of that. absolutely, the american taxpayer, the reason why gm and chrysler are still around is because of the american taxpayer. that cannot be disputed. if we're talking affect gm is the world's largest automaker, the caller is making a fair point as well. toyota was hit with the production facility. they could not make enough cars to meet demand last year. position is supported -- was not helped by toyota from market share losses

last year. the tally of the world's largest automaker is a complicated one. it has to be debatable. >> from twitter -- guest: ford is an interesting case. ford is an interesting case because they hit their price point well before the other two. if you look at the article not from last year's contract round, but before that, everyone looked at ford as the weakest of the detroit 3. in four years they went from weakest to the strongest very rapidly. the reason why ford did not need

a bailout is because they were able to, in 2006, at able to take over $23 billion in loans in order to execute a turnaround plan, a one-point turnaround plan under alan mulally. this is two-plus years later when they went to washington and asked for a bailout, but they were able to look at the figures and realized they did not need that money the way gm and chrysler did. you are right. of ford was able to do this because they hit the crisis point some much earlier than the other two. another important point is ford has the money. and it has over $5.6 billion. it really helped.

i just want to make sure that point is understood. >> is there anything worth noting that we have talked about. guest: i think we really hit the highlights. it is gm's stock price. and all of that goes to a wider loss estimate. that just really reiterates that for the moment the theoretical loss and that is something that is constantly fluctuating. only when gm shares are sold will we actually know the extent to which we have lost money. host: did gm had a response to the release of the report? >> i think gm is really aware of the effect its share price has. it has a lot of work to do.

it is something the cfo has asked. every quarterly earnings, every annual report. they all say they are concerned about it and are looking to work on it. that is why they are hopeful. that is why they are trying to show and why they are initiating cultural change. host: is there a different tone in the auto industry in detroit than there was in 2009? guest: absolutely. we have hope now. in 2009, there was a real concern, fere. in detroit, i think there is absolutely -- it is night and day. people are really, there is a recognition of how much talent there is and that there are

changes that need to be made and occasionally there is frustration. but there is a real feeling that these other companies will change. i think there is a lot of optimism about what can be done in the future. host: she serves as a correspondent with reuters, covering auto companies and ford it specifically. she joins us from detroit. >> tomorrow on a washington journal," a discussion on medicare. jeff greenbelts, former policy adviser to ronald reagan talks about why it american need social conservatism. and a guest from the carnegie endowment talks about iran's role in continuing violence in syria. we take your calls, e-mail, and tweets live at 7:00 a.m. eastern

on c-span. >> in nine days, watch gavel-to- gavel coverage of the democratic and republican conventions live on c-span, your friend wrote seats to the conventions. and next, a geo technology specialist from google. then paul ryan campaigning in florida earlier today, followed by president obama at a campaign rally in new hampshire. >> next we will hear about visualizing and presenting data to better understand global issues like climate change. posted by the aspen ideas festival, this is an hour and 10 minutes. >> good afternoon and thank you for coming. welcome to the panel on

visualizing our future through the lens of big data. i assume if you took the time to come here after lunch you are a big data freak like me. it is my new passion. i really got the winning card in the moderator sweepstakes. i got the chance to meet with three amazing guys who are doing phenomenal stuff. they will show you some really great data visualizations that will blow your mind. before we jump into that, i think -- first i want to let you know who they are. then we will do a lightning round about what is big data anyway. first, ed parsons is the geo spatial technologist at google. google maps, google earth, and a google maps for mobile. anybody who has click on and

hovered over their own house knows how exciting that little bit of technology is. google earth, he is essentially building a telescope for the planet which is a good idea if you try to get your head and around it. we always see the sky from earth but we have never seen earth from the sky. his mission is to bring some emotion into that task and maybe make you cry when you see a map, which would be the ultimate resolution of those two conflicting things. next we have david mcconville. his passion is linking art, design, and it science and the pursuit -- to complete -- address global challenges. i would have to say his motto is --

system, stupid. right? he is co-founder of the illuminati design and engineering firm and its creative director of a collaboration of artists, scientists and educators using storytelling of dialogue around the community and science centers across the united states. finally we have kenji williams. he is an award winning film maker, a music producer, a theatrical show director and a classically trained violinist. he also is linking art and science. you can see a thing shaping up here. -- you can see a thema shaping up your. he has worked with -- right brain left brain functions together.

