for medicare or medicaid. more doctors are not taking medicare patients. host: jerry's on the phone. your take on the debate tonight, jerry? caller: as i say see it, most people don't know what went on with the war with bush, that the effects like in other country and people that was caught in the middle, the innocent, that wasn't a part of the war on either side and we seen children die and get killed and we became hated because of that because bush went in there with an iron fist because of what osama did and then we just jumped right on this other country and it made turmoil and caused a lot of hatred and people to dislike us. and i think obama's coming in with a hand but with a soft

hand and when you look at the way our situation is in jobs and stuff, it's like for the last four years you -- you can't expect for us to come right out of -- of what we went through, through bush and expect for all these jobs to be there especially when jobs are being sent across seas for the man to make more money -- host: jerry, i'll stop you there. thanks for the calls. we're live all day tomorrow as the candidates hit the campaign trail. a reminder, the president in delray beach, florida. and tomorrow afternoon, governor romney joined by paul ryan. they'll be campaigning in henderson, nevada.

you can continue the conversation on our facebook page and weigh in on who you think won the debate. later this morning washington journal at 4:00 a.m. eastern time. you can share the debate clips tonight and through the next couple of days on c-span's debate hub, all available on c-span.org. and now from earlier this evening, lynn university and the debate that focused the presidential election. c-span's coverage continuing overnight.

>> good evening from the campus of lynn university here in boca raton, florida. this is the fourth and last debate of the 2012 campaign brought to you by the commission on presidential debates. this one's on foreign policy. i'm bob schieffer of cbs news. the questions are mine. and i have not shared them be -- with the candidates or their aids. the audience has taken silence, no applause except right now when we welcome president barack obama and governor mitt romney. [cheers and applause]

>> gentlemen, your campaigns have agreed to certain rules and they've asked me to divide the evening into segments. i'll pose a question at the beginning of each segment. you will each have two minutes to respond and then we will have a general discussion until we move to the next segment. tonight's debate as both of you know comes on the 50th anniversary of the night that president kennedy told the world that the soviet union had installed nuclear missiles in cuba, perhaps the closest we've ever come to a nuclear war. and it is a sobering reminder that every president faces at some point an unexpected threat to our national security from abroad. so let's begin. the first segment is the

challenge of a changing middle east and the new face of terrorism. i'm going to put this into two segments so you'll have two topic questions within this one segment on the subject. the first question and it concerns libya, the controversy over what happened there continues. four americans are dead including an american ambassadors. questions remained, what caused it? was it an intelligence failure? was there an attempt to mislead people about what really happened? governor romney, you said this was an example of an american policy in the middle east that is unraveling before our very eyes. i'd like to hear each of you give your thoughts on that. governor romney, you won the toss. you go first. >> thank you bob. and thank you for agreeing to moderate this debate.

thank you to lynn university for welcoming us here and mr. president it's good to be with you today. we were together a little earlier. this is obviously an area of great concern to the entire world and to america in particular which is to see a complete change in the structure and the -- the environment in the middle east. with the arab spring came a dreal of hope, -- a great deal of hope and hope in the economic life. but instead we've seen nation after nation a number of disturbing events. in syria, 30,000 civilians having been killed by the military. we see in libya an attack, i think we know by terrorists of some kind against our people there. four people dead. our hearts and minds go to

them. mali has been taken over by al-qaeda type individuals. we have an egypt, a muslim brotherhood president. so what we're seeing is a pretty dramatic reversal in the kind of hopes we had for that region. the greatest threat of all is iran, four years closer to a nuclear weapon. we're going to have to recognize -- i congratulate the president on taking out osama bin laden and going after the leadership in al-qaeda. we're going to have to take a robust strategy to help the world of islam and other parts of the world reject this radical, violent extremism. it's certainly not on the run. it's certainly not in hiding. this is a group that's involved in 10 or 12 countries and it presents an enormous threat to our friends, to the world, to america long-term. and we must have a

comprehensive strategy to help reject this kind of extremism. >> mr. president? >> well, my first job as commander in chief is to keep the american people safe. and that's what we've done over the last four years. we ended the war on iraq. yes focused our attention on those who -- refocused our attention on those who actually killed us. al-qaeda's core has been dismated. we're in a transition, making sure that afghans take responsibility for their own security. and that allows us also to rebuild alliances and make friends around the world to combat future threats. now, with respect to libya, as i indicated in the last debate, when we received that phone call, i immediately made sure that number one, we did everything we could to secure those americans who were still in harm's way. number two, that we would

