arslan. host: good morning, and welcome to "washington journal," on this thursday, august 16, 2012. president obama is at the white house today holding meetings with secretary of state hillary clinton and that later, secretary of the treasury tim geithner. the republican national committee has announced more speakers at the convention, including senator kelly ayotte, louisiana gov. bobby jindal. here's a look at the first

convention. the gop takes things off on august 27. we will bring you live coverage of the convention, events, and programming surrounding the convention. a new poll looks at the 40% of americans who do not plan to vote in november bi. it asks on likely voters about their opinions and their reasons for skipping voting. we would like to hear what you think about this, and if you are planning not to vote, give us a call. you can also reach us online -- send us your tweets @cspanwj. it can also e-mail

journal@cspan.org. no-votes -- 90 million people who could vote in november but mostly it won't. they are fed up and dissolution. they could turn 8 to close to call race into a landslide for president obama, but by definition they probably won't. "a nationwide poll of people who are eligible to vote but not likely to do so finds that the stay-at-home americans back obama's reelection over republican mitt romney by more than it used-one. -- more than 2-1. even so, they said a range of reasons for saying they one vote or saying that the odds are no better than that they will. their vote does not really matter and nothing will get done any way." let's talk to the director of

suffolk university's political center. he joins us by phone this morning. good morning. guest: good morning. thanks for having me. host: why are these people as saying they are not going to vote? guest: it is a combination of reasons. we pulled -- polled unregistered citizens and many who were registered but just said they were not voting. and registered voters said things like "i have no time, i'm too busy," "my vote is not matter," "i am not interested in politics stock was among those who were registered, their answers were somewhat similar. candidate,"e either and 12% "my vote does not matter," 12%.

this was an open-ended question, so the people who responded, these were their own words, they created their own categories. host: and not voting as a silent statement? guest: i think i would agree with that. many of the questions around voting, people were fairly astute on did we ask the question, do you think that the process of the voting is easy and quick or difficult and more involved? nearly 2/3 of respondents said it is easy and quick. it is not a process issue. these are people who understand that i.t. is easy to register to vote, they understand that process isn't that complicated. but their disdain for politics and the economy and has taken a toll on many of these respondents -- 19% of the respondents in our sample were

unemployed, over double what the reported unemployment rate is. these people are injured by the political process and the economy. host: the on likely voters polled supported president obama over mitt romney more than a two-one. what did the campaigns do with this information? guest: not sure. the obama campaign -- is survey has kind of identified a treasure trove of supporters. as you say, he is winning 2-1. people, when we asked if they like barack obama, they say they why kim and disliked mitt romney. it is not an issue of persuasion. these people are pretty much predisposed to voting for obama. but what is trumping it is, again, so many other factors. so much of the negativity, such that even though they kind of

like barack obama, they are still disillusioned so much and injured a sum much by the process and the economy that they are not going to vote. host: many of these voters called politics corrupt, and only 39% could correctly named vice president, joe biden. give us a snapshot of who these people are. guest: these people are younger, they are lower income than the general population, slightly higher minority, slightly less educated than the general population, and a little bit more religious. the 39% biden number was surprising, because a pew story had it low, but above what we're showing. it reinforces what we believe is the disconnect here. there was also a component in

the poll that i think did not get a lot of mention, and that is the desire for a third-party, or multiple parties. 53% of respondents said they were not happy with the democratic and republican parties to represent the views of america. 53% are basically saying that they want a third-party or multiple parties in one of the questions that we asked. you can see that there is a desire for something else. host: 7% said seeing hillary clinton's name on the democratic ticket as vice president would make a difference. guest: this is an unbelievable finding. we asked the question, after they basically gone through half the survey -- is there anyone who, if they were to announce for president or, as you say, be

on the presidential ticket, there is a correlation there -- who would motivate you to get out and vote? 7% said hillary clinton. she was by far the top choice. most people cannot think of them right off the bat. -- most people could not think of by name right off the bat. i think that is very telling. what it is suggesting is that this poll is basically examining those people who were "in the political woodwork." they are not going to come out of the political work. their behavior is defined as non-voting. but they are saying that if she were on the ticket, if she were a candidate, they would come out of the woodwork and a vote for her specifically. one respondent who was cited in the "usa today" expos a of the individual respondents who were interviewed, she said, "i would

not only vote for hillary clinton, i would be out there and the first one in line at the polls." host: you mentioned it that they were paid disposed not to vote, but what is the pattern? our they people who voted in the past? guest: some have, some haven't. 2/3 indicated that they voted in 2008. what we found is that there is a disproportionate amount of people in our sample who are democrats. on the surface, you may think, that is a democratic poll, but it is actually the reverse. what that is saying is that people who are out of the voting by are disproportionately more democratic than republican. the good news at 4 barack obama is that there are people here who could make a difference. the bad news is that there is a disproportionate amount people who are registered democrats versus recorded in this bull --

who are registered democrats versus registered republicans recorded in this poll. host: in "the baltimore sun," " the pennsylvania border id law survives legal challenge." how did the respondents talk about that? word they concerned about being disenfranchised at the polls? guest: you would think so, they or not. 3/4 of the people said that it was a good idea to show identification when voting. i don't think it they were aware of some of the issues that bubbled up in different states and in different counties across the country with people being disenfranchised.

but conceptually, these respondents -- again, they don't see a structural issue with registering to vote or even with of order id law. they were overwhelmingly supporting voter id. we now it is a behaviorial item that is holding people back, not a logistical one. host: we are talking about a new poll that suffolk university did in collaboration with "usa today" looking at and likely voters. thanks for joining us this morning. .uest: my pleasure host: to you plan to vote or not? why? larry in mississippi. caller: i will definitely be voting. host: have you voted in the past? caller: yes, i have. host: what do you say to these 90 million americans were not likely to vote? caller: it is all in how you ask

the question. when you show the republicans saying -- they put these suppression laws to keep people from voting, to keep minorities from voting, i wonder what they would say about that. if they asked the question, "what you think about the laws republicans passed to suppress minority votes," i wonder what that would be. you have a nice day, ma'am. host: james in indianapolis. caller: good morning. i voted since i was 18 years old. government was my favorite class in high school. i was involved in the political process. i registered people to vote.

the popularity vote did not dictate who was president, and in the electoral college, in florida, the president appointed it was the deciding factor. -- presidential candidate was the deciding factor. i see the dynamics in which romney could possibly win in this election. the latino community, might have a community, the elderly community -- i think the media is try to make this election "what it should be," because they are fixing it to be like 2000. host: if you would like to call --

let's look at some comments that have come in on our facebook page. lesley is our next caller in maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: we can. a rush songre is eigh that says "if you don't vote, you have made a choice." i am an african-american woman. i was convinced by a hair stylist when i was young to vote for that reason, i think that is a good reason. there you go.

host: leslie, do you have friends or family members to try to encourage you to vote just like members of your hair salon did for you? caller: no, they are all voters. host: harry. caller: i don't plan to vote, because our government, our congress and a present isn't working. -- and our president isn't working. it is in crisis mode in terms of their unwillingness to solve the nation's problems. i am concerned, i've given up on both of the bodies. they just seem to be fighting over who is going to get the goodies and, moreover, money in politics, and the financial industry and the corporate money and the rich people have taken over the government. we have to get some new arrangements, because the way it

works now, neither of these guys are going to solve our problems. neither the current president -- anybody who thinks the current president or romney are going to solve our problems ought to forget about it. at the country is in trouble and at the current setup isn't working. host: what would change her mind, harry? caller: nothing. this is long-term, polarization has gotten worse, and the future of america -- flat wages for the next 30 years -- for the last 30 years -- we are in trouble. unless there is major transformational change, this country is doomed. host: let me ask you one more thing before you go. would it bother you letting other people elect the president? caller: well, i am not deciding

what other people do. i'm deciding what i can do. i'm retired and i have had time to read about this and think about it. we are in very serious trouble, and the government ruling class in america is failing us, and we got to do something about it. host: let's look at this "usa today"/suffolk university poll. monty tweets in -- houston, texas. otis is a voter. caller: i'm calling in regards to the voter i.d. law. host: ok. caller: what gets me is that

they have to have id even in mexico, and that is a court ruled country. -- and that is a third world country. the blacks are being brainwashed by the obama administration and eric holder, and it is really ridiculous. instead of trying to enforce a voter laws, they art looking like they are trying to encourage fraud. i will be glad to vote and get barack obama out of the white house, because he is taking this country down the drain. host: let's look at this question of a voter i.d. laws. "pennsylvania border id law survives legal challenge." "the wall street journal"-"a pennsylvania judge declined to

take down the voter id law, saying obama's would likely fail to show the law violates the state's constitution. opponents of the republican- backed measure to said they plans to file an appeal on thursday to the state supreme court. legal experts say a it is unclear if an appeal would be ruled on before the november election. democrats in this state say they believes the law would disproportionately impact poor urban voters and others likely to vote for president barack obama and other democrats. state republicans say that the law is intended to prevent voter fraud." here is some op-ed opinion weighing in on this. "the wall street journal" -- "a voter id victory." with a different opinion, "the new york times" -- "a missed

chance to reject voting barriers." we will talk more about this in the program this morning. we are asking today, why don't people vote? what is it that keeps you away from the polls? patricia in wisconsin, an unlikely voter. good morning. caller: i would never vote for a republican because the republicans are strictly for the rich. i cannot vote for obama because of his morals. host: does the vp selection on the ticket make any difference? caller: yes. host: and so when you look at vice president joe biden, congressman paul ryan, does that impact you at all? caller: all, i would never vote for ryan.

he is probably a nice young man, but he is just totally for the rich. but if mrs. clinton was on, yes, i would. host: how come? caller: because i was for mrs. clinton from the beginning. i was never for obama. host: and so if she were on the ticket with president obama, you think of supporting that? caller: yes. host: ok. jim tweets in -- ken, and likely voter in harrisburg, pennsylvania. we have just been talking about yours -- unlikely voter in harrisburg, pennsylvania. we've just been talking about your state and the voter i.d. law. caller: the voter i.d. law -- in a way, i supported, in a way i don't. do they really need a photo id

to confirm that? some id should be required, but does it have to be a photograph? host: why are you an unlikely voter? caller: it seems like the truth and honesty is gone from the political arena. sensation is all that comes in. marks on chs re ains. why a dozen the media focus on the substance of what is affecting the country at sensationalism? -- what is affecting the country instead of looking at sensationalism? it is polarizing the country. there is no basic reason other than personality as to why they are not voting for that person. i just don't see any gain in it. host: all right, let's go to

texas. melinda is a voter. caller: hi. i was just calling to say that i just think that anyone that doesn't vote, and they see the decline in this country, i just don't understand why we would not vote. it is just sad. we have got to get someone else in there that can do the job, and obama is just not cutting it. host: you heard from callers this morning who feel like money is planning to much of a role in politics and that candidates don't speak to them and the system is too big. does any that make sense to you? caller: i think there is too much money involved in, way too much, but i think we need to cut a whole lot of things out of the white house. they cannot get along, they cannot come to any agreement on anything. it is just sad.

