[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] host: good morning. with congress on a five-week august recess the parties preparing for their nominating conventions president obama spending this weekend his birthday weekend at camp david. later in the week he travels to connecticut for campaign fund raisers and then a series of in colorado. meanwhile mitt romney is in iowa and new york city this week. the democrats drafting their party convention next week in detroit, michigan. and of course the speculation

continues on the republican nominee for vice president. and we want to focus on mitt romney's running mates. we're asking to hear from republicans only. here are the numbers. tomorrow we will focus to hear democrats only. who should mitt romney pick as his running mate? a couple headlines this sunday morning. and from the weekly standard go for the gold is this editorial by bill crystal.

the headline from this weekly standard editorial, go for the gold, mitt. you can join the conversation on our facebook page and twitter.

our guest on c-span's "newsmakers" is senator john cornyn. he is the head of the senate campaign committee and one of the questions mitt romney's running mate. >> whoever helps governor romney the most win the votes he needs to win i think that's certainly my focus but i like a lot of the names that have been mentioned. certainly rob portman from ohio is a very important state marco rubio from florida tim pawlenty who i think a lot of people have a lot of affection and high regard for. and i would add governor mcdonl

from virginia a very key state could be a help to the ticket. so i'm for whoever helps governor romney get elected president because that's what is going to be needed for us to change the direction of the country. >> our guest on "newsmakers" the head of the republican senatorial campaign and 2012 politics. from our facebook page many of you already with your points of view saying mark joining us from guam. we're hearing from republicans

only. caller: i was at the republican convention in guam back in march and i had the pleasure of meeting marley's son who came out here. he has to go with paul ryan and here's the reason. to be honest if you -- the popular vote is very close. but with the electoral college to be honest i think we've got a problem. and we put paul ryan on the ticket, it's to get out and vote. that's why we won so many seats two years ago. it's to get more voters out. if you put paul ryan on the ticket, you activate the tea party. they're going to be very, very activated and that's going to get more votes out for us and paul ryan is the guy. because the tea party it's economics, spending, tax cuts.

i really think paul ryan if we want to win. host: joining us from guam. and jim says paul ryan as well. bob mcdonnell was interviewed tover weekend here in washington, d.c. he was in richmond for redskins training camp so you'll notice that in the background but was asked about his running mate and his name which continues to come up as we heard from senator cornyn as a potential vp pick. >> what would you bring to the ticket? >> well i'm not going to talk

about that any more it's all speculation. governor romney is within probably a couple of days so i'm going to leave all of that up to him. i'll do whatever i can do to help him win. my biggest job is to help elect more republican governors around the country and to assist governor romney in winning virginia to get the greatest country back to work and out of debt and to craft a coherent energy policy. so i told him i will worning on that. whatever else, i'll let him comment on that. >> what are the chances in virginia? >> it's a dead heat. the president did a good job four years ago. he had an uplifting message. i think that the pt is a good family man, he's worked hard but a lot of the policies just haven't worked.

>> again we're asking to hear from republicans only who you think mitt romney should select as the republican running mate.

our phone lines are open. good morning. caller: i'm calling for arizona. host: go ahead. caller: can i speak my piece? i think mitt romney should choose ron paul as his running mate. i think they would make a good team. and ron paul has a lot of experience in politics. so i think they would match up greatly. host: thanks for the call. bill from arkansas. republicans only. who do you think he should choose? are caller: i've been thinking about it a lot and yonchings paul because primarily the age. not that he has not had experience. bob mcdonald is my pick and two things. one i think it would help in virginia. he vrs popular there. he has done a lot of things as a governor that has helped that

economy and not only that he is a military veteran. i like the fact that he has been in the military. neither obama nor romney nor biden have been in the military. and i like that. my second pick would be rubio. i like him also. i think either one of those would be good and romney would be benefited. host: next up is cal from tennessee. caller: good morning. and thank you for taking my call. historically speaking if you look at all those republicans who have been elected as president, they've always had a big state on their ticket. that's why marco rubio. if you look at george bush he was from texas that was a big state. you still like to have texas roots. go back as far as that goes. ronald reagan for example from california. so you're going to need somebody like that who can help

carry florida so he can get elected. host: thanks for the call. from our twitter page. politico out with its convention preview on one side is the republican nominee mitt romney what republicans need to do and how tampa won the republican convention. the other side is a look at the president and how the democrats are preparing for the convention in north carolina. available on line with politico. we are partnering with politico during the convention and their post convention program congress be seen and heard here on c-span television and radio. more scheduling information on our website. alex on the phone from phoenix. good morning. republican line. caller: good morning. i think governor walker should be the pick. host: why is that? caller: i think because he

survived the recall and therefore he would be the most energetic and also that would bring wisconsin's 10 or 11 electric torl votes on to the republican side. and on top of that governor walker would start a debate about whether there should be any government unions. host: thanks for the call. over the last couple of weeks we have been tracking some of the potential vp running mates as they've campaigned for mitt romney including in wisconsin congressman paul ryan who has been mentioned. weekly standard has him as one of their top two picks along with mario rubio. looking at mitt romney's trip to israel,. >> we see if we clear a pathway on in nation in debt despair and decline a future where our children have a lower living

standard severing that legacy of leaving the next generation better off. it doesn't have to be that way. all we have to do is take those great principles that built this country apply it to the problems of today and save america. that's what mitt romney is about. he understands what it takes to create jobs to grow businesses to get the economy growing. the man in the white house -- i rest my case. >> congressman paul ryan in wisconsin. a preview in the "washington post" of a new book called the 18 day running mate. mcgovern, eagleton and a campaign in crisis. the piece is called how not to pick a running mate. george mcgovern just turned 90 this past month pictured with the senator who was dropped from the ticket and replaced by sergeant sliver. going on to lose to richard nixon winning only massachusetts and the district

of columbia again the book titled the 18-day running mate. next is eugenea. caller: good morning. tilled pick condoleezza rice. and the reason is because i feel she is very knowledgeable. she has been in the white house for four years. she knows her stuff. she knows the foreign policy. and i feel that she has first-hand experience. so i think she should be the candidate. host: thanks for the call. you can weigh in. send us an e-mail and on our facebook page. many commenting on our question this morning.

we caught up with marco rubio late last month in las vegas, nevada. he spent high school years in nevada before graduateding and spending much of his adult life in florida. >> that's what selection is about. is a choice between two very dramatically different views of the roll of government in america. and by the way, the roll of america in the world. it's consequential it matters. that's what you're working for. and not just working to get rid of somebody. you're working to replace somebody with someone like mitt romney who understands what has made us prosperous in the past and understands what will make us prosperous in the future as well. host: on the campaign trail in

nevada. pamela on the phone, kentucky good morning. caller: i think it's the basic things we need in the vice president are honesty and common sense and an emphasis on fiscal policy. and so therefore if i could pick my dream candidate would be mitch daniels or squot walker deerks mint, and mcdonald in that order because of their criteria that i selected. host: you know that mitch daniels is going on to become president of purdue university. so essentially his conversation has been taken off the table. siveragetsdz so scott walker. host: ofpblgt caller: thank you. host: if you're tuning in or listening on c-span radio, our question from republicans only your pick for the vice presidential nominee. steve from missouri. gorge.

caller: good morning. honestly, i don't care who gets this and gets the presidency who does america good. or anybody else. host: dean naples florida good morning. caller: good morning and thanks for c-span. i am 92 years old and i belong to the republican club here in florida. and i would like to see marco rubio selected. i think he is smart and i think he is patriotic and honest and good. and i think he would help mitt romney get elected. host: thank you for calling. 92 years old. thank you for getting up early to be with us. caller: i feel that they should choose herman cain.

or michael steel. since they're trying to choose someone, michael steel is on tv with a good opinion of his. i'm a black person i feel they should have a black person on there. if they choose marco rubio they're simply choosing him because he is hispanic and want the hispanic vote. they had herman cain in the lead as the vice president and if they think that they can get some black votes why don't they choose michael steel or herman cain. st: thanks for the call. andy from san diego. good morning. caller: i like -- good morning. i like john mccain. he's easily the greatest man i've ever had the honor and privilege of voting for. he has tremendous foreign

policy experience. of course he wore the uniform. i think he would make a terrific -- in helping mitt romney with a job that really takes more than one person. host: ok. thanks for the call. linda from rapid city, south dakota. good morning. caller: good morning. my pick would be lieutenant colonel allen west. because we're going to be hitting a crisis soon. and i really feel that we need someone who be would be able to handle a crisis and i think that would be him. that's my pick. >> host: thanks for the call. and legislator rain on the phone from new york. good morning to you. caller: i agree with the gentleman that a couple of calls ago who said that he thought a black running mate would be good. i believe we need to get a person of color. we need to use obama's strategy

which is to appeal to groups of people he came out with same sex marriage agreing with that. i believe he did that to get the gay vote. the mandate of the catholic church which i thought he was shooting himself in the foot with. emblazend liberal women. i think we need to adopt his strategy and appeal to groups of people like i would like allen west or even a black woman. we just need to defeat this regime because i'm afraid what will happen to our country if we have four more years of this. host: thanks for the call. done richie a regular viewer and tweeter has this point of view.

