i mean the great-grandson of a founder and the grandson of a president. >> just >> so there have been two father-son combinations, adams and the bushes, and this is the only grandfather-grandson pair. and the campaign, benjamin hairson's campaign was all about little tippecanoe. > you saw the log cabin in there. > that was his grandfather's cabin. and they said he sits his grandfather's hat, so there were a lot of hats as campaign device. >> did caroline's interest in the presidency fuel her desire for her to be d.a.r. president or vice versa? to apps that question, it's

interesting that she took on the role as the president general of the d.a.r. -- >> there's a story there. >> i thought there would be. >> the d.a.r. is always misunderstood. the d.a.r. was founded by working women who were supporting themselves, their children, perhaps, whatever, there were four major ones and many others, it was founded in the fall of 1890 and some -- for some way, caroline hairson became involved, probably because of all the 1789 centennial, centennial of president washington's inauguration. so they persuaded her to be first president and she made the first recorded address made by a first lady to their convention. the d.a.r. had a lot to do with working women who were in the field and not being treated like ladies -- >> particularly in the government agencies in washington. >> yes.

they showed descent from the revolution, i'm just as good as you are but mrs. hairson saw political promise in it and she taught the d.a.r. to be political, they never intended that. they met in the blue room at their first meeting and she told them how to do it. >> but it was a working job, it was busying required a lot of energy on her part. >> i think it did. she had a lot of support from the founders. >> could we imagine a first daily take -- lady taking on a role like this? >> i could. >> it would depend on how overtly political people would think it was. but i could certainly imagine somebody doing something like that today. > to clarify -- james asked, did caroline start the d.a.r.? the answer is no. but she agreed to run it and brought it -- >> visibility, legitimacy a

place to meet. helped sort of smooth over the political differences within the group, you know, people wanting different offices and so forth. so by taking the president general position, she sort of quelled a lot of that, you know, i want the position, i want the position. >> what was happening overall with the women's movement? women still don't have the right to vote in this country. >> they do not have the right to vote. the suffrage movement was finally coming together in 1890 after having been split since the end of the civil war. one group wanted to go the constitutional route, the other group wanted to have it done state by state. in other words, a states' rights approach. and they fought each other for a generation and finally in 1890, they had a meeting in washington in 1888 and decided to unify the suffrage movement so that was

going on at the national level, as i mentioned before, the home economics movement began in 1890, the club movement had progressed from local and state groups to national groups in 1890, you have the white club the black clubs, the jewish women's clubs, and they all get started in the early 1990's. the women are really beginning to organize and lobby very loudly for women's progress. >> harold in connecticut. your question? >> thank you very much for this wonderful series. i was just wondering, if your guests know anything, you were discussing the china services at the white house. do you know anything about the silver collections? and how both the hollow ware and flat ware were being developed at the white house, and lastly,

when did lennox china begin its first production for the white house, if you know? thank you so much and thank you for a great series. >> i can answer the question about the lennox china, that was the wilson administration. up until that time, there had been no ceramic manufacturer that could equal the quality of european ceramics and so almost all of the 19th century and even some of the early 20th century china ware that was ordered for the white house was from france, except for that of theodore and edith roosevelt and they used wedgewood. but it wasn't until the wilson administration that lennox was producing the kind of se rack imware they felt was proper for the white house and that was the first order from lennox. >> on the silver front, it's a

strange story. silver, big orders of silver, such as the white house, in the -- as early as james monroes, came in trunks with trays and you had little depressions in there where a knife would fit exactly here so if you had a dozen knives, they'd be in a fan or line. these trays would come out. when it was all washed after dinner, you could look at the trays and if there wasn't a hole, a vacant place, it was all there. it lasted all those years through the 19th century and there were increases but they had all the trunks. mrs. william howard taft went on one of those -- lesser tour than mrs. hairson, but a tour we were talking about, and she saw those dirty old trunks as she said and she had the silver taken out and put in drawers like anyone does at home today and had the trunks thrown away and the silver was decimated. it began to go out with the garbage. a lot of it remain bus you began

to lose it, if you can't count it. >> that is painful. >> it's like the decayed furnishings sales at the white house, all these things thought to be out of date were sold at auction. they had huge auctions and all of this marvelous stuff my grated out of the white house. >> sam is washing us in cherry hill, new jersey. you're on, sam. >> hello, there. i had a question about mrs. harrison's ill health. let me begin by saying i am a huge caroline harrison fan, i've been following her for years but did her ill health have any effect on the amount of work she was able to do in her husband's administration? do you think it prevented her taking on more work in the administration? she was a beautiful woman and could have had a lot of

influence. > she had tuberculosis and stayed bus di-- busy -- tuberculosis and depression, really. but finally she couldn't fight it anymore, it was really the only -- only the last two months of her life that were bad, everything happened to her in october, she was born in october, died in october, the d.a.r. was founded in october. >> before we leave her influences, there's a story about her support for johns hopkins that you need to tell. >> ok. well, the back story is that johns hopkins had built a hospital and was going to build medical school with graduate education and they built the hospital but they ran out of money for the medical school. and so a young woman whose name was mary elizabeth gear rhett, who was the daughter of the owner of the baltimore and ohio

railroad, had a group of women, all of whom had their fathers on the board at johns hopkins university, and so they would meet regularly in a group they called the friday. not the friday club, the friday. and they referred to themselves in their memos and stuff as girls. the girls desaied to take on this project. mary elizabeth garrett had been her father's sort of right hand person. she'd traveled with him, watched him make, as donald trump would say, the art of the deal. and so she was very aware that this was the time that they should tell johns hopkins that they would raise the money that was needed for this medical school, if the medical school would admit women on the same equal basis as men. well, it took the men on the board a little aback and took

them a while to sort of come around to the idea but there were all these incredible women that she had contact with and i will read you some of their names, they were mrs. leland stanford, -- >> stanford university -- >> of stanford university. and mrs. potter palmer, whose husband built the palmer house in chicago. julia ward howe. elizabeth blackwell, the first female doctor in the country. luisa katherine adams who i think was a granddaughter of the first luisa katherine, the first lady. ann carrie thomas, head of bryn mawr. these women decided this would be their mission, they were going to raise $100,000 to help johns hopkins put up this medical school and the men acquiesced and the women divided

the country into 15 geographical regions and invited caroline hairson to be the person in charge of washington, d.c. -- -- caroline harrison to be the person in charge of washington, d.c. she had several receptions in the white house and of course this was wonderful publicity and legitimacy for this group of women and their mission to get women into the medical school and she also went to baltimore several times. and was the guest of honor at the reception that mary elizabeth fware rhett held. it was a very successful kind of lob being, if you will, and the women came through and raised the money. >> and caroline harrison used the -- used the white house to advance the causes she was interested in. >> absolutely. >> on our next video we'll learn more about that as we once again visit the harrison home in indianapolis. >> caroline harrison was one of the first first ladies to have

her own ideas to renovate the white house. we have fabrics here, this one was used in the east room and there are just lots of different fabrics here, little swatches, nice velvets in different colors and we have you know, the pale greens used in her bedroom, i believe, you have gold an green here, just all the different fab ribs that were used when she was redecorating the white house as well. you can see the different shades. and we have a little book that frances johnson was the photographer in the white house at the time and she took a lot of photographs than little book is a compiling of those but it also has a description of the rooms and the colors that were used by mrs. harrison along with the photographs of the rooms once they were decorated. and then we have just lots of things that they saved from those state dinners and things like the ribbons here, bows, it

actually has the white house image on there and the date of the event. this is mrs. harrison, january 19, 1892. and different colors, different ribbons they would use, this is from a february dinner in 1892, it's been untied but we have the white house image at one end, the date at the other end. we have place cards in our collection as well. the card with the eagle, mrs. harrison, january 20, 1891. we have another one for mrs. mckee, the daughter, so we have executive mansion on the one side and the event, may 29, 1891, on the other. one more here for the president, for the january 20, 1891 event, as well. and then also just below this section, a lot of the ribbons, again, nice red, white, and blue, these were all for the

same event but different colors, we have the eagle on one end and the date, april 23, 1890 on the other in there for them as well. >> they entertained and some of the historic preservation of the events in the white house, interesting to see. become to telephone calls, marge is watching us in charleston, south carolina. >> hello, what a wonderful program, i am so thrilled. my question may be a little premature but as the prime historian of the first ladies, can you, in your opinion, tell us which may have been the most despised? which may have been the most loved? and my second question is, is it true nancy reagan bribed the designers to give her her tresses for free? >> wow. well the most despised --

>> was there one? >> i don't know that i would use that term. there were people who greatly disliked eleanor roosevelt. >> but i don't think they the spiesed her. >> i don't think they despised her. enge they respected her even though -- >> some didn't like mary lincoln. they loved to hate. >> i think mary lincoln also was very much hated and that had to do with the civil war, i think, as much as neg. >> most loved? >> probably dolly madison is who i would choose, or jacqueline kennedy in the modern time. >> mamie eisenhower. >> she was very well loved. and what was the last part of her question? >> oh -- >> the dresses for nancy reagan. >> oh, nancy reagan did receive dresses for free from -- as a form of advertising for the different designers who gave them to her.