we have to have a president that can pull everything together. obama just cannot. host: we will be talking about the presidency and proposals to fix the presidency with dan schnur later on this morning. he is the founder of no labels. we will talk about the presidency in an of itself and how that position can be made better. here is some facebook comments coming in. and june says, "we get the government that we deserve it." you can join that conversation on facebook by looking for c- span. october 3, a debate on domestic

policy at the university of denver. in mid-october on the 16th, foreign and domestic topics at hofstra university in new york. october 22, foreign policy, lynn university in florida. the presidential debate calendar. to these issues affect your vote? do they affect what you decide and whether you go to the polls? leigh in airline. -- in maryland. caller: hi. i am in a non-battleground state. might state's electoral votes are already going to go to my candidate anyway. on the other hand, we get the same saturation bombing of depressing ads from both candidates. when it comes down to going to the polls, i will have to really pull myself together and

remember the suffragettes who struggle and i some cases died so that i could vote. i look at my husband as a white man and say, "gee, you don't have to vote, but i think i do." i was not included in the original plan. but to tell the truth, i will have to push myself. the whole thing is so dreary. host: when it comes to local politics, your local house seat as well as the presidency? caller: well, again, it is a non-battleground state. it is completely in the tank for my party. i guess i really should, and i guess when you come down to it, i guess i will, but it is like getting a flu shot. i cannot feel too happy about it or interested in. host: here is a tweet from rick.

ed, birmingham alabama, a voter. caller: good morning. the people who said they are not going to vote, they need to have their heads examined. this is birmingham, alabama that i am comincalling from, and if people don't know the issues about voting rights, the blood that was shed, everybody in america needs to get out and vote. it is not about who you vote for, it is about voting. african-americans calling on this program and saying they are not going to vote -- these young people have to understand that african-americans had to count jellybeans and enjoy o -- jellybeans in a jar. african-americans who think about not voting, they need to have their heads examined. a mother took the children to

voter -- my mother took the children to voter registration when they turned 18 years old. african-americans, please get real. host: do you still go with family members to vote, and how to you talk to young people in your life about getting out there? caller: we live in different states, but all of my family members vote. i live in alabama, i have relatives in michigan, relatives in maryland, relatives in georgia, but we all vote. and i talked to young people. i go to ihop and i asked a young waitress, are you a registered voter? "yes, i am, i registered in 2008 and i will be devoting this time." please, race to the vote. african-americans, read your

history and vote. host: let's hear from an unlikely voter, stephen. what do you think about what ed just said? caller: he sounded very passionate, and that was admirable. i just got out of the military. this upcoming election -- i really respect what that last caller was saying, but unfortunately, it really does matter who you vote for. but nowadays, people are starting to wake up to all the false flags and staged events, and like you spoke on earlier, all the money and where the money is going and where the tax money is going. you know what? there is a lot of patriots out there that of this country and were raised, especially my generation -- i am a 23 -- we were raised to stand up for our

country and shed blood. in order to take down those elites, we will have to sacrifice some of this. host: i don't understand what you are calling for. an armed revolution or something? caller: we can sit down and do nothing and let the elites take over. i'm not for violence. what we could do, my favorite, is fight for our info war and educate as many people as possible and let them go behind the scenes. i am a follower of alex jones. i don't know if you follow that as well but i just want to put in my 2 cents. i love your show. host: clyde in cincinnati. caller: hello. i just wanted to say to all the people, please vote.

i lost a good friend of mine back in the days when we were marching for the right to vote. head injury and died in a hospital trying to get the right to vote. we need to vote. it does not matter who you vote for. i don't understand black people -- i am african-american -- who voted yes to their interests. if you are poor and you need assistance, why would you vote republican? it does not make sense. host: how to talk to young people, since you were alive during the civil rights struggle -- how do you talk to young people about getting out to vote? do you encourage family members? caller: all my family members vote. you cannot be in my famil andy

-- in my family without voting. what i do with young people as i go back to the days of civil rights and even back before then and try to get young african-american men mostly to see how they can make a difference in this country by voting. most of them are afraid to go to the polls because they here that if they had a felony on the record, they will be arrested if they goes to vote. people are spreading this around. i have to tell them, no, you are not going to go to jail if you go to vote. host: let's take a look at the profile "usa today" creates. "only 1/3 call their household finance is good or excellent. close to half say their annual

household income is less than $60,000 a year. nearly six in 10 have no more than a high-school diploma." here is something coming in to us by e-mail. next up is john in washington state, unlikely voters. caller: how are you doing today? host: good, how were you? caller: pretty good. in going to pass the voting this election. we should have cdc camps like under roosevelt and train people to mind the precious metals we have in federal lands and stored them away and sell them on market except for gold and silver and put them in fort knox.

i think you ought to pass a national law that says no one has the right to charge more than 60% interest a year -- more than 16% interest on money. host: genie is a voter. caller: good morning. host: what you think of this news that 90 million americans may not vote? caller: i think it is disgraceful. i will be voting. i wish we had a more choices. i like the idea of having business people in government. we need to that. lawyers, doctors, politicians, like politicians -- life politicians don't necessarily a good strong foundation in financing. but what i don't understand is all of the disagreement at all of the conflict about voter i.d. i cannot go to a doctor or hospital without showing a photo

id. what are people so concerned about? they have to have a photo id somewhere along the way. host: jeannie is calling from florida. let's look at a florida house race. this develop yesterday. in a tea party versus tea party race, "stearns lose his primary. cliff stearns seem to have his credentials lined up. he was endorsed by two tea party favorites, michele bachmann and paul ryan, and belongs to the house key party caucus. he has led investigations into solyndra and planned parenthood , two entities conservatives love to hate, and he was backed by the national right to life, u.s. chamber of commerce, and the american conservative union. all that was not enough to

persuade republican voters in the sunshine state's north that he was a genuine conservative. political upstart ted yoho surprisingly edged out mr. stearns by slightly more than 800 votes, about one percentage point." here is the headline in "the miami herald," "longtime congressman beaten by a horse doctor." "ted yoho is a veterinarian with scant political experience." we are seeing absentee ballots come into play this campaign in 2012. "absentee ballots play an outsized role in tuesday's primary elections, in some cases providing the margin between victory and defeat." a couple of other stories in the news locally.

let's look at this one. "illegal immigrants are flocking to a new youth program." the president announced the a couple of months ago, but it just went into effect and applications became available yesterday. "tens of thousands of young illegal immigrants across the country applied yesterday to a program that could allow them to remain in the country and work legally. in chicago, more than 10,000 people from navy pier to take part in an application workshop held by the illinois coalition for immigrant and refugee rights. in l.a., lines began forming at 5:00 a.m. outside the offices of another organization where more than 100 volunteers, including attorneys, were on hand to help applicants fill out forms." there are other moments like that captured in the papers this morning. here is the story right here in washington, d.c. a guard for a conservative group

was shot yesterday. you can see some images of officials and washington police outside the family research council. there was a shooting in the lobby yesterday morning. the incident is being investigated as a possible hate crime or possible domestic terrorism because of the organization's conservative views. the man with the gun walked into the offices of the family research council "and fired on a security guard who confronted him in what is being investigated as a possible hate crime or act of domestic terrorism. the guard was set in the arand taken to an area hospital to he was in stable condition. the gunman was identified as floyd corkins of herndon." we will take a look at other stories in the news today. here is one more -- "needed to

donate on the run?" asks "the washington post." "fec okays cell phones text." "the federal election commission announced wednesday that it approved a legal guidance that will allow small political donations to be added to cell phone bills run a campaign supporter cents a specific text message. republican and democratic firms would comply with the complex requirements of campaign finance law." we're talking about campaign 2012 and your vote this morning, and why on likely voters choose not to go to the polls. let's go to silver spring, maryland and hear from ed. are you planning to vote? caller: i am planning. i would just take to see the republicans win. -- hate to see the republicans

win. host: do you have a history of voting and your family? have you voted in the past? caller: i voted almost every time. my vote changes considerably depending on who is running. host: here is a headline in "usa today." bill joins us from hershey, pennsylvania. you are an unlikely voter. how come? caller: i have never missed a vote since 1958, but i been very cynical about politics. the self-serving, self centered politicians is just beyond

belief. it is just so transparent that these people called to serve the little people -- they will do anything to get elected. then they follow the special interests and follow only the party line and the agenda and make them richer. then they expect to have these cushy jobs for life, and how much longer will we allow these millionaire wires to pull us down and make us their servants? it just seems ridiculous that no matter who you vote for, democratic or republican, they are all from the same cloth. host: what would it take to change your opinion? caller: looking for an honest man -- i would like to have one come out and tell the truth for once. i cannot believe this voter i.d. law.

i am an independent, but republicans say, "well, we have voter id" -- there has not been one case of fraud in pennsylvania in 100 years. and they come up with this? how transparent do they have to be? host: some would say that that would motivate pennsylvanians you can vote even more to make divorces her. -- make their voices heard. caller: well, i am 75, and i expect to live forever, but it seems that no matter who i vote for, you get the same person. host: here is a message on facebook -- "not much difference between the two corporate-endorsed candidates." c-span plans to be there gavel- to-gavel in tampa and charlotte

in just a couple of weeks. new jersey. john is a voter. caller: hello there. i am going to vote. i'm a vietnam veteran. i recall as a young man when i was in war, as a principle, you fought for freedom and your mind as an 18-year-old and the right to vote. i think today that we take too much for granted, the freedoms and rights that were fought for us, and particularly, i think we need to start learning more in primary elections. people needed to turn out and make their voice heard. and we have an very clear distinction between the parties this time. i would encourage everyone to do whatever takes to get to the polls and vote.

i think the economics today disenfranchises everyone, because capitalism does not seem to have any patriotism in. money today can be invested overseas and not returned back to this country. the big money people make money on both sides of the ocean, outsourcing and insourcing become one and the same for the very wealthy, and it is just disheartening for the average guy trying to make a good living. they lose interest. we need to fix some of that and get good paying jobs in america and that will reinvigorate the voting base. host: here is an e-mail from seattle. that is from dw. tony tweets in --

coming up later on "washington journal," we will be talking about the presidency and how to fix it with dan schnur of no labels. he is the co-founder of that. later on, we will look at a for- profit colleges, and we will talk about the self-employed. you can catch our coverage of the camconventions. the gop in tampa on august 27, and the democrats start in charlotte on september 4. thanks for all your calls. we will be right back.

