituents in our states have to do, so i don't think there's going to be one size fits all on many of these cost containment strategies. cleersly there's not going

to be one size fits all with respect to the expansion of medicaid. that's one of the things we've been hearing over the last couple of days. and so i really -- i think we all look forward to working on more and more of these strategies. i do feel fortunate that in my state both our doctors through the medical society of delaware and hospitals through the health care association have pilots underway on this cost issue and one of them, for example, some of the hospitals in our state, had a strategy specifically focused on very heavy users of emergency departments. there are a lot of people throughout the country who use the emergency room for nonemergencies and that's extraordinarily expensive and the rest of us, and this is the part that people have to remember, the rest of us end of paying that bill, our health care premiums are higher than they would otherwise be because we're essentially paying for the care for people who are not covered and who are using the emergency room. so as i say, some of our hospitals have a strategy to help those people before

they actually get into the emergency room and essentially to divert them to a less costly, more appropriate place for them to get care. that's just one of a number of strategies that i think we're going to have to pursue across the country. host: governor jack markell of delaware is the incoming chair of the governors association. joining us, robert, republican, good morning. caller: hello governor. i've got two questions. guest: good morning. caller: first 11 -- first, one concern, there's nowhere to help the workers unless the governor gives his approval and number two, gas is at an all-time low -- [inaudible] what i want to think about you think -- what you think about natural gas prices.

guest: i didn't hear the first part of the question about a strike? which strike? host: i didn't hear it either. if you would address the second part, particularly on the larger part of energy and if that's going to be a topic at this year's meeting guest: the energy, obviously incredibly important, as a factor in all of our states. one of the things that we're seeing is that as a result of the drop in natural gas prices i think we've got a better and better chance to bring more and more manufacturing back to this country which is very exciting, because the more that we can actually make things in our country the better off we'll be. and i also think as you see some wages across the world increase from rock bottom, when you put it together, between higher wages, elsewhere, not that they're necessarily higher than ours but higher than they were and the lower energy prices here, we have an opportunity to bring more manufacturing home and i think that's a positive, it's something that all of us as against are interested in. host: you can see coverage

of the national governors association meeting later today. governor, this from twitter, asking you about k-12 education. you were asked if it's high on the agenda and do you subscribe to the math and reading national standards curriculum. and then the viewer asked why or why not. guest: okay. so first of all, very high on the agenda. yesterday, we had secretary arnie duncan, as well as a former secretary, margaret spellings here, for a great almost couple hour conversation with governors, and it's high on the agenda because it needs to be. we're the only -- the only way we can have a strong economy going forward is with great schools, and i'm more excited about what's going on in public education in my state today than i have ever been, and i'm a graduate of the public schools in my state. and i'm excited about it for a number of reasons. i mean, first of all, one of the things that we're saying in my -- seeing in my state is a lot of cooperation amongst teachers, principals, parents,

superintendents, the business community, other school-based personnel, folks in government, to really focus on student achievement which is what it has to be all about. the other thing is we have better data than we've ever had before about how our students are doing. there's not a single business in the world that can be successful without having a really clear sense of how the business is doing and in education for the most part that good data has never really existed and that's changed in my state over the last couple of years because we introduced a new assessment last year which has offered fall, winter, spring, and what this allows us to do is to see in real time what kind of progress our kids are making so we made actually very good progress this year and what is almost as dpieting as the actual progress we made are the kinds of conversations that this is creating amongst teachers and between superintendents and principals and teachers. every teacher in our state, several times a month, sits down with five of their peers and to drill into what the data is telling them

about student performance. i sat in on a couple of these recently. one was with teachers who were teaching kids to add fractions with different denominators and they were saying the kids weren't making as much progress as they thought they were, so the teachers took it upon themselves to reach out to nearby schools to get different work sheets and the like and to see these teachers and to feel the energy as they're really digging into this data to see what it's telling them is really valuable. on the common core question, i am a supporter of the common core. and in fact, i co-chaired this effort with the former governor of georgia, sunny per cue and -- per due and i'm a supporter for a couple of reasons. one, very easy to explain, it has to do with the fact that military families across the country, if you're a child in a military family and you change bases, change locations every 18 months, there's a very good chance when you move from one state to the next you're studying when you studied the previous year, you're studying what might have been constitute he'd the next year in a different state, and to have a common

core evident, this has been driven by the states, this is not a federally driven program but states got together, governors, chief school officers and others, got together and said what is it that we really want our kids to know and the expectations, these standards are higher, they're clearer and fewer than they used to be, and that's exactly where we should be. they're also more and more, they're internationally benchmarked. for too long we've had what garrison keeler talked in lake wobagon, everybody is above average, and that's not fair. when you tell a kid they're proficient based on standards and tests in their state and it's different elsewhere, you're not being very honest with them and i think a dose of honesty is very much in order. so we are really excited about all the work that's being done. it's hard, certainly the imhe mentation of the common core standards is very difficult, but it's important and i'm excited about the progress we're making. >> host: georgia on the democrats' line, good morning. caller: good morning governor markell, and

congratulations on your appointment to head of the national governors association. guest: good morning. caller: you have two questions for you. the first is regarding the medicare -- or medicaid issue and the funding thereof. do you think that funding through, say, a fair tax would be appropriate or would be an alternative that maybe congress should consider? and the other thing is do you think -- will your state be implementing a sales tax any time soon? guest: we have no plans to implement a sales tax whatsoever. we're one of five states in the country without a sales tax. that means we invite all of you to come to the hub of tax-free shopping in delaware. we've got great retail

opportunities throughout our state and we hope that you will come visit, so no plans to do a sales tax, and i've not looked specifically at the suggestion you're making in terms of medicaid funding. obviously, congress and the administration have a lot of work to do together in terms of the budget and the likes. i've really not spent a lot of time focused on the federal portion of it. what we're really trying to do is understand what makes sense for our state. and as i said at the beginning, our view based on the math is that we think this expansion is likely to be a very good deal for the people of delaware. host: medicaid costs, the topic at 10:30 today at the national governors association, what you can see live as part of the a.m. meeting, c-span radio 2, as well as veterans issues being tackled at 2:30. tomorrow at 11:00, entrepreneurship is the topic. next from the virgin islands, herbert, hi. you're on sir, go ahead.

caller: hi, i'm a physician, and i've been interested in the health care issues, as well as the job issues that the governor has been talking about, and they are really related. for example, i believe that general motors has to pay out over $1000 in health care costs for every car it produces. it may be more, i don't recall. but this makes manufacturers and other businesses much less competitive in the united states. if there was a single payor where you separate insurance from your employer, the business business would be much more competitive. host: we'll let our guest respond. governor. guest: first of all, i think

the issue of the cost is really important, and i'm glad the caller brought that up, and for the following reason. there's been so much vitriol about the affordable care agent that people have forgotten how unacceptable the status quo is, and i can tell you when i was running for governor in # on 08, health care was the number one issue i was asked about, and that came from people who were concerned about rising costs and it came from people who were concerned about having access. and importantly the affordable care act addresses both of them. i'm not convinced that a single payor approach is a good one. it's not something that i would support in delaware. i think we've got now what the affordable care act, the outlines of a good first step, but as i said earlier, there is plenty for us to do in each of our states to focus on improving and sort

