even with democrats. so the narrative would have bnl that they would have been up four to 10 points at this point. >> so we found outglen -- who dd an e-book, "obama's last stand," is coming up and one revelation is why the president was so angry when biden showed their cards about gay marriage. the president wanted to do it with a friendly interviewer, and north carolina was a big reason. >> what was most interesting in that series and book was obama said to biden in the oval office, "everyone will try to divide us. we have to stick together." for them to acknowledge that

their staff and republicans, people wanted to divide the president and voice president. >> it came u during a owoodshed moment. that is where glen got this item. it was the two of them. the vice president was irritated because he felt the staff threw him under the bus. and the president doesn't, at all, embrace him. and at the end, he says this. >> it's so striking and paints an interesting picture.

everyone knows biden wants to be president and may run in 2016. >> we let you go home for a few days and this will start slower. most people will be around monday. this will continue on. we will fire on all cylinders. what news happens in charlotte and what do you hope to find out? >> i hope for a ton of news. one of my -- one thing i am looking for is hwo democrats are notejected, but deflated. deep in the minority, and if you talk to people -- they know they

won't win the majority this november. pelosi is the leader of house democrats. >> leader pelosi will be a guest for the politico series. >> she's not a popular person, nationally. leaderless, without direction. >> what is in your postcard? >> it surprised me how little news there is. i worked in the capitol, where there is always news. the rnc is different for me.

the national party committees -- it is interesting to see how those things work. >> e knew there was a lot of entertainment. a lot of the top figures and people who give speeches do speeches later for donors. christie talked to a luncheon of the republican governors. he knew there was bad buzz about the speech. he was on the wrong end of the expectations game. people thought he'd go after obama. he suffered from that. he said, people thought i was

too subtle." i refer to the white house, "who the heck did they think i was talking about?" new jersey, if said in this isn't the second gettysburg address, it wil lbe l be tough. >> jake, thank you very much. we will welcome mr. ted cruz. soon to be senator cruz. check out the booth. >> it is required -- we check at the border. >> congratulations on the

speech. when ted cruz was speaking, you were one of the only who didn't podium.rompter or >> i am not a fan of podiums. it's more effective to talk hunk ofy and not have a unk o wood between you and the person you're talking to. now, it led to an interesting dynamic. the plan was there was a two- minute video after santorum spoke, but before i spoke. the plan was for the podium to drop during the video. and a piece of wood rolls over. they sent me out as santorum

walks off. there is this enormous pit about 15 feet. a few people aseked -- i said, i don't want to do a backflip into the pit. this dominated every thought. >> you beat the lt. governor and he was expected t obo be in good shape with his endorsements nad and money. >> we won from the message and grass roots. the country is broke. the debt is $16 trillion. it has been career politicians in both parties who got us here.

we talk about the need to not spend money we don't have. that message resonated with texas voters. the second reason was grass roots. when we started a year and a half ago, nobody in texas thought i had a prayer. i was at 2% in the polls, with a 3% margin of error. my opponent was a universal name id with unlimited cash. he put $25 million into the campaign. we spent 18 hours a day crisscrossing the state in ihops and vfw halls and we saw

activists come together. it was incredible for the grass roots. >> sherman will be covering you -- i will come to him next. first, the mechanics of your victory. people watching are junkies who understand the mechanics of politics. what is the most literal thing? >> it was the grass roots. in person, going and sitting down with activists and talking about my record, and answering their questions. listening to them, a shocking thing to do. >> in iowa, all the candidates went to ranch.

what is the pizza rach inch in texas? >> we have 254 counties and i ewent to all of those with good populations. some are very far out but every town has its own community. it has local activists. i will tell you what a grass roots campaign is. maggie is a retired grandmother from burless. she erected a billboard for heour campaign in her truck and drove across the state of texas, giving out 1,000 yard signs. she wasn't on the staff. she was passionate about turning

things around. dwyane schafer -- an active conservative. he has a serious surgery, potentially life-threatening. anesthesia. of one of his sons texted me and the first thing he said was, 'what are tehe exit polls?' >> that's hardcore. >> they define politics as super pacs. you understand the law. america is put off by the unlimited money into elections and races. do you think they should change d or altered?

