from boston, philadelphia, d.c. what is going on here? guest: it is a complex problem and one of the thing that hurts is the people that believe there is a silver bullet. it is more complex than that. host: people critical of the unions say that they are the reason we are in this situation. how do you respond to that? guest: the status quo is just not acceptable in this country. cut the dropout rate does not fluctuate like the dow jones and we have to figure out what to do about that. the international assessment of student achievement, the united states often comes in at about average, but they do not mention that if you take all the schools in america with less than 1% poverty, we are number one in the world. it says we're doing a good job for some, but not all. we have got to figure that out. we have got to figure out what

to do to overcome those obstacles to give the students an opportunity to succeed. host: you told npr just this last week that unions are losing education reform in and certain areas. host: one of the things we have to change is the whole -- who is coming into the teaching profession? there is no system for recruitment for public education. no business of any size could survive with that kind of turnover. it costs too much to recruit, train, and hire people. no one should be allowed in a classroom with 30 or 40 students as a teacher of record is not fully trained, license, or certified. from day number one to the last day in the plot -- in the

classroom, policy shouldn't dance practice with a good evaluations systems and feedback about what can be done differently to do better. we need good professional development to make sure we are constantly growing. we cannot just keep saying no to other people's ideas. we have to knuckle down and say -- here is what we believe in our professional experience and knowledge. host: why is it so difficult to get rid of teachers who are not performing? guest: first of all, i think it is easy and is done all across this country. when it comes down to a teacher that should not be there, no one wants them there. we need to have a fair and efficient system. fair to the employer, the employee, efficient in time and cost. the most difficult task is making sure the right people

are getting in the classroom. it makes it easy, no child deserves to be experimented on. they should a person is competent before they get in. host: what about the finger is being put on the chicago teachers union in blame? guest: my first year in teaching i believe that if i cared enough and work hard enough i could deliver for every student, but it is not possible. there are so many decisions made outside the classroom that inside the impact my students, i

have to have a voice. teaching every day all day long, who does that? it was my union. host: let's talk about some of the other style issues. you have a high crime rate, a high poverty rate, a school lunch program -- how many of the students use the program for breakfast and lunch? how does that impact the teacher in the classroom with those situations? that is not even touch on the divorce rate. host: let me add one more thing to that, the number one reason for absence in elementary school is asthma. if diagnosed and treated, it is very manageable in most cases. when you named all of those factors, the answer is in the

list of factors. it is not just the list of teachers or the school district. we have to go to the community resources and say -- what are the obstacles that stand in the way of student success? together we have to figure out what we are willing to do to change the impact together. host: is the ratio at the top of the program? guest: it was part of the american recovery act. it was an influx of a lot of money. there were some things that we disagreed with. as we look at the new round, it is a little bit different. there is a great diversity in the race to the top and non-race to the top states. but it has to have signed off by the superintendent of the

school board and the union, and if you do not have the collaboration, you cannot make any sustained change. we dislike the competitive nature, because too much impact the schools based on this crisis. is not just some that need relief. they all do. another focus of the next round is on early childhood education, which is where i think we need to focus our education. host: a long time math teacher in arizona public schools, our guest is the head of the national education association. phone lines are open. you can join the conversation on our twitter page. jerry is on the phone from illinois. good morning. caller: i had the privilege of teaching in chicago public schools my first three or four

years of teaching. it is absolutely very, very difficult. it is hard for people to understand how difficult it is to teach students with those needs. i left there and i now work in another district in the south suburbs. i think we are number one in the state for demographics. very high performing. we have so many resources and a lot of this teachers work nonstop. it is not always race, but poverty is indeed one of the most important variables. again, the education of your

parents -- that is why left chicago public schools. what i saw -- i had spent years in the army and it did not prepare me for what i saw in cps. when i left, i had to write a book. there were things that i could not understand that i saw. i remember bringing my students in one day and one student told me -- hey, there was this father, john father, maybe two blocks down, i look at that and it left an impression on me -- it was one of the many things i saw. host: thank you for the call. response? guest: he outlined it very clearly. there are areas we need to focus on in terms of combating the impact of poverty that have been held up around the world

is number one. 20 years ago, they were not there. one of the major changes they made was 1990, when less than 40% of children were in early childhood. it is a way of equalizing that opportunity before they come to school. i know of no family of need -- of means that denies the opportunity to try dance, music, all of these opportunities for young kids. why would we deny that to children whose parents did not have the resources to do that? that is the one area of investment in this country that will make the greatest difference. the results did not come in one or two years. it is very difficult.

