is a member of the budget and ways and means committee. we will focus on the cost of health care with amanda bennett, executive editor at bloomberg news and a contributor for newsweek magazine. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. after fundraisers in texas on tuesday, president obama back at the white house today. this morning have a series of meetings with his dagger culture secretary and others to discuss the drought and heat waves. this afternoon, meetings with secretary clinton and panetta. reporting romney will announce his vice- presidential running mate after the summer olympics, which begin later this month.

it is wednesday, july 18. on the campaign trial, the attacks are getting intense. the tone is negative. we want to begin with your comments on this election. our phone lines are open. 202-737-0001 for democrats. 202-737-0002 for republicans. 202-628-0205 for independents. to in the conversation on twitter -- or send us an e-mail. journal@c-span.org. here is how the story is playing out this morning. here is a photograph of mitt romney yesterday in cincinnati. the 2012 attacks intensified as battle prolines are drawn. "the washington times" -- both campaigns positively-at an earlier stage. during the 2008 race, president

obama described a negative campaign as the refuge of candidates who do not have their record to run on. he now has a record in is going- on his republican opponent with a vengeance. from "politico" -- the dark heart of negative advertising. one reason so many campaigns contributions and on fighting negative advertisements -- the pleasure of elections is to say no to some person or ibm. the article is devoted to the areability that voter sos pulling leverage. many romney voters believe that obama is establishing a beachhead socialism and the ghost of bill clinton could be

in d.c. host: here are some of the latest advertisement just released. we will begin with the romney campaign. [video clip] >> i am mitt romney and i approve this message. >> when a president does not tell the truth, how can we trust him? the obama outsourcing tax. there was no evidence that mitt romney ship jobs overseas. obama lied about hillary clinton take o'shea minute, barack obama. >> america expects more from the president. host: the latest from the romney campaign. "the washington post" on some of the attacks by the obama campaign. this is a serious charge that

romney may be a felon. host: this is from twitter -- host: to in the conversation at

twitter.com. [video clip] >> tax havens, parkshore accounts, mitt romney has used every trick in the book. he admits he has been less than 15% in taxes on 43 million in income. it makes you wonder if he paid any taxes at all. we do not know because he has released only one full year of his returns. he will not release anything before 2010. >> i put out as much as i will put out. >> what is he hiding? host: is from the obama campaign. "the new york times" -- the peace points out the overarching dispute is taxes for mitt romney and the view of the government might lift the economy.

host: give us a phone call at 202-737-0001 for democrats. 202-737-0002 for republicans. if you are an independent, call 202-628-0205. good morning. caller: him from florida. i have seen the ads on television. it is ridiculous how they would think we are not intelligent enough to read the papers, to do the research on the internet. it is appalling that both of

these candidates would do that. they just will not tell the truth. it is a bunch of lies mixed in with trees. it is ridiculous. host: okay. thank you for the copier on twitter -- host: "stables' versus solyndra." mitt romney to make a better argument for bain capital. can a president seeking re- election really be winning the jobs argument against the man who back hundreds of businesses? host: mr. romney may have

thought that debating being was a risk factor in -- was a distraction. with obama using bain as his argument against mr. romney's record as a job creator, the republican has no choice but to fight back or he will lose the election. americans will choose thing capitalism over solyndra if mr. romney makes the case. next is elizabeth from portland, oregon. good morning. caller: i have been observing the political scene now since the 2008 elections. i came very close to voting for obama but decided i did not really like john mccain. i suspected obama was not everything he said he was. i did not vote for him. when he was elected, i thought let us sit back and watch. they're talking about creating

jobs with infrastructure. i just sat back and waited. frankly, i hope that i was wrong. we have all of these are elected czars, the amazing spending going on. the craziness that went in on the first two years of congress with the democrats dominating everything. he never mentioned jobs once. until they got their heads handed to them in the midterm elections. the whole thing with gm were the stockholders were screwed over in favor of the unions. the attacks on arizona, who were just trying to protect their borders. you know, it is not only not the right way, but it was way worse than i suspected. i think that what the republicans ought to be doing reminding people of all

the things that happened in the first two years. stimuit stimulated the rise of the tea party and his big referendum. who cares whether -- this whole business about romney taxes we have been hearing, the democrats are screaming about heating rich people and they love the kennedys. indeed there are a whole lot of soap bubbles being floated here. if republicans want to win, they need to remind everybody but the democrats have been doing. host: thank you/ . -- host: that is a common based on "the new york times." romney gets out a gun when the rapid response to obama -- even

as mitt romney campaigned yesterday, the obama campaign preempted him -- host: here is more for mitt romney yesterday. [video clip] >> there is something else that has to stop. i believe you know about this. the history of our country is a country where individuals with their dreams go out and begin an enterprise like this one here. they go out and talk to friends and family and say what you loaned us the money? people scurried to get the cash. they buy a building like they bought this one. sometimes successfully, sometimes not. that is how we have done it. that is very different than the way they have done it in other countries. the government will come in and based on who you and in government -- to you know in

government, you get dollars. that is happening today. i am ashamed to say that we are seeing our president hand out money to the businesses of campaign contributors. when he gave money $500 million to a company that makes high-end electric cars and they make the cars now in finland, that is wrong. that has to stop. that kind of crony capitalism does not create jobs -- i believe in free people in free- market. i want government to get -- [applause] host: mitt romney campaigning in pennsylvania yesterday outside of pittsburgh. the president was in texas for a series of fund-raisers. a couple of stories today on the m.v.p. selection process. we will get to that in a moment. here is what some of you are saying on facebook --

host: those three comments on our facebook page. facebook.com/cspan. helen is on the phone on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. regarding negative campaign messages, it is a double-edged sword. on one hand, i really do not like to listen to the back-and- forth. i think in many ways, it is very thought-provoking. for example, the mitt romney tax issue -- i was just thinking about the bloomberg news report about a week ago with a wealth of the mormon church. just like the catholic church.

it made me think about the mormon faith and about the romney devotion to their faith, which is a wonderful thing. they have given millions of dollars to the church, which is a wonderful thing. if you read a little bit further, you come to understand that a lot of the mormon church and investment are in bain capital derivatives in holdings. to me, that raises the whole issue of the relationship between faith and our objective one can be as president of the u.s. something i really had not thought of before. i am obviously an obama supporter and i am not anti- mormon but that raises those kinds of questions. i think people should be considering these questions. host: 85.

that go to baton rouge, louisiana. good morning. what impact does this have on your caller: vote caller: -- on your vote? caller: i do not think it is there that everybody haulers for romney to -- i do not think it is fair everybody is calling for romney to give more records. how about obama? let us have some records from him. nobody says anything like that. we want to see his college records, his medical records, and all of his records. but, nobody, not anybody, even as c-span, never says anything like that. i would like to see who he is.

half the country don't have any idea who he is and what his background is. who his friends were. and his mentor over in hawaii. nothing. we never hear a peep from the media. and every day, we see about romney meeting to bring more records. let us see some of president obama's records. host: sam, thank you very much. "the new york times" -- this story of the election process for mitt romney's running mate.

host: some related stories from "the new york times" -- a focus on chris christie as he courts the spotlight to join the ticket. a headline from "the miami herald" rubio sliding off romney's short list. back to your calls. from new york. independent line. good morning. go ahead. caller: yes, hello. i would like to say -- i would like to address the caller that was less speaking. ok. i am looking at all of this rhetoric back-and-forth. it is kind of exciting seeing

the democrats fight back. for so long, they have been taking it. right now, they are fighting back. they are showing mitt romney can. i am in favor of barack obama. what he said was like they want to see other papers from barack obama's side. come on, donald trump was calling for his birth records. that is not true. i am favoring barack obama. have a nice day. host: thank you. here is the headline -- the 2012 attacks intensified. the battle lines are drawn. the president in cincinnati, one of the key battleground cities, going after mitt romney. here is president obama. [video clip]

>> i have a different idea. for example, governor romney says he would extend the tax cuts for the wealthiest americans indefinitely. he says until he puts a tax plan in place, but the tax plan is not just to keep the bush tax cuts. he wants to put another $five trillion -- it is almost impossible for you to bring down the deficit. nearly 40% of these new taxes would go to the top 1%. we have not found any serious economic studies that says governor romney's plan would actually create jobs. i have to be honest. today, we found out there is a new study by non-board is an economist at say governor

romney's economic plan would create 800,000 jobs. there is one problem. the jobs would not be in america. [applause] they would be in other countries. eliminate taxes on corporations foreign income, governor romney's plan would encourage companies to shift operations to foreign tax havens, creating 800,000 jobs in those other countries. now, this should not be a surprise because romney's experience has been investing in what was called pioneers of the business of outsourcing. now, he wants to give more tax breaks to companies that are shipping jobs overseas. i want everybody to understand -- i have a different theory. we do not need a president who

plans to ship more jobs overseas. or wants to give more tax breaks to companies that are shipping jobs overseas. i want to give tax breaks to companies that are investing right here in ohio. [applause] that are investing in cincinnati. hamilton county. host: that was earlier this week as the president campaigned in ohio. a couple of related editorials -- "the wall street journal" -- mitt romney need to bake a better argument for being capitalism. obama's south side chicago fell of the -- chicago thuggery. a couple of related

editorials on the outlook for the campaign. still three and a half months before the election. james is on the phone from arkansas. democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to reiterate an earlier caller. what governor romney is actually doing -- democrats need to listen. this is what he would not show the tax returns. governor romney is a mormon. he is one of the head persons. he is taking gagne's money and invested his money. he pays 60% of his income. he gave charity to himself because he is a mormon. he is using this money to invest. there is no way romney would show his tax return. it would show how he is using

his religion as a tax shelter and taking millions of dollars -- host: thank you. here is "the washington post" --

host: inside "the washington post. from twitter -- host: from seattle, one of our viewers in an e-mail -- host: next is joe from ohio. republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i am a republican. i will be honest with you, mitt romney would not be my first choice. i have reservations. that being said, i think mitt romney should just quit being so

secretive. just like the other articles you just read, he will not release his tax returns, which tells me and other people that he is hiding something. he feels he would be better off than hiding it because it will hurt him. just like the thing with being capital about shipping jobs overseas. he says he was not in charge of that. his own company, bain capital, says he was here he refuses to release the minutes of the meetings to show if he was or not. if he keeps writing, he will never get elected because people will not trust him. host: thank you. later today3 on today, the testimony of ben bernanke. he will talk about the economy . watch it live on c-span3 at 10:00 a.m. eastern the money section of "usa today" --

host: the economy, taxes, and fiscal cliff are the issues that came up yesterday as a familiar figure on capitol hill returned. this is a photograph from "the new york times." dick cheney. we are joined by a reporter from "mihill." first of all, what was the message of the vice-president? what did he tell republicans? guest: the message was

sequestration, which is the plan that went into effect after the super committee failed to cut $1.2 billion -- $1.2 trillion from the national deficit. if they went through, that would devastate national security. that was basically the message that i took and others took from the meeting host: you also -- from the meeting. host: you also mentioned that defense cuts. what was the message from the vice president on that? guest: on the specifics states,

he basically just said that those specific cuts would have a devastating effect on the economy at large. when you take into account those job losses in the defense sector, specifically in those states you mentioned, it would -- a lot of folks would run up the overall unemployment numbers, which would be bad for the administration and the country. that was pretty much the focus on those specific states. host: this is a headline from "the richmond times." more than 200,000 job losses. the state of virginia could be the number two loser if congress cannot avert a budget crisis. who joined the vice-president in

these meetings? guest: pick it was basically house and senate republican -- it was basically house and senate republican leaders. as well as folks who are tied to defense and national security issues such as the house armed services chairman buck mckeon and john mccain. those were some of the folks who were in attendance. host: before we let you go, one comment -- the presentation was blunt. how blood? guest: short of being in their message was fairly blunt. we have heard this argument regarding sequestration pick up steam in recent days.

