that lame-duck session then with the opposite. if mitt romney wins, the chances they will extend the bush tax cuts the way they want to and create dialogue on tax reform goes in their favor. it is hard to see how this will play out. >> there is another factor. this lame duck session that is so an important, consider that we know now that there are 11 senators who are leaving at the end of this year. they will participate in that session. as a group, can they forge a a deal? they have nothing at stake anymore. >> conrad has always been dedicated to the budget. lieberman. the can they as a group forge a

reasonable deal matter who wins this election? >> how likely is that to happen? >> i wish i knew. >> i would say it unlikely. >> any type of metal they have tried to reach has failed. unless the outcome is so stirring are motivating, it is hard to see how they might be the decisive a block. >> there are so many states that will determine the outcome. is there one state in particular that you say it that state those so goes the senate? >> at this point i may say that is virginia. >> i would say montana. that race is so close. it is operating outside of the presidential battleground.

montana is just one of these races that could hinge on it. it is one that i will be watching on election night. >> a group of republican governors recently gathered in colorado to talk about education, immigration, and how they govern in their states. participating or chris christie, a body gentle, scott walker, but .hey dawdle this is about one hour. >> welcome, everyone. please take your seats. it is good to have the republican governors panel back again. i want to thank those who have

pulled this together. this is part of our speakers series. thank you. thank you to our aspen residents. good to see you. we have carl. he has been a friend of the aspen institute and louisiana right after the storm. i will start with bobby jindal. thank you for being here. you have been a leader in education reform. you have not only reformed education, but it has been a revolution. competition and choice. explain why you are doing that. >> first of all, thank you for your leadership. many of you may not realize that he was very involved in louisiana in trying to help it

get back on its feet. [applause] i want to talk briefly about education reform in new orleans and across the state. katrina did not cause all the problems. it is tempting to say everything was fine for the tremendous for the school system. the school system was one of the worst public school systems in the entire country. we had dozens and dozens of employees being paid at companies that did not exist. dead people were geting paid in new orleans as well. what was horrific was the lack of education. there were no supplies. it was terrible. katrina comes through and destroys the buildings. the state comes in.

of employees down to be paid at companies that did not exist. that people get paid in new orleans as well. what was terrific was the lack of education. -- horrific was the lack of education. there were no supplies. it was terrible. the trend comes through and destroys the buildings -- katrina comes through and the stories theuildings. the state comes in. interestingly, charter schools. the state was not in position to directly operate all of those schools. it is one of the most chartered cities iamerica.

80% of kids in new orleans go to charter schools. the percentage okids are reading and doing math and great love in new orleans has doubled. the percentage of kids has doubled. for anyone says who you can do this quickly, new orleans shows you can do it quickly. this does not mean you need a charter school everywhere. we have shut down charter schools that were bad. we have had great charter schools. several different groups of come in and help us do this. paul did a phenomenal job. we now have a new guy from new yorktate doing a great job. we are doing this state wide. we have done several things of the state level. here are three very important state reforms. one, we gave a letter grade on all public schools. the letter grade is based on quantifiable data. how will i students during on

standardized -- are students doing on standardized tests? are my kids learning? are theyeading? are they doing math? how are ey comparing two kids in other states? -- to other kids in other states? it turns out there were not doing as well as others. one-third of our kids were above grade level. we responded $billion on failing schools. this was a very important for step. if you do not do this, a lot of people argue the status quo was fine. we had to argue that it was not fined. we passed a law lot this past year saying the dollars will follow the students instead of the students following the dollars. students can take the dollars and go to a private school or

charter schl, whatever made sense for this child. >> basically, a voucher system. >> we call it scholarships. the teacher unions call it four-letter words. call iwhatever you want. the average tuition was roughly $4,6. the kids are doing better. we had over 10,000 kids are applied. 000 slots.ween 5000-6 happe one of the teacher indians came out and said that parents do not have a clue when it -- one of the teacher unions came out and said that parents do not have a clue. i want a couple of things out there.

we reformed how we evaluate, hire, pay, and hire or fire our teachers. it is no longer based on seniority. [applause] the teacher union said, we do not mind you evaluating teachers. this did not try it closely to student achievement. -- just do not try to tie it closely tstudent achievement. we're very proud of what we're doing in louisiana. some people sathis is ambitious. but i am here to tell you that are many governors doing similar things. bob has done great things.

he has an education summit coming up. chris has been fighting for school choice in new jersey. we look at what nikki is doing in south carolina. this is extremely important. if we want to compete economically with other states and other countries, we have to improve education in america. we cannot be 16th in the world. [applause] the teacher unions stopped by and nounced they were suing schools participating in this program. they try to fight us every step of the way. you are trying to recall others. they are the coalition for the status quo. it cannot be about the adult in

the school system. it has to be about the kids. >> thank you, governor. governor chris christie, i want said thank you. he did wonderful things in new york. home run. you talked about newark and great reforms there. it said that charter and choice. explain that. >> we passed tenure reform in new jersey. it ties directly to student achievement. it allows a teacher to lose tenure at the two years in a row of partially affected operating are one year of an effective

