memorial day is a day we remember those that never came home. they say you go to work for your nation, but you fight for your brothers. , i think,came home the best way to honor those who did not come home would be to honor those who are here. aren't at a veterans hospital, -- go to a veterans hospital, donate to a cause, there are some many things we can do good one thing they all die for is our nation. i think we can all do a little bit better caring about each other. in their memory. abdul served as the senate majority leader at one time. he was also the republican nominee for president back in 1996. he has an op-ed taken a look -- taking a look at supporting veterans charities. the headline --

one of the takeouts from it, he says billy is a retired veteran, miami, florida. caller: good morning. air force retired. i would also like to add that i am a gay air force retired, and my partner is a navy retired. , myoint on this being question is, why weren't days -- gaysin the military allowed in the military when

there is this brouhaha over sexual assault? hirenk they should unemployed military veterans to sit down and transfer all of those disability claims to computers and get this done, if they are really serious, or if this is just another gasbag. iq for c-span. i will take my comment -- your comments offline. host: we will move to maryland, robert on our retired veterans line. hello. caller: good morning, josé. look, i am a disabled vietnam veteran. is beingly bothers me a war veteran is hard enough as it is. i have had four of my friends commit suicide. a lot ofne committed homicides as a result of his work,. -- war trauma.

what bothers me a lot is the fact that work from us -- war traumas -- i was at the hospital in maryland, and i saw the abuse of a lot of black veterans that i reported to my had theperson who secretary of veterans affairs under mr. bush to come down on these people for their abuse. ever since that point in time, i have been unbelievably mistreated by doing what i should've done through the mistreatment of these veterans -- don by reporting the veterans.nt of these i am a minority veteran. to be discriminated adn blackballed-- and is a traumatic experience for a

lot of us minority veterans. host: that is the last call we will take. we will talk about a series of veterans issues as we go across the morning. we will talk first of all, taking a look at issues along that line, but again, a shot at the tomb of the unknowns. president obama is set to go there later today for a wreathlaying. that will take place at around 11:00 a.m. can see that on c-span -- you can see that on c-span. more "washington journal" after this. >> i do not underestimate the difficulty of doing this auction. it has never been done before. we've never done a reverse and

forward auction. it is very complicated. there are moving parts. i know they are working to will gently at the fcc to get it right. our job on the subcommittee is to make sure that they are adhering to the law, that we are in constant communication so that our intent is clear, but we want as much of the spectrum made available for sale in the auction is possible so we can build up more wireless infrastructure. >> oregon congressman greg walden on the fcc spectrum auction and other communications issues in front of congress tonight on "the communicators" at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. president grover cleveland loses his bid for reelection in 1888, his wife staff --that -- the they did return to the white house, winning the election of 1892. the life of frances cleveland as

we continue our series on first ladies, live tonight at 9:00 eastern on c-span, c-span 3, c- span radio, and sees and outdoor. -- c-span.org shot of the tomb the unknowns at arlington national cemetery. live ceremony, wreathlaying ceremony taking place at 11:00 today with president obama and participation. you can see that on c-span. thefocus this morning for remainder of the day, we will take a look at veterans issues in our first guest joins us, responding, with the u.s. naval academy. fleming, with the u.s. naval academy. he has written a book. welcome. the state goes on, several issues dealing with the military as we speak. how would you give your assessment as far as how the military has fared over these

recent news that we've heard over the last few weeks but things going on within it? guest: things are not looking quite as good as it might how much of put it mildly. we have a problem with the sexual assault. read the newspapers for the past year, and we have had we're should scandal after leadership scandal. and all the services, there have been a record number of leaders removed for nonfeasance or inappropriate behavior, unacceptable behavior. secretary panetta, the last secretary of defense, was quite clear. he said these things have the potential to shake the confidence of the american people normally have in the military leadership. i have to agree with that. i think we are looking at something that needs to be addressed. host: it goes for to the issue of leadership? guest: it does and so far that leadership is something i'm willing to agree exists. recently, i've written about the fact that the word leadership is thrown around as if it were the

