wire division and a wireless division. it issues an annual report required by congress on the state of wireless and the hidden assumption behind that congressional direction is that the wireless market is somehow separate. in fact, in a world of broadband, these two are increasingly converging. >> one thing that stands in the , they are beholden to a special tax by which it has to maintain two separate networks, a copper network for who insist onts opponent having a land line telephone. it's not a trivial diversion. if they were freed from those obligations, they would have billions of dollars to go back and invest and expand in the broadband networks. >> find a road map for

developing a broad band in the u.s., tonight on "the communicators at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. >> this week, tom korologos, former u.s. ambassador to belgium and former deputy assistant to presidents nixon and ford discusses his role in assisting nominees for approval by the u.s. senate. >> tom korologos, former ambassador to belgium, what is the first thing you tell someone who needs to be confirmed by the senate that they are going to face as they go to the nomination process? >> the first thing i say to them is what is in your background that you have done that you don't want anybody to know but you better count on it coming out in the hearing? i'mgive me an answer --

not telling you to tell me the answer, but you need to get an answer. i said that the one guy and he said how do they know that? " how often does it happen that someone says they have a problem? >> quite a bit. but problems are relative. the reason you asked the question is i say to him, if you tell me what it is, i might be able to help you. if you don't tell me, your on your own. that scared the devil out of them and they come forward with financial disclosure things or some college spring or i smoked pot and did not put it on the report -- college thing. things that could kill your nomination. >> the toughest situation ever? >> bob bork. we lost, unfortunately. we did not see the opposition coming. we knew that it would be fierce

and minutes after the nomination was made, senator kennedy was on the floor talking about returning to segregated lunch counters and back from abortions. i ran into the senator in the hallway after and i said i'm putting you down as undecided, i've not given up. that was really not a brutal one that was a big injustice of what happened to that man. >> from 1989, a clip of a conservative who helped start the heritage foundation. he is testifying against senator [indiscernible] [indiscernible] for secretary of defense. [video clip] >> over the course of many years, i have encountered the lack ofin a condition sobriety as well as with women to whom he was not married.

both of the senators' wives because i work here in the senate for 11 years. frequentlyed it enough to the point where it made an impression. i don't go looking for this sort of thing. i did not make any records of the times and places, but i did encounter this on a number of occasions. >> what went on? >> that was a sad state of affairs. what happened was through the years as chairman of the armed services committee, he had alienated a lot of people. his personality was a little abrupt and short. and he had a trick-or-treat up and we all know that he divorced and remarried. -- we all know that he had a drink or two. that was over the top post for that to be done to him and that

cost us. the opposition grew from the armed services committee that was supposed to confirm him. that theye same guy clawbac had been digging into. it was a rare thing for the senate to turn down one of its own during that was very unusual. i not sure it has happened before or since. the senators turned down chuck hagel, but not as fierce as that nomination. i guess history being what it is, you look back on it and in the end, don't forget how he said i hereby say i will never have another drink, that was a cool thing to force the guy to say in order to get confirmed. i am sorry that happened. to tell his side of the story. he felt so strongly that he had to let it all hang out.

wents deceased and john down in an airplane. was an ideologue and was one of the founders of heritage in the beginning. he was a true believer. no nuance was good enough for him. some people are around today who of taken on the same mantra. that that time he went over the tops. he should not have done it. correct your parents came from greece and moved to utah. you are eastern orthodox religion, but you live in a state that is 62% mormon today. what was that like? >> it was interesting. there was a big greek community in salt lake city that came to work on the railroads and in the minds. -- mines.

