>> thank you for the question. this has been a concern with regard to the 1986 law. i am very pleased at the bipartisan effort so far. what has been proposed include stronger interior enforcement. >> i don't want to interrupt you, but we do everything we can despite our best efforts. there will be people that break yet. for those individuals, should we be expected, 10 years from now, to write a new path of citizenship for those individuals however many they might be? >> i don't think that as a question that can be answered right now. i believe if congress does an

excellent job now -- >> are you saying there will not be people that circumvent the law? you don't disagree with that there would be folks that circumvent it. >> should we be prepared to write a new path of citizenship? >> i believe that as a question that won't have to be answered by congress in the future if you do the job right this time. >> you believe if we do the job right, there will not be individuals that circumvent the law? >> it is easy to talk about comprehensive reform. the ranking member said there is so much that we agree on, but we can't just take a concept like comprehensive reform because the devil is in the details. when you talk about folks that are not here legally, most of

them are hard working and good people. and there are a few of them here, 85% of one gang was here illegally. as to just that group, if we have someone here that is here illegally and someone who is a member of a violent criminal gang, should we be prepared to deport them before they commit a criminal act? >> i think there is agreement across the board that if someone has committed a violent crime -- >> before they have committed a crime, they are here illegally and a member of a violent criminal gang. should we be able to deport

them before they commit that act? or should they be able to have a path to citizenship? >> if you determine them guilty? >> they are not here legally. we can prove that they are a member of a violent criminal gang. should we be able to remove them from the country before they commit a violent criminal act? >> i would say that i believe ensuring that america is free of the folks that have committed violent crimes should be a priority. with regard to the hypothetical of people who may or may not commit a crime, i concede that i am not in law enforcement or a technical expert in that regard. i believe the folks that have committed a violent crime should be deported.

>> this situation happened in boston and a young girl was raped and brutally beaten. violent criminal gangs and temporary protected status protected them. i hear that the senate refused to pass it. i see that my time is expired. these are the questions that we need answers for and unfortunately that is part of what we have to ferret out over the next several weeks and months. >> i would like to ask unanimous consent to place and the record 22 statements from various individuals including religious organizations, labor organizations, as well as an octet from the washington times today from the dean of the law school at liberty university.

>> seeing as liberty is a fine institution in the sixth congressional district of virginia, we will admit all of those without objection for the record. >> can i have unanimous consent to introduce an article that appeared in the wall street journal on the declining birth rates? >> without objection. i would also ask unanimous consent that a joint statement by the comprehensive immigration reform coalition and the national hispanic christian leadership conference of which dean is a member, hall of these documents will be put in the record and the gentleman is recognized for five minutes. >> it has been interesting to

listen to the questions so far. a person can be found deportable not just if you are convicted of an event, but if you have admitted to committing all the elements of a criminal offense even though you have not been convicted. i think we have a unique opportunity to come together and come up with a situation where another congress 20 years from now will not be dealing with the same problem. a witness before the subcommittee a number of years ago, i always quote him because i don't want to steal his line. one said no trespassing and the other said help wanted.

our situation, we did the reagan amnesty but we made no provision to meet the economic or familial needs of the country. like 80% or 90% of them, they are here without their papers. you can verify they are not properly here and american agriculture would collapse. what we need to do is provide a system that will actually meet our needs both in the economy whether it is high tech or agriculture and also respect the need for american families to be united. it is now my belief that my son and daughter are part of my nuclear family. i think that is true for americans that have sons and

daughters abroad. i think it would be such a tragedy if we became sidetracked on whether or not the 11 million here that respond to the help wanted sign can never become right with the law and never have the aspiration to become an american. we're not talking about giving his citizenship to everybody. what we're saying is, over time, you might gain legal permanent residency in the united states. and if you learn everything there is to know about the american government, learn english so well that you can pass the test and swear to defend the constitution and be willing to fight for your country, only in that case could you become an american citizen. i think that looking back to today's newspaper article, he