as lawmakers in the house and the senate both try and find some sort of compromise, there is a sense that time is running out. if these cuts are scheduled to go into effect by jan.. folks and the defense industry side are already preparing to send out notices to their work forces that they may have to be let go, considering some of the uncertainty regarding future contracts that are now put into question because of the sequestration threat. not having been in the room, it would make perfect sense that the message was fairly straightforward that the deal me to be reached at some . set up. host: checked out thehill.com. thank you for sharing. here are two headlines from "the

new york times." host: he is related headline from "the washington post."

host: we'll be focusing on this later the two members of congress. if your talking about negative campaigns and whether or not he does influencing your vote. . the latest from the republican national committee. [video clip] >> he raised over $500,000 for obama's campaign. hippa per the investments have received 500 million taxpayer dollars. key was appointed to a top advisory role. his website says he is positioned to take advantage of billions. >> what does obama like? here is where the federal government is putting money? whenever he likes, that is what

i like. >> he got half a billion dollars. the middle class is not doing fine. >> the republican national committee is responsible for the content of this advertising. host: that is from the republican national committee. we go to wisconsin. good morning. welcome to the "washington journal." caller: i have a couple of questions. i am an independent voter. i have listened to the democrats and they are repeating what the media says on those news channels. a lot of the republicans are repeating what they are hearing on the news channels that they watch. i would like to see instead of people just repeating what they hear, that they start getting on the internet, reading the paper, doing research to find out information for themselves because the negative advertising really does not bother me, but

there ari lot of things that are left out because they take everything out of context. the second thing that with it eddie is-- add is, can c-span talk about the gun control treaty on behalf of the united states? it is through the u.n. -- that means this is the beginning of gun control in the u.s. i think this is extremely important. this is july 27. i think c-span should bring this to the attention of the american people. i like this channel because you bring everything up. it has not been really talked about on regular tv. just on some cable. is there any way -- host: yes. we have been following that. the secretary of state and that -- is back in washington. thank you for the call.

from joseph ramirez, one of our frequent tweeters -- host: "the new york post" -- of the headline from this tabloid. pipa host: of some of john sununu -- the comments of john sununu were retracted and he apologized. let us watch. [video clip] >> i made a mistake.

i should not have used those words. i apologize for using those words. i do not apologize for the idea that this president has demonstrated that he does not understand how jobs are created. he thinks that jobs are created through your contributors. the president has to stop degrading american values. he makes success a terrible thing. he is sending the wrong message that if you get rich, you are evil. host: that is from cnn yesterday with "the situation room." john sununu apologized for questioning the president to attack american is a winning into jobs. -- americanism when it came to jobs. caller: i do not like the idea that the mainstream media is not

covering all of what is being said, especially mitt romney's site back. obama has been able to light and perpetuate all kinds of things because he has nothing to run on. it is sickening to me to see how can just make up lies and go with it. if you say it enough and do not hear the counter, people believe it. obama has insult to americans from the moment he took office. i predicted he would not put his hand on the bible. he did. he missed up the word . in the white house, he did not put his hand on the bible. it was no longer necessary. he has consulted police officers -- he has in so that police officers from the moment he took

office. expect-othing to a suspec insulting. he has done nothing for our nation. he has trampled on the constitution. that is not being portrayed in the liberal media. host: thank you from the call. "the boston globe." host: all of the foreign money flowing into republicans, he writes -- bob has this . said in an e-mail --

host: from steve who lives in kentucky, the tax reform will be a big issue -- host: next is steve from georgia. democrats' line. good morning. caller: yes, sir. you know, let me begin by saying that my comments represent my own views, not anything i have seen on tv or anything like the

other lady said. i do my own research. i watch c-span. i see for myself. just listening to people and how they are able to put on these blinders and pretend that reality does not exist. i watched when mitt romney had all of these blistering attacks against new to gingrich -- newt gingrich. the hypocrisy is outstanding. this gentleman from louisiana that said nobody ever asks to see the president's records, they do not know who he is -- in a separate you from your citizenship so they can justify their bigotry. the president has produced --

donald trump sent out a team of investigators to look for the president's records. he was going around celebrating how he made the president produce those records. even with all of that, people are not satisfied. they said nobody did anything. host: thank you. from facebook -- host: we want to . this out from the front page of "the

washington post." here is a photograph of the washington post retiree back in 2005. the pulitzer prize-winning columnist eliminate conflicts concerning education -- he was one of the first black journalist to gain wide following in the mainstream media. he died this week at his home in washington. he was 76. he wrote an opinion column for "the post" for 40 years before retiring. more than 200 newspapers carried his syndicated column, which was filtered through his own experiences growing up in the segregated south. he died at the age of 76 this week. next is richard from florida. good morning. welcome to the program. caller: good morning. you know, it amazes me when i hear the media at tak romney --

attack romney. i am not for either one of the candidates. we could do a lot better than both of them. romney and bain capital, they have to go back to 1999 to find something on this guy. they really have not come up with anything substantial. however, all i have to do is just pick up a piece of paper and read where frank marshall davis was a communist mentor for president obama. he has the same philosophy as president obama. someone who worked with obama in chicago was arrested -- he worked on the scam that dealt

with building apartment buildings. a domestic terrorist blew up buildings and killed people and pride about it in the 1992 debt when he said he did not do enough. these are all close associate of president obama. if any person -- i work with the federal government for 40 years. if you had any of those associations in your background, do most likely could not get a security clearance. that would keep you out of any job. we have the president of the united states who, on a daily basis, celsius with that kind of people. host: thank you. here is our last call. i want to bring your attention to this photograph in "the new york times." it is so difficult to get inside syria. there is new evidence that president assad is moving troops into damascus from the borders

with the disputed golan heights in territory. it is possible sign of the seriousness of the fighting. the epicenter of the damascus fighting remained in the southwest were street battles erupted on sunday. particularly where rebel fighters concentrated after mr. assad chased them from the surrounding quarters. here is one child was injured. the death toll in the last 14 months is close to 15,000. some say that number could be much higher. this related story from "time" magazine -- host: our last call is from ohio. republican line. go ahead, please. caller: good morning, c-span.

on the negative campaigns -- when you have the president talking about being capital and all of that. there was a lady on their yesterday talking about romney and his outsourcing. nobody is talking about obama and his outsourcing. how many jobs did mr. obama create before he was a president? thank you. host: the point has been batted back to his date of birth in the 1960's. thank you for your calls and comments. as well as your e-mails. we continue the conversation in just a moment with two members of congress. we will begin with joe wilson. later, bill pascrell. we will talk about sequestration, defense cuts. it is wednesday, t july 18.

we are back in just a couple of moments. >> this weekend on "american history t d" -- 30 years of the administration has done more to confirm the prediction of the rich getting richer and everyone else falling behind. >> from lectures in history, socialism in america. we talk about the rise of socialism in the 20th century. saturday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. sunday more from "the contenders." this week, thomas dewey rose to fame prosecuting depression-era gangsters. he lost twice. at 7:30 p.m., "american history td" on c-span3.

>> it was about those men and women who are almost mortally injured in war. who, because of the huge advances that have been made in medical trauma treatment over the last 10 years are being saved. an incredible number of them. almost everybody who falls in the battlefields is being saved. i wanted to write about what life was like for these people. i started off with a question having seen some people who were pretty gruesome remained. it wouldn't it be better off if they were dead? >> his 10 part poser winning series for "the huffington post" and in the subsequent article, he spoke with combat medics,

therapists, and nurses on the daily struggles for those severely wounded in military operations. learn more sunday at 8:00 p.m. on c-span's "q&a." >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome congressman joe wilson, republican of south carolina. there is a hearing today looking at sequestration. here is a headline based on the testimony yesterday. ben bernanke telling congress to take action. warning of another recession without a plan for the deficit. lots to talk about. first of all, on chairman bernanke's comments about what we are facing. guest: thank you for having me back. we are talking about a fiscal cliff. the front page of "the washington post" expressed concern. congress should act. i want people to know the house has acted here we have passed a budget in march.

this budget would address the issue of sequestration that will be discussed in a minute. it will address the issues of increasing taxes. additionally, we have past reconciliations in may. they address this. also, the defense of their race and act -- authorization act passed legislation addressing sequestration in the fiscal cliff. sadly, this is not being considered in the senate. i tell you this very sadly that the senate has not adopted a budget in three years. there is a graveyard of legislation and the senate should act and then aged go to a conference committee and we could reach agreement on the behalf of the american people. host: sequestration is coming about because of the inability to deal with some symbols. is that not emblematic of the partisan divide? you talk about the senate. mitch mcconnell and harry reid saying the republicans are not

negotiating in good faith. the back-and-forth continues. guest: it is a partisan divide. it is a divide between the house and the senate. the house is passing legislation. we passed 31 bills which would help the private sector create jobs. they are being held out in the senate. the budget itself, again, the thought that our u.s. senate has not passed a budget is inconceivable. yet, it is done for politics. i served in the senate of south carolina. by not passing the budget, the senate members avoid a responsibility. by not having recorded votes, whoever they meet with they can say i am for you. i believe senator reid is playing politics. that is the future of the country. the future of a strong national defense, putting our country at risk. additionally, we see a fiscal cliff. the acknowledged that senator allow thethey would allied th

country to go over the fiscal cliff. host: virginia has the potential of losing 200,000 jobs as a result of this sequestration. south carolina is a big military state. what impact does it have on your state? guest: we have the army training facility i represent. we have an entry for marines on the east coast. this has a catastrophic effect. interestingly enough, this is most affected -- a place that does not have a single defense facility. contractors jobs are at risk. we know that with sequestration, and nearly 1 million jobs could be lost. according to "cq" -- over 200,000 jobs in virginia, it would be most catastrophic for that state. we know that it is a thing i

