tv Washington Journal CSPAN May 28, 2013 7:00am-10:01am EDT
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division. and later, a senior white house author ofents and the "prisoners in the white house." ♪ host: congress is out of washington this week, back in their states and districts to marked memorial day yesterday. president obama goes to the jersey shore to tour the rebuilding efforts. 1:30 easternn at time. education secretary arne duncan will join education advocates on the future of learning i and the digital world. for our discussion here this morning, the economy. reports show improvement with
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the deficit lowering in state's spending more. how is the economy where you live? is it improving? for democrats, 202-585-3880. for republicans, 202-585-3881. for independents, 202-585-3882. send us a tweet, go to twitter.com/c-spanwj. or you can post your comments on facebook.com/c-span, or send us an e-mail at journal@c-span.org. let me begin with "the washington times," this morning. "timing on taxes helps to halve the deficit."
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cbo numbersose showing that the economy is improving. is it improving or you live? that is the question for all of you this morning. for democrats, 202-585-3880. for republicans, 202-585-3881. for independents, 202-585-3882. callsl get to those phone in just a minute, but remember you can send your comments on twitter.com/c-spanwj, or you can post your comments on facebook.com/c-span. here are some of those, there is a pole at the top. is the economy improving where
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caller: more hiring signs, that kind of thing. to hundred $50,000 in -- 250,000 jobs in this first term but he has not produced much for manufacturing. all he does is run around the country and act like he wants to run for president. i think we would be doing better last would have had our governor. but you can tell it is getting better. host: your state government, what is the budget level like? caller: he balanced the budget, that is one thing that he did. host: what was it like at the height of the recession compared to now? caller: it was terrible. things were shut down.
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wisconsin rapids, all over the place. while pretty bad for a there. that theer mills, is big industry in the area? there is a company from canada ripping it out right now. host: do you know how much those jobs pay in that area? caller: when i lost my job it was like 19, $20 per hour. host: is housing coming back? caller: big time, yes. few signs forad a houses for sale when the recession was around, but you do not see that no more. i think that is a big turnaround. host: we will go to market next.
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mark, what is the economy like in illinois? you that the tell economy is not going to get any better as long as the price of gasoline is what it is. we need to get rid of this corporate monopoly that has taken over this country. politicians in the system, all of these corporations just giving billions of dollars. cars, you cannot afford anything. they are 10 times what they should cost. food is 12 times what it should cost. gasoline is the price that is because our congress back in 1973, when we had the first gas crisis people approach to the saudis coming to this country to open gas stations.
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6 cents per gallon? appellees and home depot in these other countries is ok, but having the government passed a law that says the only people that can import to this country are the three major oil companies. the reason gases what it is is because of our government. is our system of government. host: got it. what is gas prices in your area? close to $4 per gallon. as long as it stays that way, things are never going to get better. host: kathleen, go ahead. caller: southwestern pennsylvania, it does not seem like the economy is getting better. your last caller talked about homes. we still have homes with for sale signs, people moving trying to find jobs.
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your kids are not allowed -- not around. everyone hated the meals, but those were good, middle-class jobs. i do not see any good middle- class jobs anymore. right now i lost my job and am trying to get another part-time job so that i can make my bills. i cannot even make my bills anymore. i am an older person, i am hoping i do not have trouble getting at least part-time jobs, but it is a kind of scary proposition. i kind of blame our government as well, like the last person, but for another reason. they are putting some ,egulations, so many demands like this obama care, that they are stifling, stopping the small businesses, stifling people starting out. we just do not have a free economy any more to let us go to
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try to make jobs. that is what i am afraid of. host: on the mills in your city, did they start to shut down before the recession? caller code this was way before. but nothing ever came to replace it. host: a trend in the making for your community specifically. caller: we are called the rust belt, and that is very possibly a part of it. but that does not mean we do not have other types of jobs. from pittsburgh, pa. on down people were trying to create jobs. host: what kind of jobs are you seeing replace the mill jobs that used to be in your area? caller: there are these little companies trying to start up. my cousin works for a small company is doing well. but you cannot, you are just not seeing a lot of little companies. right now i am trying to find a
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part-time job for the summer and i cannot even do that. i have been working part time and cannot find anything. it is just hard out here. if our government could just lift off the pressure, you know, quit pushing us down and let those small businesses go do what they need to do. maybe we will be able to bring our part of the state back. host: got it. this poll came out on friday from cnn, an international survey saying that one-third of the public saying economic conditions are good right now, up 7% from the 26% who felt that way in december, and the 67% who rate conditions as poor is down from the end of last year. is the economy improving where you live? that is the question for you this morning. there are the phone numbers on our screen.
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i wanted to show you some other headlines as well. front page of "the washington post" has this headline from overseas. "the obama administration policy in syria under pressure. hurdle blocked the flow to rebel groups." host: some headlines this morning and syria. -- on syria. "om "the baltimore sun," chemical reports amidst fighting." russian diplomats renewed push for peace
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negotiations." here is a picture of senator john mccain before entering syria. he called for patriot missiles for jordan while attending the world economic forum before he went into syria to talk about the situation there. so, that is the latest on syria, perhaps some other headlines for you as well, the president is headed to the jersey shore today to look at rebuilding efforts. on recovery, "giving the president a chance for a three-point play that can move him ahead of the recent controversies."
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host: back to our question for all of you, is the economy improving for you where you live? mark, what is the name of your town? caller: it is called antioch, tennessee. right outside of nashville. national,t outside ok. what is it like there. is it improving? caller: i have not heard any good news here lately. thetched c-span and all news, have been since i was 18 or 19, and i am 80 right now. i keep up with things. or i tried to. it seems like there is a lot of people that they talked to on these different shows and everything, they are not even keeping up with the news, you
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know? host: how does that relate to what we are talking about right now? caller: i just wanted to say that i wish everyone of would start listening to the news and to know what is going on in their own country as well as other places. host: got it. we would want to bill in illinois. what is your economy like there? aller: we hadn't -- we had wealthy entrepreneur, a former resident, coming back to the city and he dumped millions into the city, but it does not reflect the fact that our unemployment rate is still pretty much above the national average. off thanobably better most cities around us because of that, but the democratic run chicago state of illinois, those policies have killed this state and are killing and now. our politicians have been
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toking for two years redefine the enormous attention deficit that is killing our states at the local levels and throughout the state. we also have one of the most unfriendly climate due to our governor. anybody in the state of illinois that would boat for any of these incumbent state representatives would have to be out of their mind or related to them, because they have done nothing. can you imagine the state representative going to the to try tor two years hammer out and fix a $100 billion pension deficit in the state and they have done nothing? it is ridiculous, it has hurt the business economy, and the climate for the whole state. host: you have said that it
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hurts the business environment. are you not seeing for higher signs like we have seen from the first caller? caller: it is the fact that therecaller: it is the fact that there are a lot of small businesses in the peoria area that want to hire people, but the state policies are just so against -- you know, they are so against it. they do not give tax breaks or incentives and it is hurting our state. host: on the federal level this week -- -- tweaked -- -- tweet -- host: keith, hello. what is the economy like? good innot really idaho. i would like to say that wherever these jobs are going, you could call an 800 number to get service on anything you have and you are going to get
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someone who speaks to you in indian. or some foreign language. jobs, these call center which are middle-class jobs, they would be pretty good paying jobs in the united states. they have all been sent to india and these other countries. host: got it. what are the jobs in your area? what type? some of thoseare call center jobs. we were a nuclear area. because we are a one-party state, that has not grown any. republicans, if they are in charge it is a one-party state, so if you have a contested race are, or ohio, say, which is nuclear state, they are not going to give the project to idaho because they know they will win idaho by a landslide
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anyway. democrats will not send anything to idaho because they know they will lose in idaho overwhelmingly. any industry that gets federal funding does not stand a chance when we had a mixed congressional delegation we had 18,000 employees out there, now we are down to like five or something like that. host: alright, we will keep taking your phone calls this morning about what -- what the economy is like relive. for sale signs coming down in your area? people eating out? do you see for sale signs? we are reading stories this morning saying that the economy is improving. we want to hear directly from you outside washington. ben bernanke testified about the economy last week on capitol hill.
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here is some back-and-forth with him and one member of congress about where we're headed. [video clip] >> the slowness of the economy can be explained by a number headwinds. problems in europe, the housing market, and importantly the fact that fiscal policy has been a significant head wind rather than a supporting tailwind. i would submit that with that -- without monetary policies, this recovery would be weaker than it has been. if you compare our recovery to that of europe and other advanced economies, it looks relatively good. employment, to monetary policy cannot influence unemployment, which is certainly correct, address here is the short run cyclical gap.
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currently the economy is operating at a level below what it is capable of operating at with many people out of work who would normally be at work, it can help put people back to work in the short run, in the long run increasing the potential growth of the economy is not the job of the fed, that is the job of the private sector and congress in terms of the tax code, investment in infrastructure, training, all the things that help create more growth potential. >> thank you. i will point out that monetary policy has limits. quantitative easing has run its course. i have yet to media business who tells me that if those long-term rates were just lower i would be hiring more. that is just not happening. it really is fiscal issues, from high for tax increase regulation that is extraordinarily burdensome to the health-care laws creating a great deal of uncertainty today.
