legacy as a asting first lady? >> she showed that you can be an excellent mother and supportive and gracious hostess and be regardless anybody of your social strata into the white house. she didn't bend to the whims of society. she didn't change her look. didn't change her style. shows that a woman can be a woman on her own. transformational or transitional? >> transitional. her at do you believe lasting legacy should be? to understand the courage it takes to hold that position. hat she brought her own memories and her own love of well as nto this as support and respect for her husband. black and to lita of culverson to great folks

rutherford b. hayes. thanks for their continuing help. that is our look tonight at the and times of lucy hayes.

monday when xt we'll focus on garfield. her husband, president james a. garfield was made her home he an early version of a presidential library and worked to sustain his legacy. chester arthur who turned to her sister, mary arthur mcelroy to be hostess. lucretia garfield mcelroy.arthur c-span, c-span 3, and

c-span radio. eastern.. our website has more about the "welcome ies including to the white house" produced by our partner. chronicles life in the tenure of each of the first ladies. ed kigsfering a special of the book, "first ladies of the united states of america," a and portrait of each first lady including commenting from the historians and the michelle obama on the role of first ladies throughout history. $12.95 plus shipping at c-span.org/products. ceremony emorial honors a journalist who died stories. the abduction rescue while reporting in syria. hosted the 30-minute event.

>> good morning, i'm jim duff. rededication of the memorial. visitors 3 million have seen the soaring memorial 2,244 aid tribute to journalists worldwide who died the news. round the world, journalists place them in danger during the day. targeted. others will get too close to the danger. the wrong may be in place at the wrong time, most are professionals taking risks.ted

they pay with their lives for doing their jobs. the journalists' memorial bears the names of reporters, hotographers, editors, broadcasters, and others who have died in the line of duty. yoor we make sure they are remembered. names ar we added 82 new to the memorial. 82 were killed in 2012. n additional six died in previous years. added to the being memorial this morning. friends, mily, colleagues who travelled housands of miles who join us for this remembrance of loved

ones. we welcome back the families and journalists added to the memorial in previous years. helping all of you for us pay tribute to these journalists. they are truly among democracy's heroes. i would like to introduce our vice chairman of the board, who will fey, introduce our very special guest morning.this shelby? brokaw, great sage of nbc weeks ago for two a program about our new jfk camelot.creating tom took the time to talk about two things. the first was to salute the al newhart, the creator of "usa today" but who ust passed away and whose memorial we will also celebrate this week here at the newseum is in very large part his

creation. also took the time to engel.ichard to say that's almost an understatement. richard is the chief correspondent of nbc news and in face is ars his indelibly associated with hundreds of thousands of coverage iewers with of the iraq war, all of the iraq war. and with the arab spring and in egypt, springs lib libya, and syria. e's won seven news and documentary emmys and the winner of the citation for the personal diary of the iraq war.

even these laurels did not give correspondent e we see today. he's truly one for the history books. nother famous young correspondent, winston churchill said history would be kind to intended to write it. richard did the same, not that kindness.any extra he wrote his first book, "a the hornet's nest" about his life before, during, and after the iraq war. the book drew praise from chris atthews from msnbc saying of his descriptions of combat in -- this matthews way is hemingway country. is mr. more remarkable engel's own story. that of a young man who dyslexia while growing up in new york city. he went to stanford. of bravado and decided to become a foreign correspondent by

cairo without, get this, without knowing a lick of arabic. he settled in the poor to learn the fabled arab street from the ground up. instead of enjoying the luxury enjoyed by some correspondents. he taught himself the language bit-by-bit. we see him struggle with early newspaper giggles and freelance some latter day benjamin franklin, finally up in jerusalem for abc ins before going back to nbc 2003. richard engel reporting from baghdad set the standard. the only american to cover it all in the early days of vickery to the bitter slide civil chaos to the ultimate successes of the surge. that story in another

my liant book, war journal, five years in iraq which will be historians decades from now. at one point, he notes the stages all l reporters go through while covering war zones. four stages seem particularly relevant and particularly poignant. one -- i'm invinceble. nothing can hurt me. superman. stage two -- what i'm doing is dangerous. get hurt over here. be careful. stage three -- what i'm doing is really dangerous. i'm probably going to get hurt over here no matter how careful i am. and probability and time

are working against me. stage four -- here too long. i'm going die over here. it's a matter of time. the game too long. last september the world held breath wondering if richard engel reached stage four and beyond. were taken captive in syria, after five days, they relatively unharmed. exhale. a rare thing when a war orrespondent's news article rates a story in "the washington post." but when they went back to syria december, grim days in it was the story in the nation's capital and beyond. richard and i both once worked the network, abc, where reigning patron was the legendary superproducer, ruen. ong ago, david brinkley was

introduced to his network saying we're in gentlemen, the presence of greatness. oday i say we're also in the presence of greatness. our single honor it is to have ichard engel of the commemoration of the newseum's journalist memorial. thank you, richard. >> i am truly without words. that was too much and undeserved. i'm still lucky, i'm here. talking about the people on this list and thinking about them and thinki inin ining about their l did and why they did it. good morning, it's an honor to be here today. is a somber cast but one that is dearly important to me. band, our little

little roaming tribe that vagabonds through the war zone takes notes and pictures right away is getting smaller. off. being killed great foreign correspondents are us.onger with i miss marie. i knew her well. she was feisty and funny and really good at what she did. and i remember marie from lebanon, libya. i remember her from everywhere, really. and while it may seem there are many correspondents running world, bringing the news, there aren't. the real ones, the ones who last are actually ut, quite a small group. tripoli ember marie as was falling and qaddafi was on wasn't and the city functioning at all, we found a hotel right in the center of tripoli. old beautiful arab mansion with a court-yard in the center and the famous park of

marcus areel yous. we decided to rent out the entire thing. shortages and there was little food and water and gunmen everywhere. but a chaotic time. we at nbc news had taken this and stock piled it full of upplies, food and gasoline and generators. fresh fruit. tv people know how to take care of themselves. we hooked up the internet. day, marie and other print reporters knocked on the door to see how they're doing. but, of course, they wanted a meal. in.e all let them beer.n had we had a big dinner. veryone -- a lot of laughs and everyone was smiling. this is the most important thing. we're in our element. we were there. were among friends and

probably among the most important family we've got when you live on the road. anthony was also there that night. later that a year syria.as killed in i would like to acknowledge family here tonight and i would like to acknowledge the bahraini journalist who i also understand is in the tonight. if there are other relatives you. sorry i didn't know marie died after that iconic dinner at the hotel in tripoli. of how smalln idea it is, i was on the way to the house.fe

i got the call, marie has been illed, a french photographer was also in the safe house and was also killed. we got the notice, don't go, they're dead. syria has been a horrible experience. that took another friend of mine who was at dinner. of the greatest arabist of our times. he as not just a reporter, was a national asset. what upsets me the most is he was at the top of his game when died. he had a new job. he had a new wife. coming book that was out. a book that sits on my shelf. read it.ring myself to he feels having an impact. syria took him too. these are greedy wars. they take and give nothing back.

marie and oned anthony in detail because i knew them personally. journalists killed in 2012 didn't work for big news "the new yorklike times". them lost their lives in places like somalia and syria. if you look, you can understand why. somalia hadn't had a functioning government able to dominate all the territory. it is now trying to build one. it's a strong central a dictatorship now collapsing to anarchy. trying to he people report from some of these places and understand why walking stories cang to get cost your life.

i thought i would be added to this list. i got out. gun fight and i rescued and escaped. i returned to syria last week first time. instead of having my name added i had the honor of paying respect to my colleagues it and i would like to thank the newseum for privilege. we do it?on is why do adventure? makeere are easier ways to a living than doing this. we do it to understand the world and how it changes. move like thes to earth's plates.

theyons build and suddenly snap with violent political change and we go to where the cracks are to see how the plates fitting together. we do it so innocents have a voice. tv pundits are wrong. and we decided we wanted to do of time on r slice this planet. many of you know there has been some controversy surrounding this event. like to address that. been some critics of included working for hamas organizations and state publications. agree.ly there's a distinction and several of the people on the ist are not strictly journalists but political activists that worked in the media. a camera and rry notebook doesn't make you a journalist. it has the responsibility to no matter what it

is, even if the story hurts your cause. journalists? no. but they wanted to bring down a dictator with words and images silenced them.r trying to do something noble. they were speaking out about oppression. died trying to quench a thirst for freedom. every year, it always seems to go up. the landscape is so much more confusing. handful war one, only a of journalists documenting the front lines. they wore uniforms at the time. than not, they were

military officers specifically tasked to document a military campaign. calls them army official eyewitnesses now in most don flikts, the front lines gone.ne, the uniforms are it's hard to know who's fighting and for what. and every camera is a cell phone. while today, let me change tone, is no doubt somber. getting aroundof that. there is a way of looking at all quite so sad.sn't i know a lot of journalists. if spend all of my time, basically, with foreign correspondents in the field breathing the act of news gathering. nd none of them could think of doing anything else. they don't know how to do anything else. they don't want to do anything else. the people we're talking about today died doing what they loved. anthony loved the middle east,

marie loved reporting. when she was on a story and died in their element. a computer,k behind they die in the line of duty with their boots on, with their pencils in hand. they should be remembered and celebrated. and honored for that. so thank you very much. [ applause ] >> the 88 individuals we honor togethery were brought fellowship none of them

up.ld have chose some of them were known to millions on the nightly news. some of them were in an anymore ty. ome of them knew of impending danger. but some of them were surprised. united on thread that all of them was their commitment fact that sm and the they left us all too soon. if a journalist's mission is to shine light where there is we ness, let the light emanate be a test mate to the 88 2,156 othersand the whose company they join today. we will never forget them.

in their memory, and in support journalists working in dangerous places and in difficult situations all over world, i will now read the 88 names of our colleagues who lives and the countries from where they reported.

[reading names] >> in the philippines. in russia. in somalia.

[reading names]

[reading names] in south sudan -- [reading names] in syria -- [reading names]

[reading names]

[reading names]

in tanzania --

in thailand -- 1937, in china -- in 1969, in vietnam. in 1993, in the united kingdom. in 1991, in the united states. 1993 in south africa.