of moving from this sick care system to a health care system and we'll certainly be doing that in delaware. host: the affordable care act has specific taxes assigned for those that manufacturer medical devices, are any of those in your state and are they affected by this new tax? guest: they are. we've got astrazeneca and other pharmaceutical mps, we have a biotechical institute near the university of delaware with a lot of emerging coes, exciting emerging companies, so they are very much affected and obviously one of the things they're looking for is certainty, and i think that's one of the things that businesses across the whole range of industries is looking for -- are looking for is certainty, and so i think the sooner we move on, we recognize whether you like it or didn't like it the supreme court has made their decision, it's the law of the land so, let's move on, let's implement, let's

continue to improve, let's figure out how we as states can make things better in our own states. there are going to be lots of different ways of implementing. that's one of the flexibilities that the bill creates. and so let's get on with it. host: this is fayetteville, north carolina, frank is on a republican line. caller: good morning to both of you. briefly i've been involved in health care for 30 years, a health care provider, my wife is an elementary school teacher, i have a teaching degree and school board member, a veteran, so i've touched on the areas the governor has spoke about and let me make it clear, if anybody supports the health care bill passed and ratified by the supreme court, it has absolutely no interest in controlling health care costs when you expand health care access, no tort reform has driven costs through the roof, assessibility, uncontrolled assessility has driven the health care costs through the roof, and when you expand access, it will go nowhere but higher, and to say that we test too much,

well that's true, we do test too much too often, but it's because we are forced to test too much because we always are under the guise of lawsuits and patients being uncomfortable. one quick comment, since the passing of health care legislation, premiums have skyrocketed and copays have skyrocketed and to say we're going to increase it to the 30 million people, there's no way to have health care costs without responsibility. i can treat all day long but the minute the patient leaves my office and don't take care of their own health, the diet their children are exposed to and cigarettes and alcohol and so on and so forth, there's no-no way we'll control health care costs. host: thank you. governor, go ahead. guest: well, there's a lot there. first of all, everybody is certainly entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts and i don't have

them with me but in terms of what the caller said about the huge hike -- huge spike in rates, i have different facts and i can get them to to you so you can share them with your viewers, secretary of defensely, in terms of cost, the more people get covered there is a cost to it but there's a huge cost right now to people who are not covered because they're going to the emergency room and that's extraordinarily expensive, and it's a bad way of delivering health care, and we've got to change that. and i do agree with the caller with respect to the importance of people learning to take control of their own health and taking responsibility for their own health, whether it's what we feed our kids or whether it's how much exercise we get, there's no question about it, which is one reason i said at the very beginning of the show, one of the things that we'd be looking for is flexibility, because we want to make sure the incentives are aligned properly. so there may be things we want to do in terms of

giving incentives with respect to what people -- to people taking better cares of themselves, it's certainly something we've done as a state government, wellness programs and the like and it's important. it's been an ongoing focus, health promotion in the state of delaware to make people healthier and healthier and make them less expensive to care for. host: this is from newark, delaware, mike, go ahead. caller: thank you governor and thank you for cnn spavment. i wanted to let the governor know what's going on in my life. i'm in my late as, so is -- 50s, so is my wife, we're both unemployed. i'm a history teacher. now, i've been looking for a job for two years, and i can't find one, and people won't even call me back. that's what it's like for an older man or woman, trying to find a job in this economy. what's the governor got to say about that? thank you. guest: no question this is

really what we've talked about earlier. although our unemployment rate is better than the national average the fact is we've got 30,000 people, including two in your household who are looking for work and this is why we've got to continue to be as focused as we can possibly be. first of all we've got to be focused on making sure we've got a nurturing environment where private sector companies employ more people and the side benefit of that important benefit is that it generates the tax revenues we need to make sure we continue to have teachers in the classroom. one thing i feel very good about in delaware, over the last several years we've put more than 100 additional teachers each year in our classrooms to keep our class size ratios where they ought to be, unlike a lot of states where teachers have been laid off by the thousands or tens of thowrks we've actually not laid off any state employees over the last few years. -- years. we're way down in terms of employment because we've been carefully managing the attrition, but we've not laid anybody off. so i think importantly, we

recognize the job one for us is to do everything we can so we're putting more people back to work. host: as part of your job as incoming chairman, what's your agenda and what's on the top of that list? >> well, i actually get to choose a specific initiative but i won't actually be able to talk about it until tomorrow because in the meantime this is had not heinman of nebraska is the chair and we certainly look forward to building on the great work he's done. his focus has been on growing state economies. he had a number of forums across the country, and really focused on creating more of an entrepreneurial environment and he's given us a number of helpful suggestions not just specifically for our states but more broadly about how we can continue to grow state economies, and i would think for the overwhelming majority of states over the next several years, jobs will continue to be job one, also recognizing that the only way we'll have a great jobs picture for years to come is by having excellent

schools as well. these two things are really very tightly linked. host: governor jack markell, democrat from delaware, the incoming chairman of the national governors association, governor, thank you for your time this morning. guest: thanks a lot. host: and don't forget, live coverage of the nga does take place on c-span, 10:30 and 2:30 are specific events that you can go and view for yourself, you can also listen to on c-span radio. you can find out more on our website, c-span.org, coming up, car lee hurt gives us his take on the controversy surrounding mitt romney's tour at bain capital, and a report's lead author, all that as "washington journal" continues in a few moments. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp.2012]

>> what we're trying to do is keep this large tradition full and documented and reflect the larger story of american democracy. >> on american artifacts a look at the smithsonian's presidential campaign memorabilia collection, sunday at 7:00 p.m. eastern and pacific, als sunday, more from the contenders, our series on key political figures who ran for president and lost, but changed political history. this week, wendta wilke. wilke never ran for office before winning the presidential nomination, he would never hold office. he would become an unlikely ally to fdr. american history this weekend on c-span three.

>> when you realize that these armies were remnants of armies were not coming to his aid but were trying to escape really to the west, that's when he collapsed, when he felt he realized finally it would come to an end and it was a question of suicide. >> historian antony be. vor with a look at the second world war, with adolph hitler's rise to power and his final days. >> his main objective was not being captured by the russians. he was determined to die. and eva braun was determined to die with him. >> more with antony beevor on sunday's q & a. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now charlie hurt of the washington times, serves as their political column ins, welcome. guest: thank you for having

me. host: how much of an issue is it with myth rom -- romney and his tenure at bain capital? guest: this week we've heard so much about it, i think more than most people want to, whether or not that is actually penetrating into peoples' minds, you know, people who are more concerned about a lot of other things, i think, is unclear. but certainly the fact that we have spent an entire week in this town, anyway, obsessing over bain and what exact years mitt romney was there and when he left and things like that, that is somewhat of a victory for president obama because if we're talking about that, we're talking about kind of what a rich guy mitt romney is, as opposed to the economy. and president obama pretty much wants to do everything to keep the republicans off of balance from just hammering him on all the little specifics about the economy. host: so specifically how the campaigns responded in this matter, as far as how they're handling this?