he has toward eight countries and reached 200,000 people in that person and about 6 million through on-line and tv. we will be lucky enough to have a performance this week. when will that be? >> tomorrow at 4:00. >> before we launch into it, -- what is big business? >> it is a bit of a marketing term at this point in time. it is an opportunity for companies to sell your stuff. there is an underlying change afoot. the volumes of data we are generating ourselves and that are being generated perhaps in the next 10 years it will increase by two orders of magnitude. but is generated by machine that are measuring things in a

more aspin today. -- much more automated way than today. we are analyzing the data in real time. obviously from an environmental aspect, there are benefits for us measuring the environment data. >> what would you like to add to that? >> he is right. [laughter] it is not something new. we have the new capacities for collecting more of this. i think as long as we have been around we have been try to find a clever ways to understand and interpret all of this information that we get going. big data is the latest iteration of that. >> where do you see yourself on this? >> i am an artist and i bring audiovisual experiences enhancing the data. i am going to talk about the importance of the emotional and personal connection and

storytelling of this data information we are awash in. >> let's see what it looks like. >> i was or it will miss started doing this, no slides this will make it difficult. visualization is difficult to talk about without images. this is an image you will see numerous times probably just in the next hour. potentially many times over the next few days. it is the famous blue marble image of the earth and space that is so familiar to us and has motivated many environmental organizations around the world. it has entered our consciousness. it is something we grow up being familiar with. what is interesting is something that has only been seen the by people with our own eyes relatively recently.

it has only been seen by approximately 20 people. on the astronauts that traveled beyond the earth's orbit. if you are at the international space station you do not see the blue marble. you have to go to the moon to see this sphere. this is the first crew to see it, the crew of apollo 8. this has become familiar to us now because through visualization, through technology this has become more accessible. it has become more 6 -- accessible because we have access to information about our planet and the utilization of that information through mass- market tools. what you are looking at was the blue marble as seen through google earth. we decided initially as an experiment with a bunch of

computer engineers to see how well the latest generation of computer graphics and technology could operate. we were looking for a problem. visualizing the earth's data and many scales was one of those. we had no idea at the time the actual emotional impact it would have on society. very small things we can change can have an impact really visualize information. there you will see google earth without boundaries draw on. you can switch them on and off. the boundaries cause us huge challenges try to get nations to agree on where boundaries are in parts of the world. just drawing the globe without boundaries in itself is incredibly powerful. it is something that is very accessible to people now. how many people here have not

used google earth? there are a few strange people in the audience. very few. that is not surprising. it has been downloaded by 1 million users. -- 1 billion users. i am still shocked by that figure. 1 billion users is a proximate to the number of people that use facebook and twitter combined. people using google earth and the viewing their home planet is a big community as those famous social networks. we all approached google earth in the same way. mr. by positioning into our home. we identify the parts of the world we know really well. we start to tell narratives. that is where i live. that is where i might go shopping. that is my return to work and where my kids go to school.

we develop a relationship with the information because it is familiar to us. even though we are looking at images that may have been acquired for more likely aerial photography. that trust -- that relationship is important. omega to parts of the world we have never visited, we may never visit. but we look at the rainforest. we are using a tool we know and understand and trust because we have used it in places we recognize. it also visualizes information in it which we are familiar with. i understand maps. i can read maps. i do not have many problems with them. many people struggle with maps as a way of visualizing information. we need to think very carefully as scientists are environmentalists or policy

makers how do we visualize. what tools do we used to tell the story to provide a narrative that is important to us. how do we see the world? i want to carry out a thought experiment with the. this could be dangerous. i will explain why. i want you to think of a location. close your eyes every body. think of the city of sydney, australia. open your eyes. how many people saw this? amazing. how many people saw that? we do not think in terms of maps. they are very useful if you are carrying out a specific task. if you want to go to the hotel

you are staying at. that is not the way we visualize the world. we visualize the world in three dimensions, standing on a street corner. recognizing that fact and that different people visualize the world and connect and have different levels of cognition with different types of visualization is very important. we recently announced an upgrade to google earth that will take 3d visualization to the next level. this is a 3d model of san francisco. you're not actually seeing the city. we are seeing the world pretty much as if you were flying over it in a helicopter. this is a powerful technology. what is really interesting from a technology point of view is this something we have developed from the get go to work on mobile devices. this is not something you need a pc to run.