this headline. >> a lot of people do point out that probably there was an egg and it became a chicken. >> but it wasn't a real egg so the chicken thing first? >> oh, my god. this you don't see every day. >> that's going to be used. >> i'm from ohio. >> when you are running together. >> senator rob portman. >> you are on fire. >> you want to hear the chicken

laying the egg? >> this is a man -- >> there dwro go. >> he's on my side. trr chicken comes first. >> and at one point in the past had been considered for vice president. >> from cnbc and you can catch that exchange also on the website as they took a look as the potential running mate. we'll leave it there. texas republicans only this morning go ahead. caller: thank you. i think it's a long shot but i do believe that i think he should pick dr. ron paul. and the reason is it would mitigate the youth vote is all out for ron paul. i'm a 28-year-old unemployed man. he's against the war on terror, the war on drugs. which is the hugest fiscal

concerns of our united states government. and i think it would be a wise choice, a courageous choice. it would -- he as doctor so you automatically have an ob/gyn to help dismantle the president's affordable health care act. host: thanks for the call. this on our twitter page. not really. we do this from time to time because we thought it would be i want resting to hear from republicans on who the g.o.p. registered voters think mitt romney should select. tomorrow our question will be focusing just on democrats. wing it is instructive and informative to hear what the other side is saying. tomorrow we'll have a chance for the republicans to hear what the democrats are thinking about. the front page of the boston globe is a look at the piece by

brian bender. caller: i recommend olympia

snow from maine the senator who just retired. she would bring a lot of democrats on board. she's a moderate. but more fiscally conservative. she knows how to get things done. she's -- they wouldn't work together but she would bring a lot of drabts on board. i know they love her up here. host: thanks for the call. front page of the houston chronical. joe on the phone from new mexico. good morning. caller: i think we need either condoleezza rice or marco rubio for vice president. host: why is that? caller: well, i think we can win with them to tell you the truth. host: ok. we'll go to karl next in

pennsylvania. good morning. caller: i've been thinking about this and i finally have some sort of a name marsha blackburn from tennessee. what we really need a moderate female that the democrats cannot attack unless they want to kill the women's vote and who has some knowledge of things going on and can sit into the vice president seat without attracting a lot of attention from the left. and i think someone along the mold of marsha who you listen to her she talks sense she's not overbearing she's not a radical attack dog or anything like that. so some female in our ranks that could qualify under those terms i think would p great. host: thanks for the call. our question this morning who do you think mitt romney should select as his running mate? one name also often mentioned

is the former minnesota governor and one time 2012 presidential candidate tim pawlenty. >> americans who are hurting and who are in need, need more than speeches. they need results. that's what we're trying to articulate or to represent to the people of the country that governor romney has a better way. that president obama's had his chance it didn't work and now we need somebody who is committed and knows how to get this economy moving again. host: that was tim pawlenty. going back to the editorial go for the gold. saying paul ryan and marco rubio. their two picks for mitt romney's running mate. next up is jeff on the phone from arkansas. good morning. caller: i think paul ryan would be the best vice president for

mitt romney. host: why is that? guest: because i think he's a good worker. host: thanks for the call. next up david, florida. good morning to you. caller: good morning. my recommendation would be ron paul for vice president. i say that a little treppedly because i'm not sure what benefit necessarily him as vice president would be but the question is this morning for vice president. but i think the -- he could reach out and bring a huge voting block to his side with all the ron paul supporters as you know the thousands and thousands of people that show up at these rallies needs something, some encouragement to move over to romney and if romney could reach out in some way and in this case be vice

president or possibly another capnet position. but i think he needs those and he needs ron paul supporters to be positive on his side. host: thanks for the call. jack heely has this story. on the floor of the senate we heard new attacked by harry reid against mitt romney and his taxes. politico writes.even if he lackn

ronnie's failure. that is from politico.com. on the phone, good morning. caller: i would like to recommend governor sarah palin. host: why is that? caller: she has the in-depth experience and she is a woman. host: thank you for the call.

an exclusive. how her husband became completely debilitated by a depression and explains the status of his recovery and when he might return to congress. about we're asking you who you think mitt romney should alleged as his running mate. some of you send in your e-mail.

host: "the washington post" has this editorial on mitt romney's tax returns. it is called "a hole in the balance sheets." host: wayne is on the phone. good morning. caller: i think mr. bush would bring energy to the campaign and help carry florida.

there is also a hispanic support connection there. it would certainly draw further needed contrast from the republican view. host: thank you for the call. from "the washington post."

host: jan it is on the phone from grand rapids, michigan. good morning. caller: i would like to recommend allen west. he is from florida. he is in the military. he is a black conservative. the tea party would support him. and i would love to see him in a debate with joe biden. host: thank you for the call. senator robert portman is one of those names often mentioned. he campaigned for mitt romney. once the nominee is selected, and irrelevant video related will also be posted at c- span.org. here is senator portman. [video clip]

>> barack obama promised to turn things around. we gave him the ball. he fumbled lowball. it is now time to give the ball to mitt romney. he can do it. our destiny can still be great. this country can be the american century. we need new leaders. host: center rob portman on the campaign trail. all of our video on our web site. holley is on the phone from alabama. you're on the air. go ahead. caller: i would like to add sarah palin. i think she would add to the ticket. host: why do you say that? caller: i like her. i think she will do what she says she will do. host: thank you.

you are on the air, robert. caller: i just want to say that i think rick santorum would be the best choice. host: ok. thank you for the call. by the way, it in "the washington post." host: this weekend on book tv, the history of louisville. american history tv features a special series at 5:00. here is a preview.

[video clip] >> the most historic a steamboat of the steamboat era. she is the oldest operating mississippi-style steamboat in the world. it was the beginning of an american revolution. it was the first time you could go down the river and bring cargo back. the steamboat was a developed. they literally took on cattle and barrels of whiskey. all kinds of goods and things. there would bring them back upstream. that was never possible before. the ohio river was a highway. the very best possible highway because you had automatic motion going down and then you had to fight your way back up the

river. there were maybe a few dirt roads around. there is nothing connecting one part of the country to the other. they would find where they could port. there would pick up the needed supplies and go to the next city. every city from pittsburgh down to new orleans was developed because of the steamboat. here,amboat's stopped that as a maid of louisville city. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome back marvin kalb. why the candidates are ignoring afghanistan.

there are still 80,000 troops there. guest: there are two problems there. of the candidates themselves do not choose to talk brought the problems there. there are not many american reporters there. the editors mind, afghanistan is a story that is fading from public consciousness. we appear to be so absorbed with the economy that we cannot focus on much beyond that. host: and yet, as you look it headlines from other newspapers, "the new york times" focusing on syria. some have drawn the line between the happen in syria and libya. guest: there is a connection, certainly as far as president obama is concerned.

when libya happened, there was a temptation for the 90's is to get involved. then the lessons of afghanistan and iraq came to play. we are too absorptive the economy. with still summit troops in afghanistan. let's not get involved. that was a sticky phrase. there were allies who were getting involved and they needed us. we provided that initial impetus, but then pulled back. host: you have traveled to how many countries around the world? guest: i lost track. host: you said this. the position of the two candidates have begun to overlap. guest: yes.

i believe that to be the case. it is an interesting issue, really. if you just listen to governor romney, do you get the impression that he is dramatically different from president obama? what we are reeling with -- what we are really dealing with is this. when a candidate for the pregnant -- for the presidency begins to run, he has to sound different from the person he is running against. they tried with the rhetoric to establish differences. but then and you begin to read what is their positions are on one issue after another, whether it is afghanistan, syria, china, you're going to find that the positions actually begin to move toward each other and then altman may overlap. one of the reasons for that -- ultimately overlap. one of the reasons for that, to

do something dramatically different, is simply not there. you end up, realistically, with a limited set of options. if you think about afghanistan right now, romney, several months ago, began to talk in dramatic terms about how if he were president, he would do this, that, and the other. right now, he has moved remarkably close to president obama's deadline of 2014 to get american troops out. the other nato forces at that time. what we are dealing with renounces rhetorical difference, but substantive overlap. host: listen to mitt romney in a moment. the other argument that democrats are saying, is what is the difference between the obama foreign policy and the bush foreign policy? guest: it is a very good question. the options for the united

states of america right now, given all of its problems, to do something new, a dramatic, and difference -- and different, happen to be very limited. we can talk a big, when it comes to doing something, we are stuck on that. whether you are president bush or president obama or can it romney, you end up drifting towards the middle. host: our guest is marvin kalb, the former host of nbc's's "meet the press." a graduate of harvard. in reno nevada, we would hear from the president, first. [video clip] >> i have been critical of the

--sident's decision to anyone disagreeing with his decision is arguing for endless war. but if it were up to more war and more attacks at home, it is a politically time to retreat. as president, michael will be to complete a successful transition by the end of 2014. i will evaluate conditions on the ground and solicit the advice of our military commanders. i will affirm that my duty is not to my political prospects, but to the security of the nation and the safety of our troops. host: what is he proposing? guest: well, when you listen to the governor, he is a remarkable way of saying a great deal in terms of the words to use. what is he really saying? he is the man who said, time and

time again, that he did not want to accept any deadlines. now, he is more or less accepting the 2014 deadline. he makes a large statement that he as president would listen to the military commanders. as if, by implication, president obama has totally ignored with his generals say. it is almost, at a certain point, silly. but it does in form to the needs of an american presidential campaign. he is trying to sound different from obama. but when you think about it, on afghanistan, imagine right now that romney were president. you have the 2014 deadline for getting out. what else would you be doing? what it is that the deficits is doing now is withdrawing from an extremely uncomfortable operation that would take many, many more years than the u.s.

right now has the appetite for. host: we saw the rise of the cold war. mitt romney has talked a lot about russia. how serious of a threat is that? what is the biggest threat? is it to russia? is it a third world country? where does this threat come from? guest: it is a terrific question. there was a time where, as a correspondent, i knew. i simply knew that i was in the middle of a great story. what the soviet union did would have a direct affect on my children, on all of america. so, i was interested in it. if you were. everybody was. if the cold war then ends. who, then, is our enemy? thus the united states require,

for political and economic reasons, to have out there some large enemy? without the soviet union, whom do we have is what you're asking a moment ago. we certainly have global terrorism as a threat. but is that a threat to the united states and to its system? maybe. but maybe not. but a soviet nuclear attack was a threat that was very clear. right now, one of our problems is that the threat is -- it is sort of out there. you know it, but it is not clear exactly what it is. that is one of our great problems right now. how much money do you need for defense? the pentagon argued, quite understandably, more and more and more. but they are cutting back and it is quite a realistic cut back. but, against whom are you going to be using all of these

weapons? there is no soviet union anymore. are you imagining that china is going to be the big threat to the nine states in, say, five or 10 years? there are some people argue that time is that kind of threat now. but china is still a great, bustling, exciting country. it does not feel like the soviet union. there is nothing in american history that preordains china as an enemy of the nine states. it just is not there. but we seem to be looking for some kind of an enemy out there to justify budgets and maybe something psychological. i am not sure i understand myself. host: our guest is marvin kalb. our lines are open. the number to call for our democrat line is 202-737-0001. the number to call for our republican line is 202-737-0002. the number to call for our independent line is 202-628-

