supported my campaign. he said the extreme right are now the republicans i grew up. they do not represent me. [applause] >> should have the privilege of serving you in congress, it would be my third career. my first, i was a special education teacher. i did that for seven years. i worked with a very severe population. and i loved it. it was a fantastic job. i will get up every morning saying yes, work today. there was something about the interaction that appeal to me. i felt like i was making a difference. i went back to school and in 1996 and became a computer scientist. i like it now.

but three years ago, i made the decision to go back and use what i know i am in a unique situation to take what i know and apply it to the education community and say we can make special education better. there are ways we can use the data we collect. i have to say i am a little proud of this, too. i am proud of standing up at this point of time. i wanted to be a politician. i did not do it because i wanted power. i did it because, after september 11, i wanted to find a way to serve my country. i was too old to join the army. i thought about applying to the fbi. i should never have a gun in my hand. [laughter] this, i can do. i can stand up and speak and

contribute to the conversation. i am very proud of this and proud of you guys because everybody has talked to me and said, we can do better. we, the electorate, can increase the conversation. we can make government better. i will answer the other part of the question, something i would take back. i was offered a job at amazon. [laughter] thank you. >> 30 seconds. >> in addition to governmental experience i am proud to make it back through the recession. but there were a lot of sleepless nights. keeping the doors open, keeping people employed. it was a real trying time. i can understand what people are going through. small businesses, had to deal

with this great recession we are in. i think god i was able to get through it. >> i am troubled about what i see some hypocrisy in that statement. somethings were difficult. he made a statement before mitt romney was known for making the statement, 50% of the people do not pay taxes. as if they were freeloading or not being useful to society when, in it two or less six years, he was paying taxes -- having business property, mobile properties, having a home, and having a state payroll paid by the taxpayers. what makes that right? him not paying taxes when other people, seniors. >> the other thing i am proud of is i like to think in my time in massachusetts i have really

grown to rate the difference of character. you guys are nothing like texas. i really have realized there is an amazing aspect to massachusetts, an incredible diversity. i really enjoy i have finally learned and become a resident. i am happy with what is happening right now. that is why i am running to represent you guys. >> each candidate will have time for a two-minute closing statement. >> i want to thank the sale of news and a jewish journalist panel as well as my opponents. we have seen this election comes down to a simple choice. on the one side, my opponent says he supports the tea party

and said they are a god send an the romney-ryan agenda a good start. if you agree the tea party has the right idea, if you like what you see coming out of washington with the republicans out -- in charge, to restrict access to birth control, to raise taxes on middle-class, tax cuts for millionaires, if you think mr. romney says we are right that half of the americans, including some veterans, seniors, and working women, children, freeloaders, billionaires pay less, it is -- he is probably somebody interests you. i am on the other side. you support president obama, if you believe fighting for the middle class is the right thing, if you get 17 different cassettes for small businesses and payroll tax cuts for the middle class, if you believe in

medicare, if you support laws for green jobs to hold insurance companies accountable by giving you refunds, if it keeps student loans down, then i am your candid it. boater's really do have a choice in november. i have a different path. a stronger middle-class, focusing on creating jobs, equality for women always. fighting for people in this district first, not wall street or big oil. i hope i have earned your vote on november 6. i ask you for the opportunity to serve again. thank you. [applause]

>> two minutes. >> there is a web site. it is a tea party purity test. all three of us failed. however, i passed a couple things. i am a strong fiscal conservative. this company -- country differentiates me from these guys. i will not vote to raise the debt ceiling. the t in tea party is an acronym. we are taxed enough already. we do not need to change the level at which we are taxed right now. we are being taxed enough already. this is something we can really look at and say, where is the disconnect right now? republicans and democrats have a consistent history of growing the government. that is what makes me different

from these guys. this is where i have to ask you for your vote. if you do not vote for me, if you like what you have her appear, but you do not vote for me because you think i cannot win, you are telling the parties those ideas are worthless, those ideas could not get 1% of the vote in the election. that is not the way it should be. your vote counts. your vote has to account for what you believe this election, i ask you to vote for something you like, some -- both for your conscience, to say, this amazing gift that has been given to us in this country, the ability to both for our opinions, you have to use it. if what i said appeals for you, you should vote it. if you do not vote for me, the message that gets sent is those ideas appeal to nobody. thank you.

[applause] >> i just want to say this is a good opportunity to change things. congressman is exhibit a of what is wrong and washington d.c. [applause] i also want to respond to the statement. tax returns, i did it. i had a tough time, no doubt. the company almost went under. i had to borrow money to keep things going. to keep the deer is -- deals open for people. the congressman threaten people with a libel suit. when he was forced to do it, lo and behold, we were $230,000 -- he did not pay any taxes on. that is a problem.

i do think the district deserves a lot better. i think this is an important election to change the things done in washington d.c.. i have a record of being a problem solver. an independent-minded person. [applause] >> that concludes tonight's debate. thanks to the staff and

volunteers. for helping us put this together. they will be sharing it with other communities and everybody will get a chance to see it. i would like to thank everybody for coming. the candidates for participating. and for the panel. thank you. >> in the last election, joe walsh won. this year, he is being challenged by tammy duckworth. this is a little more than a half hour. >> the candidates we have with us tonight in one of the most watched and heated congressional races in the nation.

the newly drawn eighth congressional district includes west and northwest suburbs. a couple of quick notes before we begin tonight. this is being stream to live on our website. you can also join a live chat there. you have a question for the candidates, you can ask it there. our format, this is not a formal debate. the candidates will not give opening or closing statements. their answers will not the time and they will not necessarily be asked the same question. i will use fairness as my guide to move the discussion along and we ask the candidates to stay on topic and not give campaign speeches. joining us tonight, seated in the order they appear on the ballot, are tammy duckworth, a

democrat. she previously ran for congress in 2006. she also served in the iraq war, receiving a purple heart, and remains a lieutenant colonel in the illinois national guard. congressmen joe walsh, a republican first elected to the house of representatives in 2010. he worked with high school dropouts here in chicago and later taught american history and government at community colleges in the area. we thank you both for being here. welcome. we mentioned this race. it has had its share of intense encounters. there have been some fireworks. it has the dubious distinction of having made the 10 national congressional mizzenmast -- the 10 nastiest congressional races in the country. i would like to ask each of you

to say something you respect and admire about your opponent that makes them were the to hold political office. >> i think mr. walsh loves his country. as much as any of us do. that will go a long way toward serving the people of this country and people of the district. as long as we remember the job is about serving the folks and the district, i think we can all go a long way with that. >> campaigns can get personal. it is the nature of the business. we lose sight of who we are running against often. because of everything that happens, we do lose a connection. i have always respected her service. and her sense of duty moving forward, which is why she wants to run for congress. i think that is incredibly noble. >> let's began and let's hope we

can keep that congeniality throughout this. let me start with you, congressman. you have a slogan you have repeated during your freshman term that you did not go to washington to compromise, that your objective was to "stop this president." do you feel you have met your goal? >> i think we have done a decent job. maybe it is because i have taught american government and american history and i take a bit of a longer view. the country is going through something pretty tumultuous right now. we are having a grand debate. i always want to be respectful about where we are as a country. when president obama got elected, a big chunk of the country did a timeout, where are we going, our country's rigid government is getting too big and it is doing things government used to do and then they sent folks like us to congress to join in that debate

to helpother debripoint, educate the people. as a country, we need to wake up because we are really broke and we are not working and the economy is growing -- not growing. it is e as a country, we need to wake up and get educated. we have raised the debt ceiling and number of times. >> we will get more specific. before you get to that. he said you will not compromise. you now say if you are reelected, you will be more willing to compromise. >> absolutely. depending on how this election shapes out. i am hoping that is the next step in this country, coming together to solve these problems. i have made clear i will never compromise on laying one more dollar of debt on top of our

kids. i will not raise any taxes on america right now because we are all taxed out. having said that, there is plenty underneath that i think both parties can come together on and agree on. >> you have a bipartisan spirit going into a washington was elected? if so, what are you willing to oppose your own party on. >> one of the things i have been clear about is the affordable can act. there are big flaws in it. we love kids with pre-existing conditions are covered. we like the seniors who cannot lose their health insurance just because they are seniors. or women do not have to pay more because there are women. most parents like they can cover their children up to age 26. there are real issues. this is the one of the first things i have said. businesses with a low profit margin, like restaurants, are

really going to serve higher costs. that is not acceptable. >> a general question because we will get to that later on, you feel one of york first priorities will be to may be a challenge the president if obama is reelected, or challenge your party? >> i think we need to fix problems with it and we have to be honest about the fact there are problems with the affordable care at. that is what needs to happen in washington. we need to listen to the people and if the people tell me they like all the good -- all the good parts and there are things that need to be fixed, i am .illing to do that caug >> on your first things is to reduce -- created by congress to prevent and mitigate national conflict. and mary -- the very next day, you voted to continue several

funding for nascar sponsorships. can you explain that? how is that fiscal responsibility? >> it is almost as if as a country we are not serious. we voted on 1000 things over the last couple of years in congress. specific spending items and larger spending items, trying as best as we can to limit what government does. the country has got to get serious. we have 10,000 americans retiring every day in this country. we are living longer. there is so much more that needs to be cut. it almost goes beyond cuts. we need to reform what government does. >> those two specific points that happen to jump out from your record and the first few weeks you were there. was that something you knew? you say you wrote on thousands of things. how do you explain an institute

that promotes peace? >> we tried to make a role generally that i was going to try to cut spending wherever i could. there were always exceptions. i voted to cut generally, but the nascar amendment bill was to help recruit men and women to serve in our armed services. it is something our armed services asked for. i think it is important we continue to try to make a great effort to recruit men and women. that was probably part of that specific. >> you do not have a voting record we can cite just yet. the opposition says if you have been a protege -- protege, as you were, and governor clinton, and president obama, and the district, most everyone generally agrees has drawn to get you elected. you owe that to the house speaker.

