a widespread belief. no doubt about that. i will say unequivocally that the political science data simply does not really verify that. nobody denies money is important in politics but there is no evidence it dramatically changes or even a genius at all once people -- how people vote. rather money goes to people whom they already agree with it. voters have to make that decision. voters will hear people talk. they have to make that decision. it is important the voters hear from everyone who wants to speak and hear every point of view. that is how we make informed decisions. it is the votes that count. it is not the money that is stuffed into ballot boxes. it is your vote that will decide. >> next, president obama and mitt romney comment on the shootings at the colorado movie theater. then a discussion on the violence in syria with a reporter who traveled with

opposition forces. president obama has ordered that flags be lowered to half staff in memory of those wounded in the shootings. mitt romney and president obama cancelled their campaign rallies and instead spoke about the tragedy. then we will hear from mitt romney in new hampshire. [applause] >> thank you, everyone. thank you.

thank you. let me first of all say how grateful i am for all of you being here. we appreciate everything that you have done. there are a lot of people here who have been so engaged in the campaign and have sacrificed so much. people have been involved since 2007. [applause] i want all of you to know how appreciated i am. i know many of you can hear today for a campaign event. i was looking forward to having a fun conversation with you about really important matters

that we face as a country. and the differences between myself and my opponent in this election. but this morning, we will cut to news of a tragedy that reminds us of all the ways that we are united as one american family. by now, many of you know or have heard that a few miles outside of denver in a town called aurora, at least 12 people were killed when a gunman opened fired in a movie theater. dozens more are being treated for injuries at a local hospital. some of the victims are being treated at eight children's hospital. we are still gathering all of the facts about what happened in iraq. what we know is that police have

one suspect in custody and the federal government stands ready to do what ever is necessary to bring war is irresponsible for this crime to justice. ring who ever is responsible for this crime to justice. i had the chance to speak with the mayor of colorado to express on behalf of myself, michelle, and the entire american family of who heartbroken we are. even as we learned how this happened and who is responsible, we may never understand what les anyone to terrorize their fellow human beings like this. such violence, such evil is

senseless. it is beyond reason. while we may never fully know what causes someone to take the life of another, we do know what makes life worth living. the people in iraq, were and are a lot. there were mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, friends, and neighbors. they have hopes for the future. they had dreams that were not yet fulfilled. if there is anything to take away from this tragedy, it is a reminder that life is very fragile. our time is limited. it is precious. what matters at the end of the day is not the small things. it is not a trivial things that often consume us and our daily

lives. ultimately, it is how we choose to treat one another and how we love one another. [cheers and applause] it is what we do on a daily basis to give our lives meaning and to give it purpose. that is what matters. at the end of the day what we will remember will be those that we loved and what we did for others. that is why we are here. i am sure that many of you who are parents had the same reaction i had when i heard this news. my daughters go to the movies. what if malia and sasha had been inside that theater as many of

our kids do every day? michelle and i are fortunate to hug our girls a little tighter tonight. i am sure you will do the same with your children. for those parents who may not be so lucky, we have to embrace them and let them know we will be there for them as a nation. again, i am grateful that all of you are here. i am moved by your support, but there will be other days for politics. this i think is a day for prayer and reflection. jawb[applause] what i asked everyone to do is i would like us to pause in a

moment of silence for the victims of this terrible tragedy and for the people who knew them and love them and those still struggling to recover and for all of those victims less publicized of the acts of violence that plagued our communities every single day. everyone, please take a moment. thank you, everyone. i hope all of you will keep the people of aurora in your hearts and minds today. may the lord bring them comfort and healing in our days to come.

i am grateful to all of you. i hope that as a consequence of today's events, as you leave here, spend a little time thinking of the incredible blessings that god has given us. thank you, everyone. god bless you. god bless the united states of america. [cheers and applause] >> four more years! four more years! [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] [applause] >> i want to thank father christian. we come before you today with very heavy hearts with what happened in colorado. joe and i want to offer thoughts and prayers from the people of new hampshire to the victims in aurora, colorado. to those that were injured, we wish them a speedy recovery. that is why we are here today. we want to come together as a community and to offer our

collective condolences and prayers. governor romney is here with us today to offer his thoughts and prayers and those of ann. it is my honor to introduce my friend, mitt romney, to you today. [applause] >> good morning. thank you for joining with the senator and me on this very sad day. thank you to father cushion for beginning this gathering with a word of prayer -- father christian for beginning this

gathering with a word of prayer. i join the president and the first lady and all americans in offering our deepest condolences for those whose lives were shattered in a few moments of evil in colorado. i stand before you today not as a man running for office, but as a father and grandfather, a husband and an american. this is a time for each of us to look into our hearts and remember how much we love one another and how much we love and care for our great country. there is so much love and goodness in the heart of america. in the coming days, we will learn more about the lives that have been lost and the families who have been harmed by this hateful act. we will come to know more about the talents and the gifts that each victim possessed and will come to understand the hope and opportunity that has been lost.

our hearts break for the victims and their families. we pray that the wounded will recover and that those who are grieving will know the nearness of god. today we feel not only a sense of grief, but also helplessness. but there is something that we can do. we can offer comfort to someone near us who is suffering. we can mourn with those in the colorado. colorado lost youthful voices that would light up their homes and brought joy to their families. the apostle paul explained, blessed be god who aided us in our tribulations.

we know how evil is overcome. we have seen the greater power in the goodness and compassion of a wooded community. grieving and worried families in aurora are surrounded by love today, and not just those two are holding them in their arms. they know they are being lifted up in prayer by people in every part of our great nation. now in the hard days to come, make everyone of them feel the sympathy of the whole nation and the comfort of a loving god. there will be justice for those responsible, but that is another matter for another day. today is a moment to grieve and to remember to reach out and to help. we need to appreciate our blessings in life. each of us will hold our children a little bit colder and labor lawyer with a colleague or a neighbor. we will reach out to a family

member or friend. we will spend less time thinking about the worries of the day and spend more time thinking about those who are in need of compassion the most. the answer is we can come together. we will show others we know and love. god bless you for being together in this moment of sorrow. god bless the united states of america. thank you. [applause] >> next, a discussion on the violence in syria with a reporter who traveled with opposition forces. then, the chicago mayor and

transportation secretary ray lahood talk about funding for infrastructure projects. after that, and look at the latest census bureau figures for american businesses and households. tomorrow on "washington journal" i financial times reporter marks the second anniversary of the dodd-frank wall street reform. it is also the first anniversary of the consumer protection bureau. the founder and executive editor a report talks about how it is affecting food prices. georgetown university associate professor james angel explains the british-based barclays bank scandal and its relation to the financial market. "washington journal" is live tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> it was about those men and women who are almost mortally

injured. because of the advances that have been made in the treatment of the last 10 years, an incredible number of them are being saved. almost all of them are being staged. i wanted to write about what life was like for these people. i started out with the question, having seen some people who are pretty gruesomely maine's, would it be better off if they were dead? do they wish that they were dead? >> in his pulitzer-winning series for "the huffington post", david wood spoke with surgeons, therapists, and nurses on the daily struggles for the severely wounded in military operations. learn more on sunday at 8:00 p.m. on c-span "q&a."

