will offer a good deal longer than some actually think. memorial's like this beautiful memorial in which we are having the ceremony and days of remembrance like this, try as we might, will never be able to adequately recognized for service and sacrifice. we can thank you for what you have done for our nation. we can thank you for your service. we can thank you for being with us today. we can thank you and your families and your supportive friends for being with you here today. we can thank all of you for your continued support of your nation's military. god bless our men and women in uniform and their families. god bless our united states of america. thank you so very much for your service. thank you. [applause]

>> explore the history and literary culture of new york capital city, albany, this weekend on booktv on c-span2. next, a forum on monday slavery and human trafficking. then a discussion about the state of public health in the u.s.. after that, the weekly address as a president obama and florida senator mark rubio. -- addresses of president obama and florida. tomorrow on "washington journal," stan collender and douglas holtx-eakin. an update on the situation in syria. "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> the supreme court will look at what was passed in 2008 by a majority of 6-3, and they will

say, that is president. india -- indiana voter id. >> they will decide the indiana case, it was constitutional for them to establish. they did not say that all of those states -- >> they talked about indiana. let me finish. you are rupert -- you're misrepresenting what i am saying. the supreme court is a lot of the land. >> when i hear these accusations of black people, boehner i.t. loss -- voter id laws, disproportionately affected minorities, it seems that we are

what are you telling black people? that is what bothers me about a lot -- about a lot of the rhetoric coming from democrats, that we have to make special -- there has to be a specialness when we deal with minorities because they're too feeble- minded. we need to make concessions for them because they cannot follow the rules like everybody else. when you treat people like victims, then i do not think they want to aspire. >> more with the editor and publisher of conservative blackchick.com. sunday night at 8:00 on a c- span2 "-- c-span2 n/a." "q +a."'s this forum about modern-day slavery was part of an international conference hosted by yale university. [applause]

>> good morning. what a full room. i get you first thing in the morning, so hopefully your minds are fresh and excited for the day. i am really delighted to be here to deliver the opening remarks for this very important conference. , to professor blight for the great introduction. i remain very humbled by the recognition of frederick douglass book prize a couple years ago. that really meant a lot to me. it really validated a lot of what i was trying to do. david said i have been working on this issue for quite some time. i started what has now become many years of traveling around the world, researching. directly documenting people in forms of bondage and slavery and

gathering an extensive amount of data. i have just come back from asia, yet another research trip, and after that trip, i have not currently documented the cases of more than 1300 people who we would say are caught in various forms of modern-day slavery. i am saying that only because there is some new information i will share with you. i wanted to know it is based on this research and based on the cases i have documented. you can still challenge me and ask questions. the focus of this conference will could not be more important or timely. we have a very diverse array of individuals on the panel's. we are all seeking to better understand and tackle this issue of slavery more effectively. what is slavery in the modern era, and how does it relate to past forms of slavery? some might ask the question, do we still have slavery today?

have we corrupted this term for other means and ends? these are some of the questions that i hope we will be able to tackle this weekend. i hope my remarks this morning will help frame this conference as well as a look to slavery across the centuries and look to the future and predict what we might be in the years to come. back start by going centuries to a phenomenon that just about all of you will most likely be familiar with, and that is of course the north atlantic slave trade. i spent some time in nigeria documented victims of human trafficking, really challenging. -- are really challenging and terrific scenario. a culture of poverty, oppression, organized crime, people traffic in some of the most horrific ways you can imagine, men and women, boys and girls. from a historical standpoint, i took a visit to this town, a two

hour drive from the capital. from here, the portuguese built 510 years ago one of the first slave outposts on the coast. that is the kind of as instructor from five centuries ago. records show that more than half a million west africans were brought into this building and then taken out to the beach where they were taken into large vessels and taken to the americas. more than half a million during the centuries of the north atlantic slave trade. it is very important to note that just as many if not more people were taken the other way. the north atlantic trade in slaves get a lot of attention, but the asia-pacific trade gets much less attention. many were taken the other way, particularly after the passage of the 1833 slavery abolition

act in england, which specifically excluded the territories of the east india trading company. south asia and india became a new source of trafficking for slaves. they used bonded labor and bondage contracts as a way to avoid deeds of sale of human being. a huge movement of people across centuries in all kinds of directions. some we know quite a bit about. some we do not. how does this relate to what is going on today? i want to start at that question by reading to you a little bit. i will read to you briefly to go narratives. the first comes from somebody that and you'll be familiar with. i would encourage you to read this text, it is called "the interesting narrative of olaudah

