book ireton, florida. our previous starts at 7:00 p.m. eastern, followed by the debate at 9:00 and your reaction at 10:30, live it c-span, c-span radio and online at c-span.org. >> a senate debate in wisconsin between former governor tommy thompson and congresswoman tammy baldwin. it's hosted by wisconsin public television. >> live from the civic engagement theater, it is this wisconsin 2012 debate. >> it is a packed house. 350 audience members join us for the senate debate. >> i'm charles benson. senateelcome the u.s.

candidate, republican tommy thompson and democrat tammy baldwin. >> our format tonight makes sense that you and dave between and on moderated questions between the candidates. the candidates will talk with each other on the issues. these will be one-on-one conversations. we will not participate in those exchanges. >> instead, it is a chance for them to challenge their upon it for more detail on their position and have a healthy exchange of ideas. >> you can join the conversation tonight by going to wisconsinvote.org or today pmj4.com for a web chat. our first topic -- jobs and the

economy, a subject that was high on the list of voter concerns as we traveled the state. >> jobs is number one. a lot of people, myself included, ended up losing their jobs so i think jobs is the biggest key right now for a wisconsin. >> i am concerned that once i read straight, am i going to be able to find my career? -- once i graduate. >> it is my age that is pulling me down. nobody calls you back. >> with that backdrop, we ask our first question. economics 101 is about supply and demand. its demand that promotes hiring. what is the best way to an increased demand for products and services and to stimulate the economy? you have 90 seconds. >> first, thank you very much for having us here tonight.

thank the audience for coming. thank you. when i was governor, i was faced with a similar situation. i worked with democrats to cut taxes 91 times. we created a state that was very open for business. we were able to create 742,000. working together, we were able to establish a state that was on fire. in regards to economic growth and development, job creation, unemployment below 2%, everybody that wanted a job could have one. that is by record. i am of reformer. my opponent on the other side had a paper company. there was a role put in by the epa that would cost the paper company 7500 jobs. some of those jobs here. my opponent, voted with the epa

and those jobs could be lost next year because of the epa rules and regulations. the paper industry is a very crucial to this area, the state of wisconsin, and i want to tell the people of this state, just like i have always fought for wisconsin, create jobs and opportunity, i will continue to do so. i will not give epa the opportunity to close down paper companies in wisconsin like my upon it does. >> congresswoman, your turn. >> i want to thank you for sponsoring this debate and the audience as well as the television audience for participating. if you ask about demand and the impact on jobs. right now, the middle class in this state is struggling. the census bureau figures say that median income has gone down 14.5% of the last decade. we are not talking about the recent recession, we are talking

about the decade. and i think we need a plan moving forward for jobs, deficit reduction, texas, etc. that keeps the middle class and the strength and the growth of the middle class at heart. when people have extra money in their pockets, they will spend it in small businesses across this state. growth is one of the key, having people with discretionary income is key to growth. i agree we are in the heart of the paper producing region of wisconsin. that is why i introduced bipartisan legislation earlier this year, got wrapped into a larger bill, signed into law by the president that levels the playing field and stops china's cheating. that is the real threat to our paper industry. senator kohl and i met with lisa jackson and urged for more time. i hear from my opponent about his time in the 1980's and the

governor's mansion, but for the last seven years he has been a partner at one of the most part -- powerful lobbying firms and washington. >> i think we can continue this conversation in our next segment. as we start -- said at the start, during parts of the debate, the candidates press each other on these issues. meanwhile, we step out of the way. >> we will sit on our hands. the idea is to get the candidates to be more interactive. these on moderated segments run six minutes. we are not kidding -- charles and i are not involved. we turn them loose on this question on how to grow the economy and jobs. there is no direction on who speaks first or less. we will not run interference. the floor is yours. >> wisconsin is a state that

makes things -- ships, paper, tools engines. and manufacturing has taken a hit in recent years. it is why i championed bipartisan legislation are referred to earlier, to level the playing field, to crack down on china's cheating, whereby they subsidize the paper industry to the tune of billions of dollars. but that is not enough. we have seen too many of our jobs out sourced. we have to get rid of the perverse incentives in our tax code that leads folks to bring jobs overseas. my opponent not only refuses to repeal those but has a huge addition to that in his proposal that i have heard him talking about throughout this campaign. lastly, we in manufacturing need to promote by america policies. when we are securing our homeland security, and securing our defense, we ought to be

using u.s. tax dollars for u.s. jobs. it is something i have been pushing but we have more to do. that is just the manufacturing economy. we also need to protect the very investments that we need to grow. that is education, innovation, that's infrastructure. and unfortunately, the paul ryan plan that tommy thompson has campaigned on throughout this campaign is one that would give an of enormous tax break to the very wealthy, pay for it by increasing middle class taxes, and cut the their investments we are talking about in order to grow our economy -- investments like education, infrastructure, and research and innovation. >> thank you. i cut taxes 91 times when i was governor. she has voted for 155 tax

increases. i cut regulations. she went to bat for epa is the paper industry. the paper industry is going to lose 7500 jobs because my opponent did not have the courage to stand up against epa. i can assure you that will not happen. birthrate, we have a chance to build a pipeline -- number 3, we have a chance to build a pipeline from canada. 20,000 jobs could be created. the pipeline from brown. my opponent is against the pipeline. i do not know why. possibly hundreds of thousands of jobs. we can rule oil and bring it down and become energy independent. my opponent is opposed to that. my opponent is on the extreme

side of the democratic party. she talks about one bipartisan bill, but the truth of the matter is, she voted 98% of the time with her political party. she did not carry packs. this is the only example. -- she did not cherry pick. she did not do anything for 14 years. her 14 years in congress has been about pasing three bills. one bill changing the post office in madison's name. that's nice but it does not create any jobs. the truth of the matter is -- i cut taxes. i cut regulation. she increases regulation. i create jobs. she drives jobs out of the state. >> i want to reflect what again that tommy thompson talks a lot

about his time in the 1980's and 1990's when he was governor of the state. but the fact remains that for the last seven years he has been a partner at a powerhouse lobbying firm in washington d.c., representing interest that have tried to write their own rules. i know we will be talking shortly about issues like the deficit and taxes, where this comes into play, but outsourcing is one of the key concerns in growing jobs in our economy. and his firm has represented companies from china as well as out sorcereurcers. he refuses to bear down on the perverse tax incentives that lead, incentivize people to bring jobs overseas. i want to once again press down on this. he said a number of things that are untrue. with regard to the epa and the

regulation that he keeps referring to, senator kohl and i conducted a meeting with the administrator of epa on behalf of our paper industry just a couple of months ago because this role was being announced and we were concerned it was not going to be fair to wisconsin paper manufacturers and we are pressing for changes it just so we can protect our air and water, which paper workers, by the way, cherished as much as you and i do -- >> you can talk all night and you can talk on truth. the resolution was in front of congress. it was in congress to postpone the epa to keep the jobs in wisconsin. you voted against it. you talk about taxes. i was in wisconsin creating jobs . i was an individual to help create jobs.

>> we are going to move on. we appreciate that. we are moving to another issue that separates a voter and candidates alike. as we traveled the state, we discovered that the future of health care and medicare was at the forefront of their minds. >> healthcare is the most important issue for me. i work in health care. everyone should have access to health care regardless of income. >> care seems to matter to us the most, my husband and myself because he has health problems. >> i hear of so many people that are falling through the cracks, especially the elderly who cannot afford their medicine. >> medicare-medicaid need to be addressed. you have a baby boom coming. you will have enormous health care costs and needs. >> this is a question is specific to each candidate. we have heard the campaign commercials that feature both of you making statements about health care. governor thompson, you are

quoted as saying, "who better than me to come up with programs to do away with medicare and medicaid?" congresswoman baldwin, you said, "i was for government takeover of medicine." what did you mean by that? >> i have received more letters on the issue of health care than any other from people who were battling insurance companies abuses, being cut off after one chemotherapy treatment, cutting the second one on the credit card, the third on a home-equity loan and many going bankrupt. i heard from parents unable to get children with pre-existing health conditions any coverage at all. and these abuses and practices and needed to be reined in. frankly, they were with the affordable care act to a great extent. so specifically, there is a role

for the federal government. i find that your clip your show before asking the question talked about quote health care in general and medicare specifically. medicare is a program run by the government. i was raised by my grandparents. i got to see at an early age the difference that medicare and social security, but particularly medicare, made in our families economic security. it is one that -- it is a program that is not just a program but a promise and one that i've got to keep. we need to strengthen and extend the solvency of medicare, not voucherize or do away with as tommy thompson said. >> what did you mean when you were asked, who better to do away with medicaid and medicare? >> what i meant is very simple. i was able to reform welfare.

became a model for the country. my opponent voted against it. who better than somebody like me to be able to preserve, protect, and improve medicare? my opponent has been in congress for 14 years, has not lifted a finger, put in a proposal to save medicare. medicare is going broke by 2024, bankrupt. i want to save it. i want to make sure the seniors in america and wisconsin especially are protected. able to have medicare. and i also want young people to be able to have medicare when they reach 65. if you do nothing, it goes bankrupt in the year 2024. that is the answer my opponent has. i want to be able to come up with a system that protects medicare for all seniors and all those over the age of 50 in the year 2020 are going to have the

current medicare. but those 50 and under in the year 2020 are going to have a choice, not a voucher. that was yesterday's news with somebody else melse me. my program would allow you to have an opportunity to choose medicare if you want to or the federal employee health benefit program, same insurance that the congressmen and senators and the president of the united andhave. >> again, we get to go into a 6 minute on moderated in our next segment. again, we will not be taking part in this. >> since she started last time and took up 4/5 of the time, i think i will answer. >> go ahead. >> she talks about national health care. she expects you and america to allow the federal government to direct your hospital, your doctor, your pharmacy. she does not believe that obama-

care went far enough. she has said that many times. she was the federal government, ladies and gentlemen, to run your health care program. now, i don't think anybody in america would like to see us take the same kind of program that canada has and run it. i'm opposed to that because it would be trillions of dollars. and i know that does not bother her because while she has been in congress, the debt has gone from $6 trillion to $16 trillion. i believe sincerely, ladies and gentleman, a health care system where you, the individual, have the opportunity to pick your doctor, your hospital, to be able to determine exactly what you want in your health insurance, to be able to put that out for a bid and allow insurance companies to bid on tit. to put individuals in a position

where they can take care of themselves. 93% of the cost of health care goes to get you well after you get sick. only 7% is used to keep you well in the first place. that is a mistake. let's change it and keep people healthier. when i was governor, i started the best health care program in the country. to this day, i started seniorcare, which is the best elderly program for seniors and america. democrats supported me. my point was opposed to it. >> that is not true. it is about time for me to jump in on this. i like mcallum a started that. we start with the record on medicare. when tommy thompson left wisconsin in 2001 to join the

bush to ministration, he ran medicare. you could say he ran it into the ground. when he came, medicare -- when he came to the administration, medicare was approaching bankruptcy in the year 2029. when he left, it was 2020, nine years closer to bankruptcy. that is his record as secretary under george w. bush. let's talk a little bit about that. i believe strongly that seniors need access to affordable prescription drugs. part of the affordability is making sure that medicare can someday negotiate with those drug companies for better prices. the v.a. gets discounts of 40% to 60% over what our seniors get. they should for our veterans, but we should be doing that for our seniors. under his watch, it was made illegal for the federal government, for medicare to negotiate with the drug companies for lower prices for our seniors. the bill was not paid for.

if you look from today, 10 years forward, it is going to add $1 trillion to our national debts. i believe you pay for things. i support the policy of having seniors have access to affordable drugs, but you have to pay for it. that is one of the reasons why we are in the mess we are in. all on larger issues of health care, i supported the affordable care act. >> you can keep talking but why don't you tell the truth? >> i am telling the truth. >> the truth is that medicare under part d, which you voted against, at 90% of seniors support. you also have to realize that the bill you are talking about is introduced by bill clinton, who is a democrat. it was put in by tom daschle. mr. gebhart put it in.

you had your time. let me speak. only then, it was passed in part d on a bipartisan basis. i am not in congress. you are. you voted against part d. >> you are the mess -- mastermind of medicaid part b but you have nothing to do with that? >> it was tommy thompson that passed part b that allow you to do that. it was tammy baldwin who voted against it. >> the sale and point here, -- nt, aslient poitnbt , secretary under bush medicare moved in nine years closer to bankruptcy. it was an important program but it was not paid for. it costs us $700 billion and

$800 billion over 10 years. we did not change one guaranteed benefit in medicare. we strengthen them. >> used all $716 billion out of medicare -- you stole $716 billion out of medicare. >> the aarp says your allegation is simply not true. >> you took it for obama-care. who else he would like to see more money taken out of medicare to fund obama-care? i do not know if anybody does. >> you are going to have 30 seconds for follow up and respond. you talked about the sweetheart deal with medicare part d. under the affordable health care act there was talk among democrats, let's get rid of this. we do not like it. had an opportunity when the democrats controlled the house and senate to say, let's get rid of it. why did that not happen?

>> i would -- i regret it did not happen. i have introduced legislation to get rid of the sweetheart deal. i started working on this issue when i first came to congress to try to, even before there was a medicare part d, i joined in legislation to allow medicare to bargain with the to companies. this is something i will not relent on. on the affordable care act, we move forward, make it work for the american people and fix what is broken. that is one of the things i pledge to work to fix. >> you call yourself the architect of medicare part d. for theidn't you push government to negotiate with drug companies? >> it was not my responsibility. we put in the proposal without that in there, then senator bachus and bill thomas put that language in. it was first introduced by the

democrats in the 1999 congressional session. they passed it. i don't vote in congress. i am a secretary. i administer the programs that congress passes. i do not vote on it, i do not write it or introduce it. >> thank you. before we return to more to win it, i want to remind you that you can join in online by going to wisconsinvote.org. now, another question for the candidates, this time in the issue of taxes and spending. in national debates have brought the middle class front and center. each of you take a position on how to tax individuals entry corporate tax and as the polls. the question is -- how specifically does your platform protect the middle class? >> first off, i cut taxes 91 times. my opponent voted for 155 tax

increases. during the discussion on affordable care, there are 21 tax increases in the affordable care act. most of those individuals are going to hit the middle class. there is a proposal in there that you are going to get taxed on your health insurance proposal. 87% of the responsibility for $47 billion is going to rest strictly on the middle class, the lower income class. i do not think that is right. my opponent ordered for every single one of those 21 taxes, taxing the middle class of america. take a look at my schedule. what i was governor, i cut income taxes three times. i cut property taxes by over $1 billion, not once but twice. my opponent was in the assembly at that time. most of the democrats voted with me, congresswoman balwin voted

against it. property tax is a huge tax on middle class. she voted against it. my -- every chance my opponent gets to vote for a tax increase, she will vote for it. 155 tax increases, 21 in obama- care. most of those impact adversely on the middle class. >> common baldwin. >> on the issue of taxes, there is no stronger contrast between myself and my opponent. i introduced the warren buffett role to address the fact that people making over $1 million a year were too often paying at a lower tax rates, like our nominee on the republican ticket, romney, paying a lower rate than hard-working families like nurses and construction workers. tommy thompson has embraced and campaigned for many months on

the ryan plan, which according to the tax policy center, increases the tax cuts for our very wealthiest by $265,000 on average for millionaires like himself. middle-class taxes. recently. >> that is a falsehood. >> is is not the exchange time. i support a middle-class and small business tax cuts, but the program i told you about my opponent supports, the ryan pl an, raises taxes on middle-class families who buy roughly $1,300. lastly, i talked already about the perverse incentives in our tax code that prompt companies to bring jobs overseas. i want to bring those to an end. my opponent wants to double down. >> we now move into the 6 minute

on moderated section. >> feel free to talk to each other. >> you are absolutely wrong. i have a tax bill that is different than paul ryan's. the truth of the matter is, my bill does not reduce taxes on the wealthy at all. my bill allows for individuals to make a choice whether or not you want a flat tax. you put down your gross income. you can do it in half time between the green bay packers and chicago bears. put in the percentage. you cannot scam the system, but you have enough time left over to go get a glass of beer out of the refrigerator. or you want to do of the deductions? fine. you have a choice. no changes whatsoever. you make a determination. she keeps throwing out that i'm for the millionaires. i have no tax whatsoever to lower that.

she's making the stuff of whole cloth. >> let me b specifice, at the republican state convention, you said, i am going to be the 51st senator to pass the ryan budget. the days before your primary, you ran an ad on the radio saying i will be the 51st senate vote to pass the ryan vote. cannot say, i have nothing to do tothe ryan budget which gives tax breaks to millionaires like yourself an average of $265,000 and to pay for it, raises middle-class taxes. this is the joint economic committee and the tax policy center. let's move on. >> let's not. you take up the time. the truth of the matter is, i have had my tax plan up on my web page since i started. it was not the ryan plan. it is the tommy thompson.

you might even like it. no, you wouldn't, because it does not raise taxes. you only want to raise taxes. by lower taxes. i do not raise them. in regards to the warren buffett wrorule. the buffett rule would raise enough money to run the government for 11 hours. it would cost 75,000 jobs. -- 750,000 jobs. i would say that is a pretty expensive tax. >> the issue is the fairness in the tax code. it is why introduced the buffett rule. it is wrong that people who make over $1 million a year who should not pay at the same tax rate is hard-working middle- class families. the corporate tax size is i rigged.