said that we should include appropriate penalties, background checks, evidence of moral character to get the full participation in american society including learning english. the hard-working and undocumented neighbors, it must end with citizenship and not a permanent second-class status. i hope that people will read it because it is very compelling. thanks to all the people for being here, you have been excellent witnesses. you have talked about immigration, your grandparents are just like mine. but one of the arguments that has not been made here but has been made in the country is that somehow, today's immigrants are different than the old

immigrants or the good of immigrants from before. the german immigrants we said would not really learn english, the irish did not need to apply, italians were somehow not the same and that all seems preposterous. have you seen any evidence that today's immigrants are any less meritorious than the immigrants from the american past? less willing to learn english or become patriotic americans? >> this generation of immigrants, i am convinced, is just as hard working and patriotic, just as fate oriented as emigrants from generations before the helped build the great country that we live in today. i know there has been that type

of characterization. in san antonio, i see folks that graduated valedictorian, national merit scholar, big dreams, wants to be productive for the country. that is the caliber of emigrant. whether it is someone like her or someone working hard in the agriculture industry, these are hard-working folks that are positively contributing to the progress of our nation. >> i don't want to abuse your patience. >> de committee is going to take a very brief recess. those of you that need to accommodate yourself, you have five minutes to do so. we will stand in recess until 12:20.

>> the meeting will reconvene. we will continue our questioning by members of the committee and the chair now turns to the gentleman from iowa for five minutes.

>> i thank the witnesses for the testimony. i am looking forward to your answers. yours was, i think, the most engaging. and when you talked about inspiration that comes from the inventions that we have and how it can transform not just american society but global society, i noticed a dialogue that has crept in almost all of american society that we are not separating the term immigrants. if i were a casual observer, i would not know if we were talking about legal or illegal. can you define that for me? >> i am talking about people that came lawfully. people that started companies

and we have documented statistics. we are struggling entrepreneur shift because we won't give them visas. we keep talking about 11 million or 10 million workers. they are trapped in limbo, doctors and lawyers. >> you are talking about legal immigrants and their contribution as skilled la workers? >> exactly. >> i remember the hearings that we have had in this room, that number is pretty good, between 7% and 11%. you say that we should take a number of legal immigrants and focused on the skilled worker side of this.

i think that is the right direction to go. i turn to mayor castro and you say it is not a zero sum game that we can have skilled workers and unskilled workers and family reunification. a zero sum game always get my attention because we have one plane -- and because we have over 6 billion people on the planet. he will leave we should have a limit? and what is that number? >> i will say that i could set a number for you right here, rep king. i know there are only a certain number of folks that will be permitted to enter the united states, but i don't believe it is a zero sum game.

i think the answer is to increase the number of high skilled immigrants and also to put the folks already here -- >> >> you would not put a limit on any of those groups? unifil the categories by demand and it is potentially the entire population of the planet. the you believe immigration policy in this country should be established to enhance the economic, social, and cultural wellbeing of the united states? >> we agree that it should enhance the economic and social well-being of the united states. it has been shown that immigrants do benefit the economic progress of the united states. >> i recall the gentle lady

saying that the agriculture would collapse if all of a sudden we didn't have the immigrant labor to do that. the you agree with that? >> this is my comment, not the commission's. if you suddenly removed the entire work force of fruit and vegetable agriculture, it would collapse. but that is not the question. the question is, should you continue to depend on inflows of people to be the work force of that industry? >> would you agree there are many businesses that have been predicated upon the presumption that there would be unskilled and often illegal labour to fill those rights? and the economic structure would be dramatically different?

