president obama speaks at the white house conference on mental illness. and then a joint university forum on the president's second term. >> carlisle scott harrison bass worn -- caroline scott harrison was born when she met benjamin harrison. she grew into an accomplished artist, interested in women's issues. although the harrison presidency has been rated as fairly unsuccessful by some historians, those who tracked first ladies considered carolina harrison as one of the more underrated to serve in this role. we'll learn why in this segment of "first ladies: influence and image" and here to tell us more about the story of carolina harrison, our two guests who now the office well.

edie, thanks for coming back. and bill, white house historian, has spent his professional career understanding the history of that building. bill and edie are both members of c-span sass -- c-span's academic advisory committee for this series. we're going to start with an illustration tonight. like to -- the white house itself is one of the most iconic buildings in the world. i think -- >> certainly, yeah. >> is -- if caroline harrison had had her way, it would like different today. we have her designs for the white house that we'd like to show people at home right now. what were her plans? what was she trying to do with this big expansion of the white house? >> well, it was a time of big spending in his administration. the government was spending a lot of money. and she got into it by wanting to create a house, they were crammed in this house. they only lived upstairs. you see, to understand it, on

the picture, the middle of the upper picture, the columns and just the four windows to each side of it, the office was on the left. the east room wrast was just below that and the other public rooms on the ground floor, then the other end, the west end, or the right side, was the family quarters which was seven rooms and a bath and a half and she wanted something big to live in. but something also to entertain in because the harrisons entertained all the time. and so she had this plan done which you see here. you're looking at the south, of the back part of the white house with the round porch, where president truman later built a balcony. the center part is the old white house building that was finished in the 18th century and the white house is on a bank. that's 17 feet from -- on one side it's one story -- two-story house. story house on the

walkout on the back. about 17 feet, i guess. and so what you see here was a quad rangel with the green houses that they had had, which were really specimen conservetories up. see that's dropped. so the windows would still have the beautiful view of the potomac. it would not have been anence closed area -- an enclosed area. on the right sood was to be, as i recall, the national gallery or the national museum. it was not washington one. and then there were other public rooms on the other side. the second floor then had guest room, family quarters and such as that to make it a much more livable house, as well as the office. >> looks a bit like some of the grand houses of europe. this is going to brand the other traditionalists, but are you happy she wasn't success snfl >> yes, i am. from our point of view. it was basically theodore roosevelt who insisted it be restored. >> edie, what's interesting about the story is this woman came into the white house not being seen as political but she had an innate sense of how the lobby was.

she was successful in getting it past the senate. tell the story of how she put together that winning coalition for the senate. >> well, she went about lobbying through her entertaining in the first place. but she also called in the press and showed them the plans and got them to sign on that this was really a good idea. and of course they were in the white house at the centennial of the presidency. so she thought this would be a wonderful plan. as a memorial for the 100th anniversary, the nation had and in power and she wanted a residence that reflected the global power of the united states. so this was a perfect opportunity. so she called in the press, she got a lot of major people in washington interested. she lobbied the senate. she lobbied the house.

and i will let bill tell why it failed. >> before we do that, she also enlisted the help of a former first lady. >> harriette lane. she brought her in and she also used the name of george washington and how this would be, you know, a fitting memorial and so forth. >> he had built the house. she was just making it work. >> right. >> and hadn't washington also envisioned that it could have been added on? >> he did. in years to come. >> so, she won the senate but in the house she ran into a formidable foe which was the speaker reid. >> speaker tom reed from maine. he was a great adversary of benjamin harrison. hey fought a lot over bills. and someone from california was mrs. harrison's great ally. and he spent the night sleeping in the cloakroom, hoping the appropriation would go through. but speaker reed, he was a very razor-tongued kind of sharp guy, and he cooked up this story that harrison had

appointed a postmaster in maine without his approval and he crashed the whole thing. he wouldn't let it come up. >> so, lacking her ability to expand the white house, she turned to restoring what she already had. >> she redecorated. thinking and hoping it was a minor thing to do. and she became interested in the historic house and began researching things. and pulling out antiques and stuff and putting them in the different rooms and she had a decorator in boston make things spiffy. tiffany had been the last one to do the rooms. and they were very rundown. the special effects and all that nobody could reproduce. >> she didn't just find old furniture that had been stored in the white house. here's a quote of what else she discovered in the white house. this is from her diary and we'll be using quotes from her very prolific diary throughout our program tonight.

