discusses his time in afghanistan. later, another chance to see tonight's edition of first ladies. >> rachel was not a fan of anything that took jackson away from the hermitage. she was always the things that he would come back too. >> she ran the plantation and kept everything in order. everybody loved her. >> she might not have been like abigail adams, but she could write a nice letter. she was not as from be as she was reputed to be. >> the only problem was they got famous. wase rose in politics, she called names. they used every piece of

garbage they could find an rachael was good garbage for them. >> she dreaded going to washington. i would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of god to live in the palace. she never dead. -- she never did. >> emily donelson was 21 years old and she became the white house hostess. >> she was perfect. for all of the negatives washington had to say about andrew jackson, they love to emulate. >> she received education and a fine arts of being a lady. proper table manners, a proper etiquette. it enabled her when rachael suddenly died to slide right into the role of white house hostess. >> the women like to herb. -- liked her.

she was polished. jackson hasly that a falling out with. he could not deal with this going against his will in his own home. >> for 12 years, new presidents -- we will learn about to the administration's led by wood president and the various women who served with their first ladies. up first, andrew jackson's presidency. a story of personal politics, a tragedy, and gossip, and washington ambitions. thank you for being with us. produced in cooperation with the white house historical association. here to tell us more about that

time period it and the women who served in the white house are two guests. first, michael henderson. he served as the superintendent of the martin van buren national historic. and pat brady is back at our table tonight. she is a first lady's biographer and historian. her biography of rachael jackson. understand the amount of change that kantor jackson brought to washington. >> -- andrew jackson brought to washington. >> he is the first westerner. we have va. presidents before that. jackson is somebody completely different. he grew up in the frontier. the change is enormous. socially, the change is enormous. --n though he is a planter,

he was not like a new england int -- new englanders island -- either. he brought very different values and very different ambitions. >> even though he was awaited -- would president. >> she was the one of his life. a few months, at before he went to be inaugurated, and he was bereft. he spent all of his time thinking about her and her memory and having her pictures, portraits in the bedroom. it really changed. >> we need to delve into the campaign of 1828 to understand the presidency.

-- how did itr of change? >> it was the first time we did not have the majority of electors. the election was given over to the house of representatives. he'll have these multiple competing factions in the house of representatives. you have crawford from a juror -- georgia, caledon, jackson. he did not win the electoral college. when the politicking was going on in the house of representatives, there was an opportunity to make deals. one of the deals that was probably made was that henry clay would become the vice president and adams will win the election. that was seen as a corrupt bargain. once we came out of that election, there was a whole buildup to the next election.

>> you just described 1824. setting the stage for 1828. how does 1828 play out? >> in 1824, jackson was not quite sure that he was ready to be president. he was not quite sure he was the right man. stolen from him. then he knew he was meant to be president. he came out in 1828, he came out fighting. >> what is interesting about the -- he and hisas surrogates were out on the stump. as 800,000 more americans voted in that election

than had in the previous. how did he do that? >> a lot of it was the growing development of an actual national party. martin van buren had been working on in albany and have been working with people in the south, particularly in virginia. this is a period of great technological change. railroads, and newspapers, new communication methods coming to bear as well as a much larger electorate. we had almost the general -- there are more people voting, more interest in voting, and more opportunity to hear about it. >> more western states voting. >> rachael jackson became an issue in the 1828 campaign. this is the first time that people targeted the wife of the presidential candidate. >> to the extent that it

happened. abigail adams had taken some hard hits from the press as well being referred to as madame president. that sort of thing happened. this was the first time someone went out attempting to find direct, and found what they thought was direct, and publicized it widely. >> who was the person? >> he was in cincinnati, and he hated jackson and want to see him go down. he did not care what it took. when he found out that she had been divorced, he despised her. was a very -- he fundamentalist. it was a moral issue for him. he thought she would disgrace the white house. >> how did adams planted this campaign? -- what amot really

i trying to say? >> he did not do it, but he did not stop it. he was one of his party hacks and he did not come down on it. he sat back and said, oh my goodness. >> we saw in the open, political cartoons that were targeted. was this a new phenomenon? >> yes. to call a lady who had been married for 36 years a whore, and adulteress, of bigamist, that was unprecedented. >> people -- the crux of the story is what? what was the criticism against her? what would she accused of doing? >> she was accused of being married before she met jackson. was a bigamist.

>> she was married before, of very unhappily. a man who treated her and her family very badly. profamily hated him. out west, they did not believe you had to stick by your man for 50 years if he was horrible. any believed in dissolving unhappy marriage. >> criticism of her and the western frontier, lack of class. >> she had an accent. she had a tennessee accent. she did not have an east coast accent. >> concerned about what of the image of the new country would be? >> there is a strong class issue that runs through all of this. it is difficult in a country that supposedly does not have class. would this person be virtuous enough to represent the united states? is this person to until enough

to represent the united states? >> -- a genteel enough to represent the united states? >> she is preparing to go with them and what happens? >> she dies. at first, she thought she would not go. she thought the situation was too volatile that people might snub her. she thought about not going. she decided that it would be admitting they were wrong. she decided to go and on december 22, she died of a heart attack. >> she was buried in the dress that she planted where? >> should plan to wear it to the inaugural ball. >> this is our first video tonight. we will take you to the

hermitage, their home in tennessee and learn more about jackson. >> we do not know what kind of help for rachael was an overall. it is apparent that throughout the fall of 1828, her health was not very good. the campaign for president that jackson was going through had a huge effect on her health. this is a letter that jackson wrote on a day that rachael died, december 22, 1828. he is writing to his friend. in a letter, he describes the onset of her illness. he says that she was a few days , suddenly and violently attacked with pains in her left shoulder. suffocation was apprehended.