guest: i think that the mitt romney campaign is sort of getting its footing. i think that, obviously, they would have been a lot more -- better off if they could have ignored all this, changed the page, and remember, this whole issue about whenith mitt romney left is not a new issue. it's not something that came up six, eight months ago, and even longer ago than that, was fairly well tampered down. so i think they were kind of surprised that so many people, especially in the media, really ran with the story, and we were sitting there saying this is an old story, why are we talking about this. and so obviously, they misread that and they could have done a better job. president obama, what i think we have seen, maybe even in the first week where we have seen a campaign that is as targeted and disciplined as they were in 2008, and you know, when he ran a very good campaign with very good wins at his

back -- >> host: and is the tone different in this issue? guest: i have been shocked at -- basically what we've seen this week, we've seen the campaign of a sitting president, accusing their opponent of basically being a felon. which is a very -- a highly suspect claim, anyway. but the fact that we heard that and president obama last night very much did not back off of that. he said, in fact, that romney needs to answer these questions, and very much doubled down on not that accusation particularly but that is certainly the thrust of it. i don't -- i can't -- i mean, you tell me, do you remember the last time that we have heard this tone? we haven't even had the conventions, we're not even in that hard stretch, you know, right before the election. it's still kind of early. it is getting nasty, and i think it's going to get

much, mu uglier. host: campaign 2012, the topic in our time with charlie hurt of the washington tiles. if you want to give him a call, ask him questions: >> here's governor romney from yesterday, as he was making the rounds on the networks, responding to this issue. here's what he had to say: >> there's nothing wrong with being associated with bain capital of course but the truth is i left, any role at bain capital in february '99 and that's known and said by the people at the firm, it's said by the documents, offering documents that the firm made subsequently about people investing in the. -- at the firm and i think anybody who knows i was full-time running the olympics understand that's where i was, i spent three years running the olympic games and after that was

over we worked out our retirement program, our department program for bain capital and handed over the shares i had but there's a difference between being an otherrerrer, a shareholder and person who's running an entity and i had no role whatsoever in running bain capital after february '99 and by the way, this is all an evident on the part of the president's campaign to divert attention from the fact that the president has been a failure when it comes to reigniting america's economy. we have had now 40 straight months of unemployment above 8 percent so he continues to try and find some way to attack me other than to talk about policy and it's time to talk about what it will take to get america working again. host: and one of the highlights the governor made was the difference between being active day to day and still stepping away from it and still having a presence there. guest: and again, you know, it goes back to the point you just raised, which is that mitt romney really got

put off -- on the defensive on all of this and i don't know that he needed to because i really don't think a whole lot of people except the most active political observers care about all of this. and those interviews which i thought it was very smart to set those interviews up, it sort of shocked the system, made everybody kind of start talking about something else, and he was just answering questions, i get that, but he had to know that was going to be what everybody focused on. i think he would have been much smarter to spend all the time in all those interviews yesterday either attacking president obama on the economy or there's been this whole sort of microburst about whether he might pick condi rice for vice president. he could have spent all this time talking about how much he admires condi rice and it would have gone another way. when he's sitting here answering these questions, he's on the defense and obama is being -- skirting

around, having to answer tough questions about the economy. host: what's behind the rice story, what's its purpose? guest: i think the campaign partly sort of floated this notion for two reasons. one is they desperately wanted to stop all this talk about bain capital. the second thing is that, you know, campaigns always do this, before they pick their vice presidential nominee, they sort of float names out that let people know the kinds of people that they would be interested in. .

host: florida, you are up next. go ahead. caller: thank you. i love your program in. -- i love your programming. governor romney is wrong in accusing president obama of making false accusations. i saw him on five different

stations yesterday. all he said in everything he said, i had nothing to do with it. i was not there. i was not running the company. i was only there from february until 1999. how can we put somebody like romney in the highest office of the united states when he cannot even explain how he managed the business, what he did there. papers are coming out that show he was running the company. how can he run for president trying to put out his taxes? i think it is an outrage.

host: we will leave it there. someone from twitter ads in this part about why he was still being paid a salary of $100,000 after 1999. guest: this has been very effective in terms of knocking mitt romney off of message. every moment mitt romney spends talking about any of this is wasted time as far as his campaign is concerned. i do not know what he would have said that would have changed her mind during his remarks last night. probably nothing. the only people paying attention to this stuff or making a judgment about anybody based on any of this are the people most

closely watching already. those people have made up their minds. that is why i do not think ultimately any of this matters all except as a smart ploy by the obama campaign to hammer home something other than the economy and a hammer home that mitt romney is a very rich guy. host: she mentioned bain capital and tax returns. "the new york times" says this. these are deadly character flaws because they are in difficult to the american ideal of the presidency. guest: everybody in washington are hanging on every twist and turn of this. if you walk down main street of most towns and ask about this,

the conversation would quickly turn away from this and to things like the economy, the crazy whether we have had, and things like that. host: diane from albany on the republican line. go ahead. caller: the couple of comments and then i will take your responses off of the air. i hear people complaining about bain capital. people need to look into how corporations work. i have two small businesses. i was told they were corporations. i was told i had to have a president, secretary, and treasurer. i had a secretary and treasurer that were not paid and not involved in the business at all. how do you feel about the 2010 election? i think the people spoke loud and clear. i hope romney presses this issue. all these programs are becoming

to where congress can have no control or oversight. where does that leave the american boat? if we cannot do a thing about it wants the programs going to affect and turn out to be a disaster like health care, our vote will not change anything. where does that leave the american people's vote? thank you? guest: that is the flip side of the argument that mitt romney is a rich guy. in the united states, class warfare campaigns usually do not do well. we saw a heavily and used campaign from john kerry in 2004. don edwards, his whole schtick became class warfare. he did not even win the

democratic nomination for president. those campaigns usually do not work well. if mitt romney is able to continue attacking obama on the economy and portraying the obama campaign as running this and business -- into-business -- anti-business class warfare campaign, that can be very successful in national politics. host: john mccain was criticized. mitt romney is criticized. are there differences in the campaign cycles? guest: i do think mitt romney is running a better campaign then john mccain did. john mccain's campaign was beset with every problem imaginable.

president obama, senator obama back then, did not have to go that tool much. he ran a nearly flawless campaign in a terrific environment for him where people were sick and tired of republicans and the bush administration. they wanted change. now is a very different environment for him. host: independent line, george from maryland. caller: i hope you will allow me to make a statement or two and then ask the question of the gentleman. i am a disabled vietnam veteran. 50,000 of my fellow vietnam veterans were laid to rest to protect the image of our country. it upsets the hell out of me to

see -- i remember st. paul said in the bible proclaiming themselves to be wise they became tools. chairman mao of the conversation said they were selling mother for a dollar. al capone ran new york during the 1920's and 1930's prohibition years. they paid politicians and judges. they bought prosecutors to do business in those towns at the expense of those people. what i see in the national government are the same things. our politicians selling out to businesses. i ask myself where is the patriotism -- excuse me.

where is the patriotism? in some countries, health and education are rights, even in the communist country. we do not pay predatory insurance companies. we do not pay predatory financial institutions to get educations. the question is this. what ever happened to the quality and integrity of patriotism in my country? guest: fascinating. we were amazed by the 2008 election. everyone said it was a big wave election. those only come around every decade or so or even longer. in 2010, we saw another huge

election. people showed up. they were the opposite people. in 2008, is democrats. in 2010, it was republicans. i do think the caller makes the point that people across the spectrum feel the system is broken. they feel politics is broken and washington is broken. when you add the economy into it, it hurts. i do not know if mitt romney can bring all of this together. president obama was given a chance. he has not healed even the disgruntlement on his own side among the voters, so i would make the argument he has not

succeeded. i do not know that mitt romney will be that person or not. this country is yearning, dine for somebody who is able to look beyond the partisan nonsense everyone is talking about like this bain capital stuff. it is ridiculous. they need to congeal the focus of everybody and fix this place and the government. the frustration you hear out there is profound. the way the elections of 2008 and 2010, the uc elements of that in this cycle? guest: i do. the polls suggest it is really close. the polls suggested it was close weeks and days before ronald