>> this weekend on "after words," john fund, "national review" columnist, and at scholar with the heritage foundation talks about fraud in the election system. >> there is a whole bunch of things you have to do to make sure you have an election with integrity, and that everyone is confident that the person with the most votes is declared the winner. >> sunday, kirsten grind talks about the largest bank failure in american history, the collapse of washington mutual. part of booktv weekend on the c- span2. >> which is more important, wealth or honor? >> honor. >> it is not, as set by the

victors four years ago, the economy, stupid. it is the kind of nation we are, whether we possess the will and determination to deal with questions, including economic questions but certainly not limited to them. all things to not flow from wealth or poverty. i know this firsthand, and so do you. all things flow from doing what is right. [applause] >> look at what has happened. we have the lowest rates of unemployment, inflation, and home mortgages in 28 years. [applause] look at what's happened. 10 million new jobs, over half of them high-wage jobs. 10 million workers getting the blaze they deserve with the minimum wage law. -- riase they to serve with the minimum wage law. >> we are on the countdown to

this year's convention. gavel-to-gavel coverage of the democratic and republican conventions live on c-span, c- span radio, and streamed online on c-span.org, all starting monday, august 27. "washington journal" continues. host: dan schnur is the co- founder of no labels. your organization has been going through the branches of government in washington and looking for ways you think they can be improved on. what is wrong with the presidency? guest: first of all, i want to make it clear to your viewers that we are not targeting this president or any other individual was held the office. rather, the structure of the presidency and the executive branch. we think it could stand some reforms, just as we think congress could stand some reforms also. we do not come at this unnecessarily from the left or the right. what we want to see is government functioning more effectively than it currently

does. what that means is a lot of things, " what it means in particular is getting the parties to work together more effectively, getting the leaders of both parties to engage in more ongoing conversations with the american people. we have a multi point plan, which i will shamelessly plug now, called "make the presidency work." it has outlined several reforms, and it is accompanied by "make congress work," which i mentioned earlier. thank you very much. host: here is "make congress work." guest: there are several things we're proposing that we think can bridge the gap that develop in washington between the leaders of the parties and the branches. number one, we think it is important for there to be quarterly, bipartisan leadership meetings. regardless of the political circumstances or whether the president is up or down, every three months, the president, he or she, republican or democrat, ought to be required to get

together with the leaders of both parties to make sure that legitimate conversation takes place across party lines. host: would those be public? guest: the members and the president would certainly appear in public before and after the meeting. we think they deserve some privacy. the most important thing in our mind, libby, is making sure this conversation takes place at all, because under this president and those of the other party, wants if not years go by before a substantive conversation between leaders of a party and leaders of the other. we think that is unfortunate and needs to change. host: one of the ideas no labels has is having question time like in the uk "back in 2010, president obama attended a house republican retreat to debate the health- care law before a few hours at least, we saw our leaders truly

engaged each other and we've not seen anything like its sense." guest: one of the hallmarks of the british system is that the prime minister visits parliament on a regular basis. we think that eight similar leave regularly scheduled public exchange between the president and congress would be very beneficial not necessarily with a partisan advantage, but for the american people, who want to see their elected leaders engaged in honest, a scripted dialogue. h -- unscripted dialogue. host: how do you keep that from becoming political points, political issues fly back and forth, essentially grandstanding before the public? guest: we think that if this takes place on a regular basis, instead of being a super bowl- confrontation-type event, if it is on a regular basis, the members will recognize that their constituents want to see a more forthright conversation and don't want to just see the

javelin throwing that takes the place of a recent conversation in washington. by the way, libby, as important as it is for the president to talk to congress, we think that he or she should talk more frequently to the american people also. we are advocating for the president told a monthly news conferences, every 30 days, i poll numbers, local bombers, it doesn't matter. every 30 days -- high poll numbers, low poll numbers, it doesn't matter. every 30 days, all the net with the press corps, and the more often that takes place between the president and congress and the president and the people congress represents, the more likely we are to bridge the partisan divides that have taken over washington. host: dan schnur is the co- founder of no labels. if you would like to join the conversation --

let's run through a couple more things that no labels is calling for. one is fast-track legislative authority. why is that significant? guest: i am so glad you brought that up. as many of your viewers know, even critical, well reasoned legislation can be bogged down in the process leading congress. the president has the authorities when it relates to trade agreements to fast-track that legislation -- in other words, congress can not attach any amendments or slow down the process. they simply have to vote up or down. we think that a president, democrat or republican, ought to have a broader fast-track authority. what they want to be able to do twice every year is to say that this legislation is so important that i want congress to vote up or down on it. no stalling, no killing it with amendments. you have to say yes or no great

ever present in the site for him or herself, whether it is jobs legislation, environmental production, criminal justice, the president can say that this is so important that we cannot afford to wait. congress, you say yes or no. host: two other ideas are making parties pay for presidential fundraising, but also using the line item veto, but with a twist. guest: let's come back to line item veto and a second, because the first of the two he raised sends a powerful message to the people did president obama, like president reagan and pleasant clinton before him, traveled very frequently to raise money for his reelection campaign. what is standard operating procedure for both parties is to attack on a single official event along with a series of campaign fund-raisers said that the american taxpayers can pay for the cost of air force one and secret service and all the other attendant costs it takes to move the president around the

country. we don't think that is fair. that is an unfair cost imposed on the american taxpayer. what we're proposing is that any political activity takes place during presidential travel, the president's party, the democratic national committee or the republican national committee, is going forced to incur those costs. it is perfectly legitimate, but the american taxpayer should not be forced to pay for it. host: and a line-item veto? guest: it has been judged by the courts that the president should not have the ability to strike a very specific language from legislation, but through this process, we think that we can give the president a bit of a scalpel rather than a sledgehammer to move legislation to the goals of his overall agenda. one other quick point, libby. i mentioned at the beginning that in addition to making the

presidency work, no labels also has a process called "making congress work." i know you talked to one of my colleagues about that last week, but it is worth reminding viewers that we target these reforms toward both branches of government, and we have a multi. reform for congress as well -- multipoint reform for congress as well, that if congress does not fulfill its responsibility to pass the budget on an annual basis, it does not get paid. we had several members of congress saying they support this. for voters or non-voters who are increasingly disgusted with congress, taking a little bit apart in knowing that there are dozens and dozens of members of congress and both bodies who are willing to support legislation that would require them to give up pay if a budget is not passed. and your viewers can get the full list of those members of

congress on our website, no labels.org. host: antoinette in ohio. caller: i am so glad i got out. -- got up. i think more emphasis should be put on the economy. this country is in deep trouble. anytime you owe $16 trillion to another country, i don't see how we can even survive like that. more emphasis should be put on this problem. and why we have obama with all his promises and promises and no results, more debt. guest: boy, antoinette, i am so glad you asked that question, and, libby, we're lucky we got

her on the air right away. we've been talking about the reforms with been proposing in almost an abstract way, and what antoinette did is a great service in reminding us that these are not abstractions. there is a real-world impact of the paralysis on capitol hill and in washington, d.c. what concerns our members so much, and hundreds of thousands of members, liberal and conservative across the country, is this oncoming fiscal apocalypse that is likely to hit next year. the reason we are proposing these reforms, the reason we want a more bipartisan structure in congress, the reason we want the president and congressional leaders talking to other more frequently, one of the masons for that is so that our electoral leaders -- one of the reasons for that is so that our elector leaders can take on the challenges that antoinette is talking about. we are working very hard -- we are gathering in new york city

to ask congress to come together to take on the nation's challenges. antoinette, i am so glad you raised that question, because it reminded us that these reforms are designed to encourage principle the conservatives and principal the liberals not to abandon their ideological principles, but to find ways to work together across party lines and deal with the economic and fiscal challenges that antoinette is talking about. host: "at the miami herald and" is talking today about swing states and economic swings. "how will this affect the presidential election?" looking at states like colorado, florida, nevada, and virginia. we're talking with dan schnur, co-founder of no labels'

campaign, "how to fix the presidency." hi, scott. caller: thanks for having me on line. i really appreciate your ideas and things like what this group is doing. however, i would say the line item veto has been part of his the democratic line for a long time. our values were shaped by the depression and the drought. i do not mind labels. i think they are ok. my concern is that last summer, we have democrats willing to say, we will cut. we will find other sources of revenue. republican says no. we have signed a pledge to grover norquist. we are not

doing anything with taxation. it is either cut or nothing. i do not know if there is going to be middle ground or if there is one side who has pledged allegiance to a third-party organization that is on elected that has values -- if we had those things during the be the b-2, we would not have had world war ii. -- during world war ii, we would not have had world war ii. guest: we believe people should have strong ideological principles. this is not an organization for the metal. we have democrats and top republicans who like those labels. as proud as they are of their

partisan and ideological labels, and understand the importance of being able to put those labels the size in order to work together to deal with the types of public policy challenges the nation is facing. scott also raises an important point about pledges. if we have a suggestion that no member of congress take any place other than the place of office, whether it is republicans taking no taxes pledge or the democrats. an excellent point was raised, the inability of the parties to get to be concealing. most of the authority of reporting i have seen suggests that both president obama and speaker boehner were both pulled

back by the basis of their respective parties. he kind -- the bases their parties. host: a lot of the elements to make the presidency work -- what about the lead up to the campaign season? we talked about presidential fund-raising. ron reis from colorado and says, how loud a message would it have been for a party not to run negative as? -- negative ads? guest: it sounds like i am continuing to change the subject back to making congress work. we are really of ideas that we talked about in the context of

congress. we talked about forbidding-than the-for being negative bank has to be run by -- forbidding native as to be run by opponents -- negative ads to be run by congressional campaigns. the romney and the obama campaigns spend a lot more time and energy going negative and they have in the past. they need a negative message to rev up the troops. that is what both campaigns are doing. more and more voters take a broader, more reason to look at

the political field at the presidential level and the congressional level. when you have more voters more open-minded about their choices, it creates is -- creates more of a dis unincentive to go negative. -- disincentive to go negative. caller: i like what you are saying. its towns like europe. my main thing is, how do you compete against money? you, yourself asserted that there was an nbc poll and these polls are conducted by the same media outlets that are controlled by corporations, nbc, abc, fox news network. we all know that. those people are controlled by

corporations. the same people who do not want tax incentive not want people to be able to throw him off -- to control the results. we just half republicans give a man a rubber stamp, two un fundy's wars, -- unfunded wars. you guys do not bring it up. they are sitting here -- we have an economy that has been going crazy for a long time. we have a vice presidential pick who did not have a budget plan when george bush was in power. host: and e-mail came in and said, the 1 ft. congress to become a rubber stamp for the

president --do you want congress to become a rubber stamp for the president? the president already has too much power. guest: we think that by giving the congress, not unlimited fast track authority, but letting the president of the united states have half two bills that congress can and should vote on up or down is an effective way of giving the present tools without changing the balance of power. similarly, we want to streamline the appointments process to make it easier for a president to put men and women in place in her administration. congress recently voted to streamline that process, giving

up a little bit of their authority, recognizing the need to do so to make the administration work effectively. on the flip side, if the president were willing to come to congress requesting an answer session of the type we talked about earlier, that ships -- shifts authority back in the other direction. we are not looking to offset the balance of power between branches of government. we want both branches to do the jobs they were elected to do. host: dan schnur, co-founder of no labels was director of communications for the 2000 presidential bid of john mccain. other experience and background includes a bipartisan statewide organization devoted to making face more responsive to voters.