it was clear that she was in very serious condition. he talks about getting ready to go to washington like he is assuming she is going to get better and off we will go. unfortunately, she passed away later in the day. according to the stories of her death, jackson called for her to be glad when she died. jackson was a big believer in hurlock medicine, madison would medicine.relicoic supposedly, there is a small stain on this cap. some things about his mourning,

a black calling card that he printed. a poem that was published and later printed on silk talking about the death of mrs. jackson. a book that was given to him by a friend of his that has a long and strip -- inscription and it is called the mourner comforted. jackson was completely devastated. for her to died just before -- just as he was preparing the plans to get on a steamboat was more than he could deal with. this steamboat -- this pendant was painted after rachel's death. he had with them all the time, either in his pocket or on a beaded chain, on his bedside table at night.

much allith him pretty the time, even though she had passed away. this is a book that was very important to jackson. she made this cross stitch cover for her books so that it would keep the book and ice. after her death, jackson kept a number of things like this very close at hand so he could refer to them. in another way of keeping rachael close. he had this habit of purchasing or using or keeping things that reminded thehim of her. this is the central hallway of the permit to dimension. jackson insisted that they -- of the hermitage mansion. this is his bedroom and after her death, she was never far

away from him. he kept many mementos effort around. in the early 1830's, he had a portrait that was a special favorite of his copied so that he could have it hanging over the fireplace. e would go out to hurt hher tob every evening about sundown to spend some time out there. he bled the feel of her close by or something. -- he wanted to feel love for close by or something. >> this program is interactive and we welcome your participation. you can call us. our phone lines are --

you can send us a tweet. or you can go to our facebook page. we have a conversation running with viewers about this program. here is a tweet from sheldon cooper. >> it would have been much like -- she did not like extensive entertaining, but she was very religious. what she liked to do was to hear the leading preachers of the day, have family and friends are around her in the white house. i think it would have been a very domesticated white house. >> the same person asked another question. any famous dignitaries attend her funeral? she was buried two days after

she died. given the way people traveled, and nobody could have made it. all of the local dignitaries, all the businesses in town, everything closed down and there was a huge attendance at her funeral. >> it is time to step back and tell little bit about bill love story, the great love story between rachael and andrew jackson. >> she was the daughter of one of the first families of tennessee. she and her whole family came to tennessee via 1,000 mile river trip in which many people on the trip died. earlieste some of the white settler said. her family was quite prominent in the area. she was part of the gentry of tennessee. >> we have a question by twitter

of someone wanting to know how unusual it was at the age of 24 to be on their second husband. was that considered unusual? >> people died all the time. not live alone. most people remarried because you needed to have the support in order to live. >> the difference here was the debate divorced. >> -- the difference here was that they divorced. >> widows and would worse always remarried. -- what wars always remembered. it was peculiar for someone not to remarry. about 10rst husband years her senior. make a match?y >> her family left the area of

nashville because the war between the whites and the indians was so ferocious and so strong. .he battle for territory they left and went to kentucky where things were safer. >> how long did the marriage last? >> i have to do the math on that. three or four years. he was too mean. >> he was a nasty abusive person. but it tookourage, more than that predicted the support of her family. she would never have left him and for family had not supported her. you could not live without a family out last. she adored her family. they were pretty much a part of the whole decision. >> who was andrew jackson at the time she met him? >> nobody.

>> he had been and local militias. meet? did they >> he was one of the borders at they had a fort worth they lived and he was in one of the cottages with another bachelor lawyer. why is one of the gentry renting out cottages? being anof this ongoing war, extra bonds on hand is always a good thing. >> -- guns on hand is always a good thing. >> explain about what the region of the country was like. >> this is the far west at this point. of the settlers from tennessee came by river the long way or they came over the mountains, but this was still very rough country.

>> next is a question. this is from mitchell in nashville, tenn.. i had noticed earlier where you put up that herbert was in june. in june.rthday was my understanding was nobody knew her exact date of birth was. is that correct? >> the day is not known at all. it is believed it was june because that is part of that tradition. he then that is a little up in the air. >> next is a question from martha. whitenderstood only property owners -- men -- voted during that time. >> that is correct. that was a growing thing. in the early days, it was only white property owners of a

certain standing. as we moved through this period, the franchise to expand to white males. the tall meets handsome and jackson. they are attracted to one another. >> it is even more than just attracted. jackson truly liked women. to see womenbear mistreated or badly treated in any way. his gallantry was involved in what he saw was of use of this woman. when they fell in love, they decided to elope. >> how long did they stayed there? months, aayed several close to a year. when they came back, they simply