>> journalist, david enders , spend time on the ground. he says they are gaining ground again syrian president assad and's forces. there will be it remarks from john hanna. this is an hour and 25 minutes. >> let's get started. there are a few people outside. i am the president of this foundation. i want to welcome everyone. thank you for being here. i am glad that we plan this foundation for the defense of democracy. most people are probably familiar with us. in the aftermath of the 911

attacks, we focused on national- security and foreign-policy issues. we worry about terrorism and those machines and ideologies that are seeking the downfall and destruction of the u.s., israel, and other free nations. with that, i will pass the microphone to john. he will moderate. hopefully he will also offer up his own opinion and introduce our guest. thank you. >> ok. thank you. you're not for scheduling the timeliness of these things never ceases to amaze me. this is an extremely time the session. welcome to everyone to this foundation for defense of democracy. it will be a fascinating discussion on the rapidly moving situation and side of syria. over the past week or so, we

witnessed a series of extraordinary developments. the fall on pitched battles in the streets of damascus, the decapitation strike against the regime's andersen 10 that killed at least three of its most important security figures, including the president of's brother in law and other chief confidants and enforcers. what appears is today several syrian border posts with turkey and iraq. all of a sudden after 60 months of the horrifically slog, one of the -- they unleashed their firepower, day after day. the end game may at long last be upon us. i think a lot of people have been caught out with how quickly this inflection point has been reached and how rapidly things appear to be coming apart for

the regime. for those who follow the situation more closely, i think there is a bit less surprise at work. i remember myself talking to some of my colleagues in the first week of june. we sat through random snippets of evidence and raising the possibility that an arrest through of all the deathly tolls, something may shift in the nature of the fight. the weaknesses of the regime and the amount of territory to the opposition's control and that the inevitability that the fall of assad was coming. if we are looking, it will be sooner than what most of us thought possible. it has been confirmed in some of the riding of washington's best analyst. there has been details in the twist and turn of the daily struggle.

people like joe holiday at the institute's a steady and war -- today, we are fortunate to have with us so much else who has closely followed and chronicled the evolution of this war. he has witnessed firsthand and comes to us more or less directly from the front lines. it is a real opportunity in washington to hear the insights and observations of someone who has spent a month on the ground with syria's rebels. he has an immediate and intimate feel for the dynamics of the struggle and where it may be headed in the coming weeks and months. perhaps more important, he has directed spirit of the rebels themselves. baby can answer the question that has bedeviled analysts and economists alike -- maybe he can answer the question that has bedeviled analysts and economists alike.

who are these people? what do they believe? what kind of syria and do they want to see it? what will likely happen if they get control of the state? what will it mean for u.s. interests? even if i am right, he might seen the opening lines of "migrate." the fact is that no one -- "my way." the fact is, no one can predict what will happen. a lot of the story remains to be written. it can have an impact on the future of syria. assad may be going, but he is not gone yet. he maintains an enormous capacity to wreak havoc and

instability on a scale that would make even the carnage of the past 16 months look like small potatoes. fears that he may deploy his arsenal of chemical weapons and perhaps even biological agents against the population has all become too possible. even short of that, is artillery and bombing campaign in major urban areas by pro-regime militias that leads to massacres not only in the hundreds, but the thousands. these are real possibilities, as are the dangers of a major escalation beyond syria mortars -- borders. of course, we may get lucky. we could dodge a bullet. we could wake up tomorrow or the next day for the next week. maybe he will take them into exile.

maybe the collapse of his regime will not end with a bank, but with a whimper. he would be hard-pressed to find many syrian analysts prepared to give you odds on that an eventuality. it is hard, if not impossible, after watching the trajectory of this conflict to believe that it ends well for anyone. the only question is, how much and with what consequences for the syrian region? i will be interested to hear from our panelists in what the future might hold for us. i lost a page from my presentation. excuse me.

i will discuss all of these questions and more, including questions about u.s. policy and what the u.s. can and should be doing. it is a pleasure to be joined by a great panel . we have david enders. he will provide us with details about his time spent on the ground with rebels. we are delighted to welcome him here to fdd. after his report, i will turn to two of my outstanding colleagues. first, ammar abdulhamid, a senior fellow here at fdd. he writes about his perspectives. it has been vital and crucial. and finally, we hear from reuel marc gerecht, another senior

fellow here at fdd. he has provided commentary on middle east affairs. he is a former operative in the cia's clandestine service. he most recently wrote a very interesting and even compelling piece in the wall street journal. after our speakers finish, i will ask questions to get the conversation going. we will happily open it up to questions from the audience. wait for me to call on you. please identify yourself. we do have cameras rolling. let me also remind everyone that the session is on the record. if you have not done so already, please silence your cell phones. now david enders.

>> thank you for having me. if you cannot hear me in the back, give me a signal. i will try to stay close to the microphone. i have spent time in syria four times since the middle of february. three times i crossed illegally and once on a visa. it is almost easier going in a legally -- illegaly. he did not have the constraints of anyone threatening to arrest you. especially now that that u.n. monitors are no longer moving. when they were there, journalists were able to draft off them and move around. that made it a little easier as far as freedom of movement.

we found there was some freedom of movement if you were prepared to take risks. we were also detained and nearly arrested. that would have been bad for my siri and colleagues -- syrian colleagues. that has gave me almost two actual months of reporting inside the country and largely in the areas around homes. not in the homes themselves. rebels have not allowed journalists to travel with them into homes themself. we have made repeated requests to try to get in there. being in the area around it gives you a sense of what is going on. i was able to visit it briefly while following the monitors and trying to get an idea of some of the destruction that is taking place. as john was saying, what we are

seeing in the last few days does not come as a terrible surprise. in the last month and most of the rebels control a considerable amount of territory and are beginning to function as a defect of government in some areas, and especially rural areas. they were in a number of city center's until february and march, when they were pushed out. what seems to be happening is that the rebellion keeps growing. they say they have more men willing to fight than weapons. i think that is very true. we see tens of thousands of refugees going to turkey and lebanon. turkish refugee camps have become incubators for the

rebels. they have become places where they train and share information. they have become a staging ground. crossing the turkish border seems to be increasingly easy. we were briefly detained by the turks, by turkish soldiers coming out, who did not really know what to do with us. they told the syrians i was with to go back over the border, with five minutes for the commander to leave, and go back. there were a bunch of other people going across. they said, the soldiers are occupied, let's go. there are more people coming across the turkish border than they can really handle. you know, that is, i think, an indicator of what is going on. as far as the fighting in damascus, it is still confined to neighborhoods that have been very anti-regime since the beginning. i was in two neighborhoods in

may, and there was a lot of tension. there were demonstrations. there was a lot of rock- throwing. there were small bombings presumably by the rebels against security forces inside as neighborhoods. at that time, the people there were very in support of having the fsa inside the neighborhoods. the neighborhoods were full of refugees from homs and other parts of the country. i think that is another reason you are seeing these neighborhoods, specifically, start to fight. although now the fighting has come to damascus and, symbolically, that is extremely important and it makes it harder

for people to ignore this, which is one thing you hear the rebels talk about. now it has moved to damascus and people cannot pretend that it is not real. there is no guarantee that this is going to be very quick. we are looking at something that is very protracted. there are a number of people who are part of a very large government security apparatus who are probably looking around right now and going, i am dead or i am forced to leave the country, obviously, if these rebels succeed. unfortunately, i think we may be just looking at the beginning of a much more serious situation, a much more serious conflict, where people everywhere are forced to pick sides or flee.

i will leave it there. >> i want to start emphasizing some of these things that have been said in terms of the reach -- in terms of the reach of the actual rebels and what that means, really, in especially since the development of the last few days. one thing that is very clear -- i was watching a youtube video that was produced on the 18th of the rebels in the north, and especially the north parts of aleppo. they have formed a uniformed council of the north part of aleppo. that is a show of strength. you can see 10 minutes of the video, convoys of vehicles

passing by the camera. it is all rebel forces. that is something that is -- there are about 150 total. that is very impressive for that part of the country. there are not only -- they are willing to show strength publicly, and have such a long schilling of force. these are really under rebel control. in that part of a lot of, they are trying to come together under a unified command. you can not tell from the name that they intend to be and is amodei. -- an islamic brigade. the amount of unification that has taken place is a trend we have to monitor. it seems to me that this will be a trend that will continue. this is bred by the fact that a

lot of the people sending weapons are sending weapons to islamic groups. at the same time, the increasing frustration of the international community and the fact that it is doing everything to support pushing in one direction that exists out there. the days ahead, this is not a symbol -- a very surprising development. many cities in northern aleppo have come under control. the kurdish areas -- i will talk about that. the kurdish areas in all of the country's -- the populations have taken control of the political security apparatus is, the police stations, and they have thrown away the assad officials completely. before that, there was an uneasy

coexistence between the security forces and the kurdish leaders and activists. now that is no longer there. people took complete control. one of the things that facilitated this move was the recent agreement signed between the different kurdish factions, each specially the one that is the syrian equivalent of the pkk, and the coalition group of groups in syria. the capital of iraqi kurdistan is under the patronage. they have formed a unity government in their own territories. you have a kurdish element that autonomous, - but thom

with fighters being trained locally. they are providing for their own policing right now. the kurdish forces are, in a sense, separated from the established structure, and have created their own force. you have those and the north, the northern part of rural aleppo coming control of -- under control of rebel groups. people are focusing on damascus. the city is gradually falling to the control of the resistance and the fsa. several neighborhoods are under the control of people sympathetic to the revolution. we have seen now that a lot of demonstrations are taking place. this is a development of the last 48 hours. the trend -- the situation is that fluid.

