of oklahoma. and a look at the untax and had unregulated underground economy with a finance professor. >> i will look at the request and i have not been personally ball but i will try to be as responsive as we can. i'm sure there must have been a good reason why the two parts were -- >> as, you did not want us to see the details. >> no - i'm not going to stop talking now. mr. >> chairman, would you inform the witness as to the rules of the committee? >> it is too consistent in the way you conduct yourself as a member of the congress. it is shameful. ♪ > host: was an exchange between eric holder and darrell

issa at the committee hearing on oversight of the department of justice. this morning as the deadline -- we want to talk to you this morning on [video clip] "washington journal" you can contact us well on social media. or you can send us an e-mail or on our facebook. "re is the front page of " politico." you can see the picture of the attorney general dare and on the inside, here is the article --

democrat on the committee, john conyers, began his opening remarks with a sharp criticism of the department's foray into the ap journalist context --

that is from "the washington post," and we will begin with shirley on our democrats line from new york city. the way they grilled him is ridiculous.

the irs comes out with all these new applications and i think the irs has a reason to look at it. it is the same thing when uc students in class and everybody becomes an a student. wouldn't they look into that? it is ridiculous the way the republicans keep drilling to find something wrong with everything going on. let's move on and get this economy going. host: john is in baltimore, republican, go ahead. caller: what happened yesterday is simply a verbal lynching. it is evident in the way congress and the aid and with the what they have done this entire congress. they focused on making sure

that this black president does not achieve any goals and is discredited. all the things he has done are positive for this country. in the face of bigotry by this house republicans, i am a republican and i'm ashamed to say that in the face of the things they have tried to do and have blocked in congress, he still has been able to keep us above water, from going into a depression. his record will stand on its own. host: do you see yesterday's hearing as a race issue? yes caller:, i do because the nature of the whole tone of the exchange was disrespectful. there is no way you can justify treating a man in any way that way. you don't get that in any other situations unless it is a black man from congress. you can just see the behavior. an independent from texas, you are on "washington journal."

caller: i agree with the last caller. if they spent more time getting this country back together after the bush administration that destroyed everything, we could be further ahead. they are spending time -- wasting time on trials like this with eric holder. i believe this was a racist thing. sure thisto make have a goodes not history here. i am pretty fed up with it. congress needs to do their job. these people need to stop the attacks. they need to go on with the business they need to attend to. host: the ranking member of the jews judiciary committee, the top democrat, is democrat john conyers of michigan. [video clip] >> under your leadership and

under the leadership of the assistant attorney general, tom perez, the department has in lending60 million settlements including the three largest discrimination settlement in the department's history. $128 millioned employmentery in dense -- discrimination case in history, secured $16 million as part of a settlement to enforce the americans with disabilities act and more than 10,000 banks and other financial retail offices across the country and, last year alone, the civil rights division of the department of justice, opened 43 new voting rights cases, more than twice the number than in

any previous year. host: our facebook page is pretty active on this topic -- clarksburg, west virginia, what is your comment? caller: everyone is upset about the press situation.

england whooch in tapped people's phone lines. somewhere, the cia and different departments, people are telling them what they learned. this is our country at risk in different places. one feels like there is thing that keeps going on that i really hate. we have to have more respect for our president. i don't care what party you're in. a respected bush so let's get along together and we've got problems in this country and to disrespect their president, i don't appreciate that host: from "the washington times."

from "the washington post" -

republican in oklahoma, what did you think about the hearing yesterday? caller: i think it shows abuse of power. the firstted constitution by going after phone calls, secretly. they did not know and they knew it was wrong and they went in and did it. it speaks of abuse. you have the irs and the abuse their targeting not only the tea party but targeting people who were pro-israel, targeting religious groups. abuse just goes on and on. it seems like anything the

administration feels like it is going against them, they have decided they are coming after them. on the irs, they will be handling health care and for a person like me who is a small person, what if they come after me? i have no help. i have nothing to help me on this. it is very troubling to me. i am not a kook. i am 64-years old, still working and everything but it is very troubling to me that they these things are taking place. this here is "politico" morning --

article in "politico"this morning. eric holder had an exchange with rep randy forbes from virginia. "washington journal >> i don't expect you to be able to see this picture, it is tyrone woods and his father gave it to me yesterday. he and three other americans were brutally murdered in benghazi. many people believe because we had an adequate security or we had been in and what a critic wrote -- and inadequate response, many people are concerned of the manipulation of facts that took place after that yet this administration, to my knowledge, has continued to say

there is nothing the secretary of state should reasonably have done to prevent those murders certainly she has had no personal repercussions. who wasan individual brutallyred d so were about 150 innocent mexican citizens because of a fast and furious which you have testified about here. as far as i remember from your testimony, there is nothing you felt you should reasonably have done to prevent those murders. you suffered no personal repercussions from that. a few months ago, we had john morton, the director of ice said in their after we had the release of 2000 detainee's who were being held for aggravated felonies and we were basically told by the director that there was nothing that he should have reasonably done to stop that and he had no personal repercussions. now we have all the stuff we are

hearing from the internal revenue service where we see these atrocious actions, some against individuals teaching about the constitution and bill of rights and we have heard nothing from the administration about what they should have done to reasonably have stop to these atrocities and certainly no personal repercussions yes. host: the couple of quick cab lines -- the front page from "the washington times" -- we also have "usa today" - the next call is from columbia, missouri, independent line. caller: thank you. i watched most of the hearings. ison't think either side really trying to get to the

truth of anything. it is mostly just political front for the voters. as far as eric holder himself, he always has an excuse why he cannot answer anything. w says he has recused himself from this case, there are persons underneath him in charge of the case. when most lawyers have a conflict of interest, they take hold law firm out of it. he cannot even remember the day he recused himself. this man does that answer questions. i do not think congress asked the right questions anyway. i don't think any of them really want to find out anything. kansasext call is from city, missouri, democrats. caller:hi and thank you for taking my call i wanted to say that i think it is interesting do not many americans

have any outcry when bush naacp through the irs and in black churches and other progressive groups. now, all of a sudden, we get an african-american president and he cannot do anything right. he is the only one i have seen over the years that i have lived that cares about the american people, everybody, black, white, hispanic, or whatever but all people can do is criticize everything he does. but congress can sit on their behind every day and do nothing but hold hearings where as -- where is the outcry about that? don't they care about jobs? don't they care about families? no, but when this african- american president and eric holder who is african-american -- all of a setting, america is outraged. is hypocrisy and the racism

too much. it makes no sense to me. i think america is getting a chance to see how african- americans get treated every day. this is what we go through every single day. and you see the president eric holder go through, this is our lives every day. i think it is so amazing that bush could do everything like tap phones and anything he wanted to do. host: all right, this is richard in fort lauderdale, republican. are you with us? last chance -- we will move on from "the washington post" -

on the hearing yesterday at the house judiciary committee comes from an independent in jersey city, new jersey. go ahead caller: i am very concerned about the undertone that exists during the hearings. i was simply frustrated by eric holder's responses, from the highest seat of our judiciary branch, it seemed less than what we deserve. i also understand there are many things the american people that we won't be privy to. i think we like to look in hindsight and say we should have look'x' and it is easy to in hindsight that bonn gauzy and other issues including the boston bombings. there are many things the

american people cannot handle on a daily basis. it would incite a lot of and frantic concern responses. there is a degree of our system that we won't be privy to everything. i think we need to accept that. concerned about accountability but i think it would -- there was also an undercurrent of disrespect and that they that need to be added to by congress. clayton, n.c., democrats line. caller: i have been watching these things every now and then. eric holder, i don't know if people remember, but he was involved with fast and furious. he did not answer the questions on that neither.

office got out of that and the president put him in another office and now he is involved with another thing. he is still not answering these questions. nobody is getting fired. nothing is happening to people. the government is just running amok. i don't understand it. nothing happens to none of them. host: 0 kelli, florida, republican, go ahead caller: i think eric holder should probably follow some advised my mother used to give me as a child oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to d.c.. the cover up will get you in more trouble than just telling the truth. this administration is involved in so many scandals and a attempts to cover them all up and mr. holder is one of the parties involved with benghazi

and others. mistake, i made a think it is best to stick with the truth. if i may comment as an aside -- the old saying is that racism is the last refuge of scoundrels. i believe too many people from the left wants to introduce race into everything when anyone disagrees with them. it serves them no purpose. it makes them look really, really silly. as a matter of fact, it makes them appear to be racist. thank you for your time and have a good day. is paperm "the hill" --

ohio, in bellevue,

independent. he is gone. tony is in maryland, a democrat -- caller: can you hear me? i would like to go on about what the lady was talking about as far as racism. the other gentlemen that said it is a cop out to think that way. at the gentleman has not experienced it so i don't see how he can talk about it. that these tea party groups are getting attacked in some status is a little appalling in its own. a tax exempteed status? they are not a welfare group? host: digit think about yesterday's hearing? saw it and it was disrespectful.

if you want to ask the attorney general questions about what went on in these so-called scandals, asking that, don't try to be on the attack all the time. asking questions and you get an answer. carolina, republican blind -- please make your comment. i am taken aback that the investigation just hardly started. we are already playing the race card. we are already screaming racism. that is wrong. is guilty, the irs and they will be prosecuted. not enter a race debate based on what the irs did. it is shocking and it should not happen. host: here is a blog from

"politico" -

help"- from "the "-the hil next, and comes from denise in antioch, calif., independent. . caller: i just wanted to say that eric holder has been under attack ever since he was put in that office.