he is an adviser to the hill and blending case foundation. no labels polled 1100 registered voters last month and it showed that 86% of respondents said the effectiveness of the presidency could be improved with the rights reform. talking about ways to improve the presidency with dan schnur. jason, a republican is up next. calm i would like to make a comment on the gentleman who said -- caller: i would like to make a comment on the gentleman who said he liked labels. instead of taking care of our the veterans benefits or our social security or medicare, it

seems the the government likes to use labels to destroy our liberty. on top of that, pakistan and saudi arabia were directly involved with 9/11. that hurts my feelings. thank you. guest: jason has strong frustrations about the way government does or does not address issues that are of most concern for him. we talked about the debt limit on the first call. i think we can use jason's colorado to broaden the conversation. -- call to broaden the conversation. whatever your top priority is, you have every right to be frustrated. we encourage you to look at our proposals. once you do, you would agree that as people view scientists showed, -- the poll you cited

showed, people want government to do the right thing. we have a process in place to do that. easier for congress to take on policy changes you talked about -- processes we have in place to do that make it easier to take on the policy changes you talked about. most of the proposals we are talking about do not require constitutional change. they do not required statutory changes or new laws to be changed. congress and the president can decide without passing new bills to implement these kinds of reforms. it's just take a new law to require a present to hold monthly news conferences. it does not take a new law for congress to set a new calendar.

we propose that congress spend three weeks in washington doing the people's business and then go home for one week and spend time with their constituents. this is just common sense. host: here is a poll conducted last month. 93% of respondents agreed that regular meetings between the president and congress should occur even if they are between opposing parties. fund raising activity should be paid in full. a 2% say the president should be given authority to remove individual provisions from a bill and resubmit them for a vote set up for down to congress. -- a vote up or down for congress.

also on the list are regular meetings for congressional leaders. guest: one of those things of particular importance is having nonpartisan accounting of the nation's fiscal situation presented to congress and the president on a regular basis. but and and having them work on their own numbers, budgetary information of both sides can use in the faith. it would go a long way to a bridging the gap that exists between the two parties. host: mike is an independent. good morning. caller: how you expect for the president to get anything done when on the first night of his inauguration, republicans were

at undisclosed locations planning to take down the president. they will not vote on their own bill if he is for it. how do you expect the president to give anything done? guest: that is that flee the point. -- that is exactly point. we are trying to address the poisonous, hyper partisan atmosphere that exists in washington in both parties, where both sides decided to shoot first and ask questions later, when both sides automatically assume the worst of the other party rather than looking for common ground. we think regular meetings between the two sides of congress and to the meetings between congress and the president can lower the volume

to some degree and to make it less likely that on a knee-jerk basis neither republicans or democrats will attack the other side and they will take an extra minute for reasons conversation. maria in's hear from new jersey. caller: i think we have the worst parts of a parliamentary system. in australia, there is a lot of talk and mocking of each other. we have a presidential campaign that is centered on gaffs and mocking each other. washington said the death of our country would be too much adherence to parties. we need a no confidence vote. we have no address of grievances

here. we are being sold down the river by international corporations. our borders are unprotected. we have illegals coming and being given things where they did not pay their dues. no one is seeking to impeach the president for his executive orders. i think what we need to do short of a complete revolution is to have some way for the general public to voice an incredible lack of confidence in the people up for election now. host: when you watch the question time from the british parliament, you did not find it to be a productive exchange. caller: i think it is a total farce. host: let's get a response on her comments and the belief that americans should have their voices heard. guest: most important is that

employers -- is that americans do have a way of addressing their dissatisfaction with their elected leaders. it is the next election. one of the biggest problems that exist with washington is that the most thoughtful voice in politics tend to be those that discourage cooperation across party lines. one principal liberal or conservative in congress decides they want to work with another party has allowed and strident voices discouraging that cooperation. they need to say working together is not a bad thing. it is a good thing. every two here's our four years or six years, americans do have a -- every two years or six or that years, americans do have a voice.

they are hearing from people who understand that in order for the country to take on public policy changes, people need to work together. we think our policies can help congress accomplish those things. at the risk of being totally shameless, they can find it at that no labels -- at nolabels.org. host: 90 million americans may not vote in november because they feel disenfranchised when they are making a silent protest. jessica will to our facebook page and said the problem is apathy and people wonder why our country is a mess. they do not have a reason to complain later, but they will anyway. here is the headline from usa today. the no vote. 90 million americans may not

vote in november. it could be a landslide for president obama. but it probably will not be. they look into why these people choose not to vote. do you think your reforms could affect these people? guest: i do not necessarily agree with the viewer who wrote in suggesting the problems with people not voting his 1 phase in apathy. i teach at the university of -- not voting is apathy. i teach at the university of california at berkeley. young people who vote in such young numbers volunteered their time in their community in higher numbers than -- higher numbers than any generation in recent american history. it is not because they cannot

hear. they look at a political system that they think is broken. they think if they want to make a difference, rather than going out to vote, fe would rather clean up a park for healthy kids learn how to read or bring meals to shut ins. we have to get across to young people that volunteering is a noble activity, but if you want to make change happen, you make it at the ballot box. one of our primary goals is demonstrating to the american people that it does not have to be black and white. it doesn't have to be a hyperpolarized filler atmosphere. people in both parties can work together. we can seek voter participation go up in a significant way -- c. voter participation go up in a significant way. -- see voter participation go up

in a significant way. caller: i think there are some labels that are needed. there are labels that revolve around the intangibles. one of the things that was 10th civilizations that have is the idea -- that western civilizations have had is the idea of fair rich. we do not have man like churchill or roosevelt. -- western civilizations have had the idea of courage. barack obama sounded like a leader, but once he got into office, he was anything but a leader. i remember working at fedex. fred smith had intend to those of a leader and people would get behind him and say, we are behind you. whatever it takes to get the job done, we will do it. when the company started, people

were willing to pay for the fuel in the trucks because there was not enough money to go around. i think we are missing that. it is not a brothel, for sure. i believe that that is not barack obama for sure. mitt romney is an unknown quantity. if you look at the democrats, there is something in their eyes that is telling me -- david axelrod had the look of a man like a deer in headlights. we do not need that. we need someone who steps up and says, here is the baton. guest: he's been a lot of time on c-span talking about whether obama or rounding is an effective leader. i will leave that for those conversations.

i teach politics and communications and 90 k class in leadership. one of the things we try to get across to our -- i teach politics and communications and i teach a class in leadership. chief executives of both parties face the problem of, even when they tried to leave, they are dealing with a system that is so polarized that members of the legislative body make it impossible to get anything done. oh, unlike clinton and bush, like challenges -- ohobama, bush and clinton face challenges. we can create an environment where leaders can flourish,

where men and women who actually wants to lead can bring their ideological principles to washington and want to work together with people to get something done. we want to make easier for them to do it. host: and e-mail says, why haven't you mentioned the other parties like the green party? guest: they represent the overwhelming majority -- the democrats and the republicans. no labels does not have a specific plan for the encouragement or disbursement of party participation. if you are a strong advocate for a third party, you share the need of bringing leaders to washington who will work with us party-line split a principled

green party member or constitutionalist can find people to work with and agree on some things but not all things will make the system work better and will make it easier to satisfy policy goals. host: buffalo new york on our democrat's line. caller: good morning. the one thing in politics that discuss people the most is the money in politics. i was wondering if you with that a constitutional amendment to overturn citizens united. to touch on another point as far as early voting goes, certain countries make early voting possible. we knew that something like that -- would you that something like that?

that have to work all day and then stand in line all evening to vote. there are a number of things that disenfranchise people. there should be one day -- there is just one day when people can go. guest: you are right. there is a need for additional campaign reform in this country. we need to take a look at the way voting is conducted in this country. that is an important example of how our system becomes dysfunctional so quickly. look at the debate over voter id lost. on the one hand, people are saying suppression, suppression. the other side is saying fraud, fraud. let's say there is a reasonable solution that can be arrived at

somewhere in the middle. you get the two sites in the discussion to come together and work together on a more productive solution to the kind of problems he is talking about. our organization sponsors the processes of government more than campaign reform. we have done as much as an organization can on our proposals for governance. i have done quite a bit in the area of political reform. we are concerned about the right of money involved in the political process. you are right about the process of when voting takes place. even while being concerned about political reform, take a look at what happens once your representative to get to washington. taking the presidency work proposals will do a lot to encourage people to vote or no other reason than they will see

their representatives get things done. host: a pennsylvania judge of health a gop backed measure. we see the states that have voting id laws. those in red have stricter laws. ts laws are in lighter colors. caller: what we actually need at this time is an independent congressional review board that will look at all legislation proposed that will infringe on the rights of the american system, especially those passed at 1:00 in the morning under the pretense of national security

back with people in jail without charges. we need the review board to look with those legislations before those laws become inactive. it is not done right now, this is dangerous. we need to pay attention to this. these are the same politicians who, many years ago, brought the idea of removing illegal immigrants from public schools. have a nice day. guest: he raises an important point on a couple of issues. the independent review board is something we are talking about whatever -- talking about. an independent, nonpartisan budget and economic the economic board to present to congress to

work with the same set of facts. final -- finally,-- finally, hep immigration. it has failed -- the policy has failed the american people. the system does not allow for it. performs could help. on all of these issues -- reforms could help, on all of the issues that your callers have mentioned. host: dan schnur, what should citizens due to take responsibility? guest: ultimately, this is the responsibility of citizens. citizens have the ultimate authority to either reward their elected officials or remove them from office. we believe, given the 100,000 people who have already joined no labels -- www.nolabels.org