>> tell me the story of the rafts in the white house. >> washington has a very prolific and well-known rat community. , so they had infested the white house. and were both in the basement and i guess also in thed aic. >> yeah. >> and -- in atic. >> yeah. >> and so apparently the man with the ferrets was brought in to help reduce the rat population. but there was also a man with a gun i think. who was shooting the rats whenever he saw them. >> he would proceed her through atic. then strangely enough, atic had no access to it. the little back stair that lincoln made famous was taken out and the elevator was put in there and somehow stair access to two floors, so they had to go on a ladder, up above the elevator, and she went, little tiny woman.

she went up there with this guard, with the gun, and they began pulling things out of boxes and a rat would appear and he'd shoot it. and they were big ones, too. >> he'd shoot, she'd scream. >> she'd scream. >> is how the story goes. we would like to invite you to participate. this series, which we've been learning so much and hope you are too, this is our next to last for season one. and we'd love to have your comments and your participation and questions tonight. you can do it three ways. you can call us. and our phone numbers in eastern and several time zones -- >> make sure you dial that 202 area code. if you would like you can also join our social community, our facebook page already has some comments coming in. and you can tweet us, but if you do, use the#firstladies. as she approached the white house, she was criticized by

the press for being overly domestic. >> that's correct. >> what was the view of the changing first lady that it would be criticized? >> i think they thought that doing actual housework, which was what was room railroad -- which what what was rumored, rather than looking for historical treasures and trying to salvage the history of the white house and presidency, it was looked at as she was, you know, actually engaging in housework and maybe, who are, cooking their own meals. and this was seen as very much beneath the dignity of a first lady. but one of the things that she mirrors in the time is the growing home economics movement. which organized itself around 1890. and so she was very much a part of her times in anticipating what was thought to be the professionalization of housework. so instead of being praised for

what she did, she was criticized. and she could not fathom why there was all this, you know, scorn and mocking and so forth in the press of what she was doing in the white house, but i think people didn't quite understand what she was trying to accomplish. >> i would have thought that washington is hard on first ladies. they've been a little hard on mrs. obama. they are until they sort of prove themselves. and she had been around, he been in the senate, they'd been in washington means times. she was a popular woman in washington, socially. but when she got in the house, it was a little different. >> different viewpoint. she was very hurt by the crit similar. >> what we learn is that the press went into a frenzy. it was the booming age of newspapers, there was coverage in magazines. so, the press was prepared to cover this first lady and weren't happy with what they were seeing. here's one quote from her

diary. she wrote about the press, i am disgusted with newspapers and reporters. truth is the characteristic entirely unknown to them. santament we what might hear from presidents today. >> very modern. > plus, she was following this absolutely gorgeous young woman. so that must have been very, very difficult. >> and a clever young woman. >> very clever woman. young and with a husband who had no use for p.r. so people flocked around francis -- frances cleveland. >> frances was the sort of jacklin kennedy of her age. she was quite beautiful. >> about 10 years younger than mrs. kennedy was. >> she was 10 years younger than jackie was when she entered the white house. so she was very, very popular. of course there was this whole thing about this may-december romance that had taken place with the president. and much speculation before he actually married that maybe he

was courting her mother. then there was the sort of he was that, no, courting the young and beautiful frances. >> she was a beautiful woman but she was not -- frances cleveland, franky as she was known in the press, was just -- to tell a story about how clever she was. you may have had it on this show. >> she had her due last week. >> the president of spain is the first real visitor of state. she was the same as age as mr. cleveland. there was a reception at the white house and a pretty, pretty woman had -- wore pearls clear to the full and diamonds nd all that stuff.

ms. cleveland wore an off-white silk dress. it was a coup. she stole the show. >> benjamin harrison, our 23rd president, he was the publican -- he was a democrat. we're going to learn about some of the policies of his administration. but we talked about the fact that we'd be reading quotes for her diary and dave measure douk on twitter asks, knowing how important the presidency had become, did caroline expect her diary to be made public someday? we're going answer that question about her diaries by visiting the harrison house. it is in indianapolis. and if you get to the cap cal -- capital city of indiana, visit it yourself. we're going to visit there for the first time and learn more about the diaries. >> caroline harrison's white house diary, this is something that we don't have out very often. she kept the diary and you can

see very fragile. so she's written in the front here, keeping the diary and the dates. 1889. to 1891 for this one. in the die reshe mentions several different things she mentions going to arlington cemetery and decorating the soldier's gravesite at arlington. she mentioned riding with benjamin to the soldier's home and hospital. some of the things that were very near and deer to her here were working with orphans and with the hospitals and she continued to do some of that while she was in washington as well, visiting the hospitals and what not there as well. but she also mentioned some of the other events and things that are going none her diary. her artistic abilities i think -- [inaudible] and love of flowers. she mentioned making -- having the floral arrangements for several different bank wets and dinners. ne was -- south american