0205. you can also send us an e-mail or join us on our facebook page. christopher saying it, you are right on. marvin kalb here with his signature red tide. you have how many red ties? guest: i love a red tide. -- red tie. caller: it is being said that there is very little difference , but i find a great difference in the fact that obama is more concerned with bringing other nations on line with us in our efforts to, let's say, police the world. i believe that is absolutely

necessary. we need a consensus in modern times with all the connections and communications. one other point to your guest, i agree with him. sometimes we manufacture problems. i believe it is in direct support of the military industrial complex. guest: if i said before there is no difference between bush and obama, i misspoke. i did not mean to suggest that. i meant to say on large issues there tends to be an overlap. between bush and obama there was an enormous difference. president bush went into iraq which i think president obama certainly would not have done. there are a lot of major things in terms of the whole attitude that president bush had about the utilization of american

military power to assert an america which simply had passed. but nevertheless, he tried. as far as iraq was concerned, my own judgment is that it should not have happened. but it did and we live with the consequences now. the idea that we're all beholden to a military industrial complex, i cannot buy that. i do not buy that because i think what drives and motivates the nine states rainout is not something as simple as a military industrial complex picking up the phone and saying, mr. president, this is what you have to do. right now there is this heavy overlap of economic concerns in this country which also has a direct affect on our capacity and foreign policy. are we able, for example, to do everything we wanted to do and

perhaps could have done, let us say, 20 years ago? the answer is, we cannot. that is one of the things we see in president obama's policy. if he would like to do certain things, but he is aware that you need allies. you cannot unilaterally do things as we did before. host: quite a good discussion on our twitter page. guest: there is something to that. in other words, to use the technology we have to accomplish the same and but at the same time continue with the withdrawal of american forces. if you can actually do that, good for you. i do not think that happens. i think the drone is a precision instrument to attack limited targets here and there, rather than overall. it is very different from having

a drone go out on an attack once a day or having 100,000 or 80,000 troops. host: an e-mail sent to was. one of romney's surrogates' made and -- guest: i think if you were just to go with the names that have been mentioned, i think there would be grounds for that kind of concern. but, again, my sense of the governor -- i have never met him, so i do not know from first-hand experience, but my sense is that he is a very intelligent man and a very pragmatic man. he is going to try to move towards the center rather than to live and to govern on the fringe. i think that is the concern --

while it is legitimate, i do not think it is the realistic outcome. host: also, the author of "hunting legacy." good morning, republican line. caller: good morning. i guess i would say that i would disagree with you on one issue in terms of the rhetoric. i think sometimes the rhetoric can be important in terms of perception of the united states, our goals, and our role in the world overseas. the one example -- well, many examples. mr. romney, i'm not sure what he will do if he gets elected. none of us really do. his stance or his worrying on russia, i think it was bought

on. he has taken a lot of grief for it. if you really analyze it, and you have incredible experience and a presence in this area that i certainly do not. if you look into the behavior of russia or the soviet union, it does not change remarkably. maybe it has scaled back slightly. with their position with syria or iran. they stand against us almost at every juncture where we tried to further freedom or democracy. we try to further when john kennedy talked about in his inaugural in 1961 where we will stand by any friend and against any enemy. i think that reagan was like that. i think president bush 41 was like that. i think president bush 43 was like that. i think president obama has, to

a large extent, as many democrats now, not democrats like john kennedy, certainly, have taken a position that the united states is one of many =. if we do not need to take a leadership role in the world. i think many republicans still see the eyes through the world -- still see the world through the eyes of john kennedy and ronald reagan. the world that has existed since world war ii will cease to exist. host: i will stop you there. guest: i think there are a couple of good points in there, but. there will always be a but. it seems you say that russia and the soviet union are more or less the same. forgive me, but there are profound differences. russia today is a country protecting its national interest as it sees them. the soviet union was the

fountainhead of a global communist movement. there is, in my judgment, a radical difference between the two. as far as the democrats sort of losing american oppose the leadership in the world, i think there, too, there is a difference. obama is trying to sit with his leadership is that america still leads -- trying to say with his leadership, america still leads, but it does not lead in a unilateral way. it does not say to the world, there is my way or no way. obama is saying, i will leave. the u.s. will lead, but i would love to have you come along with me. i believe in the world today that makes a great deal of sense. host: this saying that the

president has not listened to his generals. that is the difference between romney and the president on afghanistan. guest: that is a difference, certainly. there is no question that general patras' wanted a larger force in afghanistan. that is true. he wanted to keep them there through the next fighting season. that is absolutely true. there was the clear difference between the interests -- that clear difference between general petrus and obama. he knows and knew very well that you do not pick yourself up and simply dictate in afghanistan what is going to happen. the difference was that general pretorius felt that first you have to levy the nose of badly and then they would come on board and negotiate. obama was saying, bloody them as best as you can with the troops

that we have available, at the cost levels the u.s. can manage, but we cannot do it in the old way. i think, in that sense, although he is an extraordinary general, a very bright man, he and obama, another bright man, simply disagree on an issue. that does not mean you ignore the military is saying. you have a discussion. you're the president. you got elected to make a decision. he made that decision. host: and now he is the director of the cia. let's hear from the president as he talked about afghanistan. [video clip] >> i pledged to finish the job in afghanistan. we have to break the momentum of the taliban. working with our commanders, we came up with a new strategy.

we got the job done. this is still a tough fight. the banks and the sacrifices of our troops, we pushed the taliban back. we are training afghan forces. we have begun to transition. again, there are those who argue against the timeline for ending this war or talking about it publicly. but you know what? that is not a plan for america's security, either. after 10 years of war and given the progress we have made, i felt it was important that the american people and our men and women in uniform know our plan to end this war responsibly. host: the president from the convention. from "the washington post" this morning, that seems to be his line. guest: what is so terrific about that is if you go back to obama

in 2008 when he was running for the first time for president, one of the remarkable things that he said, also at a convention at the veterans of foreign wars, is that afghanistan was a war that we have to win. in other words, as a candid, as a democrat, as a liberal who never served in a military, he did not want to seem to be soft. he wanted to be tough. he said this is a war we have to win. when he was in office for one year, he began to change. and what you have now is the president saying, we are transitioning out. he does not talk about winning any longer. there is no such thing in his mind as a victory in afghanistan any longer. he shifted from the war we have to win, off to transitioning, which is a polite, diplomatic way of saying, where is the exit sign? i have to get out of this place.

host: andrew is on the phone. our conversation with marvin kalb. a long-time correspondent work -- for cbs news. caller: good morning. i agree with you talk about obama and romney basically being a the same. do you think it is immoral for a country to have 800 bases in 130 countries -- is it moral for us to spread democracy on other sovereign nations? guest: i do not believe we're trying to spread democracy on other nations. what the united states, i believe is trying to do, is protected own national interests. you can have a great argument about the best way of doing that, but in obama's mind right now, it is to scale back the war's that the u.s. finds itself

in. be very cautious. read here -- syria. about wars you might get involved in. you might try to bounce the foreign policy interest with the nation. i keep stressing that because there is now, in the american policy makers mind, a clear link between foreign policy and economics. you cannot escape it. we are not capable, any longer, of doing what it is we used to do so easily. host: from the front page of "the washington post."

guest: it is wonderful to get a story like that into the paper. it does indicate that the involvement might well have done a good thing. nevertheless, you are still -- if you were seeking george bush spoke about building democracy in the heart of the middle east. iraq, god knows, is not a democracy. it does not even have a vice president right now and there are people being locked up. the press being locked up. there are all kinds of things going on which are not good. the relationship with iran is another. however, that is a focus on the economic development of the

country. that is wonderful. let's hope it gets better. new haven, go to connecticut. marvin kalb in our studio. caller: good morning. how are you? i appreciate marvin kalb's commentary. i think he has a great intellect. marvin, you spoke of the president as a candidate and also as a president. as a president, he got us out of iraq and he captured bin laden. that is one point i would like to make. the second point i would like to make is that we can speak all we want of foreign policy as it

concerns mr. romney. but, you know, i just find at this point in time very difficult to accept anything that mr. romney -- any of mr. romney's statements in regard to foreign policy, domestic policy, or any other issue as far as that is concerned. he will not release his tax returns, which is a very simple matter. you have some information. the public in this country, the voting public, wants to know what his financial holdings are and what is the problem of not disclosing this information? host: thank you for the call. guest: i think there is a good point there. i suspect under one day, romney

under increasing pressure, will have to disclose more about what he paid in taxes. at the moment, to me, anyway, that is not the central issue. the central issue still is what would a governor romney turned president romney do? really do? specifically, point by point, about turning this economy around. that is the central issue that governs american policy here and abroad. host: an e-mail and i want to get your comments, too. guest: that is a wonderful couple of questions. if governor romney means what he says about iran, and sustains

the american relationship as he sees it with israel, then the possibility of conflict with iran definitely increases. there is no question about that, i think. but it is also true that president obama, if reelected, is going to face essentially the same problem. his view on iran and nuclear weapons is pretty much the same as the romney view -- it cannot happen. the u.s. will stop it from happening. ok. how do you stop it? you have tried negotiating. you have tried very hard on sanctions. if, six months from now, no matter who is president, none of these restrictions work and iran continues to build a bomb, how are you going to stop them, except with military force? as far as israel is concerned, the israelis hold the option of