my father opened a bar. i'm not sure this is on the record, but i was arrested when i was 11 years old for being a minor at a bar. they hauled off to the police station. i'm not sure if the statute of limitations has run out, but my dad came up with five cases of beer and i went home. the next day i was working back at the bar. all the greek community did. we live in a certain region of the city. there was some discrimination. , aeard a lot of dirty greek lot of fighting appeared most of the times we got along very well with the mormons because we were so opposite. they had no problem with the greeks. was withg problem those people on the fringes. >> she went to the university of utah and then got a journalism degree from columbia. where did you get interested in your life in journalism? >> i had a job at a grocery

store. they sold the grocery store and i went to the salt lake tribune and apply it to be in the back room in the printing shop. there were no openings. the union had said it was all filled. so i went upstairs to the newsroom and i said cannot be a coffee boy? was. no idea what that a hired me. someone had just left and they hired me on the spot. sit at the desk and write headlines. -- a copy boy. people said, this guy is interesting. then they may be a sports writer. >> were your parents political? rooseveltnts wwere democrats, because franklin roosevelt, harry truman had saved greece.

happened, ithing had a job at an ad agency part- time. there were handling center wallace bennett's campaign for senate in 1962. >> the father of senator bob bennett. >> they said that his press secretary was leaving. i applied for that job. they hired me as press secretary to senator bennett. i came to washington 50 years ago. >> why did you stay with this business? andhe freedom of expression the life of a journalist. the saltki writer for lake tribune. a sports writer, which moves easily into the political arena, where you have sides taken on issues. we had it out with the senator and i enjoyed it.

we had a pretty good relationship. >> how long did you work for the senator? >> nine years on the hill. >> why did you leave? we want youse said to be a senate liaison. in 1971 and became a senator liaison to cover handling senate relationships. host: what do you remember about president nixon the most? guest: the day he left. he said goodbye to all bus and, the next step, jerry ford is sworn in and i should say quickly there were a lot of other things that was the saddest. we invited the leadership to

meet the new president. they were hanging out there and i was talking to president ford and his back was turned and i filibustered a little bit so that the leadership could see me talking to the new president. president ford said, "everybody around me is a house person. you are only the senate guy in this building. don't let anybody talk you into leaving." i thought i was the first person jerry ford hired as president. now president ford had hired me and i am happy as can be. they brought the leaders in and shook hands and then i went to the white house mess launch an all the nixon people were down there with their faces down and i looked up and i said you nixon guys are in a heap of trouble and nobody laughed. host: what did you think of richard nixon during that time

and did you ever change your mind about him in the middle of the revelations? nixon and i thought mitchell were too smart to let that happen as much as it did and i had faith that would that happen that way until finally we were doing impeachment counts. we have 37 votes until the friday when the smoking gun tape came out and we dropped down to about six and we had to go in and tell the president that his political base was gone which is when they got goldwater and rhodes down to tell him his political base had eroded and he said i guess we better call it quits. his family kept saying to him don't quit. he would get up in the morning and say this may be the day and finally, it caught up with him and he had to say that was enough. host: thinking back to the time

when you were the liaison in the senate for richard nixon, who was the center that got mad about this first that said this is not going well? upst: i guess i picked everywhere. when people like senator long came up to me and said," even the rats have to leave the sinking ship after a while." when they started losing senator tallmadge -- we had some faithful that did not go. about six votes there at the end. we had 37 -- we would have beaten impeachment had come to that. guest: they needed to slash three? host: we needed a 33 +1 and we could have beaten it. there were a lot of senators that but nervous over it.

, senator scott --t: we are getting close to saying enough is enough. host: how long did you work for jerry ford? guest: i stayed 1.5 years. and i opened a lobbying company. host: you were co-founder of that. why did you call it timmins and company? we guest: were trying to find a name. we were pioneers in lobbying, we would like to think. there were tax environment and trade lawyers. we want to be lobbyists, unlimited. i did not pretend to be an aeronautical engineer for our plan companies or pretend to the pharmacist for the drug companies so we ended up coming up with the name"federal

services." one of our partners went to register in the district and came to found out that there already was a firm called that that sells toilet paper. to the federal government. we had to change the name before midnight to get in there so we said timmins aned co. host: how long did you do that? guest: was there 27 years in various forms and we left out of got an honorary degree. i said i will serve this country where ever called. the phone rang and he said to pack your bags, you are going to iraq. i left in 2003 and left for iraq. host: go back to the time you were a lobbyist. how often and, did you help

shepherd through nominations in the senate? guest: probably from the first day. withgan when i was working senator bennett. nixon became president and 72 and he sent up two mormons. there was kennedy for treasury and another one for hud and senator bennett knew them both so i was the administrative assistant in those days. i helped them with the confirmation, going through paperwork and some confirmations which, in those days, was a piece of cake compared to today. host: do you mean? guest: it was perfunctory and the president got who he wanted. you had a federal hearing and had to enter questions but it was not three or four weeks of bedding and cogitating.