>> i have talked to a lot of the farmers. they make decisions based on the consumption. >> i watched that in my district. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas for five minutes. >> let me thank all of you for your time here today. a very important process we are going through. if i have ever felt the greatness of america, it is today. it is now. i want to put in the record quickly that this year, 2012, border patrol agents have apprehended -- and the budget has doubled from $6.3 billion to $11.7 billion.

i think that is an important note to make for this record. i absolutely believe that in spite of your interests, we can suffer a piecemeal process. it must be a comprehensive process. let me thank you for your intellect and genius. those individuals who are out technological giants, many of them were trained in america's institutions of higher learning, correct? >> correct. >> mark zuckerberg and bill gates went through harvard. others like google was through the institutions of higher learning in this nation. the children of those that have

different skills ultimately go to stanford, harvard, princeton, and ultimately be the same kind of genius immigrants have been, or those youngsters that you speak of? if you happen to be the child of an undocumented person, you can also% to genius by going to those schools. >> i agree and my children will outdo me. >> they have the excellent professors such as yourself. and it is also a commitment of america to ensure that those individuals that may not necessarily the the first generation immigrants but those that look at this hearing and say, what is going to happen to me? should that be the promise of america? >> i agree.

>> and many educated technologically, should everybody have that? >> yes. >> it is an important message that nobody can be left out. >> and the issue of timing right now is critical. we need the talent and innovation to cure the economy. >> let me make you a commitment. we put these skilled immigrants right there and we will roll forward together. if i might ask you a question about two issues. working with emigrant issues, let me say how in during the dream for youngsters are. i spent time in an office so a mother -- we might have a deferred circumstance.

a person with a serious neurological issue. they were expelled from one of our public hospitals while her husband paid taxes of which the hospital facility was built on end her child was an undocumented individual. the pains of those kind of stories, can we put a face on those kind of stories? and including african-americans and others that have come together and worked together, showing productivity? >> i am very proud of san antonio over the years. many immigrants have come and build up one of the nation's leading cities today. i hear the stories, i have met with the dreamers, oftentimes you are doing great in high school.

they find out they are not here, documented. america is the only country they have never called home. the are as patriotic as everyone else. they worry about their parents and themselves. despite the fact that they have great talent and a lot to offer the country. it rips families apart at this seems to be in this kind of limbo. we are not fully able to take advantage of the brain power of those young people. i believe is the currency of success and i agree with you that the brain power comes from many different quarters. my grandmother came through eagle pass texas as a 6-year- old orphan. two generations later, the

grants of as the mayor of the city and the other is the congressman of san antonio. these are stories that we have to pay heed to when we think about the need to do this comprehensively. >> the gentleman from texas is recognized for five minutes. >> down here on the far right, imagine that. you are right, we have to put faces on things. and with children gathered around him, i think about the financial burden we are putting on our children. the first generation in american history that is actually making things worse for future generations. instead of sacrificing ourselves, we are spending money like crazy and part of it

is health care. we had a obama pass -- obama care pass a couple years ago and there are massive cuts affecting their ability to get health care. one of the problems, it seems, with the overspending burden on health care is that even though people in business, the chamber wants to look the other way sometimes on people coming in illegally. that the rest of americans are paying for the health care of those that command if they come in illegally. somebody is paying that. as we hear farmers, apparently it is essential that they have

emigrant workers, men and harvest crops. would any of you have any problem saying, you want to bring in temporary workers to harvest your crops, you need a number of health insurance policy that covers the people you are bringing in to work temporarily? i am looking for grounds for compromise where we can work something out. accommodate those that do not impact the system. would anyone be offended by the requirement of employers having an umbrella health insurance policy? anybody? >> i would say that i have not given that thought, but i do believe that we need to address

the folks that are already here. and with regard to future work force -- >> i understand that, but that is not the direction of my question. and since my time is limited, i need to move on. you agree that our policy should be what is in the best interest of the united states. we have heard that there may be 1.5 million that want to come to the united states and that would obviously overwhelmed our system and nobody would want to come here because we would be bankrupt. we often talk about those that cross our borders illegally. 40% of the people that are unlawfully in the country right now came and lawfully and have overstayed their visas and their means of coming in illegally. does anybody on the panel believe we should advertise to the world that if you come than