this will run on your mobile phone or tablet device. people have started to use the technology to try to visualize and represent more complex data than what the world looks like. i get a couple of projects a few years ago with a government agency responsible for measuring climate change. it produces a visualization of the temperature change estimated to be the case over the next 50 years. they brought up youtube the videos of scientists that would talk about what would be the particular impact of climate change on water availability. it was great. we got to stand on stage with

the prime minister and we got numerous press coverage. actually not many people visited the site. those who did visit the site really did not connect with it. they did not understand what was going on. most people did not understand how it would impact them. this was all very well. this was all abstract and cold. we have to think beyond traditional data utilization. how do we connect more with the communities of people who are getting access to this day tat. this is a nice example. this is a website put together by some computer enthusiasts in switzerland that allows you to visualize the location of every aircraft flying over switzerland in real time. this is something that very few governments have the capability to do. he has a bunch of guys working

out of their bedrooms connecting a network of radios that pick up a particular radio transmission that all airliners give to be able to visualize their traffic around the world. it is done from the bottom up. recognizing the fact often the heart is more powerful than our brain what we really want to drive home a message. our limited experience are things like this. this is a website we built very quickly after the tsunami and the events that happened in japan and making use of street you. -- street view. that is our ability to capture street level photography. identify the particular parts of japan that had been impacted by the tsunami.

literally it is a before and after. this was the imagery of this village before the tsunami. this is something we are all familiar with. we may do this and our own neighborhood. we wanted to drive from the actual impact of the tsunami. if we click to the post tsunami of the same area. this really drives home the impact of that disaster. by being in the same place. by having the same tools. that level of trust and understanding. we can portray quite a powerful message using that technology that is now accessible to us. i leave you with a challenge, and this is a challenge you will have heard. this is a question i continually ask my colleagues that google. when did a map last make you cry? if you are a cartographer there are some really bad maps in the world may make you cry. in terms of a media and the way of communicating information,

books, tv shows, movies do. they tug at the heart strings. maybe it is the case this technology is too new. we have not learned how to use these tools to really drive home messages. hopefully today we will learn a little bit more about the directions we are going in. i would like to carry on the conversation with the. this is where i am on line. thank you for listening. [applause] >> i would like to talk a little bit about problem-solving today. my current trajectory of visualizing big data began with a burning man about a decade ago when my good friends visualized at the planetarium wanted to take it out.

my company was making this hardware in the dome. he had worked with engineers and scientists from all over the world to create this incredible visualization platform inspired by the powers of 10 film for those who had seen that. the work didn't -- creating the new models of the universe that represented $10 billion of astronomical observations. it was such a big hit that my company decided to go mobile with it. we created these inflatable structures. we take them all over the world. they are installed all over the place. universities, elementary schools. the idea is to be able to use perceptual emersion as a way to embarrass people within maps to help people cry with maps. we can have these profound experiences. i have been very fortunate to be able to use these tools for the past number of years.

i have been working with scientists across the u.s. in a world views network. we are primarily within science centers but also working with communities as you see in denver, new york, san francisco. we have been fortunate to be able to present in a wide number of places. the strategy is to use big data to demonstrate the interconnectedness of phenomenon across cosmic a global and by our regional scales. we combined design thinking to really encourage communities to participate in dialogues about how our collective actions shape the future of the planet. i will not show any of this because kenji uses a lot of the same data and software that he will be showing later on. i have been able to give presentations to a lot of audiences. i have noticed something comment.