>> the way i'd change them and the way you would are slightly different. this is all driven out of the mess of campaign finance reform. the current campaign finance laws exist to protect incumbents. they were drafted by incumbent elected officials. that is their intended effect. >> and have to be changed by incumbents. >> i believe in free speech. if it was up to me, i'd require immediate disclosure. if there is someone who cares passionately about the race -- and the incumbents cna shake

down lobbyists and don't need funding. >> what would you change? >> i'd have them write checks to the campaign. they write it to the third party. they have ads supporting me. i have no say. it is a ridiculous system. let the voters decide who they agree with. >> you talked about taking money from lobbyists? >> i will welcome money from anyone, including reporters. buti will go to stephen

what was it like to work with judge renquist? >> he was a deeply principled conservative and a man of -- he was a down to earth man from milwaukee. mostam rehnquist had the staggering memory. >> you don't want that in a boss. >> we'd meet in his chambers and he would turn to clerks and he'd talk about some case, smith vs. jones. he said, "you don't happen to know the citation for smith vs. jones, do you?

and you say, "no." volumes.l the printend he'd say, "try 309 u.s., around page 407." he had everything he read. i was honored to be a pallbearer at his funeral. his son said, "i would be tempted to say he forgot more history than we know, but i don't think he forgot anything." >> you are to the right of romney on immigration. is this a problem? >> i think a lot of labels are artificial. i think we should secure our

borders and stop illegal immigration, but should not just welcome but also celebrate legal immigrants. most americans agree with that. >> where's the clearest place romney?ere witr with gov. >> stephen, do you have a question? >> testing? >> you don't? ted, we're longtime friends. one question i haven't asked you. what are your favorite books? with a good, red-meat book for young conservatives?

>> one of my favorites is "atlas shrugged." it had a huge impact on me. we are living in the days of "atlas shrugged." one thing rand talks about is the parasite class -- the yy establish systems where everyone is working for a living to gome on bended knee becuase ause the standards are so arbitrary. it is a system we see. you look at obamacare.

the waivers are almost perfectly correlated to those who are politically connected to those in power. you look at dodd-frank, when they have authority -- >> what's a fun book?" > >> it is "the princess bride." >> have you given thought to the sequester, in how you -- >> this is a mess. congress didn't do its job. they face a situation that is a real problem. i think congress has to resolve this before i get there. >> good luck.

>> we have to address this -- we need serious budget cuts. the sequester is just using na an ax. the enormous cuts from the defense budget aere not justified. hopefully, we will do something. we need to be serious because this is unsustainable. >> you were endoresesed by sarah palin. >> it was a game-changing impact. >> would you win without her? >> i don't think i would without any pieces. this was like don quixote. we took on a big windmill and

needed all the endorsements we had. if you look at senate racest, gov. palin has had a game- changing impact. the reason this is true, i don't think people appreciate it. in a republican primary, everyone claims to be conservtive. they get to office and become spineless jellyfish. it is hard to find out who is telling the truth and who is blowing smoke. if sarah palin says someone is a conservtive -- he is the real deal. it is a signalling effect. >> was there another single

endorsement? >> hers, hands down, had the greatest impact. what won the race for us was seening conservatives unite on the ground. it's not supposed to be a handsful of men and womaen in a smoky room picking the office holder. >> you declined to endorse john cornyn for leadership. >is it awkward? >> that is not an issue. >> did you talk? >> i expect we will walk side by side, and -- >> more generally, you were elected for your independent

mind. do you expect to work with the leadership -- >> there will be differences. but there are charicatures about republicans and people. in washington, people are surprised the tea party guy is supposed to be a barbarian. listen. we are in a time of crisis. is anythingk there extreme about living in our means. and this is a radical statement. and the question of cooperations. i am happy to work with

republicans and democrats, i'd work with martians if they are willing to be serious about shrinking the size and power of the federal government. >> mr. cruz, you talk about opportunity conservatism. >> this is what i think should be the central, animating focus of conservtive domestic policy. that this should focus on the ascent -- we both look at the economic ladder. they want to reach dow nann and move them up. the problem is it never works. the only way anyone climbed

the economic ladder is pulling themselves up one run at a time. when my dad came here, 18 years old, penniless and washing dishes. ant --im to become dependent what they should focus on is having individuals take responsibility for their lives. give a fish, he'll eat for the day, teach a man to fish, he'll live for a lifetime. the miracle of the american dream. >> we have the hook on my question. people are fascinated with your victory and know you will be in power. how have you been treated?