you said it has been a bulk of the trend in the affordable care act. what is to say you are not following toby on the democratic party and all of these people you might be beholden to? >> take a look at my record. i am proud of the work i have done. when i started, eleanor was 39. by the time i left, we were in the top five in the nation. that was a tough time. nothing was getting done. you know what i did in order to get things moving? i founded the first bipartisan congress of legislators in springfield on issues. i reached out to republican state senators and said, we have to get this through. nothing is happening here. with the help of a bipartisan legislator, standing up to the

speaker, we were able to pass this first program and the nation that provided grants that actually helped veterans across the nation, $10 million out the door so far. there were many feet -- many more programs like that. in japan -- introduced the first 24 hour hot line in the nation the only way i did that was withheld. >> 3 points. on record for a couple years out, the affordable care act did not go far enough. >> we will get to that. >> this was drawn for her. it was drawn by very powerful people. a final point, tammy did do some good things when she ran the of the a hilly region here in illinois. illinois left a lot of states and still has a huge problem to

give to the veterans. >> let's move on to some big issues facing the country. >> i do not get to respond? >> we will hopefully get back to a. we have a lot of territory tonight. let's talk about sosa security and medicare. at this rate, the medicare system has come of this left. given its funding. social security could be bankrupt by 200033. specifics about how to reform and at longevity to these programs. >> a few things we need to do. i start on a point of where the people in the district wants me to be. they want to maintain the guarantee of social security and they want to maintain the guarantee of medicare. not once in the 18 months i have been campaigning has a cindy -- single senior come up to me and said, please let him do it wants to do. we need to be honest about the fraud and the abuse in the

program. here is where i agree with peter ross. he has a bill out. the fast act. it would go after the fraud and waste and abuse in medicare. i would certainly support that. we have to be honest. i would also look at medicare being allowed to negotiate for lower drug prices. we were able to do that. so much in prescription drugs and you get a price that is cheaper. medicare cannot do that. >> will that be enough? >> you need to look at other places, as well. you do not cut medicare to save it. $385 billion we do not need right now. hundred $55 billion. >> your proposals for reforming social security and medicare. >> the first point is to get serious.

medicare will not be here. it will disappear. every elected official in washington knows that. democrats do not say it publicly. there are only two things you can do. you can do what obamacare does. which is cut medicare. right now, $716 billion will be cut out of medicare to fund obamacare. >> that is an outright lie. not true. it has been pointed out that is not an accurate statement. you can keep repeating it but it does not make it true. >> it is part of obamacare to cut $760 billion out of medicare in 16 years. a 15% bureaucratic panel of " non-doctors in charge of medicare decisions. >> the $760 billion different from the same amount in the

rhine budget? >> mitt romney proposes to keep those funds in medicare and reform medicare, an important point. let me answer what needs to be done in medicare. even the republicans were aware of how delicate a candy, over 55, nothing changes. to keep this program around for folks hundred and 55, the other way we have got to go is to give seniors options. >> governor run the's proposals for vouchers. it is called a premium support. it is what we currently do, which is where we give seniors options. important to note, even for people younger than 55 in the republican plan, if you want to keep traditional medicare you can.

you are either going to ration or you will give seniors options. president obama with obamacare, wants to ration care. >> i think i should answer that. it is simply not true. he voted for the rhine budget, which would end medicare as you know. that is from the wall street journal. we would put seniors on the streets. even further than the rhine budget. he would like to eliminate the projection but -- drug benefit. you want seniors to pay more for medicare. not a single senior -- >> and medicare as we know it. the chicago tribune and every other responsible person in this country has said if we do not ended as we is, it will end as we know it all by itself.

we will not preserve it for future generations. we have to do it. [indiscernible] >> a $1 million deficit in this country. congressmen, government romney -- governor romney said among the things he would target would be the corporation for public prog -- public broadcasting and big bird. that got a lot of attention. that is a small fraction of the federal budget. give me some big ticket items you would cut. >> the big ticket items are what we call this pile of mandatory spending. you basically break the federal budget into defense, non-defense spending, and mandatory spending. when it comes to non-defense discretionary spending, what we have tried to do is reverse the combat -- the direction president obama has been going in which they increase that by 20%.

the specifics are to reform these entitlement programs. >> such as? >> medicare and social security so they are around. the biggest fastgrowing piece of the federal budget by far is the health care costs for our aging population. i voted to cut defense, part of the rhine budget is to cut defense. everything needs to be cut. i have said publicly. >> what are you referring to? we have requests we have bases are on the world we do not need >> we have bas we do not es do not need. >> $1 trillion in cuts right now. $385 billion. >> why should it be cut? thus we do not need it.

we already dominate this guy. we do not need it right now. >> how much would that take us down? >> $385 billion. $24 billion in medicare being allowed to negotiate for lower drug prices. $41 billion in oils and gas subsidies we should be going after. that is just for the loopholes that allow companies to not pay their taxes, and yet people in my district pay their fair share. we should be focused on supporting those. >> a quick yes or no on these. we need to move forward. in terms of income tax reductions, mortgage interests, yes or no? class i would be very open to looking to get--- -- >> i

would be very open to looking to get rid of it. >> i think we need to lower the tax cuts on those looking -- to expire. >> we could get rid of the whole basket. what we need to do in this country is move toward a simple flat tax so americans can keep more of their money and so only the wealthy do not have -- they have the money to pay lawyers to find every deduction. if you want the wealthy to pay and. simplify the tax rate >> billions of dollars for large corporations who ship their jobs overseas so they do not have to pay taxes. they got a tax credit last year. >> we have a question from one of our viewers. this goes back to be affordable care act. tammy duckworth, you have said

repeatedly obamacare did not go far enough. what do you mean? >> i mean i think our businesses experienced an unfair burden when compared to other businesses. they told me they should not be in the business of providing health care. i do not think we will get to a place where all americans have coverage for health care, single payer any time soon. in the meantime, we need to get to work. we cannot get back to washington in january and vote for the third seventh time to repeal the affordable care act. that is what mr. walsh wants to do. we need to fix it. >> this is what people do not like about politics. she said the affordable care acted not go far enough. i believe in government-run universal health care. i wish she would stand by that because she said that probably repeatedly -- prowled the repeatedly.

proudly repeatedly.eatedly a >> most seniors have said to me, please get rid of medicare, -- what they said was you need to cut what you need to cut. cut the oil and gas subsidies, let mitt romney pay his fair share. >> another viewer. he is asking, what is the role of the federal government in a citizens' daily life. >> the role of the federal government? we are born with god-given rights and freedoms. our founders believed as we should all believe today that the federal government is there to make sure our god -- god- given rights and freedoms are not taken away.

>> public good. i think it is important in our society americans have come together and decided there is an important social safety net program so if you are on your knees and you need help, we should not give up on you. you need to get off of them but they should be there for you. >> let me ask you about your personal and public image. you have been the source of a lot of attention. you have referred to it as passionate. others have used more harsh words. saying you are sexist and racist. you make your points made. sometimes quite loudly and sometimes in your face. the regret anything of the way you handled yourself and your responses to run your first term? >> know. there are times i have got ahead of myself. whenever i have felt i step of a

line, i tried to apologize. i made a pledge that i would be the most accessible member of congress. i do not know of a member of congress who has held more open public town halls as i have every time i am out in public there are cameras around. you have to make the decision, will you keep doing that or will you cut because your word about what you say. we are also politicians who pull test everything that comes out of this month. i am and not dock in that i am not driven by my reelection. >> you have polls that say you need to balance straight talk with irresponsible talk and rainier solvent. >> you always try to. understand when you are an all elected official and you have made it a point to always be out there, and to invite independence, democrats

republicans to come out -- come ask me anything, as best any opinion, i have held over 200 town halls, hours of tape. there will be times when things got excited or passionate. this is a very important time in our country. >> let me ask you about your military service. you served honorably. you sustained very serious wounds in iraq, as we mentioned. some believe you might be overplaying your military service and perhaps your wounds in order to get elected. how do you get respond -- how do you respond? >> i think my opponents started that remark. his attacks conable veterans to speak about military service, or whether it is his discussions of latinos being dependent on

government the way african americans are, or his past, present. i am proud of our military service. it is part of why and how i conduct myself. i never called myself a hero. the real heroes are the men who saved me. every day i get up and i work every day to serve my nation because i have that to live up to. i have to make the most of this second chance in the life i have. the military is about the mission and getting the job done and getting -- and coming together. there is this a partisan vitriol that comes out. the chicago tribune endorsed me and said he is hyper partisan. >> at beginning of every town hall i have had, i recognized those who have served and i have called them heroes. they are. the point i have always tried to make is, this great country is

struggling right now. to run for congress, you need to tell voters what you believe in and where you stand on issues and not just talk about your service. >> let's move on. we would like to make this a lightning round. quick responses. in terms of foreign policy, do you agree with the withdrawal timetable? >> i would like them to come home sooner. for me, the benchmark is, how quickly can we get them home without having to put people back again. i would love to bring people home as soon as possible. >> not dictate a time table. >> under what conditions would you support military action in iran? >> if need be, yes, as a last option. >> under what conditions? >> if sanctions do not work, if they are about to have the

ability to develop a nuclear bomb, we used every option possible. that would be the last option we have to use. we have a ready to use. >> i think we do not let iraq and develop a nuclear weapon. >> under what conditions would you recommend it? >> i cannot tell you right now. at the end of the day, if that is what it be -- what is needed, we will have an honest discussion about what is needed. i think it is time for the country of the middle east to step up.

not as a first course. not by ourselves. >> we need to encourage the democratic forces there. we need to rally countries around the world to isolate syria. >> do you support the use of bronze backs >> yes, as much as possible. we are in a war on terror. there are evil people around the world trying to kill us. we need to use every tool at our disposal to find and kill them. >> drones is something there that is a tool. >> do you support the dream that? >> i do. it needs to be practical, it needs to be fair, and it needs to be humane. we need to make sure people pay fines to have broken the law, i think we need to make sure people cannot get moved in front of the line in front of those who have been here illegally.

have to be practical. we cannot simply expel people and put them in jail. i do not what the kids we have invested millions of dollars in to go overseas. >> that is an answer trying to have its for five different ways. the dream that move people to the front of a line. i won my government to secure its border and i want them to do that before we have a discussion about immigration reform. 15 to 19%. , a huge concern. -- that is a huge concern. we have 15 to 19% unemployment in this country. >> let me ask you about a couple colleagues in congress. senator -- they have both been

in illness. how long should constituents give an elected official in congress before they ask them to resign or step aside? what do you think? >> an interesting question. my thoughts and prayers go out to both because we know the battle the senator is going through. he is fighting it valiantly every single day. clearly, the congressman had his own issues. the most important thing for all of us for our elected officials to be open and transparent about what our situations are. there seems to be some issues with that, with the congressman. >> how do you feel? >> we need to give both the congress and and the senator the opportunity to recover. we give my least a year. i think they are both fighting

some important fights in their lives. as long as they are open and about the recovery, i think it is very inspirational. if you have seen the videos, thank goodness he has amazing health care that allows him to get the care he needs. it is an inspiration. >> let me ask you about a couple of social issues. the defense of marriage act. do you support striking it down? >> i support the defense of marriage act. it is important that this country signal marriage is a union between a man and a woman and that is the best environment to raise our kids. >> i do not support the defense of marriage act. my marriage is not broken by two other consenting adults marry each other. i have been criticized for this before. i think it is important. my position comes from my time in a hospital. my husband had to make decisions for me as next of kin.

whatever needed to be done, ew.band nud -- knew. >> your stance on abortion. it says you will not allow it. no exceptions. >> understand when we talk about exceptions, we talk about rape,, and life of the woman. light of the woman is not an exception. -- life of the woman is not an exception. rape and are exceptions. there is still a life there. i would counter my position on life and abortion with ms. supports's, who taxpayer funding of abortions, which has always been a consensus. >> your reaction?

then we have to move on. >> i am pro-choice. here is the thing. not for rape,, and the life of the mother. he would let a woman died. >> that is not fair. >> talking about right, he co- sponsored the amendment, the need to define what forceable rape is. >> that is not right. >> that amendment four years, everybody knew what rate was. positions, the woman, a law- enforcement officer. suddenly, he feels the need. out of touch. >> i have got to respond. that is not true. i co-sponsored a bill and voted for a bill on the floor that kept the right language as this. >> -- as is. >> that is what the bill said.