>> was -- would people have designed dresses and given them to the first ladies or would they have purchased them? >> i think after nancy reagan -- >> i mean in the tais we're in right now, 1890's and -- people becoming interested in fashion, were they supporting american -- >> i don't think so. >> they did it in europe. the designers, the same way movie stars are today, in europe, the nobility and people like that wore clothes, that's how worth in paris got its name. >> but i'm not familiar with anything that went on like this, in this particular period, maybe we didn't know. >> sharon in sacramento. > hello. >> hi, sharon, we're listening. >> you talked a little while ago about the father-sons who have been president. i'm wondering about benjamin's father, what did he do? was he in poll techs? did it skip a generation? and did he live to see benjamin

become president? >> that's one for bill. >> that's one that bill doesn't know. he was in politics. >> he was. >> i think a congressman. >> yeah, he was. but whether he had died before harrison went to office, i don't know. >> i don't know that either. >> so the question is yes, his father was in poll techs, though he didn't make it to the level of his own father or his son but we don't know the answer, sorry, about whether or not he was there for the inauguration of his son. next up, marie in lovejoy, georgia. hi, marie. >> hi. i love this show and your guests, my question is, what was the salary of the president, from washington to harrison, compared to today? >> $25,000 a year had been the salary, it went up to $75,000 or grant and it stayed there forever and ever. >> that was good money in those

days. >> it was. and what they usually would do is they would spend it because they had to in the first term and pay their debt, second term they'd try to -- try to squirrel it away for retirement. lincoln was toning that. jefferson did it, of course he was no businessman. but then for every term, you have $20,000 you didn't have to account for. and that finally got up to $50,000 and more. and the first person that -- the president they made account for it was president truman in just a mean-spirited act from congress. they made him account for every penny of that but normally it was something realizing there were extra expenses they had to do. >> next is gail in palm coast, florida. hi, actually. >> i was wondering, since jacqueline kennedy, first ladies have been foremost in our country with hairstyles and fashion, was caroline harrison the same way? she was such a beautiful lady.

>> i don't think so. >> i don't think so. enge it was frances cleveland and certainly not caroline at that point in her life. >> ms. cleveland was into style. people would borrow her name, soaps and things would borrow her name without permission, it infuriated the president. >> and put her image on every kind of conceivable chotch key ybody wanted to -- wanted to sell. grover was so angered by that he tried to get a bill through congress to stop it. talking about from jacqueline kennedy on, actually, mailei eisenhower was the one who, i think, in modern times started the whole thing with fashion. remember her mamie bangs and the fact that she would buy fashionable clothes and she was approached by designers to wear their clothing and their hats and was on the best dressed list for many years in the white house. >> 1892, benjamin harrison is a

candidate for re-election. the economy is in tough shape and he is once again in a rematch with former president cleveland, and caroline harrison becomes more and more ill. can you tell the story of her death? >> she just declined and declined. he could have been re-elected but he was so devastated -- >> did he not send her to the adirondacks to recover? >> he did. and they tried to get her to go to montana to recover. >> the whole family went to the adron dikes with her. >> she died in the white house in 1892. >> the second of the only two first ladies to die in the white house. was the first.

>> was there a big state funeral, one of our viewers want to know. >> it was in the east room but it was not a state funeral. >> the people you have to invite were there, but it was in the east room, there's a photograph of her coffin covered in roses, pink roses. she died and he was -- had he worked harder he could have won in that campaign because what he was saying was flavored with reform and what grover cleveland was doing was bringing back the past. and it didn't happen. i mean, cleveland won. >> the other thing that i think is very notable about that is that neither of them, out of respect for caroline and her health and then subsequently her death, actually did much campaigning. >> he didn't make speeches. >> nor did cleveland. >> cleveland never did make campaign speeches. >> it would be interesting to see what would happen today if there was a great death if we would abstain from campaigning

as they did back then. so what happened to the official white house in the days after her death? did someone else step in to act as first lady? >> i think lady mckee did. >> the mother of baby mckee. benjamin harrison went on to remarry. can you tell us about that? >> he remarried care loin's niece who had been her social secretary and also an aide to him as the president. and she had lost both of her parents when she was very young so they brought her into the family, sort of as, you know, another daughter, into the family. and she looked at both of them, i think, for most of the time as parents, you know, substitute parents. whether -- >> elizabeth wasn't still living

-- >> her mother had died in the white house. caroline's sister. >> the nice was a widow. >> she was a widow. and without paraphernalias. so they, you know, brought her into the family. >> so benjamin harrison after the death of his wife said, for me, there is no staying and losing the election. after the heavy blow, the death of my wife dealt me, i do not think i could have stod the strain a re-election would have brought. how many years the defeat did he remarry? >> four. four or five. >> they married in 1896. there was a great suffle about it. it was considered the wrong thing to do by a lot of the public. >> certainly by the children. they were furious. >> she had been there with them almost like a sister and it was very shocking to them. and they had a child. >> holly hunt asked, having read that benjamin harrison remarried

after caroline died to her nice, wants to know, was there evidence of them having an affair while caroline was still alive? >> no. oh, no. >> it's interesting, one of the articles i read talks about emorandums written by george cordelio, mckinley's and then later theodore roosevelt's chief of staff, in which he says he had a conversation with robert mckee, the father of baby mckee, who lived in the white house the entire time and the story was that mckee told george that caroline was so distressed because she thought she was losing him to the younger niece, that she was going to move out of the white house. and that he personally talked her out of it because of the scandal that would come down on the family and the presidency. i don't know whether -- who

knows but that was -- >> he worked for harrison, george did. >> you're skeptical? >> and the people at the harrison home are very skeptical as well. >> as edie said she was like a child to them. but then they he married her, they had a baby, a little girl. the public will always give its opinion. >> lewis is watching us in los angeles and has a question. >> yes, i do. i'm enjoying this series and keep it up. i have two questions. you said that you had a recorded caroline the first lady was the first first laity to have her voice recorded and do we have one of the president? my second question is, what was the president, president

harrison's views on civil rights at the time? thank you. >> i don't know where that recorded is, i assume the duferse the american revolution have it in their ex-tense i library in washington but the harrisons were both committed to civil rights. i said earlier, he fought his whole time different ways and -- he had a very legalistic mind, of course, and looked for ways of sharing the vote to the african-american male, of course, remember it wouldn't have been -- white women weren't voting either but they were very committed to it and very public about it. >> and they were saying that one of the favorite people -- groups of people that visited the front porch during the campaign were african-american groups. >> krista -- crystal in terra haute, indiana, your question about benjamin harrison or his wife. >> this question is about mrs. harrison and it's on the line of the civil rights question.

i know mrs. lincoln had an african-american that was a friend of hers, i thought i read she was a confidant of mrs. lincoln. i know mrs. harrison had several helpers and servants at the white house, but did she have a special relationship with any of her african-american helpers or servants? and what was her relationship to them? >> i don't know. >> there were always african-americans except one brief period in 1859-1860, the butlers and people like that sort of ran things and she perhaps had a maid or somebody that -- but i don't know. >> i don't know whether there was a personal friendship of any kind. >> here -- here is the not quite four years of her tenure of caroline harrison and what she's known for.

>> so where does she fit in the pantheon of first laities? >> unfortunately, obscurely. >> yes. >> why unfortunately? >> she did more than most. and the seeds of what she did -- >> they've come to fruition. certainly her vision of the historic nature of the white house and the fact that it should be reflecting the united states as this up and coming power in the world, i think were motivating factors in trying to get the white house renovated and reconstructed and her grand vision for what the white house

could become and i think she so is probably the first who correctly understood that the white house was the historic repository of the american people and of the presidency and she -- i think the white house china collection was one of the things she did, the fact that she used antiques that she kind of resurrected from the attic and the basement, so i think she, you know, she was a predecessor for people like mrs. coolidge and mrs. hoover who tried to do inventories of the white house she kid the first -- she did the first inventory i'm awear of. and her vision of the historic nature of the white house and its collections and her campaigns for the betterment of women were very important but not picked up on in her own

time. >> here's one from facebook, what modern day first laity ould caroline compare most to? >> dare i say rosalind carter who was a quiet first lady but was very busy trying to do worthy things? i guess, you know, -- >> betty ford and her -- >> less public -- betty ford was awfully public -- not awfully but public. ms. carter wasn't. >> she was a much quieter, more behind the scenes kind of person but i also -- i want to say jacqueline kennedy in the sense of her sense of the white house and historic preservation and why that's important to the presidency. >> we began 90 minutes ago with the thesis that caroline harrison was one of the more underrated first lady.

we hope we have demonstrated some of the ways she perhaps should be better known than she is. i want to say thanks to our guests for being here for the help they've supplied in the series. next week, ida mckinley will be the final first lady in our first season of first laities, taking us into the new century and we look forward to seeing you then. >> thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013]

>> "first ladies. influence and image" continues next monday, when we focus on ida mckinley who appeared regularly at front porch rallies in 1896. she was the third first laity to lose her husband to an assassin. next monday in the final program of season one of "first ladies: influence and image." you can windchill or listen on c-span, c-span3, c-span radio and online at -span.org/firstladies. our website has more about the first laities, including a

special section, welcome to the white house, produced by our partner, the white house historical association, which chronicles live in the executive mansion in the tenure of each of the first ladies. with the association we're offering a special etchoifings book "first ladies of the united states of america" with a biography and portrait of each first lady and thoughts from michelle obama on the role of first ladies, now available for the disdowned price of $12.95 plus shipping at c-span.org/products. >> c-span, created by america's cable companies in 1979, bought to you as a public service by your television provider. >> in a few moments, president obama speaks at the white house conference on mental illness. in about 20 minutes a georgetown university forum on the president's second term.

