, the president of the 23rd president as we continue our series on the first lady's. at 9:00 p.m.live eastern on >> the british house of commons was in recess last week. prime minister's question time returns wednesday, june 5. you can watch it live on c-span 27 :00 a.m. eastern and sunday night at 9:00 eastern and pacific here on c-span. you can watch previous sessions anytime at c-span.org or you will find video of past prime minister's questions and other british public affairs programming. now a discussion about president obama's commencement speech at morehouse college in atlanta and its impact on young african-american men. this is 90 minutes.

>> for the next hour and a half, we want to focus on a speech the president gave last month.> one of his four commencement addresses. this one focused on african- american men and their own responsibility. first, take a look at one statistic when it comes to the employment rate cording to the latest from the department of labor. young african-american men between ages 2724 have among the highest unemployment rate. you can see among white men there. he says it is time for african- american men to take the responsibility -- here's part of what he had to say. [video clip] >> just as morehouse taught you to spend more of yourself, inspire those who look up to you to expect more of themselves. too many young men in our community continue to make bad choices. i have to say, growing up, i made quite a few myself. sometimes i broke off my own feelings as just another example

of the world trying to keep a black man down. i had a tendency to make excuses for me not to the right thing -- and doing the right thing. one of the things you have learned of the last four years, there is no longer any room for excuses. host: the president at morehouse college. we want to welcome crystal wright, the editor and publisher of conservativeblackchick.com. and joe madison. thank you for being with us. this was a speech that resonated in the african american community. why? guest: i think because for so long, the president has avoided talking to all black audiences. particularly, black individuals.

when i look at that we are in year five of his presidency, the second term, he only seems compelled to talk to all-black audiences when he is behind in the polls, as we saw in 2007 when he was running for his first term. to me, he is loath to even refer to himself as a black man. i was heartened to see him show up at morehouse college. i thought it was great for a historically black university to have our first black president of the united did speak. i had some issues with his speech. but i am glad he showed up for a change. host: we'll come to some of the specifics. joe madison, why did he give this speech and by now? guest: i would start off with a couple of exceptions to what crystal said. first of all, i have been to at least two congressional black caucus dinners at which he has spoken. interestingly enough, you had members of the congressional black caucus like maxine waters and others that have been critical because he appears to somehow chastise the black community for not doing this or that. he has spoken at howard. he has spoken to african youth leaders.

i know they had a conference at the white house where they brought together young african business leaders, future leaders of the continent, along with african-american leaders in this country. can we not forget his comments about trayvon martin, when he clearly said if trayvon martin was his son, he would look like trayvon martin. this is not a president who has not identified himself with the black community. when we are asked the question, why this speech and why now, i would also take exception to the fact that it is because he is

behind on his polls. he is not. as a matter of fact, we have the highest approval rating he has had in quite some time. in the african-american community, it is still in the high 80's-90's. i think it is an opportunity, if anything, possibly to because you have midterm elections coming up. the african-american community is critical in these congressional races and many of the senate races. host: something very personal, more excerpts from the speech of the president at morehouse college delivered two weeks ago. joining us at the table, joe madison and crystal right -- wright. we will go for an hour and a half, plenty of time for you to weigh in on this topic. we will have your calls, e- mails, and tweaked -- tweets. putting up the unemployment rate of african-american men, especially among the ages of 20 have and 24, you can see the statistics. 24.1%. it goes down

substantially at the age of 25. that leads to a series of other issues. crime in the inner-city. guest: you hit the nail on the head. the problem with presiden barack obama is he has no black agenda. no policies, no solutions to attack the dire unemployment facing back americans. we know the unemployment have been disproportionately affecting blacks. black unemployment is almost 13%-14%, twice the national average. in urban cities like washington d.c., we have certain neighborhoods where black men unemployment is between 30%-50%. in brooklyn, i think it was 50% at one time. in detroit, in milwaukee, and the president when he goes to morehouse, he does not talk about these things. it puts the responsibility on those young men graduating from morehouse worked for four years, many of them the first in a family to finish college.

his message to them is, you need to take responsibility for the feelings of the economic policies that democrats have pushed for the last 40 years. you guys need to take responsibility. i would argue that the speech should have been -- he told those kids, do not go after the dream of being successful. and making something of yourself and taking the responsibility to make yourself successful. he said, go to the barbershops, go to the churches. the problem i have that message, young black men need to be taught to take responsibility for themselves. he also should've told them, marriage, the lack of marriage is killing our communities. 73% of lack babies are born to unwed mothers, compared to 30% of white americans. we all know, and he spoke about this, but did not go into the details of it, because he does not have solutions.

what bothers me when he talks to black americans who overwhelmingly supported him in the first and second term, we know without the minority vote, he would not have one either election, really. she has a different message for black americans and has not faced the real problems affecting our community. when he talks to an all-white college like notre dame, it is a different message. if you want to be the president for all, he has to stick with that message. either you or the president for all, or you will not do identity politics. his constituents -- i don't think he is addressing the problems facing black america. host: i'll get your response, but when you look at education in comparison between black americans versus white americans, you can see among black males, 25 and older, 19% hold a bachelors degree or higher. 84% have a highest local -- high school diploma or higher. white males, about 32% have a bachelors greater more. your point about responsible to,

he did talk about not making excuses and flooding that stand in the way of your achievement. here is more of the president in atlanta, georgia at morehouse college. [video clip] >> every one of you have a grandma or an uncle or a parent who has told you that at some point in life, as an african american, you have to work twice as hard as else if you want to get by. i think president may put it even better, he said whatever you do, strive to do it so well that no man living and no man dead and no man yet to be born can do it any better. [applause] i promise you, what was needed in his time, that spirit of excellence and hard work and dedication and that is needed now more than ever. if you think you can get over in this economy just because you have a morehouse tigre, you are in for a rude awakening. if you stay hungry, if you keep hustling, if you keep on your grinding get other folks to do the same, nobody can stop you.

host: joe madison, is that a public policy agenda or something that should be part of the personal dna that he was talking about? guest: the same speech that i would give it any commencement, high school or college. let me say this. i think the mistake we often make in this town, and for those of us who may have different ideological bents, is that progressives, i will be critical of them first. many progressives are quite critical of the speech. i find that really interesting. i had a conversation with my good friend robert woodson who is a conservative african- american. just the other day, at an event, he said that it was the best speech he ever heard the

president gave. i find it fascinating. i hear it is too hard, too much yelling. and then conservatives saying, i love this personal responsibility. here's the point i like to make. i often do this. both sides are wrong. it is not all personal responsibility and it is not all public policy, and i think what you heard in the president's address at morehouse, his commencement speech, is a combination of both. it is both public policy and personal responsibility, so what he said was, look, we have high expectations of you young men. remember, this is the best and brightest of the morehouse colleges, just as spillman across the road is the best of women. this question of bringing it to the barber shops.