host: let me share with you something from the front page. -- since 1987, the former mayor got the teachers' union to go along with various performances. -- reform measures. to cover these expenses, they borrowed heavily. those moves compacted with the recession have thrown it into a tailspin. it is -- it is a big hill to climb.

benefits you're promising, based on the income coming into the plan, this tells you how much we have to put into the plan every year. if you do that, it works. if you don't, it fails. it's happened in the private their pension system collapsed because this didn't put in the resources required. what happened in the end was government takeover, pension benefit corporation had to take it over with pennies on the dollars. we have to manage those funds and manage them well because economic or retirement security is something that's important to all americans.

it's sure in the debate with romney suggesting vouchers for medicare. people are understanding that retirement security is important, not just for us as individuals, but for a nation. and as our baby boomers are moving into the retirement age, we must address that. host: next caller from mio, michigan, david on the phone with dennis van roekel, head of the national education association, good morning. caller: good morning. i have much to add to this conversation. i believe. in raising my child, i was -- i assured myself that she was through the precalculus when she was through the eighth grade. i'm familiar with the catholic school system. then the next four years, i made sure that she was through the calculuses and knew the engineering nomenclature when i left high school. my father told me that in china and other parts of the world, children are educated at that level. here in america, a child goes through the eighth grade

wallowing in arithmetic and they're lucky if they're through the precalculuses when they leave high school. then they have to spend their first two or three years in college, learning the calculuses and then being fluent with the engineering nomenclature. they're you're being taught by some asian or european student that's well ahead of them already. host: david, as david talked about calculus and math, as a former math teacher yourself, what do you think? guest: we don't just teach arithmetic, geometry and algebra are moved back but he makes an excellent point, we don't have the number of well trained math teachers we need and part of that is the system that underscores education. in countries like finland and singapore, when they recognize that, they do an analysis every 3-5 years and what they want to do is make public and private service

comparable. not the same, comparable. so if you go into public service, it's not one fourth of what you would have made. i could have taught mathematics, i chose that. we need to deal with that. second thing, as a union we are leading in trying to change that. our new jersey affiliate, the new jersey education association, formed a foundation called the center for teaching and learning, that organization has certified more physics, science and math teachers than all the universities in new jersey combined and we want to expand that to other states. the idea that we need qualified people to be teaching our kids if we're going to close the gaps in mathematics around the world. host: what makes a teacher a good teacher? guest: bottom line is you have to know content but people assume if you know content you're a good teacher. i disagree with that wholeheartedly. i take it as a personal insult when someone assumes that anybody with a degree in

math was to have -- all i needed to do to teach high school. i never failed to reach a person because i didn't know enough math. the hard part is creating the environment, finding a way to help them understand when you have 35, 40 in a room but it's creating that environment where they can learn. you have to create in that learning space and understand why it's important to know what you're teaching. i always try to get my kids to tell me where they're going to be when they're 25 or 30 and use mathematics as the means of getting where you want to go. it's not an end in itself. getting an a in my precalculus class isn't enough. what i need to know is where you're going so i can show you what i teach math class and hear in english and all the other courses help you get to where you want to go. host: 're listening to mr. roekel, if you're just tuning in, our guest is

dennis van roekel, president of the national education association. jan has a point, new research has found that nurturing early in life helps the social skills and many kids lack parents that care. guest: there is no research that absolutely doesn't reinforce the power and potential in investing in early childhood education. it all says that. it's not a problem of not knowing what to do. it's the problem of not having the will to do it. we need to make that investment in our young people. it will do far more than any other thing we can do to take on the obstacles of poverty that poverty provides. it's the wave of the future. host: susan, boston, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. all the calls have been great. a couple of thoughts, although mr. van roekel kind of burst my bubble there, but i actually do believe that