reagan's landslide victory over jimmy carter. i say that not based on polling but on attitudes you pick up when talking to people. president obama is making a big push to appeal to black voters. if he is having to do that, he has a problem on his hands. i do trust that operation to know what is going on out there. you can criticize them. they make mistakes. they are not delusional. they know what they are dealing with. i think that is why they have been playing such hardball. they have a problem on their hands and note it. i could absolutely see that. i think we could be looking at a large shift in -- shifting one

where the other. i think it will end up going against obama. pele are really angry about their. i am alone. no one else seems to think that. host: arlington, texas, democrats line. caller: i want to make three comments. the republican candidate is a very different person. his involvement has made him look very different from the ordinary american. that is the first comment. the second comment is this. he has not defined himself as qualified to be a republican candidate. the third one, he always says he

wants to repeal, create jobs. he has not told the american people how he is going to create those jobs. the last one is this. in 2010, the republican campaign on job creation. that is why they won the congress. one year later, they have not done anything to create jobs. they have sought on every policy for the good -- the president has put forward for the good of the people. guest: i do not know how you can make the argument mitt romney has not proved himself to be the republican nominee. the nomination process with brutal and rough-and-tumble. he went up against very good

people. he managed to win the nomination. he is doing and what not to coalesce republicans around him. i think people -- republicans really do not like president obama. what are you going to do, stay home? highly unlikely. the caller points out a lot of what republicans wanted to do and the promises the one of the house in 2010. president obama and democrats control the white house, handily control the house, and controlled the senate 45 years. -- and controlled the senate for two years. it was a filibuster proof for a while. did they get rid of the bush tax

cuts? did they cut spending? the the balance the budget? they did not even produce a budget. you have to be careful. we get excited in our partisan corners. but you have to be careful. the democrats kravitz have not proven themselves well in the last couple of years. -- the democrats have not proven themselves well in the last couple of years. host: political theater? guest: it also is a way of conveying the message, if you give us control, we will do it easily. we cannot do it as long as there is a democratic-controlled senate and a democrat in the white house. but i think that was very much the message. this is the kind of thing you

will see if you will give us a shot at running this town. it is always troublesome to give any one party control in this town. both tend to abuse it badly. now we are in such a fix and there are so many problems that need to be fixed that this lockdown is maddening in terms of trying to make some of those fixes. host: the next caller is from alabama on the republican line. caller: i have two questions. our biggest problem is with jobs. i want to know what the president is going to fix to fix the jobs. we went to school for 12 years

and cannot even fix our own economy when it comes to stuff like that. i cannot lie to my kids going to school for 12 years and they cannot even get a job. the other problem is, my second problem is with immigration. who is going to help with getting a job and getting free assistance? if it was for me, they were lower by food stamps or something like that. -- they would lower my food stamps or something like that. i want to know who will be able to fix our economy the way it is. guest: i do not even remember which line that came in on. i can tell you -- i cannot tell from the comments.

these are the first two point to here often from both democrats and republicans, especially in border states or colorado's or any of the places where you have a lot of illegal immigration. people are confronted. -- people are confounded. it is so hard to find work. they read about illegal immigration. it is enough to make your head explode. it is democrats and republicans. neither party has done a good job of speaking to those voters and appealing to them. when somebody does, it will be very effective. host: how will president obama to treat the economy as he campaigns? guest: talk about bain capital. he will do everything he can not to talk about it.

he spends a lot of time trying to explain how he inherited the problem. that worked for a couple of years. i think he has to be careful about over using that because if people hear somebody say "that other guy" too much, they start thinking you are full of it and start not believing you when you talk about other things. when that problem sets in among democrats, he is going to have a real problem on his hands. host: here is naomi from norman, okla., on the independents' line. caller: i am disgusted and amazed. i think he had a job in 1999. i think he was at bain.

what difference does it make? i am so disgusted. there are so many things wrong in this country. the reporters keep bringing up things like bain. we still will more about mr. romney than we do about obama -- we still know more about mr. romney then we do about obama. mr. romney made his money. he is a clean individual. those are my three points this morning. guest: i think she makes a good point. i think it is possible president obama and his campaign overplayed this. it does seem ridiculous when you start thinking about all of that. i love that she throws the media in there.

the media deserves every bit of -- as much of the credit for the way in which we focus on things that are trivial and the women did this pack mentality -- and the way we get into this pack mentality, a liberal-leaning pack mentality that is a huge part of the problem. god bless the internet. the internet is very democratizing, the internet and c-span are democratizing the campaign coverage and coverage of other things. host: here is president obama talking to reporters about mitt romney's record at bain capital. [video clip] >> i think it is appropriate to look at his record and see if his focus is creating jobs.

when you look at the record, there are questions that have to be asked. >> like what? >> when some people question why i would question his brain -- bain record is the point i have made in the past. if you are the head of an equity from, your job is to make money. it is not to create jobs. is to make sure your maximizing returns for investors. that is appropriate. that is the american way. that is part of the system. but that does not make you qualified to think about the economy as a whole. as president, my job is to think about the workers. my job is to think about communities where jobs have been outsourced. it is not that he is disqualified because of what he has done. it is his main claim. he does not talk about the fact

he was governor of massachusetts for four years very much. i want us to make sure we know what your theory is about how to grow the economy. host: that was a very smart campaign strategy. he delivers those remarks -- everything he says is reasonable. anybody running for office should answer questions about whatever. he is very much riding on dirty work his campaign did all week accusing mitt romney of being a felon and that stuff. president obama was able to at the end of the week, kind of rise above it but continue to push this. that some help mitt romney is some kind of fell in because of

these -- some kind of fell in -- felon because of these sec documents. i think voters will be turned off by it. host: democrats lined. yvonne is from maryland. caller: he chose to run on his record from thank. -- from bain. i do not believe a word that comes out of his mouth. he never answers questions. how can you run for the highest office and not answer questions and tell people to trust you? when you get in office, we will see where you do. are you kidding? the republicans have run up over a cliff when they were in there. we are supposed to trust you again?

i do not think so. guest: mitt romney did spend a lot of time talking about his time as a successful businessman more than his time as governor of massachusetts. it is an entirely different conversation we're having now about bain than whether he was a success there. even president obama's acknowledges he was a successful businessman. host: the independent line, jay. caller: i think the elephant in the room is race. we saw based on the comments of the naacp that romney was not well-received. the democrats have the african-

american and minority group. -- vote. the demographics of the party are changing quickly. the strategies they used in the past will only appeal so far. if this party does not come to realize their policies are not helping other minorities as%, like pat buchanan said. he knows there is a party that will abbreviate itself from within. it cannot become a party that is inclusive instead of the party going to one segment of society. that is the rich. that is what the republican party looks like. guest: i agree that racial

tensions have gotten worse over the last couple of years. in this election, race has become an issue. it is alarming it is both ways. you had mitt romney go before the naacp. he was received bouquet at certain points, but it was harsh. you had the joe biden go to the naacp and give a speech saying, can you imagine what mitt justice department of

would look like? i can remember the last time the politicians got away with something like that. i have not heard a peep from anybody about how incredibly racially charged that was. it is terrifying. i do not see evidence mitt romney or republicans are playing that game. it is very much on the other side that i have seen. host: charlie hurt from "washington times. " next call. caller: i think everybody can agree jobs is the big question and desire of the voters. i think both candidates should know how to solve the jobs problem. the reason they should know is business leaders have been

screaming loud and clear that the way to get jobs going is to enact something -- simpson- bowles. it is sort of like watching two people with blindfolds at a pin the donkey party. the business leaders are on the side screening "simpson-bowles." the candidates cannot seem to understand what they are saying when they are screaming loud and clear "simpson-bowles." why not say i know how to create jobs because the business community told me? simpson-bowles. guest: that was the plan to change taxes and spending in washington to salvage -- curb