>> it has been fantastic. the celebrity -- are the delegates from across the country. >> how are people reacting? >> you get a variety of people. they say, you will cut a lot of deals. you will go along to get along. a lot of people are too eager to cut deals. i believe in free-market principles. i don't think we should bankrupt the country. >> some people assume you'll go native in washington? >> that is a fair assumption. i have told activists that our philosophy should be like reagan's, "trust but verify."

i say, hold me accountable. i will fight every day to shrink the size, power, and spending of the government. if i don't do that, play this back to me. i make a prediction. this clip will gather dust. >> in addition to a supreme court lawyer, you are good at poker. >> understnand what your opponents want to do, and do the opposite. italian.n, irisn, anh, and i like reading people and getting something done. >> thank you for joining us. 3:00 pmme byoyou back at

for a snack with gingrich. thank you for coming out early. mr. cruz, thanks for a fantastic conversation. >> we've been bringing that to you on c-span. thank you for checking that out. we continue with "washington journal. " things cap off with romney's speech. joining us is scott helman, from "theboston globe," and the author of "the real romney." tell us about the picture painted of romney.

what is the message they want to get out about him? >> i think they want to get out a number of things. what we've seen so far and tonight, in principle, is to bring a sense of mitt romney, the man. his life, character, experiences. those are either not getting through or being misinterpreted, perhaps. as many romney supporters say, obamary are sullied by and his team. i think he has to redefine himself. this culminates tonight with his speech. and we see an effort to cast him as the natural leader of a party wanting to reform.

romney is a good candidate with high levels of competence. the mr. fix it guy. i think those are teh two things we've seen. this will amp tonight. >> scott helman is the co-author of "the real romney." let me read this from the prologue. there are many who have known or worked with romney. he is sometimes looking not into your eyes, but past them. it can make him seem too self- aware. even some of his closest friends don't recognize the man they see from afar. how well did mrs. romney paint a

picture of her husband, and how important is it to get a clearer sense of who he is? >> i think guest: very critical, and i think it was received, although more in the sense of who she is. she is better one-on-one, she is more personable. i think that came across. i am not sure she got deep enough into her husband's light to humanize him in a big way. a lot of that will be left to him. this has been a problem that mitt romney has had his entire political career. many people have noted that he is not ronald reagan, not bill clinton, not a great retail campaigner. he can be awkward, he can be off-putting. we see almost every week he says

something that feels a little bit of key. in his defense, that is not what he is selling himself as. he is coming in as the guy to knows how to get things done, has the courage to impose difficult solutions. on one hand, it is an issue, and voters want to be able to connect with him and like him, and he needs that to happen to win to a degree. but it is also not his principal pitch and i don't think it ever has been or will it ever be. "new: we see in the ne york times" de constructing ann romney's speech, at everything on her marriage to appealing to women, talking about her own roots, and trying to pay more of a picture of her husband on the public side. scott helman is our guest, and

if you would like to join the conversation, here are the numbers to call. let's get right to the phones. gloria is a republican. what city are you in? caller: darien, georgia, the home of paula deen. host: great, go ahead. onler: i'm going to base it my personal family history. my great-grandfather and my great great grandfather were overseers in south carolina. after the civil war ended, the governor died as a light was burning. there was no one left other than

my great-grandfather and all the slaves on the plantation. he told them, "you are now free, you can do anything you want to do. they said, "who is going to take care of bus?" he said, "it cannot be me. there is nothing here. i'm going to georgia." they followed him and continued to remain in servitude in exchange for being taken care of. that is exactly what i'm hearing from a lot of the voters that are for obama. "what about my check,""what about me," "somebody has got to take care of me." on the other hand, we have the republicans, who are like the americans who faced the

depression. there is nothing here. we have got to make something and we have got to make it out of nothing. it was hard. i remember my mother saying that she picked cotton all day long for 25 cents -- pregnant, i might add. but they raised children who were not growing up in a welfare system, raised children who were not in the juvenile justice system, they raised children that respected their elders and were more like what our founding fathers intended. host: scott helman? guest: well, i mean, that is a pretty severe dichotomy. certainly there are many people would object with that simple version of things. i don't think there are a lot of obama voters would be terribly

oppressed to be compared with the slaves. that is a very simplistic view of why a lot of people are going to vote for the president instead of romney. there are very different visions of the country we have laid out here, and i think it is very easy to fall back on these charges somehow if you are voting for obama, you are voting for big government and you just want to collect welfare check and said around and do nothing and not work. that is outrageous and palpably false -- patently false. certainly we can argue about policy implications of welfare and food stands and how much government assistance should be and what kind of taxes we want to pay to support what kind of social safety net system. but you know, i think it is a bit silly to sort of cast of these millions of people who are going to vote for the president and who voted for him last time as people who are lazily sitting around waiting for a check. i think there is no basis for that whatsoever.