then we reair our first laities influence and image program on caroline harrison. president obama opened the white house conference on mental health on monday saying the goal is to bring the conversation on mental health out of the shadows. this is 20 minutes. >> good morning and welcome. i feel deeply honored to be here with you today to openly discuss the very important top exof ental health in america today. mental health disorders affect tens of millions of people throughout our country each year. due to unnecessary stigma, only

a small handful will receive treatment, and instead suffer in silence. those who do receive treatment will be left to face feelings of shame, guilt, and secrecy. i understand these challenges all too well. i connect with this topic deeply because i've been there i was 15 on august 5 of 1999 when suicide took my brother's life at the young age of 20. in the acre of grass next to our childhood home where he used to laugh and play together. eight years later, at the age of 23 i was diagnosed with major depressive disorder. after suffering for years in silence. as i begun to heal, however, i had this overwhelming urge to share my story with others and i have been able to do that for the past three years through active minds, a national

nonprofit organization that empowers students to openly discuss mental health issues on campuses nationwide. the tens of millions of people who are suffering, they're our friends, our family members, our neighbors and colleagues, and it's time we pull together to put an end to the suffering and to the silence. and now it is my pleasure and honor to introduce to you the president of the united states, president barack obama. [applause] >> thaun, everybody. thank you so much. everybody please have a seat. thank you so much. welcome to the white house and thank you janelle, for that

introduction and sharing your story and making such a difference through your organization. we're really proud to have you here. i want to thank secretary sebelius, secretary arne duncan, secretary shinseki in organizing this event and i want to acknowledge some outstanding members of congress who are here and who care deeply about this issue. fenally, i want to thank all of you for participating in this national conference on mental health. we want to bring together folks who suffered from mental illness and families who supported them, we wanted to bring together advocates and educators, faith leaders, veterans, local officials, all of you have shown an extraordinary commitment to what is a critical goal and that is to make sure that people aren't cuffering in silence and

that we have the passity to pull together all the resources and support and love that's out there. to go after an extraordinary challenge in our society. the main goal of this conference is not to start a conversation, so many of you have spent decades waging long and lonely battles to be heard. enstead it's about elevating that conversation to a national level. and bringing mental illness out of the shadows. we want to let people living with mental health challenges know that they are not alone and we've got to be making sure that we're committed to support those fellow americans. because struggling with a mental illness or carry -- or caring for someone who does can be isolating. i think everybody here who has experienced this tissue the issue in one way or another understands that.

you know, it -- it begins to feel as if not only are you alone, but that you shouldn't burden others with the challenge. and the darkness, day in, day out, what some call a cloud that you can't seem to escape, begins to close in. the truth is, in any given year, one in five adults experience mental illness. one in five. 45 million americans suffer from things like depression or anxiety. schizophrenia or ptsd. young people are affected at a similar rate. so we all know somebody, a family member, a friend, a neighbor who has struggled or will struggle with mental health issues at some point in their lives. official and i have both known people who battled severe

depression over the years, people we love, and oftentimes those who seek treatment go on to lead happy, healthy, productive lives, so we know recovery is possible. we know help is available. yet as a society we often think about mental health differently than other forms of health. you see commercials on tv about a whole array of physical health issues, some of them very personal. [laughter] and yet we whisper about mental health issues. and avoid asking too many questions. the brain is a body part too. we just know less about it. there should be no shame in discussing or seeking help for treatable illnesses that affect too many people that we love. we've got to get rid of that embarrassment, that stigma. too many people who struggle with mental health illnesses are

still suffering in silence rather than seeking health. we need to see that men and women who would never hesitate to go see a doctor if they had a broken arm or came down with the flu, that they have that same attitude when it comes to their mental health. we've seen veterans who come home from the battlefield with the invisible wounds of war but who feel somehow that seeking treatment is a sign of weakness, when in fact it's a sign of strength. we see it in parents who would do anything for their kids, but who often fight their mental health battle alone, afraid that reaching out would somehow reflect badly on them. we see it in the tragedies we have the power to prevent. i want to be absolutely clear, the overwhelming majority of people who suffer from mental illnesses are not violent. they will never pose a threat to themselveses or others, and there are a whole lot of violent

people with no diagnoseable mental health issue. we also know most suicides each year involve someone with a mental health or substance abuse disorder and in some cases when a condition goes untreated it can lead to tragedy on a larger scale. bewe can do something about stories like these. in many cases, treatment is available and effective. we can help people who suffer from a mental illness continue to be great colleagues, great friends, you know, the people we love. we can take out some pain. d give them a new sense of hope. but it requires all of us to act. and there are a few ways we can do our part. first, we've got to do a better job recognizes mental health issues in our children and tissue to make it ease wrer for americans of all ages to seebling help.

today, less than 40% of people with mental illness receive treatment. let's than 40%. even though three quarters of mental illnesses emerge by the age of 24, only about half of children with mental health problems receive treatment. think about it, we wouldn't accept it if only 40% of americans with cancer got treatment. we wouldn't accept it if only half of young people with diabetes got help. why should we accept it when it comes to mental health? doesn't make any sense. the good news is, there are plenty of groups that are stepping up to change that. so a former colleague of mine, fwor don smith, former republican senator who lost his son to suicide 10 years ago, and i remember him speaking so eloquently about it, gordon is now the head of the national association of broadcasters and

today, the national association of broadcasters is announcing a new campaign designed to change attitudes about mental illness through tv ads and social media because fwor don doesn't want other paraphernalias to go through the agonizing loss that he's entoured. so we thank you, fwor don, for that great work. [applause] we have secondary school principals holding assemblies on mental health. organizations like the ymca are volunteering to train staff to recognize the signs of depression and other mental illnesses in our young people. we have leaders from different faith communities who are getting their congregation involved. and dozens of other organizations have today made similar commitments, so we're very trankful to all of you.

-- very thankful to all of you. others are lead big example, my great friend patrick kennedy when he was running for re-election in 2006 could have avoided talking about his struggles with bipolar disorder and addiction. let's face it, he's a kennedy. you know. loved him.verybody and yet patrick used his experience as a way to connect. and to lift up these issues, not hide from them. and one day a woman came up to patrick at a senior center and told him she was afraid to tell her friends she was taking medication for a mental illness because she was worried they might treat her differently. she told patrick, you're the only one who knows aside from my

son. and so patrick started realizing how much power there could be for people to speak out on these issues and patrick carried these stories back with him to washington where he worked with a bipartisan group of lawmakers, including his dad, to make sure the mental health services you get through your insurance plan at work are covered the same way that physical health services have. -- health services are. [applause] so because of patrick's efforts and other colleagues who worked with him, it's ease wrer for millions of people to join him on the road to recovery. which min brings me to a second point. it's not enough to help more americans seek treatment, we have to make sure the treatment is there when they're ready to seek it. for years now, our mental health

system has strug told serve people who depend on it. that's why under the affordable care act, we're expanding mental health and substance abuse benefits for more than 60 million americans. new health insurance. [applause] new health insurance plans are required to cover things like depression screenings for adults and behavior assessments for children and beginning next year, insurance companies will no longer be able to deny anybody coverage because of a pre-existing mental health condition. we're also investing in science and basic research to make it ease wrer to diagnose and treat disease early and earlier this year, i anouned an ambitious initiative to develop tools for mapping the human brain which could help

scientists and researchers unlock the anns to conditions that affect mental health. we're also doing more to support our troops. our veterans. who are suffering from things like traumatic brain diso-- traumatic brain injury or ptsd, post-traumatic stress disorder. today we louvre 22 veterans a day to suicide. 22. we've got to to a better job han that of preventing these all too often silent tragedies. that's why we poured an enormous am of resources into high quality care and better treatment for our troops. today, under rick shin sec key's leadership, the -- sin se key's lead -- shinseki's leadership, they're reducing wait times for veterans seeking mental health

care. they've met their goal of hiring 1,600 new health care providers which mean this is summer they'll hold more than 150 summits like this one in communities across the country so every one of our service members and veterans understand, just like you take care of yourselves and each other on the battlefield, you got to do the same thing off the battlefield. it's part of being strong. for many people who suffer from mental illness, recovery can be challenging. but what helps more than anything, what gives so many of our friends an loved ones strength, is the knowledge that you're not alone. you're not alone. you're surrounded by people who care about you and who will support you on the journey to get well. we're here for you. that's what this conference is about. that's why these issues are so important. so if there's anybody out there who is listening, if you're

struggling, seek help. >> thank you, mr. president. >> you're welcome. [applause] if you know somebody who is struggling, help them reach out. remember the family members who shoulder their own burdens and need our support as well. and more than anything, let people who are suffering in silence know that recovery is possible. they're not alone, there's hope, there's possibility. and that's what all of you represent with the extraordinary advocacy and work you've already done. thank you all for being here. let's do everything we can to help our fellow americans heal and thrive. now i would like to turn it over to secretary sebelius who will e leading our opening panel. [applause]

>> now a georgetown university forum about how president obecause moo -- obama's second term may affect his legacy. this is a little more than an hour. >> thank you so much, i want to thank the loyal georgetown alums for coming back, including members of our panel. i want to tell you as somebody

who teaches here, the new generation of georgetown students is doing you proud. when i say i truly love georgetown, i can give you evidence for that, my wife is a georgetown grad, we got married at the chapel. we have a lot of parties in the public policy school in front of the chapel, my teen said, it must be nice to walk by where you get married. i said, it is. then i paused, and i said, and it's a good thing we're still married. i was thinking about today's panel, it's called cementing a legacy, it could be called a fool'ser rand, and it could be call that because determining a legacy at this point, an eighth into his second term, consider,

for instance, if we'd had such a discussion about ronald reagan in the midst of the iran-contrascandal, his legacy would be different. harry truman was extremely disliked when he left office and new republican -- and now republicans and kems identify with his legacy. but in 35 seconds, to put what we might discuss, what might business legacy be, ending the great depression? the re-lution in gay merge, education reform, budget issues, notably the end of the bush tax cut for high income people and perhaps immigration, maybe even gun control. in terms of his political legacy two victories built on high african-american turnout, gains aamong latinos, substantial margins among the young but democrats lost the house, had severe set bas in governorships

in 2010 and state legislative lossdzes gave the republicans control over redistricting which is fwoning to strengthen them for a long time out. can obama's coalition be recreated? do demographic trends favor the democrats? where can the republicans chip away at obama's majority, choices on iraq, afghanistan, his latest speech on terrorism, drones, asia, the recent unpleasantness, i'm thinking of benghazi, iraq, and the i.r.s. and finally is there a philosophical legacy here? we have a lot to talk about even if our judgments today might not be exactly what they would be if we reconvened, and i hope we do, and i hope you all come back at the end of president obama's term. let me start with a broadly general question, which is, and i'll start with my colleague chris, we have two chrises on the panel, i may refer to that

chris as the fifth as he often referred to himself. he -- >> it's a contract. >> he refers to his son as fix jr. on he blog. so let me start with the fix and then work down the panel. which is where do you see president obama now and chris actually put a couple of issues on the table which, you know, in judging that, which include, you know, how does his style contribute to that and also how does the changing mood in days the since the class of 1983 was here. and ron, class of 1988, brought along his own cheering section, including his wonderful wife. >> always good to seed the audience. >> so i think where he is now is that he is the sort of best

campaigner in the country by far. he's the best candidate we've seen. he is someone with real, whether you like him -- i always say this to people and almost everybody feels one way or the other, whether you like him or disleek, he was tremendous as a candidate. speaking ability is well known, unless people say what's tissue pay attention to it. but he's the first guy to raise $1 billion ever. he's someone who is very gifted at those things. i think he has struggled more and i think his aides including dan pfeiffer, who graduated my year and is now a senior advisor, would agree he has struggled more on the governance side of things. because i write a blog, i can hear people in the conference section saying he struggled because republicans have blocked him. that is in part true, though -- well, it's in large part true though i remind people then he was elected he had a democrat controlled house and senate.

