>> today on c-span, homeland security. and tomorrow, hyper partisanship and politics. and later, the clinton foundation on "washington journal -- on tuesday, 10 napolitano said a solution to illegal immigrants -- janet napolitano said a solution to illegal immigrants should not involve -- this is one hour. >> ok, folks. i will give you a little time to

eat. thanks for coming, everyone. i am david cook from the monitor. our guest is secretary of homeland security janet napolitano. new york city native grew up in pittsburgh and albuquerque. after graduating from the university of virginia law school, she moved to cynics in 1983 to a clerk for a court of law -- she moved to phoenix to clerk for a court of appeals judge. she was elected arizona's state attorney general in 1988 -- 1998. in was elected governor 2006. she has hiked the himalayas, climbed mount kilimanjaro, and is a major basketball fan. so much for a biography.

on to monday and mechanical minutes. -- bloggingoggi ng breakfastng when the is underway. of preservingt stability, if you would like to ask the question, please do the traditional thing and send me a subtle, non-threatening signal. we will start off by asking our guests to make opening comments and then moved to questions from around the table. that you forry, being here. >> i have been here in different roles as i have had different jobs at different times. celebratingwe are the 10th anniversary of the

department of homeland security, which is in its infancy when you talk about institution-building at the governmental level. it is the largest organization of these federal government since the creation of the defense department. it was combined of the 22 separate agencies from all kinds of legacy departments as well as new things like federalizing the airport screening work force. the time post-9/11 was dhs 1.0. it was finally recognizing the threats out in the world in a concrete way. it was taking the initial steps to organize the department was it was enacted. of ridge deserves a lot credit for that. that is hard work to bring that many people and agencies under one roof. cheroff continued that

tradition during his time as a deterrent. we were building on the foundation that they had laid. we were getting a better and are mature sense of risk, better and more mature sense of what our value days in things like the intelligence community. a workbegan to build force to sustain the department over time. as we headed to president obamas's second term, we have 3.0. to dhs the threats are evolve and so quickly. we want to make sure we are taking care of the fundamentals, particularly in areas like counterterrorism, even as we expand to address new and rapidly growing threats such as

the threats to our cyber networks. in thes going on department in this regard. i might mention a few particular issues. cyber. we didn't work force analysis and brought in on a voluntary basis a lot of experts from the private sector and other places -- we did a workforce analysis and brought in, on a voluntary basis, a lot of experts from the private sector and other places. the president's budget has consistently poured more money into cyber. the budget that was adopted last week also does the same thing and has an anomaly for cyber in there. i spend a lot of my time working through the arrangements. how do we organize ourselves fbi?the nsa and the

a lot of time is being spent organizing ourselves even as we work with the time was on revisiting cyber security legislation. >> the international herald tribune says you are trying to hire 600 hackers. is that true? >> hackers for good. not just hackers. our immediate needs are 600 more than we currently have. we are in that process now. immigration and all the attendant issues. as you know, one of the major changes we made during dhs 2.0 was to prioritize immigration enforcement and to focus on those who have violated criminal laws in addition to the immigration laws, who were

repeat violators, or whom we call right at the border before they got into the interior of the country. as we move to hike by artists, we started looking at things that are low priority -- as we moved to high priority, we started looking at things that are low priority. the stir in action on qualified young people who would -- deferring action on qualified young people. we call it be deferred action on childhood arrivals program. common toe things in the dream act. it does not provide a pathway to citizenship. we have had over 400,000 young people applied. apply. what is the number that have been granted? it is over 200,000 who have

actually been through the entire process and have been granted. ofare being supportive immigration reforms. we have been providing technical assistance to the gang of 8 in the senate. emphasizee to work to our mission with respect to border-border security. the third area that is a big change for us -- it is like turning a big ship -- it is moving into the travel and trade space where we do not treat every threats equally and we do not treat every passenger the same. based on what we know or do not know about travelers, we can identify who we can expedite through the line versus those we do not know much about that we need to be spending our time on.

have expanded global interest. if you do not have your global entry card, you really should get it. jfk and you see people going through the line, that is because they have their global entry card. then we have a domestic version called tsa pre-checked. our hope is that by the end of this year, one in four troublous will be in some kind of expedited travel program, -- one will be invelers, some kind of expedited travel program.