reading. we have all this tenure law in america. it is 100 years old. the people who are paying to not have that amended was the teacher unions. we have a good charter law. we close some bad charters as well. we opened up more in new jersey. we focus on the struggling diricts. some parents do not have the ability to send their kids into schools. we want to give them a choice. >> how are you working with cory? >> he is my favorite democrat. what booker understands is that

his city will never turn around until the educational system turns around. but he understands is that the status quo is not the unable in being able to turn his city around. we are working together on expanding charters and trying to get the choice in the city of newark. the teachers' unions make the argument that money equals folley. in new york, we spend $24,000 per student per year. the kids who entered ninth grade last year, 20% of them will graduate with a high school diploma in four years. the argument we are making is

that for 30 years, big teacher unions have saying things that are simply not true. what we find is that the more money we spend, the wor of the results debt. -- results get. we are paying for students to not go to class. >> day have a new contract? >> we do not have one yet. she ran the public school system in new york city. if she did work get there, we newark.hoct in school line, newark's

system -- mmy parents made the decision that the school system was so bad that they wanted their son to have a future. they had to get us out. we have the ability to get out and go to a better school district. most parents do not. pretty marta's into the dtrict while carter's turn around . >> and john white, the person that you mentioned, the thing they have in common is that there were both teach for america members. speaking of unions, governor scott walker.

[cheers and applause] you have had an interesting year. what lessons did you learn from the recall? >> right on cue, our buet has turned into a surplus. i was able to put money into the rainy day fund. eight of these great governors are great friends of mine. they help me out on this campaign. the biggest lesson in our state, a state that is truly a swing state in the presidential election, the voters said they elect us and what leaders willing to make tough decisions. that was the most compelling message of all. we have heard it.

[applause] all of us as candidates, we hear of voters complain about two things up -- to buy complain about candidates who say things and then break their promises -- they complain about candidates who say things and then break their promises. why is it that all of us can see perfectly clearly what the problems are, what needs to be done, but the politicians in coppice failed to take heard on those issues? but we did. -- office failed to take action on those issues? but we did. people like my friend paul ryan is one of the most courageous men i know in politics. i knew that if we did not

prevail in the election, it would set aside courage in congress and in washington. the only thing that is different from me and the other governors is that i got a little bit more attention. but all of them have been doing. will it courageous things around the country. the results are really amazing. think about it. the states elected these governors in 2010. the unemployment rate is greater th the national average. republican-led states have a 1% difference lower in in the unemployment rate. that is because we're willing to take on tough decisions. voters want us to do that. [applause] >> one of the things that governor christie and governor jindal have in common is that if you are working very well with

democratic mayors and legislators. you need every day with a democratic leadership. after your recall, d you find a way to reduce the partisanship and reach out? it cannot be done? >> sure. mayors, it may be tough. it may take some tim my wife said before the election, on election night you have to say something that will bring the state back together. your supporters acknowledge this was a great win. bring the state back together. she suggested having the lawmakers over to eat. i love june cookouts. we will have bugers and beer.

we have 400 law makers and spouses come over and sor tof dave -- sort of gave them permission to be social again. it really put a freeze on the ability for people to work togeth because there were outside pressures. now that it was gone, each week lawmakers come over for breakfast or lunch to talk about things we can work on. when we talk about the economy, it is about moving our states forward. >> the vendonikki haley, welcomo the stage. on the national level when it comes to fiscal issues, it seems

there a cliff we are about to drive off but people are not ready to compromise. at the state level, you always have to be ready to do that. you have a great reputation as anyone for being against taxes. at times, you have voted for a sales tax increase would have to be part of the package to keep a clip from happening. do you think it is psible vote on the federal level -- do you think it is possible on the federal level to find a solution somewhere to are the simpson-bowles came out? will there be tax reform, but also a larger proportion -- dor do you think it is too big of a compromise? >> instead of steps looking at where the income will come from, how are we spending the

money? [applause] whether you are a republican or a democrat, everyone needs to understand that govnment money belongs to the people. how they spend it matters. this last budget, i said that any additional revenues that come in -- i do not think any states are out of the woods -- i think any additional revenues that come in should pay off debt or go into trust funds are back into that tracks fund relief. nothing else. -- or back into the tax fund relief. nothing else. and there are a great missions, but that is not theole of the government. one of the things i vetoed it

was the arts commission. we love the arts. but our founding fathers did not say that the government should control the rights of people and the arts commission. they said to control the rights of people and not be all things to people. we have some people saying, how dare you take out arts commission. we did not take the arts out of schools. but i told the people of south carolina, did you know we are paying $1.6 million for 18 people to work in and 18,000 sq. ft. building? there is no way ty can do that. educational tv, would be towed back last year. every year, we're putting money on the line item and millions of dollars and they had nothing to show for it. we have reformed it. now it is paying for other programs. the key is that everyone is looking for money. the money is there. washington is in chaos.

