director of the gun owners of america. followed by exit interviews with outgoing interior secretary ken salazar and transportation secretary ray lahood. >> this week on "newsmakers" we want to welcome to larry pratt. thank you. we have to reporters with us to help with questions, david sherfinski and ginger ibson. let me have you tell us the difference between your group and the national rifle association. > the easiest way would be two points are how we were organized. after the war between the states, they organized the nra. a hundred years later when you organized not to help the government but to oppose the government because of the

growing flood of legislation we were facing. that shapes our attitudes from the very beginning. >> how would you say you are different? > we have maintained a position opposed to the background checks from the get go. the nra now agrees with us on that. we are very happy that is the case. it makes it much more likely that we will prevail in stopping the background check from getting put on the books. >> how would you say your group works with the nra? >> we pretty much set our own forces. it is nice to know that we're very much on the same page. >> they sent a letter to senate members last week saying improvements in the national instant check system.

did they offer your group a chance to sign on? >> they knew we were opposed to the system altogether. last week we got a copy of the letter which goes out to nybody he was using internet access to do a background check. he has told to do as they wish. that is the violation of two different federal laws. this is proof positive that hat we said at the beginning is that you cannot trust the government. they will use this information in ways they are not supposed to be using it.

>> you recorded an opposition to increase penalties that there would not be purchasing if there were no limits on who could carry a gun. you have said you are opposed to expanding the background checks. do you think there should be any limits on who should on the guns, felons, criminally insane at? >> the ones who should be in jail. let some out on the street. that is what happens. criminals have always broken the law. if we think someone is dangerous and we have proven it. >> if you were on the side of states having the right to determine whether legal immigrants could contain permits.

the general counsel told us hat the group supports equal concealed rights. do you feel that anyone should be -- illegal immigrants should be allowed to carry? >> anybody here in this country legally, as citizens or visitor should be able to protect hemselves. >> is anything you support that you think is necessary? >> we would like to see the laws repealed. this has put a measure in that would do away with the ban on legally carried guns in schools. if a teacher, principal had a permit they should be able see have a gun. if a dirt bag comes in, they will not likely have to wait 20 minutes. that is a little longer than average.

it was not off the charts. the special giving the area newtown was. the first responder has to be armed. t to be someone at the school. >> where would teachers keep the guns? >> concealed on their persons. they will have ready access to t. and not being an army officer with a bad, they are not going to be the target that somebody would be that is standing there openly carrying with a uniform. then we take back very quickly the element of surprise. >> there have been news reports that your group is behind this threat of a filibuster when the

senate democrats bring legislation because of your group. they are not going to allow this to come to the floor. is that true? >> that is overstating our tremendous power on capitol ill. we're very happy to support senator paul and his colleagues in this effort. it is a growing number that are now publicly saying me too." that is encouraging and makes us cautiously optimistic. >> do you know the number is now? >> there have been 13 that have publicly joined together. >> the people in oklahoma followed tom coburn around and put the pressure to join in on

this filibuster. why not let it come to a vote? >> when you are in a snake pit you kill a snake and a chance you get. the filibuster is a readily available tool used by democrats and republicans alike. this time it may be to our liking. >> are you concerned that it will not pass if it comes to the floor? >> there is always that chance. when you're dealing with legislation needed the best shot as soon as you can. you do not want to play from behind catching up. i am not sure what would happen in the house.

speaker john boehner does not have much of a backbone. it might very well preside over disaster. we're not interested in a vote. there will be a vote. everybody will know what is going on. >> tom coburn and democratic senators have said that universal background checks, he bill will not get through the senate. politically speaking, would it be beneficial for your group to have potentially vulnerable democrats on the record? >> i certainly have no objection to having people on record with a vote. if we can do it on a procedural vote, we can explain that to voters. >> do you think there should be up or down votes on assault weapons? >> it does not look like they are something that even the democrats want to bring up. harry reid -- >> he guaranteed a vote. >> bless his heart.