-- principled citizens want them to be able to cooperate. ultimately, it is the citizen's responsibility to say, you have done a good job working together across party lines, we will reward you. or, you know what? you're not willing to work with other people, you are not willing did get anything done, we are going to replace you with somebody who is. that is why increase voter participation is so important. when congress and the president demonstrate they can get the job done, that is when you see voter turnout increase. that is when you see the system work the way it is supposed to. host: dan schnur of no labels. we have been talking about their campaign to make the presidency work. guest: thank you for having me.

oft: watch c-span's coverage the conventions, coming up in just a couple of weeks. tampa, august 27-30. then returning to charlotte to 6.e the democrats sept. 4- find out more at c-span.org. coming up next, steve gunderson is our guest. we will talk about for-profit colleges. later on, kristie arslan joins us to discuss issues that are most important to the self -- a boy in today's economy and the job market. first this news update. >> now that the department of homeland security is taking applications from young illegal immigrants looking to get work permits, arizona governor jan brewer has signed an executive order denying the young people drivers licenses and other public benefits. governor brewer says the federal program, the deferred action for

childhood arrivals program, does not give immigrants legal status. she is following the intent of the current state law denying public benefits to them. arizona has one of the nation's toughest anti-immigration laws. an american has been detained in venezuela. the embassy says that officials from the consular section met with the person yesterday, six days after the president hugo chávez announced that they had detained an american and were interrogating him under suspicion of being a mercenary. president chavez has not identified the detained man, but says he could be involved in a suspected plot to destabilize the country if the opposition loses in the fall presidential election. turning to afghanistan, the nato-led international coalition says the helicopter crash in the country has killed 11 people, including seven international service members. the military alliance says that

at least three of those killed were american troops -- for american troops. the coalition is investigating the cause of the crash. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> which is more important -- well for honor? -- welath or -- wealth or honor? it is not as big victors said for years ago, --as the victor said four years ago, "the economy, stupid." all things flow from doing what is right. >> look at what has happened. we have the lowest rate of unemployment, inflation, and home mortgages in 28 years.

look at what has happened. 10 million new jobs, over half of them high-wage jobs. 10 million workers getting the raise they deserve through the minimum-wage law. >> c-span has aired every minute of every major-party conventions since 9984. -- 1984. watch every minute of the republican and democratic national conventions live on c- span, c-span radio, and streamed online at [unintelligible] c-span.org -- at c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: steve gunderson of the association of private-sector colleges. who goes to for-profit colleges? guest: just because your

organizers say for-profit entity does not mean that you make money every year. we are all about students, educating students, providing innovation that works for them, flexible scheduling with a focused academic delivery. who goes to our school? 91% of our students are defined as nontraditional by one or more criteria. 96% of our students are eligible for title iv financial aid. we are dealing with a unique element of american society that is trying to fit post secondary and it -- a post secondary education into their life reality. once last third of these are single-parent -- 1/3 of these are single-parent head of households.

it is a very diverse constituency who have one or more challenges to in terms -- one or more challenges to success in terms of post secondary education. host: gives or a sense of where these schools are, what -- given us more of a sense of where the schools are, what they are. how are they uniquely different. guest: most of them have an education that has a career focus. that is, a professional skills that as well as a broad-based education, a combination of the two. you will very seldom find them in a traditional higher education campus. most of them try to be coming to the students because the students are coming from work or coming from home where the family -- with a family, that type of thing. these are often along major highways. these are not first time, full-

time students out of high school who want to have an on-campus life and live in the dormitory. it is a very different kind of academic setting. host: there was a recent report that was critical of for-profit colleges. they surveyed and looked at 30 colleges. here are some of those, just to give our listeners and viewers some familiarity. the career education corp., the caplan -- kaplan higher education -- schools that we see advertised on television periodically. guest: you bring up a part of our sector that i did not adequately represent early on. online education, technology- based academic delivery. i love to tell the story that, when i went to school, i needed to sit in a lecture hall and give me -- and have a professor

give me a lecture. my nieces and nephews would love to have a lecture on an ipod so they could go running and listen to it. host: if you want to join the conversation, call us. if you attend a for-profit school call us at 202-628-0184. we are speaking with steve gunderson. he is the president and ceo of the association of private- sector colleges and universities. he also served for 16 years in the u.s. growers. this report that the health committee did was fairly critical. it showed the numbers of people who complete programs successfully versus those who leave. let's look at some of the numbers. students who are enrolled in a

variety of programs, over 1 million students, the number that withdrew was more than half of that. 590,000, those who left before getting an associate degree 63%, without getting a bachelor's degree, 54%, without getting any certificate, 38%. this is the 2008-2009 survey. what is your response to that? guest: this was not a committee report. as was said to the press and public of this was a case where ideology drove the reality of their presentation. they simply are opposed to the concept of a for-profit entity being involved in higher education. host: that is senator tom harkin who is the chairman of the health committee. guest: i did not want to begrudge senator harkin. he is a friend of mine. he signed on to the report. let's understand it for what it

was. the minority party was pretty critical of the outcome, the failure to look at all the challenges in higher education. but look at some of the numbers that you brought up. you talk about 500,000 leaving before they get a degree. the fundamental misunderstanding of how this sector works -- unlike that traditional campus where you go for a semester or four year and you take five -- or for a year and you take five 3-credit courses at a time, you take one course at a time for a month. you may be waiting for the course to start the next month. somebody might say you drop out and did not complete your degree. you finish one course, then you take the second. these are adults with real jobs and real lives. they take these courses on a

part-time basis for the most part. it is a fundamental misunderstanding of how we work. to say 63% of the students withdrew -- i do not know where they got that statistic. the department of education says 61% of students in our schools graduate with a degree in two-year programs. we do not know where the statistics come from. in some ways, they have figured out statistics and tried to come up with data that supported what their thesis already was. host: this was from "the new york times" a couple weeks ago -- according to the report, taxpayers spent $32 billion in the most recent year on companies that operate for- profit colleges, but the majority of students -- and you dispute this -- leave without a degree, half of them within four months. get to the money. what is the funding for? how do the schools use it?

guest: it is indicative of the bias. $32 billion -- let's put that in perspective. 96% of our students are eligible for financial aid. we are automatically going to have a higher proportion of financial-aid student than any other type of school. let's put all of these numbers in perspective. there is another number i have to share with you. senator harkin criticized -- they spend only 17% of their total revenues on academic instruction. he does not tell you that the university of iowa in his home state spends only 16.2%. any number in isolation looks unique until you put it in its broad perspective. that is what was the great failure of this report. we all have challenges in higher

education. we all have good schools and bad schools in every sector of higher education. what we ought to be doing as we get ready for reauthorization of the higher-education act -- we ought to all be stepping back and say, what is the great challenge, how do we collectively address those challenges in ways that we can achieve more outcomes for every student. host: republican joining us from vista, california. caller: i believe in good education. generally, when i talk to people today about the economy and what have you, i asked them, what do you think got us -- today? usually, they will come up with the housing market and the banks. i said, no, you are wrong. it is the best and brightest.

they tell you every day get out there and get an education. then they say, wait a minute. we do not have enough people that are educated in the schools that we need. -- the skills that we need. what does that tell you? the best and brightest ain't doing such a great job. they can argue the housing market. they can argue anything, but all that stuff is controlled by the best and brightest. guest: i think you bring up a really good point. it is not just education. it is education in skills today. second, when we are looking at "skills," we are looking at a major mismatch between people who have skills and the positions open for skills which we cannot fill.

if we could match skilled workers with skilled needs, we would reduce the unemployment rate in this country by -- i think it was 2%. we have to find a way to do that. there are a number of studies that say, over this decade, we need an additional 8 million to 23 million workers to enter the work force with post secondary education and skills. that is additional. you are from california, where you are facing a cap on enrollment at every element of your public post-secondary education system. i think the number is 356,000 high school seniors who graduated in the spring who have no access to post-secondary education in california this fall because of the cap on enrollment at the community colleges, at the public sector university system. we have too far away to give people the opportunity to get the education and skills they need to get real jobs, real

income, real opportunities for a better life. it is good for them and it is the only way america is going to be competitive. host: how do you avoid over- promising people who come to your program. you mentioned veterans are a large component of those who seek education at for-profit college. host: you will never completely cure the over-promise issue. we are all students. we have idealistic visions of what is going to happen and what the outcomes are going to be, but we ought to be really good about transparency, number one. no. two, i think we need much better education in this country in what i call financial literacy, so that everybody understands what the costs are going to be. not only going to school, but when you get out of school. third, we have to do a really good job -- and when i visit our schools, i asked this every

time. i see where their particular programs are. what is the market demand in this particular area? when we talk about issues like gainful employment, we ought to be talking about, are we over- educating the number of students in a particular field? because we do a disservice to the students if we do not try to do a better job of balancing the need and the demand. host: let's go to pete, a graduate of for-profit college in south carolina. caller: good morning, everyone. i graduated from the university of phoenix, who are part of the apollo group. host: did you get a bachelor's degree, associate degree? caller: i have a master's degree and a bachelor's degree in business administration. the problem was secondary colleges is the accreditation. i tried to transfer to different

schools to get my doctorate. they will not accept some of my credits. because they do not have actual causes that match with them. or they are accredited regionally and it is a problem with these schools that i am transferring into. in south carolina, it was not a problem, because they fully take those accreditations. when i tried to transfer to the university of north carolina, it was a problem to get my doctorate. when i first started college, i was under the impression that my montgomery gi bill was going to help pay $40,000 of it. and it did, but whenever i ended school, i ended up owing $89,000. i recently got out of the military. now, with my education, the degree is technically not worth the paper is printed on. i cannot find a job anywhere around here.

it is one of those things that, yes, we have great colleges around the world. because i was on a ship in the middle of the ocean serving my country, it was a great idea for me to go to this secondary school. now that i am out and trying to pursue my second career field, how do you expect me to do that? the accreditation does not stand up for what i thought would. now idle $89,000 for a degree that is not worth anything. guest: i work full time in post-secondary education. i am not sure i understand the full looks and crannies of it. i am not sure how we expect any net average citizen to navigate the accreditation process. obviously, everybody ought to. i think most of my schools are clear in their informational packets about where their accreditation does and does not

stand. when you talk about accreditation, you almost have to talk to any individual school about the program. it will make the decision about whether courses do or do not. i tell my colleagues in higher education, either we are going to solve the credit-transfer process or the congress and the politicians are going to step -- going to solve it for us. you are indicative of a growing frustration in this country. people go to a school that is accredited. they believe, by virtue of the accreditation of that there a some universal -- of the accreditation, that there is some uniform standard. you know that regional accrediting agencies, which are the most traditional for the four-year public and four nonprofits, there are a series of national accrediting agencies -- we have to sit down and figure this out. we have to do it pretty soon. host: libertarian, new york.