host: scott helman, looking at a couple of stories in the news that are giving us a preview of who we will hear from tonight, not just mitt romney, but others speaking on his behalf, politico has a headline that says " romney friends to testify on his behalf." jodi kantor -- "convention voices hope to add texture to romney's fayed." we will hear from a jeb bush, campaign chair bob white, and at the founder of staples. and a self-described liberal democrat, african-americans of rights activist from massachusetts and very likely far from mitt romney on most social issues, according to politico. she served as a cabinet secretary under romney when he was governor.

we will also hear from former olympic athletes. what does this roster tell you, and what kind of message will be be hearing from these individuals? guest: i think what we will hear clearly is that there are all these people who have seen mitt romney in all of these times of his life and they have come away impressed with his skill and character and leadership. there are a lot of people like jane edmonds who are not died in double republicans from massachusetts who have worked with him over -- not dyed-in- the-wool republican from massachusetts who have worked with him over the years, and there are democrats who would vote for him in the privacy of the voting booth because they no him personally bec -- they know him personally and despite their ideological differences, they trust is leadership and an analytical mind and so forth.

we will see people who can speak to his leadership ability and his professional acumen, but also, people that offer insight into his personal life. one of the people supposed to speak is grant bennett, a mormon, close friend of the romneys, knows him very well and has lots of good stories about mitt romney the man. he has a funny story -- i don't know if he will tell it tonight -- about the time mitt romney came over and night to dislodge a hornet's nest. there are little moments throughout his life, of course, and the more you have people testifying to those and showing those, it goes to this larger goal about painting a much more complex, more three-dimensional picture of mitt romney, which is absolutely critical going into november. host: henry on our independent''

line hope, arkansas. hi, henry. caller: good morning to you. i have something i want to bring up, and everybody seems to avoid it it it it has to do with illegals. they are coming into this country by droves. how come obama is not doing nothing about them? they need to go home, because we are going to need the jobs. i am a retired person and i will probably have to go back to work in a field. if that is the white it is, i will not vote for obama. thank you -- if that is the way it is, i will not vote for obama. thank you. host: scott helman, immigration issues. latinos are much more supportive of obama and mitt romney at this point in the campaign, according to a story that was in "the

miami herald," immigration issues, the dream act, the economy -- the economy was the top 1 prius mitt romney going to appeal to that voting bloc? guest: that is what he is hoping, that they care more about the economy than anything else. this is something that mitt romney has changed his mind on, or least changed his tone. he was much more willing to accept a compromise solution on immigration. as he has courted the right wing of the republican party, he has taken a much harder line on illegal immigration, and in the primary, you remember him attacking rick perry and newt gingrich over their alleged softness on the issue. this is a really delicate thing for him, because hispanics are a very significant voting bloc. they favor the president. what he will do is say, look, the president promised to deliver on immigration reform

and he has not done that in a big way. more importantly, the economy is not doing well. a lot of you guys don't have jobs. i'm the one to turn this country around and build up the middle class. it will be wrapped in this kind of economic packaging. that is not true just for hispanics. there are various groups, when we think about who is paying attention to the election -- moderate women, for example, who may support abortion rights -- he has to hope that they will respond to his economic message and that these other issues will be secondary in their minds. host: atlantic beach, florida. chris, democrats' line. caller: good morning. my comment is that although romney is being touted as a great business person and really good for business, it seems as though he seems to forget that

not everybody is in big business, not everyone runs a big business, and therefore you have to relate to the people who are just worker bees, who just want to earn a modest salary and take care of themselves and their homes. you have ryan bringing out his mom. that does not impress me. his mom is a millionaire, for all intents and purposes. she does not have to rely on social security bid to bring her out is sort of a slap in the face to the average person. back to romney -- his big business ideas are fabulous if you are a wall street person or if you are possibly running a business. my husband is a small business owner himself. although he can relate to running a business, it is not as though he is running a business