moving against iran at any time. the americans know that. the administration has been trying very hard, and i think, to this point, successfully, off to, in as fact, move the israeli positions on iran very close together. they are so close together that there is a presumption that israel will not move without the u.s.. but at the end of the day, the problem with iran remains the same whether romney is president or obama. host: we are talking foreign policy in campaign 2012. our guest is marvin kalb. a comment on our twitter comment page. we went to war against terror, not against afghanistan or iraq. we're winning the war against terror. on the republican line, good morning. caller: if you look at a map of

iran and the military bases america has around iran, they are surrounded by military bases. but the government makes them to be the aggressor, but we are the aggressor. what i really want to ask you of thes nbc's use independent analyst in a lead up to the iraq war. he was on the board of a military contractor. he was receiving money from the military at the same time he was picked by nbc as being an independent analyst. i think we will continue to be applied -- to be lied into these wars. the industrial military complex is a huge contribution to politicians. they make money off of pushing wars. you do not hear any dissent from the mainstream media like brian williams. they are bought by these

politicians to lead them around. it is unbelievable. host: thank you for the call from chicago. guest: that is a point of view i've heard now, for many years. it is a sustaining point of view, by which i mean nothing more than it just keeps going on about the military-industrial complex. as i said a moment ago, i do not share the view that it is that determinant of a factor. i think it is much more complicated than that. as far as iran being surrounded, i think if you look at a map and go north, you'll find that iran has russia there. russia is not a military base against iran. they have a very close working relationship, as a matter of fact. the i rhenium issue is not a matter of bases here and there. -- the iranian issue is not a

matter of bases here and there. it is about the government building a nuclear weapon. that is before the world right now. not just before israel and the united states. host: you wrote on a website about mitt romney is suggesting to move his foreign-policy to the sensible center and under the president's leadership the world is an economic and military upheaval. can you explain? guest: sure. for any person in the white house to sit down and to examine the world and the set of problems facing the u.s., clearly, there are terrorism problems. there is a different kind -- a different kind of problem in china and russia. there are huge economic problems in western europe. what is it that i as president should do?

when you looked at home, what is it that if i wanted to do, i could do? because of the economic problems, that too is restricted. the capacity to lead in which people spoke very admiringly of reagan and kennedy, absolutely. that would be wonderful if the united states were again in the economic position that the u.s. was in with kennedy. remember, early on with reagan, the u.s. economic position was very bad. it began to move out to a better place. all of these things change. but to deal with these problems, for give me, in an overly simplistic way, is to miss the point. i think right now that we have a world that is so complicated with some money different, as i hope i said, economic and

military challenges that any president, romney or obama, will face incredible difficulties. incredible. host: kathleen made this point. president obama kept all of bush's generals. and no hope for change there. guest: it is a good point. the fact is that when obama took over, one of the things he tried to do from the very beginning, from january 20, 2009 to the very beginning, he understood that he had no military experience. none. and no real responsibility with the experience with the military. he wanted to deal with the military carefully. i think he did. there were any number of times that there were clashes. but he is the president. he has the right by the

constitution to make up his own mind. most of the time, i think right. but a couple of times, not. host: two other moments. mitt romney talking about china. mitt romney in reno nevada on july 24. [video clip] >> we face a rising challenge in china. it's too often disregards the rights of its people. it is selective in the freedoms it allows. as with its one-child policy, it can be ruthless in crushing the freedom it denies. it has fragrant copyright violations. it manipulates its currency to obtain an unfair advantage. it is in our mutual interest for china to be a partner of a stable and secure world.

we welcome its participation and trade, but the cheating must be brought to a stop. the president has not done it. we will. host: that is an example of trade issues being a part of foreign policy. guest: absolutely. it always has been with trade. romney was accenting a problem that obama has been trying to manage, but up to this point, and not successfully. the idea of stopping chinese teaching, which is the word romney and use, there is no question that the u.s. right now is faced with the rising china. with any number of problems having to do with currency, cyber warfare, problems in the south china sea, in the philippines, it is a very dangerous area. all of those problems exist.

the question with china is a much larger one. romney, i think at one point, referred to russia as the number 1 geopolitical enemy of the united states. foe, is what i think he said. my judgment is that china right now becomes not the foe or the enemy, but to the number one challenge facing the united states. in the 21st century, these today to complete -- competing giants will have to find a way of getting along. as i was saying before, there is nothing in the history of u.s. /china relations that would lead us inevitably to a confrontation, but it is a serious problem. it does have to be addressed no matter who is president. host: he goes on.

guest: i appreciate the line, obviously. thank you very much. but look. i was a journalist. now a writer and a scholar. these people are politicians. one of lucky or unlucky guy becomes president of the united states. he has to save the world in a totally different way. his responsibilities today are awesome. i really feel, every now and then, when i think about the problems and the intensity of the american political campaign, i ask myself, which guy in his right mind would want that job? the fact is, people still do. the job of president is still the number 1 job in the world in terms of security, economic opportunity, and the enormous promise of this country which still remains.

host: one of the themes of the many tweets we have been getting is from michelle. is this a sensible middle? guest: no. if that was all it is, it is not a sensible middle. when i was trying to suggest an article on the brookings website is that romney is moving toward the sensible middle. when you imagine what it is or remember what it is that romney was saying during the republican primary season, and what he is saying right now as he moves in a couple of weeks with being formally anointed as the republican candidates, there is a big difference. he has moved a long ways. i think he will continue to move toward the center because that is the only sensible place to be. if you need the right, the left,

and the middle to accomplish something significant. the next president of the u.s. will have to do that. host: good morning to you. you're on the line with marvin kalb. caller: my question with the sensibility of any of these politicians, it would a clear -- it would appear that the obama administration is supporting the muslim brotherhood in different areas. we have his administration pushing for military action in syria. there are all kinds of ridiculous and dishonest actions in libya. u.s. interests are not served. i will let you comment. this whole iran cannot have a bomb, why is iran the only country that cannot have a bomb? there are plenty of countries with a bomb.

it deters or in many instances. i think that is really a bad premise to go from. it is most probably the influence of the israeli lobby and money in american politics. guest: well, he raises two points here. one, basically about the middle east and the new arab spring. the large issue is what can the u.s. do for its own interests and at the same time have a tendency and growth? it is a very hard thing to do. the american policy has been to do different things depending on the needs of the different country. for example, you try to strike a deal with the muslim brotherhood in egypt.

they are in charge in egypt. there is the military, but they are in charge. in syria, it is such a mess and so dangerous. we do not know exactly who the rebels are. to give them lethal weapons right now, for the u.s. to move troops into syria right now, would in my judgment, be a horrible blunder. the president is not doing that. host: senator barack obama said he would identify it jerusalem as the capital. mitt romney was in jerusalem saying that jerusalem is the capital of israel. guest: any number of candidates have spoken about the need for

the nine states to recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel. israel recognizes jerusalem as the capital of israel. i suspect that a good chunk will remain the capital of israel. the question is, how you divide jerusalem so that the palestinians can point -- can claim part of it as its capital? that is something for the future. often a presidential candidates makes the position that the jerusalem is the capital. we do not know that. once you are president, you realize that america's interests in the middle east are not just with israel, but with the arab world as well. how do you reconcile the interests with the arab world? that has been a problem for every president as far back as i

can remember. the person who raised the question from new york about iran being just a function of israel -- it simply is not. even if you assume this is a political question and romney was seeking to increase the number of of votes he had in november, that is less than the number of evangelical votes that he might have in november. the evangelical component is extremely supportive of the israel position. again, it is much more complicated than many of us think. host: more from the convention. by the way, all of the speeches in our library at c-span.org. here is the president. [video clip] >> four years ago, i may

promise. i pledged to take the fight to our enemies. as president, that is what i have done. as you reflect -- [applause] as you reflect on recent years, as we look ahead to the challenges we face as a nation and the leadership that is required, you do not just have my words. you have my deeds. you have my track record. the of the promises i made and the promises that i have kept. i pledged to end the war in iran -- in direct honorably. -- in iraq honorably. host: democrat line. caller: good morning.

it is a pleasure to talk to marvin. i have seen him for so many years with wofford cronkite and all of them. i am one of these people who i believe in obama. i believe in what he said the first time. he has backed off of so many things that i think he should have stayed on. he completely backed off of everything. i have never seen any person back off of so much. i just cannot see any reason for him doing it. now he is coming along and he is going to let these tax hikes go through for the wealthy people in the country. i always believe they should pay their share. host: are you going to vote for the president? will you vote for mitt romney? are you going to sit out this election? what are your plans for november? caller: i really do not know. i wish i did know. i hope maybe marvin can tell me.

i have heard you talk before. i honestly do not know. i really and truly wish you could tell me why. who do you believe in? who'd you believe it anymore? in 85 years old. i cannot believe anything. guest: i would hope very much that you can continue to believe in american democracy because it does function. is may not function as well as you like, but it does function. it does, believe it or not, said a model for countries all over the world. there is a great battle, not just for the soul of people, but for their awareness of self. you are trying to ask a question, who do you believe in? you have to believe in your own capacity to understand what is going on. to watch programs such as this. to read pars, to read books. to keep involved.

because you have a glorious benefit of being able to vote in a free society. that is still the most fundamental right we have. host: one of our viewers self- described as a supertone. let's go to rose who is our last caller in memphis tams is -- in memphis, tennessee. caller: good morning, marvin. i have been listening to you as somebody i once admired. now i am thinking, what happened to marvin kalb? we know obama has how much experience in his background. he has said zero. number one. none at all. we do know that romney was a

governor of a state and had to interact with other countries. in listening to you and i cannot help but wonder if you're not one of the ones who believe in the one world order and have the u.n. dictate policy that we should have. host:: 3 with a list of fifth fleet's with the full faith off with three shifts -- we will get a response. guest: obama is trying very hard. to put it in one way or the other is not to do a service to the country at this point.