countries meeting. she mentions decorations there as well. his is a dinner at the arlington in washington, d.c., and you can see the table setting had quite a large group. we have the vice president, the president and where the different delegations were sitting at that particular dinner. she also talks a lot about the centennial celebration in new york for the centennial of george washington's inauguration. from 1789 to 1889. things from the banquets and one of the parades was 7 1/2 hours long. and then also very personal and family-related things mentioned in the diary as well. mentioned how she's feeling, what the weather is like. but one of the things that she talks about is the kristening of their young granddaughter, mary lodge mckee. and she says that they used water from the river jordan that her sister had brought back from a trip over there. and we actually have some of that water in our collection

yet today. so we have a little container here. actually have, you know, some water in there as well. a bottle with the label there that her sister had brought back. and mary lodge mckee was chistened in a private ceremony at that time and she also mentions christmas at the white house and having the tree put up for the grandchildren and the harrisons had the first decorated christmas tree in the white house. and she mentioned some of the gifts that were given to her at that time including some opera glasses. so we have her opera glass here's that were given to her as a christmas gift that she mentions in the diary as well. >> so the answer to the viewer's question is it looks like she intended for these to be public documents. >> but you never know. if she had started much earlier, a person can get so absorbed in a diary, it becomes a confidant or friend.

i don't know whether she did or not. she didn't do other things. like that. self-promotional or showing her. you know, she and the president both suffered from depression. and eventually it had an impact on her health. but they fought that together very hard by keeping busy. >> they lost one. >> the white house in that time was filled with children but they were their grandchildren, correct? >> their grandchildren and their children. the son was in and out. he lived in montana. but his wife was there. and the children and then the daughter, mary, who's called maimie, and the little boy who became world famous for doing nothing. just being baby mckee. at the white house. >> right.

so what was life at the white house like? >> crowded. and lots and lots of entertaining. the evening was absolutely absorbed with it. remember the office was in the house. at the other end of the hall from the family quarters. so it was -- there were about 15 servants as i recall. most federal employees from the agencies and they are paid from the agencies and all these children and the routine of the private house, plus the public activities, it was a very busy place. >> we mentioned at the outset that the first lady was an artist and we're going to learn a little bit more about the kind of art she particularly loved but first let's do a few calls. we'll talk to horr simbings -- horris from philadelphia. before ask you the question, would you mute the volume on your tv? we're getting feedback. >> sure. thank you for taking my call. i've been watching the series right along. i'm enjoying it very, very

much. can you tell bus her background? who were her parents, where was she raised? was she et kated? long before she met her husband, can you tell us about that? >> sure. can you take that and we're going to spend a segment on it later on. >> well, she was born and brought up in oxford, ohio. her father had been a minister, but at the time he was a professor. at the university, miami university. nd then went on to found the oxford women's institute which was a college for women. and so her parents were both extremely well educated and her father was a supporter of women's education. so he made certain that his daughter had a good one. that sort of at interested her for the future women's accomplishments and

the progress of women. >> laura is watching in clarksville, indiana. you're on. >> i why are the first ladies called the first ladies? >> that's a good question. >> well, i think that started when zachary taylor used that term for dolly madson during her memorial service in 1849. and he said she was truly the first lady of our land. she was a connection to the revolutionary time period and she keeps coming back to the white house. she was the first in social standing, probably for 16 years . first as jefferson's stand-in, first lady then, first lady on her own. but she continued to have great influence. and so i think that's how it started, that she was the first in stature. and that name carried on.

it beant really picked up until after the -- it wasn't really picked up until after the civil war. mrs. hayesment although i think harriette layne had that under some of her photographs in harpers and so anyway, but it just means the first among everyone. >> linda, bloomington, minnesota, you're on. >> good evening. i have a question that relates to my own family. i had a grandmother whose name was kate harrison and then she married and her name was thomas and she grew up i believe in missouri. there was a story that her mother had been married in the white house and i don't know if there's any truth to this, but i thought perhaps you might know if there was a wedding in the white house during benjamin harrison's term there. >> it would not be surprising but i don't know that name.

local newspapers would probably carry it. both in washington and wherever they were from. that's where i would look for it if i were looking for it. but i don't -- i know in lincoln's time there were marriages in the white house. john adams' and some others but i don't know any in the harrison tenure. >> one more question and then we'll learn more about the first ladies' -- the first lady's artistic endeavors. charlotte from olympia, washington. what's your question? >> hi. i just wanted to mention i had had the fortune of going through indianapolis last fall and got to visit the harrison home and it's a beautiful house , i've been able to go to several presidential homes but they have so much actual furniture that belongs to the harrisons and the people there are very friendly. in anyone happens to be going through indianapolis, do stop. it's a wonderful home. >> i think they will appreciate the endorsement and they certainly were very helpful to us in allowing us to record so much video for you to see

tonight. by the way, when we talked about the white house diaries, every week on our first ladies website, all of the video from the shows we've done so far are contained there and also special video you haven't seen during this program. but there's always one special future -- feature for each first lady and tonight it is the entirety of caroline harrison's white house diaries. if you want to dig into her days, you can read it all there t c-span dwoshfirstladies. -- c-span.com/firstladies. >> let's now go to the white house for the next video.

