machinery. one of the biggest problems we have that is not addressed is people are not responsible and more. ipods, theirir phones, they homes that they cannot afford. the whole housing crisis, we had able refinancing their homes so that they could take vacations and other things other than save them money like they should do. they want to bring rich people of the have a large part responsibility for the mess we are in. thanks for the call. guest: i don't think there is any question that people are responsible for their own situation. 22 million people are looking for jobs today. it is not their responsibility. the economic system is not generating the jobs. you cannot lay it on them. -- ify are unemployed, they are employed, somebody else

would be unemployed. people are looking for work and cannot find it. another 3 million people dropped out of the system because they cannot find work. we have a systemic problem, and yes, people have to take care of themselves, that we have a system that is busted, failing the american people. let's go to the technology question. what you are doing is very important, making america more competitive. technologyroducing at an enormously rapid rate from the 1940's to the 1970's. ivity of the american workforce doubled. today technology is going up and the pay in the american household is not going up. that is a question of the decisions being made in american corporations, and that is the result of the laws being passed in congress. that is not technology, it is not something impersonal. you look at the example of germany. technology is marching in german oy.

german companies have raised the wages of workers five times faster than americans have since 1975. when the downturn came and hit germany, the big german companies and trade unions sat down and said we can either , throwgh unemployment millions of people out of work and have all that burden on our welfare system in germany, or we can do what they called a short week. everybody can take a shorter week. everybody can take part of a haircut. we can share the pain, and that way we will not have a lot of people getting thrown out of jobs, not being able to pay for healthcare, being foreclosed out of their homes, and the economy in the tank. so there are different ways of going about it. i am not saying the terms are always right, but we adopted the idea -- if we accepted the situation that we had -- there are human decisions responsible for a lot of the problem that we have today.

we can do something about that. host: and your 500, page book there are individual cases, and i want to put one on the screen and have you comment. "they represent a new phenomenon in america, the new poor. they have become what might be called "middle-class dropouts," people slipping backward later in life, the exact opposite of the american dream. i like to get out and mix with people, ordinary people do not likend i being in washington. i was in ohio a dozen years ago and i saw the situation, and well before the recession hit. i talked to people out there. workingime they were in an rca television to plant in ohio. they came out of hot -- out of high school in i can 71, working there for, 35 years, and

they upgraded their skills, and did just what the last caller suggested they do. they have learned more, taking courses outside work out a had higher skills, and they moved up the line, making 56 -- $50,000, 60,000 dollars a year. the plant closed down, the global competition. mike hughes tried to get work, and heing, could not get jobs. the economy was going through a tailspin, so even with new training and new skills, he could not get work. today mike hughes is working as a night custodian at a high school. he's making about $13,000, $14,000 a year, 1/5 of what he was making before. he is working in a ship part- time job making another $3000, $4000 a year. if his wife, working for head she is getting laid off -- if it were not for

them, they would be absolutely in poverty. this is a guy who has had a solid conscientious no class life and job all his life. they have been responsible, they have saved, they own their own home. thank god he spent enough years, he owns his own home so has some security there. they cannot get anywhere. the guy cannot afford to retire because he has no accumulated savings. savings at his company he used to send his kids to college. his kids are going to college and he has no retirement savings. that is the kind of bind that people get into. ,am scholl got another job then she lost that job. she was a census taker. interesting comment she made. she said the best thing about being a census taker was being needed again. she said you have no idea how terrible it is to be unemployed. if you work all your life and are suddenly unemployed, nobody needs you, nobody wants you, you feel useless. she said the psychological toll of that is as bad if not worse

than the financial toll. we are two america's those who have steady work and are doing well, making household income of 75,000 dollars, one $120,000 and up. half of another america. it is not just new immigrants. it is not just people who are illiterate. it is people who have worked hard, are conscientious, played by the rules of the game, and now they are stuck. it is not their fault. the economy is not there, and when you hear their stories and you talk to them, it is heartrending. .hey don't know what to do they literally don't know what to do. now they are in their late 50's or early 60's, and getting hired at that age is very difficult to do. they are hoping to get medicare, hoping to count totally on social security in retirement.

that close tell us to half the baby boomer generation is headed for poverty in retirement. part of the problem is people are living longer. when you retire at 65, the average lifespan after that is 17 years, meaning you will live to 82. that is half the people in america. the other half are going to live longer. their retirement savings will run out long before they hit 82, and after that they will be in poverty. they will live on social security, and even the president is suggesting cutting those benefits. >> you indicated the average 401(k), funny $5,000 -- >> are the people on the verge of retirement, if your household income was $50,000, you need $500,000, $600,000 to meet your basic financial needs, 10 to 12 times your final average pay. average pay in america is $50,000. you need $500,000, $600,000.

people don't have anything near that. m a laur ryan joins us on the phone from south bend, indiana. hisor and columnist, latest book, "who stole the american dream?" taking myank you for call. i am turning 35 the southern -- this southern -- i am turning 35 this summer. packing andlly bagging dog food and stacking it. since that time, i have had a different jobs, five of which have been contracts for short- term jobs. are you still with us? caller: yes, sorry about that.

i have bounced around the country, going to places where the work was, but it has not been engineering work. to hear the president talking about the need for more thateers and physicists, is a slap in the face because those jobs are few and far between if you have the opportunity to get those. they want three to five years of experience in a specific area, and there is no experience to be had, and i have sacrificed a lot. i don't have a family because i have been doing the diligence thing of trying to stay employed and pursuing this dream that is just out of reach. host: what would you tell ryan? guest: i have to tell you that is a terrible story. abel are told to get a college education, and this guy gets one. -- people are told to get a college education, and this guy gets one. we are losing their jobs to people coming into this country.

be careful with the new immigration bill. theill have an expansion, hb one visa program that allows employers like intel, microsoft, high-tech employers to import college-educated workers from other countries, namely from india but also from the philippines. by the figures of the department of homeland security, there are roughly one million people in america with college degrees, like yours, who are now working in american jobs at much lower pay. they are not supposed to be working at lower pay, but they are in fact. it is against the law, but the law is not very well enforced. more foreigners working in those jobs, and those are jobs of moderate skill, not top skill. what happens is bill gates and the other ceo's come to washington and say we need the world's best and brightest, you should let us ring those people

to america to build america. they are absolutely right, and the best and the brightest are mathe with phd's, advanced and science degrees. they are not for people with ba's nbs's. 's.and bs the only reason for that is that it is cheaper. microsoft is on the record of saying that roughly 40% of its workforce in the washington state area are on green cards or 1b visas. those are jobs that americans can and should have. go again to europe, switzerland, germany, scandinavia. the companies do the upgrading of those skills, and american companies say the skills are not around, we want to get foreigners to do it, and people like you are left high and dry. his is part of the results of policies made right here in washington that are achieved by

very rich and very politically powerful companies, and washington listens to them. unless the middle class gets organized and says jobs and growth and opportunity are what we want, the same way the middle class got organized in the 1960's and the 1970's, and set a clean environment, better consumer treatment, higher wages and fair wages for women, things like that, unless we get organized way people got organized in the 1960's, it will continue to be tilted very unfairly. the economy will continue to be tilted very unfairly in favor of large corporations, and the wealthy against the interest of the middle-class. his is not where i started out. the i started on my book, title i started out with was "the dream at risk here co. but what i found out when i did the research, it is not just at risk willy-nilly, it did not just happen. it was done, it was taken away.

so we need to respond in some way to protect ourselves. host: a compliment directed to .ieyou from one of our viewers "your guest is spot on, thank you for having him." to point out 10 steps reclaim the dream. number one, infrastructure jobs to compete better. number two, push innovation, science, and high-tech research. number three, generator a manufacturing renaissance. number four, make the u.s. tax code fairer. number five, fix the corporate tax code to promote jobs. number six, push china to live up to fair trade. number seven, save on war and weapons. number eight, fix housing and protect the safety net. number nine, rebuild the political center. number 10, mobilize the middle class. let's hear from nancy. guest: you guys do it faster

than i could. caller: thank you for taking on our cause, hedrick. i have sensed there is something wrong for years, and now you're telling us the facts that many of us have felt. i do feel for my baby boom generation. i think really tough times are ahead, so i thank you for preparing them, too. one huge concern i have with our government is lobbyists to me are taxation without representation. they are taking away the representation of the people, and the second thing i have to i am a renewed-- democrat. i was a republican for years. i am back to being a democrat because of a lot of these issues. i think the problem is what you are stating, but everybody wants to blame either the democrats or the republicans for it.

i would like to hear your take on that. host: if you read my book -- guest: if you read my book and you are a democrat you will be unhappy because i say a lot of the things happened under jimmy carter when the democrats controlled congress, and some of the worst changes happened under bill clinton. you will be further unhappy because under reagan there were tax changes that benefited the wealthy and george w. bush. i don't think this is a partisan problem. at the moment, the tea party people in the house are republicans, most of whom are millionaires -- people ought to know that -- the idea that these are ordinary folks like everybody else is wrong. that big surge in 2010, they are millionaires. areof congress millionaires, which also may explain why congress is not in tandem with the country as a whole. but i don't think this is

fundamentally a partisan problem. it is at the moment because they are fighting against each other and cannot get anything done. but it is a much deeper problem. we have structural problems here, and both parties need to deal with them. i am amazed at what we have been talking about on programs like yours and washington in general since the election. i keep wondering whether or not occurredion of 2012 in 1912 or 1812, because the agenda of the election was helping the middle class, and we are not even close to it. as woman is right. this is where we need to get the and policymakers, whether in washington or sacramento or indianapolis, and engage them in focusing on how to build jobs and make america more competitive. there are a whole bunch of things in there that are friendly to business, and this is not really my agenda. i am a reporter. i don't go on political agendas,

i just look at ideas out there that people have that seems sensible to me in terms of the problems we are seeing in the country. >host: jack agrees with you. "make the tax code fairer. the corporate tax code should be designed to create jobs." from lebanon, tennessee, good morning. caller: when i heard one of the women talk about business and hiring low-wage people, it is not just to us but to people in other countries. people will profit from all of this, too. when a lot of people get jobs, -- lose their jobs, their credit is destroyed. when they finally do find jobs, they need to go out and get a loan or something like that, what are these places going to do? they are going to end up raising the interest rate on them,

because their credit is no good. thesely that, are businesses that go and check the credit bureau for people's credit history and stuff like that -- every time somebody goes to check their credit, their score goes down, and that is not fair to the people. guest: this is a terrible problem. the banks have learned that they can make more money on people with bad credit records. it used to be that banks did not loan to people with bad credit records. smart banking, safe banking, sensible banking said somebody is a credit risk that is bad, they don't loan. then they discovered in the 1980's and the 1990's that they could make much higher profits if they would loan to people with bad credit records, why? because those people never got out of debt. they were always paying the minimum, the penalties, the high fees. people who pay off their credit

-- isotally every month nice for the banks to get paid off, but they don't make much money for that. they want you not to pay it off. as woman is right, they want to keep you in debt. one of the characteristics of the 1990's and 2000's, banks and credit card companies were sending out multibillion dollars worth of offers to open credit card accounts because they want people to go into debt. the way the banking system and the housing mortgage system worked in america, it got turned upside down. i did not understand that until i started doing the research. it did not just happen by accident. people discovered it, there were more profits in that. they changed to the age-old way of doing it, and there were people inside the banks, i interviewed one of them and he said this is crazy. that bank eventually exploded. this guy said he was in charge of credit safety for the bank. he said you are loaning to

people who do not get paid back, we are getting stuck with this. the ceo and the board said we are making more money, this is the way we are going to go. we will make a profit on the front end. it is astonishing. there is a whole system that got turned around, and this woman is right. she is talking about a problem that is designed to keep people like that in debt. host: let me conclude where you begin your book. from lewis-- a quote brandeis. a choice.ake we may have democracy or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we cannot have both." guest: that is almost worth reading again. there is another one in there that bothers me. i am worried about our country. when i got into this book, it scared me a lot more than what i was reading about the recession. there is a quote in there from john gardner -- that is it right

there. is -- --tion civilizations die of disenchantment." talking about civilizations, how they get in trouble when they have schisms in the soul of society, in politics. we are a divided country. , a housearned us divided cannot stand. unless we come together and heal, to give ourselves as a family again, start caring about something other than our own immediate short-term profit, we are in deep, deep trouble. host: the author of "the power game" and "the russians." hedrick smith, thank you for being with us. steve, thank you.

i appreciate the opportunity. host: you can log onto hedrick smith.com, and you tweet as well, right? >> hedrick smith1, that's me. host: when we come back, child care in america. as "washington journal" continues on this friday morning. we are back in a minute.

>> this year's c-span student videocam competition had entries from 3500 students on the theme "message to the president." we talked to the three winners. >> my dad's friend was unemployed, going through the process of unemployment and everything at the time, so i thought he would be a good subject to follow, so i kind of followed his story. >> i had an introduction to law course and was learning there was a double standard for those under 18 and for those over 18. so i was into children's rights, weyou will, and i realized don't have a say in the creation of the debt, what we are going to have to pay it off.

>> at first when we originally picked our topic -- >> which was what? >> infrastructure in the growing need for public transportation in this country. they were not very excited about the topic, but after i had explained it to them, they kind of caught on. while researching, we decided that we could have high-speed rail as one of the segments as well since that was very important to the topic and our country. >> more from the top three student can winners saturday morning at 10:00 eastern on c- span. was a small airport back in the 1920's, the military came and established a training base during the second world war. it was a very active base am a quite inaccurate view to yuma until, after the second world war ended, it closed and

everybody left. the little town of yuma had about 9000 population, and that was dwindling because people were -- there was no construction going, tourism had not been established yet. had not a very bright future. with a population of 9000 and dwindling, the junior chamber of commerce said something has to be done. we have to attract attention to our good weather and try to get the airbase reactivated. they came up with an endurance flight because every time the flight would be mentioned, it was yuma, arizona, and get the military re-interested in reactivating the military base. in august they tried again, and they stayed up several days and had another major problem. it was hot, you know. it is really hot here. people said you were not going to try this. yeah, we will be up 2000, 3000 feet where it is cool.

it took a while to get the airplane ready, but they took off on august 24 and they never touched the ground until october 10. >> in late 1949, the future of yuma, arizona, was resting on the wings of one airplane. this weekend, the history and literary life of yuma, arizona, 2.turday on booktv on c-span washington journal continues. host: we are looking at america by the numbers, and our focus, child care in the united states. we want to welcome barbara gault, the executive director and vice president of the women's health research, and linda laughlin from the u.s. census bureau. us begin, linda laughlin, with childcare and the u.s. -- in the u.s. and some of the figures you put together. in 2011, 12 point .5 million children under five in some kind of child care arrangement -- 12

point 5 million children under five years old in some kind of child care arrangement. this is from my recent report that was released last month. and i continue to highlight how childcare care is an important issue for american families. not only to parents but to childcare providers, policymakers and researchers. the information that we will share today will be highlighting from the variations and the different types of child care, but how much families are paying for child care. host: you point out that families spend a greater amount twooney on childcare, often or three-income families irking two or three jobs. guest: in 2011, a family below the poverty line could expect to pay 30% of their monthly family income on childcare. it continues to be a burden for families, and this has been a historical trend we have seen

from about the 1980's. this let me ask you about graph. a perspective from the middle 1980's, about $84 a week in childcare payments, now up to about 100 $43. when we looked at these numbers, it still seems low. it does look low, and it is a bit misleading in a way because this is for people who are using any amount of childcare. this includes people paying for child care five hours a week. as well as people using full- time care. if you look at the cost of full- time, full-year care. the numbers are much higher. they can range from anywhere some states year in to $16,000 a year in others. care, especially formal childcare in childcare centers, is really quite high. this represents the average of people who pay for anything

are paying. host: if you are a working -585-t, the number is 202 30 881. if you are a childcare provider, .all 202-585-3881 tw2.thers, 202-585-388 this is one that is very interesting. we asked families how much do you pay for childcare,, and we asked by arrangement. from the information we have had, going back to 1985, we have seen it has gone up and down. we have seen ads and flows, the highest being in 1987 when we saw 42% of families saying they

paid something for child care, either a dollar or $100. that declined to 32% in 2011. the more interesting part of that, for families paying for child care, it has been a pretty constant around seven percent of monthly family income. it has been a consistent trend there. art of the reason is for families who do pay for childcare, in our survey they have higher incomes in their households, so it does not make as much of an an impact on their monthly family income as other household costs like food, gas, transportation, etc.. barbara gault, there are so many different variables. you may have a neighbor who has a daycare facility in the neighborhood, you have the more formal daycare facilities certified, you have workplace facilities. how do you gather that information and try to decipher who is doing what? guest: it is a very compact system we have in the u.s., and

it is a complex issue for families because families are trying to piece together a number of different sources of childcare. and truly that is one reason why this report that the census bureau does is so critical. everyone who follows childcare around the country really rely on this to have an understanding of who is providing the care, what kinds of care people are using, and how they are using it together. but it is very difficult to track because so much of it is happening on an informal basis. host: barbara gault with the institute for women's policy research, and linda laughlin, a family demographer for the census bureau, and one of those daycare providers is larry, joining us from cap, florida. caller: good morning. actually, my wife is the childcare provider. i will give you some feedback on the subject. thank you so much for bringing

up the subject. ,y wife, as are many providers not just in florida but we are originally from chicago, she has a great education background. she puts in much more than 40 hours, the normal work week. for instance, handing out at the end of the year, pictures and performance things. it is a tremendous amount of creativity and time, not just her but a lot of the providers put in. my point is that it is a very, very unique and demanding profession, a very important profession. i mean, statistics are there and whatever, but when you look at ,- i happen to be in a family and i was in counseling -- family and preschool development, you have to take your hat off to many of these people. they have put in so much time and creativity, and i don't know gives truth to

statistics and government and a lot of these agencies that there is the human factor of the love and commitment of these providers to these kids. host: larry, thanks for the call. in the laughlin, do you want to respond? childcare market itself is really made up of a lot of different factors. we have family day care home providers, childcare centers, and he really talks about the complexity of the people who are caring for american children. of children are cared for by a relative, but that is only one half of that, this is a bigger market we are talking about. about 25% of children are cared for, organized childcare centers. my two percent are cared for made by the father or the mother, and sometimes the mother is working herself.