-- he was traffic into slavery in the americas, and he eventually got his freedom. he was very bright and articulate, and he became a pivotal figure in the british abolition movement. he wrote his narrative. i want to read you just a piece of that. he writes -- the first object which saluted my eyes when i arrived on the coast was the see and the slave ship which was riding at anchor and waiting for its cargo. these filled me with astonishment which was soon converted to terror when i was carried on board. i was immediately handled and tossed out -- but to seek -- up to sea. i was persuaded that i had gotten into a world of bad spirits and that they would kill me. the complexion's being so different from ours, the long hair, and the language they

spoke, which was very different from any i heard, united to confirm in me disbelief. if 10,000 world's had been my elena, i would have freely parted with all of them to have exchanged my condition with that of the meanest slave in my country. at last, when the ships we were in had all their cargo, they made ready with many fearful noises, and we were all put under the deck so we could not see how they managed the vessel. this disappointment was the least of my sorrow. the stench of the hold was so intolerable we will some that it was dangerous to remain there for any time -- intolerably loathsome that it was dangerous to remain there for any time on end. the closest -- the closeness of the place and the heat of the

climate added to the number of the cher -- on the ship that each -- the air became unfit for breeding. -- for breathing. this wretched situation was again aggravated by the ball and chains, and the filth of the necessary tubs into which the children often fell and were often suffocated. the shakes of the women rendered the whole scene almost inconceivable. this is remarkably potent language in describing what it was like to be traffic into a slave ship a couple of centuries ago. now i will read you just briefly from a case a documented

two years ago in bangladesh. my name is mustafa. we are very poor, and it is very difficult to find work. many recruiters come to the village. they promised they can arrange work and construction in other countries for very good wages. first, we have to pay a fee of around $5,000 for training and documents. i did not have these funds, so i took a loan, which they said i could repave from my wages once i am working. after some months, we were given documents, and agents arranged travel for us. more than 20 of us were put inside the container at the bottom of the ship. it was dark, but we were provided tortoise. we were only allowed outside of the container -- provided torches. we were only allowed out of the

container at night. it was very hot, and the smell was very bad. for toilet, we had a small bucket. most of us became a very sick. i think it was nine days, our journey. from there, we were taken to journeys -- to dormitories. they were very crowded. we slept on nats. each morning at 4:00, we were taken to the construction sites by bus. my work was with cement. we had to usually work until 7:00 or 8:00 at night. if we did not work hard enough, the bosses would beat us. we had to ask permission to urinate. we were only given to the meals of rice each day. then we were taken back inside the dormitory. i did this work for seven months, and i did not receive any wages. essentially, the police arrested me, and i was deported. take note of some of the very interesting similarities of these journeys, separated by centuries, but there are also

some very important differences in the nature and economics and the logic of what was happening to these people. that is what i want to focus in on it today. i had a master slide here, drawn from all the data i had gathered of a comparison of what you see in the old world and new world. i put some general trends, all of which have exceptions, and it is important to note. slave trading, he and trafficking, in the old world, you had long, expensive attorneys. today, you have short, inexpensive journeys. you can move at just about anything to the small -- to the other side of the world very easily. in the old world, it was a limited opportunity to monetize the exploitation of the slave, usually with agriculture work, maybe construction as well. today, people are exploited in dozens of industries that are linked to the global economy.

the section that is very important -- i have gathered an extensive amount of data across the world, and by my calculation, the weighted average cost of a traffic slipped 200 years ago in 1810 was between $4,900.50 $900. there is a wide variance. -- $4,900 and $5,900. there are documents in bengal of people being sold for less than a cup of tea. many people were born into service. what is the cost of that? not too much. the average cost, the weighted average cost, has dropped precipitously. a calculated -- and how to light today the average is around $440. -- i calculate today the average

is around $440. for sexual exploitation, a little more than 1900 dollars. you can still have people born into bondage and servitude today. you can have a victim of sex trafficking in western europe. the immediate economic consequence of this, appreciation and cost, it is an increase in return on investment, particularly when tied to the fact that you can exploit people in dozens of industries. the old world, calculated, roughly 15% or 20% return on investment. today, 300% or 400%. it might be well beyond that. the duration of exploitation has changed. because of a large capital investments and the slow return, you could maintain and exploit people across the lifetimes.

today, six months, one year, a couple years, it is much shorter. of course, very importantly, centuries ago, you could legally own human being is. today, you cannot actually legally own human believe -- beings. i have already used a lot of terms, slavery, human trafficking, and i have not told you what they mean. the reason for that is that some of these terms, most of these terms remain unclear. there's a lot of debate whether you talk to prosecutors, law enforcement, people in the international arena as to what slavery means. what does forced slavery mean? what does human trafficking mean? it depends on where you are in the world and who you are asking. early declarations -- early definitions of slavery depends on legal ownership.

i have at the definitions here. you can look them up on line. basically, focusing on actual power you exert over somebody by owning them. as i said, these legal rights do not exist. what is slippery today? across the last several decades, definitions of slavery have a focus on the conditions that are similar to those that existed when there were legal rights of slavery, namely the question of involuntary labor and services and the absence of a person's freedom of movement and employment. there is a spectrum of what the absence means, and that is when it gets down to a perspective or liberal you want to be on things like abortion and restriction of liberte -- coercion and restriction of liberty. depending on what court you are in or who you're talking to, the extent will differ.