there are a couple problems and play. one is that too many of congress and my opponent is included in this have taken a pledge to washington d.c. lobbyist by the name of grover norquist whereby they have sworn that they will not ever ask those with the most privileged to do more, to do their fair share. you signed the pledge. >> that is a falsehood. and he signed the progressive tax bill. here is somebody that teamed up with the most liberal, far reaching, far out, taxiest people in congress. she introduced a budget, ladies and gentlemen, that would increase taxes by 3.9 trillion dollars -- $3.90 trillion. >> which is less than the ryan

budget. >> and obama says, that will raise taxes on the middle class. nancy pelosi, who has to turn left to talk to my opponent because she is so extreme, she said, we cannot do that. you, my opponent can only see one things -- raise taxes, increased spending. that has been her mantra ever since she has been in congress. >> a couple of things. first of all, i do believe, given the challenges facing our nation, that for everyone to have a fair shot, everyone does have to do -- >> you agreed $3.90 trillion increase in taxes is something that we need? >> the romney plan is $5 trillion? >> over 10 years. >> correct current >> that was one year. >> it was not. that is ridiculous. let's move on. why is the system rigged?

we read stories of the fortune 500 companies, some of the most profitable corporations of our time paying zero or next to zero in taxes. why is it rigged? because the wealthy have a legion of lobbyists putting in special tax breaks. we know our tax code is loaded with them. [both talking at once] >> you have been in congress for 14 years, you have not closed one loophole. all you do now because you are running for the senate -- >> have worked to expand the child tax credit. >> all of these corporations that you talk about the you have never put in any legislation whatsoever. you just have not. now you want to come out and say corporations are bad. therefore, we have to close loopholes. i was not in congress.

you are. i was in wisconsin creating jobs, something you probably do not understand. >> it looks like you're getting comfortable with the on moderated -- unmoderated area. [laughter] if it becomes clear that iran has nuclear availability, under what circumstances, if any, would you support putting u.s. soldiers on the ground in iran? in this question first goes to the congresswoman. >> thank you. the ambitions of iran to gain the capacity to build a nuclear weapon is an enormous threat to our world, to our country, to the region and is certainly to our ally israel. in fact to them, it is an existential threat. and this is a threat that i take enormously seriously. and we cannot let iran become

capable of making a nuclear weapon. it's why i believe that the president, all options on the table approach is the right approach. we have looked at it carefully over the years of conditions have changed. and dealt cooperative way and in high collaboration with senior israeli intelligence and military officials and u.s. intelligence and military officials. i believe right now we are at a point where we are in agreement that the crippling sanctions i supported are doing, are beginning to do their job. but we cannot let iran become capable of manufacturing a nuclear weapon. and so, i absolutely support israel's right to defend itself.

we leave the military option on the table. but you never go into a war without having an exit strategy and a plan for victory. >> governor thompson. >> we are in a very unsafe world today. iran is run by the ayatollah. and the prime minister by the name of ahmadinejad, who has some real mental problems. he does not believe the holocaust existed or ever happened. he believes that he can wipe out the country of israel. he believes that if he gets a nuclear bomb, he can close the strait of hormuz. closing the strait of hormuz would close down all oil production coming into the world. we would have an economic disaster i believe without a doubt that more severe sanctions we can have, the better off we are. my opponent voted against sanctions in 2001, 2006, 2009,

2010 and received $60,000 from an organization that supports iran. i cannot believe anybody would take money from an organization supporting that madman in iran and takes $60,000 for her campaign. that is why she was against the sanctions. because she is running for the senate now, she believes that she would now have to vote for sanctions, which she did for the first time this year. i think it is because she got a belief that she is running for the senate, she had better do that. but i also believe we can never allow iran, ladies and gentlemen, to have a nuclear bomb. >> it looks like you are ready to jump in. go for it. >> first of all, i have voted for sanctions starting when i first came to the united states congress on iran.

you have your facts wrong. i did, indeed, on two occasions -- >> four. >> you are incorrect. believed that there was a prospect in iran for regime change from within. many of those who look at the region carefully saw that there were hundreds of thousands of pro-democracy protesters who took to the streets and stood up to a ahmadinejad and the ayatollah khomeini. and i felt that very important that we send a message to those people that we wanted them to succeed in regime change from within, especially when we are talking about stakes as high as sending wisconsin young men and women into harm's way, i would sure rather see that regime change happen from with in.

you have probably read the same histories i have. they were brutally beaten back by the iranian government. i think we missed an opportunity for regime change there. it so we had to go back to the tactics of crippling sanctions, crippling sanctions. that is where we are right now. i want to add one thing. i was so disturbed after having heard some of your rhetoric around my position on iran to have read a report hours before taking this stage that you have tens of thousands of dollars in investments in companies that do business with iran, including a company that teams up with iran doing uranium mining in africa. i find that shopping. -- shocking. if you want to be tough on iran,

we have to isolate iran. we have to make sure that companies do not do business, to make sure that they are isolated in the world stage. that is one of the ways that we are going to be successful i still hope without war but with tough sanctions. >> iran is building a nuclear capability. 175 feet in the ground. you would not be building a peaceful, nuclear energy plants 175 feet in the ground. it is only a matter of time they get the nuclear bomb. we have to do everything we possibly can, ladies and gentlemen, to stop iran. my opponent, four different times, she mentions the fact -- it would of been nice if she did th she dide unrest when the -- did something about the unrest

when the people were crying out for help. she did nothing. but he did send a letter to the palestinians when the israelis put up a blockade supporting the palestinians against the israelis. she received a $60,000 in campaign funds, $60,000, ladies and on and, for a campaign from a company that believes and supports no sanctions in iran. >> who are you talking about? >> i heard about this stock. let me finish. you want to interrupt me, joe biden, give me a chance. [crowd boos] >> the other thing is, ladies and gentlemen, if she is talking about stock. i did not know about the fact that my stockbroker had purchased two shares, tw companyo stocks. i sold it today. i do not. i found out today and i sold it today. i do not tolerate, i do not

agree with anybody doing business with iran, nonoe whatsoever. i think you should turn back the $60,000 you got from that company that supports no sanctions for iran. >> first of all, companies cannot give campaign donations. and i have never taken a campaign donation from a corporation or company. you know it is individuals. maybe there is a super pac out there that i do not know about that is supporting you. just to say there is a company. you know you have misspoken. also, you know enough about campaign finance laws to know that people or companies cannot give and that sort of quantity of money. whatever you are saying, i have no idea what you are talking about but it is ridiculous. back to the issue at hand. >> are you saying you did not receive any money from the council for a living earth?

>> council for a living earth? >> i am not familiar. >> they have been supporting you for 10 years. it was on the front page of the milwaukee journal this morning. >> i will have to look at that. i have never heard of the council for a living earth. but back to the security questions that are before us. the preamble to the constitution which should be the guiding document for all of us, talks about providing for the common defense and the general welfare. there is no for it -- no responsibility that i take more seriously than trying to do everything we can to keep america safe. when i saw your shoot from the hip, think later approach, and not learning from the mistakes that were made in the past, it troubles me. >> i did want to ask a follow-up on a slightly different topic

but related to foreign policy. i will go first to you, governor thompson. president barack obama has been recently described as the only nobel peace prize winner with a kill list. what is your position on unmanne d drones, and the target killing of terrorist? >> i think unmanned drones are something that is absolutely necessary. we have to be careful that we do not kill absolute -- innocent bystanders. drones are used to take out many individuals from terrorist organizations. they have been very successful in pakistan and in afghanistan and in libya. but the truth of the matter is, we have to have all our assets available. these individuals are terrorists. >> 30 seconds. >> congresswoman, what is your position on these unmanned

drones? >> first, on the technology, i would say that drones are huge and important advance and, especially when you compare to the investment in cold war technology. this is important for surveillance and intelligence- gathering. and, as you note, they are used for strikes. i think with this new technology, we have to review the rules of engagement. and we have not yet with this new technology. >> thank you for obliging me. so far we have worked three jobs, health care, and middle east policy. if there is to be any real movement in congress in these areas, there needs to be some form of bipartisanship in congress, something that according to many voters is a tall order. >> people on both ends of the issue, republicans, democrats,

conservatives, liberals, need to come together, stop fighting. but i do not believe that either party has helped in recent years. i would like to see whoever is elected make some effort to improve relations between members of the two parties. >> they need to compromise. it is time we find some compromise. you're not. to get anything done if we keep fighting. >> with that, we wonder from each candidate, can you name and describe one policy decision on the part of your challenger that you would support? we go first to you, governor thompson, but we just have one minute. >> pretty hard but i would certification liz support anything that we could do on a bipartisan basis -- i would certainly support anything we could do on a bipartisan basis to cut back on spending. if there is anything that we can

do to hold down on spending, we have to do it. we have to learn to live within our means. we have learned that in tommy wisconsin. i did it as governor. if there is some way that the congresswoman could show me a proposal that would save money at the federal government, i would support her. i have not seen any yet, but i hope someday i will be able to do that. >>, one congresswoman? >> let me start by saying that there are many things upon which tommy thompson and i agree. it may be surprised to those in the room, we have worked closely over my years in the state legislature and when he was secretary. with regard to this campaign, i believe he supports the dream act. i do, too. i believe i heard him at the last debate say that he believes we should bring our troops back from afghanistan as quickly as possible. if that is what i heard, i am in

strenuous agreement with him on that. we talked about senior care briefly early. i am a huge proponents of senior care and have fought both when he was bush's health secretary and after he left to make sure that wisconsin would be able to keep the way for they need in order to keep that operating. -- keep the waiver they need. we have worked together. that is why i will be successful because i can see the common ground and i have always reached out for it. >> are done with the unmoderated part. we are going to move to the topic of education. the u.s. is falling behind the world when it comes to math and science competency. in the midst of talking about cutting budgets and eliminating programs, what is the best prescription for making u.s. students math and science

literate? >> well, i love this question. i was a math major in college, a double major in mathematics and political science. i used to say and there -- say that and there would be an audible gasp in the room. i believe very strongly that the key to economic growth in this country, as i said earlier and we talked about jobs, are investments in education and innovation and research. we make things in this state. we have seen net declined. we need to start doing that again, and that means we need engineers and scientists and other innovators and

entrepreneurs. i agree with the president that we need to make an emphasis -- 100,000 youths across american school. >> education is really basic. we have to do everything we possibly can to improve the education quality, the graduates, college graduates and vocational training in america. when i was governor, i was able to pick up 2/3 of the cost of education, the biggest increase ever so that local property tax payers could have a break and we could put more money into schools. i increased the money for the university of wisconsin. i set up vocational programs for individuals that are not going to university, for skills training, so that individuals can become a plumber, whatever the case may be. because that is the jobs out there that are going because we do not have the individuals that are skilled to do it.

math and science is absolutely important and we have to put the dollars, encourage individuals to go into those programs, because that is our future, ladies and gentlemen. that is what i am dedicated to do. pell grants is one way we can do that. >> it is time for closing statements. we flipped a coin to determine the order. congresswoman baldwin chose to go last. >> thank you very much. thank you for the audience. it has been a spirited debate. our country has some serious problems. we are $16 trillion in debt, $10 trillion of that is while my opponent has been in congress. we are over the gross national product, which means that we are placed in a category with other countries like spain, like

greece. i want to change that. i am running, ladies and gentlemen, because i have three great children and grandchildren. i am running because of them, but more importantly your children and grandchildren. we have always promised children and grandchildren and america that they will inherit a country that a stronger and fairer and safer. we can no longer say that. a baby born right now a today is $51,000 in debt. so the debt was accumulated in the last 10 years. in the last four years, that has gone up by $5.50 trillion the people in congress have not even passed a budget in 3.5 years. that is malfeasance in office. the spending goes up, the taxes go up, and our country is facing a fiscal cliff. if we do not do something about it, ladies and ottoman, we are headed for a fiscal abyss.

who is the best person to do it, so when you cut taxes 91 times. or someone who raised taxes 155 times. someone who balance the budget 14 years ago with democrats? or somebody who has not passed any budget in 3.5 years? i am looking out, ladies and and and, for the future of our great country. -- i am looking out, ladies and gentlemen, for the future. we can balance the budget, cutting jobs back for 23 million americans. just like they did when i was governor of the state of wisconsin. >> thank you. i want to start by thanking you, tommy, for joining me on the stage and also to our host and moderators, wisconsin public television, the audience, and those watching on television. it has been a privilege to be engaged in his u.s. senate

campaign. as i traveled the state, i have had an opportunity to listen. people open up about their struggles. they are working hard, playing by the rules, trying to get ahead, but to many of them are just getting by. listen to their frustrations with the disconnect that they see between the debates that are going on in washington d.c., in the tea party-controlled house of representatives, the disconnect between those debates and their lives. they want -- what they want is somebody that will fight for them. not for wall street and the big banks, not for the big health insurance companies or the big drug companies or the tea party, somebody that will go and fight for them. that is what i have always done and pledged to do as your u.s. senator. there is a clear contrast in

this race. tommy likes to talk a lot about what he did as governor and the 1980's and 1990's. but the fact remains that he has spent his last seven years as a partner at a big, powerful washington lobbying firm that lobbies on behalf of those very same special interests that i have spent my career standing up against. there are differences on taxes, on how we would attack the deficit, on how to grow the economy. it all gets down to whose side are you on? the people or the powerful? i ask you for your vote on november 6 and encourage everyone to participate in this election. >> we thank you, both candidate s, for joining us. that is of our debate. good night. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] myi've made mistakes in

personal finances. i am not perfect, but i made those mistakes and i fixed them. the fact is that everybody that looked into these allegations have said they are completely false. every independent financial expert. and what makes a lot of these attack ads that we have seen from linda mcmahon especially troubling is the fact that during the exact same time, linda mcmahon still had not paid back the $1 million she owed her creditors from of bankruptcy 36 years ago. >> i agree that we need to talk about the issues in this state. an occasional financial slip is not what we are talking about here. absolutely need to be honest with the people of connecticut. you need to be honest about your special interest loan, and about your attendance in washington. those are issues that are important to the people of

connecticut because they want to know, can they trust the congress meant that they art -- or the senator they are sending to washington to represent them? i've had a career of creating jobs that contribute to the economy of connecticut. >> all of this month, follow the key house, senate, and governor races on c-span, c-span radio and at c-span.org/campaign2012. >> our campaign 2012 coverage continues tomorrow with the senate debate from texas between ted cruz and paul sadler at *;08:00. on monday night, the final presidential debate. our coverage begins at 7:00 p.m., the debate at 9:00 p.m., and then your phone calls cand tweets. former president bill clinton

was at a get-out-the-vote rally in parma, ohio, today. here are a couple of minutes of what he had to say. >> they were talking about arithmetic. but i listened very carefully to the vice-presidential debate and to the second presidential debate. and mr. romney says, i'm going to do all this. i am going to cut taxes for the middle class. i am not interested and rich people. they will pay the same percentage of tax they pay now. he thinks we're dumb. if you cut everybody else's taxes and people in my income group pay the same percentage, it means we get a tax cut, too. right? we have to. you cut everybody else's taxes. my percentage should go up if you freeze my taxes. so in the debate, without saying

so, -- he got caught with the facts. he hates to get caught in where are your numbers? the president has given you a budget and said you will not like all of it. it adds $2.50 of spending cuts for every dollar of revenue, but we have to do something of the about revenue. here are my numbers. where are your numbers? this guy ran bain capital and is a business guy, and he is hiding his budget? that ought to tell you something. well, he is hiding his taxes, too, but he is hiding his taxes in the years when he turned ordinary income. he is given the two years when he was just running for president. and, he is hiding whether he would have signed the lily ledbetter act. he does not want you to think about him. he wanted to think the economy is terrible, i am a jobs guy.

as president obama said, if i brought you a deal, fun my new business, i will give you the budget in the future, you would not give me one red cent, and we should not give him one vote on that. [applause] >> you can see all of bill clinton's remarks and bruce springsteen's performance at the rally. after our live coverage of the al smith dinner. it is a tradition to invite presidential candidates in election years. journalists and election figures in off years. we spoke to a professor about the origins of the dinner. >> what is the dinner and how

did it come about. >> candidates show up every four years, democrats and republicans. it is a memorial dinner for al smith. in general, it is probably his most lasting public thing where his name gets out. it is held every year. not just four years. it is really a memorial dinner, and charity dinner. people get together and try to assess the legacy of the house meth. >> they show up to gather -- to

gather most times. they show up, both the democrat and republican nominees show up together. past al smith dinners. >> might i ask if monsignor clark might come up here because either the president of the united states or i am without a seat and i have no intension of standing. >> i must say traveled the banquet circuit for many years and never quite understood the logistics of dinners like this and how the absence of one individual could cause three of us to not have seats. >> mr. vice president, i'm glad to see you here tonight. you said many, many times in this campaign that you want to give america back to the little mr. vice president, i am that man. [laughter] >> as i looked out at all the white ties and tails this evening, i realized i haven't seen so many people so well dressed since i went to a come as you are party in kennebunkport. >> we just had really good news out of yugoslavia. especially pleased that mr.

milosevic has stepped down. that's one less polysyllabic name for me to remember. [laughter] [applause] you know what this world really needs? it really needs more world leaders named al smith. [laughter] >> it is an honor to share the dais with the descendants of the great al smith. al, your great, great grand father was my favorite kind of governor. the kind who ran for president and lost. [laughter] >> we are live at the al smith dinner in new york city. it is hosted by the catholics of new york. some comic relief every four years at the end of the

political campaign. the standup routine for the presidential candidates. they just finished eating dinner. al smith iv is making introductions. >> a lot of people criticized the mayor's decision to ban drinks. this is an issue of deep personal suggestion -- significance. a couple of years ago, the mayor almost drowned in a big gulp. [laughter] how it it -- how is it going over there? last but not least, we have governor romney and president obama. [applause] dashing, ork soand

as you call it, as your governor, business casual. -- as you call it, governor, business casual. [laughter] my great-grandfather got into politics for very simple reasons. he liked people. rich, poor, a democrat, republican. al smith was a friend to all. [applause] throughout his public life, he was a champion of the worker, an advocate for the needy. and a plain-spoken voice.

as you all know, my great- grandfather was the first catholic nominee for president. and mitt romney, the first mormon nominated for president. [applause] by great-grandfather and mitt romney have other things in common. for example, they both campaign for governor. as democrats. [laughter] their biggest adversaries were successful businessman. for my great-grandfather, it was herbert hoover. for mitt romney, it was mitt romney.