this is what he did. he took public policy issue to the barber shops, the beauty shops, because this is where the discussion has to take place. we have to talk about more than reality television and the divas of atlanta, or wherever those shows are. the other thing i heard him say was that you have a responsibility to take that degree, take that experience, and left others up, impact public policy, as well as help others who have been left behind. host: ron says, what were the issues that you did not like about the speech? guest: the first thing is that the president goes into a black vernacular when he talks to black audiences. we saw it in their congressional black caucus. we saw it with morehouse, and

with the first lady when she spoke to bowie college university, in maryland. why would you go to morehouse and talk about hustling? i have a problem with that. he opened the speech by saying, i know some of you are graduating summa cum laude, and then he says, thank you lord, and then brothers and sisters, and the barber shop comment, i mean, he looked at them after they earned a college degree, which is a phenomenal feat, considering so many are not earning college degrees, and he said you need to go to the barber shops and churches and help those along. my biggest problem with the

speech is -- democrats continually -- and it should be about personal responsibility. first, i think it is personal responsibility. for too long, black americans, as a race, have been failing because of economic policies, and it is a patchwork and substitute for personal responsibility. i have a problem with him telling young black men that they are obligated to help anybody. if you are selfish and make something of yourself, went to become successful, you can decide how to put your money. i other problem is, when he talks to kids at notre dame and other white audiences, he talks about person responsibility. he has become a millionaire by

writing books. my second problem with the speech is a lack of probing the issues that have been plaguing black americans for the last 40 years. the out of wedlock birth rate, education, and the fact that social welfare policies are keeping us down, not lifting us up the economic ladder. he said in a speech, and he has used it before when he spoke to the kids at notre dame. he said if you are a lawyer, do not go after protecting the rich and powerful, go after helping the little guy. i am sorry. for a young man he talks about that came from foster parents who got accepted to law school-- and let us not even talk about the trillions in student loan debt out there -- there is nothing wrong with success. also, when he spoke to those notre dame students in 2009, bashed success. we have the ability to get back to our churches and

organizations. we choose to be mentors when we are successful. i am not saying, as a young person, people cannot volunteer, but that is not the message to leave to graduates. i know you have a lot of debt, but do not worry about making money. host: crystal wright is the editor of conservativeblackchick.com, also the owner of baker wright group, a graduate of georgetown diversity, earned a master's from vcu. joe madison is the former executive director of the naacp, radio talk show host of wxyz. he is a graduate of washington university in st. louis. we will talk about detroit in a moment. guest: we are strictly on sirius now.

host: to another portion of the president's speech at morehouse college in atlanta. [video clip] >> be the best father you can be to your children because nothing is more important. i was raised by a heroic single mom, wonderful grandparents, made incredible sacrifices for me, and i know there are moms and grandparents here who did the same for all of you, but i wish i had a father who was not only president, but involved. i did not know my dad. so my whole life i've tried to be for my girls and michelle what my father was not for my mother and me. i want to break that cycle where a father is not at home. where a father is not helping to raise their son or daughter.

i want to be a better father, a better husband, a better man. it is hard work. it demands your constant attention and frequent sacrifice. and i promise you, michelle will tell you i am not perfect. she has a long list of my imperfections. even now, i'm still learning, still getting corrected, learning how to behave and be a good husband and father. but i tell you this, everything else is unfulfilled if we fail at family, if we fail at that responsibility. guest: my goodness, everything i heard in the speech contradicted what crystal said. he did not mention the 70%, and everything crystal points out in terms of the problems. no one disagrees with that. the unemployment rate, absolutely. let me go over couple of notes i

made. publication. -- obligation. i do not know about most people, but when i was growing up, my high school teachers, my minister, the people in my community said, look, joe, you have to do your best. we have high expectations of you. and we hope you will come back to the community and lift people up, lift people up that you left behind. just do not take that degree and run off. the president of the united states is not against success. there was nothing in those remarks that suggested he was against success. as a matter of fact, he kept repeating a theme, you have got to be all that you can be. let's talk about when you speak at notre dame as opposed to morehouse college. the first i ever learned in rhetorical classes is that you have to know your audience.

i would say to those future wall street executives, yes, you should go to wall street and help the little guy because it is the little guy that is investing in pension funds, investing in 401k's, and it is the little guy that were hurt most when wall street went broke. when it comes to student loans, we are talking about a president who just held a news conference where he wants congress to vote to prevent the student loans from doubling, from going from 3% to 6%, which could mean $2,000 to $4,000 to the student out here, and has asked those in college, folks with degrees, without degrees, to please do what?

get involved in public policy and get this do-nothing congress to come back and prevent those student loans from a doubling. this is not the time to double student loans in the united states of america for students. host: let's get to our calls. steve is with us from tempe, arizona. good morning. republican line. we will try one more time. good morning to you. caller: good morning. i am steve from tempe, ariz.. i am calling from tempe but i used to live in manhattan, i attended schools throughout the city, so i know what the black community needs, from seeing it

in aa meetings. ms. wright said that he had no solutions, but i wonder if a more appropriate question would be if the liberals have no solutions. host: turn the volume down on your set and it will come through better. guest: i agree that liberals to not have solutions because if the president talked about his solutions, as joe pointed out, he feels there is a combination of personal responsibility and solutions. we know that liberal solutions have not helped black americans with respect to affirmative action programs, with respect to crime. it is funny because the president, when an all-white student -- when mostly white

students were killed tragically in newtown, and then the shooting in aurora, and then again, gabby giffords, we saw him at act very angrily. meanwhile, in his hometown of chicago, 5000 murders. this year we are up to 100, mostly blacks killing blacks. we know of one woman who performed at the president's inaugural, one week later was tragically slain as she stood talking to friends, by young thugs. so we do not see the president talking about -- and this is really black genocide. you have had over 44,000 black children killed at the hands of gun violence. that is more than all of the blacks who were lynched before

the civil war ended through 1964. this is according to the children's defense fund data. no solutions being offered, and yet, joe talked about student loans. i would argue personal responsibility means the presidential telling students not to take on more debt than they can afford. go to community college, go to state colleges. it is not about the interest- rate doubling. the president expects black americans like you and me and the other young people paying back their debts to pay back the debt of those that take on too much student loan debt. the president also last year keeps on pulling the student loan forgiveness. if we are going to walk the walk i feel the president talking the

talk. i do not feel him walking the walk with policies. what is he proposing? i am not talking about gun control. that will do nothing to stop the genocide in our cities that is proportionately affecting black americans. host: we are on xm channel 119. we are talking about the president's address at morehouse college. joe madison, i want your response to that, but also this from stephen. he is a phd. he describes morehouse college as an elite institution. its graduates do not need a peptalk on their obligations. guest: you need both. you really do. it is an elite organization. that is interesting.

on the other hand, notre dame is also an elite organization. he gets criticized because he did not do this or say that. excuse me, the naval academy is an elite organization. he gives a peptalk at all the military academies with responsibilities for the people. the purpose of a commencement speech is to give them a pep talk. it is to tell them, you have got to get out here and help the society. let me go back to a couple of points. one, on affirmative-action. i hear this argument all the time. it is interesting, particularly coming from conservatives. we forget, you may get into an institution because of affirmative action programs, but i guarantee you when you take an exam or take a lecture, you have to take the same thing everyone takes. no one hands you an affirmative- action exam. you have to graduate with the

same requirements as anyone that gets in there. as a matter of fact, some people get in on legacy who are not as qualified as those who get in on high sat's. two of the most accomplished african-americans got in school on affirmative-action. look at what those programs gave them an opportunity to do. i will give you another example. professor gates at harvard university. he was also in that same class of graduates that came out of yale. so once again, we have people back into school because their parents are big donors, legacy, that type of thing. the other thing about blacks, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. this is where personal

responsibility comes in. this meaning of our community is something that is constantly talked about. this is not something that is silent in the african-american community. in my show, we discuss it almost every day. what are we going to do about it, how will we stop it? here is what bothers me when you mention aurora, newtown, those were white people killing mostly white people. but you never hear people say white on white crime, white on white murder. i would venture to say that more white people than black people have been shot and killed by handguns in this country, and this is not something that we should divide on racial lines, but something where we should all come together. one proposal was background checks. no one is suggesting that guns ought to be bit taken out of

people's homes, no one suggesting getting rid of the second amendment. as a matter of fact, in his state of the union, he said i am not trying to get rid of them, but we need background checks. what do we find? 90% of the american people accept background checks. that is just a few of the issues. we do not have time -- host: we do have another hour with joe madison and crystal wright. let me bring tim into the conversation. he has been patient from gainesville, florida. caller: good morning. good talking to you again. miss wright, may i call you miss wright? i wanted to talk to you about some of ben carson's book. i think you are taking your cues from a republican party that has

the parted the ways of reagen and bob dole. they have moved far to the right and i wish you could be brought back to true conservatism. the president did have a job, he was a college professor. as a poor, black dishwasher at a university, i would not have my job if it were not for affirmative action. i want to talk about reparations, and i am taking my cue from a book that was on c- span called "spies of mississippi." we know who made the money, who benefited, and we brought out the fact that these people were taking this money from people who pay taxes, while at the same time, denying them their voting rights.