they were much more civil in those days. host: william rehnquisthost: do? went through the confirmation twice. he was going for chief justice. let's watch a clip that you can tell us about it. [video clip] >> did you personally confront voters at the precinct? >> in the sense of harassing? >> no, in the sense of questioning them about their right to vote and the constitution and asking them to read something or asking them questions having to do with their voter eligibility? bethune is cover center for all those years? i don't believe i did. >> you categorically say you didn't? i if it covers 1953-1969 cannot say ^ -- categorically any thing. >> did you think you personally confronted voters?

>>no. >> do you mean when you qualify your answer? >> it is to the best of my recollection. through the confirmation twice. host: were you in that room? guest: i was in that room. they called me from the white house and chief justice asked me to help. i went to see him at the court and he asked why we needed a hearing. he was being re-nominated. out thereerything is for everyone to see. he said i am not going to telegraph how will vote on pending cases so we don't need a hearing. i looked him and i thought he was kidding but then he was serious. i had to calm him down and told him he needed a hearing. there has only been one hearing

of a justice going to the chief justice and that was fortis. he told me that he is not coming but then we went to the hearing and we convinced him he should go. this piece on the voter harassment was something that senator metzenbaum picked up on. in his youth, he was a republican poll officer. watchers they're making sure i was a republican and they want to see your driver's license. senator metzenbaum wants a little overboard on that. rehnquist's covenant in his house which is not something normally read. it is 10 pages long and he found there was a phrase that said '

this house shall not be resold to anyone of the hebrew faith." there is no hebrew fate. it implies the semitism. they asked what he had to say about that. he had to say i have never read the covenant. somebody smart dug up metzenbaum's the mentor and that phrase had been there since the 1920's and 1930's and had been struck down by the court and had no validity and that ended that argument. my point is that they were going after rehnquist no matter what. he asked how many votes to be against me this time and i said probably 38. he said that many? i said yes, but we will be all right so come down. 36t: the first time he got votes and 23 against.

what was he like up close and how did you learn to tell people to pipe down? guest: it was difficult. the first thing that happens when you get a supreme court or nominee.- you have to bring him back to earth for that hearing. rehnquist was a casual guy who sat back in his hair and shuffled a little bit. he was just a normal, brilliant, a lawyer. he read cases. he was at justice and he read the cases. when the selection process was being made when he was an associate attorney general over there -- you had to get them in disciplined, be

deferential to the senators. i may have said to some of them that you have to grovel before your true masters. grabin awhile, i had to them by the lapels and say shut up and listen. host: did anybody kick back to you on that? guest: a couple of them did. one guy did that too was a for a state department job. i told him to answer the question or i will personally be you. he said, i'm sorry. his wife can up and said he needed that. there are little things that you do. things, iconfirmation did not do them alone. there was a lot of help.

it is all pro bono. host: it would have been to your advantage to do that because you can get your foot in the door. guest: who is going to belong to the supreme court? host: here as another supreme court incident -- [video clip] where concern i have is is the predictability and judge bork? what are the assurances that this committee and the senate has as to where you will be given the background and history? i don't know that you can really answer that i would be pleased to hear your comments. >> as a teenager and into byerly 20's, i was a socialist hardly seems to me to indicate fundamental instability.