will be talking about. the civilian work force could be reduced by 10%. it is in effect across the board. sequestration is misunderstood. the debt ceiling bill last august by -- there was a provision for the super committee and there was an armageddon provision, which i think is wrong. was there. that is the reduction of spending for defense and the non-offense of 1.2 trillion dollars which would kick in on january 2, 2013. january. the consequence of that is it was supposed to be in agreement. i was skeptical from the beginning. there was no agreement. i truly was not a naysayer. my view was hopefully -- i was

hopeful, but it would have not . we are facing catastrophic job loss. the number has been adjusted to 2.1 4 million jobs. it was restored. it would increase the unemployment rate in our country from 8.2%, which is already a record high, to 8.9%. this is so wrong in need to be addressed. we have reconciliation. this was addressed in the national defense of your station and here we have passed this three times. i would hope the senate would take this up. lindsey gramm said the john mccain -- they all have come up with proposals to address this. host: this is the headline from "the atlanta journal

constitution." host: let me put some numbers on the table. just related to the defense industry, private sector positions could result in as many as 750,000 job losses. 100,000 manufacturing jobs. virginia, california, and texas are hardest hit. guest: people of ohio need to know that they are in direct line of fire. this needs to be addressed. i have to point out that ben bernanke is a native of south carolina. i am predisposed to get him high regard. the people need to be listening to his concerts anthony to listen to secretary leon panetta. they should be listened to. my main concern is weakening of

the defense. what is occurring is to reduce the army's to the lowest level since 1939. that indicates the weakness of result. 1939 is when joseph stalin and adolf hitler were working together and fell like the west did not have a result. that led to world war ii. we will have the smallest baby in almost 100 years. 1916. we will have the smallest airforce since it was created in 1947. it is putting american people at risk. it is sending the wrong message of around the world. our enemies believe we do not have resolved. they laugh about the americans and the israelis. they laugh that we do not have resolved. they laugh that we have to watch. we have the technology. they have the time. and this is really putting our country at risk. this should not be. host: when you look at the military and the challenges that we face as a country, 9/11 did not happen because of a country, it happened because of

terrorists. is it a new paradigm? a new type of military we need to face the challenges? guest: we need to be ready for everything. we cannot anticipate -- we did not anticipate pearl harbor. we did not anticipate the attacks of 9/11. we need to be prepared. i appreciate your bringing it up. for the potential of rogue states having nuclear weapons that could be used in american cities. we have to be prepared that the ballistic missile system of iran is being advanced. we have to be prepared that even the destitute north korea is developing nuclear weapons and a missile technology that could hit alaska, hawaii, guam. american territories are a risk. even our hemisphere, we of hugo

chavez, who is in collaboration with hezbollah. we have to face these enemies. weekend. we have the best military and the world. i have four sons serving. two have served in iraq. i served 31 years. i know we have the best military. we must not put them at risk. we are putting our troops at risk with the cuts that the president has proposed. host: our guest is joe wilson. he is in his sixth term in the house of representatives from south carolina. the phone lines are open. send us an e-mail, journal@c- span.org or join us on facebook or twitter. facebook.com/cspan. let me bring up one point that if these layoffs take effect, there is a 60 day requirement in

order to go through. that means the layoffs would take effect in january, 60 days would be early november before the election. guest: november 2. i would assume that the companies of want to comply. i would say that in the middle of october, many union members of ohio will find out that they are affected. this will have a big consequence. that is why we need to address it now. of these the committee could be a political benefit to governor romney if this is not acted on. that is not right. we should act on it. the house has acted. the senate needs to act. we have three times addressed to this. we will be voting today. i am pleased. we will put about sequester to force the administration to let us know what the cuts he is proposing. host: here are your

host: good morning. caller: yes. i think there is mistakes with the contractors in iraq. dick cheney made $73 million since we have been in iraq. the hair one that has come over is now 76% more -- the heroin that has come over is now 76 more. the republicans won the house on creating jobs, and i've not seen any, so what are they doing there? guest: i am glad you asked. we have passed over 30 bills. we oppose bonus depreciation to include -- encourage small businesses to buy new equipment to become more efficient. sadly, as i indicated, we should

truly be working together with the senate would vote on these bills, go to a conference committee and there would be a compromise on both sides. the senate is not acting. i am proud of speaker john boehner. he has helped to lead the effort. i am also grateful to the chairman of the house armed services committee, but mckeon, who is come up with a plan to avoid sequestration without increasing taxes. host: admitting that government spending creates jobs? guest: yes, it does, but the difference between defense spending, which is a primary function by the constitution to provide primary defense, what we found with the stimulus bill the president had was that it was a

temporary spending measure. it became a mockery. when we could look up jobs created, there were as the 26 the district of south carolina. we only wish we had 26 districts. we are beginning a seat. we have seven. we know defense is the primary function of our national government. its coat amy. georgia. thank you for waiting. -- host:. -- host: amy. georgia. thank you for waiting. caller: the stimulus was made a mockery of by republicans, and is this fiscal cliff not what you want, so companies are out of work, and obama takes the blame for it? guest: absolutely not.

we want people to have fulfilling lives and have good jobs. hi introduced legislation for accounting of the stimulus bill that did not go anywhere. there was supposed to be a commission the president was going to support. he did not. you need to be aware that at the time the democrats had controlled of the house, senate and the presidency. if we want to put blame, it is very clear. it was president obama, speaker nancy pelosi, and harry reid. we do not want the country to go over the cliff. it was a democratic senator that said this could happen. in need to be aware that the president has said he does not mind if sequestered goes into effect, which is sad because it puts the military at risk in our country at risk. long term, as president ronald

reagan did, we need a strong national defense. host: let me get your reaction to an idea that was floated yesterday and this morning on the front page of "the new york times." it proposes a novel way. allow the tax cuts to expire, and then propose another tax cut. guest: that is kicking the can down the road. we should be acting now. some of this is his are anticipating 21 new taxes coming -- small businesses are anticipating 21 new taxes coming. it should not be a cloud of uncertainty. we should address this now.

host: this is a photograph of dick cheney, back on capitol hill. were you part of any meetings that he had? guest: i was. he expressed great concern about the dangers to our country. he pointed out something the american people need to know, and that is the 9/11 attacks with box cutters and airplane tickets -- the next terrorist could easily, with the encouragement of iran or north korea, or venezuela, be providing for a small-scale nuclear attack on our country and he indicated his concern about that. we have to secure our borders. we have the potential for persons to come through our country, or to be off the coast

in a way that would put our country at risk. his concerns were genuine about the status of our national defense. host: we're talking with congressman joe wilson on the fiscal cliff and a meeting that took place with dick cheney. colorado springs. jane. caller: good morning. i come from a military family. my son did four tors in iraq and just got that from afghanistan. i think we need to get out of the senseless wars and commit our military to working on the borders and helping our country with natural disasters. you also need to be honest with the american people and admit that we need cuts and income. you claim that they're rich our job creators. i have been an accountant for many years, and many of them do

not pay any tax at all. you need to be associate with grover norquist if you want to have a successful election. thank you for the work that you do. guest: thank you for your families service and your profession. i realize i was in a parallel universe here when i was first elected in washington 10 years ago when a democratic member announced that accountants were crooks. i do not think that accountants are crooks. i think they serve a vital function. as a realistic attorney i would not do anything without needing a -- real-estate attorney, i would not do anything without meeting with an accountant two sons of mine served in iraq. i appreciate your son serving. i know the key attacks of 9/11 originated from caves in afghanistan.

i give president obama credit. he provided for a surge of troops. he was right. that is how we can stabilize that country. we cannot allow safe havens for terrorism anywhere in the world. these people have every intent to destroy every american. maybe first destroy every israeli. we must take positive steps. the american military can do it. i can remember prime minister tony blair speaking to congress and he said a call if not america, who -- "if not america, who?" i am so proud of your son's service. he makes it possible for us to be here today freedom of speech. that does not intend of our enemy. host: our guest is joe wilson. ben this comment --

guest: well, first of all, i did vote for tarp, but i thought that would be like the resolution trust corp., where you would buy assets and sell them off, so the money was diverted. that should end instead of a bailout. -- what should have happened instead of the bailout is truly a reorganization. we know in south carolina could have profitable automobile manufacturing. south carolina is the leading state today exporting vehicles due to bmw, which is non-union. what should have happened is not government intervention, but reorganization. those companies would have been healthier and have a long-term prospect.

what the president did was temporary and we need to be looking long term. host: what about your election promise two and four years ago about jobs, jobs, jobs? all your party has done is blocking democratic legislation. guest: i hope they will listen. sincerely, we passed 31 bills. that is the tip of the iceberg. i am grateful. in the district directors and i work closely with governor niki hilly, with government officials to encourage employment, even green energy. i have worked with biomass, creating hundreds of jobs to rock the region. i've worked closely with bridgestone tire, which is doubling. i've worked for jobs and the keystone pipeline. i always like to point out that

the tires i visited were made by michelin. these are 12-foot high tires. 500 people make these tires. french investment in south carolina. we are working four jobs in our district by way of legislation, but sadly the president has blocked the keystone pipeline, which is the safest way to transport oil. host: new jersey. independent line. dawn with representative joe wilson. caller: good morning. if you put the sequestration in place because the super committee could not come up with an agreement, and now congress is backpedaling. i do not understand. if you are serious, you try to put a mechanism in place to address it, and you do not want to address it.

no wonder congress's approval rating is in the tank. you say you want to do it. when it comes time to tackle it, you backpedal. i do not get it. guest: i appreciate you bring in all of this up. we voted for a budget. paul ryan of wisconsin has done an extraordinary job of putting a budget together that will address the sequester and our debt, and it will provide for maintaining tax cuts which causes the private sector to grow. the president has no knowledge that. two years ago he said we should not increase taxes at a time of democrat -- of economic downturn because it will decrease jobs. the know when you take money from small businesses and investors and put it into government you reduced ability to create jobs, and the effect of that, sadly, on the stimulus

bill -- the president said on employment would not go above 8%, and has been about 8% for 41 months. it should be bipartisan. it was john f. kennedy, ronald reagan, and now hopefully mitt romney. what happens is if you reduce taxes, you provide revenue, to create jobs. our schools are at risk if we did not grow the economy. our police and firemen are at risk. it is not done by a temporary, one-time spreading around of the money. if we must grow the private sector. that is what we are working to do. host: one of the most well-known speeches by any president was dwight eisenhower on the best military complex. john has this point --

guest: i am republican because of the white eisenhower. i was a an early republican, one of the first -- because of dwight eisenhower. i was an early republican, one of the first in my neighborhood. i shared his concern. people need to know this. there has already been a reduction of $100 billion in the defense budget, then there was a further reduction of $487 billion. it is being monitored. it is being reduced. i am not aware of any other department as a deduction of any magnitude like this. what we are talking about, the sequestration, is a reduction in the budget across the board of