-- common. for the most part, the universe is made of stories, not atoms. this is very wise. no matter how much to data you have, if you do not have a compelling story, it is meaningless. something else i have noticed is something i was surprised by this. a lot of people have a very old model of their universe and their head. they really think of the cosmos in this mechanistic way that things are very -- this is an idea that emerged in the 19th century after the first scientific revolution. the cosmos is very predictable. if we just gather enough data we can predict everything. in the 20th century we had another scientific revolution that is still ongoing. our idea of the universe is evolving and we're starting to understand it is a really whole series of complex adaptive systems. we are witnessing how the breakdown of stable systems

often results in new forms of organization. we are recognizing these patterns across different scales. perhaps the most importantly, scientists continue to discover that in every skill of reality from the quantum to the cosmic that everything is interconnected. the most profound example of this is really the life support systems of our own planet. this realization of a paradigm is really internet -- interconnected complex city is challenging many outdated assumptions that explain the way things work. that is, causing cognitive dissonance. it is particularly true with economics right now. the neoclassical foundations of our economic system is based on this 19th century. we have been ignoring the true impact of our actions on a global scale. today some economists are really trying to connect all of these problems we're trying to address.

our ability to predict the future is really only as certain as our risk horizon and how far out we're going to paint to that. this economy we are discovering is a wholly owned subsidiary of the biosphere, not the other way around. they are using all of the data to look at the global phenomenon. we are tipping toward the unknown. we are in this high-stakes game of crossing these boundaries that has a safe operating system for humanity. there is a bigger problem here. the challenge to think globally is not something we are really evolution nearly prepared to do. we have not effectively the ball from savages yet. -- evolved these strategies yet. scientific visualization can be

useful to providing context with these complex issues across many disciplines in order to help develop innovative approaches to problem-solving. and my research and to help understand how we can wrap our head around this stuff, i began looking into the work of fuller. many decades ago he started realizing the potential of storytelling. we spent much of the 20th century laying the groundwork for the development of new conceptual tools that would increase understanding from a global perspective. this was a massive undertaking. he refined approaches to this have on century experiment to see what a single individual could do to benefit all of humanity. he wrote 23 books about poetry, geometry, design, cosmology. 28 patents from cartography, 47 honorary doctorates from universities. he was actually the most documented human in history. he kept a detailed log of his life from 1920 until 1983 when he died. is an incredible archive that

is now at stanford. it can go in and get an extraordinary snapshot of what was going on in the 20th century. a lot of people know him as the dome and died. even the dome was an example of one of his many attempts to apply nation -- nature's principles to design artefacts that do more with less. this is the occuring theme throughout his life. we have the ability to recognize these symbols. we do more and more with less and less. we hope that by demonstrating this out of a comprehensive approach to problem-solving, we can transform the self-image of humanity into what he calls exquisite local universe problem solvers. throughout his life he maintained the biggest challenge facing us was that overspecialization and a failure to see the possibilities of the big picture was really one of the things stopping us from breaking through with massive renovation.

-- inniovation. this is an idea that emerged from the 19th century that the best way to understand reality was reducing it to its component parts. reductionism. get it? he also realized the global economic system was based on this same outdated story. the assumption of scarcity was embedded within the dominant neoclassical economic paradigm. this was based on a belief that an exponential population growth would cause a catastrophic crisis of global resources. he claimed the modern society assumes it is impossible to fulfill the needs of everyone. this led to the misapplication of the notion of the survival of the fittest which was an appropriately model from the evolutionary theory to justify social economic policies. by believing the stories they actually become self-fulfilling

prophecies. we challenged these notions. we began envisioning ways in which the global future of humanity could look to innovations to solve multiple problems simultaneously by anticipating the complexity we are facing, he became convinced the old story of economics was really not in the long-term interests of all of us as a species. he started developing numerous approaches to what he called making the invisible visible. he was try to help communities and world leaders find new ways to realize instead of extractive economic approaches we can be regenerative it. this is a 1956 drawing of his many earth as a constant reminder to delegates we share one planet. he also wanted to be able to see the whole earth and an undistorted way on flat maps. and he developed this map

projection to help visualize the extent to which land masses are one interconnected island and the ocean is one big interconnected ocean. to make the tools useful he collected data to keep track of global trends over many decades. this is a particular when he did. it is a graph of communication around the world. it was shrinking our plans for the last 500 years. so he took all of these observations and worked with students to develop the first comprehensive inventory of the world resources human trends and needs in 1965. i attempted to define what they call their maximums of food, water, energy, housing and other areas to enable everyone to realize their full potential. we do not hear a lot about people envisioning that.