and you will learn more from the white house curator, about the white house china collection. >> when she came to the white house she was very interested in how the place worked. she came down here. this was the ground floor but it was sort of considered to be the basement because the kitchen was down here, laundry facilities, storage for food and tableware and such and she found that it was rather dirty. sort of ominous. and she tried to like spruce it up. she went through the cabinets and found old pieces of china and then asked servants if they could tell her, does anybody remember how old this piece is? so she started the idea of trying to catalog and create a sense of what chinas were. she had a plan for putting some display cases in the state dining room. but never came to fruition. she was credited with being the initiater of the concept of a

permanent china collection at the white house. she was interested in designing china she wanted it to be american, as our first ladies had discovered there was not a strong enough porcelain manufacturing industry in america in 1891 when she started looking into new china so she decided this would go ahead and let a friend's company make the blanks but she would provide the did he dine -- the design. it wasn't a full service. she didn't try to order 12 or 15 pieces per place setting. it was designed with a shape that was pretty much the lincoln-era shape, that kind of simple -- this is a soup plate and a breakfast plate or tea plate. the eagle was very similar to what was on the lincoln china that represents the great seal of the united states. what she specifically designed was the border. there was a combination of ears of corn and golden rod which she felt represented american plants. the agricultural plants in corn. so there was dinner plates and soup plates and breakfast

plates made in the blue. and there were also breakfast plates and tea plates made with the white border and then a series of cups and saucers. so there weren't all the other shapes that you might have in a state service of bowls and cream soup cups and various other things that went with it. >> so, we credit her today with establishing this very popular spot in the white house. >> yes. and of course table service all through the years is extremely important to the white house, with the state dinners. that is the official dins that are are paid for by the state department. planned about the family more or less. but you know, eight wines were served normally at dinner. it would be reduced to three under theodore roosevelt and poured generously. there was a lot of wine and men guests would sometimes have scotch instead of wine. and then you would have numerous plates, bone dishes, all of these things that -- at each plate, serving about 60

for a state dinner in those days. >> and i just wanted to say that the cups and saucers that were ordered for the harrison china did not arrive at the white house until after caroline's death. which is very sad. she didn't get to see them. and the china was reordered periodically in later administrations so it became a very popular service. ordered again by mckinley and roosevelt and even as late as jacklin kennedy and mrs. clinton. >> in addition to the official design that she did, she was an avid painter of china as a hobby and in fact she gave classes in this at the white house. >> right. >> which may have been a political move. she had -- she was a musician. >> politics in the white house. >> and a former lobbyists. >> she was a musician, painter and was fluent in french. and i think she spoke spanish. did she? >> i know she spoke frenchment

i'm not sure about spanish. >> she had classes. >> she did have language and china painting. >> it smoothed the feggetters of some of the people -- feathers of some of the people. in washington, they kind of silenced themselves about her because they wanted to be part of those classes. they were ladies classes. >> next, a phone call from phil in north hollywood, california. >> hi there. thank you so much for the wonderful series. i'm just wonderfully addicted to all of you. you mentioned baby mcfiat first. i was kind of curious about it because i remember reading something years ago, it was like the first pop culture. now we don't even know about them. but i was wondering if could you elaborate more about your story over there about maybe mckee and how he became such a big sensation throughout america. just kind of curious if you had any more observations about him. >> thank you. we have a photograph of baby mckee, we'll show as we're learning more. >> i think he was just a cute

little kid that they let the ress have access to. >> and in the cleveland administration, you know, they had baby ruth. and the candy bar was named after baby ruth. not after the baseball player, babe ruth. but at any rate, this is the period when photographic studios started taking enormous numbers of pictures of the white house, the furnishings, the occupants and particularly the children. became very, very popular. it was sort of a new pop culture kind of sensation and fixated on babe mckee. >> this is a great picture we're showing right now of a goat cart on the lawn of the white house. with the harrison grandchildren. >> the wicker cart that the children played on the driveway on the south laub -- lawn. south lawn was kept closed since the grant administration for children to play. you see the greenhouses behind them? the whole way it was? and that goat is a special kind of goat. i forget its name but it was

still very prominent goat raises that are raise that kind of goat and they do race them and show them. the harrisons were big animal people. so, they had all kinds of animals. mrs. cleveland had 29 pets but they didn't have that many pets. they had some pets and that little cart became quite famous there. actually is another one. another cart. as well as that one. >> in addition to the china, establishing the china collection, she also bought the first white house christmas tree. >> yes. >> which we now think of as very much a part of the holiday celebration. what was it like in the harrison years? >> i don't know what it was like. she brought the christmas tree in, do you know? >> that's as much as i know and it was decorated. >> and the family quarters. >> yes. >> today it's part of the public display for people coming in. >> and the president dressed up as santa claus and played santa claus with the grandchildren and so forth. >> can we imagine a modern day