temporarily on a visa, you don't have to leave? it may sound like a silly question, but it is a concern of mine that we might be advertising. steve king had gone over to talk with folks and they do not like the term illegal immigration in england. they told that -- told us is a regular migration. whether it is a regular migration or illegal immigration, they said they had a law that provides if you come into england, you have to swear that you will not accept any government benefits for five years. as they said, since it is all about the best interests of our country, we need to make sure people coming in and contribute before they take out. would anyone have a problem if

we had such a prohibition? we welcome you in, what ever comprehensive agreement gets worked out, to have an agreement, you do not get benefits until you are here five years contributing to the system. anyone have a problem with that? >> we have to provide medical benefits regardless of who we bring in. that is a must for every human being. >> whoever we bring in we will give free health care. >> the insurance. >> if someone comes in paying for it they're not getting free health care. >> it should be paid for. >> i would say as you know, legal permanent residents who do not qualify for traditional welfare or health care. i believe a lot of that is absolved by the law in place. >> we do have government agencies that go out and recruit people for government benefits whether they're here

legally or illegally. which is something else we need to look at. we appreciate your time. my time is expired. thank you. >> the gentleman from california. >> let me reiterate that point. there is a five-year ban on benefits for legal permanent residents. they cannot come in and get the health benefits. that is totally a myth that is out there. i would like to have some questions pertain to families considering immigration reform. one of the immigration priorities is comprehensive immigration reform protect the unity and city of family? by ensuring that families are reunited. there is a significant backlog. adult children of u.s. citizens

in the philippines have been waiting for 20 years to be reignited. americans i believe should not have to choose between the country and building a life with their children. mayor castro is the grandson of a democrat and a public servant. how problematic is it that families are being split apart and wire family's good for our economy and nation? >> thank you for the question. this is long been the policy of the united states for good reason. families make each individual stronger. it is the basis of much of the strength of our economy. we hear stories every now and then of folks who have a dying relative in another country. someone they have been waiting to bring over for years.

someone who is here undocumented who is definitely afraid of going across the border to go visit the dying mother or dying father. just cannot do it because they now with the risk is. we're stronger because we have had this family based system. part of what we have to do for folks who are citizens who are here legally as well is to clear that backlog. we need to invest, to clear that backlog and make sure we can strengthen this. >> thank you. i want to ask also about the families of h1b workers. you talked about the need for highly skilled workers. jobs are going unfilled because of a lack of qualified workers in science, technology, engineering, and mouth. -- math. you talked about how the families of skilled workers

live in a second-class citizens. spouses are not allowed to work. this might not able to get -- they might not able to get driver's licenses. these workers are getting frustrated and returning home. how does this impact our ability to bring engineers and tackett -- scientists to the u.s.? does it serve as a deterrent not to have something in place? >> i hate to say this but the woman in saudi arabia have more rights than the spouses or the wives of life -- h1b workers. they are confined to the home. what sort of country is this that brings them in and does not give them equal rights?

they get increasingly frustrated. the have such marital problems because there wives are productive and they're not allowed to work. it must be fixed. >> thank you for that. you had a compelling story about coming here, one of the best and brightest students and then became a leader in the biotech field working for amgen and for genentech. and it took you 15 years to get your permanent status. you had a wife and now you have two beautiful young children. you talk about certain solutions and -- that could continue family based immigration and make sure that immigrant families are able to work together and through their combined forces pickaxes, buy

homes, and sparked job-creating businesses. i was interested in one of your solutions which is that it espouses -- that espouses are exempted from the employment based caps. could you talk more about that? >> thank you. when you become a citizen which in my case after 15 years [indiscernible] if i can be a citizen. during this period, if you get married and i had a colleague like this. it cannot bring your spouse into the country for five years. that is the backlog for immediate families. i want to say that i understand the importance of your family being with you. it is really important. during these long weeks, if you

are on an h1, there are certain states that will restrict the ability of your spouse to do so much that becomes difficult as the family unit to continue this in a meaningful manner. i count myself as very fortunate. one month when the state department decided to allow everyone to file, i was able to get employment authorization. anyone -- does not have that privilege. >> you're going to have to summarize. >> i agree. it is a problem and i want to echo that it needs to be fixed. >> the chair would ask the gentleman from texas if you would yield 30 seconds to me so i might --