13% are being cared for by other non-relatives. family day care home, which is what it sounds like larry's wife runs. 28%,85 it is around 24% -- the purple line, and it has declined down to 13% by 2011. we don't have a lot of explanations for that. part of it can be that people who operate those fill need higher-paying jobs elsewhere. we know from other economic the wages for childcare workers has stayed pretty stagnant since the 1980's. host: can you explain about the issue of those -- government assistance to pay for childcare, 12% below poverty, three percent at or slightly above. we asked our survey,

families that they receive any payment for healthcare -- for childcare. one source of help they can get is from the government, usually in the form of a childcare subsidy or other state program. we don't get into specifics, we just see it as a government source. for families in poverty, they are more likely to see that rather than families at or below the poverty line. host: from look later, missouri, good morning. paul, are you with us? you are on the air. caller: good morning. i think we need to look more toward personal responsibility. why have children if you cannot take care of them yourself? number one. number two, let's not count on the government for anything. the government is not in the childcare business. neither should anybody else be. people are a little too being selfish if they have children and they cannot take care of them. firstlet me go to the

point. what about working parents and -- i am a working parent, and my wife and i take care of our children. we have different schedules. we had to sacrifice and work out a different situation to raise our children in a responsible manner, which we have done. our children are pretty much on their own now and have done very well with a really solid family unit. what do you tell the parent who is not as fortunate as you and your wife? this.: i tell them we sacrificed in order to have children. we planned to have children. we are not raising children with a one-parent family, which 70% of some people are doing. we are finding out that responsibility is eventually on the individual and not on the government or anybody else. i am tired of people crying about wanting everything and not taking care of themselves. host: paul, thanks for the call.

barbara gault, your response? this: i think just like caller, many families are working hard to take care of the kids and trying to piece it together while they are working different shifts. now with just in time schedule -- with adjustment time scheduling becoming harder, it is getting harder. we should argue that invest just like we do in k-12 and that -- k-12 education, it is part of a country's economic development strategy. ast countries do invest more total gdp in childhood education. what we are seeing in children's cognitive outcomes and their ability to later work, to get higher education, to avoid the criminal justice system, are connected to

excellent high-quality early education experiences in childhood, and i think that even , parents areexpand going to be working hard to try to piece it together. host: cheryl joins us from new castle, indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. i work for head start here in indiana, and we work very closely with our childcare partners in trying to make sure that we are able to provide , forces for a full day parents who need full day and full year. on lady was absolutely target. we hear that number and he keeps rising for every dollar we invest in high-quality early childhood programming, childcare head start, we use -- we throw seven dollars, but it is

really closer to $13 to $20. for folks like the gentleman who called in earlier who feels that everyone should be responsible for their children, i hope and probably in a conversation he would probably finally agree that we need to look at this as we are all taking care of our children. these young children right now are our future and individuals will be educating our children, providing medical care, and hopefully they will not be incarcerated, they will have graduated, all things that the lady said earlier. one of the things that is exciting right now as we move across the country for polity rating systems so that parents can actually look into look into the quality of early childhood programs. in indiana we are proud of the fact that our past quality has been very highly recognized. as to a way to really indicate the quality of an early

childhood program, parents need to be educated to that and be able to look out into their community and see is a level one, level two, all the way up which is where the programs are accredited. i have to agree with you ladies. i certainly appreciate the hard work they do focusing on these types of issues because i think it is something we all need to really support, and we need to really understand. i think the administration -- i don't agree with every direction they are taking in the early childhood arena, but i do believe that they absolutely understand the importance of early childhood education whether it is childcare, preschool, whatever. host: thank you for putting those issues on the table. we are joined by laughlin from the census department, and barbour golf with the institute of women's policy research. who would like to take that? anst: childcare is not just

issue for working families, but we also see an increase in child care among nonworking moms. that shows that since about -- host: let me explain, the top line is mothers employed, the bottom line is the mother not employed. guest: correct. we have seen there is a growth in the use of organized care, and it is not just for employed mothers but also for non- employed mothers. ofardless of the work status the individual, they are taking advantage of using organized facilities for the education opportunities. points to caller several interesting trends. one is that there has been growth in recent years in state- funded preschool around the country, and that has been actually a bipartisan .nitiative, a bipartisan cause

you are seeing leaders from the private sector investing significant dollars into building state preschool programs. and because of the economic data showing that the investment really pays off. another positive trend in terms of our early care and education system is the quality rating and improvement systems, which is a way to rate daycare centers on evidence-based quality so that consumers who do pay the majority of thai care -- of childcare expenditures in this country know more about what they are getting when they buy what is very expensive childcare. it costs a lot of money to run a childcare business. salaries are high, although always -- not always high enough given the skills required and expertise.

and the compassion that is brought to the table. we have a lot to do to improve our system, there have been positive gains, and i think those come about with support on both sides of the aisle. let's go to russ, joining us from temple, texas. ,aller: what i have to say is me and my wife, we are a two- income family. we had no choice but to use daycare facilities, simply good because -- simply because my son needs pre-k schooling. most of my income ended up having to go to pay for the daycare, and it still does not even compensate for all the time that we need to have the children watched. we still are using both of our parents, and we still have to

pay other people to make sure that we have the hours made up for the time that we need. for the call, which goes to this next graphic. guest: i always say that families operate within a limited framework of options when they are making a childcare choice, and there are a lot of different options that come into play. what is available to you in the area, the cost, the number of hours. there are a lot of different factors that families have to take into consideration. particularly for employee families, children spend on average 36 hours in care per week. that is almost enough to cover a 40-hour work week, but not a time you need to commute and travel and pick up your kids. if you are using organized facility, about 33 hours on average per week.

the same with the family daycare, about 32 hours per week. when you are using organized facility or someone outside the home, you are certainly using it more hours per week than if you were relying on a relative. the more hours they spend in care translate to more hours you have to pay for, which can be a burden for a lot of families. host: one of our viewers looking at single parents, pointing out that about half of the kids are born to single parents, calling that financial suicide. guest: it is tough financially to raise a child alone. that theeality structure of our families has changed quite a bit, and that doesn't seem to be going anywhere necessarily, so i think we need to adjust our expectations and our system of support to account for the fact

that a large number of kids are not from two-parent families. host: today we are focusing on childcare. our guests at the table, linda laughlin from the census bureau, and barbour golf with the institute of women's policy -- barbara gault, with the institute of women's policy. caller: good morning. like i was telling the person i talked to earlier, when i was a daycare provider -- i am trying to pick it back up at 40 years old -- when i had the kids that were in daycare, i charged a set amount, and a lot of the , they who came to me came to me with vouchers, and they did not have enough to cover the daycare. 6:00 to 6:00, 12

hours. take of times they would their welfare checks and give me the majority of their money that the state was giving them to pay the extra amount that they needed to pay for daycare because they needed all that have the kids in daycare because when they leave in the morning, if they have traffic on the road and stuff like that, they have to allow that time to go to work. it depends on what area they are coming from. traffic would be backed up when they would come in. a lot of times, they really don't have the money. they are taking the money to look for jobs on welfare. when they do for -- when they do look for a job on welfare, the money that they are giving them is going straight to daycare, so they don't have the money. they want them to work. how can you work when you take a majority of the money that you

need -- you have three kids and -- are asking a father to parents are not paying for child care support. i'm sorry. i am getting a little anxious here. host: caroline, let me stop you because you are making an important point, and that is one of the first things we are talking about. that will give us a chance to focus on this last point because families in poverty spend a greater portion of their monthly income on childcare. as carolyn pointed out, another big factor are those so-called deadbeat dads who don't pay child support, which is often used to pay for child care. keep childon't support data in this report. our information is from the census bureau, and we you can find that on the website. if that source is from a government source or another

source, the other source can sometimes be another family member or someone else outside the household. further down, showing the differences in childcare payments, those who are married and those who are not married. -- slide 12. it will be sort of small for you. married households that are paying about $157 on average per week, versus $111, if you are unmarried. host: $112. guest: even though there is a difference in the price or the amount being paid, it is still over $100, a significant cost for a single-parent household. host: from a grandmother, "my children's children were not our responsibility for their first while their parents work.

how many still have this kind of help mexic?" guest: i think we are likely to see a decline in extended family members ability to provide help when more people need to be out in the workforce earning money in what used to be the retirement years. and if we have fewer pension programs and less reliable retirement income sources, how many grandparents will be able to make that sacrifice to provide very low cost or possibly free care when they need to -- host: another chart from the census department dealing with children -- families with children under five pay more for child care. between the ages of five and 14, it goes down. usuallyounger children require more hours of

supervision, which is why we see higher payment for them. families with only children under the age of five pay an average of $179 a week. we cannot capture any differences by various margins of cost in the united states, but if you are in a household with only children between five and 14, your payment alan average is $93 per week. host: why do parents with child -- with college degrees pay more? guest: there are different factors. they could be working so they need more hours per day. could enroll their children in programs with educational opportunities. to have a college degree or higher, but on average it is about $178 per week versus a mother without -- with education levels of high

-- an, a an average 111 average of $111 per week. host: sherry joins us from lynchburg, virginia. welcome to the program. caller: this is all well and good to talk about all this, however we have no answers because the government wants us -- they want us to depend on is ridiculous. the more children we send early, they are going to get a hold of our kids, we are going to have a bunch of liberal kids and be in even worse condition. that is all the reason they want to start doing these things. pay your way, pay your way. i don't need the government. the government is supposed to protect us, not indoctrinate us. host: ok, thanks for the call and the comment. we go to marry, a day care provider from reynolds station, kentucky. good morning.

i am a grandparent and i have never charged to take care of any my grandchildren. host: how many grandchildren do you have? .aller: i have four grandchildren, nieces, nephews, great-nieces and great nephews. i let them into my home and i took care of them on my own. i do not have a high school graduation certificate. i run a farm, i can drive a tractor, i can use a chainsaw, i can do electrical work, plumbing because i was taught. host: mary, are you still with us question mark we lost mary -- mary, are you still with us? we lost mary. another daycare provider. guest: she is pointing to an interesting debate in early education circles about the qualifications for family,

friends, and neighbor-provided care. where you think about all the skills she is able to teach her grandchildren who have nothing to do with formal education, and many -- even the caller before that alluded to, if you want your children to be in a setting where there are cultural values that are similar to your own -- some of the things that we need to pay a little more attention to that sort of thing, that is -- then simply just the diplomas that a caregiver has going into the work. although much of the research on quality does suggest that just on an average basis, the higher levels of education a provider has or an educator has, the higher quality experience children will be likely to be having. but in this case, i think those kids are in great hands. host: linda laflin, let me ask

you up -- -- linda laughlin, let me ask you about so-called latchkey kids, the ages of 12 to 14, so not old enough to drive. we asked families if there was ever at any amount of carethat the child had to for himself or herself for any reason. this could range from an hour any day after school to a full day. an average about six hours of self-care per week, and that self-care is more prevalent among older children. so here we set 27% of children 12 to 14 are in some unsupervised situation during the week. host: but five percent, which may be viewed as high between the ages of five to 11. guest: right, so it is sort of keep it apart, because

there was only one survey question, what that means. ife parents may feel guilty they have done it for a half hour in that regular week that we ask that, and they report on that. host: our next call is mike joining us for granted -- from grand rapids, michigan. come and eight children do you have, -- how many children do you have, mike? two children and five grandchildren, babysitting for them also. i want to talk about the idea , and yourstart presenter mentions that democrats and republicans are agreeing on childcare? hello? host: we can hear you, mike. caller: i don't see that. the conservatives are saying .hat childcare does no good

,s they would state it progress in the first three years or so, and after that it doesn't do any good, so we just cut it. my son's girlfriend is a head start teacher, and because of the sequester they ended their school year now, like 4, 5, 6 weeks early. so i am concerned about that. by conservatives on head start saying that it does not do any good. am 68 yearsing, i old and i don't understand, since the tea party has come in, the whole government is against me, why should we depend on the government to do anything? theeems to me that conservative seems to attack government for doing things to people -- doing things for people -- social security.

in michigan, for example, the attack on the poor has been unbelievable, by the governor by -- host: so your question is what? caller: my question is, i just wanted to bring the point out that i don't know that there is a joint effort by both parties to do anything about head start and education for the poor. host: barbara gault? guest: when i spoke about bipartisan efforts at the state level, i was speaking specifically about state-funded preschool, which has seen bipartisan support in review recent decade or so. there has been controversy with a head start program, and many would say that that is unjustified and that the head start program has contributed a huge amount to helping

especially low-income children and church kindergarten ready to learn. but i think he is absolutely correct, that has been a point of debate. host: this is a question from one of our viewers. how has the sequester affected day care programs nationwide? do you have any data or anecdotal evidence? guest: we don't because our data is from 2011. we don't have that information, but we will be checking childcare data in the next couple of years and we may see some of those effects and we can report on that. host: howard is a foster parent joining us from alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. i mostly have a statement. i watched a lot of babies of irresponsible parents, and the whole system is not going to get better. if they are a little bit irresponsible and you take one

of their responsibilities away from them, they just become more irresponsible. people who work in the daycare system, they promoted helpfully -- they promoted -- they promote it heavily because it attacks their job. us. now that i doh not have -- our kids are grown up and our house was empty. we decided to take foster care. we took care of them for 15 years. a lot of them were from irresponsible parents. host: double for the call. guest: there are some of the most interesting models out there for new approaches to -- iding child care actually providing educational and work related support at the same time they are providing educational experiences for the child. the thinking there is that to

really help a family get out of the poverty permanently you cannot just focus on the children. you need help the parents as well to get the skills and education that will get them out of a cycle of getting a job that leads nowhere. host: the title of this "who is what onehe kids," thing surprise to the most? guest: we talking about the declining number of children in health care with single employed parent. from 24% ofline children with a single parent were in self-care in 1997. that decline 14% in 2011. parents have been able to find jobs that better

mirror the school diay. we do know in the late 1990's there were increases in school funding. there is this idea that this myth of children with a single parent may not have as many resources, we did see a decline in the report of self-care monitored children. host: thank you both for being with us. a full weekend of programming check it-span, you can out on our website at c-span duckboard. thank you for joining us for this friday edition of "washington journal." have a great weekend.

released department the unemployment numbers for april, showing u.s. employers added 165,000 jobs. the gains also dropped the unemployment rate to a four-year low of 7.5%. the labor department revised numbers for february and march, saying the work force at its 14,000 more jobs than previously reported. we have to report link on our web site, c-span.org. the s&p endow are responding positively on the news, both closing on all-time highs.

the s&p pricking 1600 for the first time this morning. remarks on what more work remains to be done. -- his texted is available on our web site, c-span.org. obama is on his second day of his three day trip to mexico and costa rica. henrys today he met with witht though, the two -- the newly elected president. will have the president live here on c-span. it is set to get underway in about 10 minutes. tonight, "road to the white

6" coverage kicks off. we will be bringing you live coverage from south carolina. the republican party costs silver elephant fund-raising dinner, the keynote speaker is senator ted crews from texas. the live "road to the white house" coverage begins tonight span, c-span radio, and c- span.org. it decliningon number of americans looking for jobs and those missing from the workforce from today's "washington journal." host: joining us from new york

is ben councilman who covers all of this for "the wall street journal." let us begin with a recent story that you posted about americans leaving the work force. what is happening? guest: this is a trend that we have been watching. the labor force, people who are either working or looking for work has been shrinking. a share of the population is at its lowest level since 1979. an effect of the recession but also a long-term trend that we have been watching. have a short terma nd long t -- a short-term and long-term issue. the economy has been weak. tucker to slow. a lot of the people who want jobs have been giving up looking. they have no long been searching for work.