the greater extent of coercion, the narrower definition of slavery would be. finally, i would note that in many cases, the term of forced labour has come to be used in place of slavery, and for various reasons, the primary one was to draw a distinction between cattle slavery -- chattel slavery, but exploiting -- extracting a certain form of exploitation. there is still a debate, what is the right term? which is a more responsible term? then we get to this tournament trafficking which tends to muddle things up little bit. depending on who you are asking and where you are in the world, the definition will differ. i put up the standard definition, you'll notice the last couple of words includes removal of organ.s

-- removal of organs. other countries do not include organs. some countries will include things like forced marriage. other countries do not, in terms of what counts as exploitation. depending on where you are, the definition of what human trafficking is will differ. i want to one pac this definition a little bit and give you the essence -- unpack this definition a little bit and give you the essence. the first is this process or action, the recruiting or movement. it has to occur for a particular means, forced coercion, and then before a particular purpose, which is the bucket list of many forms of exploitation. basically, the upside is, people who are fraudulently -- fraudulently recruited for exploitation.

in trying to define slavery in the contemporary context we have to get clear on what the essence of these modern forms of slavery art. i posted questions for us to consider -- is slavery some degree of restriction on liberty coupled with severe coercion of labor and service? is that the gist? is it something more conceptual, the denial of freedom and humanity of an individual who is being completely exploitable? taking a step back and thinking conceptually, is that what we mean when we talk about slavery? can this concept and all of its myriad manifestations in the modern world even be captured by a simple and agreed upon definition? one thing is clear -- a decision needs to be made as to whether the term slavery should be restricted to me just chattel slavery.

or whether we can take this term and adapt it to the modern context. these are some of the pivotal questions that many scholars are tackling. without clarity of definition, efforts to understand, document, research, quantify, and ultimately combat slavery will remain minimally affected. a few more -- effective. your considerations. when we talk about slavery and we get excited about trying to define it, we have to remember, this is not just an academic exercise. there are real people who are suffering real and horrific explications every day. our ability to identify, protect, and empower these individuals will be directly tied to the nature and precision

of our definition. if the definition is not clear, we cannot clearly identify people. or punish the exploiters. the narrower the definition, the fewer people that can qualify. the broader the definition, the more protected we can be in our approach. there is a delicate balance that is still being worked out in the community as to the pier academic rigor and wanting to be narrow and precise and the human-rights implications. i think this tension is important and one that has the work itself out. there is one of balsa i want to clarify. -- falsehood i want to clarify. whatever definition you use, there is not more slavery today than there was a historically. this is not true. when people say this, they are either comparing also is around the world -- all the slaves

around the world today compared to chattel slaves in history. italy bought apples to apples, we have to cut all the slavery's -- all the slaves -- if we count apples to apples, we have to count all slaves in all forms for all times. it is important to note that of course slavery is a legal and morally unacceptable today, which has not been the case for the majority of human history. the existence of what ever number, millions or more of the slaves today, represents a substantial failing for all of us. ok, i am going to give you some numbers. i will cheat. i am not going to go into the

specific definition. that is in my book. it would take me too much time to get into the nuances and footnotes. the definition has to do with restrictions of liberty and a portion of services. i had been gathering data for more than a decade now. i take my definition in my most current book, and i say, a if issue this broadly, the numbers will look like this. if we are more narrow in what we mean by terms like coercion and restrictions of liberte, the next slide shows you those numbers. the upshot is this. i built a 95% confidence interval. i can tell you that the number of slaves in the world at the end of last year is somewhere between 28.4 and 38.6, divided into these three main buckets. the mean of that interval is

broadly 30.5 million. if you restrict it and you eliminate certain things like seasonal debt bondage and certain forms of trafficking where it is not clear that the person is under the same dress or coercion that some of these scenarios, then the numbers drop. there are a large number of seasonal laborers. many economists will argue that these are voluntary agreements. i do not agree. this is the argument. we have to recognize that. the numbers drop. the mean is 22.4 million. by my calculation, i think there is probably somewhere between 22,000,030 million people caught in these three forms of slavery, but that does not mean -- 22,000,030 million people caught in these forms -- in these three forms of slavery -- 22 million and 30 million people caught in

these three forms of slavery. what are the forces that are promoting this system? what are the forces that are causing their to be slaves in the world? you can divide these intercourses that supply potential slaves, which is the supply side, and the demand side, those that promote the demand for potential slave labor. assessing these forces will help us understand how we might better defined slavery and attack the problem. the supply side, there is no mystery. these forces have remained somewhere across the street. it fluctuates in terms of scale, but they are very similar. poverty is an important factor. roughly 40% of the planet lives on incomes less than $2.50 per day. wrap your mind around that for a minute. this is a latte at starbucks.