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host: that was ben bernanke testifying last week. we are asking you all of the economy is improving where you live. from twitter -- way, if you missed the chairman's testimony before the joint economic committee, you can go to our website and go to the video library, you will find the whole thing right there. the front page of "the washington post."
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host: jackie speer was on c- span recently talking about the letter. you can find it in our archives, c-span.org. the three week marked up from the senate judiciary, that bill is expected to go to the floor in june. "gang ofthe headline -- a outmanoeuvres opponents of immigration reform -- 8 outmanoeuvres immigration reform." is part of the strategy to get around those who would not like to see the strategy past. thedetroit free press,
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immigration debate, "what is at stake in michigan"? host: the chairman of the senate judiciary committee in vermont dropped an amendment dealing with same-sex partners from that immigration bill, the gay groups were upset with that, but the headline in "the new york times" this morning is a "immigrant measures still backed by give -- by gay groups." "the overall still contains measures that benefit gay immigrants." that is what "the new york times" has to say about that this morning. jerry in stafford, virginia. republican, go ahead with your comments about your community. what is the economy like?
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caller: we had some downturn with the recession and the housing bubble, but by and large it is still a government town on the median and higher end. believe thatid, i small businesses right now, in conversation with friends who are still being held down, talking with two small business still notey are looking to hire and expand, even though they have excess capital right now, certainly because of the obama care act and requirements for the expanded health care for employees, they are having to look carefully at how many employees they can have. the other part want to talk about is to the extent of the conversation is about rebuilding the middle class, that is really geared towards rebuilding the union based employees.
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the new middle class of the future cannot be union based because the union is simply not competing in the global economic market. to the extent that people invest in training, education, and technology, improving themselves as opposed to the unions to give them the 20 to $40 per hour jobs, those people that invest in education and take responsibility for themselves, those of the ones who're going to achieve in the growing economy. right now we are seeing the government more interested in propping up the union based economy so we will only have union growth until the government gets out of the way. host of you said that stafford is mainly a union tech -- mainly a government town? caller: it is outside washington, d.c., so many people make the commute, housing is relatively affordable here as opposed to areas that are
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closer. host: do you mind telling us what you do? caller: government employee. host: you make the commute yourself? caller: yes. host: where do you work? caller: i would rather not say. host all right. tyrone, good morning. caller: most jobs that we get at this time of year, the overall job rate, things could get better people will learn to pull together. if they would stop playing political games. we just need to pull together. have to take money to get out of the recession. if they would pull together and stop playing the race card. host: can i ask you about the dagger culture jobs? what kind of industries? caller: we have a chicken farm, purdue oultry meal --
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poultry meal, old farm land. hourlyo you know the wages? caller: minimum-wage. host: ok. are these workers coming in and out of your community? caller: yes. host: what do you do for us a living? caller: retired, the part of corrections. host: bill, rhode island. caller: how're you doing? host: good morning. caller: i am from windsock. it is really bad in rhode island. the government does not think so, they have given the aids a thee, but i think we have second highest unemployment rate in the country. host: why is that, do you think? caller: our businesses are moving away. they are all closing down.
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collectively massachusetts next door is at 6% unemployment. that is where i work. host: all right, what do you do? caller could direct care. host: are you like many in your community? going over to the next state to look for jobs? have noode yes, we choice. there is nothing in the island. in fact i am from the town that you guys did that story unsnap from. host: ok. i mean, that is why it is so high. there is no work. host all right, windsock, ryland, thank you. -- host: all right, windsock, rhode island, thank you. this on twitter -- host: you can send us your tweets if you go to twitter.com/c-spanwj.
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we are talking about whether or not the economy is improving renew live. paper declaring that it is improving nationwide. "as the washington times" this morning -- host: we are getting your take on the economy where you live and whether or not you are seeing improvement in that. other headlines from the front page of "the new york times," this morning.
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host: speaking of the court, here is the atom with that piece from "the new york times -- adam from "the new york times." host: we will return to all of you and getting your comments on it -- getting your comments on the economy and whether or not it is improving. tom, anaheim, tell us about it. caller: things as still pretty slow. retail sales are really, really down in orange county.
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i went to the local mall, it is really just slow. it is all about california marketing. host: what do you think is going on? caller code nothing. it is all -- caller: nothing. it is all talk of the real- estate market here. there are no peeper -- no people in my neighborhood. there is a false market. even people in real estate said they cannot put the houses on the market in orange county. good.not good, not host: north fort myers, florida, go ahead. you are on the air. caller: ok. in sun coast, a small area in north fort myers. and we high unemployment
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have a large retirement area. the only ones making money are the ones that the top. the thing is that the average income here for a working person is $7.25. the next time that you go into a store with a democrat or anything, ask how much they're making. we cannot support our families, we cannot pay for health care. any problem, any illness, oneitals troubled by primary agent. so, no matter what the working man cannot get ahead. i was the banquet capt. at the westin hotel in detroit.
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host: this is a topic that we have been covering here on "the washington journal." we had the american petroleum institute on and members of congress last week who were against the pipeline, all in our video library, c-span.org, if you are interested in that debate. decades later, "back to the hill." a profile piece.
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jeff, phoenix, arizona, hello. what is it like in phoenix? caller: it is great. i am almost scared to open my mouth. host: why do you say that? caller, maybe everyone will come here. we have a shortage of available housing. 30%ing has gone up 10% to in the last three years. this is one of the best years of my life. host: why? financially, things are going great.
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we standa call center, some appointments throughout the country. -- we stenciled of appointments throughout the country. do auto glass and solar. host to we heard from the previous caller discussing any sort of service. host: we heard other previous comes to are it point in setting and -- of the previous callers mention this. caller: phoenix's the place to go. i have seen call centers opening from canadian investors, new york investors. i do not want to go too deeply into what i am doing, but it has been great.
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thank you. host: we are talking about whether or not the economy is improving for you live. front-page story of "of the washington post" this morning -- story of "of the washington post" this morning. -- "the washington post" this morning. host: a story about the impact of sequestration. " washington journal -- "the wall street journal" this morning has this story, "president welcomes overture to congress."
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host: when it comes to drone policy specifically, our recent guest on "newsmakers" discussed the process on drum usage. want to listen to that, again, go to c-span.org and our video library for that. to jerry next. ohio, hello, gerry. caller: thank you so much. i know that there are a lot of women in dentistry. secretary, even not see too many men there. house and weg a got the siding from china. it was plastic. dino, there are a lot of jobs in
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china. they want to build diffracting pipeline across the state -- a fracking pipeline across the state. host: are you for it? caller: transporting oil? a risky business. know, any more. host: front page of "the wall street journal" this morning, thec, a deepening split on petroleum exporting countries, threatening to drive a wedge between african and arab members as they grapple with the revolution. they will confront a disagreement over the impact of rising u.s. shale production, more vulnerable countries declaring that they should prop up prices if they fall lower.
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host: we will go on to brandon in dover, delaware. hello. caller: how are you doing today? host: good morning. caller: the economy is not good in delaware. in dover, the southern part of delaware, they are not good at all. servicegh to go to the to make minimum wage. it happened to me. i was voluntarily at delaware state university. i volunteered for three years. they asked me to be hired on. i did not ask to be hired. pay.ked for two years for i did not have to fill out an application or anything. once they figured out i had a
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felony from 15 years ago, i was fired on the spot. i do not understand. you have a lot of people walking around with minor charges that cannot but a job anywhere. host: we will leave it there. from "the washington times," "uncle sam trying to hire openings at bowling alleys." washington"the times," if you are interested. that does it for the economy. by the way, if you have a topic that you would like us to tackle, send us your suggestions. , oro journal@c-span.org send us a tweet at twitter.com/c-spanwj. we continue this morning looking at the irs targeting
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conservative groups. marcus owens, director of irs operations from 1999 to 2000 will join us next. a longtime white house reporter will be here to join us to discuss his new book on the presidency. we bill be right back. ♪ [video clip] >> id and with integrity because it is so essential to who and what you will -- >> i begin with integrity because it is so essential to who and what you will become. you may be surprised with where life takes you. i certainly was. in the end, it is not only what
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we do, but how we do it. >> you know i have to start with treating this. give me one second -- tweeting this. i am a professional, just give me a second. when i woke up this morning to think about my speech i thought about my first month on campus. the football team went into that season ranked no. 1 in the nation preseason and i remember that september when i got here there was all this excitement on campus. our first game was at wisconsin. we went up there and we lost our first game, 21 to 14. there was a crushing disappointment afterwards. i want you to think of that soaring expectations followed by crushing disappointment as a metaphor for your next 20 minutes with me.
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administration, state, and local officials delivering commencement addresses, saturday at 8:30, business leaders, including dick costello and steve was react. find more commencement speeches online ad c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: and we are back with marcus owens, former director of the irs'exam organization division from nine -- irs' ex fromorganization division 1999 to 2000. from the headlines everyone knows about this division, but what is it? guest: it is -- good morning, thank you for having me this morning -- it is a part of the division responsible for applying the federal income tax rules to these organizations. there are a number of different
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organizations that impact with 370 pages the go with the law. how big is this division? guest: it has 800 to 900 people in it. host: what is the history of it? taxt of the first income law was provided for these organizations. back intions emerged the early 1970's. in congress, in the wake of the scandals that resulted in the tax reform act of 1969. host: what about the 1942 law that created social welfare organizations? what was the impact of that? how does that relate to today?
