was in all good fun. here is a little bit more about the dinner from "washington journal." >> what is the al smith dinner? >> it is an annual charity at thein manhattan and ac waldorf hotel. >> of the former governor of new york who ran for president in 1928 and so it's a very big event. it's supposed to be the m.c. calls it the most important nonpolitical, political dinner in the country. >> why is that tonight? >> tonight president obama and

mitt romney will be speaking. it's become a must be there event for presidential candidates and it's a chance for them to come together in a nonconfrontational way, they do give humorous speeches and poke fun at each other and themselves and it's supposed to be a break from the campaign trail and bashing each oofment and we're just two days out from one debate and another one in florida and it's supposed to be a chance to show a little bit of a day taunt i guess. host: so each of the men will speak tonight? guest: yes. each of the candidates will give a speech maybe poking some fun at their opponents but also honor the makery of al smith who was a four-term governor of new york but as a candidate for

president who was heavily criticized and attacked basically for his catholic faith. host: and al smith was one of our contenders as part of our series that we did on c-span looking at those who ran for the white house, lost but changed political history. if our viewers are interested in going into the archives to learn more about al smith. but tonight have all presidents and candidates, are they invited every year to this dinner? guest: going back to what you were speaking about earlier like the topic of abortion some candidates were not invited at all because of issues related to abortion. the candidates were not invited

in 1996 because president clinton had vow towed a bill on abortion. and at the john carry was the democratic nominee and he supported abortion rights so that year they didn't exactly put out a statement but that was the circumstance the candidates did not speak that year at the dinner. host: so what about this year? guest: this year, toveble cardinal did decide to invite the candidates and he got a lot of heat for it. they were a lot of people who said it was inappropriate to have a president who has the stance that he has on abortion issues speak at a function that's associated with the church, that is related to

issues of the catholic faith although it is supposed to be nonpolitical and nonpartisan and all of. that some people even complain about mitt romney appearing at the dinner. so there was a pretty lengthy blog item explaining why he decided to invite them. and he said first of all this is about the memory of al smith. and he was somebody who had very strongly personal opinions about what he thought was right and wrong, he didn't demonnies the people who thought differently. and it's better to engage people who have different views than you do rather than shut them out or ignore them or turn your back. so it's sort of a way of fostering communication rather than emphasizing differences. host: how much money are they expected to raise tonight?

guest: $5 million. host: where will that go to? guest: it goes to charities that benefit children. host: thank you for your time this morning. >> mitt romney and president obama speak tonight live on c-span at 12:00 eastern. the hawaii senate race debate. >> here are the rules for tonight's debate, when the panelist is asked a question she will have one minute to answer t. opposed candidate will have 45 seconds for rebuttal. and a little later the candidates will have an opportunity to ask questions of each oofment before we get to

questions each candidate has 90 seconds to answer this question. why are you running for u.s. senate and we begin with representative hirono. >> thank you for hosting this debate tonight. and to those of you who are tuning in thank you. you are asking yourself does this u.s. senate race matter to me and my family. that's an important question and i hope you listen for the differences between us. if you're a middle class person, for example, note that my republican opponent's economic priorities are similar to mitt romney's. that's because they both support rich mill nares get tax breaks while middle class taxes go up. or if you're on medicare note my opponent's plan is exactly the same as mitt romney's

because they will change medicare into a voucher system and that will end up costing our seniors a lot more money. or you may be asking yourself why don't we create jobs and get our economy going? note my republican opponent has joined with the national republican party to oppose president obama's jobs plan to create 2 million jobs. or you may be asking yourself a larger question what is the best senate for highway hawaii? a senate tied to a republican agenda opposing president obama or a senate committed to middle class values and the right priorities. >> governor lingle your turn now. why are you running for the united states senate? >> i'm run ling for the same reason i wanted to represent molakai when i was 27 years

old. on the counsel making life better for seniors meant fix it is drinking fountain and installing ceiling fans. as mayor it meant capping taxes so people could afford to stay in their home even when property value skyrocketed. as governor it meant creating a robotics program so twins at a high school would major in engineering. as senator making life better means protecting social security and medicare for future generations. we have to cannot to invest in healthcare, education, national security and infrastructure while working to regain our financial strength as a nation. two years ago i was invited to be a founding member of a governor's counsel at the bipartisan policy center washington where i worked with former republican and democrat governors on issues important

to the state and nation. unlike my opponent i have a track record of working in a bipartisan fashion to make life better for the people of hawaii. i ask for your vote so i can continue my work as hawaii's next united states senator. >> well, now to our panel and we're going to start with andrew who as a question for representative hirono. >> you've been classified as one of the most liberal members of congress. critics say you're a machine for the democrats or a rubber stamp. can you tell us a specific issue where you broke from you're party? >> it's important we work in a bipartisan way to get things done for hawaii. and i've done that. i'm proud of my work i did with my friend don young from alaska where we saved education grant programs.

that meant about $33 million for those programs for nate tive hawaiiens. i also worked with republican control congress to bring $6 million more to our airport that is dealt with aviation. that's $6 million every year to hawaii. that's jobs, that's infrastructure. i'm also proud of working with a bipartisan way with my visit u.s. bill. that would infuse our economy with about $600 million. so unlike my republican opponent, i don't just talk about being bipartisan, i do it. >> thank you very much fments and governor lingle you have 45 seconds for rebuttal. >> she is been in the republican party so she never had experience at working across party lines.

being a republican meant in order to achieve the initiative we worked on to get the clean energy initiative adopted, i had to work with people of both parties in a respectful manner. my opponent has spent this entire campaign attacking national republicans. these would be the people we would have to work with to get things done for hawaii. she votes with her party 97% of the time. that is not somebody who is bipartisan. she never has been, she never will be. >> governor lingle you're a republican who hawaii people should support. can you name a specific plank with governor mitt romney's campaign you don't agree with. >> we're on different sides of immigration gration. it's because our state is a state of immigrants as is our

nation. unlike most people watching tonight my grandparents weren't born in this country and i feel that immigration is not just important to us as a nation but important to our economy because our birth rate has dropped, we need more people coming into the country. i also support young people who come here to study being able to stay in america. also governor romney and i disagree on how he relates to china. china is a critically important nation to our state. i've spent a lot of time there and i think attacking them is not the right thing to do for america or the state of hawaii. >> representative hirono. >> the people of hawaii should be very clear that my republican opponent is completely on the same page with mitt romney with regard to opposing president obama's jobs bill which would create 2

million jobs necessary in this economic crisis. and she is totally on the same page with mitt romney on the issue of changing medicare into a voucher system that would end up costing our seniors more money which and she is also totally on the same page with mitt romney on the question of more tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires. so that is not somebody who is bipartisan. she will be one of four votes that the republicans nationally need to control the u.s. senate. >> thank you very much. and now to chad blair who has a question for representative hirono. >> you say you would fight and you will fight to keep social security and medicare in tact for future generations and you've suggested fixes like ending the payroll cap. negotiate of these will sufficiently fund these programs long into the future. are you avoiding making tough

decisions such as raising the eligibility age for social security? >> here's what i will do to keep social security strong because both social security and medicare are not just programs to support, but you commiments. social security can be kept strong for 75 years so i disagree with the premise of your question. because by lifting the cap on payments to the social security trust fund, we can keep that fund going inner 75 years and i do not agree on raising the retirement age for social security as my republican opponent supports because that would end up with our recipients getting less in social security. for medicare obama care extends the life of medicare for eight years. i have three proposals, we need to get after fraud and waste. we need to allow for purchasing of drugs and focus on

prevention. and my opponent would just totally get rid of obama care. >> governor lingle. >> congresswoman hirono continues to say my plan for medicare choice is the voucher program even though she knows that's not true. a voacher is something you get in the mail and take it in and redeem it. that's not my idea at all. in fact the plan i proposed was first recommended by president clinton and most recently the bipartisan center also supported choice in medicare. it's one of the bipartisan ideas which will help create competition and help keep cost under control for medicare. we also need medical malpractice reform to bring down cost of insurance for physicians and stop defensive

medicine that's driving up the cost of healthcare. >> governor lingle, senator dan has criticized your statements you can work effectively with him if elected to the senate. are you exaggerating your relationship and how can hawaii residents have confidence in their senate team? >> i've had a good relationship with him as my eight years as governor. i think the best informs 2005 we saved jobs at the pearl harbor shipyard. he was not allowed to lobby to get pearl harbor taken off the list but he did introduce me at the brack hearing. i represented the state of hawaii. people forget we won that vote on a four to five vote.

that meant had one vote go the other way we would have lost those jobs. we worked closely on that. we also worked on a bill to get republican senators as co-spon source that he was not able to get previously. i know heel all the do what's right for hawaii. i look forward to working with him if i win this united states senate race. >> the people of hawaii should be very clear that should linda lingle be elected to the united states senator she will be one vote closer for the republicans to take control of the senate. and that would be the loss of the chairmanship of the appropriate committee. make no mistake about it that is the republicans plan in supporting her. i have a long-standing relationship with the senator. and while my republican keeps talking about a foot in both

camps it makes no sense to send two people to the united states senate who will cans each other's vote. and as for barack i think he has a very different version of what happened there to save those jobs. >> we're going to go back to our panel catherine cruz for a question. >> spending in hawaii is probably going to be reduced next year whether it's to the budget cuts or different approach congress may choose. assuming no deal is struck during the lame duck session and you are elected what areas would you cut? please be specific. >> the budget control act which brought us sequestration was a bipartisan compromise that was supported by senator mccain, by paul ryan and others. and it was a very tough compromise but we did it because otherwise the economy

would have gone over the cliff t. loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs. so yes we're going to need to address southeast combesttration. we're going to have to do it in a balingsed way. we're not going to balance our budget by cutting cutting cutting which is what the republicans want to do. and i'm shocked to learn my republican opponent said she would not have voted for that act. she would have joined extremists in the house to send the country over the economic cliff. i think that's one of the most irresponsible things i have ever heard from linda lingle. so rather than going in that direction i voted for that bill to save our country literally. >> congresswoman hirono made a mistake when she voted to go along with a massive cut to

military spending that was required under sequestration. she should have realized that a cut in our state was so much more devastating in our state because of the percentage of the economy reliant on the military. this $50 billion cut is going to hit hawaii harder than anywhere else in america which and there are times when you shouldn't compromise bipartisan or not. this was the wrong decision to make. she should have stood up for the people of hawaii. >> thank you. we're going to chad blair. >> it seems clear that the september 11 attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi libya was a planned terrorist attack. how should the u.s. respond to this latest provocation?