subject matter, expertise, and a true passion and accomplishment, demonstrated accomplishment in an area of study, be it liberal arts or math or science, is actually the paramount to have an inspired teacher, especially in the struggling school districts where children are coming hungry, coming out of dysfunctional homes, parentless homes, homes where drugs and alcohol defines the family's possibilities and just their whole life situation. i just think that education pedagogy, if that's the word, are great and learning techniques are great but if you want to get children, especially those in struggling school districts, get people that just are phenomenal in their subject area and also give them permission to use primary sources instead of dumbed down, boring, poorly written textbooks and the

other thing i want to say is pay them more. i agree you get what you pay for in this world. i'm caring for an elderly parent and i pay these private care givers a lot more than the standard and in return i get phenomenal care and loyalty. the other thing i wanted to say is my sister adopted a child who came out of the department of social services system here in massachusetts, and she achieved custody after that child had come through the second grade in the boston school system, sadly, not only beuse of life circumstances but her education was abysmal, she had never read a book, functionally illiterate, had no math skills, that child is an intensive, classic, religious private school and it is still an extreme struggle for the child, she's never really caught up but she's making gains and this

is a very simplistic curriculum, very classic western canon based and the teachers aren't education majors, they are subject matter majors. host: i'll stop you there, thank you for your call and sharing your thoughts with us. i'll get a response. guest: susan, you have a lot of points. i agree, content is essential and i like what she said about the passion of the subject. i decided in seventh grade i was going to be a teacher and first decided to be a teacher, then i started thinking about which subject. well, i don't have that passion for poetry. poetry was difficult for me, but i loved mathematics, so for me, that was a natural choice. i think it is so important that we actually recruit people, because there are a lot of people with content knowledge and then we need to find the people who have the disposition, characteristics

that make it work in a classroom. and that is a very important thing we do. the other thing i would mention as a union, we took on what we call a priority schools campaign. others call them underperforming schools. we thought they ought to be named priority. they were in about 17 states, 39, where we're trying to figure out what do you have to do to overcome that. working in partnership, administration, school board and the union, reaching out to parents in the community, and we want to figure out the answer and spread that message far and wide. this next week i'll be visiting in evansville, illinois where working together they define the schools they believe need that intensive assistance, they developed an academy for principals, teachers and counselors who would work in that school saying what is it we need to know to address the needs of the children and now they're entering their third year. i'm really excited to be there and see the kinds of things they're figuring out that do make a difference in those difficult circumstances. host: one followup to susan's point from boston, if you are an educator and want to use

this network in the classroom, go to c-span.org and click on c-span in the classroom. it's your chance to use what we talk about and write about each day. click on c-span in the classroom. we turn our attention to public education, leta is on the phone from florida, our line for democrats, good morning. are you with us? caller: yes. host: good morning, go ahead, please. caller: yes. well, i understand we're in education now, so i'll just say one thing on education. i have a daughter who's in the eighth grade, who just started the eighth grade this year, and she's very bright, she's very smart, and she loves school. but my daughter cannot add and subtract without a calculator. this is very upsetting to know she's in the eighth grade and cannot add and subtract.

what happened to the cards, you know, the flip cards where you just learned simple adding and subtracting, multiplying and dividing? that went away with all the computers and everything. that's not education and yes, we need to do everything mr. van roekel says but this has been said time and time again, we need, we need, we need. no. we need to pay our teachers a little bit more money, concentrate on that, do it, and make sure our teachers are paid well. host: we'll get a response, thank you for the call. guest: you know, i thought long enough that i was there when we first started with calculators and computers, and back then, as i look back, we were debating the wrong question. people kept asking, should students use calculators in the classroom? and they would debate yes or no. i think the right question we should have addressed is when

should they use calculators and when should they not use them. as you mentioned, simple number facts they need to know. my geometry class, if you have to use a calculator to tell me what 12 squared is, we're in trouble. i need to know that. on the other hand, there are things where it would be simple not to use a calculator. it's when is appropriate, when is it not. there are certain times you should know it, certain times it isn't. host: assistant editor of education joined us yesterday on c-span's "washington journal", we talked about the issue of teacher evaluation and merit pay for teachers. here's part of that conversation: >> [video clip] this is probably the most controversial thing happening in the field right now, and teacher evaluations have been about things that