>> i appreciate that. it want to clarify a statement made earlier, some disagreement here. we found in writing the stem visa bill when we extended a provision that allowed people who are on waiting lists to come to the united states, we have to provide additional pay because we looked at obamacare and found that it provides benefits to anyone who is lawfully present in the united states. even without permanent resident status this is going to be a major issue we will have to deal with as we look at immigration reform because individuals will qualify for benefits for as many as 10 million people. i yield back to the gentleman from tx. >> thank you for being here.

the issue of immigration to me covers many questions. not just one or two. there are multifaceted questions to be answered. across the board and i want to focus on a couple of those in the next few minutes. we had the issue of skilled warrior -- skilled workers. that is one of the issues we have. specifically because of my location in the houston area we also have the fact that the system to me is broken. notllows for abuse and i'm talking about people who are coming here to better themselves. i am talking about the criminals who come in the united states. the drug cartels and their operation.

and how they now have become so sophisticated they can cross the border into texas. they have engaged in human trafficking. houston has become one of the hubs in the united states for the disbursement of traffic people. we have the issue of 20% of the people in federal penitentiaries. there were unlawfully in the united states. border security is -- covers those particular issues. we have the other issues as well. i would like to concentrate on trying to secure the border. i am one of those who does not believe the border is secure. otherwise would not have all these organized crime problems that have been created in the united states. at the border in texas as you know, there is the ability for person -- different subject to come in and cross the border daily to go to school, to work. the 25 mile border visa system.

and they use some type of card similar to this. where they are allowed to cross into the united states daily. do you think because of your location in san antonio that if we had a better legal entry visa whether it is a card with the biometrics, fingerprints, photographs, the different electronic things we can put what a person comes into the united states, slide in glide, so the speed. we know who that person is and they have permission to go to oregon for six months. if that would help the overall issue of specifically knowing who comes in lawfully or not. what do think about that? >> i certainly think there is room for that. the use of technology and the systems we have been developing have been improving.

i would say that in texas included, the dedication of boots to the ground, of manpower at the border has been accelerated over the last two years under president bush and president obama like never before. we have doubled the number of enforcement agents there since 1974. operations are at a 40-year low. i would agree that it is part of a comprehensive approach that the kinds of things you're talking about should be part of the discussion. perhaps part of the legislation. that does not get to the issue of the folks were here already. >> i understand that is one of the questions that has to be addressed but it is not the only question that has to be addressed. there are many issues, even legal immigration. my office because of where we are, our case workers spend more time on helping people get here the right way than anything else they do.

it has been pointed out that is a big problem where people have to wait for years to just come in the right way. that has to be fixed as well. one comment i would make on the apprehension, the apprehensions may be down. that does not mean that the border is more secure. it means that apprehensions are down. less people are being apprehended. the governor is doing more than ever before in the state to help border security as well. so anybody else want to weigh in on improving the legal basis system so that it is more secure? that is a concern as pointed out. many people come in the right way and they never go home. why would they? there in texas. why would they leave? there in san antonio. >> i agree with you there.

>> anybody else want to weigh in on that? >> we may well need a biometric system. >> we may need something -- we have enough right now, there is no such thing as privacy anymore anyway. we might as well face it. the canadians do and i ask the canadian ministry, how do they manage? he said even if they come here they cannot work. there are -- we may have to bite the bullet over here. >> i yield back my time. >> -- it turns out to the gentleman from -- gentlewoman from -- you tell me.