we need people and we need leaders who will recognize the complexity, try to strike a compromise down the middle with what works on both sides of the political aisle and then move forward. it will not be that easy. we need as much support from as many people in this country as possible. host: the 2000 campaign focused on how to spend the surplus bill clinton was leaving for the next president. nine/11th changed everything. is there a lesson -- 9/11 changed everything. is there a lesson in that reform policy? guest: the central issue in 2000 was, what kind of world we face now the cold war is over and the soviet union no longer exists?

what are we going to face and how will we face it? today our problem is, how do you face global terrorism? they are two different things. they will require two different approaches. we did not know how to handle it in 2000. unfortunately at this point, we do not quite know how to handle it in 2012. those are the two large issues. host: marvin kalb, a senior scholar on foreign policy at brookings in washington, thank you for being with us. coming up in a couple of minutes on "washington journal," we will turn our attention to the looming shortage of doctors and what it means. later, a look at factories and trade schools.

are there enough workers to fill the positions? a look at the other sunday morning shows, including "meet the press" that marvin kalb used to host many years ago. nancy, good morning. >> "meet the press" is pre- empted today due to nbc coverage of the olympics. it returns next sunday, august 12. at 1:00 on c-span replay, here is a replay of "this week." on fox news sunday, chris wallace welcomes the obama campaign senior strategist and the republican senate candidate of texas.

candy crowley posts robert gibbs, republican senator lindsey graham, and the founder of black entertainment television, bob johnson. bob schieffer talks with the virginia republican governor, former governors, and ted strickland of ohio. the sending network talk shows reairing on c-span and radio are brought to you as a public service by networks and c-span. reairs begin today at 1:00 with "this week. co-- "this week." you can listen to them all on c- span radio, and nationwide on xm satellite. you can listen on your blackberry, download the c-span

app, or listen online. >> later today, we will take your phone calls, e-mails, and tweets for three hours beginning at noon eastern. >> i tried to look at this from the larger perspective and how we got here today. what were the main causes? are there any trends that run through our relationship? the ultimate goal was to write an objective account of what transpired on both sides. >> david crist on 30 years of hostility between the u.s. and iran tonight at 9:00. "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome dr. atul grover as we focus on the new health care law and its

implications. one factor is the shortage of doctors now in the future. -- now and in the future. what are we looking out over the next 15 years? guest: looking any shortage of close to 90,000 physicians. going into 2025, closer to a shortage of 30,000 physicians. that is if nothing is done now to increase training. host: you can see the darker indications were they have a higher ratio of doctors. in the south, midwest, and more rural areas, the shortage is more acute. guest: that is true. one challenge is not just in the total supply of physicians, but how to get them distributed in the places they're needed the most. those clear ratios of physicians per capita do not always capture the needs of the population. south and southwest, you can see

the population is older, has more chronic conditions, has more need for positions. physicians. -- has more need for physicians. host: 1 issue is in malpractice insurance doctors have to pay. many doctors do not want to take medicaid and medicare patients because they are not reimbursed the way they feel they should be. are those factors in why people are not becoming doctors? guest: we have not seen a drop- off in applications to medical school. those numbers continue to go up. there is still a country of bright young people that want to help others. -- there is still a cadre of bright young people that want to help others. i think the issue of access is more challenging when you have public programs that do not always pay for even the cost of

taking care patients. that is an issue for medicare and fisheries. is becoming more of a prominent issue. around medicaid, that has been a huge issue. our institutions, teaching hospitals, and faculty continue to see medicaid patients. that is part of what they do. they are about 6% of all hospitals. they are safety net institutions. we will see them, but it is becoming an issue around the country. host: congress has had a freeze on medicare-supported training for doctors. explain. guest: tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the balanced budget act of 1997 where congress froze the amount of support it would give toward treating physicians at 19 -- toward training physicians at 1996 levels.

we have been essentially saying we will not pay anything past were you doing in 1996. that has slowed down the training of physicians. it is the main thing that needs to be addressed. this week, we have bipartisan legislation introduced in the house -- we had bipartisan legislation introduced in the house that would lift the cap and freeze on the number of training physicians that would be funded. host: there will be an increase of about 7%. you are saying that is not enough. what level should it be? guest: at a minimum, you are talking about needing to train 4000 extra doctors a year. we are looking at a shortage of about 90,000 physicians by the end of the decade. if we train another 4000 year, we would get to about 1/3 or more of meeting that shortage. the first thing is to train more

physicians. would you do about the shortage question mark that is where we need to figure out how to do more innovative things around the delivery system, figure out how to integrate ^ better, do better prevention and primary care. all of that becomes important. you have to do both. host: if you are a doctor or studying to be a doctor, we want to hear from you. the phone lines are open. we are dividing our phone lines in the time zones. our focus is on the looming shortage of doctors in this country. as the health care law affected this? guest: it has. we were looking at a shortage that was significant even before the aca passed. that is due to the changing demographics. demographics change per capita

needs. 10,000 people a year -- a day for the next 19 years are going to turn 65. that is what is driving the bulk of the shortage. host: say that number again. guest: in thousand people a day for the next 19 years are turning 65 and injuring the medicare ranks. that is a huge shift for the united states. it is a doubling of the population over 65. -- 9000 people -- 10,000 people a day for the next 19 years of turning 65. they have higher numbers of chronic illnesses, hypertension, diabetes, heart disease. we are in some ways a victim of our own success. we have done a better job of treating these things and turning fatal illnesses into chronic diseases. people are going into their 60's and 70's that have five or six chronic diseases better still active and contributing members of society.

that demographic change is what is driving the shortages. i do not think we realize how successful we have been. the aca accelerates that shortage because it takes people that would not have had health insurance and puts them on to the ranks of the insured. host: this is pointing out if you have a lot of loans from undergraduate school, it is not financially feasible to take on medical loans. guest: it is possible. it is daunting. students come out with an average of $160,000 in debt. we're lucky that many bright people want to go to medical school. there are subsidized loan programs available. congress last year got rid of it subsidized professional and

graduate student loans. they are more expensive to pay off. even if you are looking at an educational debt level of $160,000 a year, we're trying to get the numbers down. you still will have the ability to pay off those loans if you are a physician. that has not changed. there is still an excellent return on investment. it is a rewarding career. if you think you love medicine, it is absolutely worthwhile going into despite the debt. host: why would you go into a more rural area to get lower pay? guest: that is not always clear- cut. in some cases, working in a small committee, you may earn more. it varies. the bigger challenge is getting other professionals to practice in remote locations are the non-

economic factors. the big thing that helps a lot is programs like the national health service corps where you can get a loan repayment for going to rule areas -- world -- rural or underserved communities. people interested ought to look at the national health service corps. host: what type of doctor are you? caller: preventive medicine. one of the major challenges we still have is the liability crisis. it is going to be difficult to attract young people through the profession -- to the profession. guest: liability is certainly an issue. there are varying degrees of how much money you save you enacted serious toward reform. the caps are probably less

important in terms of how it affects people's behavior. if you are a physician, it is not so much how much you get sued for. you do not want to get sick. many physicians are trying to do the right thing for the patient that confronted them. we need to do something about the malpractice environment because it does create a lot of strange incentives to do things that are more aggressive than if we could sit down and explain the pros and cons of various options. i agree something has to be done. the extent of savings is still debatable. host: our guest is dr. atul grover with the association of american medical corps. 60% of doctors believe the health care act will have a negative impact on patient care.

guest: i am not familiar with that exact survey. you have to look at the sple range of people you talk to. in our institutions, teaching hospitals, medical schools, faculty, one of the drivers in supporting the aca is we do 40% of charity care and 20% -- 28% of medicaid. you have to do something to address the lack of access to health care. once people understand the provisions in the law that expand insurance to millions of people, that part they support. i think there are provisions in the health care law that people do not understand or agree with. there were no other options to insure 30 million people. that has made the biggest impression on our folks. host: students are going into specialized medicine. it takes less time and often

less money with larger salaries. is that true? guest: all of it except the time -- except for taking less time. specialized training takes longer. if i chose to do cardiology, i would have to do additional training. in many cases, compensation is higher. it has more to do with the way we reimburse procedural work versus the way we reimburse cognitive work. if i sit down and talk with you in the office about your health problems and how to manage them, i might not get paid as much as someone putting in a stent. those differences are real. we need to find a way to make sure people can get reimbursed in a way that makes sense for talking with patients and doing diagnostic work. that is a challenge. one of the real challenges is how to do that in a system where

you cannot necessarily add more money. host: what is your story? why did you decide to become a doctor? what was your loan rate like? what was the experience like? guest: came from a family engaged in health care. my father was an epidemiologist. i commend it -- i came at it from that exposure. i loved science. that was reinforced in college. i decided to get a degree in writing, i was an english major. i thought i would wind up trading, teaching, doing research, and seen patients. i went to medical school in washington, d.c., during the last discussion of health care reform. that made a big impression on me. by the time i got them with medical school, i decided to do primary-care. i went to california and realized i wanted to federal

policy. that is hard to do from california. i came out here. i was lucky. i had a national health service scholarship. i was able to do teaching and worked for the government doing workforce analysis. i have been doing this a long time. i have not seen a patient in a couple of years. i miss it. it is hard to do all things at all times. medicine is a very rewarding career. host: when you do write the prescriptions, as an english major, are they more legible? guest: removing towards more electronic prescriptions. host: antonio, texas, this morning. -- san antonio, texas, good morning. caller: we need additional providers. i am speaking about nurse practitioners. in san antonio, we have a

waiting list of three months to a year for people to see a psychiatrist when you have many trained nurse practitioners with near expertise levels in the psychiatric ground. in texas, we cannot see patients without having a collaborating physician. that means it takes dollars out of the doctor's pocket. they do not want to supervisors. people go without care. we do provide a valuable service because we take the time to talk and explain medications and disease management. we get very little compensation. most of us have to work in a physician's office under a physician and are not allowed to practice independently.