we are talking about all this -- one thing that is very clear is that all of these areas under rebel control are being bombarded. not the kurdish areas, but the areas in aleppo are being bombarded. the rebels can take control of the cities, but they cannot prevent heavy artillery targeting their communities. they cannot prevent helicopter gunships attacking them. this is a challenge. the regime cannot really take and reestablish their control of these towns, but at the same time, the rebels, when they establish control, the bank cannot protect them against the mortar shells and missiles. unless there is awareness of this in the international community to begin stopping the

heavy artillery positions, to strike the airports from which the gun ships are coming, to at least let them take care on their own -- we are talking about a very worsening situation. a situation that would continue to be desolating. a situation where control on either side means nothing. assad is not able of establishing real control. rebels can establish control, but they cannot fend off the missiles. the deaths will continue. the dissolution of the country will continue. the other part of this story will also continue. during the question and answer session we can talk about this. ethnic cleansing is happening in the area, and that is the impression i get. my feeling is that the ethnic cleansing is happening in central syria. assad wants to retain control of

homs. already, 3/4 of the sunni population had left the city. the areas they have left have been destroyed. all of these neighborhoods that rose up against the regime are being leveled. they have seen nonstop shelling for almost two months now. also surrounding towns -- the idea is to destroy completely the cities, not to take them over with eight allied presence. there is no intention to take over the cities. the idea is to raise them to the ground and make sure there is nothing for them to come back to. ethnic cleansing is tapping north and -- happening north of homs.

the idea is to push as much of the population as possible to the western part. this is plan b, but it is the plan b that is almost becoming plan a at the same time. plan a is to reestablish control of the country and make sure that the opposition is defeated. this is not happening. plan b is to make sure that there is a majority in the central parts of syria. this is the plan that seems to be working. even with this plan becoming more and more embattled, it is hard to see how the resistance still taking place -- the fact that, after two months of shelling, control has not been reestablished, you would wonder at what point assad would

realize that these people are not going to give up. what am i going to do? this is when the situation gets into consideration. when you consider the fact that the state department leaked were shifted wmd's it from damascus in the direction of homs. the situation becomes that much more ominous. the debate in this country is, what are we going to do in case there is a wmd attack? what should be done to prevent it? we are seeing the signs on the ground. this is not an isolated incident. we are talking about ethnic cleansing campaigns -- we can see this happen. we're seeing movement of wmd's. we see an embattled regime and a pattern of behavior whereby it

gets more and more bloody and deadly. the more, or did they are, the more they unleash hell on everybody's. we cannot refuse the possibility will be used. instead of waiting for that to happen and thousands of people to die as we are watching within the next -- tomorrow, the day after -- instead of waiting for that, it is fine for us to act. the message would be sent not by simply having a statement by the white house. the message needs to be about airstrikes -- we want to target heavy artillery. we want to say we are willing to do this. then, the message might move in the minds of these people. right now, the international

community -- to be taken seriously by assad is to show yourself willing to get down and dirty. to actually say, we are going to issue a statement against you, that has not produced anything in the last 16 months. we're not looking for a theoretical position here. we have now and experiential -- an experience we have established in 16 months. we know that the ways they have used to deal with this situation are not working and producing the results that we want. if the obama administration is going to be always focused on winning this election and will forget about syria, by the time the election comes, assuming they win, we may not have a

country that is viable at that stage. a wmd may have already been used. the facts on the ground are unpredictable. we do not always know what is going to happen. there'll be more killing, potentially a disaster. exactly at what rate -- will it be tomorrow that you have a large massacre, or the day after? will another part of damascus get under the regime's control? will we start having killings now? these are the kinds of unpredictable elements that will happen. the timing will follow the trends -- they may not be predictable, but the pattern is

there. even with intervention, it will be -- the trip will be a long process. be a long process of putting the pieces of the puzzle back together, even with intervention. without intervention, the pieces will not be put back together. there are the ramifications for lebanon, iran, and turkey. we have this approach between the different groups. they are trying to secure their own borders. they realize that things are really getting out of control. i hope that something will happen before it is too late, i hope against hope. >> thank you. i will pick up where ammar left

and say that i sincerely hope that the presidentcost locke continues and that he can within 30 to 60 days claim -- president's luck continues and that he can claim in 3260 days victory for his astute policy of nonintervention. i hope that will be the case, though i do not think it will happen. iraq, there area roc some parallels here, if you examine the enmity that existed between the sunni and shi'a community magnify that by a power of 10, then you have something of an idea of what is happening. in iraq, you had the advantage

that most shi'a families, there was a lot of cohen mingling -- coming in. -- commingling. there were a lot internal breaks in the system that mitigated the desire for revenge and to come and slaughter. i think that those braking mechanisms are a lot less in syria. it is easy to imagine killing on a scale that we saw in lebanon, which i believe, if you add up the body counts, it is still the highest kill rate we have seen in the modern middle east. i would expect something like that, except even worse, maybe, in syria.

i do not think that the obama administration will be compelled to intervene by the humanitarian lost. i think we have clearly seen that it has no desire to play any strategic calculations. had that been the case, a desire to wound iran severely, a desire to drive putin's remaining base in the middle east out, a desire to simply get even for all of the american plot that has been shed by the assad regime, would have been compelling to at least unleashed the agency. i would emphasize that unleashed is a word -- this is almost tailor-make for covert action. it does not take a rocket scientist to do this one. they will not do it.

there is no desire in langley to encourage them. i do not see strategic talk relations coming into play. ss -- ianitarian los suspect the real figure is a lot higher than 20,000. the u.s. government since the figures are a lot higher. what is the difference? what is the difference between 40,060 thousand? i suppose, if you could see graphic footage day and night coming in to your living room, bedroom -- i do not think we will see that. i can easily see the death rate is accelerating rapidly and it not having any impact, really, in washington. i wish that were not the case. i hope sincerely that the slaughter somehow motivates strategic calculations -- where strategic calculations did not.

but i'm skeptical. i do think there is the wild card here, and it is pretty profound, and that is turkey. it is obvious that erdogan and the turkish army do not want to get involved. however, erdogan has made it clear that ties with assad are finished. they are certainly on the side of rebellion now, they just do not want to get involved. however, turkey does have a dynamic internal political calculation. this is closely followed by the turkish press. animus' hasi'a broken out in turkey. it started in turkey. it is possible to imagine the situation, particularly if aleppo continues to move in the direction of rebellion, or slaughter occurs in aleppo.

because of the enormous ties between the turkish community and aleppo in the south of turkey, to which the prime minister is highly focused on, one of the basis of power -- i think it is possible that you could see the turks become much more aggressive. it is possible. it would be much more telling than either the saudis, who remain totally helpless, or the jordanians, who are a little better, but this is way beyond them. the turks could do this. it is possible. if the turks were to do this, i could see president obama leading from behind. it is possible that you could then get american input. you could have greater american activity. you could have the agency working with the turks in coordinating the delivery of better weaponry, although i still think, as mark pointed out, if you have heavy

artillery and your drop in it on a.c.t. level, that is a fairly that is acity level, convincing argument. it is difficult to see and overcoming that. if they are not fearing a point of slaughter whereby they could lose the sunni components of the syrian army -- if there is no fear that, i see no reason why they do not slaughter everybody. the only way they will take up that heavy stuff, i think, is through some type of air action. unless the opposition somehow can get close to that, unless there can be some internal break in sight of the forces themselves -- inside the forces themselves, i am skeptical and have you take these out. you can take out the helicopters if the americans and turks for delivery right kind of weaponry.