moving to risk-based is a major change in how we address these it is the right thing to do. finally, i cannot close my remarks without mentioning budget and sequestration. it is difficult to manage a large departments such as ours when you never know if you are going to have a budget, what is in it, and whether you are going to get more or less. we welcomed the action last week finally got a 2013 budget. congress finally put some money back in for customs and budget -- border protection. we are still in the process of packing what- un they did. you have to reach down and count

and see where the money is. i cannot tell you what impact that will have. we will work through those even as we acknowledge that sequestration does have real impact. those will evolve over time. we will work our way through it and we will work our way through fashionin a positive with the department continues to coalesce and we continue to work on things like agility and flexibility, and where we move to a smaller, more effective way to enact executors -- pursued the security of the united states. that is my report to the committee. [laughter] a softball opener, can you give us a sense of which of the many areas you have to worry about keep you up late at night?

>> it is interesting. there is so much that comes across our desks. if you boil down dhs into the five major interest areas, we have counterterrorism, border security, immigration enforcement, disaster preparation, response, recovery. you could stay up at night on any one of those five. what occasionally keeps me up at night is not what i know about. what i know about, we can do something about. it is what is out there that i do not know about, some operation i have not seen, some threats that has not become evident. some new mechanism or technique that is being used by cyber malefactors around the world. that being known unknown can cause a restless evening. >> last one from me and we will

move around the table. last week, one of your agents in border protection said there was no report to congress on coming of security.measure u explain why there has been no progress and why that is the case? >> the border condition index was a project we undertook because just measuring the apprehensions at the border was not a total measure of what life was like at the border. you needed to look at things like property values and crime rates and things of that sort 47 million people who live along the u.s.-mexico border. that is a very difficult thing to do.

any kind of sentence -- thing to do in any kind of statistically significant way. it is a combination of the manpower, the aerial coverage, and infrastructure. we now have aerial coverage over the entire southwest border. we did not have that before. they can tip things to our forces on the ground. the technology part is absolutely critical. we have stations more border patrol agents at the border than ever before. the numbers have been driven to 40-year lows. if you look at things like apprehensions, we know we are achieving success. a real measure is more qualitative. when you step back and think about the border, what you want spot illegaly to

traffic, particularly in a highly trafficked area. some parts of the border are not traffic at all -- and the ability to respond to what is seen. using that measure and the plans we half, we are confident the border is as secure as it has ever been. there is no one number that captures that. that is the problem. if you are looking for just one number, border security encompasses all lots of different things. when we look at managing the border, we are looking at the ability to detect illegal persons and contraband coming across the border and the ability to intercede. ted. --ll go to lee. lee, ted and david.

>> what suggestions were given to the gain of 8 on how to make the border more secure and what sorts of things could be -- gang of 8 on how to make the border more secure and what sorts of things have been suggested? >> without speaking specifically on what we have given the band i can tellg of 8, you what we have been giving to the congress in general. one is technology plans. one thing i did a year ago was that this notion of one wci net -- all of these towers that would go along the border and create a virtual since -- it did not work. parts of it are arid desert mountains.

parts of the are lush ride along the rio grande river. as a kind of terrain right -- right along the rio grande river. every kind of terrain you can imagine. what would be useful for the manpower we have in the sector? those plans have been given to the congress as they have been completed. what more can be done is to make sure those plans are filled out, in other words we make the acquisitions and deploy the technology. in terms of manpower, we are really there. what i try to communicate when i speak with members of congress is notder security different from looking at the overall immigration system. they go together. for example, we know the key driver -- a key driver of immigration is a demand for

labor. varifiera national e- verifier system so that employers can comply with immigration law that enables us to focus on employers that eve -- that are even dating immigration law. we need more ways to let people come legally -- evading immigration law. we need more ways to let people come legally to the borders. what if you cannot get the right kind of visa for 15 years. straightening out the visza system where -- visa system where illegal immigration is concerned. you have to look at the immigration system as a whole. [indiscernible]