he could not get health care -- eventually got through but it was not how they would want it to have gone through. the stimulus went through with a few votes from republicans, one of whom wound up switching and becoming a democrat, arlen specter. the question as you go forward, barack obama if you read the span of his career and i urge you to read our colleague david marana s's book about obama and who he is, always has seen himself as someone who can bridge the ungridgeable -- unbridgeable gap. in his life in general, his life story is unbelievable, again whether you leek him or december leek him, it's unbelieve thble that this kid, david went to indonesia and stood on the street barack obama lived on as a young kid and he was like, this is as far as you could possibly be from being elected to the white house. that's a good way -- that's amazing that that person gets elected. but he's always been uniquely

giffletted and feels hymn uniquely able to bridge unbridgeable divides and solve problems no one else can solve. when he ran in 2008 his premise in part was, fwoth is broken and i'm the one who can fix it. he has not so far done that. blame lies in a lot of places, including with republicans who found their voice in opposing him but again he made a big pledge, that he was going to change how washington worked. he has not yet done that. gun control is the latest example where, including by some of his own party he struggled. i think his legacy is up in the air as -- in materials of his governance record. his record as a candidate is hard to argue with. he beat hillary clinton in a rimary and then won, you know, 332 electoral vote, his electoral record is pretty good.

>> chris? >> i think i'm the only panel member who lives currently way beyond the beltway and when i was a student here i remember, and then worked on the hill, i remember people referring to washington as 67 square miles sur rond by reality. i'm back in the hinterlands. those of you who may read my blog, straight scoop politics, know while i have run for office as a democrat, i'm an independent political analyst. i see any president who builds a legacy, there's two significant elements. one is the turf they're operating in and the second their leadership skills to get the job done in that climate. i recall and some of you may have worked, one of the beauties of going to georgetown, we have opportunities to work on the hill when we're going through school, i did that as an undergraduate here and at law school, that was in the 1980's and 1990's and the environment down here was so different. the travel budgets for members of congress were low.

many members stayed in washington over weekends. that was -- these are what i want to call the elements that made life more productive and efficient in government way back when. now it still was political but these were the elements. the travel budgets. members were here. you'd go into the restaurants on the hill and in churches on sunday, you'd see members around. on friday, killing each other on the floor of the house or the senate but buy bithe time they had played cards over the weekend, very often on monday, not in all cases but very often they were able to cut a deal on something. number two, you didn't have these wonderful stations like c-span and the cable networks and because of that, there wasn't a 24/7 news cycle. people who served in the house and senate and i knew this well when i was state legislator as well, you could take a tough vote and the president would be working with people who would take tough votes and they'd have time to go home and explain it

to their constituents before they were being blasted all over their tv. and the third element is the money. campaign financing has skyrocketed and so back in those days, for a four-year presidential cycle, you had at least two years to work some things out that may be controversial and in a two-year congressional cycle you had at least the first year before it got super flill political. that's hard. know president obama has today's climate and that's tough. barack obama is not bill clinton. barack obama if you watched him as i have and i'm sure you have the last few years, he loved being the chairman of the board he doesn't really enjoy the nitty-gritty of being the c.e.o. and running the country. bill clinton was very detail oriented. then i was a senate chief of staff he'd be working the phones cons tavently and knew the

nuances of legislation. thanks to a georgetown grad who is now the chief of staff to the president, you know, he's been starting this routine by inviting the member of the house and senate to dinner but it's a little too late. you have to have built those relationships in the first term in order to build on that. and he hasn't. can it work? it can work but it's difficult to pick up when you're starting now. plus he, wron if you saw "the it was a little bit too psychological for me. it talked about his upbringing and how his relationship or not relationship with his father affected his dealings with other people and makes them reluctant to really get close and work with members of congress. i don't know whether that is true or not because i don't know him that well. but i know the leadership art of and the campaigning. have seen him.

the more he does that, the more it antagonizes the republican side and makes it tougher for him to cut a deal. he has to balance off that part of it. i don't want to go on too long. >> i have a very different perspective than chris and christine. one of the most significant in our time. first, there is the economic turnaround. you can agree or disagree with economic policies, but the naff -- the math on the numbers,

national welcome housing prices, and the greatest nominal reduction of any president in history. andng the auto industry turning around the economy, that will be his legacy. then health reform. ending the time in our country where people could lose their homes and their bank accounts because they didn't have health care coverage, that is an achievement, a historic achievement. it is a 100-year project to getting with president wilson about building a social safety net. the new deal, ifree think our social safety as a country is complete. i think that ended with president obama. i think that is a historic landmark. he ended three wars that began on september 11. the war in iraq, the war in afghanistan, and the war against al qaeda. . teach on campus today for children today, this is a

war they have lived with since they were nine years old. without those wars to come -- with those wars coming to an end under this president, that is tremendous. we also have our first nonwhite present, but will be on that, what has happened in our lesbiann of gay, and americans. gays are serving openly in our military, the inclusion of his antics as a significant part -- the inclusion of hispanics as a significant part of our politics. i think that inclusiveness, that change of the dominant paradigm in our society is also a historic landmark. the economic turnaround health care, ending the wars, and the

inclusiveness of people of color, gays, hispanics, all of this changes our society. i think those are four complaint week -- those are four complete historical outcomes. >> if i ever need a lawyer, i am going to hire ron maclean. although i wouldn't be able to afford it. [laughter] let me go back to the beginning on president obama. was always a potential contradiction in his original 2008 promise, even though you don't have to see it as a contradiction. on the one hand, he ran as a resident who would bring red and blue together. there's no red american there's no lou america. there is the united states of america. america.e there is the united states of america. it was structurally impossible

from the day he walked into the white house. on the other hand, he promised to be a progressive reformer who would really change the country. indeed, on your list, notably, healthcare, dodd frank, and financial reform and some of the things that actually happened -- there was that sort of reform. but he has been caught between the two and judged often on the basis of one and not the other. at times, he seems to have made people on both sides unhappy. let me start with ron on that since you made the bold defense. i think the record and the historical achievements speak for themselves. i think a way in which we got some of these things was very different than the way president obama thought we would get to them in 2008. i think there are a lot of reasons to compare him to woodrow wilson as a president.

largely progressive achievements, but sometimes working with people on the right and sharply criticized by people in his own party and accused of being out of touch. although editorial cartoons at the time had president wilson has a professor lecturing the congress. however he has gotten it done -- and it has been it for and ways of working, sometimes just with democrats and sometimes across the aisle sometimes by executive action, and sometimes by commander-in-chief on the war, and setting the tone on the inclusiveness, i think he has got it done. >> incidentally, for those interested, a friend and colleague at the brookings institute rudy wonderful essay comparing woodrow wilson and barack obama in suggesting, sort of detailing much of your case on this. >> i don't disagree on ron's points on his achievement. people criticized him for

moving off the stimulus and taking on health care. but he was record doing that. i think in time, while it is controversial now and we should be grasping at now more and talking about the implementation in a more positive light than he has recently, in time, that will be a major achievement. that taking us from the verge of a fiscal cliff as we were in 2009 and sipping that is true. -- and saving that is true. but the cost issues, like the grand bargain, people want him to achieve on the deficit. it probably will not be achieved in the next three and a half to four years. it is a failure that i think the public, in the long-term, will regret that he didn't achieve. i think joe biden has been an enormous asset. let's face it.

take credit for being chief of staff there. i met joe when i was -- i had just gotten out of -- let's see -- i was in school getting ready to go out. he had just earned it in the senate and i interviewed in his staff. i didn't go to work for him, but i knew him for three years. right after the election last november, perfect example, with the sequestration pending, he is able to cut a deal with the republicans on the hill. he has the relationships that he was able to build and he did an excellent job. and i do think him on social deficit -- as most of us did secondhe state of -- his inaugural address in january, people were surprised that the general fizzle -- the general' philosophical nature of it. but i think this is truly barack obama. you want social justice come open doors come able playing field to be part of his legacy.

he wants social justice, open doors, level playing field to be part of his legacy. there are still elements that could have been stronger if he was able to work on the hill better. i think president obama would agree with this. when he was elected in 2008, the expectations were impossible for .nyone to meet certainly on the left, the cut is in the center, but definitely on the left. it would have been impossible to have met them. on november 7 and get all of the troops out on november 8 and we would have single-payer healthcare by november 9.