>> i think it's important in the area of national security to make certain that the country comes together in these kinds of times. this was a presentable situation likely because there was a request made for additional security there in benghazi. i feel sad for our ambassador and for his family. but america should have recognized and the state department should have recognized this was a very volatile area. national security is an area that hawaii has to be extremely concerned about as well because we are in one of the most volatile parts of the world. i know a lot of attention is focused on the middle east but in fact this is the site of the largest military build upton planet. >> what's happening now with regard to the investigation of what happened in libya is a commitment to make sure that we

find out exactly what happened so that this kind of tragedy doesn't happen again. this is an area of the world, the middle east, where we can't afford to shoot first and ask questions later which is what happened with governor romney. so this is not an issue that should be politic sized. it is being investigated. we are going to get to the bottom of it and we need to make sure it doesn't happen again. but this is an area of the world where intelligence, facts before we speak are important. >> now it's time for the candidates to ask each other a question. each candidate has no more than 30 seconds to ask the question. the candidates will have one minute to answer the question and 45 seconds for the rebuttal. >> governor lingle you get to ask the first question. >> congresswoman hirono you were an advocate for the law

that harmed hawaii people. you led the conversion of a leading trust lands and you stood by when the administration you were a part of stopped payments to hoe. as my first month as governor i restored those payments. how can the hawaii people trust you to represent them when your record shows you have continually abandonned their interest? >> my record is long and strong and the nattive hawaii community recognizes that. that was passed long before i got to the legislature and that was an important piece of legislation that promoted fairness. having said that i know that governor lingle went to the u.s. supreme court to push the proposition that the state of hawaii should be able to sell seated lands and this is in spite of the fact that the people opposed it.

and as for the support for the bill, she knows that she supported it but at a critical time in 2010 when the bill was going to come to the floor for a vote, she sent a letter to every single u.s. senator urging them not to support it so that never came to a vote, if it had, it would have been passed. president obama would have signed it into law and one of the most critical issues for hawaii people would be law. she didn't help. >> congresswoman hirono mentioned a land reform act but that has nothing to do with the legislature to force the trust to sell their land. also she mentioned seated lands in the case. it was the same position that the governors took because i was representing all the people of hawaii. i never sold an ackker of seated land during my time in

office. in fact, we transferred state lands to the department of homelands that has allowed all of the homes to be built. the reason the bill hasn't passed until now because there is been no republican in the snofment they had a democrat and they still couldn't get it passed. they need a republican member of the senate to yins force to support this bill. >> my first question to you linda is this, apart from the fact that both you and mitt romney are republicans and therefore are on the same team, i am very interested in knowing why specifically you believe mitt romney would be a better president for hawaii than president obama? >> i'm like most people in hawaii that we're very proud when a person who is born and

raised here at home became president of the united states. it's true that president obama inherited a very difficult economy and a very difficult situation. and he's tried and i'm sure he's done his best to make things better but it just hasn't worked. we have more people unemployed, more women living in poverty today. we have more people on food stamps. governor romney is a person who has the proper experience at this time to get our economy back on track and i think that's the number one issue facing the country. >> representative, your rebuttal. >> i know that my republican opponent continues to shout that she is bipartisan but how bipartisan was it for her to go out on the campaign trail to support the mccain ticket and she is currently a co-chair in the romney campaign.

and like him, she supports eliminating obama care, -- i have a bit of a cold, i do apologize to the viewers. raising the age for social security, making sure the richest people in our country get their tax breaks. these are issues that are important to the people of hawaii. so she doesn't talk about why she is on the same page with mitt romney on these issues that are of critical importance to the people of the state of hawaii. >> it's time for a short break and when we come back we'll have questions from our viewers. stay tuned and we'll be right back. >> welcome back to the debate. time now for those watching at home online t and their

smartphones. >> this has been a very lively discussion and we're having a hard time picking questions. we're going to start with a question for governor lingle. what is the most dishonest remark that has been said about you by your opponent. >> well, there's so many to choose from. if i just look at tonight it would be her continuing to talk about my idea of medicare being a voucher program. she does that to try to put fear into our senior citizens. she also put a tv ad up that said my plan for medicare would add a huge amount of money to out of pocket expenses for seniors. so she's trading on fear to try to get the people scared. and i think it's not only mean

to me, i think it's cynical and disrespectful when i keep repeating it's not a voucher program. she also makes mention from time to time that i'm a co-chair of governor romney's campaign when she knows that's not true either. >> my republican opponent has been on the attack since day one of the general election. there has been one after another attack regarding my record, my acheevements, you name it. so i really take -- there is such a difference in my aproach in this campaign because my ads are comparison ads. and when governor lingle keeps talking about her premyime support plan not being a voucher plan, i think that's

being dishonest. so she has spent over a million dollars attacking me every single day and these attacks are not true and they are very misleading. >> this next question is for representative hirono. i i feel it's important to be independent. name one issue you disagree with senator daniel annoy. >> our state is the most oil dependent state in the country. and we theed to wean ourself from support only who supports the republican agenda of drill baby drill and continued reliance on fossil fuels. i do not. the senator supports drilling

in some of the most pristine areas of alaska and i do not support . that in fact what our state needs to do is move towards energy insufficiency and reliance on fossil fuels and i have a sustainability plan that would do just that. >> thank you very much. >> over the two years that the community and my administration spent creating the clean energy initiative. congresswoman hirono and her staff were the only ones in the delegation who didn't participate in that process at all. she says she's against fossil fuel but for our nation to expand our economy and gain energy independence from foreign nations and to keep our military safer, it makes a lot of sense to develop our own energy sources. all of the elected if i recollects in alaska support the drilling of on war. we should respect their wishes.

and their gas find would benefit hawaii directly and it would come from a sister state and not from a foreign nation. >> this next question is for representative hirono. if you have so much confidence in social security solvency would but willing to forego your pension in congress and join social security like the rest of us? >> this is yet another eroneyouse piece of information that keeps circulating because members of congress pay into social security just like everybody else and our retirement is just like every other federal employee. so these pieces of information keep getting circulated. what i would like to do with social security is a very important safety net for our people is make sure it remains strong by lifting the cap so

people who are making $1 $10,000 continue to pay into the trust fund there by keeping that trust fund strong for 75 years. and unlike my opponent i do not support lifting the retirement age for social security because experts have said that doing that will flult lower social security paymentes to our retirees. that is not the way to go. those are not our prirets. >> she knows that i don't support raising the age of social security. i said at our last debate that while people are living longerer, those poorest in our nation are not living longer so by raising the age we would be penlliesing them in particular. i did say we might want to find a split system for those who work in physical labor their whole lives, perhaps they

shouldn't work as long as somebody who works in an office. i proposed a great new creative bipartisan idea called an automatic i.r.a. and i hope i can talk about it tonight. >> we have one more question asking if you are elected governor lingle would you take action to repeal obama care in its entirety or any part there of? >> certainly there are parts of obama care that i think should be repealed. but i'd like to commend for raising one critical issue and that was the issue of preexisting conditions. it's not right in america that a person who has an illness already continue obtain health insurance. but the biggest problem i have with obama care is it takes $716 billion away from medicare.

this is money that would have gone to pay providers skilled nursing facilities, hospitals and it would have taken $300 from medicare advantage. medicare advantage is used by 42% of medicare beneficiaries in our state much less than the 25% who use it nationally. so for that reason alone i think at a minimum obama care has to be amend. we can't shortchange our people from taking so much money away from medicare. >> should the republicans take control of the united states senate one of the first things they would do is repeal obama care. so all of these things about obama care that my republican opponent likes will be gone. not only that if she had been a united states senator when the vote on obama care in the nites

senate it would have never passed because it was that close. so millions of seniors are being helped by obama care, hundreds of thousands of young people being helped by obama care would all be gone. there is no sugar coating this. if she gets elected to the senate and republicans gain control they will repeal obama care with nothing much to replace it. >> thank you to our viewers who are watching. we're going to go back to our candidates who have a couple of questions to ask of each other. 30 seconds to ask the question, one minute to answer and 45 seconds for rebuttal. >> congresswoman hirono you talk about local values. i believe an honest days work for an honest days wages. you've elected more than a

million dollars but haven't passed one bill to help local families or businesses. you missed 144 votes this year alone. that is twice that of your typical congressional colleague. how can you look our citizens in the eye and claim your poor attendance reflect the hard work? >> this is another misleading attack. she knows very well that my voting record in the united states house is 95% and i have voted almost 5,000 times. when we talk about not being around. why don't we focus on the fact when my opponent was very busy campaigning for the mccain ticket in 2008 she was gone for almost a month. and there was one two-week period -- this was at a time when our state was facing a

huge economic crisis in 2008. there was a two-week period when she was gone taking pot shots at obama to the point where an ed toirl said governor you should come home and do your job and she ignored it. i'm proud of my accomplishments in congress and i'll go into those later in this debate. >> congresswoman hirono e try to dismiss your terrible record how many times you did show up. but if an average worker tried to do that they'd get put on probation and if a student mised that many days they'd be held back for missing the material and not turning in their work. >> you've been quoted as

refering to george w. bush as our greatest president and you defended the bush administration decision to go to war in iraq as well as his handling of hurkhurk dow still support that? >> it's not a statement i ever made certainly after 9/11 when president bush faced anta tack on our nation, i thought he did a great job of uniting the nation and developing a plan. he believed that iraq had weapons of mass destruction and so did our allies in europe. it was than basis that the united states congress voted for our country to go to your. this is not something a president can do on their own. there were also 30 other

nations who were involved in that effort. i think at the time based on the information that we knew, the president did a good job for the nation. but the quote she mentioned never happened. >> your rebuttal. >> i'm astounded because she admitted it and i see chad blair here. you should fact check this. she continues to be a partisan supporter and a cheerleader for george w. bush, his decision to go to iraq which and i'm proud of the fact that our delegation, two senators all voted against going to war in iraq. they had the same information but they had the foresight and the vision not to send us to war in that very tragic mistake. so when she talks about being bipartisan she has been a

cheerleader for bush and for the mccain abdomen now she is a cheerleader for governor romney. >> we are going back to our questions. >> governor lingle let's touch on something that made big news. for many years republicans have tried to cut funding for p.b.s. in this years presidential debate he suggested cuts to sesame street and big bird. do you support the move and why or why not? >> i think it's important to look at all expenditures of the nation. but it's clear all of our budget is made up of medicare, social security, medicaid and military spending. we also have to service the debt for the country. we also have a variety of programs such as food stamps,

supportive ago gri culture and homeland security. i guess when you're looking for wayes to cut, you're looking for things that are not essential to the economic well being of the nation. and i doubt there are many listeners out there tonight who think sesame street is essential to the economic health of america or to the country's national security. so i think it's a reasonable thing for someone to point to but not going to make much of a dent in our debt or annual deficit. >> the two things that really added to our debt and deficit was two unfunded wars iraq and afghanistan. and as you saw governor lingle is a cheerleader for the iraq war. the second thing was the bush tax cuts for the richest people in our country. these two areas added over $2

trillion to our deficit. so i would be interested to know where the governor stands on funding for planned parenthood because that is oot program on the hit list for the republicans nationally. i support planned parenthood because they provide healthcare services to millions of women who otherwise would not have that access. >> catherine cruz has a question for representative hirono. >> more and more we are seeing hawaii shouldering the influx of guam because of the influct of free association. what is your plan to offset the strain on public services? >> i think it is incumbent upon our federal government because we are seeing an influx of these compact my grants and i have talked with the president. we have put in bills that would

provide additional revenues for us. and this leads me to talk about immigration reform. we need to have comprehensive immigration reform and i would look at the compact as part of that whole discussion. we need immigration reform. i support the greem act that would enable young people who came here undocumented who face the prospect of being shipped back to countries they don't even know. this is why i support what the president did with his executive decision to not deport these young people. and this is something that i know mitt romney does not support. >> congresswoman hirono is confused about immigration. the compact free association is an agreement the american government made because of

atomic testing we've done there and denuted their land so they're able to travel visa free anywhere in america nit. they come disproportionately to our state. it cost our state $110 million and the federal government only reimbursed us $11 million for the services we provide. i asked for additional help. where congressman hum did respond to me to deal with a large number of people coming from the compact countries. >> governor, what role should the federal government play in education. are programs like no child left behind and race to the top working? why or why not? >> i think the federal government does have a role to play in a very specific way.