all of these people who talk about it has nothing to do with racism, they need to take a reality pill, it does have to do with racism. they say that's the first thing you want to bring up. it is real and alive and very well in this country. thank you have a good day. host: michael is in charlotte, n.c., on our democrat line. caller: good morning, one of the biggest problems that people forget is that eric colder is capable of handling -- [indiscernible] that if thisnate country is truly built on love, the republicans should find some way to work with eric holder. as well as the president. host: do you think the president and eric holder are working with republicans? caller: look at it this way --

the people voted for the president. the republicans lost the election. this is their nitpicking. the country should move forward. the republicans are going to either work with the president or keep the country from moving forward. continue to it to create these dissensions, not work with the president? it does not help the country. eric holder is a strong enough man to handle his own and the people see this. all the people who voted for the republicans -- what will happen is republicans will put themselves in a position to where the people will vote them out because of this obstructionism./

what are they doing? when they create any bill, it should go to the senate with the approval of the senate and then the president should sign it and. it there.ill leave from "the washington post" --

marble, north carolina, independent.

eric holder got road yesterday, what do you think? --ler: this is what i think i might 41-year-old white male. i was brought up by racist place. as i walk around the streets where i live, it is still races. you can still hear them talk. they are still racist. they cannot accept that we have a black president. just the very thought of that crawls their skin. that is alarming to me. think as eric holder, i he is doing a good job. the republicans came out yesterday talking about hindsight. where are they about the war in direct with bush? , lies to the cost? they're not holding up photos of

them. they don't say look at all the money that were caused the united states. many of the veterans are walking around crippled now. elizabeth, in allen, texas, democrat. caller: i watched the hearings this morning really early. forppose that was a repeat cspan. i cannot believe that any executive could say "i don't know, i don't recall, i don't have the facts, i don't know why that happened" and keep their job. i clearly understood the and the congressmen and women's reaction to that. my opinion, it was a total disrespect of congress for eric holder to come to that meeting and continuously say "i don't know, i don't recall, i don't

have the facts." that is his job as the lead. you know he was being evasive when he was asked what role the irs has and who they served and how the leadership is appointed to the irs. at first, he said he was not where they said. with pressure, his voice changed and he took a more authoritative sound and said, "ok, this is the irs that serves under the department of treasury and yes, is appointed by the president." you knew he was purposely being evasive. day callers call in and play the race card saying that these criticisms are based on race, they are the ones that are racist. "usa today" --

one more article we want to show you from "the post" --

james n. michigan, what are your comments? caller: a want to thank you for letting me be on the show today. i am a republican. this is not a democrat or republican issue. this has to do with our celebrities and constitution. these people took an oath to that. as far as mr. holder saying he knew nothing being part of the justice system and recused himself of what was going on, this is not a democrat, this is not a republican issue. this is about our constitution and our civil rights and they overreached. they went beyond our constitution and broke laws. i believe there should be more investigations and some people,

if not all, should be dismissed or put inl for their crimes. citizens, we have a constitution in place to protect us from a tyrant that mr. obama himself, not even two weeks ago, spoke about, coming around the corner. if this is true, why has not anybody asked mr. obama about the other stuff like benghazi? there should be some checks and balances and that's what our constitution does for the american people. host: thank you for calling in this morning. on thistter comments issue --

those are some of the twister comments that have come in and if you'd like to concur -- continue the conversation about eric holder, go to our facebook page. we have three guests coming up in "washington journal." representative tom cole be here and coming up next, karenbass and we will be right back. ♪ ♪ >> lucretia garfield was an educated woman and as a believer in women's rights, she expressed frustration with the traditional roles of mother and wife.

during her husband's campaign for president, she reluctantly played the role of hostess for president but when he was assassinated, she returned to ohio and injured his legacy by making their home into an early version of a presidential library. we will look at the life of first lighted lucretia garfield -- the first lady, lucretia garfield. join our conversation about the lives of first ladies, live monday night on c-span. this weekend, book-tv is live from maryland at the gaithersburg book festival. live coverage starts saturday morning at 10:00 eastern including author scott burt on the dakota warriors led by little crow in their 1862 last stand. at 1:15, kitty kelley with iconic image is of the kennedy white house and at 3:15, neal irwin on the recession and

followed by a panel of the publishing industry. the gaithersburg book festival is live all day saturday. "washington journal"continue. >> host: representative karen bass is from california and a member of the judiciary committee. that was quite a hearing you had yesterday with eric holder. >> guest: it certainly was. one of your viewers described it as a three ring circus. i would have to agree with that. host: what did you get out of it? guest: i don't think we got much out of it. i am saddened by the hearings and truthfully, i was a little embarrassed by the way some of my colleagues disrespect to the attorney general, in my opinion. i certainly hope he does not resign but, at some point, i can see him just getting very frustrated. every couple of months, he is holed up to the hill and grilled in what i believe it's a very

disingenuous way. host: we talked about this with our viewers and several of them said it was a braces to -- a race issue. guest: i don't know about that. i have seen my republican colleagues be very consistent with not just attorney general holder but other members of the administration. certainly, i said on foreign affairs, and i remember in the last session, secretary clinton being handled in the same manner. speaking host: of foreign affairs, is that kennedy taking the lead when it comes to the benghazi situation? guest: we certainly have. we have had a number of hearings related to that. at some point, i think we need to bring that to a close as well. because more concerned i have travelled to many embassies around the world press they have to say i am concerned about the condition of some of them. i was at the embassy in the

democratic republic of the congo and it is an old embassy. it is really in disrepair. when we are talking about sequestration or we are talking about cuts to foreign assistance, it worries me that that also hits the area of security. i worry about our embassies being secured. host: me ask you about the associated press and the telephone records. guest: that is terrible. host: you agree? guest: absolutely, i think we need to move forward and need legislation to address that. i believe it was before my time in congress that there was a shield law that had been introduced that did not go anywhere and it's time we put that back on the table and we talk about that. i really hope we get the bottom of that very quickly so that we can put it aside. at this point in time, we need to be in conference committee talking about the budget.

my republican colleagues have said for months, the entirlases, that the senate needed to pass a budget, the house had passed a budget and the senate has passed a budget now. the republican leadership needs to appoint conferees. we need to get on with the business of our country and not be brought down with all of these discussions about these various scandals. host: when it comes to inigration, is your district california affected by that issue? guest: absolutely, the entire state of california. we are a state of immigrants and the city of los angeles for sure. that is another example of an important issue that needs to be dealt with instead of as being sidetracked with these other issues. immigration reform is very critical. host: do you see what the so- called gang of eight is doing? guest: which gang of eight, in

the house or the senate? host: let's start with the senate -- are you in favor of what is being presented? guest: what i know of it, yes, but there are parts i am concerned about and we will see what happens. there is the issue related to the diversity of the says that africans and emigrants from the caribbean islands take advantage of. i think there are several issues with an immigration reform that need to be worked out. i am hopeful and i want to be confident that they will get worked out and the bill will pass through the senate. this is long overdue. host: has this been a good week politically for republicans? guest: they might think so because i think they had a stage where they could perform. when it gets to what the american people are concerned about, we need to talk about jobs and get rid of sequestration and move forward with the budget. i don't think any of that was

dealt with this week. today, for example, for the 37th time, we are going to go through the ritual of voting to repeal health care reform. as i understand, speaker john boehner said he is putting get out because the new members of the house want to go through the ritual themselves. i think they feel as though they need to take that vote to repeal health care reform. this is about antics. this is about my facebook page and letting everyone in the district know that i am against health care reform. it is not the business of the american people right now. we need jobs. host: how long did you serve as speaker of the house in california? guest: in my last term and we run every two years. in california, we had very strict term limits. i was termed out in my sixth year and that's when i served as speaker. host: can use the term limits for congress? guest: i can't see that because

it would have to be in all 50 states and i cannot imagine that happening. i think term limits was very disruptive to the state of california and i am happy that my colleagues now have the terms extended. we still have term limits in california but it is 12 years instead of six. six years was far too short. host: what is it like to be a non-lawyer on the judiciary committee? guest: interesting, i found it fined and i was concerned when i got the assignment but it does not feel any different than any other committee. every committee has lots of lawyers whether it is judiciary or not. host: professionally, prior to getting into politics, you were a physician's assistant? guest: absolutely, and i had started a public policy nonprofit but i work for many years and health care. host: karen bass is our guest, a democrat from california. if you like to participate, the numbers are on your screen.

we want to get you involved. this is from david in maryland on our democrat line. caller: thanks so much. the associated press is our latest issue of our loss of civil- rights. what harm could any person in congress find in supporting a new investigation and what brought down the world trade center building seven? host: response for that caller? guest: i don't know that we would need another investigation into 9/11 but this was before my time in congress but i know there was an entire commission that looked into that. i am not really sure what the outcome would be if we had another investigation for 9/11. host: daniel in missouri, republican. howdy, congresswoman. on the hearing --

with eric holder, there were callers calling in earlier and accusing the republicans of being racist. i'll tell you what -- somebody has to use the race card to win an argument, how can they really take that person seriously? guest: like i said, i have been in many, many hearings where i feel my republican colleagues have been pretty disingenuous and disrespectful of representatives of the administration and that has included people who are african- americans or white, etc. i really think the whole situation to enter yester day is a diversion away from what we really need to be dealing with. as i mentioned before, it is

time that conferees are appointed so we can address the budget. we absolutely need to end sequestration. people in my district are being very hurt by it. as a talk to my colleagues, we are hearing about the impact of sequestration all around the country now. i believe that is the business of the american people right now. host: u.s. attorney general holder about an issue we have not discussed, child prostitution. guest: absolutely, i call it child rape. this month as foster care month and next week, we will have 40 foster youth on capitol hill shadowing members of congress. one of the tragedies of our country now that i believe we need to pay attention to is that you are vulnerable, homeless, runaways, foster youth, are getting recruited into sex trafficking. many times, you see these girls, not always girls, but most of the time -- they get arrested for prostitution but if you

think about it, how can you be a prostitute at 12 years old? that is the average age in which they are recruited. i think that is a tragedy. i don't think there's a tremendous amount of awareness how that is impacting u.s. girls in front of our faces. if you are recorded at well, some of these girls don't survive more than seven years. i was asking him host: did he answer it? guest: yes he did. i asked him, can we look at really beginning to change the law? because when a girl is arrested, have that charge on her record. and then she turned her life around, like a number of girls that i met with a couple of weeks ago. i refuse to call them women because they are not -- they are girls. they know how solicitation, prostitution on their record.