2001, and ireland. they we have a moment of silence for these brave men and women. thank you very much. askedsident obama was about last year's attacks on the u.s. consulate in the targeting of conservative political groups by the irs. from the east room of the white house, this conference with the british prime minister is 30 minutes. >> morning, everybody, please have a seat. i hope you had a wonderful

mother's day. it is always a great pleasure to welcome my friend and partner, prime minister david cameron. we have wonderful memories from when david and samantha visited last year. there was a lot of attention on how i took david to march madness. we went to ohio and we confessed that he still does not understand basketball and i still don't understand cricket. the gride said before, alliance between the united states and the united kingdom is rooted in shared interests and values. it is indispensable to global prosperity. it is also a partnership of the heart. in the united states, we mourn the passing of margaret thatcher, a champion of freedom and liberty in the alliance will carry on today. after the bombings in boston, we americans were grateful for the

support of friends come around the world, particularly those across the atlantic. in a moment of silence, the race was dedicated to boston. it david will be visiting to pay tribute to the victims and first responders. i want to thank you. our two people stand as one. david is here as he prepares to host the g8 next month. i appreciate him updating me on the agenda as it takes shape. the summit will be another opportunity to sustain the global economic recovery with a focus on growth and creating jobs for our people. michelle and i are looking forward to visiting northern ireland. i know it will be a great success under david's fine leadership. we discussed moving on the

transatlantic trade and investment partnership. our extensive trade with the uk is essential. it supports more than 13 million jobs. i want to thank david for his extreme support. i look forward to negotiations with the eu in the coming months. i believe we have a real opportunity to cut tariffs, our jobs, and make all of economies more competitive. with regard to global security, we reviewed our progress in afghanistan were our troops continue to serve with extraordinary courage alongside each other. i want to commend david for his efforts to encourage greater dialogue between afghanistan and pakistan which is critical to regional security. as planned, afghan forces will take the lead across the country soon. u.s., british, and coalition forces will move into a support role. our troops will continue to

come home and the war will and by the end of next year. we work with our partners to make sure that afghanistan is never a haven for terrorists. given our commitment to the middle east peace, i updated david on our efforts and the importance of moving towards negotiations. we reaffirm our support for democratic transitions in the middle east and north africa, including the economic reforms that have to go along with political reforms. of course, we discussed syria and the appalling violence being inflicted on the syrian people. together, we are going to continue our efforts to increase pressure on the assad regine to provide humanitarian aid to the long-suffering syrian people, to strengthen the opposition, and to prepare for a democratic syria without a sorrow shot -- assad. togetherudes bringing people in the regime to agree on a transitional body which

would allow a transfer of power from a sought this governing body. meanwhile, -- from assad to this governing body. we discussed iran where we agree to keep pressure on tehran for its continued failure to follow nuclear regulations. ourlly, we are reaffirming commitment to global development, specifically we are encouraged by the ambitious reforms underway at the global fund to fight aids and malaria where both of our nations are stepping up our efforts. david has made it clear that the g8 summit will be another opportunity to make progress. it so, david, q i very much as

always for your leadership and partnership -- thank you very much as always for your leadership and partnership. it is clear we face a demanding agenda, but at the history of our people show anything it is that we persevere, as one of those on london runners said at the marathon -- we will keep running and keep on doing this. that is the spirit and confidence and resolve that we will continue to draw on as we work together to meet these challenges. david, thank you very much and welcome. >> thank you for the warm welcome. it is great to be back here in the white house. thank you for all you said about margaret hatcher. it was a leisure to welcome so many americans to her funeral in the uk i absolutely echo what you say about the appalling outrage in boston. i look forward to going there to pay my tribute to the people and their courage. we will always stand with you

in the fight against terrorism. thank you for the remarks about the cricket and the basketball. i have not made much progress. i made a bit of progress on baseball. i read a book about it this year. maybe next time we will go on that one. it is good to be back for the first time since the american people return due to office. as you said, the relationship between britain and the united states is a partnership without paradox. day in and day out across the world, our diplomats and intelligence agencies work together. our businesses trade with each other. in afghanistan, our armed forces are defending the stability that will keep us safer. in the economic race, our businesses are doing more than $17 billion of trade across the atlantic every month of every year. in a changing world, our nations share resolve to stand up for democracy, enterprise, and freedom. we discussed many issues today, as the president has said. but me highlight 3 -- the

economy, the g8 thomas and syria. -- g8, and syria. this means dealing with data, restoring stability, getting our economy growing, and seizing opportunities to grow our economies. president obama and i both championed a free trade deal between the european union and the united states. there is a real chance to get the progress marched in time for the g8. the next five weeks are crucial. benefitse the huge this a deal could bring will take ambition and political will. it is worth the effort. it could be worth up to 10 billion pounds per year. we discussed the g8 summit in some details. we met on the shores -- when we meet on the shores five weeks

from today, i hope we have ambitious action for economic growth. we need to make sure everyone shares in the benefits of this openness. justin are advanced economies, but in the developing world to. -- in the developing world, too. we need to make sure that all companies pay their taxes properly and enable citizens to hold their governments. today, we have agreed to tackle the scourge of tax evasion. we need a new mechanism to where multinationals make their money and where they pay their taxes so we can stop those who are manipulating the system unfairly. finally, we discussed the brutal conflict in syria. 18,000 dead.

5 million people forced from their homes. syria's history is being written in the blood of her people and it is happening on our watch. the world urgently needs to come together to bring mckinley to an end. none of us have any interest in seeing more lives lost -- to bring the killing two and and -- to an end. none of us have any interest in seeing more lives lost. we have an urgent window of opportunity before the worst fears are realized. there is no more urgent international task than this. when he to get serious to the table to a national government that could win the consent of all the syrian people. there will be no political progress unless the opposition is able to withstand the onslaught. we will also increase our efforts to support and shape the moderate opposition. britain is pushing for more flexibility in the eu arms embargo and we will double support to the syrian opposition in the coming year. armored vehicles, body armor,

and power generators are helping councils govern the areas they liberate. they are dealing with the influx of refugees. they are caring for trauma injuries. syrian families need clean water and access to food and shelter. there is now, i believe, common ground that whatever our differences, we have the same name -- a stable, inclusive, and peaceful syria free from the scourge of extremism. we now need to get on and do everything we can to make it happen. thank you once again for your warm welcome and our talks today. >> thank you. we have time for a couple of questions. we will start with julie. >> thank you, mr. president. i wanted to ask about the iris and benghazi. when did you first learn that the irs was targeting conservative political groups? do you feel that the irs has betrayed the public trust?

what should the action be? i don't benghazi, e-mails show that that state department seems to be more closely involved with the talking points than first acknowledged. do you think the white house misled its public in shaping the talking points? or do you maintain the assertion that the talking points were not meant to downplay terrorism? is the eu -- if the eu arms embargo and---embargo lapses, are you encouraging president obama to take the same steps? >> lets me take the irs situation first. i first learned about from from the same news reports that i think most people learned about this. i think it was on friday. and, this is pretty straightforward. personnelt, irs engaged in the kind

prac and were intentionally targeting conservative groups, then that is outrageous. there is no place for it. they have to be held fully accountable because the irs as an independent agency requires absolute integrity to rid people have to have confidence that they are applying it in a nonpartisan way -- the laws in a nonpartisan way. you should feel that way regardless of party. i do not care if you are a democrat or a republican. at some point, there will be a republican administration. at some point there will be democratic ones. either way, you do not want the irs ever being perceived to be biased in any -- and anything less than neutral in terms of how they operate.

this is something that i think people are properly concerned about. the ig is conducting its investigation. i will not comment on their specific findings prematurely, but i can tell you that if you have got to the irs operating in anything less than a neutral nonpartisan way, then that is outrageous. it is contrary to our traditions. people have to be held accountable and it has got to be fixed. so, we will wait and see what exactly all the details and the facts are. i will not tolerate it and make sure that we find out exactly what happened on this. with respect to benghazi, we have now seen this argument that has been made by some folks, primarily up on capitol

hill for months now. and i have just got to say, here is what we know. americans died. what we also know is clearly they were not in a position where they were adequately protected. the day after it happened, i acknowledged that this was an act of terrorism. what i pledged to the american people was that we would find out what happened and make sure that it did not happen again and make sure that we held accountable those who perpetrated this terrible crime. that is exactly what we have been trying to do.

there was a review board headed by two distinguished americans. they investigated every element of this. what they discovered was some pretty harsh judgments in terms of how we had worked to protect consulates and embassies around the world. they give us a whole series of recommendations. those recommendations are being implemented as we speak. the whole issue of talking points, frankly, throughout his process has been a sideshow. -- this process has been a sideshow. what we have been very clear throughout is that immediately after this happened, we were not clear who exactly carried it out, how it had occurred, what the motivations were. it happened at the same time as

we have seen attacks on u.s. embassies in cairo as a consequence of this film. and nobody understood exactly what was taking place during the course of those first few days. to e-mails that you allude were provided by us to congressional committees. they reviewed them several months ago. they concluded that, in fact, there was nothing a file in terms of the process we had used -- foul in terms of the process we had used. suddenly, three days ago this gets spun up as if there is something new to the story. there is nothing there. keep in mind, by the way, these so-called talking points that were prepared for susan rice 5, 6 days after the event occurred, pretty much matched

the assessments that i was receiving at that time in my presidential daily briefing. and, keep in mind, that two to three days after susan rice appeared on the sunday shows using these talking points, which had been the source of all of this contrary, i sent out the head of our national counterterrorism center, matt olson, up to capitol hill and specifically said it was an act of terrorism and that extremist elements inside of libya had been involved in it. so, if this was some effort on our part to try to downplay had happened or tamp it down, that would be a pretty odd thing that we days later we end up putting up all the information that, in fact, has the basis for

everybody recognizing that this was a terrorist attack and that it may have included elements that were planned by extremists inside of libya. who executes some sort of cover-up or effort to camp things down for three days? the whole thing defies logic. the fact that this keeps on getting turned out, frankly, politicalto do with motivations. we have had folks who have challenged hillary clinton's integrity, susan rice's integrity, mike mullen's integrity, it is a given that mine is challenged by these same folks. they have used it for fundraising and, frankly, you know, if anybody out there wants to actually focus on how we make sure something like this does not happen again, i am get their advice and information and counsel.

but to the fact of the matter is that these four americans, as i said right when it happened, were people that i sent into the field. i have been very clear about taking responsibility for the fact that we are not able -- were not able to prevent their deaths. we are doing everything we can to make sure we prevent it in part because there are still diplomats around the world who are in very dangerous, it difficult situations. we do not have time to be playing these games in washington. what are we doing to protect them? that is not easy. it will require tough judgment and calls. there are a bunch of diplomat who know they are in harm's way. the british have to deal with the same thing. we have a whole bunch of people

who consistently say i am willing to step up. i am willing to put myself in harm's way. i think this mission is important in terms of advancing our interest around the globe. we does honor them -- dishonor them when we turn this into a political circus. what happened was tragic. it was carried out by extremists inside of libya. we are out there trying to hunt down the folks that carried this out of me want to make sure we fix the system so it does not happen again. >> on the issue of opposition in syria, we have not made the decision to arm opposition groups. we have amended the eu arms embargo and that we can get technical advice and assistance. that is what we are doing. we are continuing to look at the embargo and seeing if we need to make further change in order to facilitate our work.

weo believe there is more can do in order to shake them, in order to work with them. to those who doubt that, if we do not help the syrian opposition who we recognize as being legitimate, if we do not work with that part of the opposition which not be surprised if the extremist elements grow. theink being engaged is right approach. >> bbc. you are talking here today about a new eu/u.s. trade deal. members are talking about leaving the european union.

thoses your message to pushing for an early referendum? if there were a referendum tomorrow, how would you vote? >> you told david cameron that you wanted a strong u.k. and a strong e you. how concerned are you that members are contemplating withdrawal? on syria, what gives you any confidence that the russians are going to help you on this? >> on the issue of the referendum, there's not going to be a referendum tomorrow. it will give the british public and entirely false choice between the status quo which i do not think is acceptable. i want to see britain's relationship in prove. i do not think this is the

choice the british public wants or deserve. d by a very simple principle. what is in the national interest of britain's tax is it appeared that will make our country's more prosperous that will help our businesses? we will push for this transatlantic trade deal. is it in our interest to reform the union to make it more open or competitive and to improve the place within the european union tax it is achievable. year passed to change. the currency is driving change for that single currency. i believe britain is quite entitled to ask for and get changes. is it in britain's national interest want to have achieved those changes to consult the british public in a fall on referendum. i believe it is.