are arguably not connected to teaching and learning, so the bulletin board looks nice, do you dress professionally, so the person in the obama administration, the stimulus package, you mentioned race to the top, one of the initiatives that was funded through that in 2009, one of the polices there that was being pushed was overhauling teacher evaluations and one of the ideas was to use as one of several measures growth in student test scores. now, this is a complicated idea, it's not really been done before, there are legitimate, i think, research disagreements about whether these things can and should be used for teacher evaluation. but the idea of it is that you want to see not just -- teachers instructing kids and learning as a result of it. but typically what districts are doing such as the ones

you named are coupling the sort of complex statisticual test score calculations with observations in classrooms done by either principals or assistant principals, sometimes by other expert teachers. host: outlining the complexities, he picked up on two points. one is something we talked about earlier, teacher evaluation but also the testing of students and should that be a measure for the success or failure of a teacher. guest: he did an excellent job of defining a very complex problem. number one, teacher evaluation shouldn't be the evidence of student learning. the emphasis on math and reading have really disproportionately impacted the system. host: are we teaching students to test? guest: of course we are. when you label students, teachers, schools and school districts based on one test score that happens one day during the people, oh yeah, people do that, they narrow

the curriculum, they change practice within the building. it's an unintended consequence that's very harmful. the overemphasis on testing has harmed. as a teacher, i made tests all the time. we're not opposed to tests. but what we do need is tests that actually help us diagnose what we need to do more of, less of or differently to help a student succeed. it shouldn't be used as a high stakes label on teachers or students. and you know, the evidence of student learning, what about an art teacher, what about a science, history, civics teacher? the craziest example, in one school district where they had mandated that 40%, 50% was based on test scores, they said to teachers who didn't teach math or reading, choose the teachers whose test scores we use in your evaluation. that makes no sense. the other point about evaluation that i think is so important is what is the

purpose of evaluation. the arizona statute said the purpose of teacher evaluation is for the improvement of instruction. if that's its purpose, the design system where somebody observed me for 20 minutes a year doesn't make sense. if the purpose of evaluation is to improve my practice, then it ought to be tied to good feed back, it ought to be continuous, there ought to be multiple majors, a way to enhance my practice and know whether or not what i'm doing impacts student learning. host: back to the calls, randy from virginia. republican line. caller: i'm from williamsburg, virginia, and my comment is i own a small business called virginia is for education. i built unique mobile fitness facilities because of the outcomes of virgia tech, when they built a mobile science lab, and the outcomes that they had had in

southwestern virginia schools, in elevating scores in math and science, sadly, those divisions saw that trailer as a threat. i'm now feeling the same pressures from schools, where i've made over 1100 school site visits and haven't taken one date for this school year yet. my problem is that for instance, we have a pet grant, a federal grant here in williamsburg, $1.3 million to be spent over three years and to give you a for instance, the person running that program is paying herself $120,000 for a 40 week work year. the problem is we have universities around here that are so called training teachers on behalf of its money and there's no measurement on the training,

and when it comes to health and wellness for children and adults, americans, you train the client with people who have the skills and tools already. guest: the caller identifies i think something that we really have to look at closely and that is this whole privatization of education. i think investors are looking, there's no more money to be made in the housing industry, there's not a lot left to make in the health care industry, so they're now turning to education. it's almost a billion dollars a year industry. and that motivation, their purpose is to make money. we have to be careful that what the purpose ought to be is providing the program that actually enhances student learning. and it can't be piecemeal where you have multiple providers do it in essence, trying to, through p.r., convince a district this is the program you ought to do. we're going to have to build that into the system. systemic change that actually

provides the students what they need. especially as technology is changing so rapidly. i have great concerns of this push for virtual schools. i can't imagine a student going through elementary school, sitting at home with a computer. they miss all of the interaction with their peers, the whole collaboration, i just think it's the wrong motivation. i know there are better ways to do it but we need blended learning where you use a computer at home, as well as being in the classroom. we have things that we call it flipping the classroom where you learn or are exposed to content at home but in the classroom is where you have the discussion. so this whole area of privatization is one we need to look at, we need to look at the purpose and motivation behind it to what it ought to be is right for students, not what's right for the providers. host: this is from tom shipman who says the u.s.