as winston churchill said, "any man who was not socialist before he is 40 has no heart, and a man who is a socialist after he has 40 has no head. ." i think that kind of evolution is very common in people. host: that was 1987. what happened to him? guest: those two characters use a dog -- one was the einstein of the law, bork, and arlen specter was the einstein of the senate. arlen specter was one of the toughest, hardest senators to lobby on anything let alone supreme court nominees. was smarter than rehnquist in many ways, a brilliant judge. he taught antitrust law. he wrote the book of that hill. here are these two guys meeting and they were passing like two trains. they never came together on anything.

host: how did arlen specter of vote. guest: he voted no. was 52-48, as i recall. this kind ofaring, exchange -- this one happened on a saturday. i told bork stop arguing with spwecter. he said he disagreed with them. i told them that the thing to say is that is an interesting point and i would like to consider that it is fascinating and interesting and you will consider it. he remembered this. he went back out and arlen specter started down that road and bork followed my advice. but - we started down that road again.

they were arguing about original intent. guest: was there a time when the senators would not meet with them. down they would never turn a supreme court nominee. take around the assistant secretary of state or other directors, they say they are fine. you have made the request of the committee. then you take the member in and the nominee should not go alone and you tell him to be careful of the questions the senator will ask because that will telegraph what he will ask you. host: how often were you in the room with them? guest: very often.

host: was there ever a confrontation behind closed doors? in to: when i talk bork see senator wyche weichert. he was the former governor of connecticut and now senator on the committee. it was raining outside. you talk about the rain and how cold it was when you get there. at that up and i thought bork would cite a statute on a weather forecasting. go well and i could sense he was nervous. he did not schmooze. that's the only thing i can tell you. say that aou ever

senator would oppose someone even though they like to them? guest: happened quite a bit. sometimes they would say to me on this side that i cannot vote for him but if you need me, call me. if there was a close vote. took one year and rehnquist took 90 days. there is a special prosecutor. who said they could not vote for him. some senators will tell you up front that they cannot vote for him. i think that's happened with senator hagel during his confirmation. host: were you in that hearing? gue watch ted kennedy this time questioning justice scalia. [video clip] >> justice scalia, if you are

confirmed, do you expect to overall -- to overrule roe vs. wade? i don't think it would be proper to answer that question. >> i agree, it is not proper to ask any question. say why it -- let's assume i have people to argue in front of me, it is quite a thing to be arguing to somebody who you know who has made representation in the course of his confirmation hearings by way of condition to his being confirmed that he will do this or will do that. host: did you work with them? guest: i did and i remember well that that question was going to come up. i remember saying to him "judge

scalia, could you tell this committee when life begins?" he looked at me and had a blank look on his face and said," i think we should think about this a little bit." eid said you cannot answer it. there were others that said you must answer one way or another way. this was an example were you form a subcommittee. you tell the experts to go away and come back with a 5x7 card that they nominee can kick around and give a correct answer. the lawyers figure out he could not answer a question like that. 0.st: judge scalia won 98- william rehnquist was 65-33.

who triggered the votes against him? guest: difference was -- you mean bork. host: rehnquist-scalia a vote was very different. guest: scalia was under the republican chairmanship. and they had just done in bork and there was no stomach for doing it again. gotten enough ahead of scalia, he would have made it. it was a republican senate and they were not going to turn down this nice, young, good-looking italian boy to be on the supreme court. first to bork up replaced a liberal on the court. huskily of boat was a piece of cake after that. guest: -- the scalia vote was a piece of cake after that.

host: you said something about his beard being shaved off. laxalt and maybe senator thurmond told me -- a lot of steps said this the weird beard of his becoming a factor. he must shave it. bork asked me privately if he should shape. shave . i told you have been accused of and if you shave your beard, it would look planned. if you go to the hearing without a beard after your one and all your life, that is the ultimate confirmation conversion. the theatrics will not wash. i told them you should not shave it. he agreed with me and he did not shave.