a lot could be done. that would create a situation the regime does not expect to read the doom and gloom rarely since in -- sinks in. they would begin to reassess their loyalty to the alassane family -- assad family. i am skeptical you can get them to break. their only alternative to the exile or debt. somehow, i do not think -- i do not see them going there. if you have a sliver of hope that is where it is. if you will, through new accord and tactics, change the tactics, that will still doom and gloom. i hope that we saw in the last

two days will produce an expected unraveling and that president obama can go before us on television and say, see, i was right. >> thank you. a lot about u.s. policy. let me turn to david. let me see if i can get you to talk a little bit about your actual experience with the rebels that you did travel with. to get a little bit more regularity of what you make of it. who they are, what motivates them politically, are they seized with the kinds of issues of revenge and retribution that reuel discusses? i want to mention the increase in case of islam as asian -- islamization of the rebel forces. they feel increasingly abandoned, with their only help from other is lummis and the

hottest forces -- jihadist forces. i wonder if you could get your own sense of reality of what you saw? >> everything we have just heard is pretty much true. the sectarian nature of the conflict, and especially around homs, is very acute. we are seeing what does appear in some cases to be the syrian military or pro-government militias clearing out the area to the west of the orontes river, and for some villages east of that river. that is articulated all the time by rebels and residents of that area. i have travelled to some of these places where the sectarian cleansing has occurred.

at times, we find there is a lot more fighting, obviously. there are rebel presence is in this area. they then are not necessarily just attacking civilians. these areas are generally sympathetic to the revolution or harper is abating in the revolution. as he said, -- or are participating in the revolution. as you said, they seem to have two options. i have not heard any of the rebel group's offer -- groups offer any idea of what transitional justice would look like, other than, we would like to kill them. i think that, in part, that window has passed. people said, six months ago, we asked the international community for help. they said this would not drag on. the killing has gone so long -- to not go crying to us.

quite literally, those words. that is the general sense, e especially around homs, where at least since the end of last year it has been very pronounced as a conflict,us sunna with a small christian minority contract in the middle. there has been a lot of talk about christians being targeted specifically for being christian. i have seen no direct evidence of that. i have seen christians targeted because they were associated with the government. the rebels are very open about that. there are definitely, there are definitely -- everybody knows that quite a few syrians are muslims.

sorry, is that too close? ok. there are what we would think of as islamic factions amongst the rebels. at this point, the stated goal from virtually every group is that we want to get rid of assad. in more candid moments, rebels will talk about their fears for what happens after the fall of the government. are we going to have the various rebel groups with the various divisions for what a post-assad syria looks like fighting over that vision? that is a very real and very likely possibility. rebels talk about that themselves. you hear people say -- these complaints about the islamist factions receiving the bulk of the support seem to be well- founded. people are channelling aid it

from the gulf through syrians in the syrian gas rep. this seems -- diaspora. two groups -- amongst these fighters, i have met a number of fighters who were in iraq. i spend a lot of time reporting from iraq. if i mention i have been there, half of the guys will say, hey, have you been to fallujah? do you remember 2004? the fighters have frequently referred to homs as fallujah. that is very loaded. they both have ideas about what that means. but that is a very real elements to this. for me, it has been truly fascinating. in iraq, as an american

correspondent, i did not have access to these guys. it was almost impossible to meet with the sunna resistance or insurgency, what everyone to call it. now i am well, amongst them -- it has been very interesting to see how they fight and train, how they have become very adept at building roadside bombs. they are fighting a military and do not have the best equipment. to some extent, the strength of the syrian military has been overstated. they are using old russian armored personnel carriers and tanks that can be taken out with an rpg, without necessarily an armor-piercing rpg./ long-range shelling and helicopters are a serious issue, but they do seem to be

shooting down helicopters to fly low. i'm mostly saw helicopters flying too high to identify what kind of helicopter they were. we did see some attacks and strafing, but i would say that, as often as they did see m somewhat effective, they also seemed completely ineffective, or to spotting for artillery. going back to the islamist element amounts the rebels, there are also people who have said yes, we grew a beard and went and asked for money. just because they say they are jihadis, does not mean they then are. i have not seen any reports. i have not experienced any groups necessarily enacting any

kind of, i guess, islamic law in the areas they control. thatave seen the court's draw from local imams and leaders. rural syria is often a very conservative place. it is not surprising that you would see a lot of fighters, a lot of rebels, who are the highest or observant. you also seen many who are not. i spent a lot of time with a few different battalions. they consider themselves somewhat moderate. they then do say, yes, we would like to see something that looks more like egypt, where islamic political parties are allowed to

contest elections. that is perhaps the most articulate vision i have heard for what syria looks like post- assad. we want other parties to be able to participate who may not espouse necessarily secular ideals so i do not thi. so i do not think that is terribly shocking. >> thank you. if, in some way, shape, or form, assad does go, the issue of the fracturing of the state, whether they belong at -- whether they can establish a state in the northwest and the kurds are in control of territory now in the northeast and are quite

alienated and disaffected from the rebellion in the water part of the country, with its obvious sunni subtext -- given how far things have gone, do you see that now? is the most likely outcome of this chaotic fracturing if assad were to go? are the things we can do at this point in time to reverse that? >> even with assad staying in power, it is happening. the fracturing is now gone back. regions and regional realities have really become real. they are imposing themselves on the scene. in aleppo, it is not the same as elsewhere.

when i monitor what is happening in social media, you see that regional identities are solidifying. there is an overarching syrian identity, and even the kurds are not using separate language. everybody belongs to syria, but everybody is also saying, they do what a better deal than they used to have under the regime. that indicates to me that there is some kind of local autonomy, not a decentralization, but a very strong local feeling. when you add that to the fact that there are already rebels who are acquiring revolutionary legitimacy, even in their own minds -- not just in the minds of the people, but their own minds -- they think, what is it

for us now? it is not going to happen -- the fracturing is here. it is going to stay for a while. the challenge facing opposition groups inside and outside the country is to come up with a solution. we need an overarching political vision. we have been trying for a while in our discussion in the opposition -- you know that recently there was a meeting of opposition groups. this is taught us to come together here. the concept of decentralization is still something that a lot of them are seeing.

even though we talk about the reality of it, there is still this inability to transcend their own ideologies and think about what the others are doing and how we need to manage it. they are all potential managers of a different situation. they still think they will inherit the state as-is -- transitional justice, putting the economy back together. the idea they need to put the state's back together is not there yet. it is not just new buildings that need to be established -- it is putting the state back together. actually asking different people in different regions what their real aspirations are, and how do you envision your role in the future syria?

discussions we are not having in the opposition, that will be very difficult to even broach. for these reasons, the intervention is going to be difficult. for this reason, we need an intervention, because if the situation is ok, you need to do something, because that is fast becoming a reality. i think that we are very much near it. if we have to wait until after november, perhaps by that time we will have reached something different. we need to do something now. one of the conversations i have been having -- everything we are talking about, two months ago we

had been saying and predicting this. we will have massacres, and ethnic cleansing. this is not something that was not predicted. it was predictable. we talked about it. and yet we saw action. it seems to me that there is a tendency among the political to accept ant' fragmentation of syria. there is an idea that this is somehow managed or -- that that is what will happen. >> let me pursue that with reuel. and cigna -- sympathetic to what they have had to say. it has been a frustrating to watch an american administration fault -- hide behind the need for fake diplomatic processes and international conferences, all

of them seemingly completely divorced from the reality of what is happening on the ground and syria, all the while putting a veto in the hands of the likes of a vladimir putin over a moral tragedy like this that appears to cut vital american interests, not the least the struggle with the iranian. s. having said that, the alternative arguments, as the present cost supporters could say, is, look at what has happened. not a single american soldier or a plan has and put at risk. lots of words, very little action, a little bit of digital -- logistical support. virtually on their own, the syrian people have struggled and possibly brought this regime to the cost of defeat. they are able on their own to

get to the inner sanctum and blow parts of it to kingdom come. to have this regime, in a sense, on the run. as bad as iit is, as much as there have been humanitarian disasters, many people have died, but this is all coming around. this guy was going to go 11 months ago. lo and behold, that may be happening still. with very little american effort or rest. the risk-reward ratio at the moment, i suppose one could argue, looks good, even better than what happened in libya. if you are sitting with the president, i wonder if you hear this kind of argument -- how you persuade him otherwise? not to mention that the course that he has been on is entirely in keeping with where, i

believe, the majority of the american people are, who are war-weary and fed up with middle eastern problems and completely consumed with our own difficulties here at home. what is the case to make to the president? >> at this time, i do not think you could make a compelling case. i think it is the narrative right now that you just outlined -- the narrative that appeals to lots of republicans on the hill. you would want him, i think, to display the insight and fortitude to say that -- that george study bush had when he launched a search -- geroge w. bush had when he launched the surge, when everybody in his

inner circle was against that. but the only way the inner circle change -- the only way the narrative changes is when assad does not fall, nbc 100,000 people dead. -- when you see 100,000 people dead. i do not know where the line is where suddenly that is not a narrative you want to have any more. but i suspect that it is somewhere between 100,200 thousand people dead. where that line is -- 100,000 and 200,000 people dead. you hear the argument on the republican side, let them all slaughter each other. without a look at least -- calculation -- -- without a strategic calculation. i think that that is also powerful.