in reality coming and one who has worked on hill, that is not possible. from thek he suffered overwhelming nature of his victory. you would rather have an overwhelming victory than not, but it still set him up in some ways to fail no matter what he did. i think this is true with most politicians, especially with barack obama. there is a battle between pragmatist and idealist. at some level, there is a mix of that in all of us. i would say politicians are human. good to remember that. they have a set of motivations, two. i actually think he genuinely believed, when he was elected, that he, as a unique historical figure, the way he was elected, who he was, his background, that he was someone who would be able to bring people together. and i think he did attempt to do that. i look act to the whole debt

ceiling debacle -- i look back to the whole debt ceiling debacle. it fell apart. i can't remember what grand bargain was. it fell apart. barack obama goes and gives a statement and john boehner is a statement. both of them are very clearly work out. you rarely see emotions at that level politics. they are good at not making clear how angry they are. that is one of those things that they get better at. they are good at masking emotion. asked that especially of -- >> but especially obama. he was generally annoyed and that gives 25 -- that gives way to frustration. then he took a different and more successful electoral path, i think. towas no longer willing

reach out. his reelection rates are coming up and there were a lot of other factors. but he turned into a much more successful politician from that point on because i think he listened to what ron and what other folks in the administration were saying, which is that you think the republicans are waiting to find something that they want to work with you on and they are not. fact from people in the administration. i would argue he was more effective in terms of hitting what he wanted done and the message he wanted out there from august 2011 and certainly until november 2012. actually through the fiscal cliff and through the better part of this year. >> i want to ask each of you a different question. by the way, on the fiscal cliff come i do think that the whole

negotiating style became controversial. i want to negotiate a new house or a new car for my will not ask the obama administration to help negotiate for me. liberals always criticize the president, saying that he negotiates with himself. he starts where he wants to end for sto. he wants a deal. there's a very pragmatic part of them. if you as an ideologue, he wouldn't have opted out to public money. they raised $750 million. he is not a pure ideologue. he is smart politically and he makes those decisions. this is pragmatic. but he wants to find common ground.

it is just a question if there is common ground to be found. >> i will open this up to you all. when i come to you, speak your we doon as loudly -- have two and a from the audience. oh. 1998ere are severaleral college grads here who are the deeply informed. they are not just here because i'm here. [laughter] >> forgive me for not looking at my briefing book. a kind of governing question. two potentially thelated and law,

healthcare act and dodd frank, so much of the legacy is to be determined by regulation and implementation. and the healthcare law is particularly vulnerable because so much of it is through the state. hostage to a lot of forces hostile to it. we were speaking about these two things going forward. >> obviously, there are significant legislative achievements. but the devil is in the details. there's a lot of work left to be done. that said, i do think that there is a certain inevitability to the way in which healthcare will rollout, no matter how the republicans try to resist. medicaid got a lot of

resistance from the states. by now it is such an incredibly bedrock part of our health care system that even the most conservative republican governors won't roll back the core medicaid. i think what you will see is the affordable care act get implemented in most of the states. there will be a few holdouts. they will look around them and people in other states will have healthcare coverage and it will be working and prices will go down. and people will want that. time willmentum in grind this out. on dodd frank, it is a very complex law. you it moved to deal with some of it will stop some parts of it, but not yet. project fora big the president and his white house in this term, in the second term, taking a lot of things they got done in the first two years and bringing them to their full fruition in his final four years. and how that comes out will color, at least in the short term, how his legacy is

perceived. although i do believe come in the long run, time and history is on their side. -- on his side. >> you are on the hill going back to 1979. this relates to the question i want to ask sto. the change in the republican party and how that has had such a large effect on president obama's term. i agree with you on all the factors you cited about people not [indiscernible] i do think it is a terrible mistake for the country that people don't move here, not because i want to further jack up watching the real estate prices, but because it has created more of a break. but fundamentally, it is an ideological break, not any other kind. about the change, not in light of personal relations, but a shift in ideology.

as you know, from reading all of those comments underneath your -- you can talk about comments, too, but -- a lot people come back at the media -- i am on the liberal side myself -- we equal, that there is that each party is equally different from the center. and that is just not true. i want you to address that. chris can talk about the change. again, not personality and feelings, but ideology. -- >>s more people know as more people know, the republican party was a much broader tent back then. there was a precise moderate segment of the republican party, even moderate liberals. in connecticut, we have six comments men and three were republican and three were democrats and and some of the republicans were fairly moderate and liberal. my opponent when i ran for congress was the last remaining

republican in new england in the congressional legation. -- congressional delegation. bob dole has recently said that there's no room in the republican party for moderates anymore. that has affected significantly their ability to get a national coalition. last summer, it was just -- i could see partial pieces moving around in the obama campaign. they had the gay lesbian issue. they had the healthcare money for catholic and non-catholic institutions issue among going to the women's vote. they had immigration. when you have the republican party sitting there watching it all and not able to address that because had alienated women on issues, alienated hispanic on issues. legacy talk about the

cometh immigration passes all, many say it will basically because president obama supports it, but it's important, but once the republicans in marco rubio take the lead on it, the republicans will get some credit for it and get some credit from the hispanic sector for the next presidential election. , to make's vote craddick presidential candidates have gotten it the last few times repeatedly. the republicans have lost on that. they need to figure out an agenda to pick that up as well. the fact that their positions have become more right wing, the fact that they don't have that mainstream segment of the party the way they used to come i think that diminishes their ability to put together a coalition to win the national women's vote. >> i think michele bachmann's retirement this week is a good example. her defenders -- and there are some -- doing >> how many? >> i don't think her defenders would say that this is a person

who left a lasting imprint on congress. she ran very briefly for congressional leadership. it was literally a one-day campaign and she dropped out because she would get 30 votes and her opponent would get 200 votes. her model is an interesting one in which the ability of a back and member of congress -- true of a republican or democrat -- to be a national figure based on some combination of -- i think she has a certain amount of willingness to say somewhat controversial things, social media, cable -- there is a hold different avenue that exists. you can become a national figure. in the 1980s, there is no michelle bachmann in that regard. there's no way. you can't get there where you

can now. ted cruz is someone who has expressed zero interest in legislating. he says commerce does too much. i think we should do less. he has become a big figure in the party by doing less. the game onis in immigration. it goes in a way that looks bad. there is a way in which people can assume politics. >> we have empowered the audience. thank you so much. we are going to turn to you. but on the one hand, whenever people say things are way worse outcome i go back and say, well, they did impeach bill clinton. this is hardly a friendly act. on the other hand, things are --

[laughter] on the other hand, things are quite affront. white different. even from the 1990s until now. can you talk about party and media and then we will open it up to the audience. when i want to persuade the students that i am very old, i tell the story. when i went to the clinton white house in 1996, the washington post was going to break a politics changing story, that there was chinese money and our local system. it would really transform the 1996 campaign. and it did in some ways. in the yellow sat oval room of the president's residence and we waited for some person to come back from "the washington post" loading dock and bring us a bulldog edition of "the washington post" so we could find out what was in the story.

that was 1996. 1986.96, not [laughter] so they really should -- so a relatively short time waiting for someone to walk a newspaper back to the white house to today haven't read what chris has posted in the last seven minutes puts me out of date in american politics. >> that is exactly how chris is. [laughter] the pace of all of this is changed. it is also a lot more democratic. 1996, if yourue in wanted to know what was going on in american politics, you had to be in washington. now if you are sitting in a place in america, you have equal access to what chris writes on twitter, on facebook, on his has in a way that broadened access to political access. cable, all these things. it is more of a national

conversation than it was 20 years ago. back then, it was a conversation with in the beltway. i'm sure that there are negative things about that, in terms of polarization. but there are a lot of positive things come a more open system in terms terms of a national conversation than 20 years ago. big mainstream media companies, including "the washington post" are dealing with it. but also in the democratization of the media, two. -- the media, too. >> i can't tell you how old i'm feeling. [laughter] rex there is a leveling. back then it was "the wall street journal," "the new york ap," and now people say

who is your competition? anybody who can type onto the internet, which is basically everyone at this point. that is an oversimplification, but it is in fact true. i do think that is a great for journalists. we are way more accountable than lease to be. the usage of the people would say that story generated a lot of talk. there were two letters to the editor. now, you have instantaneous -- i get one thing wrong or i misspelled the name of a character in "game of thrones" on my twitter feed, i get responses immediately. parents. [laughter] that's fine. that is a respectable right. on our it helps keep us toes in a positive way. there is a lot of vitriol out there that you have to put up with, but it keeps us on our toes. that is a thing ultimately for everything that we are all after. >> it does keep us jobless on

our toes. but when you're footing the public -- when you are flooding the public and for people who are raising a family trying to separate the wheat from the chaff and you have officials sitting there at getting things just on the gun vote and the nra for there is a lot of information and misinformation out there, it makes it tougher for public officials to take those votes when they are getting feedback from people who may not have the full information on issues. >> i will make one observation and then turned to the first question from the audience. i love the new technology and i use it. but i think new media make spreading truth more efficient but they also make spreading untruths more efficient. it is a really interesting problem for all kinds of media

and for citizens right now. eventually, there is a collecting process. always thought, when something really bad about someone get out there and it is totally untrue, they never fully shed it. it is always in the back of people's heads, even if it is wrong. i still think that is a problem. ,> can you imagine a decade ago the president going into the briefing room with a copy of his birth certificate? it is remarkable the power. and i still get e-mails from people -- have you seen the birth certificate? i don't spend a lot of time on that topic. that the power of it is remarkable. you mentioned early on that we would get to things like benghazi and the irs. i wonder if we can turn to that real quick. i think the administration is

trained to present an image that republicans are making a mountain out of a mole hill. but the simple facts are that onre was a terrorist attack sovereign u.s. soil right before the election. and there clearly was some attempt to try to divert attention from what happened for political purposes due to president obama, specifically secretary of state clinton leaving the homeland unprotected. that and the sea was left unprotected. i wonder how that will continue to play out. specifically, i am interested in what my friend ron queen things. and whether that will affect it iss legacy or whether a speed bump and moves industry. i also have a similar question

regarding the irs issue. >> we will assume the irs is part of this discussion. do you want to answer first? >> obviously, it was a horrible tragedy at benghazi. i think the the brave people who were there try to protect the floor mats, several of them lost their lives and wouldn't say that the facility was unprotected. it certainly was a predictable enough. ithink there is no -- certainly was not protected well enough. they have conducted a full tryingwhat went on and to protect our emcees to keep that from happening again. there is a lot of noise among us in capitol hill. withd a lot more to do the republican views of hillary clinton's 2016 candidacy than issues about embassy security. but i hope we do get a better

and the sea security policy out of this. i hope we do more to prevent those kinds of incidents from happening in the future. , we needs, obviously to get to the bottom i of that one. we need to see who gave the orders and why there appears to be an uneven this in the enforcement of thiese rules and regulations. i think it is too soon to say why that happened. whether there was evidence in the white house to give orders or suggestions that people do that, i don't think this is a scandal that touches in the in the white house where the president or senior officials in the administration. he is president of the united states. he is responsible for the conduct of the government and what officials are doing under his authority and the irs is part of that. and he has to clean it up and straighten it out and fix it. i hear people talking about restoring confidence in the irs. i don't remember a time when there was a lot confidence in the irs.