this is the daily income for tens of people in the world. -- 4/10 of people in the world. they are perpetually in competition. other forces, economic disenfranchisement, lack of access to formal credit markets. you and i can go to a bank when we need a credit. many people cannot do that. they go to informal markets. that is the essence of modern day bonded labor. social instability, a military conflict, climate change, these are all forces. you get the picture. they render people to being potentially exploited. of course, throughout much of the world, systemic bias against female genders minority groups, very important supply side forces. on the demand side, the specific causes of demand will vary

depending on what kind of industry we are talking about. for example, with commercial sex, there is demand related to mail demand, to purchase commercial sex. that would not exist in the rice, agriculture industry. there are always two forces of demand better economic in almost any industry that is exploiting people in servitude. that is the exploiters demand to maximize profits and our demand, consumer demand to find and buy things at the lowest possible rate a price, what economists will refer to as price elasticity. let me unpack those. for a business, labour is the highest cost component to their operating expenses. as a result, producers have tried to minimize labor costs. slavery is the extreme. let's eliminate are virtually eliminate labor costs.

slavery affords a nil cost of labor. your total operating costs of whatever your business is are significantly reduced. drastically lowering your operating expenses will ask you to do one other thing. you can become more competitive by lowering the price of what ever it is that you're selling. the economic logic and the contemporary manifestation of slavery, the globalization of competition. what does that mean? if you consider the price of the things we buy? if east trip a major cost component of a model, they can

boost their profits and lower the price of what they are selling to boost consumption our competitiveness. and this is the elasticity of the demand it. that fluctuation can be very high or very low. consumers will prefer the lower price over the other things are the same. producers to compete with each other by eliminating price. a way of the limiting price while remaining competitive it he, it is to exploit labor. but it took a globalized economy, the need to be price competitive as greater than ever.

since a labor can be used, the entire world is and competition in a way never than before. and other ways of a six voided unscrupulous producers compete for profits while maximizing competitiveness, to take all of this jargon and give you an excessive it example, take your apples and iphones. they have 700,000 jobs of in china. the daily wage average, the people making these funds and china, 700 of and people make $2 or $3 an hour. people ask why does apple not

move the jobs here? you cannot find anybody here. and a buddy who's and, would >> up at two or $3. they can make them over there, fit them over here. they are not involved in slavery. i am giving you the sense of so think of lumber are browned the world and being a book whose dome maxima and profitability while minimizing the price of a u.s. selling. apple has a huge margin. we have the understanding of slavery. how do we attack it based on this economic profile? understanding the shift, it. as to certain kinds of tactics

and policies that might prove more effective. making it less profitable, awarding to be evolves in the process of child labor etc.. understanding claim supply chains. they are coming from over there. the baby tainted that certain points. leveraged demand as consumers as a wearing demand involved in global supply chains so we can make choices to products the untainted by various -- it would want to use the market forces. i mention supply chains. this is it getting more and more

attention of the to of the antislavery community. all of the things we buy and consume every day. i have traced and documented money things we buy here today. here is a list of some of those. it is an important to note they are not one time events. they fitted a cycle of all vulnerability. you imperil the local communities by suppressing an come. you rendered. a more formal ball. when you are scores and children or slave labor on the far said of the world. i will give an example of schrempp.

i spent one month in bangladesh one year ago document in the frozen shrimp supply chain. it is a regular tivoli small number of shrimp. not quite 10% of the market. there are a couple of key steps. the first as ketchum baby shrimp. this is don in murky waters right where the ocean as some people have boats and go into the rivers. best of them weighed into the water and a have the assurance the text the shrimp. and there's nothing else but can do. the next step is schrempp farming. that takes a few months.

medina are spending urges it is far from 70,000 shrimp farms -- land overs have displaced lots of owners. farmers take out loans to police the land it. there is that -- if they can be deskilled, and frozen for shipment. this is the hardest for me to document. there is the processing plants. i was taken away at small got -- smog gunpoint. i was violently taken away. that one is ok. the wages were low. there was no severe labor going

on. i could not quantify so much of it was tainted. in net interest in the supply chain, i was able to quantify the ratio of shrimp around the world. that was one out of the 57 schrempp. i do not know the forced labor component. he will go lower will ask china to do the same kind of study. i cannot emphasize. what does that mean? every american eats what have and three pieces of shrimp a year attainted. that is what it meant to address global supply chains.

this is the work done around to the world now to be a part of this entry is the supply chains. it is an important if we will tackle slavery. one final exercise i always go over on my time. i give you one specific example of the shrimp supply chain. the entire logic and reasoning of white that schrempp and a straight -- it is one industry years old because of climate change. for the through the tributaries each year and the land of ours receive it is more profitable than rise. it takes a lot of people.

we talked about the past and present. i want to look at a case study of the august delivery that is persistent today, that is bonded labor. how did it to auric in centuries past question of a provide an overview. i hope some of you have a chance to read a vat. it is a history of slavery in cast and cast relations based on a labor agreement. in a fetal times you have mail and owning class of individuals. they had to bartered their labor as a means of survival. these are arrangements for the lifetimes of the peasants.

it was once prevalent all a round the world. there were as cruel and exports and. it typically involves a thing short of what exportation. this system exploitative around the world. one of a region where it remains concentrated. you can find it everywhere, but it is concentrated in south asia. why the persistence and south asia question might i touched on this earlier. they reinforced a bonded at area in south asia and india was no longer allowed from african countries.