they're back in school. they have turned their life around around your day escape the person i was holding -- holding them. i'm concerned about their record long-term. host: what is this new caucus that you have formed? for fostercaucus youth. it is a bipartisan caucus. there our efforts in the senate. 10ator lazzaro for the last years has been a leader on this issue on both foster care and adoption. when i came into congress a couple of years ago, she asked me if i wanted to take the lead on the work in the house. so we have an adoption caucus and a foster youth caucus. host: one of the issues we have knots discusses the issue of the irs. i want to be your reaction to a speaker banner had to say. [video clip] >> the irs has admitted taetingf the white house continues to be

stuck on the word "if." my question is not about who is going to resign. my question is -- who is going to jail over this scandal? host: karen bass. guest: i think that we need to do everything we can to get to the bottom of this. this is a egregious what happened. i was very happy that the president took the move that he did yesterday. as this met issue moves forward, it if crimes have been committed, then people should go to jail. host: bobby is in illinois, independent line. you are on with representative karen bass, dimmock -- representative of california. one thing i want to comment on is we keep hearing you say this is not the business we need to be addressing when we talk about eric holder and the president. eeith that because i think our lawmakers'

job is to keep us safe, to give us the opportunity to earn our own way to pursue happiness as we see it. with air colder and the president, all the different scandals scandals that have happened, that is something many's to be -- with eric holder and the president, all of the different scandals that have happened, that is something that needs to be addressed. how many years has it been since the democrats have actually passed or proposed a budget? and then with the child rape case, concerning their long- , when i say this, i do not want to alleviate that at all. i have three daughters. it a very serious issue for me. when they turn 18, the records are expunged. it will not affect their adult records. so taxpayer dollars on that aspect of it would seem to be a waste because it is going to happen due to surely -- judiciously on its own. guest: i do think the business of the american people right now is the economy and jobs and

sequestration. and you ask a question about when are the democrats going to pass a budget. the fact of the matter is that we do have a budget right now that was passed down to the senate. we also had a budget passed out of the house. it is time now to set up a conference committee. there is no reason to delay. in my first term, the first two years, my republican colleagues that almost on a daily basis that it was shameful that the senate has not passed a budget. that is behind us now. we have a budget on a table, and it really should be resolved. sequestration is hurting people all around the country. that really needs to be addressed. i happen to be of the opinion that that is the most important business of the american public right now. it is not to say that these other issues should be ignored, but you watch the hearing yesterday, i believe it is far more about saving banned substance. --t: tony tweet sent to you

what cuts have democrats offered to replace the sequence ration? guest: in my first two years here, all we did was cut. we cut billions and billions of dollars. and the sequestration is deeper and further cuts. what my concern is that people are suffering from those cuts. i do town halls in my district, either virtual or physical. representatives, physicians from clinics, talk about how they're going to have to turn patients away. they are not going to be able able to provide the services anymore. i have had parents come up to me with concerns around health, universities, education, you know, california specifically is finally coming out of the crisis. i have to tell you that i feel bad for my colleagues in sacramento where the situation is finally turning around, and then we punch the state in the

stomach with sequestration. so i think that the democrats have been on record. as a matter fact, i get criticized by democrats in los angeles that we cut too much. host: another tweet -- we californians remember gridlock in statehouse before we had a democratic super majority. guest: that is absolutely right. what a person is referring to is the years i was in sacramento, all six of those years, we were in a crisis. california was one of only three states in the country where you had to have a super majority to pass a budget. fortunately, california voters went to the polls and a changed that. now california is like the rest of the country. it only takes majority votes to pass a budget, so that is what that person is referring to. host: bonnie in new jersey on the democrats line. caller: good morning representative vast.

-- good morning, representative bass. i wish we could do that and our national senate, too. i cannot remember the name of the republican pundit to credit the comments with, but conservatism is a racket. they have done nothing for the american people. one just create manufactured crisis after another or finger-pointing. thank you for your good work and taking care and protecting our most vulnerable children. i do appreciate that. guest: thank you. let me just tell you that one of the things i love about congress is the history. my colleagues that have been in congress for a long time tell me that the issue is not with conservatives -- it is with the extreme ideology that seems to have taken over the republicans now. so my colleagues that have been here for a long time -- both democrats and republicans -- all tell me that what is going on now is very, very different than what has happened in the past. in fact, the conservatives and

the past have been helpful because that is the way legislation is made. is all about compromise. but it is very difficult to compromise if you come from an extreme point of view. host: chris in florida, republican. i, chris. -- hi, chris. caller: during the confirmation hearings of any cabinet member, don't they promise to answer any questions that congress might have, and isn't that because they are elected? you and everyone else in congress is elected to represent us, and not only do you have the power to ask them and provide oversight over the cabinet members that you appointed -- or you confirm, but you also have the obligation. if there is any sign of wrongdoing. don't they promise during the confirmation hearing that they will answer any questions, and because they are obligated under the concentration to answer a question that the congress might have because we elected to congress?

is that not right? guest: i do believe that most of them do. just to clarify, confirmations do take place in the senate. what i would say is that i do not think there is any problem at all with congress, the house, doing its republic -- it's response ability of oversight and questioning whoever. what i find having more than not is it is really not genuine questioning. i have been in hearings where the person that is testifying is not even allowed to speak. but the congress member takes up all of the time, and in the last 30 seconds asks the question that they know good and well that the person is not going to have time to answer. so i think when it is done in a genuine manner, it is very important. it is a part of our responsibility. but what i think we need to and is the -- two end the just ingenuous progress. host: let's be honest,

representative bass, sequestration is a reduction in the rate of increase of spending, government still spending more than last year. guest: sequestration is hurting the american people. i believe that there are many examples that are now coming to bear where sequestration is causing harm across the country. we can talk about healthcare, education, the state of california and snow that just as i mentioned before, now that california is back on its feet among -- its feet, to have to face sequestration is something that is very unfortunate. i cannot think of anything more important right now for us to be dealing with in the house and in the senate as to ending sequestration and moving forward with the budget. host: what is your district? los angeles, culver city, ,niversityso

almost to ucla. the neighborhoods around ucla, but not the college campus. baldwin hills -- a number of neighborhoods in my district. host: who are some of the bigger employers? guest: sony pictures, the university of southern california, ucla are some of the largest employers in the district. host: craig event tucson, independent line. caller: good morning. ms. bass, i want to agree with you about one thing in particular, and that is the number one concern of people in this country is the economy. -- but morerly, importantly, the citizens in this country are really tired of the constitution, the piece of of paper the piece getting walked on by all of the politicians. it seems to hinge on progressive movement from wilson's administration on.

host: craig, do you have an example of what you mean? about the constitution being walked on. caller: it seems like -- with this progressive, liberal movement that has been in place, basically from the wilson there has become little difference between every presidential election, every four years, there is less and less difference between a democrat and a republican. guest: oh, my. caller: that is why i am an independent. here is the deal -- there is a piece of paper that tells us how to run this country. , giveagain, if you could us a specific example that the congresswoman could respond to gecko -- to? guest: i could respond to the

last election. host: let's start there. guest: i think that this time period, the difference between the democrats and republicans are very sharp. i think that was manifested by the election in november. i cannot begin to describe a number of differences between romney and president obama. think it was illustrated by his comment about 47% of the u.s. population not being of his concern. i believe you have a president that would say exactly the opposite, that the entire u.s. population is a part of his concern. so i think that the differences between he two parties are very extreme. areuld refer you to how we dealing with the budget, and what is being proposed, and pick your issue. you can talk about education, health care, medicare -- i think the differences between the two parties is very clear.

wet: dog canyon tweets -- need more scrutiny of tax exempt status of political organizations, not less. guest: there certainly needs to be scrutiny. i do not know why the person would say that we need more. not if we do need more, i'm really sure that we need to spend our time doing that. if there is legislation that needs to be passed, then we should do it. i think all of the discussion is really a diversion away from what we really need to be addressing right now. host: james is in seattle, a democrat. caller: yes, representative bass, let me tell you, you people need to get some kind of backbone. i'm trying to tell you exactly what is going on. this is what happened to bill clinton. just hear me out. he got the tax rate, then they started it impeachment, trying

to shut down the government, everything they could. 2001. what started in now president obama -- he got his tax rates. what they are doing is trying to destroy the government, shut it down, whatever they can. this is grover norquist's plan after the taxes happen raise. like you said, you budget -- your budget is way apart. you can never reconcile that. we put the democrats and to stand for us. you are the government. thank you. guest: you are very welcome. i do wish we were the majority. we are not. the house is run by the republicans. legislationaddress that they are willing to put forward. so what my call was is for speaker banner to appoint conferees so we can deal with the business of the budget.

the senate is dominated. the democrats are the majority in the senate here in the senate has done its job. now it is time for the house to move forward. appoint conferees and address the budget. 'sst: what about that caller point about partisanship? do you have friends on the republican side of the aisle? guest: absolutely. i have worked with them on a number of issues. child wherefore, that is a bipartisan -- child wherefore -- a bipartisan is issue. when we had the 40 people on the hill, democrats and republicans have expected them -- have accepted them to shadow. it was powerful only did it the first time. members of congress had the opportunity to spend four or five hours with a young person any child welfare system. they had an opportunity to hear their personal stories. the majority of members of congress are parents. heartfelt is a real issue that brings democrats and republicans to the table.

the other issue i work on that is bipartisan is foreign affairs in regard to africa. right now, we are working on the reauthorization of of grow agoa, the african growth and opportunities act. that is also a bipartisan issue. you know what? is notnfortunate that it newsworthy when we were together. it is newsworthy when we're fighting. i do think that is unfortunate. we want to make sure that when the young people are on the hill next week, they get a lot of attention and a lot of coverage, and that the press looks at and says i'm a democrats and republicans can work together on this issue at least. host: have you had the chance to discuss being a speaker with former speaker pelosi or speaker boehner? guest: now a speaker banner, i would like to. but with speaker banner, absolutely. a memorable moment for me, after i was elected, speaker pelosi invited me to the hill.