this is absolutely right. it has strong support around country. tothis is what i am going do. you ask a question what are the science of russian engagement. i have very good talks on friday. frank a very conversation. we have approached this and some extent do approach it in a different way. i have been vocal in supporting the syrian opposition in saying assad has to go. he is not legitimate. i continue to say that. president putin has taken a different view. it is in our interest at the end of this there is a democratic syria, that there is a stable neighborhood and that

we do not encourage the growth of violent extremism. i think the russian president and myself can see that the current trajectory of how things going is not in anybody's interest. there is is a major diplomatic effort which we are all together leaving. it is bringing the parties to the table to bring a transition at the top so we can make the change the country needs. >> with respect to the relationship between the u.k. and the eu, we have a special relationship with the united

kingdom. we believe that our capacity with the united kingdom that is robust, out are looking and engage with the world is hugely important to our own interests as well as the world. the u.k.'s participation is an expression of its role in the world. ultimately the people of the u.k. have to make decisions for themselves. i will say that you probably want to see if you can fix what is broken in a very important relationship before you break off. it makes some sense to me. veryw david has been active in seeking some reforms internal to the eu. those are tough negotiations. you had a lot of company -- you

have a lot involved. yetong as we have not evaluated how successful those reforms will be. i would be interested in seeing a whether or not those are successful before rendering a final judgment. i want to emphasize these are issues for people of the united kingdom to make a decision about. not ours. i think david said it very well. if you look objectively the entire world community has an interest in seeing a syria that is not engaged in sectarian war in which the syrian people are not being slaughtered, that is an island of peace as opposed to an outpost for extremists.

that is not just true for the united states or great britain or countries like jordan and turkey that border syrian. it is true for russia. i am pleased to hear that david had a very constructive conversation with president putin shortly after. severalpoken to him times on this topic. our basic argument is that as a leader on the world stage, russia has an interest as well as an obligation to try to resolve this issue and a way that can lead to the outcome we

would all like to see over the long term. i do not think it is any secret there remained lingering suspicions between russia and other members of the g-8 or west. it has been several decades since russia transformed itself. some of those suspicions still exists. part of what my goal has been try to break down some of those suspicions and objectively at the situation. peaceful broker a political transition that lead to assad's departure but a in syria that is still in

tact that accommodate the interests of all the ethnic groups inside of syria and that end the bloodshed, that will not just be good for us. that will be good for everybody. we will be very persistent in trying to make that happen. i am not promising that it will be successful. sometimes once the furies had been unleashed in a situation it is very hard to cook things back together. there are going to be enormous challenges in getting a credible process going even if russia is involved. we have so many other countries like iran and hezbollah that have been involved. we have organizations that are essentially affiliated to al

qaeda add that have another agenda beyond just getting rid of assad. all of that may combustible mix. it is worth the effort. we are always more successful in any global upper room we have a strong friend and partner like great britain by our side and strong leadership by prime minister david cameron. thank you very much, everybody. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> senator joe manchin is down with the bloomberg news to talk about gun legislation. this is 25 minutes.

the hon. joseph manchin the byrd, margaret -- moderated margaret carlson of bloomberg news. [applause] >> good morning. i have with me the entrepreneur of the senate. that is an oxymoron, i know. senator manchin rides motorcycles, he hunts as a member of the nra, but he has emerged as the person leading the fight for gun-control in the senate, voting against what you might think the senator from west virginia might do. [applause] before i get into the politics inside the senate in washington, i want to travel for back in time to this

past weekend. you or a member of the nra. the nra had a highly publicized meeting this week in houston, and which glenn beck gave the keynote. i would put him at the top of my do not sell to list if i were doing background checks. [laughter] as a member, just tell me what you thought of their display and of the nra as an opponent. >> first of all, let me thank all of you for having me and being part of this great forum. you have to put it in perspective. if there are 5 million of us that belong to the nra, it is a very small representation of the nra. i have said all along that there are more nra members like

me to understand there is a certain thing called done since, things that makes sense, things we should do as law-abiding gun owners. iey are doubling down, and think the leadership is trying to take the membership in the wrong direction by making them believe that someone is trying to take your second amendment rights. if they would just explain the bill that we worked on, which is a compromise. it is not the president's bill. it is a compromise bill from those who come from -- when i first got to the senate, someone said i never knew anybody that had a gun. i was raised in a town where i did not know anybody that did not have a gun. we have to make sure we understand as a law-abiding gun owner, i am not doing anything wrong. i am not going to sell it to someone i don't know. when i go to a commercial transaction such as at a gun

show or online, i don't know that person. should we not at least know if i am a law-abiding gun owner, should i not at least know that i can exercise that right, that someone has been checked? that is pretty simple, and i think the majority believe like i believe. that is just common sense, that if i cannot bring credibility, then why would i be involved in the political process or be in the senate? >> i knew him through his daughter so sometimes i slip and call him joe. sometimes he slips and calls me honey because he is from west virginia. [laughter] here is the thing. the caricature that came across this week was that you own your

gun, but because i do not own a gun, i am an elitist and sneering at people who do own guns. thisis what came out weekend, and what comes out of this fight. it is the undercurrent. divisionou saw as the going on throughout the country. we are divided what your democratic republican, conservative or liberal. they want to divide you and in this category or this category. i don't know why we cannot sit and talk. i don't know why my friends on the republican side or the democrats cannot work together as americans. i think the country should rise above all our interests. >> have you talked to wayne lapierre? >> they took a position

basically, background checks are fine. they support background checks. i spoke to him when i was putting the bill together. it made some incense, and i've got to tell you, if newtow didn'tn changes, then nothing will. the grief of these people and the courage that these families have. it makes you think, can we do something a little better? not one of those families ever came to my office and said i want to repeal the second amendment. i want to take everybody's guns away. none of that. we want you to keep your guns as a law-abiding citizen and we want you to be able to exercise your right, but we also would like to prevent one person who should not have a gun, if we can prevent another family going through the tragedy ideas went through.

if we had one thimbleful of courage, we would be some kind of a body, but self preservation kick then basically at the political level, which you saw the worst scenario, and people were just not looking at the facts. >> this brings me -- there is a theory that you may have the wind at your back, that by losing, you might win. victoryad taken this and it would have made everybody sit on their laurels, look, we won. now you go out and the country and the politics of gun control -- >> not done controlled just background checks. is not universal background checks. it is criminal and mental. let me explain the difference for those who might not come from a gun culture. there are three types of categories of people that own guns. a person basically owns a gun like myself who wants to do

sport or hunting or gun rejigger sport shooting. you might want it for defense for yourself or your loved ones, and he might be just a pure constitutionalist. prepare myself against all aggressors, and you are ready for that. i guarantee that most of us belong in the first two categories, for sport or self- defense. a very small percentage is over here. when you talk to a gun owner, a person basically says, would you have this certain type of gun? they are going to look at you and say, why you have that fancy car you drive? what you have a card with a speedometer that goes to hundred 50 miles an hour when the speed limit is 65 or 70? why do you need it? do you follow me? you have to understand, news at universal background checks, the first thing that comes in

the mind of a gun owner, universal means registration, registration means confiscation. i am a law-abiding die. why do you want to know everything? just follow me through. now we are going to have a criminal or mental background check. i am ok with that. i am not a criminal. it is debatable whether i am saying or not, but i have not been adjudicated. the law is very clear. you have to have been adjudicated. all of this scenario sprung up. if a psychiatrist could you on medication, they can put you on a background check. it is very clear. it is against the law to use any form of record keeping for registration. it is against the law. thatwould make you think now they want to start registration? what we did, we said basically any government agency or any person that tries to use recordkeeping and confiscating

that to build a registration would be a felony with 15 years of prison time. so we were very clear, and everything we have in this bill, but as a law-abiding gun owner, some guns i cannot go to other states and buy. why? i have not done anything wrong. if i can pass a background check, you can go to another state and buy a car. you can buy anything you want anywhere in the country. once we can remove that scenario -- the problem is this. it is not that i cannot believe people at the nra or any gun organization believes that this bill -- if anything there are things in this bill they really like. they are afraid that is the first that, because they have seen the government overreach. whether regulatory agencies are any type of agency, the epa, they work under rules and regulations, so they interpret. the president's agenda is to

overreach and be more socialistic, if you will, and more controlling and the government overbearing. they are scared that this is the first that. we are dealing with the part of the constitution, the second amendment. any changes to this piece of legislation has to be done through the legislative process. there is not an agency that can evaluate and make a determination or evaluation or have a chance of overreaching. i am trying to explain that to my gun friend and hopefully we can give them some comfort. >> let's move from the mentality of the gun owner and the nra to the mentality of the senate. where we have had no adjudication as yet, so they can all buy guns. let's do the politics of the republicans in the senate and the vote. when john mccain went home, he had rose petals strewn at his feet.

this is what actually happened to john mccain. senator kelly ayotte of new hampshire, by contrast, was driven from her own town hall meeting. the politics going forward, senator mccain voted in favor of senator manchin's bill and senator ayotte did not, of course. so the politics going forward, you've got to get some republican votes. let's do republicans first and then we will go to what president obama in the rose garden after the vote referred to as the calvert sent his own party. >> first of all, let me say that i've been the political process for quite some time in the state of west virginia, i started in the early 1980's as a house delegate member. we have a citizen legislature and west virginia. we still believe that we all have to live by the laws we create. i went back for 60 days, ran for governor, but it did in 1996, became secretary of state, then ie go bamrnor for two terms.

>> wasn't 60% or 70%? >> we were very lucky. thenyone reelection to senate with 60%, which is a landslide in the current environment. but dawan. >> let me say that all my political career, i've never seen anything that makes so much sense, that resonated with so many people in so many different sectors of society, whether you are a gun owner or supporter or not. whether you are republican or democrat. this resonated with everybody because it made so much common sense. and something makes this much common sense, you have public support and the facts to back you up. all you have to do is walk out in your community and say this is what i voted for in this is the reason why, and this is what we do. i have done that all over my state. some of the toughest critics

are gun owners, and they all agree. i am just scared, i don't trust government because they won't stop there. that is where i hit my what if. i understand, from the political standpoint, republicans and democrats. for a job, we are all in survival mode. we all are as human beings. some things you don't agree with but you think i've got to do this right now because my job, my livelihood might depend on it. why would you put a politician any higher than that? and hold them where they should be above all this human nature, and is not. that are looking at this. i know this is right and i know the facts are on my side and i know public opinion, but when it gets down to brass knuckles and we are going to fight this out in the next election, i have to decide how much i want to

take on. i know this is a good, strong, grass-roots group with a lot of money and support and high approval ratings. do i want to really take them on? they might not be for me, but do they really have to go out and be against me? they calculated this and basically that had to make that determination. i talked to john mccain and i was so appreciative, he saw the facts and he is not afraid to walk into the devils' nest, if you will, and explain to him he is wrong. >> senator lindsey graham and senator kelly ayotte went in the other direction. senator graham has an election coming up. he may feel that it cannot stand to have the nra against him. is there going to be a movement that challenges the nra? wasayor bloomberg -- he

ridiculed at the nra. is he going to make the difference if there is a counterplan? >> we all have a different approach. when you think about this, if you were in a state such as west virginia or north dakota or arkansas, which is a rural state, and it has turned mostly read in the last 10 years, and most of the south has all gone red. that was the case, how would you approach that? would you say i am going down there to be up joe manchin because he did not vote the way he should vote? or would you go and say, i am going to appeal to the law- abiding gun owners in that state to understand that this was the best piece of legislation, it made all the sense in the world, and give me enough support for my constituents i don't have to do hand-to-hand combat with that your help in me. if you want to defeat me, i am not up until 2014.

try to convince me to change now, but if you beat me up now, i am going to hone her back and defend my position. you got me up against the wall. i am going to hunker down. or are you going to give me a chance to make a change? if you cannot change your mind, you cannot change anything. that is what we are trying to do right now. >> yesterday senator reid said he might bring the bill up again. >> it is coming back. >> but your colleague, senator pat to me, said he was with you, you had the votes. is he going to be back with you again? is he willing to bring up the legislation again? but has he said to you? publicly he said with what he has not been as enthusiastic, is what you mean. some of us are little bit more enthusiastic.