once who was started to object to that, bondage of movements were and place of sales of human beings. bonded labor became enforceable under the workmen's breach of conduct. you can msn colonial officers allowing you a debt contract. i will take you over to jamaica and put you to work. the work was servitude it. the penalty is this and this and this. there were broader economic policies that expanded that, it was really nothing short of a way of disenfranchising and

possessing hundreds of thousands if not millions of peasants and trapping them into bondage. the british colonial empire had slaves kept in a child like conditions. post the independence, it persists because of poverty, these other forces will have talked about on this a plus side. the remnants of a caste system. the global economy feeds and promotes under regulated the market's. how has the chamber changed in modern times? some might ask the question, is it slavery? i say, yes. here is an example of documents.

i will night to all of the case studies. this gentleman at a brick helm millions of south asians and involved in making breakfast for construction. he is caught in a live epicycle started in a small blond. he can ever get out of it. it is often used in carpet weaving as well. anyone under 18 should not be using it and enter south asia. they were locked in a brick shaft where they work 15 hours a day. you can see how big the carpets are. you can see they are exported to the united states. this is often the production

environment. a local product, many people and this carries for hurricane iris lot and into a 2009 wiped out bangladesh. the land of ours came in and said, we will rebuild your home but you have to start selling this work. they get a roof. you can imagine with the impact of that would be. agriculture is another big one. often sizzle contracts. people will go back to between that and bricks. some said, this of voluntary agreements, but as 0 a process of agreement so i did not know if it counts as slavery.

stockbroking is another big one that has been going on for generations. this feeds into the construction industry. a 1983 case, somebody brought a claim under the bonded labor that was passed of the tournament in 86, i went to the same month predicted the elector and many of the conditions still exist. the contemporary manifestation of a labor, it has become less a system of lifetime servitude the -- you can find that one. it is less a system about today than it was a in of the past. it is now is a real concept.

it is used globally to secure servitude of ventura numerous industries. you cannot pay $5,000, it was sent for seven months and sent it back. and of their debt bondage agreement. the phenomenon has become more transitory. it is difficult to identify whether something is a pure debt bondage agreement or if it is a good geminate contract labor. exploiters utilize the tactics. they know of a lot. what will make it more difficult to exploit the labor

difficult to saying, i am doing this by chores. many manifestations might be called voluntary. i do not agree with this. some will call it so they are not slavery. this is what the heart of slavery as. but it forces us to discover what a regional alternative as to be construed. one i gave you my high number, that included a, yes, answer to this. if there is no sustained security or and from source and it is for that reason somebody enters into agreements. it could be somebody that enters into a bonded labor agreement.

if the alternative was worse, then i think that does qualify as coercion and the rest. the as not a voluntary agreement. it is but the poverty, and the worst alternative. some will argue against that depending on how you answer against this question, it will function significantly. this is at the heart of what is or what is not monetary slavery. more on the contemporary manifestation. i believe the same characteristics are what we see when this sample various forms of a recall of slavery on the world today. it is more transitory and a very gifted. all kinds of and modes of

involving exactly slave like exploitation. it is very difficult to identify these things very easily. it does not work that way anymore. exploiters used tactics that avoid identification. the phenomenon tends to be one step ahead of our laws and tactics. the exploiters and traffickers have already moved on to the next phase of how to get away with it. even it is an explosive are broad strokes, i believe it will fail to address the issue. addendum the contemporary aspect, what as leverage, what is not. the definition must not stretch the boundaries of the concept

but must also be nuanced to capture the manifestations of what we need to cause liver today. it must move beyond those who of all the time carelessly as these result of foundations and even the general public. a heavy premium should be placed on a research to quantify the and a guide to policy. i said i would look to the future. what what slavery look like in the years to come. what might it look like? i think it will continue to revolve and to evade a simple definition and analysis. we are not having to read right to our definitions and laws.

>> bleachers rigid i have even talked to them above this -- a facade that does not appear to be slavery even though exports and slave like conditions. the line between severe labor exploitation and slavery will continue to blur. there is a spectrum of people who sail labor exploitation. the at some point you cross a line into forced slavery. the line will get more blurry and then to of the future. the labor markets will continue to be sourced to buy the global economy. there is no way around it does. awareness will failed to tackle the issue if it does not supplemented by an analysis defense efforts to trace what is going on from a supply chain to

a beat. each sector, all of you belong to a sector of the party interested and center slavery, i will take the liberty of telling you what the efforts should be. i think we have to leave the field with policy recommendations related to issues like supply chance. guidance from scholars and find a way to comply globally and effectively. i cannot stress this enough. if we are doing a poor job of understanding and tackling

slavery, we are doing a prophetic of a free empowering exportation everywhere at the to the world. similar efforts, and the organization. a everett is the distance of tournaments and to social movements the uplight movements on and they will when they beat so does fired a as untainted. we have to continue providing resource fort forces between government citizens and academia. a final word, echoes of past and said the food well go into the future were the sum, all, or none of these can be called slavery, it is an issue that must be tackled with