president in a santa claus suit? >> now, i can. >> you can? >> i can. >> when i read that i thought, hm, photograph. >> speaking of photographs and the donkey card, i mean, the goat cart, excuse me, caroline i think was very savvy in knowing that people were going to demand photographs of the grandchildren. and the family. so instead of just letting them descend on her she called in a pioneering woman photographer, frances benjamin johnson, and had the children photographed and it gave her and the family much more control over how the photographs were taken and where and when and how these children were pictured in the press. >> that's a good point. >> i think she was very smart about doing that. the which also seems very

modern. >> exactly. and that was one of the things that frances cleveland had -- or did complain about in the second administration. that she was afraid people were going to kidnap the children. they found ways to get into the white house grounds and she was constantly fearful. so i think what caroline did was very smart. >> another thing she did for the white house was to bring electricity into it. and we have a photograph or an illustration rather of what's called the great illumination of the white house in 1891. how important was this to bring electricity into the mansion? >> extremely important. and the harrisons were terrified of it. they wouldn't turn it on or off. when they were ready to go to bed they'd call one of the employees to turn the lights off. >> for four years? >> never got used to it. scared to death of it.

they were used to gas. >> what's interesting is it was installed by the edison company itself. >> yes. >> so was the entire mansion illuminated at that point? or was it just in the public space? >> no, the living rooms were. the bedrooms, they threaded the old gas fixtures, some of them, and hung lightbulbs from the chand leers and that was that way until 199 -- 1892 and there were lots of those big old fillment bubbles hanging around, you know? but it was not lighted like it would be today. it would be heavy candlelight to us but it was really an innovation and considered less dangerous because the gas went off at a certain time at night, about 9:00 or 9:30 at night. if you didn't have all those turned, the gas would come out into the rooms and people weres a fixated all the time. then they would light the coal lights, , kerosene

and so this was something that wasn't as dangerous really. but it seemed dangerous to them. >> they were afraid of getting shocked i think or starting a fire. >> i think they could have been shocked if they did it wrong. >> so prior to this, when presidents burned the midnight oil, they really were. >> the gas was off. >> dan is in big timber, montana. what's your question tonight? >> my question, i heard you mentioned earlier that one of the president's children, i think his son, you said, livehood in helen? >> rulls, yes. >> did they say it in helena? >> i don't know. there's a harrison house there. i think their house still stands. >> oh, wow. i remember justice harrison just passed away a couple of years ago, was on the supreme court for years. i wonder if he was related? >> i don't really know. i know they were devoted to montana. he had ranching interests and also copper interests. and was a very successful man. he was not going to give that

up to go stay in the white house. >> besides the baby mckee and things for which they might have been celebrated, she also received criticism in the press and this came when she centraled a gift from a postmaster general wand maker who was a very successful man, a house in cape may, new jersey. can either of you tell the story of how that blew up in her face and what happened? >> well, people looked at it as if it were a bribe. it was supposed to be a little cottage and i think it had, what, 20 rooms or something? like that? at any rate, it was looked on to bribe from wannamaker .he harrison administration and finally the outcry got so heated that they had to pay wannamaker for it $10,000, which was a lot of money in those days. to make it look like, you know, the president said, well, we were going to buy it anyway.

but it was one of those things that, like, for instance, after the civil war, a list of subscribers got together and gave grant a home and so it was not unheard of. >> no. >> but for some reason the press spun it as if this was possibly a bribe. so they had to end up paying for the house. >> it was a very tumultuous time politically. anything they could jump -- grant got a house practically every year. he had lots of houses. fully furnished. linens and all. but he didn't get in any trouble for it. but this did. but it was a pretty hot time. it was a very tense time between the democrats and the republicans. the motivations were clearly drawn. the republicans were protectionist, the democrats were not. the republicans wanted high tariffs and the democrats did not. and so on.