spends $506 billion in education, $718 billion on defense, that should be reversed. let's go to steve, shreveport, louisiana, good morning. caller: good morning steve and good morning, mr. van roekel. mr. van roekel, i got my education, my high school diploma from overseas and honestly, i don't know if you all want to play games with this education over here, i don't know what it is. my daughter went to school over here, she was born over here and she went to a school and she became a lawyer. my daughter does not know how to multiply. i am so frustrated with education in this country. when i went to school back home, i was in third grade education, elementary school, i had to learn how to multiply from 1-100, and if i didn't learn it, i had to stay in the school until i learned it.

the teacher -- the idea of the family, they can control the school and make a fuss about it, this and that, this is not going to work. host: your response. guest: one of the things that i think will help us in this country do what you described, that we all define for all students, in all schools, in all localities what a student should know. the common core standards adopted by some 45 states is really an important step and i don't think people understand how powerful of an idea this was. first of all it was bipartisan, not from the federal government, it was from states, republican governors, democratic governors, and in the last five years, to do anything bipartisan is amazing. but what they did is they came up with a set of standards that all students should know. we're in the process of developing the second set of assessments, to measure the new standards and now we're absolutely in the middle of good implementation. will districts implement

those standards in a good way. i think it will go a long ways to do what you described, that to clearly define grade by grade what students need to know and be able to do and to be able to measure that effectively in this second generation of assessments. so i think we're going to have to step up. you make a very good point. we're not just competing here in this country. it's a worldwide global society now and we have to compete with all. host: julio on the phone from staten island, new york, good morning with dennis van roekel. caller: steve, i always get you when you're there, this is the third time. thank you very much and you're a good moderator. i want to ask mr. van roekel if you've read the book the dumbing down of america by charlotte iserbyt and i want to know if you recommend it and for parents as well. you said about poverty, debt is tied into poverty and american people may want to consider thaw don't want a

federal reserve bank privately owned to spend money on your behalf, the government taxes you, then they don't want to tell you what they spent it on. if it's not spent on education and for us, why are we paying taxes when they're buying the banks overseas? guest: julio, i have not read that book but i wrote it down. i'm always looking at new things to read, and so dumbing down of america, i will definitely look that up. and i liked your point at the end about we ought to be investing tax dollars in education. one economist explained it to me, i believe, in the simplest, most logical way i've heard anyone say. he said in our state systems in k-12, 1 of the major expenditures of tax dollars is in education, in k-12. he said therefore, if you want economic success, economic growth, and you've already invested in those people, you want to keep them in your state, and the way

you keep them in the state is by creating well paying jobs, which further enhances economic development, because the higher their wages are, the more they pay in taxes. and he said that we're going in the opposite direction. we lose tax revenue by giving tax breaks to corporations who create minimum wage jobs that pay less in taxes. so his road to success was very clear, invest in education, keep those in your state, create as many high paying jobs as you can, and the economic growth will follow, so i hope we in more and more states follow that magic formula. host: let me ask you to react to a story posted friday in the "washington post." i'm not sure if you saw it but it took place in wisconsin, a judge there basically striking down one of the laws put in place that would curb collective bargaining for public workers, sean sullivan writing a wisconsin judge on friday striking down the law signed by governor scott walker, republican from wisconsin, that did curb collective bargaining for most public employees, again, thrusting a contentious issue that spurred the recall

elections in wisconsin back into the spotlight two months before the election, this, of course, also involving teachers. guest: absolutely. it's a very important issue and i think the purpose of collective bargaining, the idea that you have a balance of the voice, that corporations can't go unfettered, that someone else, middle class workers, have a voice is really important, and although in wisconsin, the recall failed with governor walker. if we look at ohio, just next door, they passed a senate bill five which eliminated collective bargaining. that was put on the ballot as a referendum, ballot measure two, and that was turned -- that legislation was overturned by the vote of the people on a 3-1 margin. i think people understand that the middle class has to have a voice. there has to be a balance. and so as we move forward, i think it will continue to be part of not only the national campaign, but in campaigns for governors and state legislatures in this november, as well as in years