investigate exactly what hand. and number three, most importantly that we would go after those who killed americans and we would bring them to justice. and that's exactly what we're going to do but it's important to step back and think about what happened in libya. keep in mind that i and americans took leadership in organizing an international coalition that made sure that we were able to without putting troops on the ground at the cost of what we spent in two weeks in iraq, liberate a country that had been under the yolk of leadership for four years, got rid of a december pit who had killed dispate who had killed americans and you had thousands of libyans marriaging and saying -- marching and saying that america's our friend. that represents the opportunity we have to take advantage of. governor romney, i'm glad that you agree that we have been successful in going after

al-qaeda. but i have to tell you that your strategy previously has been one that has been all over the map and is not designed to keep americans safe or to build on the opportunitys that exist in the middle east. >> well, my strategy's pretty straightforward which is to go after the bad guys. to make sure we do the very best to interrupt them, to kill them, to take them out of the picture. but my strategy is broader than that. that's important, of course. but the key that we're going to have to pursue is to get the muslim world to reject extremism. we don't want another iraq. we don't want another afghanistan. the right course is to make sure we go after the people who are the leaders of these various anti-american groups and these jihadists but also help the muslim world. how do we do that? a group of arab scholars organized by the u.n. to look at how we can can help the world reject these terrorists and the answer they came up

with is this. we should key our foreign aid our direct foreign investment and out of our friends we should coordinate to make sure we get more economic development. number two, better education. number three, gender equality. number four, the rule of law. we have to help these nations create civil societies. but what's been happening over the last couple of years as if we watched the tumult in the middle east, the rising tide of chaos, you see al-qaeda rushing in, you see other jihadists rushing in. it's wonderful that libya seems to be making progress. but next door, we have egypt, with 80 million in population. we want to see progress with having north mali taken over by al-qaeda. with syria continuing assad to murder his own people.

this is a region of tumult and iran on the path to a nuclear weapon. >> but let's give the president a chance. >> governor, i'm glad that you recognize that al-qaeda's a threat. you said russia. not al-qaeda. you said rush. the 1980's are calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the cold war has been over for 20 years. governor, when it comes to our foreign policy, you seem to want to import the foreign poll soifs the 1980's just like the social poll soifs the 1950's and the economic policies of the 1920's. you say that you're not interested in duplicating what happened in iraq. but just a few weeks ago you said you think we should have more troops in iraq right now. and the challenge we have -- i know you haven't been in a position to actually execute foreign policy. but every time you've offered an opinion you've been wrong. you said we should have gone

into iraq despite the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction. you said that we should still have troops in iraq to this day. you indicated that we shouldn't be passing nuclear treaties with russia despite the fact that 71 senators, democrats and republicans voted for it. you've said that first we should not have a time line in afghanistan. then you said we should. now you say maybe for defense which means not only were you wrong but you were confusing in sending mixed messages to our troops and our allies. what we need to do with respect to the middle east is strong, steady leadership, not wrong and reckless leadership that is all over the map. and unfortunately, that's the kind of opinions that you've offered throughout this campaign and it's not a recipe for american strength or keeping america safe. >> i'm going to end a couple of

minutes here to give you a chance to respond. >> well, of course, i don't concur with the president about my own record. they don't happen to be accurate. but i can say this, that we're talking about the middle east and how to help the middle east to reject the kind of terrorists we're seeing and the rising tumult and confusing. attacking me is not an agenda. attacking me does not talk about the challenges in the middle east and take advantage of the opportunity there and stem the tide of this violence. but i'll respond to a couple of things that you mentioned. first of all, russia i indicated a geopolitical foe and i said in the same paragraph and iran is the biggest security threat we face. russia battles us in the u.n. i'm not going to wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to russia or mr. putin and i won't say to him i'll

give him more flexibility. after theer threx i'll give him more backbone. you and i agree we should have been more status -- you didn't? >> what i would not have done is left 10,000 groups in iraq that would tie us down. that certainly would not help us in the middle east. >> i'm sorry -- >> there was an effort on the part of the president to have a status of troops and i concurred and i said we should have some number of troops. that was something i con occurred with. that was your posture. i thought there should have been more troops. >> this is just a few weeks ago you indicated that there should have been more troops in iraq. >> i indicated that you failed to put in place a forces agreement at the end of -- >> governor, here's one thing -- here's one thing i've learned as commander in chief, you've got to be clear both to our allies an our enemies about