and harrison was a man who was of conservative nature. in that he wanted the debts paid, he didn't want to allow - a lot of spending, paradoxically because it was a time of very great spending really in his administration, but these were the the tensions of the time. and how cleveland got back in. >> i also read that it was a time of great grief and sadness in washington. no less than 15 deaths during a four-year period of people in the washington circle. people like associate justices on the supreme court. the anywaysy secretary and his family were burn aid live -- the navy secretary and his family were burn aid live in a house. and there were strikes in the east and miner strikes. >> a steel plant, it was a terrible thing, and 20 men were shot dead, of the protesters and the american public, while it seemed justified to the plant and carneigie and rest, it horrified the american public. they just could not believe it. and this chipped away at

harrison, he got a lot of the blame for that. >> did this contribute to the depression that you mentioned earlier? >> the depression, oh, his own depression? i think that went way back. i think it gas back to the civil war when he was a private general and though he was a little man, he was quite a leader and the whole prospect of war was horrifying to him. they'd been married about, what, five years? >> yeah. >> maybe more. >> short time. five years, i think. >> and they both were very gripped by that period. as many people were. >> and he must have witnessed horrible things on the battlefield, i would imagine. >> yes. >> before we leave this part of the lesson, a couple more questions. >> there were a lot of old curtains. furniture. different objects of furniture. not specifically. >> was it the resolute desk brought down? >> the resolute desk, it was just recently.

>> that was something that came in the heys administration. >> ok. >> and it was used in the upstairs hall. she furnished the upstairs hall from the attic. the corridor that runs the full length of the house, on the single floor, was just an old hallway with white wardrobes and things in it and one end of it was a waiting room. mrs. harrison furnished it as a room. and if you went up in the elevator, in the family quarters, you'd find that as a big sitting room and she furnished that a lot from old things she found in the attic. >> and she was trying to make more room for the family. the family quarters had become so crap cramped and overrun by the presidential offices that, you know, she was looking for space anywhere she could find it. so she turned that hallway into a large sort of living area with, you know, defined spaces for seating and conversation. >> did caroline invite any

first ladies back to the white house? >> mrs. hays had died. >> that's the one i know about, harriette lane. >> only harriette lane. so we talked about the fact that she was seen as a domestic partner. but caroline harrison was a great political partner to her husband, benjamin harrison. and next we're going to learn about that more and how it affected his political success in this visit to the harrison home in indianapolis. >> caroline harrison was certainly an active participant in benjamin harrison's political life. i have just stepped out the door as benjamin harrison did many times to address the crowds that came to hear him speak when he was campaigning for the presidency. there were over 300,000 people who came to indianapolis. in fact, the yard became so crowded that they had to move ome of the speeches downtown

to the university park. she was always beside him or just inside the door preparing for guests to come inside the house. preparing to maybe give refreshments to some of the guests. preparing to greet them and shake their hands. caroline was very much devoted to benjamin harrison and the ideals of his campaign. when she planned her inaugural address, she wanted it to be designed in the united states, she wanted the silk to be spun in the united states, she wanted the dress to be designed and made in the united states. because benjamin harrison campaigned, advocated that we become an independent nation. and she was willing to do her part to see that happen. this probably was one of caroline's favorite rooms in the house. she loved to entertain and

many, many different groups came to hear benjamin harrison speak. caroline was his right-hand person. she wasn't always on the stoop with him but she was certainly behind the scenes and eager to invite people in for some hospitality. one group that came was a group that harrison greatly admired and very much encouraged and that was the black community in this area. and when he finished speaking to them, he invited them all to come into his home which they did and they shook hands with benjamin harrison and caroline harrison. as they walked through the house. this is benjamin harrison's favorite room. it's his library. and how interesting that in his place to be, we have caroline harrison's beautiful little desk. i think that in this room, probably benjamin drew a great deal of strength and comfort

from having caroline close by. and maybe she didn't talk to him about what paper he was writing or what bill he was working on, but just looking up from his desk and seeing his carrie was an encouragement to him. he knew that she was there if he needed her, he knew that she loved him and i think that caroline was the kind of wife hat empowered her husband. >> so, we learned that she was very much instrumental in hosting these events that would bring the crowds and campaigned for public office essentially by staying home. >> there were two new ways of -- two different campaign techniques that came in at the end of the 19th century. the front porch campaign was one and the whistle stop was the other and they were sort of that opposite ends of the spectrum. the whistle stop, you know, you got on a train and went all

around the country. this way you stayed home on the front porch campaign and greeted the neighbors and anybody who came in by train. so, this brought the wife of the candidate right into the forefront of the campaigning, thout violating the norms of a woman's place in the home. so it was perfect for her as far as the type of campaign technique. >> did caroline like campaigning or did she have safety concerns for her husband? we'd already lost two presidents as a nation. was there an increase in security for presidential candidates at this time? >> i don't think so. >> maybe the local sheriff. but even president truman had no -- when he left office, had no protection. but one thing i'd like to add to what edie said is that it was considered inappropriate for a man to campaign for himself, to get out and make the speeches for himself.