the deficits and debt and put medicare, medicaid, and social security on good footing. the problem is there were big cuts and taxes in there. that is the kind of thing the parties -- democrats cannot handle spending cuts. republicans cannot except tax hikes. because of that, you have the two camps and willing to come together and make tough decisions that need to be made to fix the spiraling problem. host: here is houston, texas. gail on the democrats' line. caller: and you for taking my

call. i would like to say the journalists today are not doing their homework. i missed tim russert so badly because he would have dreaded -- vetted mitt romney. the nerve of romney thinking he can run for the highest office in the united states and not have to answer the serious questions about his past. president obama would never have gotten that far without being vetted formally. the nerve of him thinking he can walk into the naacp in front of the people that depend on these programs and throw this in their

face thinking he would not give a push back from them. he has a lot of nerve. he does not deserve to be president. host: we will leave it there. guest: 10 russert is certainly missed. -- tim russert is certainly missed. he was wonderful. he did have a way of cutting through the clutter in a way i think is missing in many ways. those of us in the media, especially in washington, bear a fair amount of responsibility for the mess we're in. host: "the new york times" highlights some reasons why condoleezza rice may not make it as the vice-presidential canada. guest: i am personally doubtful

about it. it would be very smart to -- one of the most effective things about president obama in 2008 was he was a clean break from bush-plan. that is how he beat hillary clinton in the primary and mccain in the general. going back to someone like condoleezza rice is a reversal of that trend. i find it very unlikely. her pro-choice stance would mean if he were to pick her, it would highlight the fact that mitt romney himself has been all over the map on abortion. it would bring that whole thing up again. it would upset republicans, a lot of conservatives. it would be him having to

explain again. if you are explaining, you are losing in politics. i find it highly unlikely, but what do i know? host: hawthorne, florida. caller: government creates only government jobs which require the government takes money from someone else while creating policies that virtually crippled private industry. we cannot continue on this track. listening to the people who call it makes me think many people are ignorant of how money works in this country. what are recalling to do to educate people so they understand how things work in a way that they do not vote for personalities? we're in a vote of personality when people vote based on whether they like him or not and

not understanding the policies being perpetuated by either party. i am sort of independent. both parties left me years ago. i would like one to come back to me, but they are not looking out for americans. they're looking out for government. you cannot continue to grow government. if we keep doing this, we will turn into greece. that is all i have to say. thank you. host: a question out of that. where are the independents in the process? guest: i think a lot of them are right there saying the sorts of things that caller is saying. they are incredibly frustrated. both parties have abused and neglected them. whatever this wave is, it is not over. we have a long ways to go before

people are satisfied with a candidate. host: shreveport, louisiana. claire, republican line. caller: these people call in and talk about romney and his qualifications. i have never seen the media vet obama. i would like somebody to speak about one thing. i would like to know one thing that ever qualified obama for president. i would like to know one thing he ever done besides talk. does people remember her to cover congress and the first two years of the bush administration? nancy pelosi and harry reid. by december, we was in a recession. i was watching the hearings

where they were trying to stop the . it was party-line votes. the question is, it is obvious how to create jobs. i want to know what he has done different from the missouri appeared -- i want to know what he has done different from venezuela. guest: republicans are not going to defect. any sort of lack of enthusiasm for mitt romney is made up fivefold by the deep disenchantment among

conservatives and republicans president obama. host: colleen asks if california is a bystander in this election. guest: i assume it is. if things shift dramatically over the next couple months, say against obama, nobody has suffered worse in the economy than california. we've had three cities file for bankruptcy in the last few weeks. if we're talking about california, the election is over. not only would it take the numbers off the table for him. it would indicate a massive shift of many other states that

would be falling towards and romney. we have all of the ingredients for that sort of thing to happen. the wild tempers of voters, the deep dissatisfaction, high unemployment. cities struggling, filing for bankruptcy. it is a tough environment for an incumbent. host: missouri, democrats line, john, hello. caller: i hope you can hear me. i have a couple of questions. answer the you question about why mitt romney will not turn over his tax returns. people are not just upset at bain. they are upset at corporate america and financial institutions which have put us in this position.

if using people and going to forget about the bush economy and already have -- if you think people are going to forget about the bush economy and already have, there was a guy named hoover. i do not think people have forgotten about mr. hoover yet. guest: as a reporter, i want people to release everything. at the same time, i understand why romney does not want to release more than he has released. the reason is every little drip and drab that comes out winds up being more time spent talking about what a rich guy he is. that is as opposed to talking about the economy and other things. the other thing is the obama campaign is very smart.

if they get a another trove of documents, they already know more about mitt romney then mitt romney knows about mitt romney. if they get more documents with huge numbers, they will come up with fantastical questions. i would argue the obama campaign probably lead the boston globe reporters down the primrose path in resurrecting the story that had been well gone over by the "washington post" and others. they're good at getting the media to pounce on things. additional tax documents would provide just that. host: missouri, julie, go ahead. is this max creek, missouri?

go ahead. caller: yes. i wanted to make some statements and hoped it could help me. i am not sure about the health care plan and how that will work for my husband and me. we both work seasonal jobs. we cannot afford this program. to be penalized, where does that money go? i live in a rural place. we need more jobs. all the jobs here are being outsourced. i want to know which candidate will help us create more jobs. host: joseph ramirez adds this from twitter. guest: anytime you have unemployment over 8%, it is

tough headwind. to answer the caller's question, my understanding is the tax penalties for not getting insurance go toward paying for the larger program itself. host: one more call from port richey, fla. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. did obama run in his first campaign that he would cut the deficit in half or he would not run another four years? host: we will leave it there. guest: i cannot remember the exact phraseology, but that is what he campaigned on, cutting the deficit in half. he also talked about -- and

cannot remember the exact numbers. the other thing he ran on was tax cuts. he was very effective on that? we're hearing a much different campaign this time. going back to your point at the beginning, a different tone as well. i think it is interesting to see those changes in this campaign. host: what is your take on it if we're still we're still -- if we are still talking about bain? guest: i would think the romney campaign is not doing a good job of changing the topic. host: charlie hurt is a political columnist for the "washington times." you can go to the website and find his recent writings and

other things about the campaign. coming up, a report was looked -- released looking at schools challenging students. we will talk about that when we return. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> we have leaks that have occurred throughout every administration that has served in america. is there any particular reason why we should be so dramatically concerned about the recent leaks that have occurred? >> you have put your finger on an interesting point, whether

there are good or bad leaks. some say we have to allow some leaks because that is the only way information about wrongdoing in the government will get surfaced. that is not the case. congress has pounced -- passes series whistleblower protection laws. if you see something that looks like waste, fraud, abuse, or criminal conduct, you can take that information up. the point being very is an avenue for surfacing the information other than going to the press. the argument we need to press leaks to allow that is not the case. >> national security leaks and the press, possible avenues of investigation and prosecution, topics for the house judiciary subcommittee. watch online at the c-span video library.

>> how hitler had no plan. the remnants of armies were not coming to his aid. there were looking to escape to the west. he collapsed when he realized it was coming to an end and it was only a question of suicide. >> a new look at the second world war from adolf hitler's rise to power to his dark chaotic final days. >> he was afraid of being paraded through moscow in a cage and being ridiculed. he was determined to die. eva brown was determined to die with him. >> more on sunday at 8:00. >> "washington journal" continues. host: our guest is ulrich boser , a senior fellow at the center for american progress. do schools challenge our

students? this came out recently in the news. what led you to investigate this? guest: is a growing body of research st. student surveys provide important insight into the classroom. they reveal how rigorous is the teaching and curriculum. studies have shown student surveys can provide better insight into a teachers effectiveness than more traditional indicators like in master's degree. we investigated the data base to some light on it we just looked at federal data. it is commonly known as the nation's report card. host: 29% of eighth grade math students nationwide said their work is often too easy.