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guest: it has designed an internal revenue code. enough, the idea for 501c4 came from the u.s. chamber of commerce. represents industry in the united states. host: what was the motivation then? guest: to find a place for organizations that were not businesses, not charities, but they were doing something that benefit the community. they created this category of welfare organizations to satisfy that need. what did the arrest -- 1998 restructuring reform act do? irs threed foot the major reorganization.
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that with the of irs through a major reorganization. a consolidation, if you will. it also created a hierarchy, a said the silos for the operations. all the organizations that were not businesses or individuals fell under that category. tax-exempt organizations. host: when did this organization moved to cincinnati? was it in washington before? guest: there has always been an outpost in cincinnati. a large city with a service center coming into kentucky, the
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processing of applications for exemption was centralized back in the 1990's, primarily for economic reasons. at the time the internal revenue service was having trouble hiring and in new york, los angeles, san francisco, chicago. but in cincinnati they could hire. the processing of applications, which tends to involve greater personnel and other types of tax enforcement was central out of cincinnati. host: do you think that it being in cincinnati, oh did to what we saw, the investigation of the inspector general, this led to the problem that we saw? has a lot to do with distance and placement in management structure.
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basically, difficulties with management communications in the wake of reorganization that officially happened in 1998 but was carried on for a number of years after that. host: talk about that a bit more, the distance. guest: the distance butnot so much a literal, it was there, but in terms of oversight the office had a higher degree of independence as a result of some of the restructuring. a delegation of authority to that field office to take action, with consolidations, additional consolidations in the early 2000's being driven by financial limitations on the surface. andnumber of safeguards requires, things that had a
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certain redundant affects and frankly the effect of slowing down the work, as they provided checking on the workflow. the further increased effective responsibility of the cincinnati office over the workflow, taking the national office out of the picture a bit more. host: what were the tripwires? thet: historical before reorganization, in the national lawce, specialists and tax for this particular sub- specialty of tax law, suddenly the rules and guidelines for processing applications and handling other work, the washington office is aware of what is happening in congress and in the world and generally
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in developing tax law but in the court system. whereas the cincinnati office is a processing operation, an assembly line that moves the applications where they get 60,000 to 70,000 in the year. to stay onesigned top of what is going on. 2000's the ability of the office to set margin order, the lawyers in washington were dramatically reduced, placing the responsibility on a group in lessnnati that was sort of attuned to what was happening. host: our viewers are familiar with the name lois learner now, she headed up the irs division that targeted these conservative groups.
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from 1990 to 2000 she was involved in the division for many years, leading up to being director. if you have questions about how this can about or how the division works, call in, we want to hear from you. for democrats, 202-585-3880. for republicans, 202-585-3881. for independents, 202-585-3882. let me begin again with the 501c4. how did it originated and evolved? guest " there is not a lot of legislative history about why it was enacted, but it was intended to be a place for those businesses that were not commercial entities or charities. it has evolved over time in a number of ways. during the 1920's and 1930's
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organizations were formed to provide services to provide health care to the average person. the blue cross, blue shield, for example. social welfare organizations providing health insurance, a commodity not available to the average person at the time. inc4's were also involved lobbying activity. some of the early court decisions involved organizations that were politically active on women's health issues. they found themselves in the court system before world war ii. after that they evolved a bit, beginning in the 1980's, with the moral majority and jerry falwell, a number of entities
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became much more political in nature. been issuealways advocacy groups that became 501c4's. for example, the naacp, the national rifle association, they have been for many years. they're focused on many issues advancing those issues. in the 1980's we began to see many more overtly political organizations in the wake of the moral majority. you had pat robertson and his , aided in nobid that part by a 501c4 morton to the christian coalition. at the same time bill clinton used the leadership council on the other side of the political spectrum to build his base in
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the democratic party. so, you have this sort of evolving mix of politics and public policy that began in the 1980's and continued on until the present day. that is a good question. congress basically gave the treasury department no choice. you are quite right that when used theas enacted it word "exclusive" in describing the types of activities. in 1950 congress enacted a tax that provides for a tax on the unrelated business income of otherwise tax exempt organizations. this was a statutory change brought about by the fact that
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university law school began operating the macaroni company subsidiary.mpt congress enacted this rule that they canrwise undertake activities other than social where fair activities. they can do something that is purely commercial in nature. in order to recognize those conflicting statutes, the treasury department in 1959 drafted regulations stating that the word "exclusive" really meant primary. tax had enacted opposite provisions. >> how does the irs figure out primarily dax collects that is a very good question. and -- how does the irs figure out primary?
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>> site is a very good question. they look at how it organizes its activities. the irs will also evaluate volunteer time. that is a if a cold intellectual task to do that. it is a fact to her, particularly if that organization is using a huge number of volunteers. host: go ahead. caller: i think the tax exempt tax code should be done away with. we always hear the politicians think everyone should do their fair share but you have all these different foundations. look at the books. they are giant books. hear from the politicians is that everyone
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should pay their fair share. i believe everyone should pay their fair share. if you do away with that whole part of the irs, you just did away with tax exempt. guest: there is a certain truth to that. tactics and corporations are deeply embedded in the judeo history. if you go to tack sister you can find references to tax exempt organizations in the old testament of the bible. and pharaoh, he levied a tax on egypt to prepare for the famines. that was on everything but the lands of the priest. you find references to tax exempt organizations.
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for them tole change. we are really talking about a form of human interaction. they have the roots of very deep in civilized society. 501c3.here are how many different tax exempt codes are there? 29501cs and a couple of other miscellaneous tax exempt ones as well. host: are there big differences between all 29? how do they differentiate? all of the above. they share a number of similar characteristics. some of the different organizations deal with the and -- dealp insurance
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with things like crop insurance or things that are dramatically different in organization. do not let servants congress push you around. push back into not tower. kevin, republican collar. caller: i think you touch on this earlier. should any organization have to pay taxes. for theould be individual citizen. if you eliminate corporate income tax at eliminate all taxes on charity. you let them go at it. it is a failure of the legislation. i dealt with the irs. i found it would be very
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pleasant and professional. i've never had problems with them. that is an interesting concept. wouldd imagine that there be a lot to debate over the point at which profits have to be distributed from those organizations. they would be tax exempt so they would be taxable as individuals. beyond the intellectual grasp of the lawmakers if they choose to go in that direction. extend there is that the change would be so significant as to have disruption in the economy that the cost of the transition would be more than the value that would be obtained from its. does the identity of donors affected the exempt status? --t
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guest: that is a factor. there was a case called american campaign academy. it dealt with an educational organization, not a welfare entity. the organization was spun out of the republican party. its purpose was to train republican candidates and their staffs or elected office. one they found to be significant is that the funding came for the -- came from the ove party. show: she was on the earlier and spoke of the type of information required by the iris for them to obtain their 501c4.
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clip] >> they did not do with it throughout 2011. they sent an eight page letter asking for all sorts of information from us including e- mails we had sent out. and the comments on our facebook page. what any fan or any person on facebook that happened to comment on our actions put there, who our donors were. we have 400,000 donors. our average donation size is around $50. the vast majority are allowed to be kept confidential. they have no business asking for that information. host: is that true? guest: it is not.
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the irs is required to ask for any information necessary to fill out the ambiguities in any particular application. i have not reviewed her organization's application. it sounds like it is in process. did obtainrk times" a sample of applications from tea party groups and reviewed this about them. a lot of them did imitate that did would be engaged in not seem to realize it was political activity. it was one where the organization thought that thisity only consisted of on radio television. for this.amiliar i am guessing this was probably
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filled out by someone who is not a tax professional. it probably involved in the qa statement. the source of the funds can be significant in determining whether it is a political surface being served. a firm.u work for you help people apply for tax- exempt status. have you heard of requiring they spoke posting and those from your fans as well? we started to see that. a tax exempt organization communicates with the public or with its members it is creating a tax record. historically, it has been in the form of newsletters, journals, newspapers, things of that nature.
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those all indicate what an organization does with its money. with the advent of social media, each of those communication devices is creating a tax record. what the irs has not done is, aggregated rules. the irs should address that and step up to the plate. organizations need to understand that when they postings on a website, when they postings on facebook or the , they are creating a tax record. if the irs deems it important they on other evidence, have the right to see that. to do not need the irs seal. they help in fundraising.
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this raised of a 5 million this year to help advance president obama's policies. what can they do here? >> that is a very good observation. 501c4 does not require them to apply for that status. it can be self declared. thousands of organizations have done just that. the application for exemption is only necessary if the .rganization want assurance that assurance is important if road theydown the wor decide that the organization does not fit with in that code section. if that is the case and they theyosed the activities, are protected from retroactive applications.