>> that is not true. question need to wrap up quickly. let me ask you about the human being behind a politician and a candidate. congressman walsh. you came to the inner city to work with high school dropouts. how did that inform the person you have become? >> i have tried to dedicate my life to helping those less fortunate than i. most of life prior to running three years ago was working with those less fortunate. i spent a good number of years working in the inner city trying to improve educational opportunities for young african- american, hispanic, and white children. i taught american history. >> i need to ask. you were born in thailand to an

american father. your mother was of chinese extraction. you traveled in south asia and ended up in hawaii. how did that affect the person you became? >> i ended up in hawaii because my dad lost his job and no one would hire a man in his 50's. we ended up in food stamps. thank god for the student loans and the pell grants that were there for me that allowed me to go to college. the programs mr. walsh has called free handouts. if you talk about what has affected me, it is the hard work, the personal responsibility, and the struggle to make something. >> we have to bring this to an end. thank you very much. tammy duckworth and joe walsh. thank you to the city club in chicago for this. >> it is time for our lightning round. we will ask questions only to be

answered with yes and no. we will ask our candidates to refrain from explanations except yes or no. >> we will be starting with you. would you like to be selected to the senate majority leader? >> sure. [laughter] >> yes. >> have the fired a gun or rifle with the last year? >> yes. >> no. >> is andrea the best in your lifetime? >> no. >> his father was. >> have you read "this the shades of gray -- "50 shades of

gray." no. [laughter] >> this month, follow the races on c-span. >> now through election day, what our coverage of the presidential candidates. debates from a house-senate run the country. in a few moments, a debate among the presidential candidates of the libertarian party, the constitution party, and the justice party. after that, a debate among the candidates for the senate in indiana. >> on "washington journal,", we we will talk with the deputy rep order of the route. we will also talk with programs focusing on the battleground state, starting with florida.

our guests include brian crowley, when the curry, and steven van gorp. washington journal is live on c- span every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern. several live events to tell you about tomorrow. the news briefing with leon panetta. kennecott 30 a.m. eastern. a couple of political events in the afternoon, including paul ryan. he will be at cleveland state university to talk about the economy and job creation. just before 5:00 p.m., we will bring you president obama's rally in denver. one of three campaign events for the president tomorrow. also in iowa and nevada. >> i regularly watch the the

washington journal." -- watched "washington journal." i also watch c-span online. c-span provides information to us that is rare. into a's spin-oriented society, we cannot regularly get the kind of the reformation we need to make decisions for ourselves. we often have to. from either the left or the right. the great thing about c-span is you get the information directly from the policy makers so you can make up your own mind about who is right and what is good for the country. >> gregory evans watches c-span. created by america's cable companies in 1979, brought to you by your -- a public service by your television provider.

>> a debate among the presidential candidates, the libertarian party, the green party, the constitution party, and the justice party. free and equal lections foundation. this 90-minute event is moderated by the foundation holder and larry king. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] captioning institute] >> tonight's debate is the first of its kind. these individuals represent all types of political ideologies.

i imagine our audience is just as diverse. [applause] ultimately, we the people are our government. discuss, or don't discuss issues with friends and classmates, we system, no matter who is in charge. [applause]

without them controlling the questions asks. to improve the electoral system of the united states. form a non-partisan coalition is to unite people and organizations across the political spectrum who also want free, open, and fair elections. these individuals represent all types of political ideologies. i imagine our audience is just as diverse. we hope to have candidates for every level of government. [applause]

ultimately, we the people are our government. if we don't pay attention, don't discuss, or don't discuss issues with friends and classmates, we get the same dysfunctional system, no matter who is in charge. but if we educate ourselves, we can figure out how each of us can make a positive impact. that's the way to change the system. knowledge-sharing, truth seeking, open debate, fresh ideas, and discovering a common ground. we are at a critical time in our nation's history. it is time to take this country

back. [applause] >> our moderator tonight is award-winning media broadcaster, larry king. [cheers and applause] he is the host of "larry king now." thank you, larry. >> thank you.

and welcome everybody. i am very happy to be doing this. i think all voices should beit will be an easy job for me. each candidate will have an opportunity to make a two-minute opening statement. six questions will be asked in all, 0 minutes. from submissions made via social media. after a question is asked, each candidate will have two minutes to answer. once all candidates give their two-minute response, they will have a one-minute time to expand. first let me introduce jill stein, the green party candidate for president. [cheers and applause] >> we're in downtown chicago, by the way, at the hilton hotel. next, from salt lake city, the justice department nominee. [cheers and applause] next, the constitution nominee

for president. [cheers and applause] >> and the final independent candidate is gary johnson. gary is the libertarian party nominee. the first question for tonight's topic is our electoral system is from the free and equal elections foundation hosting this debate and will asked by christina tobin. >> thank you. the right. here is our question.

a top two primary is an election in which party labels appear on the ballot, but parties do not nominate candidates. instead, the candidates choose their own ballot label. all candidates run in the primary, but only the top two vote getters appear on the ballot in the november election. the system is p currently used

in louisiana, washington state, and california. it is now a ballot member prop 21. what is your position on the top two primary system and why? >> we'll start with jill stein. >> thank you. and thank you so much to free & equal, and thank you for being here. i think top two does not enlarge our democracy. in many ways, it confuses things more. it puts many candidates onto the ballot all together, and it arbitrarily attaches party labels to them. any candidate can choose any label they want. so it really degrades the meaning of our political parties, where they have meaning, and i know they don't always, but there are some that do have meaning that aren't bought and sold to the highest bidder, and the green party is one of those parties.

and i know there are some other parties here as well, the independent parties, where the parties actually represent real values. and the top two obscures the meaning of those parties, and it puts everyone together, so you really can't tell who is representing you, and whoever hats the biggest budget stands to win that primary -- whoever has the biggest budget stands to win that primary, and it becomes another way that big money can control our electrics. -- our elections. so i oppose top two, as the green party does, and we actually support a whole variety of election reforms for the purpose of enlarging our democracy, not increasing the sellout of our democracy. we are calling for getting money out of politics through public financing.

we're calling for opening up the airwaves to all qualified candidates. >> 10 seconds. zwr we would like to clarify that money is not speech and that corporations are not people to take back our constitutional rights. [applause] >> next, for two minutes, rocky anderson. >> the top two system is simply a continuation of the degradation of our democracy by this monopoly of the republican and democratic parties. our democracy is so degraded by these two parties from the beginning in terms of ballot access, in terms of getting on the ballot so you can give people choices.

this top two item says you can put your own candidates out there. you can even have two people from the same political party, and that means no choice for the voters. [cheers and applause] last night and in all these vice-presidential debates, look how convictive the debate has -- constrictive the debate has been when you have two parties there. they are arguing about who is going to spend more on the military budget? barack obama bragging that he's increased the military budget every year they are in office? they are trying to out-do each other in terms of who will drill more both off shore and on public lands, and neither of them cares to talk about getting rid of this disastrous war on drugs. neither of them talk about poverty.

when we have the worst poverty rate in this country since 1965. we need to open up the choices. in south africa the world rejoices at the growth of their democracy falling apart. the first ballot in the presidential election that had 18 people's names on it. that's real democracy, and that's giving the voters real choice. [applause] >> rocky, one quick question. when you were mayor, what party were you in? >> i was in the democratic pacratic party. [applause] >> virgil goode, what party were you in? >> always conservative.

now i'm in the constitution party. >> your response to the initial question. >> thank you, larry. first i want to say thanks to your being here for lending your name and your prestige to this event, and to thank free & equal for their hard work in bringing a much broader vision to the american people so they will know that they have more choices than just obama and romney. >> i do not favor the top two system. i agree with jill, as she said, money is not speech, and the top two system enhances those that have the most money. however, i was not in favor of $100 million at the democratic national convention of taxpayer money, $100 million to the republican convention of taxpayer money. [applause]

>> the top two system federal slation rebealing appealing what louisiana has done or telling virginia or telling maine or telling arizona or new mexico any state what they should do. but we have to work in every state and every legislator and oppose top two. in my view, it is a hindrance to true democracy for grassroots americans that don't want to be controled by p.a.c.s. >> and our final speaker on this topic, i know you were a republican as governor of new mexico.

gary johnson, your response. >> well, running for governor of new mexico as a republican, i ran completely outside of the political system, completely. and i went and i introduced myself to the republican party two weeks before iran, and they said, you know what? we like you, we like what you have to say. we are completely inclusive. you can go and make your case to all republicans in the state, take part in the debates, take part in the discussions. that's the way politics should be. i was able to make that presentation. i was able to make that case. by the way, the republican party chairman at that time said, you can do all this stuff, but you just need to know that you will never get elected because it is not possible to get elected governor in the state that's 2-1 democrat. well, i did get elected. so as governor of new mexico, completely outside of the political system, i have always been pro-choice regarding everything.