i would emphasize, if you had to put your finger on something that will change the dynamic here, that has to be turkey. i think that president obama is out of this one unless you see something happen in turkey, or if you see the slaughter accelerating at such a rate that we are morally obliged to do something. it is possible that the fsa could declare aleppo a free city and set up an opposition government. it could figure out some way had to stop the armor, artillery, the planes, from driving them out at least for a while. you could rapidly change the dynamic. it would certainly be an interesting move with turkey. if they can do it. i do not think they have the

wherewithal to do it right now. it's something like that were to occur, you could get a autonomous benghazi scenario that would have traction in turkey and maybe even be a compelling argument in washington. >> david, could i get your quick thoughts on this issue? how susceptible is the current conflict to outside intervention that would have a positive shaping influence on where the conflict goes and the immediate -- in the immediate period, and what might come after that? >> a number of people -- we have seen in the rebels give up on international intervention. the key dynamic in the last six months is that they have decided they have to go it alone, one way or the other. they have done that. they have created networks. turkish intelligence could be more involved than we are

getting. there is some evidence and talk of that. they have managed to secure weapons. flow ofe a regular tou weapons. they do not seem to have money issues. the trajectory is that it will take down the government or forced into an enclave. intervention -- if we are talking about bonding -- bombin g, taking a defenses, do we want to be responsible for what would likely be the ensuing massacre of the minority? what will fill that power vacuum? at this point, there is a vacuum that is part of the total vacuum. after the government falls, that

could be even more serious. i do not necessarily see an intervention that prevents the lessening the death toll by taking away the government's ability to use these heavy weapons. other than that, i think that all of the dynamics we are talking about still exist, even if we are involved or not. you have to figure at the issue of what we just saw in libya -- what happens when the dump a bunch of weapons on a country? where do these weapons go? do they fall into the hands of its lummis fighters who are then going to attack our allies in fighters whoamist will then go and attack our allies in jordan? i do not think there is a clean

intervention in any sense of the word. increasingly, the rebels say that they do not want nato. we are going to do it ourselves, and we will be better off because we have done it ourselves. >> an interesting issue -- how you define victory in this situation? if you define it as sending assad to the country or killing him, if that is enough for you, then perhaps they can do it with weapons as clashes intensified and forced assad to leave or go to an allied country. if that is the definition of victory -- but if the definition of victory is creating a stable country, that is difficult.

that requires a lot of management. if that is the definition of victory, we cannot simply watch and say that this is acceptable , that what is happening is what should be happening to read we need to . many have said that the opposition needs a strategy. we do not want an entire military campaign. some weapons will go to the revolutionaries -- we do not even want a lot of sophisticated weaponry, because we do not want a situation where militias are armed. air strikes and weapons -- when

you allow these people to go into areas of forces, your alleviating all the concerns. the problem about this plan is not that is not realistic or practical -- not that it is not realistic or practical. we're dealing with the international community -- it is not as if the conflict will resolve itself in the right way. we do not have to worry about islamists being in power - we have a wish list that is very ong, but you are not willing to do anything to make these wishes come true. we -- the intervention that is

needed is one that is doable. if you have enacted it months ago, it would have been even easier. but there is no other way around it. if you want stability to the outcome in syria. but if you do not care about stability, if you can live with chaos, then all of you have to do is watch and enjoy the show. >> let's turn it over to the audience. people will introduce themselves to be -- please identify yourselves to the audience. in the front row. >> turkey's position seems ambivalent and perhaps incoherent. as we speak to turkish diplomats off the record, as i have, you come to the conclusion that turkey's position is ambivalent and perhaps into europe. i would love for you to try to explain what their calculation is -- anybody who i know. i know you look at this, you

have a lot of experience in turkey. >> i think ambivalent is exactly it. it is the kurdish issue -- that is one important situation. there is a point of view in the turkish establishment that what is happening is a normal process. it is part of their identity issue. on the other hand, turkey wants to be sure that any instability do not fall into turkish areas. that is behind the agreement that happened between the turkish factions -- they then want to ensure that the kurds control all the borders. they are very pragmatic about the kurdish question. they are friendly.

they want to have a stable partner in iraq -- and we will see a similar scenario happened in the kurdish enclave across the borders in syria. for them, as long as they can get that out, and perhaps some reports, whether it is intelligence or other things to ensure that they can take it to assad, they then are happy with the outcome. i do not think it and even what airstrikes, especially if they are in the obama positions. >> i think that there is the component that in turkey, the mindset has permeated that the arabs are just bad news.

they are an enervating factor, the weak part of the ottoman empire, a destruction to turkish foreign policy, which is to stay away from them. they have tried to change that, but it is still there. it is in the body politic. certainly inside of the military. needless to say, erdogan and the turkish military do not have a very positive relationship. at on the troubles between the civilian government and the turkish military, which is under siege, the military has no desire whatsoever to go in there. the arabs are always bad news. it is extremely difficult to get the turks to go there. you can get the turkish intelligence to do a little bit more -- that is doable. but again, this is not their bailiwick.

the turks have not had a pleasant experience is when they have tried to project power. the invasion of cyprus was a logistical mess. they really do not want to go there. but it is still conceivable, if you look at where turkish rhetoric and actions are now, backdated 12 months, it is quite a big difference. change is still possible. >> i'm from palestine. i want to remain on the regional idea. one country is jordan -- i assume that jordan is worried about chaos and fragmentation. what can jordan do? what can they to be expected to do? the second is qatar. we think of other arab countries

pushing an islamic agenda. what are they doing in syria? what is the country doing there? >> for me, i would like very much to see jordan be more hospitable to rest -- for refugees, to begin with. there are problems in this area. i do not think they will results soon. i know that jordanian officials would not comment on that, but that is an issue they should be involved with. they are not doing a good job at this stage. the other thing that is happening is that they seem to be not realizing that they can easily drive themselves into a conflict across the border. there were reports about clashes between jordanians and the syrian armies on the border. i would not discount that.

it happened across the border with turkey, with jordan -- loyalists militias are trying to stop the ball from fleeing. the jordanians mike find themselves in a position -- might find themselves in a position. it is likely that some scenario like that will happen. i think that the jordanians will begin to think about ways to actually reach out across the border and begin working on trying to show a relationship of their own, like the turkish have treated they can develop partners among the resistance. they can make sure it stays stable and friendly. that is one thing the jordanians

can do. that is a important step, that they adopt that mind-set. your second question on the it is happening,on, but i would not say it is the trend. it is a trend among trends. it is not necessarily coming from the government, but individuals are doing it. this is problematic in itself, and the brotherhood, as far as the movement is concerned, it is among the islamic factions we are seeing. we're talking about islamization -- the brotherhood has been enshrined.

they have repeatedly talk about special minority rights. this is a good thing, i think. we still need more guarantees, we have to talk about the actual structure of the state and how things should be, and not blindly trust anyone. they still have a distance to go. about those groups -- they then are movements you can actually interact with. the brotherhood is there. the other movements are new and becoming aware of themselves. one movement has grown in syria -- they already have groups in different parts, in aleppo. they have concerns with cooperating with other groups. they are calling openly for an islamic state.

even other groups are not calling openly for an islamic state. the membership is limited, but it could be problematic on a local level. on the national scene, they are all minorities. every movement, every group, every region -- they are all minorities right now. it is a regional identity. there are political divisions. because of the fragmentation that is happening now, having a group like that in a damascus, that has created a problem. they control this area -- nobody is saying, nobody is saying the transition will be easy, but at the same time i do not envision that the south and the north

will fight against each other, and especially if there is an international will to somehow manage the situation and empower the dialogue between these groups. >> i could speak to jordan. i think jordan has slowly been pushed into becoming more supportive. i think the majority of jordanians are very supportive of the revolution. i spent a couple of weeks in march trying to get across the jordanian border with a group of fighters who were being funded by individual donations . they then were not able to get across in march. the jordanians were not letting anything across. they were occasionally engaging in skirmishes with the syrian military, apparently to cover

refugees who were fleeing. the jordanians would, apparently, engage syrian soldiers who were attacking people fleeing into jordan. as far as refugees, there are a lot of iraqis to feel -- who feel that for the first year of the conflict they were openly supportive. when we have reached the point where people are fleeing with virtually nothing because they then are forced to, the jordanians have quietly sort of shut down their borders and, hopefully, activist will be able to convince them otherwise, but iraqis seems to have a very very little success in doing so. jordanian to speak to -- politicians and businessmen, they largely study tipping point for jordan being when the trade

route was no longer viable in syria. when they then were losing more economically by not coming out against assad then they were gaining. as syria continues to sort of fragment and fall apart, we will probably reach that point with jordan. now, it does seem that they are at least allowing fighters to cross the border again. with weapons. >> thank you. we will take other questions. >> i am a journalist. when you are in beirut, dec people like hezbollah -- do you see people like as a la? hezbollah?