to me, a principled position would be that the state of mississippi, at least, should be a model for, if it could be proven by a party that believes in states' rights, at that states should have to pay reparations. host: we are going to get a response. guest: first of all, you should not be labeling or categorizing me. i reject that. i am here as an independent thinker. i have formulated my thoughts the way i was raised and my parents as an example. as far as operations go, people forget that black americans, as slaves, were free labor. i reject comparisons to illegal

immigrants and the debate going on, illegal immigrants who broke the law to come to america are somehow like black american slaves. my ancestors, who you mention were free labor in mississippi, and built the nation's capital, from where we can see today, built monticello, where thomas jefferson was, and it would be nice to say that we can get reparations, but that is not going to happen. as my mother and father and everyone in my family were taught, we move forward in life, we take personal responsibility. i think that was the crux of your question, the main question that tim had. you were talking about affirmative action. you and joe mentioned it. my parents both went to historically black colleges and universities.

they had great educations. my father went on to go to the medical college of virginia for dental school, one of the first blacks to attend. i am not saying affirmative action programs are bad. if we are good to take a look at affirmative action, we need to realize rich, white families get in because of legacy. when i went to georgetown i saw that. but i had an interesting conversation with my mother, who is an independent, who experienced racism as a little girl, 13 years old coming home from ballet school. in the back of a bus in richmond, va., and a old man said, girl, you need to move. she said, i'm already in the back of the bus. she refused to move.

the bus driver didn't say anything. the bus went on its way. but you know what my mother said about affirmative-action? she said, crystal, i feel like it needs to be changed and revisited because i feel like it sends a message, not just to blacks, but minorities, that they do not need to work as hard. isn't that what the president was saying? blacks have to work just as hard as anyone else, but then again he said racism is not over. i would not say it is over. i do not like when the president is called awful names, he and the first lady compared to monkeys and chimps. i denounce that. we know racism is not dead. but let's not talk about -- from both sides of our mouth. i want to go to a point that joe mentioned. joe said the speech that the president gave at morehouse college, he would give the same speech at another college. he said you have to know your audience and would not expect the president to give the same

speech to notre dame. so which is it? guest: if i said i would give it to any college, i may have misspoke. i was not saying that i would give it to notre dame. i have spoken at white colleges, black colleges, white high schools, black high schools. know your audience. if i said any college, i stand corrected. i want to make another point. i find it interesting, crystal, the background of her parents. we seem to be more in agreement here than disagreement, and i'm glad to hear it. you pointed out the fact that your parents took personal responsibility when they were involved in the sit-ins, and that is exactly what the president was trying to say at morehouse, but what were they doing?

they were trying to impact public policy. they were not sitting in at restaurants or the woolworth's lunch counter. in jackson, mississippi they are commemorating the 50th anniversary of that. what they were impacting was public policy, and that is this what it is all about. secondly, i would agree with crystal. if any african-american or woman, or any minority, thinks they are going to get into a university or job through affirmative action and they do not need to work as hard, then they should have gone to my university, washington university in st. louis. you better pass the same exam, you better work as hard. affirmative-action does not say you are lazy. it simply says we are going to give you an opportunity to prove you can compete with the best. host: i want to share another excerpt from the president's speech. joe madison is heard nationwide on sirius xm. crystal wright is the editor and

publisher of conservativeblackchick.com. the president talks about responsibilities and opportunities for young black men. >> that does not mean that we do not have to work. if we are honest with ourselves, we know that too few of our brothers have the opportunity that you have here at morehouse. in troubled neighborhoods across the country, many of them heavily african-american, too few of our citizens have role models to guide them. communities just a couple miles from my house in chicago, in communities just a couple of miles from here, there are

places where jobs are still too scarce and which is too low, schools are underfunded and violence is pervasive. where too many of our young men spend their life not behind a desk or the classroom, but hanging out on the streets, or brooding behind a jail cell. host: the president at morehouse college, one of four speeches given at colleges this year by the president. staten island, new york. our line for independents. caller: good morning, steve, and to all the people behind him that get you on the air. thank you. host: we appreciate that. go ahead with your comment. caller: ms right, mr. madison, very glad to hear you speak. mr. madison, i think we were together when the freedom walk occurred with the united nations. you look great, happy to hear from both of you.

i am irish. my mother was born 25 miles south of belfast. i think blacks, in my experience, both being a pastor in anacostia, right near where you are, and then living in harlem, get short-shifted. president obama gave us who he really is. he is not henry belafonte, and he is not danny glover, but he is also not dr. carson. the trouble in america is the media, especially a mainstream that is polluted, which is why people are buying bottled water on the internet so to speak,

will not allow true blacks like yourself, miss wright and mr. madison -- whenever there are two together, it is a conspiracy. if you take the statistics that steve has shown us, they will parallel catholics and protestants in occupied ireland. my first stop and search was from a british soldier. i had a gun put to my head doing a pastoral visit to two people. i stopped somewhere over on new york avenue in washington, d.c. two white guys were smashing a guy with a baseball bat. after i called the cops, they threw me against the car and said, what are you doing in this neighborhood?

what you have to understand, non-blacks, speaking to all nations, white is a mental illness. host: we appreciate your response. guest: i think joe and i are smiling in agreement. what was his name again? michael, thank you for calling. host: one of our viewers and callers. every 30 days. guest: it is very telling that joe and i smiled and chuckled when he said, how rare is it to have two black political commentators on different sides of the table having a discourse, i would say, a civil discourse, because we are really busting up stereotypes in many ways. i have this debate many times. and thank you, steve, for having this discussion and allowing us to show that the black community is not a monolithic group, just like latinos, hispanics, catholics, feminists, or

italians. we are different, and that should be celebrated. i agree with michael in that so often when we see news programs, we see stereotyping of people. i can tell you guys, it is rare that i am ever on a mainstream radio program or tv with another black conservative, and we do exist. i know people try to pretend that after reconstruction in the 1960's, that you have a resurgence of black republicans but there is a long history of that that i will not get into. two things that he said which were important about the civil rights. yes, my parents took personal responsibility in a lot of ways that i could not even get into. my grandfather operated a dry cleaner in richmond and was gunned down in 1970 in his place

of business by young black men when the business was just taking root, the neighborhood was changing. my grandfather was armed with a gun at the time. and he was gunned down by young black men at the time. my little brother was not even born. i was four. my other brother trey had just been born. it goes to the point of -- there are some statistics we need to clear up. according to the justice department, black men are six times more likely than whites to be killed by guns, and black men are seven times more likely to kill with a gun. juan williams has done a lot of reporting on this. really, the missing link to the president's gun debate is race. not talking about -- shelby steele has also done some good reporting on this. black men are not only being scared by white americans and

everyone else, but black men are being feared by black americans from violence. when my parents fought in the civil-rights movement, brown versus the board of education, laws that come into play, barbara marshall working on behalf of the naacp. it was not like black americans were doing the government's work. the problem i have with the president's morehouse speech, in my opinion, what was missing from the speech, was solutions. he wants them to take personal responsibility, and that begins at home first. a lot of problems ailing black americans could be mitigated if policies were in place to support them. where you have an umbrella against his personal action, and reforming welfare, again.

host: arnold says the jobs are scarce because of the president's policy. you can join our conversation on our twitter page. the unemployment rate among african-american men in the key group of ages 20 to 24. african-american women in the same age group. let's get to walt in georgia. caller: joe, glad to hear you, i love listening to you. crystal, i have to be honest, i am 60 years old -- i am going to be nice. the best thing i can say to you is, you aret just using regurgitated talking points. let me give you an example, steve. let me give you a minute. in 2006, i spoke to a personnel manager. we hired 22 people, and they had

256 people taking the test. 13 people passed out of 256. out of those, seven were black, and they hired 22. out of those 22 that they hired, not one was black. me and two more guys went and filed some charges with the eeoc. nothing was done, and nothing will be done. but this did not just happen under the manager then. this happened under another man who was manager. this is the kind of situation you get into.