that is the major factor. we also have this longer-term issue, which is a share of the population that has been working has been declining since 2000. there are a couple of things going on there. in the age of the baby boom generation people do not work as much in the late '50s and '60s. that is a major factor. we see young people getting a later start to their careers. they are staying in school longer. you put all that together and to end up with this long-term decline in the share of the population that is working. host: your recent store is available online at wsj.com. you pointed out -- they could drift so far from the labor market that it will be unlikely they return when the

hiring picks up. guest: we talk about a short- term and long-term the real risk is that the short-term problem turns into a long-term problem. as people give up looking for work and a drift away we can never really get them back even when the economy approves. if we think about somebody getting up looking for work. maybe they decided they are retired now. maybe they end up going on disability's insurance. maybe they drift towards the gray or black market at work under the table. the theory is not only are they out of the labor force now but they may not return to the labor force when the economy improves. our long-termect potential, not just our immediate issues that we are facing right now. host: let us put this in terms of numbers. this is according to your --lication -- 6.4 million 2.8 million were jobless the

month before. put this into perspective in terms of the time line. is this month to month who was entering the work force? guest: this is a tricky point. the numbers we usually hear when we get a monthly jobs report are the net numbers for the month, the number of people who found jobs. say half a million people left the labor force or 100,000 people joined the market. those are not numbers. that is to say more people found jobs than boston. those of the total gross numbers. this is how many people left the labor force regardless of how many other people might have returned to the labor force. leftillion people actually the labor force from february to and to march. over half of those people had jobs the month before. those are people who are

retiring mostly. or they are people who decided to go back to school or stay home and raise a family. it is the other group, the three million thatng were unemployed the month before, where we have to be concerned. are they dropping out because they cannot -- host: but be sure to restore you posted regarding the unemployment numbers coming out today, which continues to show the unemployment rate hovering at 7.5%. you called it the "spring swoon the." -- -- averaging more than 50,000 new jobs, including an attention grabbing zero net job last august.

we have heard this narrative for a while. it started in 2010. when we got a letter to jobs number in march people were worried this is happening again. i wrote that piece calling it a mess because i am skeptical of this idea that there really is some seasonal pattern that is going on here. if you look at the numbers, a lot of those numbers are the preliminary numbers. zero jobs in august in 2011. once they opted the numbers we action added 132,000 jobs in august 2011. it isn't exactly great but it is better than zero. if you look at the economy over the past few years to talk a lot of volatility, starts and stops, and are we falling back into a reception or are we about to take off? if you dig down the reality is different. there has been described in slow, painfully slow, but

painfully -- but relatively steady recovery. regain some momentum and we fall back a little bit. we really lose momentum and we pick up a little bit. we have this plodding recovery that is better than what we are seeing in europe, certainly better than what we saw during the recession. it just isn't enough to make us feel good about the economy or put people back to work, which is critical. host: if you are currently employed, the number to call is 3880.85- if you have stopped it for a job, that number is 202-585- 3882. from their low ridge on the issue of no longer working -- "how can people afford to give up and afford to live?"

guest: that is one of the key mysteries. when we hear about people dropping out we ask what they are doing. this is part of what we are getting at when we say that this problem is not quite the people often think it is. a lot of the people who were dropping out our affectively retiring. a lot of people who are dropping out are choosing to go back to school. maybe they could not find a job right now so they are: to go and get a new education, build some new skills. those people are different from the people we are worried of truly dropping out. we really do not know that much what is happening to them. we suspect that some of them and upon disability insurance. we suspect that some of them and up working in the grey market economy. some of them certainly end up homeless and in poverty. what we do not have a very strong sense of is how those numbers break down. that is one of the things that

we really tried research. host: if you will his name you a feud. he has been in this is what the story looks like. been sending you some e-mail's back and forth. there has been exchanges. his point is all your information is interesting it is not accurate. guest: we disagree on the interpretation of the numbers than the numbers themselves. it was a good-natured feud. this.ery sympathetic to there is this long-term decline in housing people who are looking for work is more worrisome than i give them credit for. my argument is is not just what is happening over the last couple of years but as long term decline is a result of the

slowdown of the american labor force. we have seen people not only retiring and young people staying in school, even people in the prime of their working lives are choosing opt did a choosing not to work. that is absolutely true and absolutely worrisome. the only thing i ended up agreeing with him on is that a lot of this is expected demographic trends. one thing i think has been underappreciated has been the extent to which careers are shifting. people are entering the work force later because they are spending a lot more in school and working longer because they live longer and pensions aren't what they want for them. a lot more of us are doing white collar jobs. some of what we're seeing here .s this long-term shift 65 you're working from 25 to

and 70. that is different from the impact of a recession that is heading right now and the more immediate concern. let me just conclude with what gs,writes in one of his block "the difference between the rate and reality is 7 million workers. 7 million workers meet a lot of growth in the economy and a much more alarming rate in unemployment. it has nothing to do with baby boomers or demographic shifts." are trying to come up with some numbers -- the no. i came up with when i ran them was somewhere between 3 million and four million. i saw some folks at the economic policy institute, with a number

of four 0.5 million. we saw the congressional budget office comes up with an estimate that says 4 million larger than it really is. clearlyt is there's millions of people out there who ought to be in the labor force and who are not. if you add those people back to the unemployment rate, if you consider them unemployed in our rates are significantly higher than the 7.6% that it supported by the government. we have a jobs crisis. we have gotten past the. in the recession where we're route -- we've gotten past the period in the recession where we were losing jobs rapidly. i think we were completely in line in this idea that hiring is not strong enough. the recovery is not what anybody would like to see. we are four years into the

recovery come after the supposed end of the recession. we have nearly 3 million fewer people working than we did when the recession began. particularlya great time for the economy to start with. our real gap is even larger than perhaps that 3 million suggests. can lose sight of the fact that clearly the job market is not as strong as we wanted to be. >> with new numbers by the department of irritating a shot at the economy. john is joining us. he has stopped looking for a job. he is on the phone from rio rancho new mexico. domal fork you pronouncing my secretly.

. am taking a final class today for a long time, i sold cars. i was a loan officer when i moved here. iran and entertainment agency for a while, i had three or four deejays running around doing shows. i was doing the work myself for 10 years. it whittled down to very few calls and i stopped at about a year ago. when you have had a real job and worked for someone for,] 10 years, -- for 10 years, you're pretty much on a play ball. -- chris but unemploye- able. 43,800 manufacturing

facilities that are no longer in our borders in the united states. --the manufacturing is gone all of the manufacturing is gone. host: how old are you? caller: i just turned 50. host: how likely is it you are clinton be able to find a job in the next four or five years. if not how're you surviving? i go to college. student.full time i will be able to go back into the real-estate industry. i really did enjoy working in the real-estate industry before it closed. it is just slow right now. we all have to hang in there. because thea

outsource all of the manufacturing jobs and keep the white collar and managerial jobs. host: we will get a response from our guest in new york. tragedy of is the this economy, this issue of long-term unemployment. we're talking about people who are in the labor force. it is a question of semantics, who do you count in the labor force? there are a lot of people who, whether or not they meet the technical definition of unemployment, have been out of work for a long time. it becomes incredibly difficult to find work. i saw some research recently by a couple of researchers at the boston federation who did an experiment where they sent out variousl resonates to

job postings. the only difference was how much of a gap there had been. once somebody had a gift -- had a six month gap on the rest may never heard calls back. no matter what their they can get a chance. the color out of school is a smart idea. when asked to have been doing for the last few years you can say you have been in class. that issue of long-term unemployment, especially among people in their late 40's and , is a hugerly '60s challenge we are seeing. it is compensated among people who are a little bit later in the careers, trying to make a shift. they have to find jobs vacant

rebuild those retirement savings so they can retire at some point. nothing has really helped those people in the last few years. they're the ones in the most trouble. host: that is the point from edward christian on our twitter page. guest: we hear rampant tales of discrimination. it is illegal to discriminate against someone based on age but it is typical to prove. you hear anecdotal evidence that there is there -- but there is the question that people in find it difficult to call back. for youngerifficult people coming out of school with no experience. it might be seen as a bigger risk.

the people who are struggling the most are the older and of the spectrum -- are the older and younger and this of the spectrum. of theyounger endsd of th spectrum. host: donna's joining us from brooklyn new york. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have been out of work for three years now. host: how many places have you been spending estimates are going for interviews? caller: basically i have continually sent my dismay to various professional head hunters. i am an engineer from my background. i am in my 50's. are past age who professionals look to continue working but not on a full-time

to add to the quality of having free time. companies are not very flexible in accepting professionals with experience and working on a part-time consulting or card -- or contract basis. i'm really surprised that is not been taken -- they are not taking not fraternity of skills these people have. -- they are not taking the opportunity of the skills these people have. host: double for the call. guest: that is one of the things we hear a lot right now. in addition to how many quest -- in addition to the question of how many people have jobs is also a question of what types of jobs are available. because unemployment is high and there are a lot paul of people out there who want to work -- a large pool of people who want to work the companies have the pick of the litter.

they can only give you a part- time job or part-time hours. they can say they will only take you full-time. will only take you to convert certain shifts." the question we are concerned of right now is how are the jobs being created. of the jobs are part-time jobs -- a lot of the jobs are part- time jobs. they may not carry benefits. how do we gets people back to work? the immediate second question is how we get people back to good jobs? that is the home of the challenge the economy is facing. -- is a whole other challenge the economy is facing. this question on twitter. guest: we need wages and people to earn those wages. the reason the focus has been on unemployment so much is that people who are completely out of work are kind sitting on the

sidelines of the economy. it ends up being a huge human tragedy for those people. sometimes it can get a little bit lost in the macroeconomics of this. the wages have been stagnant through this recovery. that has a connection to unemployment. if companies can hire any number of workers they do not have any motivation to offer more money. officially the unemployment rate is just over 15%. as you point out on your story 22.9%, that is the unemployment when you take into account the labor force. asst: in order to count

unemployed in government data you have to have been out of work, actively looking for work and to be available for work. schoolgraduate from high and decide you want to go find a job and to discover you cannot find work so you could a college. -- then you point are not unemployed, you are out of the labor force. if you graduate from college and decide you cannot find a job and you decide to go to graduate school or law school you are then out of the labor force. cases stitch increase in the percentage of young people who stay in school -- we have seen a percentage increase in the number of young people who stay in school longer. a lot of it is likely recession impact. job market is weak. it to account for the waste of patterns have changed.

the unemployment rate among youth is significantly higher. >> c. washington throw every morning at 7:00 eastern. we go live now to remarks from president obama in mexico city, speaking to students during his three-day visit to mexico and costa rica. [applause] >> hola. buenas dias. everybody have a seat. it is wonderful to be back in mexico. i bring with me greetings and from the people of the united states, including tens of millions of proud

mexican-americans. this is my fourth visit to mexico as president. this is my second visit to this museum. each time i have come i have been inspired by the culture and beauty of this land, and most of all but the mexican people. you have been so kind and gracious to me. you have welcomed my wife, michelle. you have welcomed our daughter and their classmates to a walkout. -- and their classmates to oa xaca. it helps that she is smarter than i am. it is an honor to be back in mexico city, one of the world's great cities.

[speaking spanish] [applause] it is fitting that we gather at this great museum which celebrates mexico's engine civilizations and their achievements in architecture, medicine, and mathematics. mexico's blend of cultures and current -- of cultures and traditions can be found in the murals and paintings and songs and essays. "in this place that celebrates your past," which this morning tofilled with young people

celebrate your future. what guarantee is within us. -- maternity is with us. tomorrow and the beginning of the world. it is 1000 years old and yet newborn. that is why i wanted this opportunity to speak with all of you today. you live at the intersection of history that he was referring to. mexico, youople of honor your heritage, thousands of years old. you are part of something new. ofation in the process remaking itself. yourr modern world changes optimism and idealism and your willingness to discard things that do not work -- you see the difference between the world as it is and the world

as it could be. the new thinking that allows us to connect across borders. that includes how we think about the relationship between mexico and the united states. bonds andl of the values we share, despite all of the people who claim heritage on attitudes arer sometimes trapped in stereotypes. the americans only see mexico that is depicted in sensational headlines of violence and porter crossing. crossing.rder- some mexicans think that america disrespects mexico or things that america is trying to impose itself on mexican sovereignty or just wants to wall ourself off. in both countries such distortion creates a

misunderstanding that makes it harder for us to move forward together. i have come to mexico because i think it is time for us to put that aside. it is time to recognize the reality, including the impressive progress of today's mexico. [applause] it is true that there are mexicans all across this country and who are making courageous sacrifices for the security of your country. in the countryside of neighborhoods not far from here they are struggling to give children a better life. but is also clear is that a new mexico is marchemerging. i see it in the deepening of mexico's democracy. citizens were standing up and saying that violence and impunity are not accessible.

it regis' class is expressing regret this class -- a courageous class is holding leaders responsible. you have political parties that a competing vigorously but also transferring power peacefully and forging compromise. a sign of thel extraordinary progress that has taken place in mexico. we know the work for democracy is never finished but you go for with theu go forward words, -- we are seeing that here in mexico. we are also seeing in mexico that is creating new prosperity, trading with the world and becoming a manufacturing

powerhouse from tijuana to guadalajara and across the central highlands. a global leader in automobiles and appliances and electronics, but also on high-tech innovation, producing the software and hardware of our digital age. bennett of spoke for an increasing number of mexicans -- there's no reason to go abroad in search for a better life, there are good opportunities here. you are an example of that. thatct i see in mexico save millions of people from poverty. of generations of the majority of mexicans who -- themselves middle class this includes opportunities for women who prove that when you give women a chance they will shape our destiny just as well

as men if not better. [applause] i also see and powered generation because of technology. i see some of you tweeted right now. whether it is social media or speaking up for the future you want your making it clear you want your voice heard. because of all of the dynamics and progress that is taking place here in mexico, mexico is taking its rightful place in the world. mexico is standing up for democracy not just here but throughout the hemisphere. witho is sharing expertise neighbors across the americas. when they face earthquakes or go

to the polls to cast their votes, mexico is they're helping us. mexico is joined the ranks of the world's largest economies. it became the first latin american nation to host the g20. just as mexico is being transformed so are the ties between our two countries. guidedident i have been by a basic proposition, there is no senior or junior pa rtner. we are two sovereign nations and we must work together in mutual interest and respect. if we do that of mexico and the united states will progress. [applause] i have reaffirmed with your new president that a great partnership between our two

countries will not simply continue it will go stronger. it will become broader. with the president i have seen his deep commitment to mexico and we share the belief that as leaders our guiding improved theo prov lives of our people. [applause] as equal partners both our nations must recognize our mutual responsibilities. here in mexico you have embarked upon an ambitious reform agenda to make your economy more competitive and to our institutions more accountable to you, the mexican people. as you pursue these reforms i wanted to know that you have the support of the united states.

i believe the people all around the world deserve the best from their government. whether you're looking for basic services are trying to start a new business we share your belief that you should be able to make it through your day. when taunted mexicans like you imagine your future you should have every opportunity to succeed rep here in the country you love to get -- succeed right here in the country above. in the united states we understand that much of the root cause of violence that has been happening here in mexico for which some many mexicans have suffered as the demand for drugs in the united states. we need to continue to make progress on that front. [applause] honestlyen asked and i do not believe that legalizing drugs is the answer but i do believe that a comprehensive approach, not just law

enforcement but education and prevention and treatment, that is what we have to do. the lives of their children and future of our nation depends on it. we also recognize that most of the guns used to commit violence here in mexico, for the united states. -- here in mexico come from the that the state. at that many of you know that our constitution guarantees our individual rights to bear arms. as president i swore to uphold the right and i always will. at the samet ime, as i have said, i will continue to do everything in my power to pass common-sense reform to keep guns out of the hands of criminals back androus people take lives here in mexico and united states is the right thing to do. [applause] pressurep increasing on gun traffickers.

we will keep putting these criminals behind bars. we recognize we have work to do on security issues but we also recognize our responsibility as a nation that believes all people are created equal -- we believe it is our responsibility to make sure we treat one another with dignity and respect. this includes recognizing how the united states has been strengthened by the extraordinary contributions of immigrants from mexico and by americans of mexican heritage. [applause] americans enrich our communities including in my town of chicago.

dotted with murals of mexican patriots. you can hear some mariachi. inspired by our deep faith, those are from the churches of our lady of guadalupe. we're so grateful to mexican- americans and every segment of our society for teaching our children and serving with honor in our military and making breakthroughs in science and standing up for social justice. king jr. onceher said we are brothers in the fight for equality. support ofrong latinas i would not be standing here today as president of the united states. [applause]

that is the truth. america's that is heritage, given that we share a given tish mexico, it isn back generations critical united states recognizes the need to reform our immigration system. we are a nation of laws that we are also a nation of immigrants. like every nation we have a responsibility to ensure that our laws are upheld. we also know that as a nation of have tots the laws we not reflect our values right now. the separate families when we should be reuniting them. to live in thee shadows and deprives them of the balance of so many young people. immigrants have been the engine of some of market economies.