i do not know if there will be a procedural matter. if it is a motion to proceed, which is what is called, that may be the vote. >> you spoke of your influence. talk what will likely be voted on the store. how much influence you can you have in washington compared to the nra? do you think you're gaining ground as more influential? >> i do not have a way to measure that. we're happy to work with the senators that are taking the lead on this. we're very pleased that these were people that we had backed heavily. we've made the right decision during the campaign. many oppose candidates who were from the republican establishment. we are looking for people that are not afraid to go and challenge the

establishment. this filibuster probably is doing that in the senate. the same kind of thing seems to be happening. we are getting what we hoped. we are delighted that we identify them in time to help them and their campaigns. these are people that are operation on their convictions. >> these are? >> senator cruz was one. in the preceding election we went in and help senator paul challenged the establishment in entucky. >> polls show 85% and 90% of american voters support universal background checks. where is the political fall back for someone backing omething at 90% to not agree

with? >> those should not beget any credence. they have showed that the owners in particular or 80% in favor of making background checks universal. when we polled our own members and gazillions responded, %. >> how many members do you ave? >> 300,000. why should we believe the poll having identified the opinion of other people? >> the mayor against illegal guns is running ads in several states that depict go owners advocating for background checks.

do you represent those gun owners? >> mayor bloomberg is trying his best he can. it is probably an actor and not a typical gun owner. hollywood loves their guns. hollywood is that going to give up their guns. there is preaching that we should give up our guns. >> can you talk about the u.n. arms straight treaty and why there is such vociferous opposition? >> the un treaty is almost never likely to get a 2/3 vote

of the senate. >> why do you say that? >> the u.n. treaty would require gun licensing to comply with terms of the treaty. we have a government that ran fast and furious. 400 mexicans were murdered by criminals that our government gave guns. this judgment over whether i could have a gun without their provision, this government has bank implicit in murder nothing has been done about this. he attorney general was caught lying under oath. he has been turned over to federal court of prosecution for the house. nothing. >> can i go back to what you said about speaker john boehner saying he had no backbone?

>> he had tremendous leverage s the fellow with the purse to say we will knock this out. we're going to get rid of obamacare. that is the way you can get rid of it, put it on as an amendment to one of the must pass spending measures and is one. >> do you trust the speaker on gun-control legislation? >> that did not inspire a lot of confidence. it is not instill confidence when he says he's waiting for the senate before he has his own agenda. that seems odd to me. it seems republicans ought to be pushing. they have their own majority. the house won by a greater

margin. not to be driving forward on an genda, what kind of leadership is that? > what would you like him to stay? > will put an end to obamacare. by the way, the government will not shut down. that is such a misnomer. the government will slow down to about 57% of its current size. it is certainly not going to lock up and go away. >> what do you wanted to say on gun legislation? >> he can put a repeal of obamacare on as a condition of continuing the spending here in washington. he could secure the problem

just like that. >> how is obamacare an invasion of privacy? >> it opens up all medical records to prowling around by drones here in washington. when they see something like ptsd, they use that like ending the cannot have a gun. no evidence that the person actually is a threat. they just use these diagnoses as a wholesale disarmament of a whole group of people. 150,000 veterans have been disarmed things to this approach. >> you see medical records as another data registry? >> another way of adding to the list of people that supposedly hould not have guns. that is why we oppose obamacare from the beginning.

when you invade the privacy of all americans, there is a subset of gun owners that will have their privacy invaded, too. >> the main argument is background checks. it would create a registry and the registry with then be used to confiscate guns. did you think the government tried to take guns away? >> the government has done it. they did it after katrina. they found that you had bought guns. the stores maintained records. they confiscated the guns. not confidence inspiring. and fast and furious, they upplied fire arms to the mexican cartel. we know it was for the purpose f trying to advance the agenda of the control on behalf of the administration.

you are willing to get people killed in order to advance a political agenda? >> you suggested last july the government might have been involved in or set of the aurora shootings. do you feel this way? >> that is not our thinking at all. they took advantage of it. people like the president have an agenda for gun control and they tried to use it. we should put it back in their face. there were seven theatres there in the proximity of the dirtbag that did the killing. he could have gone to any one of them with equal ease and access. he chose one. the only one that said "no guns." >> is that type of person someone you would describe as being capable of making rational decisions? >> that was very rational. he had done his planning.

e went carried out his horrible deeds. just because he is evil does not mean he is not capable of linear logic. >> the race to $200,000 less sure that was spent in the election by direct contributions. the structure is such that the sec does not disclose your money. where do get the bulk of your money? >> we are grass roots. the large donors. otherwise we would not exist if it were not for people making $15 contributions. they will pick up the phones, send a postcard to their members of congress. that is at the front line of ur activity.