i think that the federal government should set a standard for america as to what each child should know when they graduate from high school, what they should know about american history, their math skills. i can see a national standard as other nations set a national standard. but remember no one in the department of education teaches one child from washington d.c. that is done on a local level. i'd like local control. i think there are some programs that do work. i was a volunteer reading tutor for ten years in the chapter one reading program. this title one reading was for students who came from low income families who needed extra help. so i would tuesday dor them one on one and that money came from the federal government. so some of the programs work well but i would like control to be on the local level. >> do you think those programs

are working, why or why not? >> i think it remains to be seen if race to the top works here in highway highway. it was my office that secured the $75 million we got. mark from my office it was lie son with the department of education and it was the stem, the robotics program that is the feds liked a lot. it does have the potential to work but it remains to be seen. >> as an immigrant to this country, i certainly understand the importance of education as a great equal lieser because otherwise i wouldn't be standing here today. so i have a commiment to make our public schools as good as they can be to enable our kids to succeed in school and life. i have this commiment to our public schools and i know my

opponent has said so but who can forget during her watch he had furlough fridays. furlough fridays our kids are shortchanged 17 instructional days. that is not what a person who supports education would dofment and who can forget all these parents who were concerned about furlough fridses wanting to meet with her being escorted out of her office. >> your support or problems with no child left behind and race to the top? >> there certainly is a federal role inner education. the republican ryan budget cuts education support by some 30%. that would leave even more of a burden on the states to close the achievement gap which is what the race to the top was all about. so there is a federal collaborative role with education.

this is not about the government top down telling the states what to do. >> we're going to go to andrew with a question. >> let's go back about a decade. in the 2002 election you were running for governor but you lost to linda lingle and she became the first republican governor in 25 years. why do you think you can defeat her in this race? >> times have changed in ten years. and we now have my republican opponent with a record and she has a mixed record. who can forget furlough fridays on her watch or the super fairy fy as co-or the fact that 2,000 jobs were lost while she sat on her hands and by the time she left office hawaii was 48th in the nation in terms of welcoming businesses. this was after she first ran she said hawaii is open for business.

this is a mixed record. now i am very proud of the fact that i supported obama care that is helping millions of people all across our country, seniors and young people. and i also fought to make sure hawaii's prepaid healthcare law, my amendment was included in obama care in the house. i'm also proud of the fact that i brought in $6 million for our armentes working with a republican controlled house to do that. >> thank you. >> congresswoman hirono mentioned furlough fridays a couple of times and as she knows no governor can furlough an plofmente hirono's campaign leaves this fact out and it debunks everything she just said about frids. it's simply not true. however when he was governor she walked the picket line encouraging teachers when there

was a 14 day strike ond our students lost those 14 days. governor kit no said it was as appropriate as a quarterback cheering for the opposing team. that was her input into education in our state. the airlines at the time it was struggling wrote me a letter to thank me in getting the government to take over the pension system and to save the pensions of the 3,000 employees. >> we have catherine cruz who has a question for governor lingle. >> u.s. army recently studied the possibility of cleaning up ordnance dumped in hawaii waters. do you support a large scale clean up and if so, at what cost? >> i do support a large scale clean up and through the use of ro botics i think it's less expensive to locate the ordnance and pull it to the

surface and destroy it. our oceans are critically important to our fisherman and life style and visitor industry. so while it may seem like a large expense, it's something worth it to us over the long term. it affects our way of life and our economy. so i think that technology can go a long way today and make this something that is doable soiled support an island wide clean up. >> we should make sure that when we clean up that by doing that we're not going to release harmful particles into our waters. so this is a very important kind of endeavor and i would look for federal funds to help the state do that as appropriate. and in fact kneel and i sought funds for ordnance clean up and

we got those funds when we were in the house of representatives. at the same time making sure that our waters are safe is noah and i must say that republicans in the house would cut noah funding tremendously and these are the people who worn us when there is a hurricane or some other weather condition that's coming our way. >> we're going to chad blair. >> repetitive wise delegation is long pushed for fulfilling the u.s. government's promise for benefits for veterans who fought during world war ii. how would you help in washington these aging sowled yes, sir and their families who deserve compensation? >> we actually passed a bill that did provide some compensation finally long overdue for the veterans and i was a co-response sor of that

kind of legislation. i am the sponsor of a bill that would reunite world war ii veterans with their children. this is part of a comprehensive immigration reform that i talked about. i talk with veterans often and they know the work that i am doing in support of benefits for them. in addition, we talk about -- they also care about things like the dream act which the republicans do not support. and veterans who are immigrants, they are reaching out to fellow immigrants and saying we need to hold hands and work very hard to do comprehensive immigration reform and pass the dream act. >> thank you. governor lingle. >> the issue of promises that were made to the philippine

know veterans aafter the war is not just a issue this is a moral issue for our nation. when we make a promise to somebody and say if you stand by us and are willing to die for us this is what you'll receive after the war. and we haven't kept that promise. this has gone on much too long. if i get to washington d.c. i want to be known on this issue. i want my fellow senators to know what i'm coming to talk about. it's going to be this very important issue for our veteran. it's gone on too long. i think i could bring a renewed energy to this issue if i can get re-elected. >> andrew has a question for governor lingle. >> there has been a lot of talk in the president campaign about whether it's appropriate to tax the rich. taxing the rich at a higher

rate fments what level dow consider a person to be rich and what percentage should go to the government? >> this is a terrific question. they currently pay 60% of all income taxes in the country from the top 2%. i think they should continue to pay at that level. but i do think it's important to also point out that our tax code is extremely unfair. it's just riddled with loopholes and special deals. and the position i'm taking on taxes is the one that was put forward by the president's bipartisan commission known as simpson boles and what they recommend is to take out every special deal under the tax code and then force the united states congress one by one to vote on those they want to put back so the public can see who is getting the tax break and in what amount. it also reduces the number of tax bracts and i think that's a

good idea as well. >> what do you consider rich and what percentage should go to the government? >> for our state it's difficult because we're a state of small businesses because if you pick a number, and everybody would pick a different number to classify the rich. but in our state that will mean it's a small business because they report that income as personal income. so we need to find a way if we want to increase taxes on those who have personal income and those running a business. otherwise the businesses in our state get hurt under congresswoman hirono's plan. >> i believe in tax fairness. and sit fair that the richest people in our country pay at a lower tax rate than secretaries as was pointed out we warren

buffet. the majority of people in our country make under $250 nourks dollar. this 2% got the benefits of the bush tax cuts. that is not fair. this is why i'm a strong spore supporter of the allowing those tax cuts for the 2% to go away. very different position than my opponent. in fact, i supported the president's bill that would ensure that 97% of small businesses would not see their taxes increase. the republicans in the house voted that down. >> this concludes our questions for this evening. now each candidate will have one minute 30 seconds for closing statements. >> i want to thank you for tonight and for all of you

watching. thank you very much. i started this evening by saying does this senate race matter to you and your families? that's an important question. because when you sit everything else aside, that is the most important question. so in the last hour i hope that you've heard enough to make up your minds about who you would support. at home in your own private lives you set priorities. budget for dwrour family, college for your kids, retirement for yourself, maybe a better job tomorrow. but when you think about your priorities and your dreams, your vote matters. are you going to vote for a senator that is tied to the republicans' agenda or a senator who shares your priorities right here at home? someone who will work closely

with president obama and senator oh to get things done for hawaii. i will be that kind of senator. i will lead with my head and my heart because my heart, my proirpts -- priorities. i ask for your vote. >> thank you for watching. the person we sent to washington should be a leader, not a follower. my opponent has no history of standing on her own. however next senator should be someone with a record of getting big things done. i established the hawaii clean energy initiative. my opponent cannot point to one thing she has done and has had a

lasting impact on hawaii. the next person we send to washington will have to get along with everyone. my opponent has said she attacked national of publicans to republicans. it is too risky to send my opponent to the senate. she is not a strong leader. she has no history of getting things done. she does not work well with others. you have not agreed with me on everything, but you know me and five record. i ask for your continued trust so i can get things done in washington for the people of hawaii. thank you for participating in tonight's debate. we like to paint our panelists -- we would like to thank our panelists. we want to thank our viewers for

tuning in and logging on. the general election is three weeks from tonight. stay with us for complete coverage of commencement 2012. our coverage on election day begins at to a clock with diane sawyer following the presidential race and other election news. lee will begin coverage of our local races as 6:00. on behalf of our news organizations. the night. >> i have made mistakes and my personal finances. i made my mistakes and fixed them. everyone that has looked into these allegations have said they are false. from the hartford current to the connecticut post. every independent financial expert. what makes these attack ads from linda mcmahon troubling is

during the exact same time, linda mcmahon had not paid back the $1 million she owed her creditors from a bankruptcy 36 years ago. >> i agree. we need to talk about the issues in the state. an occasional financial slip is not what we are talking about. you need to be honest with the people of connecticut. be honest about discretional interest loans, your attendance and washington. those issues are important to the folks of connecticut. they want to know can they trust the congressman or senator they are sending to washington to represent them and work and fight for them. i have had a career of crating jobs -- creating jobs in creating -- and to bring to the connecticut economy. >> follow key house and senate the other races.

>> a couple of live senate debates coming up. as 7:00 eastern, republican george allen and democrat tim kaine running in virginia. they are both former virginia governor says. at 8:00, live from wisconsin, connie thompson debates tommy -- tammy baldwin. mitt romney and president obama will speak at the al smith center live tonight. it is hosted by the catholic archdiocese of new york. it has provided comic relief near the end of the political cocaine. -- campaign. we spoke with a yale university

professor of the origins of the dinner. >> what is the announcement dinner? how did it come about? >> the house met dinner is most famous as a place that presidential candidates showed up every four years. they show up -- democrats and republicans. it is a memorial to enforcement. if anyone has heard out smith, that is where you have heard of al smith. it is his most lasting public legacy where his name get out. it is held every year. it is not as every four years. it is a memorial dinner. it is a catholic charity dinner. it is a place where people to assess the legacy of al smith and presidential candidates try to crack jokes at each other. >> they show up to gather most

times, both democrats and republican. want to show you some of the past out smith dennis. >> may i ask if mr. clarke would come up here? the president or i are without a seat. i have no intention of standing. >> i have traveled the banquet circuit for many years. i never understood the logistics of dinners like this and how the absence of one individual could cost three of us to not have seat. >> mr. vice president, i am glad to see you. you have said that you want to give america back to the little guys. mr. vice president, i am that man. >> as i looked out at all of the white ties and pale, i realize i have not seen so many

people so well-dressed since i went to the come as to our party. >> we had some good news out of yugoslavia. mr. milosevic has stepped down. one less polysyllabic names to remember. [applause] >> do you know what the world needs? it needs more world leaders named house smith. >> it is in honor to share this with the descendant of the great al smith. your great grandfather was mine favorite kind of governor. the kind who ran for president and lost. [applause] >> the 2012 presidential candidates speak at tonight's al

smith center -- dinner. will have live at 9:00 eastern. democrat bill nelson is running for a third time. republican connie mack is challenging senator nelson. last night was their only debate. it comes to c-span courtesy wptv in west palm beach, florida. >> good evening and welcome to the campus of a south east university.