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leaders said party in the articles "it gets assurances to your donors that you will not be treated as a political organization and their identities will not be disclosed to the public." since the corporations have little to no income and since donations are not deductible, where is the tax advantage? ones that arere will small. there are a number of those that are quite large. if you look at the american association of retired persons, these are very large .rganizations with you can have income from earned
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revenue. can be from the sales of goods or services to the public here i. is it for ammon congressman to request you when you formally age or actor of when youax exempt -- were formerly the director of the iris tax exemption? we would get correspondence from members of congress every day of the year. members of congress are as quick to step up to carry the message to every other government agency. not a day went by that i did not hear from one of them. host: democratic caller. i am a little confused about something. ,hese tea party applications
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why is it they feel they should not be monitored for the deduction? it does not make sense to me. everybody is monitored for something. you cannot tell. their view is that they were monitored illegally. other groups have been monitored and have not been given that attention. a goodthat is observation. my guess is that the tea party groups feel that they were singled out and did not deserve to be singled out. i think that is a bit of an overstatement from their perspective. it is important to understand that these organizations are part of a political movement and the irs website lists about 64 organizations now that used the
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words "tea party" in their names. they are political parties. they are committees. is tea party movement composed of organizations that are political in nature. 's job to sort those out and make sure they have the right tax status. did andwhat the irs what the irs has to do. ohio, independent caller. caller: can you hear me? thank you. not long ago you had a question concerning the same idea here with the tax exempt groups. there was a guy from ohio who worked for the iressa and
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retired. for theonse was that -- iraq us and retired. his response was that this is what they do. this is just business. this is how it is done. what do you mean by that? caller: when our past vice president and president committed treason, where were they then? guest: one of the things that attracted me to that part of the irs is that it does not involve tax law. it involves all the human emotions. it involves people relation. it involves healthcare, education, politics, everything
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that said human beings apart -- sets human beings apart as forms of life. it is a really fascinating area. because it does impact so many oh, it is always a source of controversy. right.uite i arrested the agency that has been charged with administrating that tax law. the agency endeavors to go about that business. guest: maybe they do not have to ask. isn't it less likely they will be audited if it has first sought out that 501(c)(4) approval? yes package requires them them to things
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automatically. the source of activities that are appropriate, the the types of tax exemptions and the activities that are not. it is a learning process. filing anerall application does help. host: what do you think about ms. lerner taking the fifth? choice.he had no they were calling for statements illegal. she had no choice. it waso you think illegal or inappropriate what was happening? thing i havely noticed illegal here are the threats that some of the employees had received of having been named in media reports. that is the only illegal
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activity i have seen. the other activity seems to be a ofbination of inadvertence this understanding of what the internal revenue code rules are. i cannot speak to the accuracy of statements before congress. i did not hear that on the first go around. i suspect that there were not misstatements there. threats down to the against government bullies. host: you are hearing about these personally? guest: i have heard of them. i have to deal with the irs every day of the year. that is my job. i know certain employees had received threats on their home phones and things of that nature. they are concerned about their families. host: explain the culture difference between tax exempt division and the rest of the irs which is charged with
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getting money. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] you put your finger on it. organization deals with organizations that are exempt from income tax. there is a fundamental distinction. they do pay some amount of tax. small amount collected by the government. is more aon regulatory one. that is really different from the activities. , was it director
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difficult to get the attention of your leaders? it was never difficult to get their attention. the organization division can guarantee that you would have headlines on any newspaper. it did make it difficult to get resources. ofis a rational allocation scarce resources. a dollar to spend on a revenue agent. higher revenue agents to do tax exempt organizations. it will not generate revenue even if you broke the status of the organization. host: roses waiting in long island. independent caller. thanks for waiting on the line. caller: would you please discuss the court case decision
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on citizens united and how it did affect the applications 501(c)(4)for section exemption? the organization citizens united is in itself a 501(c)(4). the supreme court case dealt with federal elections, not tax law. the decision did not impact the way tax law is administered or the way tax law is interpreted. it did attack attention to the tax law and how section ) could serve as public policy debate. that is what citizen united
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actually did. caller: they key for listening to my opinion. i've heard a lot to talk about the legal and illegal but no talk about the constitution. people applying to the iressa should feel that they are equal under the constitution. -- i are rest should feel that they are equal under the constitution and it feels that they do not feel like they were treated equally. do awaye would be to deal with all of this activity. you can communicate with your own members only in the most narrow way possible. how do you communicate? a magazine.nra has i am sure they know their members.
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knows who their members are. they can communicate with them by better. they can only do it with their own members. if they want to announce a website to donate political money, that is fine. host: ok. guest: you are quite right. that is a statutory change and would have taken politics out of world.(c)(4) it would require congressional action. ihenalluded to earlier reference the democratic leadership committee and the 501(c)(4)s on the right side of the spectrum, also was of political parties and if it. .epublicans -- from it republicans, democrats, and everything in between. i do not see congress precluding political activity.
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could you be more clear and specific about what goes into determining "primary" political activities for a 501(c)(4)? guest: i wish i could. i used to have a staff of 100 lawyers. when i was director. it is not an easy question to answer as clearly. these applications take longer than the average application. these are top calls. what the irs are the activities they plan to engage in. the [applause] has to make a call of
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whether they are political in nature, whether they constitute law or some sort of private benefits. is the purpose of the organization really to promote someone's book or a business or something of that nature? the irs has to get at those factors by asking questions. host: are they figuring it out on a percentage basis? guest: i think as a rule of some, percentage is based on expenditures does give the an idea. it does give volunteers organizations that are large mass movement organizations and whether it involves seeking a cure for disease or protecting
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the environment or the second amendment. furthering those ideas. it can produce tens of thousands of people who were all volunteers. that has to be taken into the calculations. host: do they? does. the irs it is more of a factor where it .s a very close call you are up close to that 50% line. it is not such a factor when the political activity is down in the 20% range. host: democratic caller. caller: hello there. i would liken to comment if that was one organization is out in salt lake city. $4 billion in
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businesses that pay no taxes. this outfit of the mormon they owned enough money to finance the referendum against. well. we were on this conversation this morning. this was a law congress enacted back in 1950. they did so after discovering that new york university is a macaroni factory. it keeps tuition down. it has a high quality legal organization.
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that standard calls upon the iressa to examine and analyze to examine and analyze the corporations and assess whether they have a substantial causal relationship. you have some situations where they run commercial activities supports in a way that their otherwise tax exempt mission. there is a university that has a restaurant and management school. you can get an undergraduate or graduate degree in how to run a hotel or manage a restaurant. one of the activities of the university is to train students. using students.
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they get credit for hands-on learning experience. that sort of commercial activity is a related activity even though it is a business and generate a profit. that is exactly the call congress requires the irs to make an tax exempt corporations to make on their own initially. host: here's a headline from last wednesday. what do you make of this lawsuit? guest: the lawsuit is intended to change the way the internal revenue code is interpreted by the irs. my sense is it probably does
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not have a great chance for success. a number of technical reasons for that. issue here iss not one of interpretation of the law. it is the way the law has worded itself. to the use of the followedlusive in 1913 by 1915. organizations can do something than exclusively operate for exempt purposes. s it was further complicated when congress enacted one that says otherwise tax exempt organizations other than charities can engage in political activity. on thes has served
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statutes that say it can be exempt. they can have unrelated business income and political activity. balancing those is not an easy task. that can bemething dealt with effectively by regulatory change. if there is change it has to begin with a statute. , theren lois lerner were stories in the paper last week that when she learned about what was happening in cincinnati she asked them to stop immediately what they were doing and then there was work changing. what is the protocol? a lot ofe been discussions about who knew what and when. what is the protocol when you are the director of the division for notifying those above you? guest: as in any large organization, those in
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management have to make judgment calls about what is appropriate information to elevate to the superiors within the organization. it is always a judgment call. it is not always made correctly. it usually is nothing more than bad judgment when it does not happen appropriately. 's report wasost attempting to change the behavior. the restructuring that gave cincinnati greater authority under its own workflow. the management structure was not making it easy for her to enforce those standards. host: was she in washington or cincinnati question. the management communication systems were not facilitating her being the direct or.
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-- director. they consistently do less for the liberal groups? do you believe there was no targeting? a clientactually had whose application got caught up in this. they were a non--political organization. was the hook. if i had to characterize the politics i would call them slightly left of center. are leftainly were not or right of center. they got the same long list of questions including the question about this. they eventually got tax exempt status. the irs did sweep up left of center groups and ignite exemption to a number -- and he denied exemption to a number.
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you cannot tell who the organization was. the organization eventually did come forward and disclosed that it was a recipient of those denials. the word "target" is significant. the use of that term was inappropriate. ill considered. the targeting, let me describe how it occurred. it started with the irs opening the mail. that is hardly targeting. these are filed voluntarily by organizations. to use self target terminology from the political campaign. the irs has to allocate work dependent on the difficulty. how this applies is not an easy task.
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it gives the ones that are tough to the people with the most experience. they decided to do this in parts of nomenclature. is ineffective and that it does not capture all organizations that will be dabbling in politics. it does capture some. 64 tea party groups have identified as political organizations. a political organization must file within 24 hours of being informed. from the get go, 64 groups knew they were going to be politically active organizations and filed appropriately. you arere the irs looking at 64 organizations that have that terminology that are identified as political. you have others coming in. it is appropriate for the irs to make an inquiry as to what their intentions are.
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host: marcus owens, the former director of exempt divisions is now at kaplan here in washington, dc. thank you for talking to our viewers. we appreciate it very much. guest: you're welcome. , it can welshp will be here to speak of his new book "prisoners of the white house: the isolation of america's presidents and the crisis of leadership." first a news update from c-span radio. advisor is security in china to strengthen relations between the u.s. and chinese military ahead of a summit between president obama and the xi jinping. the size it should boost cooperation and non-military activities including disaster relief and fighting piracy.