[laughter] it is no secret that governor romney is a very wealthy man. he is also a very generous man. every year, he gives at least 10% of his income to charity. [applause] not so fast. [laughter] the charity is the federal government. [laughter] seriously, i have seen governor romney's de generosity to his church. i must confess. we invited him here to convert. [laughter] [applause]

really, governor, your father was from mexico and you have five kids. are you sure you are not catholic? [applause] mr. president, you are not getting a free pass tonight. we arcs -- we are excited to have you here tonight. almost as excited as we were in 2008. although the catholic church does so president obama a. debt of gratitude. jesus taught us if it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of debt -- of heaven.

say what you will about the economy. mr. president, it will be a lot easier for a lot more people to get into heaven. [applause] we recognize you have some challenges this year. it is never could when your opponent has produced more sums then you have jobs. -- than you haev jobs. -- have jobs. i am pretty sure that number is accurate. paul ryan gave it to me. he is such an effective attack dog, i am worried governor romney might strap him on the roof of a car. of course, president obama wishes he could put joe biden on a car, too.

.he amtrak quiet carbo [laughter] all kidding aside, one way both got us a ride are makig t -- both are making this a historic election is to have a roman catholic on both sides of the ballot. that is worth applauding. [applause] ladies and gentlemen, we get to hear from a man. i am pleased to present the 2012 republican nominee for president, governor mitt romney. [applause]

>> thank you. thank you so much. your eminence, cardinal, mr. president, governor, mayor bloomberg, senator, al and ann smith, thank you for your invitation and your warm welcome. i appreciate your friendship very much. thank you. [applause] al, you are right. a campaign can require a lot of wardrobe changes. cuisines in the morning, suits for a lunch fund raiser, a sport coat for dinner. it is nice to finally relax and around thewe waear

house. [applause] i am glad to join in this tradition. i am pleased the president is here carry we were chatting this evening -- here. we were chatting this evening. it was like tuesday night never happened. i was hoping the president would bring joe biden along this evening because he will laugh at anything. [applause] this is a not -- not a night for serious politics.

it's nice to see president obama and the cardinal despite their differences. i am sure the cardinal has no feelings -- hard feelings and we will get an indication of that to see if the president's wine will try to water. or if my water turns into a wind. -- wine. i am pleased to see governor, already being talked about kids to be high office. he may be getting ahead of himself. the man has put in one term as a governor, he has a father who was a governor, and he thinks that was enough to run for president. [laughter] [applause] we are down to the final months of the president's term. [laughter] [applause]

as president obama surveys the waldorf banquet room " with everybody in white ties, you have to wonder what he is thinking. so little time, so much to redistribute. [applause] do not be surprised if the president mentions the monthly jobs support where there was a slight improvement in the numbers. he knows how to seize the moment. the already has a compelling new campaign slogan. you are better off now than you were four weeks ago. [applause] with or without all the dignitaries that are here, the al smith had dinner lives up to its billing. usually when i get invited to dinners like this, i am the designated driver.

[applause] your kind hospitality tonight gives me a chance to convey my deep and long held respect for the catholic church. i have special admiration for the apostle saint peter, to whom it was set up on this rock i will build my church. the story is all the more inspiring when you consider he has so many skeptics at the time who would say, if you have a church, you did not build that. [applause] only 19 days ago until the finish line. the campaign is full of surprises and the debates are exciting. we had a very fun debate the other night. candy crowley was there. people are curious how we prepare for the debates. here is what i do. first, refrained from out --

refrain from alcohol. then find a straw man, and merciless attack. big bird did not see it coming. in the spirit of sesame street, the present's remarks "meet the press" and's remarks tonight are brought to you by a letter "o" and the number $16 trillion. [applause] the campaign will be grueling, exhausting, and president obama are each lucky to have one person always in our corners, someone we can lean on, someone is a critic who is a comforting presence. i have my beautiful wife, he has bill clinton. [applause]

we got a big dose of weeks biden charm. i heard from the federal election commission. from now on, whenever he appears on tv, there is a recording of me afterwards that says, "i am mitt romney, and i approve this message." [laughter] .ules of fairness have to i never suggest the press is biased. they have their job to do and i have mine to do. my job is to lay out a positive vision for the future of the country and their job is to make sure nobody finds out about it. [applause]

let's just say some in the media have a certain way of looking at things. when i suddenly pulled ahead in the major polls, the headlines were, obama is leading from behind. [laughter] i have already seen early reports from tonight's dinner. halpine, obama and priced by catholics. romney dodges rich people. [laughter] [applause] the president has put his own stamp on relations with the church. there have been awkward moments. like when the president's hold the benediction -- " benedictus aside. he said, whatever the problem is, just claimant on john paul ii.

[applause] the president has found a way to take a sting out of the mandates for the charge. they will be in latin. we have fundamental unsound principles that guide us. he and i feel the pressures and tensions of a close contest. it would be easy to let a healthy competition give way to the personal and petty. fortunately, we do not carry the burden of disliking each other. the president has some very fine and gracious moments. our 44th president has many gifts and a beautiful family that would make any man proud. [applause]

in our country, you can oppose someone in politics and make a confident is a competent case against their politics without any ill will. that is how it is for me. there is more to life and politics. you show this in the work you do. the work goes on day in and day out in this organization. you answer with calmed, and willing hearts. in service for poor and care for ick.si to help an innocent child who is going to be born. [applause] i do not presume to have all of your support. on a night like this, i will not

ask for it. you can be certain that in the great causes of compassion that you come together to embrace, that i stand proudly with you as an ally and friend. god bless you all and god plus the united states of america. thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much. ladies and gentlemen, there is

only one way to introduce our next speaker. the president of united states of america, barack obama. [applause] >> thank you. thank you. thank you so much. thank you. everyone please take a seat or clint eastwood would yell at them. [laughter] thank you to al, your eminence, governor, senator, mayor bloomberg, all the

distinguished guest hes here. in less than three weeks, voters will decide this incredibly important election. it begs the question, what are we doing here? [laughter] new yorkers also have a big choice to make. you have to decide which one of us you want holding up traffic for the next four years. [laughter] tonight, i am here with a man whose father was a popular governor who could very well be president someday. i am hoping it is andrew cuomo. [applause] this is the third time governor romney and i have met recently. as some of you have noticed, i

have a lot more energy in our second ave. i felt well rested after a nice long that i had during the first debate. -- long nap i had during the first debate. [laughter] [applause] it turns out millions of americans focused on the second debate, who did not focus on the first debate. i happen to be one of them. i want to apologize to chris matthews. four years ago, i gave him a hit to the leg. this time, i gave him a stroke. there are a lot of things i learned from that experience. for example, i learned that there are worse off -- worse things that can happen to you on your anniversary than forgetting to buy a gift.

when or lose, this is my last political campaign. i am trying to drink it all in. unfortunately, mayor bloomberg will only let me have 16 ounces. [laughter] that is okay. i am still having -- making the most of my time. i went shopping in the stores in midtown. i understand governor romney went shopping for some stores in midtown. [laughter] [applause] it brought back great memories. some of you know i went to school here in new york. i had a wonderful experience here. [applause] i used to love wafting through central park -- walking through central park, going to yankee stadium. you really did not build that.

i hope everybody is aware of that. [applause] it has been four years since i was last at the al smith dinner. things have changed. i have heard people say i am not as young as i used to be. where is that golden smile? where is that kept in your step? i say, settle down, joe, i am trying to run a campaign. [applause] he does smile when he says it. tomorrow, it is back to campaigning. the cities across our great country. i hear the same thing everywhere i go. we were hoping to see michelle. i have to admit it can be a

grind. sometimes it feels like this race has drag on forever. bob ryan assured me we have only been running for two hours and 50 something minutes. [applause] the economy as on everybody's mind spirit economy i do not have a joke here. i thought it would be useful to remind everybody. we are getting to that time where folks are making up their minds. the other day, on the boubou endorsed me. that is a big relief. [laughter] tonight is not about the disagreements governor romney and i may have. it is what we have in common, beginning with our unusual names.

mitt is his middle name. i wish i could use my middle name. [applause] even though we are enjoying ourselves tonight, we are thinking ahead to our final debate on monday. i am hoping governor romney and i will have a chance to answer the question on the minds of millions of americans watching at home. is this happening again? monday's debate will be different. the topic is foreign policy. spoiler alert -- we got bin laden. [applause] world affairs are a challenge for every candidate.

some of you guys remember after my foreign trip in 2008, i was attacked class as a celebrity because i was so popular with our allies. i am impressed with how well governor romney has avoided that problem. [applause] just so everyone knows, in our third debate, we will not spend a whole lot of time interrupting each other. we will also interrupt the moderator just to mix things up. finally, let me say i have been doing some thinking. i have decided for our final debate, i have to go back to the strategy i used to compare -- prepare for the first debate. i am kidding. i want to make you sweat. [laughter] in all seriousness, i could not

be more honored to be here this evening. i am honored to be with leaders in both the private and public sectors, particularly the extraordinary work done by the catholic church. [applause] it is written structure that tribulation produces perseverance, and perseverance character, and character, hope. this country has fought through very tough years together. we have come as far as we have mainly because the perseverance and character of ordinary americans. it's as something about who we are as people combat at the middle of an election season, opposing canada to share the same stage. people from all parties come and gather. -- come together to support a

worthy cause high. i want to thank governor romney for joining me because i admire him very much as a family man and a loving father and those are two titles that will always matter more than any political ones. [applause] we may have different political perspectives. i am certain we share the hope that the next four will have the same decency and the same willingness to come together for a higher purpose that are on display this evening. may we all in the words of al smith do our full duty as citizens. god bless you, your family, and the united states of america. can you very much. -- thank you very much.

[applause] >> we come to the main event. [laughter] we turn to our host for closery remarks and benediction. ladies and gentlemen, the arch bishop of new york. [applause]

it does -- >> it does traditionally fall to the host of this evening to call it tonight. thank you everybody for your gracious company this beautiful evening. what a unique honor to welcome and thank president obama and governor and mrs. romney. [applause] our two candidates claim both of your parties, the republicans and democrats, are big, containing extraordinary perverse, even contrary an opposite groups. you two do not have anything over the catholic church. we have both biden and ryan carry [laughter] governor romney, thank you i was hoping the republican canada

might be governor christie. i would have looked a lot better sitting next to him. mr. president, i trust you will be able to report to mrs. obama that i ate my vegetables and salads. if she had been first lady when i was growing up in the '50s, i would not be in the shape i am in. as many of you may know, i just returned from rome a couple hours ago, where i am burt dissipating in the senate of distance. thanks to the jet, i will be able to return to rome after the conclusion of this evening's meal. [applause] by the way, just before i left this morning, " bennett to it -- pope benedict the 16 pulled me aside and asked me to deliver a message to both candidates. mr. president, governor romney, do you know what the holy father

asked me to tell the two of you? neither do i.. he said it in latin. [laughter] when you think about it, only this dinner could bring together two men of the same colin who disagree on almost everything, both of whom think they are the world's experts on everything, who do not usually even like being in the same room together. roger and chris matthews. it is amazing. [applause] the al smith dinner, in thanking all of you for your presence and support, might i suggest this annual dinner actually shows the united states of america and the catholic church at their best. think about it. here we are, in an atmosphere

of civility and humor, posted fittingly by a church which claims joy is the infallible sign of god's presence, men and women, young and old of every ethnic and racial background, democrats, republicans, independents, catholics, protestants, jews, latter-day saints, people of no particular creed, people of wealth, but some folks here as well who barely get by, the guests from westchester and the bronx, staten island, grateful all of us to be people of faith and will americans. loving a country which considers a religious liberty our first and most cherished freedom, convince faith is not just limited to an hour of sabbath worship, but affects everything dream.and crea [applause]

privileged this evening to be in the country to company of two honorable men, will call to the noble the location of public servants whose love for god and country is to pass -- surpassed only by the love of their own wives and children can to are as happy as i hope they are to be here this evening, probably much rather be home to be with michelle and their families. that speaks volumes. all of us recall a man of deep catholic faith and patriotism who had a tear in his irish eyes for what we would call the the world, the unemployed, uninsured, unwanted, unwed mother, the fragile unborn baby in her womb, the

undocumented, the unhoused, the unhealthy, the unfed, the under educated. government, al smith believed, should be on the side of these un's. [applause] but a government, he also believed, partnering with family, church, parish, neighborhood, organizations in the community, never intruded or opposing. when all is said and done, it is in god we trust, not in god -- not in politics. al smith, the happy warrior, and a warrior on behalf of the un's so close to jesus, women of new

york who will be declared saints. [applause] so tenderly close to a blessed mother, theresa, who reminded us all to remember the five-figure gospel. as often as you do it one of these, the five-figure gospel, the least of my brethren, you do it to me. god blast, here is my closing benediction. simple, part self -- heartfelt. god was the memory of our smith, god bless the un's, all of you, our two candidates,

america, and thank god for this great evening. good night, and god blast. -- bless. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, let's have a warm, carousing ovation for our speakers, our cardinal. [applause] >> thank you, governor. >> good to see you. >> that was great.

>> four good speeches. >> thank you. great. >> unbelievable. >> thank you very much.

>> unbelievable. it was the best. class i have to be honest with you. i love these debates. they are great. he has to come up with that this weekend. >> let's recap what we learned last night. his tax plan does not add up. his deficit reduction plan as to the deficit. everybody has heard of the new deal.

deal, the fair deal, the square deal, mitt romney is trying to sell you a sketchy deal. we are not buying it. >> watch on monday as president obama and mitt romney meet in their final debate. our debate preview starts the 7:00 p.m. eastern followed by the debate at 9:00. >> on washington journal tomorrow morning, we will focus on the presidential candidate's foreign policies with matthew lee and guy taylor. they cover the state department. jonathan turley will be in our studio will question the relevance of the of a coral colleges. and alan simpson will join us by

phone to defend it. we will look at trends in wages and benefits with willian and christopher flavelle. we will show you a part of bruce springsteen's concert. >> thank you. thank you. [applause]

>> are we going to send betty sutton back to congress? [applause] folks, we need her in congress. ohio needs her. her district needs her. america needs her. we have to have a congress that will work to keep this country moving forward, and i hope you will make sure in this new district that you get enough votes out. it is all about turnout. if you do it, she will win, and we need her. [applause] i am glad to be back. i want to thank the mayor for welcoming me, and the congressman for what he is doing for all other democrats. my friend, mervyn jones, the son of stephanie tubbs jones, one of the best friends hillary and i have ever had. county executive, thank you. i have a native of cuyahoga county working for may. i want to say thank you to her because i want you to now i am keeping my ohio ties alive and well. i've done a lot of things in my life. i wrote a book called back to work, and i counted all the things i had done to make a living. i had 20-something jobs before

i was elected president, but this is the first time in my life that i got to be a warm-up act for bruce springsteen. [applause] i am qualified, because i was "born in the usa," and unlike one of the candidates for president, i keep all of my money here. [applause] now, -- [applause] look, ohio is always a dogfight. i noticed a couple of things.

the republicans were real clever in ohio. first they passed the voter suppression stuff, the voter i.d. and everything, and then you proved that it is not that hard for the citizens of ohio to put on the ballot a referendum to reverse with the legislature does if you do not like it, which you did do. [applause] as soon as they saw that coming, you have to give them credit. they've repealed that stuff, and they burrowed get of -- getting rid of early voting but they said if local commissions want to do it, they can do it we democrats, we said sure, let everybody vote. then the republicans in this county said no, we want long

voting lines because maybe some of the democrats will go home. this was not complicated, but they lost in court. thank god somebody believes that we should not do anything to restrict the americans' right to vote. look, this election is coming down to the end. after the last debate, it is pretty straightforward. president obama says the choice is whether you what my administration to have four more years -- when i came in we were losing 800,000 jobs a month, i had to stop the slide and depression, it continued for a year, we put a floor under it, and we are building the base of prosperity. romney says we messed it up, he did not fix it, throw him out, put us back in. and when you ask any question, he says see me about that after the election you have to understand. i am a jobs guy. i am a jobs guy. i am and jobs guy. i am a jobs guy.

what about this, see me after the election? would you have signed the lily ledbetter equal pay law? no answer. he could not even say whether he would sign a law that is already on the books. why? no, what he wants to do is convince the moderate voters that he is a new man without explicitly disemboweling a single solitary commitment he made in the two years he said he was severe conservative mitt romney. now, he says i know people are upset, i know the economy is not back, and he discovered that middle-class incomes were flat and declining against inflation. anybody that has been paying

attention has known that for more than 30 years. the only time middle-class incomes rose as much as the income of the top 20% is when i was president. i know about that. [applause] so, you have a decision to make. ohio has a decision to make. so, i just want to review the bidding here. in the last 51 years, 52 years,

the democrats have had the white house 24 years. the republicans, 28 years. the economy has produced 66 million private sector jobs, not government jobs. they have actually equal bosnian government jobs. private sector jobs, the score is democrats 42, republicans 24. that is a 52-year score. now, let's look at what happened when president obama came into office. the country was reeling and everybody needed work. he said let's put america back to work. the senate republican leader said no, my number one priority is putting you out of work, mr. president, and you have to give it to them, they worked hard at that.

they worked so hard to keep the unemployment rate above 8%. they were crushed when it dropped to 7.8%. did you see that? all of the sudden, they had talked about the unemployment rate for 3.5 years as if it were scripture. it was right up there with the tablets that moses brought down from mt. sinai. [laughter] then it dropped below 8%, and they say the whole thing is rate. you can understand that.