so should this be a top two candidate voting system? this should be something that gets ferreted out at the local level, at the state level, not at the national level. there are only a couple voices being heard here, and it is tweedle dee and it is tweedle dum. it is two candidates talking about who is going to spend so much medicare, when you and i put in three times more than what you get out. it is not sustainable. yet, it is indicative of our federal government today, which is on an unsustainable path, the results of with are going to be an monetary collapse unless we actually bring this under control. as a third party candidate i have been given the opportunity here to make the case that's not

being made by either of the two major candidates. >> thank you, governor. quheers cheers [applause] >> a lot of people asked me why i would consent to do this. one, i like moderating, and two, i like asking questions, even though i didn't ask these questions. they were submitted. and three, i think these people deserve a lot of credit for coming forward. it is easy to sit back and watch. they are counting today, and they deserve to be heard. [applause] >> each is now entitled to a one-minute response if they care to use it. jill? >> yeah, thank you. i just want to mention, talking about how all of us need to stand up and demand real democracy and demand free and open and inclusive debate. i just want to mention that my running mate and i went to the door step of the commission on presidential debates at hoffstra university last week and that we were arrested, we were tightly bound with plastic restraints,

and tied to chairs for eight hours for daring to stand up and demand demand open debates. this is what all of us need to do. i encourage you to go to my web site, jillstein.org and sign the petition there on challenging the commission on presidential debates. we should not let them do this again. [applause] >> rocky, one minute. >> the top two system is a sign that these two parties, the political duopasy in this

country is trying to further put their strangle hold on our democracy. we have to stand up. in federal elections, it is a federal matter. we should not leave it to the steps. the corrupting influence of money in this country is at the root of every major public policy disaster. it is why we don't have health care for all, as in the rest of the industrialized world. it is why we aren't providing international leadership on the climate crisis because of all the corrupting money coming from the fossil fuel industry, and it is why we have this enormously wasteful military budget with this military industrial complex putting pressure on congress and the white house. >> five seconds. >> so we need public financing of elections for our democracy. we need free and equal access to the public airways. >> thank you. >> virgil, one minute. >> thank you. the top two system, as others have indicated, favor the super p.a.c. and the political action committees. they are political action committees not just of business but of unions.

i am for no political action committees. individual contributions only and no super p.a.c.s. i believe congress can craft legislation with presidential leadership to stop political action committees. big money that funnels through the p.a.c. is the greatest hindrance, in my opinion, to free and open elections and freedom and democracy in this country. we threw out the king at the time of the revolution because of leafy handedness. -- because of heavy handidness and we need to stand up and throw out the political action committees. [applause] >> this is a one minute response. you can use it or not use it, governor. >> i think when it comes to political campaign contributions that candidates should be required to wear jackets commensurate. [applause]

>> what is really needed is 100% transparancy. i will tell you, whether or not romney or obama gets elected, three things will happen. we will continue to find ourselves with a continued heightened police state in this country. we will find ourselves continuing to intervene in the world which has resulted in hundreds of millions of enemies to this country that wouldn't otherwise exist. there is a reason why we shouldn't be using drones. it is because we don't just take out the target, we take out a lot of innocent civilians in these countries where these drones attack. [cheers and applause] and then lastly, we will find ourselves in a continued state of unsustainable spending and borrowing to the point that we are going to experience a monetary collapse unless we fix this. >> thank you, governor.

[applause] >> tonight's second question, all questions submitted by social media were submitted by jeff tanguay of colorado via facebook. question, in what way does the war on drugs impact americans and how could these effects be reduced. is there a more efficient way to do deal with the issue of drug use in america. two minutes. jill stein. >> rocky, actually. >> oh, right. thank you. >> how about opening statements? >> did we have opening statements? >> unfortunately, no. >> grassroots. >> i didn't know we had opening statements. i thought we went right to the questions. >> let's go with our opening statements. two minutes each. >> ok. this will be opening statements, and then we will go to the second question.

>> from jill stein. thank you, larry. >> go ahead, jill. >> great. always glad to lead. [cheers and applause] >> the american people are in crisis. we are losing our jobs, decent wages, our homes by the millions, affordable health care and education. the climate is in meltdown, and our civil liberties are under attack. the wealthy few are richer than ever rolling in more doe than ever, and the -- dough than ever, and the political establishment is not making it better, imposing insanity on everyday people while they continue to squander trillions trillions of dollars on boring for oil we don't need, on wall street bail outs, and tax breaks for the very wealthy.

the american people are at the breaking pt. and we need to turn that breaking point in this election into a tipping point to take back our democracy, and see the green future that we deserve, and we do that by standing up and making sure that everyday people have a voice in this election and a choice at the polls that is not bought and paid for by wall street and by advancing the critical solutions that the american people are clamoring for by large majority. our campaign is calling for a green new deal to create $25 million jobs and unemployment. jump start the green economy. and that means putting a whole new climate change and making war for oil obsolete.

we're calling for health care for human rights, for medicare for all, and for bailing out the students, not the banks and making public -- [applause] >> governor, it was not in my notes about an opings oh, opening statement. so i apologize. i follow my notes. i'm a jewish guy from brooklyn. we do what we're told. >> frankly, people are here to listen to you than us. [laughter] >> we are at a pivotal point in our nation's history. young people are burdened with crushing tuition debt. millions of families have lost their homes. requirement accounts have been decimated while wall street fat cats who are buying our elections have made out like bandits.

we have never had the disparity of income and wealth that we see between the very wealthy and all the rest of us since the 1920's. our poverty rates have never been so high as 1965. child poverty. and infant mortality rates are next to the worst in the world. the united states has the worst rate of industrialized nations of women dying in connection with pregnancy and childbirth. under obama care there will be 30 million people without essential health care by the year 2022. and during the bush and the obama years our constitution has been shredded while the impeerl presidency -- the imperial presidency expanded. the presidents that think they can take us to war on a pack of lies. with presidents that think federal government should have the authority to round anyone

up, including u.s. citizens, and imprison them without charges, without trial, without legal representation, and without the right of habeous corpus. and our elected officials are sound asleep when the pentagon is warning that climate change is a greater long-term security risk to the united states than terrorism. so if you like the way things are going, vote democratic or republican. if you want real change, vote your conscience, vote justice. economic justice, social justice, environmental justice. [cheers and applause] >> back to our opening statement from virgil goode. >> thank you, larry. i want to say thank you jill, gary, and rocky for being here. on the four issues i will address right now, you can deduce my positions of what i think.

i will name afour positions in which i am very different from barack obama and mitt romney. first, obama and romney both claim that they were and still are for a balanced budget. reality. the obama budget this year was $1 trillion in deficits. the paul ryan budget which passed the u.s. house was $600 billion in deficit. i have the courage to submit a balanced budget if i'm elected president right after i'm inaugurated. secondly, i am for jobs and america for american citizens first, and the only candidate that has called for a near complete moritorium on green card admissions to the united states until unemployment is under 5%. unemployment is so high in this country. [applause]

secondly, third, we -- >> running low on time. >> we need the super p.a.c.s and political action committees, that would be one of the things to open up our country for greater process and greater voice by the people, and finally, we need term limits. it is time to do the best job in congress instead of the election and fund raiser. >> now an opening statement from governor johnson. >> the country is in really deep trouble. we should not bomb iran. [applause] we should end the war in afghanistan tomorrow. bring the troops home tomorrow. [cheers and applause] marriage equality is a constitutionally guaranteed right on par with civil rights of the 1960's. let's end the drug wars. legalize marijuana now.

[applause] let's repeal the patriot act. [cheers and applause] i would have never signed the national defense authorization act allowing for you and i as u.s. citizens to be arrested and detained without being charged. that's the reason we fought wars in this country. [cheers and applause] i promise to submit a balanced budget to congress in the year 2013. that is a 1.4 trillion reduction in federal spending. if we don't do this now, we are going to find ourselves in a monetary collapse and a monetary collapse very simply is when the dollars we have in our pockets don't buy a thing because of the acome anying inflation -- because of the accompanying inflation that goes along with

every dollar we spend. i'm the only candidate that wants to eliminate income tax, eliminate corporate tax, abolish the i.r.s. and replace all of that with one federal consumption tax, the fair tax. i think it is the answer to our exports, it is the answer to american jobs. [applause] >> in what way way does the war on drugs impact americans? that was submitted by jeff tanguay via facebook. >> the war on drugs has been an unbelievable tragedy. i remember someone who came to me and his son had been sentenced on his first drug offense to 15 and a half years to a state penitentiary.

on the day president clinton left the white house, he signed a presidential pardon saving cory springfield a decade in a federal penitentiary. there is someone sitting in a federal penitentiary today with a 55-year sentence for selling marijuana on three occasions because the informant said there was a gun around. so a gun enhancement, mandatory gun enhancement from the judge that entered the sentence said

it was an outrage. it was unjust. but 55 years. this is the kind of human toll in this country. we don't just need to legalize marijuana, we need to end drug prohibition, just like we ended alcohol prohibition and treat drug use and abuse as a public health and education issue and get it entirely out of the criminal justice system. [cheers and applause] we have the highest incarceration rate. we have 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prison population. we have more people in prison and in jails in this country on drug offenses than western europe has in their prisons and jails on all offenses. this has to end. we the american people need to come together, right, left, it doesn't matter about partisanship. we need to demand immediately an end to this insane war on drugs. [applause]

>> virgil goode. >> i am an advocate of a balanced budget, and i would cut federal spending on the war on drugs. however, drug use is primarily a state issue, not a federal issue. but this is ven going to set well with most 6 -- with most of you. i am not for legalizing marijuana use or other drug use. if we cut back on the war on drugs, that would be a minor part of the federal budget. about $12 billion is being spent this year out of $3.8 trillion budget on the war on drugs. but i am not for funding planned parenthood. i will take that to zero. i am not for funding -- [crowd boos]

>> we're on drugs. >> i know. but i'm just pointing out how small the federal war on drugs money is in terms of the entire federal government, but i am in favor of reducing it because we have to reduce everything that's generally funded in order to get to a balanced budget. [applause] >> governor johnson, the war on drugs. >> 0% of the -- 90% of the problem is related to inportation not use. 55% of americans support legalizing marijuana. why is this the case? because we are talking about it. because debates are raging at dinner tables that haven't been raging at dinner tables in the past.

let's regulate it. it's on the ballot in colorado in november. coloradoians have the opportunity really to change drug policy worldwide. coloradans get it. six years ago they oat voted to decriminalize marijuana on a campaign based on marijuana being safer than alcohol. i am not a hypocrite on this issue. i have drank alcohol, i have smoked marijuana. i don't drink alcohol, i don't smoke marijuana. i can tell you, in no category is marijuana more dangerous than alcohol. [applause] and yet we are arresting 1.8 million people a year in this country on drug-related crime. we have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. 2.3 million people.

half of what we spend on law enforcement, the court and the prisons is drug related, and to what end. look, this is not about advocating drug use. 50% of kids graduating from high school have smoked marijuana. that's an issue that belongs with families, not in the criminal justice system. [applause] >> anybody have any rebuttal? >> i have to make my statements first, and then my rebuttal. so as a medical doctor previously in clinical practice for about 25 years, i can say with a real understanding of the science of the health impact, that marijuana is it a substance that is dangerous because it's illegal. it is not illegal on account of being dangerous. because it's not dangerous at all. [applause]

it is well known that the impacts of marijuana are dangerous because of the illegal drug trade from marijuana drug prohibition. so the most important thing we can do to get rid of the health problems associated with marijuana is to legalize it. and on day one, on day one a president, if she wanted to, could entrust the d.e.a. to oh, to -- could entrust the d.e.a. to do a really radical thing. that would be to use science in determining what substances will and will not be scheduled. because marijuana is on the schedule. [applause] anded same goes for -- and the same goes for hemp, which is also a substance for which there are no bad drug effects.

there are no bad health and safety effects. yet there are important health benefits. marijuana should be regulated but not in a way that creates more monday applies but allows small businesses to florish. >> rocky. rebuttal. >> i don't know if it's really rebuttal. hem p, why is that illegal? except for those money interests that control our congress. we need to rise up as one and say legalize trillion hem p now. -- legalize industrial hemp now. [applause] >> 40,000 people in prison on

drug charges. now we have over a half billion of our people in prison? i would, as president, create a presidential pardon on everyone that did not commit other crimes from our prisons who were arrested for marijuana. [applause] >> anyone else want to reput? >> when i was governor, a meeting started, i didn't know what to expect. they said, hey, we're here to support you. we would like to share with you a story.