>> i was being cut by glass half empty on pat toomey. >> i said i believe what we did was the right thing and we are still with it. he is very good at the financial end of it. we work together on many bills and a bipartisan bill, but on this legislation, that might think, do i need to fight this thing? we need to make sure -- we need five senators. i know the vote was 54-46. harry reid change the vote at the end, by voting on the prevailing side you have the right to win back the consideration of that bill again. so we really need five votes. pat toomey will be working with us and if we have our target on five and we are able to talk to

him, the way some of them voted i think would be wrong, based on some of the facts. you have to give me a reason to come back. i cannot just say i had a change of heart because it looks like to pressure me. >> let me give you an example. let's just say mark pryor in arkansas. he votes against you. an you bring him back in state like arkansas? where do his interests lie? some of these people i think voted not knowing that the 9% could be as vocal as the 1% that showed up at the nra in houston. >> mark is one of the most beautiful people you ever met. the most congenial, and you can work with him. he is bipartisan. he is just a great guy. his father was a great senator before, so he comes from all lineage of that.

he has to make a decision. a certain hard-core right is never going to vote for mark. just understand that is the way things are today. you have to carve out the middle. you will not have the far left and the far right. they cannot run the country. it's going to be run from the middle. so now mark has to evaluate, is there enough support out there that can help me offset, for a valid reason that he thinks the bill needs to be redefined. to all of my colleagues, i cannot go back and create another background check on the internet and the gun shows just get your vote. then i have sold myself, and i cannot do that. i think they respect that.

is redefine. you come to me and you are mark pryor and you say i don't think it is clear, i think it is left for interpretation. and i really trade my gun to my cousin or might distant cousin or my brother on the internet, because he lives far away and that is the only way we communicate. i said mark, i think we have taken care of that, but we can redefine that and say that any immediate family transaction will be exempt from background checks. that more than covers it all. does that give mark enough? i don't know. >> but mark is never going to get the endorsement of the nra. >> he is not going to get it but -- >> does he want the other 80%? >> he does. this the wrath of the gun groups or the groups which has leadership not in

making the rank and file believe. time and energy and money it gets money being spent, or if he leaves them alone, did they leave him alone? >> but for the first time there may be money spent on the other side. >> exactly. mayor bloomberg and all the people understand are extremely upset, and i am too -- right now, this is an educational period. give a reason to vote for something. 2014 is not that far. give him a chance to see the fact of the bill and be comfortable with it. texted president obama help you or not help you?

>> here is what i have told i have some differences with the i am a democrat but i still think we need an all new energy policy. there's a balance in everybody's life to look for. i tell the vice-president, with all due respect, there's not a

just don't come from a gun you just don't have that credibility. taken out and teach you how to shoot. they just did not teach you the culture. president, and all due respect you don't have the credibility for me to believe you are going to protect my rights. i can talk to a gun owner and i know how we were trained. >> but i don't have to be gay to be in favor of gay rights. why do i have to own a gun to understand gun owners? >> i guess we are a fickle group of people. >> there should be a bar you >> we use them going hunting or take my son out shooting, people look like you have three eyes, like you have done something wrong. anything. growing up in my little coal mining town of arlington, my father never hunted or was an outdoors person, but he wanted to make sure i was exposed to and how to go hunting and do the things i enjoy so much. i am thinking that is pretty natural, where i come from. so i understand. >> i am from pennsylvania, i am

understand. before we go, one of the reasons i wanted the senator to come is because he is the salesman of the senate. he is the shoeshine and smile guy there. >> you believe that, don't you? >> who would you drive across the country with in the senate? this is going to be riding >> one of your own here, chuck he comes from a completely different world and i come from, and we get along so well. >> he gets more air time than i get. there are so many good people in the senate. there is much more a positive

what you see is negative and that is not who we are and not who we should be. it starts at the top. the president is trying to keep people together. you should respect your you don't always have to agree. i would tell the president, and we talk about different things, president to do well. i don't care if it is in your party or the other party. you should always want this country to do well. president has got to do well. you ought to be helping him rather than tearing him down. >> i want to thank the senator for coming. you brought good weather and your optimism, and you are such a good joe. >> don't lose faith. don't lose faith. >> thank you very much. [applause] in a moment, our series

continues, first ladies. it looks at lucy hayes. then a conversation about the u.s. detainee policy. later, a memorial ceremony honors journalist's who died and were killed for pursuing new stories. ♪ >> it is so unfair to her. it is a dismissive, condescending title. it suggests she is smooth talking and her function in life was to not serve alcohol. lucy hayes is so much more. as was her husband. everything she accomplished in the white house was in spite of

the fact her husband's legitimacy to be president was questioned. >> she was a charming person, very delightful. innovative. >> one of the more controversial questions is the white house china. an article says the art was absurd. who would want to eat a lovely meal and see a duck at the bottom of their plate? >> she took a risk in public affairs from an early age. >> two causes that were important to her were veterans soldiers and or friends,

children sewer made orphans as a result of the siddle -- children who were made orphans as a result of the civil war. >> she was a very devout mother. she does not neglect her children. she embraces the life. >> women's minds are as strong as man. in 1831, born, in ohio, she was the first first lady lady to have a college degree. that tells us much about the time she lived in. into a time where technological innovation and significant social forces usher in an era of the norm is change for the united states. good evening and welcome to c- span's continuing series on america's first ladies. tonight, you will learn about lucy webb hayes. here to start us off is a first ladies historian and author's of a collection of biographies. welcome. in 1876, the country is joyously celebrating the 100th centennial of the declaration of independence and it is an election year. the election is greatly contested with no clear victor. tell us about the atmosphere with which it was at the white house. what was it like?

>> we had just come out of the centennial celebration. they were coming to the white house, but they do not know if they will move into the white house. the election is not yet decided. what happened is samuel and rather be hayes were in one of the closest elections in the united states at that point. there are three states that are so tight, the parties are tackling each other. the republicans said, we won. the democrats said, no, we one. they talked the next morning and find out the republicans are challenging the vote. if they actually win the three states, he gets the number of electoral votes he needs to become president. they go through all the negotiations back and forth. there is congress involved, trying to cut these deals. literally, it is not decided until he arrives in washington, when the deal is finally set. we can only imagine the schizophrenia, the fear, the disappointment, everything you feel. >> so worried were they about the possibility of a democratics

a sunday. there was a private swearing-in at the white house. >> absolutely. absolutely. the country itself is still very unsettled. the civil war, even though it

as been over for 12 years, it is very much in people's minds. it was such an intensely personal war. everybody had been affected by it. now you are trying to figure out how you will have construction for the hayes and try to stay true to your principles. for the democrats, how can we hold the feet to the fire to give us back our land and customs. plus, we have got all of these technological revolutions, the telephones just premiered. you have all of the new kinds of interest being done.

you have a recession. it is sort of the first major depression we have had. the country is trying to figure out what is going on just as much as the hayes are. >> so they come to the white house with a great deal of government experience. a three term government -- governor in ohio. what did they do to establish their credibility when they get to washington? >> their personalities take over. they begin to try to acknowledge the fact that the election is really controversial. he knows he has been called rutherford fraud hayes.

they really set the tone for this. he makes overtures to the democrats. he opened the white house up. they began to try to engage in a public conversation and tackle

the issues that tarnished the republican party. the corruption of the administration when he said there would be civil-service reform. when he really pledges to pull pull the remaining troops out of the south. assuming that the governors, the government in new orleans and columbia will honor their commitment. he is trying to extend and knowledge -- i'll -- i'll of ranch to people. -- olive branch to people, saying, i hear you. >> how did lucy help in this effort? >> she understood how politics work and how to entertain. she understood how to facilitate conversation between people that

were difficult. she understood how to really bring people at the table in a way that would advance her husband. she was charming and everybody loved her, despite the no alcohol. she was able to do things in a way that made him seem approachable and ethical and blunt. >> she was the first first lady to have have a college degree, and this was a time of change for women. all kinds of new devices, being introduced to the home. early washing machines. women were beginning to take advantage of this by beginning to move into the workforce. is lucy hayes seen as a symbol for this? >> i do not think so. i think it is very easy to overstate the importance of the new labour saving devices and how many when it went into the workforce. women in workforce already have to work. the women who really entered the

workforce by their own volition and interest really are the generation after her. when she comes to the white house, only five percent of women who work are working in what we would consider today white-collar jobs like stenographers and secretaries and professors and educators. she is on the cusp of that. to me, the thing that is really interesting about her is how she is stuck in the middle in a way that does not make her stop. i know that sounds weird. the suffrage movement is totally divided along the lines of race. lucy hayes is the first college educated first lady. she stood with surgeons during the civil war. she has seen more battles, more scars, more amputees, more suffering, than probably any first lady other than mail he -- mary todd lincol she is not an admin guard performer. she is trying to find her own voice. it is hard to put her in a pigeonhole. >> on twitter, how did washington look upon lucy especially after julia grant's? >> that is tricky. they look at her as lovely, vivacious, happy, genuine, and then she does a gorgeous china and the press goes insane over it, writing about how difficult it is to eat food with a quail in the middle of your plate. >> they become an object of national interest. >> yes. the press really is taken with her. they use the title, first lady, more for her than they had for

anybody. they like her. they see her as five patients. they see her as somebody who is different. they really do follow her in her own light. >> throughout our program tonight, we will take you to the hayes home. you see a picture of it on your screen. this is the home where lucy and her family lived before the white house years. this library museum, they are all there to show what the first lady and family were all about. we are taken inside the home to learn about lucy hayes as a political partner and about some of the clinical partners important to her throughout her. let's watch. >> this painting shows lucy tending to a wounded soldier during the civil war. two causes important to her were veterans and soldiers and

orphans, children who had been made or friends as a result of the civil war. the painting was created to hang in an orphanage is -- orphanage in ohio. it reflects the issues important to her. when people associated with the causes come here to visit, they would sit here in this parlor. this was host to a number of civil war veterans. the unit rutherford served in, the future president mckinley was a member of the 23rd, so his family was frequent guests here. when they would gather here on the ground, when they would come in, they would sit in this parlor. lucy was a wonder for a -- wonderful hostess. this is where they would discuss the issues of the day. she hosted a number of political figures here for dinner, including future presidents taft and mckinley. as well as other local and national political figures. she is a partner with her husband. entertaining and serving it -- at the role of hostess. >> joining us on our set, the director of the rutherford b. hayes presidential center, also open to the public. 24 years of his professional

life was spent helping america preserve the history of the hayes presidency. we heard from allida black. >> she was a partner to rutherford, i sounding board to him -- a sounding board to him. she was able to engage people one-on-one and to make anybody she talked with think they were the only person in the room and

the only person she wanted to talk with. >> the election did not end after they were sworn in. there was a congressional inquiry. here is one quote where he said, sometimes i feel a little worried. this press and annoyance going on, i keep myself outwardly very calm -- what do we learn of her? >> she is defensive and has a bit of anger in her. >> she sounds like a good politician in her own right, able to mask the inner. >> one of my favorite things about that is it shows her passion to hold it in.