we have all worked hard for something and just almost gotten there, and it broke our hearts. they came so close. they almost kept unemployment above 8% all the way to the election, but they failed, and i want you to know that the drop from 9.0% to 7.8% does not sound like much, but it is the biggest one-share drop in unemployment in 17 years. so, you just have to decide. [applause] isernor romney's argument fire him and put me in because we are not fixed. it is true. we are not fixed. when president obama looked into the eyes of the man who said i had so much hope four years ago and i do not now, i thought he was going to cry, because he knows it is not fixed, but the question is which path will fix? what the american people have to decide is whether they believe people like me, who are a little bit on the outside of

this, that this was the biggest economic crash since the great depression, continue for a full year after the president took the oath of office. we were going downhill. he had to stop that, put a floor under it, and then the long road back. if you do not blame president bush for the crash -- let's just say it just happened. [laughter] no, really. if you do not hold the job loss and 10th, then you cannot do what mitt romney is doing, and hold it against president obama. let's take out from september 15, 2008, through feb., 2010, when we were just really, and the president was trying to stop a depression. what happened? in the last 32 months, our economy has produced 5.3 million private-sector jobs. that is twice as many that were

produced in the seven years after the dotcom bubble burst and the crash happened under the bush administration. [applause] now, if we are plainly moving back, why in the wide world would you dump a strategy that is working for one day you already know will not work? i know the average voter in ohio has all he/she could shake -- say grace over tried to pay the bills, but there was an article by "the financial times of london," hardly an arm of the democratic party, right? if you look all over the world, america is outperforming all the other industrial economies, when little bright light that says we can get out of this. [applause]

so, i do not want you to tell any undecided voters that we think things are hunky dory. we do not. i want you to tell undecided voters that it is a long, slow climb, but we are climbing, not going in the other direction. i will give you one other example. since we started growing, the economy has added half of 1 million manufacturing jobs, growing manufacturing jobs for the first time since the 1990's. when i was president, we increase manufacturing, and for eight years we lost every single year. now we are growing again. there is no more clear example of this than what happened in

the automobile restructuring. i do not like it when it is called a bailout. it is not fair. it was not. no banks would finance this, so the government came out and help with loans and an investment in the stock of general motors and chrysler, but labor and management give up concessions and said we will work together and make this productive again. now, what happened? the first thing is all of the other car companies, all of these foreign manufacturers, the japanese and german car companies with plants in america supported this. why? they know what general motors and chrysler went down, the auto parts supplier would go down, and they would be left in the

soup. as a matter of fact, the only person that knew anything about it that did not support it was governor romney, who said we ought to let them file for bankruptcy, break the union, those hundreds of thousands of jobs, shrink the auto industry, and see what happens. barack obama said no, it is important for america to manufacture jobs -- cars. he said it is important for america to keep its auto parts supply chain. he said it is important to remember that one-in-aid jobs in the state of ohio are tied to automobiles, and he saved those jobs, 1 million of them. now, there are two and 50,000 more people working in the automobile industry than there were the day the automobile plan was signed. i will tell you something. i love ohio. it is an old school place. [applause] we like our families, we like our communities, value personal loyalty -- when you were down, you were out, and you're economy was threatened, the president had your back. you have to have his back now. [applause]

this is not complicated for me. if somebody saved my economy, i would be for it. i would not let these secret super pacs and people who want to have their special privileges and let the federal government influence be either. this is not complicated. we are not where we want to be. middle-class incomes are not yet rising, but we are gaining jobs, and the last thing we should do is return to a strategy that got us in trouble in the first place, cut taxes on upper income people and deregulate the economy. if you look at financial regulation, we have the best capitalized banks we have had in 20 years. they are beginning to load again. are there problems? yes, but they will not drive the economy off of the tracks again because of the bill the president signed that governor

romney wants to get rid of. now, let's talk about one or two issues that are also important. we have to build a modern economy. we have to create jobs that will be available in the 21st century. you do not have to walk away from the old energy economy and ohio. you do not have to say you do not care about the coal miners to embraced effected you now have more than 24,000 people working in a clean energy economy, and you want those jobs, too. if you want that to be part of your future, and obama says all of the above. he put a fortune of our money in to try to develop clean coal technology, but he wants to make wind and solar competitive, and president romney, where he elected, would repeal all of that. now, let me give you an example. most americans admire what germany has done. they are frugal, have the highest percentage of their work force in manufacturing, the best job training programs in the world -- day, on a bright, sunny

day last spring, generated 66 megawatts of electricity from the sun in a country where the sun shines on average as much as it does in london. that is the equivalent of 20 nuclear power plants. deutsche bank, and not bring peace, not the sierra club, deutsche bank, said they got one quarter of 1 million jobs out of that. our capacity is twice there's, our population is three times their -- shares. if we did what they had done, we would have 3 million jobs in this area. we cannot afford to walk away from a modern economy. obama says forge ahead, romney says get rid of it and walk

away. in iowa, republican farmers like the fact we help people build windmills. it supplements their farm income. i imagine there are some in ohio, too. on a windy day in texas, 25% of the electricity now comes from wind the bush energy department, not the obama energy department, says there is enough wind blowing from canada to elect a fight america many times over if we build a modern electrical grid. obama says press ahead. romney says walk away. you have to decide whether you think we can go -- you cannot go back to the economy we had when i was present. we have to build a new economy based on the opportunities that are available for tomorrow. [applause]

now, that brings me -- let's do this a little closer to home. i talked about a book a lot called "the new american prosperity," where a really good writer went around america and found things that were working right. he ask himself, why is san diego the human genome capital of america, no longer just the best navy town? why does orlando have 100 computer simulation companies? why does pittsburgh had a legitimate chance to become the nanotechnology center of america, and why is the skyhook community college partnership with the cleveland clinic -- cuyahoga community college partnership with the cleveland clinic have the possibility to solve the problem of what you do with people whose jobs are gone, and the answer you work on his train people to do the jobs in health care that are going to be there because of the aging of baby boomers, because of the changing of health-care delivery.

train people. [applause] that is really important. so, what does the president say? double down on the stuff it is working. invest in education and training. there are already 3.4 million jobs posted in america that are not filled because there posted in areas where people are not normally trained to do what is now open. we need to build community college that works in america, and barack obama will do it -- networks in america and barack obama will do it, and his opponent will not. he will cut spending. [applause] look at this. one of the most formidable problems the president faces for the long term, not the short term, is in the last 10 years we

dropped from second to 16th in the world in the percentage of young adults with college degrees, and we all know why, because college is going up at twice the rate of inflation, and people thought they could not bear the debt load. when the economy crashed, lots of people dropped out, even though in romans are back up now, because they could not bear the -- enrollments are back up now, because they could not bear the debt load. the most important thing president obama and the congress have done in the last four years that nearly nobody knows about -- i want you to listen to this -- reform the student loan law. [applause] here is what they did. they said look, we have this old model of doing student loans where we can pay banks and 90% guaranteed to loan money at market interest rates, and they get 90% of the money of the student default. it is a pretty not -- crazy model. the kids cannot repay them and they drop out.

we set aside a loan reserve, the school tell us who is eligible, we will loan the money direct, as interest rates will be lower, and now every single student has the option to pay the loan back as a low fixed percentage of their income for up to 20 years. [applause] now, think about what this means. this means nobody will ever have to drop out again because of the debt problem. nobody. and, it means if you get out of school and you want to go to a rural ohio and be a teacher or a firefighter, or a law- enforcement officer, where you get out of medical school with a debt of two hundred thousand dollars, the average, and you want to be a family practitioner in a small town in rural ohio or inner-city cleveland, you can do that because your repayment obligation is determined by your salary, not the other way around.

[applause] believe it or not, i cannot believe people do not know this. believe it or not, this is $60 billion cheaper over 10 years than the old system, so, what did they do with the $60 billion? they used it to guarantee increasing pell grants to keep up with inflation and nature tuition tax credits will be there for middle-class families. so, president obama's position is get it fully implemented by the end of 2014. now, 2013.

they move it up year. when is governor romney's position? repeal the law, give the money back to the banks, mixed in loans more expensive, increased the dropout rate because it will be harder to repay and more costly, and give the subsidies back to the bank. it is a clear choice. if i were a student in any college or university in america, on that alone i would say i have to reelect barack obama, president of the united states. [applause] let's talk about the health care deal. in health care, president obama took the recommendations of experts and the aarp, which is not in the habit of sticking it to seniors, otherwise they would not have many members, not to cut medicare, but to reduce the increased rate of payments over the next 10 years because they say we are doing a better job of controlling inflation. what happened? we added eight years to life of

the medicare trust fund, without using a voucher for the program, the way governor romney and congressman ryan want to do, and privatizing it. it closed the doughnut hole in the senior drug program, and it left enough money over from the savings to make affordable insurance available to more than 30 million people, most of whom have pre-existing medical conditions. [applause] now, this. what is governor romney's position? repeal that, give money back to the insurance companies, even though they do not need it, even though they had a guaranteed profit of 12%-to-14% on the program, bring the life of the medicare trust fund down from 2014 to 2016, so it runs out of money in four years and it could use the voucher earlier. is a big difference. obama made medicare stronger, not weaker. did not believe all of that height. -- all of that hype.

and, what else happened? republicans say you have to spend 85% of insurance premiums on health care. what has happened? we have $1.3 billion in refunds to americans and lower health insurance rates. health insurance companies around the country have lowered their rates because of this. i have some numbers about the ohio numbers. in ohio, 143,000 people have gotten refunds on their health- care premiums because of the health care law the other side derides. 143,000. you have 3 million americans under the age of 26 that are on insurance for the first time because they can be and their parents health insurance plan and it could put people through community college. they said it will bankrupt

america, the congressional budget office says it will save $110 billion over the next 10 years. it is cheaper than the status quo, and we have had the smallest increase in health-care premiums in the last two years in 51 years. [applause] now, the last thing i could tell you is i had a lot of fun at the democratic convention talking about arithmetic. i listened very carefully to the vice presidential debate, and to the second presidential debate. mr. romney says i am going to do all of this, cut taxes for the middle class, not interested in rich people, they will pay the same percentage of tax they pay now.

what does that mean? he thinks we are dumb. [laughter] if you cut everybody else's taxes and people in the high come -- high income bracket pays the same, it means we pay the same, too. right? in the debate, without saying so, he got caught with a fact. he hates to get caught admitting anything. so, we keep saying show us your budget. where are your numbers? the president has given you a budget and said you will not like all of it. it adds $2.50 of spending cuts for every dollar of revenue, but we have to do something of the about revenue. here are my numbers. where are your numbers? this guy ran bain capital and is a business guy, and he is hiding his budget? that ought to tell you something. well, he is hiding his taxes,

too, but he is hiding his taxes in the years when he turned ordinary income. he is given the two years when he was just running for president. and, he is hiding whether he would have signed the lily ledbetter act. he does not want you to think about him. he wanted to think the economy is terrible, i am a jobs guy. as president obama said, if i brought you a deal, fun my new business, i will give you the budget in the future, you would not give me one red cent, and we should not give him one vote on that. [applause] and mr. paul ryan, you have to give him credit. he tries to come up with the numbers. he said in the debate, well, we do, we repeal deductions on the corporate side of $1 trillion.

you could easily do that and cut rates $1 trillion and make us more competitive. then he says we have another $1 trillion identified on the personal side. they will not say what they are, but let's just give them that. the last time i checked, five- two leaves 3. so, they have admitted that they will increase the debt by two dollars trillion, then by two dollars chilly more by forcing it on the defense department that they have not asked for. how will they get the money? they will either raise taxes on the middle class, and if they do not do that, they will but the budget. in the rise in budget, for example, they cut the medicaid program by about 25%. that is not a political loser. it is just about four kids. i am sick and tired of poor people not being able to work their way into the middle class. most poor people are already working.

they're just not making anything. secondly, medicaid is not just for poor people. it is for seniors on medicare who have lost so much money that medicaid pays for their nursing homes. they will cut it by 25%. and, medicaid is for middle and upper-middle class families whose children have autistic conditions, where multiple sclerosis, or muscular dystrophy, or developmental disabilities, and they would have to go broken have to quit their jobs if nobody helps them to take care of their kids. [applause] now, that is what is going on. so, the obama policy and the obama budget, not only better economics, it honors our values and enables us to go forward together, share prosperity and a middle class economy where poor people have a decent chance to move their way into it. it is just better economics than trickle-down and winner-take- all. it is not only better and morality, it is better economics. i have worked all over the world.

everywhere i go, places that are doing well, they have an effective private sector and a good government working together to share prosperity. if that is the only strategy that will work. that is why we have to reelect barack obama. that is why we have to build a 21st century economy. that is why you have to say no to all this hide and seek stuff. [applause] you'll never have to play hide and seek with the president's budget or tax returns, or the college loan program. you do not have to play hide and seek with the health-care bill. we are coming back. do not go back. we are coming back. thank you, and god bless you all. [applause] ♪

♪

[applause] okay. it is my honor. i hope the crowd is warmed up. i am. [applause] to bring on one of the most important forces in american music in the last 50 years.

one of the coolest dudes i have ever met, and a guy who reflects our real american values, the incomparable bruce springsteen. let's hear it for him. [applause] >> hello. [applause] >> i get to speak after president clinton. that is like going on after elvis here. that is all. i was frantically calling the e street band, saying quick, i need back up.

human speech has been monopolized. if he had brought the saxophone -- [applause] i was gonna -- if he had only brought that saxophone. you would see a real jam up here. [applause] i had better start off by singing something anyway. ♪ we busted out of class had to get away from those schools

we learned more from a three- minute record than we ever learned in school tonight i hear the neighborhood drummer sound beginfeel miy heart to pound you say you are tired and you want to close your eyes funnel your dreams down we made a promise swore we would always remember, no retreat no surrender like soldiers, no retreat no surrender we swore blood brothers against the wind hear your sister's voice across the open yard maybe we could from some place of honor all

we made a promise swore we would never surrender, no retreat no surrender ♪ now, on the streets tonight, the lights grow dim the walls of my room are closing in but i want to sleep beneath peaceful skies

in my lover's bed with a wide open country in my eye and these romantic dreams in my head ♪ no retreat baby, no surrender ♪

[applause] >> that's for the president. thank you, thank you. i will not -- >> we are only allowed to show you three minutes of the performance at this event. >> i am here today for ohio and president obama. >> see the president of eight, monday night, live on c-span, c- span radio and online at c-span.org. tonight, the date from connecticut and virginia. later, president obama and mitt romney at the annual dinner in

new york. >> i have to be honest with you. i love these debates. these things are great. i think it is interesting that the president still does not have an agenda for a second term. don't you think it's time for him to put together a vision of what he would do in the next four years if he were reelected? he asked to come up with that over this weekend because there is only one debate left on monday. >> let's recap what we learned last night. his tax plan does not add up. his jobs plan does not create jobs. his deficit reduction plan adds to the deficit. iowa, everybody here has heard of the new deal. you have heard of a fair deal. you have heard of a square deal. mitt romney is trying to sell you a sketchy deal. we are not buying it. >> watch and engage, monday as

president obama and mitt romney meet in their final debate, moderated by bob schieffer in boca raton, florida. the day starts at 9:00 and your reaction at 10:30. -- the debate starts at 9:00 and your reaction at 10:30. >> men are having a hard time adapting to the economy and women are adapting more easily. then it is education and credentials. women seem to be getting those skills and credentials of a much faster rate than men are. and they seem to be more nimble . that filters down into our society. in the book, i talked about how that changes marriage and our notions of fatherhood and what man can a cannot do in families and how young people have sex and make decisions.

you really start to see it having an influence in our culture. >> offer hanna rosin discusses "the end of men" on afterwards, this weekend on book tv. >> tonight's debate between linda mcmahon and chris smith a are vying to replace senator joe lieberman. this hourlong debate was hosted by the connecticut broadcasters association. >> welcome to the ballroom of the hilton hotel in downtown hartford. this is the final debate in the u.s. senate debate in connecticut between democratic congressman chris murphy and republican linda mcmahon. this event is sponsored by the connecticut broadcasters association. i'm steve kotchko. the reporters for this event include al terzi, dennis house, kesha grant, and mark davis. each reporter will ask a question.

each candidate will have two minutes to respond. there will be an opportunity for one minute rebuttal for both candidates. our reporters will ask questions in sequence. i will intercede as necessary for clarification or to remind time limits. at that point, the format might be offered to allow each candidate equal but reduced time to answer in the remaining time available. each candidate also will have an opportunity for closing statements. i remind everyone in our audience to hold off on applause until the end of the debate. we want to make sure our candidates have time to address the issues. as a result of a coin toss, the

first question will go to linda mcmahon. the question comes from al terzi. >> when asked last week at uconn on how you would protect social security while keeping program costs under control, you did not give any specifics. you said your colleagues would get into a room in a bipartisan way and come up with a solution. pretend this is that room. you have been asked, "what are your ideas?" what would you say? >> thank you for that question. on social security, i will not support any budget that would reduce the benefit that our seniors are getting today. i have continued to say that we need to get in a room and put options on the table. there are several things to think about relative to preserving social security and medicare as we move forward.

all of these issues need to be put on the table. i won't talk about specifics when i'm out on the campaign trail because they get demagogued. you have no opportunity at all to put new issues on the table to discuss them. there are many ways we can reform social security and medicare. we must do it. it is not sustainable going forward. i will not do anything to reduce the benefits our seniors are getting today. chris murphy has a voted to reduce benefits. he would cut benefits by millions of dollars to pay for the affordable health care act. that is not something i would do. we need to protect our seniors. we have made promises to them in social security and medicare. i will do nothing to reduce those benefits. >> congressman murphy.