said, we are married now. is whole family said, this our son-in-law, and jackson. who is going to tell them know? who is going to say, what about that other husband? people just except that because the family, neighbors, and friends accepted it. >> when did in may -- the details become a parent? >> the divorce was filed for in virginia by the husband, but there were stipulations in that settlement that had to be posted a certain amount of time. he did not go through with posting all of its right away. >>. at fault here? -- who is at fault here? >> that is for a jury to decide. >> they had to taken to court in kentucky. by that time, they had been

living together as a married couple for two years. when he accused her of adultery, she was living with andrew jackson. if she had gone back and fought it, she would still be married to this person she hated. they just ignored it and quietly we married. >> when did the spermatids become their home? hermitagech -- the become their home? >> they started at a bigger place and then he got into some financial troubles and they moved to the hermit tiscage. this property in 18 04. retiring forort of a while. he spent a lot of time at home

when they first moved here. their primary people who would have been visited would have been friends and relations from the dance -- area. rachel had a huge family and they all have lots of kids. there was a lot of them and they were in and out all the time. she was very close to our family. jackson was an orphan and he was close to a family. emily donelson, the house she grew up in is less than 2 miles from here. after the war of 1812, there were people here all the time. rachel was pretty -- and knowledge to be a pretty nice hostess. ferry cordial and very welcoming. during jackson's fame after the battle of new orleans, they have lots and lots of company and they had many parties or evening

dinner is here. they were entertaining people who were used to find things in the city. ofy acquired a great deal silver as they went along. they would have been used for an evening party were some very highly clicker dup punch was served. she had a very nice things. as adual image of her frumpy country lady, she was not? exactly. it was more about her comforts in the big cities than it was orut her actual appearance clothing. she was not a fan of anything that took andrew jackson away from the hermitage. during the war of 1812, there are letters from per that say not lead to yes, do

fame and fortune blind to the fact that you have a wife and i need you. i think he knew pretty well that she would have preferred him to stay home and be plantation owner and andrew jackson. this is the earliest letter we have that jackson wrote to rachael and it was written in 1796 when he was in east tennessee on business. it is addressed to her, my dearest heart. with greatest pleasure i sit down to write to you, my heart rests with you. when i shall be restored to your arms to spend my days in domestic sweetness with you the dinner companion of my life, never to be separated from you again. the guard was always considered

one of for really special places -- guarded was always considered one of her release special places. one story, all lady was here on her honeymoon. she mentioned that the garden was very special. when they were preparing to leave, to move on to the next stage, she walked to the garden and rachael gathered flowers. talking about the jacksonian era. we will take a question from twitter. did rachel jackson provide political guidance to enter jackson? >> i do not know if we know that. he probably took care of the political himself. >> i would think practically, no.

ofrecords -- we have a lot their letters. they're always personal. they're not about politics. >> we were talking about the program about his very large personality. will you tell the audience about that? >> he was absolutely sure of his beliefs. wholeheartedly. when he saw people disagreed with him, he often took that as a sign of enmity. that was really difficult personal enmity, yes. saw guidance have from any other person. >> he would make his decision. what he really could not stand was someone who was a friend or relative who disagreed with them because that was personally

dishonest as far as he was concerned. >> we will learn more about how bad unfolds in his presidency. -- how bad and folds in his presidency. >> how many slaves to the jackson have in tennessee? with a travel within to the white house? had 300 odd slaves. it was a rather large plantation. traveled withtime large numbers of slaves. they would bring a couple of personal servants. asings had become iffier abolitionist sentiment grew up. it became less and less possible to bring slaves to free territories. >> jackson wins the election and comes to washington. tell us the story of his

inaugural party. he has the inauguration, he arrives on horseback back to the house. the public is invited. there are about 20,000 people. the house is open to the public and this is the democratic republic of the people of the they crash into the house and a dance on the tables, they drink on the wind. there was a 1,600 pound cheese that had been sent as a gift. the white house was beaten up pretty bad. even jackson had to be escorted out of this because they were afraid for his safety. >> he left the party early. >> we have been talking about the burgeoning and strong washington society that was developing. how did react to this opening of the white house? >> with horror.

, who kept diaries and letters, said, it is not the way it was with every other party after an inauguration. it was part of the selected few who came, not the public. >> once the party was over, this was the man described in being an intense morning. tofirst of all, they had refinish it and replace all the andes and the chair seats put things together. even after that, to the disappointment of washington society, we will not be giving parties. >> let's take a quick glimpse of america and that time. with census bureau statistics. 12.9 millionn is

in 24 states. more than 30% growth sense 10 years earlier. 10 years earlier. the largest cities are in new york, philadelphia, and baltimore of. >> it is a period of incredible change. much like the period we have gone through with the revolution -- information revolution. we have gone from an agrarian society to being the society of multiple ethnicities, multiple religions, waves of new immigration, the railroads, the telegraph. thehat was happening to north-south unity? >> north-south the 90 was always a difficult one. the founding fathers was -- never settled that question.

wethe time we get to 1820, have an economic crisis. we have the missouri crisis. it precipitates a quick fix, we will put in one free state and will put in one slave state. by the time we're getting into early '30's,s and the specter of slavery is raising its head again. >> the next question comes from virginia. >> i was calling because i may have missed -- i wanted to get in earlier. virginia.ia county, we have in our court house of portrait of rachael because she was born here supposedly in 7016 -- 1767. which was the year we broke off an organizer county. her father was a survey year.