dollar >> good morning to you. i have a question -- caller: good morning to you. i have a question for you concerning accreditation. when there is clear accreditation and that accreditation calls for certain standards in the training -- i am a graduate of a private college. throughout the experience, i recognized deficiencies and began to do research. as students of the graduating class, we have received less than one-half of the required curriculum hours in a couple of very particular and important subject areas. it was private mortuary college in new york city for funeral directors. host: private colleges different from for-profit college, correct?

caller: that is correct. they are technically listed as a not-for-profit. they have all of these same issues. host: we will get a response. guest: if what you're saying is correct, i would contact the accrediting agency for that school. if they're not offering the courses that are part of the accreditation -- that is what accreditation is all about. it is pure peer review to make sure the academics meet the standards as promised. there is a problem there that ought to be dealt with. we have three different elements of regulation in higher education today. the state legislature in every state, accreditation, wilwhich looks at the quality and standards, we have legislation,

etc. you have three different elements of regulation. we have plenty of regulation if the regulators go after the problem schools and deal with it. we do not need to go with more regulation. we just need to enforce what we have. host: a democratic caller in bradenton, florida. caller: i will capitalize on those three elements of regulation. it is not enforced. it is not enforced and it should be enforced before these schools even get licensed. i am a massage therapist in florida for 18 years. our profession is being attacked. basically, we have had a series of laws passed for us. one affects every insured drivers here. they have eliminated my profession.

also, the human track of an -- human trafficking law -- they have accused every massage therapist of essentially being a prostitute. working group meetings that took place in tallahassee -- in these working-group meetings that took place in tallahassee, they made the statement that schools like this were popping up everywhere in florida. i think your point about the element of regulation is well put, but somehow before these -- i know it is not the majority of ones that you are representing on this program. you have probably no idea these calls would be filtered to you. i just wanted to know there is a big issue of schools being

approved with a statement by the working group. it took place in tallahassee when they were discussing this law. i watched 10 1/2 hours. the man said the schools are popping up to manufacture criminals. i was really alarmed. host: what did he mean by that? caller: demint that the schools that were for profit -- he meant that the schools that were for-profit, there were a lot of staged accidents happening. this is off topic. i know you have plenty of callers -- host: so is essentially -- so, essentially, they were not properly educating their clients. how would you address that? guest: our organization is a

voluntary membership organization. an awful lot of our schools are into was austerity. we provide 53% of all of the allied health professional training in this country. it is a significant component. i think what she brings up is really important. there is this attempt to denigrate certain professions. i think, unfortunately, massage therapy is one of them. i love to tell the story. i haven't 87-year-old father who has -- i have an 87-year-old father who has an incredibly bad back. one of the best gives we give him as a -- is a gift certificate with a certified massage therapist. when you are dealing with professionals in this type of health care -- we will only see this grow with the aging of the population -- we need to find a

demand in a wayhe that has credibility. in america today, we are so polarized about so many issues. let's look at how we build up everybody to meet the needs. host: our next caller is in franklin, pennsylvania, aron our republican line. caller: you are an excellent host, libby. i did the research peace. -- piece. if you contact the fairfield iowa public library and ask for the articles on the college from june 3 -- article on the college from june 3, 1996 -- the registrar from iowa told me it was the worst case ever to be recorded in this country.

she addressed me with caution to tell anybody in this country that less than 14 major colleges or universities in iowa alone throughout the 20th century were completely shut down. i said to her, was it over jealousy and envy? she said yes. when you are recruiting, it is -- i am not being condescending. the recent incidence of penn state -- have them send you a copy of the article. the story about that school. that will straighten out a lot of things. if that can be -- comment.i cannot i have not seen the story.

host: he mentioned the staffing levels. this is from the senate committee on health, education -- in red, those staff used for career services. looking at the numbers, we can see that it turns out the recruiters number in the 35,000 range, support services staff in 12,000, career staff is lower. guest: i am glad you brought this up. this indicates the ideology that drove the development of the report. everything shows that they were looking at recruiters and figured out that was not a big enough number to make their

case, so they added all of the admissions personnel into that number to distort that number versus the rest of them. that is unfortunate. this is what people are cynical of our government, when they see these kinds of reports that have been manipulated for ideology. it is not helpful. second, i think this is a really important question for people to understand. unfortunately, it is where senator harkin's staff does not understand the business model of post-secondary, private-sector colleges and universities. when i graduated from high school and i decided where i was going to college, i went to the guidance counselor. there were all of the books of the different colleges that were available to me. i was a captive student. so was the material. that is not the student body for us. the student body for us are adults who have been out of school for a long time, who have jobs and families. how do you reach them? you reach them the same way you

do traditional advertising. if you go to any one of our schools and say what percent of your students who inquire about your school actually go through and enroll, it is about 1%. you have a very different business model, which requires a significant investment on the communications, marketing, advertising to reach that broad constituency, to see who actually makes the decision, yes, it is the right time, the right place, the right education for me to go back to school. you cannot compare apples to oranges. host: evelyn joins us now from princeton, new jersey, a graduate of a for-profit college. are you with us? one last time. we will move on to allen, an independent scholar in tennessee. caller: -- an independent

caller in tennessee. caller: i have two daughters in their 30's who are both recruiters. they have recruited for these for-profit colleges that are nothing more than a rip. it is a professional, well- funded rip-off. host: why do you say that? caller: because both my daughters are highly-paid, highly-skilled sales people. i do not know if they were just good salespeople, but they are recruited from one to the other. i do not want to name the people. host: so you do not think your daughters are doing a service by recruiting? caller: i do not think they are doing an honest service. because the stories that i hear

from the inside are abysmal. if you look at the lawsuits that are filed against these colleges, it is staggering. the congressman knows. he might sit there and smile and say it does not happen, but, i tell you what. look at some of the lawsuits that have been filed. any number of those that are sitting on tom harkin's list and you will find they have an unusually high number of lawsuits. and they prey on the military. guest: ok. lots of things to talk about. i want you to go with me or your daughters to any one of the

graduation that our schools. you will change your perspective on what this opportunity is. i could give you countless numbers of students who now graduated -- according to senator harkin, 760,000 students yearly -- students were getting an education. if we were not doing something right, we could not be getting 3.8 million students coming back every year. you bring up the veterans. i love that. i want to talk about that. the first student i met when i of the the president tha association of private-sector colleges. it was in florida. i was talking to the woman who was the director of student services. she said, let me introduce you to antonio. i met him. she said, he is here. he is written ruling -- he is

reenrolling. he had been in iraq and afghanistan. he said, mr. gunderson, i could have gone to the university of miami, the university of florida. i talked to my fiancee and my mother. we all decided i needed to come back here. why? because this is the kind of program that fits my needs. it is a focused, academic delivery. i cannot take five courses at the same time. i need flexible scheduling. i have to go to school and worked at the same time. i have to balance both of them. the reason 152,000 veterans have used the post-9/11 g i bill in our schools is because they have found the academic delivery is done in a way that fits their particular needs. if you talk to a veteran, the veteran will tell you the number-one reference that they listen to when they decide where they go to school is another veteran.

and if we are not doing a good job for those veterans, they are not going to encourage their brothers and sisters and the military to follow them in the door to that particular school. host: question coming to us by e-mail. what do you think of the free, online class is that stanford and mit are giving for free? how you tweets and asks yo foresee the impact of moocs on his line of business? guest: they do not deal with the issues of -- you cannot even get a certification for it clear what we need to figure out is how do we use technology in a way that will enable students to get both the education and the

credentials that will allow them to move forward. here is where i think the second question really gets to this. today, academic completion is really campus-focused. it is the campus you go to. if i -- if i get a degree from the school a broadcasting -- in the future, it is not going to be the university of wisconsin or brown college that issued that degree. it will be steve gunderson who creates his own degree program. he will get a credit from the school, from that school, and he is going to combine all of them. the student will control the academic outcomes and success down the road, not the campus or the institution. that is innovation. host: let's hear from a democratic caller in georgia. welcome. caller: good morning. i was listening to steve.

i heard, as of last week, some of these colleges are recruiting a lot of the gi's, but they said it cannot get a job once they get out. they still owe over $89,000 to the government because they have gotten this program to the government. they know they are not going to make any money off of it. they get the money from the government whether they get money back from the students or not. he still owes $89,000. this is a debacle. they're taking these money from the gi's and knowing they're not going to get any accreditation when they get out of college and i cannot get the job -- that is ridiculous. -- and they cannot get a job -- that is

ridiculous. guest: any student who enrolls at any school knows up front, and i know our schools do it because they have to. they will make it very explicit about what credit transferability is from that school to other institutions. in most cases, they will say there is no guarantee. you have to talk to the other institution about that. we start from that perspective. second, you talk about the money coming to the school. no money comes to the school. the money goes to student financial aid. that goes to that student and a choose whether they are going to the university of georgia or to a private-sector college or to one of our schools. the student chooses that, with the gi bill. the gi benefits are given to the veteran. the veteran gets to choose where they want to go. i am not want to question the veteran who has defended as in iraq and afghanistan -- defended

us in iraq and afghanistan. i am not going to tell any veteran in america they are not smart enough to know where to go to school. our schools treat them appropriately. we make sure that our programs and best practices for veteran education are such that veterans will take it -- will tell veterans they ought to keep coming to our school. if you are a veteran on the campus today and that military commander sees your school is not getting the job done, that commander is not going to allow you back on that base. you have to have credibility. let's put this in perspective. we have 152,000 veterans who have gone to our school through the post-9/11 gi bill. i have heard 10, 15, let's say it's 1000 complaints. the 151,000 who were happy with their education --

that is still 151,000 who were happy with their education. that is the reality of america. there are going to be disappointments. we have to try to solve that. studentt's hear from a at for-profit college. caller: i just want to say that i am six passes away. i will graduate in february with an associate's -- six classes away. i will graduate in february with an associate's degree from the university of phoenix and information technology. i have been very happy with my experience. i feel like there is an undertone that the schools are out to rip students off. i will tell you that is not it. they are very informative from the beginning about what credits might or might not be able to transfer, how much it is going to cost.