and then you try to figure out what is wrong with the black community. that is part of the problem, the jobs. guest: let me go back to one point, and that is, it was fascinating to hear him talk about stereotyping and then say the problem is that black people fear black people, not just white people. is that not stereotyping? should any of those young men he spoke to at morehouse be feared? of course not. it this is the case, i should fear every white man i see. after newtown, aurora, all of these incidents is that we hear about, why is it that we stereotype the fear of black men, but not the fear of men who look like you who commit horrendous crimes?

host: the president talked about that at morehouse. let me share what he had to say. [video clip] >> to be a good role model, set a good example for the young brother coming up. if you know someone not on point, go back and bring that brother along. those who have been left behind, that did not have the same opportunities we have. they need to hear from you. you have to be engaged in the barber shop, on the basketball court, at church. spend time and energy to give people opportunities and a chance. pull them up, expose them, support their dreams. do not put them down. guest: that is what, in part, what i'm saying.

i will rush quickly to this thing. i heard part of the program before we came on, a caller was very upset with the fact that china has their hands in our pocket, we owe them tremendous amounts of money, we are in debt to them. she mentioned the fact that a cadillac plan is being built in china. i think we could both agree, that plant ought to be built in the united states of america. i just recently came from flint, mich., where i buried a 102- year-old aunt. i went to the neighborhood where that buick plant existed where my father worked. they have torn down that plant. you could land a small airplane on the concrete that is left. it has devastated that community. and where is that plant? the chinese did not come in and

take that plant. hispanics did not come in and take our jobs. if we are honest about this immigration policy issue, what is really pushing it? quite honestly, cheap labor. what the president has said, and what i have said in my speeches and on my show is that education is the new currency of the 21st century. it is not gold, it is not marks, not dollars. education. that is what he means by you have got to take it to the barber shops, you have got to take it to the streets. we have an obligation not just to have an educated child, we have to have an educated community. host: there is the story that i want you to respond to. do you understand the single mom syndrome for 15 year old black girls? guest: i have a two-part answer

to that. no, because i have never been a 15-year-old single mother because i have parents, teachers, and mentors to tell me to have more respect for myself, delay sexual activity, and value relationships and marriage and serious commitment. i understand it from the perspective that girls having babies, kids having babies, is probably the most destructive thing happening in the black community today. when i talk about statistics, i am not pulling rabbits out of my hat. in 1964, daniel patrick moynihan wrote a report for president johnson. we all know senator moynihan, a great democrat senator. at the time he was assistant secretary at the labor department. he wrote a report that said, wake up, america, president

johnson, i see a crisis in the negro community. two things going on. a parallel track of single- parent households and more black males going to prison. at that time, the out-of-wedlock birthrate was 20%. today is an astonishing 73%. a young woman that is 15 years old has very little prospect of finishing high school, having a baby, go to college, and getting a good job. we need to focus on two things for young girls, regardless of race, but particularly for young black girls. there is nothing wrong with abstinence, and people can laugh at it, but it works. we need character-building programs in public schools across the country. there is the best friends foundation. in the district of columbia and 14 states, fourth or fifth grade, educating through high- school graduation, and teaches

young girls to delay sexual activity, drug use, and any of those risky behaviors, so they can graduate from high school and go on to college. i want to address two things that joe said, and the caller, we need tax reform. we certainly need corporate tax reform. we saw that apple, through legal maneuvering, did not pay a lot of taxes on a billion dollars of income? we need tax reform. ronald reagan tried to close loopholes when he was president, and then they expanded again. joe is right, it is general motors. you know better being from detroit. they are building a plant in china, providing jobs to the chinese.

we are going into the fifth year of unemployment being above 7%. instead of bringing 11 million illegal immigrants here who will work for pennies on the dollar because we do not have e-verify, we are not enforcing legal immigration laws, we need to take a hard but our tax policy and giving incentives for businesses not only to bring jobs here, but tax incentives. right now, in the district of columbia, we have a walmart being built on georgia avenue. what has the district council done to make sure that people who are getting jobs live in the neighborhood where they work? the caller, i do not know if you have read my blog, but i did not support racism. i do not know where you worked, but you should file a lawsuit. discrimination is wrong. let's not confuse that with hiring practices and affirmative-action.

if seven blacks passed the test where you work, his place of employment, and that none were hired, that is a problem. racism is alive and well, as i said. there was a study that shelby steele referred to, where blacks actually said, they feared being killed by other blacks. i do not stereotype. guest: but we all said -- excuse me. her comment was that white people fear black people. white people have always feared black people. it is built into the fabric of america, and yes, white people also fear other white people because most killings take place

in their community, but you do not hear people on programs like this saying -- excuse me. you cannot hear a program saying -- you have never heard the term white on white crime. guest: because it is not a problem as it is in the black community. guest: the reality is, crime is a problem. when you take what happened in newtown -- guest: 50% of all prisoners are black. guest: i am not disregarding those facts. those facts are absolutely right, but what i am saying is, you talk about coming together. should we not come together over the issue of crime? should we not come together over the issue of what is killing all of us, no matter what our race is? that is the point i am trying to make. you cannot sit up there and just

-- of course people fear the killing they must live around. excuse me. you go to poor white communities, they fear the people that they live around. at the same time, they also work and respect and love each other. host: this is from laura who says to that young single moms is the quickest way to poverty, no matter what the color. this is from the census bureau looking at black families with children. 60% are single parent families. 20% for white families. and then you can see the rate of incarceration according to the census. african-american men from the ages of 20 to 24, 14% are incarcerated compared to 10% for white males, higher than those older ages.

guest: this is where personal responsibility comes in. i have always said, if you want to stop this classroom to prison pipeline, what you do is you teach your children to obey the law, to make sure they study in school, that they recognize, as the first lady said, that being smart is not acting white, and she was correct about that. the ku klux klan could i have come up with a better slogan. here is where public policy, as you were talking about teenage pregnancy -- and again, those statistics are real. i guarantee you, sunday morning there will be ministers in the black community preaching against it and telling people, please take personal responsibility. but let me add something. you talk about public policy, being from detroit. once a young girl becomes pregnant, we do not just toss

them aside. they are still somebody. they still need opportunity to lift themselves up. so what happens in the city of detroit with a school that allowed mothers who had children to attend their school, and almost 90% of those girls children went on to college? do you know what they did? they cut funding of that school. that is public policy. and that should not have been done. and so, again, you do not cut the floor from under the people who find themselves faced down on the floor. you give them the opportunity to lift themselves up. you heard the president say this in his speech. people do make bad decisions in

life. all three of us sitting here could go back in our lives and say, we should not have done this, we should not have done that. but just because you make a bad decision in light does not mean that you should be tossed aside. that is where public policy, and that is where i wish members of congress could sit down across the table, like we have been able to, identify those things that we agree upon, and help all people lift, so that the boat rises with the tide. host: we are just getting started, we have another half hour. joe madison and crystal wright at the table. we are digging into the speech of the president at morehouse college. long beach, california. good morning. trace, go ahead with your question or comment. guest: good morning, mr. madison, ms. wright, very interesting dialogue between the two of you.

i believe a lot of the answers lie between your two, somewhere in the middle. it is a combination of public policy and personal responsibility. now, to preface the president's speech in morehouse, i almost thought he was going to rap for a second. you know i mean? guest: i do. caller: the main issue with congress is how do we accommodate 20 million lawbreakers, and how does that disproportionately affect the african-american community? and not even the african- american community. i have white friends who are hurting. i am not going to stereotype or whatever, but the bottom line is, as african-americans, we

should not just vote democratic en mass. we have to open up ourselves and sort of be in place, like other special interest groups. my take on it, personally, if it is not good for america, it is not good for americans. we need to look at what is good for americans first. that will funnel down public policy as it relates to african- americans, but not just african- americans, but all who play by the rules and have a vested interest in seeing this country reach its full potential. the idea of the melting pot is a fantastic. there is no other place in the world like this. i have traveled. the diversity, the freedoms -- quickly, they are being eroded.