where you stand and what you mean. you just gave a speech a few weeks ago in what you said we should still have troops in iraq. that is not a recipe for making sure that we are taking advantage of the opportunities and meeting the challenge of the middle east. now, it is absolutely true that we cannot just meet these challenges militarily. so what i've done throughout my presidency and will continue to do is number one, make sure that these countries are supporting our counter terrorism efforts. number two, make sure that they are standing by our interests and israel's security because it is our true friend and our biggest ally in the region. number three, we have to protect religious minorities and women because these countries can't develop unless all the population is developing. number four, we do have to develop their economic capabilities. number five, the other thing that we have to do is recognize that we can't continue to do

nation building in these regions. part of american policy to make sure we're doing nation building here at home. that will help us maintain the kind of leadership that we need. >> let me interject a second topic question in this segment about the middle east. and that is, you both mentioned -- alluded to this and that is syria. the war in syria has spilled over into lebanon. we have more than 100 people that were killed there in a bo. there were demonstrations there. eight people dead. mr. president, it's been more than a year since you saw -- you told assad he had to go. since then 30,000 syrians have died. we've had 300,000 refugees. the war goes on. he's still there. should we reassess our policy and see if we can find a better way to influence events there or is that even possible? you go first, sir. >> what we've done is organize

the international community saying assad has to go. we've mobilized sanctions against that government. we have made sure that they are isolated. we have provide humanitarian assistance and we are helping the opposition organize and we're particularly interested in making sure that we're organizing the moderate forces inside of syria. but ultimately syrians are going to have to determine their own future. and so everything we're doing, we're doing in consul twation our partners in the region including israel which obviously has a huge interest in seing what happens in syria, coordinating with turkey and other countries in the region that have a great interest in this. what we're seeing taking place in syria is heartbreaking. that's why we are going to do everything we can to make sure we are helping the opposition. but we also have to recognize that, you know, for us to get more entangled militarily in syria is a serious step and we have to make sure that we know

who we are helping, that we're not putting arms in the hands of folks who eventually could turn them against us or allies in the region. and i am confident that assad's days are numbered. but what we can't do, is to simply suggest as governor romney suggested that giving heavy weapons to the syrian opposition is a proposition that would led to be safer over the long-term. >> let's step back and talk about syria. first of all, 30,000 people being killed by their government is a humanitarian disaster. secondly, syria is an opportunity for us because syria plays an important role in the middle east, particularly now. syria's iran's only ally. it's the route to the sea. it's their route to arm hezbollah. and seeing syria remove assad is a very high priority for us.

and seeing the replacement government being responsible people is critical for us. we don't want to get drawn into a military conflict. and so the right course for is is to identify responsible parties within syria, organize them, bring them together in a form of -- if not government, a form of council that can take the lead in syria and then make sure they have the arms necessary to defend themselves. we do need to make sure that they don't have arms that get into the wrong hands. those arms could be used to hurt us down the road. we need to mage sure that we coordinate this effort with israel. but the turks and the saudis are concerned about this. we need to have a very effective leadership effort in syria making sure that the -- that the insurgent there is are armed and the insurgents that become armed are people who will be the responsible

parties. recognize, i believe that assad must go. i believe he will go. but we need to make sure that we have the relationship with the people that take his place such that in the years to come, we see syria as a friend and syria as a responsibility party in the middle east. this is a critical opportunity for america. and what i'm afraid of is that we've watched over the past year or so, first the president saying well, we'll let the u.n. deal with it. and kofi anoncame in and said we're going to have to try to have a cease fire. we should be playing the leadership role there. not on the ground with the military. the leadership role. >> we are playing the leadership role. we organized friends with syria. we are mobilizing humanitarian support and support for the opposition. we are making sure that those we help are those that will be friends of ours for a long time and friends of our allies in the region for a long time.