>> only a minute. >> to pass on to others to let others better understand it. they said methamphetamine is really the boogeyman of drugs. people that do methamphetamine do horrible things. by the way, it falls on the poor. it is cheap, it is easy to make. so the consequences fall on the poor. if cocaine were legal, these people would be using cocaine without the negative behavioral impact. what i will tell you about cocaine, and it would be wonderful if the government told the truth, cocaine puts holes in your heart. people that use their cocaine their entire life die from a heart attack. >> one-minute rebuttal. [applause] >> let's be clear about my position on this. unlike gary, unlike rocky, and unlike jill, i'm not for legalizing drugs. if you want that, vote for one of them, don't vote for me.

[applause] >> we remind you, tonight's debate questions were submitted through social media. this question comes from greg salazar from los angeles. do you think an annual military budget of $1 trillion is absolutely necessary to keep us safe? in a broader sense, what do you think should be the role worldwide of the united states military? two minutes, virgil goode. >> as i said, if i'm elected president i will balance the budget, and part of the cuts have to be in the department of defense. we cannot do as mitt romney and paul ryan suggest increase military funding by $2 trillion over the next decade. i support a strong defense. but we need to retrench rather than trying to be the policemen of the world.

we have too many soldiers, too many troopers scattered around the world. our presence needs to be decreased around the world, not increased, and the united states should stop trying to be the overseer of the world. that will save us billions and billions of dollars. [applause] >> all right. governor johnson. >> we need to provide ourselves with a strong national defense. the operative word here is defense, not offense and not nation building. [applause] >> the biggest threat to our national security is the fact that we're bankrupt, that we're borrowing and printing money to the tune of 43 cents out of every dollar we spend. in promising to submit a

balanced budget to congress in the year 2013, that would include a 43% reduction in military spending. how does that go down. a 43% reduction in military spending takes us back to 2003 spending level. it is getting ourselves out of all the military engagements that we are currently involved in. stop with the military intervention. it is reducing the military footprint worldwide. it is troops we have stationed in japan, in south korea, and in europe. it is intelligence. it is research and development. all of these components go into a 43% reduction when it comes to the military. we have to stop our military intervention. we have to stop with the dronse drone strikes. we have to stop with a policy that has us with hundreds of billions of enemies to this country that but for these policies would not exist.

when we talk about foreign aid to other country it is propping up foreign dictators that are on our side as opposed to the other side? we pick winners and losers, and there are a whole lot of unintended consequences that go along with this. right now we are funding the syrian insurgence and they are made up of jihadists? should we not learn anything about where we funded osama bin laden? [applause] >> jill. >> i want to agree with gary and with rocky, and i guess not with virgeyill in this -- virgil in this instance, to say that a foreign policy based on brute military force and wars for oil is making us less secure not more secure. we need to bring the troops home and not the drones. we need to put an end to the use of drones and actually lead. not to lead this development of a new arms race, but to lead in an international treaty and a convention to permanently ban the use of drones as a weapon of war and a means of spying on the american public.

maws applause [applause] $5 trillion spent on the afghan and other wars. this has not made us more secure. what we are seeing is the blowback against this policy. because dropping bombs on wedding and funerals, which is what drones do with an incredibly high civilian casualty rate, that is not a good way to win the hearts and minds of people in the middle east. [applause] we need a foreign policy based on human rights and on fighting climate change which should be

the war that we are all fighting, not this war for oil. [cheers and applause] >> now on the question of military spending, again we have three more questions coming. on military spending, rocky. >> president obama warned the -- he termed it the military industrial congressional complex. for very good reason. these folks vote for massive funding for completely wasteful projects, like the f-22 that the department of defense said we are never going to use it.

it is out-moded. why would we spend billions of dollars on it? and because the contractor had other contractors or sub contractors in 44 different states, and they did it very strategically, these people, the republicans and democrats alike, voted for additional funding. that is treason against our country when our treasury -- treasure is being wasted, when we need that treas write to go to exporting and jobs, and the biggest problem facing our planet and that is climate change. we need to focus on where the real problems are, rather than those who are benefiting from this corrupt system have their stake. now, there are two fundamentals when it comes to our engagement, military engagement. i think our leaders completely are either esconsing or ignoring. first, no wars of aggression. if you haven't been attacked or you are not imminently going to be attacked, to attack is an illegal war of aggression under the united nations charter against the nuremberg -- nuremberg principle.

we convicted under nurmberg for those same crimes. the decision whether to go to war is congress' alone. they have the sole prerogative. it cannot be delicated to the president as congress has so carelessly done. [applause] >> anyone want to rebut? virgil? >> rocky is correct about following the constitution. i would not be in syria unless congress makes a declaration of war. we will not stay in afghanistan if i'm elected president unless congress makes a declaration of war.

only by going through that constitutional process can we ensure that there -- the will of the american people is addressed when we have issues like syria, afghanistan, and iraq. >> gary, this has fobe to be rebuttal. do you want to rebut something, gary? >> i was opposed to going into iraq before we went into iraq. i did not think they had weapons of mass destruction. i felt -- thought if they had weapons of mass destruction, we have the capability to see weapons of mass destruction. if -- afghanistan, i thought that was totally warranted. we were attacked, we attacked back.

i would argue after having been in afghanistan for six months, we wiped out al-qaeda. that was 11 years ago. we should have gotten out of afghanistan 11 years ago. [applause] here we are now on iran. the larblingest demonstration after 9/11 was in iran by over one million citizens that showed up in support of the united states. and we're going to bomb iran? we're going to bomb the citizens of iran? we'll find ourselves with another 100 million enemies to this country that we wouldn't otherwise have. [applause] i think both candidates said they would not bomb iran. this is our fourth question. the question was submitted by tout. let's go to the question on the video.

>> how will kids get a college education in 2030 for nearly $400,000. is college really worth it at that point? and if so, how can you deny this to everyone. >> you probably didn't hear that, but some estimates give the price of a college education at $400,000 in 2030. his question is, is college even worth if at that point? if so, should college be provided to everyone. >> first of all, as governor of new mexico, we established lottery scholarships which allowed really any graduating high school student from new mexico to go to college with those costs paid. so woths what's the federal role, though, when it comes to education, and what's the

primary reason in this country why college division tuition is so high? well, it is because of guaranteed government student loans that because of guaranteed government student loans, no one has the excuse for not going to education. and so because of that, institutions of higher learning, colleges and universities are immune from pricing that if kids would take a harder look at it, gee, i don't think i can afford $15,000 a semester, i think i will just sit this one out. when that happens en masse, i guarantee you, the cost of college tuition will drop dramatically. today that doesn't exist. i can't afford $15,000, yet friends and family will point and say, look, you can get a guaranteed government student loan. that is another one of government's unintended consequences that have college tuition at such a high rate. [applause] >> jill. >> i think it is time to make public higher education free as it should be. [cheers and applause]

we have done this before when our troops came home from the second world war. we provided free higher education through the g.i. bill. and we know that it pays for itself. for every dwhrar that we invested in -- dollar that we invested, $7 was returned in investments into the economy including more than enough revenue to cover the full cost of those tuition payments. [applause] this is something throughout the 20th century. throughout the 20th century, we provided a high school education for free to our younger generation. why? because it was essential for economic security. and we owe it to our younger generation it to give them a secured start into their economic rives. -- economic lives.

in the 21st century a high school degree won't cut it. you need a college degree in order to have economic security. so it is only right that we should now be providing that for free. [applause] >> and while we're at it, it is time to, instead of bail out wall street, which is what the fed is doing now, with qe-3, $40 billion a month to bail out wall street banks again, instead let's bail out the students and do something really useful with that bail out. [cheers and applause] >> on the question of college, rocky. >> thank you. our forebearers set up a system in this country where everyone would have a free secondary education.

that may have been enough then. but for our nation to regain its global competitive edge, we must provide higher education. either college education or technical education. but it is for the future of our country and to meet the ideal in this nation of equality of opportunity that we should provide a free and equal ed calingse indicational opportunity in college -- in college, and do the right thing for our young people. this is not a radical idea. it is done in in many parts of the world, and it pays a huge dividend. as to those dents students who are saddled with enormous tuition debt, it has reached over $1 trillion, more than the entire credit card debt in this country? what does congress do? or their fat cat contribute

tores? they made student debt nondischargeable in bankruptcy. so you can charge a mazerati on your credit card, but if someone ran out and did what they could to get a decent education can't get a new start. so we need to demand congress to allow discharge yanltability in bankruptcy of student debt now. [cheers and applause] >> you might not get what you want to hear from me, but you will get straight talk. we can't afford more federally subsidized student loans and pell grants. i wish i could say we will give you more. a debt of $16 trillion is bearing down on us. and as governor johnson said, we

could well be like germany after world war i. i do not support this, and the person that asked the question on the internet is not going to like it, but we can't afford more pell grants and federally subsidized student loans. we have to balance the budget and decline the debt. [applause] >> anybody have a rebuttal? >> free comes with a cost. [applause] free, very simply is spending more money than what you take in. free is accumulating more than the $16 trillion in debt that we currently have. free has gotten us to the point where we are going to experience a monetary collapse in this country due to the fact that we continue to borrow and print more money than we take in.