what we need to do in the state, we need to balance the budget. we have to take on pension reform. we need to do it in a way that we c. i do not think we compromised on that. >> governor bob mcdonnell of virginia. thank you for joining us. thank you for putting this together. [applause] >> early in this institute, your 20 years in the army, is that right? others are here is saying, maybe it is time both for military and other ways to expect everyone to

do a couple of years of national service. what did think of the idea of expected national service? >> first, thank you for hosting the republican governors as you have done the last couple of years. we contributed by helping end the drought. we have other governors and others who will be here. by the wya, congratulations -- by the way, congratulations on the new book on steve jobs. entrepreneurship is something that needs to be encouraged and awarded at every level. your story about steve jobs is very important. america is the most generous country on earth. you name it. it goes back to the traditions that our fathers planted here in

virginia and other places as well. the military and -- we have people who voluntarily serve. including the husband of nikki haley. thank you for that. [applause] the people are willing to go to foreign soil and fight and defend and die for people they do not know because they love freedom so much. i am not sure, it has been a long time since the draft, but we have always done things in america because we are motivated by doing the right thing itead of being compelled by vernment. that may be a noble goal, but what we need is that people who

ve a blueprint from the president and others to celebrate and start to talk about duty they have as an american. through much is given, much is required. we have a moral duty to give back. we need to talk about that at the heart of the service and not a new government obligation. we should want to do it because it is the right thing to do. it could be mentoring are vonteering at a local soup kitchen. to me, that is the way to keep america a great and not a new government mandate. [applause] >> any of the thoughts i national svice? on governor christie, you are famous for working across the aisle. why does that not happen in washington?

what lessons can we learn from new jery and the lake district of columbia? >> -- the district of columbia? >> it takes effort. one of the things that happened to me dramatic transition was that i saw a mentor of mine. we had weekly meetings. in the first meeting, he sent me the agenda. i sat down and said, whais today? he said, who is your best friend? i said, my wife. he said, no more. [laughter] i said, really? he said, the senate president will be your best friend.

if he did not make yourself friends with the senate president, you will not get anything done. you have to develop a trusting relationship with him. you will agree and disagree badly on some things, but you have to work hard as you can to develop a relationship with him. when there are difficult moments when youre really close anything get compromise, the last barrier in his experience to compromise is a trust. in the end, you are looking across at the other person from the other party. will they make this compromise? will they be true to their word? or will they stick it to me? i think the difference is the relationships in washington. the president did not spend any time trying to get to the john boehner bause he did not need him. he ignored him. when he tried to develop a relationship with him when he beca speaker, it was too

plate. what we learned in new jersey -- it was too late. what we live in new jersey -- we're not talking about a warm and cuddly guy. he cares deeply about the things he belies in. we have found a way to sit and talk with each other. we have an obligation that is bigger than our parties. we need to g things done. he was the sponsor of the pension and benefit reform bill. it raise the retirement age. it put bigger penalties in for early retirement. increase the contribution of every union member from the school board to the state. he was the sponsor of the bill. he added that democratic assembly speaker posted a those

bills with only one-third of their caucus vote for it. once the caucus and the republicans passhe bill -- he came in for the last meeting before posting it for a bout. our conversati was, we need to protect eachther. we had tens of thousands of people for that week on the front steps of the capital. union workers of the public sector from both new jersey and around the country. you ever calling us all kinds of names. he said, we need to be with each other on this. by that time in june 2011, we had a year and have a working together and a year and a half of relationship. that makes a difference. if you do not starthe, you bridging the of breakin gap. because there is no trust. we need a strong leader in the white house who will develop

personal relationships with not just republicans, if you are republican president, and not just democrats if you a a democratic president, but everyone. he there now if you will need them. that is what being president -- you do not know if you will need them. that is what being president is all about. [applause] >> in the republican primaries this year so far in indiana, nebraska, and yesterday in xas, the republican who was best at working across the aisle and developing trust and sometimes compromising -- are youorried about our primary system and the ones who are did we cannot keep compromising as usual?

>> i think this is a big difference here. i do not agree with their promise. -- your premise. in general, the candidate winds. -- wins. the more energetic and vigorous candidate won in all three of those. the job of a governor and president is -- you cannot have anyone sacrifice their principles. if you have to compromise your principles, you need to worry about that person. you cannot get everything you want. the job of the governor is to find that boulevard. it exists between getting what

you want and compromising your principles. your job as executive is to find your way on that the boulevard to make progress for your state to puree the sometimes it is obvious. sometimes it is -- to make progress for your state pi. but sometimes it is obvious. sometimes it is hard. they did not see the president as and distant, evil figure. he became more human to them. why did he ask them for a compromise, maybe they will be lling to listen as long as it is not compromising their principles. >> governor walker? [applause] >> to follow up on what he said, chris talked about the protest he had. there was a protest in the

capital around that time. christie + sweetie = walker was protestor sign. 96% of all of the bills i signed into law had the votes from republicans and democrats and independents. 96%. overwhelmingly, most of those bills were about wealth in the economy and things we could do the stimulate the government. republicans initiated them, and many democrats and in the pants went along with that as well. conversely independents went along

with that as well. for years in congress, we have had are giving had a fair amount of members of congress not willing to make tough choices. that is why we face the kind of deficit problems we have today. in that case, that is bipartisanship ia way that i do not embrace. i want bipartisanship to reach across party lines that produces results. one other tidbit to add. the biggest thing missing in the debate -- they are taking a narrow focus. if these are things that this party and the party hates, if we

take an equal number of this, we can balance the budget. there is no growth agenda. there is no strategy for growth. growth is not come from our government. think about it. five simple things we should of the federal level. balance the budget is a big one. reduce the marginal tax rate like we did a generation ago to put more money back in the -- to the american people. rein in the epa. if we did all of those things -- [applause] >> bobby jindal.