going back to libya because this is an example of how we make choices. when we went into libya and we were able to immediately stop the massacre there because of the unique circumstances and the coalition that we have helped to organize. we also had to make sure that muammar gaddafi didn't stay there. to the governor's credit you supported us going into libya and the coalition that we organized. but when it came time to making sure that gaddafi did not stay in power, that he was captured, governor, your suggestion was that this was mission creek, that this was mission muddle. imagine if we pulled out at that point. muammar gaddafi had more american blood on his hands more than osama bin laden. so we were going make sure that we finished the job. that's part of the reason they stood with us. we did so in a careful, thoughtful way, making sure

that we knew who we were dealing with. those forces of moderation on the ground were ones that we could work with. and we had to take the same kind of steady, thoughtful leadership when it comes to syria. >> can i just ask you, can you go beyond what the administration would do? like for example, would you put in no-fly zones? >> i don't want to have our military involved in syria. i don't think there's a necessity to put our military in syria. i don't anticipate that in our future. as i indicated our objective is to replace assad and to have them place a new government which is friendly to us. and i want to make sure they get armed and they have the arms necessary to defend themselves but also to remove assad. but i do not want to see a military movement on the part of our troops. this isn't going to be necessary. we have with our partners in the region we have sufficient resources to support those

groups. this has been going on for a year. this should have been a time for american leadership. we should have taken a leading role not militarily governmently to bring together the parties there to find responsibility parties. as you hear from intelligent sources, the insurgents haven't formed a unity group. that needs to happen. we need to make sure they have the arms they need to carry out the very important role which is getting rid of assad. >> could we get a quick response? >> well, i'll be very quick. what you just heard governor romney said, he doesn't have different ideas. and that's because we're doing exactly what we should be doing to try to promote a moderate, syria leadership and an effective transition,.

we get assad out. that's the kind of leadership we'll continue to show. >> there came a point when you said it was time for president mubarak to go. some in your administration thought we should have waited a while about that. do you have any regrets about that? >> no, i don't. because i think america has to stand with democracy. the notion that we would have tanks run over those young people who were in the square, that's not the kind of american leadership that john f. kennedy talked about 50 years ago. but what i've also said is that now that you have a democratically elected government in egypt that they have to make sure that they take responsibility for protecting religious minorities and we have put significant pressure on them to make sure they're doing that, to recognize the rights of women which is critical throughout the region. these countries can't develop if young women are not given the kind of education that they

need. they have to abide by their treaty by israel. not only is israel's security is at stake but our security is at stake. they have to make sure they're corporating us and we will help them with respect to developing their own economy because ultimately what's going to make the egyptian revolution successful for the people of egypt but also for the world is if those young people will gather there are seeing opportunities. aspirations are similar to people here. they want jobs. they want to make sure to be able to make sure they're kids are going to a great school. they want a roof over their heads. they want a prospect of a better life in the future. one of the things that we've been doing is organizing entrepreneur conferences with these egyptians to give them a sense how they could rebuild their economy in a way that's transparent. but what is also important for

us is that for america to be successful in this region, there are some things that we're going to have to do here at home as well. one of the challenges is that we've done experiments in nation building in places like iraq and afghanistan. and we've neglecting on public sectors and education system. it's very hard to project leadership when we're not doing -- >> governor romney, i want to hear your spobs to -- response to that. but i wanted to ask you would you have stuck with mubarak? >> no. i felt that -- i wish we would have had a better vision of the future. i wish that looking back at the beginning of the president's term that we would have recognized that there was a growing energy and passion for freedom in that part of the world an that we would have worked more aggressive will with our friend and with other friends in the region to help

them make the transition towards a representative fortunately of government such that it didn't explode as it did. but once it exploded, i heard the freedom voice and the streets of egypt were the people who were speaking of our principles and president mubarak did things unquestionable. let me step back to talk about what our mission should be in the middle east. because our purpose is to make sure the world is peacefulful we want a peaceful planet. we want people to enjoy their lives and know they have a bright, prosperous future. it's an honor that we have it. but for us to be able to promote those principles of peace requires us to be strong. and that begins with a strong economy here at home. unfortunately, the economy is not stronger. when the president of iraq --

excuse me of iran ahmadinejad said that our country's debt is the threat. our military is second to none in the world. we're blessed with terrific soldiers and extraordinary technology. but the idea of budget cuts through sequestration would change that. we need to have strong allies. our association and connection with our allies is essential to america's strength. we have 42 allies and friends around the world. and finally we have to stand by our principles. and if we're strong in those things, american influence will grow. but unfortunately, nowhere in the world is it greater in the world than it was four years ago. >> you're going get a chance to