37% of fourth grade students reported there'ir math work is o easy. guest: there is a popular perception that students are overworked and under-played. they are carrying home a 40 pound backpacks filled with homework. that might be the case in affluent places like bethesda, maryland, or beverly hills, california. but for students in the other 15,000 school districts, we found the opposite. students are not being challenged. they are not being engaged. over 30% of fourth graders are saying they are not being challenged enough. more than 1/3 of eight traders say they are reading less than five pages a day. that is not enough to prepare our students for the future, for college and a career.

host: 1 line in the report says the data reports how the students perceive their work but not the actual record of -- rigor of the work. guest: have an education crisis. most eighth graders are not reading at grade level in eighth grade. 75% drop out of schools. students are saying the school work is not challenging enough. that might be one reason why we have this. host: does it go into why students are not being challenged? guest: our study did not look at exactly why. we've did look at other research to suggest what is going on. standards have been too low for too long. academic standards emphasize

certain things over others. we have a problem with the testing center. they are in non-like in their accounting. -- they are enron-like in their accounting. in california, around 60% of their students are passing in fourth grade. when you look at the federal exam, it was much lower, around 30%. that is an issue. host: our guest is from the center for american progress. we have divided the lines for parents, teachers, and students. you can also send us a tweet and e-mail us. another element you talk about is teacher questions.

what was that? the way teachers ask questions in class. guest: we found a large percentage of students do not understand their teacher. they feel they are not learning all the time. what we know from research out there is that students need to be engaged. they need to not only be able to been memorized mature, they need to deeply understand topics to be prepared for the modern job. we need to make sure teachers have the tools and training they need. teachers work very hard. teachers are dedicated to their practice, but they need good textbooks and time to hone their craft to make sure they can engage students in creativity and critical thinking skills. host: you say the standards are too low. the previous administration put out specific standards. guest: all 50 states have set

their own standards. more than 40 states have joined to this reform movement on common core standards. it describes what students should be able to do at a higher level. we see an initiative that will get at this issue. implementation is going to be key. are teachers going to know how to teach to these standards? what will it look like when assessments are aligned? we need to make sure the text book and curriculum -- the text books and curriculum and powers them to teach to higher standards. they will be much more rigorous. host: if you have students saying their work is too easy, how are they doing when the test comes out, as far as their ability to pass? guest: we did not look at that. we know that students need to be engaged. students are often checking out.

that can lead to low graduation rates we see where a high percentage of students are leaving school. students need to be engaged in reading and math. they also need extracurricular. a lot of high school students come to school because of baseball or music class. we need to make sure while we are delivering rigorous material in the core subjects we're also making sure these other important topics are being addressed. host: roanoke, virginia, grover is a grandparent. go ahead. caller: i have a statement more than a question. in the classrooms in this day and age, the teachers are so limited in the amount of discipline they can hand out to keep down the disruptive students. schools are liable to be sued if

little johnny jerk likes to sit in the back of the class making noise. school is disrupted, but they have little or no ability to stop this. that is one of the reasons why the students are board -- bored. they do not get much time to teach because the class is so disrupted among other things. that is my statement. thank you. guest: grover argued teachers have limited tools at their disposal to discipline students. that might be true. times have changed in terms of how we treat something like corporal punishment, even teachers are asking students to do pushups. the classrooms need to teach creativity and critical thinking skills.

they need to make sure students are actively engaged in learning. i think many teachers do a good -- af kutcher management good job of classroom management. we need personalization to make sure all students are learning. students might be advanced in one corner of the classroom learning. in bringing all of the students together to introduce a new topic. this is not tracking. this is making sure instruction is delivered and personalized to individual student. that will be increasingly difficult. we want to have this much richer knowledge of the subject. we found in our survey other surprising results. over 70% of eighth graders were not learning engineering and technology. that is a key topic for

students to be prepared for today's jobs. they need to learn more about engineering, science, math to make sure they're prepared for the jobs of the future. host: chad identifies himself as a student from south carolina. what grade are you in? caller: i was wanting to comment on higher education. i think the guest is right on the ball. if you start from kindergarten all the way through higher education. in my case at greenville state, i think there is a lack of academic integrity, holding teachers accountable to what they teach and how they present it to the students.

the instructor put it on test questions. all tapeworms are acquired from eating undercooked pork. i was like, this is not true. there are plenty of examples in medical literature that show otherwise. the concern was ignored by the instructor. host: take us back to high school. were you challenged enough in school? caller: no, sir. i would have to say not particularly well. when i graduated high school, i did not have a sound grasp of english grammar skills. i learned later on when i was writing papers and trying to articulate myself to other people.

i think it was >> thank you very much. guest: i think his experience is common. we see across the united states about a third of students who graduate from high school enter into college need remedial courses. even ivy league schools are currently offering remedial courses. i think this underscores the findings of our study that students are not being challenged enough. but the key to challenge and the key to making sure that all students learn is engagement. and we see this a lot in the student survey that students need to trust their teacher. they need to enjoy coming to school. and it starts with that. it starts with that interaction between teachers and students and from there we can build to make sure that students get these richer schools and are prepared then for college. host: california is next. this is david educator.

good morning. caller: my name is dave. i live in a failed school district. both academically and fiscally. i'm actually a high-tech robertics executive and engineer who has spent seven years working on a -- [inaudible] couldn't agree with you more. i just came out with a new report you can see on our website. you can see -- i sent c-span a peg of the data but the state of california is essentially liing to the public. they're professing that we're making great api gains and this report shows that when you adjust those gains based on the need that there's basically api inflation. and when you do that our schools haven't made one bit of progress. and we show you -- i sent you a j peg that shows you the outcomes of real high school students in the most improved

urban school district in california and you will see that not one of their students populations actually passed the test. none of them have made a lick of actual improvement. and we have got kids where we've got to actually go beyond the letter grade f to g and h to properly categorize these students. host: thank you for your perspective. guest: that sounds like a fascinating report. i think we see this issue in our study as well. i think one thing -- and this is specific lay problem in california. the state is lagging behind when it comes to teacher evaluations. for tool teachers were eval -- too long teachers were evaluated against a low ruberic. we need to do a better job giving teachers feedback on how to improve their practice. california is a lagor in this

area. most other states have been taking on this issue. the obama administration has been very smart to race to the top and other initiatives to help states and push states along in creating teacher evaluation systems that are meaningful but also provide that key feedback to teachers in the classroom. how can they do a better job teaching algebra? how can they engage students around the causes of the civil war? this is going to be really deeply important as we want to improve the achievement of all students. host: there is a criticism of your report. guest: so there were a number of criticisms of the report. what we want to do is put data that's been around for a long time out there because of the growing body of research around the importance of student surveys. these are simple frequencies, technical terms to say we just

look at the students who said the is math too easy or too hard? and wanted to put that information out there to create debate, to show and high light what is going on in classrooms today afment lot more sophisticated analysis is needed on this data base and as well as student surveys in general. it sounds like the department of obvious that students are important observers of the classroom experience but we need to do a lot more work on this. can we use this data to give feedback to teach sners can we use this data from student surveys to hold teachers accountable? and i think there's some promising work to be done but more needs to be done. >> as far as the survey is itself, how is it administratored? >> the survey that we used is the background questionnaire of assess nt. there may be folks recall taking the sat or act and there are questions did your parents graduate from college? there were some more detailed