governor walker mentioned the repealf the health care law. i think you were 12 and came back from england. what would you do to agree a new health care law revision? >> one of my greatest disappointment in this president did is his failure to lead on entitlement reform. let at it. every time he talks, he always says, we know we need to reform the entitlement reform. get a little more time. he has said that four years in a row. go back even further when i was at the hhs. you had democrats and others

endorsing premium support. we need to reform medicare. it is not sustainable. one of the greatest failures back then was aailure of the clinton administration. you need to have democrats will not demonize people like paul ryan. everyone was looked up this program know tt we cannot continue to do this. the prident had a majority in the senate and house. he did i even tried to get republican votes. he have the bill written and then he tried to get them to sign it. >> do you agree there should be better health care? >> absolutely. >> what would you do to make sure people could have better health care? >> it is not that complicated. health care needs to be more affordable.

indeed did give tax incentives to business owners who do not ha. people should not have to buy their health care. it should be able to. but if they want to buy it through their churches are their unions -- we need to reduce the costs of health care. it and send tens of millions of dollars a federal taxpayer dollars. [applause] i understand folks are worried and they want protection. give them a voluntary basis. if you are willing to adjust for the population growth and inflation, if you will produce lower inflation, in return you show us your health care

outcomes as good or better than what you were doing before, i bet to every governor would take that deal in a heartbeat. >> would you take that deal? >> if you would save millions of dollars. -- younger adopt a premiu working adults need march was in competition sitting dead innovati health care plans and will meet their needs. -- more in the competition and innovative health care plans that will meet their needs. instead of a consumer based health care, we would like the consumers incentives with the providers incentives with the employers' incentives. if you can save money, you get to pocket some of those savings.

there are many other things we need to do. this is where we need to move to in the health care in america. we have opened up dozens of clinics to get people out of the emergency room. we have a portable records. if the understand it in a way so consumers can make real choices. the what bureaucrats running your health care or do you want your provider's -- do you want bureaucrats running your health care idea what you're providers running the health care? >> governor haley, but you can governor jindal are both the children -- but both you and governor jindal of the children of immigrants. do we need to be more welcoming to illegal immigrants?

how do that in immigration reform? >> we have passed one of the strong as illegal immigration reform in the country. i tell people i am the proud daughter of indian parents remind us every day how blessed we are to live in this country. but they came here the right way. they've paid in their time and money. they are offended by people who come here illegally because they did the right way. what we have to say is that we will not take legal immigration in this country. we are a country of laws. , give up the laws, we give up everything america is made of -- when we give up the laws, we give up everything america is made up. [applause] border control is not just every time someone icrosses the border, there goes another one.

we have a lot of good talent that comes to our universities. they come here and we educate them and given the talent and emmys and the back to their country. we need to expend the working department so we keep the talent here and also do it legally so that it works. people think it is one or the other, but it is not. >> questions. raise your hand. i will call you out if i can. there in the red. >> i am a foot soldier at the white house. i miss having a discussion was someone about economic issues.

had to deal with it ahmanson and recognizes there could be an issue on the policies? governor christie, you are reaching for your microphone? >> in new jersey, i in the first pro-black governor who has been elected since r versus wade. -- pro-life governor president- elect it since roe versus wade. i think what most people who are concerned about some of those issues where we have differences of opinion, what they want to here is your honest feel. usa did not want to hear your deriding someone else. what want to hear -- they do not want to hear you deriding someone. they want to hear your honest deal.

to't try to be all thigns all -- things to all people. here is where wetand. if you are talking to someone who is passionate about social issues that are opposite from the candidate you would support, he has the freedom to go. if you try to hedge and morph your view on these tough issues, then you are nothing. need more people like that in politic [applause] >> scott walker. >> a message to them is the same

as oth swing voters out there. e most compelling issue is e future of our children. our country is in a fiscal crisis. this president knew in 2008 knew what economy was facing at the time. we have lost almost half 1 million jobs in this country under this president. it is not working. it is a people who voted for him last of member that it is ok for them to try, but he has failed. we need to move on and find someone who can fix this. we're looking at this from an economic and fiscal standpoint. paul ryan and i earlier this summer stood up and remind the voters in our state that after years earlier, barack obama stood up and said it was on page added to add four trillion dollars to the national debt at that point.