respond to that because that's a perfect segway into our next segment and that is what is america's role in the world. and that is the question. what do each of you see as our role in the world? i believe governor romney it's your turn to go first. >> i absolutely believe that america has a responsibility and the privilege of helping defend freedom and promote the principles that make the world more peaceful. and those principles including human rights, human dignity, freedom of election. we want to promote those principles around the world. we recognize that there are places of conflict in the world. we want to end those conflicts to the extent humanly possible but in order to fulfill our role in the world, america must

be strong. america must lead. for that to happen we have to strengthen our economy here at home. you can't have 23 million struggling to get a job. you can't have an economy that for the last three years keeps slowing down its growth rate. you can't have kids getting out of college not finding a job. we have to get our economy going. and our military, we've got to strengthen our military long-term. we done know what the world is going to throw at us down the world. we make decisions today in the military that will confront challenges we can't imagine in the 20000 debates there was no mention of terrorists an a year later, 9/11 happened. we need to make it upon uncertainties. we have to stand by our allies. i think the tension that existed between israel and the united states was very unfortunately. i think also that pulling our missile defense program out of poland and the way we did was

unfortunate in terms of -- if you will disrupting the relationship in some ways it existed between us. and then of course with regards to standing for our principles. when the students took to the streets in tehran and the people there protested the green revolution occurred for the president to be silent, i thought was an enormous mistake. we have to stand for a strong military and stand for a stronger economy. >> america remains the one indispensable nation. and the world needs a strong america and it is stronger now than when i came into office. because we ended the war in iraq we were able to refocus our attention on not only the terrorist threat but also beginning a transition in afghanistan. it also allowed us to focus on alliances, relationships that had been neglected for a decade. our alies have never been stronger in asia, in your, in

africa, with israel where we have unprecedented military and intelligence cooperation including dealing with the iranian threat. but what we have been able to do is position ourselves so that we can start rebuilding america. and that's what my plan does, making sure that we're bringing manufacturing back to our shore so that we're creating jobs here, not rewarding companies that are overseas, making sure we have the best education system including retraining our workers for the work of tomorrow. we've cut our oil imports to the lowest level in two decades because we've developed oil and natural gas but we also have to develop clean energy technologies that will allow us to cut our exports in 2020. that's the kind of leadership we need to show. we've got to make sure that we reduce our deficit.

unfortunately, governor romney's plan doesn't do it. we need to cut out spend weg done need and also by asking the wealthiest to invest a little bit more so that. governor romney has taken a different approach throughout this campaign. both at home and abroad, he has proposed long and reckless policies. he's praised george bush as a good economic steward and dick cheney as someone who has great wisdom. and those strategies are not the way that we're going to lead in the 21st century. >> governor romney, wrong and reckless policy? >> i've got an agenda for the future. when it comes to our economy here at home, i know what it takes to create 12 million new jobs and rising take home pay. what we've seen over these four years is something i don't want to see for the next four years.

the president said we're at 4.5% of unemployment. we're nine million jobs short of that. i will see rising take home pay and i'll do it with steps. number one we are going have north american energy independence. we need to take full advantage of our renewables. number two, we're going to increase our trade. it doubles about every five or so years. . we can do better than that particularly in latin america. the opportunities for us in latin america we have not taken advantage of fully. latin america's china is almost as big as china. we have -- are going to have to have training programs and schools that put the parents and the teachers and the kids first and the teacher's union will have to abide. we will have to get to a balanced budget.

we can't expect entrepreneurs to informs in america if they think we're headed to the road of greece. and that's where we're headed unless we get off the spending and borrowing binge. number five, we have to champion small business. small businesses where jobs come from. 2/3 of our job come from small business. new level business are down. i want to bring them back and get good jobs in rising take home pay. >> first of all, governor romney talks about small businesses but when you were in massachusetts, small businesses development ranked about 48. because the policies that you're promoting don't actually help small businesses. and the way you define small businesses is folks at the very top. that's not the kind of business promotion we need.