but every american has a right to be equally skeptical about the iris, whether you are liberal, conservative or a martyr. youbout the irs, whether are liberal, conservative or a moderate. wrote a column on april 15 praising the men and women of the irs. probably the least popular column i have ever written in my life. to take either benghazi or the holy or otherwise story of benghazi. >> i just want to say that these are important -- ron has mentioned the physics of each, but is are important events that distract the administration from focusing on what they want to focus on. there's no surprise that obama gave a each on the shifting in his speechism

the other day. in terms of benghazi and the irs and the department of justice and ap, those are the three or four issues lately -- i agree with ron wholeheartedly. once the e-mails cannot come it was pretty clear that the administration wasn't trying to hide anything. i think this is really about 2016 and all about keeping hillary's feed to the fire and discourage her from running. in terms of the irs and the president, a major poll was taken after those three stories day.in the headlines every president obama had a 52% approval rating. it didn't seem to affect his job approval rating. -- i arrest's reputation the irs' titian was still down in the tank. and republicans on the hill were

doing what they should do to at reputatione irs's was still down in the tank. and republicans on the hill were doing what they should be doing. i don't think any of these groups should have [indiscernible] but that is a separate issue. [applause] haserms of the -- the irs the ability to connect with people. so we can relate to what goes on there. until all the facts come out, how much the white house knew, there does not seem to be any -- connectionchina between the white house and what happened at the iris. the -- at the irs. the ap is an important issue.

that you can say find republicans now who are the root variance. in terms of a subpoena, ap should have been told in advance. but i don't know the intricacies. but it is sort of an inside the beltway sort of issue than an issue that appeals broadly to the public. from a political standpoint, it is important for the white house to get beyond these things and get back to them fomenting healthcare and dealing with immigration and some of the other issues. the 54 tax act and 501 c4's should be exclusive for welfare purposes. the regulation five years later , asterpreted that

interpreting your marriage vow going from exclusively to primarily. [laughter] whatever happens here, and we should find out, they messed up interpretation and an unclear regulation is at the heart of this problem. we have another gentleman or lady over here. >> gentlemen, i hope. [laughter] i wanted to raise the issue of foreign policy in a broader sense. a book aboutint, form policy is really the critical of the administration. taking it to task to summarize that it has a lack of vision and that our foreign policy, and in them or 10, is in a sense of drift. -- in an important sense, is in

a sense of drift. >> ronald, you should talk about it. you know more about foreign policy than i do. >> why don't you start? >> sure. the economy -- president obama has acknowledged that when he came into office that the economy was worse than he thought. any time the economy matters emma when it matters, it is most always when it is struggling. much time, that and health care, in first chairman that, in truth -- i won't say for bolsa got left behind, but it didn't, but i think that the -- i don't want to say that foreign policy got left the because it didn't come it didn't getthat attention.

i gave speeches a few years ago in europe and it was really cool. the first question they always ask is what does america think ?f russell' brussels and i told them, the average american is not thinking about brussels. the truth is, when the economy is in tough shape, we rarely look beyond our shores. not everybody, but the majority of people. normally, that is doubly true when the economy isn't doing well. i think the president willnized that reality stop you're likely to see more -- that reality. .ou're likely to see more , the captureiraq and killing of osama bin laden,

these are not broad mix and go things. these matter in real and serious ways. do i think they focus more on domestic? all essay -- domestic policy? yes. do you think americans want them to focus more on domestic policy> absolutely. course i think the president's was the war on terror form policy. if you have a child in college, every day, that child, since nine years old, americans have been in combat. we have cadets on campus. when they should appear as freshmen, they thought they were leaving here to go command troops in, it in iraq and afghanistan. next year, we will have no americans in combat. it will be home. that is a foreign-policy issue. the below attack the country on

the sound on 9/11, elated, he has been killed. that is a significant part of foreign-policy. i know there are folks who want to see us do more nationbuilding in afghanistan. want to seelks who us do more nationbuilding in iraq. but i think the president has made a priority of doing what we could do responsibly and reasonably. americans but more than a decade of their sons and daughters and tens of billions of dollars in those two countries and i think the president made a responsible choice. it is time now for the people of those two countries to take over and bring our troops and our people home. i think that is certainly a centerpiece of president obama's foreign policy. tohink he is doing a lot rebuild our relationships around the world. of bigas been a lot

form policy issues in the first four years, world economic cooperation in dealing with the economic troubles of the eurozone and working closely with leaders over there. i think there will be renewed focus in the next two years of our relationship with china and they turned to asia. it will be a very significant part of our foreign-policy in the next three years. hopefully, at the outset, we are brief and to the president's second term. three years from now, we will look back on what the president did to engage china and work with china on issues and it will be a big part of his foreign- policy legacy. >> i think your question is a good one. it is significant that the president of the council of an old relations, friend of mine, has written a book called "foreign-policy begins at home." that is the last thing that you would expect him to write.

he wrote that book because he argues and i think this is an instinctive wrong -- instinctive among them -- instinct among americans are now that we have to get things right at home and make adjustments. i think there is a war weariness in the country. you see it in the polls on syria will stop there is a lot of relief support for more intervention in syria. there's not a lot of popular support. we are in one of those times where we believe we need to strengthen ourselves in fundamental ways at home in order to preserve our power for the long run. but it is a very interesting book. one more question from the audience. where is the mike? it's right up there. think you. to thankd like georgetown university today for putting together such a ideologically rigorous panel.

we have a liberal journalist on the left, the partisan hack with ron in the know, the former democratic candidate for some office sitting to his left. and we have the centrist. i would like to thank them for putting together an ideologically rigorous panel. looking back at the way we look at presidents, we look back at bill clinton is the first black president, whether jokingly or not. george w. bush is the first legacy president. there are some similarities between bush and obama that have not been discussed day. they probably both would be where they were today without who their father was. second of all, i would also say that a lot of the issues that really affect their future, -- the bottomfuture, line is we have probably a

president who is overmatched a little bit with the size and scope of the federal government. how do we keep track of all the things that are going on? how my supposed to know what is going on in all of these offices in cincinnati and benghazi? there are all of these things going on? i think he's right. probably be remembered as someone who is a first affirmative action president, who won the resident because of the color of his skin rather than anything else. i would like to discuss that point. the question is -- do you think that obama is the first affirmative action president? iacks before we get to that, personally take some affect -- some offense to the question, but i appreciate it.

we did have a staunch conservative who had to cancel at the last moment. so georgetown does care about ideological diversity. cap buchanan and my course and -- i do believe in. old diversity. [applause] i do believe in philosophical diversity. [applause] the gentleman raises a series of questions that i think could allow us to sort of offer some closing comments on the obama legacy. let me start with chris. >> let me answer the question as asked. i think barack obama's background, an african father, a white mother, largely raised by

didgrandparents in hawaii clearly come in the same way that my background as a dad who is a teacher and a mother who is in healthcare raised in connecticut, our background impacts who we are. do i think he was elected because he is african-american? i would agree with that. i think he was elected in large part some combination of who he was and who people believed he represented, which i think a lot of people represented the american story. and you can debate how much it was, 50/50 or 20-80. or that his name was not george w. bush and it did not have an r after it. what if they nominated mitt romney? i don't think it would have made

a huge difference. but it is a broad question that you raise as it relates to size of government. it is sort of the crux of the ongoing debate that we have in this country between the two parties. bill clinton very famously declared the era a government over. a democrat. i think barack obama was elected at least in part -- people love to a rack -- to iraq as a thing that brought george bush down. if you look at the numbers, they would suggest that hurricane katrina and the handling of that coupled with iraq helped ring it down. president obama was elected at least in part to bring back confidence in competency -- to competency and to doback things that should be doing. people have in their minds what

the government should do. should the government provide health care? we would have to raise your taxes to do that. well -- we have a very contradictory to the two. there is a libertarian strain, particularly among younger people. they want government out of their personal lives. ore, oklahoma mor happens or hurricane sandy happens come even a majority of republicans said that we should not offset the money that goes to hurricane -- excuse me turn a to really come it doesn't needs to offset it with the federal budget. so there is this constant battle. i don't envy people from barack obama on down who have to deal with this. if impart your job is to lead and to channel the desires and wants of the populace, i don't know that this country knows

what they want. you know, bob dole got a lot of attention saying that they should close the republican party for pairs. he said that the american people don't really know what they want and that is kind of the problem. yes, leaders and politicians are supposed to lead. but they are also elected officials come elected by us to carry out our desires, hopes, dreams come ambitions, keep us from our fears, etc., etc. those things are often complement -- contradictory at the moment and that is why you see this massive polarization between people who think that president obama is the greatest president ever and who people think that barack obama is among the worst presidents ever. is has made a lot of good points that i agree with. i won't go on at length. to get back to part of your question. you answered most of his.