ahead. host: before we take a call, i just want to get your reaction, this doesn't involve public education but colleges and this is a story, front page of the washington examiner, parents struggling as college tuitions explode and as you move inside the piece there, is this analysis looking over the last 10-15 years about inflation, for example, in 2009, inflation was essentially nonexistent and yet, four-year private schools went up nearly 4 percent, public education went up 7 percent, and in 2011, when inflation was at 3.2%, tuition in private schools, up 4 1/2%, public schools, up 8.3%. is this sustainable? guest: it is not sustainable and the reason the tuition increases are way out of line is because public support for those universities has gone down. one university i read, they said in 1990, 25 percent of their budget was tuition, 75 percent came in state aid. today, it's absolutely reversed. 75 percent of their revenue, from tuition, only 25 percent

from contributions from the state. that is not sustainable. the cost of college has gone out of sight and it's out of reach for most middle class families. it's good that we have loan programs, but it's also harmful for a young student to graduate from college with debts of anywhere from 20-$60,000. in our student program in the national education association, we have about 70,000 college students who are members of nea who is planning to be teachers and when i talk to them and the levels of their debt when they graduate from college you just wonder how in the world do you go into a teaching job and succeed when you have that kind of debt hanging over your head. college affordability and access is a huge issue in the year ahead. host: one comparison, georgetown university, 12 years ago, just tuition, not room and board, was $25,000. it's now $43,000. and university of maryland, an in-state tuition was about $6300.

it's now nearly $9000. at university of virginia, 12 years ago, it was just under $4500 a year, now it is in excess of $12,000 in state, much more for out of state at these public institutions, private institutions going up more than doubled in the last 10-12 years. so what we've done as a society is taken the responsibility of providing education to our young people and shift thunderstorm to them and said if you want to be educated you need to pay for it. it is a formula for disaster. as we go into the 21st century, we need more people educated better than ever before in our history. this is not the time to be decreasing our investment education. it is a time to increase it. host: taking one more call, john on the phone from mckenicksberg, pennsylvania. on the republican line. caller: thank you for the call. this is interesting information. two real quick questions. number one, i was wondering if, since it's such a large union and it's always involved in politics and

there are two sides to everything, my question number one real quick is when is the last time that huge teachers union worked with businesses, corporations, industries, to look for the kind of jobs of the future and to work with industry, not just the public unions and the taxing entities, the school boards, when they tax to pay for all the school issues. when is the last time they worked with industry and business to find the jobs of the future? and the second question is charter schools. the competition now for public schools. we all know that's going to continue. and i would like to know what your guest thinks. are all the voters just -- all the teachers, are they just democrats or are some independents or republicans? it seems like they're heavily weighed to the democratic party, and do the independents and republicans, do they simply even matter anymore? host: i'll stop you there with about a minute of the left. two issues. we'll give you a minute to respond. guest: the last time i reached out to business was a

month ago. i have a council advisory committee just to talk about those issues. secondly the national education association with over 3 million members, our membership is about one third republican, one third democrat and one third independent, so we reach out to candidates in all parties and what we care most about is what are your positions on education. we support both republicans and democrats. there are more democrats that we are currently supporting, but it is because of their positions on education, not because of their party. host: we thank you very much for being with us, dennis van roekel, president of the national education association. guest: well, it was a great time, thank you very much for having me. >> tomorrow on washington journal, john and alan. -- jonathan allen. bob woodward talks about his book.

in less than three weeks, the first of the presidential debates. watch and the gauge. next, a house hearing on oxygen problems on ba'ath-22 is -- f- 22's. retired general gregory martin says researchers are unable to determine specific cause as to why f-22 pilots were experiencing -- while in flight.

there was a hearing about the fight to jap lost oxygen issues. the report outlines ways to reduce risk. >> the hearing will come to order. f-22 pilot physiological issues. the committee's concerns include the impact of these issues to the pilots. and the operational capability of these valuable aircraft. the committee also remains concerned that after the study of the issue, we need to understand what the level of competency is.