guest: who invented the term' murder boards.' it means you sit around in a mock hearing and i and others like me ask the worst questions you can possibly think of. host: where do you do this? guest: in a backroom. you do not do it at the agency or the court. you get a room and the executive branch somewhere or do it in the white house as in the case of the supreme court people. get a back room somewhere and sit around and for questions at them. the point is, when the hearing is over, he comes to you and says there were not half as bad as you were. host: what was the longest murder board you ever had? guest:bork. host: how many days did you do it? guest: he liked to sit around a kitchen table at his house which i did more than 10 times with

other lawyers. became a constitutional law expert kicking cases around. they went on and on. the thing i did not pick up on with bork is that his answers were not watching. i'm supposed to say that is not good enough for a public hearing. you can do to one in a law school faculty room but this is washington, and i did not pick up soon enough on that. host: did anybody refuse to do the murder boards? guest:no, at the wanted to get confirmed. host: did you worry about anybody after listening to them during the murder boards? guest: i worried a little bit -- a little bit about bork. the executive office building at the white house and he went on and on. there were 30 people which is

too many. everybody wanted a piece of the new justice. we got around a big, long table and started asking him questions. senator howard baker asked said it isand bork this where i give my fourth of july question? i should have gone and banged him on the head and said shut up and answer. host: this is an interesting piece of tape or gerald ford is introducing robert bork the committee and you are in the room, over his right shoulder, and we wanted to the end when jerry ford and back to you and pat to on the back. [video clip] >> mr. chairman and members of this distinguished committee of united states senate, i strongly urge affirmative committee consideration and favorable approval by the united states

senate, thank you very much. >> now we will proceed with the senate republican leader. host: what did you see there? guest: what happened is that president ford said he will testify for bork. i said you should not go and testify. presidents don't do that. he said i will go to testify. i remember saying, nobody explains it that way to me before. sure enough, he felt road -- he felt so strongly that he went to testify. one thing that happened was that i should have done a mortar board for the president. guest: this is after he was president?

should of i guess i don a mortar board. he went to the hearing and there were a lot of questions they asked him and they got into the weeds cases. nobody has read all the cases. the president did not quite come across as well as he should have in some of the answers. you worked for jerry ford and the white house so what is a moment you will remember about him we have never heard about? guest: i was the first person he hired. casual person. he left the door open. even whenin and out he realized he was president. one of my favorite moments as when he became president, he said we should call the leaders down and have a session. i call the chairman of the finance committee to come down

and meet the new president. president came down and russell long and i were in the oval office. he was a guy who pulled his chair for. all of a sudden, he is right next to the present -- president putting his hand on his knee. and, isident is nodding swear, i thought he was still in the finance committee meeting for an armed services conference. and i closer and closer thought this was not going well. he is president. he has to transfer his mentality into the presidency from the legislative branch. fast forward -- the president went to some conference in the caribbean.

and the tax bill is still kicking around and he said a better bring russell long back to talk about the tax bill again. this time, it was amazing -- president ford had become president. it is looking forward to long to tell him what we are going to do. during that first meeting and after he came back from this conference, he became president. he became an executive branch preacher and he was not backing down. host: i have seen some of the papers you have written. guest: i gave them to the nixon library. i gave some of them and some of them are still in the watergate caverns. host: what i read online were some memos you had sent to bill timmins./ you had picked up in the senate

and some of the complaints people were making about the possibility of pardons. , about jerry ford pardoned people and maybe pardoning the president. what do you remember about that? guest: the only thing i remember about pardons -- there were a couple of senators whose staffers had gone to jail. the one part and that was the big one was when president ford pardoned nixon. over national nightmare is and he pardoned nixon. down and itty went probably cost him the election to ctrter by after. the parting came up with alexander haig. he was chief of staff to nixon and askednt to ford

are you ready to take the presidency. i don't know what else happened and nobody else does. and they have both passed away. ever asked to lie? you knowingly and now you're telling somebody on the hill and on true that the white house said? guest: no, there were a lot of things i did not say. know which i don't is a credible answer. host: many people in the nixon administration went to jail because of perjury, not because they stole anything, they lied. guest: they lied to the fbi. the fbi came to see me and asked what i know about all of this and who did you tell. rosewoods the famous

tape. somebody told me we have a number of the problem =. i told two or three people that we have another problem. back at the watergate time, everything happened on friday. i told somebody we have another problem. what i knewasked me about that and i said somebody told me. other thing i did, and i am bragging for a minute -- when i would go to lobby somebody, i would say," senator, here is the upside of our issue and the opposition is sitting in your waiting room and here is the downside in what they will say to you and this is why they are wrong." i give them both sides and they appreciated that.