at the end of the civil war, she was furious and everyone started talking about an silly asian and forgiveness. she was saying, mercy is one thing but we have to have justice in mercy, which just shows her. >> i like to invite each weekan.

we will go to phone calls. you can go to our facebook page. there is already discussion about lucy hayes. to illustrate what kind of a person she is, she had lifelong interest after helping her husband on the civil war front. tell us about old veterans in the white house. >> yes. an old 1812 soldier came to the white house to receive an honor. he is supposed to have his picture taken. when he arrives, his uniform came separately. he was distraught the sergeants stripes were not on the uniform.

lucy went and grabbed her sewing kit, sat down on the floor, so did on, and the british minister came in, saw the first lady of the united states sitting on the floor at the white house, going on this gentleman's rank. >> which is how we learned the story. he told it. it is important to us to move on for a bit. first of all, today, we often see the expression or the nick name, lemonade lucy. was she known as that at the time? >> not at all. we cannot find where it appeared. it is one thing that has become about her. one of the things that is interesting about lucy is that she supports temperance, but never really affiliates with the women's christian temperance union, which was founded in

ohio, her home state, by people that lived within 2 hours drive from her. she -- they always try to co-opt her. she comes to this from her mother's father, her maternal grandfather, who is a member of the state legislator, who made her sign a pledge when she was young not to sign alcohol. that carried over with her. she was never really a follower of the temperance movement. >> what caused her to ban alcohol from the white house? did she ban alcohol from the white house? >> actually, no. her husband made the decision. it was a decision partly political. he wanted to keep the republicans within the party --

he also wanted to set the moral tone. alcohol was the drug of choice in those days. there were many families ruined. you heard about the sons of presidents who managed to -- to ruin their lives with alcohol. hayes was never a prohibitionist and never thought you should outlaw alcohol. he thought the people running the prohibition party were political pranks who also outlawed dancing and cardplaying. he just wanted people to learn by education. >> how popular was the movement in the united states?

>> it really takes off at the end of the century. they come in right at the beginning of it. the reason it begins to take off is when it merges with the women's suffrage movement. at the time of hayes's first movement into the white house, only 23 states could control their own property. one of the big wobbles with alcohol was, if women work, their wages legally belonged to their sons, husband, and they could not cash their own wages. they would take that and go in saloons. >> and spend their husband -- and spend their money on alcohol. >> the saloons gave you cheap here. it is -- the year -- cheap beer. what they are doing is organizing people, giving them a place to party, encouraging them to drink, and not having women's recourse over their own money.

that is why it really takes off. it leads to prost tuition, bankruptcy, and venereal disease. >> lucy was lobbied by the movement to become the public's advocate to the cause. did she agree? >> she did not agree. she spoke to her husband and did not feel women should be allowed to vote. she was not an advocate of women's suffrage. women's suffrage people came to the white house and she'd show them around, gave them a tour of the conservatory and the rooms. >> here is a quote that helps to illustrate that. she said it is a great mistake to suppose i desire to dictate my views -- to others. i do not use them myself but i have no thought of shunning those who think and act

differently. what do we learn from her? >> she is a fabulous politician. and she is not an absolutist or a more. what she has got its she has made her decision. she believes moderation is good and bad like her husband, she is in no way interested in outlawing everything and that she is sticking to her own believes -- believes -- believes her own beliefs. >> they wanted to memorialize the decision to serve alcohol in the white house. the first thing they wanted to do was build a fountain.

she said, i do not want my memorial to be a water fountain. i want to be in the hearts of people rather than on a piece of canvas and particularly the irony of it being a water fountain was certainly be galling. she was certainly not happy they were trying to raise the money to do this one dime at a time. she said, i think i am worth more than a dime. >> we are showing it to you on screen so you can see how we have preserved lucy hayes. how different is that a few of her from the woman you came to know through your research? >> very different. the woman is an enigma. she is trying to figure out how to be her own person. she has been stereotyped in a way that mary todd lincoln had been stereotyped. it does not show the current agenda incredible guts she had.

i just wish america understood. if i could tell them one thing about lucy hayes, it is that i find it stunningly haunting how much violence she saw up close during the war. in surgery and out. not only in ohio hospitals, but going to her husband caps, where her brother was a surgeon. she was in and out of the operating room. she did post operative care. she saw people without anesthetics suffering in her ways. when four soldiers, two of whom were wounded and two of whom were significantly ill, missed their train to chicago, she opened her back parlor to her house so they could stay. it makes perfect sense to me that she had those stripes on. i would be convinced that is the least she owed that man. >> on the note about violence --

>> there was a report a bullet went through their parlor window in columbus before they came to the white house. there was no secret service. they took it as it came. their son buried a pistol and he was their only form of security. >> from springfield, missouri, you are on. are you there? go ahead. >> hi. i wanted to give a quick birthday shout out to my dad. he is a huge fan of the program. >> wonderful. >> i have a question. why does lucy become an early supporter of the republican party echo -- party? >> she was an abolitionist right from the start. the republican party was the party of abolition. she was and and buyer are -- she

was an admirer of john and his wife. she would be a republican right from the beginning. >> on the women's suffrage movement, and the famous name, elizabeth cady, people came to the white house to see the president, and how did hayes react to her personal petition to be involved? >> they rejected it and they did not support women's suffrage. it had become an exceedingly controversial person in republican circles. she was very much opposed to the 15th amendment. it excluded women. she had really campaigned against the principles the hayes dedicated their lives to, the basic principles of reconstruction. she was not well received at all. >> was lucy hayes interested in any women's rights issues? >> yes. she was absolutely passionate

about women's education and encourage young women to go to college, which was a radical thing to say during her time at the white house. she saw tempers and, to a certain extent, as a way to help women. if you are asking about women's wages, where women work, women's rights to join a union, women's rights to vote, which were the major political issues of the time, she did not associate with that. >> different questions about the college degree. i will ask a couple of them all at once. first of all, on facebook, i am

not sure if they had majors back then, but what did she study in college? other people want to know, where did she go to school? clad -- >> in cincinnati, ohio. she got a degree in liberal arts. she studied rhetoric, composition, english, all the standard things. i do not think she studied political science. all was applicable to what she ended up being as first lady. she had to deliver speeches, which was probably good preparation for later in life. >> on facebook, ans she rubbedr

degree in the face of the elite while in the white house? >> no. she was a good politician and knew how to carry on a conversation without being erudite. she did not give offense. >> next, scott, tennessee. what is your question? >> i do not have a question. i just want to say lucy hayes and rutherford, they are just great role models. i have enjoyed studying them. they were really moral people. i really admire them a lot. >> thanks very much. again on twitter, it seems she might have been more popular than rutherford. is that true? >> there was a comment made saying, when the hayes traveled, rutherford insisted on lucy going along with them so no one would say anything bad about rutherford.

perhaps she was more popular than he was. >> the next call comes from julie in venezuela. are you there? >> it has been great. we are learning so much american history. it is just fantastic. >> do you have a question about this first lady? >> yes. are they the first power couple in washington? >> no, i would say the first power couple in washington were john and abigail adams. he first power couple in the

presidency were martha and george. >> another call. delighted to have people watching in venezuela. lindsay is in pennsylvania. what is your question? >> i do not have a question either, but i thought it might be fun for your viewers to know i am a relative. my made in middle name was burchard -- my made in middle name -- my maiden name was burchard. i found out he had quite the sense of humor and ended up riding a bicycle through the white house. i thought your viewers might get a kick out of knowing that. >> thank you so much. did he have a sense of humor?

>> he did. it was a bit understated. he cut up apples at the dinner table and tossed the people at the pieces at the people at the table. he could also tell a joke. >> lucy hayes gave birth to eight children, five of whom went to adulthood. >> we have more than 100 hayes descendents in our databases. we have four members of the family on our board of directors. we had a reunion a couple of years ago. a couple of the descendents came. >> entertaining at the white house, it was a dry white house but they used it a lot to entertain. talk about that. >> sure. the thing i thought was

interesting about this was how lucy hayes would hate steak dinners but pulled them off. she would be very vocal with people around them about that. she was able to, with an ease and a grace and an ability to put people at ease, really help open the white house up to people in a way that would be very different from mary todd, who would be charming but had an edge to her. lucy was just kind and was able to talk at the level of the person who was with them. >> she was particularly good with old people and children. that came through to everyone. >> we are about to return. michael on twitter asked is it true the name was a german word for mere are? >> yes. the ground there is clay. water does not percolate in easily. water sits on the ground. it comes from the german word for mere. >> what time in their life together did they move into the place? >> 1873 when they inherited the home from rutherford's uncle, who was his surrogate father, who was a lifelong bachelor.

they improved the house twice. they added to it in 1880 when they came back after the presidency and 1889, the year that lucy died. >> how many square feet? >> 16,000 square feet. a huge house. seven bathrooms. >> how much was open -- is open to the public? >> the entire house. we just spent $1.5 million bringing the first floor of the home back to what it looked like during their time. vintage broke -- vintage photographs and creating a lot of the wallpapers and furnishings. >> you are looking at some of the results on your screen. we will learn more. you have been hearing allusions to lucy's choice of the china for the white house. we will show it to you next. you decide. do you like it? >> we are lucky to have a number of items that belonged to us from lucy hayes at the white house. one of the more controversial collections is the white house china. it was controversial at the time.

it remains controversial to this day, because of the pattern of the china. lucy was an outdoors person. she loved nature. when it was time for her to choose what the white house official china pattern was going to be, she wanted to do something with ferns. davis was chosen as the artist to work with her to create the china. they met out and were going to decide what would make a good pattern. as the two of them talk, david suggested creating scenes that would highlight the united states. lucy thought that was wonderful and that is what they get. some of the patterns are beautiful. some of them are interesting. we have bleeding fish, ducks. people at the time did not feel this was appropriate formal china. even some of the journalists of the day wrote scathing articles of the china. one journalist said the art was absurd. another article was written that said, who would want to eat this lovely meal and finish up their meet and see a doc and a giant frog at the bottom of their plate -- a duck and a giant frog educate people from foreign

countries who were not familiar with the united states, and this would be a way to show them what nature in the united states was like. >> what do you think of the china? >> i actually like the china. they made many other copies of each of the items for sale to the general public because the company and france said they were losing their shirt on the whole project and wanted to make some revenues and that is what you see sitting on the side board there. >> how scathing were the press reviews? >> scathing. the most polite language was absurd. i saw stuff that said grotesque. undignified.