we hear a lot about futures, but what does it mean to provide for everyone? this was essentially brought together in a world game. it was intended to help players understand the planet through the lens of this big day he had been collecting to design a world that works for 100% of humanity. very much like what we are doing with our software tools, he worked with prototype displays so he could visualize the planet. these are energy hot spots around the planet. he also designed a prototype world resource stimulation center in which -- simulation center in which they could see the flows and phenomenon. the idea was to have them stand up and get a sense of the illusion of separateness forced on us by our political boundaries. by 1972 he determined that

because of the ever increasing technological ability to do more with less and our understanding of the extreme efficiencies of ecological systems that for the first time in history it is actually possible to take care of everybody at a higher standard of living than anyone had ever known. all of humanity had the option to become enduring and successful. this might sound hopelessly utopian, but he was not pollyannas about our prospects. he stated it bluntly that everything really is touch and go. our options are utopia or oblivion. it is everybody or nobody. a lot of this was not realized in his lifetime. he predicted it would not be happening for another 50 years or so. the full scope of the world policy gain was not realized in his lifetime. it demonstrated the profound capacity of one individual can do on this planet. he insisted the best way to predict the future is to design it.

even on his tombstone he gives us this primary design metaphor that when you understand complex system to confined a small rudder on a plane or boat to that shifts the whole trajectory. if we are using a capacity to understand complex systems we can find leverage points. a lot of what we do now is look for these projects that are solving multiple problems simultaneously instead of using specialize strategies, we are trying to understand the interconnected challenges facing humanity. that we can work much more efficiently within these systems. i was so inspired by this, i hope -- i helped run the organization now. we have been running a challenge program to find out what these projects look like today. this is all fun and good but you need to see a body meant to see what this looks like. we are looking for a whole system approaches that are revealing what i would suggest are the news stories of

humanity. going toward redundancy restoration and regeneration. this yearly $100,000 prize is awarded for designs to help the world work for 100% humanity in the shortest possible time for spontaneous cooperation without ecological offense or to the disadvantage of everett -- anyone. the kind of set the bar high to see what comes back. we had no idea what would happen when we started doing this. we are getting a number of submissions every year that are phenomenal. we have the most amazing minds on the planet thinking in the big picture systems. i found through my work with the world views networks these projects of the stories we need to be telling. is fine and good to talk about the big picture and all of these problems, but people have to see what people are doing. i have to see what is possible.

we have been asking people to be able to publish these projects and what we call the idea index. we have a number of these online. i invite you to go and check them out. we're starting to explore the way we can combine these and see even more synergies emerging from different projects. just as an example, some of the winner is -- this is a project called the challenge of up lhasa. to develop these living machines that he uses to remove toxins from water naturally. he has been using -- doing it for 40 years. he has a proposal of what to do with the west virginia. west virginia is being decimated by the coal industry through a mountain top removal mining. there are huge lakes of toxic sludge. it is deteriorating the conditions for a lot of communities there. he has a strategy of how to restore it restate.

this is unprecedented. we have to start thinking restorative lee. they have developed a transportation system using on demand systems for electric cars and scooters. he is 3 growing grasslands using cattle. projects and madagascar are, projects that are leap frog in. is unbelievable what is going on out there. have to focus our attention on this and tell ourselves these stories. at one. fowler argues, you cannot fight existing reality unless you start to build new models. the same is true of stories. we need new stories. we need new models. the old reality is not functioning anymore. it boils down to a very simple

story. i would challenge all of you to consider to adopt it. thank you. [applause] >> good afternoon. >> good afternoon. my name is kenji. i am here to talk about bringing the motion and the heart and to date it visualizations and using bella gaia as an example. it is not what you say but how you say it. it is a very brief background on how this all happened and reiterating some of the images and stories that have been spoken. i met a nasa astronaut who told

me of his story about how he looked out the window at the space station and had a complete transformation the first time he saw the earth from space. i was so inspired by his story that it got me thinking, how could i bring this transformative experience of seeing the earth from space for those of us who cannot go to space. the term for it is called the overview effect where many astronauts have this transformative experience seeing the earth from space. this " really underlines the point i am trying to make. we are awash in information, but we need to bring a message in our hearts and bring the subject of any hard together. a 2008 study on the general public, only 4% responded emotionally to the work -- the word of climate change or