my financial aid advisor tried to talk me out of getting the full amount. as far as the rates of students who drop out, unfortunately, we should not blame the schools. we should blame the people doing that. there is a certain percentage that is trying to get in there, get $3,000 or $4,000, but they do not go to class, they do not fulfill academic requirements, and they drop out. guest: i think you bring up a really good point. there are what we call student financial aid -- there is what we call student financial aid fraud. it is a distinct minority. when you add that up on a national basis, it is a real problem. we have to deal with that. second, any time a student drops out, their charges are prorated. there is no way the campus takes

the money if the student does not continue through -- with their education. the campus has to operate that money back. third, you bring up this question -- i was smiling when you said that student financial aid advisers encourage you not to take the full amount. we really would like the authority to be able to tell students take out the amount of money that you need, but do not go beyond that. we want to work with students to manage the debt load post- graduation. host: let's get one more call with a student from a for-profit college. caller: i wanted to share my experience. for-profity second fou college. i picked up a few courses here and there and came out with a degree. since i came out, i established my degree. i have gone back to school and it is an absolutely wonderful experience for me. the biggest downside and one of

the things across most people out is trying to balance a full- time job with the heavy course load that these online class es require. for me, it has been beneficial. i cannot say enough good things about it. host: congressman steve gunderson, you served in congress through the beginning of 1997. can you reply to this, on the role of congressman ryan -- we have seen a lot with the -- with the recall election, the tea party surfacing. what is your take? guest: i would call congressman paul ryan the 21st century conservative. he's a fiscal conservative. he may or may not be conservative on some of the social issues. he is much more of a fiscal conservative. he is incredibly smart. he is incredibly passionate.

he is a tribute to wisconsin. even people who will not vote for the wrong the-ryan -- the romney-ryan ticket, we are pretty proud. it is the first time to have son from wisconsin on the national ticket -- have someone from wisconsin on the national ticket. tommy was the most moderate of the four candidates for the republican nomination for u.s. senate. he won the nomination. i think we have moved -- different times define different priorities. priority is much more physical than social or cultural. -- the priority is much more fiscal than social or cultural. host: thank you for answering some political questions. thank you are coming on to talk about for-profit college.

steve gunderson, the president and ceo of the association of private sector colleges and universities. coming up next, we will talk with kristie arslan about current issues most important to the self-employed in today's economy and job market. first, this news update from c- span radio. >> on employment numbers show americans applying for benefits edged 00 -- unemployment numbers show americans applying for benefits edged up last week. employers added 163,000 jobs last month, the best job growth since february. as for housing construction, the commerce department says construction of single-family homes and apartments did -- dipped just over 1% to a seasonally-adjusted annual rate of 746,000. in a hopeful sign for future

construction, applications for building permits rose to their highest level since august, 2008. and an update on the downing of a nato helicopter in afghanistan. the taliban are canning -- are claiming responsibility for the crash which killed at least 11 people, including three americans. >> i started as a copy boy with "the new york times." i was in a training program after a got out of the army. >> this sunday on c-span's "q&a." walter talks about his various jobs as a journalist, his views on american spending overseas, and his criticism of the defense department's budget priorities. >> the band is about 40 people. it has separate rooms for everybody. if you spent $4 million on an

elementary school, i bet somebody would raise questions. >> sunday night on c-span's "q&a." -- >> is most important > which is most important, welath or -- wealth or honor? all things do not flow from guelph or poverty. -- from wealth or poverty. i know this and so do you. all things flow from doing what is right. >> look at what has happened. we have the lowest combined rate of an informant, inflation, and -- of unemployment, inflation,

and home mortgages in 28 years. 10 million new jobs, over half of them high-wage jobs. 10 million workers getting the raise they deserve with the minimum-wage law. >> every major party conventions since 1984. we are in the countdown to this year process conventions. -- this year's conventions. live on c-span, c-span radio, and online at c-span.org. starting monday, august 27. "washington journal" continues. host: kristie arslan is president and ceo of the national association for the self-employed. welcome. who are the self-employed in america? what do they do? how many are there? guest: i often get asked, who is small business, who are these people we are talking about so

often. we focus on the self-employed, 1-person businesses, home-based businesses, entrepreneurs who decide to venture out on their own. it is a very small part of the small business population. there are about 21 million self- employed americans, about 79% of all small businesses in the u.s. the fda uses the definition of -- sba uses the definition of a business with 500 employees or less. host: you see the numbers going up. what does your organization do. -- do? give us more details. guest: we have been around for 30 years. our primary focus is to help america's smallest businesses. our goal is to be their partner in success. the first three years of a business is very crucial in terms of their ability to

succeed. what we do is help them in every aspect. we help them by providing business benefits, by providing educational resources of the can improve their business skills, and we help by providing a seat at the table in washington, d.c. we are a nonprofit membership association. our sole goal is to help the smallest businesses out there. host: 79% of small businesses in the u.s. are self-employed. it shows that those -- shows those in blue. firms with more in green, 10-19. purple, those with 20-99. larger firms making up just 3% of small businesses in the u.s. if you are self-employed, process 202-628-0184.

-- call us at 202-628-0184. again, self-employed can reach us at 202-628-0184. give us more of a sense of what self-employed americans do, the range of what they are doing on and what they were on all day. guest: it is an array of industries. every industry has people who are self-employed in it. we work with people in consulting, professional services, contractors, people dealing with construction, people dealing with trade, cpa's, doctors, dentists. i can honestly say, if you ask any american, they are likely to know somebody who is self- employed or what we call micro business, a business with 10 or less employees.

because they are so diverse, it can be difficult in terms of policy and also in terms of a unified voice for them to have a strong role in what is going on here in washington, d.c. that is where we come in as an association. our role as the national association for the self- employed is to help be their voice, to help stand up for their business needs in d.c. against a lot of other businesses, larger interests who have a lot more clout and a lot more money to influence policy. host: the darkest green, texas, florida, california. are there concentrations? guest: the state laws and state environment to play a part in whether they have a large number of small business and self- employed. some states have a much more favorable regulatory tax environment for small

businesses. so you'll see the number increase. texas, new york, certain states really promote entrepreneurship. i think that is where you see -- and of course, population. states that are larger in size, you have a likelihood of larger numbers. it definitely is diverse. i think the state crime has a lot to do with whether they truly foster -- state climate as a lot to do with whether they truly foster entrepreneurship. host: how's the economy affecting this? guest: the downturn that we have been experiencing and are trying to come out of has been -- has been unique passed all years -- past all years. typically, we see an increase in the number of self-employed. we see people who have left work or have been forced out of work self- layoffs entere

employment. this time around, we have seen a drop. a lot of it has to do with the expansion of unemployment benefits. this congress has really expanded unemployment benefits longer than any other time. people were making a cost- benefit analysis. but want to venture into self- employment and lose those -- do i want to venture into self- employment and lose those benefits? we did not see the uptick in self-employment that we usually see. we have seen an increase. the census bureau released their numbers. we have seen an uptick in 2009, which is the most recent data. host: if you would like to join the conversation, we have a special phone line for the self- employed. 202-628-0104. let's hear from robert in arkansas. caller: i ran my own business

for 15 years. i am retired. i made $150,000. my school friends are now broken paying their bills -- now broke and paying their bills. host: what kind of work were you in? caller: communications. host: did you find it hard to start off on your own? caller: i worked and busted my butt. i was a top salesman. then i started my own business. from there on, i bought my own house. host: what advice do you have for entrepreneurs like yourself? caller: people ought to find out what they want to do, work at it for at least a year, then start their own business in what they want to do, not in what they have to do.

guest: it is great to hear your success story. that is excellent advice. i highly recommend that anybody who is thinking about venturing out on their own burn about the area in which they want to start a business, asked -- their own learn about the area in which they want to start a business, ask other business owners, maybe take a course or worked in the field -- work in the field. and do what you love. i think it is why so many people who are self-employed are happy, because they are doing what they love. at nase, we have a bumper sticker that says, "i love my boss. i love my job. i am self-employed." they reap the benefits of their own. own. host: question on twitter -- what are the common issues to

starting and maintaining your own business? guest: it can be very overwhelming with all the things you need to do. i think it is also very difficult in this information age with the internet to find information and know that you're getting it from a trusted resource. as a nonprofit association, we pride ourselves on being the key resources in the self employment and starting a business. my advice to someone who is thinking about starting a business is go get help. a first stop would be nase. a second would be your local small-business development center. they can help you with every aspect of starting your business. it is an important part of doing that. another challenges, of course, funding. where do you get the money to start your business? that is a very big challenge. i honestly do not think that has

been solved. most business owners utilize their personal savings, loans from family and friends, credit cards to start their business. nase as a business-grant program for members, where they can get a grant of up to $5,000 to start or grow their business. $5,000 to start or grow their business. there is of course the loan program but it is very difficult to get a loan. but it is an option that people should look at when looking to fund their business. caller: good morning. host: please go ahead. caller: what can you do to regulate self-employers who start out with less than two or three employees come up but those employees are undocumented? a lot of workers have a license

for themselves, but they are off the books and no payroll. they are not allowed to work because they need a paycheck. guest: i believe that is a big issue in the construction industry. there are regulations in place as well as a lot of independent regulation relating to self- employed micro businesses in certain fields that used day laborers. there is a system that requires you to verify someone's ability to work in this country. the department of labor and your state department is a good resource to go to if you have concerns about a particular industry or contractor in your area or having difficulty working with the contractor. i encourage you to reach out to your local departments of labor

office for that issue. host: this viewer tweets in -- guest: i am from a small business background. my father and uncle had a deli in new york for 25 years. my grandfather had a furniture making, repair, and interior design business. my husband and i spent the last two years launching a gourmet popcorn company and food truck here in washington, d.c. i understand how challenging but also how reporting a can be to start your own business and be your own boss. host: kristie arslan is president and ceo of the national association for the self-employed. let's hear from mike in virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to share something with

both of you. over 30 years ago, i had a severe injury to my head which left me with seizures. when i had a job and i had a seizure, they would let me go and fire me. i decided to work for myself. for the last 30 years, i have had quite a struggle. i have been in the home renovation business and built new homes. i was determined to prove to myself that this could be done. the last two years have been rather hard on me. those people who think you cannot do this -- believe me, you can do more than you think you can if you just do not give up. thank you for your time. host: i tnk we lost him.