once in awhile, they would give you something to use in your lobby talks that was wrong. i would find out about it later. i would chase centers down in airports and dinners and say i was wrong this morning. who else on the other side of the aisle has done what you did and did you represent democrats? guest: i represented democrats even in the current administration. i am not alone in doing these things. cole was the lawyer at state. i lobbied for the new undersecretary of state. was thedt undersecretary of commerce for about three months. then he went to state to be

something. three months earlier, he was fingerprinted by the fbi with a routine paperwork. three months later, he went back to state, and he said i am going to get fingerprinted and i said we just did it. they want to make sure it was the same guy. he had to fill out more papers and do more vetting. host: you were ambassador to belgium what years and who appointed you? guest: president bush appointed me. w. in 2004. i spent one year in iraq. asked me to go to iraq and i did confirmations and budget and a 275 members of

congress can to iraq in 2003 to have their picture taken and we took them around the hospital's and oilfields and what have you. when that was over, we passed the $87 billion supplemental. i went to the signing ceremony at the white house. the president said to see me after. and he said we want to thank you. the president like to make u.s. ambassador. where i want to go and i said anywhere that does not end in 'stan." personant to show you a you know rather well. [video clip] >> you have not had that particular experience in dealing with labor issues, the issues which come before this committee

and are the central responsibility of this committee. i would be interested in how you would compensate for that. >> it is true i have not had direct experience in labor issues. however, i would compensate, as you put it wisely, as i have done in previous jobs or i may not have been an expert in the field and seek the counsel not only of this committee and the congress as a whole but there are very fine experts in the field. int: you lost your wife joy 1997 and eventually married ann mclaughlin. how did that happen? hos had met her before. andt: she was at treasury interior and labor. i should say quickly that she answered correctly in that hearing.

we met at two or three different occasions. i had given her my card to call me and she took great umbrage at that. eventually, we get together for lunch and the next thing you know, we were married. -we were going to the kennedy center on our first date and i ran into a guy went to school with and ann on one of his boards. he s tell long we have been going together and i looked at my watch and said about 20 minutes. host: for the people outside your father was in the railroad -- hear you are, the power couple, making lots of money, representing lots of big corporations and you serve some

of the boards and all that. what do you say to folks who think you just cashed in on all the best? to say to keep your nose clean, be honest "truthful. this town is so fraught with possibility. i say to young kids coming in -- they ask for advice. the first and i say to them is what do you want to do? many kids have not thought of that. i told on the first thing to do is get a job on the hill, in the government. 90% of the successes in this town and there are obvious examples come from experience. this is a company town. it's called congress. that is the company. it is the executive branch. if you are a lawyer, go be a lawyer at justice but get

experience on the hill. you think you know everything. issuesin a whole lot of and you are smart as you can be but what happens on the hill is that you only have 15 minutes on the clock. on the helm nine years and in the government another 10-20 years. i am an executive branch guy. congresses are necessary evils and i respect their work. in this day and age, not so much. host: explain this -- i am about to show you a clip. you've got a man who used to be a republican and a man who is a republican questioning a nominee. they were both warriors in vietnam so explain what is going on here. [video clip] ." >> you please answer the question? were you correct when you said the surge would be the most

dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since the vietnam? yes or no? >> my reference -- >> are you going to answer the question? were you right or wrong, that is a straightforward question? please answer and then you are free to elaborate. host: what happened there? guest: those were two personnel is that class. senator mccain was running for president and the next thing you know, hagel was not supporting john mccain. he was a republican and then he got wrapped around the axle on positions he should have answered better. in the hearing. aspersionst to cast but somebody did not do a good jump in the murder board on that one. he knew those questions would come up.