>> very different from today. >> very different from today. and the sitting on the front porch was another way of sitting in your stage. >> you're being called to the office. you're not going out and -- it's not self-promotion. they're coming to call you to be their president. >> and these are regular carve that'll values. they -- carve values. they sell postcards. >> and this will be repeated when you get to mckinley because he was very faymougs. and we'd just sit on the porch on rocking chairs and people would come by the thousands to look at them. >> jordan in pennsylvania. good evening and welcome to the conversation. >> hi. i'm a big fan of your guys' and i know all about the presidents. i know their age and stuff. my question is, was caroline harrison older than her husband? >> yes. >> a year older. >> i was going to ask if jordan knew the answer. one year older. while we're talking about her

husband, here are some of the important things that happened politically and policywise during the harrison presidency. first of all, there were a number of states that were added to the union. north dakota, south dakota, montana and washington. and in the year later, in 1890, idaho and wyoming were added as part of the united states. also, the batful of wounded knee occurred during the harrison administration. and the sherman antitrust act and the sherman silver purchase act. so two raging debates in this country were about silver, silver policy, and also the whole tariff concept which we saw that the president greatly supported. what happened to the economy result of this? >> the economy basically the silver act led the economy into a depression. harrison lost in the election of 1892 and he was lucky because the economy crashed in

the autumn of 1893. president cleveland returned to office. and mrs. harrison by that time had died. >> on twitter it was asked whether or not caroline provided any political guidance or was her place beside her husband like frances was with griever? the answer would be yes. she was much more atuned to politics. glch, much more. i wouldn't say frances was at all. excepter to pretty and funny. this woman was very salvey of what he was doing and very interested in the position of women. she was not an activist in the street like the suffrageth ettes would be who wanted the vote later on. but she believed that the power of women was very, very great. which it was. and she believed in women getting out there and getting involved. >> and speaking of her influence, not just on her husband but also to affect change in society, here's another item from her diary. the first lady wrote, my mail,

consisting of requests to use my influence for some office. >> they all have that. >> i think that was -- a part of being first lady probably since dolly madson's time. ms. f.d.r. had just cards and cards of letters, people wanted to get someone out of jail or kept from hanging or whatever. duncan.is a call from >> my last name is -- [inaudible] and there was a wealthy family in ohio at the rn of the century last named rhinehart. did the harrisons have any experience with that family, by chance? >> i have no idea. >> we wouldn't be able to know that kind of detail. hope you can find -- >> which wish i did, yeah. >> maybe someone in your own

state could answer that. >> laura in michigan. >> hi, how are you? i'm so excited, i can't believe you're talking about the harrisons. i've lived here for about 30 years. i've had an inaugural invitation to the inaugural ball in 1889. of benjamin harrison. and i wonder if could you tell me anything about that inaugural ball. >> you don't need to write a regret anymore. but that's fascinating. the inaugural ball. it was a ferociously rainy time. >> and it was in the pension building, i believe. >> all decorated inside. >> yeah. and marine band played. the harrisons -- and they danced. they had not done so in a while. and the dancing custom was brought back to the white house where it had been missing since harriette lane. and the marine band would play and people would dance and that was a spinoff of the inaugural.

it was a very -- it was in rain storm but it was very glamorous and happy event. >> you're lucky to have that artifact. that's nice. >> more than halfway through our program and time to look back at an earlier question about this. about the couple's early life. they were both attendees of miami of ohio in oxford, ohio. tell us more about how they met. she was a native. he came from somewhere else? >> i think he was from cincinnati maybe. >> from ohio, yeah. >> he was definitely from ohio. and they met there in college. he i think was taking a course from her father. in mathematics. and then he began to visit the harrison home under the pretense of, you know, creating a relationship with his professor but in actuality because he wanted to see more of caroline. >> after they married they

moved to indianapolis. >> yes, where they were to stay the rest of their lives except for washington. >> were the politics in indianapolis or indiana at the time easier to get into? what's the motivation at that took them to the state? >> it's a smaller place. they were from prominent families. dr. scott was a prominent educator, as you've said, and very well known. and harrison quickly rose, really, he went to the civil war, and after the civil war his law practice flourished and business law and divorce. indianapolis was the reno of the day. and lots of people went there to get a divorce and he was the best divorce lawyer in town. and his fortune increased. he made quite a bit of money as a lawyer. >> indianapolis is the reno of its day. all you hoosiers out there, a little bit of your history. >> you don't have to leave home. >> so his civil war service, he had children by the time that the civil war had started and it was a big decision in the

family as to whether or not he would serve. what did she do during the civil war? >> she worked with several women's patriotic associations. she visited hospitals, attended ounded soldiers, you know, helped with the women's loyal league and that kind of -- union, what do i want to say, patriotic organizations, the women's sanitary commissions which were helping with -- nurse wounded soldiers. so, you know, the women's side of the war issue. >> which gave her experience in organizing for causes? can was that fair to say? >> i think she was just psychologically set for that because of her upbringing. that's what her family believed in. i'm sure her father as a widower living with them in the white house encouraged everything she did in that