one of the things i was excited about was to watch her leadership. while i was in that role, i watched what she was doing very carefully. ira member asking her about how she managed your i only had 80 members -- how she managed. i only had 80 members to manage. she had 435. republican in georgia. karen bass is our guest. caller: good morning. i have quite a few things to say. first of all, i would like c- span2 put more people on -- i would like c-span to put more people on with fact-based information. that way we would not be calling in lashing out with information that we think ought to be. also, we get a lot about racism. i think that we need not to hide behind racism. it seems to me that we are

hiding behind racism, and the consequences to me seem that the high school rate of graduates are less. we do not have as many students -- there is a high dropout rate. the unemployment rate is high in african-americans. i believe is because because we are hiding behind racism. there is a tv show called "boondocks," and if we would watch that and look at the r. kelly case, we might learn something from it. i just wanted to not hide behind racism because things fall apart. mentionedually, you the high school dropout rate, and that is a very important issue. i'm happy to say that in california, this has really been looked at now. as a matter fact, in my city of los angeles, just this week, the board of education passed better criteria for when students are suspended. one of the things that happened

to african american students if they are suspended from school in disproportionate numbers. if you suspend students over and over again, after a while, they stop coming. apparently, this one category called willful defiance was used. it became a very broad category to kick a kid out of class. for example, if the students would take off their hats, or does very minor things that a teacher might feel is defiant, they kick the student out of school for the day. so california and los angeles specifically is looking at other ways of handling that behavior. one thing not to do is happy the student not come back for class. i think there is a variety of ways to address the high school dropout rate. it is a very critical issue. countrywide, not just with african-americans. host: 10 minutes left with our guest. representative karen bass, democrat from california. richard is in shreveport,

louisiana. guest: hi, richard. caller: i just wanted to speak about this bipartisan -- this democratic and republican. i know we want to hold onto these democratic ideas and these republican ideas, but i think that everyone has different opinions about all kinds of issues. for you to just say i am all democratic or i am all republican -- i think that time has passed. i think the american people are ready to move on. as far as the eric holder situation, a lot of people were saying things about racism and things like that, but if you do something wrong, you should be prosecuted or held responsible for what you do. an approval rating of 9%. american people are not really trusting the government.

it is getting kind of scary. host: all right, richard, we have a lot on the table. thank you for calling in. let me just say, richard, i gave a couple of examples where bipartisanship is very strong. i mentioned child where fault -- child welfare. hits 18,ung person what we do in our country is we essentially cut off the support if you are a young person in foster care. that leads to homelessness, kids getting involved with the criminal justice system, and it leads to the girls being vulnerable to early pregnancy or pimps into sex trafficking. when i talk to my colleagues, democrats and republicans, and when i asked them -- how old are your children? could you imagine any of them being completely independent at 18? we do not do that to our kids.

we send them off to college, which means they are not completely independent. every time they need something from us, we're there to answer. can you imagine imagine a young person essentially being cast off to the street with no one to call, to ask when they run out of money, if they have a ticket, or where they go? very few foster children make it to college. under 5%. what happens to them in the summer and during vacations? some going to homeless shelters because they have no place to stay. that is one example of an issue s and republicans worked together. this month is foster month, so it is on my mind. host: karen bass, when did you first become politically active? guest: i was 14 years old. i grew up in a time period of great turmoil within our country and around the world. i walked the -- i watched the civil rights movement on tv.

i grew up in los angeles. spending many hours talking to my father about what life is like in the south, watching the civil rights movement, being inspired by leaders like martin luther king led me to make a commitment at a very early age that i really wanted to dedicate my life to fighting for social and economic justice. i have done that in a variety of different ways. at this stage of my life, being elected office is relatively new. i've only been in office for eight years. but i've been been involved for many, many years. host: first as a precinct person? guest: i did. i signed my mother up as a precinct captain. june so you are there in of 1958 when he was killed? guest: i was not. i was too young to go. i was at home listening to the radio because we did not have all my tv then. i did hear his assassination over the radio.

it was a devastating, life- changing experience for me. host: barbara, eastpointe michigan, democrat. hi, barbara. guest: hi, barbara. caller: hi, there. i am 73 years old and retired. ,ately, in the last 5, 10 years paying attention to politics. i was too busy with my life before that. i have lived under presidents from john f. kennedy until now, and i have had good ones, and i've had some that have not made much of an impression, but i do not think they were really bad until george w. bush. i really like his dad. a very good job as far as i was concerned. but i watch these hearings yesterday, any disrespect that

eric holder had to sit there and swallow just blows me away. i thought one republican congressman questioned him in a very professional manner. i cannot even more member poor man's name. i would like to give him a shout out to -- a shadow. guest: let me just say, i sat through it as well. i hope that he does not resign considering how much abuse he has to put up with. please do not be discouraged. i've tried throughout my time on this show to give you several examples of where we do work together. the partisanship is tough. i do hope that that changes, but there are ways, and there are issues that we were together on. but the most important thing is for you not to become discouraged because what happens when people become discouraged is that theynofthe e worst thing that can happen to

our democracy. karen is in norman, oklahoma, time for two more calls. we are going to start with karen, republican. caller: thank you, good morning. what i was wondering -- i have a couple of quick comments. the 47% want a concern of romney. that is not what he said. he said that that 45% or 46% would not vote for him anyway. which actually is not true because most of us do well for him. and you said washington, d.c. is different now. i wanted to say good. that is why we voted these guys in. i really think it is odd that you do not think -- or that you do think that all of these scandals are do something that republicans have thought up and you just wanted to go way. guest: let me just say that i do not want it to go away.

actually, i do wanted to go away. i wanted to be dealt with, but i do not think it is the most important thing thing happening in our country right now. we need to appoint the conferees to the budget. we need to move on. thank you very much. host: how would you grade speaker boehner so far? , i do notthfully think he has been a very strong speaker. i have been very concerned in the last month or so that it seems as though he has abdicated his leadership to the senate and pretty much said if anything is going to happen, it is going to come from the senate. we are not going to be able to get things are the house that would actually be viable in the senate. host: our last call called from -- last call comes from kathy in florida. caller: are you aware of the fact that whenever there are facts, substantiating these allegations, which are more than allegations for all of the

things going on now, that even trying to-- we are change the subject come up with that we need to focus on this, it is more important. how we trust our government to run the country? how can we trust -- and i am an independent -- how can we trust either side to run? guest: how can we trust either side? caller: how can we trust either side to run this country when we have such blaring things that were not handled well? guest: again, i think it is very important that we address the issues. the question that i raise is the amount of time that we spend in hearings. that hearing went on for hours and hours yesterday. i think that that was unnecessary. it is not that these issues should not be dealt with -- they absolutely should be dealt with. it is the manner i have

difficulty with. it is also the fact that we need to move forward with ending be sequestration. we need to get a budget. the senate has passed a budget. the house has passed a budget. the conferees need to be important. we need to be appointed. we need to address all of these issues. my concern is that we cannot allow the scandal to take us so far off track that we don't do the business of the american people. host: we were talking with representative karen bass, democrat of california. we appreciate you coming to our program. coming up, representative tom cole, republican of oklahoma, will be here to take your calls. after that, we're going to be doing a segment on the underground a comment. richard cebula is a professor, jacksonville university, and we will be talking with him. this is a suggestion by a "washington journal" viewer to do a segment on the underground economy. and that is what we will be doing. we will be right back from this

-- after this news update from c-span radio. >> an update on the boston marathon almonds from cbs news john miller. he writes that bombing suspect dhokar left a note. the note was to called with a pen on the interior wall of the cabin that the bombings were retribution for u.s. military action and call the boston "ictims "collateral damage adding that "when you attack one muslim, you attack all muslims." and afghanistan, and militant group is claiming responsibly for an attack in kabul. two servicemen and for civilian contractors were killed when a suicide car bomber struck a convoy. it formed a special "martyrdom unit" to attack foreign groups.

nato has not confirmed the nationality of the killed as troops and contractors. we will learn more about the situation in afghanistan and the u.s. military later today and a pentagon briefing. chuck hagel and general martin dempsey will take questions from reporters on a number of issues, including recent charges of sexual misconduct in the u.s. military. you can hear this reefing later today in our programming schedule. those are some of the latest headlines. a lucretia garfield was dedicated woman. she express frustration with mother read and wife. she reluctantly played the role of hostess for her husband. but when he was assassinated, she returns to ohio and ensured his legacy i making their home into an early version of a we will look at the life of first lady lucretia garfield .nd the life of mcelroy

join our conversation about the lives of first lady's life monday night at 9:00 eastern on c-span, c-span3, c-span radio, and c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: now joining us on the "washington journal" is representative tom cole, republican of oklahoma. representative coal, you seemed to put on -- representative cole, you think about your political hat. had this been a good political week for republicans? guest: yes, and have been. do not think anybody relishes a bad week for the president. the reality is we already had benghazi. i think that continues to unravel. then you had the irs incidents where clearly people were inappropriately targeted by the

irs, conservative groups. it was a sort of a nightmare if you are the president of united states because you know you're not going to have anybody defending you even your own party on something like that. and then finally, i would argue overreach apparently into the subpoena powers for reporters in the press. so it pretty tough week. ist: here is one paragraph wanted to read from this article in the "washington post." headline -- with white house on cashiers "issa challenges the democratic notion that he will overplay his hand. he says that he has gotten better at his job. -- at his job." thought each of its members any witnesses and the way it was done with appropriate. and i don't think he will overplay his hand. an exceptionally