still think the legacy of barack obama is tied into the economic cliff of 2009 and the healthcare initiative and opening up opportunities in a broader sense in social justice. i think he is more than an affirmative action president stop but i remember how people said in the last election how people in the united states could elect a person of color. on the person who said he ran for something. i represented a republican district in the connecticut legislature. . had a coalition of moderates i was one of the early members of the dlc, which is what though clinton and al gore organized, but i remember saying cash base to speak to young women all the time when i was elected at the age of try seven andes to speak at high schools and some eighth- sevens -- at age when he to speak to high school students

and some eighth graders. seem to believe that a man of color would be elected to the white house before a woman would. perhaps it transforms us to the next that in thinking that we might elect a woman in this country the next time around so that people are more comfortable with that. [applause] is my reunion and i am in a good news, so i will try not to take offense to a statement that was offensive. if the suggestion is that somehow president obama is not up to the job because he is african-american it is particularly offensive. him ano call affirmative action president, i'm not sure what that means. it is suggestion is that being black is a huge advantage in american politics, then i doubt you would be the first -- he would be the first black president. blackld have so few

members of congress and few black governors. but he is a person who graduated from columbia university, not quite georgetown, but still a very good school. [laughter] harvardresident of the law review, so not quite georgetown law school, but a very good law school. he went on to serve with distinction in the u.s. senate and as our president and i think there's no question about this intellect and ability and achievements. you can dispute his. i know there is a passionate disagreement about the points i met and whether or not you agree with health care reform or dodd frank or the ways in which we saved the auto companies and turn the economy around, whether or not you agree with national security things. but his talent, his attitude, his skills and passion that he has brought to the job come i hard toey are very dispute. in terms of the more specifics, as i said, he inherited a huge

deficit. there was no grand bargain, but between policies of cuts and increases in revenues, sequester, for better or worse, heading down the deficit to three percent gdp. he is getting it under control. bottom line, we see the improvement in the economy and we see the other legacy items. but do i think the obama presidency is a historic one, i do. obviously. it is historic for who he is and what he represents, the kind of change he has wrought to the country, his accomplishments. and i look forward to being back here in three years when this is all over and debating it all again. >> thank you so much. [applause] i just want to say three quick things in closing. response of a politician who is dealing with a crowd that was really coming at verywas barney frank in a difficult town meeting.

he finally looked up and he said, look, we politicians are but you voters, are no day at the beach either. [laughter] i always loved that line. passionnd point, the and some of the conversation here reflects the fact that we twoicans are that we have sets of ideas. one is community and solidarity and the others that about liberty and individualism. and that we are constantly looking for the right balance between those two sets of values and that we happen to be having a good titular lead sharp debate right now in the country. what in the end come i think is good for us to remember that we are best off when we find the right talents between the two rather than put one set or the other set aside. i want to thank this distinguished panel of georgetown analysts and this

distinguished georgetown audience. [applause] one of the great things about teaching here and being a student here is the extraordinary diversity of view among students and among graduates. is expressed intelligently and well tutored by our jesuits and those who follow in a great tradition. thank you so much for being here. [applause] that was cool. [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

jay carney is a to respond to a new report. here is a little of what he had to say. you can see the entire briefing at c-span.org. has the president seen the report that was supposed to come out tomorrow where it talks about waste at the irs? the irs employees using the presidential suite. does the president think that is appropriate? >> no. well, we haven't in the report, but he doesn't think that conduct is appropriate. i will point you to statements released by the acting irs commissioner. comfort should take

that a conference like this would not take place today. sweeping new restrictions have been put in place in the irs and travel and training expenses have dropped more than 80% since 2010. large-scale meetings did not take place in 2011, 2012 or 2013. he would point out that the president has made creating an efficient and effective government they forrester of his administration. he he believes that everyone in the said masterson must take their role -- everyone in this administration must take their role as stewards of tax dollars very seriously. there have been a series of actions for reining in spending and increasing transparency and oversight of conference, travel activity. it was reduced by more than one billion dollars in fiscal year 2012 as compared to fiscal year 2010. on travel spending come agencies have lowered their spending on travel compared to fy 2010 levels by roughly $2 billion.

the department of agriculture drop it by $125 million. the drug enforcement administration requires employees to use the lowest available fares for air travel. they achieved six point $5 million in savings in fiscal year 2012. these are examples that illustrate the commitment the president has two wringing out waste and abuse of taxpayer dollars. it is important to note that danny were bill is now the acting commissioner at the irs and oversaw that iri click c-span, brought to you as a public service by your television provider. >> our series continues in a few moments with the life and times of caroline harrison. in an hour and a half,

president obama speaks at the white house conference on mental illness. and then a joint university forum on the president's second term. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> carlisle scott harrison bass worn -- caroline scott harrison was born when she met benjamin harrison. she grew into an accomplished artist, interested in women's issues. although the harrison presidency has been rated as fairly unsuccessful by some historians, those who tracked first ladies considered carolina harrison as one of the more underrated to serve in this role. we'll learn why in this segment of "first ladies: influence and image" and here to tell us more about the story of carolina harrison, our two guests who know the office well.

edie, thanks for coming back. and bill, white house historian, has spent his professional career understanding the history of that building. bill and edie are both members of c-span sass -- c-span's academic advisory committee for this series. we're going to start with an illustration tonight. like to -- the white house itself is one of the most iconic buildings in the world. i think -- >> certainly, yeah. >> is -- if caroline harrison had had her way, it would like different today. we have her designs for the white house that we'd like to show people at home right now. what were her plans?

what was she trying to do with this big expansion of the white house? >> well, it was a time of big spending in his administration. the government was spending a lot of money. and she got into it by wanting to create a house, they were crammed in this house. they only lived upstairs. you see, to understand it, on the picture, the middle of the upper picture, the columns and just the four windows to each side of it, the office was on the left. the east room wrast was just below that and the other public rooms on the ground floor, then the other end, the west end, or

the right side, was the family quarters which was seven rooms and a bath and a half and she wanted something big to live in. but something also to entertain in because the harrisons entertained all the time. and so she had this plan done which you see here. you're looking at the south, of the back part of the white house with the round porch, where president truman later built a balcony. the center part is the old white house building that was finished in the 18th century and the white house is on a bank. that's 17 feet from -- on one side it's one story -- two-story house. it's a three-story house on the walkout on the back. about 17 feet, i guess. and so what you see here was a quad rangel with the green houses that they had had, which were really specimen conservetories up. see that's dropped. so the windows would still have the beautiful view of the potomac. it would not have been anence closed area -- an enclosed area. on the right sood was to be, as i recall, the national gallery or the national museum.

it was not washington one. and then there were other public rooms on the other side. the second floor then had guest room, family quarters and such as that to make it a much more livable house, as well as the office. >> looks a bit like some of the grand houses of europe. this is going to brand the other traditionalists, but are you happy she wasn't success snfl >> yes, i am. from our point of view. it was basically theodore roosevelt who insisted it be restored. >> edie, what's interesting about the story is this woman came into the white house not being seen as political but she had an innate sense of how the lobby was. she was successful in getting it past the senate. tell the story of how she put together that winning coalition for the senate. >> well, she went about lobbying through her entertaining in the first place. but she also called in the press and showed them the plans and got them to sign on that this was really a good idea. and of course they were in the white house at the centennial of the presidency. so she thought this would be a wonderful plan. as a memorial for the 100th anniversary, the nation had grown in land and in power and she wanted a residence that reflected the global power of the united states. so this was a perfect opportunity. so she called in the press, she got a lot of major people in washington interested. she lobbied the senate. she lobbied the house. and i will let bill tell why it failed. >> before we do that, she also enlisted the help of a former

first lady. >> harriette lane. she brought her in and she also used the name of george washington and how this would be, you know, a fitting memorial and so forth. >> he had built the house. she was just making it work. >> right. >> and hadn't washington also envisioned that it could have been added on? >> he did. in years to come. >> so, she won the senate but in the house she ran into a formidable foe which was the speaker reid. >> speaker tom reed from maine. he was a great adversary of benjamin harrison. they fought a lot over bills. and someone from california was mrs. harrison's great ally. and he spent the night sleeping

in the cloakroom, hoping the appropriation would go through. but speaker reed, he was a very razor-tongued kind of sharp guy, and he cooked up this story that harrison had appointed a postmaster in maine without his approval and he crashed the whole thing. he wouldn't let it come up. >> so, lacking her ability to expand the white house, she turned to restoring what she already had. >> she redecorated. thinking and hoping it was a minor thing to do. and she became interested in the historic house and began researching things. and pulling out antiques and stuff and putting them in the different rooms and she had a decorator in boston make things spiffy. tiffany had been the last one to do the rooms. and they were very rundown. the special effects and all that nobody could reproduce. >> she didn't just find old

furniture that had been stored in the white house. here's a quote of what else she discovered in the white house. this is from her diary and we'll be using quotes from her very prolific diary throughout our program tonight. >> tell me the story of the rafts in the white house. >> washington has a very prolific and well-known rat community. , so they had infested the white house. and were both in the basement and i guess also in thed aic. >> yeah. >> and -- in atic. >> yeah. >> and so apparently the man with the ferrets was brought in to help reduce the rat population. but there was also a man with a gun i think. who was shooting the rats whenever he saw them. >> he would proceed her through atic.