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the u.s. weapons systems have been compromised by chinese hackers. forbes tweeps is not just twine up. s.d indian hacker group turning to domestic issues, seven months after sandy, the red cross has not spent more $3 millionree of the a raise were victims of the storm. it is a strategy that will help address needs that were not immediately apparent. some experts say that is smart planning. some question if they should have acted with more urgency. they are viewing the recovery efforts. you can watch it or listen to it here on the radio. here are some of the latest headlines. be aere tends to
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denigration of the u.s. military by some historians that when lot and battalion , the germansian battalion tended to be superior. they were theno better material. it is ointments. -- pointless. it is which system can produce the wherewithal to project power in the atlantic, pacific, .ndian ocean, southeast asia which system can produce the civilian leadership to create the transportation systems that is able to produce 96,000 airplanes? will take yourn
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calls and tweeps. it is three hours live sunday at noon eastern on both tv -- booktv. with the senior ,hite house correspondent author of the new book open whe "prisoners of the white hou: the isolation of america's presidents and the crisis of leadership." white houseered the and its 86. it has alread always struck me w abnormal it is. it is completely alien to our everyday lives in the united states. it always struck me how does the president joe with this? president obama cause of the bubble. is soeryday life
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different. there are so many ways that the president is isolated, security, people not bringing him the bad news many times. trying to protect him in the sense that the idolize her's have felt. it is something they have had to deal with for many years. given the headlines that we have seen, is this a factor in all of this, the isolation of the president? guest: i have been thinking about exactly that since those stories broke. i think what happened in some ways is that the president misjudged the intensity of the reaction. i am sure he knew there would be an intense reaction when they came out. i think he was isolated in the sense of misjudging the intense reaction of conservative hawks on the because the issue -- on
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the benghazi issue. he misjudged the intention of the reaction of the media on the records issue and on the fox news monitoring of james rosen. issue in particular has resonated with people who are worried about the irs anyway and wondering whether --the president had to see there would be negative reaction but it was the intensity caller: of the reaction indicating the bubble. isolationdoes the factor play out in negotiations with congress? having members of -- dinner with members of congress, playing golf.
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president obama can be a little aloof and does not reach out naturally beyond his inner circle. he does not have relationships with a lot of the old he is now cultivating. we have had some very difficult times in recent weeks. i think the problem is the relationship side. he is not done this consistently. as a result, it almost looks like he is just doing it for show. i think he has 4.5 years now without the relationships and it will be difficult to build them in the last host: host: 3.5 years. we are talking to ken walsh. of what hasing happened with other presidents as well. how will this isolation play out? guest: every time we have some
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type of security problem, of course the assassination of president kennedy, the security got much more intense. the assassination attempt on resident reagan. the 9/11 attack. it never goes back again. it is very strict. even as someone might president obama who does try to break out of the bubble does that, how human of an interaction can you have when their are all these bodyguards everywhere. this is this atmosphere of person has to be protected at all times. it is very intimidated to people. one andt obama says the mistakes he made was that he was stuck on the white house too much. he is trying to get out more now. i think that is smart.
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theuns into the problem of security going around 10 and the sense of the all of the president. -- around him and the sense of the awe of the president. this is at feel historic figure it no matter who was president. you get that very year toward human interactions. has: you write that obama tried to avoid isolation. he's the first president to technology the new ies of social media -- guest: it is interesting.
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other presidents have tried to meet with his friends. residents clinton gave out a fax president clinton gave out a fax number, old technology. we like this speech, we think you should do that. he did collect them in a little anteroom and he did response. other presidents have tried to do this. president obama the new technology very valuable. it is important. host: if you are talking to your makingers, how is that you or giving you an idea of how to relate to other americans? very goodt is a point. often when they are under pressure they turned to their
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loyalists. that is a problem. then you do not get that wider view. sometimes they hope their friends will give them the , candid talk evaluations. a lot of people i talked to say before they go into the oval office to see the president they get very stern. and they say i'm going to tell him he is doing or that wrong and then they do not do that because they are intimidated by the president and the oval office itself. so many barriers to the president getting the basic information is a real problem. the: does the bubble make president seem out of touch or unable to govern? guest: in some ways it is owed. s are out the president of touch in several ways.
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they try to stay in touch. read 10 letters every evening, often allow. let's follow up on this and that. about not will write getting social security checks or something. the day after he will be flooded with calls from government officials. it can cause a remarkable response to read presidents have used letters for many years. theklin roosevelt pioneered fireside chats when you would talk to the country on the radio. he would get tens of thousands of letters and would respond to people. some of the letters you can find online. i have a number in the book about people who knew that he
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had polio and his legs were paralyzed and did not know the extent of the disability. they would write very poignant letters. mother saying my child has polio and i have to carry my child around. we were inspired by your efforts to struggle against polio. .hey were very poignant letters they get in that sense of people paying attention to the besident and that he may able to make a difference. host: anthony here in dc on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. i have always felt that president obama is relatively young in national politics, not like some of his congressional leaders who have been around for the last 25 or 35 years. i always thought he had a decent brian with people like
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williams and steve cross. what is your view on that? guest: that is an interesting point. you brought up brian williams and steve croft. they are not white house correspondents. he tends to be okasan on network anchors, commentators, the poker run the sunday shows but not the frontline white house reporters -- people who run the white house reporters. and giving interviews, he tends to be choosing the bigger name people particularly on television. i do not think he has given an interview to the "new york correspondent in years.
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is he communicating with the people who cover him and theoretically know him best? the answer is no. i do not think he has a lot of relationship with front line white house correspondents. that is a problem. it benefit in two ways. the president can put his message out day-to-day. i always say when you build people, yous for al know who to trust better and who not to trust. the media is not monolithic. this is important for a president to make the distinctions. the second thing, the president and staff can absorb in the
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relationships, what the media are up to. what is important to the media. an early warning system as to what stories are on the radar. the white house does not do as good a job as they might. host: you do not think it is effective? guest: i do not. problem of thehe president or his staff? guest: it filters down. beginning under president clinton, they want information to be german through their public relations staff whether then have the reporters talk to the principals who make the decisions. it used to be that you would sit down with the chief of staff or the national security adviser or others. that is much more difficult now. everything has driven through the communication staff, the press office staff.
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seven of the issues. some do not. have the issues. some do not. does this lead to isolation as well of the president? guest: it leads to a distance that is not helpful. that is part of the problem. it is multifaceted. there are many aspects to this. i think they are left in this quandary of how they break out of the bubble. some presidents have done it better than others. host: the bubble is the talk it -- topic here. joe you are next in reno, independent collar. is a lack ofhing managerial experience. president obama is probably the least experience president we have ever had.
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he does not understand management style. just like he was not informed about all this going on, i think if a manager or the lack of ,anagement will cause a bubble it will not do anything else. what is your opinion on that? host: that is a good point. presidents without a lot of management ability or can make up for that i surrounding haveelves with those that management experience. i think there is a question about how much president obama has done that. a lot of people would say the reason we turn to governors going back through jimmy carter is that they have management experience in government. senator forama was a relatively short amount of time. that is not an executive branch job.
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it is a legitimate criticism that he did not have experience. the country knew that and elected him. the president should make up with that by bringing those around him. a reporter and not a pond and so i do not take editions on policy. does have this and th type of management. the question that arises is whether they are well serving the president by affecting him too much. you saw that particularly in some of these investigations that are going on and the internal revenue service issue where he was kept in the dark. that is not a good inc.. should he be like reagan
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and admit his mistakes? guest: i think he should. i think the country respect that. they want that. people have an understanding that president to make mistakes. own up to that. president is reluctant to do that. i think the country does respect that. how did ronald reagan view the white house and isolation? did not need the kind going out to by dinner or social event. he was happy to be in the white ande with his wife nancy this love affair. they loved to be with each other. he was happy to be there.
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some very interesting stories about that. he did havedid is advisers around him who try to keep them informed about the country. that is very important. revived on residential pollsters who are very important in keeping a president and touch. he did not forget his roots. he got a lot of criticism for a guy that hung out with rich people and corporate leaders throughout his adult life. he used to be a hollywood are. ed that heremember came from a middle-class background. they need to always remember that and not feel that they have risen so far above that they're not connected to it anymore. host: queen still, new york.