their 06 f-22 and physiological and -- there were six f-22 physiological instances. in may of 2011, the secretary of the airforce directed the scientific advisory board and make recommendations to address concerns. for may-september of last year, there was an upward trend and reports of physiological instances. they did not determine a cause.

however, the board did make findings and recommendations. the concluded that the supply of oxygen was contributing to the symptoms. they established a life support task force. on april 23, 2012, nasa accepted a request from the air combat command to serve an independent investigative -- ongoing cause analysis as regard to potential and abilities to the pilot. the department of defense announced that the root cause of

the issues with the supply of oxygen to the pilot, not the quality of oxygen. to reduce the incidence of events, there were to make two changes to the support system. first, the increased the volume of air to the pilots. it was the results of a private investigation as to whether there any contaminant. -- the air airport's force will replace a valve. it will give counterpressure to assist reading. -- breathing. oxygen contamination --

contamination was ruled out. in the interim, the f-22 is under a temporary altitude limits. there have been 11 incidents that were initially reported as cause on non. the air force cadets can use to investigate these incidents. -- the air force continues to investigate these incidents. from 2002 to may 2011, the air force reported an incident rate -- i know from personal experience,

it was a difficult problem. determining the rich cause -- root cause is difficult indeed. hypoxia will frequently result in hyperventilation. it is a vicious cycle. much more needs to be done. the recommendations of the advisory board need to be implemented. the task force needs to complete the report and provide final recommendations. nasa needs to provide its

wreath -- recommendations. we ask leaders of this project to testify today. chairman of the scientific advisory board, general martin. general lions' leads the task force. he leads nasa lost independent -- we thank you for our service -- your service to this country. >> let me add my welcome to you

this morning. from personal perspective, i want to thank the chairman. as a scientist, he was able to explain some difficult technical issues. we have been wrestling with this problem with the oxygen system of the f-22. thank you for your leadership as well. hearing will cover technical issues. i am pleased with the level of effort the airport -- airports has put into this investigation. -- air force has put into this

and investigation. eventually, we will delay place or will fix this problem. -- gets to a place where we will fix this problem. the air force reached out to other agencies. for additional expertise and advice. based on extensive work, i am cautiously optimistic that the air force has indeed i did apply the primary causes of the problems. they have identified fixes. the next step is to make sure those fixes are funded. the united states needs these

planes to deter enemies. despite congress passing a long- term resolution for defense spending, i personally want to insure that we will fix the f-22 problems and continue at full speed. understanding the problems and how to fix them is one aspect of the hearing. this is an important one. the larger issue is how this situation occurred in the first place. and how we avoid similar mistakes going forward. as far as the cause of the problems, my overall impression and the testimony that we received to our committee is that the main problems with the f-22 were human failures of

judgment and not technical failures. one issue is the basic design of the aircraft lost white support system. -- aircraft's life support s ystem. given these two factors, the cost per plane of more than $140 million, it is surprising that it was designed without a sophisticated backup oxygen system. or even a system to let the pilots know that he was not getting oxygen in time to do something about it. how did that happen? why did the air force design and

build such a sophisticated aircraft such a relatively unsophisticated pilot oxygen support system? why was this issue not to identified during testing? that is when design issues are normally identified. it does not seem to be the case of the f-22. we'll get a lot of the permission today. -- information today. i look forward to see how we can avoid similar problems in the future. >> thank you very much. all statements will be included in the record. thank you.

>> thank you mr chairman. i am honored to be here representing the advisory panel. during my remarks, and my responses to my questions, i will try to answer the questions as i believe the members of the study panel would answer them, as opposed to my own personal views. the on board oxygen generation system, on the f-22 is very similar to other onboard systems on other fighter aircraft. it was -- designed to reduce the logistics support and increased safety considerations. the aircraft is equipped with a

system to provide breathing air to the pilot. the system usually will take care of the engine and concentrate it into a higher level of oxygen. it will then match that amount of oxygen based on the cabin pressure. beginning in 2008, the f-22 began to experience a significant way higher rates of hypoxia incidents with unknown causes. as reported by pilots. at that point, the air force initiated an approach to finding the root cause for these unexplained incidents. the first year was a collaborative effort from the system program office, the prime contractor, and the sub