skilled legislator. he has had a lot of time on that committee. and there is no question this is a really big moment. but i think is very conscious. he has got to be fair and evenhanded. and he's got to let the facts speak for themselves. and he benghazi hearing, it was pretty tough on the administration, not because the republicans were going after them, but because the witnesses on the ground had really interesting things to say that suggested lack of competence before the attack, indecisive response during the attack, and then after the attack, clearly, an effort to whitewash what was not a very attractive incidents. host: four-our recess yesterday. hour recess yesterday. what did you discuss? excellentreally session. i made the comment -- i wish c- span would cover this. host: we would love to. guest: yesterday, we would've

loved to have you there because it was the kind of the discussion that americans want to hear. it was thoughtful. all of the member to want to participate were allowed to. the clock was turned off. the leadership was all there. we began to talk about the debt ceiling and fiscal issues and how we are going to approach them and what are the things that need to get done, and give us your ideas, give us your thoughts am a and make them both substantive and what do you think process wise and politically. it was a really open, sort of a good family discussion from a conference in points. host: when will we see the debt ceiling come? guest: there are multiple views on that. we originally all thought it would happen in july 2 very early august simply because that is when we would hit the ceiling, if you will. that have happened over the last couple of years, including sequester, followed

by the economy and extra revenue, those three things coming together push that deadline back into october. so there is considerable discussion. do you want to get this done before august? or do you want to go home in august, listen to what people have to say, and then come back? so i do not think the decision has been made. personally, i like sooner than rather than later. i would like us to be able to push something to the senate, knowing that we would be in the negotiation process with the senate, with the president, and have august to talk about the way we want to do things, and come back and try to settle things before we end the fiscal year. host: revisited of coal cents on the budget committee. ransom noteing on instead of budget agreement? she accused republicans of i have a lot of respectguest:

for senator murray. we worked closely on the violence against women act. she is wrong on this. any reality, we have a crisis copy -- crisis call the debt crisis. debtutinely raise the ceiling is a nonstarter. if that were a good idea, and it is not, it would not pass the house of representatives. have something that says if we raise the debt ceiling, we are going to do something about the trajectory of the debt. what that is, i think that is what we were in discussion about. personally, i think the president has put some things on the table that i know were not easy for him to put on. and i respect him for that. he put unchanged cpi, he talked about means testing for medicare, and he has talked old long-ing medicare term over the window. he has not been specific about how your those are things we ought to be able to work with them on. ,o those types of things keeping spending under control, maybe leaking it to a -- linking it to a process for tax

reform. besides to be working really well on. certainly senator baucus and chairman camp had good discussions. so there is an opportunity to use the debt ceiling as a trigger to go back to a much larger fiscal deal. talking earlier with karen bass, as you know, the democrat of hell for you. one of the complaint on a different -- a democrat of california. one of the complaints of the geo point -- the gop appointed conferees. guest: i trust chairman ryan. rumor, he was a big player in helping resolve the fiscal cliff crisis. he voted for the final deal. he carries a big stick. i think he wants a framework where they can work. there are big differences between the budget. again, as an appropriator, we would like to see a budget agreement sooner rather than later. we are appropriating at the republican level. obviously, the senate will appropriate the in the critic senate they are about $90

billion apart. i would like to begin the process, but i've liked chairman ryan's. host: representative cole of oklahoma is our guest. you can send him a tweet at @cspanwj or an e-mail at journal@c-span.org. today, the house is voting on health care. here is the democratic whip steny hoyer. [video clip] >> what i find, and i believe most americans find, and comprehensible -- incomprehensible is how we can waste hours time on such an vote when the sequence richer is having an effect on our economy and on so many lines -- so many lives of americans. now suppose be our focus as we

can until we find a solution. were: well, if the roles reversed, he would probably be doing what we are doing. looks, i think affordable healthcare is a continuing issue. it has remained remarkably unpopular. i've never seen a poll where its approval outstrip the disapproval. members feel like is important to make a statement as to where they feel on that or how they feel. and frankly how the constituents feel. but i think it is the important thing to do. friendly, if democrats are as proud as they claim to be, i'm sure they would be able to vote for it i think this will be a continuing issue as it unfolds and unfolds in a very difficult way. host: marcus tweaked -- has in an unfolded in a difficult way?

guest: there is higher revenue because of the fiscal cliff. i look on that as sort of a republican victory because we tax got 85% of the bush cuts for 98% of the american people, but it did generate revenue, which is one of the president of the things, so we got something. we get the economy growing a little bit. and in the sequester cuts have done what they were supposed to do. i would argue they need to be spread across the entire budget and set of focused so heavily on the discretionary side, particularly on defense, but that being said, it still lowered the trajectory, and that is been a thing. but we have a long way to go. -- eliminateets the debt ceiling. the president can only spend what congress authorizes. guest: that is a point of view i do not agree with because it forces congress to face with reality.

it is always a tough, uncomfortable vote. if you look at history, it has quite often triggered reforms, changes in spending problems that probably would not have come without that sort of trigger, if you will. so i think it is a useful thing. i'm not for allowing the president to spend whatever he wants to do or raise the debt ceiling. nor do i trust congress to be disciplined. how can you look at and say, gee, i want to trust those folks, they will work it out. the reality is they normally don't. this is a really helpful call.e -- helpful wakeup it puts heat on numbers of congress. i think that is a good thing. host: randy is in riverside, california. he is a democrat. caller: good morning, c-span listeners. when i found out that were presented if cole -- that representative cole was going

to be on, i went to see what was his concern about the naacp twog investigated for years, to spend the money they had to spend to defend andrew young. my comment is -- i want to make a statement. what happened to me this weekend with my grandson, he is three years old. i thought about working in the and i said what are i lost my and he said tooth, and he blamed it on the dog. and i said, this economy is so bad, they do not realize what they're doing. sequestration -- give me a break. this is not helping the country. we probably agree that sequestration is a heavy

instrument. but we have to remember that president obama -- it was his idea to force republicans to deal with things. the president never offered a plan. the senate never picked up be the republican bill. i would not have expected them to pass exactly what the republican house it, but they had the opportunity to pass their version. they chose not to do that. so the cuts have occurred. , andld be more than happy i think my conference would be more than happy, to sit down with the president and redistribute the cuts. annualized on an basis. but it is only 2.4% of what we spend. was people can figure out how to cut 2.4% without laying off people or disrupting people or unduly hurting the defense department, all of which we are doing. at the end of the day, just as the president had tax cuts written into law- or excuse me, tax increases written into did notanuary and

negotiate, republicans are in the same pot with the spending cuts. unfortunately, the president chose not to negotiate, log in to happen, maybe a larger deal we can come back and revisit that issue. long-term, we have to get the debt under control so that grandson that i know you care about does not have to worry long-term about paying the bills of our generation. , how representative cole would you assess the importance of the appropriations committee today as opposed to 10, 20 years ago? guest: my friend and colleague across the aisle, of course you go blank the minute you say ,hat, oh, congresswoman captor made a point -- we can do on this committee 99% of what we could never do. i think it remains important. it is underappreciated. most numbers do not know we

appropriate less than a offer -- van they authorize every year. the only real cut in spending has been by the appropriations committee. because nobody has had the nerve to touch entitlements and a nondiscretionary part of the budget. the members on this committee -- some of my best friends in congress are democrats -- we sort of get it done. they know their work product is going to happen every year. we're going to appropriate money. the government is going to operate. legislatorst these -- most of them are long-term and skillful -- and while they are very opinionated, very strong liberal, very strong conservative come of their not doctrinaire. they tend to be people who know how to cut a deal because decently have to do that. i think the committee is incredibly and powerful. as it regains its stature, because we went through a tough period, we are very well lead.

ranking member are excellent legislators. i i think anybody in congress would tell you that. it looks like with senator weowski and senator shelby now have a combination on the other side that wants to return to regular order. senior and very respective legislators as well. so i think the appropriations committee is on the verge of a really good era. i think that is going to be a good thing for government. host: how much federal spending is automatic? 60% of the budget. that is our problem. it is our trajectory to keep growing. most of the legislative authority to deal with this rest enc.ys and means and on there is a lot of divisions. , thel security, medicare side of progress, they need to

be dealt with. , buty wants to lose them they're going to go in to bankruptcy themselves come up with the country and vacancy, if we do not deal with it. appropriators shown if you give us a number, we will have the number. we do not go over the number, we do not overspend. we really reduce discretionary spending pretty dramatically in the last few years, but it is not enough to stop this runaway budget. at the end of the day, we have to have a bigger deal on entitlements. host: do you see a chance for tax reform and this congress? guest: i do. i look at dave camp and senator baucus -- again, very skillful legislators. both in their last term. senator baucus is not going to run for reelection. revisited camp will turn -- term out. i think they both want to achieve something. they've had good discussions

here i think the committee is ready to move. -- parther for storing of restoring fiscal balance is growth. i think a lot of democrats think the same thing. the devil is always in the details. it is complex. i do not think it will happen quickly or soon, but i think we could have really productive discussions. there is a chance to do something that both sides can feel pretty good about at the end of the day. norman, lawton, the university. guest: it does. host: byron, republican of tennessee. caller: i would like to ask representative cole about another scandal that has been swept under the rug, and that relates to the head of the eta. she had these bogus e-mail account set up. she had 13,000, somewhere around

the number, of e-mails she set up. nobody is talking about that scandal. in thekind of got lost clutter of all of the others. , byron.l right are you familiar with that? guest: i am. i thought on the appropriation committee where the epa's budget have gone through. it is always contentious. . agree with the caller sadly, there've been so many scandals recently that this one is not at the level of the irs scandal or the overreach with the associated press, so it has not gotten as much attention. the fact that administrator jackson has leslie -- has left the epa has made it less of a hot topic. the job of congress's oversight. in terms of the executive branch. that means you should not have a itie outside of official channels

that are easy to subpoena or have the records. it raises suspicions even if there was "nothing wrong. "nothing wrong." i rumor the first time i met lisa jackson, i set out am looking forward to meeting you. and she said, don't get carried away, you have the most unpopular agency in my district. my farmer think you want to regulate dust, my all and got -- my oil and gas thank you into think you want to end fracking. you really don't want to be as well-known as you are. this is one where i think she was operating inappropriately, it deserves a hard look, and i expect the oversight committee, which is the appropriate place to do this, will do that. but there will continue to be tough questions. if you notice in the senate, the successor that has been