supposedly left her when she was 12. the gossip was that he had to leave town because they were interested in some of his surveys. anyway, we do have the site left from theks frame house. >> thank you, mary. it was where she was born and lived until she was 12. we know nothing about her girlhood. we extrapolate that it was like the girlhoods of other children on the western edges of settled territory. >> next is a columbus, ohio. >> i was calling to see if she had any children. >> know. despite her wish for children,

she had no children. she was one of the 11th. most of her brothers and sisters had very large families. she had no children of her own. of twin sonsone that belong to her brother and sister-in-law. there was an andrew jackson jr.. >> we talk about the adopted boy? ,> there was also another son jackson had been in battle and found -- and had slaughtered many people. found an infant, it tried to you'd killed all of this family anyway. jackson takes him home and racism as a son. it is a very -- and raises him as his son. it is a very interesting story.

he writes a lot of letters citing, there is something special, he is an orphan, i was an orphan. there is some reason i found him. he is not to be in the servant'' quarters. he is to be in the house and he is to be educated. he wanted to send him to west point. year was a fairly quiet one. politics by this time in washington. when does he decide he needs some assistance? rachael denise and nephew were with him all the time. and nephew niece were with him all the time. this particular young man had

been one of their wards and became the president's secretary. he had married his first cousin and a planned all along and accompanied him. she create the role? oung, she had very good manners, she was trained at a ladies' academy. one of the main reasons they loved her was because she was yawned and malleable. and valuable. they always liked the innocents. >> he lived fairly large in the white house it seemed. a very nice party, lots of money spent on redecorating.

how did that square with his public image? >> he believed in democracy with a small d. he was for a concerned about money interest and elites controlling the country. believed in people being part of the democracy. >> it did not preclude entertaining. >> it did not preclude him being rigid learning how to interact in society. a he always wanted to be gentleman, that was one of his goals, to prove that he was a gentlemen. if you looked at the controversy, in the early days, other men did not treat him as equals. >> next up is colorado. >> i would like to note, what thethe bid to do about

election of 1828? we know what was said about rachel jackson, but what was the comments on the other side? among other things, they said john quincy adams was a pimp. it was based on a little thing, but it had nothing to do with sexual activity. they said a lot of bad things about items. and also about his wife. she was, they believed, a foreigner. washad american parents and legally an american, but they saw her as a bad influence. >> she was not happy in the white house see there. washington was a little town. >> scandal, intrigue, and it was

not just in 1828. what became known as an affair. it framed much of the jackson presidency. was the daughter of a washington, d.c., hotel keeper. many politicians stayed in his hotel and the family got to know them well. she was beautiful, well- educated, she liked to perform. she appeared in public, which god forbid a lady should do. quite quite.as not >> she was beautiful, vivacious, and she did not know her place. she interfered and went into situations that were part of the men trauma. this is a period where -- men's

realm. to guard's sphere is the households and the morals of society. the men go out and fight in this new capitalist world. margaret, that is what she liked to be called, she was somebody who was going up against a different class and was going added in a very difficult way. she was outspoken and bold and that was not a woman. >> how did she become an issue for the cabinet? >> her husband killed himself. widow.e was a one person who had consistently was johnthe hotel henry eaton, who was one of

jackson's closest friends. rachel. supporter of and he was worried that he might have ruined her reputation. there was a lot of talk that they had had an affair and that is why her husband killed himself. he asked jackson, should i marry her? jackson said, certainly. he was always -- >> jackson was familiar with her. >> he liked her. >> he knew her when she was a young girl. he felt she was perfectly respectable and this was a good thing. >> how did rise to the level -- >> they married to soon. soon. that was a problem. >> once the cabinet was named,

.t included eaton and his wife she goes and calls on one of the wives. she refuses to return her calls. nowadays, we do not know what that means. in those days, that was a can to slapping someone in the face. -- akin to slapping someone in the face. >> society was very structured. you would visit the vice- president and you would leave your card. she started in on this process, but she didn't incorrectly. -- did it in correctly. >> jackson's cabinet was in an uproar and many resignations because of this. >> all the wives refuse to call

on peggy eaton. when the president gave a big to force theseng women to recognize her, they would walk on. everything was so ugly and margaret was totally mortified. among those who gave the cut to margaret was emily donelson. >> we have two quotes from jackson. do you suppose that i have been censured by the people to consult the ladies of washington? here is another one, i tell you, margaret, i rather have live vermin on my back benetton of

one of these washington women on my reputation. did it become a constitutional crisis? hisnfortunately, it was defense that turned it from a social crisis into a political crisis. he could not leave it alone. he spent enormous amounts of time trying to defend her honor. tracking down the people would made these terrible comments. mindly, it becomes in his that it has to be an attack against him as well. that is when he sees calhoun behind all of this. >> bringing this back to his niece. he could not abide by family members who disagreed with him. >> she was so influenced by the

in thethat she joined ostracism of margaret. he demanded -- she did receive for at the white house -- he demanded that she treat her as a friend. she would not. so he sent her home. >> next is a question from john in virginia. >> great series, as always. i am wondering how andrew jackson's personality or approach was affected by him becoming a widower. wilson quickly run married, which was not the case here. was there any noticeable change? >> he was devastated. >> he was not just devastated, he was embittered. the whole first term did not