snake oil of our time. the military is big on talking about leadership. i am a professor at annapolis could we claim that we make leaders. west point claims -- their phrases something like, the premier leadership institution in the nation and so on. my question is, what is this leadership, and is there a negative side to claiming that we make leaders? i say that there is. the negative side to it is that instead of justifying decisions and instead of having people give good reasons for what they do, i say, that is exercising leadership. all these people who have been removed for malfeasance or an appropriate behavior, unacceptable behavior have all claimed they were leaders. it is something that can be used to whitewash a lot of pills. i think the concept of leadership itself has to be questioned. host: here is the picture of the op-ed. you can find it online. this is "the washington post" -- carry on with the question of

leadership. guest: let me put it in the context of where we are today. this is memorial day, of course. the purpose of memorial day, it is to honor the fallen, those who have died in service of our country. we are still living here, and the best way we can honor the fallen is to produce the most -- not only the most efficient -- the most honorable, most workable officer corps to lead the men and women of the armed forces. for me, this is a way to honor the fallen to say, what can we do better about what we are doing with the military? -- military in recent years we are having the problems, that is the issue, that all of a sudden these things are spiking. all of these things seem to be spiraling out of control. military over and over says we are in control of this, we've got this, leadership this, leadership that. my question is, what exactly are you talking about? we have lots of people who are

using the cloak of what they call leadership to do bad things. there has to be a different way to go at these problems than merely to say, we are going to produce more effective leaders and so on. for me, the answer is rationality. for me, instead of saying, i'm the leader and i'm doing what leaders do, which is leading, it might be completely unacceptable what they are doing, we instead say, what is it? what to expect these people to do? be very clear about these things that are acceptable, and this is not. there is a whole range of unacceptable things that have been coming up from the top branches. we think of the petraeus scandal and someone. he is getting a pension. he has to adhere to the ucmj. big wigs, big bras.. -- big brass. they are using the perks given to them by the taxpayers. commanding officers, this gets

into sexual assault territory, using their positions to get special favors and so on. in a lot of cases, it is aqua hall. -- alcohol. instead of print said -- instead of saying, we produce have to say, what kind of behavior do we want? you have to put it in completely different terms. i call this leadership business of voodoo thing. instead of waving a magic wand, you have to say, what we want a commanding officer to do exactly? how are you supposed to treat your people? be very clear about what the actions are. to me, it is a way of being that any parent who is listening to me will understand what i'm talking about -- you do not use big words with your kids. say, i need this behavior. this behavior will be rewarded, and this behavior will be punished. it is exactly what we should be doing. it is not quite as sexy. it is not, i am being a leader,

i'm doing my thing, but it is going to produce, if we can actually get that through, a much more effective officer corps. as i say, for me, that is the way to honor the fallen because you want to keep the number of fallen to the smallest possible amount. same thing is true with all the isining that the military involved in with the sexual assault business. instead of saying, this is the behavior that is acceptable, and here is why, very specific, the men perceive that the training is going after them. the training is horrible. what is now happening in an attempt to reduce sexual assault. .hat is a kind of subset once again, we have to change our mindset. we have to say, here is what it means to be a commanding officer. here is what is expected of you. you're the acceptable things. the acceptable

things. you have to justify what you do as a commanding officer. host: if you want to ask our guest questions about leadership in the military and issues involving that, your are the numbers to call -- how much of the ideal that you list goes against the culture currently that you see amongst military installations that teach leadership? guest: unfortunately, for me, it goes pretty strongly against that. if you have an institution that is dedicated to producing people from the military, come on, how will they justify their existence? let me explain what i mean. , which isrspective

producing officers for the navy and marine corps, only 20% of the officer corps come from annapolis. that is something people are unaware of. even less at west point. in the marine corps, almost all of us go through ocs, dr. kenneth -- dr. kennedy school. then normal college, officer kennedy's school. if you make it through, and the rate is very high, you are an officer. just as if you spent four years at annapolis or west point. should you not do that? the answer. the majority of officers have gone through one of the other pipelines. or were they taught leadership? we have classes that are called leadership 101, leadership 102. can you be a good leader without a class called leadership? i shrugged my shoulders and rolled my eyes. of course it is. host: you have students taking these types of courses as well. guest: they do not like them. they think they are ridiculous of them -- not

everyone of them -- -- the vast majority say it is a joke. an institution says we are a military institution, how will they justify the fact that they caused incidentally 428 times what other officer reducing sources caused -- four to 8 times what other officer reducing -- producing sources caused? we ought to lay off on that. we ought to say, what do we want them to do? here are the skills involved. , there is an intangible that cannot be taught, which is, charisma, caring for your people. i think i can list what the components of leadership are. like people, you have to like being with your people, and you have to be concerned with them. how will we teach that?