$500 billion to $600 billion. this is what secretary leo -- leon panetta has worn well hollow of our military. as an early eisenhower republican i respect his view. host: you will hear from bob stevens, ceo of lockheed martin, who says his company could see 123,000 layoffs if sequestration takes effect. guest: that is texas, virginia, ohio, north carolina -- all of these jobs are at risk. i hope people will cover the hearing, and the last person will watch the hearing. you will see there is not a relationship with the defense industry. there is an appreciation. i want the best equipment for our troops. with four sons serving in the military and when our troops to protect themselves and freedoms of the american people.

host: we will be covering the hearing of the house armed services committee you can check it out on line. this point -- what are the ramifications of going off the fiscal cliff, and one of the ramifications if we avoid the fiscal cliff for the next year? guest: that is why we have best for transparency. it was bipartisan. it was unanimous to provide for transparency into how a house sequester would be carried out. ben bernanke has been great to raise the issue. sadly, the response by the president is that he would veto efforts. we know senator patty murray said just let it happen, go over the cliff. this is not the way to look out

for the long-term future of the american people. host: friday. democrats line. michigan. caller: representative, you and most republicans agreed with grover norquist not to raise taxes. you ought to honor the same agreement you made with sequestration. you did not come up with a deal. you always want it your way. i suppose -- i support patty murray and the president. if you agree with grover norquist, you had better be held to what you agree to with the sequestration. guest: i did not vote for sequestration. i did not feel that was irresponsible way to conduct our government. it was announced this was not

going to happen. it would put the american people at risk. i did not vote for that. i think it is wrong. it was promised by the president that somehow the super committee would work. that is why he signed the bill. we do not need to follow the greek example. we have seen the consequence on television. what happens when you have economic crisis? people have lost their lives. we know with record unemployment in michigan, which the president is overseen, that many families are destroyed. there is in their homes. they are breaking up. we need to be working to create jobs. we should be working together. i appreciate your view on that. we need to be working together. we can work together. we should not allow the future of our country to give the appearance of greece, spain, where the economies that are

collapsing around the world who have over-extended. we are over-extending. it was pointed out a moment ago that we are borrowing from china. if china were to stop the lending -- 42 cents of every dollar spent by our government today with the president of the budgets are borrowed from around the world. he promised in february, 2009, when he said the current deficit at that time was not sustainable. i believe compared i thought this was great. in the meantime, he we believe 10. i thought this was great. in the meantime, -- believed him. if i thought this was great. in the meantime he doubled the deficit. policies need to change. the policies of the president had not worked. i have counties were 20% of the people are unemployed. this is wrong, we will address

it by electing mitt romney as president. host: texas. republican line. good morning, tom. caller: good morning, jill. i like your speech when it came to sequestration i think -- sequestration. i think everybody should be working to avoid this, because all of our people that data set a daily basis are hit. our hospital will be next. who knows what else. not to mention the military that protected from foreign invasion and in search -- insurgents. what else? you also have gun control all

the way down to eliminating guns in the hall. guest: i share your concern. i'm talking about the weakening of our national defense. the smallest army since 1939. the president has proposed eliminating 80,000 troops, 20,000 marines, 23,000 in the navy and the air force. that weakens national defense. then you bring up something, homeland security, domestic tranquillity. by having crop -- policies that resulted in record unemployment, that reduces revenue to our municipal governments, our state governments, and that means police officers and firemen, our teachers -- they are at risk. the way to assist domestic tranquillity is to grow the economy. that is what ronald reagan did. that is what john f. kennedy did. if you cut taxes. you grow the private sector. you create jobs, and there is

additional tax revenue so we can have domestic tranquility. host: these are the numbers, keeping track of the debt and the deficit -- $15.8 trillion, approaching $16 trillion. when you look at this number, can you reduce this? over what time? guest: id grieves me to tell you this, but the budget it grieves me to tell you this, but the budget -- it grieves me to tell you this. paul ryan has been responsible. the budget we passed has been responsible. sadly, it would take 40 years. that is the only plan that was passed by anyone in congress. i'm confident of this, that with good people we have the top, cap and balance government which would reduce expenditures and

grow the economy to balance the budget in five years. i believe it will take time. the young people of our country need to know the president has put in place $5 trillion of new debt. the interest payments alone will be catastrophic for the young people of our country. college students already know that more than half of college students under the age of 25, 52%, do not have jobs in the field they want. they are either unemployed or under-employed. host: frank has this point -- republicans cut taxes, and that is why we cannot pay our bills. guest: that is not true at all. contact my office to get the information. when you reduce taxes, as john f. kennedy did, as ronald reagan did, as george w. bush did, and in fact, the bush tax cuts resulted in a 13% increase in

revenue. the president knew that. he said that if you keep money in the private sector, it is not the government put the money, it is the people's money. if people keep the money, they could invest, hire more people. i believe tax cuts clearly create jobs, which then increases revenue and the bush tax cuts prove that point. i would be happy to get that information to you. do not hesitate to contact my office a i am telling the truth. host: barbara. south dakota. independent line. caller: good was just curious, e elected as a representative, senator, or congressman, i understand you are part of either the democratic or republican party, but once you are elected, is it not your duty to represent both parties, the

democratic and republican, because you are our elected official? is it not your responsibility to look at both sides and take the best pieces from both sides and decide what is went to work best for the people that live in this country? host: thank you, barbara. guest: i agree with you. in fact, it is so positive that it is not newsworthy, but i was part of a working group for an all-of-the above energy plan. we were working together on an all-of-the-above energy plan. i know we can and should be working together. soon, you'll see congressman bill pascrell from new jersey. he is coming on after me. i've worked with him on issues related to campus safety where there have been fire problems. we can work together.

i quote sheila jackson lee, who was the co-chair of the afghan caucus, we saw progress, and she said joe, it is said that good news has no feet and bad news has wings. if there are good things that we need to let the people of south dakota and no. host: chris in alabama says george w. bush had a one. $5 -- a $1.5 trillion surplus. guest: he also had a problem with a democratic congress beginning in 2007, the last two years of his administration. what had been positive with economic growth, job growth, the policies of the democratic majority with the new speaker, at that time nancy pelosi, if

you look there was a big difference in the first six years and the last two years of the bush administration. it is a democratic congress that simply cannot control itself on spending and increasing taxes. host: yet the house and senate were in republican hands when the war in iraq and afghanistan took place pick was a mistake by -- took place. was it a mistake by -- to not pay for it by raising taxes? guest: no. it is common sense. if small businesses and private sector have money, they can hire people. host: your expenditures on military operations and medicare part b -- but guest: of all things, that program came under budget, as --

and it was not anticipated. we know that if you cut taxes, revenue goes to local governments. teachers need to understand we need a new president to grow the economy. host: let me share this from "roll-call" -- house republicans are kicking off a 10-day blitz of extending all of the bush tax cuts. the vote takes place july 27. what will happen? guest: i believe the house will vote that way and we will have some democrats voting to support the extension of the tax cuts. we need the certainty. he needs to be done now. it should not come as senator patty murray said, allow the economy to collapse could we should be voting on that now so small businesses can count on it.

already, with obama-care, the largest tax increase in american history, that will destroy 1.6 million jobs. we need to have certainty now in regard to the tax cuts to host: congressman joe wilson, congressman of sceptre of -- tax cuts. host: congressman joe wilson, congressman from south carolina. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you. i appreciate writes -- "washington journal" for getting out both sides. host: congressman bill pascrell will be joining us, and then later we will look at the personal story of amanda bennett. "washington journal" continues on this wednesday morning, but first of look at the news with nancy talal. -- calo. >> there is more on the violence in syria. the state-run television network

says the defense minister and deputy defense minister have been killed in a suicide bombing. the deputy minister was president bashar al-assad's brother-in-law. it could signal a turning point in the 16-month conflict. united nations diplomats said earlier there is still a chance to get russia to support a new resolution to end syria's civil war. the resolution threatens nonmilitary sanctions, but could lead to military force. checking in on the presidential campaign this hour -- more on the release of mitt romney's tax returns from former minnesota governor tim pawlenty. speaking earlier, the governor defense mitt romney's refusal to release more than two years of his returns saint "there is no claim or credible indication that he has done wrong."

he went on to accuse president obama of "hanging shiny items before the public and the press and the press is taking the bait." there will be live coverage of the president's remarks in bowling green, ohio. >> there has been a hostility to poverty. lyndon johnson was the best president, and look at poverty issues, and spend money on it, talking about social service programs. it was followed by richard nixon, the father of minority business development. he established the small business administration, minority business administration and used the term economic justin. >> the former president of

bennett college for women regularly comments on education and african-american history. live, your questions, calls to my e-mail and tweets for the author of "surviving and thriving" on c-span2 "booktv." >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome congressman bill pascrell from new jersey. good morning. dire warnings from ben bernanke yesterday and today about the economy and the so-called fiscal cliff, essentially saying congress is to get its act together and resolve these differences. will you? guest: the pressure is there, but this is an election year, which adds another form of

pressure. mr. bernanke will be testifying in front of financial services today. i do not know if he will say anything different today than he did yesterday concerning the stimulus or the lack of it at this time. if you look back over the record of the past six months, steve, the congress has not done much in my opinion in terms of dealing with the jobs crisis. i think it is a crisis. it has not done too much about attempting to get a balance between what revenues we do need and what cuts we need to the budget to get us into balance. host: let me share with you what the associated press writes this morning. the fed chairman painted dark picture of where the economy is headed, but also he tells lawmakers that congress must go beyond year-end his issues and come up with a plan to shrink

the budget deficit otherwise there could be a crisis and the one bright spot has been low interest rates. yet, we look of the u.s. debt clock and the numbers continue to rise. guest: i heard the gentleman before me, and we get along very well even though we are on opposite sides of the room -- the question of working together. that is easier said than done. we know that the deficit is growing. this is a very peculiar time in the history of the united states. we have had several. we have had a tremendous, deep recession, bordering on a depression. certain things have to be done by the former administration before they left, and certain things need to be we need to be done by president obama after january, -- needed to be done by president obama after january, 2009, and it is difficult to

get the two into sync. i did not think you can balance the budget simply by cutting. we are saddled with a difficult situation looking at us in january of next year, what we call sequestration, across-the- board cuts in both defense and nondefense items in the budget. i think that would be horrific. both sides seemed to agree on that. yet, nobody wants to move it this time because the election is facing us. there is anxiety and anticipation over that. getting the congress to move between now and election day will be very difficult. host: let me get your reaction to the proposal put forward by senator patty murray, democrat of washington, as she talked about the idea of letting the bush tax cuts expire from earlier this week. [video clip] >> once again, if republicans will not work with us on a