i am question. seconds of rebuttal. >> honored to have you joining us from across the state of florida and our live audience in attendance. the format is simple. each candidate will be asked a question. each will have one minute 15 seconds to respond. there will be allowed up to 30 seconds of rebuttal. we'll break it into economic and domestic policy, then questions fashion to a patient man's record. finally, foreign policy and national security. i like to introduce our panelists. reporters from south florida and a round the sunshine state. they are anthony man, a longtime political reporter for "south florida sun-sentinel." lisette campos, journalists from wfts-tv in tampa and toluse olorunnipa, tallahassee-based political reporter for the "miami herald." we thank all of you for being with us. we will begin with one minute opening statements by the drawing of straws. congressman bacchus first for one minute. >> thank you.

i am a proud mainstream conservative. i grew up and was born in florida. with florida values. there is a clear choice between senator nelson and me. bill nelson cast a deciding vote to cut $700 billion out of your medicare to pay for obamacare. i voted against obamacare. bill nelson voted to gut our military. i voted to strengthen our military. bill nelson voted for higher taxes, when hundreds of these times -- 150 times. i've voted to cut taxes. i have a simple with this test. if you voted for higher taxes, to see time for you to go. the liberals in washington turn to government to solve the problems they created. what made our nation great is not our government but you, the american people. i look forward to tonight's debate. >> senator bill nelson. >> thank you for this debate. i am looking forward to pointing out with the truth is because everything that congressman has said is not true.

that is part of the problem in our politics today. it is so polarized. it is so partisan. it is so it's ideologically -- with this idea it is my way or the highway. the way you run is respect the other fellow's point of view. reach across the partisan divide and bring people together and build bipartisan consensus. i will show you in the course of this debate how i have been able to do that. i will show you that what the congressman said is not true. let the debate began. >> thank you to both of the candidates. you will hear a reference to a statewide poll, the leadership florida nielson sunshine state survey. it came up with interesting results as we told you across florida.

when asked what is the most important issue facing florida today, the top three answers -- the economy, 44%, education, 6%, crime and drugs, 5%. let us have the questioning began. the first question goes to congressman mack. it will come from anthony mack. >> politicians love to talk tough on spending. can you name a spending in that benefits the residents of florida that needs to be cut to help balance the budget? >> this goes to the heart of what this debate should be about. it is about spending. in washington d.c., we have been on a spending spree. we have seen year after year -- in the last four years, we have added a trillion dollars to new debt every year. some of us believe we need to cut spending. we need to rein in our debt and

deficits. senator nelson serves on the budget committee. for almost four years, he has failed to pass a budget. why is that significant? if you want to control spending, you have to have a budget. the reason you have a budget at home or in your business is so you can control spending. the senator sits on the budget committee and has failed to pass a budget in almost four years. what would i cut? there are a lot of things. go to my website conniemack.com. we have a list. we do not need to continue to fund amtrak. pbs is something else we can cut. when you continue to borrow 40 cents on every dollar -- >> stick to the minute 15 role. senator nelson.

>> right off the bat, i have to explain that what he said about the budget is not true. not only did we pass a budget, we passed it in law last year. this was not a budget resolution that does not have the force of law. this was in fact signed into law by the president. it set the course of categories of spending for two years, not for one year. when you look at spending cuts, there is something known as tax expenditures. it is called tax loopholes. that is basically loopholes that go out to special interests. if we will reform the tax code,

we can go in and start taking out a lot of them. for example, how about $40 billion to come out of the oil industry? how about another $11.5 billion to come from not letting bp to tuck their cleanup expenses. >> senator nelson, what you said is not true. the people of the state of florida deserve the truth. you serve on the budget committee. you do not understand that we have failed to pass a budget. talk about loopholes. you put some cows on their farm to avoid paying taxes. what problems me about that is you tell everyone else not to do it, but it is ok for you. $43,000 could have gone to teachers --

>> check the record. it is the budget control act. i would like to have an opportunity -- there have been cows on the property for 60 years. since 1952, when i was a little boy raising my 48 project. they still are. >> will take our next question from lissette campos. that first question will be directed first to senator nelson. >> good evening. my question is about job creation. in the statewide survey, the statewide poll, participants gave the lowest marks to our state when it came to job creation. within 51% of the people say that florida is doing "a poor job."

why do you feel that you are more equal to or better suited than your opponent to tackle this issue and create more jobs in florida? >> one minute 15. >> we have a long way to go. think where we came from. this time in 2008, we were going into a financial death spiral. the stock market collapse. massive job layoffs. that occurred for 1.5 years. for the last 31 straight months, we have had private-sector job growth. what we are seeing today is an increase of the housing market. we are seeing housing new starts. they are up some 33 per cent in florida. it is slow. it is not fast enough. it is happening.

the economy is going to be reflective of a good shot in the arm of confidence if the congress can come together and pass a budget plan, which i want to lay out for you in large part with income tax code reform. i started part of it in my answer. >> one minute 15. >> we are waiting for you to pass a budget in the united states ended. it has been almost four years. there are a lot of floridians who are suffering, who are hurting. they are looking for work. almost 830,000 people out of work.

many have quit looking for work. you have painted this picture that does not exist. i am not sure which florida you are talking about. people are losing their homes. this economy is not one that is working. here is a small business in my district. it wanted to expand. it is a vote-building business. it took 31 permits in fees for them to expand before they could hire the first full-time employee. this is a government that is out of control. if you want to get entrepreneurs and risk pairs out -- back in the game, you have to lower taxes, not raise taxes. you need to reduce regulation. you need to be upfront with people. tell them that these are difficult times, but we will put our faith and trust in you, the american people, not more government.

>> the smoke to the next question. 30 seconds for each. a strict 30. >> it is not true. here is the 150 tax votes he is talking about. that is not true. outside a bad check organizations have said it is not true. you have not talked about the tax cuts i voted for, but when we start talking about this, let us talk about all of your missed votes this year and when you show up, it is even worse because you have tried to take out medicare and social security. >> congressman mack, 30 seconds. >> senator, your propensity to vote for higher taxes 150 times is shocking. if you voted for higher taxes 150 times, it is time for you to go. the question was about job creation. if you will raise taxes on the people we are relying too -- relying on to create jobs, they do not have the money to invest

if you take it into washington. if you continue with regulations, they cannot grow. let us put our faith and trust back into the people of the state and country. >> next country but next question to congressman mack. >> let us talk about medicare. there is a new study out from the kaiser foundation that says the romney-ryan premium support care would raise the cost of health care for seniors by about $200 per month. under obamacare, medicare is scheduled to go insolvent within 12 years. to how do we protect medicare for florida's 3 million seniors and save it for the next generation without massive slashes and cuts in benefits? >> congressman. >> this question is one that a lot of people have. they are wondering what is happening to medicare. this is not an entitlement. this is something that people have paid into.

this is something that they have earned. it is fares. it is what they have been saving for and working for for a long time. senator nelson cast a deciding vote to cut $700 billion out of medicare. what did senator nelson's day before the vote? he said it is unconscionable to walk away medicare and vantage from our seniors. that is what he did. i agree with you. that was unconscionable. there are over a million seniors in florida on medicare advantage because of your vote. they will lose their medicare a bandage. you talk a good game. you say things like -- i offered an amendment. you can and offer all the amendments to one. it did not pass. you still voted for it. the president called you up and said in your vote. you chose the president of the

people in the state of florida. >> i am not one to let you get away with this. 716 billion was savings that extended the life of medicare for eight years. medicare was going to run out in three years. let us talk about some of his medicare votes. he voted to cut medicare by taking away the guaranteed benefits and replacing it with a voucher that a senior citizen would have to negotiate with an insurance company. the light is on. >> we will recycle the lights. to have about 45 seconds to a minute. a technical problem. >> how much time do i have? >> about a minute. 45 seconds to a minute. >> social security. he voted to partially privatize

social security by putting in the vagaries of the stock market. he has a plan that would at this rate medicare. over $1 trillion out of social security. we are going to release tonight the impartial, nonpartisan congressional research service study that shows how we absolutely savages medicare, social security and $3 trillion out of defense. that is what his penney plan is. >> congressman? 30 seconds. >> senator nelson, you know better than that. you can call that savings, you can call it taking the money or anything you want.

you cut $700 billion which he said would be unconscionable and i agree with you. the problem is when the president said to you i need your vote, you chose to stand with the president like you do 98% of the time instead of standing with the people of the state of florida. you whacked away at the medicare advantage and you should explain that to them. >> 30 seconds. >> that is just it. it is not a cut. as a matter of fact, all of the fact checkers say it is not a cut. it is savings. it did not come from the medicare beneficiaries. if king and the providers, in some cases -- it came from the providers. my state with about unconscionable but not protected florida by exempting out medicare advantage for florida until we got the correct formula that would reward our seniors.

it is one of the most wildly successful programs right now. within moments of and premiums down. >> quick rebuttal. question from the moderator. every household has to prioritize. social security, medicaid, defense take up six out of every 10 federal dollars. >> thank you for the question. that is not the choice we will have to make. >> i understand. here is what you're going to do. we are going to make sure that job creators get back into the game.

if you want more revenue to come up into the federal government, you put people back to work. the best economic engine behalf is the american people. they want to compete. they want to strive for the american dream. you do that by getting them back to work. not by raising taxes. >> senator, 30 seconds. >> you can cut the medicare has to be saved. that is what we did. people say what you going to do about medicare? we already did something about medicare. we extended its life for another eight years. until 2024. if you want a cut, i will give you an example. defense, you can take some of our troops out of europe. that was an old cold war strategy. that will save us billions. >> the welcome back to budget and deficit questions. this question will be directed to senator nelson to request what should be done about the fiscal cliff coming on december 31?

it would bring huge tax increases and deep spending cuts. >> it is not going to happen. sequestration was never intended to happen. think back to what happened. we had an artificial debt ceiling that this country, it were not raised a year ago, we could not have paid our bills. so a budget agreement was put together. the was a cut of $1 trillion of the top. then there was a super committee of six from the house and six from the senate to reach a bipartisan agreement. the mechanism was like a guillotine over their heads. it would been so onerous that they would come to agreement. all you needed was one. deadlocked 6 to 6. that activated the sequestration. what will happen is after the election, we will go back, i can tell you over half of the senate bipartisan is ready to put

together that comprehensive plan, part of which i explained in an earlier question, where you can do cuts but you can get revenue from the tax loopholes lower everybody's tax rates and then have room to lower the deficit. >> thank you, sir. 1:15, congressman mack. >> this is a great question. this shows the ec one thing to the people florida and you do something else in washington, d.c.. you said we can't do sequestration. it will hurt our military. because of your vote on sequestration, you cut by $20 billion out of defense. you gutted our military.

you continue to send foreign aid to countries that do not support the united states of america. i find it interesting that you keep talking about medicare and see crustacean. you voted to take $700 billion out of medicare. it is a fact. to pay for obamacare. you voted to gut our military through sequestration. i cannot vote for sequestration. it was a dumb idea. we should have never done that. i think what is important here is that you can either have someone who tells you one thing but then votes with barack obama 98% of the time. make sure that we put florida first. we protect and save medicare. not gut it.