the press thought it was not fitting for the white house. >> and she continued to use it? >> yes. not delivered until months before they left the white house. kennedy used the soup waits for cigarette ashes. -- the soup plates for cigarette ashes. >> wheezed -- we will spend a little time, but let's talk a little bit about how they got together in the first -- in the first place. how did the hayes meet? >> they first met when lucy was only 15 and rutherford was 24. they met at the sulfur springs at the ohio university in delaware, ohio. at that point, president hayes'mother knew lucy and thought they would be a good match. she was a bit too young at that point. in 1850 when rutherford moved to cincinnati to start law practice down there, he met lucy again when she was about to graduate from the wesley female college

and that is when they struck up their relationship. a year and a half later, they were married in cincinnati. >> he was 40 years old at the time the civil war broke out.

what was the decision by the family for him to volunteer? >> he signed up for a three-year stunt, and she was very supportive of him. it was never a really serious discussion about him not going. it was always a question of going to preserve the union, and also because loosely had some strong abolition feelings, she was additionally supportive of the union. >> what was hayes history in the civil war? >> he spent most of the civil war in western virginia trying to keep most of the confederates moving from theater to theater. whenever he did get out of there, he was wounded five times, once badly, almost lost his left arm. in mckinley was also in the same unit, and then he turned into a tiger when he was on the battlefield, when he was a mild- mannered attorney, to being a warrior. >> the experts had to be -- exports had to become known. >> he was nominated to run to congress. he said famously he would not campaign. a man who would leave his post

should be scalped, he said. that was used on campaign posters when he ran for president in 1876. >> there is a dramatic story i would like to have either of you tell of his wounding. lucy was back in ohio. what happened? >> it was a combination of errors. a soldier was given money to send telegrams. he turned out only to have money enough for two telegrams and he sent them to the men and not his wife. she found out about it. they arranged in advance to meet in the house here in washington dc. she hopped on a train with her brother-in-law, went to all

kinds of places to find her husband. a man said he is back out in middletown, maryland, at the scene at the battle of the south mountain. her brother, who had fixed his arm, spent two weeks with him. the painting you saw earlier in the segment depicted her administering to the troops there. >> one of the interesting stories about the train ride, the train was so crowded, she has got to stand up all the way. when she finally sits down, she is sitting next to a woman who is distraught and turns to her

and says, she is trying to see her husband, who is in the hospital, before her husband died because he has lost both his legs. she is just praying she can get to see him before he dies. >> we will return in just a second. first, in rockland -- rockville, maryland, you are on the air. >> i was wondering what lucy's religion was and how religious was she?

>> thank you so much. an important question because it colored a lot of the way they lived in the white house. >> lucy was a very devout methodist. her grandfather, who served as her father, because he died when she was two years old, was a devout methodist. so, a very devout methodist. >> in this video, you learn more about lucy hayes as a wife and mother. >> lucy was very dedicated to her family. her children were extremely important to her. we know from diaries and letters this was kind of their gathering space. not only is this their bedroom, but this is where they spent a lot of family time together. the room is also very important as -- to louisiana as her mother as a mother, because the babies were born in this bed. tragically, one was never really a healthy child and when he was 18 months old, he actually contracted and passed away, something that was very hard on the family. this is what she took with her when she was in camp with her husband during the civil war. he was an officer in the civil war. it was very important to her she

be with him as often as was practical. when he was not out on campaign, she would travel with him. she often wrote she was very concerned about the welfare of the men at the regiment. she took this with her and she would do some sold in -- selling. she was a very good scene -- selling. -- sewing. she was a very good seamstress. they would write about these in the diary entries. they would have breakfast, then they would come in here and open the presents. they had very simple presence, not a lot of presence. this was the spate -- space they would do that. they had day to day activities with the family here. this watercolor painting of the president and lucy's bedroom at the white house. there was very vibrant blue collars here. here in their bedroom, the same

color screw -- color scheme was here. we know she liked the color blue. we know that by this painting here. when we were reupholstering some of the furniture here and tried to take it back to what it originally looks like, we found color swatches of the original fabric embedded within the pieces of furniture. this is the bedroom of their only daughter. her name was after the president's much beloved sister. this was a painting of her with her father. she was one of the only daughters. you can imagine a little girl

growing up in a house like this with a lot of brothers. she had the furniture specially made for her. >> from that, i want to call up on a picture we found that is a very compelling picture of lucy hayes. where was the picture taken? >> it was taken in the conservatory of the white house. it shows lucy with her daughter, her son, and her daughter of theodore davis, who was the man who designed the white house china. every morning, she would send flowers off to the various hospitals. in washington dc, she was a very

compassionate person, and a number of the flowers she sent word to peggy eaton, who we have heard about on previous occasions. when she died, lucy sent flowers off to her funeral. >> is watching us in baltimore, maryland. >> hello. i am enjoying the program, as always. my question involves a key intellectual.

the collection of books. she not only enjoyed reading books, but collecting them. did she have any particular type of book or genre that she preferred? >> the hayes collected over 12,000 books, all of which are at the rutherford hayes library in ohio. she preferred fiction. she liked to read to the children. rutherford's taste went more toward the heavier drama. they would sit around and read to each other from the latest book or dickens. >> we are talking about life in the white house. an interesting just of the -- just of the -- juxtaposition, they preserved that and found

some of the predecessors for mature -- furniture. they brought the typewriter, the plumbing in the white house, and what else did they do to the building echo >> i am not sure. >> -- noting? >> i am not sure. >> the carpets had holes in them. she strategically placed -- replaced the furniture. the ones on bottom were put up toward the top. she found pieces of furniture in the attic, got a few things reupholster, and went out and bought some pieces. once they finally got money, see put new carpets in the east room and reupholster pieces and added one more conservatory. class that is preferred -- preserving the white house

history as it is. alexander graham bell comes and brings the telephone. did they install telephones in the white house? >> they have the first in washington dc but it only went to the treasury department building. she was the -- so thrilled by it she had singers sing loudly into the phone. one bass singer hit a particular note and exploded a piece within in the receiver of the phone. thomas edison also visited the white house and arrived at 11:00 at night because congress kept him there too long. rutherford was so impressed he got the ladies up at midnight. it took him an hour to get dressed again and they stayed up until 3:00 in the morning playing with the new recording device. >> right now in washington, the washington monument is being read constructed -- reconstructed. lucy hayes was responsible for overseeing the completion of the washington monument. can you tell us a story about it?

>> the money had been appropriated during the grant administration, but they did not get around to doing it. thomas, who was in charge of public buildings in washington dc, was a very good friend of the hayes. lucy spent a lot of time with him because he was also the man in charge of the white house china. she liked to take people on tours of things. a stuffed owl got caught up with in the washington monument. when the owl caused it to shake, people thought it was an earthquake. at that point, it was only an owl. >> we have told you the hayes marriage was a love match, and quite a partnership. while they were in the white house, they marked the 25th anniversary of their wedding and did so with a public ceremony. all of us would be envious of this. she wore her wedding dress after giving birth to age children.

that is pretty impressive. lucy in rutherford renewed their wedding vows. was this genuine or a political move? >> it was genuine. it had to be let out quite a bit. it was the dress. she did not wear it for that long. >> ok. [laughter] this quote is from her. she writes -- >> so what was her view of other first ladies? >> that shows her humility and her feelings of inadequacy more than anything. she thought a lot of the first ladies that went before her were quite protective of people. i think she was being hard on herself.

>> a question for you on your scholarship. looking across ladies in this era, how does she compare? >> i think she made it through with less challenge and -- less tension. she came in at probably the most trying time in our nations history. when mary todd is trying to deal with immediate horrors of war, and trying to make the white house the nations symbol, she

tried to spend the nations money in a way where it really should be going toward fighting the war. what lucy gives us is a transition into the end of reconstruction. the country really understands her strong abolition feeling. they also see how graceful she is. she helps us move be tensions that julia grant had. i think lucy really makes it her own place in a way that is easier, if that makes sense. what do you think, tom? >> she tried to get rid of a lot of the formality and to invite people to come in off the street who may not have felt like they could come in during previous administrations.

>> it seems like the last four first ladies we have learned about found the white house in great disrepair. did things wear out more quickly back then? >> people also stole things. the claim that there was a gentleman that would go around with a bucket full of pieces of chandeliers to replace the prisons went -- the curtains when they were stolen, the carpet, all sorts of things. >> you find yourself arrested today.

>> things get dirty also. you can get clean, but you cannot get perfectly spotless. >> on the streets of washington dc, they were mud. you get 3000 people coming in on a public recession in the afternoon, you would tread a lot of mud. >> we have a terrific website. we have been working with the white house historical association on this series and we have created a great website for this. there is a first ladies link easily accessible. all of the programs we have done so far are there. every week, we have a special feature. this one is a video of the 25th anniversary of the hayes. you will see the cameo created

for that event. find our website and you will learn more about the history of the first ladies. we have been talking about about her image. we will return and learn more about her white house dresses. >> style and image was an important part of being first lady. whether they like it or not, people were discussing the ways first lady stressed trash -- dressed. the gown is what she wore for her official white house portrait. this down is called ashes of roses. she wore it for her oldest son's wedding. this was another gown she wore to her wedding, the wedding of

her knees, which actually took ways in the white house. lucy had her own style. journalists said, oh, she will change her hail -- hair. she was very comfortable. that is not to say she was not an elegant dresser. she was. this blue velvet gown is a perfect example of that. it is not ostentatious. this gown here is what she wore to a new year's recession which took place at the white house. this is the one that has the most sentimental value to lucy. she sewed it herself and it is her own wedding gown. >> on facebook, a question about lucy's personal style. was her hair parted in the style of today asked -- today echo -- today? >> she did not change her hairstyle. it is what she were her entire life. i think she was very comfortable with who she was. she understood how to carry herself well. i think her clothes reflected not the daring miss of the time, but the dignity of her position, not in a way that made her seem colorful and vibrant without being provocative. >> she was a mother of eight. the tone was fairly conservative.

it was something wholesome. >> caitlyn is watching us in springfield, missouri.