that is one of the reasons i acted to lift the shadow of deportation. withourhy i am workign congress t -- working with our congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform this year. [applause] reform that continues to strengthen our security so citizens do not have to wait to bring their families to the united states. reform the holes everyone accountable so immigrants can get on the right side of the loss of their not exploited. -- of these law so they are not exploited. i am optimistic that for years getime -- we are going to it done this year. i am absolutely convinced. [applause]

obviously we are going to have to work with the mexican government to make sure we have a well regulated border. i also want to work with the mexican government because i believe that the long-term solution to the challenges of illegal immigration is a growing and prosperous mexico. one that creates more jobs and opportunities for mexican -- are trinity's for people here. a philip we can reach the same level as anyone in the world. -- i feel we can reach the same level as anyone in the world. i truly believe -- [speaking spanish] -- together we can achieve more. [applause] the remainder of my time i want to focus on areas where we can do more. trade one, let us expand

and commerce that creates the jobs for our people. we already buy more of your experts than any other country in the world. we sell more of your exports then to russia, india, and china combined. mexican companies were the -- we are the largest foreign investor in mexico. guided by the new economic dialogue that we announced yesterday, let us do more to unlock the potential of our relationship. let us keep investing in our roads and bridges and border crossing so we can trade faster and cheaper. let us have new markets and capital. big markets right across the border. are youngd power

entrepreneurs as they create startup companies that can transform how we live. [applause] and let us realize the trans- pacific partnership this year so our two nations can compete and win in the markets of the asian pacific. it united states and mexico work together we can sell a lot on the pacific side of the ocean, where the fastest-growing economies are taking off right now. that is number one. number two, let us build more things together. with many of our companies operating in both countries parts are now being shipped back and forth across the border. every day u.s. and mexican workers are building things together, whether it is kraft's four cars or aircraft's or computers or satellites. i think that is only the beginning. given the skills of our workers

it makes more sense for companies about the world to set up shop in the united states and set up shop in mexico. leer would beorms able to do more business together. the more our companies collaborate the more competitive they will be. the entire hemisphere will chains because of those that have been created between us. nubmer 3, as a secure our economic future less secure our energy future, including the clean energy we need to combat climate change. our nations are blessed with natural beauty. our coastlines and far less to your tropical forests. climate change is happening. the science is undeniable. and so is the fact that our economy must be cut greener.

we have made commitments to clean and renewable energy, like solar and wind power. we have made a commitment to reduce the emission of harmful carbon pollution. here in mexico you are a leader in cutting carbon emissions. let us keep building the energy partnerships by harnessing all of these resources. creating the good jobs that come with -- let us keep investing in green buildings and technologies that make our a kind -- our entire economy more efficient. number four, let us do more together in education so our young people have the knowledge need.]ills they [applause] have madexico you

important progress of more children staying in school longer and record numbers of students like you getting a university education. just imagine how much distance of our countries could do together. how much we could learn from each other. that is why the president and i announced a new partnership in higher education that encourages more cooperation between our universities and our university students. [applause] we are when the focus on science and technology, on an engineering and mathematics. this is part of my initiative call "100,000 strong." we want 100,000 students studying in latin america and would hundred thousand latin students to come study in the

united states of america. when we study and learn together we prospered gather. that is what i believe. [applause] we prosper together. that is what i believe. , let us tralee invest in innovation and research and development together -- truly invest in innovation and research and development together. one of mexico's leading crossfire of gonzales, is helping analyze the data from the river we helped land on mars. we investar and peso in research and development returns so much more to our economy and jobs, new products and services. that is why i am calling for us to forge new partnerships in aerospace and i.t. and nano- technology and robotics.

let us answer the hope of a student who spoke for so many in your generation, she said, "give us jobs as creators.' sometimes young people are known as the consumers of goods. we want young people creating the new products. from the next big thing. that is the agenda i want to pursue. i understand there are those both here in mexico and elsewhere in latin america who are skeptical of progress. they may be doubt the capacity -- us to make the most they say the head wednesday facer too stiff. they say mexico has been here

before. the look what we are making progress. we are looking at a bright horizon but nobody gets -- but then we get blown off course. nothing is inevitable. progress and success are never guaranteed. the future that you dream of must be built and earned. nobody else can do it for you, only you can do it. you are the future. written, you are the dream. [applause] for just as it was peach's who answered the call -- patriots who answered the call of the bill's two centuries ago, u.s. dream they imagined.

you are the dream. that can stepeam for justice and human rights and dignities here and around the world. you're the creators, climbers that can lift up not just the mayor -- not as the mexican people of this generation but the entire world. you're the nation will push people apart as mexico since its rightful place. as you probably say in having your eternal destiny was written by dick -- as you sing in having your eternal destiny was written by god. you have the greatest of nation rooting for your success more than anyone else your neighbors, the united states of america. viva mexico.

thank you very much. [applause] ♪

>> president obama wrapping up before students and others in mexico city. he heads to san jose costa rica -- and leaders of other central american nations, including the leaders of all salvador, guatemala, and panama. the president returns to the u.s. market. , the road to.s. president 2016 gets under way tonight. president joe biden is the key note speaker at the jacksonville fund-raising dinner held in colombia, south carolina. we will be bringing you live coverage from the republican's annual silver elephant dinner. the keynote speaker there will

be senator republican ted crews. south carolina is expected to post its first presidential primaries in 2016. the coverage starts tonight at 7:30 eastern at c-span, c-span span.org.d c- >> we have a link to the jobs report, go to c-span.org. would believe that opening up the dates of our memory, we're bringing people closer together to bring them to a realization of what a human being, an individual can do. who savedchristians

lives by risking their own. every one of them is a hero. >> on the 20th anniversary, i ask you to recommit to replace the direct memories of those who with the with us records of this museum so no one can forget the stories. how theu to think about historic slaughter and suffering of the holocaust reflects a human disease that takes a different forms. the idea that our differences are more important than our common humanity. >> this weekend on c-span, bill clinton and elie wiesel mark the 20th anniversary of the holocaust museum in washington, dc. saturday. at a: 30, from houston, the

national rifle association's annual meeting with an array executives. -- nra executives. although to be, your questions for the world turns upside down author, melanie phillips live in politics, war, history, religion and culture as we start a series with british authors for it on c-span 3, the birmingham race riots, part of american history tv, saturday at 8 a.m. and 3 p.m. -- at 8 p.m. >> the columbia university journalism school held a news conference in the after -- aftermath of the cynical school -- sandy hook school shooting. coming up next, a panel focusing on social media and bad information in the wake of these incidents. this is just over an hour.

hi, everyone. welcome back to the afternoon session where we will talk about social media. we have a great deal to discuss, not just about sandy hook but also last week we had a number of lessons that we will be discussing as well. joining me today, i am delighted , a senior strategist from npr. it is central to the operations of what you do. about hisuthor

experiences of aggregating and tweeting where he established a protocol for many journalists who followed to use the real- time social web for a conversational link to news of verification and reporting. is themmediate left principal of newtown high school. he was one of the most consistent and calm presences on the.l media throughout journalists and other people new him as awn source. i wanted to start with you and just going back to that day

because you had already established yourself. you are an educator who uses technology. your presence already on social media and you used it to communicate with your students. on that day, you became somebody he was known and the dead to emotional letter -- known up to a much wider community. can you tell us what you were doing and what happened at your school. in thehe 14th, i was not district. i was off-site at a professional development seminar and received a phone call from school that there had been an incident at sandy hook. so immediately returning to the school, arrived at newtown high school and the high school was in lockdown, as were all the other schools in the district.

so we have lockdown drills. they usually don't last very long. this was not age real, -- a drill. as far as information coming out, we did not do any tweeting at that time or send anything out, at least the it ministration did not. as much as we tried to keep the flow of information and him him him during the lockdown -- at a minimum during the lockdown, that kind of stuff leaks out. people in the building were receiving information from the out side and there was not much that people inside could send out, other than they were in lockdown. the first message we did send out was that the students were safe. >> right. what time was that? >> prior to the end of the

school day, i will guess it was somewhere between 11:00 and 12:00, is my guess. >> as you say, you had information that was leaking in and leaking out. you were a very measured presence. i've followed your twitter feed of somebody who gave out information. of other public officials who may have had a presence on disappeared. beat you find that you were inundated with questions? >> there were lots of questions. think that our role as far as communicating was one of reassuring the community and the families much more than it was a delivering information. we weren't at sandy hook, we were more concerned with how we

were going to demonstrate to the world that we were strong and resilient. of thethat time, most tweets were thank you's because i think that is much as it was andrtant for our healing, event like this affects the world. and one of the challenges that we had -- even at the high school -- is how do we help the kids at the high school. every kid ofo -- the high school wants to help sandy hook. those things are difficult because sandy hook is inundated with people who want to help, even within the community. lots of support from around the world. we want people to recognize that we heard them and we

appreciate it. >> how did you feel? was there a point where you felt you had gone from being a principal -- did you feel any of the pressure that we were hearing about? were you personally followed and pursued by the press? >> i am sure paths got a lot more attention than i did. our response ability was to protect the kids from the media. in town were were parked across the street from the high school for days. as respectful as they were of the school grounds and not being on school grounds, traffic at newtown high school is just like traffic at any other high school.

when traffic was backed up, reporters would approach cars. administrators and police would try to get kids to school without having to do that. i think at that point, most of our communication was to help with the healing. >> how did you deal with high school students? were they a source material for the press as well? ony express themselves social media and the report to talk about the incident. did you talk to them and address how the -- the two medications might be perceived -- communications might be perceived? >> the students were fantastic. the student continued to be fantastic.

the staff were the ones we addressed the media issue with so they can communicate on a one-on-one basis with students. the few issues arose with media at school other than being proached at home or being approached as they left school. those were major issues. other than that, i think that the students were so deeply hurt that they understood very clearly will be helpful in -- and what would not be helpful to talk about. andou talk about strength you have powerful messages of support throughout. how did you maintain the right tone? you are remarkably measured throughout this. you knew the staff and some of the victims at sandy hook. people in schools care very

much about kids. that is something we always talk about. i don't think it is things that kids and families always see to the degree that it really takes place. this is an opportunity to let families know that the school cared very much about their kids. i had some coaching. during these types of events, it is important to get alternative perspectives on what is going on that this is not something that there is a handbook for. navigating through this type of situation means talking to these people that are well-versed in trauma and defense situations. dr. john woodall is a resource but i use regularly, personally and professionally to manage the situations. >> what advice would you give to orers in your situation

principals who are now thinking about how do you communicate more broadly both within and outside the school? i think that we were very lucky that the structures were in place ahead of time. this could not be developed on the spur of the moment. as far as establishing a blog -- even if students don't go there for information, their parents go there for information regularly. that is what we posted the letters we sent home in addition to automated phone calls and twitter. of a clear structure system of communication between -- and pieces of communication overlap, we didn't do any one form of communication. the calls were repeated and the blogs were repeated with twitter so the messages were with certainty.

we are curious about what your policy is at newtown high school about phones and school. are they banned? do they use them when they should not? >> i don't think is a question of whether or not to have phones, it is a question of when do you use the phones and .ow do you use the phones we encourage teachers to find ways to take advantage of student technologies. the times that i will take away phones is when students walk into me in the hallways as they're doing this. but we care about student safety and walking down stairwells using phones is not a good idea. using them for access and share ideas is of the we are promoting. sixe are approaching

months since the incident. is it something which because you're still public and still very public and out and about about your work and what you are doing, do you find you are frequently contacted by people talking about sandy hook or has a largely gone away? >> we still get contacted at the school. as i was just saying earlier to somebody, the key for us in terms of interaction with the media during this event was we were more than welcome to speak with anybody who was as concerned about our feelings as we were. if it was something that would facilitate healing for students and staff and community, we were glad to do it. >> i want to go to you now. recognized as being

somebody who brought a you -- new threatening to journalism. during sandy hook, you were tweeting very wriggly throughout the day. -- very regularly throughout the day. your asking for verification, you are -- looking back on it now, can you tell me again a little bit about the day and what you were you were thinking through that process and will maybe talk at the end about some of the pushback that you got from journalists in the community. i received tweets from random people asking me if i had heard

about a shooting at a school. they were getting reports of it. andd not, and they told me i went on twitter. you can do a search around a particular geographic area. i started monitoring the traffic. the first thing i saw was twitter accounts from first responders. some of them were official answer more personal saying they were rushing to the scene and they did not know the details yet. as time went by, i have been seeing tweets from family members from local politicians, from students that were in lockdown, trying to figure out what was going on. as i began to capture those, you started seeing television networks picking it up at the local level and then nationally and internationally. as many ofitoring these things as possible. at the same time, being part of the newsroom

focusing solely on the incident that day. we had a e-mail list set up in which any time there was a report that would come in, that we could confirm or could not confirm, we shared it with each other as quickly as possible so we knew and shared what we felt confident about. parcing thethe day information that was coming in from the outside to get a better understanding of it. my twitter account is different from a typical news twitter account in the sense that it does not serve as a news wire. i work with my twitter followers to elect -- collect information from a variety of sources. in the way that a news room away. my followers are around 90,000 and they were able to translate content from every dialect in the region. and help me identify

me put together background information on political leaders and the like. i have an army of people who follow me that volunteered to do these research roles. i began asking people to the same based on what we were hearing. one of the things i did, as i heard other news organizations make certain claims such as a second shooter or a man somehow being involved, i cited that news organization and asked my followers if they had seen any organization offer confirmation. ,ometimes they would say yes the lieutenant was just talking bout this on the record so we know that is true. or this other organization speculated about it. we would hatch that out. -- hash that out.

i can count on one hand the number of journalists who complained to me. wasr argument was that i using social media to propagate rumors, whereas if you look at my tweets, each of my tweets that contain a bit of question about information was always in the context of so and so is claiming this and what we know about it and how has it been sourced and how to we put this to rest or had we figure it out. of course, there are times that he personally suddenly drops into a stream the same way. if they drop into a live news broadcast for one or two minutes, they may not get the full context of what we're doing, but my twitter followers, they follow me for for very specific reasons because i tried to use techniques to work with them. they know i am not a random twitter account spattering stuff. that there a case to say just by the act of asking for incorrecton, you push

information and little bit further? i think news organizations, when they are concerned about that, are being naïve about how much is already propagated. last week in boston, especially towards the end, there were hundreds of thousands of people who were simultaneous listeners to the scanner. probablyhousands were posting on facebook and twitter. most news organizations generally ignored it. what was being discussed on the scanner traffic was 15 minutes and sometimes 30 minutes ahead of the news organizations. they got things right and things wrong. whenever i see a bit of bubbling up of information that is clearly a rumor, people don't know what they're talking about but it is spreading like wildfire, i think is my results ability to jump in and hang on a second. say how do you know this is confirmed?

do you actually have is confirmed by talking to multiple sources? , think news organizations many of them, operate in a world where we are used to being the sole arbiters of information. we would sort through the rumors and facts. rumors would hit the cutting room for -- floor. today, the public is completely unaware of all these rumors and reports and they are playing a vital role in spreading them, for good or for ill. going pretend it is not on organic collagen and try to chime in with them and say you may want to pull back on this or that parse out this one because we are hearing the same thing. think there needs to be a new role in journalism were certain staff during breaking news, they know what is going

on in the newsroom and they know what people are discussing online and they serve as a facilitator in whatever way. >> you mentioned the police scanner. how much has changed in the six months between sandy hook and the boston? this is something we were discussing previously to the panel where you said you thought there was a quantitive difference now. >> with sandy hook happened, there were people who were aware of how to access scanner traffic online. i still say it was essentially the bailey wake of geeks. bailiwick of geeks. people were interested in following live streams. we were discussing scanner traffic that day and had to deal with rumors that spread that way. ,ompare that to last week

where very quickly that first day, people started spreading major so -- social networks elsewhere, where to find access to the different scanners. whether it was specifically whicheverstate pd, one it was, those were quickly dashed by the time we were reached friday, hundreds of thousands of people were listening. there were so many that there had to be volunteers to make be strained available elsewhere because some of the sites cannot handle the traffic. the public is getting a much stronger sense of the possibility of how to monitor official channels in real time. the challenge is just because it is official, they don't necessarily know what is true and what is not and they don't know which voices are talking and the codes that are being

used. they don't realize ameritech -- there are technical challenges. again, it is a situation where people almost know a little too much for their own good. they realize that it is there, they try to utilize it. they share it with their friends but don't always understand what they are sharing. >> i wanted to ask you, everybody we have heard from in the new town committee today has talked about the focus on looking after people within the community, protecting them. were you of how the story was being reported, as it

was unfolding? where were you getting your sources of information from? any point look at the social media traffic and the news coverage of the day? >> i didn't see the news for a week, probably. it was all internal. >> you have no sense of whether -- what about students? did you have a sense of where they got their information from or how they would -- were being affected by how the story was reported? >> not so much. i think that, again, they were in a real serious state of shock. i think some of them were avoiding the news, for very good reasons. --just talking about being the distance of

the incorrect information. we heard this morning reports from the other side of the were asking reporters in newtown and asking them to verify or confirm completely wild rumors which are untrue. tell us about that dynamic. how can we do something which positively affects the speed and spread of that information? in social media now, combine that with news, people are passing along information. even though it may start as reliable information, there is the possibility that it will be in context. there are bad actors out there who purposely take information and political context and spread

it just to see how far they can get it to spread. some people have no shame in situations like this. is thatinteresting comparing the number of breaking news stories in the middle east versus a situation like sandy hook boston for that matter, the chatter is very different because in the case of the middle east, you had a smaller number of people who are eyewitnesses. that is getting passed along through a larger geographic area. the average person in america does not know that much about egypt or whatever. and i think there is a more listening going on and asking him questions, whereas when you have a situation that is relatively in your backyard -- even if you're a couple of states away, that is your backyard. everyone is talking to everyone immediately. do you know anyone and are they ok. the chatter explodes because people have a vested interest in it.