direction. >> and contributing that to the community i think was part of their ethical background. >> they were deeply religious people. law career lead him into politics? >> the way a law career does. there he was and he was thought well of. and simply decided, persuaded to run for office and did. he just drifted into it. >> and then he became the secretary of the republican state committee. so through that he began to make all these contacts in the state. >> and campaigned -- >> and campaigned for other republicans which then stood him in good steady in his own write as far as a candidate or possible candidate. >> and was elected to the united states senate. he first tried for governor and was unsuccessful in that bid. >> yes. >> and then was successful in his bid for the united states senate. we have another video. we're going to return to the harrison home and learn more

about caroline's interests and causes. >> this is the part of the master bedroom suite. this is just a beautiful room, a room where we love to think of caroline. this would be the sitting room where caroline might have entertained her friends. for instance, she belonged to a number of literary clubs. perhaps they came and met here and talked about the authors that they liked. caroline particularly liked dickens and especially liked shakespeare so that might have been going on in this room. i think, too, that of course this might have been the room that inspired some of her art because it has a beautiful view out the window onto the yard. where her gardens were and where her flowers group -- grew. there's a wonderful easel which is a display easel. so when she finished a picture she might put it on that easel for her friends to admire when they came up for tea.

there's a beautiful fan that was given to her by ulysses grant's daughter-in-law. and she thought it was so beautiful that she put it in a frame so that nobody could hurt it. she also would have probably done some piecework in here. she loved to do embroidery. and i think she -- and beading. that was very popular. and so i think this would have been a room that she worked in. as well as entertained and -- entertained in. she did many community things. for instance, she was involved in the orphans' asylum. she served or their board she went to the orphan's asylum at least once a week she often made clothes or took clothes to them. she did cooking and took the cooking to the orphan asylum. she cared very much about these little children and making sure that their lives were better than they might have been. so that was one of her causes.

she also played the piano, of course, for her church. and every single sunday. so that was a talent that she put to use for other people. i think caroline had confidence but i also think she had purpose. and so she was always looking for an opportunity to use her skills, to help her fellow man. and to serve her community. >> really an interesting line, that she had purpose. and we're going to talk about how she used some of that purpose when she came to the white house. but first a couple of other questions. was it common for first ladies to go to school, let alone hold a college degree like mrs. harrison? >> that was something that was relatively new. mrs. hays was the first college graduate amongst first ladies. frances cleveland i think also graduated from college and i think grover waited to pop the question while sending flowers

to her the whole time she was there. and then caroline harrison also had a college degree. so it was something that was coming into vogue for women in the later part of the century. >> they were all well educated. whether it was home education of course was the commonest of all that people had, but some of these girls as young girls went to the female academies sponsored by the churches like the baptists and methodists and they'd live there and they'd learn language, they'd learn whatever they learned there. classics and. so they were -- some of them -- college was later idea with women. >> but very well read, all of them. >> well read, yes. >> mrs. harrison was so progressive on women's issues, what about her views on race? was she influenced at all by the abolitionist movement in her early adult years? >> oh, yes. >> very much so. >> very much so. and his whole administration

fought for the african-american vote everywhere. now, of course, remember now, that would be african-american men to vote, not women. but it was for the african-american vote, he was very vocal about it. >> next is dan in omaha. hi, dan. >> hi. when you showed the office there at his personal home there, i think i saw a picture of the ninth president, the grandfather of -- >> william henry. >> yeah. did william harrison, did he earn this property himself? >> wait a minute -- >> did henry harrison own that property? >> where the house is? no, he lived in ohio. his home is in ohio and it's open to the public as well. william henry harrison's another matter. he died after 30 years in the -- 30 days in the white house. and harrison saw him as a

little boy of maybe 9 years old in his coffin. that's the only time he saw him. they weren't from a very distinguished family in virginia. they lived at berkley plantation on the james river. president harrison and benjamin harrison was the son except for the bushes, would be the only son of a -- because that was his grandfather, not his father , that was president -- grandfather and son. but the grandfather's father signed the declaration of independence. as one of the virginia signers. and berkley, you can see on the james river, open to the public, and they were distinguished virginia family and in politics for years and years and when william henry harrison went to be inaugurated, he went to berkley where he been born. i don't know whether benjamin harrison ever went but he was very conscious of being the grandson of a founder.

i mean the great-grandson of a founder and the grandson of a president. >> just >> so there have been two father-son combinations, adams and the bushes, and this is the only grandfather-grandson pair. and the campaign, benjamin hairson's campaign was all about little tippecanoe. > you saw the log cabin in there. > that was his grandfather's cabin. and they said he sits his grandfather's hat, so there were a lot of hats as campaign device. >> did caroline's interest in the presidency fuel her desire for her to be d.a.r. president or