>> hi. >> good evening. question? >> how did she cope with losing children at such a young age? >> losing children was an enormous thing back then. was the losstory of the first of the children, lucy and the children had gone to visit rutherford in the field in the battle of west virginia. within a couple of days, their son died. they gave his body to a soldier for burial and the rest remained in camp. rutherford never really became attached to the child and it

was hard on lucy. she did not have a whole lot of time to grieve because she had to take care of the other children and move on. innext is a call from bill ohio. >> thank you for taking my call. how many descendents does president hayes have living right now? thank you. .> thanks so much >> we have more than 100 in our database. >> are any of them in politics? >> there are not any at the national level. there is a mayor in california. a woman. >> we have been looking at quotes from lucy. let's show you a quote from the president about lucy.

what was her approach like gecko some of the first ladies would fit in a congressional jet -- gallery. was she one of these first ladies? no, no one from the immediate family would have a paid , totion in the government try to keep her family members, mainly, for -- from applying for jobs. to his fathere saying, could you try to influence your father on appointment? lucy felt she was getting no place with rutherford.

he was a president who appointed african-americans. could you tell us about that? >> he did appoint frederick douglass as the marshall of the .ity of washington dc he was very aware it was symbolic. he also had african-americans appointed to a number of positions in the south, mainly. toy were also the first have a black opera singer performed for them in the white house, and had some other black performers on their saturday performances in the white house. >> many people are interested. shealk about the fact helped with the funds to finish the washington monument. you earlier mentioned her interest in orphans of the civil war.

what other causes was she involved in? >> she was interested in mental health, as well. in terms of the sanitation and treatment that we today would considered to be shellshocked soldiers. aboutuld care a lot , if they wereons disabled. there are wonderful records of when she would care for people, and this was before she was a first lady, when she would still be in ohio. she wins the soldiers who have not been paid and she would help set up a system to expedite the on time delivery of their paychecks. interested in orphans, veterans affairs, and the education of the deaf.

withso, she was involved the indian population in washington dc. >> yes. she did that without fanfare about it. she would give money to some of the employees of the white house to go out and give to the poor. another one of her causes was the education of indians and of lax. -- blacks. she went down to the virginia institute and saw indians being educated there who paid for a scholarship for a woman who of -- i ame wife having a mind thing here. indian school was founded during the hayes administration. she had a bit to do with that.

>> rutherford hayes, as we learned, was announced from the beginning that he would be a one term president. some of the events during his administration. the end of reconstruction. .he bland-allison act hayes be toted and congress passed the measure over his veto. he vetoed the army appropriations bill after three versions. hayes finally accepted. finally, in 1880, the u.s.- china treaty. how does history view the hayes administration? washat hayes managed to do not have the scandals you had during the grant administration, he managed to retrieve some of

the powers of the presidency .hat had been lost he appointed his own cabinet, made a couple of other controversial appointments without congresses pressing -- congress's blessing. to include thed south and the west and new england. at the time, he felt the nomination of the election was a sign he could have been elected if he had chosen to run for a second term in office. he decided the corner had been turned and the republican party was now swinging back. >> they were the most traveled presidents. >> they traveled thousands of.

-- of miles. they traveled together. >> was there asked then sieve ofextensive press coverage the travels yes >> yes. something viewers might be interested in, especially those who followed the senate, one of the things hayes was really very successful in doing was limiting who could of riders change -- writers who could change legislation. and to really put in a civil service system, where you assessed peoples qualifications before you gave them jobs. >> we talked about presidential congregations. the hayes seem like progressive diversity advocates of their

era. >> i think the hayes were progressive. in reallyineffectual helping the south adhere to the law. i say this as someone who was born and raised in tennessee. hayes pulled the last troops out after securing written commitments from the southern states that they would adhere to the civil rights of the 14th .nd 15 amendment when hayes pulled the troops , equality in the south implodes. you have racial violence escalating, the ku klux klan you have the

mississippi codes crystallized and it deprived lakhs of being able to own property, voting and i in mississippi, think in 1871, 97% of afghan men .an vote in mississippi less than 1.5% of african men can grow -- african-american men can vote. it is really two separate nations where african-americans emboldened by frederick douglass in the north began to really and begin to secure the rights while the south have

their aaa -- there's stripped stripped away. >> i have a direct relative to my grandmother, of course. she was born in 1870. in the lowered midwest. i looked at this beautiful lucy sitting in the chair, looking at the camera with those big eyes, and her beautiful children looking at the camera. i was so impressed. president hayes really really scored when this woman married him. she was an educated woman.

at the time, i presume, it was kind of controversial having a first lady with a degree, letting know -- let alone an abolitionist and a quiet woman andloved her children especially love her husband, whether he was president or mayor or wherever. >> thank you. that was a nice summary of lucy hayes for us, all the way from honolulu today. tothe time it was time leave after one term, how did they feel about leaving echo >> they were relieved to be itving, but they also said was the best time at that point but they felt they did not want to wear out their welcome. they managed to do some of the things they wanted to do, but they were happy to hand it off.

fore are going to return another video. this is about post-white house years. >> these are a few of the tokens the hayes received in appreciation. lucy was known for not serving alcohol in the white house. the temperance groups that existed in the united states at the time really admired her for taking that kind of stand. as they were leaving the white house, there was a group of amen that belonged to presbyterian church in illinois, they wanted to give her a gift for -- to thank her for making that stand. amongon a number of pages notable people in illinois, she asked them to sign this paper for mrs. hayes. when all the papers were returned, they bound them into these beautiful volumes we have here. -- ofare six are these

these. she signed here. we also have another autograph that is kind of interesting. it was clemens, also known as mark twain. what he wrote is total abstinence is so excellent a thing it cannot be carried to too great of an extreme. frome -- i abstain assonance itself. -- from abstinence itself. these were door curtains that hung right here in the house in this doorway and they divided this room, the library parlor,

from the president study. >> what were the white house years like after -- what were the post-white house years like? >> they only had one child married at this point. they still had teenagers at home with them. one son at college and the other working in cleveland. they hoped to have grandchildren coming in at any point. the hayes kept going with their causes. hayes was a trustee of the university. lucy was involved with the women's home missionary society, the only organization she ever took a leadership role with. >> what did she do for them? >> she was the president of the organization. she would go kicking and screaming to the annual meeting.

women's home missionary society was supposed to do was improve home life for howpoor, educate women on to raise a family, basically, blacks, indians, poor people of the south. 42 missions throughout the united states. criticism forto comments she made. thate made a comment there were more immigrants coming in from the heathen nations, the eastern european thoseies, and she thought countries they did not respect women and the chore of trying to simulate them into united totes would be covered -- assimilate them into the united states would be tougher. >> it shows us after they leave

the white house. is this a new phenomenon? no. hammered mary todd with hallucinations. broughtthe hayes america back in a way after the war. they are relatively scandal-free when they leave the white house. they do not change with they are there or when they leave. the country continues to be interested in them and grateful. >> why was she giving speeches about immigration? what is happening? in thepe is imploding

second wave of revolutions. you have new immigrants coming noo the united states longer english-speaking an irish catholic. they are from central europe, were russian jews, and italy. you have people of different races and different education levels and different religions that scarent skills americans. is a fear teddy roosevelt will very much expressed. >> next is jennifer watching us in indiana. hello. >> i enjoy this series so very much. that, i heardch the one son was college educated. what did they end up doing with their lives?

the other ones i did not hear about? >> all four of the boys went to college. they were college graduates. the daughter, fannie, did not go to college, which was rather strange considering the background of the parents. their oldest son, burchard, was an attorney in toledo. the second son was the founder of union carbide. quite wealthy. he was the gentleman who started the presidential center, which opened in 1916. ,heir third son, rutherford became a real estate developer in north carolina. and in florida. workedourth son, scott, for general electric out of cincinnati. i have another tweet, did the

hayes have any pets a did.wer is, boy did the in 1880, they had a three bedroom, large room, and a librar lucy never saw the back addition to the home, which had four more bedrooms and a large dining room. they had, in the white house, a of dogs,rd, a couple the first siamese cat in the united states, given to them by , also the name of the cat. it died on the trip out west and was buried there. the pictures of them with dog. they also had cows, pigeons, ducks, you name it, she had it. >> just to follow-up. on facebookcerned about veterans from the south.

?hat about the north >> yes, but in a different way. she wanted to make sure -- she looked at that as a way to reconcile, not as a way to put mercy on southerners. what she really wanted veterans to be was to have their wounds pensions on time, and that the country get over the war and advance the cause of negro rights. is the final in this program. it talks about lucy hayes years there. let's watch. >> lucy was such a nursing -- nurturing person. she cared about children and less fortunate members of society and also love animals and loved being out i'd. -- outside. whitehe returned in the

house, it was not long before she had a whole menagerie of animals here. she had notes, to cows, chickens, cats, dogs. she loved pigeons so much, interestingly, that she had holes drilled into the risers between some of the steps here so that the pigeons would have places to roost. some of the last pictures we have of her before she passed away, she is out here in the yard, feeding the pigeons, wearing one of rutherford's old beat up pats, and she loved animals so much, she loved to go outside and do her chores, and when people came to visit her, she would take them out to the chicken coop with her to feed the chickens. this was very important to her. when rutherford and lizzie returned from the white house, this place was still important to them. it was the nucleus of the household. it is where the family spent

there in formal time. they are older, they have got grandchildren, which they love it when grandchildren visit them here. one of lucy's favorite items in this room is an advertisement that features a very happy baby it so reminded her of her eldest grandchild that she hung that picture in here by her bag. this is also the room where lucy's story ends. she was sitting in one of the chairs here in this room. she was working on some needle points and watching her younger children play tennis outside the windows here. she suffered a massive stroke and slumped over in her chair and the family rushed in and carried her to the bag -- bad and this is where she passed away. and this is where she passed away. they are now very -- buried right here.

>> how old was she when she passed away? >> she was 57 when she died. she had her funeral there and was laid out in the front hallway. thousands of people came through. one of the great stories of her funeral was the procession went back behind the home and passed the area where the cows were assembled. they lined up like soldiers. >> i want to go back to the photograph we just saw in the video of lucy hayes in her post- white house years with her pigeon. >> they have the holes drilled in the steps right outside the household bedroom. that must have been annoying. perhaps they got up early in the day. .he said -- fed them daily >> did the president share her love of animals but tolerate her love of them. >> rutherford did not love them

what was an avid horseman, as was she. >> how long did he live after her death? >> three more years after her death. >> how did he spend that time? >> he was still active with the andersity, prison reform, he attended a lot of conferences. did a little bit of traveling, finally got out of the united states, bermuda, and other than that, only in the united states. he stayed out of politics. he felt past residents should really stay out of act of politics. -- active politics. >> damion is watching us in new york city. you are on. >> this is a fascinating show. i have never known a much about the hayes. thank you for this tremendous, tremendous show

i must say, he was a unique guide. wasould only have one term amazing. most importantly his wife was so influential given her college credentials and the fact that you know, during his he wasntial incumbency the first president to allow in front of the supreme court. do you believe that his wife had much to do with that? and do you believe that helped craft his decision-making around policy? thank you very much for the show. it had not think anything to do with the women testifying before the court. what about you?

>> president hayes it did sign the legislation that allowed women to testify before the supreme court. he cannot figure out a way. that was pretty much it. >> anything more about the influence she may have had? >> i do not think there was much to be they agreed on most things. than to lobbyr hard on anything. >> i think the influence occurred much earlier when they were beginning -- when he was practicing law and she helped change his assessment of abolitionist which he thought were extremists. >> we want to go to the first discussion. i do not know if you know the answer. was there a deal in the senate that the senate would approve if

he agreed to and reconstruction? >> yes. the deal was hayes would remove the last of southern troops -- the indian troops in the south which were in new orleans and in columbia. to really pull the last of the army out of the south. .ayes and did he do that he only did that after he extracted promises from both communities that they would in fact respect the amendment which they did not. >> sam from san diego, you are on. did the controversy over the election with him getting the nickname fraud affect her as far as out in the public? dishy off comments in public? >> she made no public's. i am pretty sure she was disturbed it.

they felt he would've been legitimately elected. >> we are getting close to the end of the program. thatt to show you a work was produced by the white house historical association. a collection of biographies of all the first ladies. we are offering this as a way for you to learn more on the biographies of the first lace. you can go to the website i mentioned before. you can make it a part of your collection. throughe into it eleanor roosevelt. i started going backwards and forwards to figure out which women were involved in policy and their husbands administration. was lucky enough -- i was lucky enough to be asked to redo the book. it has been out since 1996. >> as we look across, kate

asked a question. ' lastingthe lucy hayes legacy? >> she showed she could be and ask let mother and a supportive wife -- an excellent mother and supportive wife and be inclusive and welcoming in anybody regardless of social strata into the white house. she did not bend to the women of society and change her looks. she did not change her style. she showed a woman could be a woman on her own. but when she transformational or transitional? >> transitional. what should her legacy be? >> what it takes to hold that position. she brought her own memories and love of country into this as well as support and respect for her husband. thanks to the great folks

at the rutherford b. hayes association. it is in ohio. to the folks at the white house association. that is our look tonight at the life and times of lucy hayes.