-- my apologies -- from california. >> thank you. i wanted to ask a couple questions. maybe you can tell me. when we talk about a pathway to citizenship and when we talk about people who are undocumented being here and having to go at the end of the line and what it would have to do, pickaxes, pay fines, whenever. when that conversation comes up it is as though that would take a couple of months. and i think i do support a pathway to citizenship. i do not want to be shy about that. i wanted to know if you had some sense of how long that would take. >> thank you. i would say the question was asked about the compromise. this is earned citizenship.

that one would be fined, learn english, payback taxes and go to the back of the line. for folks who are legally applying that it takes too long right now. it takes over a decade or longer. for anyone who thinks that this would be some sort of automatic application that someone would be in in a couple of months, that is not the case at all. this is a years-long process and it is also earned. that is an important point to be made. >> thank you. another area that i am concerned about and i would like to know how this might be impacting your city. a lot of research, an issue i work on its foster care. because of the deportations that have taken place over the last years, there are 5000-

6000 children who have been abandoned. i wanted to know if that was affecting your city. if we include a resolution for that as we do comprehensive reform. >> you do have examples of families that have been torn apart and certainly i hope in this legislation we can find a way in addressing immigration reform comprehensively to do with those types of situations. i remember that george bush when he was governor of texas used to say that family values do not end at the rio grande. that certainly is true still. keeping the family together has been so much a part of the progress of america. my hope is that can be addressed. >> when we talk about family values we have to consider this. one of the issues i would be

concerned about is those people that have been deported, how do we reunite them with their children? i went to a residential facility for foster youth and there were a group of children arriving that day in miami from california. a group of children in miami who were being sent to live in miami. from california. not only are they completely disconnected from their parents but any and verna they might have known and what is to happen to those kids? when we're thinking about resources of our country, our government could wind up supporting this children all of their lives because we have this -- disconnected them from their family. it is an important issue that we factor in when we do comprehensive immigration reform. i wanted to ask you a question. you made reference to one of the previous members had asked you about the agricultural industry. and coming from california that is a major industry.

you said something about how it is unskilled workers were not allowed in the country or were removed that maybe growers would make different decisions about what they would grow? i was wondering if you could give a couple of examples. i cannot think of crops that would not require farmworkers and how would a state like california that feeds a good percentage of the country then make decisions about -- >> i can give you a memorable example. visiting a farm or ranch that had a very large number of paper, trees that had to be hand-pick. and i was talking with the former and asking him what his situation was on labor. he said all these people are undocumented and i do not pay the much so i can afford to hand-pick. these ever caught sprayed you have to handpick the apricots.

they're very fragile. what would you do if he did not have the labour force or the price went up substantially? he said we are losing money already. if the cuts coming into the port of san francisco from turkey. they're undercutting what we can sell them for. i am going to do this anyway but if it happened the way you described i would cut down these eight countries and are replaced walnuts. there would grow great on this land and with a walnut tree you put a tarp under the tree and bring up the mechanical shaker. you shake the tree. all the wall let's fall in the tarp and you have harvested the tree in 10 minutes. it is a lot less labor. that is typical, i think. >> i would just suggest that you would devastate the economy of california if california switched over to crops that did not require the labor of farmworkers. >> the question is how

intensive is the labor needed for a given crop? >> do you have any other examples of crops that do not require farmworkers? >> there are some crops that are labor-intensive and some that are not. wheat is not labor-intensive. >> thank you. i yield back. >> the gentleman from south carolina. >> thank you. i want to make sure i am understand you correctly and fully. can you support a pass to legal status that does not end in citizenship? >> no. i support a pathway to citizenship. >> there is no form of legal status that you would support short of a full-fledged citizenship? >> i do not believe it is in the nation's best interest. >> the answer is now? >> zevely pathway to full citizenship is with the congress -- i believe a pathway to full

citizenship is what the congress ought to enact. >> a compromise between what? i do not hear anyone advocating for full-fledged citizenship without background checks. without back taxes or full citizenship without fines. it is a compromise between what? >> you would agree with me that this point that you are at right now that you are talking about. the fact it would have to pay a fine and go back to the end of the line and they would have to learn english. that has been worked up as a compromise between senators from different parties. >> my question to you is that represents a compromise between what? i do not know anyone who is advocating against that. so you represent that as being a compromise. the compromise strikes me as a balance between two competing principles. i do not hear anyone advocating for full-fledged citizenship