nominated by the president is having a really rough go. that is probably the legacy of lisa jackson leaving. host: jim is in knoxville on the independent line. representative tom cole if our guest. caller: we appreciate what you guys are doing. everybody attacked the republican on everything. we are the devil, i guess, to everybody else. [laughter] we have got scandal after scandal where americans were murdered. i am a veteran, and i've seen my fallen brothers being swept under the rug. it is outrage with us. there are still a lot of americans out there that still believe in america and want america to prosper. but under this administration, this is the most corrupt we've seen so far. benghazi -- fast and furious. how many more are going to come out? who was all involved? on the next channel,

and it is all we have to attack all of these republicans. either way, we reach across the aisle. you cannot work with somebody -- host: ok, we've got it on the table. thank you. guest: a lot to cover. i agree with the frustration in terms of the share number of scandals that we have had. benghazi is very troubling to me. i used to sit on the foreign operations subcommittee. i think this is not a "sideshow." we know three things to be pretty compelling -- number 1, 4 number one, for months, we should have known that this was a very dangerous situation. there were repeated requests for additional security. we were told of those got to the desk of secretary clinton. i have no reason to doubt what she said. if that is the case, something

is very wrong. we have that many warnings and they're not getting to the top decision-maker, then somebody is really messing up down the line. second, when the attack itself i respect our military, but we were not prepared. we have a lot of military assets in the mediterranean. it is not a mystery that this area is in turmoil because of the arab spring great on 9/11, you can expect an incident at someplace. to not be able to amount any kind of effective response for nine hours is very troubling to me personally. to suggest that we were not prepared. finally, you read the post accounts -- look, we knew instantly this was an attack. we had days of senior officials talking about videos, talking about spontaneous demonstration. it is hard to believe that was not a deliberate attempt to whitewash or sort of cover-up what really happened. that concerns me. happened inious

mexico on his official trip. with had tremendous cooperation with the mexican government trying to work on some of these border problems. the idea that we would send weapons into their country -- we focus on the scandal appropriately for the loss of one of our security officers, which is terrible. in mexico, they can trace two or 300 deaths -- 200 or 300 deaths to drug leads -- to drug lords. how would we feel if the mexican government worshiping up arms to sell on our side of the border? i think we would be pretty upset. ais suggests at the minimum lack of competence in administrating the executive branch. i think a lot of the press is coming to that conclusion. pretty tough editorials the last few days. dana milbank's piece yesterday in the washington post about

the president -- you've got to get more engaged. i believe the president has effectively fired the acting director of the irs. i applaud him for that. it was absolutely the right thing to do. i suspect there needs to be more firings over there given what happened. these things do anything else but get the president to reengage and his administration to reengage. they will serve a very good purpose. there is a lot that have gone wrong along the way. i think the president has not been held accountable. i think probably that is beginning to change. host: what is the last time he had a conversation with the president? guest: it was a funny one at the bill signing for the violence against women act. that is one where i work for a closely with the administration. i think it needed to past, i worked closely with it. the tribes have the authority to prosecute predators on their own lands that are non-native so we got that in the bill for them.

and he was kind enough to invite me to the bill signing. and i will say this -- i disagree with the president on a lot of stuff. native american issues -- he is one of the great presidents we've had. he really understands and get these issues. so we're standing there before the bill signing, and we are having patience with the vice president, who was also very intimate on a bill, and i'm standing between them and giving everybody an opportunity and i haveicture, to say that this is going to be the most unusual picture and my collection. and president obama starts laughing and said -- to worry, tom, we are not going to publish it. so he can be very gracious. hehould've mentioned this -- came to the republican conference and he spent 90 minutes and answered every question that was put to him. 90 minutes of, presidential time is a big deal. i applaud the president for that.

then he stayed around afterwards carried any member that wanted to go speak to him, asking the question, get a photograph, he stayed and did it. again, i think i kind of our outreach is very important. i think the president is trying to do more of that. we see it in these dinners, any interaction with members. i've had a couple of visits from the white house legislative shop to sit down and talk all things. i appreciate that because a lot of things could be said in private, candidly, that might not be appropriate, and you can explore ideas and places that you might find common ground. again, we see a lot more of that. perhaps we can have opportunity for bipartisan success. the fiscal cliff -- it is a big bipartisan deal. .urricane sandy -- a big deal got relief to people who needed it. violence against women -- bipartisan vote.

we did not sit on the government -- bipartisan deal. we improve the product by wrapping up some appropriation deals. so actually think that this year has been more successful in working together maybe now that everybody understands that the president will be president for four years, the republicans are likely to control the house four years, this is the time to sit down and craft compromises. the political terrain is not likely to change in the short term. 'sst: what are speaker boehner strains and weaknesses? strengths and weaknesses? republican conference overwhelmingly respect him. he took us from the minority

into the majority. they understand he has a set of principles. the speaker focuses on the fiscal taxation regulation issues. he is a good conservative in all areas. he is a small business person. that is the heart and soul of what most of us represent, not wall street, but main street. he also knows how to craft a compromise. there was a bipartisan compromise when he was a committee chairman. he understands the committee process better. a lot of our people get on the leadership process early and they stay there. leaders spent more time talking to members in their conference than they do across the aisle. that is the nature of the job. if you are at a committee meeting, you are sitting across from democrats and it is easier to nourish relationships. i think he is an excellent

speaker and an excellent negotiator and a guy that can bring us to larger deals. in terms of weaknesses, the only complaint is thaddeus too nice a guy. you need to crack the whip -- the only complaint is that he is guy.ice a he is shrewd about know when you cannot take somebody to the woodshed every day. when he finishes up and i hope that is not for a long time, we will have a speech to ship -- a speakership that is full of substantive accomplishments. he is a quite gifted an able guy. ast: representative tom cole, master's from yale and a ph.d. from the university of oklahoma and a ph.d. from -- in british

history. where did that interest come did lack of guest: -- where that interest come from? guest: i have always been a interested in history. i spent a year in london after a graduated -- i graduated. i live in the east end of london. my project was on english working-class adaptations of the welfare state and how to change living patterns and attitudes. i fell in love with 19th century britain. it is an extraordinary period. it is full of great characters. more profoundly, britain transformed the world. the british empire spread its culture. it is a remarkable period. i fell in love with it and never fell out of love with it.

host: representative tom cole, what is on your summer reading list? i am reading a book called the hopkins touch. not have the same politics, but i admire the political style. probably next up for me, i have not had a chance to read an act of congress. the reviews have been compelling. that is going to be an interesting case study. when you are reading a book where you know all the characters -- you know barney frank and senator dodd. then there is a book i just ordered on james burns, the legendary south carolina i was told i would love this book.

was is a guy who nearly vice president instead of two men in 1944. he continued to play an extraordinary role in politics and became an architect of nixon's success in 1968 and 1972. he just popped up working with harry hopkins in 1940 on the 1940 nomination of fdr for his third term. it is a pretty neat political work. i like to read about the process and study history. i should read more policy and last history, but i seem to learn better in history. arizona.enix, democratic line. thanks for holding. caller: my frustration with watching the house hearing yesterday with eric holder is the basis of the investigation

was not being addressed, which republicansths, were clamoring about national security, lies and all of the classified information being leaked. that i have isn how much do we know about the national security leaks. was it to be putting our country at risk? was the investigative response to broad and too sweeping with regard to the associated press -- too broad and too been sweeping with regard to the associated press? it seems like a circus across the board. the basic national interests of freedom of the press versus national security just totally slipped by.

host: thank you. let's leave it there. representative cole? guest: i did not have an opportunity to watch the hearings. hearings, there are so many multiple topics going on right now that it makes it hard to have been focused hearing. that is why the benghazi hearing was a success. they had the right witnesses. it was a single topic that people were talking about. when you have been iran scandal can you have this ap overreached -- irs scandal and you have this , it is tough to coordinate. i do not think we know enough about this ap issue. it just broke on friday. it is an important one. at the end of the day, we cannot

on transparency in the government to make the decision. whether you are conservative, liberal, republican, or democrat, you want the best information you can possibly get. the president of the united is the mostis active press in the world. you can be informed in the united states if you choose to. i deal with reporters on and off the record basis. i can tell them things i might not be able to say on the record. they have always protected that confidentiality. they regard that as critical to their work. i would like to think i never been real national security secrets. when i talk to republic -- reporters, it is about politics. i do not know if we know the balance, how severe was the national security leak at the -- the national security?

get everybody in the news media concern about this, that tells me that they are pretty fair. they also worry about their ability to do their job. i suspect this was a decision that probably was not a good one. as to thelimits communication the president can have with the justice department that goes back to the watergate days. on a matter like this, it is not inappropriate to call somebody in the white house and say, we are thinking about doing something like this. we are going to make our decision independently. we would like to know what the president might think about this. something in this process did not work well. thiswith benghazi, you have a

bipartisan -- a partisan debate. you do not have partisan debate on the irs. everybody knows it was wrong. on the press issue, there has been little defense of the minutes station by democrats. it is based on the idea that we know we need a free press that is doing its job in order for us to do our job. it makes life uncomfortable for politicians. it informs the american people and hold us accountable. you can not have things that chilled really good investigative reporting. host:'s is in west virginia. is in joseph -- joseph west virginia. looking forou are transparency in this administration, you are not want to find it. eric holder's performance

yesterday was an affront to the decency of the american people. his obfuscation was atrocious. the color before, yes there are people in this country -- to the caller before, there are some people in this country who are appalled. to put theusan rice cards on the table. she lied. it comes down to the president of the united states. eric holder does not remember when he recuse itself - recused himself. -- recused himself. host: can you wrap this up? we are getting tight on time.