i was surprised by congressional reaction. lawmakers are usually telling tsa that they are doing too much. a lot of people came out in opposition to this change. balancey, how do you tsa regardless of whether you are scaling back or ramping of security measures? radner. kind it isgilda it isis not one thing -- kind of like gilda radner. if it is not one thing, it is another. keepingalking about bombs from getting on planes. we are talking about a small knife. where we could have done better

was a little more legislative and public outreach before we announced the decision to give it a softer landing. i have told the director that if we are moving to risk based, that means risk based. sometimes people will be happy with those decisions. in the end, we think we have preserve security and facilitate its normal travel. sorry. like to of all, i would thank secretary napolitano for being here today. the release of the i.c.e. detainees a month ago have been in the news. there has been back and forth about whether these were criminals or non-criminals. what is preventing dhs from present and still takes six to show why people are being deported? -- from presenting statistics

about why people are deported? what is preventing dhs from releasing the actual offenses? >> i do not know if that has been prevented. this is a different population than prisoners. i.c.e. age stay in an facility is two weeks. it is a constantly moving body of people. we maintain beds in various detention facilities across the country. we have contracts with upwards of 50. we can compile those statistics. it is not like running a state prison system where there is a stable population. you know when they come in and you know when they go out. we know those things, but it does take a bit of work to get

all of the numbers in one place. understand you were not wild about the story that you were holding a couple hundred immigrants in facilities long enough to damage their mental health. >> i was not wild about the story. should beonfinement the exception not the rule. it should be as short a term as possible. it should be monitored carefully. to go backd i.c.e. and give me information on specific cases that were "facts"ed, whether the as reported were accurate looking at all our policies with respect to solitary. solitary is used for a variety

of reasons. one is for an inmate's own protection. one is for an inmate who is seriously disruptive to the population. those are two reasons. it is not something we should be doing on a routine basis. we need to look at our own policies to make sure we are as tight as we can be. >> david? >> [indiscernible] arehat something that you going to be able to put in place over the next intermediate term, a biometric plan that has been set out? how important is that system to you feeling like you can say to congress, the border is secure? how essential is that to delaminating some of those known -- to eliminating some of

those known unknowns? got the entry down. that is pretty solid. exit is more difficult. our airports and land ports were not designed to police exits. go to an average airport. you do not find people standing in an exit line checking your finger prints. just architecturally, the space for doing so that is difficult. what we have given to the congress is a two-phased approach. we now have robust data bases. it is one of the big areas of reform we have made since the on aware bomber. we can do enhanced by graphic exits based on what we get from the airports. we can cancel out that way. we have an arrangement with

canada. we will move to full implementation where we are going to give them our entry data from canada, which they will count as their exit and vice versa. we just exchange the data. as we deploy enhanced by biographical, we would like to be in a total biometric environment. that will take some time and real dollars. from a safety and security standpoint, what we are deploying really gets us 99% there. you said dhs is providing technical assistance to the immigration database to the senate. how involved are you with some of those discussions?

are you calling senators our meeting with them? you have relationships with two of the arizona senators. can you talk about what you are doing? >> i would prefer not to. they deserve the space to conduct their discussions. at some point, the process used will be filled out. i prefer not to speak to that right now. during the sequester, it was talked about customs entry and checkpoints. i realize furloughs have not taken place yet. there has been some anecdotal evidence. what have you seen so far? are there substantial delays for travelers? miami asf you look as an airport and the radio as land port, we- a

have some pretty long lines. part of that is trying to manage under the cr we are operating under and with the uncertainty that will be done with dhs once they look at our budget. now that we have a budget, we can go back and look. we will do everything we can to mitigate lines. one of the things i would like to do is make lines order. moving to risk-based, trusted traveler programs do have that affect. i only have so many court officers and port inspectors. i only have so many tsa screeners. there is no contemplated expansion. there will be lines. >> [indiscernible]

has really been an expert and knowledgeable about immigration, what has changed in what you are seeing on the hill in the discussions? separately, there will be conservatives when they see the bill who will worry about the cost of immigration reform. what can you say about why those concerns might be misplaced compared to the experience of 2006? scoring, one of the things we have looked at is how much of this can and should -- fee-based. if there is a program where the 11 million undocumented can come on of the shadows, that is a lot of people. e andwill need to pay a fe