but let's take an example that we know is going to make a difference in the 21th century. we didn't have a lot of chan chance to talk about in the last debate. under my leadership we reformed education, working with governors, 46 states. we've seen progress in schools that were having a terrible time and they're starting to finally make progress. what i now want to do is to hire more teachers especially in math and science because we know that we've fallen behind when it comes to math and science. now, those teachers can make a difference. governor romney you said this isn't going help the economy grow. when you were asked about to reduce class sizes, you said class sizes don't make a difference. but i tell you, if you talk to teach everies, they will tell you it does make a difference. and if we've got math teachers who are able to provide the kind of support they need for our kids, that's what's going

to determine the new businesses that are created here. companies will locate here depending if we have the workforce and the budget proposal tass you put forward. when you don't ask you or me to pay a dime more but instead we slash the poor for education, that's undermining our long-term competitive. that's not good for the world position. and the world notices. >> let me get back to foreign policy. >> i need a moment about education. i'm so proud of the state that i had the chance to be governor of. we have every two years tests that look at how well our kids are doing. fourth grader and eighth grader came number one. and we were number one english and also in math. how did we do that?

well, republicans and democrats came together in a paun basis to put in place education principles that focused on having great teachers in the class rupe. that's what allowed us to become the number one state in the nation. >> and then you cut education -- >> and we kept our schools number one in the nation. they're still number one today. and the principals that we put in place, we also gave kids not just a graduation exam to determine the kind of skills they needed but also if they graduated the top quarter of their class, they got a four-year tuition-free ride at any massachusetts institution. >> that happened before you came into office. >> no, that was actually mine >> -- no, that was actually mine. >> governor, you say you don't want do cut defense spending. we're talking about financial

problems in this country. where are you going to get the money? >> let's come back and talk about the military but all the way through. first of all, i'm going through from the very beginning, we're going to cut about 5% of the discretionary budget excluding military. that's number one -- the good news is i'll be happy to take a look. come on our website. you'll see how we balanced the budget in eight to 10 years. we do it by reducing spendsing. number one i get rid of is obama care. there are a number of things that sound good. and that one doesn't sound good and it's not affordable. i get rid of that one from day run. we take program after program that we don't absolutely have to have and we get rid of them. number two, we take some programs that we are going to keep like medicaid which is a program for the poor. we'll take that health care program for the poor an we give it to the states to run because states run these programs more

efficiently. as a governor, i thought please give me this program. i can run this faster than the federal government and states are proving it. states like arizona, rhode island, have taken these medicaid dollars to show they can run these programs cost effectively. >> it gets us to a balanced budget. but let's come back to the military, though. >> that's what i'm trying to -- you should have answered the first question. look, governor romney's called for $5 trillion of tax cuts, that he said he's going to get. he then want to spend another $2 trillion on military spending that our military's not asking for. keep in mind that our military spending has gone up every single year that i've been in office. we've spent more on our military than the next 10

countries campaigned. china, russia, france, the you nighted kingdom, you -- you nighted kingdom, you name it. what i did was to work with our joint chief of staff to make sure that we are safe. and that's the budget that we put forward. but what you can't do is spend $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military was not asking for. $5 trillion on tax cuts. you you say that you're going to pay for it by closing loopholes an deuxduxes without naming what those loopholes an deductions are. you're going to deal with the debt that we've already got. the math simply doesn't work. but when it comes to our military, well, we have to think about is not, you know, just budgets. we've got to think about capabilities. we need to be thinking about cyber security. we need to be thinking about space. that's exactly what our budget does but it's driven by

strategy. it's not driven by politics. it's not driven by members of congress and what they would like to see. it's driven by what are we going to need to keep the american people safe. it allows us to reduce our deficit which is a national security concern because we've got to make sure that our economy is strong at home so that we can project military power overseas. >> bob, i'm pleased that i have balanced budgets. i was in the world of business for 25 years. you didn't balance your business. i went to the olympics and i had the chance to cut taxes. we balanced our budget. the president hasn't balanced a budget yet. i expect to have the opportunity to do so myself. i'm going to be able to balance the budget. let's take about military

spending. our nation is smaller than than any time in 117. the navy said they needed 313 ships. we're headed down to the low 300s. that's unacceptable to me. i want to make smure that we have the ships that are required by our navy. our air force is smaller than any time since it was founded in 1947. we've changed for the first time since f.d.r. since f.d.r. we had two conflicts at one. now we're changing to one conflict. this is the highest responsibility of of the president of the united states which is to maintain the sift of our people. i will not cut the military budget by $1 trillion. that in my view is making our future less certain and less secure. >> first of all, the sequester's not something that i proposed. it's something that pro-posed.