we are valuable assets that can help with the looming number of patients that will go under serb -- under-served. guest: i think you are right. nurse practitioners can help house can social workers. we need to figure out how to get all of the members of the team working in a way that is most effective for the patient. that is going to be a challenge. there are a number of challenges from reimbursement to the culture of medicine. there are also the vagaries of different state laws. the bottom line is we're going to need everybody. it will need to be herall hands on deck. it will be too many older people to take care of without increasing training. host: will the use of physicians' assistants correct the problem? guest: i do not think it will correct the problem.

it does ameliorate its somewhat. all the other health professionals need to contribute to seeing patients and making the team more effective. the problem is we do not have thatands of other p.a.'s we can pull off of a shelf the same way you cannot pull freeze dried doctors off a shelf. we need to increase the caps to train physicians. host: 20 said rewarding, you met the satisfaction of dealing with -- when you said rewarding, you meant the satisfaction of dealing with patients. doctors get paid at least twice as much in the u.s. as the rest of the industrialized world and much more if they are specialists. it is bankrupting our country. guest: there is a lot of literature looking at the ratio of income of physicians compared

to other professionals compared by nation. we are a unique nation in many ways, not just the way we pay physicians. our unit price for labor tends to be very different. the most clear-cut comparison in terms of how you look at what one country does versus another in health care is looking at utilization rates. when it comes down to utilization, we are not that different from other industrialized nations. there is a clear difference in new -- remunerations of physicians. it tends to be higher. there are different things in other areas besides health care. it is hard to isolated down to just a problem in the room liberation -- remuneration of clinicians. host: erica is on the phone from san diego with dr. atul grover.

caller: i am on medicare. all i ever hear is how many people get on medicare. how many people die every day or every year? guest: that is a good question. i do not have exact numbers on how many people die every day. i can tell you the number of people coming into medicare is vastly greater than the number dying who receive medicare every day. that is why you are looking at a doubling of the number of people who are eligible for it. host: lisa is on the telephone. she is a doctor from portland, ore. what is your story and specialty? ller: i was a virologist in practice. my call is along the lines of my son who is beginning a premed

program. he is going into an m.d./ph.d. program because he is more research-oriented. i wonder if you are seeing shortages in those who are more oriented towards its work -- benchwork or research work. because of issues he has had with chronic health problems, which he was able to address finally through diet and nutrition and not in a quack sense but by revamping his diet and addressing physical work.

guest: the physician-scientist pipeline is an important one. if you think about where discoveries are made, our schools have a unique partnership with the government, particularly the national institutes of health and also the cdc. we are concerned if we do not continually refreshed that pipeline and also physicians that choose to do research, we're going to lose the international competitive edge. we're going to take steps backward in discovery. one of the challenges right now which is more pressing is the limits on the federal budget for the support of nih. that has been a real challenge. the success rate for investigators now is below 20%. that is the lowest it has ever been. until we can fund research in

this country, i think it will be a challenge to keep people in that pipeline. host: david is a physician from lafayette, louisiana. caller: i was wondering if you have any comments about physician burnouts syndrome with physicians leaving practice early and lawsuit issues. i think you will see, they talk about a number of agents that will be hired in the federal government to pursue different -- what they refer to as problems with over-charging or dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's. as a physician, i have seen

organizations come into a critique every last thing you do. they have draconian regulations imposed. i think this will lead to burnout becomes a -- because it becomes a pain to practice. regulatory guest: -- guest: regulatory issues are always a problem. the larger piece of your question around physician burnout is interesting. we see that in particular specialties where folks are working long hours. they are doing highly intensive work or lots of things that prevent them from finding work life balance. we see that in emergency care physician. it has been an issue in primary care because of the long hours and paperwork. looking at the new physicians coming out of medical school mnow, they are looking for a

very different work-life balance. this has to do with the changing demographics between women and men. we're now producing about 50% women out of medical school. you have a lot more two- physician couples. they are choosing to work fewer hours, not just the women. the men as well. they are seeking a better balance in their lifestyle to avoid burnout. it is something we have to track over time. i do not think aca will make it better or worse, but it is an ongoing problem. host: does the medical association have a cap? guest: the medical schools that grant an m.d. are accredited by

an institution. you saw almost no growth in the number of medical students. we were flat at 16,000. that has to do with a lot of things. one was the belief we would have plenty of physicians. you saw that again during the clinton era health care reform discussions when we thought managed care was going to rule the world. it would be tightly managed. people would love their gatekeepers. that never happened. that was the predominant reason for medical schools not expanding them. in 2006, our organization made a call to our medical schools and states around the nation and said we have to increase the number of training physicians if we're going to deal with the burgeoning population and their needs. since 2003, -- 2002, we have almost expanded enrollment by 30%. there are no caps. the limits are money and you want to make sure those coming out of medical school have somewhere to train.

host: are talking about a looming shortage of medical doctors in the next 15 years. it is estimated to be as many as 90,000 by our guest, dr. atul grover with the association of american medical colleges. mindy is on the phone. caller: i am enjoying the conversation. my understanding is the aca fully implements in 2014. i was observing the blue areas in the northeast that have a lot of doctors and other areas have fewer. one thing the aca will do is allow the older doctors to retire. the number doctors or those coming out of medical school will be assigned to other areas of the country.

you can practice medicine, you have to go here instead of there. you can practice, but only if you go there and practice. that would be whether it is practitioners or research. they will also state how much you are allowed to be reimbursed by the government. that is house--- socialized, one-size-fits-all medicine works. guest: it did find higher levels for the national health corp. there are greater opportunities for loan repayment if people choose to go to those areas. there is no dictation and around reimbursement in the private sector. i do not think any of the geographic now-distribution --

mal-distribution will be worsened by the aca. host: the suggestion is to expand the number of nurse practitioners. beyond that, look at the veterans administration model and the mayo clinic models to treat them. my husband is a veteran who had a heart attack and stroke this year. his treatment team works together. they save money. guest: our medical schools do have great terrific models. it is harder to do in the real world settings because of limitations we have talked about. i do think there are provisions that incentivize primary care. one is the 10% bonus in shortage areas. the other is paying primary care physicians at medicare floors.

two years. what we do after that is going to be a challenge. we do need to have the other providers. when we have looked at how many patients each doctor can take on and look at places with closed models where they can control the panel size and mix of professionals, we do not find dramatic increases in the number of patients each doctor can take on. we find they are doing more of the recommended screening and regular follow-up. that is being done by assistants and others. unfortunately, there is no silver bullet to reduce the need for physicians. host: organization did a survey of those enrolling in medical school. you point out that about 1/3 of doctors currently in practice will retire over the next 10 years.

>> that has been a challenge. because we have chosen -- frozen the number of trainees, we're looking at a physician population of looks like our patient population. they are older and getting ready to retire. there is no one to replace them. that is the challenge. you have an older population and an older population of physicians. you have a freeze on the number of doctors we have been able to train for 15 years. host: thank you for waiting. go ahead. caller: this is jim. i have several physicians in our expanded family. i became a citizen of the united states in 1962. i experienced both sides of the

debate in washington. what is the doctor's opinion about single payer systems? guest: a single payer system is something, the debate has been had in this country. people are largely opposed to it. it came up during the aca discussions and did not go anywhere. it works in some nations. this nation has such a patchwork of payers and the states, politically, it will not fly. host: we welcome our listeners on c-span radio. we're talking about a shortage of physicians in the next 10 years. mark is a physician joining us from kingston, rhode island. caller: i am calling because my

sister is having anxiety over the bill. i am starting out. i am a licensed clinical psychologist. myself and my colleagues have concerns with regards to reimbursement rates as related to medicare, medicaid, the government to exchange, so on, and so forth. i should point out i do not take those because if i did, my practice would go under. over the next 10 years, it has been said many times the current administration wants to phase out employer-based coverage. my concern is, how would that affect the private practitioner over the next decade if and

personal -- if commercial insurance becomes less and less? guest: have not heard the administration say they want to get rid of employer-based coverage. there are various numbers of employers dumping their own coverage and putting employees on an exchange. the concern about reimbursement rates compared to private payer levels is legitimate. our institutions do a lot of medicaid, medicare, and uncompensated. they are able to cross- subsidize. that becomes very difficult to do for a small private practitioner. if you are working largely off of medicaid rates in most states, there is no way your practice can function. i think you bring up the larger issue, particularly in your field of mental health, about

reimbursement. we have not have the level of parity for reimbursement in mental health. that has to be addressed. we can see evidence every day we need a stronger mental health system. host: a follow-up on two points you brought up earlier. phil in michigan says, what about creating financial incentives for demographics? guest: he is referring to the theory of supply induced demand. if you train more doctors, they will find a way to fill up their schedule. this has been debated and looked at in the literature. analysis shows less than 2% of the actual utilization of health care is supplier-induced. i think a lot of that is not intentional. we do not have a great day that