intellectual sensationalism. much has changed, but it is and there are to of where much as so the same. the alliance be to enforce labor and bondage is vital to understand its efforts have of is the issues. no matter what, and susceptible mugs that should no longer be a part of the human condition. and there is space for new leadership to spearhead the efforts. i hope one of the or many of the wall fell of the space. it is wide open for new leaders. take the mantles. it is my hope somebody will be inspired this weekend to say

you're sorry will be the one to organize all of us and lead us into an area of her predicating slavery. thank you. [applause] >> please make sure e wait for the microphone. the >> anybody standing, there are since down here. i wanted to say i had a 7/it could have been a huge and was a church without slides. this is what we experienced. let's go to the audience.

>> i would like to make a distinction between old of slavery and the new. market globalization transforms and it makes the old slavery disappear. do you have an instance of cases of in which old slavery disappeared because they decided it was less an expensive? >> a very interesting question. my first response would be to say i am not sure all forms of

slavery disappeared as much as it evolved. obviously there were laws the past. from a paper loss stand it. , things disappeared. it really does show how things did not disappear as much as bet that to a different set of laws and climate and the volva around to e fact the same motive. whether there was a point of the to of the past where producers faced a scenario where one set of non slave labor became more economically efficient, and there are some few instances. i think historians would have the more to hand them and we do. there are cases where we do long

penalties that are effectively enforce -- it is a longer is economically beneficial. we have to leave they did it or have to do something similar aura labor costs. >> its slave owners hold on to the system as long as they could, only had to adopt under the pressure of laws, -- >> i think you are excessively right. this is radical social change that occurs third top down pressure. sometimes it comes to change policy in august of borides movement. sometimes it has to come from

top gun changed. when at the top down change is perceived to be efficiently and forth, than the explorer tours have to adopt. there are laws and the penalties. but they are not perceived to be efficiently enacted and enforced. >> i want to get your reaction to the idea of in general terms the maybe the diagnosis is only as good as the remedy it prescribes. hear you sayke to what your studdie of the supply

chain suggests about the appropriateness of mary for a of petitioners in there. maybe and more conceptual to arms -- it is all remedies? whether it might not make more sense determine a line between slavery and exploitation where at makes sense to separate the slave from the exporter or of the then there are slaves between into makes more sense between higher wage for the person and that's the are during out to their children going to school. it's a might not make more sense to call it something of of of slavery.

slavery implies a loss of freedom. >> very interesting points. the first one is, as a quiet crucial in my box i give tactics that would be affective purpose of my arguments. until we know if your recommendations are wrecking we do not know the value of your analysis. let's say we take my tent and we do them full frontal and nothing changes. maybe my analysis was not so good. maybe on a global economic standpoint is not the same way.

that is part of the work we need to do. we deploy tactics and mature their accuracy. i think the feedback " policy approaches that might be more effective. it's my be a balance between the law enforcement and criminal law approach and the human rights approach as well. this is just different tactics and priorities. we have to test and find out are felt good about what i have none. some of these tactics will not work so well. one thing ibm hoping to do to work on as some of the ideas. different parts of slavery have to be tackled differently.

it might be a case of the most important imperative is to separate the exploit her from the victim. another scenario is it is trying to provide a bridge an alternative or to empower the person where they are with education, food, health care, etc.. what kind of such as to the we are talking about and where we are evident to of the world. whenever we are faced with a scenario where somebody has to be vacated or extracted a immediately because of the peril they are and, maybe we can find a way of defining them as slavery. there will always be some areas where he did not have to do that, but the a media extractions and while necessary can cause more harm than good.

i would not want to disqualify people as a result. clause >> both historic fleet they are not used for labor exploitation, the worst symbols of conceptions and some sen. they wear used for sacrifices and so on and so forth. it seems to me and generalized model applauses happens at their heart will have a harder time dealing with things like forced

marriage, slavery, war, and of the things. i do not mean it as a criticism as much as you can as a every fanged you want to say. question i think your point is well taken. i cannot agree more understanding the eve volition and the underpinning logic of most forms of logic in terms of how we determine our laws, these are issues of human dignity and rights. that is an important threat in all the work of a do. i kind of want scholarly withdrew while a reading merits of this. no pressure.

i came across nigeria, some the i cannot have imagined it seeing even if i had imagined it, i could not guess i would have seen it. young woman from a young college. that had been tricked and recruited to be brought in to be part of this apartment. they were kept in there and impregnated, they had babies, and the baby's head two outcomes. and there is no way to tackle this from an economic standpoint. it is useless. it is fundamentally horrific.

how do you deal with that? one economic component is were men are facing poverty, grinding poverty that are desperate for any offer. they will support offered to give them there is some economic component. at the end of the day, but this is -- do we called this slavery? there are reserve thinking about it. it is out bridges and exploitation. we have to attend to human dignity that the offenses occurred. that it was my guide the most effective policy. >> i have sent seven has already. >> this is an interesting thread of wanted to jump and on.