>> i am wondering, refugee camps in turkey are being used as a staging ground for rebel groups. i'm wondering if the panel had any recommendation as to how we can protect the integrity of those camps as places for protection and humanitarian aid, rather than active of variables in conflict? >> one from the back? >> i have heard some concerns about command and control capabilities of the rebel groups in trying to coordinate 3 youtube -- through youtube, and it has been remarkably fortunate

in the past few weeks. has that changed, and what is your impression of their command and control capabilities? >> do you want me to take all three? >> the first in the last. >> as far as hezbollah, in the border areas, when you are crossing from lebanon to syria, there is talk about hezbollah fighters patrolling those areas. but inside the route, inside tripoli, lebanon in general, as a foreign correspondent i feel safe. there were some reports four months ago, five months ago, from the syrian embassy threatening journalists. but nothing like that seems to have happened since then. as far as preventing the camps from becoming a staging ground, their art turkish soldiers stationed at these camps searching bags, but i think that

as long as you allow syrians to come in, they will be planning and using these areas. the turks are patrolling the border very heavily. to some extent, there is such a volume that it is very hard to do anything about it without dedicating a lot more manpower. to making sure the scams are not used that way. the third question -- >> about command and control. >> the rebels have at least three tv stations that broadcast on satellite. one of them is very slickly produced and has obviously a lot of support. we do see -- skype is becoming a major tool of the revolutionaries. they have satellite internet in a lot of places.

they use skype to coordinate a lot of things. they use infrastructure out of necessity, out of necessity it has gotten better. they are coalescing under command in larger areas. we are seeing them unite whatever larger groups of rebels, sometimes loosely, sometimes somewhat strictly. that is just a natural development. >> it is also correct to say that the cia and the turks have delivered ined radio equipment. >> there was a question on refugees. in turkey. most of -- all of the refugee

camps exist in this area. only one camps has military offices. they to take part in planning their. the other camps, as far as i know, only civilians are there. they have a lot of limitation on the movements anyway. they cannot really take an active part in operations. talking about areas outside the camps, these artificial refugees who are not in the camps -- i see a problem for the -- i do not see a problem for the integrity of the thames. -- camps. >> i did not say operational centers. it is much less formal. there are areas around the towns where there are lots of refugees. a young man sharing information, how to build bombs, do this, do that. it turned into kind of a joke.

journalists were not allowed to go into the camp. we were looking and there were turkish soldiers stationed at the entrance of the camp and, if you hundred meters away, a big hole in the kantor people were coming and going freely. that sort of -- a hole in the tent where people were coming and going freely. that steve is an idea of where -- how tight it really was -- and gave us an idea of how tight security really was. >> a country that has not been mentioned -- israel. in the context of potential use, or the loosening of chemical weapons, what you think the israeli calculations are now? do you see any possibility in which the israelis would have to get involved in ter? >> i do not think the israelis have any great desire to get involved.

obviously, chemical weapons and biological weapons would be a significant factor for them, and they would try to watch that very closely. i do not know what the israeli network is in sight of syria. i expect it is very haphazard. their ability to correct -- collect nontechnical intelligence is probably somewhat limited. i do not see -- i suppose that they might decide to limit weaponry. -- provide weaponry. there are certain groups that would take that weaponry. but i suspect that they see their role as to be in reserve. >> ok. we have reached 11:00. please, everybody join me in thanking the palace. [applause]

-- thanking the panelists. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> >>, chicago mayor rahm emmanuel and secretary of transportation ray lahood talk about infrastructure. after that, a look at census figures for american businesses and households. then, president obama and mitt romney comment on the shootings at the colorado movie theater. >> at this weekend, from new york city, the harlem book fair. live coverage starts with a panel discussion on the future of african american publishing. then, in the public education. at 3:30, cornell west sits in on a panel examining the presidential election. at 5:00, a panel celebrating the

150th anniversary of the emancipation proclamation. at sunday, the eagle forum collegian leadership summit. the call book fair and the eagle forum collegian's leadership summit, this weekend on c-span 2. now, ron emmanuel -- rahm emmanuel discuss the ongoing debate between tax levels and development. he says when businesses are given certainty, they will create jobs. he spoke at a center for american progress event on infrastructure projects and the economy. transportation secretary ray lahood introduced him and delivered brief remarks. this is just under one hour. [applause] >> i do not want to take any time away from what the mayor

would want to talk about. i will get right to it -- my introduction of him. if some of you afterwards want , i would bea minute abou happy to do that. a few days before the last presidential election, i got a phone call from rahm emmanuel. he said to me,b barack wants me to be his chief of staff. i said, do you think we ought to have the election first before you think about what your next job is? he called me a few days after and said, i will take it. notwithstanding what i told him, which was that i think this is a very bad idea -- you have a great job, you are a great congressman, you will be the first jewish speaker of the house, from illinois, it to be great for our state. he ignored all of that good

advice. i said, by the way, it will be terrible for your family. you'll never see them. then, we talked>> then, we talked about whether i was a good enough republican to join the administration, and he said to me what do you think you would be interested in, and i said agriculture, and he said no, you will not, you are interested in transportation, always thinking long term about what his ideas and goals are. this guy is very smart, politically and policy why is -- policy-wise. if i owe the privilege that i have to serve as secretary of transportation to two people. obviously, the president, and to my friend, rahm emanuel. he and i became president -- became friends and he called me and said i want to work in this delegation in a bipartisan way

for illinois, and not just chicago, or my district, and from that time on we became dear friends and we our dear friends because we care about getting things done in solving problems. because i think we are both in these government jobs for the right reasons, to get things done than solve problems. we call hosted by partisan bidders. he invited seven or eight democrats. i would invite seven or eight republicans, and these bipartisan dinners how to forge relationships that lasted beyond our congressional careers. for those of you that do not know, when rahm emanuel ran for mayor, he knew that he wanted to transform the city in a way that it had not been transformed, and what i mean by

that is he went to every l site and station, every transit station in the city of chicago to introduce himself. i think there are 125. 147. he went to everyone because it is a great way to feature it is herself and talk to people and also -- great way to introduce herself, and talk to people, and also to talk about transportation. a lot of people in chicago do not own cars. this is the way people live their lives in the city of chicago. rahm smart enough to know it is a good place to meet people and tell people what your agenda is. he recently announced an

infrastructure plan for the city of chicago, not just trains and buses, but he brought with him to chicago a guy named dave that transformed the city that we live in into the most livable, sustainable community in america, with one of the largest by share programs, with a community that will have streetcars, that has a very good metro system, and gave under the mayor's leadership, will have chicago had the largest but share program in the country. that is a -- bicycle sharing program in chicago. that is a terrific goal.

his plan is more about transit and auto buses. it is about the whole infrastructure of the city, roads and bridges, sewers and water, aging infrastructure, but also about a vision. good policy can transform the city, because when you have good infrastructure, would you are able to do is attract people -- what you are able to do is attack people for business, jobs, and young pete -- attract people for business, jobs, and young people that want to live in the city. it means more jobs and businesses. that is what this plan is about. the other thing that i think is a little bit surprising to people about rahm's leadership is how he has been able to work with a 50-member city council. i do not know of any other time in the city of chicago, but the