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independent collar. how do you recommend in regard to piercing the white house bubble when there is such a transformation of realities for the president and the first doesn'tt the president go to the kitchen. he gets on the phone and says get me this now. when he goes to the american people he goes to the press corps. to better option is to talk the american people with town hall meetings directly as opposed going through the press. no offense. k to pierce the bubble? guest: you mention staying in
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touch with reality. a senior advisor to lyndon b. johnson many years ago wrote a twilight of"the tyler whit the presidency." he said one of the worst problems that presidents had was keeping up with reality, and that is worse now. to me, what presidents need to do and in my concluding chapter i have prescriptions for this, it has to be a sustained effort to keep in touch as a priority. it cannot be just occasionally. news conferences are one way a president can keep in touch by seeing what is on the minds of the media, interviews. but also you mentioned town meetings. that is very important. president obama has tried to go out and see people in their homes. he went to falls church,
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virginia not long ago and met with people. even that is a problem because of the notion of awe and how many people are candid with him. pollsters are important. presidents can get a decent sense of the country from polling. it can be overdone. i think president carter overdid did that with his pollster, which i talk about in the book. another thing is keeping in touch with popular culture. you mention the idea of president obama keeping in touch with sports. you see this again and again, the notion of presidents keeping in touch with sports. it is a way of doing what americans do to relax, and they get a sense of popular culture. so he watches sports center, watches games from the teams he used to pay attention to in chicago. he does pay attention to that,
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so that is another way. but what i am getting at is there are a lot of ways to do this it is a multifaceted approach. presidents need to really work at it. some do and some did not. president obama does try to work at it. in a recent case that we mentioned, these scandals, where perhaps he was not as intense as he should have been, but presidents have to really stay with it. that is one of the important things i hope people will draw from the book. host: everyone thought obama would be this consensus-builder. guest: i think that president obama came into washington not really realizing how intense the polarization was and would be. he has become a polarizing figure. i think he really was hoping not to be, but i think because of the policies he has adopted a because of the stubbornness of his opposition -- i am not saying that necessarily critically, people polling obama
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do believe in the opposition so i do think that is important, but i think that he has been unable to reduce much of the polarization. i think you are going to see a lot more of that after the initial phase of this charm offensive is over, which is not having much of an impact of moving his agenda through. he has to pay if it back -- he has to pivot back to a strongly partisan approach. a year from now how much it will look much different. he will be really hammering at the republicans to get them out of the control of the house, move that to the democrats. i think you will see a much more partisan approach as time goes on. host: this says maybe we should lock him in the white house, stop wasting money jetting around for these photo ops. guest: people are divided on the photo ops. some people feel that it is important to for instance,
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today president obama will be in new jersey at the jersey shore with governor christie, a republican governor who has been critical of president obama. now he is taking some criticism from conservatives for being too close to obama. but he is visiting people who have been victims of storms. he was visiting the tornado area in more, oklahoma, and i think people feel that is a good thing to do -- he was visiting the tornado area in moore, oklahoma. i think getting out of washington is important, and that is part of the insulation -- the president who stays in the white house too much becomes a prisoner of the white house. they have much more difficulty staying in touch than they should. host: we will be covering president obama on the jersey shore today at 1:30 p.m. eastern time with governor chris christie. live coverage here on c-span. we are talking to ken walsh about his new book "prisoners of ."e white house
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steve in oklahoma city, republican. [indiscernible] .exual assault in the military the commanders are setting the tone from on top. the men are taking the lead from their commander. why does the media not find that on the scandals that are underway? guest: i think you are starting to see that. i think perhaps there should have been more of that from the beginning. you are seeing sort of going back again and again to the idea of why was the president kept in the dark, which his aides say he was, on some of these scandals? shouldn't the president be taking more responsibility tom and shouldn't he be blamed for things on his watch? but i think that is happening. you may feel it should happen
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sooner, but i think, certainly if you look at how the briefings are going with what i said -- with white house press secretary jay carney, a tremendous amount of outrage on these, media particularly the ap and james rosen fox news sort of snooping and spying on the media and of the irs issue. so i think there is an accountability factor here that the are applying to the president. i think that is happening. on usahis headline today -- is obama at war with journalists? they have president george w. bush's spokesman that does not agree with the obama administration often, but when it comes on the leaks of classified ad -- information, he is on the same page. here is the quote --
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i covered eric fleisher and i'm not surprised he made those comments. he was very much in the line of message control and so on, which i'll press secretaries tend to do. he is sort of showing solidarity with jay carney, the current white house press secretary. this is tension between the media and the white house. in this case, we have not had this kind of aggressive, you know, militant going after leakers, in my experience, but it is also part of a wider picture of the white house perhaps not responding as quickly or as candidly to questions, driving the questions through the press operation rather than the policymakers, which we talked about earlier. any idea that if there is a bad ifry -- we do not expect
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the story does not make the white house happy, they will come back at you as a reporter and complain. but you solve this with bob aboutrd not long ago, him being bullied or an intent to intimidate them and backing them off of a story. it is a bigger picture than just the scandal coverage. there are a lot of tensions with the press corps that might not be apparent but really exist. host: the editorial page of the wall street journal -- the administration wants to decide when reporting is legal in national security cases. they go on to say that all this is also reason to be suspicious of mr. obama cost other new media culpa, his support for media shield law. it includes national security protections which reportedly would not have protected mr. .osen and fox news any such law that lets government define who is practicing this way thus
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deserving a shield. guest: these are good points. a lot of media folks like the idea of a shield law. as a reporter i think it is a good direction to go. legislationlar t has questions, not the least of which defining who is a journalist. does the government now define what a journalist is? that covers a lot of anxiety among folks in the media. the idea of how does the legislation come out and will it have much of an effect on protecting or shielding reporters? i am not confident that that would have been very effectively. but the white house is sort of using support for the shield law as the notion that we are really on your side in the media more than we might seem to be. but i think we have to the how this legislation goes and how much is watered down, how much they white house supports it being watered down.
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that remains to be seen. host: joe in the mask is, maryland, democratic caller. -- in damascus, maryland. caller: i read an article about the presidents that were intellectuals. madison, lincoln, wilson, carter. they added obama to the list. diverse question is, how do you think think that the fact that he is an intellectual plays into this perception of aloofness? the second question has to do with the expectations and biases that people had or have with the first african-american president, i think there is a tremendous amount of pressure on him because of that. i am wondering how that plays into perceptions also. guest: being an intellectual, i mean, i have interviewed president obama a number of times now.
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he is very smart and very cerebral. intellectual, i think it means two different people, he does respect the life of the mind and is interested in ideas. if you define that as being an intellectual, he certainly qualifies for that. he does like to dissect things. if you look at his policies or talk to him personally -- as a journalist, many times people are struck by the idea that there's not a lot of chit chat to begin with. he is very no-nonsense. other presidents i have talked to and people around washington, members of congress, legislators, businesspeople, lobbyists, whatever are struck by the idea that he is so no- nonsense. people might expect the president to say, well, how is your family? the peaceter in corps? that might be a natural sort of bonding moment or a moment to reach out. president obama does not do much of that. the last time i interviewed him,
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he said i have been thoroughly briefed, let's have your questions. there was nothing more personal than that. that is his prerogative. but when you interview him or people talk to him, he doesn't seriously tried to answer your question. he does listen. he tries to explain himself. you see this in press conferences. he comes back to a question often and says, well, let me be even more clear. you like that in some and are interviewing. people like that in a president. the question is, in situ cerebral? does he have enough of an of an emotional connection with people? it remains to be seen. i think president obama is qualified as an intellectual. some people do not think that is so good, by the way. they think a president should be closer to an everyday person in his outlook, but whatever. as far as being an african american, in talking to a number of president obama haas advises,
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they feel that being an african american sort of cuts both ways. some people will never get the past of the idea that there is an african-american president, they do not like this, a sort of racial part of that. other people will be drawn to president obama because he is an african-american, and of course he is a historic figure in that way. ways.k it does cut both i have seen presidents treated very harshly. every president i have dealt with. look at jimmy carter, how harshly he was treated. bill clinton was impeached. there is another side of this that is not racial at all. it is just the polarization we have is a country and some people, his opponents, will not give the president a break or a benefit of the doubt. that has existed for a long time. schedulet about the that presidents keep, and does that lead to isolation? as you said, president obama is
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all business. if they are just getting through the day and trying to do it as efficiently as possible -- guest: if you look at the president's schedule, it is backbreaking. we do not think presidents should get colds or get the flu or get a headache. it happens to everybody. or slow down, every president gets a cold, people think the president is showing some kind of weakness or his health is bad. if a president cancels an event for one reason or another, he is being lackadaisical or he is sick. it never ends. the president and his schedule is nonstop, back-to-back meetings and talks in public events and travel. really a backbreaking schedule. i think president obama has a very, very busy schedule. he is a relatively young man as president still. he seems to handle that very well. but this is part of the idea of idea of trying to break out of washington him of breaking out of that routine at the white house. every president i have covered, and this goes back even before
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reagan, who was the first president i covered, they just feel desperate to get out of the white house. they fight so hard to get to the white house, and once they are there, they're desperate to get away from the place. because they want some semblance of normality. that is part of why they go on vacations away from the white house, even camp david. presidents are just so eager to get out of washington and they are so happy when they do. you can just see it in their physical appearance. they just feel liberated. part of it is the routine you are talking about. a break from that backbreaking schedule. they feel a little bit more liberated than they would in the white house. host: you write president harry truman famously called the white house the great white jail, and bill clinton referred to it as the crown jewel of the federal penitentiary system. a rock obama says one of the biggest mistakes he made during his first term was confining himself in the white house too much which a limited his understanding the real america beyond official washington. guest: just a couple of quick
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points. president obama -- there is an instance where i describe that a friend of president obama came to the white house with a new hybrid car. presidents do not drive. the secret service do not like them to drive anywhere. this is one of the little things that presidents mess -- miss. so his friend said, would you like to get behind the wheel of a hybrid car? the president felt it was a great idea. so he did. he drove it up and down the highway. the secret service was up and down. he joked about it later saying that was my joy ride, up and down the driveway a couple of times. saying this is the extent to which i have some personal freedom in this job. the other thing i wanted to mention is the family. president obama tries to have dinner with his family, his wife and malia and sasha, his
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daughters, at six: 30, and other presidents have done this. they love to have family time a sort of a way to get out of the bubble and get another view of things. but his daughters are young girls and are not very impressed with what he has been doing that day, daddy has been on television. when they have dinner, it is like what every dad goes through many times. i have gone through this. somebody and classes being mean to me. my teacher gave me a b and i should have gotten an "a." i'm not sure the girls get very many b's, they are very good students. he feels this is very refreshing. also his wife is a strong person in her own way. i talk about first ladies in the important role they play in grounding presidents. they are one of the few people around them who will say that was not such a good speech today or, you know, you need to focus more on this issue or that issue.