>> nick and barbara are a senior couple in connecticut. they saved money for retirement, but not enough, so their social security check didn't make a difference for them. nick and barbara want to know what their candidates will do if they get elected. will they ask seniors to bear the burden of saving social security? or ask those who have done very well in this economy? linda mcmahon is right. she has refused to tell people what she will do when she's out on the campaign trail. she has told people what she is in favor of doing when she did not think the cameras were on. she was speaking before a tea party group and said, "i believe in some provisions when we have this kind of legislation."

you can take a look at it 10 or 15 years down the road." i disagree with that. we cannot play games with social security checks. we need to fix the problem and not put our social security at risk. she says that she would get demagogued. you might lose votes. but that is our responsibility as candidates, to tell folks what we would do. i would support raising the cap on income that is taxable for social security. we ask the wealthiest to help us pay for the program. to say that i would cut money from medicare is just wrong.

i would use the money to make benefits stronger for seniors. the health care bill cuts in half the amount that a senior has to pay when they go into the doughnut hole. that is what the health care bill is all about. >> mrs. mcmahon, you have a minute to respond. >> mr. murphy, you know you have not been honest about stating what my position is. you used part of a quote. you never read the whole thing. the ad you put up is baseless and false. i have repeatedly said that i will not do anything to cut benefits to our seniors getting in today. and i won't. cutting millions of dollars out of medicare does affect benefits. medicare actuaries have said that 15% of hospitals will go out of business if those payments are not reimbursed again.

this is a benefit reduction to our seniors and something to be concerned about. >> it is difficult to understand what linda believes for social security. we have to take a few comments she has made on the record, like she did with the tea party group, as her position. other than that, you cannot get from her her priorities. on medicare, her ideas are even more dangerous. she repeatedly said that she would be open to paul ryan and mitt romney's plan to privatize medicare. privatizing medicare would be an absolute disaster for seniors across the state. it would put the entire system in the hands of the insured and not who had our best interests at heart. the privatisation would costs seniors $6,000 more per year.

i will fight with every breath in me. >> take a breath. our next question will come from dennis house. >> mr. murphy, connecticut is a state controlled by a democratic governor, democratic-controlled legistlature, and a congressional delegation made up of all democrats with the exception of independent democrat, joe lieberman. if elected, this one-party rule will continue in connecticut. why do you believe complete control by one party is good for connecticut? >> i have watched what the republican party has become. we have had a tradition in this state that republicans were different from what we see in washington today. unfortunately, the republican party has become radicalized. it has become a shadow of what it once was. i do not think they have connecticut's interest at heart. the republican party that seeks to the control of the senate would eradicate a woman's choice to control decisions for her own body.

a republican senate would have another round of tax cuts for the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class. republicans who want to take over the senate would do away with things, such as funding schools in connecticut. on many of those issues, she holds the same positions as they do. i am proud of the fact that i have reached out across the aisle in congress. i have started a group called the center aisle caucus.

it was a group of democrats and republicans working together to find areas that the two parties can come together on. we need a budget that cut spending at a greater rate than he was willing to. i was willing to call out my party and my president when i think he is wrong. what i saw in washington was a republican party and a tea party that did not have connecticut's interest at heart. >> mrs. mcmahon, it is your turn. >> look at the history of congressman murphy. he has had failed policies that have increased our debt and our taxes have gone up. food prices have increased. gas prices have gone up. wages are lower. everything is increasing. 170,000 people woke up without a job.

the issues of this race are about the jobs and the economy. we need to send, i believe, senators to washington who have experience in creating jobs and know the impact. i know what it is like to lose everything and to have to come back from bankruptcy and to start all over again. i know what it is like to have a child and not have any health care coverage. when i talk to people in connecticut, this is what is on their minds when they think about jobs. we need to make sure that our elected officials that are going to washington have that kind of experience. let's create jobs. that is what we need to do. we need to put people back to work. when we do that, we will get our economy back on track. i have a plan to do that. i have a plan that will cut taxes for the middle class and help our businesses.

it will roll back burdensome regulations. it will cut spending. we will have a comprehensive energy plan. we will drill for oil and natural gas while we try to invest in wind, solar, and geothermal. we will train for jobs we have available. congressman murphy has no plan to put people back to work or to address these issues. what are we going to do to put people back to work? >> thank you. congressman murphy, you have one minute. >> i do have a plan. i have a plan that is different from hers. we have tried her plan. it has failed. we tried it under the bush administration. less taxes for millionaires.

exploding deficit and less funding for our schools and infrastructure. there is nothing different from her plan than what has been tried and failed already. i want to do something different. i want to concentrate tax cut on the middle class and take the money we would be spending and tax cuts for the wealthy and putting it into our families and schools and helping our kids we a little bit of a boost. there is a big difference between our plan in this election. that is what we should be talking about. i do not think we should go back to the same set of the economic policies that involved the plan that he has talked about and has resulted in the emerging crisis we are emerging from. >> congressman murphy, every time it is time to talk about your issues -- you say you have a plan, but you do not have a plan. i would like you to go through your plan. mine has six points. you can look at it. you can judge it.

you can see what i stand for and what i will do. my plan is to cut taxes for the middle class and lower that tax bracket to 15%. that is the only bracket i would touch. the others would stay the same. >> time for a new question from kesha grant. >> thank you. we live in one of the wealthiest states, yet we have one of the highest poverty rates. do you think the income gap is a problem? if so, do you have a plan to close the gap and revive the middle class in connecticut? >> that is exactly what my plan was to do. getting people back to work.

lower taxes on job creators so that we give the uncertainty and they will invest and grow. reduce the business taxes from 35% to 25%. getting rid of the over burdensome regulation. regulations are hurt businesses. we need regulation, but we do not need or burdensome regulations. my plan is designed and geared to put people back to work. taxes for job creators need to be reduced. small businesses need to have certainty that they can hire. they do not know what will happen at the end of this year. will the tax breaks expire? will they all expire? it is a full implementation of the affordable health care act goes through, the taxes will increase.

defense industries are looking at having potential jobs lost. this is preventing our businesses are growing and hiring. the middle class will benefit from the tax cut. they will go back to work. small businesses will create more jobs. our economy will get jumpstarted and back on track. >> congressman murphy. >> she has a resuscitation of this idea that if you cut taxes for millionaires and give tax breaks to businesses that you will raise that wage gap.

my mother had the chance to rise herself up out of poverty because of education. we gave individuals at the bottom of the economic scale tools in which to succeed. linda mcmahon wants to solve the problem for the people at the bottom of the income scale by helping people at the top of the income scale. that is not what has made this country great. what has made this country great is investing in those people. we have to end the bush tax cuts for the wealthy. put half of that to pay off our deficit and the other half into education. we should be putting the money into our people, whether it be job training programs or lowering -- investment in people and believing that they can do something great is what will close that gap. linda mcmahon has had the chance to do that, and she has not done it. when the state of connecticut

gave her $10 million for a company to create jobs in the middle of the recession, she took that money and pocketed it. she laid off 10% of the workforce while making millions of dollars. that is what exacerbates the income gap. she takes advantages of tax credits and workers. i support education and job training. we need to grow the economy from the middle out and not from the top down. >> you both mentioned the middle class. can you define what the middle class means? how do you define middle class? >> as part of my plan when i reduce the 35% to 25%, i am looking at the portion as a middle class as part of my plan. congressman murphy, my plan is

not a tax cut for me. it is a tax cut for the middle class. the other brackets stayed the same. we need to reinvigorate our middle class. let's get small businesses working. i know what it takes. i know how we can grow when you have certainty to invest. congressman murphy has never created any jobs. he has not been part of the private market. he is a career politician. we do not want to send the same people to washington that made this mess and expect them to fix it. >> thank you. congressman murphy. >> i think families trying to struggle to make their budget work every month would be in trouble if they missed a couple of paychecks.

that is the middle class. mrs. mcmahon is wrong with the ideas that expanding the private sector qualifies you to be a united states senator. you need to know something about creating jobs. when you have made the choices that she has made to pocket our money and then lay off workers, that shows that you do not necessarily have the values that it takes to be a united states senator. ultimately, her plan could drastically cut funding for education. i think we need to go the other way. we should be making investments in our schools and colleges and to make more little girls like my mother to make the american dream. that is what creates real wealth. that is what will shrink at wage gap. >> thank you. the next question is from mark davis. this will go to chris murphy. >> as hard as my colleagues have

tried, i have heard the same stuff for the previous 20 minutes. let's try something else. most of the people i hear from are fed up with your advertising. what they do not seem to realize is that the radio and tv broadcasting stations have no power to veto or edit your advertisements in any way under federal law. it is an opportunity to legally lie on radio and television. would you support a repeal of that law? >> i think it would be a great benefit to the people of connecticut to hear the truth. it seems like almost every other week we are picking up the hartford current and are saying a linda mcmahon ad as misleading. we have an obligation to talk about our differences.

i am proud to be running on tv right now and talking about my job record and the work i have done to create jobs with the building of a new rail line and how i have been able to put teachers back on the job. i also understand i have to talk about where linda mcmahon and i are different. people need to know that i support tax cuts for the middle class. i support a woman's right to choose. linda mcmahon sides with the right wing. i do think we need to tell this story. ultimately, something else besides the amount of money you need to run ads in a campaign has to matter, obviously.

in the end, it is not the tv commercials that will win out, but our ideas and values that we hold. people will see that. i am proud to talk about my record on tv, but i think we have an obligation to talk about our opponent. >> so you do not support repealing the law that requires broadcasters to carry your ad no matter what they say? >> it would be dangerous to let individuals decide which ads to run and which to not. i'd look at a way to have stations -- >> thanks. mrs. mcmahon. >> there are instances where they are allowed to take down ads of false information. that has happened if they are asked to do that. congressman murphy brings up the hartford current and my ads.

the hartford current said it was baseless and false. we can look and know that congressman murphy has to own up to his own actions. there is a way i believe that we can communicate to our voters -- be out talking with them. let them look us in the eye and ask the tough questions. believe me, i have been all over the state. voters are not shy about asking you about what you will do or what can you do for me? a woman came up to me and said, i lost my job.

i am working two jobs to make ends meet and i cannot do it. a mother looks at me and says, and gas prices are so high i am having to choose which activities to take my kids to. these are of the results of the failed policies of congressman murphy of the past six years he has served in congress. he has voted to raise the debt ceiling six times. our debt has more than doubled. he says he will cut taxes on the middle class, but he has raised taxes on the middle class. look at congressman murphy's record. he says one thing in connecticut and does another thing in washington. we need job creators that will deliver for the people of connecticut. >> you also don't support the repeal, in other words? >> no, i would not vote for that. >> let's clarify -- she is right that it is important for us to get out there and talk with people. linda mcmahon has been reluctant to do this and go out to reporters.

you can see why. when she does, we start to see what she really stands for. we start to hear about these plans about social security or to support the privatization of the medicare. you start to see her at the meeting last week that she would oppose connecticut law-madated contraception for rape victims. i want to do something different than what we have done in the past. i want to make sure we invest in the middle class and in the rich. i am willing to talk about that in any form. >> mrs. mcmahon. >> congressman murphy, i am waiting to hear about your plan of how you help the middle class and put people back to work.

you have not come forward with any kind of plan. you continue to talk about your record. your record is a plan. >> i have been talking about my plan all day today. >> your record has been to raise taxes on the middle class. your record has increased our debt. it has more than doubled. your record has increased gas prices and food costs going up and wages going down and more home foreclosures in our state. we cannot afford six more years of him in washington. >> next question. mrs. mcmahon. >> mr. murphy has suggested that if republicans gain the majority in the senate, women need to look out.

many abortion proponents, including a top leader of an organization, say that they will vote for you. voters are confused about all of this. how do demonstrate and approve to doubtful voters that you truly are pro-choice? >> i have said from the beginning that i am a pro-choice candidate. that has not changed. i am a woman. i have a daughter. i have three granddaughters. i do not want to take any action that will be harmful to them on their health choices. those are the choices they should make and not the federal parliament. -- federal government. congressman murphy has top row where i am on this issue. i am pro-choice. it is important that we have health care in place for contraceptives and mammograms.

i provide those are my company. i am proud of the record i have. i will do nothing that will impact the health and well-being of those closest to me, especially my daughter and my granddaughters. to say that i would do anything differently is ludicrous. i would support connecticut's law for emergency contraceptive. >> nancy keen and the head of the leading pro-choice group said linda mcmahon is not pro- choice. a man is voting for linda mcmahon because her election could lead to the overturning of roe versus wade.

you cannot say that you are pro- choice while supporting things like the fourth amendment, which would take away from women the ability to purchase contraception. but you cannot say that you are pro-choice and then be open to voting for supreme court justices that would overturn the very law that provides access for women to full preventative health care benefits of. i am a pro-choice advocate in this state. i went to the state legislature to fight for connecticut. i stood up as a member of the committee that wrote the health care bill to enact a provision that would establish women's health care in each of the important women and health agencies and. this is personal. my wife was ahead of the connecticut's pro-choice organization. we have spent much of our lives

fighting for this cause. linda mcmahon is not pro-choice. she continues to support laws that would undermine access to preventive health care for women. she might be the 51st vote for anti-woman tea party vote. >> you talked about how hard you fought. when you were at the state senate, you were co-chair of a committee. you would not bring it up for vote. you say you worked for that, but when you were running for congress, you let that bill died. i am a pro-choice candidate. what hurts women more today is the fact that they do not have

jobs and more women are in poverty. we need to make sure we get them back to work. those are the issues that women in our state are talking about most of all. they want to ensure they can continue to provide for their families. they need most of the economic decisions and their all. they want changes. they want jobs. the want economy to get back on track. they want to make sure their husbands will have a job. they want their kids to have jobs when they graduate from college. >> mr. murphy, one more minute for you. >> linda mcmahon is not telling the truth when she says i let the bill died. and ever advocate who was pushing for the bill, i was the support for it. linda mcmahon opposes making sure that every woman in the state whether the walk into a secular hospital has access to emergency contraception.

part of the reason why then there is some support from me amongst women is not only the positions taken on the issue, but linda mcmahon's treatment of women in the business that she ran. she demeans women in the ring. >> thank you. dennis house, you have the next question. it does to congressman murphy. >> you are pro-choice. when do you believe life begins? >> i do not think government should get in the way of that decision. i know that people have

different beliefs on that subject. ultimately, that decision about whether a woman goes through the painful choice is ultimately hers and her doctor's. the republican party is trying to take that choice away from women. we are one vote away from the supreme court from getting them removed. i do not think ultimately that is the way to go. i will fight with every last breath to make sure that the women of this state have the ability to make that decision on their own. i will fight to make sure that the supreme court does not have enough votes to overturn it roe v. wade. that is a commitment of mind. it is different than the commitment of linda mcmahon.

i think life begins at birth. i support our current law that restricts late-term abortions unless the mother's life is at stake. >> congressman murphy and i have a great deal of disagreement. i am absolutely pro-choice. i do not think the choice should be made by the united states government. i am absolutely opposed to a partial birth abortions with the same caveat of congressman murphy. i will not support my party in repealing this law. i am independent speaker.

i will not always vote with party lines. congressman murphy has voted with his party a majority of the time. >> when do you believe life begins? >> i also believe that life begins at birth. >> when you look at these issues that are critical to women, it is hard to see the differentiation. she will not of the line at opposing supreme court justice that opposes roe v. wade. she will support mitch mcconnell to be her party's leader. he will stop at nothing to stop a woman of's right to choose. she will end contraception coverage for women.

they see my record for standing up for women across the state. if you care about protecting the woman a's right to choose, there is only one choice in this campaign. >> mrs. mcmahon. >> congressman murphy continues to mischaracterize what i say. i have said that i support connecticut's for emergency contraception. women have lost their jobs. more of them are in poverty.

more of them are looking for ways to sustain their families. they are worried. they want to make sure our economy will get back on track. the greatest comfort is to know that our economy will be sound again. this is the primary issue facing women today in our state and as well as our country. we need people to go to washington and get our economy back on track. >> our next question will come from kesha grant. >> we have seen the campaign ads. this race has become vicious. it has become personal. when we look at your campaign ad, are you ever embarrassed of this? >> i think we have a great cross section of our ads on television. it puts forth might positioned

-- my positions and also contrasts with congressman murphy pose a position. when there are issues where he has not been forthcoming, we should draw the attention to the people of connecticut. he had an ad that was a running that talks about -- and this ad had a picture of another country's submarine and not an american submarine. for the people, it was very hurtful. you need to have honesty in the ads. the purpose of the ads is to create, i believe, but to inform the public about what our positions are. i have had ads that have talked about my plans and how we will put people back to work. it is the primary issue in this

a race across the country. i talk about my plan and contrast the fact that i want to lower taxes on the middle class. we will have contrast on the ads ago on television. i will continue to communicate my position with the people of connecticut. >> i'm sorry, so you are saying you are not embarrassed about any of these ads? >> no, we are communicating our message to the folks of connecticut. >> are you embarrassed about your own ads? >> i thought i would get off easy. our campaign ads show you how little she wants to talk about the issues.

linda mcmahon's ads have been vicious and personal. they have been directed at me, my wife, and my family. when i run ads, i talked about the differences between linda mcmahon and i on our professional background and our ideas for the state going forward. i am not running ads attacking her and her family in a way that her ads have attacked me and my family. her campaign was asked at one. after a month of hitting hard and dishes adds, why do you not talk about issues? her campaign said that would be a senseless exercise. it would be a senseless exercise for her campaign. we need to be talking about the differences between the two of us on the issues. >> i thought that was one

minute. >> he has a few more seconds. >> sorry. i do not want to be like mitt romney and complain about the debate rules. we have heard tax policy and supported education. we do have a major difference. ultimately i hope that the last two weeks of this campaign are on those differences. people see that linda mcmahon stands with a right-wing ideology. >> we have replaced the batteries on our clock.

mrs. mcmahon, you have one minute. >> i keep asking congressman murphy to talk about issues. you keep hearing "linda mcmahon." you do not hear what his plan is going to be to put people in our state back to work. you do not hear how he is going to grow the economy because he does not need to talk about his plan. we do not have a solid economy. we have higher taxes. debt has doubled since he has been in office. we cannot afford six more years of his failed policies. >> congressman. >> that is not true. we have lowered taxes. i do talk about my plan. no matter how many times he

repeats it does not make it true. repetition does not equal voracity. -- veracity. my plan is rooted in a middle class tax cut and that end of the bush tax cuts. we need to have new energy security in this nation so we can be the world in energy. we need to put construction workers back on the job. we need to educate the next generation of business creators and job creators across this country. my plan is investing in the people in the state. no matter how many times linda mcmahon says i do not have a plan does not make it true. let's talk about the differences between our plans. let's talk about the issues that matter to the people of connecticut. >> thank you. mark davis, a question from you for congressman murphy. >> this question came from a colleague of mine at abc news.

let's see how you do. can you please say something nice about your opponent? [laughter] >> not sure if i will need the full two minutes for this. linda mcmahon is a driven person. when she sets her mind to something, she has shown that she can accomplish that. she has over the last several years made some substantial investments in connecticut charities. that has done some good things for people. i give her credit on both of those accounts. you are right. these campaigns tend to be very personal. i think people are tired of these. people want it to be bought issue differences.