there are a number of strands to my question. one is, how would a gender analysis of your particular theme might to bring us away to separate or highlight the peculiar forms as to have mentioned where women are exploited. looking outside of the united states may not make as complete as possible. your description would include prostitutes and enter the inner city where they would act as your definition of slave owners. how would you respond to models like that? >> some people will argue that have sex workers or prostitutes

are victims of sex trafficking are forced labor. it gets to the issue i really put my finger on an entrance of what constitutes coercion and the labor? what is the alternative? you deal with since like conversion, like a psychologically taking care of somebody. the priest took control over young or men and putting a curse on them and the neighbors signed off and traffic to repave the dups. i spoke with the priests. the high priest of nigeria, i went to his shrine.

the deformed woman he had cursed from breaking the oath. i have been shoved and have guns pointed at me but it was the thing as being a done to the same room as the sky. there is no way to escape the effect the sender is pivotal to these issues. almost everywhere you go belonging to the theme of gender will put to at a disadvantage is to education, opportunities, etc.. later on top of that, you are vulnerable to being to affect our exports should. i do not have a lot of and to my first book, it is appropriately affects women.

when you have a minority female you have a double when me. absolute helplessness at their face. you might say, tell them, do not take the offer. when you got to the boonies of west africa or latin america and tried to do this, the response you will get is -- it cannot be any worse than this. being sexually abused, living in poverty, but being investable -- of visible and the stick to it. there will take whatever offer of a can.

>> thank you 40th thought fall presentation. i was wondering and your recommendations to the fighting against modern slavery in you could include -- and you have mentioned the impact of climate change and bring to this. you have also mentioned the, what is left out is the transportation as reduced to 100 years. on the one hand, they enable the exploits of asia where it is easier to export people. raising attacks addition to of the united states to be a way

of reducing the exposure and also to fight slavery. " i have not thought of that. i am excited about the fact there is an interesting ideas of the into the room. i hope to hear more of them. you are absolutely right, fossil fuels contribute to the ps of moving people. many of them have moved by foot and other things. i am not sure what the political implications will be of somebody who made the proposal. i think it is a challenge for some credit to get a tax and implemented.

the idea and the concept of putting a tax or a price premium on a commodity as a way to fund human rights and the general, that is an interesting idea out. how many would be a tourist in adding 5% to reasons to buy it if we're ever going to effective human rights of activity. i would do it to? it is and bold and interesting idea. climate change is the heart at population displacement and disasters. it leads people to a sports fishing, not as trafficking and sliver but all kinds of things. that is an important issue to tackle. i talk about the sudden trauma new balk. i look to see more.

>> some would call out the tax slavery as some have said i have a lot of hands so try to keep this succinctly. >> i think he brought great insight. the contemporary problem of slavery. i had a couple of concerns and nuances there a think would be helpful. it does not express the depths and complexity, but i think one of the things asking from your analysis was the slave idea of

their own for dumps. if you look of the history of india and to of the past, much of the antislavery identification has been a themselves laborer's saying they want something themselves. if you think as a state of examplar, first of all, a question of the role of government. we have seen some important legislation brought by the union government of india up. and much of the rest of the country, it seems to me to be an expression of feller of government. whenever we and talking about

the fundamentals of the issues, it is the vast majority of people and is live are from low- cost minority groups. people are not wanting to alecto because of the aristocratic privileges a gives them. whenever we give them comfort and support to liberate themselves, we see a complex process, one which is not particularly if by human rights or other sorts of lenses but must be used with specific clauses. i think that is something that is missing from. nobody from your academic and

say everything. >> thank you for those points. i do spend quite a lot of time on my book. it is not just there. there are disenfranchised are cast groups. they might not be rigid certain ethnic groups of them to africa. and there is always people across africa. there is always an ethnicity of people who have been at the forefront and to have been exported sometimes and slavery and in other times bad conditions. it does require simple -- something different that is a social transformation. you cannot argue a way that

issue. you cannot criminal law at your re from the issue. it will take time. new efforts, more efforts, i did a couple of ideas about what will help from a cast the issue that may need to be undertaken. the people of the bottom of the pyramid are the look cast or female issues. soph empowerment, i agree. the first thing i do is go in here, what people are saying. this is how i have case studies now. what are their desires, what do they want? it is useless to work with a population without hearing from them directly? if it is freedom, what does that mean to them?

it could mean something different to me. it would be much more simple. caring forces and working them into our approach a in social policy and a lot and the efforts, it is very appropriate. i could not agree more. they do need some assistance. there has to be pressure and work coming from above. it helps them realize and sustain it. that has to come from governments and government structures. i think the first one, the leadership of academia. what i am focusing on as, we are at this moment, a what is this

thing? how do we identify it? how do we quantify it? and those answers, first and foremost out of research. academic researchers have to work because they are the ones on the ground with the local relations and the understanding to allow it to be done ethically. i think leadership has to get us over the hurdle of how do we define it and quantify it and to respect. everywhere i go, they know so much more about what is happening and then to of this part of the world. >> this gentleman right here.