accomplish anything. he was either in morning or he was attempting to help peggy eaton out. he was fighting with his favorites niece and nephew. it was the thing that involved him because he saw her as a surrogate for rachel. her thisould treat way, they might have treated his wife that way. he could not let it go. >> next up is a call from dorothy in ohio. >> thank you for taking my call. the program has been remarkable so far. racial live with it and jackson's fiery temper -- rachel live with andrew jackson's fiery temper? >> the only person who could control jackson when he was in a

rage was rachael. one particular time, but they were going down river and there was the boat ahead of them with a number of happy young folks who were all drunk. they were zigzagging so that their boat was being held up. he said, i will kill a couple of them. she stopped that whole operation. i do not know if you would have were not, but maybe. >> next is nancy from new jersey. >> i would like to know if either of your guests have ever depicting theovie jacksons with charlton heston and susan hayward. i saw it as a young woman and it showed a beautiful love story. was it accurate? >> it was not particularly accurate, but it had a great

looking actors. out in 1951. it was a best seller for years. >> last question for this part of our program is on twitter. it sets the stage for the next half hour. what was secretary of state van buren as role in the petticoat a fair? >> he had the unfortunate widower of being a little wor himself. was free to go and see margarets when he did. he called on her frequently. he treated her well and he gained tremendous respect from jackson for that. 19th century historian said the

whole political history of the last 30 years can be attributed to the moment when the soft hand of martin van bureau touched margaret's knocker. van buren steps in and places himself in position to be the next one to run for president. successfulbecome a bid for president? >> he resigned, he got eaton to resign. he got the rest of the cabinet to resign. jackson said you just cannot resign. he nominated him to be the minister, the ambassador to great britain. martin van buren left for great britain, a very happy to be the ambassador.

>> martin van buren comes to the white house, and he is the first northerner,, yet -- new york state. he was the first born at with american citizenship. the atomsrst for him, were of english descent. were of english descent. >> he grew up speaking dutch. >> his wife died many years before. will listen now to white house historian. was a southern bell, a

tall girl. today, you would say she was athletic looking. she married abraham van buren. columbia,om your south carolina. she had plenty of money. summer in the area of fort jackson. , --bought pretty close clothes, she was apparently a lot of fun. she and abraham went to europe on their honey -- great britain on their honeymoon. she had a platform built at the end of the blue room. she received all for france --

her friends. they just nodded, they did not shake hands or anything. it was not taken very well. they did not like that at all. the platform was removed. not a lot known about her. very few letters. of that time.e >> martin van buren came to the white house as a bachelor with a number of sons. was a quiet place? >> it was very quiet. he was facing a tremendous political crisis because of the panic of 1837. he inherited from jackson and jackson's policy. >> several weeks after he was inaugurated.

>> he was a depression president. >> this is the first huge economic depression. we had a small one in 1819, but it was not nearly at this scale. we had an interconnected global economy. there were calls on banks from london. started toing crisis collapse, we do not have a national currency at this point. state banks start to collapse and everything dries up. >> what was the death of the depression for most americans? >> -- death of depression for most americans? >> there were riots over food in new york city. on in 43.still going >> its got a little bit better, but not nearly for a long time. did he have the ability to

resolve the crisis? a fad. is before we have he did recommend an independent treasury system. martin van buren and the democratic party had been arguing against this kind of federal projects. they backed themselves into a corner. >> i do not think anyone at that time could of dealt with a major depression. they had to wait for the economy to appeal. >> they did not have the tools. they did not know what was causing it. they did not have a structure in place. we did not solve this problem until we got the new deal. >> with this great trial going on, how interested was the administration and having a social?

>> he was a very social person. he was very personable. he always liked women. he had lots of women friends. there was still a social side to the white house. a lot of this politicking was done socially. >> in terms of large-scale entertaining, a new year's day party was pretty much his big party until his eldest son married. >> here is how we have to bring -- here is where we have to bring and dolly madison. the great character of our program. the queen mother, she had a beautiful cousin, angelica. martin van bureau had four

singles sons. she introduced them all. >> her husband had died. she moved back to washington. she loved the washington scene. >> she was right there. she immediately jumped into the social swing. she came back there as a widow. >> we talk about the van buren administration. >are you there? i was calling about mrs. jackson. i thought she had a son. i would like to comment on

impression with the press. >> thank you so much. the adopted indian/american child that died shortly before jackson went to washington. angelica singleton's first year, van buren spent the first year in the white house without a hostess. angelica and abraham married in november of the next year. she was hostess for the' 39 season. everyone shouting she was beautiful and glamorous and did an outstanding job and swhept on an outstanding honeymoon in europe. she had gone to the french

academy and learned all of this. then she came back for the next season is when she sort of had a problem and that's when she tried the tableau at the new year's open house and this is a country that is interested in democracy. this is just the beginning of the next presidential election season and here angelica acting in a queenly manner. it didn't go over so well. >> this may be self-evident from what you just told us. did angelica want to serve as first lady or was it just expected of her as the only woman in the family? >> she was dying to. it was all glamour and wonderment. she wanted a bigger stage for herself too. >> angelica van buren was o new bride when she hook on her hostessing duties. what was the initial opinion of

her? >> she was young. people liked to see pictures of her. it was the trip to europe that did her in and that did a great deal of harm to the van buren administration. she was too naive to realize that she had gone overboard and she was shocked when public opinion lashed out at her, because we were in a depression, and here she was poseing with dais as ifthers on a she were a quine. >> how did she present herself? >> they built it. there was no dais in the receiving room. if she sat on a sofa, that would have been so anti-republican. angelica didn't know better. she had seen victoria. she had seen france. she built the platform and wore the ostrich feathers, in white.