we cannot just vote blindly democratic. we have a black president who has a hard time identifying with black america and issues, but you cannot expect the violence to decrease when you have communities with 30% unemployment rates. host: i'm going to have you respond and get to into the conversation but i want to show you the comments of kevin phillips, a graduate of morehouse college, a pastor in philadelphia, and he wrote a piece in a philadelphia newspaper that make a couple of points. one is, why are we so loyal to a

president who is not loyal to us? secondly, more importantly, why are we loyal to a democratic party who ignores us and often takes our vote for granted? trace, how do you respond to that? caller: i totally agree. looking at my parents, grandparents, we are

conservative by nature, african- americans are. i also agree with ms. wright. i am offended when people compare the plight of illegal aliens to unemployed african- americans. what a stretch. it is political theater. once you really get serious about addressing the issues in the community, it is economics. i look at mr. madison, and i respect mr. madison and the work he has done, but it is like a lot of the old naacpers. you should not have to have a master's degree as an african- american to get work.

guest: you have to have a degree as a white person to get work, excuse me. let me give you an example. you go to any graduation and you ask the graduates to stand up. the largest group is usually i.t. graduates. these graduates in the united states are now competing -- and again, this is interesting. this is what the president said in his speech. you are now competing with people, students from brazil, china, from india. this is who you are competing against because this is the global economy that we live in. so what did india do? an underdeveloped nation decided it would invest in education to the point where they took low income people in poverty, got them an education, and now here is what happens. you have a degree in engineering, computer engineer from the united states, you demand ex-amount of dollars, and a corporation says, i can go to india and they can cut it in half. the of the thing i will speak to, the president can rap -- we know that he can sing. we know that he likes al green songs. i make the point because he was trying to identify with african- american men. number two, there is a great book out by former congressman william clay. i love it, i live by it, it has honed my political philosophy, and i would encourage everyone to read it, and maybe for c-span to get him on. there are no permanent enemies or friends. the book is titled "permanent interest." this is how most community

should look at politics. we should not have permanent friends, we should not have permanent enemies. we should have permanent interest. host: curtis makes this point to you. i am laughing out loud at the gop black chick trying to speak to black america at all. guest: i am laughing out loud that someone can make a comment like that. it is telling of the dire state that black americans are in. trace said it very well. black americans, for the last several decades, have voiced

their political capital and votes on democrats. i agree with joe. black americans, white americans, and hispanics, should vote on personal interest. tell me how illegal immigration will help black americans? before ronald reagan signed the and this the law into legislation, when congress passed immigration reform law, said that the border control was going to be in place, we are going to control our borders. never happened. blacks used to work blue-collar jobs that are being done by pennies on the dollar's by criminals, mostly by latino and hispanic descent, 11 million immigrants who are here are hispanic and latino. those jobs are being performed by black americans and white americans and legal other minorities. when you talk about the president's speech and his policies, why he gave that speech, he gave that speech because the congressional black caucus has been hot on his coat tails since the first term. do you know how many meetings the cbc has had with the president and they continue to deliver black votes to him?

it has been 700 days since the members of the black caucus told americans to give him four years to do better. he has not bother to meet with them in over 700 days. he has appointed a gentleman to hud, another that he has nominated to the head of fannie and freddie -- transportation, i'm sorry. before that, the congressional black caucus was howling. where are your appointments in the second term? we gave you 90% of the black vote. emanuel cleaver, the former chairman of the congressional black caucus, said, last year,

before the annual meeting in september, sat down with the roots and other publications and said, if hillary clinton had been in the white house or any white president, with a record like president obama has with black americans, emanuel cleaver said "i would be marching in front of the white house because double-digit unemployment is unacceptable, however, they gave him a break because he is black." is that going in your special interest? the congressional black caucus was formed to hold nixon accountable. guest: no, it was not, i was there. guest: maybe it was not founded for that reason. it is ok by you to get facts wrong. in 1971, after nixon became president, the congressional black caucus boycotted his state of the union because he refused to meet with them, is that right? all i'm saying is trace is right. regardless of skin color, he is

not being held accountable. frankly, it is about jobs. the president said to the morehouse graduates, you will be entering a top market because of my failed policies. unemployment was already reaching 10% and regulation after regulation, job killing. and he will not even touch tax reform in a meaningful way. host: he talked about the legacy of past leaders at the class 2013. [video clip] >> there's a common creed here. excuses are used to build bridges to know where and monuments of nothingness. we have no time for excuses. not because of a better leg -- the bitter legacy of slavery and

segregation have been banished, they have not. not because racism and discrimination no longer exist, we know those are still out there. it is just that in today's hyper-connected, hyper-connected hyper-competitive world, many who started with less than you did, all of them entering the global work force alongside you nobody is going to give you anything you did not earn. nobody cares how tough your upbringing was. nobody cares if you suffer some discrimination. and more over you have to remember that wherever you have a big it whatever you have got through it pales in comparison to the hardships previous generations had adored and they overcame that you can overcome them to. guest: i do not disagree with

anything he said. let me go back to this point of the congressional caucus. i was not directing you to dig at you. i was simply remind you that some of us know exactly what had happened -- martin luther king had been killed in 1968 and it appeared the civil rights movement was over. he said that, "is not the man, it is the plan." we have to have a plan. in terms of voting for democratic party, once again i am not asking for loyalty. if there should be interested, public education is extremely important to african americans. it has been the republican parting that has wanted to cut public education.

with all respect the republican party suggested that the department of education be disbanded. you mentioned ronald reagan several times. ronald reagan would not be the party candidate in this republican party. ronald reagan wanted tax reform when he was president of the united states. i have seen him ask -- he had asked that the wealthiest in our society should pay their fair share in taxes. if he had given that same speech at the republican convention he would have been round-booed. you have to be careful when bringing up ronald reagan in this at pastor today. you are 100% right, the congressional black caucus is constantly on the president of the united states. the president of the net states understands that, from what i know.

he hears this criticism. but their problem is not so much the president -- i will be quite honest, i had -- on my show. i asked him if the president is doing enough to help unemployment. he came out and said, "no, he is not doing enough. neither is the democratic party." the destruction is not with the democratic party. the obstruction is that the job programs that are being put on the table are often rejected. we just about 37 times to get rid of obama care. 37 times. i wish that had been 37 votes. the argument is these are not real jobs. someone said if it is a real paycheck it is a real job. host: american people to follow you on twitter? guest: i am glad you asked. we are known as "the view," channel 110, exclusively on sirius xm. it is an african-american talk channel. most people ask what we talk about, everything. [laughter] it is usually from our perspective and that is what you

are hearing. there is an ideological bent here. i read a speech given day by eisenhower, who says, "be careful of those -- and funding to public education." that came from a republican president to create one of the best public job programs this country knew. it was our interstate system that improved commerce and expanded beyond the public interest. host: on your earlier comment on our twitter page -- crystal, how can people follow you? guest: you will get some of the hate mail i get on a daily basis. host: we have another 56 in the last two minutes. luke is joining us from arizona. a democrat. joe madison and crystal wright. caller: it is greek to be on. i am a first-time caller. -- it is great to be on. i make first-time caller. my dad basically said whether you are african american, chinese-american, caucasian- americans, you are american first. that is what is important. all i wanted to say was that of the spat on black crime -- all of this black on black crime has do to get a situation.

there has always been violence whether it has been white ghettos. they barely got their civil- rights 50 years ago. white people have had it since the 17 eighties. the dixons the 78 east -- sicne the 1780s. [video clip] >> i will tell you that whatever success i have achieved and position of leadership i have held, it does not depend on the decrease or stores, it has to do with that sense connection apathy. the special obligation i felt as a black man like you to help those who needed it most. people who did not have the opportunities i had. there but for the grace of god go i.. i might have been in prison. i might have been unemployed. i might have not been able to support a family. that motivates me. host: your response? guest: that portion of the president's speech i agree with. i would like to go further. the president would not be the man he was today would it not been for his mother. i think it was his maternal grandparents who then raced him for a large part of his formative years as a preteen and teenager in hawaii. he had a network. his mom died and he was very fortunate.