i was going to ask him the hardest thing about launching your business. john tweets in -- guest: mike, congratulations to you to venture out on your own. i agree with you. i think people should really look at being your own boss and creating your own career. self-employment is an excellent way to make your own way for people who have various issues, disabled ors being a challenging family environment or with young children at home. self-employment is a great to have the flexibility you need to do what you need to do in your life. regarding the tax, yes. one of the big challenges is

the tax code. unfortunately, the tax code is not very fair to the smallest businesses out there. one of the biggest factors is self-employed have to pay the biggest tax than any other business because they are both considered honor and employee. what is worse is that if you are someone who is self-employed in you purchase your own health insurance, you do not get a business deduction for your health insurance. all other businesses are able to deduct the costs of their health-insurance. because you do not, you pay more in tax than any other business. we have been working for eight years to pass into law a remedy for this. we were lucky in 2010 when we got a one-year relief for health-insurance costs. we have been working very hard

to extend that and make it permanent for the self-employed. unfortunately, there are a lot of tax challenges but that should not be a deterrent. host: how does the affordable care act affect the self- employed? guest: i would say the health care reform law is a mixed bag. there are some positive aspects of the law. one thing in particular is people who are self-employed by health insurance in the individual market today are subject right now to underwrite. if you have something wrong with your health in the past, you are considered to have a pre- existing condition. the health care reform law addresses that. it says health insurance will be guaranteed to be issued regardless of your help statice, and it also limits how

much an insurance company can charge you even if you have a health issue paying the health care reform law set up state exchanges or new marketplaces. i think this will help small business owners shop for health care and learn more about the coverage options in their state and the smarter consumers. some of the downsides are this health care reform law did not address the issue of affordability. there are premium subsidies in the law. you can get some financial assistance but quite frankly most self-employed americans and households make just above the amount to not get financial assistance under this law. they will likely be paying more for health coverage because the law also included the central health benefits.

that is going to be higher than what a lot of self-employed americans have so they will be paying more. it is a first that in addressing one of the biggest issues for the country. host: a twitter comment -- guest: one of our big goals is to provide benefits to the small business community, and we offer 100 business benefits to address your needs. a big need is insurance. we offer a whole host of insurance options geared for the self-employed, and you can take a look at those on our web site. host: john is a democratic caller. host: i am calling from illinois. good morning. i was a self-employed person back in the '90s.

i was lucky enough to start from scratch with $100 out of my pocket. i opened up a janitorial service. in a year's time, i had two people working for me. i did pick up a course at the local college to get an idea of marketing and how to do all that. my daughter now just went into self-employment as a massage therapist. that was a very good thing for her to do. it set her on a course. there was no grants available that she could get into. where do you go to find out about grants that may be available so you can expand in a year or so? guest: there is a grants website

off of our web site. grants are far and few between because it is very difficult to give out money. we do have a grant program where our members can apply for a grant for up to $5,000 for their business needs. it is one of the only grant programs for associations in the nation came bank we have given out $600,000 in grants. i also encourage you to go to the local small-business development center because they are involved with a lot of the state-based foundations and think tanks. they will have a good list of grants in your area that may be state-based. i am glad to hear that your daughter is following in your

footsteps. i encourage her to reach out to us if she needs any assistance as well as her local small- business development center. host: here is the website. loans and grants is one of the links that you can click on from that web site let's go to virginia right here in the washington, d.c., area. good morning. caller: i am not self-employed yet but i am working on it. a couple of comments i wanted to make. in terms of getting a business started, i and 77, so i am outside the age range for an entrepreneur for an ice-cream shop but it is something i have always wanted to do. the biggest problem i have had

so far is getworking with contractors, being an elderly woman. there is the tendency for contractors to not always be truthful in terms of their estimates for what it costs for what something will be. because i come from an entrepreneurial family, i have learned to the essentially stand up for what i know is right. eventuallythe biggest problem id it is with architects and drying up the actual floor plans for the business. when i saw the plan, i said wait a minute. there are no bathrooms or vents

in the kitchen. getting them to own up to the fact that they did not have the understanding, it cost me about three times more than what they had estimated. my comment is in it is important to figure out who you can trust and who you cannot. guest: congratulations on entering self-employment. i honestly think there are so many people who technically retired but have so much life to live, and self-employment is an excellent way to have a second career. it allows you to do something you love and try something new. i highly recommend for all of those retirees out there to consider self-employment. one of the biggest challenges of being self-employed, it usually you have expertise or an

interest in a field or area. there are so much other things that come along with that. barbara has to deal with code, construction, and those other things that are not in her will house. we are here to help you provide guidance on different areas that you might need help on. in this case, and for all those people thinking of starting a retail and dealing with construction or contractors, all of these types of industries have professional associations. i highly recommend when you are looking for a contractor in any field, go to the local professional association with the national professional association for those industries. they usually have a system where you can look up accountants or architects and specific sections that they work on or specific

areas that they were gone. and if you have an issue, you can always report it to their local association as well as online services where you can leave reviews and comments and look at other people's reviews to get some good guidance. it is a trust issue. and a lot of self-employed people have to outsourced things like accounting, legal help, and marketing tool you have to trust other people to help you with your business. doing your due diligence in shares you are working with qualified people. host: this viewer tweets in -- guest: yes. self-employment can be a challenge and can be very time consuming. but you get as much as you put

in. i know and lot of self-employed business owners like to be able to control their time. you get to control when and how you work. and the rewards you get are a lot greater. when you are putting in a 40- hour workweek with your job of like you are getting a paycheck. when you are putting in a 40- hour workweek in your business, you are getting revenue and the you areshment that working for yourself. i think self-employment is a great option for people out there looking to take control of their own career and who really want to work at something they love. host: connecticut, frank is a republican caller. good morning. caller: as a small-business owner and worker, i do not care about regulations or health

care. my number one concern is customers. host: you said customers? caller: the rich can afford my services now. i need more customers. number two, i paid 15% fica and 15% federal. i pay twice as much. i do not understand why we have to be concerned with taxes for health care. just customers. you get customers by putting money into the hands of the poor people. it is that simple. guest: i agree with your point. the biggest issue for business owners has been customers. the only way they survive is when people spend money the bank

that is a big challenge. it is very hard to legislate or incentivize people to spend. we do it all the time but it is difficult to do especially when things get tough. it is natural for people to be cautious with their spending in case difficult times persist. i do think taxes matter because it relates to how much money people have in their pocket and how much money people have in their paycheck at the end of the day and how much money people have to spend. it is also a fairness issue. we do not believe americans should pay more in taxes than the largest businesses out there. we think they should have a fair and level playing field so they can have a successful business and take as much revenues home as they can.

host: viewers and listeners can send in e-mails to c-span.org. here is what joy had to say -- yes, and you make an excellent point. we have been talking a lot about the economic decline but also the decline in the housing market. so many people use the equity in their home to gain capital to launch a business. when the housing market crashed and equity drop, people could not do that. people still cannot do that because home prices have not gone up and people do not have the equity to borrow against it for a loan money and bank loans are a key issue for people who want to start a business.

i think when we look at policy, we also need to be looking at things like housing policy because that has a direct effect on being able to pay for a start a business going forward. host: hello, kristie. i have three questions. i would like to know if there is a branch of your company in connecticut where i live. i would also like to know how all i may participate in your workshops. the last thing i would like to know is as an artist, how do i go about marketing my artwork? guest: yes, we are in connecticut. we offer all of their benefits in connecticut and we partner with your local small business

development centers to bring you workshops locally. you can find that information online. we also do a lot of things web- based. especially marketing training online via webinars. we have a program where we have a marketing expert that you can ask a question to 24 hours a day and they can help you with different questions that are geared specifically to your business. we have a whole host of different techniques for marketing. one of your best tools is to really display your work at local art festivals and fairs as well as create a web site for you and your our work so you are able to direct people somewhere to see all the wonderful things you are creating. we can also be of some assistance with suggestions for you and help you find different

festivals that might be a good fit for you and your business. host: kristie arslan is president and ceo of the national association for the self-employed, and she and her husband had started a business recently. john is an independent caller in indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. you may not be able to enter this. frank is right. demand, demand, demand. there has been a lot of talk about taxes on income over $250,000. i wonder what percentage of the small businesses fall into that category. secondly, can a small business or an independent doctor bernard making income above $250,000, can they thought differently? are there other options for them to file which would not put them

into jeopardy? guest: let's talk about the whole tax cut for $250,000. we have supported making tax cuts permanent for people above $250,000. our members typical household income is around $68,000. i do know there are some small- business owners that make above that. many small businesses pay their taxes based on their individual income tax rate because of the way they are structured. they could be a sole owner or a soul proprietor. they do pay their taxes based on their individual income tax rate. that is why it is so important.

that is why you are hearing the argument that $250,000 is not a high enough threshold. we as an association has been fine with the $250,000 cap. in terms of other taxes, you can structure your business in different ways that could help you. you could always incorporate which would put you into a different tax system. the tax code is very complex. with a good accountant, i am sure you could find a way to keep more of your money. most small businesses are under the $250,000 mark. host: the bipartisan crowd funding legislation approved by the house intends to make it easier for individuals to use online marketplaces.

what is crowd funding? how does it work? what are some of the concerns? guest: it is interesting. there has been a lot of talk about ways to spur lending to small businesses. crowd funding is really a grass- roots way to raise money for your business. it leverage is technology, particularly the web and the internet, to allow business owners to reach out to their friends, families, and their community and the world to try to raise money for their business. what you are able to do is you can go through various crowd funding websites, set up a web page for your business, and what

you do is in return for money or loans, you can offer things like equity in the company, a gift certificate, actual products depending on what you are selling, but different ways to get loans and pay back those loans to people. it allows you to use social media to make money. you use that website and push it out to your friends and your community, and the goal is to help you raise money for your business. i think it is a great tool especially for the self- employed who cannot get additional funding. -- traditional funding. i think they are great for small businesses and start-ups looking to start their business and anyone who is very social media savvy. it is a great tool to try to raise money for your business.

some of the concerns are protections for those loaning to is a small business. if they promise you equity or return on investment, a gift card for their business or products, get what you are promised. the law puts in place and lot of consumer protections. if you are thinking of starting a small business, you should definitely look into a crowd funding. host: let's get one more call, from boston. caller: "the secret to success is not working hard. it is getting people to work hard for you." i am a general contractor here in boston and i started out on my own in 2008 right when the market started to take a dip.

i tried to move into a different field and i wondered what recommendations you had. guest: are you trying to go into a different industry? caller: yes, communications. guest: i recommend you talk to people in that field and ask them questions to determine if it is something you like. if someone is willing to let you shadow them to see what it is like for a day in the life. based on your dream job, what type of education or experience requirements you may need to put yourself forward in that career path. i think those are important ways of learning to see if it is a right fit for you. host: kristie arslan, president and ceo of the national association for the self- employed, thank you for comment on the "washington journal."

thank you for joining us. you can find us again 7:00 eastern time tomorrow morning. c-span is gearing up for the coverage of the conventions which start later this month. had a good day. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> some of our live programming to tell you about. german chancellor angela merkel holds a news conference with canadian prime