like a someone running a multimillion-dollar or billion dollar business. i want to know, how can romney, who is supposed to be made more human and reliable, talk to someone -- human and relatable, talk to someone who has to do a social security thing, in addition to meager savings? host: thanks, chris. guest: i think chris raises a point that is a good one, and in many ways, this what the election will turn on. mitt romney has come to this campaign citing his business experience and background as things that qualify him the most trendy country around and create jobs and so forth. but you are -- that qualified him the most to turn at the country around and create jobs and so forth. but you are right. there are people who are not in

his economic echelon, and what what -- what what his policies to and who are they directed at? in the primary, he would say over and over things that were pretty insensitive to people who are the work middle class 3 week -- who are lower-middle class. getting rid. $10,000 as of that was not enough -- betting rick perry $10,000, as if that was not a lot of money. there were things that showed a .in ear i think that why that matters is when you look at what he is proposing, they are talking about big tax cuts that would benefit the wealthy. i don't think it is any secret why a lot of the wealthy donors and so forth are supporting him, because they knows he would be good for them if he gets in

office. there is the perennial fight about it was better for the middle-class -- about who is better for the middle-class. polling has shown that voters feel the president better understands the middle class and mitt romney. the perception is something he has to attack, and you may see some of that tonight. we have all of these people tuning in for the first time. this issue of who is going to be better for the middle-class -- yes, mitt romney has a sterling business background, but is it one that can be applied broadly to the bulk of the country, the 99%? these are the central questions over the next two months. host: mitt romney will be speaking at the 10:00 hour. he will be introduced by senator marco rubio of florida. you can watch that on c-span. we will be broadcasting at

live, doing gavel-to-gavel coverage from tampa of the republican convention. our guest, scott helman, is a staff writer at "the boston globe sunday magazine" and co- author of "the real romney." "the labor department said thursday that the four-week moving average, a less volatile measure, increase to about 370,000. applications are a measure of the pace of layoffs. when it they for consistently below 375,000 threshold, it generally suggests that hiring is strong enough to lower the unemployment rate. unemployment applications have risen slightly, although they are lower than at they were six weeks ago." joe, republican in south

carolina. hi, joe. caller: hi. i've been sitting on line for a long time. let me cut to the chase. most americans don't understand that the supreme court was right in voting obamacare has attac -- as a tax. it is a tax will affect the middle class, as well as those who are in business. it will raise the cost of living for most americans, not just the wealthy, but the middle-class and poor. xhey don't realize that the ta is considered a penalty, because you don't have health insurance. host: joe, what you think of the health care plans did that happen in massachusetts when he was governor? caller: what you think obamacare

is based off of? romneycare. it worked in massachusetts, the form that romney had. but i was doing research on the internet and looked up all the tax hikes in obamacare, and it is really going to hit hard when they do act obam -- they do reelect obama. host: scott helman? guest: there's certainly plenty to criticize in at plan if you want to do it. that is being litigated day in and day out. what obama and supporters would say is that the primary tax is a penalty, because in order to have a system where you needed to bring everybody into the health-care system -- this is what our experience in massachusetts has shown -- to

achieve near-universal coverage, the models only work if everybody buys in. with everybody buying in, you are getting more preventive coverage instead of going to the er, which is far more expensive. you are prevent insurers from cutting off people who have pre- existing conditions, you are allowing young adults and up to age 26 to stay on their parent'' plan. there are tons of new subsidies in the plan. if you cannot afford health insurance on your own, there's a way that premiums can be subsidized. i don't think i.t. is quite right to say that there are all of these taxes were this big tax and no benefits. all this new money does pay for something. there are enough people around the country who have been bankrupted by eight medical conditions, who cannot afford health insurance, small businesses that are being damaged by the huge premium increases.

we have this massive pool of people who are uninsured. you can disagree with it. that is perfectly legitimate. but there are big things that are happening in return for what you are talking about. host: give us a sense of the plan that romney established in massachusetts, which our caller call the romneycare. have people been talking about at the convention this week? guest: is a dicey thing. this was a really significant achievement for governor romney, by far the biggest thing he achieved in his years as governor. he worked across the aisle and invested time and energy at getting this thing through but he was a big supporter of it.