caller: he does not remember when he recused himself. not one or two. this has metastasized into multiple scandals and a lack of transparency and openness with the american people. the benghazi episode is shameful. it is not a side show. is the executive branch. they seem to act like it is this agency but the administration had nothing to do with it. that would be like saying during katrina, fema was over here and george bush did not have anything to do with it. these are your personnel choices. if they are not performing well, what does that say about your judgment? if you are finding out by reading the newspaper, what does

that say about your management style? i think people are frustrated. it is not just republican frustration. democrats want this administration to succeed. they say they share the same goals and they like the president. they looked at the iris and the irs and thesay -- ap and say, that is our team. this administration is not administering the executive branch well at all. that is what these hearings are showing. that is what the media is picking up. the president is not just here to give speeches and crisis management. he is here to run the government on a day to day basis. that is what the chief executive does. i do not think that job is discharged very well right now. -- ona discussion on our

your book. harry hopkins, was he the one who intercepting eleanor roosevelt's letter after lucy mercer's letters were found? guest: fdr was the governor, which was well after that particular incident. there is an interesting set of personal dynamics and relationships in the roosevelt administration. wonderfuling the fought -- final volume of the trilogy on churchill. it is a great book. hopkins' name popped up. i had always known he played a role in world war ii. i did not realize how indispensable people like churchill and stalin thought he was and what an incredible alter ego he was to be present he was

and how much power and influence he wielded. he died in 1946. it is a fascinating. bang. i do not think he had anything to do with that particular incident. i have not finished the book yet, so i might be surprised down the road. host: let's close on two e- mails. when is the government going to make policy to expand the use of natural gas to make america energy independence? followed by this one from jim. what do you think of exporting lng? should we keep it here or engage in free trade? guest: we should keep it here, no doubt about it. if you keep prices artificially low, we will lose the incentive to develop. i am a free trader. you'd cannot deny people the

ability to trade. deny people the ability to trade. that will be an important development of jobs and an important earner. talk about people are our friends and allies and are looking for a reliable sources of supplies, i think it makes a great deal of sense. in terms of government policy, it has been interesting to watch this. we will see what comes out when we see the administration costs regulation on fracking, which is important on the shale gas -- regulation on's fracking, which is importing on shale gas. i will see what happens. i am a fan of the president's nominee for the secretary of

energy position. i spent a week with him. we do not agree on climate change, but he is an interesting choice. i am a big believer in natural gas as a bridge. lower emissions, cleaner fuel. understand the energy component. maybe there are some changes underway. it has been a hostile administration to carbon based energy. to beuld have economically blind not to -- not to the value et the guy is -- to recognize the value of making america energy in a pen -- energy independent. host: representative tom cole has been our guest on "washington journal." one more segment coming up.

a viewer suggested we do a segment on the underground economy. we will be joined by richard cebula from jacksonville university to talk about this after this news update from c- span radio. >> more on the effects of the so-called sequester from politico. the irs is reminding taxpayers that it will be closed may 24 so employees can serve one of 5 per as triggered by the automatic government spending cuts that -- lough days has triggered by the automatic government spending cuts that took effect may 1. u.s. consumer prices were down

last month by the most since december 2008. the sharp drop in the cost of gasoline drove prices down. prices were largely unchanged. this from politico. president obama and the prime minister of turkey will be holding a joint press conference in the rose garden. c-span will be covering that event and you can hear it later. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. marylandv is live from at the gaithersburg book festival. dakota warriors led by little crow. kelly on they kennedy white house. book festivalrg

live all day saturday on c-span book tv." segment isnext thanks to a viewer in vermont. we have been taking, he was on what segments they would like to see "washington journal" do. we will be looking at the under a grant the economy in america. we are joined by richard cebula from jacksonville university, a finance professor. he is joining us from boynton beach, florida . how do you define the underground economy? guest: it is the component of the economy that is not divisible. when you look at the economic system, most of the transactions conducted by households, firms,

state and local governments, those financial transactions are transparent and measurable. the underground economy is the component of the economy that is not measured. it is unknown in magnitude. we have esmahait is. the part of the economy that is real that we do not see. how much do you think it is worth? ofst: i have done a number studies on this. other people have done them as well. i probably should give you a broader picture. done along with thatr two co-authors shows we may be underreporting income on the order of 21%.

the same united states economy says we may be under reporting our income by 16%. who works for man the u.s. commerce department could sit in the 10% range. and someone who used to work for the international monetary fund got results that showed we are about 4%ng income at of gdp. there is a wide range of estimates. we are not sure which of those estimates is the most accurate. there is a range. it is neither minutes nor is it trivial. moth nor 9 their mam is it trivial. host: what kind of jobs are underground economy jobs?

provide goods or services to one another and do not report those transactions. it is on a reciprocal basis. other kinds of jobs are jobs for people receive cash under the table. these kinds of transactions are not reported to the internal revenue service or to any government agency. there are two reasons. we have the dark underbelly of the economy, which involves illegal behavior from illegal ofbling to serious types crimes. that is considered a small portion of the underground economy in the united states and most countries. the larger portion consists of people and firms that are more or less concerned about avoiding income taxes. in some cases, they are being paid a salary low enough when

they can have the tough, otherwise they would not have a job at all. firm doingkind of what kind of business would be considered potentially part of the underground economy? guest: i could be going out on a limb and i do not mean to offend any business owners, but the best case and example might be the landscaping industry, which tends to employ unskilled labor. often, there is cash. there are also industries in construction where wages are substantially higher. there may be benefits to pain in cash rather than recording and cashting -- paying in rather than recording and reporting income. .here are undocumented workers

those industries covered a wide range of categories. they have a variety of reasons including arting, federal law that they are violating. we have quite a range of firms and industries that engage in this type of activity. host: when you consider somebody who works in a hair salon or as a waiter-waitress and gets tips and does not necessarily report all of the tips, are those considered underground economy? extent theye receive tips and do not report them accurately, they are participants in the underground economy. absolutely. host: is there an estimate of how much this does not go into

the u.s. treasury because of the underground economy? guest: there is a range. you have to look at what he considered to be a realistic measure of the size of the underground economy. what would be the tax rate you would apply to compute your lost your that go -- to compute lost taxes? deal.asion varies a great it cuts across all incomes. you have people of high income engaging in tax evasion and people at the bottom of the income scale engaging in tax evasion. measure of average the tax rate. 13% or 14%. then you have the various measures that are undertaken as

to how big the and the gun economy is. if we were to use numbers based on the work of tanzi, we might be talking about lost revenues to the federal government of $100 billion per year. if we were to look at the estimate of tanzi, we are billion00out in lost revenue. is ourichard cebula guest. jacksonville university is where he teaches. we have set aside our fourth line this morning for those of you who may be members of the of 6e brandy economy who might

tips.e weets. to read some t shout out to the viewer who suggested this interesting topic. tweets, haserk always been an underground economy. but how far has it grown given the current state of the economy? thet: as an economist, phrase we use is mead reverting. it tends to move close to a long-term average. the size of the underground economy in the study i most recently participated in look like it could be somewhere along the order of 21%. they also show a remarkable

stability. the underground economy rises and falls due to certain circumstances. it does not seem to vary dramatically. a good example of why the on the ground economy can rise or fall -- the best example i can come up with is the tax reform act of 1986. president reagan in 1984 proposed a major overhaul of the income tax system. in doing so, he made major suggestions. the actual format he signed in 1986 was different from what he had envisioned. nevertheless, if we looked at the two years following the passage of the tax reform act of 1986, there was a dramatic decline in tax evasion. from my research, which does not

mean it is correct, there are two factors. i believe the good press that the media gave to the tax reform act made many people less free sample of the income tax system -- people less resentful of the income tax system and they did not try to find ways to avoid taxation. view, darker point of those who are inclined to continue their tax evasion behave years had a learning curve to learn how to deal with -- their tax evasion behaviors had a learning curve to learn how to deal with the tax code. the tax evasion in the united states started to rise back up into the direction of its long- term average. for you.weet

is the illegal drug trade included in the $2 trillion? forms of serious crimes involve transactions that will be on reported to the internal revenue service. they will not be reported to any government agency for the obvious reasons. to the amountes of our unreported income. this is true across countries. to almost every developed nation. i do not know if it is of interest to you. i find it interesting. although we are concerned about the magnitude of the underground economy in the united states, we have the lowest under god economy of any nation on the

planet that has an income -- lowest underground economy of any nation on the planet that has an income tax system. in recent years, the big economic engine for europe and states --ndy united and the united states, they have an income tax system of twice hours in tax evasion. evasion rates of twice ours. if you compare us to any other nation, we look pretty good. host: this next call is from dawn calling from conway, of carolina. good morning.

good morning. how much do yeed to make to bethe table in cash taxi they said? i have faith -- -- to be tax evasive. ? i have a thing i do during the summer and they use e-verify. they have pushed the immigrant population down to almost nil. it is a large farming state. i make a little extra money on the side helping farmers pick things. host: do you get paid in cash? caller: yes. host: you consider yourself part of the underground economy?