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first ladies do that where staff members often do not. wet: of course, as you know are focusing on first ladies in a new series. here is the website for it on c- span.org. first ladies -- and flights and image. are interested in the role they have played over the years, go to our library if you have missed them so far. you can interactively play with this part of the website as well. guest: i am sure you are talking about this in the series, that eleanor roosevelt had a very important role she played for frequent roosevelt airing the depression and world war ii. franklin roosevelt had polio so he cannot travel as much as he wanted to. eleanor served as what he called his eyes and ears. she traveled around the country to see how people reacted to his policies and so on. she became very important to franklin in doing this.
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they would have long dinners. she took voluminous notes. she almost acted as a reporter or even a pollster. this was before the heyday as pollsters. it was helpful to roosevelt because they had strains in their marriage in this regularity at their discussion of issues in these dinners when she would report back on what she was observing around the country, it became very important in their relationship. it was even more important than fact-finding. she would go to call mine's, go down into the coal mines -- she would go to the coal mines. she would go to poor sections of the cities. this was unheard of at the time. she had an amazing reputation as somebody who was really trying to stay in touch with the country. in our first lady series, it is in two hearts. we will be focusing on eleanor roosevelt on monday, october 21. let's go to deborah, new york, independent. thank you for waiting.
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caller: good morning. congratulations on your publication. guest: thank you. 'sller: as far as obama management style and being in the so-called bubble, have you considered that for the first four years he was literally underwater, dealing with problems that were passed on from the previous administration? that would have a whole lot to do with the perception by other people. guest: i do talk about that in hadbook, that he has terrible collapses. the mortgage industry, the sense that we were headed for another depression, not just a recession. a terrible series of problems he inherited. and of course he inherited two wars. i am not minimizing bad at all, afghanistan and iraq. so he was faced with crises from the very beginning that he
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had to deal with. i do acknowledge that. but i think that any president in dealing with crises, it is important to keep a sense of the pulse of the country. i didn't want to give the impression that a do-nothing president obama tries to do that, because i i think he does. -- i do not want to give the impression that i think president obama does not try to do that, because i think he does. it is so difficult for a president to do that. one of the reason, like you mentioned the financial crisis in his first months and first couple of years as president, he is absorbed by trying to deal with that almost our hour. you can imagine how difficult it is to get a sense of what the everyday family in cleveland or out in some other spot is coping with these things when he is just trying to deal with the crisis of the moment. that is part of the point i am
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trying to make. it is very difficult to break out, especially when the president is facing these kind of crises. host: west virginia, republican caller. .aller: good morning i am interested in all three of the's scandals that are going on -- of these scandals that are going on. of the who was the head irs, he indicated that it takes so much investigation and such a one of thesen organizations applies for tax- free status. yet, the half-brother of obama .as okayed in about three weeks and that organization was a little iffy to start with. i have often heard that a fish rots from the head-down. i am inclined to believe that
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this administration is rotting from the head-down. host: ok. ken walsh? i think with the relative of the president, i think certainly on the notion of this irs issued that you mentioned, we have not gotten to the bottom of this by any means. .ongress has been on a break i think the houses investigating this thoroughly. there are media investigations going on. this is far from being settled settled. the point about tax exempt status questions the notion of targeting conservative groups, how expensively that was done. the guidelines that the irs has for tax exempt status are difficult. they are vague. it is not an easy thing to do, but we will see if there is a preponderance of evidence that conservative groups were targeted, that their applications were delayed, they
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were subject to the usual scrutiny and were asked wes chance that might not have been asked about where they got their money. apparently batteries of questions were asked that the tea party groups felt were out of line. this is being investigated now, so it is an ongoing process. it takes time for the irs to make conclusions about these tax exempt groups and their status, and it takes a long time to get to the bottom of how they do that and exactly what happened in this particular case of the irs. of the scandals that we are talking about, benghazi, the scrutiny, i media think the irs is the one that most people have more resonance with. everybody deals with the irs in some way, and a lot of people feel the iris is the leading edge of government abuse. so i think that that is an issue that people are really going to focus on, more than the other
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two. host: president obama said he did not find out about that until the rest of us, newspaper reports. you talk about access to information. you said roosevelt understood he could be isolated by his staff and took pains to avoid it. he understood thoroughly the weaknesses of the staff system in the white house, wrote the former white house adviser for lyndon johnson. he saw to it that under no circumstances could people in his immediate vicinity controlled his access to information. guest: right. this is many years ago, so you did not have the information running at the velocity and the volume that it does now. the president could control the information or share the information more easily within the government then than is possible now. but roosevelt was very keen on controlling insulation with his government. a lot of people during that time and other times with other presidents say if you do not give the president the full
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story, the president would get very upset and would expect staff to give them the full story. but presidents need to insist on that. keeping president obama in the dark, as the white house says he was in the's scandals that are going on now, at least in some cases, i think it takes a lot of people by surprise. i think if they are smart, they will try to correct that. it used to be, for instance, that the chief of staff knew about something, everybody would expect the president would know. chiefs of staff are not supposed be hiding things from the president, even to protect the president or lessen the pressure. we will have to see. we really do not know exactly what his reasoning is, why the president was kept in the dark. but we will see. host: new jersey, democratic caller. good morning, thank you for taking my call.
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mr. walsh, i have a question. regarding ronald reagan, you kind of skipped over iran contra. that was certainly a blip in his presidency, and he did not come clean on that. i second question is regarding the press in general. i recall during the bush administration, armstrong williams, judy miller, jeff gannon -- these were scandalous acts with the press. i do not see that in the obama administration. that is soss a storyed in getting on the president that they are just trying anything they can to make him look bad. i just think that the president is doing a pretty good job. no one is going to be happy
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with him. and i think that your presentation this morning has been a little bit to the right. host: ok. guest: as i said earlier, i am not trying to be partisan in any way. i am glad you brought up the iran contra issue. i was not intentionally glossing over that. of presidents in their second terms have what historians call the second term curse. this idea that second term presidents lose their way many times and they have these terrible problems either from overreaching or hubris or misjudgments. many times this happens -- the iran contra scandal, part of .his notion of being isolated reagan said that he did not know a lot about this stuff, he did not know about the
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fundamentals of the iran contra scandal. so the question during those days was, was he too disengaged? should he have known? a lot of people thought he should have known. he should have stopped this illegal conduct in some ways and overreaching in others. so the iran contra scandal was a very serious setback to president reagan. he did recover his credibility and the end. largely because the economy was getting better for a lot of people. but the second term problem, president clinton had the second term problem with the monica when ski scandal. -- with the monica lewinski scandal. then there was the social security issue. the iraq war. hurricane katrina for president bush. he was really out of touch on that. that is one thing that the staff says he never really recovered from and his credibility. but he was at his ranch in the
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state of texas during the terrible hurricane that hit the gulf coast and was out of touch as far as how serious it was. i think that is part of a pattern here. it is the big criticism has been the media were in president obama 's pockets. it is interesting you mentioned that. the president needs to get the coverage they deserve your it that is how i would put it. it is not fair in every case. whatis happening now is ever issues that president obama was benefiting from in his first term he is getting much more negative coverage now. it is not just because we are looking for things to embarrass him on.
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i think this whole notion of the media and the justice ing recordssubpoena mea ,nd looking through e-mails including e-mails from people at their homes and their private accounts, that does send a chill through the media. president obama has said he was going to look into the standards of the justice department uses. media coverage is always a controversial topic. i think resident obama is getting more negative coverage than he has before. i think that will continue. i think that will be a staple for the second term. quacks you said they do read the polls. because the economy appears to
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be brighter that these scandals thus far have not impacted his numbers. guest: i had a couple of logs on this. at about 50%.ned 50% of the country think he is doing a good job. that has been pretty steady despite the scandals. happen andals will it takes a wild for that to weigh down a president numbers. that may happen with president obama. the economy is getting better. this is an important thing to keep in mind. many will are still hurting in this economy. there has been wage stagnation. 7.5% unemployment rate nationally.
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i am cautious about how much the economy is helping obama. i think there are tremendous economic problems. i think that is part of why the job performance has not been better. people are still worried. our: you have keyed up next segment nicely. we asked our viewers what the economy is like in your city and where you are living. are they seeing economic signs of a brighter economic scene? we are going to return to that coming up. ken walsh, thank you very much. thanks for talking to us. that is the question we will be asking all of you coming up here after this short break newsbreak from c-span radio. quacks it is dying 30 3 a.m.