contractor responsible for it components of the support system. that collaborative effort started a process will come to know at the root cause and corrective action analysis process it has continued for the last four at years. at the preliminary results of a fatal mishap that occurred in november 2010, the air combat command established a class-e safety investigation board. it was chartered to review all incidents. in conjunction with the root

cause analysis team, they developed and implemented a multitude of tests and challenges to each of the life- support system components. at that time, flight operations were limited to 25,000 feet. these directions were provided to minimize the opportunity for any of the truce to be exposed to an environment that could cause symptoms. nonetheless, there is an increase in a number of events. after too troubling incidents, the air force grounded the fleet of at 22 aircraft.

-- f-22 aircraft. it recommended that the air force modified one of the test aircraft with a specialized iran sensors. -- array of sensors. if there were decisions made during the manufacturing phase, it should be reviewed from a broader perspective. in june of 2011, the secretary of the air force and keep a staff of the airports, -- airforce --

first, continuing for views of the life-support equipment. finally, to better understand similarities and differences between the f-22 and other military aircraft. all along with an evaluation of the guy and associated with breathing air standards and the human response to operating extraordinary enveloping last than 90% supplied oxygen. to review the procedural changes that occurred during the development with respect to

design limitations, risk analysis, and the acquisition of work force. the study began in 2000 -- 2011. the final briefing was approved by the board and delivered to the chief in january of 2012. it is important to note the study panel recognized from initial statistical analysis that it was quite likely that in the initial flight test profile conducted in the summer of 2011, that we may not determine the root causes. with that mind, it became clear that it would be to develop where help the air force developed to make a procedure to

allow the f-22 flight to return to flight operations and a safe mode. while at the same time offering a air force is the ability to collect and analyze and amount of data that would be collected during the flight. as a result, the study panel was able to develop procedures along with a specific series of incidents protocols to assist to the airports -- air force to find the root causes. between that time and the out brief, they continued to assess

and evaluate data. as a result of analyzing the data, they made recommendations to the air force leadership in three areas. it will allow the at 22 to return to full operational on below. and develop procedures related to the human systems integration process that the air force uses to further explore the interaction between the human and the f-22 in all of its environment. they also directed that the air

force take the lead in breathing air standards. the key to implementing the recommendations was deterrent to be the establishment of a task force to continue the analysis process initiated by the study panel. standing up this task force represents the fourth tier of the overall effort to find direct causes of the incidents. the study panel did recommend a quarterly follow-up be established to review the process. to date, the task force has

done to quarterly fall. the progress has been impressive. this approach for an independent assessment represents that the air force is dedicated to being thorough in its approach to solving this issue. this completes my statement. >> thank you. >> thank you for the opportunity today. i'd like to thank you for the leadership of this committee.

the f-22 raptor contributes significantly to our nation's white interests. -- vital interests. this presents reassure our allies. and demonstrate our resolve for lasting global relationships. the f-22 is also contributes to homeland defense.

the fleet, combine the capabilities for our joint partners, allows us to kick down the doors now and in the foreseeable future. it allows us to seize the initiative and defeat those who john just on the ground. the f-22 enables us to conduct operations. without contributions

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young people were active in politics. i did not notice a huge groundswell of young people, particularly when we were in charlotte. they canceled the outdoor acceptance speech which is what they did four years ago in denver. they invited people to go to reviewing party at the convention center in charlotte. i saw a mass of lineup of

people. charlotteething's of did not want come out to see barack obama. >> what are some of the things they can do to get the vote out? >> this is a big question, especially for tactician on the left that i write about in my book. the 2008 class, what can you do to mobilize them to vote again? one of the most interesting things are right in my book is the rise of the using drug trials for politics where the voters are guinea pigs and you are able to do whatever you want to the medical subjects. you are able to measure in specific terms like cause and

effect. we often thought about elections being in this contest to change people's opinion. i think we increasingly see it as a game of figuring out who can alter their behavior. a lot of these efforts that mobilization are sort of universal. there are things that arm formed by behavioral psychology, behavioral sciences, the best documented method of getting somebody to vote. they sent people a copy of their voting history. here is how you did in the last six elections. you did not vote in school board, city council, and here