after the newspapers, particularly after the whig politicians took over talking about the born with golden spoons in their mouths and wasting the public money, they actually tore out to platform. >> how did the europeans receive the first couple? >> incredible. they really took europe by storm. >> did that help in international politics, the image? >> well, not exactly. angelica's mother's brother was actually the minister to the court of st. jame james. he was a holdover. he was called a slave breeder by an irish militant. so there was growing tension there. the publicity of angelica on a positive side didn't really

cover up those deeper problems. >> we're telling the story of two widowed presidents who had relatives serve for them as the role of first lady in the white house. a basic question. why was it so important for unmarried and widowed presidents to have a hostess and would that be true for a single president today? >> i don't know. i think there is some importance to it. not as much today as there was then. in a parliamentary system where you have the chief of state and the prime minister and the president, there is someone to do those ceremonial duties. we sort of piled all of that on the president. there is a function there for a president's partner. that may be too modern. there is a social and entertaining piece that is there. i think it is difficult for these bachelor presidents to pull it off without having a female there. >> entertaining women, ladies of the time, there had to be a

hostess. a man alone couldn't do it. thomas jefferson was well known for not being a good entertainer. for preferring men only. when he did entertain, he asked dolley madison or one of his daughters. but basically to have these large entertainment -- to greet the ladies, you needed a lady. >> this is a house. it is the woman's here again. -- atmosphere again. t is still the woman's sphere. it is a tension between politics and society that is heightnd in the white house. >> what's your question, chad? angelicastion is while was presented to the english queen victoria, what was her impression? >> we were told that she was

charmed by victoria. we don't know of any subsequent correspondence. yes, they were about the same age age. >> i really think european court were fascinated and really relieved that they turned out to be civilized. that they were not backwoods barbarians, which is what they expected of americans. >> angelica's family was wealthy. angelica herself had a great interest in fashion. she would have come in the best -- the dress in the white house portrait is the dress she was presented to queen in. she was polished. >> two seemingly very different family cultures. angelica singleton coming from the plantation life, very wealthy in the south. slave-holding family, i would presume. with the van burens from new york state, very different approach. how does it work? >> van buren was not a backward

country clog. van buren loved society. he was known as a little magician because he was always and g off little plans those who disliked him like calhoun, said he just i.e.a. peels to the -- abelows to the ladies. >> this is a little side bar. some people didn't know the story. martin van buren is responsible for the universal expression. >> yes. during the election of 1840, supporters of van buren who started referring to him as old kinder hook. the phrase o.k. hit the streets in boston and it was picked up. it was a way to talk about old kinderhook. it became the o.k. expression

that we use all the time. >> what's your question, georgia? >> i would like to know whether angelica did anything beyond hostsing? any public policy? the people on the missouri frontier were disappointed of him not helping with their causes because they had conflict with the other frontiersmen? did she do advising or was she strictly a hostess? >> we have no evidence of her delving into politics. actually even later in life, even during the civil war, she is quite quiet about where her sentiments fell. she clearly does not express a political view. i think she would not have had any influence. >> her influence was a negative one. >> because of her mistake. she was young and she made mistakes. >> did she recover?

>> she did, i think >> they said they tore out the dais and she stopped doing the posing, but by then the administration was almost over anyway. >> this wasn't -- angelica wasn't going to sink the administration. there were not to mention this terrible depression. there were some serious issues that the united states you see was really just coming to talk about. slavery being a huge one. indian removal being a huge one. these are really big difficult issues. the sides, the north and the south are pulling apart from each other, quickly pulling apart from each other and room r negotiation is rapidly evaporating. >> do you know anything in more detail, the question from the caller in utah about the mormons and van buren? >> i don't. >> let's take a question now from bill in staton island, new york. hi, bill. you are on the program.

welcome. >> how are you doing? this is a side bar. in the gore vidal book about aaron burr, he insinuates that burr is the true father of martin van buren. how serious would that claim be? >> well, it is actually called "burr, a novel." i will say it is a delightful tale and he did look sort of like that. it is almost impossible, although during the of 1840, that was certainly raised. van buren had been a close associate of aaron burr's. jackson had actually been a close associate of aaron burr's as well. both of them charmed by him. but the likelihood that, you know, that martin van buren's mother, living in this tavern in kinderhook, new york, after having all of these kids already, she had already been married once before, having an affair with aaron burr was

highly unlikely. >> bethany johnson on twitter. i would like to know if angelica had any kids? >> yes, she did. that's one thing about these young women in the white house. they are pregnant much of the time. they are either pregnant or they have given birth and they are nursing or the child died and they are mourning. that was angelica's situation. >> angelica was pregnant twice in the white house. the first child she lost, rebecca and shortly after the tableau scene, she retreated from public life because she was already present and women were kept in private after that. >> yes. she had three after the presidency she had three boys. >> singleton, travis and martin iii. >> terry in independence, missouri. >> hi, you're on. >> hi. i was wondering why martin van buren didn't marry after his wife died? >> interesting question.