global warming. there is a huge disconnect with the obstruction of our global challenges. -- the abstraction of our global challenges. going beyond the naked eye of what astronauts can see through data visualization, -- they can see things we cannot say with a naked eye. this is an example of comparing one type of data set, which is a still photo of active fires. if we use some different tools and music, we can really bring it into a different experience. i do not know if we have audio here. ♪ this clip profoundly affects people. talking about crying during maps, this one makes everybody

cry. this is another example of information -- a bar graph of oil consumption by country. here is a depiction of it and bella gaia using a google birth map geographically on to the image of the planet. increasing research about how the brain works and how we learn and how we learned through memorable experiences. a study found memorable experiences result from complex

brain dynamics that allow people to interpret experiences in ways that make the world we live and the mars within. visual storytelling recruits -- it serves as a doorway to higher cognitive abilities of the inner cortex. -- neocortex. it brings sold to data. whether we are processing and permission to perform an action, communicating with others or a learning environment, the artistry of developing data information is now out of necessity evolving rapidly. ignoring emotional thought constricts the potential for complex information to be absorbed by many people. people need an emotional connection to a subject for it to be engaging and meaningful to them. this is an amazing information from nasa from ocean temperature. is part of our ocean chapter and bella gaia.

i now have four astronauts who say that bella gaia makes them feel like they are really back in space. we have astronauts vouching for the experience. it exists also as an expanded ensemble performance with various musicians. this shows you some of their large scale screens we performed on. we performed at conferences, schools, and universities, are to theaters. we just performed a in houston. we have a cultural component, too. personalizing information. we have a cultural experience really drawing a connection between cultural heritage and the national heritage. there has been so many people

coming up to me in tears after the show. i am always incredibly moved by their feedback of the project. 80% of the audience members say they experience a profound shift in perspective of our planet. as well as global cultures. nasa has recently funded us -- awarded as a grant to use bella gaia an information program for k-12 kids. we first you start to engage them into the science and we followed that with western scientific workshops as well as indigenous wisdom workshops. another amazing feedback i got from kids was that -- they said

i have seen the gulf oil spill on the news, but seeing get like this was a completely different experience. we had no idea it was like this. that is another story that i have heard of the real difference in how you tell the story. i might add also that the first female astronaut who shot the imax footage for the blue planet film. when she came back from space, she expected the imax imagery to make her feel like she was right back in space. when she saw the raw footage it did not make her feel like that. only when the orchestra was scoring the music for the film and she was sitting there experiencing it with music that tears came to her eyes. she felt like she was right back in space.

80% of the experience is the music and audio. i would like to close with it tomorrow at 4:00, we have a 60 minute show at the auditorium. i will give you a little sample performance. a nine a minute little thing right now for you to get an experience with it. thank you so much. [applause] ♪ ♪

>> for the first time in my

life, i saw the horizon -- obviously, this is not what i had seen. ♪

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♪

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[music fades] [applause] >> thank you. >> thank you. that really was the death to make you cry. did that really was a map that could really make you cry. there are so many questions i have. time is very short so i will throw it out to the audience. i want you to have the maximum amount of time. we will try to get there as many as we can in the limited amount of time still available.

would anyone like to lead us off? >> it was a wonderful presentation. i am with the legacy foundation. we have a map that will make you very sad. we are using data visualization to talk about our work. we have a map that shows tobacco statistics and its affect on the health of the economy in the nation. do you know of any significant examples of companies that are using data of visualization to talk about their missions? but there are many. one of my favorites. there is an organization called appalachian voices.

they take the mountaintop removal and the actual -- and the scale of the removal. you do not actually see the scale of it. so they trace the area of the mountaintop removal mine sites. they say, type in your zip code and i will overlay that in an area you are more familiar with. you end up with a mind the size of manhattan. where i lived in the united kingdom, it was most of southern england. it brings to you the scale of the problems by connecting it to your local environment. that is where the new technologies have become really powerful. shading in a map in very pretty colors is still quite assistant -- abstract to people. actually bringing home information and portraying it in a sense that is personal to

people is really powerful. it is still something we are learning how to do. that is a good one to check out. >> next question. let me throw one out quickly while -- in the back? ok. here is a microphone coming up for you now. >> i used to work that satellite control launch centers. our astronauts listening to music when they are up there? what kind of music? >> i know that they do. >> what is on their playlist? i heard mike listen to enya. >>sort of massage music. yes, sir?