was the former secretary of defense and said defense secretary to set policy. there are things that should have been answered better. lindsay grammd and others on the republican going afterwere presidential policies. that is what the whole thing was about. it does not matter who you will nominate. because heerry alone he smooth in his hearing and did not have the record of opposing republicans after he ran for president. host: you have lived on this earth for 80 years and i just read that you have taken on a client named aljazeera. why are you still working and why them?

working am still because i don't have anything else to do. i would like to be a ski instructor in aspen. i still ski. reached the age -- i almost reached the age for a free pass which is 80. i am still active and i am still working because i enjoy what i do. but like the job. i'm a journalist. i was born and raised in journalism. i got a degree from columbia journalism school. i made pulitzer traveling fellow. of the press,om the more the merrier. aljazeera american is not aljazeera english or arabic. they will have bureaus all over the country. but will have news outlets today. you can go and watch fox or nbc

or one of those and it will show on the bottom of the screen, aljazeera reporting. they've got no bureaus the networks. guest: should we be concerned as a society that this operation is of catarrh? sheikh qatar. guest: no more than the bbc is owned by the queen. the journalists are an independent source. when i was in the broadcast board of governors, senators used to complain about not doing more propaganda for america. the reporters said we cannot be

intimidated by congress or the state department. and the stories the state department would call me and asked me what this is that whose side are you on? i am not worried about that. tot: this is one last clip you adviser or not people being you advise people being confirmed and what you do with the family. this is chief justice john roberts that confirmation. [video clip] [no audio] host: sitting next to the chief justice is ed gillespie doing your job or the same thing you have done?

does that image matter? guest: it matters a lot. you have to humanize the. nominee. we talked about his adorable children and you have to humanize them. that was not done with bork. hague ing we did in the confirmation -- his brother was a catholic priest who sat behind him with his collar on. there was a native american their. there. was the prerequisite wife. you humanize them by having the people closest to him behind him. it takes away a lot of chastain from the hearing that it's a good idea. host: you are with a company

called dla-piper with 3500 lawyers worldwide. senator mitchell, senator daschle -- guest: congressman castle. business are in this and have been for years -- is this a good thing that people come to congress and then go downtown? guest: you have to go somewhere. you don't want to be a hillbilly all your life. since we came in, i think the number is up to 3800 lawyers. host: who owns the company? guest: it is a partnership, a conglomerate of law firms that have been expanding. their model is everything matters. do everything from china to

singapore to south america. it is a big firm. i am a strategic adviser over there. met means that they come to and ask for strategic advice and i give it to them. they want to make a senior adviser but i did not do that. everybody is entitled to representation. it is in the constitution. host: what is the biggest mistake you have made in all this time as an adviser in the confirmation process? in the not taking bork back room and beating back hell out of him. i don't know that he would have listened. he intimidated me and all of us. that is one of the worst losses we ever suffered. host: did you like him? guest: i like him, i loved him. he had a great intellect that

did not come across in the hearing. we did not humanize him. he did not have his kids in front of them. he had that weird beard. we had kennedy and the people of the american way and gregory peck running ads against and that made him a racist. "the washington post"had a headline about the southward about bork. they beat us. host: have you thought about writing a book? wast: the senate historian telling stories and said we have to talk. 19 two-hour sessions later, we created an oral history of many of these things. he said you have a book here. the bad news about the book is that there are too many people

still alive but the senate is exempt from the freedom of information act so i can say anything i want. host: can you listen to those tapes? guest: they are in the senate historical office. i was just reviewing a bunch of them that he wants me to release. scholars still want to deal with the bork business. they want to hear about my work in iran and the nixon days and what we did with impeachment. those are good things for historians. there are too many guys still alive. host: thank you very much. >> for a dvd copy of this program called 1-877-662-7726.