>> join us next monday when our slaves will focus on lucretia garfield whose life long interest including reading, writing home and painting. after her husband was assassinated, she made their ohio home an early version of the presidential library and make sure to ensure his legacy. garfield success for -- garfield's successor the life and times of lucretia garfield and mary arthur mcelroy.

it'll be and 9 p.m. eastern. our website has more on the first ladies including a special segment welcome to the white house. it chronicles life in the executive mansion during the tenure of the first ladies. with the association will we are offering at special edition of -- a biographyit and portrait of each first lady including comments from historians. it is available for the discounted price of $12.95 plus shipping. a conversation on the baton of obey and detainee andcy -- guantanamo bay detainee policy. later, monday's news conference

with president obama and british prime minister. >> in every society, the major buildings reflect the ground on which they group so major buildings reflect the philosophical, economic, and thatical situation at time. this building does that. this is an eloquent building. it reflects the movement the use of slave labor. from thel turmoil post-civil war era. it reflects the optimism of the new south in the 21st century. and of course, it continues to reflect south carolina today. the building was designed to be symmetrical and instead of a dome, original architect

construct a square tower above the roof line. the construction was stopped and after civil war the war, the state was not able to build a foundation for that massive stone tower. what we see now on the outside of the building is a pressed metal dome. on the inside of the building lima we look up to what we think is that dome. in fact, it is in architectural 2 domes inside one dome. the interior for plants are not symmetrical -- plans are not symmetrical. it looks like the u.s. capitol. it is much smaller and different. >> learn more about the south carolina statehouse.

p.m. on steep00 -- c-span2. >> a conversation on guantanamo bay prison and detainee policy. andill hear from current former officials. this event hosted by the heritage foundation is an hour. [applause] >> thank you very much. i want to welcome you to the heritage foundation and our second event in our new national security law or ground. the goal of this new program is to research and discuss and myriad,hem. tough -- tough legal issues. there have been much discussion on policies.

experienceto bring professionals together regardless of political affiliation to articulate these issues in a civil and apolitical manner. that is why i am pleased to have three friends and colleagues joined me today on the stage. each of us have had the privilege of serving in the same or da asputy assistant it is called. each of us has had to tackle some tough challenges. many of the issues we confronted then and now are the same. that is why i thought it would be interesting for you to hear about the evolution of detainee policy, the law, the practices, and the reality from the four da.

i would be amiss if i did not acknowledge the many thousands of uniformed military personnel who worked with distinction in implementing the taming policy day in and day out. i would like to acknowledge the civil servants who have worked on behalf of the across two administrations to shape detainee policy. each of us could not have done our job without their help. one of the civil service is a guy named john who was not able to join us. he was that acting da over the past four years. thank the head of delegation for the red cross and his predecessors. on behalf of all of us, let me say that the confidential dialogue between the united states has been a vital importance. thank you for coming today. today's format is quite simple.

we will hear from each panelist in the order in which they served. each will give between seven and 10 minutes of prepared or unprepared comments. we will start with professor matt waxman. first da and our first speaker is matt waxman. his professor in law and faculty coach of the program and the law and national security at the columbia law school in new york. he is an adjunct senior fellow for form policy and the hoover institution task forces on national security law. he took his undergraduate and graduate degrees from yelp. he was a fulbright scholar in london where he studied. associate for the justice of the supreme court, david souter. i am glad you're here.

sandy hodgkinson was the third da. , a is at ds technologies midsized defense firm. atormer career civil servant the senior executive, her positions included distinguished research fellow at the national defense university. chief of staff to the deputy secretary of defense. deputy assistant for detainee affairs. --bie ambassador at large deputy ambassador at large. she spent a year in iraq advising the coalition on human rights and justice matters. she has opted more than 15 scholarly articles. she has been teaching security law since 2007.

she earned her jd and masters from the university of denver. she is also currently a ship mate of mine. to beeek she was selected captain. congratulations must sandy. thank you for joining us today. the fifth and current da is bill, a career marine corps officer. his undergraduate degree from the naval academy before he joined a component of the navy -- the marine corps. he took his law degree from yale and a mams from the war college. he was a deputy legal adviser to the national security council. he has a long and distinguished resume. he has held numerous posts as an attorney. he has served on several delegations and the most

relevant for today's event xoma -- event will national court. we have experienced and talented group of folks. without further ado lima i will , i will-- further ado turn it over. >> thank you very much. thank you for being here. i am excited. we have been talking about it for a long time. let me begin with a little history and what some of the priority issues were during my tenure which was about mid-2004 to late 2005. i will comment on what we did well and where we did not do well. -- thosefor those you of you have been following this issue, right on the heels of the ghraib issue.

room at sarahion -- television, etc. decide to establish an office to handle detainee affairs and detainee up policies. i mentioned that for two reasons. one is to emphasize the point that there was not really until 2004 an office with in the theagon, especially under undersecretary of policy with sole responsibility for detention issues, policy. heart of the reason for that was until -- part of the reason for that was until 9/11 lima was not much of detention policy.

the tension policy was the . that is nottions to say that difficult policy dilemmas and did not come up in prior wars. it was mostly about lamenting the geneva convention and long-established doctrine for how you run facilities and so forth. we had a range of difficult policy issues that came up not just regard to custody but transfer of detainees and in many of our detention programs also had intelligence gathering component to them. we needed to correlate intelligence piece. there were collusion aspects to all of this. we had a lot of policy issues that we needed to go through to work through. i would say before this office was created, detainee policy was

being conducted. it was being conducted and advised throughout a number of different institutions within the pentagon. the people who were thinking about the tension policy for guantánamo were not the same group who were inking about policy in afghanistan and elsewhere. -- one of thed ideas behind detainee affairs was to consolidate this. in terms of our priorities, we had a lot of policy issues that we needed to confront from the beginning. the overwhelming priority was to deal with the detainee mistreatment. this came in the wake of the crisis. investigations into that as well as reviews of our detention

policies in afghanistan, iraq lima guantanamo revealed widespread problems, mistreatment, and abuse, and mismanagement. in biggest single priority that early stage of the office was to improve the care and custody of our detainees and ensure that we minimized the likelihood of future misuse. future abuse and mistreatment. that is something that i think the office and not just office, this was a pentagon a wide effort, it was a big success. we had a lot of lessons learned that were brought to the surface through internal reviews, external reviews, working with our partners to surface issues and working with

militaryof the services, the various components. we did a very, very strong job in bringing up the quality of the tension operations -- detention operations and ensuring we minimized the likelihood of future abu ghraib issues. there is one aspect that care and custody and detainee treatment issues that we were not able to solve. this was something that was frustrating to me personally, but one of the problems that in my mind surfaced with these reviews in their early years of detainee operations was a failure to use international minimals as our treatment standards. these include provisions on

degrading treatment and the convention of torture and the standards of article three of the geneva convention. there agencylot of internal discussions about whether these ought to be laid out as irreducible in the end. other branches of government ended up intervening. congress in 2005 passes the detainee treatment act. making clear that u.s. government wide, this treatment was a minimum treatment standard. in 2006, the supreme court declared article three of the geneva conventions applied to al qaeda. this helped to solve these problems. due to some policy disagreements, legal disagreements, that was one .spect of our process

we were not able to get it done internally within the did answer department -- defense department. real quickly, some other issues that we worked on that were priorities. these were high priority issues, but nothing approaching the high priority of dealing with the detainee treatment issues during those first few years. one of those was putting in place good review processes at guantánamo. the time i stepped in in mid- 2004, this follows on the hills of two supreme court decisions two supreme court decisions. there were plans to put implants aperiodic -- to put in

-- to determine whether they should be detained at guantánamo released or transferred to another country. those decisions accelerated and led to some changes in the ways those processes were organized. some aspects of this were successful. some aspects were not successful. i would say the status review tribunals which were something we were accustomed to conducting and these type environments. i think despite the best of intentions and good faith efforts by those tasked with running those, we are not as well designs as they should have enemyor reviewing

combatants statins -- status. we had a review process to determine for even those who should be -- who could be contained -- detained at guantánamo bay or transferred home or sent to another country, we developed a robust process that led to the transferor or releases of hundreds of detainees. ofroval of the transfer hundreds of detainees. let me make a point that is relevant here to current policy discussions about this. most of those transfers during my tenure from guantánamo to foreign countries were done so with the understanding was somee andvidual would return

engage in some dangerous or even terroristic activity. these were not transfers where we had 100% guarantee that there would be -- we refer to it as recidivism. i opened to the fact there was some risk. the policy view was that risk was a risk we should be willing to bear the cousin there are because there are counter risks on the other side. . therere resource issues are partnerships we are trying to cultivate with other coalition countries. we have -- as i look at the guantanamo discussion today, we have balked -- a box ourselves in politically. only way we can

afford to release somebody is if we guarantee zero risk of danger. that was not the standard we were applying when we transferred or released hundreds of detainees from guantánamo during 2004 and 2005. i will end by saying another issue was transitioning especially in iraq and afghanistan. my colleagues will probably talk more about that. of the work came through their tenure. this was an immense challenge. i will mention it is often -- these days it often appears in the press and the context of transitioning from the united states to the government of afghanistan. it is often mentioned that it ta administration struck an

arrangement with the karzai government with how to do this. it goes further than that. there was a prior agreement in 2005 2 transferred the tension operations. many of the same issues that are being worked through now surfaced then. years ween about eight have been trying to work through this very difficult set of rules with afghanistan to transfer from the u.s. government to the government of afghanistan. >> thank you for setting the stage here. it is important for folks to realize the office was a new office in the pentagon. it was a necessary improvement in terms of focusing our energy in one place across alldo

matt goes across the river to the state department. to the pentagon after nine separate interviews. the person who interviewed me is actually right here. that wase main things still left to be done was of course, what matt alluded to -- establishing a floor for the baseline for all detainees regardless of their legal status. there had been a previous dod the top law for all components out there in the 1994 instruction dealing with enemy prisoners of war. it had not been updated since 9/11. which mattction worked very hard on within the

some ofo incorporate these things he is talking about still had not been done. it was clear to me when i came on board and talking with not only people with in the pentagon but outside people, something bid what happened before we actually incorporate among other things article three within the geneva convention. that big thing ended up being the decision by the supreme court in 2006 at the end of june. 2310 and a about few of the other big things during my tenure. matt did not take credit for this. i will say that he worked very hard with people