caller: that is what i am asking. i know i make under minimum wage. host: thank you very much. professor, what are some of the laws involving that situation? are violating the law if we got the would-we are not reporting income. ifwe are violating the law we are not reporting income. is the underground economy really a bad thing. it cortex felons or perpetrators of felonies -- i personally think it is -- but to it affects people like the color, i am more -- the

caller, i am more sympathetic. we may see a higher rate for goods and services. if we were to totally eliminate the underground economy, when people are not paying their income taxes, they are doing something else, mainly purchasing could -- purchasing goods and services. it could be clothing and automobiles that could generate jobs and an increase in gdp, which generates economic transported to the federal government and the end up in transfer programs, which have a spending multiplier of 0.6, which generates no jobs. in the private sector, the multiplier is another way of saying we expand the rate of jobs three or four times if the

money were transferred to the federal government. even though your caller from south carolina was concerned about that, if i were in a position to make a decision, i would turn a blind eye to it because most of the funds he in and are being spent benefiting the economy in a -- the funds being spent on benefiting the economy in a tangible way. that aim tweets national retail sales tax could capture the lost tax revenue. guest: i agree. the internal revenue service has done a fairly good job. had some complex issues

facing it of late, which it should be facing the music fourth. if we look at the irs record overall other than that, they have been able to create a situation where we are engaging in less income tax evasion than any other on the face of the earth. we could eliminate this problem, not entirely because there could be goods and services transacted under the table, but we could largely eliminate bureaucracy and eliminate income tax evasion for the most part if we went to a national sales tax. i think that is something worth serious consideration. we must be circumspect as to what form that takes. is a democrat in michigan. you are on the line with richard florida.n jacksonville,

withr: i have been dealing this 25 years. i broke mykd. i wasot able to g any type of jobs of the laws and rules and regulations. i went to work on the table for a construction table. we gethern michigan, laid off in the wintertime. i was told because my employer does not pay his taxes, i do not get unemployment. that is one way i am penalize. i have reached the age to retire. .t lowers my social security that is another detriment to me. over the 25 years, i have been able to put a daughters through college. i don't send a true -- acres of land and we all and two vehicles.

i went to apply for i was told just be glad i have a job. guest: it reinforces what i said a few moments ago. fundsderground economy are being spent. you have somebody putting a daughters through college. that is a wonderful accomplishment. that is a wonderful way to spend money. i am short putting food on the table and buying clothing and the other things done with the funds were of great value and that the value to this person's family and benefit the economy as a whole. you are going to take a different perspective than help generate jobs and health economics -- and help economic growth. i think the under done economy

needs to be monitored. i would be more concerned about the felonious components of it from the point of view of the perpetrators of crimes, real crimes. in terms of there being an issue harm coming from tolerating people engaging in the underground economy, i am almost a supporter of leaving the system alone. i think the system works fairly well. wewe want to tweak it, should do so very carefully. national tweets in, sales tax will not solve it. as long as there is a means of exchange that cannot be tracked, it will be there. a part-time

musician. i perform at social events. sounds like fun. host: please go ahead and make your comment. i am is supposed to report this income. it is not a whole lot. maybe $100 for one hour. is that supposed to be reported? guest: in theory, yes. if it is extremely low, your circumstance will be such that if you do not hit whatever the minimum taxable amount of income is, it is immaterial. where they tax you is that you would probably have social security tax implications as opposed to income tax implications.

host: getting a lot of tweets about this. what factors did you use to calculate the magnitude of the underground economy? caught thature i question please. host: what factors did you use to calculate the magnitude of the underground economy? guest: there are several approaches to doing this. one approach is using questionnaires, which i have little faith in. the other technique is a brought the tax gaplled approach or the income gap approach. it compares to using the national income accounts the government provides to us and comparing people's incomes in the aggregate to what they

report them to be on their income-tax returns. the discrepancy is called an income tax gap, foreign income gap. the taxes would be paid and they are called the tax gap. if you have an idea of the size of the and the bad economy, you isolate the factors that influence the size of the and the gawdy economy. you have a number of easily recognized factors that consistently have been found to affect the size of the and did not the economy. when people are engaging in the underground economy and they are being irrational, they are engaging in tax evasion. the benefits of the dating taxes, if you succeed, you have more income. the data we have indicates that there are more households that spend almost all of it.

sometimes people also get a secondary gain from an income tax evasion. the best example i can give it is if there is an unpopular war people have a resentment toward it. they undertake measures to try to avoid financing by finding ways they can underreport their income. the equivalent of it is to exaggerate their expenses and deductions on schedule c and their declarations on schedule 1040a. influencech of this the size of the underground economy. unemployment is a big one. when unemployment is high or if it is growing or stubbornly high, people worry about their job stability. those who are the most concerned about what do their job is vulnerable and with the they are

likely to be laid off temporarily or permanently are given a strong incentive to find ways to not report income. they create a rainy day fund for themselves. unfortunately, some of them need to use it. cause a greater income tax evasion, on employment -- higher employment does cause greater income tax evasion. -- higher unemployment does cause greater income tax evasion. the way the government operates and the more dissatisfied people are with the way in which government operates in terms of fulfilling its job, whether it is wasting tax dollars, the more they have a secondary gain in the engaging in income tax evasion. then there is the president to a

job approval rating. when a president has a strong job approval rating, people get a secondary gain of not engaging in the underground economy. they want to report their income. they feel supportive. they feel their money is going to a good cause. if they have an extremely unpopular president, people have a secondary gain from not reporting their income and increasing their participation in the underground economy. this is not an easy thing to compute our estimates. as i said earlier in this interview, the range of estimates as to the magnitude of the and the lot economy for the united states alone is rather considerable. if you look at other nations and estimates of their underground economy, developed nations that have more dependable databases, we see estimates of their respective on the gawdy economy

that are quite variable. the u.n.ctive is that deadline economy exists somewhere between one number and another -- that the on the ground the economy exists somewhere between one number and another number. we will never know the exact number. host: here are some numbers across the world in terms of the underground economy. several european nations are in their including sweden, norway, zech republic all the way down to the u.s. at the very bottom. we are talking about the underground economy with professor richard cebula from jacksonville university. this is because a viewer in vermont since this suggestion in. ryan, please go aheadur fewtion aco issues. , isn'tr a flat economy

it a more productive way of getting people to work where people are begging for mcdonald's jobs? we are paying for wars overseas that are intrusive and millions of people are dying. 80% of the taxes we pay go to it. why should we be forced to pay taxes? the: are you part of underground economy? caller: yes. i am a freelance computer programmer. professor, your comments? the professor is gone. we seem to have a little bit of a problem, a technical issue.

this chart a minute ago. these are the countries that have an underground economies and their size. we want to show you that again. bulgaria and 30%. turkey, poland. northern european countries are in there as well. norway, sweden, denmark have good size underground economies. canada comes in at about 12%. the u.s. is at the bottom. this is printed in business week. there is a $400 billion tax gap from last year that the professor was talking about a little bit earlier. there is $1 trillion early -- $1 trillion in cash in circulation. 10 million people in the u.s. do not use banks. this next call comes from larry texas.pus christi,

please go ahead with your question or comment. caller: i wonder if you have considered this factor. all of these workers do not have health care. the freethrust into health care system, or whatever you would call it. i have a hernia. i was working a cash a job and i got a hernia. they are not going to pay for your surgery. that becomes an extra burden on taxpayers, real tax payers. also, i am wondering if these employers are held accountable for worker injuries. there has to be a huge drain on the health care system.

, were you entire to hear the entire call? guest: i am not sure i heard a question. but is there a common? guest: we would like to have everyone paying taxes. if health care insurance is something that employ people are entitled to, we would like to see that provided. i am not quite sure to go with this beyond that. postal that is fine. we can move on. -- host: that is fine. we can move on. a tweet. income people are

they more prone to illegal activity? guest: the size of the underground economy at the lower income spectrum has increased. many of these people might not be able to secure employment in this country were they to be on the payroll. they are being paid limited wages. the reason for that is that is the nature of the productivity of their jobs. if they have made the choice to come to the united states, stay illegally, for argument's's sake, though not necessarily sake, for argument's though not necessarily so, they have taken the risk of not having health insurance for the benefit to a and a much higher

living standard than they would in their country of origin. despite the downside that was mentioned by your previous -- they are still better off otherwise they would not be here. host: professor richard cebula is currently at jacksonville university. ron tweets in. craigslist. are those parts of the underground economy. he says they are huge. were you able to hear that, professor? craigslist, are they parts of the underground

economy? in thepots of them are underground economy. if we have captured -- parts of them are in the underground economy. if we have captured them in our study, that would be dubious. back to have to go saying, even with those considerations, the magnitude of the underground economy is not something to be proud of. relative to what most other nations on the planet have done, we have a remarkably good record. its recentcept for behavior, has been doing a great job identifying income sources. they have something called an which matching program,

matches what people report on their income taxes, on income tax returns with what is reported on magnetic tape from the employers. this is a good way to track the extent to which people are reporting their income. stop theoven to help growth in the underground economy and may have reduced the size of the underground economy. host: are there any reasons why several eu countries are on this list as having a relatively large underground economy? guest: is shot to me when i saw italy.dies, germany, all income 33% of was unreported.

i found this astonishing. we have other countries in that category. portugal, 32%, belgium 30%. cheat sheet.at my why do you think that is? have an income tax collection authority that is less efficient than ours on the one hand. not advocating we have a wonderful internal revenue service program. i think there is reason to believe they have done a pretty good job in the long run. their counterparts in other nations are less effective. we have to consider cultural

issues. in this country, for the most part, most americans are intimidated by the internal revenue service. most americans are aware that if they get caught there are penalties and there is interest to be paid. in some cases there could be worse consequences. the other countries, in many other countries, the culture is such that the population does not relief to the same extent that they will suffer serious consequences from under reporting or not reporting their income. that is combined with more lax policies from their counterparts at the internal revenue service. , are our last caller from this segment. caller: thank you for taking my

call. kind is considered income, is that correct? host: if you could go ahead and .tate your question we are almost out of time. caller: our system recognizes monetary and punitive. they also recognize income -- in kind contributions to offset debt on owed items. what is your point? irs create a the the's trackingn learnedto our culture--

the's tracking effect to our effect -- the possible our culture. that would farng outweigh the benefits. in kind transactions, if they are not readily recognizable and identifiable, would cost the internal revenue service much more than it would collect in taxes. you have to look at the benefits and the cost. the benefits not -- do not outweigh the costs. an idea suggested by a viewer in vermont. thank you for the idea. i hope you got your questions

answered. if you want to send in a topic idea, you can put it on our tw itter feed or send an e-mail. session. is coming in they will be all teen the west will be vote on health care repeal today. onorable vicky hartzler to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the order of the house of january 3, 2013, the chair will now recognize members from lists submitted by ma