>> senator? 1:15. >> congressman, you are repeating the same lines over and over. would you voted against a year ago was ever going to let this country go into the false where it could not pay its bills. obviously the country could not do that. therefore, we had to try to get a bipartisan budget agreement. you were in the significant minority voting against that budget agreement. speaking of votes, why don't you explain how you do not show up to work? why don't you explain how this year you have one of the worst voting records. i have missed one vote this year, you have missed 178. and when you do show up the vote, it is even worse. one of the votes he missed was the paul ryan plan. that was the second paul ryan plan your ast would you support it, you said yes. a later interview, he said it was stupid it was no.

then your folks corrected you and you changed your position again. so why don't you explain to people why he missed all of these votes. >> let me make sure i do this clear for you. i will keep talking about this because these are your votes and you cannot run on them. you said i am in the minority. i might be in the minority with your kind in washington but i stand in the majority with the people of this state and country. as far as my voting record, i have a 94% voting record. you have been 92% voting record. last year, i cast 430 votes. you cast less than 200. you have a lot of explaining to do. >> how can you argue with someone who does completely pulls it out? he would have you think that i voted half the time because he voted -- 400 and i voted 203

>> we will have to take a break. back in a moment with more of the debate. welcome back to our florida senate debate on the campus of nova southeastern university. ms. campos, your question is directed to congressman mack. >> congressman mack, it seems when politicians address women issues, the campaign ads focus on abortion rights, control, and yet advocate in florida tell us domestic violence is the single most important issue that affects women. the cdc says one in every four women will face some form of domestic violence in their lifetime. the violence against women act has been allowed to expire. advocates in florida are asking that we -- it be reauthorize. what is your position on that? >> i am honored and proud to

have with me tonight three women that are very special to me. my wife, my mother who is here and the star of our new commercials, and my daughter. the idea that someone would harm anyone of them or anyone is disgusting. we need to do all we can to protect them. we also need to do all we can to make sure that they have an opportunity. i think about my daughter. will it be like when she gets

older and graduates to college, you are going to college, after you graduate college -- i want to make sure she has a good job. women are worried about jobs and security. and being secure at home and making sure their children are taken care of. and that they put food on the table. like i said, i into the question. i did answer the question. what would you reauthorize the violence against women act? >> yes. >> senator nelson. 1:15. >> we ought -- i have already voted for it. we cannot get the votes to break the filibuster in the senate. but i think we should ask further -- why did the congressman vote against the ledbetter bill that fought for equal pay for equal work for women. >> focusing on domestic violence and specifically for these programs. you voted for it with changes, it earmarks for sexual assault. the advocates in florida are asking for the reauthorization with no changes.

they say each state would be better suited to determine funding based on each state's needs. >> i will certainly look at a change there but we have to get it out of the senate and we could not get the 60 votes. violence is not -- isn't rape violence? congressman mack voted to redefine rape as forcible rape. it is clear he stands on women's issues. nextt's move on to the question. >> what he said it not true and we cannot let -- senator, i you need to do a better job of explaining your own record because you're messing up mine. apparently you are looking at somebody else. it is a shame.

the people of the state of florida are tired of you saying one thing to them and then going back to washington and voting with barack obama 98% of the time. they are tired of that. they want you to look them in the eyes and tell them what you are going to do for them instead of what we will do for barack obama. >> is that the only line that you memorize? [laughter] >> let me tell you that violence against women -- for you not to have produced it in the house where we were trying to produce it in the senate is -- here we are in 2012. it is true, you voted for a redefinition of rape as forcible rape. it seems to me that rape is rape. >> we will move on to the next question now. the slump will be directed first -- this one as a senator nelson predicts there are more delinquent mortgages in florida than any other state.

you supported the present housing initiatives but most of them have fallen short of expectations. what would you do and why should people vote for you if they are about to lose their homes when you have been in office during the worst housing crisis in recent history? >> florida was the one that really got hit the hardest along with a few other states. because of our economy being so dependent upon housing and construction and real estate. in number programs have been tried. some of them have been successful. let me tell you one that has been successful right now. it is going to allow 8 million people nationally to refinance their mortgages from 6.5% down in to the 4 % how but the connected the bank to do it because the mortgages were under water -- they could not get the banks to do it because the mortgages were under water. these mortgages that are held by fannie and freddie are now being refinanced so the homeowner on the $200,000 mortgage will save a total of 5000 a year in interest.

that is a successful program and it is going on right now. >> it is important that we understand what is happening here in the housing market. let me talk to you about a friend of mine who lost his job. he could not pay the bills. so he tried to use one of those new plants that barack obama and senator nelson passed. you know what he was told? before we can help you, you have to default on your loan. he does not want to default on the loan. it is against what he believes in. after all wild when he ran out of savings, he had to default on his loan predicted the program periodicity default on your loan, we cannot help you. -- on his loan. they changed the plan and said when you default on your loan,

we cannot help you. small community banks are afraid to lend money because he will shut them down. we talk about small businesses, the housing market. it is simple -- small banks want to lend money but if you put dodd frank on top of them, they are afraid he will put them out of business. that is not a way to get this economy going or help people stay in their homes. >> we will move on to anthony mann.

>> congressman, you had made clear you oppose obamacare and want to repeal it. would you maintain the parts popular but the public? no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, allowing young adults today on their parents' insurance, close in the medicare doughnut hole. how would you pay for them? >> thank you very much. i think most people recognize that obamacare must be repealed. this is a law, by the way, that was invented this bipartisanship. not one republican supported it. the american people do not support it. we need to repeal obamacare. here is why. not only do we not want a government run health care system that has an unelected board making decisions about people's health care decisions, we also did not want to whack away medicare advantage from our seniors. but there are things we can be

moving forward. one of the things we can do is association helped plan. let's say a small restaurant with 14 employees -- they can be part of the florida restaurant association, use that association to pull their buying power together to afford insurance. pre-existing conditions is something i think we can cover as well. but we will do first is repeal obamacare. if you want to get top leaders back into the game, you cannot -- those fees and taxes on top of small businesses trying to grow. there are rest are groups out there who are having to change their entire business plan. to deal with obamacare. >> senator. 1:15. >> there you go again. same message. the void of specifics devoid of specifics.

do you trust the independent fact checkers? factcheck.org, the school at the university of pennsylvania? they said everything that he said is not correct. and then when you look at the need to have something done with medicare, it is going to run out in three years if you repeal obamacare. it is going to end october of 2015 -- 2013. it will run out of money. that was one of the major reasons of passing a reform of medicare and health care system. what about the three and a half million people in florida that do not have health insurance? we want to get them into the health insurance system and that is why the health insurance exchanges are being set up in 2014.

>> senator, techie very much. we will be back in a moment. a quick rebuttal question. 30 seconds each. then be moved to foreign policy. the average american owes $51,000. we collected $2.50 trillion in revenue last year. senator, why isn't that enough? why do you want taxes to up up? >> i do not. >> you want to close the bush era tax cuts. >> $14 trillion over ten years in tax loopholes. it has grown to the last time i voted for tax reform under president reagan. >> congressman mack, a brief question.

>> here we go again. senator nelson is telling everyone else in the to get rid of tax loopholes but he has taken a vintage of one himself. if you want to do it, just do not tell the rest of us it is not good enough for us. if it is good enough for you, it should be good enough for everybody else. i am the only one in this race that has a plan to balance the budget. the only one willing to put that plan into the debate. senator nelson, you served on the budget committee and failed

to serve a budget. >> immigration policy. the question goes to senator nelson. >> senator nelson, there are an estimated 11 million undocumented people living in florida. hughes' support amnesty, creating a pathway to citizenship of these individuals to remain on u.s. soil are you believe that sets a dangerous precedent and is unfair to evans to of come to the country legally? >> i will answer that in detail but i will first say -- not only has it been a cow pasture for 60 years, why don't we ask him why he takes two homestead exemptions which is directly contrary to florida's constitution that says a husband and wife can only take one homestead exemption. now, what we need, and i voted for comprehensive immigration reform.

what you need is -- you have 11 million people here to read you have to get them in a situation where if they are eligible to go to the back of the line, they have to pay a fine, they have to have a clean record, they have to learn english and then they can apply. another one is what about children? children that came here through no fault of their own. the dream act. i have voted and sponsored the dream factory my opponent has voted against it. -- the dream act. my opponent has voted against it. a child that will upon by to wish to -- that upon graduation can go to college instead of being deported. >> this is an important question. but the answer is i started off by saying no, i do not support amnesty. we have to support our laws.

this reminds me of a gentleman that i met when i was a young man. he is from cuba. he came to the united states, became a citizen, work hard, saved his money. built a business. gave me my first job. this is someone who has chased the american dream. but the talk about immigration, we need to remember we are talking about people who are coming to the united states for a better way of life. that is something we should all be honored that people want to come said they can have a shot at the american dream. -- so they can have a shot at the american dream. we have to secure our borders. we have to give employers the tools they need with e-verify to make sure people who are looking for work are illegally -- are legally allowed to get work. we cannot continue to have a system that encourages people to break the law instead of do the right thing.

>> our next question will first be directed to congressman mack. >> after a recent uprising in the middle east including an attack on our continent in libya, many americans are worried about an attack on our soil or in of the war. who do you think is the single most dangerous person in the world when it comes to americans national security and what would you do to stop him or her? >> this is a great question. we have seen recently what happens when you have a weak foreign policy. we have seen around the world, the enemies of the united states challenged the united states. we have seen that this administration has backed away from our closest allies around the world.

we have seen this administration make it less safe in america because they are unwilling to stand strong for america and around the world. if i have the opportunity to be in the united states senate, i will stand up for america, america's values, and americans here and anywhere in the day around the world. what we need to do is make sure people like ahmadinejad in iran are not able to get a nuclear weapon. the administration has failed. they are for years closer to a nuclear weapon. there are examples all around the world where this administration has turned its back on our allies and vowed to our enemies -- bowed to our enemies. if you want to be sure, you stand stronger for americans all-around the world. >> to the question as to prioritize, the single biggest person and the single biggest threat to national security.

>> notice he walked all around your question. the greatest threat to the u.s. is a terrorist threat. we have a believable young men and women in uniform and not in uniform that you do not see in the cia, collecting information to keep us safe and to stop the terrorists before he acts in the first place. obviously iran with a nuclear weapon would be a tremendously destabilizing situation, effective united states or israel. the president has clearly said that he will not allow that to develop. this is where i believe you see the sharing, it is almost seamless, of the intelligence between israel and united states.

we have the common security concern here. there are other threats around the world. but what we need to do is to make sure we do not allow the radical extremists -- look at what is happening in pakistan. >> final time for that. we will have to move on. the final question will first be directed to congressman mack. >> should any changes be made it into the embargo against cuba and why not lift a completely in deal with cuba the way we deal with china? >> i was in error. that goes to you first of the congressman. 1:15, final answers. >> should any changes be made in the embargo against cuba and why not lift it entirely and deal with cuba the same way we deal with china? >> no, we should not lift the embargo. we should allow family members to travel and to take remittances. that have been expanded.

but not lifting the embargo. i want to go back, since we are coming to the closing, and tell you we have a great pride in this state on our space program. my opponent is the only member of the florida delegation that voted against the nasa bill. we have a pride of telling the truth and being personally responsible in this state. my opponent has filed a bill for a wall street hedge fund and speculator to collect $2 billion on bonds from a country that he bought on pennies for the dollar. he has filed a resolution to avoid a court judgment for $18 billion for the chevron corp., one of his largest contributors.