>> [unintelligible] >> privacy and google. >> this is something we in the rest of the industry are learning as we move along. i think we were having the discussion earlier about street you and how street view was launched here and enter the united states a few years ago with a very little problem. we thought that would be the case around the world. actually different cultures and nations have different views of privacy. they have different cultural restraints. the example i like to use is in the united states and europe, we put the camera about 1 meter above the roof so you can see

over parked cars and buildings and shop fronts. in japan, the cultural norm is to have a large wall in front of your house. having the cameras on top of big posts was a big issue for them. we had to redesign the system, a move the camera lower so you see -- what somebody would see if they were walking down the street. i think we need to better understand what people's own level of willingness to share is and give people much more granular controls. ok, i will share my location with you. in return i will get these services. if i choose not to, it should be easy for me to make that choice. i think that is where we are coming to. we did this before. we need to say, use this

information you have given us and this is what we will use it for. if you do not like it, that is the switch that will stop you from being able to do that. that is something we will get better at overtime. >> one of the big complaints of st. review and germany is you were picking up wifi signals and getting data that -- >> that was a huge mistake. we developed some code -- the idea was to pick up wifi signals because that is a good way of locating where you are. one engineer made a mistake that they also picked up some of the message is going across and ununscripted networks. -- unencrypted networks. >> is that still happening? >> no. >> same thing in connecticut? >> not happening. >> can you comment on if there is x amount of data today, in

the future with all the new data, what is the growth in just the storage of all of the data? >> that is a good question. think of your pc at home and how that has grown in the last few years. that will give you some indication. when we first bought pcs we were not downloading tv, movie programs at all the rest. if we followed that patent, you could see as a doubling every few years. it will be much worse than that. machine to machine communication, the internet, there will be all kinds of magnitude. thousands of times greater in the next few years as these devices, online and collect more information. it is an ever increasing haystack that we need to identify the needle in. it is really a matter of shifting to the ways in which we

are thinking about ourselves and society as being integral with ecological systems. the more we can use our tools to be able to see that big picture, the more we are doing our job. >> how do you get out the word on something like this to our people to work climate deniers? >> i think it is a tendency, especially with an education, to segment the way we look at these issues. we think of the smallest possible things. recycling water bottles, you are trying to steer the ship. i think the real opportunity is to look at our education systems, to start looking at how

we use the interactive capacities and a collection to help people really commit their lives to redesigning civilization, in a sense. we called for nothing less. it is not the personal behavior changes are not critical. it helps us connect with the larger cycle of life. but that should not assuage any guilt or frustration. we need to shift the way we are thinking about as -- ourselves as a society. there is no difference between the social and ecological. once you see that, you see the brilliance people are able to use to design and innovate with that knowledge. it is profoundly inspiring. the more we can help people to use those tools, the more we are doing our job. >> clearly, you are evangelizing to the converted. how do you get out the word to people who are climate deniers,

or in nigeria, or some place where you are not tuned in to every week. -- to every tweet. >> i forgot to mention in my presentation that i have converted climate skeptics. i had been experience on the washington mall. this man was strolling through and started talking with me. we got into a heated discussion about climate change. after several minutes, i asked him. "take a seat." he watched the show, and afterwards, he said i think you have changed my mind. we have to be more creative than the way that we present information. do not underestimate the power and how we feel. humans act on how we feel, not how we think. >> your grant from nasa was for k-12 education. >> i am taking an everything approach.

the education is specifically for k-12. kids are the next generation. kids can also affect their parents, too. this show appeals to all generations and all families. a lot of our entertainment shows are for families. our eventual goal of this is to make broadway theater, where it can be an activity for tourists to go see. there is a real want and need for it. >> david? >> i think the problem is that we have become so convinced that we are separate from the broader non-human world. i did not care if you believe in climate change or not.

do you know what is going on with the oceans? land use? there are huge planetary possibilities for recognizing these boundaries. we need better ways of moving beyond this bipartisan approach to really help people to recognize there is a lot of stuff going on and climate change is not your thing, maybe you would care that of water reserves are tapping out in many parts of the world. >> the ceo of walmart was talking about what they were doing. where would you say the major points of leverage our? points of leverage our? getting to