questions like how many pages did you read? and that's what we examined. these new student surveyed, this next generation provides more reliable information that many states are thinking of using to evaluate their teachers. they are quite detailed 20 minutes. it can take as long as 20 minutes for students to fill out these surveys and they provide important insight to what is happening in the classroom. >> from orlando florida. caller: hi. i would like to thank -- i'm not sure -- i would like to thank you for many of the valid points you brought up about what is schalenging students should really look like. i think that you made a good point when you talked about the evaluation system. here in orlando we just recently started with mars ano evaluation system. you made a good point when you

talked about the curriculum. i think it needs to move up. the challenges there, the accountability is there. thing that is students are now doing in kindergarten. they should really introduce those things in pre-k. our curriculum does need to change. but one thing i didn't hear you mention was the accountability for parents. and as educators we can't do much about that but on a national level we need to ensure that -- there was a program that challenged parents to be accountable. we have to do that. host: thank you. guest: i think that is a great point. we need to come together as a community. we need to figure out better ways to make parents engaged in their child's schoolwork. frankly i think we also need to do a better job making sure that policy makers are accountable. but let's go down a little bit into parents. our study found that a third of eighth grade students read less than five pages a day either at

school or at home. experts recommend that middle school stugtse read 1 million words a year. if you are reading less than five pages a day, you are not going to make that target. so parents watching really recommend that you read with your stuentsd. show them the love of reading. how to hold parents accountable i'm not sure we're able to do that but we need to do a better job of making sure we have all the stake holders at the table. and when we think through about how we improve america's classrooms we need to make sure that parents are at the table and that they are a part of how the education system but also a part of how they are involved in their child's education. host: so here is an eighth grade student. good morning. caller: i just wanted to say that in my classes in my math classes we were tested on the skills you need to take two

different tests three or four times a year. and i was put in a pre-algebra which isn't the lowest but it isn't the highest and i was not challenged whatever in the math class. i pretty much breezed by and slept during my math class aferte got my work done because i was not challenged whatever. i had no homework in that class. and in most of my classes i think that kids need to be more challenged and then you put into math classes and in classes that challenge them more. host: so you should have gone on to harder math? kiverageds it's like a repeat of my seventh gread year. it was a complete repeat. and i thought that i needed -- i needed to be more challenged. or host: so was it just math or other subjects? caller: i was challenged in reading and i thought that my reading class was appropriate for my learning level. but it was just math.

math and english were where i needed to excel. and in my school, we have a very small school but we do have programs to where you can be in freshman and even some sophomore classes in your middle school year. and i felt that i did not maybe excel in a lot of kids and they're not good test takers because they do get nervous and they do just -- they don't get it and i don't think that our school system should only be excelled on these types of test that is you take. i think it should be the everyday work. because i got really bored in the everyday work. >> as far as that is concerned how much is that attributable to the teacher involved? >> well, the teacher that i had for my math class it was his first year teaching and he explained it well enough for people that maybe weren't getting the class so much to understand.

like i said it was like on a personal level like i think i was above what i needed to be in that class and it's only because i'm not a very good test taker and i think that the school should take that in because i know a lot of kids get nervous. and it's not just me. and our principal also agrees with this. iowa and all the scoods i don't know about any other state they shouldn't just be based obyour tests and where you are when you test. host: ashton from iowa. guest: the first thing i have to say is you're not alone. we have millions of students across the united states not necessarily as articulate as you, not necessarily watching c-span early on a saturday morning. but they are also reporting not being challenged in their class. and challenge is really important. it is what keeps our attention. video game designers know this when you play a well-designed video game it always increases the challenge. that's what helps keep our

attention. and more than that. students need to be challenged to be prepared for the jobs of the future. if you are not doing algebra in eighth grade in a rigorous way, it is not -- it is likely that you're not going to be on target to do calculus. and that means that you're going to be behind when you get to college. students realize this. the second thing i want to address is the issue of tests. we need tests. tests are an important way to figure out if students are learning but we also need better tests. multiple choice questions are not enough. we need ees say questions. questions that allow students to argue an issue to expand on what they know. we also need more portfolios that allow students to demonstrate what they know and are able to do so that they can involve more of what they have learned in the class room and demonstrate that work. in other words, we need tests that teachers really can teach to and move beyond the current generation of exams that are

off quite limiting. host: this is off of twitter. guest: most teachers are supremely dedicated to their practice. the educational process is built around the idea that all people can learn. and i think in schools today most teachers have the capacity to deliver. schools have the ability to do this currently. are there a few teachers that we might think about moving on from the class rooms? sure. i think most people who observe classrooms today will admit that. but most teachers are dedicated tot practice. they want to help their students learn. what we need to do is give them the tools, give them better text books that aren't watered down that haven't been hijacked by political groups. we need to give them time and

training to learn about how to teach sophisticated ideas like fractions. how to make sure that their population of students learn. the common course standards this reform movement that's under way to set higher standards leaves a lot of latitude to teachers. and i think that's important. how to engage students in wichita or men lo park, in iowa, or the bronx or here in washington, d.c., is going to be different. and we need to make sure that teachers communicate with other teachers and also have that time, the time in their week and their month to figure out what is the best way to challenge and engage students. host: parent from quirk, new mexico. hello. -- albuquerque, new mexico. guest: i was calling on behalf of the testing mechanism. i don't think it adequately measures a child's intellectual ability. they all learn in their own way so i think that does need to be improved. and as he talked about the

portfolios. it displays that the child's understanding the content. and i think that's a good way. and also, i was wondering if you have any comments about a problem solving technique as a way of teaching that challenges the students more. i watched a series on pbs and they were talking about this and they followed students for a while using this technique and it seemed like a lot of his retainment information a lot longer because they did the study and followed kids for a long course of time and when they got to college a lot of students they were in honors didn't wree tain the information and they felt really bad because it wasn't the teachers' fault. but when they used this problem-solving technique -- i know it takes a lot more work on the teacher's behalf but i think i just want to know what you thought about the problem solving technique as a way to teach. >> i think problem solving as a way to teach is something that is quite promising. i think it really depends on the teacher to make sure -- and this is frankly true of many

education reforms. it depends on the teacher and the way that they use that in the classroom. their fidelity to tot the original ideas and it's easy to imagine something like problem solve wrg you're asking a lot of questions of students where students have to form their own answers to go straight and go wrong. but it is like many teaching techniques, if it's done well it can show some success for students. and i think more broadly than that, what we need to do is have more innovation in education. our school system looks the same as it did decades ago when we knew a lot less about what students and how students learn. science has changed so much over the past 50 years and our schools have stayed the same. we have one teacher in front of two dozen or so students. the day starts at :30, ends at 3:30. summer is off. there are a lot more innovative practices going on out there whether it is problem solving

or spending the school day or personalizing learning where we need to do more research, where we need to do more research to understand how this works. but we also need to innovate more. we need to figure out better ways to make sure that all students learn and that all students really learn at a high level than they did 50 years ago. host: we have charter schools now, growing rise in home schooling. aren't those innovations to traditional teaching? >> sure. right now when we look at education system that's sort of the tip of the iceberg but what happens in the vast majority of schools is things haven't changed very much at all when you look over the history and schools have done an excellent job of pushing away change. so charter schools are an important way to help us think through innovations and when we think about some of the innovation that is we have seen in schools like a longer school day many of them have come out of charter schools. now charter schools aren't perfect. we also need to maybe shut down

some innovations. there are some charter schools out there that weren't meeting the needs of students. and home schooling heppings us think through and move away issues like seat time like students need to go to school at the end of fall and end of summer and we shouldn't stop students to move on to the next sunt. so these are helpful and can be powerful. but we need to make sure that our public school system is out there to meet the needs of all students often home schooled students come from more advantaged backgrounds and think about how we can scale up innovation. host: this is a former student from arkansas. robert, go ahead. caller: how are you? queel go to the next call.