five trillion dollars has been added and. this president has failed. what better candidate than some western businesses around? -- who has turn businesses around? this is a candidate, mitt romney, who sit in the olympics literallrolled up hishe sleeves and fixedomething the federal government had screwed up abundantly. this is guy who can turn america around. we need someone who can fix things [applause]

governor haley. >> there is simple. to tell yourd say is friends to ask who has lost jobs? it is all about the jobs in the economy. we can have our social issue debate. social issues are tough to talk about when you are seeing many people unemployed. >> governor christie, to follow up on what you are saying, do you think it would be possible and permissible in the republican party for governor romney to pick a running mate who was not pro-life? >> i have to say that the party will look at what governor romney wants to do and who he will pick and who he is

comfortable with. for me, i would not want to do that. if you're voting for someone wh -- people want consistency in that regard. in the end, it will be governor romney's choice. there is a onvote. he gets to make it. this is the kind of thing where people will only talk about that in our party. let me ask you the same question back. would barack obama be free to pick a pro-life president at the democratic national convention? i think we play defense of this too much because the question

always comes our way. why would we ask governor romney in this? let's turn the question around. all barack obama and pick a pro-left candidate? bob casey was not allowed to speak at a convention because he is pro-lifers. -- pro-life. my point is, the fact that the question is a sincere is proof of the context that we have included. that question is never asked of the democratic party. i have never heard it since the bob casey. buty predecessors was a pro-

choice republican. good to imagine the democrats making a pro-life democratic co- chair of the convention? -- could you imagine the democrats making a pro-let democratic co-chair of the conventions? it is possible. but i would not do it. [laughter] [applause] >>ight there. and gentlemen in the back. >> as always, great the governors and great leadership for our country. thank you. >> please identify yourself. >> richards. unemployment among the young people has more than doubled. when we take a look at college graduates in their 20's,he

bigger problem is under employment. if we continue to have people pay for this education and come out as workers or managers of starbucks and begin to address the unemployment of our twentysomethings, we have a big problem. internships clearly help students get to the goal line of jobs. yet government who could clearly help with the resume does not pay interns. the government could use a lot of endurance, but we do not pay interns. >> governor mcdonnell. >> let me talk about the broader issue a workforce development and how to get thgreatest country on earth back to work. that will determine who wins this election.

that is what this election is about. [applause] i'll give you the political answer and the policy answer. politically, that statistic that you give is one of the best reasons why mitt romney will win. those voting blocks that were attracted before, it did not work so well for those 10 people. they are getting out of college thousands of dollars in debt and there are no opportunities that used to be there. it is young voters that are suffering worse in the obama economy. the make up a majority of that 8.1% unemployed. growth through economic

development and not more taxes is exactly the message to i want to hear. second, that the voting block is the one that will pay the bills for th absolutely irrespo nsible tax policies of the last several years. we want to get it on track. let me tell you what the real answer is. paid it and ship -- internship. the top thing they want to know about is what to do long-term to train and motivate a workforce to sustain a business for the long haul? that is why when we look at china and singapore and other places, we have our work cut out for as. we have a great education

system. we have the best workers in the world. but if we do not have the focus, if we do not have the workers turning for the some people, we will not cut it. one of the most alarming statistics i have heard recently, and this is the biggest challenge for the next president and governors, is that we are the lowest level of new started businesses in america in 30 years. think about that. small businesses in america. there is no way for the existing corporations medium and large to create and sustain economic growth we need to keep america the hope of the earth. you need to have a steve jobs or bill gates. until we create a culture of entrepreneurship and we have every policy at the federal and state level focused on creating the next generation entrepreneurs and motivate the some people are getting out of

college and to think about the american dream in a new way and be willing to take new risks and that is whyelail -- romney is the best for america. >> this is about jobs. what will we do to get people jobs? that goes back to, what are we doing to recruit businesses? i am looking forward to the day when we're not taking from each other. a south carolina has started to do that. in the south carolina, we build things. we build the cars and planes. all of that comes with a workforce to do it. there are three factors that allows south carolina to be a state ere companies are coming in. we'reeeping the costs of doing

business low. i replaced my entire board -- tiem is money -- ti is money. for them.he workers they tell me how many engineers and they need. i make sure i have those workers ready. i am telling you. i will continue to be a union buster all day long. we are still one of the lowest unionize states in the country. for all of you who have asked me about the national labor report, you need to go. what happened in south carolina, boeing, a great american compy wanted to expand to thousand jobs in washington state. not one person was hurt. the ball and the national labor

board sued and said -- president obama and the national labor board sued. every one of the governor stepped up and said, this is the most on american thing we have ever seen. it being an election year, i think president obama realized it could be a problem. we ask every presidential candidate but they thought about it. everyone spoke about it except for president obama. that lawsuit was dropped. instead of those thousands employees in boston, a few weeks ago we saw one of those big mac daddy planes, onto the tarmac and saying made with pride in the south colina, followed by 6000 non-union employees. [applause] >> thank you.