he had adults in his life who cared about him. what i would like to see the president do more of is really talk about the harsh reality facing black americans. we are not they're being at the rate of our white counterparts we are not marrying at the rate of our white counterparts. it is not about getting a job,

[video clip] >> i will tell you that whatever success i have achieved and position of leadership i have held, it does not depend on the decrease or stores, it has to do with that sense connection -- empathy. the special obligation i felt as a black man like you to help those who needed it most. people who did not have the opportunities i had. there but for the grace of god go i.. i might have been in prison. i might have been unemployed. i might have not been able to support a family. that motivates me. host: your response? guest: that portion of the president's speech i agree with. i would like to go further. the president would not be the man he was today would it not been for his mother.

i think it was his maternal grandparents who then raced him for a large part of his formative years as a preteen and teenager in hawaii. he had a network. his mom died and he was very fortunate. he had adults in his life who cared about him. what i would like to see the president do more of is really talk about the harsh reality facing black americans. we are not they're being at the rate of our white counterparts we are not marrying at the rate of our white counterparts. it is not about getting a job, it is about being a responsible man and valuing marriage. he highlighted a young man --

that is look at this. he highlighted a young man in his speech. he had to move down to a lento when they're in high school. he is planning to go to college somewhere up north. he moved back page he enrolled and it did not go so well. when you try to raise a kid as a teenager, you cannot go to school. this young man, it took him three tries. while this is awesome that this young man is finishing the challenges are that when you decide to get married -- when you decide to have out of wedlock sex and you are not ready to take responsibility of it, according to brookings institute your chances of going into poverty are over 70%. mitt romney did a great speech on the campaign trail. he bailed will fully following up in any relationship with black americans. at the naacp mitt romney talked about talked about -- mitt romney talked about how marriage and education -- it was alluded to in the president's remarks -- he talked about poor schools in urban cities in chicago. the president acts as though he has not lived in chicago. he knows the schools are bad because of the teacher's union. the reason the conservatives wanted the ban -- wanted to ban the department of education is because they are trying to mandate standards to school rather than provide school choices and vouchers, which is

the republican party is part of which is what the republican party is a part of. the president defunds that program year in and year out, it is a scholarship program here in washington d.c.. host: i am absolutely amazed. we demonize teacher unions. i was involved in the demonstration in wisconsin. these are the same teachers who were just in oklahoma city that through their bodies of these children to protect them. these are the same teachers in newtown, connecticut who were killed protecting the children. these have the same teachers -- we do not pay teachers enough in this country. teachers ought to be making more than these athletes that high salaries, as far as i am concerned. we have a problem with what they call classroom to prison pipeline. i just did it -- i am doing a show tomorrow at the mississippi. they are taking poor young african-american children who are getting in trouble because he wore a different colored

socks paid a set of disciplining him he calls the police and a rested him. -- colored socks. instead of disciplining him he calls the police and a trusted him. -- and arrested him. host: this comet to both of you. this is the best conversation i have ever heard on c-span. guest: just one point on the

teacher's union. host: let me just get to john in florida. caller: good morning. a quick comment -- when you're talking about the black congressional caucus >> it is like affirmative action. this is a floating form they are not getting action. that is one of the downsides of affirmative action. you keep hoping that it did not get the change. guest: that is not true. let me stop you. he is late to the program. i remember when i was in washington university, they're young guys that played football who were from east st. louis. i do not have to tell you about east st. louis. these young men were given an opportunity to attend a university that they probably would not have been able to afford. they did not have the highest sats. one young man named to the shelby jordan in los angeles is a major land developer. another man is the former chief of police of east st. louis.

another man is sitting here in front of you. when i ended up going into washington university -- and many of us were given the opportunity to go to that school we had to take the same exam's everybody else took. we had passed those exams. nobody expected us to go into that school and coast. this attitude that you are not getting anything from affirmative action, you have ben carson, prof. gates at harvard, and i would say you have hillary clinton and usually president george bush who got in on his legacy program. host: more from the president at morehouse college.

[video clip] >> it is up for you to widen your circle of concern, to care about justice for everybody. white, black, and brown. everybody, not just in your own community but all across this country and around the world. to make sure everyone has a voice. everyone gets to see -- everyone has a seat at the table. the matter what you look like or where you come from, what your last name is -- it doesn't matter. everybody gets a chance to walk through those doors of opportunity if they're willing to work hard enough. host: we had this one tweet to says -- a lot of commons and conversation on this. let us conclude with you. guest: i want to go back to

teachers because my mother was a teacher in the richmond city public school system for years. she taught to the gardener's through second grade. she helped beyond the classroom. i do not think my mother was a member of the teachers' union. i am a product of private school and public school education. my teachers -- i am against teacher's unions. i think it is a fallacy to say i note teachers teaching in private and parochial schools that are very happy. i agree that teachers need to be better compensated batus with the charter schools are all about. principals and heads the school's control of what teachers get paid. what is going on in wisconsin and other states is they are trying to take the stranglehold that teacher's jobs should come

before the job they are hired to do, which is to educate. if you really believe that you are willing to throw your body i pray for the new town teachers. without them we would have had a greater loss. facing guns that are being brought into the school and handling that in an elegant manner and a safeway, i would like to see kids go to public schools with less metal detectors. republicans -- to say that republicans do not respect teachers, it is wrong. guest: you should check with her. a bet you one thing, she got a good pension because of the union. if she was not in member she benefited from whatever the unions negotiated. but the reality is the reason

most folks got a teaching unions and other unions is because of its political force. this is one way of dismantling political forces in this country. that is part of the history. host: this is going to be the hardest part of the morning. in a single word or very short phrase how would you describe the president's speech? guest: a plus. i thought it was a speech those young men should hear. unfortunately he had only 30 minutes. it was a good speech and first lady did a magnificent job.

host: christo right and joe madison -- crystal wright and joe madison, thank you both for >> this is about 35 minutes. >> we'll turn our attention to energy issues and a new book out by michael levi, it is called, "the power surge." a look back at some of the mistakes over the last 30 to 40 years. first, a look at some of the other son the programs that can be heard on c-span real get away at noon eastern time. -- getting under way at noon eastern time. good morning. >> good morning. on to the's talk-show topics include u.s. treasury relations,

the situation in syria, and the irs. -- will begin with nbc's "meet i argue in the book that we need to rethink what these changes in energy need for our economy and security. not throwing everything in because there are dangers with this and indeed even be of some of these stale 40 year old debates. host: i want to share a couple of exceptions from the book and you have some recommendations for the future. this is an summarizes what you're trying to say in the text of the book. the united states is in the throes of two on foreign energy revelations. should the united states focus on expanding's fuel supplies or ought of uping alternative energy sources? the solution is a strategy to increase opportunity law protecting risks -- while protecting against important risks. guest: we have been able to

produce more oil and gas due to advances in technology of the last seven years. we have gained because cost of solar power has come down. that gives us the opportunity to lower the mission. this because we create these opportunities does not mean we should take that into every single one of them. we could burn coal for the next hundred years but it would cost catastrophic damages for climate changes. we could consume a lot more oil than we do. it would expose our volatility in markets and to geopolitical problems abroad. we want to create opportunities but we too want to thin out our energy system to protect ourselves against the risks associated with the interests local environmental impacts, global climate change, and the

political and economic risks. -- and geopolitical economic risks. host: number two is to focus on big wins. guest: we can get into the deep weeds of trying to fine-tune our energy system. there are all sorts places where things did not quite right. if you go back over the last few decades of our energy history you find that it held into a battle not over and a jeep over ideology, with the the government should be big or small. -- whether the government should be big or small. i think we should be able to focus on small set of big bang efforts, whether it is expanding opportunities for production, making people pay the prices of copper a mission. -- of copper and a mission. -- a car and a mission. we can avoid going the other way where we rely only on the market's. it does not do everything we need. number three is in power and energy development. on that point, explain. guest: that system is global. we worry about it being global weather is vulnerability from the middle east or dangers created by global climate change or opportunities we have to export energy technologies. let us take natural gas as an example. we have surging production in the united states. we have natural gas passing goal as the top domestic source of energy in 2011. now we are having a debate as to whether a to allow exports.