>> one sentence. accompanied his clothes progress because cuba as closer -- he needs to close. >> because cuba is closer and the anbar -- the embargo has had a positive affect. >> you keep talking about my research. you do not understand. that is the problem. we were talking about the embargo. fidel castro and his brother are brutal people. brutal people. murdering their own people. i talked about my friend from cuba.

talking to him about what he observes in cuba. within the embargo, the only thing it would do would pad the pockets of the castro brothers. if castro wants to open up cuba, it is all in their hands. free and fair elections. release the political prisoners. freedom of speech. we should not lift the embargo to help fund someone who wants to hurt his own people. senator nelson has voted to weaken restrictions. >> we will have to call time on that. our affiliates are demanding give that power back to them. we will stay here as long as he went after. i sure i speak for all of my colleagues across florida and the nation. as long as he would like to stay. but for now, one-minute closings. senator nelson first.

>> my opponent has a pattern of not telling the truth. and you have seen it in a display. we will substantiate all of how he has not told the truth. he rails against the stimulus bill. he did not tell you he wrote a letter to the department of transportation in order to get $29 million of stimulus in his congressional district. i want to thank you for the privilege of public service. i want to ask for your vote. when i flew in space, i looked through the window of that space craft back at earth. it was stunning that i did not see any political divisions and i did not see any ethnic and religion -- religious divisions. we are all in this together. that is a metaphor of what we should do for our politics.

bring people together in a positive way. we are americans and that is what we have today. >> thank you. i want to thank those that made this debate possible. i wish we could have more debates in this close election. you have seen tonight why we need a change in washington, d.c. our government is failing us. bill nelson voted for obamacare. i voted against it. he voted to gut our military. i voted to strengthen our military. he voted for higher taxes 150 times. i voted to cut taxes. i believe in free markets, free enterprise and free people. i believe we need to renew the american spirit and the american dream. if we all work together, we can get this done. mitt romney need somebody he can count on and we need another republican senator from the

state of florida. i am asking you to stand with me. i am asking you to step with mitt romney. i am asking for your vote. >> thank you. goodnight. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> i have made mistakes in my personal finances. i am not perfect. i faxed them. everyone who has -- i have fix them. everyone who has worked in to this said they are false. what makes a lot of these attack ads that we have seen from the mcmann troubling is the fact that during the exact same time, she had not paid back the $1 million she owed her creditors from a bankruptcy 36 years ago. >> i agree we need to talk about

the issues of the state. a financial slip is not we -- what we're talking about. you need to be honest with the people of connecticut. be honest about your special interest loan, your attendance in washington. those are issues that are important to the folks of connecticut. can they trust the congressman or senator they are sending to washington to represent them and work and fight for them? i have had a career of creating jobs and create -- contracting to the connecticut a commie. >> all this month, followed the key house, senate, and governor's races on c-span, c- span radio, and c-span that .org.campaign receipts c-sp we have another debate at

o'clock eastern. it will be between tommy thompson and congresswoman tammy baldwin. coverage a live of the house smith dinner. it has provided comic relief. in 2008, then-candidate barack obama was the butt of his jokes, saying that his first name was swahili for that one. he noted that he got his name from someone who never thought he would run for president. now live to the senate debate in virginia between george allen and tim kaine. >> welcome, everyone, to the

last debate of this virginia campaign. i am coming to you live from the beautiful campus in virginia. ♪ [applause]

>> again, good evening. i am jay warren, your monitor for tonight's debate. joining me also has to be the chairman of virginia tech, and a professor here. behind us is a very lively and enthusiastic southwest virginia crowd filling the theater. we welcome them and we welcome all of you. not only across all of southwest virginia and the commonwealth, but coming to you nationwide on c-span. tonight is your opportunity to hear directly from the candidates, unfiltered and unedited. it is our hope that this will be a lively hour. one that will explore new ground and forces the candidates to really face the issues that are not only troubling here, but our entire country.

you will be able to vote on november 6, making a more informed and educated decision. it is my honor to introduce them to you. in the interest of time, we have asked our audience to only -- to not applaud tonight. only at the end of the bay -- of the debate and at the beginning of the debate. the former governor and senator of virginia, george allen. [applause] now, the democrat in this race, from richmond, va., a former governor of virginia, tim kaine. [applause]

i think i told you we have an enthusiastic crowd. we do. thank you for agreeing to protests debate in this important debate and it is a paid and put your self out there. we decided everything by the toss of a coin. the result of that, we will begin with governor kaine. 90 seconds. >> thank you for this opportunity. it is great to be back to virginia tech. i feel close to this community. we have challenges as a nation. the main one is to continue to accelerate the economy and grow jobs. in order to do that, we have to have a congress that knows how to work together. i learned some valuable lessons as mayor and governor. one started here on this campus. in 2008, we were going through what became the worst recession in 75 years. your president, and other

university leaders, came and said, times are tough. why do we not do a construction campaign on the state colleges tasks there was an idea to build a virginia tech school of medicine. i worked together and by the end of it, we did a $1.4 billion -- that is to revitalize the roanoke economy. it was about jobs, public, private partnership, education, infrastructure. i have a long jobs plan. i just summarize it. democrats and republicans have to work together. that is what is needed in washington. that is how i have governed. that is the u.s. senator i will be if you send me and i have a chance to serve. >> thank you.

>> thank you for watching. susan and i have been listening to the people of virginia. they want leaders to work together to get our economy back on the right track, create jobs, stocks washington spending, and restore the american dream. i want to be virginia's senator. tim wants to be president obama's senator. he went around the country giving partisan speeches. instead of staying home and dealing with economic crisis, tim chose to leave. on every significant issue, he has been for the obama policies that have been hurting virginians. from the harmful energy policies that are devastating communities, to our electric bills skyrocketing.

obamacare that is endangering the access of medicare to our seniors. now, this sequestration deal is threatening another 200,000 virginia jobs. in washington, you deserve a strong, independent voice. if i have the honor of serving as your united states senator, i will work hard to build a society where hard work is rewarded and every american has an opportunity to succeed. >> thank you for those opening statements. we want to get to the questions. you will receive 90 seconds to enter each section -- question. we have a lot of great questions from our viewers. we will be weaving that into these questions. neither candidate or campaign has knowledge or access to any of the questions we will ask tonight. this is your last opportunity

state-wide to communicate to the voters. as a result, i want to begin with what i think is the campaign narrative and what has become the criticism for both of you. governor kaine, we will begin with you. you will be president obama's senator kerry you heard it just now. you are friends with the president. you were the chair of the party at his request. you are touting your working relationship with the senator in virginia. he has voted with the democratic leadership of 93% of the time. how can you reassure the voters tonight you will not the senator ?ba >> let me start with the comment that i will not the virginia's senator. this is the difference between the two of us. i do not think it is anti-

virginia and to support the president of the united states. or to support the commander in chief. when i was governor for three years, president bush was president. i worked very closely with him on the response to the tragic suiting here at virginia tech, -- shooting here at virginia tech. we disagree a lot. in any area we do agree, i consider him a partner. i will always work with the president of united states to be a partner. when george was in the senate, he voted before president bush 96% of the time. no one suggested he was not a virginia senator because he supported president bush. i have had a long track record of serving my community as a non-partisan city councilman, winning accolades for cutting building schools.

when i was governor, we were the best managed state for business all four years, and my favorite, education week, the best state to raise a child. i did that by being a good leader and making the kinds of independent choices virginians want. >> senator allen, you have 90 seconds to respond to what he said. >> he had a choice to make when he was governor. he talked about the economic crisis in virginia. he chose to go around the country, demonizing republicans. he called them corrosive. he called them the downer party, the teabags party. that does not bring goodwill amongst people. when you are the governor of virginia, you have the greatest

honor that anybody could be bestowed upon by the people of virginia. he chose to leave and spend his time going around the country raising money and giving partisan speeches and advocating for these policies that are so harmful to virginia, whether it is the energy policies that are devastating southwest virginia communities, or seniors with medicare, we have skyrocketing spending that has us in debt with china, and the sequestration deal. while tim was going around uncovering funds for the democratic party, he should have been spending time here in virginia on covering funds for our department of transportation. maybe he would not have been shutting down rest areas all over virginia. that is not good management. that is an embarrassment. if he was actually paying attention to his job, he might have found there were over a

billion dollars and you could of found about $8 million and not had that and harassment of shutting down rest areas. >> your rebuttal? >> he has a double standard. when he was the senator from virginia for two years, he was the head of the republican campaign committee. he praised the governor who became the chairman of the republican national committee. he praised governor mcdonald for being head of the republican governor's association last year. virginia is an important state. our leaders are strong. what virginians care about, in 2009, the vote -- four states were singled out and it was said four states have done what it takes. we banned smoking. virginia was ranked number 1. we worked with the bush

administration. i recruited the following companies to move their headquarters to virginia. hilton, rolls royce. we made great strides cutting infant mortality. virginians care about results. in the toughest times since the 1930's, we got results every year i was governor, especially in 2009. >> thank you. the criticism of your campaign has been a lingering question of how will george allen be in a second term and how will that be different? you walked with the republican leadership and the bush agenda. you just heard that from governor kaine. at times, you voted with their party up to 98% of the time. if you are reelected, will you return to that voting pattern or will you espouse a more

bipartisan agenda that will actually move forward in virginia and the country? >> i will be a senator for the people of virginia. losing that last election was a humbling experience. you learn from losing and have time to reflect. and see how things are going in washington and how every vote matters and how they seem to be out of touch with the needs and concerns i hear from people all over virginia. i will be focused on jobs, virginia. that is what is needed in washington. i have worked across party lines. you talk about records? the democrats control the legislature when i was governor. we were able to cut taxes by $600 million. not as much as i would have liked, but we did. tim trying to raise taxes. we also reduced the size of the state work force by 9000. there were over 300,000 net new jobs created.

i use all of my time i could for jobs and recruiting investment to virginia. tim was out running around the country advocating for obama's policies as well as raising money and trying to get folks like harry reid and nancy pelosi reelected. when he was governor, over 100,000 jobs were lost. i have worked across party lines. i want to work with republicans and democrats to get this economy going. i think we can find common ground to make sure our tax laws are more competitive and simple. if we do that, i think we will send a message to the world america is open for business again. >> i think what the audience sought is he was asked a question about his senate record and he was talking about being governor. he is running for reelection to the united states senate. he had a fiscal irresponsibility. george came into the united states senate with historic

surpluses. we were in great shape. by the time he left, we had massive deficits. he voted to increase the debt by $16,000 every second he was in the senate. he expanded medicare, which was good, but he did not pay for it. he was part of a senate and a house that declared two wars but did not pay for the wars and instead put them on the credit card for our kids to pay. he made a massive tax cuts to health -- to help the wealthy. he did not pay for them. we went from surplus to deficit. he voted four times to raise his own pay. he voted four times to raise the debt with it, he voted for 52,000 earmarks that totaled $121 billion. even george had to admit, spending was a problem when i was in the senate. we do not need to go back to it. he is a harsh partisan.

he attacked hillary clinton as someone who does not share our values. attacking john kerry. george would not joined a gang to bring senators together. he said, we do not need to compromise. >> your rebuttal? >> john warner and i worked as a team for virginia. i am proud of john warner as a friend and ally. as far as my office budget, we turned back $1.40 million in the six years i served as senate. we showed you can reduce. as governor, i was comparing it because that is a comparison one can make. tim waited two years and cut his by only 5%. when i left the senate, the unemployment rate was only 4.4%. has been hovering around 8% for 44 months.