pay a fine. they need to get right with the law. they did break the law. some of this will be fee-based. i think we can look to that, servicesre fee-based that the ports, particularly for karabell. cargo.icularly for as we look taxes in terms of advising the white house, there are ways to deal with that without getting a big number cbo would have to score. >> [indiscernible] four years ago when i started here, i said let's look at immigration reform. i did not get a positive response. there were dug to war is going

on. we were close to a depression. the bears there were two war is there were two was one on. we were close to a depression. i did not get a good response. demographicsnging in the united states and the voters in the united states. that aligns with a general recognition. whatever side you are on in the immigration debate, there is recognition that the system we have needs to be rebuilt it based on the current reality. i am optimistic. we will do everything we can to support bipartisan efforts in the congress to get this done. >> there are two terrorism suspects that have been picked up. >> can you hear in the back?

a little louder. two suspects been picked up in the last couple of weeks. one in italy and one that was a relative of osama bin laden. there was talk about trying these suspects in civilian courts. what is the potential for intelligence by not interrogating and trying in thecle 3 courts versus current circumstances in guantanamo bay in? in guantanamo bay? we have a variety of techniques, excellent ways to get whatever intelligence individuals have to share. we have tried a number of terrorism suspects in the article 3 courts, particularly in the southern district of new

york. a real expertise has been developed there. they have done more trials than at gitmo. view toe gotten what i be excellent results and an appreciation of the role article 3 courts play. highve a multi-agency value interrogation group that can speed in different types of questions that need to be asked. by way of example and not speaking to those two, from our standpoint, let's say you find been active in the bomb making field, particularly where aviation is concerned. we want to know what he learns, where he learned it, how he did it, how he would do it so that

we can identify how we would find it and translate that into something that a tsa screener or somebody screening at the last point of departure in the united states would be looking for. we are looking for something that can be translated into actual operational purposes. we organize ourselves in a way that that can be funneled into anyone conducting the examination. those tsan one of security lines from hell over the weekend. >> were you in miami? >> fort myers. becauseda is difficult it is spring break time. one of those post-9/11, a 9/11, are there any

thoughts after dhs was created of scaling some of what feels soe excess of measures backe that we are not always in the osama bin laden mode when we are traveling domestically. under 12 can keep their shoes on. let me tell you the reality. the aviation threat has not gone away. when i testified, people said, what are the threats you are confronting? i always had in the phi two, aviation and cyber. two,always identify aviation and cyber. technology has not caught up with where we are. we are working with our international partners.

edgee looking at cutting technology to ease the process. a non-metallic substance that can be used as an explosive above -- aboard the plane while moving to million passengers a day is a difficult logistical task. million pass does a day is a difficult logistical task. passengers a day is a difficult task. our best bet is to encourage more travelers to get into these expedited programs so that we can move them into different lines. >> what are the ways for those? months.hecks take six

reducedhas now been substantially. once you have that global entry, you can get into pre- checked. -- of ourtims of law own success. we are staffing in doing that work so that we can keep those aits as short as possible. >> you are one of the few democrats to win 3 elections in a row in the past 40 years in arizona. to what degree do you see the that arizona will become a blue state as john mccain has predicted? senator mccain has called it

right. the demographics of arizona are changing. he sees it happening every day because he is back and forth all the time. that has some influence on those who had previously been suspect of getting into the immigration debate. i will tell you what happened in my opinion, which is to say that ,n early part of the 2000's between closing of san diego and llosing off el pascrell -- eo so much of the apprehensions were occurring in the tucson sector. people were under the impression that it was not under any sort of control. it caused some real political push back.

people were legitimately concerned about what was born on. i was concerned. i was firing off letters to be .resident and to our delegation when i came in, i said, we are going to focus on this and shut that down. from its peak until now, we have had 75% to a 90% reduction of apprehensions along that arizona-mexico border. point, public procession begins to change back. more and more people are saying, there is security down there. you'll lot is being appreciated. of law is- the rule being appreciated. when you live in a border state, you need an immigration system really works. families are going on both sides of the borders.

people are going back and forth. that is the kind of system you want to have when you have a good sense of who is leaving, who is coming, where they are going, how long they are anticipated to stay. >> people talk about arizona become a blue states. it was not competitive last year. it was not competitive five years earlier when senator mccain was on the ticket. what is the timetable for it to become a competitive swing state? >> i do not know. it will happen, i think. win threehat i could straight elections there is indicative that democrats can and do win in arizona. anomaly because senator mccain is a favorite son. he is running.