-- about issue differences. they are sick and tired of the campaign's being personal. they see that extended over and to government. -- into governing. people in washington do nothing but fight while they are trying to find a way to get along. co-workers try to find a way to get along. they do not see that happening in washington. i decided to stop complaining about the personal politics. i decided to try to do something about it. democrats and republicans should come together. i get it. it is not revolutionary. we need to let people to washington who will start working on bringing the two parties together.

i am proud of the work i have gone in the house of representatives. i want to do more work in the senate. i am happy to admit that there are definitely some nice things i could say despite our disagreements. >> mrs. mcmahon. >> the best thing about congressman murphy are his two little boys. they are so cute. i am a grandmother. i can imagine the pride that he has in watching them every day and want to have the best for them. i noticed this about congressman murphy and his little boys. i congratulate him and his wife for having such a nice family. i am sure that he would like to make sure that the future for those young boys will be bright and have even better opportunities he had an for the next generation to come. that is why i am focusing so much in this based on what is

wrong with our economy today. i will keep going back to it because it is what is pulling down our middle class. that is why i won a tax cut for -- want a tax cut for the middle class. i want to make sure that his little boys, my grandchildren, have the same opportunity in america to succeed. that is what this race is about. i wonder if my grandchildren will have the same opportunities that the grandfather had what our debt was under control and when we were spending more than we are making. i do not want that to be our legacy to them. i want my legacy to them to be that have the american promise for opportunity in. i remember when we lost everything we had and had to file for bankruptcy.

we had to start over. we were able to because of the opportunities this country offered us. we want to make sure that children have the opportunity. >> chris murphy, you have another minute to say nice things. [laughter] >> i appreciate that, mrs. mcmahon. we are really proud of them. i do not take a lot of credit for how wonderful they are. i give the credit to my wife. my reason for running it is rooted in those same stories. my mother rose to the middle class from poverty. mrs. mcmahon and i just disagree on how to do the.

i think you need to support education and job training. support in like public housing and programs that can make their families whole. our rationales for running is similar, but we are different and how to make that change. >> mrs. mcmahon, you have one minute is a warm and fuzzy things about congressman murphy. [laughter] >> we do have a different philosophy. his philosophy is one of bigger government and more government control. mine is about private sector investing. i am for a tax cut for the middle class. i would keep the other tax brackets the same. we need to get our debt in line and our economy back on track.

it does not happen by the regulations that have passed in washington. it happens by encouraging our middle class and let our job creators and our small businesses flourish. our economy will then grow. as long as we stay in debt, we will not come out of this recession. >> thank you. we are getting close to the end of the hour. we will switch things up a bit. i will ask you a question. each of you have one minute to answer and one minute rebuttal. foreign policy. this will go to mrs. mcmahon. a governor went to china recently to discuss business for the state of connecticut. but there are a lot of people who complained about china policy influence in the world, geopolitical and economic.

do you see them as an ally or a rival to the united states? >> this is relative to china and businesses in our state. china is our fifth export in connecticut. i do think the chinese need to respect our intellectual property laws, which they do not. they take our products and manufactured a similar version and sell it at cheaper prices. we cannot allow china to manipulate its currency. >> congressman -- ally or rival? >> both. we have let china get away with murder when it comes to policy.

the currency is manipulated. we should call them out for it. this is critical. the federal government is outsourcing our own work in the department of defense to chinese companies. we need to stop that and keep jobs here at home. listen, i think our histories are not relevant here. -- are relevant here. linda mcmahon has outsourced work at wwe to places in china. >> he talks about this, but i have been around our state. i have talked to companies who are threatened with the knockoffs that china does.

they're finding that they are painting those products and sending it right back. we need to make sure the and not manipulating the currency. we need to make sure that they are not infringing on our intellectual property. we should use them as a trading partner, but we do need to have fair trade. >> congressman, you have one minute also. >> she has this line that i voted against the measure. i voted for the amendment. she attacks the on this issue because she does not want to tell you that she does not believe in the measure. she does not believe we should advance connecticut companies

with taxpayer contracts. there are companies right here in connecticut who are losing jobs as we speak because we do not have people in congress who are standing up for american laws. there is 600,000 jobs in this country that could be created if we had stronger laws for those workers who are desperate for a paycheck. that is not a slogan, but a solution. >> very good. we had a separate coin toss earlier on the issue of closing statements and order. the result of the coin toss is at the first closing statement will come from linda mcmahon. >> thank you for joining us today. the voters of connecticut will have a choice in november. it is a choice between someone who create jobs and has plans to and best for you and some was never created a job and has

no plan for those people who are out of work in our state. this is the most important issue in this election. you'll have a choice between someone who cannot be bought and between someone who has already taken special interest money. my opponent is to hold public office. i will make sure that our kids and grandkids have a better opportunity than we did. i am asking you to make history in november and the first woman from connecticut to sit in the united states senate. i am a woman that cannot be bought. i will work for you. i am linda mcmahon. i am asking for your vote on november 6. >> congressman murphy. >> my parents taught me that if there is a fight that matters, you cannot sit on the sidelines.

i have dedicated myself to fighting for the middle class. i fight for tax cut for them and standing up for manufacturing jobs. i have been in the middle of some of the biggest fights that have mattered in the state. what makes the contrast between me and linda mcmahon so clear is that she has not only sat on the sidelines, but she has made things works. she has outsourced work and sells sex and violence to our kids. linda mcmahon has never been there for us, but i have. i hope i have lived up to the challenge that my parents laid out for me. it would be my honor to continue that work as your united states senator. >> thank you. we hope this debate has helped the voters as they ponder their final decision in this election. we urge you to vote on election day. i want to thank our candidates,

chris murphy and linda mcmahon, and our reporter panel -- al terzi, dennis house, kesha grant, and mark davis. also, the hilton hartford hotel. and our sponsor, the connecticut broadcasters association. i'm steve kotchko. thank you for being with us. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> on "washington journal" tomorrow morning, we focus on presidential candidates' forum policy. they cover the state department -- a law professor will be in our studio to discuss his recent peace questioning the relevance of the electoral college. former wyoming senator alan simpson will join us to defend the electoral college. then wages and benefits with a guest and the bureau of labor statistics and a policy analyst with bloomberg government.

"washington journal" is live on c-span every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> to be honest with you -- i love these debates. these things are great. i think it is interesting that the president still does not have an agenda for a second term. don't you think it is time for him to finally put together a vision of what he would do in the next four years if he were elected? he has got to come up with that -- there is only one debate left on monday. >> let's recap what we learned last night. his jobs plan does not make jobs. his tepid -- deficit reduction plan and to the deficit. . adds to the deficit. everyone has heard of the new deal, the fair deal, the square deal -- mitt romney is trying to sell you a sketchy deal.

we are not buying it. >> watch and engage monday as president obama and romney meet in their final debate from lynn university in boca raton, florida. the debate at 9:00 and your reaction at 10:30, online at c- span.org and on c-span and c- span radio. >> writing about an instant city -- i have been there to visit it. it has been there since 1947. it showed films from all over the world, the united states, england, india -- and to me it symbolized the resilience of a country and the openness of the country despite all the violence and trouble people have suffered over the last many decades in pakistan. during one of the protests against a video that insulted

duringphet muhammad, one of the protests people turned against the movie theaters and burned them. i do not see that as a protest against the west. i do not see that as a protest against the united states, even though "avatar" is one of the movies you could have seen at this theater. you had islamist activists who had not liked the movie theaters for decades, way before this film which was never shown in any of them. so they grabbed an opportunity to attack. they whipped up a bunch of young people, there were teenagers involved who teenagerssodas from the snack bar on the way to burn this movie theater. i argue that what they were really attacking was the nature of their own country, which perhaps they did not understand. i say that with the greatest

respect -- who might as a foreigner to see what your country is about? but i do know from studying the history, listening to pakistani themselves, that it is an incredibly diverse place. it was born in even more diverse place than it is today -- lots of different cultures, traditions, waste to be. that movie theater symbolized pakistan. that is what people burned when they set it on fire. >> more with steve inskeep on c- a."'s "q and >> virginia senate candidates tim kaine and george allen me tonight for a debate. it is current -- in roanoke. campaign. beautiful campus in virginia.

♪ [applause] ♪ [applause]

for tonight's debate. -- good evening. i am the moderator for tonight's debate. joining me is my longtime partner at this coverage, who happens to be the chairman of the communications department of virginia tech bang and a distinguished professor here. behind us is a southwest virginia crowd filling the haymarket theater here in the student center. we welcome them and welcome all of you. not only across southwest virginia and the commonwealth, by coming to nationwide from coverage on c-span. tonight is your opportunity to hear directly from candidates, unfiltered and unedited. it is our hope this will be a lively hour that explores new ground in this campaign and forces the candidates to really face the issues that not only are troubling our commonwealth but also our entire country. at the and we hope you'll be able to go into the voting

booth on november 6 and macon in mall -- a more informed decision. it is my honor now to introduce them to you. it in the interest of time, i asked are very enthusiastic crowd will applaud only twice tonight so we can get as many questions in at possible. at the end of the debate as well as the beginning as we meet our candidates. we will begin with a republican, hailing from mount vernon, virginia, former governor and senator of virginia, george allen. [applause] and now, the democratic candidate, hailing from richmond, virginia, the former mayor of acidy and former governor of virginia, tim kaine. [applause]

i think i told you we have an enthusiastic crowd, and yes we do. thank you for agreeing to purchase state in this important debate and putting your agenda out there for voters. i want to begin with your opening statement -- we decided everything by the top of -- toss of a coin. we will begin with governor kaine. 90 seconds for your statement. >> thank you for this opportunity. it is great to be here at virginia tech. i feel very close to this community. we know we have got challenges as a nation. the main one is to consider -- continue to accelerate the economy and grow jobs, but to do that we need to have a congress that knows how to work together. i have learned bible lessons as mayor and governor, and -- a valuable lessons as mayor and governor. in 2008 we were going through what turned out to be the worst years, andn 20075

university president said, why don't we do a construction campaign on state colleges? there was an idea to build a virginia tech school of medicine in roanoke. i worked together with my lettuce -- legislature and by the end of it we did a $1.4 billion bond package of construction all-around this commonwealth. that medical school is open today in roanoke, helping to revive and accelerate the roanoke economy and doing great work to train physicians. it was about jobs. it was that public-private partnership. it was about education and infrastructure. i have a long jobs plan, but i basically summarize it. the missing ingredient -- democrats and republicans have to work together. that is what is needed in washington. that is how governor. that is the kind of senator i will be to have the chance to send me and i have a chance to serve in the senate. thank you. >> now a senator allen.

>> good evening, and thank everyone for watching. we have been listening to the people of virginia, and they want leaders to work together to get our economy back on the right track, create jobs, stop wasteful spending and restore the american dream. people do want to sea change in washington. that is where tim kaine and i differ. i want to be virginia's senator. tim wants to be president obama's senator. going around the country giving partisan speeches as chairman of the democratic party, instead of staying home and dealing with the economic crisis where over 100,000 virginians were losing jobs. timid chose to leave. on every significant issue, tim has been for the obama policies that are hurting virginians. from the harmful energy policies that are devastating coal communities in southwest virginia to our electric bills skyrocketing. obamacare that is in danger in

the access of medicare to our seniors, and now this sequestration deal that is threatening another 200,000 virginia jobs. in washington, you deserve a strong, independent voice, not and echo. if i will have the honor of serving as united states senator, i will work hard every day to build a society, a society where hard work is rewarded and every american has an opportunity to succeed. >> thank you for those opening statements. we want to get to the questions now. each will receive nine seconds to answer each question, with a 62nd rebuttal. all the questions were devised by myself and you at home -- a lot of good questions from our viewers. we are priscian of that and will leave that into the question period -- appreciative of that and will weave that into the questions. neither did grant had advance knowledge -- neater candidate

had advance knowledge of the questions. i want to begin with what i think of the campaign narrative and what has become the criticism for both of you -- governor kaine, we will begin with you. we heard this criticism tonight -- that you will be president obama's center. you heard it just now. your friends with the president, which share of the democratic party at his request, and are running out in your working relationship with mark warner, the senator from virginia, he needs a partner in washington. but according to "the washington post" senator warner has voted with democratic relations -- leadership 93% of the time. how can you assure voters will be your own voice in the united states senate? >> let me start with the common george made that i will not be virginia senator if i support president obama. this is a huge difference between us. i do not think it is anti- virginian to support the

president of united states. i do not think it is anti- virginian to support the commander in chief. when i was governor for three years, president bush was president, and i worked closely with president bush on expanding rail to dulles, on the response to the tragic shootings here at virginia tech, on supporting his request for a line-item veto. we disagree, but on any area where we could agree i considered him a partner. george has made it clear he will not consider president obama a partner. i will always work with the president of the united states. when george was in the senate, he voted with president bush 96% of the time, but nobody had the temerity to suggest he was not a virginia senator because he supported president bush. he might have agreed his policies -- i have a long track record of serving my community as a nonpartisan mayoral and city councilman, cutting crime, building schools, growing business. then i was lt. governor and

governor with two republican house. we were the best managed state forbes magazine. education week said were the best state to raise a child. i did that by being a good leader and making the kind of independent and forward-looking choices virginians want. >> senator alan, we will get to your side in this question -- you have 90 minutes to respond. >> tim had a choice to make when he was governor. the economic crisis in virginia -- 100,000 jobs are being lost and he chose to go around the country demonizing republicans. he called republicans corrosive. he called republicans the te abag party. that is not a partisan. indeed, when you are governor of virginia you have the greatest honor that anybody could be

bestowed upon by the people of virginia, and he chose to spend his time going around the country raising money and giving partisan speeches and proposing and advocating for the policies that are so harmful to virginia, whether it is the energy policy devastating southwest virginia communities or seniors with medicare -- we have skyrocketing spending that has deep in debt to china and also sequestration, which is threatening us. we talk about being the best managed state -- while he was going around gathering funds for the democratic national party, he should have been spending time here in virginia and uncovering funds in the department of transportation. maybe then he would not have been shutting down rest areas all around virginia. that is not good management. that is an embarrassment, a bad image for the commonwealth of virginia. if you are paying attention -- you might have found there were over $1 billion in the vdot

account and you could have not had that embarrassment of shutting down rest areas. >> your rebuttal? >> george did not tell you that when he was a senator for two years he was head of the republican senate campaign committee. he did -- did not tell you he praised governor gilmore when the governor became chairman of the republican national committee. he praised governor mcdonald for being head of the republican governors association last year. the fact of the matter is that virginians did asked to do leadership come -- positions because leadership is strong in virginia. what virginians care about is results. in 2009, when i was party chair and governor, the pew center said four states have done what is necessary to get this country out of recession -- virginia was one of the four. the publications to rent states for business -- they all ranked virginia number 1. we brokered a deal to get real dulles.rail to

we brokered with hilton, rolls royce, northop grumman, they announced their headquarters would be in the area. virginians care about results, and in the toughest times in the 1930's, we got results every year i was governor, especially in 2009. >> senator allen, the criticism of your campaign has been a lingering question of how the second term would be from your first term? you largely walk in lockstep with the republican leadership and the bush agenda. you just heard that from governor kaine. at times, because -- you voted with your party up to 98% of the time. will you return to that voting pattern or will you espouse a more bipartisan agenda that will

move forward in virginia and the country? >> i will be a senator for the people of virginia. losing that last election was a humbling experience. you learn from losing dan have time to reflect and see how things are going. every vote matters, and they seem to be out of touch with the needs and concerns i hear from people all over virginia. i will be focused on jobs, and on virginia. that is what is needed in washington. i have worked across party lines. talk about my time -- the democrats control the legislature when i was governor. we were able to cut taxes by $600 million. tim was trying to raise taxes by $4 billion. we reduced the size of the state work force by 9000 and were over 300,000 net new jobs created. that was the result of a more pro-business approach of the governor, myself, who used all

my time i could for jobs and recruiting investment to virginia while tim was running around the country advocating for the obama policies as well as raising money and trying to get votes for -- folks like harry reid and nancy pelosi reelected. when he was governor, more than 100,000 jobs were lost. i have worked across party lines and have worked with republicans and democrats to get this economy going. i think we can find common ground in making sure our tax laws are more competitive than simple. if we do that, will send a message to the world that america is open for business, and i look forward to doing that for virginia and america. >> governor? >> what the audience are -- he was asked about his senate record and talked about being governor. he is running for record -- reelection in the u.s. senate. his record was of irresponsibility and partisanship. he came into the u.s. senate with a historic surplus. we were in great shape.