the spine -- the spending, it does need to get under control. there needs to be disciplined. the annual budget deficit was $160 billion. now, it has been over $1 trillion. it is because of the policies and spending tim kaine has been advocating. you talk about $16,000 per second. it is now $47,000 per second spending. he criticized the tax cuts i reported? 7 million american jobs were created and. i am glad we reduced taxes on families and small businesses. >> thank you. our next question goes to governor kaine. >> according to forbes, medicare is scheduled to cost the country $1 trillion annually in the next 10 years. simply put, the rate of growth

is simply unsustainable you have proposed some changes to the system which seem modest. is there something bigger needed, including possibly increasing the age for eligibility for those under 50? >> thank you for asking. medicare is critically important. it is an important safety net proposal that helps our seniors deal with the cost of medicine. the budget is growing in a very accelerated way. let's start off and say it is growing for a good reason. we are living longer. this is a problem. it is caused by success. but the knowledge that. we have to get medicare costs under control. i have put a plan on the table. when medicare was expanded when george allen was senator to cover prescription drugs, i heartily support that.

i think it is great. the congress made two huge errors. they chose not to pay for the expansion. second, they guaranteed pharmaceutical companies they would not negotiate for the prices of prescription drugs. that was foolish. no pharmacy would make that mistake. if we allow the federal government to negotiate for prices with pharmaceutical credit -- companies, and we already do when we buy the same drugs, we save $25 billion over a year. we should have made that change years ago. we will have more to do. essentially, what we need to do is continue on experiments that are pilot projects under way where we pay in our health-care system for health the outcomes rather than just pay for procedures. we get great procedures and a lot of them. >> to answer your question on

medicare, i have proposed a way to make sure medicare is solvent for the future. i believe we need to make sure social security and medicare for current recipients, as well as for generations. two ideas i think would help. one, a gradual age increase for eligibility. as well as an income adjustment to it. tim criticizes it. i think it makes a great deal of sense that we treat someone with high-priced -- high blood pressure before they have a stroke. there is more competition and choice. seniors to not have to go up hills and worry about whether they have to afford medications. with the competition, it came under budget. as far as obamacare is concerned, he said it is "great for democrats." i do not think it is great for seniors.

they are very worried the obamacare approach will raise $700 billion from medicare. we have already heard from someone who has had heart trouble. he will go back to medical research rather than providing the help to him. he will have to find another doctor. as far as seniors are concerned, while i was governor, we have cut taxes on senior social security benefits and remove the discriminatory tax. tim should explain why he wants to raise taxes on people earning as little as $17,000 a year, including many people on social security and medicare. >> let me talk about senator allen and health care. premiums for american families went up by 80%. he does not have a health care record as a senator, except for

voting for the medicare expansion. i said i thought it was a good idea to expand, but i criticize george for the cost to american taxpayers $25 billion a year. why do we not fix that? i am saying we should not be giving $25 billion a way to form a rigid to pharmaceutical companies. -- a way to pharmaceutical companies. preventative care, reduce price prescription drugs. george wants to repeal the affordable care act, and give it back to insurance companies. that is not my idea of a medicare reform or a health-care plan. >> senator allen, i have a straightforward question. if the bowles-simpson plan to reduce the deficit and balance

the budget came in the senate as is, would you vote for it. if not, what is your math to get to the balanced budget? >> i think the bowles-simpson approach was an idea from the president, and the president walked away from it as if it was a dead animal on the front porch. you would think half -- i think what ought to be done, here is my plan that ought to be done for fiscal sanity. we ought to repeal every obamacare. it is adding one trillion dollars -- $1 trillion in spending. it is hurting small businesses and job opportunities. secondly, tim talks about revenue. the only way to raise revenue is by raising taxes, he thinks.

raising taxes would cause more job losses. another way is with a vibrant, strong, healthy economy, where businesses are profiting and people are working. this is what i do like about bowles-simpson. comprehensive reform. eliminating loopholes of our tax laws. i am proposing in my blueprint a 20% tax, much lower than the world 25%. that would create new jobs a year. another way to get revenues -- if we did that, throughout virginia, there would be hundreds of thousands of jobs created, we would have more affordable fuel and food and electricity, and the federal government would get over $1 trillion in revenues without raising taxes. that is the plan that will get

america moving in the right direction. >> i let you go over but you did not answer the question. we have to have a balanced approach for dealing with the budget. you cannot get balance through in balance. -- imbalance. george's approach is to close it as follows. make all the bush tax cut permanent, even for the wealthiest. now it is getting bigger. then, close the tax all through cuts. if you have to have that big a gap, you will cut deeply into priorities that matter. i have a different approach. let the books -- pushed tax cuts expire. -- bush tax cuts expire. if you do that, you start to close the deductions.

i had to do that as governor. i am the only governor in modern times to leave office with a smaller general fund budget and when i started. george's budget went up 45% in four years. i know how to make cuts. an all-cuts approach as he proposes, he said not $1 of revenue for $10 of cuts, the all-cuts approach that starts with extending tax cut for the wealthiest would hurt our economy, heard our priorities, and hurt virginia. >> just to make it clear, we ought to reform the entire tax code in washington. the bush tax cuts helped to create over 7 million new jobs. what i would like to see is a tax code that is more simple. i think there really is the basis of a bipartisan agreement

on the spirit i am abrogating 20%. some people are advocating higher. i think we can get around the table and come to agreement and have a comprehensive tax reform. tim talks about added spending. we cut state taxes. we promoted virginia for economic development and over 300,000 jobs were created. net new jobs. it is a prime example of the differences tim and i have. i think more jobs, more hiring, more investment is the answer. virginia is the perfect lesson astim'quangs star years governor were over 100,000 jobs were lost. while i was governor, we cut taxes, froze college tuition, and over 300,000 net new jobs created. you talk about results, those matter. >> a question was fairly specific. will you vote for the simpson-

bowles plan as is. i interpret your answer as a no? >> it should be brought up and work its way through the legislative process. >> would you support it as is? >> i would supported the way i propose our ideas. [laughter] >> yes or no? >> i would amend it. >> i would support a plan that makes $2 or $3 a cut for every dollar of revenues. that is the way i govern. the particular plan, there are a couple things about and i do not like. i do not think they need to reform social security. it is not contributing to the deficit. >> you are hearing laughter because they are confused. is it no and no? >> as is, we are both saying no. [laughter]

>> we have agreement. you will get to ask each other a question in this segment. you will ask a question of senator allen. >> when you were in the senate, one of the votes cast was to begin the privatization of security, giving folks an opportunity to give their contributions into private accounts. that would weaken the solvency for the current retirees and left to the camp for bidders at the mercy of what happened in the market. our fiscal cliff collapsed two years later, it would have hurt them. would you now agree that was a bad idea? the cost of social security should never be privatized? >> it is important we recognize such as security needs to be solvent for current recipients as well as future generations. i would never for someone. -- force someone.

employers pay into it. if people want social security, which most do, that should be the case. we need to make some reforms in social security. the age of eligibility can be increased gradually for those who are younger than age 50, currently or soon on social security, leave it the same. there should be an income adjustment. that would help the solvency. another thing that will help is jobs. the most recent forecast, it will go bankrupt three years earlier. into why,in wh -- delve fewer people are working. people to provide for themselves and their retiring years. it is why i think people ought to be able to use their social security funds or 401k's so they

do not have to lose their homes and lose all their assets in the events they need assistant living later in life. i want to make sure social security is solvent for future generations. >> what george did not defend his earlier votes, and he continues to believe it is a good idea. i will battle against the privatization of social security to and nail. i will tell you why. social security since the 1930's has been designed to help seniors not live in poverty. workers chip in, out of their paycheck, to support a dignified retirement for the people who raised them, their parents, grandparents, people who coached them little league or talk and sunday school. if you allow people to not ship into the social security trust fund but set up their own account, those retirees who are counting on that, have a trust

fund that goes insolvent very fast and their retirement is jeopardized. people month -- putting money in their own accounts have a potential problem, too. we saw that when the stock market collapsed. maybe you are a good investor but people do crazy things and they cause a at -- an international meltdown. what you count on for retirement is gone. the social security program passed in the 1930's has enabled american seniors live not in poverty. options for retirement, that is fantastic. we should never privatize social security and give people to keep it accounts -- in accounts and jeopardize the solvency for the retirement of seniors. >> i want to focus my question on jobs. tim, you supported 3 obama initiatives that our job killers. energy taxes that could cause

66,000 jobs in virginia. obamacare. the devastating for small businesses. and the sequestration deal which is threatening to hundred thousand jobs in virginia. why did you support president obama on these job killing proposals? >> let's talk about jobs. let's compare our records. you were proud as your record as governor, but you were governor during the clinton years, the biggest expansion of the american economy since world war ii. i was governor during the deepest recession since the 1930's. that was largely promoted by policies you voted for when your in senate. was the unemployment rate higher when i was governor? it was in one measure. let's measure fairly. let's look at fate -- states and rank them best to worst. virginia was doing better, we were nearer to the top in terms of unemployment when i was

governor than when you were governor. it was harder to manage during tough times and i was doing it. on the three points you mentioned, i did support a notion to try to control -- you have a different view on signs. you cannot believe human activity of the climate. i think human activity affects climate. we have to find strategies to stop over using our car been used. we can do it. i work hard to permit a plan that shows there is a cleaner future for caloal. that is what i will promote. on the affordable care act, i like seniors having free preventative care. i like 21 to 26 year olds on their family policies. on sequester, i know my time is

up. i will save that. >> can thank you. [laughter] >> do i get a rebuttal? >> yes. >> he admitted he did not answer the whole question. there were tough times when i came in as governor as well. my predecessor had tough times, as well. what we did is not raise taxes. tim, you try to raise taxes on working women, seniors, and people earning as little as $70,000 a year. that does not help make the state more attractive for business. we do have a record. a record of jobs for virginia. you mentioned the same facility. under the regulations i oppose, and if i am in the united states senate, i will stop those -- stop those regulations, by those

regulations, that plan could not be permanent. it is a clean coal facility. is a great facility. it is enormous. the reality is the regulations that the obama administration is proposing would not allow that plan to be built under those regulations. you say, do not fight those. do you know what that will mean? higher electricity and fuel costs, and fool -- and food costs. the people in washington would be proposing this tax that would hurt lower-income people the most. other countries, china, india, russia, brazil, none of them would propose that on their own citizens. it is the kind of approach that american enterprise systems not have to have on them, nor working families. >> thank you. i apologize for skipping your rebuttal the next question goes

to tim kaine. you have mentioned that already. you noted president obama us plan calls for them to -- obama's plan. are you saying you would not, under any circumstance, vote for an obama budget or an obama bill that came to the senate that says we will cut the bush tax cuts and let them expire? >> i think my proposal is the right proposal. i will not vote for of bills that i know have a no chance of passing the house. you saw what happened this summer. they let the bush tax cuts expire over 250,000. full knowledge nothing would happen. the house passed their bill to make the task cuts permanent. they sent it to the senate with full knowledge it would not

happen. the time for the no compromise positions is over. we need a compromise. a year ago, i put on the table this compromise. we have to find one, the bush tax cuts are set to expire, and if we do it right, we can avoid defense cuts. if we let the tax cuts expire over $500,000, that raises $500 billion of revenue over 10 years. if we do not come up with a solution, let the bush tax cuts expire, there is have a solution. fix this medicare problem george voted for he would not take back and allow negotiation for prescription drug prices. another $240 billion. let's take away the subsidies that the oil company's debt. they make $135 billion in profits last year. why are we giving them subsidies? now we have a compromise that, instead of $1 trillion of sequester cuts, we have to find