the u.s. is made up of a committee of small committees. in the same way that as you heard some stories coming out of boston, so many people who knew the victims -- i have friends and colleagues who knew the victim, one of the victims that died or one of the suspects. it is that small of a town, even though we are talking about an area of well over one in people. information -- well over a million people. information happens very quickly. when it is playing at real-time and much closer, i think the scale of that chatter is bigger, broader and much more intense and makes it harder to sort through. >> does that mean when incidents like sandy hook-happens, we have a slightly different responsibility, being quiet rather than voicing? -- noisy? like manyhile now,

people, i had my concerns with the 24-hour news cycle. people keep talking and talking and talking. information can be shared faster than it should. we saw examples of that this past week. the suspects were reported to be in custody. that was the furthest thing from the truth. .t is a difficult dynamic if you set aside television people whoe news, use twitter and facebook for reporting, things are speeding up faster and faster.

if you're able to get your followers on social media, you can exercise their right to slow down. there were times during sandy hook and boston where it twitter e to me a would twet to m specific question -- they would tweet to meet a specific question. i would see what the local affiliates were reporting. if something was being reported differently by two different organizations, i would share at both of them and ask my twitter followers to debate how they were sourced and why. you can screw nice things and slow things down.

no one ever said -- you can scrutinize things and slow things down. we can pull back to stay a little bit. difference between tweeting something in five seconds or five minutes can make a huge difference in getting the facts right or wrong. someone asked me how much stuff i was sharing that day. of what iing back 75% was hearing because there was too much noise. i didn't turn anything -- not share anything about the facebook page. he was not in that specific location. let's see if we can find someone who knows him.

other news organizations went with it. it also appeared on facebook and twitter and reddit. the brother posted a message and said, stop harassing me, i'm not there. that was one of the most egregious mistakes. he was finding out his mother and his brother were dead. but now people were putting the finger at him. i can only imagine what that must have felt like. thatorth african boy's appeared on the cover of "the post." thes of reddit went to scene of boston. they had backpacks and they

happen to have brown skin. >> this raises a question which i think started with sandy hook and became clear during boston. this one influence those communities of people who may think they are doing the right thing but a doing damage by a miss identification of individuals. >> more people involved in the news business have to take a better state. i felt responsible on twitter because that is the community where a group of followers joined me and have been helping me in a number of ways. it could also have been facebook or google plus. when the folks at reddit were

diving headfirst, they were using techniques to examine the photos. .hey lacked the context we do not know anything about these folks. they are innocent until proven guilty. there is something to be said about people like me paying close attention. by the time i found out what was toog on on reddit, it was late. i wish i could of spent that time earlier on that space. peopleeeds to be more where we are acting as a asrnalists butter seen members of certain communities. if we raise our hand and say,

wait a second, there will pause for a moment. >> what advice would you give? you started off as an active ist. what advice which give to people. very public but measured job. you're not a source if you're at the center of a story and are identified for your office. what is the role of somebody in that position given that they are a publisher now? >> it is important for public officials and others to be in the spotlight that they go beyond the usual journalistic boundaries of food they get to

know. first obvious example are bloggers. then it is likely there groups of people on twitter and facebook and maybe activities taking place in the community. you don't have to become an expert on all of them. you should be aware that there out there and develop a relationship with them in the semi that national news organizations should do a better job in cultivating sources within communities elsewhere. i have been able to cover a number of stories. i brought volunteers together to natural disasters such as hurricane tsunami. i had a network of first responders who knew who i was

and would share information with me. it is not unusual for one of them to alert me and say, this is going on here, you to tell your local affiliate. the world is both a bigger and smaller place. we have all these niche communities that are online. they are relevant to members of your community. the more time you can get to know them, the better off if you're going to be. you wanted to ask both of in terms of emotional response on social media. you wear your heart on your sleeve went tweeting.

work.ravel a lot for old.n is for a half years daughter is 6. i feel i had a reaction that day. i'm from boston. i used to walk two blocks to the marathon to cheer everyone on. i'm not going to hype that. "isn't it time for congress to do this? why haven't we invaded this country to stop that dictator?" i don't have to get involved in the politics of it. many journalists to the separate those. i'm not saying you have to be

having all these histrionics well things are going on. when you report through social media, that makes you human. thatu behave like a robot, is when people get skeptical. >> what about you, chip? >> part of our job is not necessarily having to do with the news. there are a couple of reasons for doing that. so parents and members feel comfortable knowing that we are taking care of their kids. a big part of the message is in the tone of and the delivery. we talk about the time.

you town doesn't have someone who does communication. the challenge is getting information out quickly but also doing the work. we try hard to make sure the message jimmy cates as much in tone as in the words. unusualu think you're in have you communicate in the school? you seem to be involved in terms of the techniques you are deploying and how comfortable you are with the media. >> i don't think it is that advanced. there may be a difference in the medium or technology. there's not a difference in the level of caring or communication. questions people have from the floor. this question has come through twitter.

job to get have a involved when they see that information. how you might have done that on reddit. you're dealing with these open- ended -- 0 opinionated communities. is the other way to verify information? i had dropped twitter and gone on to reddit on, folks."ang it is not my thing. i think that is part of the problem. if i say we're seeing reports that do not makes sense.

people take pause and they spread mine tweets around quickly. that is one of the roles that i play. with twitter, it is and ecosystem of everything. everything in real life is reflected somewhere on twitter. on reddit, there are certain s.rms and more in andan be harder to go put in a more measured journalistic response. having said that, i think it is possible. i've thought about creating a sub community where npr staff can hang out with redditers for breaking news.

it depends on the community. ask, ard question to particularly about sandy hook. some journalists raise the question of of course there will be missed information early in the story. the talk about if there was a second shooter. the tennis identification of the brother -- the miss identification of the brother. it is a terrible tragedy. 26 people are dead. what is the real damage done when you have people running amok on social media?

>> last wednesday with the report that went on for some time that suspects were in custody. people were staying closer to home at that point, it was not in lockdown the same way it was on friday. god forbid something had happened during those hours when news organizations or reporting that suspects had been captured and people went out and something happened. this is all hypothetical. we've not seen the situation where social media has put people's lives in danger. you could argue in smaller cases it has. the boys on the cover of "the post." he was saying he was afraid to go to school. his parents are worried that somebody will shoot them.

some person the doesn't like arabs or north africans might take him now because they are aware of him. alle are consequences about of us getting it wrong. was created were all the worst information was bubbling up to the top. >> i want to go to the koreans to take questions. audience to go to the to take questions. we have a microphone. >> mike patrick. this is a question for andy. journalists are the arbor for information.

-- you said that journalists are the arbiter for information. see in your approach to it in tweeting some but that heard such and such true, can you confirm it? ?an you see that line eroding >> if you think about the word "media," what does it mean? middle. this is for the truth and rumors are being tossed around. the public is over here. it is our job to parse that out so they can be more informed.

that is an ideal of the journalism that has always been around. anyone on the public side can do an end run. they have their camera phones and they are talking among themselves. there are times i were the immediate is talking to itself while the internet is doing its own thing. ourselves assee the custodians of the truth. in missed is opportunity if we ignore all this other chatterer that is taking place. not everyone will see the final version of the story. look at you see research on people's literacy on different news topics. it can be a extremely abysmal at

times. becauseit can get worse people think they know what they are talking about. some of them do. not. do it is distinct from just informing people. it is giving them the tools they need to be informed and better citizens of the product. if we try to take the more traditional approach to be a journalist, we're missing opportunities to strengthen civil society. to myuestion over there far right. >> hi. i'm from the public review

station in new york city. that you are such an active presence on twitter. intrigued that you're such an active presence on twitter. do you have conversations with students on your twitter feed? if so, what is that ligke? tone? you determine the >> you said something interesting when you're talking about those different levels, whether it was a community member or a student. during a tragedy like this, everybody is on the same level. same and hurt the

everybody needed to hear the same message. talking to a principal is probably like talking to your mother. i will not friend you on facebook. two here. let's start at the back. sorry. malloycurran, freelancer. -- now a free lancer. what d.c. is the future for mainstream media -- what do you see is the future for mainstream

media? how do you see if it shaking nout? >> many newsrooms have created newsdesk with social media staff. reuters, they have a guy that is good that sorting through real-time information and working with their reporters to cover the story. have someork times" of the best ones out there when it comes to putting the material in the proper context. my brother is social media editor at the a.p., of the enough.ly that transition is already happening. social media is becoming

integrated into reporting. the harder part is how do you further? little people ask me the difference between journalist who get social meat and those who do not. some presumed it is generational difference. i know a journalist who recently retired who are the envy of the office because they are so good as dt it. the ones that are good are the ones that have to be comfortable opening themselves up and admitting what they know what they do know and been good listeners in public. not everybody is comfortable with that.

be figuring we will that out. how do we find the right people or recruit the right people that have that level of confidence along with the journalistic jobs that can add to the quality of our reporting. >> hi. i'm the business manager. represent most of the television unions in new england. we had a lot of people in new talent and boston. -- in newtown anad boston. it feels like the wild west all over again. they do not know how to contain the business model because there is no business model of the

internet. byorters are getting jumped the public. it feels like the public is talking to the public. what do you see is the future between the two? >> if i knew the true answer, i would try to find a venture capitalist and take them out to dinner. who knows? it's not that journalists are dying but platforms are dying. we have not figured out how to sustain ourselves and thrive. i don't know how it will be placed. we have had over four years experience in being part of the

communities. enough people feel comfortable donating to their local stations. 4 million people in the u.s. us.s a model that works for we rely on online sponsorship. that is not always enough as well. everybody is figuring out what new partnerships can develop. this is not my area of expertise. are notorious sometimes bad at business. no matter where the business

models ago, they still have to contend with the fact that more information will be tracked, less information will be private, all this information will be out there. ,> i want to follow-up on that e strategic outbreak. the public is talking to the public and the press is left on the outside. what is distracting in the newsroom or for public officials to say, we can change this as asl, present the themselves sources and what is the best way to do that? >> i don't know, especially for politicians. cory booker is comfortable at

twitter and has created a following on twitter unlike any other local politician i have ever seen before. that doesn't mean every politician will create a twitter account and expect the same thing to happen. i think in matches his personality fairly well. they need to figure out who is most comfortable being parts of informal conversations and being part of a more level playing field and willing to listen. some people are better at that than others. >> one thing that is striking about the events that happen and in any dramatic events like sandy hook is that so much that is happening at the time is left there.

there is an archive that is accessible, everything going on that day as well as the newspaper clippings. ate you gone back and looked incidents in the archive as well? community thata is grieving but also wants to move on. what is the effect that is happening there? much i go back to read the archive. every time i write something, i tried to remember it will be in the archive. >> whenever i go back and get archives with my tweets or grab

some social materials to create a story, i am amazed how much i didn't remember the way at thought i did. being online is trying to cover a story and or else. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] fore the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's room, washington, d.c., may 3, 2013, i hereby appoint andy harris to act as speaker pro tempore on this day, signed john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: the prayer will be offered by the the mount ain from vernon place, united methodist

church, washington, d.c. >> thank you for the men and women you have called to serve this body. people are criticized for not knowing what we would do walk in their shoes. regularly forgetting to pray for them. citizens, we tear down and see your image. grant each member and their staff the capacity to dream new dreams for our nation. and then give them the courage to legislate in a way that ensures peace, values every person, promotes sound stewardship and moves our country forward without leaving anyone behind. heal that which is broken, restore relationships that are separated by party lines, surprise the cynical, awaken the

exhausted, humble the ex halted. unbind those who are tied to anyone but you and when the road seems rough or too divided, unify us once more. amen. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant top section 2-a of house resolution 178, the journal of the last day's proceedings is approved. the chair will lead the house in the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible with liberty and the chair lays before the house a communication. the clerk: the honorable, the speaker, house of representatives, sir, pursuant to the permission granted in clause 2-h of rule 2 of the u.s.

house of representatives, the clerk received the following message from the secretary of the senate on april 30, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. that the senate passed senate 853, that the senate passed without amendment h.r. 1765. signed sincerely, karen l. haas. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to clause 4, rule 1, the bill was signed on tuesday april 30, 2013. the clerk: h.r. 1765, a bill to provide the secretary of transportation with the flexibility to transfer certain funds to prevent reduced operations and staffing of the federal aviation administration and for other purposes the speaker pro tempore: the chair lays before the house a communication. the clerk: the honorable, the the speaker, house of representatives, sir, pursuant

to section 672-b of the national defense authorization act for fiscal year 2013, public law 112-239, i am pleased to appoint the following individual to the military compensation and retirement modernization commission, mr. christopher carney, general peter torelli, thank you for your attention to these appointments, signed sincerely, nancy pelosi, democratic leader. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to section 2-b the house stands adjourned until

guest: essentially an online retailer would have to charge the sales tax for michigan when somebody from michigan brought a product -- bought a product from

them online. host: is a going to pass? it looks very likely that it will pass the senate. there is still resistance in the house. house leadership is not fond of tax increases or anything perceived as a tax increase. there is concern about implementation of the bill itself, how difficult it would be for online retailers. this is something that has momentum. it will get a strong look in the house. i think it is something we could see in the next year or two. host: what is the name of the vehicle or building are debating? guest: it is called the marketplace fairness act. the main sponsors are senators mike nv, lamar alexander, dick durbin. senator nz has been focused on this for something like a dozen

years. this is been around since the mid-90. -- mid-1990's. in the house, we have representative steve womack who is also in favor of the bill. host: is there a walmart factor there? very much int is favor of this bill, because they have to pay sales tax. the rule is that you have to charge the sales tax if you have a physical presence in the state. walmart has stores in most states, at least. chargere, they have to online sales tax for every state, eventually. amazon.com used to oppose this. theirr, they have seen presence increase. we have seen them support this legislation as of last year. general,l industry in they are already collecting the sales tax. they believe their are at a

disadvantage to online retailers. host: is this considered a revenue bill? guest: that is a point of contention that the small group of senators to oppose the bill who include mostly senators from states that don't have a sales tax currently. they have tried to introduce --e amendments that would it is a bit technical, but senator durbin has framed this as not a tax or revenue bill. this is essentially an administrative bill that extends the authority to extend something already do to them. the argument is that the sales tax is not new. the fact is that most consumers do not remit that sales tax as they are supposed to when they file their tax returns. that doesn't change the fact that they owe it. that is the contention of the

sponsors. we may see that come up in the house if the opposition go.... -- coalesces. host: who is leading the opposition? guest: senators from the state the do not have a sales tax. ,he finance committee chairman he says his committee was bypassed with this bill, which is somewhat true. majority rate brought it to the floor rather than sending it through the regular -- read -- reid brought it to the floor rather than sending it through the regular process. senator wyden of oregon has been strongly opposed to this. he has claimed this is forcing businesses to take over government responsibility. oregon does not have a sales tax. the problem with that is that if

certain states are not forced to comply, by all likelihood, those states will become the center of online retailing because everyone will move there. host: is there any estimate of the revenue that could be raised? guest: $23 billion is the number being thrown around. that would go to states, counties, localities. host: are there still companies that are not changing -- charging sales tax on internet purchases? absolutely. the majority of online purchases -- an increasing number of online purchases have the sales tax assessed. however, most retailers do not. they are not required to, so they generally only collect from purchases in state. host: what about international purchases?