i think governor romney hasn't spent time looking at how our military works. we had fewer ships. we also have fewer horses an bayonets because the nature of our military has changed. we have these things called air force carriers. the ships that go under water, nuclear submarines. it's what are our capables. so when i sit down with the secretary of the navy and the giant chief of staff, we determine how we're going to be able to best all of our defense needs a way that also keeps space with our troops but make sure they have the kind of support that they need when they come home. and that is not reflective in

the kind of budget that you're moving forward. it just doesn't work. >> we visited the website quite a bit and it still didn't work. >> i'd like to move to the next segment. red lines israel and iran. would either of you and you'll have two minutes and president obama, you have the first go at this one. would either of you will willing to declare that an attack on israel is an attack on the united states which of course, is the same promise that we give to our close allies like japan. if you made such a declaration would not that deter iran? it certainly detoured the soviet union for a long, long time. we made that promise to our a plies. >> first of all, israel is our true friend. it is greatest y lie in the region.

and if they are attacked i will stand with israel. and this is the reason why working with israel, we have created the strongest, military and intelligence cooperation between our two countries in history. in fact, this week we'll be carrying out the largest military exercise with israel, this very week. to the issue of iran as long as i'm president of the united states, iran will not get a nuclear weapon. i've made that clear when i came into office. we then organized the strongest coalition and the strongest sanctions against iran in history. and it is tripling their economy. they have plunged to the lowest level. so their economy is in shambles. the reason we did this is

because a nuclear iran is a threat to our security and to vel' national secure. but we not afford to have a nuclear's arms race in the most volatile country of the world they have said they want to see israel wiped off the map. so the work that we've done with respect to sanctions now officers a lot of choice. they can take the diplomatic root and end their nuclear program. or they will have to face a united world and a united states president, me, who said we're not going to take any options off the table. the disagreement i had with governor romney is that during the course in this campaign we often talk as if we would take military -- premature military action. i always understand that that's

the last resourt, not the first resort. >> two minutes? >> well, first of all, i want to under score that the same point, the president made which is if i'm president of the united states, when i'm president of the united states we will stand with israel. and if israel's attacked we have their back. not just diplomatically, not just culturally but militarily. that's number one. number two, with regards to iran. there's no question but a nuclear is not acceptable. . it's also essential for us to understand what our mission is in iran and that is to desuede iran having a nuclear weapon through peaceful and diplomatic reasons. i laid out seven steps. crippling sanctions were number

one. you're seeing the right thing. it's good that we have them. number two, something that i would add today is i would tighten those sanctions. i would say that ships that carry iranian oil came into our ports. not only ships couldn't i would say companies who are trading in their oil cap, i would tighten them further. second i would take on diplomatic isolation efforts. mahmoud ahmadinejad, i would indied him for it. i would make sure their diplomats are treated with what they are in the world, the same we treated the apartheid. we need to increase pressure type and time again because anything other than a solution to this which says -- which stops this nuclear folly of theirs is unacceptable to america.

and of course, a military action is the last resort. it is something i would only consider if all of the other avenues had been tried to their full extent. >> let me ask both of you, as you know there are reports that iran and the united states as part of an international group have agreed in principle to talk about iran's nuclear program. what is the deal if there are such talks? what is the tcheel you would expect, mr. president? >> well, first of all, those are reports in the newspaper. they are not true. but our goal is to get -- recognize an give up its nuclear program. and abide by the u.n. resolutions that have been in place because they had the opportunity to reenter the community of nations. and we would welcome that. they are people in iran who had the same aspirations as people

all over the world, for a better life of we hope that the leadership takes the right decision. they have no demue clear program. it's very straightforward. and i'm glad that governor romney agrees with the steps that we're taking. there have bven times governor, frankly during the course of this campaign, that it sounded like you thought you'd do the same thing. we did but you say them louder. and somehow that would make a difference. it turns up the work involved in setting up these sanctions is pain staking. we started from the day we got into office and the reason it was so important and this is a testament to how we restore american credsbility and strength. we had senior to make sure that all the countries participate even countries like russia and china. we had sanctions in place for a long type. it's because we got everybody to agree that iran is seeing so