$235 billion in savings over 10 years. that is the kind of compromise that can be supported by democrats and republicans. now is the time for compromise. we can do it for the good of the virginia economy and our defense industry. >> tim talks about raising taxes again. i think it is wrong. to be using the 200 men and women -- 200,000 men and women in virginia whose jobs are threatened by the sequestration deal that i opposed and tim set in debates is the right thing to do. they should not be used as a political bargaining chip to raise taxes on small businesses. president obama said in 2009 that raising taxes in a weak economy is a bad idea. the growth in our economy and gdp is worth -- worst now than it was then. it will always be more harmful.

in a recent debate, he said he would consider everyone pay more taxes. that is consistent with him trying to raise state taxes on people earning as little as $70,000 a year. you are wondering, do you realize folks out there are hurting? people cannot afford any more taxes. people are paying $30 or more more every time they fill up with gasoline compared to january 2009. you start blasting oil companies, and you were ultimately pay the price. it will go on to consumers. i know someone who could only afford $20 of gas. i asked her if she could fill up and get it all. it would cost to $37 more. what would you do? she said, i could provide for my family. these are real people in the real world being hurt. the last thing we need is more

taxes on working families. >> george, you stand -- he started by answering i am trying to hold the military hostage to raise taxes. you and i are both fathers. this is very personal to me. [indiscernible] i have a son who has started a career in the military. i will not do things that will hurt the troops or defense. i will not do things hurting veterans. our veterans services budget doubles because we have work to do to make sure veterans were protected. i was commander in chief of the virginia guard during two wars, and i went to iraq and afghanistan to see those men and women. i went to homecomings and funerals and wakes. i will not do anything that will hurt the defense. i recruited contractors to move to virginia. i put a plan on the table, very specific, a compromise, that

will avoid defense cuts. you're only plan is to appeal the affordable care act, which would increase the deficit, then require more cuts. >> this next question, it goes to you, senator. you said we ought to repeal and replace obamacare. in the same answer, he said in the last debate one of the most popular provisions in this law should be kept. people should stay on their parents' health care until they are 26. that is popular but it has to be paid for. specifically, how would you keep the popular provisions of the health care reform what if you repeal the rest of the law. >> let me finish up on what tim said on the previous and i will get to this. it is very important. i will tell you about holding hostage men and women. >> we are not talking about hostages, george.

you used the word hostage. [laughter] we are not talking about hostages. >> let me use the words of the secretary of defense, a democrat. he says if this sequestration deal, it would be devastating to our military. i cannot imagine myself voting for something that could be so potentially harmful to our military readiness and jobs in virginia. you supported it and said it is the right thing to do. you cannot avoid that the secretary offense -- of defense said this would be devastating. if you listen to defense contractors, it has already affected -- on health care reforms, i think it is better for young people to be on the apparents' policies. -- on their parents' policies. i think we ought to allow

small businesses to band together across state lines and get more competition and afford health care. i think we ought to be promoting affordable, reliable, health saving accounts that people can take from job to job. >> governor. >> we do not need a panel making decisions. >> thank you. saying someone will hold the military hostages is like saying someone is anti-virginian if they support the president of the united states. is the kind of rhetoric we need less of, not more of in washington. on the sequestration issue, let's go back to the deal as it was done. in the summer of 2011, a deal was needed to avert an international fiscal collapse. the deal was not pretty. the alternative was america would default on its credit for the first time ever and we would

have an international fiscal collapse. that is why this sequestration deal, although it was not pretty, was supported by john banner, by our governor, a veteran, by president obama, the u.s. chamber of commerce, and by everyone in congress trying to find a compromise. george allen stood outside and shook his fists and said, we do not want to support a compromise. we did not the fault, we got a bond downgrade. the reason for the downgrade was not the deal. it was that so many leaders light george were willing to stand up and play chicken with american finances. we can avoid these defense cuts. we can only avoid them with a compromise. the only compromise you have heard is repealed be affordable care act. it has already been tried. the has been a two-year litigation in the supreme court. that is not a compromise.

>> could you address the mass of how you pay for it if you repeal? >> if we are talking about sequestration, let me point out what we need. [laughter] we need spending caps. a balanced budget amendment. as far as averting these cuts, the house of representatives and others passed a measure in may to avert these cuts. went over the senate. what have they done? nothing. they have not passed a budget in over 3.5 years. i will tell you a place where we are spending these cuts. i do not think the members of congress should get paid if they do not get the bills done on time. they are passing these continuing resolutions that call on for months. the health saving accounts and employers being able to ban together businesses, there is no great cost to that. people are taking care of themselves. businesses are getting more

affordable insurance. as far as 26-year-old on parents' policy, mom and dad will be paying for but it is better for your children to be covered then not covered. >> this goes to mr. kaine. >> with the recent attack of our consulate in libya, and the admission from our administration that this was an act of terrorism, as the obama administration, in your opinion, overstated the degree to which it has slowed or dismantled al qaeda? >> i think al qaeda remains a very serious concern in different parts of the world. we went to afghanistan to wipe out bin laden and al qaeda. i am happy we have done it. virginia troops are not being deployed so repeatedly now that we are out of iraq and we have been laudable -- bin laden and al qaeda.

we need to take the fight to al qaeda where ever they are, yemen, africa, we have to continue to go after al qaeda until all the leadership is gone. the incident in libya was a very troubling one. we need to get to the bottom of it. to find out everything that happened and everything we can find. i have been asked about foreign debates. when something like this happens, it reminds me of how we work together in the aftermath of that horrible tragedy to get answers and make improvements. you find what happened, you find everything that has been done differently. what virginia tech has done on campus safety has not only made this campus safer, but it has served as a model for other campuses. we need to take the same model with respect to the attacks on libya. get to the bottom of it. find out what went wrong. then do what we need to do to protect our personnel across the globe. the other thing we can do is the house budget will reduce

spending for security. i do not think reducing spending on security is a good idea. that is something we have to fix going forward. >> this is an example of what has happened to our consulate and our ambassador being killed and our embassies throughout the middle east, north africa, brought the world, being attacked. it is why the sequestration deal is not only wrong but it is dangerous. we have to find who was involved in libya. my view is any country that does not protect our embassies ought not get a tennis -- a penny of american taxpayer dollars. $450 billion going to egypt and the muslim brotherhood. i do not think that money ought to be sent because they proved they will be working with us against terrorism, by their trading with our good friend in the middle east, israel, and we need to be unified with israel,

shoulder to shoulder with israel, preventing iran from getting nuclear weapon capability. one of the big missed opportunities of this president being quiet when they had the spring uprising and the resolution -- the revolution in iran. i remember ronald reagan said -- he called the soviet union the evil empire. we should have at least said those in iran who wanted a free and just society. the president kept quiet. i do agree with tim kaine on the issue of virginia tech. everyone should be commended by that response and all campuses are more say. i would like to ask you do you think we ought to be sending -- spending $450 billion?

>> in my response, george talked more about sequestered. i want to do the same. we put two very clear visions on the table. we agree we have to stop defense cuts. we have two plans. i say we can avoid defense cuts and keep our economy strong buy these simple three steps. bush tax cuts expire. reform medicare. take tax subsidies away from oil companies. george's answer to the sequester is to be against it but his only answer is to repeal the affordable care act, which is not a compromise and it makes the deficit worse. i think the balance the budget on both sides of the balance sheet. i reduced taxes, business taxes, utility taxes, real- estate taxes. i took tens of thousands of low income virginians off the income tax rolls. if we need more revenue for the good of the country and defense, i will ask for it.

i have the experience of cutting spending, something george allen has never done as senator kerry >> thank you for asking those questions. by the toss of the coin, we have determined 90 seconds for senator alalen. >> thank you for watching this debate. you will determine the direction of our country. we do have two different missions of the future of our country. we have earned various endorsements. i have been endorsed by the u.s. chamber of commerce. virginia voters, veterans vision, the nra. the promise of american dream is at stake right now. if you envision a better future than what we have to endure these days, i invite you to join with us in this campaign.

i do not care to talk about republicans versus democrats. everybody who uses electricity should be on our side. anybody who drives a car, unless you like paying $30 more when you fill up, ought to be on albert side. if you think health care decisions ought to made by doctors and physicians and not a panel, you should be on our side. if you pay taxes, you ought to be with us. if you have a child or want to get work, you should be on our side. our idea is to create more job opportunities. if you care about the future of your children and grandchildren, we welcome you to our side. i ask you all to examine the records of the two candidates closely. if you care about virginia and jobs, i respectfully ask you to allow me to work for you in washington where my job will be to protect your spirit >s.

>> one of my favorites scriptures is psalm 133, how wonderful it is one brothers are in unity. we say the pledge of allegiance every day to one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all. there is a lot of unity words there. the problem is while we can act that way, none is more apparent than here in virginia tech in 2011 -- 2007, the way the community pulled together, you did not have to be on campus. you could see it on the tv screens something special was happening. our congress does not know what unity is. we have to put people in congress to do. when john warner, republican, was proud, he led a gang of 14, sediment -- seven democrats and seven republicans. george allen was in the senate. he did not joined a gang of 14. he ridiculed senator warner's

efforts and said we do not need republicans to compromise. there is a new effort. the gang of six. democrats and republicans work together. i have pledged to join that gang if i join the senate. george allen has made pledges that would be contrary to everything we are trying to do to come together. he says thing that -- things like kaine does not support virginia because he supports the president. we need less of that in washington and more people who can build bridges. >> chairman, thank you. let's give them a round of applause. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

>> thank you to our audience. [applause] again, thank you for holding this off to the end. we have a few seconds left. a feisty debate but a formidable one. i commend you both for dedicating your careers and lives to public service here in virginia and to advance in the issues you care the most about. let me thank my partner and all of this and the wsls team to pull this all together. i would say you are the most professional, dedicated, passionate group. i am really honored to work with you every day. this would not have been possible without virginia tech. they did a tremendous job and 8 -- they were a great partner. thank you at home for watching and to the audience for

participating. with that, do not forget to vote on november 6. good night. >> we will have more debate coverage to more night from texas, ted cruz and paul sadler. you can go to c-span's website to see the latest events on the campaign trail. watch the latest campaign ads of both videos. c-span.org/campaign2012. up next, a campaign 2012 debate live from wisconsin. then the alfred smith dinner, followed by president clinton. >> i love these debates. these things are great. [applause]

i think it is interesting the president still does not have an agenda for a second term to you not think that it is time for him to put together a vision of what he would do in the next four years when he is elected? he has to come up with that over this weekend. there is only one they left on monday. >> his tax plan does not add up. his jobs plan does not create jobs. this deficit reduction plan as to the deficit. everybody here has heard of the new deal. you have heard of the fair deal. you have heard of the square deal. mitt romney is trying to sell you a step to deal -- a sketchy deal. >> watch and engage monday as president obama and mitt romney president obama and mitt romney meet in their final debate