balanced approach, we will not get a deal because i feel very strongly we simply cannot allow middle-class families and the most loanable americans to bear this burden alone. it is just not fair. if we cannot get a good deal, a balanced deal calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, then i will answer the continue this debate in 2013 rather than locking in a long- term deal this year the throes middle-class families under the bus. i think my party and the american people will support that. i hope it does not come to that. i think we have good reasons to think of deal can happen before the end of this year. democrats are willing to compromise. we just need a partner. i have seen encouraging signs from republicans who are sick and tired by being boxed in by the most extreme elements of their base and do not like to be responsible for the continuing

manufacturing crisis that hurt our economy and destroyed faith in the government, and are concerned about the impact of sequestration. host: is there bipartisanship after the election? will the move to be different? -- mood be different? guest: first of all, i am 100 percent in agreement with senator patty murray. we need to do something before the election that will send a clear message that we can work together. we can if we put partisanship aside. both parties in the house and the senate -- the extremists within the republican party have taken control of the party and box, as you heard senator patty murray say, boxed the ordinary republicans into a corner, and they're tired of it. either you cut, or you are

spending. that is a simplification of the issue. when we need to do is not only cut the budget, which we have over 10 years, and we know we need to do more, but there needs to be some revenue. there needs to be some investment. there needs to be some balance in the approach. the me tell you, extremists do not want balance. they want it all one way. in the final analysis, when there are cuts from the defense, they throw their arms up and say they do not care about defending the united states, which is preposterous. host: regardless of who was elected in the white house, let's assume the house and the senate is divided. will the mood be any different? will republicans and democrats across the aisle and deal with the fiscal cliff, texas, the

deficit, -- taxes, the deficit, social security, and the big issues we are facing? guest: i did not think so. i think we are at a time, and i'm in this sincerely, that we are at a log jam and there is not any water coming down the stream that can force the logs apart. host: what is the solution? guest: those that believe we can come to a solution like patty murray's need to keep on what they are doing. host: but you need republican votes. guest: i think there is some movement in the senate. not that senate republicans are becoming more progressive, but they understand that they're here to do the work of the american people for the good of the american people, the middle class. we have a shrinking middle class and we need to do something about it right now before we have richer people and for

people on the landscape. that is what is happening right now. host: a our guest is a member of the house ways and means committee from a primary -- off of a tough primary battle. when did you learn from that? learned that it is not social issues. it is interesting, two democrats fighting each other in a primary, and some of the most important issues become social issues. i find that interesting. people want to know, are we going to be able to put bread on the table, get your kid into school so he could live a better life? this is what is on people's minds. we need to get through the fog and the webbs and the other distractions that prevent us from having a balanced approach. we need tax cuts. there is no question about it. this president has not raised

taxes, and i do not agree with the president and everything, but he has not raised taxes. there have been so many myths about this presidency and a need to be clarified. maybe we will do that during the election. host: the to do all of you have been long-time friends. it was a bitter primary. have you tested your relationship? >guest: not quite. we will get there. there were disturbing things that happen in the primary. it was a negative campaign. we are trying to do the same thing. if i'm going to be compared to newt gingrich, to governor mitt romney, i mean, you know, i think that is going beyond. i have a record that is quite obvious, very supportive of the president when i have to become a when i want to be, and to try

to paint me as a republican did not work obviously, and we won handily. none of the pundits expected that. we should get away from focus groups and deal more with human beings and see what is on their minds, and run a campaign that is on the ground, rather than on networks. host: bill pascrell. democrat from new jersey. robert parish pennsylvania. independent -- robert. pennsylvania. independent line. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i watch you every morning. i was going to speak about the economy. both parties have a big hand in what has happened in america. when clinton was president, they passed the free-trade bill with china. republicans passed it, clinton signed it, and i cannot remember the fellow condone name, but he was a congressman from

michigan, and he fought against that so well, and unfortunate democrats did not put money in his election and he lost the next time. the democrats do not have any right to hold their heads up for what is happened to the working people in this country. the-shift jobs overseas. there are no benefits. no overtime. everybody works 30 hours or 10 hours a week. the people that had a little bit of money to put into the banks, they do not get anything on now they have those reversible mortgages for people that i've lost their money and -- that have lost their money, and now they will lose their house because they have to put their house up for money to live on. i think every politician ought to hang their head in shame.

the big people are going to do well. it is the port and the working people that are suffering right now. guest: i associate myself with everything that young lady said. host: gene. republican line. guest: -- caller: apparently i am an extremist under your category. i am a mother of five, and i am telling you that it is shameful. the behavior, the vocabulary, the party line -- i will not do this unless you do this, for my children, my did this, sir, it is time to -- my goodness, sir, if it is time to step forward. this vocabulary that keeps being used about been extremist effect

me. guest: well, if you want to talk about extremist language, talk about what mr. paul ryan from wisconsin has said. he called the president got list. those things are unacceptable -- got the. of those things are not acceptable. we can have a debate. we need to come together and agree on some things. you can not come together and agree on some things if you think you have all of the answers. many of the congress that came in in 2010 think they have all of the answers. they came in on a wave. i am willing to sit down with anyone. most of my legislation is bipartisan. i think that is the way we started off. to get a bill passed you need to make compromises. you cannot compromise with someone that believe they have a hold on the truth.

host: on both sides, when you have a senior campaign adviser to the president calling mitt romney a potential fallen, the back-and-forth and the name- calling -- guest: i would say that is not acceptable. if we go 1-on-one, i do not think there is any comparison to how this president has been demonized and denigrated. the office has been denigrated. let's debate the issues, even if their social issues. we can be civil with one another. if we are not simple, we will turn voters off. host: one of our viewers says spending and borrowing causes inflation. inflation is a hidden tax on all americans. that is the effective huge deficits and the -- borrowing. guest: it is, when you become president of the united states

in january, 2009, and you are going off of the cliff, you have to do things, and that is why the recovery act kept us from going over the press of this. i think it is easy to talk about cutting spending. we need to cut spending, and we have. what we need to do is have the balance. that is why you cannot give tax cuts to a-rod. you can not give tax cuts and think you can balance this budget down the road. we're talking about trillions of dollars for 2% of the population that do not need the tax cuts. i'm concerned about the middle class, the working poor that we come here to washington to help, not the people at the top. god bless them. we want them to make money. where were they investing money in 2007, 2008?

they were not. why? the government has some responsibility in keeping the government going. many of these people want to shut down this government. some people elected in 2010 wanted the government to shut down. you might say in the foothills of tennessee maybe that is what they all should do. where will we be? host: your colleague joe wilson said you can cut your way out of the deficit over the next 40 years. guest: i do not agree with that. we need to have revenue, investments in transportation, energy, etc. i want a balanced approach. we agree that we need to cut, but you cannot just do that. sequestration would cost $650 billion in cuts in defense and $650 billion in cuts in non- defense items across the board.

i do not think this is the way to operate a government. host: arnold says bill pascrell did not get them election mandate from 2010 for cutting spending. the lesson from that midterm election. guest: i think we have. we have voted to cut the budget over the next 10 years 1.2 trillion. the time, we were close to the depression, and you either agree the government has some response ability -- i would ask anybody do you believe the government had any responsibility in this great deep recession that we had? what is the responsibility? how could they have implemented what they thought was necessary? the thing the government should have stayed out of it, let us go

off the cliff, and then try to recover? guest: -- host: beverly. north carolina. democrats line. caller: i am from new jersey. i moved to north carolina. i want to talk about the economy. those republicans in washington, if they would just passed a jobs bill, we would have a good he economy, but they know the jobs bill will make jobs for people and hence the president will look good. there are reasons why this is happening. they are in the pockets of the big boys and they have to do what they are told. so, where is america going? i do not know. guest: i did not think you could have blinders on. i would agree with you that some people are in the pockets of big, big business, but i do not think that is the general tenor.

democrats are no more patriotic than republicans and vice versa. i think republicans have believe they can get back the white house by simply moving down an extreme path and what i mean by extreme is they know the truth already and they will not be pushed off of the trail or moved in a different direction. what i personally believe in is that those of us, most of us who are in the center, whether we are the left or right, really want to enhance the common good. we are here to help the majority of the american people. we are here to help the middle class grow. that is what america is all about. america is not about putting people into different classes. that is what has disturbed me about the discussion over the past two weeks -- the rich and the poor, who should get tax cuts and who should not. we begin to classify people.

we want the government to be fair to those who have a lot of money, but we want people who are in the middle class and the working poor to feel that their government cares enough about them to know when to step in and when to step out. government cannot deliver it in. will not solve all of our problems and many times it makes things worse, the oil in a situation in january, 2009, of going deeper into debt and losing more people in the middle class. we've gone deeper into debt because we ahead to try to resolve some of these problems. we had a massive tax cut in february, 2009. one-third of the stimulus package was a tax cut. when third was investments in america. one-third was trying to get cops, firefighters and police officers back.

look at the drag on the local budgets we have seen over the last three or four years. this is interesting. we would have had a better jobs picture than we had two weeks ago, which started a lot of discussions, except for the public sector which continues to lose jobs. you say, so what? these people go on unemployment. these people reaching their tasks are not taken up by anyone -- their tasks are not taken up by anyone. drug tests forces are greatly reduced. there is not the response time there was before. we say that because 11,000 police officers have been laid off, that does not mean anything? thousands of teachers have been laid off ticket that does not mean anything? firefighters have the same situate -- laid off. that does not mean anything? firefighters have the same situation. we need to cut, but we need to

have revenue to keep the government moving. paul ryan's budget, and i do not agree with him on most things, but do you know that his budget would not only add to the deficit but lead to more people being laid off? what we accomplished if we lay more people off and we're trying to balance this budget? guest: we're talking taxes, and the economy with a member of the house and ways committee. you just to begin or are listening, our guest is representative bill pascrell, democrat of new jersey. our next caller is from new jersey. gale. independent line. this morning. -- good morning. caller: i would like to know, with the health care law, since my husband is on social security. guest: how old is he? caller: 67.