free, the federal reserve system in this tun country, the treasury prints money. they give it to the federal reserve. the federal reserve gives it to the bank at zero percent. do they give that to you or i? no. you p -- with no risk whatsoever. this is what has to stop in this country is the notion of "free"" applause there needs to be a level playing field for everybody. [applause] >> in the other rebuttals? >> i disagree with both of them on this. we cannot afford not to provide a great education and equality of opportunity for all our young people and in this country. we need to insist on prosperity, not austerity.

and in a recession, it is not time for these massive spending cuts as called for by polls simpson and both of the people running for president with the major parties. we need to get behind our workers and young people and provide but is going to build this nation in the future -- great jobs in the great first- class education. >> jill. rebuttal, jill. >> i am agreeing with rocky here. we cannot afford not to educate our students. our young degeneration is the greatest resource we have. and their participation in our economy is not just good for them, it is good for all of us. every generation, the economy needs to be rerouted by fresh -- rebooted a fresh imagination and the genius of a new generation.

that does not happen when a generation is locked into being indentured servants. that is what our students are now. we need to bail them out and create free public higher education. rebutal.bottle per >>a >> mitt romney in the last debate said he is for expanding student loans and pell grants for you have four candidates you can look to it that is a big issue. >> civil-rights. it was submitted via social media and is being presented exactly as sent to us. the question comes from melissa on twitter. go around me begin with jill. >> brady stand on -- where do you stand on the ability to detained americans indefinitely

and why? >> it is an outrage that 1021 ndaa was ever passed to start with. it is an incredible betrayal of our civil liberties that the president's has assumed dictatorial rights to put us in prison and his -- at his pleasure without charge or without trial. this is not allowable and is a basic offense against the very foundation of american liberty. it should be repealed. [applause] we must also repeal the president's interpretation of the enforcement act in 2001. the military used at that said

-- youth act that said assassinations are in the power of this president. we need to put an end to assassination. an end to the fisa act which retroactively legalized of more to the wiretapping against legal u.s. citizens. [applause] we need to reapl the -- repealpo stop the persecution of whistle- blowers who blow the whistle on crimes by our government. [applause] >> ten second spirit >> benjamin franklin said if we sacrifice our liberty for security, we will wind up losing both. so let's take back our liberty. that is the foundation of true security. >> rocky, detaining americans

indefinitely. >> i went to law school because i believe as deeply as one can believe it until the rule of law. and justice. the fact that our system of justice can provide for everyone. what we have seen through the bush years and now with president obama has been so absolutely subversive and anti- american. there has been no more anti american act in our history than the ndaa. president obama, in 2009, he asked for the power to indefinitely detained people without charges, without a trial, without legal assistance, and without the right to habeas corpus. we are on the road toward

totalitarianism and that is not an exaggeration. [applause] this one person -- if one person can be determined against whom and under what conditions law passed by congress and our constitution are going to be applied, that spells tyranny. it is the very definition of tyranny. what happened when president obama came into office? he said about our international treaties and our own domestic laws, absolutely forbidding torture, let's forget about those war crimes and move forward and not move backward. what about those who committed countless federal felonies by illegally spied on american citizens? he said let's forget about it. he did the same thing when he was in the united states senate after he promised opposite to everybody before he got the democratic nomination. he voted for retroactive immunity for the telecom

companies to participated in the illegal surveillance program. that shows the utter disregard to the rule of law. we need to demand more of our leaders. [applause] il good.i >> if i were president, i would have vetoed ndaa. >> why can we all be that simple? governor terry >> because, larry, this is pitching oneself to vote for me. so i will try to take advantage of shamelessly pitching myself here. i would veto the act allowing for you and i as u.s. citizens to be arrested and detained without a charge. what is really significant, last december, the aclu can now with the report card on all the

presidential candidates. i apologize for the three others on states that were not in this report card. aclu, take your dedicated to civil liberties and the constitution. a group dedicated to the first 10 amendments of the constitution. this is really important. 24 liberty torches' with the convicts corporate mitt romney and rick santorum had zero the report is out of 24. newt gingrich had four liberty toure just out of 24. barack obama had 16 liberty torch's out of 24. my hero, ron paul, 18 liberty torch's out of 24. and gary johnson had 21 out of 24. [applause] >> okay. [laughter] anybody with a rebuttal?

i guess you all agree on that. we go to question no. six. we will, by the way, have a discussion on this and a two- minute closing can -- closing comments. we will start with a rocky. it was selected by my editorial team. but in the post to facebook, he asks -- we start with a rocky. if you had the opportunity to write one constitutional amendment with an absolute guarantee it would be approved by congress and then following that, what would you a man?

"k8'8'

linda mcmahon opposes making sure that every woman in the state whether the walk into a secular hospital has access to emergency contraception. part of the reason why then there is some support from me amongst women is not only the positions taken on the issue, but linda mcmahon's treatment of women in the business that she ran. she demeans women in the ring. >> thank you. dennis house, you have the next question. it does to congressman murphy. >> you are pro-choice. when do you believe life begins?

>> i do not think government should get in the way of that decision. i know that people have different beliefs on that subject. ultimately, that decision about whether a woman goes through the painful choice is ultimately hers and her doctor's. the republican party is trying to take that choice away from women. we are one vote away from the supreme court from getting them removed. i do not think ultimately that is the way to go. i will fight with every last breath to make sure that the

women of this state have the ability to make that decision on their own. i will fight to make sure that the supreme court does not have enough votes to overturn it roe v. wade. that is a commitment of mind. it is different than the commitment of linda mcmahon. i think life begins at birth. i support our current law that restricts late-term abortions unless the mother's life is at stake. >> congressman murphy and i have a great deal of disagreement. i am absolutely pro-choice. i do not think the choice should be made by the united states government. i am absolutely opposed to a partial birth abortions with the same caveat of congressman murphy. i will not support my party in repealing this law.

i am independent speaker. i will not always vote with party lines. congressman murphy has voted with his party a majority of the time. >> when do you believe life begins? >> i also believe that life begins at birth. >> when you look at these issues that are critical to women, it

is hard to see the differentiation. she will not of the line at opposing supreme court justice that opposes roe v. wade. she will support mitch mcconnell to be her party's leader. he will stop at nothing to stop a woman of's right to choose. she will end contraception coverage for women. they see my record for standing up for women across the state. if you care about protecting the woman a's right to choose, there is only one choice in this campaign. >> mrs. mcmahon. >> congressman murphy continues to mischaracterize what i say.

i have said that i support connecticut's for emergency contraception. women have lost their jobs. more of them are in poverty. more of them are looking for ways to sustain their families. they are worried. they want to make sure our economy will get back on track. the greatest comfort is to know that our economy will be sound again. this is the primary issue facing women today in our state and as well as our country. we need people to go to washington and get our economy back on track. >> our next question will come from kesha grant.

>> we have seen the campaign ads. this race has become vicious. it has become personal. when we look at your campaign ad, are you ever embarrassed of this? >> i think we have a great cross section of our ads on television. it puts forth might positioned and also contrasts with congressman murphy pose a position. when there are issues where he has not been forthcoming, we should draw the attention to the people of connecticut. he had an ad that was a running that talks about -- and this ad had a picture of another country's submarine and not an american submarine. for the people, it was very hurtful.

you need to have honesty in the ads. the purpose of the ads is to create, i believe, but to inform the public about what our positions are. i have had ads that have talked about my plans and how we will put people back to work. it is the primary issue in this a race across the country. i talk about my plan and contrast the fact that i want to lower taxes on the middle class. we will have contrast on the ads ago on television. i will continue to communicate my position with the people of connecticut. >> i'm sorry, so you are saying you are not embarrassed about any of these ads? >> no, we are communicating our message to the folks of connecticut.

>> are you embarrassed about your own ads? >> i thought i would get off easy. our campaign ads show you how little she wants to talk about the issues. linda mcmahon's ads have been vicious and personal. they have been directed at me, my wife, and my family. when i run ads, i talked about the differences between linda mcmahon and i on our professional background and our ideas for the state going forward. i am not running ads attacking her and her family in a way that her ads have attacked me and my family. her campaign was asked at one. after a month of hitting hard and dishes adds, why do you not talk about issues?

her campaign said that would be a senseless exercise. it would be a senseless exercise for her campaign. we need to be talking about the differences between the two of us on the issues. >> i thought that was one minute. >> he has a few more seconds. >> sorry. i do not want to be like mitt romney and complain about the debate rules. we have heard tax policy and supported education. we do have a major difference. ultimately i hope that the last two weeks of this campaign are on those differences.

people see that linda mcmahon stands with a right-wing ideology. >> we have replaced the batteries on our clock. mrs. mcmahon, you have one minute. >> i keep asking congressman murphy to talk about issues. you keep hearing "linda mcmahon." you do not hear what his plan is going to be to put people in our state back to work. you do not hear how he is going to grow the economy because he does not need to talk about his plan. we do not have a solid economy. we have higher taxes. debt has doubled since he has been in office.

we cannot afford six more years of his failed policies. >> congressman. >> that is not true. we have lowered taxes. i do talk about my plan. no matter how many times he repeats it does not make it true. repetition does not equal voracity. my plan is rooted in a middle class tax cut and that end of the bush tax cuts. we need to have new energy security in this nation so we can be the world in energy. we need to put construction workers back on the job. we need to educate the next generation of business creators and job creators across this country. my plan is investing in the

people in the state. no matter how many times linda mcmahon says i do not have a plan does not make it true. let's talk about the differences between our plans. let's talk about the issues that matter to the people of connecticut. >> thank you. mark davis, a question from you for congressman murphy. >> this question came from a colleague of mine at abc news. let's see how you do. can you please say something nice about your opponent? [laughter] >> not sure if i will need the full two minutes for this. linda mcmahon is a driven person.

when she sets her mind to something, she has shown that she can accomplish that. she has over the last several years made some substantial investments in connecticut charities. that has done some good things for people. i give her credit on both of those accounts. you are right. these campaigns tend to be very personal. i think people are tired of these. people want it to be bought issue differences. they are sick and tired of the campaign's being personal. they see that extended over and to government. people in washington do nothing but fight while they are trying to find a way to get along. co-workers try to find a way to get along. they do not see that happening in washington. i decided to stop complaining about the personal politics. i decided to try to do something

about it. democrats and republicans should come together. i get it. it is not revolutionary. we need to let people to washington who will start working on bringing the two parties together. i am proud of the work i have gone in the house of representatives. i want to do more work in the senate. i am happy to admit that there are definitely some nice things i could say despite our disagreements. >> mrs. mcmahon. >> the best thing about congressman murphy are his two little boys. they are so cute. i am a grandmother. i can imagine the pride that he has in watching them every day and want to have the best for them. i noticed this about congressman murphy and his little boys. i congratulate him and his wife for having such a nice family. i am sure that he would like to make sure that the future for

those young boys will be bright and have even better opportunities he had an for the next generation to come. that is why i am focusing so much in this based on what is wrong with our economy today. i will keep going back to it because it is what is pulling down our middle class. that is why i won a tax cut for the middle class. i want to make sure that his little boys, my grandchildren, have the same opportunity in america to succeed. that is what this race is about. i wonder if my grandchildren will have the same opportunities that the grandfather had what our debt was under control and when we were spending more than we are making. i do not want that to be our legacy to them.