we are going to take -- >> i look up the reports of human traffic in. it is going to every country and then toured the world. they talked abut the transportation of men and women. specifically, the talk about is sex tourism. did you have a break down of the percentage of a four-man -- sex slavery versus labor or production or whatever? is sex slavery --? two different questions. i do have a breakdown. it is and in the charts. i forget where my numbers are.

it is kind of like 55-45, labor being the higher one the commercial sex. it is in my books as well. based on my simple and, region to region fluctuate quite a bit. is slavery a potent -- no, i do not think so. to her. about gender, this is a fight to the has been fought for centuries. the movement has come a long way. it has a long way to go.

when you come to the rural part of the world, the imbalances on part of the equation. they feed into our equations. they can be exploited. that will take time. i am not full of hopelessness. certain parts of the world will take a little longer. i think we will succeed. >> one of him was the interesting things to me is we have been using the same measure to measure of the scope of the problem for the last 15 years. it is supposed to beat -- it has been a lot of the as to measure

the fastest glowing -- growing ali " industry in and the world. you say what we really need to do is define what slavery as. how do we quantifiers but slavery as? does that not undermine your conclusions on what the scope of slavery is? >> i do offer my definition. a slightly different definition in my second book. that definition has changed because of my thinking and devotion of research has altered my definition to some extent. it is based, he volition.

that is direct did the sampling. i have hired of their people to count to around the world. i am the only person who has done data collected sampling. i am not sure 27 is required as credible. i do not think that is an academically strong member. it has not changed. we are not sure what it consists of. i helped devise on that. i helped provide a specific outline of how i did my did assembling and how i copulated it. it is a model. it has to have assumptions.

you cannot count every body. transparent about methodology and how numbers are changing and growing are going the other way. i think there are a lot of numbers that are out there. i think we have to be progress about scrutinizing about where did it come from, what was the methodology? how are the numbers being updated? what goes into the number? what kind of slaves? they are not all just slaves? what goes into the number? i tried to do that with mine and meager intellect and resources. governments have to take this

on and too broad sampling. they have to scare old it up. not saying how i calculated it, what it consists of, describing the methodology, that will mahal bonds. that is why some people question the research of them to our field. >> we were looking at how there was the changing standards because of the market economy of moving up higher. at what point do you think that might have brought more slavery and to the coming years? >> say that one more time. are you asking dynasty?

corks what point do you think there was a shift where commager's were starting to retire positions -- >> >> that is an interesting question. it speaks to the development of humans. all people have focused on economic development and human development. people moving up the economic ladder. when they get to a point where they have a sufficient level of income, where they can save money, which they can use when there is a crisis, they can afford medicines, they are not as horrible to being exploited or trafficked. that is a fundamental imperative for many reasons, to

help lift 40% of the planet that is in poverty higher on the economic ladder -- ladder. you see some of that, but we still have to 0.5 billion people in poverty. not all of them -- 2.5 billion people in poverty. >> the back row, right here. tomorrow questions, and then we will have to break. >> i think you said that in global supply chains, slavery shows up in supply chains were demand for products, and more elastic demand for products are, the more likely that there is a slave labour component. >> i am not sure of that correlation. >> my question is, is there any

evidence or research that slave labor closedown in -- goes down in product chains that are inelastic? >> i have never sliced my data that way. i am trying to think of hand. -- offhand. hand-woven carpets are not too elastic. if you add 20% or 30% to the cost, i think demand tends to draw. or people get the machine-made stuffed. there's plenty of labor exploitation in that sector. seafood is more elastic. the price point is already kind of low. a significant percentage of fluctuation does not hurt too much. you also have a child labor and forced labor in that supply chain. your question bears some slicing

of the day that and looking at -- maybe there are differences in the extent to which you find explication depending on the consumer and elasticity of a product. i have not sliced my own data that way. i do not know if i have enough data to slice it that way. >> hang on to your questions. >> hello, thank you for your presentation. my question is a bit of a technical one -- we are talking about measuring slavery. you mentioned that it is a revolving door. people come in, people go out. and no. i would be interested in seeing is not the number of slaves existing at a given time, but generations that go through slavery. it is more of a temporal effect than in a slice of time. second, there is slavery caused by market forces, which is what

we have talked about, but there is also slavery that comes in times of a rupture. in world war ii, japanese -- the japanese enslaved many women. this aggregating -- disaggregating it would be interesting. do you know of any projects that are doing this? >> i am sure that there are some. works that deal with the issue of the relationship between military strife and slavery or servitude. we all know there is kind of a correlation. i am sure that there are books that focus specifically on that. i cannot bring any to the front of my mind just now. your question about the revolving door versus a static number -- a model incorporates an assumption on the duration of servitude. the number i captured as the fact that people are caught in servitude for different