under the health care law, since i am 10 years younger with no job, his total income goes for rent in new jersey which means i'm supposed to come up with x amount of dollars as a penalty or a tax, i should call it. what should we do about the electric bill, the guess that doubled? nobody is talking about the gas right now. guest: what are you doing right now? caller: he is still working. guest: is covered with an insurance plan? he is been covered by medicare? caller: exactly. guest: you are not eligible at this point. caller: i will not be for 10

years. guest: when he stops working, within two years, an exchange will be set up, even though the governor is reluctant to say he will set up an exchange, you'll be able to see which insurance you wish, if you are covered. you are not covered by your husband's insurance? caller: now. guest: did he have health insurance in the test? -- in the past? caller: yes, he did. basically, his work is nonexistent. he is barely making a couple of days a week. guest: it is important we understand one thing. the health care act was to extend the possibility, the

potential of coverage to over 30 million people who did not have insurance. you do not have insurance. now, when you go to the hospital, god forbid, you have to go to a doctor. if your husband does not cover you, and you are not covered, you have to pay out of your pocket, correct? host: she is off of the phone. guest: i am sorry. what we are trying to do is get people to pay less out of their pocket, go into some form of coverage. you have an option in the exchanges as to what is fitting to you, a new be able to get some help. this young lady is not working. she will be eligible for federal dollars to help her pay for health insurance. by the way, when many people who are not covered go to the hospital, you pay for it, steve,

and i pay for it. we do not realize that in the process. i think this becomes more transparent. host: that may get your reaction to comments yesterday in part to what patty murray had to say tuesday. [video clip] >> in their fanatical crusade to inflict more pain on american businesses, democrats are openly admitting that they plan to wait until this debate reaches full throttle and americans are panicked about the outcome to do anything. because they think it will make it more likely for them to get their way. so be it. they are ready to accept the economic and fiscal consequences. they see a crisis coming.

they do not want to waste it. the congressional budget office has said not doing anything and walking off of this fiscal cliff would lead to a recession. the imf, its chief, says it would threaten the global economy cannot get senate democrats today -- economy, yet senate democrats today announced their writing -- they are ready and willing to accept all of that if republicans do not allow them to raise taxes on the very businesses we are counting on to create the jobs that we need host: congressman bill pascrell, your reaction to congressman mitch mcconnell -- senator mitch mcconnell? guest: i happen to like mitch mcconnell, but he is off the wall if he thinks we're going to

believe what he is saying right now. the fact of the matter is when president obama raised his hand, his anthem for the first year, senator mitch mcconnell, was we do not want this guy to succeed at anything, we're going to taken down in four years. that is a heck of a if he wants us to believe the democrats are trying to have a reconciliation on the budget, that is laughable. host: mike is on -- on the line. caller: who had control of the house and senate in the first two years? guest: in the first two years, until the unfortunate passing of senator kennedy of massachusetts, the democrats. caller: you all did not pass a

budget. now it is the fault of the right-wing. guest: you still need 60 votes to get anything to the senate floor. when senator kennedy passed away, you did not have those 60 votes. caller: >> but you had control for awhile. guest: it's a fair question and i gave a straight answer. caller: almost $1 trillion y'all past for the economy. guest: >> the recovery act of 2009? that was about $850 billion, yes. more than one-third of that was tax cuts to you and me. caller: and then shovel ready jobs. somebody asked obama about that a year or two later and he said many of them were not really show already jobs.

guest: you are talking about energy jobs, in that industry. there's no question in my mind that the federal government had to step in, in february of 2009. we would have gone off a cliff if they had not. there was no investment moving into the economy. you would have had massive layoffs beyond the disaster that we had, when the unemployment went up to nearly 10%. i am saying the federal government did what it was supposed to do, as president did before he left office in september of 2008, when he put before the american people the tarp proposition. that had to be done at that time, also. there is a place for the federal government, whether you are democrat or republican. you cannot say the heck with it, let's just cut, cut, cut.

we would have been in a depression. host: this person says -- guest: senator mcdonnell used that phrase. i think the senator's point is well taken. i think the deficit is a noose that continues to tighten around our necks and you cannot ignore the deficit. but you cannot ignore growth. the big battle they're having in -- in europse, should we continue to have a tightening of reins on what we should spend in our economy? host: milton is on the phone on

the democratic line in kentucky, good morning. guest: good morning, milton. caller: good morning. i really love c-span. by understand that we are heading for the situation where we are going to cut 10%. guest: if we go to sequestration in january of next year there will be automatic cuts across the board for 10 years. as secretary leon panetta said in terms of the defense budget, it would be devastating and draconian and we should try to avoid that. even if we put it off until maybe mid year next year, we still have more time to work this out, i think it's possible we could at that time, particularly with elections being behind us. caller: also, we have a

situation to where the tax cuts are not going to be renewed. guest: that is correct. they could expire. there were going to expire in 2010, but we decided to extend it for two more years because the recovery was not in full bloom. i questioned that decision at the time, although i voted for it, because i think the more we kicked the can down the road it is going to be very, very difficult to have any taxes expire. the point is we will just keep the tax cuts in there. what they will do is mean less revenue. if you think that is going to force us not to spend any money, because in congress they are talking about cutting the budget and they want projects done in their districts because their constituents want them done. this is a vicious circle. that's why we need to come to the center and come to some

resolution. host: a couple headlines i want to get your reaction to. this is from the pittsburgh post-gazette. and from the atlanta journal constitution. guest: my questions, there has not been much discussed about this, we have touched the perimeters on the subject of state and local financing. if you remember, the president in one of the recovery speeches he made in 2009 suggested that we need to be doing something about local finances and state finances. time here would come a when the state went through

tightening its belt and it has really transferred much of the responsibility on to the sounds. that is serious business, not only in terms of layoffs but in terms of services, because once infrastructure of local government begins to crumble, begins to constrict, then you're going to have major problems within the constituency. host: here's how the story is playing out in the washington post and on the front page of the new york times -- guest: i would absolutely agree with this. we have been talking about local

problems and state problems. we are all interconnected. it took us a long time to figure out how connected we are with the european economy, with the world economy. now that we have figured it out, we have to do something about it. there's no question that the recovery act of 2009 could have done more to help the states deal with their fiscal problems than anything -- if we could have gotten the votes. if states don't fund their pensions, you are taking the can down the road. what happens? the burden falls on the workers. the remaining workers and those who have retired. i think the states of been irresponsible, many of them, in this regard, as well. when you don't face those problems -- the same thing can be said of the federal government. host: testimony by ben

bernanke posted on our website, his semiannual report to congress. it was the senate yesterday. the house financial services committee today. you can watch a live on c- span.org and live it 10:00 eastern on c-span 3. catherine rights this -- writes -- colorado -- guest: that's a very good question. the question of scarcity is one of the phenomenons of our time. not scarcity for those at the top but for those in the middle. the middle-class has had the burden of propping up this economy for the past 30 years. in not raising taxes, we thought we solve all our problems. we need investment. we need people to save money

once again. and we need people to want their own credit accounts. host: this from north dakota -- guest: it has been proven over and over, steve, that the money at the top is not investing and creating jobs. we got to that in eight years of the bush administration. the middle class tax cuts were very helpful. but when you are talking about trillions of dollars being spent at the top, those very few people, then what is the result of it if we don't reinvest money back into the economy and create jobs? host: margaret is on the phone from new orleans on our independent line with the congressman. caller: good morning. i would like to tell the american -- i would like you to

tell the american people what your salary is as a brand new representative from your state. guest: [unintelligible] and we have not had a raise in three years. host: you have been in the house 15 years. guest: 16 years. caller: would you please explain to the american people your medical benefits from being a representative from new jersey? excuse me. you all go to bethesda. guest: why are you asking questions and then not letting me answer. caller: you can answer two at one time. my first question is to describe to the american people the benefit package you get for your medical care and how you can also go to bethesda naval

hospital and get the best medical care in the united states of america. guest: i think everybody should have the best care as anyone else. that's why the health care act is very important, so we level the playing field. that's why we passed health care. i don't believe congress should get any more help benefits than any other human being in this country. everybody does have a right to get some kind of health care before they get sick and able to get that coverage before they get sick. i think that's very important. let's talk about our health care. i use the state of new jersey blue cross and blue shield. they have much better coverage than the government plan down there, whatever body bags about -- . -- . we have to pay when we go to the position, on the capital here, which we have access to come and we have to pay a certain amount

of money per year. and we have to pay for our prescriptions, like everybody else. please don't listen to the internet or fox news about what my benefits are. you have a right to know what my benefits are, but don't think it is extraordinary, because it is not. host: bill is on the phone from wayne county, michigan, on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. let's talk about the uaw health care. i am retired gm worker. they kicked my 25-year-old and my 21-year-old off. if you think you are going to get answers from the government organization, you are crazy. when it goes into the hands of the federal government, we are there already essentially. bill, you don't understand.

we are in a depression. i am 54. i held three jobs for years and never had a problem finding a job. they only pay minimum wage, $10. these people in detroit are in a pr -- in a depression like you've never seen in your whole life. you've been in congress a long time and you are part of the problem. guest: i don't believe i am part of the problem. i am trying to solve the problem. parts of this country are reeling in a depression situation. why did this happen? you cannot blame the federal government. we need to take a look of those governments themselves and what they have done to help their own situation. jobs have moved. manufacturing is very important to detroit. how can you talk about detroit when you know how many jobs we have exported and sent overseas for our corporate economist?

how many jobs have we lost over the past 10 years, past five years? our industrial base is gone from patterson, new jersey. we are trying to revive it, but most of those jobs have gone overseas. that's a major part of our economy. we go back to the old conflict between alexander hamilton and thomas jefferson. derickson was wrong when he said that we could have a one- dimensional economy with agriculture -- jefferson was wrong. hamilton was right. many of us have started to follow hamilton in the last 10 or 15 years, realizing we needed a diverse economy, that we new manufacturing, service, agriculture. but we cannot simply allow one segment of the economy to go down the tubes and not think it's going to affect people's jobs or their lives. host: congressman bill pascrell, we will leave it there.

democrat of new jersey, thanks for being with us. guest: it's an honor. host: coming up in a moment, some of the latest news from c- span radio. next, amanda bennett. every wednesday we spotlight on magazines. she's a contributor to newsweek magazine and helped write for bloomberg news. we will talk about end of life care and her own personal story, coming up in a moment. nancy calo has those and other stories making news on this wednesday morning on c-span radio. >> good morning. in syria, russia is accusing the west of inciting the syrian opposition after a suicide bomber killed the defense minister and president bashar al-assad's brother-in-law today. foreign minister sergei lavrov says, "instead of calming down the opposition, some of our partners are inciting it to go on. a british resolution that would impose sanctions and allows for

possible military intervention would amount to direct support of the revolutionary movement." the un security council meets at 2:00 eastern time today to vote on a resolution. c-span is covering that meeting. turning to the economy, numbers on housing starts show a rise of nearly 7% in june to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 760,000. that is the highest since october of 2008. construction of apartments also rose after falling in may. despite the gains, the level of housing starts and permits are roughly half of what economists consider helping. stock futures are falling. in remarks yesterday, chairman ben bernanke warned that the u.s. economy will get worse if congress does not agree soon on how to prevent a budget crisis. hear his testimony at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span radio or watch the hearing on c-span 3.