i want my legacy to them to be that have the american promise for opportunity in. i remember when we lost everything we had and had to file for bankruptcy. we had to start over. we were able to because of the opportunities this country offered us. we want to make sure that children have the opportunity. >> chris murphy, you have another minute to say nice things. [laughter] >> i appreciate that, mrs. mcmahon. we are really proud of them. i do not take a lot of credit for how wonderful they are. i give the credit to my wife. my reason for running it is rooted in those same stories.

my mother rose to the middle class from poverty. mrs. mcmahon and i just disagree on how to do the. i think you need to support education and job training. support in like public housing and programs that can make their families whole. our rationales for running is similar, but we are different and how to make that change. >> mrs. mcmahon, you have one minute is a warm and fuzzy things about congressman murphy. [laughter] >> we do have a different philosophy.

middle class. i would keep the other tax brackets the same. we need to get our debt in line and our economy back on track. it does not happen by the regulations that have passed in washington. it happens by encouraging our middle class and let our job creators and our small businesses flourish. our economy will then grow. as long as we stay in debt, we will not come out of this recession. >> thank you. we are getting close to the end of the hour. we will switch things up a bit. i will ask you a question.

each of you have one minute to answer and one minute rebuttal. foreign policy. this will go to mrs. mcmahon. a governor went to china recently to discuss business for the state of connecticut. but there are a lot of people who complained about china policy influence in the world, geopolitical and economic. do you see them as an ally or a rival to the united states? >> this is relative to china and businesses in our state. china is our fifth export in connecticut. i do think the chinese need to respect our intellectual property laws, which they do not. they take our products and manufactured a similar version and sell it at cheaper prices.

we cannot allow china to manipulate its currency. >> congressman -- ally or rival? >> both. we have let china get away with murder when it comes to policy. the currency is manipulated. we should call them out for it. this is critical. the federal government is outsourcing our own work in the department of defense to chinese companies. we need to stop that and keep jobs here at home. listen, i think our histories are not relevant here. linda mcmahon has outsourced work at wwe to places in china. >> he talks about this, but i have been around our state.

i have talked to companies who are threatened with the knockoffs that china does. they're finding that they are painting those products and sending it right back. we need to make sure the and not manipulating the currency. we need to make sure that they are not infringing on our intellectual property. we should use them as a trading partner, but we do need to have fair trade. >> congressman, you have one minute also. >> she has this line that i

voted against the measure. i voted for the amendment. she attacks the on this issue because she does not want to tell you that she does not believe in the measure. she does not believe we should advance connecticut companies with taxpayer contracts. there are companies right here in connecticut who are losing jobs as we speak because we do not have people in congress who are standing up for american laws. there is 600,000 jobs in this country that could be created if we had stronger laws for those workers who are desperate for a paycheck. that is not a slogan, but a solution. >> very good. we had a separate coin toss earlier on the issue of closing statements and order. the result of the coin toss is at the first closing statement

will come from linda mcmahon. >> thank you for joining us today. the voters of connecticut will have a choice in november. it is a choice between someone who create jobs and has plans to and best for you and some was never created a job and has no plan for those people who are out of work in our state. this is the most important issue in this election. you'll have a choice between someone who cannot be bought and between someone who has already taken special interest money. my opponent is to hold public office. i will make sure that our kids and grandkids have a better opportunity than we did. i am asking you to make history

in november and the first woman from connecticut to sit in the united states senate. i am a woman that cannot be bought. i will work for you. i am linda mcmahon. i am asking for your vote on november 6. >> congressman murphy. >> my parents taught me that if there is a fight that matters, you cannot sit on the sidelines. i have dedicated myself to fighting for the middle class. i fight for tax cut for them and standing up for manufacturing jobs. i have been in the middle of some of the biggest fights that have mattered in the state. what makes the contrast between me and linda mcmahon so clear is that she has not only sat on the sidelines, but she has made things works. she has outsourced work and sells sex and violence to our kids. linda mcmahon has never been there for us, but i have. i hope i have lived up to the challenge that my parents laid out for me.

it would be my honor to continue that work as your united states senator. >> thank you. we hope this debate has helped the voters as they ponder their final decision in this election. we urge you to vote on election day. i want to thank our candidates, chris murphy and linda mcmahon, and our reporter panel -- al terzi, dennis house, kesha grant, and mark davis. also, the hilton hartford hotel. and our sponsor, the connecticut broadcasters association. i'm steve kotchko. thank you for being with us. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> is time for our lightning round. questions that can only be answered yes or no. be asked to refrain from explanations or anything besides yes or no.

>> we are going to be starting with you. would you like to become if elected, senate majority leader? >> what i like to be senate majority leader? sure. [laughter] >> senator. >> yes. >> heavy fired a gun or rifle within the past year? >> yes. >> senator. >> no. >> i am going to say he is not what his father was. >> have you read 50 shades of gray? [laughter] >> no. >> need neither for the record. -- me neither for the record.

>> followed the key races on c- span, c-span radio and at c- span.org/campaign2012. >> our coverage of the presidential candidates. in key races throughout the country. in a few moments, the debate among the presidential candidates of will libertarian party, the green party, the constitution party in the justice party. and then washington journal focuses on the african american votes. and on the state of florida. several of the events today. beginning with a news briefing with defense secretary leon panetta. that is at 10:30 a.m. eastern. kabul political events this afternoon including gop vice- presidential candidate paul

ryan. he will talk about the economy and job creation at 2:20 p.m. eastern. and just before 5:00 p.m., we will show president obama a's rally in denver. he will also be in iowa and nv. >> this weekend book tv stops in austin texas. to cover the texas book festival. hear from former abc news head david westin, douglas brinkley, walter cronkite. and robert draper side the house of representatives. the texas book festival live on

book tv on c-span 2. >> and now a debate among the president of candidates, the libertarian party, the green party, the constitution party and the justice party. hosted by the elections foundation. this 90 minute event is moderated by the foundation's founder.

>> we are here in chicago, our viewers watching and listening on line, our candidates come up local correspondent, broadcasting partners and sponsors, to every individual taking the time to watch this historic debate tonight, no matter where you are turning in, no matter what party or group to which you belong, this debate is for individuals. the voter, the taxpayer, the hard wrecking middle-class worker, the struggling single parent on minimum wage. the small-business owner, everyone. i am christina tobin. and i welcome and thank all of you for being here tonight. tonight we are all taking part in something good and real and honest and open, without debate contracts and private interest controlling. [applause]

without them controlling the questions we ask and the answers the candidates deliver, free, open and fair. free and equal work to improve the united states are bringing it back to the people. we did this by opening the debate and proving ballot access laws to unite people and organizations across the political spectrum who also went free, open and fair elections. tonight's debate is the first of its kind. and our sponsors represent a diverse group. and people were presenting all types of ideologies. i imagine our audience is just as diverse. tonight you will meet four candidates. to lean more to the left, to lean more to the right.

these candidates secured enough about lines to be here today. in the future, we have to have more resources so it can open this further with more debates, more candidates at every level of government. [applause] ultimately, we the people are responsible for our government. if we do not pay attention, if we do not vote, do not protest or discuss court issues with friends, co-workers and classmates, we get more of the same, the more corrupt, dysfunctional system is not sure who is in charge. if we turn a big distractions and listen and learn, and read and question more about who is really benefiting. and educate ourselves on how -- and figure out how each of us can make a positive impact, that

is a way to change a system, knowledge, sharing, open debates, fresh ideas and discovering a common ground amongst each other. no matter what the political persuasion, we are at a critical time in our nation's history. [applause] >> thank you for joining us. our moderator this evening is award winning broadcaster and media personality, larry king and. [applause] his new online home -- and he as the host of larry king and now. welcome, larry.

>> welcome everybody. i think all voices should be heard. a few notes about the format for tonight's debate. a really easy job for me. it is a rather simple format. each candidate will have 8 two minute opening statement. six questions will be asked and all in the 90 minutes. the questions have been selected from submissions, mainly social media. after the question is asked, each candidate will have a two minister answered each candidate will have a total of six opportunities and all. once all quarter candidates give their two minute responses, the will each have an additional one minute to expand or not expand, they can reachoose to respond or not. they can save their time to use it later. we will wrap up with a two

minute closing statement from each candidate. with a that let me introduce these are true independent candidates. first joe stein, a longtime teacher of a internal medicine. -- jill stein. as an already tile, we are permitting audience participation. we are in a downtown chicago. next is rocky anderson, the justice party nominee. [applause] next is half virgil hamilton.

and finally gary johnson. [applause] and gary is the libertarian party nominee. the first question is are a mature system. this is from the free and equal elections foundation posting this debate and will be asked by christina tobin. >> thank you. we will start from the left to the right. here is our question. a top two primary is an election in which party labels appear on the ballot, but parties do not nominate candidates. instead, the candidates choose their own ballot label. all candidates run in the primary, but only the top two

vote getters appear on the ballot in the november election. the system is p currently used in louisiana, washington state, and california. it is now a ballot member prop 21. what is your position on the top two primary system and why? >> we'll start with jill stein. >> thank you. and thank you so much to free & equal, and thank you for being here. i think top two does not enlarge our democracy. in many ways, it confuses things more. it puts many candidates onto the ballot all together, and it arbitrarily attaches party labels to them. any candidate can choose any label they want. so it really degrades the

meaning of our political parties, where they have meaning, and i know they don't always, but there are some that do have meaning that aren't bought and sold to the highest bidder, and the green party is one of those parties. and i know there are some other parties here as well, the independent parties, where the parties actually represent real values. and the top two obscures the meaning of those parties, and it puts everyone together, so you really can't tell who is representing you, and whoever hats the biggest budget stands to win that primary -- whoever has the biggest budget stands to win that primary, and it becomes another way that big money can control our electrics. so i oppose top two, as the green party does, and we actually support a whole variety of election reforms for the purpose of enlarging our democracy, not increasing the

sellout of our democracy. we are calling for getting money out of politics through public financing. we're calling for opening up the airwaves to all qualified candidates. >> 10 seconds. zwr we would like to clarify that money is not speech and that corporations are not people to take back our constitutional rights. [applause] >> next, for two minutes, rocky anderson. >> the top two system is simply a continuation of the degradation of our democracy by this monopoly of the republican and democratic parties. our democracy is so degraded by these two parties from the beginning in terms of ballot access, in terms of getting on the ballot so you can give

people choices. this top two item says you can put your own candidates out there. you can even have two people from the same political party, and that means no choice for the voters. [cheers and applause] last night and in all these vice-presidential debates, look how convictive the debate has -- constrictive the debate has been when you have two parties there. they are arguing about who is going to spend more on the military budget? barack obama bragging that he's increased the military budget every year they are in office? they are trying to out-do each other in terms of who will drill more both off shore and on public lands, and neither of them cares to talk about

getting rid of this disastrous war on drugs. neither of them talk about poverty. when we have the worst poverty rate in this country since 1965. we need to open up the choices. in south africa the world rejoices at the growth of their democracy falling apart. the first ballot in the presidential election that had 18 people's names on it. that's real democracy, and that's giving the voters real choice. [applause] >> rocky, one quick question. when you were mayor, what party were you in? >> i was in the democratic party, but it was a nonpartisan, but i've had it with the democratic party. [applause] >> virgil goode, what party were you in? >> always conservative.