guest: there are some things like the v.a.t. in foreign countries that resemble the sales tax. these things are not enforced uniformly. a lot of countries don't have a sales tax. there is the argument that online retailers will move abroad if we assess this. that's a valid concern. and congress returns next week. live coverage of the house here on c-span and the senate on c- span2. c-span's road to the white house kicks off with vice president joe biden. athe is the keynote speaker the jefferson jackson fundraising dinner in south carolina. we will have coverage of that from the annual silver elephant fundraising dinner with newly

elected senator ted cruz of texas. c-span's live road to the white house 2016 coverage begins tonight at 7:30 eastern, also c- span radio and c-span.org. massively maden mistakes on defense. the defense budget was not just a waste of money. it was what created the war machine that we have used to create so much havoc in the world and create so much anger and problems throughout the world that were totally unnecessary, that made us an imperial power. that was a real negative. on the other hand, he did stand up for limiting the state.

biggovernment, the government, the state is not the solution to every problem. it can way down the private economy. the idea of entrepreneurs, the idea of technological change, the idea that people should make their own decisions without some big nanny in washington -- he stood for all those things. i agree with those things. that puts the plus in his column. he really needed to stand up for closing more of that deficit. ronald reagan spent a lifetime before 1980 as the greatest scourge opponent of deficit spending there ever was. he left a legacy of massive deficits. that was a historical error of enormous proportions. >> more with former reagan

budget director david stockman sunday at 8:00 on c-span's q&a. >> and now another panel from a recent daylong symposium on the sandy hook school shooting, looking at the lessons learned and how news coverage has been impacted. we will hear personal views of what it was like in the immediate aftermath of the december shootings from the perspectives of the police, newtown's highest official, and a photojournalist. posted by columbia school of journalism in new york. >> without further ado, our first panel for the next hour or so is entitled, breaking news and trauma. this part of the conversation to be looking back at the hours and days and weeks after the events of december 14.

role ofk at the journalists and journalism and how we as a profession interacted. we are very lucky to be joined by some extra ordinary folks. has beenroll from cnn called up to boston, so he can't be here. but we do have a bunch of important people. i'm going to try to do them in the order of which there at the table so that our friends at c- span can pan the camera along. is themmediate right first elected woman of newtown. it is a privilege to have you here. me feel very good about the idea of political leadership, to watch the compassion and care with which you responded to the worst kind of events that any community can endure.

in her capacity as first selectwoman, she serves as chair above the education subcommittee and communication subcommittee and other committees within newtown. she has been in newtown since 1970 and involved in local , leaguesandy hook pta of women voters, and republican town committee, six terms on the board of education. she has a bunch of fellowships and awards which you can find in the bios on the table. are, from the connecticut state police -- next to her, from the connecticut state police, the chief spokesperson for the connecticut state police. he has been a trooper for more than 38 years. during his state police career, the 10 advance has been assigned has been lieutenant assigned patrol.

this guy is someone who has been at work for many years and understands the work of policing. understands as well, i think, the work of the press. i said this to you earlier. i was impressed with the clarity and discipline of communication throughout this crisis. especially as someone who has watched other mass shootings and other large -- and our skill events -- and large-scale events. of w is the news director , covering radio connecticut and long island, new york. she is a large station representative on the public radio news directors' board and has been a board member

there since 2009. she is a graduate of the school, columbia university. environmental engineering consultant and arc service ranger -- park service ranger and teacher previously. naomi faced some very important challenges as the local public radio affiliate as the story broke, and in the days and weeks afterward, contending not only with the tragic events themselves, but the impact on her staff. all the way at the end of the he has devoted his lifetime to photography. those of us who lived in connecticut a long time know his images from the hartford current. these days he is a distinguished freelance photographer. 44 countriesed to on assignment and documented

some of the most important news events of our time, including tiananmen square, 1989, somalia, illegal immigration in a quit or in 2003, and genocide andudan -- ecuador in 2003, genocide in sudan. we met in a social conversation for reporters and journalists who had covered sandy hook. brad selected -- brad's selections struck me. he is currently working on a three-year project documenting the vitality of hartford as a community. portfolio of of his humans rights reporting was required by the thomas j dodd research center at the university of connecticut.

of going to move to the end the table and carry on the conversation from there. i think what i'd like to ask each of you to do is to begin by taking us back to december 14 and a few days after that, and talk a little bit about the choices that you faced, either as journalists, news managers, or in your leadership around the telling of this story, around communication with the public through the press, and think about some things that either you saw or perhaps in your own work that you thought were good choices and that folks did

right, and then some things that you thought were really problematic, things we should learn from. maybe each of you talk for five minutes or so, and we will run down this table and then have room for conversation amongst this panel and the room. pat, do you want to start? let me remind you again to please nuclear cell phones phones. mute your cell our hashtag is sandy hook. you are the public face of newtown. you are rushing towards the as a still confusing tragedy is happening. and then you have to be the public face of newtown as you find out what is happening, talking to the press. what were the choices you made about that? how did it go, and what did you observe? >> the first thought that comes

is a statement that i made when the press was gathered at the first formal press at treadwellcated park, the message that i had to everyone gathered there was to remind them it makes a difference to our community what you say, how you represent us will make a difference in how we are seen to the world. we knew it made a difference for us how we comported ourselves, what we said, and the level of dignity that we need to evidence of we are not forever going to be known as a place where horrible thing happened. i reminded all of the press gathered there that you hold our future in your hands. please treat us gently, treat us with care. that was the first and most important message that i sent out to the community, also through the media. it was my opportunity knowing

that the world was watching to also have that message resonate with everyone in our community that it matters what each of us said and the way we conducted ourselves over the next weeks and months. , if aremportant for us going to be a thriving community in the future, that this not be an albatross, this not be our anchor. it has to be something that we can manage, that we can deal with, that we can somehow grow from and make positive things happen from. that was the message. that was the first decision i made. the time thatom i spent at the firehouse that day. there is nothing that is more present in my mind than the hours that i spent in the back room of the firehouse. there was a very purposeful

strategy put in place by the first responders and state police and other folks there to divide the populations, the parents who successfully reunited with her children were able to leave the premises were in a different part of the firehouse. in theilies gathered back of the firehouse for those who had been involved so tragically in that event. did give me a lot of opportunity to think about, what is my role? ofm going to be the face government, and newtown, certainly a role that i never expected to be cast into, nor would i ever want and don't relish being in that position because of the message behind it. in that time that i was in the backroom of of the firehouse with those families, knowing what was coming, knowing that within an hour or an hour and a half, or at some point someone in charge is going to stand up

and have to say to these families that your loved one has been killed. thathallenge i had at point was to talk to myself, say who am i, what is my job, how my going to bear the weight over the next months and weeks and however long it takes for us to get back on track? the word that kept resonating with me all the time is compassion, the importance of being compassionate, not only to understand the pain and grief and the journey that individual families and parents were going to be following for however long it took to get to that end, but also, be compassionate. bes is a town -- compassionate with our town. this is a town, middle-class , a bit more affluent than the typical community, very safe, a town that loves families and children.

we have always described ourselves as a kind of place where we want you to come if you want to have a happy, safe, fun environment with young kids, because that is what we do best. this was a school that did everything right, a school that had a lockdown procedure, a school that practiced drills, a school that knew exactly how to were initself if they danger. there was no way that the school could have prevented this event. there's nothing they did to cause it it, nothing be counted to cause it. they could do to cause it. all of those messages are in my head all the time as i continue to try to find the right words

to say and the right things to do to help model for the community the way forward. i'm not the entire government, but i am the face of the government. people will automatically -- in , town our size, 28,000 people people will look to the person in that position to model the behaviors and model the actions that are important. in response to that question, what struck me from the very beginning is to be compassionate, clearly compassionate. i want to say that a lot, because i think the way forward for all of us is to understand the journey, but also to be able to translate that understanding into action. compassion has that action element to it, meaning we have to do something about the situation we find ourselves in.

that is really what sprung forward for me as a compelling interest. >> what were you thinking of? were there in the firehouse, bearing the enormous weight of these events. what did you understand about the job? what did you see as the job of journalists in that encounter? >> not that it gives me any credit in this environment, but my niece amy is a student with student care columbia and is now a journalist were cooling in .udapest -- working in budapest

i don't know if that gives me any credit at all when thinking about journalism, but i do have a bit of a family history with it. let me tell you a little bit of that story. when i arrived at the firehouse, the media was already there, which is amazing to me. i don't know how that happened. it was a 20 minute from the time i got the first call, went to the dispatch center to see what the status of things were, then went to the firehouse. 20 minutes were passed. when i went to the firehouse, there were already a number of journalists of different media gathered in a location that was really difficult, really intrusive. we knew the scope of what we were managing and knew that we had to remove the media from where they were. my first interaction with various media personnel was a little bit challenging, i have to say. of course, they didn't know who i was and nor did i bother

introducing myself erie i. i said, will you please go across the street and someone will talk to you as soon as we identify who will be the public information officer for the event? though i did not say, i'm the first selectwoman and i have the authority to remove you from this location -- to determine yr location. level ofprised by the disrespect. i was trying to be compassionate and the role of the media personnel. the event was very fluid. it was horrific in its town. everyone could sense that this was something that was very big. that really captured the attention of all the media personnel there. that was my first interaction with them.

it was not consistent. i did not experience that day after day after day. it was just that one time that i felt the media was more interested in the activity than in respecting the fact that we were trying to gain control over the environment. the overarching feeling that i have about the media treatment of our event in our community is a lot of things were done well. there were those things that were very challenging. the other thing i think of, however, is we are a very small community, a little hamlets, and the place where most of the media gathered is this place called sandy hook center. it is the intersection of four words -- four roads. it totally shut down our commerce for weeks. for weeks and weeks.

this is the business end, the economic driver for our community and those businesses, they have not ounce back yet. i think the impact was substantial. we kept trying to move the satellite trucks. one truck would move and another would take their place. we even found their parking. we found a place for trucks to go and park and still they had to be reminded day after day after day. animositysome between the business owners and that sollite trucks impacted their world. that was another area in which it was very difficult. the early decision i made relative to the media was i would spend time working with the media if i think there will be a benefit for newtown, but i had to make -- i said no to 90% of the request because the town

needed me much more than the world needed my messages. i had to find a way to deal directly with the community, which i did do using robo calls and news last and our own local intranets capacity to get messages out to the community. that was much more important to me than to send messages to be larger world. i did engaged with the media in the months that followed, but in those six months, i routinely said no, i just did not have the time. >> coming back to those issues, you talked with people rip -- with the press every day. there was pushing and pulling and they have a job and we have a job. this was different. >> this truly was different. let me back up a little bit and tell you how we tried -- how we got involved and how we try to organize getting the message

out, which is crucially important in any criminal case, but more importantly this one. certainly it was a normal -- when in fact be first call i got notifying me of this was from the press. the press saying, there has been an incident at an elementary school at sandy hook. i have to be honest. in incident at an elementary school happens regularly lead. -- husband, wife. that was truly what was in my mind. we checked and found it was multiple the m's and then we all went and we had what we call an active shooter response, and we literally ran and got there as fast as we could get there. the intent of the active shooter response is to stop the aggression. get the team and stop what is going on. that occurred. when i got there, personally, it probably took

about 18 minutes to get there. i will not tell you how fast i drove for how far away it was, but needless to say the it russian had been subsided. many, many, many children had been rescued by many different law-enforcement officers. the most heartbreaking thing that anyone can endure is to see the death of a child. what was more difficult was seeing parents be reunited with their children and breaking down, having a very, very difficult time. their child survived and they knew others did not. that was the beginning. we had to get all that done first before we worried about the press. there were times -- nothing against photographers, but there would be a photographer in the way, and you would just ." our needsep back were urgent and immediate. once the children were reunited,

we had unfortunately 20 families waiting, and understanding children do not carry ids. we had to be very exact in what we say. the other six families, the adults he had accounted for, but again we had 26 families we had to tell terrible news to and we had to do that). while we were doing that, i was partnered with a very good friend from the southeast apartment. in fact, i think he owes me a steak dinner. we put together a location for the media, and i have been doing this as a public information officer for 13 years. i do still things. yes, i am a law enforcement officer, but i do steal things. i find a better way to do things. a new way. a different way. we knew we needed to have an

area where we could put all the media and one place and set up the staging area. that was going to be the location are all this information was going to be disseminated. the state police, the local police got together, other federal authorities got together and decided the state police would be the lead investigatory group in this terrible tragedy. that was supported by all the other law enforcement agencies. as a result, i became the spokesperson and the only spokesperson for this event. the important thing is i am no better or worse than anybody else. it was super important that in a tragedy like this there be no misinformation getting outs. that the and from a should be timely and accurate it come from one source. multiple sources could cause a misinterpretation of information. coming from one voice and one

individual, we felt that was important. so we got the message out. all the efforts we had, including, believe it or not, the old-fashioned fax machine. we sent everyone to the media staging area. the press conference information was probably two hours or two and a half hours after the incident occurred. the local, state, and federal leaders over there were phenomenal. they were phenomenal. i cannot say that enough. they came together, and at the recommendation of myself and other media relations people, they wanted to get the message out, to the local community, to the state community, even some of the federal officials just by being there to let them know at the tragedy we had all the support necessary to accomplish whatever objectives we needed to accomplish. so they did their thing and i introduced myself to those i did not know. i told him what the schedule

would be, what the ground rules were. there were a couple of important ground rules. one was, it did not have my name attached to it as being information from this terrible, horrific tragedy, then consider it suspect. there was nothing that would come out that would not have my name attached to it as authentic information. that was important. right away, we wanted to well the rumor mills. i learned a to quell theted rumor mills. i learned a lot from members of the media. i knew that they wanted to know where to go for that information. i still get cell phone calls from people out of new york. just today, literally, still. i would give them my cell phone and i would say, make sure it is important. theuld say, make sure information you are looking for

is extremely important because i will get it for you. we did presentations about every 90 minutes as appropriate. once we set the ground rules, we went back an hour and a half or so later and we said, look some a they are the totality us. fatalities. it breaks my heart. when i look at the back of the room. i saw the carnage. i was there. we could not put information out to the press, any details about the tragedy, because who was foremost in our minds? the victims families. they needed to know first. not to hold up from anyone else. the community was notified that they were safe, but the families needed their information first. they needed to know first. everyone else second. that was truly the thought process. >> i want to ask you this.

had you been in the scene, had you been inside the school? >> yes. go to automatically crime scene just so i know firsthand what we are talking about and what we can articulate. >> so you are forming a strategy while you have the immediate scene in your head as well? >> absolutely. that in it self is terrific. to sees worse was having families who put their babies on the bus to go to school, knowing her baby was not coming home. that broke my heart. it breaks my heart to even think about it. let me continue on. what the press after every press conference, i would give them as much information as i could, knowing they had readership, they had to get their message out. i would give them as much as possible, possible, but not ahead of the families.

not ahead of the families. each conversation would conclude, each press conference would conclude, and i would have question and answers, because i would want to know where they were going, what they were looking for, what their areas of interest were. there were some that i will simply say to them, i will get that answer. if i could, i would get the antrim nation and bring it to them. but we could not put the cart ahead of the course. the press got it. i have been dealing with the press for almost 13 years. i have had battles, the press dealing with different topics over the years. i think i have learned, as i said before what they need and what their objectives are. i have learned what their deadlines are. i know a lot of it. but i have to tell you, the ress in this situation got it. i stood at treadwell park and

looked out over a sea of media, and even saying this to governor malloy -- the governor said to me "lieutenant, i have never seen this mass of rest in my entire career here go he has traveled all over the world. it was simply unbelievable. every single one of them, and there is one i will allude to in a second -- every single one of them treated this terrific tragedy with respect and -- this horrific tragedy with respect and dignity. if there was a way i could send a message to the press, not for publication, but a general message to members of the press, i would have no problem whatsoever and my counterpart from newtown pd would have no problem whatsoever, saying that the men and women of the press

covered the tragedy at sandy hook elementary school with class. in a nutshell, they got it. they truly got it. i said to them at one white, onese -- i said to them at point, please leave the families alone. let them deal with the tragedies they are experiencing today. i said that several times. again, i got it. they left them alone. they truly left them alone. there was one photographer -- nothing against photographers -- >> always. like there was one photographer who felt it was necessary to take a photograph of survivors of one family. a trooper called me and he said, lieutenant, i have this photographer and he is from the big city. it was not even connecticut. i said to him, asked him to leave. i said if he does not leave, you go by every single law you can think about

in the state of connecticut. he is walking on a roadway, he could get hurt. he is parked illegally, that is unacceptable. please make him understand. he left. he left. >> i want to give some examples for what paul is saying about how the media was extraordinarily respectful and .ompetent and respectful there are events that i want to point out. i think there are learning opportunities for people in the profession to see it from the perspective of someone in the eye of the storm for a long time. >> we will circle back. let me take it, naomi, to you. you are the manager of a public radio station that has a station, and you are usually dealing with communities i am long island --

in long island. as the information comes in, the story it is what it is, what are the choices you face? >> there were choices on many levels. the first name i needed to do was get somebody to the scene and actually i learned about what happened well my first reporter was on his way. he heard it, got in his car wisely, and then called me. that was fine. we are a staff of about 10. field reporters, 3, 4, five, depending on the time of day. i sent another reporter out immediately with a little bit more equipment. we find that what happens is that one reporter goes to the park, to treadwell park. verse to the firehouse and then the park. and waits. meanwhile that person is in a vacuum.