>> the nra gets a good deal of their funding from the roundup program. do you think that should be allowed to continue that do you think the nra should countries in that way? >> i think it is a great idea. i would like for gun stores to o the same thing for us. >> the other criticism comes from manufacturers. do you take money from the industry? >> we get a very small amount from the industry. we would love to have more. >> i want to talk about your ating system for house members and senators. it is different from the nra.

someone like harry reid, in 1993 he voted against the ban on so-called assault weapons. 005 he voted for legislation that would shield the gun manufacturers from liability. he has been described as a strong proponent of the second amendment but he got an f minus from your group. can you explain? > we are looking at other ways the second amendment can be infringed. we spoke about obamacare. the number of votes that occurs, we added those end. we added one that was abetted in obamacare. the same thing with political

speech. when congress says she cannot communicate beyond a certain amount of money the first amendment stars out saying congress shall make no law. they have made plenty of laws. they are unconstitutional. we are being gagged by the very people we should be able to expose easily as much money as we can raise. >> we have time for a couple more questions. if legislation does not make it to the floor of the senate on the federal level, some states are moving ahead with stricter gun control laws. colorado, connecticut. what is your group on the state level? >> we do not have the resources to do very much on the state level. we are happy to note that many states, well over a dozen, have bills before them to notify federal confiscation of a fire arms. it would be unconstitutional. they are considering putting penalties on the federal agents

who tried to contravene their state law. even beyond that, we have sheriffs who have been making similar statements that it will not happen in their county and a federal agent tries to do that, and they will address hem. >> more states are expanding gun rights. do you see this going to the courts? >> it will go to the courts. who knows how the court will ule. here is a misconception that the court somehow is the arbiter of what is constitutional.

that is not true. every official that raises their right hand and says they will adhere to the constitution, that is something they are obligated to do. it is the voters were going to decide if the sheriff did the right thing by arresting the federal agent. the sheriff gets reelected it does not matter what the court says. >> do you think sheriffs should step outside the current rental laws of how they feel it is unconstitutional? >> the current lot is the constitution. that is what he is trying to protect. e is not stepping outside of the limits are placed on them. he is interposing himself between the legitimate authority at the federal level and the authority vested in him y the voters of this ounty. >> do you think the sheriffs office >> we would immediately fly out and have a banquet in his

honor. >> chuck schumer makes the argument that the first amendment is an absolute. you cannot shout fire in a crowded theater. >> schumer is confused, which is not uncommon. senator charles schumer is saying the first amendment site ousetops a criminal act. nobody is free to create a criminal act with a gun. we do not have prior restraint on someone going into a theater. by the same token we should not be putting prior restraint on people obtaining firearms. > larry pratt, we will have to leave it there. thank you. >> we're back with a ginger gibson and david sherfinski. what happens when the senate eturns this tuesday on gun

legislation? >> harry reid has made clear he wants to move this bill to the floor. we have the threat we heard larry talk about. there is a procedural way where carry a rebate be able to move forward. t requires allowing a number of amendments to the bill. we would see things like us all bands and magazine clips. there would be efforts to undo the bill. to eliminate or strip it. >> what about background checks and making gun trafficking a federal crime? that is the underlying bill. does it pass? >> it seems background checks has the likely had to pass. it is seen as very popular. there are a number of voters to have come out. >> david sherfinski, we have heard the national rifle association are winning in this

debate. how is the other side doing, mayor bloomberg, the other grew somewhat more gun-control? >> if you look at states like new york, maryland, connecticut, that are passing the strictest gun laws, if they're having a great influence. there are a lot of states out in the mountain west region. some of them are working to weaken gun laws. mayor bloomberg's ad campaign s having an impact on what the ltimate outcome will be. it is unsure. even mark prior put out a statement saying i am going to

listen to people of arkansas on does not the mayor of new york. he is one of those red state democrats who harry reid would definitely like to have on his side. >> what about the action in the house? larry pratt does not think the speaker of the republican party has the backbone. >> a lot of conservative groups do not trust john boehner. it has yet to be seen. he has not given anything that would sound like an endorsement to vote on the bill. it is another element of egotiations in washington. you're going to see a lot of negotiations going on for the next several months. democrats are trying to get it

through the house. >> i think a lot of republicans and some democrats and the house might be perfectly fine with letting things peter out. like we saw with mr. pratt, he said that is not enough. you have to come out and say that you're not going to go along with this. anything short of that is unacceptable. >> do we know what great the speaker gets from gun owners? >> i would imagine not a lot. >> you heard larry pratt talk about this whole idea of state saying you could arrest a federal agent. >> that makes some people very nervous. there is a balance that exists between the federal law enforcement and law-enforcement. we have seen this play out in arizona. it is interesting to hear him say that. >> their group is known for helping with the attorney fees and that sort of thing when there is prosecution. >> we saw the same thing with