i have heard some wonderfully inspiring things. one of the things you said that one of the problem once of leadership is taking difficult positions, especially public decisions. why do -- speaking about weapons reform, and especially assault weapons? they are designed only to kill. you never see big game hunters with a flak jacket. there is no excuse for them. [applause] >> who wants to take that? [laughter] >> is there any form of assault weapons or anything else that we should reconsider, or is that off the table? >> it i disagree with the premise of the question. i do not agree that it takes

courage to -- it takes courage to do the politically correct thing. we need to enforce the laws on the books. i cannot think taking weapons away from law-abiding citizens will make us safer. we do need to keep weapons away from those who will break our laws. this is an area where there is a principled agreement. -- disagreement. it is not a lack of political courage. i have a different view. the left sometimes tries to create rights that are not in the constitution. they find all these things -- for example, the supreme court ruled that our state could not put to death a convicted child molester. they said it was not constitutional, and yet some of the samples that say that to not want to read in the letter of the law in the second amendment. if folks want to change that, they can amend the constitution. it is a principled stand. the way we make our communities

safer is not by disarming our law-abiding citizens, but by enforcing the laws on the books, stopping nonsensical operations like fast and furious that the weapons in the hands of criminals, and crack down on criminals, not the law-abiding. [applause] >> i would agree with the premise of what bobby said. political courage is in the eye of the beholder. i disagree with the premise of the question as well. in new jersey, we have some of the toughest gun laws of any state in the country. we are the most densely populated state in the country. we have people with some tempers there. you have to be careful. you have to be careful about what is going on in our state, but the fact is that determination should be made state-by-state. each state should be able to make their own determination. >> you have supported gun control laws that are pretty strict in the state of new jersey. >> i have, because that is what

the people of our state want. they have been found to be constitutional. i do not have any problem with that. i do not have any problem with different states making different determinations. i disagree with the premise. i am repelled by the reaction to the things that happen in this state, by politicians tripping over each other to take a tragedy before people have even had their funerals and try to turn it into a political cause. i think it is wrong. a number of politicians around this country -- can we please have a few rules for the dead before we start lining up and holding press conferences? i think it is unseemly. no matter where you stand on this issue, we should not be using tragedy in the day or two days afterwards, with people jumping up in congress and holding press conferences to say, because of this now we have to do a, b, or sea.

it is unseemly. let's let people mourn first. let's let people recover first before we start doing political grandstanding. that is why people hate politicians. these are people suffering. now we will turn it into a big political circus. we should not have that in this country. we should have more caring for each other and the human spirit, and not have every politician running for a microphone every time there is a tragedy in this country. thank you. [applause] >> thank you all very much for being here. we will see you next year. we are in non-partisan institute, so there is a dinner for madeleine albright and usaid that i about had to. i appreciate your being here again. thank you bram much. -- very much. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

[conversation] >> earlier today, wisconsin governor scott walker and south carolina governor nikki haley responded to the temple shooting outside milwaukee, wisconsin. governor walker said they are working with the fbi and local law enforcement, and expressed their support for victims and first responders. governor haley offered her condolences to the victims and the injured officer. next, a look at the foreign policy stand it -- stances of president obama and ronnie. this is a 20-minute portion "washington journal.

host: 12 welcome back to martin powell of the brookings institution. i want to begin with a piece that goes back to the core of what you are writing -- why are candidates ignoring afghanistan? there are still 80,000 u.s. troops there, but we are getting very few details from the president and romney about what afghanistan will look like in 2013. guest: as you pointed out, the candidates themselves do not choose to talk about afghanistan now. there is also the fact that there are not many american reporters there. for some reason, in the editor's mind at this point, afghanistan is a story that is fading from the public consciousness. we appear to be so absorber of the economy that we cannot focus -- absorbed with the economy that we cannot focus beyond that. host: if you look at headlines, this morning "the new york

times" focused on syria. if you can draw the parallel between what is happening in syria and what happened in lydia? >guest: as far as president obama is concerned, there is a connection. last year, there was a temptation for the united states to get involved in libya, but the lessons of afghanistan and iraq came into play. we decided that the government -- of the government decided that this is not anything for the u.s. right now. we are too absorbed with the economy. we have so many other problems. we still have so many troops in afghanistan. let's not get involved. that was the key phrase. let's not get involved in libya. our allies who were getting involved needed us. we provided that initial impetus, but then pulled back. host: you traveled to how many countries around the world?

for a piece you wrote you say this -- a obama and ronnie's for policies are different in words, not substance. the positions of the two candidates have begun to overlap in major foreign policy issues. guest: i believe that to be the case. it is an interesting issue. if you just listen to governor romney, you get the impression that he is dramatically different from president obama. what we are really dealing with is this -- when a candidate for the presidency begins to run and pushes line, he has to send different from the person he is running against. so they try with rhetoric to establish differences. but then you begin to read what it is that their positions are, on one issue after another, afghanistan, syria, china -- you

are going to find that the positions actually begin to move towards each other and ultimately overlap. one of the reasons for that is that the opportunity for the u.s. under any president, democrat to republican, to do something dramatically different is simply not there. you went up realistically with a limited set of options. if you think about afghanistan right now, romney several months ago began to talk in dramatic terms about how, if he were president, he would do this, that, and the other. now he has moved remarkably close to president obama's deadline of 2014 to get american troops out within that time. so what we are dealing with now is a rhetorical difference but substantive overlap. host: this is mitt romney

speaking at the vfw -- the other argument many democrats say is, what is the difference between obama and foreign policy and push for an policy? guest: that is a good question. the options for the united states of america right now, given all of its problems, to do something dramatic and different happen to be very limited. we can talk big, but when it comes to doing something we are hamstrung on that. i find that, whether you are president bush or president obama or candidate romney, you and the drifting towards the middle. host: our guest is marvin powell, the court -- former host of "meet the press. he is a graduate of harvard and now senior fellow at the brookings institution.