but the time he left six years later, we have massive deficits. he voted to increase the debt by $16,000 every second he was in the united states senate. he expanded medicare which was good, except he did not pay for it. he was part of the senate and house the declared two wars but, for the first time in history, chose not to pay for the wars and instead put them on the credit card for our kids to pay. he made a massive tax cuts to help the wealthy, but he did not pay for them. it was all on the credit card. during his time in the senate, we went from surplus to deficit. he voted four times to raise his own pay. he voted four times to raise the debt limit, rejecting spending limitations. he voted for 52,000 earmarks that totaled $121 billion. even george had to admit when i raised with him -- spending was a problem when i was in the senate, he said. we do not need to go back to it. he was a very harsh partisan, attacking hillary clinton as

somebody who does not share our values. attacking john kerry, and when john warner, our senior center, led 18 to bring senators together, george not only would not join them but said it we did not need to compromise. >> your bottle? >> john warner and i worked together as a team for virginia in a variety of ways, including national defense and security. i am proud to have john warner as a friend and ally. i returned back $1.4 million in the six years of service the senate, showing you can reduce spending. that is the comparison one can make -- i cut my salary 10% of four years as governor. tim on the cut his 5%. when i left the senate, the unemployment rate was only 4.4%. now is hovering around 8% for 44 months. spending does need to get under

control. there does need to be fiscal discipline. the annual budget deficit was $160 billion. now, four straight years, it has been over $1 trillion. the credit worthiness of our country has been downgraded for the first time ever. is because of the policies and spending andtim kaine @ -- has been advocating. he talks about $16,000 per second -- is now $47,000 per second. he criticized the tax cuts i supported -- 7 million american jobs were created in the recession. i am glad i reduce taxes on families and small businesses and growing our economy. >> thank you. our next question comes from -- goes to governor kaine. >> according to "forbes," the congressional budget office says medicare will cost the country $1 trillion annually for the next 10 years. the rate of growth is simply

unsustainable. you have proposed some changes to the system, which frankly seem modest compared to the costs we are expecting in the next few years. so, do you believe your plan will fix the problem entirely, or is this something bigger needed, including possibly increasing the age for eligibility? >> thank you for asking that question. medicare is critically important. it is an important safety net proposal that helps this year's deal with the cost of medicine. you are right -- the budget is growing in an accelerated way. let's start off saying it is ground for a good reason -- we are living longer. it is a problem, but a problem caused by success. let's at least the knowledge that. but we do have to get costs under control. i put a plan on the table. let me discuss a for a second. when medicare was expanded when george allen was a senator to cover prescription drugs, i heartily support that. i think it is great medicare

covers prescription drugs, but congress made huge errors. they chose not to pay for the expansion and put it on a credit card. second, they guaranteed pharmaceutical companies that it would not negotiate for the prices of prescription drugs -- that was so foolish. no pharmacy would make that mistake. no walmart with a pharmacy would make that mistake. if we allowed them to negotiate for prices for pharmaceutical companies, and we already do when we buy the same drugs for the va, we save $25 billion a year. we should make that change tomorrow. we should have made it years ago. that rigueur long way to helping a challenge. we will have more to do, and i think eventually what we need to do is continue with experiments that are pilot projects now under way where we pay for half the outcomes rather than just paying for procedures. -- healthy outcomes instead of just paying for procedures. >> center allen?

>> -- senator allen ? >> i propose a way to make sure medicare is solvent. we need to make sure social security and medicare are there for current recipients and to generations. two ideas -- one, a gradual age increase in eligibility for those under age 50 as well as an income adjustment to it. timid criticizes medicare part a d. i think it makes sense that we treat someone who has high blood pressure before they have a stroke. with more competition, senior is no longer have to worry about whether they can afford medications as well as food. what tim has said as far as obamacare is concerned, the health care tax, he said it is "great for democrats." i do not think it is great for seniors i have been hearing from who are worried that the obamacare approach is going to

be reading the -- raiding $700 billion from medicare. i've heard from one fellow who has heart trouble that his cardiologists will go back into medical research rather than providing help to him and he will have to find another doctor. the other thing, as far as seniors are concerned, when i was governor of the cut taxes on social security benefits and remove the discriminatory tax on that military retirees. tim should explain why he wanted to raise taxes as governor on people earning as little as $17,000 a year and many to go on social security and medicare. >> let me talk about senator allen and health care. when he was in the senate, the number of uninsured people went up by 8 million and premiums for families went up 80%. he does not have a half to record except for voting for the medicare expansion. you heard what i said -- i

thought it was a good idea to expand medicare to cover prescription drugs, but i criticized george for the giveaway to the pharmaceutical companies the cost american taxpayers $25 billion a year. he would not even address that. i am not criticizing prescription drug benefits -- i say we should not give $25 billion a way to pharmaceutical companies. we should keep that in the system. as far as the $700 billion -- that was money that was taken away from insurance companies and given it to seniors. preventative care, reduced preventive -- prescription drugs. he wants to repeal the act, take the money back from seniors, and given to insurance companies. that is not my idea of medicare reform or a health-care plan. >> another question, this time going first to senator allen. >> a simple question -- if the bowles simpson plan to reduce the deficit and balance the

budget came to vote in the senate as is, would you vote for it? if not, what is your mouth? what specific math to get to the balanced budget? >> i think the bowles simpson approach was an idea from the president and he walked away from it as if it were a dead animal on the front porch. you would have thought a president who put together a bipartisan commission would embrace it and move forward. there were some good ideas in the approach, and i would support those. but i think that what ought to be done -- here is my plan of what needs to be done for fiscal sanity to get this economy moving. we ought to repealed and replaced obamacare. it is adding trillions of dollars in spending in trillions of dollars in taxes, hurting seniors, hurting the medical profession, and especially hurt small businesses and job opportunities. secondly, tim talks about revenue. he talks about revenue as the only way you can raise taxes.

in this fragile economy -- it would only cause more job losses. one way to raise revenues is with a vibrant and strong and healthy economy where businesses are prospering and people are working. i think we -- this is what i do like about polls simpson. -- bowles simpson. eliminating loopholes in hetch -- casco. i would call for a 20% tax that would create over 500,000 new jobs a year and $23 billion in revenues. another way to get revenues is to unleash the blessings of our plant of american energy resources. if we did that, from the appalachians to the rockies to alaska, there would be hundreds of thousands of jobs created. we would have more affordable fuel and food and electricity. the federal government would get over $1 trillion in revenues without raising taxes. that is the plan.

over but youou go still did not really answer the question. we have to have a balanced approach to deal with the budget. you cannot get to balance through imbalance. here is the math -- $3.60 trillion every year in spending, $3 trillion in revenue. we have to close the gap. george's approach is to close it by making the bush tax cut permanent, even for the wealthiest. but that the gap is even bigger. then close the gap through dramatic cuts -- education, defense, medicare. you will cut deeply in the things that really matter. i have a different approach. start by letting the bush tax cuts expire as planned and as promised for incomes over $500,000 a year. that is a compromise between the democratic position of expiring over to under $50,000 and the republican position to make them permanent. -- $250,000 i and the only

governor to leave office with a small budget and when i started. george's budget went up 35% in four years. i know how to make cuts. i also know this -- an all-cut approach as georgia's proposes, he pledged allegiance to a grover norquist not to raise taxes. the all-cut approach that starts with extending tax cuts to the wealthy would hurt our economy and heard virginia. >> to make it clear for all the viewers -- i think we ought to reform the entire tax code in washington. the bush tax codes averted recession and help create 7 million new jobs. what i would like to do is a tax cut that is more simple and fair. that is the basis of a bipartisan agreement.

i advocate 20% -- some democrats and republicans advocate higher. i think we can get around the table and come to an agreement and have a comprehensive tax reform. he talks about added spending as governor -- we cut the size of state government and cut taxes. we promoted virginia for economic development, and over 300,000 jobs were created. that is how this is a prime example of the differences we have. he thinks higher taxes are the answer. i think more jobs, hiring, investment is the answer. virginia is a perfect object lesson of tim's years as governor, where more than 100,000 jobs lost, and while i was governor, we cut taxes, you talk about results, those matter. >> a question was fairly specific. will you vote for the simpson- bowles plan as is. i interpret your answer as a no?

>> it should be brought up and work its way through the legislative process. >> would you support it as is? >> i would supported the way i propose our ideas. [laughter] >> yes or no? >> i would amend it. >> i would support a plan that makes $2 or $3 a cut for every dollar of revenues. that is the way i govern. the particular plan, there are a couple things about and i do not like. i do not think they need to reform social security. it is not contributing to the deficit. >> you are hearing laughter because they are confused. is it no and no? >> as is, we are both saying no. [laughter] >> we have agreement. you will get to ask each other a question in this segment. you will ask a question of senator allen.

>> when you were in the senate, one of the votes cast was to begin the privatization of security, giving folks an opportunity to give their contributions into private accounts. that would weaken the solvency for the current retirees and left to the camp for bidders at the mercy of what happened in the market. our fiscal cliff collapsed two years later, it would have hurt them. would you now agree that was a bad idea? the cost of social security should never be privatized? >> it is important we recognize such as security needs to be solvent for current recipients as well as future generations.

i would never for someone. -- force someone. employers pay into it. if people want social security, which most do, that should be the case. we need to make some reforms in social security. the age of eligibility can be increased gradually for those who are younger than age 50, currently or soon on social security, leave it the same. there should be an income adjustment. that would help the solvency. another thing that will help is jobs. the most recent forecast, it will go bankrupt three years earlier. you dealt in -- delve into why, fewer people are working. people to provide for themselves and their retiring years. it is why i think people ought to be able to use their social security funds or 401k's so they do not have to lose their homes

and lose all their assets in the events they need assistant living later in life. i want to make sure social security is solvent for future generations. >> what george did not defend his earlier votes, and he continues to believe it is a good idea. i will battle against the privatization of social security to and nail. i will tell you why. social security since the 1930's has been designed to help seniors not live in poverty. workers chip in, out of their paycheck, to support a dignified retirement for the people who raised them, their parents, grandparents, people who coached them little league or talk and sunday school.

if you allow people to not ship into the social security trust fund but set up their own account, those retirees who are counting on that, have a trust fund that goes insolvent very fast and their retirement is jeopardized. people month -- putting money in their own accounts have a potential problem, too. we saw that when the stock market collapsed. maybe you are a good investor but people do crazy things and they cause a at -- an international meltdown. what you count on for retirement is gone. the social security program passed in the 1930's has enabled american seniors live not in poverty. options for retirement, that is fantastic. we should never privatize social security and give people to keep it accounts -- in accounts and jeopardize the solvency for the retirement of seniors. >> i want to focus my question on jobs.

tim, you supported 3 obama initiatives that our job killers. energy taxes that could cause 66,000 jobs in virginia. obamacare. the devastating for small businesses. and the sequestration deal which is threatening to hundred thousand jobs in virginia. why did you support president obama on these job killing proposals? >> let's talk about jobs. let's compare our records. you were proud as your record as governor, but you were governor during the clinton years, the biggest expansion of the american economy since world war ii. i was governor during the deepest recession since the 1930's. that was largely promoted by policies you voted for when your in senate. was the unemployment rate higher when i was governor? it was in one measure. let's measure fairly. let's look at fate -- states and rank them best to worst. virginia was doing better, we were nearer to the top in terms

of unemployment when i was governor than when you were governor. it was harder to manage during tough times and i was doing it. on the three points you mentioned, i did support a notion to try to control -- you have a different view on signs. you cannot believe human activity of the climate. i think human activity affects climate. we have to find strategies to stop over using our car been used. we can do it. i work hard to permit a plan that shows there is a cleaner future for coal. that is what i will promote. on the affordable care act, i like seniors having free preventative care. i like 21 to 26 year olds on their family policies. on sequester, i know my time is up. i will save that. >> can thank you. [laughter]

>> do i get a rebuttal? >> yes. >> he admitted he did not answer the whole question. there were tough times when i came in as governor as well. my predecessor had tough times, as well. what we did is not raise taxes. tim, you try to raise taxes on working women, seniors, and people earning as little as $70,000 a year. -- as $17,000 a year. that does not help make the state more attractive for business. we do have a record. a record of jobs for virginia. you mentioned the same facility. under the regulations i oppose, and if i am in the united states senate, i will stop those -- stop those regulations, by those regulations, that plan could not be permanent.

it is a clean coal facility. is a great facility. it is enormous. the reality is the regulations that the obama administration is proposing would not allow that plan to be built under those regulations. you say, do not fight those. do you know what that will mean? higher electricity and fuel costs, and fool -- and food costs. the people in washington would be proposing this tax that would hurt lower-income people the most. other countries, china, india, russia, brazil, none of them would propose that on their own citizens. it is the kind of approach that american enterprise systems not have to have on them, nor working families. >> thank you. i apologize for skipping your rebuttal the next question goes

to tim kaine. you have mentioned that already. you noted president obama us plan calls for them to -- obama's plan. are you saying you would not, under any circumstance, vote for an obama budget or an obama bill that came to the senate that says we will cut the bush tax cuts and let them expire? >> i think my proposal is the right proposal. i will not vote for of bills that i know have a no chance of passing the house. you saw what happened this summer. they let the bush tax cuts expire over 250,000. full knowledge nothing would happen. the house passed their bill to make the task cuts permanent.

they sent it to the senate with full knowledge it would not happen. the time for the no compromise positions is over. we need a compromise. a year ago, i put on the table this compromise. we have to find one, the bush tax cuts are set to expire, and if we do it right, we can avoid defense cuts. if we let the tax cuts expire over $500,000, that raises $500 billion of revenue over 10 years. if we do not come up with a solution, let the bush tax cuts expire, there is have a solution. fix this medicare problem george voted for he would not take back and allow negotiation for prescription drug prices. another $240 billion. let's take away the subsidies that the oil company's debt. they make $135 billion in profits last year. why are we giving them

subsidies? now we have a compromise that, instead of $1 trillion of sequester cuts, we have to find $235 billion in savings over 10 years. that is the kind of compromise that can be supported by democrats and republicans. now is the time for compromise. we can do it for the good of the virginia economy and our defense industry. >> tim talks about raising taxes again. i think it is wrong. to be using the 200 men and women -- 200,000 men and women in virginia whose jobs are threatened by the sequestration deal that i opposed and tim set in debates is the right thing to do. they should not be used as a political bargaining chip to raise taxes on small businesses. president obama said in 2009 that raising taxes in a weak economy is a bad idea. the growth in our economy and gdp is worth -- worst now than it was then. it will always be more harmful. in a recent debate, he said he would consider everyone pay more taxes.

that is consistent with him trying to raise state taxes on people earning as little as $70,000 a year. you are wondering, do you realize folks out there are hurting? people cannot afford any more taxes. people are paying $30 or more more every time they fill up with gasoline compared to january 2009. you start blasting oil companies, and you were ultimately pay the price. it will go on to consumers. i know someone who could only afford $20 of gas. i asked her if she could fill up and get it all. it would cost to $37 more. what would you do? she said, i could provide for my family. these are real people in the real world being hurt. the last thing we need is more taxes on working families.

>> george, you stand -- he started by answering i am trying to hold the military hostage to raise taxes. you and i are both fathers. this is very personal to me. [indiscernible] i have a son who has started a career in the military. i will not do things that will hurt the troops or defense. i will not do things hurting veterans. our veterans services budget doubles because we have work to do to make sure veterans were protected. i was commander in chief of the virginia guard during two wars, and i went to iraq and afghanistan to see those men and women. i went to homecomings and funerals and wakes. i will not do anything that will hurt the defense.

i recruited contractors to move to virginia. i put a plan on the table, very specific, a compromise, that will avoid defense cuts. you're only plan is to appeal the affordable care act, which would increase the deficit, then require more cuts. >> this next question, it goes to you, senator. you said we ought to repeal and replace obamacare. in the same answer, he said in the last debate one of the most popular provisions in this law should be kept. people should stay on their parents' health care until they are 26. that is popular but it has to be paid for. specifically, how would you keep the popular provisions of the health care reform what if you repeal the rest of the law. >> let me finish up on what tim said on the previous and i will get to this. it is very important. i will tell you about holding hostage men and women. >> we are not talking about hostages, george. you used the word hostage. [laughter]

we are not talking about hostages. >> let me use the words of the secretary of defense, a democrat. he says if this sequestration deal, it would be devastating to our military. i cannot imagine myself voting for something that could be so potentially harmful to our military readiness and jobs in virginia. you supported it and said it is the right thing to do. you cannot avoid that the secretary offense -- of defense said this would be devastating. if you listen to defense contractors, it has already affected -- on health care reforms, i think it is better for young people to be on the apparents' policies. -- on their parents' policies.

i think we ought to allow small businesses to band together across state lines and get more competition and afford health care. i think we ought to be promoting affordable, reliable, health saving accounts that people can take from job to job. >> governor. >> we do not need a panel making decisions. >> thank you. saying someone will hold the military hostages is like saying someone is anti-virginian if they support the president of the united states. is the kind of rhetoric we need less of, not more of in washington. on the sequestration issue, let's go back to the deal as it was done. in the summer of 2011, a deal was needed to avert an international fiscal collapse. the deal was not pretty. the alternative was america would default on its credit for the first time ever and we would have an international fiscal collapse.

that is why this sequestration deal, although it was not pretty, was supported by john banner, by our governor, a veteran, by president obama, the u.s. chamber of commerce, and by everyone in congress trying to find a compromise. george allen stood outside and shook his fists and said, we do not want to support a compromise. we did not the fault, we got a bond downgrade. the reason for the downgrade was not the deal. it was that so many leaders light george were willing to stand up and play chicken with american finances. we can avoid these defense cuts. we can only avoid them with a compromise. the only compromise you have heard is repealed be affordable care act. it has already been tried. the has been a two-year litigation in the supreme court. that is not a compromise. >> could you address the mass of how you pay for it if you repeal?