>> your response to the initial question. >> thank you, larry. first i want to say thanks to your being here for lending your name and your prestige to this event, and to thank free & equal for their hard work in bringing a much broader vision to the american people so they will know that they have more choices than just obama and romney. >> i do not favor the top two system. i agree with jill, as she said, money is not speech, and the top two system enhances those that have the most money. however, i was not in favor of $100 million at the democratic national convention of taxpayer money, $100 million to the

republican convention of taxpayer money. [applause] >> the top two system is primarily a state issue. i would not be in favor of federal legislation rebealing appealing what louisiana has done or telling virginia or telling maine or telling arizona or new mexico any state what they should do. but we have to work in every state and every legislator and oppose top two. in my view, it is a hindrance to true democracy for grassroots americans that don't want to be controled by p.a.c.s. [applause] >> and our final speaker on this topic, i know you were a republican as governor of new mexico.

gary johnson, your response. >> well, running for governor of new mexico as a republican, i ran completely outside of the political system, completely. and i went and i introduced myself to the republican party two weeks before iran, and they said, you know what? we like you, we like what you have to say. we are completely inclusive. you can go and make your case to all republicans in the state, take part in the debates, take part in the discussions. that's the way politics should be. i was able to make that presentation. i was able to make that case. by the way, the republican party chairman at that time said, you can do all this stuff, but you just need to know that you will never get elected because it is not possible to get elected governor in the state that's 2-1 democrat. well, i did get elected. so as governor of new mexico, completely outside of the political system, i have always

been pro-choice regarding everything. so should this be a top two candidate voting system? this should be something that gets ferreted out at the local level, at the state level, not at the national level. there are only a couple voices being heard here, and it is tweedle dee and it is tweedle dum. it is two candidates talking about who is going to spend so much medicare, when you and i put in three times more than what you get out. it is not sustainable. yet, it is indicative of our federal government today, which is on an unsustainable path, the results of with are going to be an monetary collapse unless we actually bring this under control. as a third party candidate i have been given the opportunity here to make the case that's not being made by either of the two

major candidates. >> thank you, governor. quheers cheers [applause] >> a lot of people asked me why i would consent to do this. one, i like moderating, and two, i like asking questions, even though i didn't ask these questions. they were submitted. and three, i think these people deserve a lot of credit for coming forward. it is easy to sit baeserve to b. [applause] >> each is now entitled to a one-minute response if they care to use it. jill? >> yeah, thank you. i just want to mention, talking about how all of us need to stand up and demand real democracy and demand free and open and inclusive debate. i just want to mention that my running mate and i went to the door step of the commission on

presidential debates at hoffstra university last week and that we were arrested, we were tightly bound with plastic restraints, and tied to chairs for eight hours for daring to stand up and demand demand open debates. this is what all of us need to do. i encourage you to go to my web site, jillstein.org and sign the petition there on challenging the commission on presidential debates. we should not let them do this again. [applause] >> rocky, one minute. >> the top two system is a sign that these two parties, the political duopasy in this country is trying to further put their strangle hold on our democracy. we have to stand up. in federal elections, it is a federal matter. we should not leave it to the

steps. the corrupting influence of money in this country is at the root of every major public policy disaster. it is why we don't have health care for all, as in the rest of the industrialized world. it is why we aren't providing international leadership on the climate crisis because of all the corrupting money coming from the fossil fuel industry, and it is why we have this enormously wasteful military budget with this military industrial complex putting pressure on congress and the white house. >> five seconds. >> so we need public financing of elections for our democracy. we need free and equal access to the public airways. >> thank you. >> virgil, one minute. >> thank you. the top two system, as others have indicated, favor the super p.a.c. and the political action committees. they are political action committees not just of business

but of unions. i am for no political action committees. individual contributions only and no super p.a.c.s. i believe congress can craft legislation with presidential leadership to stop political action committees. big money that funnels through the p.a.c. is the greatest hindrance, in my opinion, to free and open elections and freedom and democracy in this country. we threw out the king at the time of the revolution because of leafy handedness. -- because of heavy handidness and we need to stand up and throw out the political action committees. [applause] >> this is a one minute response. you can use it or not use it, governor. >> i think when it comes to political campaign contributions that candidates should be required to wear jackets commensurate. [applause]

>> what is really needed is 100% transparancy. i will tell you, whether or not romney or obama gets elected, three things will happen. we will continue to find ourselves with a continued heightened police state in this country. we will find ourselves continuing to intervene in the world which has resulted in hundreds of millions of enemies to this country that wouldn't otherwise exist. there is a reason why we shouldn't be using drones. it is because we don't just take out the target, we take out a lot of innocent civilians in these countries where these drones attack. [cheers and applause] and then lastly, we will find ourselves in a continued state of unsustainable spending and borrowing to the point that we are going to experience a

monetary collapse unless we fix this. >> thank you, governor. [applause] >> tonight's second question, all questions submitted by social media were submitted by jeff tanguay of colorado via facebook. question, in what way does the war on drugs impact americans and how could these effects be reduced. is there a more efficient way to do deal with the issue of drug use in america. two minutes. jill stein. >> rocky first. >> how about opening statements? >> did we have opening statements? >> unfortunately, no. >> grassroots. >> i didn't know we had opening statements. i thought we went right to the questions. >> let's go with our opening statements. two minutes each.

two minutes each. >> ok. this will be opening statements, and then we will go to the second question. >> from jill stein. thank you, larry. >> go ahead, jill. >> great. always glad to lead. [cheers and applause] >> the american people are in crisis. we are losing our jobs, decent wages, our homes by the millions, affordable health care and education. the climate is in meltdown, and our civil liberties are under attack. the wealthy few are richer than ever rolling in more doe than ever, and the -- dough than ever, and the political establishment is not making it better, imposing insanity on everyday people while they continue to squander trillions trillions of dollars on boring for oil we don't need, on wall street bail outs, and tax

breaks for the very wealthy. [applause] the american people are at the breaking pt. and we need to turn that breaking point in this election into a tipping point to take back our democracy, and see the green future that we deserve, and we do that by standing up and making sure that everyday people have a voice in this election and a choice at the polls that is not bought and paid for by wall street and by advancing the critical solutions that the american people are clamoring for by large majority. our campaign is calling for a green new deal to create $25 million jobs and unemployment. jump start the green economy. and that means putting a whole new climate change and making war for oil obsolete.

we're calling for health care for human rights, for medicare for all, and for bailing out the students, not the banks and making public -- [applause] >> governor, it was not in my notes about an opings oh, opening statement. so i apologize. i follow my notes. i'm a jewish guy from brooklyn. we do what we're told. >> frankly, people are here to listen to you than us. [laughter] >> we are at a pivotal point in our nation's history. young people are burdened with crushing tuition debt. millions of families have lost their homes. requirement accounts have been decimated while wall street fat cats who are buying our elections have made out like bandits. we have never had the disparity

of income and wealth that we see between the very wealthy and all the rest of us since the 1920's. our poverty rates have never been so high as 1965. child poverty. and infant mortality rates are next to the worst in the world. the united states has the worst rate of industrialized nations of women dying in connection with pregnancy and childbirth. under obama care there will be 30 million people without essential health care by the year 2022. and during the bush and the obama years our constitution has been shredded while the impeerl presidency -- the imperial presidency expanded. the presidents that think they can take us to war on a pack of lies. with presidents that think federal government should have the authority to round anyone up, including u.s.

citizens, and imprison them without charges, without trial, without legal representation, and without the right of habeous corpus. and our elected officials are sound asleep when the pentagon is warning that climate change is a greater long-term security risk to the united states than terrorism. so if you like the way things are going, vote democratic or republican. if you want real change, vote your conscience, vote justice. economic justice, social justice, environmental justice. [cheers and applause] >> back to our opening statement from virgil goode. >> thank you, larry. i want to say thank you jill, gary, and rocky for being here. on the four issues i will address right now, you can deduce my positions of what i think.

i will name afour positions in which i am very different from barack obama and mitt romney. first, obama and romney both claim that they were and still are for a balanced budget. reality. the obama budget this year was $1 trillion in deficits. the paul ryan budget which passed the u.s. house was $600 billion in deficit. i have the courage to submit a balanced budget if i'm elected president right after i'm inaugurated. secondly, i am for jobs and america for american citizens first, and the only candidate that has called for a near card admissions to the united states until unemployment is under 5%. it makes no sense to bring in so many foreign workers when our unemployment is so high in this country. [applause] secondly, third, we --

>> running low on time. >> we need the super p.a.c.s and political action committees, that would be one of the things to open up our country for greater process and greater voice by the people, and finally, we need term limits. it is time to do the best job in congress instead of the election and fund raiser. [applause] >> now an opening statement from governor johnson. >> the country is in really deep trouble. we should not bomb iran. [applause] we should end the war in afghanistan tomorrow. bring the troops home tomorrow. [cheers and applause] marriage equality is a constitutionally guaranteed right on par with civil rights of the 1960's. let's end the drug wars.

legalize marijuana now. [applause] let's repeal the patriot act. [cheers and applause] i would have never signed the national defense authorization act allowing for you and i as u.s. citizens to be arrested and detained without being charged. that's the reason we fought wars in this country. [cheers and applause] budget to congress in the year 2013. that is a 1.4 trillion reduction in federal spending. if we don't do this now, we are going to find ourselves in a monetary collapse and a monetary collapse very simply is when the dollars we have in our pockets don't buy a thing because of the acome anying because of the acome anying inflation --