-- data yet on how often we should see you back in a practice. in the aca, we have the research institute. that is the kind of data we hope to get to figure out if i am seeing the patient enough, too little, or too much. people do not realize we train about 13,000 doctors a year. over half of the doctors are training in internal medicine, family medicine, or pediatrics. we're only training 500 oncologists a year. it is not as if there are lots of other specialists we could take away from to have them do more generalist work. host: jan has this question. are the insurance companies influencing care? guest: the closed model hmo's

will be very different from what most of us experience with employer-sponsored health care. the problem in the payment system is relying on fee-for- service and some of the vagaries of payment for procedural work versus conative work. that is amplified by private payers. the private payers will say i will pay you one had a 10% of what medicaid is paying. we are seeing some of the larger private payers team up with states and practices, doing things around reimbursement of medical home care. we're trying to change it. it takes time. that is the other point i want to raise. we can find ways in the long run to improve our efficiency and change the delivery system, but we will not do that overnight. it would be irresponsible not to address the physician sorted --

position shortage now while we're trying to work that out. host: haleel is joining us from pakistan. he is a physician watching us on the web. good morning to you. caller: hello? host: we can hear you. thank you for phoning in. caller: my name is dr. haleel. i am 60 miles south of karachi. i just saw the program where dr. atul says the shortage of doctors in the u.s. i am asking about what is your policy to import doctors from foreign countries and give them

incentives to serve in e under-served areas? is there any policy about that? i have half of family living in the u.s. i have my older brother. i want to ask if there is any policy to import doctors from foreign countries. guest: there are opportunities for foreign-trained physicians to come to the united states. they have to the residency training here. about 1/4 of the physicians in the united states have gotten their medical diploma's abroad, have come here and trained. in many cases, they are required to go back to their country of origin. there are programs if they come in on a j-1 visa to have that

waived if they will serve in an under-served areas. with expanded enrollment, we expect in four years we will have more people enrolled domestically in medical school than we have first year of residency training for. our recommendation would be to expand residency training by 15%. that will allow for a few thousand internationally- educated physicians to come into the system each year. about half of the international graduates who come here to train our u.s. citizens or permanent residents there were not able to or chose not to go to medical school in the u.s. we want to make sure we have at least a few thousand spots for them to come back in for training.

host: new jersey, you are on the "washington journal." caller: you talk about the costs of getting a medical degree. one thing we see it as complaints from students is it takes longer to get the medical degree program compared to other professional degrees. it takes much shorter in other countries compared to the u.s. some integrated programs have been introduced. it still takes eight years to get a medical degree program. is there something to make it more consolidated to attract better students? guest: in the short term, we have been trying to integrate some programs. for some specialties like thoracic surgery, you have to train five years in general surgery, did a couple of years in that, and a fellowship after that. we now have an integrated program that is six years instead of eight or 10 years.

the american college of surgeons, a health policy research institute looks at this closely. there will be a decrease in the total number of surgeons over the next 10 years if we do not do something to change the residency taps -- caps. that is an important issue. we're trying to move away from sitting in medical school for four years, and then sitting in residency training for three years. we want to address how we assess competencies'. that will take time. i am confident that there are ways we can make this more flexible for the learner. host: we got this tweet asking how big a problem medical malpractice is. guest: there are differing estimates on the magnitude and

influence on physician behavior. it is something we have to address. there are a number of ways to do it. i can tell you every physician does not want to get sued. every physician is trying to do the right thing for the patient in front of them. anything we can do to help them focus on that rather than the fear of getting sued will be helpful. host: dr. atul grover, thank you for being with us. coming up in a couple of minutes, we will turn our attention to trade schools. we will be joined by sandra krebsbach with the american technical education association. that is coming up in a couple of minutes. first, back to c-span radio and a look at the sunday shows. the guests and topics you can hear every afternoon on c-span radio. good morning. >> reairs begin at 1:00 eastern time. "meet the press"is pre-empted by

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philadelphia followed by live coverage of the republican convention in tampa and the democratic national convention live from north carolina starting monday, september 3. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us from minneapolis is the executive director of the american technical education association, sandra krebsbach. thank you for being with us. i want to begin with the front page of the "new york times" that goes to the issue we're talking about. it is focusing on the evolution of with nissan from the mid- 1990s until today. let me read you a portion. companies like apple, dell,

hewlett packard rely on a huge asian factories and assert many types of manufacturing would be too costly and inefficient in america. the migration of japanese auto manufacturing in the united states over the last 30 years, the united states remains one of the top auto manufacturers and employers in the world. can you elaborate on that? guest: i can. i did not have a chance to read the "new york times" this morning. i think the untold story is the auto manufacturing industry that has come to us. tennessee is a good example of a state that has dedicated resources to technology. we have 27 technology centers in tennessee. nissan is locating there. they have the volkswagen plant

in chattanooga. also, in indiana. i am not sure where all the plants are located. there is subaru and honda. toyota has a plant there as well. the american workforce is is capable of high-tech precision machining and manufacturing jobs. i did forward a picture of the volkswagen plant in chattanooga. if you took a look at the floor, it would be hard to tell exactly what you are looking at. it is a very precision area, clean, a wonderful environment to work in. the training that goes into working in those technical programs is really computer- based. one of the biggest challenges we have with technical education is

for high school students of all ranges of talent to think about going into those areas. i am so glad the new york times covered it. i think it is one of the good news stories. there certainly is the same level of expertise in the american auto industry. there is a complementary story of investment in the united states by japanese and german manufacturers. good news. host: i want to take your 0.1 step further and illustrate this through charts for manufacturing and supply chain. you can see a steady increase with volkswagen, nissan, mitsubishi, and other companies that have relied on american companies to provide parts and materials. you can see the influx of plants and jobs, particularly in the

midwest and south. states like alabama and georgia, traditionally not associated with car manufacturing. guest: you can be sure those companies would not be locating here if the whole system was not in place. that would be the supply chain. the high technology that emerges from the auto industry that feeds it in is generated by it is generating high quality jobs in that region. st. louis lost a chrysler plant. they do have a federal grant replacing those jobs in the health care sector. an untold story is what is happening in the south. that includes georgia and alabama, as you pointed out. caterpillar is locating a plant outside of atlanta. a german company outside of atlanta is expanding. airbus has gone into alabama. being from minnesota and the

north, we thought we were the area with the high tech. clearly, the south is producing high-quality jobs and attracting foreign investment. host: sandra krebsbach, the other reason we wanted to have you come on is to talk about whether we have enough individuals to fill these positions and are we training them for the types of jobs we have in the 21st century? guest: having the individuals continues to be a challenge, recruiting. a couple of reasons. high-school students are not necessarily exposed to this area of work. there are 400 different occupations trained in technical schools from hospitality to computer networking, etc. we would appreciate the cooperation of high schools in terms of exposing students to

this range of training and jobs for them. part of the recruiting challenge in the two-year level, there are about two dozen institutions for that in 3-d 2000 institutions for that in this country. it is a challenge to get the message out and marketing in place to let high school students know and those looking for training age 20 and beyond, to come to a technical college or find a technical program. as a nation, we need to get more investment in that area. the incumbent worker is important because they can learn an additional set of skills. we have programs at the federal and state level in terms of bringing unemployed into training programs. the united states has the talent

for this. technical colleges have the capacity. one thing i would like to talk about his capacity because a technical program requires the same type of expertise, equipment as industries. it is not something you can just throw a light switch on in a room and fellow students and an instructor. you have to have the instructor train on that particular industry sector. you have to have equipment relating to what the industry is using. you have to have supplies and handling capacity, if you are going to add evening classes. sometimes in particular -- sometimes there is a program in the morning and evening. it can be challenged depending on the program. we are up to it. members of the american

technical education association responded with what they're doing. some are adding the night shifts -- midnight shifts in tennessee. it is over at 5:30 in the morning. it shows you how hard the students' work and the technical area. some are going to 24 hours. some have added to the people per class. we are definitely responding. -- some have added two people per class. we're definitely responding. high level precision machining has never gone away. it is to the credit of technical colleges and industry that have repeatedly said we need these workers and programs. they supply equipment and internships. that capacity is still there. we have been riding it out through the end of 2010 and are in a position to respond. i think it is good news.

it is a good problem. we can solve it. host: if you are attending one of those technical schools or are a recent graduate or an administrator, we have a line set aside for you. lisa is on the phone from new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning to you. host: lisa? caller: i have a senior in high school. i was going trade schools and technical schools, specifically electronical degrees -- mechatronical where they combined mechanics and electronics, computers into one program. it is hard to find schools that offer these programs. host: what advice would you give

her? guest: there is a state agency that can direct you to where the programs are located. you could start out with the department of education. there is always a state agency that works with higher education. they do have a record of all the programs in the state. you are in new jersey. that would be in your state. host: michelle has this question on our twitter page. it represents a lot of sentiment from the last 10 minutes or so. is the rise of auto manufacturing in the south due to lower wages and right to work laws? guest: american technical education is supportive of all technical education. someone who is closer to this than i am maybe able to respond. i believe wages are about the same. it may be to the credit of the

auto industry and workers that have set a wage area that there is some level of comparable. i am assuming when businesses decide to locate, they are looking at all of these things. that coulda kid be a factor. host: she is joining us from minneapolis. good morning. caller: i would like to know if this trade school is going to have plumbing and electricians and carpenters like we used to have that were taken out of our schools. every time a trade school offer comes up, everybody seems to map it down and go to computers. they put more satellite up for the electronics that come down. we are wondering about it.

thank you. guest: great comment. i know we have focused on this. what this does is provide that worker who basically if you have something to in hand, someone from a trade school participated in it. to be to have a construction program. in minnesota, at the industry relies on technical education. i am sure those programs are also in your state in new york. we do have plumbing, carpentry, pipe fittings, all these different components that go into this industry. in downturn, it is to the technical college in systems and

individual non-profit and for- profits that have kept it going. we are subject to the same forces of the economy as the ministry is. it is trying to move through those times so you do not downscale to the point you lose that capacity. >> out what to read the phone number again. this is the number again. ninth grade students should be the age were you pursue 1 or two tracks, a technical or academic. guest: is that a question? host: yes. guest: in the american system, students have not been tracked.