our decision will have consequences not only for our economy but in relationships with our allies, local trade regime, and the geopolitical costs. countries from europe to northeast asia can bring in and deal with international issues the united states cares about. we need to make the right was on issues like that in order to of take full of vantage -- in order to take full advantage of what is happening. i asked the secretary-general of opec what he thinks is happening. one of his answers was he thought this could be good news. maybe they will stop blaming

opec so much for your problems. what he meant is baby will stop worrying so much -- maybe you'll stop worrying so much about what you consume. it means we decided not to worry so much how much we consume, we would become more vulnerable in the world. that would be unfortunate outcome of all that is happening in the united states. host: our guest is michael levi. he is the senior the keys on the senior counsel of foreign relations pekin's and send e- mail or join us on our social media -- you can send us an e- mail or join us on social media. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to mention to this gentleman that i think the lack of refineries in this country is a big thing. that is all due to

environmentalists. we cannot get along without oil. everything you look at is made from oil. as far as this global warming, host: there is this on global climate change -- guest: 96 refinery peace first. you do not but while in your tank, you put gasoline in. at a minimum we need that trend information sharing so we do not have the simultaneous refinery outages like we have had a lead in recent weeks. on climate change we face large risks. there have been large global temperature increases in the last 100 years. i will not say we can protect the future with certainty. the global climate system is extraordinarily complex. what you see when you look out at the models -- i look at these models in a different way than some of my policy colleagues. what you see is that while the outcomes can be better than the mainstream production they can also be a lot worse.

we could also get it to feedback loops where heating warms the arctic, the dark water absorbers' more heat and once the planet more. for me, what i focus on is that risk. we are not certain things will be off on us to get returned and unless we get to a certain concentration of greenhouse gases. we know cost effectively how to cut our emissions. we are making a more cost- effective. more cost-effective gas means it easier to cut emissions by switching away from coal. costs of a new look -- cost of renewable energy provides an opportunity in the future to reduce our emissions even more. host: are destroying is from washington d.c.. good morning.

caller: double for being on. i agree with what you say. this is been around since the 1960's. it has been a reactor. for military reasons it was dropped in favor of the white water reactor because the needed materials for bombs. this reactor combines soil, it can burn -- the mit can out with a waste in salt reactor. it takes the risk -- it takes the existing rods, uses that material, and burns 99%. it is not a pressurized reactor so it will not explode. if you return of all of the electricity in the entire

facility -- if you were to turn off all the electricity in the entire set facility the reactor would turn off naturally. of the guest: double for the call. at if you turn off the plant doesn't require electricity, this is extraordinarily important a part of a wide range of new generation nuclear reactors. that is an important perth -- we that is an important thing we need to pursue. he did if you went back five years ago you would see nuclear power struggling very hard to compete on cost in the united states. with the surge in natural gas production you have an even more

difficult predicament for nuclear power. if we want to look at in the future and see nuclear power have a real shot in the united states i think is going to have to be in part because we pursue a serious policy on carbon emissions. nuclear power has one big advantage over its competitors, it does not generate carbon dioxide emissions. it does not get credit for that because it is in christ into our system. here is an area where there should be some natural agreement between the last -- between the left and right that we can go after climate change and press card in a way that boosts the prospects of nuclear power,

which a lot on the right are enthusiastic about. instead we tend to see the worst part of each other rather than the opportunity for both to benefit. host: back to the book, you were right -- -- you write -- a speech to refer to in the book from the during 1977, more than 35 years ago. president jimmy carter in one of his first speeches as a newly elected president. [video clip] >> our program will emphasize conservation. the amount of energy being wasted which could be saved is greater than the total energy that we are importing from

foreign countries. we will also stress development of our rich coal reserves in an environmentally sound way. we will emphasize research on solar energy and other renewable energy sources. we will maintain strict safeguards on necessary atomic energy production. the responsibility for setting energy policy is now split among more than 50 different agencies, departments, and bureaus in the federal government. i will ask the congress to combine these agencies to a new energy department to bring order out of chaos. >> that was february 1977. every president since jimmy carter has touched upon some of the same things he talked about.

how much progress have we made back guest: we have not made a enormous amount of progress on the policy front. it is extraordinarily big it is extraordinary when you look at that speech. in the aftermath of the 1973 energy crisis we see progress on multiple fronts. pipelines are approved within the year, the first ever fuel economy standard for cars and trucks within the next two. but the time jimmy carter makes the speech we are much more focused on fighting for one pastor the other rather than on trying to move forward on both fronts. but the 1980 election to carter attacked both sides -- got attack on both sides. i will sit at the carter energy plan was not perfect. -- i will not say the carter energy pie was perfect but it combined all the energy and new energy. host: was his message right or wrong? guest: it was a message we needed to pursue fossil fuel

production and clean energy at the same time. i would argue with some of the details. we thought we had no natural gas and in this country and essentially banned increase production. that caused some problems in the long run. not everything was perfect about it. the basic philosophy made a lot of sense. in the 1980's and 1990's we focused on energy. we had energy come back with a vengeance in the last decade. we have a new opportunity to move forward on both of those fronts.

>> he did create the department of energy that in 1977. we now have a new energy secretary. " recommendations would you give him? guest: i recommend that he took on several fronts at the same time. department is doing significant work in the technology development. they had a big international component. they need to leverage what is happening here. they have a lot of expertise on fossil fuel. they're going to be dealing with issues like natural gas exports and providing recommendations on how to better safeguard us against risks associated with cracking. they also have opportunities on nuclear. if we want to be able to seize opportunities on nuclear down the road we are clinton need to get our waste issue under control. host: the point on our twitter page -- is that true? guest: on nuclear power in france also comes from government support. if you have a system where government is essentially flat in power plants, they are a lot cheaper. i do not think that is the direction we want to go in the united states where the government has a strong role. nuclear is going to have a very tough time competing in the united states, no matter what other changes we make, unless we allow it to take -- unless we are allowed to good vantage of the price. to get back to those options we need to have a lot of options but we need to make sure they compete on a level playing field. host: with regard to natural gas [indiscernible] i am not sure if that is the solution to our problems.

guest: we need to make sure we do it right. that is not about responsible corporate practices. it's about having the right rules in place and making sure they are enforced properly. we hear stories about dangerous natural gas. i would focus on three basic ones. the disposal of waste water, air quality around the sides, and the impacts on committees. i traveled in communities where natural gas development is happening. that really is the biggest impact. you meet people who are thrilled because they have orders above their shop.

you hear people who are terrified because their businesses depend on water and they do not trust the town to do things right. we really need to make sure that the communities that deal with this think ahead, integrate development into their broader plans and broader lives, and have the rules in place to make sure bad actors do not reckitt for the community and development, so that we can to the vantage of the opportunities created. host: he is author of "power search." 0 is joining us from hampton, virginia. caller: i would like to say that the mitt relations with china in the united states are totally different and unfair. the biggest problem is we put so much money and green and not enough money in coal. we can control the situation by having cars that run less fuel that still use oil. we use the money we make off of oil and put it into fuel. we need to give tax exemption to companies that will not go green and will not build plants cheaper. we take all the money and the government is wasting it. they are not controlling the money that needs to go where it needs to go. we need to tighten up on china because if we do not the american flight is going to be

lowered. -- the american flag is going to be lowered. host: the president meeting on friday and saturday with the president of china. it is their first bilateral meeting and as the president of china comes to the u.s., ironically the added bird stake in sunnyvale -- do you think energy will come up? guest: there's a lot of talk in town about looming u.s. energy dependence. north american produce as much oil as it sells. china is worried that the united states will be less committed to stability in the middle east, less committed to the security of the ceilings that connects the middle east with markets in china.