much pressure. and we've got to maintain that pressure. there is a deal be had. and that's to abide by the rules that have already been established. they convinced the international community. they are not pursue agnew clear program. nair inspections -- in the meantime we're not going to have to let up the pressure until we have what we have. just to make this point. the clock is ticking. we're not going to allow iran to perpetually engage in associations that lead nowhere. i've been very clear. because of the oordnals and intelligence that we do, we have a sense of when they would get breakout capacity which means that we would not be able to intervene in time to stop their nuclear program and that clock is ticking. we have to make sure that if

they do not meet, the demands of the international community then we are going do take all operations necessary to make sure they don't have a nuclear weapon. >> governor? >> i think from the beginning one of the challenges that we've had with iran is that they have looked with thed a mintstration and felt that the administration is not as strong. i say that from the very beginning the campaign a and his campaign said he would meet with the world's worst actors. he would sit down with chavez an kim jong il with castro and president of iran. i think they thought and looked and said i think that's an unusual honor. and then the president began an apology tour. going to various nations the the middle east and criticizing america. i think they look at that and saw weekness.

the held signs saying is america with us? the president was silent. i think they noticed that as well. when the president said he's going to create daylight between ourselves and israel, but that noticed everything as well. all of people people suppinged to them, hey, we can keep on pushing along here. question keep talks going on. we're going to spend centrifuges spinning uranium. preparing to create a nuclear throat the united states and to the world that's unacceptable for us. it's essential for a president to show strength from the very beginning to make it very clear what is acceptable and not senl. -- senl. they must not develop nuclear capability. they need the tightest sanctions possible. we need to indict al-qaeda.

we feed to put the pressure on them as hard as we can. because if we do that, we won't have to take the military action. >> bob, let me just respond. nothing governor said is true starting with this motion of me apologizing. this has been probably the biggest whopper that has been told during the course of this campaign. and every reporter has looked at it. the governor has said this is not true. when it comes to tightening sanctions, look, as i've said before, we put in the toughest most crippling sanctions ever. you were still invested in a chinese state oil company that was doing business with the iranian oil sector. so who is going to be more imposing? and with respect to the iranian

revolution, i was very clear about the murderous activitys that have taken place. and that was contrary to international law. and everything that was civilized people stand for. so the strength that we have shown in iran is shown by the fact that we've been able to mobilize the world. when i came into the office, iran is at its weakest point,ically, strategically. and we are going to continue to keep the pressure on to make sure that they do not get a nuclear weapon. that's -- that will be the case so long as i'm president. >> we're four years closer to a nuclear iran. and we should not have wasted these four years to the extent they continue to with able to spend these centrifuges and get that much closer. the reason i called for an

apology tour is because you flue to egypt and to turkey and iraq. by the way, you skipped israel. and by the way they noticed that you skipped israel. and in those nations on arabic tv you said america had been dismissive. >> you said they dictated other nations. mr. ., we have freed other nations -- mr. president, we have freed other nations from a dictator. >> if we're going to talk to about trips that i have taken -- when i was a candidate for our office, the first trip i took was to visit our troops. and when i went to israel as a candidate, i didn't think donors. i didn't attempt fundraisers. i i went to the holocaust museum there to remind myself the nature of evil and why our

bond with israel will be unbreakable. and then i went down to the border towns which had experienced missiles raining down from hamas. and i saw families there who showed me where missiles would come down through their children's bedroom. as president, we funded an iron door program to stop those missiles. so that's how i've used my travels. when i travel to vea and when i travel to the region. the tral question at this point is going to be who's going to be credible to all parties involved? and they can look at my track record whether it's iran sanctions, whether it's dealing with counter terrorism, whether it's supporting women's rights.

they can say that the president of the united states has stood on history. that's kind of credibility is to show that we have close issues facing the world right now. >> what if the president of minister called you on the phone and said our bombers are on the way. we're going to bomb iraq. what do you say? >> eat's not going into hype thet calls. we -- this is the kind of thing that would have been discussed and thoroughly evaluated well before that kind of -- >> so you're just saying -- >> ok. well, let's see -- let me come back. let's go back to what the president is speaking about which is what's happening around the world. and the president's statement that things are going so well.

i look at what's is the middle east with violence, chaos, timult. i see jihadists continuing to spread whether they're rising or the same level. hard to precisely measure but it's clear they're there. they're very strong. syria with 30,000 civilians dead. assad's still in power. i see our dread deficit with china, larger -- growing. i don't feel, you see north carolina. you see a treaty that we had with them. dew point see our influence growing around the world. i see our influence receding because of our failure to deal with our economic challenges.