>> if we are talking about sequestration, let me point out what we need. [laughter] we need spending caps. a balanced budget amendment. as far as averting these cuts, the house of representatives and others passed a measure in may to avert these cuts. went over the senate. what have they done? nothing. they have not passed a budget in over 3.5 years. i will tell you a place where we are spending these cuts. i do not think the members of congress should get paid if they do not get the bills done on time. they are passing these continuing resolutions that call on for months. the health saving accounts and employers being able to ban together businesses, there is no great cost to that. people are taking care of

themselves. businesses are getting more affordable insurance. as far as 26-year-old on parents' policy, mom and dad will be paying for but it is better for your children to be covered then not covered. >> this goes to mr. kaine. >> with the recent attack of our consulate in libya, and the admission from our administration that this was an act of terrorism, as the obama administration, in your opinion, overstated the degree to which it has slowed or dismantled al qaeda? >> i think al qaeda remains a very serious concern in different parts of the world. we went to afghanistan to wipe out bin laden and al qaeda. i am happy we have done it. virginia troops are not being deployed so repeatedly now that we are out of iraq and we have been laudable -- bin laden and al qaeda. we need to take the fight to al qaeda where ever they are, yemen, africa, we have to continue to go after al qaeda until all the leadership is gone.

the incident in libya was a very troubling one. we need to get to the bottom of it. to find out everything that happened and everything we can find. i have been asked about foreign debates. when something like this happens, it reminds me of how we work together in the aftermath of that horrible tragedy to get answers and make improvements. you find what happened, you find everything that has been done differently. what virginia tech has done on campus safety has not only made this campus safer, but it has served as a model for other campuses. we need to take the same model with respect to the attacks on libya. get to the bottom of it. find out what went wrong. then do what we need to do to protect our personnel across the globe. the other thing we can do is the house budget will reduce spending for security.

i do not think reducing spending on security is a good idea. that is something we have to fix going forward. >> this is an example of what has happened to our consulate and our ambassador being killed and our embassies throughout the middle east, north africa, brought the world, being attacked. it is why the sequestration deal is not only wrong but it is dangerous. we have to find who was involved in libya. my view is any country that does not protect our embassies ought not get a tennis -- a penny of american taxpayer dollars. $450 billion going to egypt and the muslim brotherhood. i do not think that money ought to be sent because they proved they will be working with us against terrorism, by their trading with our good friend in the middle east, israel, and we need to be unified with israel, shoulder to shoulder with israel, preventing iran from getting nuclear weapon capability.

one of the big missed opportunities of this president being quiet when they had the spring uprising and the resolution -- the revolution in iran. i remember ronald reagan said -- he called the soviet union the evil empire. we should have at least said those in iran who wanted a free and just society. the president kept quiet. i do agree with tim kaine on the issue of virginia tech. everyone should be commended by that response and all campuses are more say. i would like to ask you do you think we ought to be sending -- spending $450 billion? >> in my response, george talked more about sequestered. i want to do the same. we put two very clear visions on

the table. we agree we have to stop defense cuts. we have two plans. i say we can avoid defense cuts and keep our economy strong buy these simple three steps. bush tax cuts expire. reform medicare. take tax subsidies away from oil companies. george's answer to the sequester is to be against it but his only answer is to repeal the affordable care act, which is not a compromise and it makes the deficit worse. i think the balance the budget on both sides of the balance sheet. i reduced taxes, business taxes, utility taxes, real-estate taxes. i took tens of thousands of low income virginians off the income tax rolls. if we need more revenue for the good of the country and defense, i will ask for it. i have the experience of cutting spending, something george allen has never done as senator kerry

-- as governor or senator. >> thank you for asking those questions. by the toss of the coin, we have determined 90 seconds for senator allen. >> thank you for watching this debate. you will determine the direction of our country. we do have two different missions of the future of our country. we have earned various endorsements. i have been endorsed by the u.s. chamber of commerce. virginia voters, veterans vision, the nra. the promise of american dream is at stake right now. if you envision a better future than what we have to endure these days, i invite you to join with us in this campaign.

i do not care to talk about republicans versus democrats. everybody who uses electricity should be on our side. anybody who drives a car, unless you like paying $30 more when you fill up, ought to be on albert side. if you think health care decisions ought to made by doctors and physicians and not a panel, you should be on our side. if you pay taxes, you ought to be with us. if you have a child or want to get work, you should be on our side. our idea is to create more job opportunities. if you care about the future of your children and grandchildren, we welcome you to our side. i ask you all to examine the records of the two candidates closely. if you care about virginia and jobs, i respectfully ask you to allow me to work for you in washington where my job will be to protect yours. >> one of my favorites scriptures is psalm 133, how wonderful it is one brothers are in unity.

we say the pledge of allegiance every day to one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all. there is a lot of unity words there. the problem is while we can act that way, none is more apparent than here in virginia tech in 2011 -- 2007, the way the community pulled together, you did not have to be on campus. you could see it on the tv screens something special was happening. our congress does not know what unity is. we have to put people in congress to do. when john warner, republican, was proud, he led a gang of 14, sediment -- seven democrats and seven republicans. george allen was in the senate. he did not joined a gang of 14. he ridiculed senator warner's efforts and said we do not need republicans to compromise.

there is a new effort. the gang of six. democrats and republicans work together. i have pledged to join that gang if i join the senate. george allen has made pledges that would be contrary to everything we are trying to do to come together. he says thing that -- things like kaine does not support virginia because he supports the president. we need less of that in washington and more people who can build bridges. >> chairman, thank you. let's give them a round of applause. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

>> thank you to our audience. [applause] again, thank you for holding this off to the end. we have a few seconds left. a feisty debate but a formidable one. i commend you both for dedicating your careers and lives to public service here in virginia and to advance in the issues you care the most about. let me thank my partner and all of this and the wsls team to pull this all together. i would say you are the most professional, dedicated, passionate group. i am really honored to work with you every day. this would not have been possible without virginia tech. they did a tremendous job and 8 -- they were a great partner. thank you at home for watching and to the audience for participating. with that, do not forget to vote on november 6. good night.

>> see the presidential debate monday night, live on c-span, c- span radio, and online at c- span.org. next, president obama and mitt romney cracked jokes at the annual al smith dinner in new york. then bill clinton campaigned for president obama in ohio. then debate between the u.s. senate candidates in wisconsin. >> i had made mistakes in my personal finances. but i made those mistakes and i fixed them. the fact is that everybody that has looked into the valley -- allegations of linda mcmahon have said they are completely false. every independent financial expert. what makes a lot of these attack

ads that we have seen from linda mcmahon especially troubling is the fact that during the exact same time, she still had not paid back the $1 million that she owed her creditors former bankruptcy 36 years ago. >> i agree we need to talk about the issues in this state. an occasional financial slip is not what we are talking about here. you need to be honest with the people of connecticut. you need to be honest about your special interest loans, your attended to in washington. those are issues that are important to the people of connecticut. they want to know, can they trust the congressmen are the center they are sending to washington to represent them? i have had a career of creating jobs that contributed to the economy here in connecticut. >> follow the key house, senate,

and governor's races on c-span, c-span3 deal and at c- span.org/campaigns2012. >> i watch two different types of programs on c-span. i find myself watching your convention and old debate. i remember being 8 years old and wanting an old richard nixon's speech or harry truman. for a political junkie like me, that it's great. the fact that you focus on a wide range of public policy issues, there's something for at the body, whether you are interested in housing policy, something with the economy. i like you cover top. -- cover it. >> president obama and mitt

romney spoke tonight at the al smith dinner in new york, a catholic charity fundraiser that gives presidential candidates the opportunity to make fun about themselves and joke about the campaign. this is about 40 minutes. >> thank you. i hope you all enjoy your meal. i would like to say that dr. henry kissinger is up here on the stage. [applause] he told me if his -- it is his favorite bidder. -- dinner. we have many distinguished guests tonight. governor cuomo is here. [applause] the governor is working on some

material for his 2016 al smith dinner speech. i noticed he gets closer to the podium every years. it's like jaws. [laughter] chuck schumer is here. there was a story in the paper about actively playing matchmaker among his staff. 12 marriages have resulted. it is safe to say that chuck has stopped trying to work across the aisle. he is pushing them down the aisle. congratulations. not for the matchmaking, but getting attention from one of the sections in the new york times that does not already cover you -- the wedding secion.

chris matthews is here. as you know. [applause] >> i am sorry, he just laughed. the motto is lean forward. if you leave and for why he is talking, you will probably go back. -- lean forward while he is talking, you will probably go deaf. and of course i want to raise my glass to your mayor, bloomberg. [applause] a lot of people criticized the mayor's decision to ban large, sugary drinks. this is an issue of personal

significance to the mayor. the couple years ago, he almost drowned in a big gulp. [laughter] amount is a poem or there, your eminence? -- how is it going over there, your eminence? last and not least, we have president obama and governor mitt romney. you both look so dashing. or as you call it, governor, business casual. [laughter] i have been doing this for 25 years. i never run out of good things to say about al smith. not because i'm secretly talking about myself in the third person. my great-grandfather got into politics for a very simple

reason -- he likes people. rich, poor, democrat, republican. al smith was a friend to all. [applause] throughout his public life, he was a champion of the worker, an advocate for the needy. and a plain-spoken voice. as you all know, my great- grandfather was the first catholic nominee for president. and mitt romney, the first mormon nominated for president. [applause] by great-grandfather and mitt romney have other things in common. for example, they both campaign

for governor. as democrats. [laughter] their biggest adversaries were successful businessman. for my great-grandfather, it was herbert hoover. for mitt romney, it was mitt romney. [laughter] it is no secret that governor romney is a very wealthy man. he is also a very generous man. every year, he gives at least 10% of his income to charity. [applause] not so fast. [laughter] the charity is the federal government. [laughter]

seriously, i have seen governor romney's de generosity to his church. -- deep generosity to his churhc. -- church. i must confess. we invited him here to convert. [laughter] [applause] really, governor, your father was from mexico and you have five kids. are you sure you are not catholic? [applause] mr. president, you are not getting a free pass tonight. we arcs -- we are excited to have you here tonight. almost as excited as we were in 2008.

[laughter] although the catholic church does so president obama a. debt of gratitude. jesus taught us if it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of debt -- of heaven. say what you will about the economy. mr. president, it will be a lot easier for a lot more people to get into heaven. [applause] we recognize you have some challenges this year. it is never could when your opponent has produced more sums than you have jobs. -- more sons than you produced

jobs,. . i am pretty sure that number is accurate. paul ryan gave it to me. he is such an effective attack dog, i am worried governor romney might strap him on the roof of a car. of course, president obama wishes he could put joe biden on a car, too. the amtrak quiet car. [laughter] both got us a ride are makig t -- both are making this a historic election is to have a roman catholic on both sides of the ballot. that is worth applauding. [applause] ladies and gentlemen, we get to

hear from a man. offrom tghhe man at the top the ticket. i am pleased to present the 2012 republican nominee for president, governor mitt romney. [applause] >> thank you. thank you so much. your eminence, cardinal, mr. president, governor, mayor bloomberg, senator, al and ann smith, thank you for your invitation and your warm welcome.

i appreciate your friendship very much. thank you. [applause] al, you are right. a campaign can require a lot of wardrobe changes. cuisines in the morning, suits -- blue jeans in the morning, suits for a lunch fund raiser, a sport coat for dinner. it is nice to finally relax and wear what we wear around the house. [applause] i am glad to join in this tradition. i am pleased the president is here. we were chatting this evening. it was like tuesday night never happened. [laughter] i was hoping the president would

bring joe biden along this evening because he will laugh at anything. [applause] this is not a night for serious politics. it's nice to see president obama and the cardinal despite their differences. i am sure the cardinal has no hard feelings and we will get an indication of that to see if the president's wine will turn into water. or if my water turns into wine. i am pleased to see the governor, already being talked about to be high office.

he may be getting ahead of himself. the man has put in one term as a governor, he has a father who was a governor, and he thinks that was enough to run for president. [laughter] [applause] we are down to the final months of the president's term. [laughter] [applause] as president obama surveys the waldorf banquet room with everybody in white ties, you have to wonder what he is thinking. so little time, so much to redistribute. [applause]

do not be surprised if the president mentions the monthly jobs support where there was a slight improvement in the numbers. he knows how to seize the moment. the already has a compelling new campaign slogan. you are better off now than you were four weeks ago. [applause] with or without all the dignitaries that are here, the al smith had dinner lives up to its billing. usually when i get invited to dinners like this, i am the designated driver. [applause] your kind hospitality tonight gives me a chance to convey my deep and long held respect for the catholic church. i have special admiration for the apostle saint peter, to whom it was set up on this rock i will build my church. the story is all the more inspiring when you consider he has so many skeptics at the time who would say, if you have a church, you did not build that. [applause]

only 19 days ago until the finish line. the campaign is full of surprises and the debates are exciting. we had a very fun debate the other night. candy crowley was there. people are curious how we prepare for the debates. here is what i do. first, refrained from out -- refrain from alcohol. -- for 65 years before the debate. then find a straw man, and merciless attack. big bird did not see it coming. in the spirit of sesame street, the president's remarks tonight are brought to you by a letter "o" and the number $16 trillion. [applause]

the campaign will be grueling, exhausting, and president obama are each lucky to have one person always in our corners, someone we can lean on, someone who is a comforting presence. i have my beautiful wife, he has bill clinton. [applause] we got a big dose of weeks biden charm. i heard from the federal election commission. from now on, whenever he appears on tv, there is a recording of me afterwards that says, "i am mitt romney, and i approve this message." [laughter] rules of fairness. i never suggest the press is biased.

they have their job to do and i have mine to do. my job is to lay out a positive vision for the future of the country and their job is to make sure nobody finds out about it. [applause] let's just say some in the media have a certain way of looking at things. when i suddenly pulled ahead in the major polls, the headlines were, obama is leading from behind. [laughter] i have already seen early reports from tonight's dinner. headline, obama and priced by catholics. romney dodges rich people.

-- obama embraced by catholics. romney dines with rich people. [laughter] [applause] the president has put his own stamp on relations with the church. there have been awkward moments. like when the president pulled pope benedict aside. he said, whatever the problem is, just blame it on john paul ii. [applause] the president has found a way to take a sting out of the mandates for the church. they will be in latin. we have fundamental unsound principles that guide us. he and i feel the pressures and tensions of a close contest. it would be easy to let a

healthy competition give way to the personal and petty. fortunately, we do not carry the burden of disliking each other. the president has some very fine and gracious moments. our 44th president has many gifts and a beautiful family that would make any man proud. [applause] in our country, you can oppose someone in politics and make a competent case against their politics without any ill will. that is how it is for me. there is more to life and politics. you show this in the work you do. the work goes on day in and day out in this organization.

you answer with calmed, and willing hearts. in service for poor and care for the sick. to help an innocent child who is going to be born. [applause] i do not presume to have all of your support. on a night like this, i will not ask for it. you can be certain that in the great causes of compassion that you come together to embrace, that i stand proudly with you as an ally and friend. god bless you all and god bless the united states of america. thank you. [applause]

>> thank you very much. ladies and gentlemen, there is only one way to introduce our next speaker. the president of united states of america, barack obama. [applause] >> thank you. thank you. thank you so much. thank you. everyone please take a seat or clint eastwood would yell at them.

[laughter] thank you to al, your eminence, governor, senator, mayor bloomberg, all the distinguished guests here. in less than three weeks, voters will decide this incredibly important election. it begs the question, what are we doing here? [laughter] new yorkers also have a big choice to make. you have to decide which one of us you want holding up traffic for the next four years. [laughter]

tonight, i am here with a man whose father was a popular governor who could very well be president someday. i am hoping it is andrew cuomo. [applause] this is the third time governor romney and i have met recently. as some of you have noticed, i have a lot more energy in our second ave. -- in our second debate. i felt well rested after a nice long that i had during the first debate. -- long nap i had during the first debate. [laughter] [applause] it turns out millions of americans focused on the second debate, who did not focus on the first debate. i happen to be one of them. i want to apologize to chris matthews.

four years ago, i gave him a hit to the leg. -- a thrill up his leg. this time, i gave him a stroke. there are a lot of things i learned from that experience. for example, i learned that there are worse off -- worse things that can happen to you on your anniversary than forgetting to buy a gift. when or lose, this is my last political campaign. i am trying to drink it all in. unfortunately, mayor bloomberg will only let me have 16 ounces. [laughter] that is okay. i am still having -- making the most of my time. i went shopping in the stores in midtown. i understand governor romney

went shopping for some stores in midtown. [laughter] [applause] it brought back great memories. some of you know i went to school here in new york. i had a wonderful experience here. [applause] i used to love wafting through central park -- walking through central park, going to yankee stadium. you really did not build that. i hope everybody is aware of that. [applause] it has been four years since i was last at the al smith dinner. things have changed. i have heard people say i am not as young as i used to be. where is that golden smile? where is that pep in your step? i say, settle down, joe, i am trying to run a campaign. [applause]

-- to run a cabinet meeting. he does smile when he says it. tomorrow, it is back to campaigning. the cities across our great country. i hear the same thing everywhere i go. we were hoping to see michelle. i have to admit it can be a grind. sometimes it feels like this race has drag on forever. paul ryan assured me we have only been running for two hours and 50 something minutes. [applause] the economy is on everybody's minds. unemployment is at the lowest level since i took office.

i do not have a joke here. i thought it would be useful to remind everybody. [laughter] [applause] we are getting to that time where folks are making up their minds. the other day, i was endorsed. that is a big relief. -- honey boo boo endorsed me, so that's a big relief. [laughter] tonight is not about the disagreements governor romney and i may have. it is what we have in common, beginning with our unusual names. mitt is his middle name. i wish i could use my middle name. [applause] [laughter] even though we are enjoying ourselves tonight, we are thinking ahead to our final debate on monday. i am hoping governor romney and i will have a chance to answer the question on the minds of millions of americans watching at home. is this happening again?