martin van buren talks very little about hanna. they were first cousins. >> hanna was his wife. >> they had, you know, they had all of these children together. he had her reinterred in kinderhoom later in his life. we don't have many stories about romantic dalliances with other women or possibly proposing. he had friendships with women. >> rachel davidson asks why did martin van buren mention hanna in his autobiography? it is true. he did not mention her. it is a rambling bit of a biography. it is 800 pages lodge. his son, john, when he had his first child, wanted to name her after his mother.

he probably didn't talk to his sons very much about his wife. he always kept a locket with a painting of her with him and that's all we know. >> we're going to take people by video to a place you know well next. the historic home, now the historic home that the van burens occupied. can you tell us about it before we see it it? >> sure, it is the house he bought while he was president in case the white house didn't work out. we know that it didn't. it was the home of one of his nemesis in kinderhook. he was very pleased to acquire that property. >> well, we're going to visit it in kinderhook, new york. you'll see that next. >> angelica and her husband abraham would spend the summers here. there were occasions where they would spend parts of the winter months here. president van buren lived here.

here in the dining room angelica van buren would have served as hostess. he had a number of political event here's. during those times, angelica, if she was at the house here, she would be the hostess for those occasions just as she was at the white house. she was quite refined being that shofse so wealthy. she had all of the appropriate social grace at the time. the ambassador from france complimented angelica van buren. martin van buren purchased this home in 1839 in the second year of his presidency. along with 100 acres. later hed another 100 acres. here in the greenroom, typically the women in the house would engage in a number of activities, polite conversation, read or recite from memory to one another. they would play parlor games in here. angelica van buren was trained in philadelphia on the harp. we have a harp here.

we have occasions where she would play the harp for other female guests here in the greenroom. this is the breakfast room here at lindenhall. it is the place where the fall had their daily meals. the china that you see here is the daily china used in the household here. they ate all of these plates. you can imagine her serving somebody tea from the picture or passing the gravy boat. in july of 1843, while angelica and abraham were visiting her farm here she suffered a iscarriage and we know here -- we know she conventionalsed on this couch here at the main hall. she had another baby girl die as an infant while she was there. angelica and abraham had three adulthoodhood.

they would have spent a great deal of time while visiting her farnl, president van van buren. it is easy to imagine her wearing one of these dresses here at one of the events at lindenhall. or at the white house. the parasol she likely would have used while she was out strolling on the grounds. it was a large farm of 240 acres. i believe that martin van buren and his daughter in law, angelica, had a close relationship. he was a very amiable man. that is why he was successful in politics. she was trained in the social grace. i think they generally -- genuinely cared for one another. >> we were looking at clothes. there were a number of them preserved at different places. >> yes, the smithsonian. >> we have been talking

throughout the series about the early first ladies and who were the they influenced fashion trends in the country. looking at these clothes, was angelica van buren a fashion trendsetter for the country? >> she certainly was. for the portions of society that could afford those kind s of dresses. she was definitely like jackie kennedy, someone to be emulated. >> well, let's talk about kinderhook and how the van buren family used it after they lost the white house. >> this is a period in american history when farming was actually something you could make money at. and van buren actually did put a lot of sbeefert running it as a working, -- effort into running it as a productive working farm and making money doing it. that was an important come opponent of life. he also had his family there. he had his cousins and nieces and nephews from his wife's brothers and sisters come.

he had the singleton family stay there and john van buren, his wife stayed there. it was a household full of family. >> he also had continuing political ambitions? >> absolutely. he left the white house. although he never claimed to run again, he certainly made it clear if the country called for him, he would do his duty and step forward. in 1834 he thought he was going the get the democratic nomination in baltimore and he didn't. it was a big deal and it was yet again another major crack in this national party between north and south. >> what about his bid with the free -- >> sort of like another dutch president, theodore roosevelt who bucks the party he represented in the bull moose election, martin van buren comes up in 1848 and makes a substantial decision that he is

going to go against what he spent his life working for, the united unified national democratic party. he would run the third party campaign with his son john. he runs on the free soil, free liberty ticket. it is a very interesting party. a forerunner of the republican party. and they basically believed in free soil, free labor and free men. >> is there any evidence that angelica and/or her husband and various other brothers were involved in the president's future ambitions? >> no, not really. john was involved because john stayed political, but certainly the others weren't. abraham went to west point with jefferson davis and robert e. lee. he had frepsd on other sides of this issue -- friends on other sides of this issue. >> before she was widowed, she

spent the last part of her life in new york city. again that, cosmopolitan yearning. >> let's take a call from courtney in naples, florida. >> good evening. grew up in the 1930's and 1940's. my recollection of lindenwald is the following. abandon e, it was an home. it was in disrepair. wild ounds were totally and any evidence of a farm was totally absent, and i guess my question is at what point did this property get improved? my recollection is that a man with some wealth bought property and started to repair it and then the government took it over. could you fill that part of the story in?