they need so much support from the studio, which is what the rest of us were doing at that time. we were hearing lots of things going back and forth with the reporter, and when we heard the number go from one or two up, we said that to our field reporter, who had heard that, but considered it a rumor at that point. --said that "we come quote ,we," meaning the reporters "don't believe that." it took a while to catch up to the truth. musicinterrupt classical with this news? do we let the people who love classical music find refuge in the music? that was not necessarily my decision, but a decision that

had to be made. >> it was a couple days where you had to think about staffing and how to cure your people. talk about that. >> you have two full days of intense reporting in a situation like that, that is really enough. you need a day off. we have staffing on the weekend, but it was all hands on deck. we have lots of hosts to sub in and out. when you are hosting a news show and this is happening in your state, you may not be in newtown reporting, you may not see the families of the but them's, but you are talking about it and hearing about its for four or five hours at a time. that is really rough area that is really rough. i had to think about that. >> you are the community station for newtown. how did that change the choices you made or the dynamic for the station?

you am so glad to hear what say, lieutenant vance, about the press. we tried to be respectful. no one from a personality point of view are aggressive, obnoxious reporters. i am happy about that. i guess i have to say our philosophy is not to get it first, but to get it right. and also because we are part of the community, we are in it for the long haul. i think a respect for people in newtown, we did back off when that was the message we were getting. although we have a satellite truck. we're in it for the long haul. and that earned us credit, i think, and times like now when we are going back and talking to families who want to talk. they are a very nice pr machine, the families in newtown, and have a procedure for getting in touch with people.

and we have been able to talk to some of the families of the but dems now, several -- the families of the victims now, several months later. events andl planning coverage of where are we now. .> images i think for most of us in this room, we relate to an event like sandy hook or sandy hook in particular more through the pictures and images that come in through the still photos and video, more than anything else. we read the stories and the words register, but it is the images that haunt us. you are there as a photographer with choices to make about images. you have done a lot of this kind of stuff. as someone who has had your own experience -- talk about the choices you made and the choices you saw photographers making in howell, where that

goes for you. , thanks forall inviting me and being part of this. i think one of the other reasons that you invited me was the perspective i can bring to this. 35 years of photojournalism professionally, and as you say, in my residents may -- resume covering the world, i have the unique opportunity to do pretty much anything i wanted to for the last 10 years. but doing daily, local journalism. the only thing i can add to this perspective is the perspective of a photojournalist. one of the things they can speak to the background, one of the things i did before leaving was going to darfur, sudan. i was captured there, tortured their, imprisoned. -- i left later, that

the newspaper. it is hard to understand when you become the news, it is entirely a different perspective. that perspective is what gives me this unique view of coming back after having that written about by your own newspaper, being written about by publications, and being the subject of newspaper, magazine, and university studies about this type of thing. .ow, you are a victim now you are what you reported on for -- in my case -- 30 years. i bring this up not so much to talk about me, but i perspective of photojournalist's, because once came back from darfur, that whole different being a subject instead of being a journalist is a different side of the same coin. the reason it is important is the cause i did not want to do

journalism when i came back. i did not want to have anything to do with it. for seven years i did not have much to do with it. the first assignment i did after darfur that was long-term was sandy hook. when i got the call that day, i told friends and editors in new york, i am now ready to come back. for the next story that comes up, please consider me. i got a call from michelle from reuters. mclaughlin was the first independent photojournalist on the scene apart from the "sandy .bee's" photojournalist she told me basically you have to get down there. the hesitation and the first news alert i got, i was at the elementary school here in connecticut. was from news i got

cbs news alerts. it says "shooting in connecticut school. children are victims." and anyone with a child in connecticut school, you think "is that my child?" i called the school and they said they knew nothing about that. then i got calls from editors. "are you available?" i made sure my son was home safely and i went down there late in the afternoon. everything was from the perspective of a parent, a photojournalist, and somebody who left the profession and came back and now brings this perspective of absolute the victims.or so, for me when i got there, and what was really strange -- remember, i have been to all

these countries. i have been in the middle, before anybody went to syria or iraq, all those places, i was there before the united states military got involved. i was there for the reason of getting iconic images that show what is going on so that people will give, you know -- will care about what is going on in the world. in the case of sandy hook, you are walking up that road, and it is quiet. it is not like any other news event i have been to. the trepidation i had walking up that road was, what am i going to find and what am i going to see? and for me frankly, it was like, i do not want to be here. i do not want to do this. i forced myself up that road. i talked to michelle for -- about this. early because i was writing a

book about the perspective of the photojournalist. in many cases, they feel that we are trying to exploit the situation, when in fact we are trying to explain visually what is going on. it is different from what writers do. we do have to be there. we have to be in the middle of things. for us, the news conference is as important. for us, it is important to be there when things are happening. we are sitting there talking and we know parents are coming out after hours and hours of being inside. it is very difficult to photograph those things. it is something -- like i said, most of us do not want to do it. but it is our job. yearsving done it for 35 and having taken seven years off, after boston, after aurora, after columbine, after sandy hook, i am more convinced than

ever that photojournalism lays a vital role in understanding not only what happened, but connecting us as communities to what has happened. what i found in sandy hook was a city of sorrow, that when you walked up that day, the wasence -- the silence deafening. i know that is an overstatement, but it was. >> as a photographer, how did you engage with that silence? what choices did you make dax >> again, i did not get there in the first to 20 minutes. my colleagues that they get in the first half-hour, as i understand it, talking to michele and chloe from "the hartford current --courant," they were across the street. they were trying to be as

respectful as possible. they did not want to walk up and shoot a wide angle of someone who found out a loved one just died. on the other hand, some pictures that were taken were exactly that. people finding out they just lost a loved one. it is heart-wrenching not only to see that, but it is very difficult to photograph that. not only from my purse that, the -- not onlyee men from my perspective, but from the three women i talk to. i think what they felt -- what is so different about sandy hook is we knew they were six- year-olds. we knew they were children. this was not purging attack were a 20-year-old could run away or even a 17-year-old at columbine. this was so far afield from what we are used to. the most well read and the most experienced folks, spokesperson for the

state police or the politicians -- i cannot imagine what it was .o see what is going on inside there were photographers, by the way talking about it. i am not going to talk bad about new york, but there are -- there is pressure to get to the scene. the rest of us looked at them like, not here. you are not going to try to sneak into the scene. not with us watching. not with us nearby. in connecticut, we are not going to do that. you are not going to sneak into the scene. again, you are talking about most of us are extremely respectful and the situation. they shot from across the street. the next day, people were coming up, and very quietly placing , trees, teddy bears

ornaments, photographs, poems, all sorts of things. that is one of the things we photographed and again with long lenses. there are exceptions to that. by and large, most photographers were back away. at one point a woman would not come to the memorial because she was afraid of all the press that was there. an ap photographer came up and said, you guys, she wants to put this teddy bear here. can you just not photograph her? you would expect some photojournalist to say, i'm not abiding by that. .ut we did everybody stopped. he went and helped her up, sat down, laced the teddy bear there, and he actually prayed with her. no one photographed that scene. it was different than almost anything i have ever been at.

there is almost to this out-of- control atmosphere where everyone is freelancing and flying and choosing and doing what ever they can to photographs and do their stories. but the fact of the matter is in this instance, i think everybody recognized that this was a historic massacre on a level we have never seen and hopefully will never see again. but from the perspective of a photojournalist, we are there to get the images, what it looks like. and those images do become part of history. and that is what we're trying to do. >> we are going to go in a minute to the room. i want to ask you. i want to go down the room, go down the line line here and have you quickly say maybe the best thing you saw or experienced a journalist doing and the thing that really was the worst thing you saw.

and then we can come back and talk about it a little more. i want to make sure we get to the room. best thing, worst thing. >> the best thing i think is over time the consideration granted me and others by serious journalist to really wanted to have a conversation about how are things going, what is the story here, do you have 15 minutes to spend with me, can i make an appointment to come and see you? maybe you can send me comments and writing. i understand -- they understood the pressure i was under. not a costing me as i am going from spot to spot to meet with a family or try to do something that needed to be done in the town. the worst is the flipside of that consideration shown by those who were very respectful of my time. the flipside is the pursuit that i experienced by some journalists, the parking in my

driveway, calling my cellular phone, calling my husband, hauling my son who lives in manhattan, saying "can you give me access to your mom?" that pursuit was overwhelming. what i think journalists do not understand, in a small town like newtown, we do not have the communications office or a division we can hand this off too. i am the face of the government, but i am also the face that journalists will try to get the official line from. it was not uncommon for me to go into the building at 730 in the having reporters waiting for me to comment. the bad thing is the pursuit. the good thing is that most analysts learned the best way to get information was to treat me with that level of consideration, ask for my comments, ask for an

appointment, ask me to send something in writing. the quick, be clear, the focused, and move on. >> lieutenant, best choice, worst mistake tax -- worst ?istake >> the consideration given to members of the community, this horrific criminal event. yes, it was a criminal event. and i think we treated the press leak willie. abc did not have it over nbc and so forth. hadade sure that if i something to release, it was released at that location and they all got it all at the same time once it was to be released. and i think -- i cannot really say anything negative. there were questions after the queue and day, after each press conference, there were

questions that i will simply say were inappropriate. i wanted to hear what they were looking for and i wanted to say, we are not going to discuss us out, just to help because journalists will be trying to learn from this, what were those questions that were inappropriate at that moment. >> a description of the scene, location of the scene. honestly, i can understand their inquisitiveness. i truly can't. it was inappropriate for us to double jet -- it was inappropriate for us to diebold jet at the time. at that time. they got it. i cannot say that enough. they got it. >> naomi, the best thing you admired and the most problematic thing? >> i think the reporters rose to the occasion. in addition to my field

reporters, i am thinking of a producer who is 22 or 23 years old who just went all out, bringing me tapes from the field and dealing with phone calls and -- talk about rising to the occasion in many ways. of the same mistakes other news outlets made right off the bat. incorrect facts about who the shooter was, whether the mother worked out the school. we relied on associated press for that. i do not know what we would have toe in retrospect except wait with so many facts. but it was a ross decision to make of the time -- a rough decision to make at the time. one thing struck me was how much the media from all over the world was calling us and relying on us to transmit information and how wrong some of these

people were. all they got were the rumors through twitter, facebook, whatever they were looking at. was toy at that point correct information. my reporters were getting woken up at 3:00, 4:00 in the morning from people halfway across the world. we serve this other function which was not only to eliminate our listeners, but to keep the rumors tempted down. >> brad, briefly, best choice, worst choice? >> i think the scene i described before was the best one. that is something that michelle told me about. i described it as if i was there. i was not there when that teddy bear was wrought and the photojournalist prayed with the woman. again, the sources for that are impeccable, and i think that is one of the things you just do not think of photojournalist

doing, setting down their cameras and helping out, although i have seen it around the world many, many times. the rest of it is an part of the -- this is as generational thing, but the rumor mill. we wereexactly what talking about with so many things wrong with social media. you can see this with austen. -- with boston. was it the daily post? >> it was the daily post. >> you have to look at the source on which it is coming. for me, this is one of the photojournalism is important. people say it is easier than ever to make a picture.

it is. but the fact of the matter is in most cases documentary photojournalism is still looked upon as a document of truth. >> ok. we will come back to the social media questions in a way in a while. let's go to the room with the mikc. what we will do for the sake of cameras is take a couple andtions from the side -- identify yourself if you would. >> mike patrick. we speak all the time. this is a question for you. this goes back to the rumor mill thing. isn there is a rumor that widespread and rampant, like the one about the mother teaching at the school, does the state police feel a or pressure or anything to spend time with the press correcting that or saying, listen, i know this is something

that is in the media, but this is wrong. here is what we know. >> sure, absolutely. i had a partner from newtown who was with me all the time, because i never put my toe in newtown prior to this tragedy, to be perfectly honest. there was a lot of information i was not aware of. that was one of the human days q&a's. unfortunately, some of that stuff was tweeted all over the place and it took quite a while before i could stand there and say there was no affiliation with the school. that was confirmed by the first selectwoman's office, the board of education, the superintendent of schools. we were able to quell the rumors. there was another thing out there was the identity of the

shooter. by the way, is name i will not repeat until the day i die. i understand the shooter was so and so. that was wrong. that was wrong. i was able to stand up without a unifying the shooter and simply say that is incorrect information. i can emphatically say that name is incorrect and should not be used. we have a tentative identification we are not prepared to release at this time. you do want to quell the rumors. that is the reason why i would take questions after every press conference to see what information was out there and do what we could. we want to be timely, but we want to be accurate. >> an interesting question related to that for us -- journalism, i think, as rumors are coming out, be it through social media or the old- fashioned way, do we not have a responsibility to verify what we are going to publish?

to we have a responsibility to challenge bad information? interesting question. i will take one more from this side of the room. yes? hi. i guess this question is for pat and lieutenant vance. i was wondering where you briefed the families individually. how did you communicate with the families and keep them informed ahead of the press? >> i think both of us can respond to that. he come to this from different respective's. first of all, i think it was a stroke of genius to assign a police officer to each of the families. that only did it provide rejection from any potential onslaught of media, since their names were eating revealed, but

-- were being revealed, but it provided us with an opportunity to communicate with the families. that is what my office did. we used that as a vehicle to get information to rectally to the families. we would communicate either with lieutenant vance or someone knowing that the information would get to the families, clearly, consistent. it would be fair. it would be communicated in the appropriate fashion. that is how we used to that position. >> as i alluded before, but the most difficult things we had to do from the criminal investigative point of view was to inform the families, and there was always a way to do it. we had to do it as quickly as we possibly could. understand as i said before, children do not have identification in their pocket.

we have to have a positive identification. we cannot go in and say, i think little johnny is deceased. , yes, to be able to say we have located your son or daughter and tragically the child has lost their life. in that time, and that was hard to do, we were able to say to be 26 families who lost loved ones that we believe your loved one is deceased. we got things done, which i will not elude to. terrible bring this news to the families. -- the governor was the one who made that first announcements to all of the folks in the back room. the other vehicle i used, by the way, to correspond with the

families was a robo call. that practice began months ago, years ago with the horrific weather events that we had. tois common in my community use that as a vehicle to get a message to all of the residence in our community. almost everyone has signed on to the robo call service with their landline and their cell phone. that is a method that i use. >> we will take a question from this side of the room. anyone dax somebody -- anyone? somebody? a room full of journalists? >> i have a little bit of a sore throat. this is for both of you, but also for anybody. the size of your town, the tomunity made a difference

the response for the community and the response for the media. because i am thinking of what happened in boston and what you are describing as so difference. i am just wondering, boston being a big city, did that make a difference? >> from my perspective, yes. it was overwhelming to have that much media in our town. and the president spoke so intrusive sometimes. residents would be calling my office saying, can't you make them leave? can't you make them go home? it is overwhelming to be inf three newspaper every day -- to be in every newspaper every day. it was wearing us down. so much so that i was worried about the spirit of our community. i think at some point we had as much media as we do

have residence. there are 28,000 residents. they turn aat they could not corner. they would be in the retail area. they were obviously at the memorials. again, trying to be very respectful. i do agree with lieutenant vance that the media really got it with the exception of a very few. but it is hard to be a journalist looking for a story without being intrusive. you want to talk to people. you want to take photographs. you want to ask hard questions. we want to be respect all that the journalist cap editors that are saying to go get that story. but it is overwhelming for us. we are a small town and a close- knit community as well. >> just to dovetail on that, when we were giving out information relative to the investigation, the less -- the ,ast press conference we had

we talked about how are we going to get the media to go home? i mean that. they were based in the community and the community was overwhelmed. i have got to tell you. i will say it again. they got it. they went home. they knew there was no other information coming out from these lips. everything would be done electronically. and packed up their stuff a majority went home. they went home. was mutualink it respect. one thing i can say about the community -- the community was phenomenal. phenomenal. there were people who would walk up to troopers doing their duty because they felt they were coffeed. or under the community came together like nothing i have ever seen in my life.