we cannot. that is the whole culture. as soon as you say, we are teaching leadership, it turns into what i called voodoo. it derails. everybody comes out, they passed the court -- the course, they are a leader. they go off and do crazy stuff. host: marcus from pennsylvania on our retired military line for our guest bruce fleming of the u.s. naval academy, and author of "bridging the military- civilian divide." go ahead, mark. caller: this has been going on for a long time. -- brass really does have they consider themselves at her than everybody else, and they get away with a lot. i think you need to punish them and follow through with the punishment and sooner or later, bring them down to earth as far as them representing the military. host: ok, thank you.

mr. fleming? guest: of course i agree that they have outgoing personalities -- you give them more, and they think they are doing it right. they will throw their weight around. it is a systemic flaw as far as i'm concerned. i'm not wild about the word punishment. obviously people who do wrong have to be punished, but at a more fundamental level, what we have to do is change our attitude about how we train, not just the brass, but the troops. what i mean by that is we have to get to the point where the men and women in uniform actually own the things they are aiming at, rather than have it be a top-down punishment thing. that is the way the military traditionally has dealt with problems. that is the way they are dealing with the sexual assault thing. they are coming in big man they are assuming -- big, and they if assuming this stance --

you step out of line, we will have you. men unfortunately believe is aimed at them. they say, we are not rapists. why are you coming on so strong? instead of explain to them, i am a phd professor, this is what i do in the classroom, what they are aiming at. i think that is what the press do. they have not internalized what it is we are aiming at. host: to the idea of investigating sexual assault matters, changing the chain of command? guest: i'm totally for it. in a perfect world, maybe you could trust the commanding officer to make the final call on that, but i am absolutely in favor -- my the word is rationality -- you have outside experts. that is what we have judges for. i think the military ought to be using them much more. it is a way to personalize system. everything is personal command. -- a way too personalized system. everything is personal command. a twitter follower

who asks -- very similar. they are exactly the same for personality type. because ihe, i'm here deserve to be here. that is common in the brass and comment and ceos. see the stripes on the shoulder? god gave me those stripes. it is a mindset. that is what i say. we are dealing with lives in the military. ceos can bankrupt us all, as 2007-2000y did in eight, but at least we are still alive. in the military, it is your kids online. host:. oklahoma -- also, oklahoma, frank on the line. i'm not sure i trust the numbers that have been reported about all of the sexual assaults. i am a disabled veteran. i did not see all that stuff in vietnam. that the obama

administration is very anti- military with the sequester stuff. of course, he tries to blame it on the republicans. they have been trying to turn the military homosexual. they have been trying to take christ out of the military, discharging people who try to convert christianity, promotes islam and all this other stuff, but i would like to ask your guests if you would not mind disclosing his sexual proclivities. host: we will leave it there. none of your concern. you can respond to anything else he brought up if you wish. guest: the point that is valid in the call we just got that i'm willing to say is valid is the issue -- we are now putting under one rubric of sexual assault. it is very his cases.

i think it is a valid question, do we really have as big a problem as it suddenly seems to be? i will tell a story that may not be representative. it might. i have had many male students who have said, sir, you heard about how how the guys banded together and filled out sexual assault questionnaires? they say they had just to get back at the man, as they call him. it is possible that that is general, that the guys are feeling depressed by the training and saying, haha. say we have to been sexually assaulted and so on. obviously these cases that are coming up, the sergeant major at west point among videotaping girls in the shower. . that does not have anything to as i know, a ceo having an affair. even that shows up. or a recruiter.

there are so disparate. we have so many men and women in uniform. the point is valid. i will leave it at that. some oft is valid -- your callers might remember the summer when everyone was attacked by sharks. there were not more shark attacks than normal. that is what everybody was paying attention to. there is some element of that. your chuck hagel, thoughts on leadership as to how he applies it. guest: he is very hands-on. i'm thrilled by the fact that he was an enlisted guy. i like it that we are talking about getting somebody outside the chain of command to look at it. i think he's got his head screwed on right. i liked panetta as well. though, byliticians the same token. i cannot love them too much. they have to talk to a lot of constituents. host: florida, marie on our democrat line. hello. caller: i just wanted to make a