>> sure. your memory is quite accurate. van buren and van buren's family lost lindenwald after van buren died. they lost it almost immediately. it became a farmhouse and by the 1930's had been run down. they tried to pick a a tea out -- make a tea house out of it. a couple of other things. basically it had never been owned by anybody who had enough money to do anything great for it but also didn't have enough money to ruin it either. jim campbell purchased the house and tried to restore it somewhat and saved it from being a complete ruin and then legislation was passed to make it part of the national parks service and it was the national parks service that restored the house in the 1980's. next is a call from marilyn in sarasota, florida. >> how are you doing?

i'm enjoying your program. i'm wondering what angelica's husband, abraham did, while she was acting as hostess in the white house and where they lived while she was there? >> thank you. they lived in the white house. the president's staff always lived in the white house in the 19th century. that's why they usually had relatives because they wanted people that they got along with. if there was an available son or nephew. they lived in the white house in the family quarters and abraham was the secretary and the principle aide to his father. >> he fought in the seminole war and during the mexican war he went back and became a paid master. >> hanna didn't seem to be a moving figure in his life. >> what i wanted to say was that van buren was not so odd in not

mentioning his wife. many 19th century leaders of political or scientific leaders would talk about their lives without mentioning wives or children. that was just so personal. it had nothing to do with their success. >> well, we have about seven mince left. what i would like to do -- minutes left and what i would like to do is wrap all of this up and talk about the time period, two administrations, jackson follow bid the van buren, very much intertwined with scandals of politics. let's talk in a broad sense about the changing country and the changing political parties. >> one of the major things that we forget because we're so comfortable with the united states being a two-party system and that being what democracy is or at least is here, we forget that drurg the early remember republic, -- during the early republic, there wasn't a two-heart system, that the founding fathers hated parties

and thought they would be terrible for democracy. there was this generation, particularly martin van buren who said we need to have an ordered, structured system, of making political things happen and that's the parties. we have to have a philosophy. we have to show up together and vote on the same thing and we have to hang together, or these sections of the country or these differences in the democracy will spin out of control and actually they did. >> how did washington, d.c. change over these 12 years? >> it grew like crazy. at the beginning, of course, was -- cally just kind of a big with trees and dirt and then there would be a house and a building there. then it became actually a city and it became a place to take account of. it was 40,000 -- i think what is so important about this period is that it is the time when

steamboats have changed the whole situation about settling from the south. slave power is growing. it is the most profitable part of the country. abolition sentiment is growing like crazy in the north. that's why we see somebody like van buren running on the free soil ticket, which is in fact, an abolitionist party. >> yeah, this great elephant in the middle of the room, which is slavery, really comes into focus and we have set the stage for the coming of the most horrific test of democracy that we had. the civil war. >> interestingly, during this time period, we had two apolitical first ladies serving these very tumultuous -- >> she writes that she is loving these old renderings.

how did this white house change during these years? >> the north port co was added. that piece that you see sticking out from the house. van buren redecorated the white house. put in plumbing and central heating. got a lot of guff for it. the blue room was first called the blue room during the van buren white house. >> jackson spent a lot of money on it as well. that was on basic repairs. one thing, if you're following the history of that building, is that it starts out a certain way and then it gets all run down and things break, just as it does with your own house, and they keep putting off repairs and putting off repairs. when they do them, they are pretty much needed. >> especially if you're andrew jackson and bring 20,000 people inside. >> that too. isabella in davenport, iowa, you're on the air. welcome. they as wondering why did

usually marry their relatives? >> ok. isabella, can i ask you how old you are? >> 12. >> and are you learning a lot watching this program? >> yes. >> well, we're glad to have you in the audience. thanks for your question. >> well, particularly in frontier settlements where there were a limited number of people, oftentimes your cousins would be the only once who would be available to you and so it was not uncommon at all. it really wasn't even uncommon for double first cousins to marry, which sometimes happened. people didn't have any sense that there was anything odd about it. it seemed like a good thing because you knew what that person was like. you knew all about them. and there wouldn't be any bad surprises in marriage. >> in van buren's case, she was a dutch speaker and married into

the dutch community. these were their own people. >> i want to show you the book she had written, one about martha washington, we showed you earlier. this is her story about rachel and andrew jackson and being so gentle. it is for those of you who want to learn more. it only skims the surface, these 90 minutes here. let me have you talk about a theme michael has brought us back to several times. the changing role of women in politics. what was happening for women and their fiblet influence politics during this period? >> with the abolition -- there were many women reformers who were part of that great movement who were also feminists and so it wasn't so peculiar to see women having opinions. earlier when you say oh, did these young girls actually have any political influence? not at all. people thought that was right thing. good thing too they didn't think

anything about politics, but that was changing drastically. >> well, thank you. how did the ladies during the administrations deal with the panic of 1837? you would say not so well? >> they, like everybody else, had no idea what was going on. i mean, it really was a panic panic. >> nor how long it would last. >> nor how long it would last. >> we have one last question. john in oklahoma city. >> my quick question was i've always heard that the van burens spoke dutch in the white house. you may have already answered this but it is a story. what president's family spoke a foreign language in the white house? the answer that is often given is the family of martin van buren. >> i don't believe his children did. i doubt that he spoke dutch in the white house. he certainly spoke dutch