in the was not involved presidential campaign, my current position keeps me out of electoral politics. my understanding is that the obama campaign did not play in arizona. they were working nevada, colorado, new mexico, those three states that have removed. arizona will be behind them. it will be more purple over time. >> since we are on the electoral topic, a colleague of ours that the post said you have made it known they you were considering a presidential race. do you want to comment on that? they say you are doing it quietly, so this will be a good format. [laughter] >> my plate is so full now that that kind of concentration would be the kind of thing that would keep it -- keep me up at night. i lose enough sleep as it is.

i am fine with will we are at. mccain,ing of senator yesterday at a town hall meeting, he was asked if he would ever move away from using the term illegal immigrant. he said that phrase was appropriate. is it appropriate to use that term should we say undocumented? i do not get caught up in the vocabulary wars. there are immigrants who are here without documents. the key thing to focus on is how we liked the system so that we do not have this perennial large group that have a de facto amnesty because they are here, they are not leaving and there is no way for them to get right with the law. pay a fine, learn english, make

sure they are paying their taxes, etc. from every kind of law enforcement, security perspective, it is better to bring them out of the shadows than to consistently bring them into the shadows -- then leave them in the shadows. >> we have about 15 minutes left. brian? >> some of the senator is working on immigration reform talk about using a border security trigger and having that before pathway to citizenship -- pathways to citizenship can be opened. he talked about metrics for evaluating overall border security. how possible do you think in measure like that could be as part of an immigration reform package? people really look at the whole system and how it

as a, relying on one thing so-called trigger is not the way to go. there needs to be certainty in the bill so that people know when they can legalize and when earned citizenship can open up. there is also talk about getting to the back of the line. that is easier said than done, calculating when the line is and when it moves. the key thing is to have border security in the bill, to open up legal migration with and it is, to deal with employers, and to have certainty on how the 11 million who are here who are documented,gal or un depending on what your vocabulary is, to come out of the shadows. >> [indiscernible]

ofthey have a bunch different skill sets. we do not need ph geese in 's inters -- ph.d. computers. we asked this could to look at what we need. degree would be healthy to have in our cyber cadre. we look at different kind of a bachelor's degrees. we will be getting a whole host of internships and fellowships for young people to compete for and to try to introduce them to public service and do the kind of interesting work they can do at dhs. this year, we started a secretarial honors program. we announced it at the end of the season because it is new and

we did not hit the peak. we had over 3000 kids compete. we know there is a market. we think young people are interested in the concept of public service. they may not necessarily see that as government service. forhave to make that leap them or help them make that leap. some computer and cyber we are are saying building of the threat too much the everybody talking about threats and is going to far and it will not do any good. hackers,are individual hacktivists. there are groups that conduct actions on the web, on the nect.

there are some that can be state-sponsored. be in a position where not everything -- everything is dealt with at the same level. now is getting more caffeine right now. [laughter] my real focus is on the intersection with the private sector. they control most of our nation's critical infrastructure. a radio poll ted approach. we are potentially concerned about some sectors where there has been a lot of activity, financial and energy. for the next nine months to a

year, that private sector fbiection -- the nsa anfd have adopted a saying, called to call to all.e, issue with the private sector is going to be key to our ability to do things. not everything is a pearl harbor. we have to scale. >> [indiscernible] program hasy worker been a touchy area. how do you create a program that balances the security needs and

the needs of businesses and the concerns of people same immigrants are coming to the united states to take american jobs? >> not speaking to what is going on in the gang of 8, you have got to get that balance between opening up and filling labor markets that the labor versus depressing wages. there are a lot of ways you can do that. the department of labor has a huge role to play. they get the stat. they look at what the prevailing wage rates are. the u.s. chamber has had a whole string of discussions this winter. in there there is an agreement to be reached. >> [indiscernible] whether not it can be taken on.

of operational activity? can you talk about the volumes of fluids that propose real risks of people on planes? threat this really holds for people? >> depending on what the fluid we the bottle amount that require is calculated so bad if , it couldto be used not blow a hole in the plan. we already checked the checked baggage. the way to deal with it right of is to keep large amounts both planes. evolution of technology is the explosive

train technology equipment. it has gotten better and better. are very useful. one member of congress was to issue canines in all of the lanes. the answer is there are not enough canines in the world to do this. i learned a lot of interesting things on his job. i can talk on almost any topic because at some point it has crossed my desk. only work so long. you have to have k nine ships -- canine shifts. indeed there had list with them and you need to be continually refreshing your canines. you cannot rely on them as your only tool in the tool kit. but i really liked them.