while the president's national security adviser have been out there saying we are still committed and part of the global oil market despite rising production in the bad state, you did not need to worry, i am not sure that the message is entirely getting through. i suspect there will be a discussion on that and the president will probably try to reinforce the united states is there providing security. we do not want china to be stepping in and controlling the ceilings between the united states and the middle east are being provider security of the middle east.

host: we do need have a conversation about clean energy, about trade resections, about chinese subsidies on solar power, there are issues on the side of the question that are essential too. . host: ipad people comment that china is in third place because of cold. guest: the power plant operators will not turn two scrubbers on. your ability to control your emissions and improve your capability to enforce your ruling -- china has been taught as their patron is also pushing for on clean energy technologies for competitiveness purposes. and the net as it is too. i did not know she did i do not know we should be in a clean energy race. host: -- look at u.s. and global energy issues. wynn from louisiana, republican line, good morning. caller: i cannot figure out where those guys are coming from. there is no such thing as greenhouse problems. we cannot live without oil and gas. we cannot run airplanes also of powers.

i do not know -- we cannot run their plants on solar power. i do not know what you're saying. we need energy we do not need some kind of like coming about because of climate change. obama couldn't get his cap and trade past. guest: we could be producing more oil in the united states as we should be at the same time cutting our oil consumption. it is true you cannot put a window on a carpet you can substitute zero carbon electricity for carbon which electricity sources. what is essential if we move past the release simple either- or answers. they would probably say we should be cutting our oil use and because we are cutting it we

should cut the amount of oil we produce. even outside of climate change will gain because we are exposed to about zero -- exposed to geopolitical entanglement around the world and rising oil prices. at the climate change is a good reason to do more on that front. if you do not that is plenty of reason to beast pursuing other goals. host: let me share with you some of the recommendations you have for congress. guest: it has been so long since we have had big deals on energy that the right and left -- i think we will need to have some smaller deals to rebuild the ability to move forward on both fronts at the same time. i recommended a few places to start. one would be expanding leasing for oil and gas and some of the

proceeds to support innovation on alternative energies. similar to the proposal the president made in his state of the union address. we have oil subsidy tax reductions that do not increase oil production. we could be orient those to increase technology -- we could read-orient those to generate power from coal and use the carbon dioxide, a puppet of the ground to increase oil production. we did a carbon gain but we also improved oil production. online's development, one of the things that struck me was that you could find people who are upset about every kind of oil and gas and solar and wind development.

i found out that the matt damon movie that looked at tracking -- looked as fracking -- the reason they decided to not focus on the wind development is because the turbines were too noisy. we should unite people that want to take advantage of oil and gas production. you cannot build anything without enormous opposition. host: our next caller is from portland, oregon. denise is on the line. caller: somebody was talking about something i was interested in. it amazes me, it seems like we must watch different

documentary's and read different books. people have different opinions. from what i have learned i am sure the guest knows much more. weren't electric cars taking office two years ago and the car, ks killed them? subject and the car companies killed them -- and the car companies killed them? are we so entrenched in oil? guest: i think we're starting to look at hybrid-electric car is in serious way. in the aftermath of the first oil crisis people started to look at hybrids. they were not pure enough for anyone. people who loved whale -- these were not purely about also did not make sense.

there were people interested in alternatives and they were not interested in something that still used will in any way. it fell between the cracks. engineers he did them because they needed two engines. now we have an evolutionary pathway. we have had the previous become one of the top-selling cars and leave the world -- the prius become one of the top-selling cars in the world. that we see an evolutionary pathway from hybrid electric cars and thoughtfully electric the chorus. a couple of the potential upload on between now and then picked up lot of potential road bumps between now and then -- a lot of potential road bumps between 10th and. when i went to test drive an electric car i noticed in mustang sitting by the track. i figured out that was the biggest contrast i could find between an electric car and a traditional car. the mustang cut more than 30

miles to the gallon because people are using the material, the of the south are urging that not only allows it to a separate pastor but saves on fuel. we have a pet peeves we need -- we have all of these different funds. host: the market has killed the electric car, that is his tweet. guest: the market has not put the electric car as the main thing we use because it is not ready to be the main car that we use. if you look at tesla investors they would not say the market has killed the electric car. it has killed ambitions for the electric car. if we move ahead at the kind of peace some people are foreseeing i think it can be a big part of our occupation. -- of our equation. i do not want to focus on just one. we are exploring that for long distance trucking. people are using it for committing.

we will solve everything -- we will not solve everything. that is why we need to move forward on some of the different fronts. host: last month the house pushed a bill to move ahead with the keystone xl pipeline. the president said -- would the pipeline make a difference? is that an example of policy in this country? guest: the pipeline should not be a big debate. it has a small climate impact and small economic impact. somehow it has become the central focus of the american energy debate. people say it will begin over-- be game overfor the client if it moves

forward and it would be a windfall for national security. i think it is being blown grossly out of proportion. we need to focus on the things that matter. you talked about big wins. the keystone xl pipeline is not a big win. it does not have a big impact either way. it has an impact and we need to make sure in particular that the pipeline is safe and protected against leaks. we are able to deal with whatever problems inevitably happen when we have oil in our system. but i wish that not only congress but people more broadly were able to focus on bigger picture issues and energy rather than getting tied up with all of these points that are not so consequential on the ground. host: this point -- let us go to mark in burbank,

california. caller: i did not think we have an energy problem at all. if we can design a plant in southern states to power the whole world -- it is ridiculous to think small. i am in the entertainment business. we use all mirrors and lights. -- did not have to have sort solar panels on the surface, it can be underground. guest: we still have a challenge on large-scale solar power in cost. the i visited a plant outside pittsburgh as manufacturing electric cars for solar power. they built the plant a few years ago. it was only half completed when i arrived because of american

policy that would have supported development has not come through in a way that the plant owners had anticipated. i look at the panels on the side and ask for these enormous heavy mirrors were being shipped and they said a lot were being shipped to india because they are on a national solution to provide support for social development. if we want to see these technologies catch on is going to require some support from government, in addition to a big push from private investment and for technology innovation. host: this question -- guest: i am not sure which car he is talking about. we have very small cars in europe that are increasingly available in the dead since then have a higher mpg rating. -- in the united states that have a higher mpg rating. europe has been able to take it vantage of it to increase its technology.

we need to look across the board at the rules be applied to new cars so to buy one in europe with the potential reasons why is there may be regulatory reasons. host: he says -- david is joining us from lancaster, pennsylvania. go-ahead.

are you with us? caller: was curious about the whole fracking thing. i think they have a great pr. i have heard a lot of farms have had a bad of runoff with fracking. i want to know more about the bad part of it. i think there is a problem with that. host: we will get a response. guest: there is too much slick pr and not enough squaring up with people. and that with the mayor of a ohio city is said he was a former schoolteacher. he said he used to tell his students to just tell me they

are not quite sure. we need to have a more trusting and open and honest relationship between producers and the communities where they operate. the caller is right, if you to hydraulic fracturing wrong your point run into problems. the biggest problem is likely to be if developers to it with water that comes out of a well when you produce natural gas, of the fluids that go into the water the comes back out that brings the chemicals from the underground and disposes of that not in a proper injection well or a disposal facility but in a nearby stream and contaminates that area, or if the stored in a pond nearby create these source, speaking to the surrounding areas.

we need to make sure this is done properly. we can do that without -- the international energy agency's did a study where it looked at 22 rules for natural gas development that it said it would bring us up to a golden set of standards. it is estimated this would cost an additional 7% on each well. that is not a radical cost in exchange for advancements across the board in safety. host: if you could give president carter agreed on his policy, looking back 30 years, what would it be? guest: it's tough to give an ultimate great. in a couple of years most of that policy would have been abandoned. we switched to focus on the regulation. -- on the regulation. we did not push for a fuel economy rules and we became more dependent on will from the middle east as a global market. i think it is impossible to give a grade. there were a lot of good elements there. therapies as we should not have had, particularly a huge push on call.