those are the latest headlines on c-span radio. >[video clip] >> if i'm president, job one for me will be creating jobs. let me say that again. my agenda is not to put in place a series of policy that get me a lot of applause. my policy will be to create jobs for the american people. i don't have a hidden agenda. if you want a president who will make things better in the african-american community, you're looking at him. take a look. >> republican candidate mitt romney and vice-president joe biden spoke at the naacp national convention in houston. [video clip] >> close your eyes and imagine what the romney justice department will look like. imagine when his senior adviser

is robert bork. imagine the recommendations for who likely will be attorney general and the head of the civil rights division or those other incredibly important positions of justice. host: want the entire speeches online at the c-span video library. >> "washington journal" continues. host: every wednesday we focus on magazines. today we welcome amanda bennett, a contributor to newsweek magazine and an executive at bloomberg news and the author of "the cost of hope." thanks for being with us. guest: thanks for having me. host: your own personal story, your husband and his illness. guest: when i heard about the debate about the end of life care, it was two years after my husband died, i realized i could go back and look at the whole decision i made and that the

doctors made and then get the medical and insurance records and find out how much each step of the way cost and look at our decisions and doctors' decisions and put them together if and figure out what the cost was. host: your husband was terrance fully. he suffered from kidney cancer. guest: he was an extraordinary guy, spoke a bunch of languages, played lots of musical instruments. he was unexpectedly diagnosed in 2000 with a rare form of kidney cancer. host: the cover focuses on queen elizabeth, but inside is your piece on the end of life care. i want to put some figures on the table. one hospital stay in excess of $33,000. the next was almost $44,000. his final three days, almost $15,000. our real price tag for you personally of what your husband faced. guest: that was the other thing, i calculated not only the hospital stay price tag, but

each individual treatment. we tried to look at what things we did. we did everything from surgery, which turned out to be relatively innocent to the real experimental clinical trial drugs that turned out to be very expensive, and everything in between, fda-approved treatment did nothing. as it turned out, doing nothing cost $36,000. host: in your personal experiences, and anyone who has dealt with a loved one facing any type of terminal illness, the natural instinct is to do everything possible to keep them alive with the hope that they could survive. guest: that is the other piece of this story, it is hope. it's not just a statistical story. it's a love story. everybody's end of life story is a love story, because it's all about the cost of doing everything you can try to keep somebody alive. if i am very frank in this book that i was one of the drivers of how much we spent.

if you had left it up to me, i would have spent every penny in the universe. host: our phone lines are open and we are dividing them regionally. if you live in eastern or central time zones, there's a number to call. mountain time zones and pacific, there is another. we're discussing the cost of end of life care. our guest is amanda bennett. our wednesday spotlight on magazines. your husband was clearly very sick and yet you were not giving up. guest: i think he did want to live, but the point was i was the one refusing to see that he was dying and refusing to see it was something serious. i kept wanting to try the next thing and the next thing. that's one of the issues about end of life care, that it is a

love story, we want to save the person we love. the doctors also don't want to give up. the doctors want to cure people. host: one photograph when new or relatively new in your marriage and then a more recent photograph. guest: the first photograph is the new year's eve when our son, one of our two children was just born and we dress him up and took him out for night on the town. the other was taken on the front lawn of our home in lexington, kentucky, where we lived several years. host: did you talk about death with your husband? guest: we did not talk about his death. i knew, as i would suggest to everyone, i knew what his wishes were, i knew he did not want to be kept alive in a state where he could not think or be active. so i knew all that. but that's a different question than to say did we sit down and say now we think. you are think host: in researching the cost of

his medical care, especially its last few months, what did you learn about yourself? guest: i learned about myself that i was very much like i think the vast majority of people out there are. one of the reasons i did this book was to see did i do the right thing. as i researched the book i found that i think almost everybody thinks the way i think. they have a very hard time facing the idea of someone they love going to die and they do everything they possibly can. i think my story is not atypical. host: be on the monetary cost of services and duplication of services was also the confusion and the emotional price. guest: those are two different questions and they emerged together. the confusion is that despite the fact that i am extremely well-educated, i am a professional investigative reporter, i had a lot of time and i had the best insurance

policy, i found the system almost overwhelmingly confusing. it was all based on different kinds of specialists and there were associated with different hospitals and there was nobody coordinating the care. i was the general contractor. they're all the constricting things and it was very hard. you cannot find out how much things cost for find out who was responsible for what. what it was very complicated and weigh more confusing than it should be. the emotional cost is partly the fact that at a moment when you are really dealing with somebody you love who is sick, the burden of figuring all that out falls on you as well. host: is been five years since your husband passed away. do you remember the final conversation you had with him? guest: i remember it very well. unfortunately, the other cost is i pushed it so far that by the time it was really evidence that he was dying, we have not had a

chance to say goodbye. so he was anoin a coma. so we did not get a chance to say goodbye. host:ann is joining us from greensboro, north carolina with amanda bennett. good morning. caller: good morning. i've been watching the show all morning. some of my questions have been answered. i am in that predicament. i am almost 60 and i have been on medicaid, medicare for a while. i don't know how they calculate it, but i'm afraid my benefits may run out. the way the politicians are talking about, you are only going to get a certain amount and all of this. i have to have a lot of

medicine. host: somebody in her situation, your thoughts? guest: i did not hear the question. host: she is worried the benefits she needs may not be around during her end of life care. guest: that is one of the real keys to our situation is that people are worried about rationing and people are worried about the fact that some people cannot be covered by care. the fact is, there's already rationing going on. 85% of less than have a pretty good medical care and get along and the people that don't, don't. so that is part of the reason i wrote this story is to say there's a lot of inequity going on right now and we need to figure a way to reduce the cost of what i take out of the system so other people will have more. host: for anyone in a situation where you were facing with a spouse, when you make the decision for hospice? guest: again, my situation was

typical. terrance did die in hospice. we made the decision on the four days before he died. as i did the research for the newsweek piece, i discovered it's typical that the people that run hostas believe we make the decision a little too late and perhaps we could have made a decision several weeks earlier and made it easier for all of us. host: i will generalize because i don't have specific figures in front of me. in is often been said that a high percentage of health care cost goes to the final days or weeks of someone's illness. guest: that's correct. about one-quarter of health care that is consumed in the last year of life, and that turned out to be true in our case as well. host: celeste is joining us from missouri. welcome to the washington journal. caller: good morning. the question i have is i'm a

veteran and i think the veterans department has a good program that talks about your last days. we are not going to live forever. i sat in the class and they explained what i wanted done with my living will, with my family. i sat down and talked to them and said this is what i want done and i did not want it changed. i hear people talking about a depth panel. i know my days are coming. while i'm in my right mind right now, if i would rather sit down and explain to my wife and kids why i am doing it. it would relieve a lot of people. guest: that's real important that he talks about he knew what he wanted and wanted to talk about it with his family and has professional help to coach them through the conversation, because it's not the easiest conversation to have. host: when did you have a conversation with doctors that

your husband was near death? guest: five days before he died when he was in intensive care in an acute stage. that was the first time. it was a young intern, a resident in the hospital will have a direct conversation with me. i think perhaps over the years people had been hinting things to me, but not in a clear way. certainly, given my state of mind, not enough to get my attention. host: looking back, would you prefer to have a doctor said your husband has six months or a year or three months, to be very direct with you on what you could expect? or does that take away any hope you have? guest: that is one of the complicating factors in my story and everyone's story. the doctors were quite open about saying he has six months or nine months. those turned out to be wrong. when they said those things, they turned out to be incorrect. the first time the city had six months was about four years before he died. one of the other things is the

complicating factor of the fact that it's not a precise science. so i think it's more like a continual conversation that you have to have that says let's keep on revisiting this as we go on and let's see how we. feel we. host: the story of marriage, family, and a quest of life with a cost of hope is the boat. we're on the line with clear water. caller: i would love to get together with amanda. if i were to write a book i would have to call it "horror hospital." there's a lot of corruption in hospitals. if i had a nickel for every incorrect diagnoses from doctors, i would be welcome. we have to have the real free market open competition. i believe in homeopathy, natural medicine.

i have been interested in acupuncture and indian medicine and herbs for centuries. we need a competition to bring down the cost and increase the quality. our doctors don't have all the answers. some of them are fantastic. some of them were "f" students. some doctors, all they know how to do is write a prescription that will mask the symptoms. guest: i think she said a key word, which is transparency. i have to say that every single professional that we dealt with along the way was fabulous. these were not incompetent people or selfish or corrupt people. some of them were very extraordinary people. i have no fault with that and i have no fault with the idea that you want to do this cutting edge research to try to push the edge of what we can cure. but i do think the issue of

transparency is a very important one. there was no price transparency. it was very hard for me to find transparency, who is running the study, who is behind this drug, which hospital is associated with which particular kind of thing? it was hard for us to find all that out. plus the fact that it was all tiny pieces of different specialists. each of them with their own small slice of what they were doing and there was nothing pulling it all together. host: when you talk to nurses and they see patients coming through in their 70's or 80's with other chronic illnesses and then may have some sort of major surgery if that's only going to maybe hasten their death, our doctors are responsible when they undertake major procedures for elderly people facing other problems? ofst: it's the other side part of the wonderful thing about medical care, which is the doctors are trained to fix things.

they see something broken, they want to fix it. when i researched the newsweek article, you look at the fact they're not trained to look at the entire thing. who if there's w is 80 years -- if there is a patient who is 80 years old and has a broken bone or need something fixed, if they send them to surgery, because that's what they do, they fix things. i think you need a broader conversation with someone who speaks to the patient and says this person is sick, is it really weren't going to surgery to do this right now? is the cost really worth what you're going to get out? of out the big problem is nobody is really speaking to the patient except for the loved ones of the patient. host: are we doing enough as a society to prepare ourselves for eventual death? do we talk about enough, to families talk about it enough? guest: from top to bottom, one of the questions was, to what extent do you help doctors see

having a patient die does not automatically mean they failed? no matter how good the doctor, everybody eventually dies. as the first caller or second caller said, to have an open conversation that says here is what i would like you to do, so you don't want asking did i mess up or let them go too soon, after your loved one dies? at least you have the knowledge of what everybody wanted. host: we would like your calls and comments. a number of the bottom of the screen. you can also send us an e-mail. this is on our twitter page -- guest: that is wonderful. the goal is to have everybody able to feel that way. host: we're on a line with mobile, alabama.

caller: hello. remember when they said there was no death panel? well, they do have one. because my wife had cancer and she was in pain. the nurse came and the doctor said to take her to the hospital to adjust her medicine. that means give it to her until she dies. they told me there was nothing i could do. host: what type of cancer and was she facing and how long was she ill and when did she pass away? caller: about 10 years ago. endometrial cancer.