at the vfw convention last month, we will hear from the president. first, mitt romney on afghanistan. >> i have been critical of the president's decision to withdraw surge troops during the fighting season. the president would have to believe that anybody who disagrees with his decision is arguing for endless war, but the route to more war and potential attacks here at home is a politically-time to retreat. as president, my goal in afghanistan will be to complete a successful transition to afghan security forces by the end of 2014. i will of valley conditions on the ground and solicit the best advice of our military commanders. i will affirm that my duty is not to my political prospects, but to the security of the nation and the safety of our troops. host: what is he proposing?

guest: when you listen to the governor, he has a remarkable way of saying a great deal in terms of the words that are used. when you begin to analyze it, what is he really saying? he is the manning said time and time again that he would not want to except any deadlines. now he is more or less accepting the 2014 deadline. he makes a statement that he has president would listen to the military commanders. as if, by implication, president obama is totally ignoring what his generals say. it is almost at a certain point silly, but it does conform to the needs of american presidential campaign. that is what the governor is doing. he is trying to sound different from obama, but when you think about afghanistan, i imagine right now that romney were president. you have the 2014 press --

deadline. you listen to the commanders -- what else would you be doing? what the united states is doing now as best as it can is withdrawing from an extremely uncomfortable operation that would take many, many more years than the u.s. has the appetite right now to devote. guest: the rise of the cold war, the fall of the berlin wall, the dissolving of the soviet union -- he spent time in moscow. mitt romney has talked a lot about russia and the threat we face from them. how serious of a threat is that, and from your standpoint what is the biggest threat? is russia, if you are poor country, nuclear-weapons? -- a third world country, nuclear weapons? guest: there was a time 30 years ago when, as a correspondent in moscow, i simply knew that i was in the middle of one of the great stories. what the soviet union did would

have a direct effect on my children, on all of america. so i was interested in it, you were, everyone was. the cold war ends -- who then is our enemy? does the united states require, for political and economic reasons, to have out there some large and me? without the soviet union, whom do we have? we certainly have global terrorism as a threat, but is that a threat to the united states and to its system? maybe, but maybe not. but a soviet nuclear attack was a threat that was very clear. right now, one of our problems is that the threat is diffuse. it is out there. you know it, but it is not clear exactly what it is. that is one of our great problems right now. how much money do you need for

defense? the people at the pentagon argue, quite understandably, more and more and more, but they are not cutting back. it is quite unrealistic. against whom are you going to be using all these weapons? there is no soviet union anymore. are you imagining that china is going to be the big threat to the united states in five or 10 years? there are some people in washington who argue that china is that kind of a threat now. it is not. china is still a great, bustling, exciting country, but it is not the old soviet union. there is nothing in american history that preordains china as an enemy of the united states. it is just not there. but we seem to be looking for some kind of an enemy to justify the budgets and maybe

something psychological. i am not sure i understand myself. estour phone host: are from lines are open. you can also send us an e-mail or join us on our facebook page or on twitter. one of our viewers says that we -- you are right on, there is not much of a difference between democrats and republicans despite all the rhetoric and argument. here with his signature red tie -- you have some new red ties. we talk about this before. don is on the phone from south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. it is being said that there is very little difference between the former bush policy and

obama, but i find a great difference in the fact that obama is more concerned with bringing other nations on line with us in our efforts to, let's say, police the world. i believe that is absolutely necessary to the condition of our economy. we need a world consensus now in modern times with all of the connections and communications -- one other point. to your guest, i agree with him. sometimes we manufacture problems. i believe that it is in direct support of the military industrial complex. host: thank you. appreciate the call. guest: if i said before that there was no difference between bush and obama, i misspoke. i did not mean to say that. i meant that, on large issues, there tends to be an overlap.

between bush and obama there was an enormous difference. president bush went into iraq which i think president obama would certainly not have done. there were a lot of major things in terms of the whole attitude that president bush had about the utilization of american military power to assert an america which simply had passed. nevertheless, he tried. as far as iraq was concerned, my own judgment is that it has never should have -- it never should have happened. but it did, and we live with the consequences now. the idea that we are all beholden to a military- industrial complex -- i do not buy that either. i do not buy that because i do not think that what drives and motivate the united states -- it is not something as simple as a military-industrial complex, picking up the trap -- a phone and saying, mr. president, this is what you have to do. this is what you -- right now,

there is a heavy overlap of economic concerns in this country which also has a direct effect on our capacity in foreign policy. are we able, for example, to do everything we want to do and perhaps could have done 20 years ago? the answer is that we cannot. that is one of the things we see in president obama's policy. he would like to do certain things but is aware that you need allies and you cannot unilateral everything in the way we did before. host: you have sparked quite a discussion. this is michael who says that the plan is to darken the skies of afghanistan with brown's after troops are gone. -- and drones after the troops are gone. guest: there is something to that, but at the same time -- if