50-member city council unanimously passed his budget. i believe that is a record. to get 50 alderman to do anything unanimously, let alone passed the city budget next that talks about -- budget? that talks about rahm's ability to work with people and his strong leadership. i could go on. you have done the homework, reading stories about how he is transforming education, transit and housing, and i know he will talk about all of these things. the reason we have that some success in our working transportation is because we of good partners in governors and

mayors, and we have a great partner in the mayor of chicago for what he is done, for what he wants to do, it for his vision. it is not just about him, it is about the people, and what you do to serve the people to continue to make chicago the great city that it really is and will continue to be. so, i am delighted to say to all of you, we have great leadership all over america, and extraordinary leadership. rahm is off to a great start. please welcome the mayor of chicago, rahm emanuel. [applause] >> thank you again, secretary lahood. >> i will let the record to show that i paid for all of those jitters he talked about. -- dinners he talked about. [laughter] we will start with questions from the moderator the universe -- moderator.

recently, the university of chicago put out a report that talks about economic growth in chicago. it talks and the most significant challenges -- about the opportunities and the most significant challenges. it discusses the opportunities in health care, manufacturing and transportation. perhaps that could provide a context for describing what the chicago infrastructure trust is about and how it works? >> the report noticed that we have the largest job creation and the biggest drop of unemployment in any major city, and a lot goes into that. on the infrastructure committee

deals with the airport, the mass transit system, the community colleges, schools, roads, water and parks. it is an integrated plan. if you took mass transit, by way of example, we have more people on our mass transit in a month that all of amtrak in an entire year. 60% of the people take mass transit to get from home to work, and i see that is the key economic advantage, just taking that one piece. every child will live within a 10 minute walk of parks, but on the mass transit, i see it as a key strategic economic advantage. companies are leaving the suburbs to come to the city because of our quality of life, and we have an advantage in moving people quickly from home to work.

united airways open their operation center in chicago. i did a town hall with them. a lot of people came, and one of the things they talked about that they loved was that unlike other cities where the drive for one hour or one hour in 20 minutes to get to work, they could bicycle, or get on mass transit. i take the mass transit system twice a week. i just took it yesterday. i get to work using it. it is two blocks from my house to the train. i take the train downtown. it is an incredibly important investment. we are replacing two/thirds of our entire trains, two-thirds of our auto bosses out of the stations. 100 of them will be repurchased, rebuild for totally new construction. near our convection center, we

could get there by bus or -- convention chapter, we could get there by bus or train, and we will have a new station -- taxi, and we will have a new station. it is the huge economic advantage. we have launched a $2 billion infrastructure investment in that mass transit system with the fundamental view that you cannot have a 21st century economy operating and the 20th century foundation. it is not sustainable. it just cannot happen. however mass-transit system is something, as companies -- our mass transit system, as companies look to relocate -- your work force is your most important investment, and after that any effective mass transit

system, it is one of the calling cards to get the work force the companies want today. i see it as a huge piece of economic strategy. >> is the chicago infrastructure trust partner with that, or part of mass transit? >> it is totally separate. the community colleges -- we have 6 colleges. we are building two new campuses. we have cut $120 million out of the central office, and we will get into the new malcolm >> campus, which will be for health care. the new airport, federal, local, working with the airlines cetera. -- etc.. the first project they're going to look at it is retrofitting $20 million worth of work in the cultural center. -- $200 million worth of work

in the cultural center. we are aggregating several things. there will be the first project at the board will look at other things people recommend. >> do you have a sense of how many jobs were created from the retrofitting project? >> yearly estimate is 1200-to- 1500. on water, we of the largest water investment in the country. 900 miles of pipes will be replaced, if everything 100 years or older. 700 miles of sewer will be replaced. two of the largest water filtration plants in the world will be rebuilt, ok?

it is decade-long work, and of the sewers, two thirds of everything that is 100 years or older will be replaced. 2,000 miles of road will be repaid. we are lying broadband. we are preparing for the future. this summer we renegotiated something with the laborers' union. 75 jobs. we renegotiated the starting salary. we gave them certainty of work, and they came down in wages, etc. >> to save money. >> save money. >> how many people do you think applied for the labor's jobs? how much? >> 10,000. >> 10,000 people for 75 jobs. clearly, if i could find other ways to do it, we could do more,

and we need it. i am proud of capital investment, but there is more work to be done then we can actually do, but the workers waiting to do this, carpenters, electrical engineers, laborers, bricklayers -- 10,000 people applied for 75 jobs. it is a telling sign. by the way, when we head-on, we get -- when we are done, we have done studies, two years of residential water users will be saved and we lose now through leakage. we have everything mapped out by year. they pulled up a tree trunk with a water pipe, and they put a tiny little thing for me and put it on my desk because the wire reports guys and we are on track to get 69 miles, and the goal is 70.

we are getting 70 miles done. i wrote 69 is not 70, remember your goal. [laughter] they pulled up a tree trunk in the city of chicago which is our water pipe. chicago is not alone. that is all over the country. when we are done, two years' worth of residential water users will be saved that we now lose to leakage, and last year, a car driving in milwaukee fell down. there was a picture of a man climbing a lot of the 14-foot hole.

just from a pipe that busted. that's all over the city. >> that is this interesting question about where we are here and at the local level. water is interesting question. you can save money, you can put people to work. there is a big demand for jobs. we know over the long term we save money when we make these investments, retrofitting, water savings. it makes us competitive over the long term. why has there been such a challenge to make these arguments, and if you want to skip over the politics of washington, one of the reasons the chicago infrastructure trust is so attractive is it is a way to make progress when washington is slowing down.

>> the water thing, to the city's council credit, that was part of a 50-0. we could sell the water utility, but i think we know what happens when we do that. like the parking meter, i'm against that. we 63900 broken pipes a year. we band-aid our way there. it will get done by 2057, or we can decide the status quo is not acceptable. we will put together the resources, all the our own water utility, and fixed it. we're not going to been made the problem away or hope it goes away. secondly, -- begin date the problem away, or hope it goes away. secondly, the states have their own issues. when we passed our infrastructure trust, there was not a highway bill.

ray lahood has been a great proponent of the most innovative piece of the legislation, which is kind of the cousin of what we are doing on the infrastructure trust. it is a different model. is a smarter capital investment. i said to the chickadee -- to the city of chicago that we will cut losses here, into the water, but we have to take our own destiny into our own hands as best as we can, and we cannot leave our own destiny to washington for the dysfunction or springfield's budget-cutting exercise. i understand what springfield is going to do, but i'm not going to let chicago become hostage to

this dysfunction. no city can survive with an aging infrastructure, but chicago, the second busiest airport in the country, one- quarter of all cargo runs to the city on rail and our roads, not counting our mass transit. if it is rail, road or a runway, it is coming to chicago, and it is part of our economic interest. given that, and i have a sustainable view based on mass transit i believe we have to set up another tool in the toolbox. the infrastructure trust is a tool. it does not mean you do not invest in new campuses like malcolm x.

it does not mean that when it comes to water you do not do what you need to do or in our airport -- we are building the equivalent of another midway airport with that many runaways. it does not mean you do not do those things. you say what other tools can i get to achieve the economic objectives of our city? the trust is another tool. it brings in pension money. the labor pension money is coming in. it brings in financial interests. they take the risks. we only asset. we get to use it, and we owned it. it is the rejection of privatization, in my view the wrong model. we still own it, but we finance it a different way. it really works when you evaluate from an economic perspective. doing the old thing, if there is

a cost overrun, the taxpayers bear it. on the infrastructure projects, if there is a cost overrun, the investors bear it. would you agree that we are the most free enterprise economic system in the world? >> we agree, for sure. >> here is. we are the most free-market country in the world, it we do our it infrastructure in the most socialist way in the world. all these other countries that are not as free market, they do it infrastructure trust type things. it is just a tool. the transportation department exist. it is another tool in their toolbox. it helps you achieve the goal and it makes economic sense. >> has there been resistance from the private sector because you own the access?