there are technical programs that students can opt for. sometimes there offsite from the high school. in my particular community there is one offered at a technical college off site of the high school. i think what could happen, i know people are really encouraging that at least there be career and technical courses required of all students to think about the careers they will go into and that resources can be provided. and othersfaculty that students use to be required to take home economics and shop. they were exposed to a range of things. we do not require it any longer. it may be a good track. we may want to look at how students can move into more of a

technical line as the early technical colleges were high school. i answered it both ways. caller: this is another an example of a woman who is never gotten her hands dirty. she has a bunch of papers in front of her. i used to work in the ford plant. i am a construction worker. we have so many guys strained already. it is that thing for us to work on. another thing i want to tell her, will lead the foreign car companies come over and put hours out of business. guess what? of a lotay a hell less.

the pay scale is nowhere near the same. no wonder the treasury needs money. when you're making $15 an hour, this is a $22 an hour, less taxes are taken out. look in the mirror. you did this to yourself. guest: thank you. what state are you ind? host: illinois. guest: i have responses from the technical college that a lot to accurately quote. i have a typical education in terms of a bachelor's degree and ph.d.. my aunt was one of the first people employed in the ford plant. i am very dedicated to this

area. they did get their hands dirty. it started out with a farming backgrounds. my father was a truck driver. that is what paid my education. i am very dedicated to it. i think he make a good point. there is a differential. there is a need for welders. if you are well, hopefully there is an opportunity for you. my point about the investment is that these are providing jobs. this is the reality of 2012. we certainly support the american automobile workers. it is the frontline and always has been of the automobile industry. it is to our credit that we are getting investments from foreign automakers.

jill, i wish you well. kland community college, they he might be able to help you get a job. they are training people for the health-care industry. i referred to them before. there is the community college in st. louis. they have doubled their applications for the machining area. certainly connect and see what we can do. host: the executive director of the american technical association is on the phone from atlanta. good morning. caller: about 10 years ago i

read some statistics from the u.s. department of education. it says approximately 80% of the jobs we need our trade related. plumbers.tumbler we spent 16 times more money on a college prep them we do on trade type training. in atlanta, i specifically bought a house down here because our high school had a college prep and vocational tech then you could take at the same time. my son, at a great brain, he was the trade school stuff. he was introduced to automobile mechanics. i am an electrician. i got at a trade school, a very

good trade school. i am just appalled at the empt and what did these white-collar people have to the blue-collar trades. disagree with joe in illinois. there are so many welding jobs. for a magazine 10 years ago complaint that we were importing welder's because they could not get enough welders. 500 of them did corbeil weld -- 50% did horrible welds. guest: you are right.

every college, we have been on the ground response. bb from our responders, there is a need for welders. i think your program sounds outstanding. it should not preclude each other. one of the important things that is happening in curriculum [inaudible] misery is looking at this. -- missouri is looking at this. the associate degree means you have some general education. it means an associate of applied science. if you have an applied science degree, you have a program articulated. one of the important thing that the american public needs to

know about technical education is that you can move forward into a bachelor's program. you need to be looking at if there is a pathway established by the school you are attending. we need to be merging these two areas. they are contextual learners. if they can learn the math and science very easily. they know how it is going to be applied. i have watched this happen at st. paul college where i was the dean. the head of the welding program would bring a student over to his desk. it would be a contextual lesson on the type of geometry or physics needed in a weld that was happening at that moment. those are really important programs. the other thing is that we have

ofally this dual view i what is a valuable education being from a 4 year college or technical school. many people who start a four year program do not finish. that can really be a program. you have to explain yourself vs have."a saying "i host: what to bring you into the conversation. thank you for being with us. caller: my college. host: are you getting the students you need for the technical schools? caller: we are. the programs currently still have great careers.

manufacturingur and automotive programs and computer programs all very full right now. some have waiting lists and will have to start in the spring semester. we're looking for to a very good start. we are short in meeting the demand of minnesota's manufacturing economy. other competitors are producing, too. host: do you find these didn't have the skills going into the technical schools whether from -- the students have the schools going into the technical schools to hit the ground running? caller: what we're saying with our student population is we have two primary groups we're serving. one is a group coming from straight from high schools.

we see out of that population probably three-four out of 10: need some developmental program. they will need to be successful in their careers. we have programs put in place to burn dissipate in classes they need to grow at new academically -- we have programs put in place in classes they need to grow package of beckley. workers may need to change .chools that players i we have programs in place to help the students carried by the time they get done they have the

skills sets they need. host: this wonders with the acceleration of technology is a possible by the time students graduate their job may be placereplaced by more technolog? caller: the interesting thing is, especially for the type of programs we have, we have been doing this for nearly 100 years. technology has radically changed. if you take a look at the automobile, it has more computing power in it then that was in the apollo spacecraft. that is the kind of computer technology and our students have to function on. we are talkingre

to industry leaders. we make sure we are teaching the skills that will keep people relevant so when they do graduate the training they received matches the skill set of the job. it is a good question. we make sure we're staying current with the technology to make sure when a student graduates they have been trained to utilize current technology. it is not just about learning the specific occupation. skills also thtaught the of being a learner. he can adapt to the new technology. host: thank you so much for being with us. we want to continue our conversation with the executive

director of the american technical education association. this is an e-mail from a viewer in texas saying we need to start apprentice training early in high school. in germany, any students go to regular school half a day and then go to other types of businesses the rest of the time. guest: we do have some high schools that have that type of program. they do require an internship as you participate in high school. we do have models of that. listening to this comment and the prior comment the discussion is how to better serve our students and our american population. that type of experience if you are college prep and if you're looking at going into a

technical or trade area, it could be very beneficial. i am sure the education association would support that. host: good morning. caller: how are you doing? i am from detroit. i am from the vocational school in detroit. i had a comment. when i got out of school, i am a certified welder. i feel like what i learned in school in the technical school was basically only the tip of the iceberg as opposed to 16 years later with what is actually going on in the workplace.

we have to have many skill sets. i also have to pick up machine this training -machinist training. the kids can hit the ground running. host: thank you. guest: i will like to first say that because he started in a trade school, he had a base of information in which she was able to build -- in which she was able to build. in the new technical education does include algebra. there is a level of math.

if you're in a certificate program you may not need to take a particular level of math. if you are in an associate degree program you will have to have the level of math need it. i would encourage all students to take algebra. it is a technical program. the equipment set is at the level that is going to be out in the industry. there is certainly an injury level of work and steady. he will be working on things that are at the same level your sector has. at the same time, that they have a program where they have a program say you are getting the math along side of it. you have the industry advisory committees. you're a very close to the industry. this is in part why the programs

have continued. he know what the industry is going to need. they're looking for people who also have communication skills, who are team players. the association they have with where they will be employed enhances the employability and longevity. there's nothing to guarantee in any program that things are not going to change. there is the ability to learn. you have a base. host: our guests joining us is the executive director for the american technical education association. our next call is from oregon. good morning. caller: i have not heard anything this morning about the

programs that are available to union programmers. i went there a local print and ship -- apprenticeship. third time i have gathered two associates and a bachelor's. i taught schools for the local. right now there are 3000 steam fetters that are working at intel. there are just as many union technicians. we are all highly trained professionals hooking up equipment worth millions of dollars. technology is incredibly cheap but skilled labor is incredibly expensive.

host: thanks for the call. guest: i am really glad you called. we started off talking about manufacturing. the technical and trade schools the apprenticeship programs that are building trades. i was the dean of technical trade and a print and ship -- apprenticeships. the unionized trades produce that skill. the pipe fitters in st. paul is a highly developed program. they are part of why this area has the expansion in high end of manufacturing. one of the things when i started is that nanotechnology

was a new concept. i did work for the university of minnesota and rochester. i became very aware i happen to sit at a dinner with the ceo of the engineering company. he said the engineers to take it halfway in the trade to get the rest. that is a really great statement in terms of moving forward with innovation. we have the engineering side and we also have the trade side. i do appreciate your comments. i think ted is a great example. he has an associate and a bachelor's degree.

my comments should not take away from the construction trade and from the unionized work force. it is highly skilled. host: is out to bring necessary? if so, why? -- algebra necessary? if so, why? guest: you have to release the comfortable with arithmetic. without your breath, you start working with equations. -- with algebra, you start working with the equations. take algebra, geometry, and higher algebra. you were going to need it. it might block off a whole world of employment to you that you might find it incredibly

interesting by not having algebra. that is one of your best investments. host: the morning. caller: i have a comment. i believe that at colleges are doing a great job. i taught in both a technical high school and a standard high school. there are many kids that are capable and eager to learn a trade. the biggest problem with the school to work programs is that many districts use the technical high school as a place to put all these severe behavior problems. many parents will not put their kids in a school where you have these high percentage of children with drug use and other problems. i would say they need to increase their standards for entry and the kids that have the

severe problems need to go into alternate programs. guest: thank you. that is a good point. the caller from atlanta's spoke about his local high school having the opportunity to be in both the pre-college courses and the technical courses at the same time. i do believe we need to stop this level of isolation and the downgrading of those kinds of programs. engineering came on strong after world war ii. the separated and out somewhat from the trade area. if you look at anything pre- world war ii, the students were dressed up for the courses.

there has always been great respect for people who had a trade or a craft in prior a eeras. we not have the separation in high school so they have a broader range about what the whole rge of opportunities are. one of the growth areas for education is people who have a bachelor's degree and have no field to work in. the certificate programs that are offered at zero colleges can certainly move you into that. -- at these colleges can certainly move you into that. some programs are set aside for people who have already graduated in sciences who want to work in laboratory. that training and experience is

invaluable. that is another whole area. it speaks to try to combine the two. there's a lot of opportunity. that is the good news. you'll go to school and get a biology degree. he can see what you can also pick up at a technical college. i hope that helps. host: we will have to leave it there. thank you for joining us from minneapolis. guest: i want to thank all the callers. host: we will continue the conversation as we do every morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. it has been a year since standard and poor's downgraded the u.s. credit rating. what is the lasting impact the? we will talk about india's massive power failure and weather not --