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eastern. we will update on the situation in syria. william head is saying the european union has decided to lift the arms embargo on the syrian opposition. the decision "sends a very strong message from europe to ."e asad regime peer quot they would not say whether russia has shipped any of the long-range defense missile systems. moscow is not going to abandon the deal despite israeli criticism. the defense weapons cannot be used in the civil war the opposition that does not have aircraft. the concerns and signal sent to us and realize that many of our partners are concerned about the issue.
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we believe that such a step help restrain some "hot head ."er quot quacks there tends to be a denigration of the military that foughter one battalion an american battalion or an american regiment that the term is tactically superior. that they were the better military. i think this is nonsense. clash ofr is a systems. it is which system can produce the wherewithal to project the atlantic, pacific, indian ocean. southeast asia. theh system can produce
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civilian leadership to create the transportation systems that is able to produce 96,000 airplanes? quacks to time pulled sir prize- rick atkinson will take your facebook comments and tweets. we are back for the last 30 minutes. i want to get your take on where the economy looks like where you live. the headlines we have been saying today save the economy is turning brighter. we want to hear from you what it is like outside of washington, dc. timing on taxes passed the deficit. washington did not take much time to celebrate the dramatic
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and little bit ago. case shiller says u.s. home prices rise again in march from twoar earlier according i standard importers. what is the housing market like in your area? what is the economy looking like? connie in maryland, democratic collar. the employment is pretty good. if you want a job you can find it. you can find a job. we are lucky. between a choice maryland, virginia and dc. and when thet
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last gentleman was talking about obama being aloof. found him very down to earth to talk to. host: how did that come about? guest: he had a town hall conference. somehow my name came up twice. i have been a supporter since the beginning. they perch rate him so badly it just angers me. -- they portrayed him so badly it just angers be. i have been around a long time. host: i have to jump in. i do not want to get too far down that road. on whether or not the economy is improving where you live. 1/3 of theshows public says economic conditions
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are good right now. this is down from 74% from the end of last your. margaret and kansas, democratic collar. caller: i am not sure. retirement slow. the economy is based on prisons and the base fort leavenworth. they just had a massive sequester layout that heard the civilians. that affects housing in the area. the governor here is very weak. he cut medicaid. he will not take medicaid funding.
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it is hard for people. people lost jobs. you can see this in restaurants. people are eating out. there are empty storefronts. the lack of any cognitive supports are so negative for positive growth. weirde storefront choices. do you attribute that to sequestration? caller: the fort leavenworth was just a lot of them were said he had to work four days instead of five. it is very bad when you do not have things inspected or governors that care about the food supply.
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the drought was bad here last year, very bad. it has not come out of that. you have to see the drought and water management. it will be very important for kansas. before sequestration did you see your area start to come back a little bit western mark -- a little bit? caller: people have been cut for two months. that affects the area that is dependent on the military. host: you are seeing small businesses going under and people are not eating. are you seeing more for-sale signs? caller: yes. there are houses. they are not building in the empty buildings. it stopped. restaurants are a little more empty. you know. it is also poor leadership in the state.
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the governor is more worried , it is just a terrible feeling. host: scott in new orleans, independent collaaller. aller: the governor did cut lot a medical schools, teachers, things that we really need in this country. none of the people really have an answer to the problem. a caller touched down about hemp fuel. it cost five dollars a gallon to produce. cousin to that would be marijuana. outcould produce more seed of marijuana. you could probably produce a two dollar a gallon of marijuana diesel. what that would do is we would have farms shipping it in
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trucks to refineries, shipping it to the gas stations which are going into our diesel motors. this fuel would run in a diesel motor. the very first diesel was made to run off of hemp fuel. as long as we have a bunch of people up top who only care about the money in their pocket, we are having problems. scott talking about the governor in louisiana and the cuts. the wall street journal has this headlines --
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once that is taken away, what do you think happens? caller: i think things will look toughtop ones that -- once that happens. there is no reform with it. over 2 billion dollars in taxation increases and no reform at all. host: what about gas prices up there? a lot of headlines about minnesota and gas prices. caller: that is another thing that i was a little perplexed about. it was attributed to some refineries in the chicago area. a lot of our petrol comes out of canadian refineries. that is a big jump up to over four dollars and $.20 a gallon. that is strange. caller: if you live in
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washington, dc that is a price you have seen a lot. what is it like for minnesotans to see that? money, how does that compare to past prices? caller: just about the highest we have seen. host: democratic collar, missouri. caller: good morning. host: go ahead with your comment. what is the economy like in st. louis? i agree withally, one. i believe it was a couple of callers ahead of me. she was speaking of a bunch of empty storefronts. that is our city. the areas are very prosperous.
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i believe i know why. it has always been that way in st. louis. host: what kind are in st. louis? caller: the same jobs that have always been available. a certain sector of st. louis that has been growing. of jobs forind those that are not familiar? they were city and county jobs. there is no real industry in st. louis. and: what about the arch beer companies, the tourist attractions? caller: the tourist attractions too well but they only do well for a certain sect are. as long as we have half of
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america affect did and out of wholei will take the industry. i hear about all these foreclosures that are being rectified. that is not the case. me and my wife are battling with ink of america right now. they have no intent to do the right thing. host: are you in foreclosure? caller: yes. we have been trying to reach out to the bank of america to get our mortgage straight. .e really had a predatory loan if we sat down and explained our loan there should be people in jail behind this stuff. i would go to jail if i did some of these things. host: have you dealt with some of the government programs? caller: yes. me and my wife qualify for the home that we got. some people say they did not
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rejigged -- they bought homes they cannot afford to. they do want to do these loans. we keep getting paperwork. host: georgia, republican. caller: hello. host: you are on the air. caller: it is like a ghost town. they have whole factories. it just looks abandoned. they do not fix the roads. the children do not have books for school. i do not know if that is due to the c kuester. this has been going on well before then. -- the c kuester. this has been going on well before then. host: go ahead. caller: i would like to speak on the personal economy specifically.
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this has been the greatest personal economy and grea in hir high earners. i will give you examples of what i am talking about. president obama allowed a special exemption. and person had $2 million converted it, that money is now worth about $5 million or $6 million. i will never have to pay tax again. nor will any of my children ever have to pay tax again on that money because of the special exemption. the government provides my personalr residence. as an owner i can deduct warty or $50,000 off of professional the wall person is
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paying for my house because i'm getting another 12,000 or $15,000 a year the blue because i can afford it. -- simply because i can afford it. i would assume president obama is responsible. increase ineen the high earners and history. will beesident obama traveling to the new jersey shore to tour the rebuilding efforts there after hurricane sandy. here is the story this morning - will- we will be covering this.
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it will be on www.c-span.org and then go to the website to find out when that will be airing here on c-span. we will be covering the tour of the coastline and the president 's remarks there in new jersey. larry, new jersey, independent caller. i am in the southeast part of virginia. it is the largest naval base in the country. we have all services here. there are going to be some civilian layoffs with the government. through thishere whole turn down has been below the national average. it is between five and six. it has been good. host: why is that? -- we had had a dig
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a democratic governor before this and now we have a republican. they both have been good. host: what about the military impact? caller: it is heavy here. on the you do not work civilian floor it still affects everything else. host: in a positive way? caller: there are a lot of storefronts closed. i think they will eventually come back. and people are buying. let me tell you. if you look at the stores, people must have money in their pockets. 's economy isnia poss good to the rest of the country. .ost: republican collar
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hello. how is it in vermont? caller: the economy is bad. there are only a couple places he can make any decent money unless you are a lawyer or judge. they are going to be moving. pays good.er the rest is all fast food or grocery stores. they do not pay nothing unless you are a manager or something. host: we say the other jobs pay well well, how much an hour? hour.: $12 an to start. host: the cost of living in vermont? up $.12the gas has gone because the governor put a $.12 gas tax. they are giving sex offenders
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disability checks. ,ost: columbia tennessee democratic caller. caller: we are starting to pick up. are about 40 miles south of nashville. the housing market is really picking up. notle talk about people having any money. you go to walmart and target every day they are packed. every to the restaurant friday and saturday, they are packed. the economy here is good and the cost of living is low. host: what kind of jobs? service.hey are mostly we have a gm plant 10 miles north. host: why mostly service jobs? 50s, wein the 60s and were a chemical base.
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you can go to www.c-span.org and our video library if you're interested in the topic. over the weekend we talked to the petroleum institute as well. wilmington, delaware, independent caller. things are ok here in delaware. i do not have the expertise to adequately judge the economy. i have an example. a gentleman who talks about learners stole my thunder. i have a sister-in-law that works at nordstrom. she is young. that costsunglasses $450 and she has
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a quota of $1200 a day. they do not give a salary at nordstrom. here's how she makes her living. where is this money coming from? in the gene's apartment she sold jeans that cost hundred $50. jeans department she sold jeans that cost $250. maybe it is a situation of the rich getting richer and the middle-class suffering a little bit. my husband and i do not have children. we entertain ourselves by going to fairly inexpensive restaurants and we cannot get reservations. i do not quite understand it. i think the only explanation as they ares that perhaps
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doing ok. they arelike benefiting from regulations. host: we will leave it there. " will beon journal back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. enjoy your week and the rest of your tuesday. they queue for watching. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> here is a look at what is coming up today.
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