>> the first thing we were looking at is in the trunk -- retrofit, but the first entity to say they were excited was the union pension, secondly the foundations, and then obviously, the third, a lot of people that have had traditional resources and money available for infrastructure want to be involved. since this time, i think washington, oregon, and california are thinking of an infrastructure bang for their region. it is something people will look at because our economy is growing like this, and our foundation is moving at the space. >> or falling behind. >> it is clearly not keeping up. >> right. >> think of it this way. can you imagine chicago without o'hare, economically? we announced four weekly flights to beijing direct.

you cannot imagine chicago. ge transportation just moved headquarters out of the erie, pa., to chicago. why? they can get anywhere in the world directly. if we do not invest in modernization, i will not recruit co.. is a direct correlation, and i am putting people to work -- correlation -- is a direct correlation. i am putting to people -- people to work. >> do you think this could be more universally applied, a mechanism for larger city mayors and small city mayors? >> well, we are doing it for chicago. i am only interested in chicago. other people can look at what they want to do. it cannot replace something. i want people to understand that.

it is not like i'm going to force -- i'm not going to force my community colleges to figure out how to build a new campus. we will apply ideas, the traditional model we have for the airport. we will use the infrastructure trust where it makes sense for us. we will do we need to do on the water on our own. it is a tool, and where the tool works you will apply it, and where it does not work, you will not apply it. you have to have the tool available. the notion to you are not going to make something available to yourself when economic needs and the vitality of the city require it -- and i do not think we could have the type of job growth and a drop in unemployment -- it is not like i'm sitting next to google. we have a diverse economy.

part of it is the job growth we got through the infrastructure and investment piece of it. >> the connections to manufacturing especially. it starts with low interest rates. can the cit take advantage of that? should mayor's look at that because you have that opportunity right now? >> let me say one clarifying thing. the trust is not for basic maintenance and upkeep. it is for transformative investments you can not do any other way. you have to have good people running the system. rosie is here also. there she is. tom runs water.

those people to the infrastructure for the city. in my view, it is right for cities, regions, or states that have things of scale. obviously, you have to have a revenue stream that pays it back. >> i will get the questions. why the community college is essential -- we opened up the largest air cargo at a gateway airport in the city of chicago. 11,000 jobs. they said what you are doing at the community college is guaranteeing the work force -- will give us certainty we can put this here. it is creating a facility for 1000 jobs. two, this is an example of direct funding. we will build a facility near mccormick place and i want to get it done in short order.

>> i wanted to make sure the city of chicago was not held hostage. even now the washington passed the transportation bill, it is only 18 months. i cannot plan chicago's future on an 18 month basis. that is crazy. i have to have a tool available but i call it breakout strategy for the city's economic and job creation. >> this question comes from

george mason university. and for structure has built the backbone of great society's. how can we could with the country that infrastructure investment is crucial? >> i call the rebuilding. our sciences building a new chicago. i hate the word infrastructure. one of the things that gets lost -- in the 19th -- 1950's when we invested money it in infrastructure, we grew at 4%. what we downshifted to% -- 2%, we grew on average 2%. the other way, infrastructure is a platform. everybody built their apps off

that platform. if you have the right road, airports, water, schools, broadband, mass-transit and all the other platforms that take off of that can go. i have never had a company or colorado come to me and not want to talk about some pieces of the marginal,if it's whether our mass transit or airport. i had the company move race -- a flight schedule because of where their other offices were. their no. 1 decision -- we have the best work force in the country in chicago. you can get them to and from work efficiently, we will fix this city every time. >> the next question comes from the department of commerce.

>> what are you doing out of the office? get back to work. [laughter] >> steny talk about your plans for engaging american may factures in chicago -- manufacturers in chicago? >> the only thing i can think of -- we have a big ford auto plant on the south side of chicago. we have improved the real and road access to this plant. a major investment. they added a third chip. so the infrastructure mattered. it is the best exporting plants of all ford plants in the country. they added a third shift. they also make their -- will be

ordering cars anyway for the police department. we gave a two. it vantage if it is made locally -- we give a 2 point advantage if it is made locally. we had a local preference to that plant. but i want also to go back. when you tally it up, it is close to $200 million to improve the efficiency of the plant. it is the best exporter in the fourth factor -- ford family of factories. to organize a trip to announce it, i have to come in a 10 minute window during lunch because they did not want me to

interrupt. that is how precise the are. >> how did you get council members unanimously passed their budget? >> the chicago way. [laughter] they saw a bright future for themselves. no. we had a healthy debate. don't laugh too hard. it was my first budget. we had a healthy debate. we did a number of things there that we had been discussing for a long time. our garbage collection is $2.20 a ton -- 220 a ton. we got good covers. i never knew it was that good. be implemented a great.

in the past, garbage got picked by ward. we have 50 words. -- 50 wards. we will save $20 million just being efficient. we debated this 20 years. second item -- half the city does recycling, half does not because we never had the money. we set up a competition. one sector is sanitation workers, one sector is with management. both unions. streets and sanitation said we will win that. we have enough savings in the system now for the same dollars we are taking its citywide. debated it, done. third, we have seven community

health care clinics. we showed we could get better health care and save the taxpayers $100 per visit. federally qualified community operators. things like that we have done through innovation. we were honest with people. you cannot continue to do the same thing and hope for a different result. that also give us ideas with the improved on original ideas i had. be implemented them. -- we implemented them. major nonprofits got free water. don.e

-- done. for the smaller nonprofits, we did it over time but for the big institutions, we ended it. i think the city council looked at it. their vote -- this is also where the water investment came from. >> another question -- would be useful to add education and health care to infrastructure? should we be thinking more expansively about the quality of life and things we all need? >> beyond the building of a school? >> i think if you think about it for structure at the kind of things we all need, health care, education, we think of them as human issues and maybe we should

think of them more broadly. >> no. they used to be a great " -- can you -- you have any questions for my answers. -- there used to be a great quote -- do you have any questions for my answers. we are transforming our community colleges to career based. washington will soon become professional services. we will culinary and hospitality. it, advanced manufacturing. we have had the industry leaders in those fields to the curriculum and training of the professors. we picked those six growth fields of what to train a work force in. your workforce is your most

important thing. i love what i'm talking about on the physical side. we have graduates from the big 10 and the largest alumni of any city in the country. our work force is incredibly hard-working. the national average for a for your constitution -- institution is 34%. but i want to make sure that those kids at the community college level has -- have as much of a chance for the future as kids coming out of booth. i'm glad we have all of these schools. they come to chicago. it is like a caravan. i have 127,000 kids going to

community colleges or returning adults. i owe them an education and career opportunity. that is the biggest investment we will make on our post high school education. corporate seen america as excited about education. i have never seen something work on the street as exciting. i just made an announcement. its first academic investment in 40 years. a new innovation for design and software development. crane wrote there is 4,000 plus computer analyst job openings and 3800 web designers. that is on an average every

month in chicago. that will be true in new york. in the city. getting people trained is our responsibility. i want to make sure we have the work force. i cannot see the trust doing that. i do not see as paying off to the loans that way. then we take that off the list. other cities may not control their community colleges. we do. i will make sure that graduate has a chance for the future. >> just a few more questions. given the money can now be spent on anything a state once, how to mayors and around the country convince governors and state leadership that bike pedestrian programs were not investments? >> let me try to figure out a clean way to say this. [laughter]

i will say it wrong but here it is -- a lot of times the federal government is designed to go to the states. as a congressman, direct funding is not at the top of my list. as the mayor, i have become a convert. i would love to see more federal government -- first of all, i can give you a telling analysis of that. capacity -- it is not just that we're closer. why add another layer to transfer and have another box checked and another analysis going on? the truth is -- getting another approval process is about nine months to a year. not everybody is working with

the same sense of urgency. obol love to see more direct funding. -- i would love to see more direct funding. why the community college thing is essential -- we open up the largest air cargo at the gateway airport in the country. it created 11,000 jobs. why? because what they be dick because they said what we are doing will give us the search and see -- because they said what we are doing will give us certainty. we were trying to -- we are going to build a facility near mccormick place. i want to get it done in short

order. there's nothing there. to get the facility built, they were talking about the requirements mainly on the state level. we are talking about getting it done by 2016. there was a year for an environmental study. there is nothing there. what is to study? without the state to let us move it forward. -- we got the state to let us move forward. but it is that layer of for -- of bureaucracy. why do i have to answer the same questions at the state level that i have to enter at the federal level? it is not like the state doesn't have the interest. but it is just somebody checking a box that i have already

checked. i would like to get going. direct funding to cities in particular places, as long as the standards are what the feds want, i do not need another layer to see if they're happy. >> and as long as you have accountability mechanisms to request -- mechanisms. >> my governor has the same interest. >> what cities outside the u.s. d.c. as a model for innovative infrastructure building? >> you do not have to go far. there are a hundred 27 projects in canada. in canada.