comment. the drinking issue. this is a problem in the military. if sexualering assault is often related to the alcohol these people consume. of course, a lot of closing their eyes to ignore the fact that it is a big problem with alcoholism among these people. is that related to ptsd or something else? who knows? that's it, that is my comment. guest: alcohol has always been a part of american society. it is definitely part of the military. was certain degree, i'm somewhat to a certain degree, i'm somewhat tolerant. i have beer and wine. these guys and gals are under a

lot of stress. if at the end of the day they want to do what i at what -- what i do, slam a beer and have a nap, i cannot say no to that. by the same token, sex and alcohol go together. no question about it. host: for those in the military academy who do not have experience like those inside, -- those outside, what is it like owing to college inside the academy? right. we are a college. we are a four-year undergraduate. arethe service academies for your undergraduate colleges. in the 1960s and 1970s, they got the right to give a bachelor degree. in that sense, we are like going to an rotc program. rotce completely unlike an program and the fact that every aspect of the students lives is completely control. if you ask me what needs to be fixed pronto with the service academy, it would be that. we attract people who are these hardcharging alpha types, and

then we lock them down. every aspect of their life, we tell them what to do. expect them to wear uniforms and so on, but their lives are not their own. have very discontented students, and rightfully so, because they need to be given a longer leash, and they need to own -- they do not own the goal now. that is what i would like. i am a tenured full professor. young assistant professor, not right out of graduate school, but pretty much. 426 years, i've talked to students who resent and do not see the point of what it is they are told. i'm speaking from the heart when i say, if you have this top-down, they call it leadership, but really it is in position, a completely meaningless rules for the sake of rules, strong human beings will rebel. most students do. it is completely unlike a college. you cannot decide that you might think you will study for an exam the next day, but if your company officer says, no, will

be responsible for so and so, you do not study. host: is the message of the military that your life is not your own? guest: it is, but the question is -- for me, the issue is, can we meaningfully combined four years of college with an experience this post the military? -- that is supposed to be military? the problem is mixing the two. as far as i can see, they cancel each other out. is more anht to do rotc experience where you have four years of college, you make your mistakes, and then with open eyes, understanding that things will be different now, you're in the army, or whatever service it is, that you have crossed the line and you are willingly making that sacrifice. right now, we played the military. there is no war at west point or annapolis. , thatortunately ultimately impacts the academic side. host: jan in florida, hello.

hi, i just wanted to make a comment. it seems to me that the morals of our country have fallen. it starts at the top. we are trying to strip any moral hold out of society. they're putting women in with men. and they say, dear, i wonder !hy this thing is happening mr. fleming, you're looking at this from strictly an intellectual point of view, and i know you have a bit of a smirk bout a moral aout code. don wanted us to know about the difference of right and wrong. you're looking at the situation from an intellectual point of view.

host: to that last point? guest: i am unintellectual. i am doing what i am paid to do this country.of i'm a college professor. that is what they do. i do not completely disagree with what the caller said. the question is, with the sexual assault thing, why now? i was on a radio program for couple of days ago where one of the guest was a retired female navy captain, and i said, i try to answer the question of, what we have all these problems now? i think now the attempt is being made to integrate women into absolutely every art of the service. we have women on submarines. the mill ground troops. you look at the thing on the iwo jima memorial which says, for the men who have fallen. i wonder if at some point they will have to go recut that so it says men and women. , why are weems having the problems now?

integrating women into everything good i was accused by this e-mail captain of blaming women for the problems. i was not attempted to do that at all. i was try to say, i think the reason we are having so many problems, there are more women -- not everywhere -- they're much closer to everywhere than they were before. i think that is a good point. host: wayne from texas, the democrats line. caller: hello. good morning. i have a quick question. i am a former marine. i also work in law-enforcement. is the factnoticed that these personalities, the people at the top, they seem to feel like the rules apply to everybody else but not me good we have seen that -- but not me. we've seen that with the financial situation. now we see it in the military. what do you do about that ,ttitude where, i am at the top

and the rules apply to everybody but me? from a law-enforcement standpoint, it seems like unless the rules are straggly enforced from the top down, you get this attitude of impunity. notn do whatever i want and pay for it. how do deal with that? i will give the answer again. you stop talking about what i call these two things about leadership. you stop telling them they're going to be leaders, that you had made them leaders. is right up there. that i am for character. as soon as you start saying, here is your good housekeeping seal of approval you have good character, anything goes. we have to talk about what we actually want you to do. the job-specific things and what on