it was -- host: how long did she battled cancer, virgil? caller: eight or nine years. guest: i think the word "death panel" is such a scary thing to say. i'm really sorry for your experience, virgil. at some point, there's nothing we can do and that's true, and a matter how much help the insurance -- health insurance you have or how much resources. at some point that is a true sentence. a time to start thinking about that. the complexity of my story is we were told he had six months to live and he really had a full you are years. on the other hand, if you say you have four years and only

live two days, that's also problem. host: the price tag of his illness was in excess of $600,000. you frame it in terms of vaccinations for children, was it money well spent? guest: i would have spent every penny, again, that i could have. from my individual point of view, it was money well spent. the context you are reading that in is he really cared about the world and cared about society and other people. he recognized that what might be absolutely best for him and me might not be best for everybody else. so the idea should everybody be able to spend $600,000? sure, if it is money well spent. but a lot of what we spend was probably spent just because we could and not missouri because it helped. host: mike is on the phone from

st. louis. caller: good morning. i can only support everything that mr. bennett says. my wife passed away in november from lymphoma. i agree that everything is terrifically expensive and i would have spent more to have kept her alive for just a moment longer. i think the thing that made the experience most distasteful was that in the last few days her terminal diagnosis was passed along by a doctor that we had no connection with, who we had just met in the emergency room, abnnd then her oncologist essentially abandoned us for the last few days that she was alive. he did not call.

he did not stop by to visit us. she had had time to set her affairs in order. she had gone through a rigorous transformation that transformed her lymphoma from a mild state into a very aggressive stage, so she knew that the end was coming. but the whole thing came down to the last week that essentially we were abandoned by our oncologist. she knew that it was coming, but the way that the final diagnosis came was very distasteful. i hope your experience was much better than ours. i can only support everything that you have to say about the final experience. we knew it was coming and everything.

how was your experience? guest: first, i am sorry for the loss of your wife and for the experience you are talking about, which has to be very devastating. it is an example of what i am talking about, that everybody is in their own specialty. i'm sure of the oncologist, you really trust in him or her and they help you, but it is all specialists. so you get to the hospital and all of a sudden there's a whole new group of people. something you said that resonated with me is somebody you had never met before. in the final days of life, there's a piece in a book where i list all their names of the medical record. there was almost 30 of them during nine of them were doctors. i'd never met any of them before. i read the names and i could not recognize any of them. you had an example of exactly that. the complexity of the fact that it's all individual little pieces. at a very important time in your life and your wife is dying, for

so many new steps. you are the only one left to pull the pieces together. host: an excerpt of the book is available online at newsweek .com. our guest is amanda bennett from bloomberg news and a contributor to newsweek magazine. the cost of president's end of life care. jim on twitter -- many times, when you are providing this type of care, it is not only expensive and often painful for the patient. guest: yes, and i think that is one of the truly complex things, to distinguish the difference between real hope and wish for linking. wishful thinking. i believed up until the very end, as a lot of people do.

as for the suffering peace, terrance's treatments were uncomfortable and sort of unpleasant, but he lived a very, very rich and full life right up to the end. he spoke seven languages -- six learning no. was 7 the week he died and was picking our kids up from school and was learning to play the violin. there were treatments that he gave up because they were debilitating. even he made a choice of saying this is too painful or debilitating and even if it offers an extension of life i am not conduit. when i met him he was an agricultural specialist in china. we met in china where i was a wall street journal reporter and he had been a lifelong expert on agriculture and international food trade. we came back to the u.s., new

york city, there's none in huge demand for agricultural specialists, so he remade himself as a journalist. host: this is from potter -- a 29-year-, there's old resident who looked me in the fine was said that we may face a resuscitation seen tonight or maybe in the next couple hours, what is it you want me to do? if you don't tell me not to do it, i'm going to have to do it. i will tell you i don't want to do it. i don't want to resuscitate this man, it's not the right thing to do. but if you tell me, i have to.

this is the first time everanyone has that clear a conversation with me, five days before my husband died. host: h guest: i have a guessing game that i play now. how many cat scan did terrance have over six or seven years? want to take a wild guess? host: zero? guest: 76. some people guess 50. this is part of the disconnected this.

nobody was paying for this, so i did not have to think about it. the insurance paid for it. nobody had to say do we really need to do this, this time, or do we need this many? we are talking about transparency. host: how much was covered by insurance of the $600,000 in medical bills? guest: my story is not the story of the uninsured struggling to get medical care. my story is a story of the best of the system currently. i had excellent medical insurance. they covered all of it. we wound up out of pocket paying only about $10,000. that is the best of the best. i'm looking at the kind of confusion and complications that happen even in what is going mostly right in the patent system. host: this wednesday we're focusing on newswee magazine,

an excerpt of the book is available online. we are on the line in california now. caller: good morning. you said people are not speaking for the patient. part of the problem is people are not listening to the patient. i have many chronic illnesses. i have kidney disease. at this point in my life, especially after what i saw my mother go through, i really want quality more than i want an extension of my life. i could go any time from now until maybe a couple years. let me just have somebody to help me at home once in awhile. what i was thinking of when i was speaking to you is i think in this country we need to talk

about this more often. maybe we can have the hospitals and insurance provide us with groups that we can get together and discuss this. death is something inevitable. it's time we look at it and say living forever is not an option. it really is not. so let's get comfortable with the fact that at some point it's going to be over. host: why is it so difficult for any of us to have that conversation about death? know, but i have tried to have it the last time i was gasping for breath at the hospital. i, literally, had very little air left and all i tried to do was tell them what i just told you.

the next day the doctor came into my room and accused me of whining. i was not whining, i was just try to tell them i did not want to have a long life, just give me quality. i don't want to go to a lot of pain in the end stages of my life. guest: as we move forward, will begin todhelike hers influence the system. i don't think it's because the people involved are evil. i think it's just that they are trained to do a really good thing, which is to fix people. if someone says i am flexible only at a cost i'm not willing to pay, there's nothing in the doctor those experienced and helps them to hear that. conversely, i did not have anything in my training that led

me to say when somebody was suggesting that he was dying, i said that i am not calling to let that happen. so you have some really good things on both sides. i want to take care of my husband and the doctor wants to take care of their patient, but neither of those prepare you for the next steps. conversations like hers will help us get that aspect back into the conversation. host: what would he think about the book? guest: terrance? the book was very funny because he was a very funny and really out there and committed person. i think he would be thrilled to think that his experience might help other people have conversations that would be useful to them. he would think it was a blast. host: martinsville, virginia, robert is on the phone with amanda bennett. caller: good morning. guest: good morning.

caller: i'm a doctor. i am retired. i was mesmerized by your conversation here. i still see patients every day even though i am 78 and i run a free clinic for the past 10 years. out years. guest: good for you. caller:i see cancer patients every two weeks. there are the doctors, and ecologists, the surgeons and this sort of argue over what is going to be the treatment. they usually come to a conclusion. in ever discuss money, by the way. they never discussed family to much extent. in the case of patients who are not dying of malignancy, the situation is a lot different these days when i first started out in glasses. a lot of people have chosen to take care of their elderly

family members that are dying of old age or natural causes and home. they are given pain medicine and arthritis medicine and other medicines to do this and they do a very good job. a lot of families have family members involved in medicine. the thing i find fascinating about what you just described -- and i am going to get your book -- is even though you mentioned how costly it was, you had tremendous sympathy for those people cannot afford it. unlike most of my doctor friends, i feel the current health care system is not really help care reform. host: robert, let me jump in.

jim says -- as a physician, my question to you is why have we not been talking about this sooner? caller: the reason is because our health care system is based on insurance. i think obama had it right in the first place when he said that we need single payer not- for-profit health care like they have in the veterans hospital, where the doctors are still doctors and are not employees of profit corporations. equal and it's not that's why it's not fair. host: thanks for the call from martinsville, virginia. guest: a very interesting point of view and an interesting experience. if you are 78 and still see patients every day, i would not call that retired. host: now a call from michigan.

good morning, david. caller: something you are leaving out is i have a story i have to tell about health care. my father came home from the war crippled in a wheelchair. and he was taken to a doctor, the head of bethesda naval hospital, neurology clinic. the doctor told him to make out his will, he had about six months. my father and i and my mom -- my father a recent convert to catholicism, he had been a jewish man, came to church with my mother and me and he was jabbing me on the side and saying, david, do you hear that voice? i said, no, dad. he says, david, don't you hear that voice?

i said no. when church ended, my father got out of his wheelchair and walked out of church. i think that we are long forgetting the fact that there are probably still in life more miracles by religion than wondrous cures by these doctors charging a trillion dollars to people in this world. guest: that's a lovely story. i hope that your dad lives belong in tapping life. it sounds wonderful. i'm really glad that happened. for happened host: this comment -- guest: i looked a little at that, but that was sort of a little beyond my ability to kind of get deeply into, because there was so much that i found that you did not even have to

think about that. there was so much waste going on that i don't think it was necessarily driven by a desire. desire. as the previous caller mentioned, many of the conversations were taking place without [unintelligible] host: norma is our next call from arlington, texas. caller: you are speaking from your original views as you went into this situation and talking as though this is equal for all. some have paid into the pool 40 years and some have never worked and paid into it. i can see from the frown on your face that you are not open to what i am saying. people were originally sold this as insurance. when you work in a physician's office, in insurance office, if you treat this as patient insurance.

to say that we equally share this and it should be equally shared for all, it no. some people learn more and some do not earn any part of that. host: you have a question? caller: why do you feel this should be equally shared? also, it is a game book. doctors never know what medicine may or may not work until they tried it. there might be a medicine that has a 10% chance of working that works extremely well on some patients. guest: norma, that's absolutely right. it was a point i did want to make, which is many of experimental drugs that turns used, including one in particular that we used in a clinical trial, has been approved and a whole class of those drugs are now helping people that have his condition to live much longer lives.

so i would not point the finger at the high cost of experimental treatments, because those can quickly become real treatments, as they did in this case. i'm looking at more the complexity and the overuse of things within the existing system. sorry if i was frowning. i thought i was smiling, actually. host: your message is -- guest: my message is that we need to have a better conversation, look more closely at this, and demand more transparency from our medical care, particularly at the end of life. host: amanda bennett. exurbs available at newsweek. thanks for being with us. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] a developing story will continue today and into the next few days. comments of defense secretary

leon panetta, said that the situation in syria is rapidly spinning out of control. the defense secretary telling pentagon reporters that it's now more essential than ever that the u.s. and the international community work through the united nations to bring pressure on the syrian president to step down and begin a peaceful transition. the defense secretary appearing with his counterparts from great britain, also expressing concerns on syria's large chemical weapons stocks need to be safeguarded. a bomb didn't throw a high-level security meeting today in the syrian capital curing the defense minister if as well as the brother-in-law of the syrian president. this is being seen as the harshest blow to the government posing inner circle in the uprising that has resulted in the deaths of more than 15,000. the headline is syrian violence spinning out of control and defense secretary leon panetta calling for a peaceful transition. we will have more on all this later in the day. the newsfe