you can actually do that, i do not think that happens. i think that the drone is a decision instruments to attack limited targets here and there rather than overall. it is very different from having a drone go out and -- and attack once a day, and having 100,000 troops in afghanistan. host: an e-mail said to us -- one at romney surrogate made the reference to the freedom agenda. the people advising the mitt romney -- to me, that means a much more hawkish administration under romney. guest: if you were just to go with the names mentioned, i think there would be grounds for that kind of concern. again, my sense of the governor -- i have never met him, so i do not know from first-hand experience, but my sense is that

he is a very intelligent man and a very pragmatic man. he is going to try to move towards the center rather than live and govern on the fringe. i think that the writers concern, while legitimate, will not end up being the legitimate outcome. host: he is also the author of "haunting legacy." mike is on the phone, republican, north carolina. caller: good morning. i guess i would say that i disagree with you on one issue in terms of their rhetoric. i think that sometimes the rhetoric can be important in terms of perception of the united states, our goals, our role in the world from overseas

-- the one example, for mr. romney, and i am not sure what he will do if elected, because none of us really do -- his word and on russia. i think it was spot-on. he has taken a lot of grief for it, but i think that if you really analyze it, and you have got incredible experience in this area that i certainly do not, but if you look at the behavior of russia, it has not changed remarkably. maybe they have been scaled back slightly because of the collapse of the soviet union, but look at their position with syria, with iran, they stand against us almost every juncture where we try to further freedom, democracy, what john kennedy talked about in his inaugural in

1961 where we will stand by any friend and against any enemy. i think that reagan was like that. president bush 41 was like that. bush 43 was like that. president obama has, to a large extent, as many democrats now -- not like john kennedy, certainly, have taken a position that the united states is one of many =, that we do not have to take a leadership role in the world. i think many republicans still cv world through the eyes of john kennedy and ronald reagan. without america taking a leadership role, the world that has existed since the end of world war ii will cease to exist. host: thank you for the call. guest: a couple of very good points in their, but when you talk about russia and seemed to be saying that russia and the soviet union were more or less

the same -- forgive me, but there were profound differences. russia today is a country protecting its national interest. the soviet union was the fountainhead of a global communist movement. there is, in my judgment, a radical difference between the two. as far as the democrats sort of losing america's leadership in the world -- i think phaser -- there, too is a difference. what obama is trying to say with his leadership is that america still leads, but it does not lead in a unilateral way. it does not say to the rest of the world, it is my way or no way, you have to get on board. obama is saying i will lead, the

u.s. will lead, but i would love to have you guys come along with me. i believe that in the world today that makes a great deal of sense. host: one viewer says, mr. president, the -- the president has not asked for more troops and -- that is the difference between romney and the president. guest: there is no question that petraeus wanted to keep a larger force in afghanistan. that is absolutely true. he wanted to keep that forster what he called the next fighting season -- forced their through what he called the next fight in season. there was the difference between petraeus and obama, but they did it live together on the same page in the same place with afghanistan. petraeus new and knows very well that you do not pick yourself up and simply dictate

in afghanistan what will happen. the difference was that petraeus felt that first you have to bloody their nose badly of the enemy, then they would come on board and negotiate. obama thought, bloody than at the cost level that the u.s. can manage, and we can not do it in the old way. in that sense, petraeus, who is an extraordinary general, a very bright man, he and obama, another very bright man, disagreed on the issue. that does not mean you ignore what the military is saying. you listen, you have a discussion -- you are the president. you got elected to make a decision. host: now he is the director of the cia. the president also spoke at the vfw convention about afghanistan.

>> i pledged to finish the job in afghanistan. we had to break the momentum of the taliban and build up the capacity and capability of afghans. working with our commanders, we came up with a new strategy and ordered additional forces to get the job done. this is still a tough fight. thanks to the incredible services and sacrifices of our troops, we pushed the taliban back. we are training afghan forces. we have begun to transition to afghan leads. there are those who argued against the timeline for ending the war, or against talking about a publicly. that is not a plan for america's circuit -- security either. given the progress we have made, i thought it was important for the american people and our men and women in uniform, that they

know our plan to end this war responsibly. host: from the washington post, that seems to be his standard line -- we are winding down in afghanistan. guest: if you go back to obama in 2008, when he was running for the first time for president, one of the remarkable things that he said, also led to a convention of the veterans of foreign wars, was that afghanistan was a war "that we have to win." in other words, as a candidate, as a democrat, as a liberal who had never served in the military, he did not want to seem to be soft. he wanted to be tough. he said this was a war we had to win. when he was in office for one year, he began to change. what you have now is the president saying that we are transitioning out. no talk about winning any longer.

there is no such thing in his mind as victory in afghanistan any longer. he has shifted from the war we have to win to transitioning, which is a polite, diplomatic way of saying where is the exit sign, i have got to get out of this place? >> you can watch this program in its entirety and any of our "washington journal" programs online at c-span.org /videolibrary. join us on monday for another "washington journal." then, david owens of the edison electric institute will talk about the recent blackout in india that left 600 million people without power. he will also offer analysis of the united state electrical grid. we will look at the role of private commercial space-flight companies inwith nasa. companies inwith nasa.