>> you are the community journalist. this is your community, naomi. how do you understand your station's role, how you are being appreciated? how did folks relate to you? this inere breaking dealing with it over time? >> there were a couple comments about how respect a we were with the -- how respectful we were with the coverage. and we were able to find a source, because there would be someone who lives next to someone. you just have those immediate ways to get people to talk to you about the news. we got compliments from our listeners about our coverage. >> let's leave it there. all of ourhank panels for beginning our conversation today by taking us back to a place i know they probably would rather not go

back to. it took some courage to be having this honest conversation today. so, lieutenant, naomi, brad, pat -- thank you. let's take a 10 -- -- let's take a 10 minute break. there is a women's room immediately to your left as you go out. halfway down the hall there is a unisex restroom. there is an authorized men's room all the way down in the easement. 10 minutes. thank you, folks. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] 's 2016 coverage begins tonight. vice president biden is the keynote speaker at a fund- raising dinner that is viewed as a start to the campaign season. we will also be bringing you

coverage from the annual silver fund-raising dinner. the keynote speaker there is senator ted cruz from texas. c-span's road to the white house 2016 coverage gets underway live tonight at 7:30 p.m. eastern. president obama on the second to of his three-day trip latin america spoke to students about how to be added to its of some americans toward mexicans have tapped into stereotypes and called for greater unity moving forward. >> despite all the bonds we share and the people who claim heritage on both sides, our attitudes sometimes hold to those stereotypes. thisamericans always see

depicted in violations of border crossing. and let's a minute. many mexicans feel that america disrespects mexico or is trying to impose itself on mexican sovereignty. in both countries, such distortions create misunderstandings. they make it harder for us to move forward together. i have come to mexico to say i think it is important to recognize some realities. including the impressive comrades that we have in mexico. [applause] president's of the remarks earlier today. you can see the entire event tonight in prime time or you can watch it anytime on our website at www.c-span.org.

student can competition had entries from over 3500 students on the theme "a message to the president." ithad discussions about why should be the president stop rorty. >> i think it would be a great subject to follow. i kind of followed his life. >> at the time i had an introduction to law course, and i learned there was a double standard for those under 18. i was sort of into troubled waters, if you well, and i realized we do not have a say in the creation of the debt, but we are going to have to pay it off. we picked infrastructure and the growing need for public transportation in this country. -- how can i say

it? excited about the topic. when i explained it to them, they caught on. and it was suggested that we should add highest the rail into the topic as well. >> more from the top three student can winners sunday morning at 7 a.m. the eastern on c-span. law schoolersity had a conference about the fatal shooting of 17-year-old african-american trayvon martin. a piece onw wrote the case last year called "the curious case of trayvon martin." this is about an hour 15 minutes. [applause]

>> wait a minute. [laughter] anyone has ever introduced me and found that magazine i had in college. very well. thanks for having me here. thanks for that fantastic introduction. so, today i'm going to talk to you about what i call journalism and justice and how those things have coincided in , orcase of trayvon martin overlapped in the case of trayvon martin. here allu have been day, you do not need a refresher on this course. if you have not, maybe you do. so, for what ever reason i will give a little bit of a run through of what facts we know in the case. on february 26, trayvon martin, 17-year-old boy from miami gardens, is in stamford,

florida with his father. they are there to visit the father's girlfriend, who lives in a gated community. this is a gated community, not like what some people think of gated communities. a gate that stops cars. you can walk around the gate. in trouble gotten at school again. he has been suspended from school for the third time. before he was suspended for tardiness and graffiti. this time he was suspended for having a bad time with traces of marijuana. has had enough. he took trayvon with him so he would not be on the streets of miami while he was suspended, and he also says that he wanted to talk some sense into that boy and you know there's nothing like a good road trip for a good

heart to heart and the car. on the night of the 26, trayvon is that the father's girlfriend 's house with her son, his name is chad. the way the story goes as the father and the girlfriend are out to dinner. trayvon decides he wants iced tea from the store. it is not really on the corner. he asked chad if he wanted anything from the store. chad says, yes. he wanted skittles. there is a light rain. trayvon has his wooded sweatshirt on. he put the hood up on his shirt. trayvon goes into the store. he pays for the items. he is seen to motion in some way. -- some people have said maybe he was asking for something behind the counter. we do not know if that was the case or not. he leaves the store.

he is takingck, his time. according to his family's lawyers, he is on the phone with a girlfriend. which would make sense. you know how those kids are. the 19-year-old, they walk slow, they talk about nothing. having fun with your girl. [laughter] he catches the attention of george zimmerman a resident of the gated community, a member of this neighborhood watch program. there have been burglaries in this community. as zimmerman himself arranged the neighborhood watch program to combat the crimes in the neighborhood that have happened. they in turn, the neighbors in turn, designate zimmerman as the captain of the swatch group. .- of this watch group

when the police come to explain the guidelines, they make it very clear and neighborhood watch volunteer did not have the least hours. should not be armed. should not be vigilantes. is he the president, he is the person who invited them and is the coordinator of the watch group. the night he encounters trayvon martin he is wearing a holster on his waistband with a nine millimeter gun. tose who call the police report trayvon described him as "a real suspicious guy." he described him as a guy who appears to be up to no good, like he is on drugs or something. he even identifies him as being probably in his late teens. when they asked him to describe him further on a racial basis, zimmerman submits that he looks

like he is black. zimmerman's father, just for the record ismmerman's his father is white and his mother is hispanic. he asks the person on the phone how long it will take the police to arrive because.:"0 the program tells trayvon to run. he says no but he will walk fast. zimmerman tells the dispatcher that this guy is running and zimmerman who has been watching from his vehicle exits to follow trayvon. this is beyond the bounds of what the neighborhood watch a volunteer has been instructed to do by the police and he is the captain of that watch group. theeaves that vehicle with

guns strapped to his body, which he has been told is not something you should do. the dispatcher asked zimmerman if he was following the boy. he said he is and the dispatcher says he does not need him to do that. few happens over the next minutes is murky but also the all important part of this case. somehow trayvon and is imminent encounter each other and engaged in a physical altercation. it ends with the zimmerman shooting trayvon in the chest. with this account to the extent that even exist are sketchy and in some cases contradictory. when the police arrived they take zimmerman into custody. trayvon's body is tagged as a john doe and taken to the medical examiner's office. at the police precinct zimmerman is interviewed.

the lead investigator did not buy his version of the story. he wants to charge zimmerman with something in the boy cost debt. he is overruled by his supervisors and zimmerman is released with no charge. as far as the police are concerned that is the end of the case. when tracy martin returns home with his girlfriend trayvon is not there. tracy calls his cell phone repeatedly. but there is no inter. -- there is no answer. what is this case resonates so much for so much of this country? roped in "thes wall street journal," nationally nearly half of all murder victims are black and the overwhelming majority of those black people are killed by other

black people. where is the march for them? that black on black crime in general and black lives being taken by other black people in particular is a tragedy. any life taken is a tragedy. this case, for many people, was not about an extraordinary debt. it was about the extraordinary inequity in the pursuit of justice and the misapplication of the presumption of guilt. man who wasut a found standing over a dead body and was able to talk his way out of a police prison. who was deserving of the presumption of guilt or innocence in this case? the dead boy with the candy? or the man standing over his

body with the gun? furthermore, on a pure storytelling level the story had all the elements of a great story. guns and murder, an unarmed boy and a suspicious man, racial profiling and threat responses, it particularly raised some tough questions. findid george zimmerman trayvon martin suspicious? what about trayvon martin provoked what appeared to be a threat response in george zimmerman, even though he was armed and inside of a vehicle. he pursue the boy when a 911 operator instructed him not to? why did he get out of the car and why did he take his gun when

he did. house of defensive are you when you are the one in the pursuit? who initiated the altercation? who cried for help? did trayvon's body show evidence of struggle? what moves zimmerman to use lethal force? in the visualing an uncomfortable truth about what makes this particular case resonates are the images the first emerged of the both of them. george zimmerman is not a flattering image of him. and the image of trayvon martin very 80 very handsome and young looking boy. to understand this is to

understand it in the context of what media critics have called syndrome."ite woman for people who do not understand it -- in the cases of people who are either missing or dead the extraordinary amount of coverage ,oes to people who are female attractive,oung, and disproportionately of high income. think about the last time you woman whoge for any was not young. think about the last time you saw that kind of coverage for

any man regardless of race whatsoever. about all of the other kind of people who exist in the world who do not fit in that category. see if you can match the coverage that you get when the victim or the missing person checks all of those boxes. it is very hard to find a corollary. that is what media critics call the phenomenon. obviously trayvon is not wealthy, white, or a woman. think that phenomenon gets to is the issue of traditional ideas of beauty in society and the overlap between overlap andnd value

our need to protect and defend that as a source of innocence. represent wasid young, handsome, and presumably innocent. -- it isntext of that a sort of phenomenon -- the "young, innocent, a black boy phenomenon." the one thing that people do not talk about is we see this handsome young man. till's facend it before the beating. he is a strikingly handsome young man. what that beauty " judge does is that iffies out rate -- the quota does is amplify

outrage. if there is a beauty " chinookan layer on top of the empathize -- beauty the biggest thing was the destruction of beauty. a gorgeous young man is reduced to this image. that plays into the zimmerman- trayvon martin case. that image of trayvon as a young and innocence. who, in addition to the facts of the case, that innocence is something we want to protect as a society.

i'll ask you academics to go on and figure that out. i think we have to consider that as an amplifier. another issue raised is about social media and modern journalism. the closest comparison to this may be the o.j. simpson case and it is kind of reverse of this case. during that case there was no social media. there was a facebook recorder. there were no real blocks -- there was no facebook or twitter. there were no real blogs. i first heard about this case as people started to tweet to me and say, "are you going to say something about this case?" that point whot trayvon martin is and what this case is. people continue to put that into

my twitter feed. justeek on a flute i googled his name. just googled i his name. it seemed like an interesting case but i am not sure what i could bring to it. i am not from florida. what can i write from my perch in manhattan? there are some strange things about this case, including this idea that there is absolutely no charge. i got an interview with his mother. adecided to write about it on

personal, parental level. i have kids at about that age. another issueto raised in this particular case, the role of adversity and the media. local florida newspaper intelligence coverage the only people who seem to give any significant coverage on a national level were relatively young, black men like me. at the huntington post, thoselantic -- some of writers seemed to have burned with a personal passion in this case. wasirst column on the case unapologetically personal. wrote, "as an i father to black teenage boys this case hits close to home.

a man with a gun and an itchy fingers will find them suspicious, passions will run .ot and blood will run cold the law will provide an insufficient to south my pain. this is the curse of black boys in america, running the risk of being caught in the cross hairs of someone who crosses the line." other writers followed with a great personal stories. two days after mccollum the washington post wrote, "it reminds me of a list of -- when that was replaced with a reality that my mother married in the 1980's." do not run in public if someone thinks you are suspicious. do not run while carrying

something that somebody thought he sold. do not fall back on place unless they give you a reason to take a jail. told the new york times, "there is a certain degree of understanding that comes from minorities just because we have lived it." are black men in our 30's and 40's. all of us are born after the civil rights movement. were part of the crack epidemic and the war on drugs. andof us are of that age what would have happened to this particular case if we did not have the platforms that we had? another issue is partisan influence.

ideological coverage and public perception. on march 23, responded to a request of comment, president obama called it a tragedy and said what he thought about the case he thought about his own kids and then he said, "if i had , if the case wasn't already in fused with enough race and politics it would be. this is no longer of a simple case of a boy in florida. this is a case of liberal and conservative world views. many liberal our rules -- argue for justice with a lynch mob mentality. thereg the oj trial, nbc.no fox news, ms

people got their news from newspapers, network new stations, and cnn headline news. places are trying the best they could to be objective. that has changed. the lawyers of both sides of ofs case took the advantage that change and saw out sympathetic media coverage. trayvon's family hired a pr agent. when i had an interview with his mom had to go through pr agent. his lawyers and many liberal commentators began discussing the case. directly responded to fox news and gave his first interview. that was his venue of choice.

to the degree that there was different parts of the media covered this case recovered it in different ways. -- this case they covered it in different ways. were as many democrats following the case closely as republicans and more than twice as many republicans thought the ase was getting to o much coverage. and then there are cases where the media crossed line completely. a producer for altering the tape. , "i think the hoodie is as responsible for

trayvon's debt as much as george zimmerman was." -- this is is the classic "rape argument." there is nothing that you can wear that is an invitation for someone to rape or kill you to -- or kill you. according to conservative site, "the left is in a spin now. arms."e in i never met a member of the new democratic party. i have never met anyone who has defended anyone in the new black panther party.

some outlets like npr's news outlet labels zimmerman as white although it is unclear how he self identified. hisr people describe parents' background and leaving out the racial designation. in my column i simply put it, "trayvon is black and zimmerman is not." i had no idea how this guy identified himself. hispanics can be of any race. you do not have to identify yourself that way. it is up to you and no one knows. everyone can identify george zimmerman as a white guy playing into racial constructs. an insider had to publish this correction after posting an image from a neo-not the site.

-nazi site. somebody show this image earlier. there are images circulating online that are supposedly of the pictures of trayvon martin. it was embedded with other pictures purportedly to be trayvon. the miami news times points out that it is not trayvon martin. the images out of the website included those photos. we took the second after finding out it was not trayvon martin. there is no question as to whether the other was trayvon. we have removed both. stop going to the neo-nazi

website. [laughter] the other picture with what appears to be travyon martin with grills in his mouth. grills is some cosmetic dental jewelry that you snap in over your teeth. this is supposed to suggest he is a thug. you have to reduce the need quotient to produce sympathy. to make him into a monster visually. you reduce sympathy. tory attempt at that seemed have fallen short to me. that is a skateboarder in my neighborhood. it does not say "black t" to me.

this past summer we had a gold medal swimmer on the stand with grills in his mouth. "thug."aid suggestme they try to that the things that he wore suggested he was not worthy of fallsast february 26th truer because there is nothing you can wear that gives somone license to shoot you in the chest. discuss thent to question this case raises of advocacy and activism in journalism. i am an opinion credit.

i develop arguments in advance when there is no pretense of being a straight news reporter in my job. i get paid to have an opinion. even at the time the views on this can differ. money,"ague told "fast "i am wary of the idea of being an activist for crusader. i am an advocate as a journalist but there is a faint, almost wondering line between advocacy and activism. part of becomes so much a cause that you lose of the activity. there can be a tendency to start speaking for a cause rather than for yourself. i try to navigate this terrain but frankly there is a lot of blurry lines.

especially when i am writing a lot about -- i sometimes worry about where i ." in relation to that line that is a tricky thing brous. com -- tricky thing for us. how much are we speaking for ourselves and how much do we become a front for a cause? oft is what causes a lot conservation in this particular case because some people sought out the opportunity to become cause.nt person for a we are very wary of that idea. there is a stark difference between opinion writers and reporters. i think that is relatively well understood in newspapers.

the number of people reading newspapers continues to drop. the number of people who said they got their news yet they fell from 56% in 1991 to 30% in 2010. ingly people say they got their news online. andline between news opinion online can get even more blurred. many people cannot go to a home page and navigate from there to the opinions section. they follow a link that somebody sent them on twitter and a just land there. they pay very little attention to where they are, they just know they are on the site. in the heavy social media environment news and opinions often live side-by-side. hard bishop journalists, opinion

journalists, activists are equalized in social media and to many local readers and viewers they begin to blend together. many of these people often have open exchanges on social media. withl talk back-and-forth straight news reporters. people on the outside to see two people that they consider to be journalists going back and forth and exchanging ideas and not understanding that in the social media world that news reporter has real good strength on what to say. i have nothing. re-tweetin factr something i said, not because they endorse it because they want people to see it. this olcott's very blurry in the public consciousness. -- this all gets very blurry in the public consciousness. the people stood on the same

panels in television news. everybody is going to this channel -- to this panel format in news. there will be a strict news reporter sitting next to an advocate, sitting next to somebody who works for the romney campaign and obama anpaign and somebody who is opinion journalists. we're supposed to understand that these people are not coming from the same place. that is not the way that people understand it when they're watching television. one controversy that emerged from the trayvon market ks was martin case was over reverend al sharpton. i do not know where that line is. always been an activist.

i do not think that people understand that those are different rules. i think that muddies the water when it comes to the public. line inled with this this case as well. i try to be as transparent with my readers about the struggle. -- ie first column i wrote described that response in a way i described to you earlier. the tracks the block how media evolution is changing said that the growth of opinion journalism courses have an impact. that impacts the very meaning of objectivity. me and, "been out of respect for journalism is much greater than in the past.

media format with the expression journalists and multiplies. one problem is what the idea of droll some objectivity should be emphasized in this changing curriculum -- the idea of journalism of activity should be emphasized in this changing .urriculum there is a trend towards teaching a respectable journalism that draws conclusions and argues for interpretations. previouslenge as the governments of of the activity as an ideal. that is a huge shift. previous government's of objectivity as an ideal -- anernance of objectivity as ideal.

that is a huge shift. coveragenbc's is now opinion driven material. the only place that has about the same balance of opinion and straight news is cnn > that is a real shift of how we are getting our news. the appetite for neutrality is changing. we want to live in a cocoon where we just hear our own thoughts reinforced over and over again. we have to ask what that says about us as a nation and how this reflects on this particular case where people tune into particular places so they can confirm whether or not they believe that zimmerman was innocent or guilty.