look, one of the main objectives has been accomplished, that almost everybody, with the exception of 1% or 2% in massachusetts, has health coverage. the second phase of that, which is to bring costs down, that is a little bit more to be determined. massachusetts is in the vanguard of that now. we just passed a bill that aims to usher in payment refor wi -- with how providers are compensated you have this achievement that is pretty successful, and yet he is not talking about it at all, because he thinks it is is radioactive. they are similar, and the plantects of the o obama

drew very heavily on massachusetts' experience. i don't know if we will hear about it tonight. my hunch is that he probably will, given that this is a pension hall full of republicans who have been caught again every possible criticism of government intervention into their lives. at the same time, there is a good story if he wants to tell it, particularly to a general election audience. this is one of the things that would give clues as to who he is talking to. host: jeremy is an independent caller. welcome. caller: thank you. by guy earlier was saying how romney's work history and background plays out -- hearing about bain capital and how a lot of people have got out of work, and even think about both sides

have never even touched base on the subject of the wars overseas, how they plan to go about bringing our soldiers home or even just to go about fixing releases with other countries, because as everything looks overseas, we're just bullying, the big, bad wolf in a way. when the world has a problem, we like to step in. close personal friends and everything -- trying to think -- he was saying about cutting the free trade thing, where we have money coming back in from the trades overseas and stuff, all of our offshore

dealings, all the companies that are pretty much closing up shop here in america and taking their business elsewhere. a lot of american people that had jobs here pretty much got outsourced to another country, where you have somebody on another phone line, like india or someplace else, somebody here could be doing the same thing -- host: jeremy, let's leave it there and hear from scott helman. guest: well, there is a lot to talk about there. if we're talking about foreign policy, this is an issue that we've not seen, for obvious reason -- we have not seen explored it as much in this campaign, for obvious reasons.

the president certainly knows that i -- whatever the cause of of what we are in now, he has to own that and convince people that he knows how to lead them to a better tomorrow. in the fall, will we hear more about foreign policy? obama -- it's funny, i remember him being criticized during his first campaign that he is this fresh-faced, what would he do during a world crisis. everybody remembers the hillary ad, the 3:00 a.m. phone call. you can criticize him if you want and say that we should be doing more in syria, war in libya, so forth, but this i -- more in libya, so forth, but this is an area where you will see obama vice president joe

biden place an offense in the fall. neither mitt romney nor paul ryan has significant foreign policy experience. romney has taken his share of the fact-finding trips, he was at the olympic spis. but this is the strength of the president and you will see them play this up and remind people that we got bin laden and wound down the war in iraq like we said we would, facilitated in this indirect way this transition of libya that is one of the things to watch in the fall. right now this week, a victim of the economy, economy economy, because for -- everything is going to be economy, economy, economy, because that is romney's winning message. host: hi, don. caller: i've been sitting here

listening to this conversation about the republicans, and i've come to the conclusion that we are going to end up back in slavery again, as far as i can see to it the things that they are presenting are just deals that will put everybody basically back into slavery. you don't have anything as far as advanced and out here in the public -- advancement out here in the public. you do need help from the government. you need programs to get people back to work and distribute some of the money for revenue, for tax payments and such. but now we have the republicans here, it they want to take everything away from everybody so that people won't have anything, won't have nothing to give. then what are they going to do?

it seems like we're just going back in time again, an american people, "republican american people"-- i guess the they are the american people, and other people don't count. i don't understand why they are putting us all in a welfare bag just because we are black people -- host: you saying everyone's expense, and now you are just saying african-americans? caller: yeah, we are -- host: let's leave it there and go to scott helman on race. how is he trying to get this across? there have been incidents on the floor that have concerned republican organizers but what is the tone in tampa and how

successful is romney's message? guest: you are seeing the organizers and the campaign make a concerted effort to have a significant minority representation at this convention. chief among them, condi rice last night's book about her background. you have up-and-coming hispanic republican politicians. there is a woman from utah, mia love, running for office, a black republican in utah. republicans know that they have a potential image problem here, and are trying to show that their party is not all white, not monolithic. romney's message and the party's message is that we want to lift everybody up and give everybody the chance to succeed and extend opportunity across the board. we don't want people overly dependent on government. dependent on government.