[laughter] why you think diminish nation is not given more credit for security border? -- why do you think the administration is not given more credit for securing the border? >> i do not know. you can go to any city in the united states and do the same thing. we are not talking about an environment where you are at zero. we are not saying there is no contraband that comes into the country across the borders. what we are saying is that the border is more secure now that it has ever been. it is a continuing commitment and process. the best way to get the maximum amount of border security efforts in addition to the technology plans is to deal with the other parts of the immigration system that directly impact how much traffic we are

dealing with at the border. >> anybody who has not had one? [indiscernible] is that a concern in your area? i am hopeful for his administration. i am getting to know my counterparts. we will be meeting soon. ofhave already had a number other meetings. our staffs are communicating daily. if the president of mexico realize it's a safe and secure border is not just a law enforcement -- realizes a safe and secure border is not just a matter of law enforcement. you have to have control over

the security situation. he gets it from a law enforcement and an economic perspective. i am optimistic about the work we will continue. there are some new projects that we will get underway. identify whated is missing and what are the gaps. hate to identify our gaps in public. reachioned the out of with critical infrastructure. there is so much going on that being able to increase our response and response teams, we want to continue to enlarge the 24-7 what floor that we have. those are in the areas where i anticipate growth.

>> what are the operation of gaps when you look at cyber? sharing inrmation real time is absolutely key. we need to have an environment in which the private sector is confident that when they transmit real-time information, we can deal with it in real time and they will not suffer business competition or other consequences as a result. working through these private- sector issues is going to be a real challenge for us. >> let me close with a quick questions. do we know why the beast did not start in jerusalem? >> it is a car. i do not know.

service -- that is one of the reasons there is planned redundancy in the secret service operations. rather than hold up the entire presidential motorcade, you have a substitute ready to go. >> you do not use e-mail. howard dean keep on top of a huge information flow -- how do you keep on top of a huge information flow without using e-mail? a variety of ways. i am constantly getting reports and e-mails throughout the day that come in through my headquarters staff and get to me. i do a lot of my own work by phone. i have not found it to be a

problem. -- when i seek information, it gets to me. it is not superfluous. it is the stuff in this job that has 100,000 different things that happen on any given day. it allows me to focus where i need to focus. >> [indiscernible] >> in many respects, it is inefficient. >> did you ever use e-mail? when iopped using e-mail was attorney general of arizona. you get hundreds of things at a time. i thought, why am i spending my time responding to stuff that does not need to be responded to. i do not like the process where people can send you an e-mail where people say, you were told and you know this and it comes

back and people say, you got this e-mail. i want to be a little more selective. if people want to give me information, there are many ways to do so. is a you think this lifetime system? >> i do not know. do you like getting e-mail? >> yes. >> i may use it at some point. noht now, i have contemplation of doing so. twi not text and i do not tter. craig fugate does. is useful.ers, it i stream videos. from ouranswers employees. there are a lot of ways you can live life without e-mail. everybody makes choices.

>> thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thank you all. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] to end, a campaign partisanship followed by the clinton foundation on global health. later, former president bill clinton. >> this week on "newsmakers," our guest is the afl-cio president. he will talk about minimum-wage proposal from president obama and democrats in congress. commerce --ber of chamber of commerce. why at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. >> inspection, not war.

-- we secretary, we wore are going to put them down as one -- undecided. >> as i listen to those comments, it struck me what a wonderful thing three speeches. >> that was the hearing where was making the justification for attacking iran. you did not hear the chants -- the questions we wanted to ask him, such as how many u.s. soldiers will be killed in this war? how many iraqi civilians will die? i would like those questions answered not by somebody like donald rumsfeld.