paul is an educator. go ahead. caller: i'm an educator and a parent and the question i have got is, has anybody done a study on the detriment to the national educational programs? because all you keep talking about is all students, all students. now, as you well know as an educator whatever it is there is a thing called the normal bell curve and the -- across the spread of many kind of universe of students there are so many students that are over to the right three standard deviations to the right and there's certain number of students three standard deviations to the left. what i say is you say all students. you know, and what i feel is happening is because of kennedy and the special education program -- and i've got a master's in special education and i don't know what the solution is to the problem is but i don't think you can ask a teacher to develop the students that are three standard

deviations to the right when you're also working with students that are three standard deviations to the left. i feel like mainstreaming and special education and the tons of money that is being spent on the students that are three standard deviations to the left has generated a detriment to the students that are three standard deviations to the right. guest: i think the caller brings up an interesting question. can we really educate all students? there are a small small percentage of special needs students who might not be able to be main streamed. they're a small percentage. and i think this debate over whether or not we can help all students learn is really hidse an important fact. and that is this. disadvantaged students -- and our study showed this -- are less likely to be engaged in rigorous learning material. disadvantaged students are less likely to have effective teachers. they are more likely though to

be in schools that don't get their fair shot at school funds. so i do think that as a society we need to do a better job of making sure that all students, regardless of their family background, have access to a rigorous background -- have access to a rigorous education. and we need this for a number of reasons. one, this is part of america's promise. this is part of the promise of our public school system. and we also need to be clear here. right now today for the job of the future we need a h.r. professionals to have a deep understanding of mathematics. we need to make sure that even a plummer or other mechanics also really have a robust knowledge of english. all students need to be prepared for the modern world. they need to be prepared for a career and for college. and right now many of our schools are not delivering on that promise. host: focusing on teachers.

teaching only attracts solid b students wefment don't pay our teachers enough. we get what we pay for. guest: i think wetch we have a lot of issues with the way we pay teachers. we don't do enough to award our very best teachers. we have very simple and i think narrow minded salary schedules that give extra money to teachers with a master's degree but don't give extra money to teachers who really show effectiveness in the classroom. i think a lot can be done to improve the way that we pay teachers. and we need more innovations in that area and paying teachers more is certainly going to be a part of that. host: this is a parent from tennessee. caller: thank you for taking my call. if i could make a very brief statement and ask a question. i understand that we need better teachers. i understand that educational programs need more money. what i never hear discussed is the kind of student that we are delivering to our schools.

the student that comes from a home that understands how to behave, that goes to bed at night because a parent knows enough to put the child into bed well fed at a reasonable hour who is not up watching tv or who is not at basketball practice until 8:00 or 9:00 at night and then come home, is brought home and expected to do homework at that time. i'm in my 50s. i went to a prokeyl school but was very average middle class school. we had 30 to 40 children but we knew how to behave. we got up in the morning, we had gone to bed at 7:00 at night. it was such a different time. children don't know how to behave and teachers are expected to teach them. children have no respect. i know i'm making a broad generalization but all of the listeners and you yourself would have to admit if you go into the classrooms it is appalling how our children behave. and yet we expect our teachers

to teach them when they're not really receptive. so my question to you is this. we are very willing to blame teachers. we are very willing to say to our politicians put more money into the programs. no one -- and how do you get someone to honestly truthfully address our society and our young parents about how to raise their children? guest: great question. and i think the answer is a sophisticated one. and, here. the bottom line is this. students who come from troubled homes are going to have more problems in school. it's going to be more challenging to teach those students. we need to be honest and up front about that. we need to also do a better job of communicating to parents how they can encourage their students to learn at home. we often see a big summer learning loss because students during that summertime are not being engaged in academic materials. they are not reading, they're

not doing math. and so we need to make sure that we make sure that community members as well as parents are engaged. but at the same time, we can't sort of give up and we can't just say that students from disadvantaged backgrounds can't learn. and there's a reason for that. students from disadvantaged backgrounds can learn and they can learn at very high levels. we've seen many schools some here in washington, d.c. as well as around the country show that students from disadvantaged backgrounds can achieve at high levels even if they come from troubled back grouppeds. we need to learn from those schools around the country that do well with students from disadvantaged backgrounds. and this no excuse approach is an important one and it's one that has shown some success. the question is how can we scale it up? how can we get more schools around this issue? make sure that we give the tools and to teachers?

by extending the school day, spending our dollars more productively to make sure that those students are able to achieve? host: north carolina, a student. good morning. go ahead. caller: i would just like to make a couple of suggestions on what you need to do. i think one of the big things standing in the way is the teachers unions because they're trying to block reforms to protect their tenure. i think the quality of teachers is decreasing because we don't offer enough incentive to get the best people. i think the number of teachers to student ratio in the classroom is way too large. also, corporal punishment. people need to understand that pain is not harm. that embarrassing the student sometimes doesn't destroy the self-image. it only hum bles it. also, our learning structure. in germany after eighth grade they're sending kids academic route or a skill route. we are putting millions of 18-year-olds into the workforce

with no skills. nothing to offer anybody. and also the parents. the moral degradation of society has caused poor parent raising and it's having an effect. the whole system -- everything is connected. so a lot of issues in other areas are destroying education systems. but also the main thing -- host: you will have to leave it there because we're running out of time. guest: i want to make sure that we're not blaming teachers within this conversation. teachers work very, very hard each day. they care about their practice. the issue in many ways is that we're not supporting them enough. we are often giving them text books that really aren't addressing key issues. that are watered down that they cover the same topic again and again. that don't give them those key tools. can we improve our teaching practices? absolutely. do we need to give kids more concrete skills? absolutely. and many times those concrete skills are what engage students. right? they want to learn in the

hands-on way. they want to know that their learning has practical applications. how can we do that? making sure that teachers are at the table when these conversations occur. making sure that when we implement these changes that teachers are a key part of that. >> one more call. tennessee, we've got about two minutes left. so if you can wrap up your thoughts in about 30 or 45 seconds. caller: my concern is regards to research. research material as well as teacher preparation information for, as they call it ratcheting up. we have an extensive program. but my concern is we don't receive resources in a timely enough manner in order to support this movement. i have a group of teachers and we have a -- group who embrace but our concern is resources are not coming into the buildings, into the states at a rate that's going to allow us to keep up. but we will receive expectations in order to meet the necessary test requirements

in order to move students. host: thank you. guest: that's an important question. the standards are being ratched up but are teachers getting the money and the tools that they need? i think that in schools we often see that money can be spent more wisely. we often see money tied up in quite frankly inefficient ways. so we pay teachers more to have master's degrees even though a master's degree does not actually make a teacher necessarily more effective. teachers need to be able to go get training in the professional development that they need to improve in the classroom but we need to spend our money more wisely. early learning can also pay great dividends but we're also spending money on things that aren't particularly effective. reducing class size in the upper grades. the research is pretty clear it does not do much to improve student outcomes.