was no conditions at all. how is that a compromise? >> it is a compromise in my mind. senators from different parties as americans want folks to do from different parties, came together and put together a framework. i am sure they had their divergent views. i am sure there was more divergence in their views. what was put on the table including the planks you just stated represents a compromise position. >> what about those who are currently here who do not desire citizenship? would it be forced upon them or could they opt out? >> i believe throughout our history and has been left up to the individual. no one is talking about forcing folks. >> the polls -- there is a large percentage that want to work legally. they do not desire to be full- fledged citizens. you would not force that upon them. >> when i hear are -- what i hear are an enormous people who

want to be citizens. they are patriotic. they want to be full-fledged citizens. i believe that is in the best interest of the nation. i do not believe -- >> there is not a legal status short of citizenship you could except. there is no compromise short of full-fledged citizenship that you could indorse. >> this is in your hands. >> i am asking you. >> i believe the compromise that has been worked out by the senators that may be worked on by house members, that represents a great compromise and americans can support that. >> what are some of the elements of the background checking would be most interested in? the word background check means different things to different people. it is -- what you mean by background check?

>> i acknowledge, i am not a technical expert. i understand you are going to have a panel that will deal with enforcement. >> you are an attorney. free well trained attorney. >> better than most of the members of the judiciary i expect your grades were. what would you include in that background check? mr. forbes ask you, i thought it was a very good question. if you set the bar at felony convictions that is a pretty high standard. for those who are under investigation by the bureau or someone else and you could meet the level of probable cause, would you be able to exclude them from this path? >> i think what has been discussed goes beyond folks who have been convicted of a felony. there may be some instances but that is case-specific. that needs to be adjudicated.

somewhere between assuming that someone has committed a crime and recognizing there are circumstances where someone does present a danger to the united states and should not be in the country. i do think there's leeway there. i would grant you that. there -- these are the kinds of things i do not disagree with the general point. this is not easy. this is detailed. it is important work. i believe at the end of the day, the compromise, the general principles of the compromise worked out in the senate are the ones that are the best option for the united states. >> my last question to you is this. this is not our country's first foray into an amnesty. it talked about citizenship and all the benefits that confers on folks. one of the benefits it confers is you have the protection of the law. how would you explain to folks who do place a high value on

respectful rule of law. this -- why we're doing again it has not worked in the past. >> you would -- you and i would agree that we're a nation of laws. we draw our strength from the fact that we are a nation of laws. at the same time we're a nation of immigrants. we have progressed as a nation because we're pragmatic. we understand these 11 billion folks -- this has to be addressed. it is in our national security interest, our economic interests. i do think we can find a way to punish these folks for not coming in here legally. and address the pragmatic issue that is in front of us. >> i thank you. the chair recognizes the gentleman from louisiana for 5

minutes. >> thank you. earlier, the question was posed to each of you when you are given the ability to just say yes or no and i thought it was unfair but the question was, should america do what is in america's best interest when you talk about immigration and i guess the question -- the part that was left out, do you consider a cost-benefit analysis on each person as the only factor in what is in america's best interest? if they are going to come and be successful business owners and create jobs, is that the only factor we should look at when determining what is in america's best interest? we can start with you. >> there needs to be a balance. if we just bring people in and there are no jobs will come -- create a complete mess. they lose and we move -- we lose. we bring in a crop of skilled

immigrants that can help this country become competitive. so we can bring the other people in. >> that should not be the only factor. >> this is something -- >> should it be the only factor? >> it should not be. can i say more than know? -- than no? if you ofcus -- focus on the employment base, that is a small category. >> i agree. >> i agree with -- the balance is important. >> we need a balanced approach. >> the reason i pose the question, why do we just get the skilled labor part on first? politically and as being very practical about it if we got practical about it if we got the