then strangely enough, atic had no access to it. the little back stair that lincoln made famous was taken out and the elevator was put in there and somehow stair access to two floors, so they had to go on a ladder, up above the elevator, and she went, little tiny woman. she went up there with this guard, with the gun, and they began pulling things out of boxes and a rat would appear and he'd shoot it. and they were big ones, too. >> he'd shoot, she'd scream. >> she'd scream. >> is how the story goes. we would like to invite you to participate. this series, which we've been learning so much and hope you are too, this is our next to last for season one. and we'd love to have your comments and your participation and questions tonight. you can do it three ways. you can call us. and our phone numbers in eastern and several time zones -- >> make sure you dial that 202 area code. if you would like you can also join our social community, our facebook page already has some comments coming in. and you can tweet us, but if you do, use the#firstladies. as she approached the white house, she was criticized by

the press for being overly domestic. >> that's correct. >> what was the view of the changing first lady that it would be criticized? >> i think they thought that doing actual housework, which was what was room railroad -- which what what was rumored, rather than looking for historical treasures and trying to salvage the history of the white house and presidency, it was looked at as she was, you know, actually engaging in housework and maybe, who are, cooking their own meals. and this was seen as very much beneath the dignity of a first lady. but one of the things that she mirrors in the time is the growing home economics movement. which organized itself around 1890.

and so she was very much a part of her times in anticipating what was thought to be the professionalization of housework. so instead of being praised for what she did, she was criticized. and she could not fathom why there was all this, you know, scorn and mocking and so forth in the press of what she was doing in the white house, but i think people didn't quite understand what she was trying to accomplish. >> i would have thought that washington is hard on first ladies. they've been a little hard on mrs. obama. they are until they sort of prove themselves.

and she had been around, he been in the senate, they'd been in washington means times. she was a popular woman in washington, socially. but when she got in the house, it was a little different. >> different viewpoint. she was very hurt by the crit similar. >> what we learn is that the press went into a frenzy. it was the booming age of newspapers, there was coverage in magazines. so, the press was prepared to cover this first lady and weren't happy with what they were seeing. here's one quote from her diary. she wrote about the press, i am disgusted with newspapers and reporters. truth is the characteristic entirely unknown to them. santament we what might hear from presidents today. >> very modern. >> plus, she was following this absolutely gorgeous young woman. so that must have been very, very difficult. >> and a clever young woman. >> very clever woman.

young and with a husband who had no use for p.r. so people flocked around francis -- frances cleveland. >> frances was the sort of jacklin kennedy of her age. she was quite beautiful. >> about 10 years younger than mrs. kennedy was. >> she was 10 years younger than jackie was when she entered the white house. so she was very, very popular. of course there was this whole thing about this may-december romance that had taken place with the president. and much speculation before he actually married that maybe he was courting her mother.

then there was the sort of bombshell that, no, he was courting the young and beautiful frances. >> she was a beautiful woman but she was not -- frances cleveland, franky as she was known in the press, was just -- to tell a story about how clever she was. you may have had it on this show. >> she had her due last week. >> the president of spain is the first real visitor of state. she was the same as age as mr. cleveland. there was a reception at the white house and a pretty, pretty woman had -- wore pearls clear to the full and diamonds and all that stuff. ms. cleveland wore an off-white silk dress. it was a coup. she stole the show. >> benjamin harrison, our 23rd president, he was the republican -- he was a democrat. we're going to learn about some of the policies of his administration. but we talked about the fact that we'd be reading quotes for her diary and dave measure douk on twitter asks, knowing how important the presidency had become, did caroline expect her diary to be made public someday? we're going answer that question about her diaries by visiting the harrison house. it is in indianapolis. and if you get to the cap cal -- capital city of indiana, visit it yourself.

we're going to visit there for the first time and learn more about the diaries. >> caroline harrison's white house diary, this is something that we don't have out very often. she kept the diary and you can see very fragile. so she's written in the front here, keeping the diary and the dates. 1889. to 1891 for this one. in the die reshe mentions several different things she mentions going to arlington cemetery and decorating the soldier's gravesite at arlington. she mentioned riding with benjamin to the soldier's home and hospital. some of the things that were very near and deer to her here were working with orphans and with the hospitals and she continued to do some of that while she was in washington as well, visiting the hospitals and what not there as well. but she also mentioned some of the other events and things that are going none her diary. her artistic abilities i think -- [inaudible] and love of flowers. she mentioned making -- having the floral arrangements for

several different bank wets and dinners. one was -- south american countries meeting. she mentions decorations there as well. this is a dinner at the arlington in washington, d.c., and you can see the table setting had quite a large group. we have the vice president, the president and where the different delegations were sitting at that particular dinner. she also talks a lot about the centennial celebration in new york for the centennial of george washington's inauguration. from 1789 to 1889. things from the banquets and one of the parades was 7 1/2 hours long. and then also very personal and family-related things mentioned in the diary as well. mentioned how she's feeling, what the weather is like. but one of the things that she talks about is the kristening of their young granddaughter, mary lodge mckee. and she says that they used water from the river jordan

that her sister had brought back from a trip over there. and we actually have some of that water in our collection yet today. so we have a little container here. actually have, you know, some water in there as well. a bottle with the label there that her sister had brought back. and mary lodge mckee was chistened in a private ceremony at that time and she also mentions christmas at the white house and having the tree put up for the grandchildren and the harrisons had the first decorated christmas tree in the white house. and she mentioned some of the gifts that were given to her at that time including some opera glasses. so we have her opera glass here's that were given to her as a christmas gift that she mentions in the diary as well. >> so the answer to the viewer's question is it looks like she intended for these to be public documents. >> but you never know. if she had started much earlier, a person can get so absorbed in a diary, it becomes a confidant or friend. i don't know whether she did or not. she didn't do other things. like that. self-promotional or showing her. you know, she and the president both suffered from depression. and eventually it had an impact on her health. but they fought that together very hard by keeping busy.

>> they lost one. >> the white house in that time was filled with children but they were their grandchildren, correct? >> their grandchildren and their children. the son was in and out. he lived in montana. but his wife was there. and the children and then the daughter, mary, who's called maimie, and the little boy who became world famous for doing nothing. just being baby mckee. at the white house. >> right. so what was life at the white house like? >> crowded.

and lots and lots of entertaining. the evening was absolutely absorbed with it. remember the office was in the house. at the other end of the hall from the family quarters. so it was -- there were about 15 servants as i recall. most federal employees from the agencies and they are paid from the agencies and all these children and the routine of the private house, plus the public activities, it was a very busy place. >> we mentioned at the outset that the first lady was an artist and we're going to learn a little bit more about the kind of art she particularly loved but first let's do a few calls. we'll talk to horr simbings -- horris from philadelphia. before ask you the question, would you mute the volume on your tv? we're getting feedback. >> sure. thank you for taking my call. i've been watching the series right along.

i'm enjoying it very, very much. can you tell bus her background? who were her parents, where was she raised? was she et kated? long before she met her husband, can you tell us about that? >> sure. can you take that and we're going to spend a segment on it later on. >> well, she was born and brought up in oxford, ohio. her father had been a minister, but at the time he was a professor. at the university, miami university. and then went on to found the oxford women's institute which was a college for women. and so her parents were both extremely well educated and her father was a supporter of women's education. so he made certain that his daughter had a good one. and i think that that sort of interested her for the future in women's accomplishments and the progress of women.

>> laura is watching in clarksville, indiana. you're on. >> i why are the first ladies called the first ladies? >> that's a good question. >> well, i think that started when zachary taylor used that term for dolly madson during her memorial service in 1849. and he said she was truly the first lady of our land. she was a connection to the revolutionary time period and she keeps coming back to the white house. she was the first in social standing, probably for 16 years . first as jefferson's stand-in, first lady then, first lady on her own. but she continued to have great influence. and so i think that's how it started, that she was the first in stature. and that name carried on. it beant really picked up until after the -- it wasn't really picked up until after the civil war.

mrs. hayesment although i think harriette layne had that under some of her photographs in harpers and so anyway, but it just means the first among everyone. >> linda, bloomington, minnesota, you're on. >> good evening. i have a question that relates to my own family. i had a grandmother whose name was kate harrison and then she married and her name was thomas and she grew up i believe in missouri. there was a story that her mother had been married in the white house and i don't know if there's any truth to this, but i thought perhaps you might know if there was a wedding in the white house during benjamin harrison's term there. >> it would not be surprising but i don't know that name. local newspapers would probably carry it. both in washington and wherever they were from. that's where i would look for it if i were looking for it. but i don't -- i know in lincoln's time there were marriages in the white house. john adams' and some others but i don't know any in the harrison tenure. >> one more question and then we'll learn more about the first ladies' -- the first lady's artistic endeavors. charlotte from olympia, washington. what's your question? >> hi. i just wanted to mention i had had the fortune of going through indianapolis last fall and got to visit the harrison home and it's a beautiful house , i've been able to go to several presidential homes but they have so much actual

furniture that belongs to the harrisons and the people there are very friendly. in anyone happens to be going through indianapolis, do stop.

it's a wonderful home. >> i think they will appreciate the endorsement and they certainly were very helpful to us in allowing us to record so much video for you to see tonight. by the way, when we talked about the white house diaries, every week on our first ladies website, all of the video from the shows we've done so far are contained there and also special video you haven't seen during this program. but there's always one special future -- feature for each first lady and tonight it is

the entirety of caroline harrison's white house diaries. if you want to dig into her days, you can read it all there at c-span dwoshfirstladies. -- c-span.com/firstladies. >> let's now go to the white house for the next video. and you will learn more from the white house curator, about the white house china collection. >> when she came to the white house she was very interested in how the place worked. she came down here. this was the ground floor but it was sort of considered to be the basement because the kitchen was down here, laundry facilities, storage for food and tableware and such and she found that it was rather dirty. sort of ominous.

and she tried to like spruce it up. she went through the cabinets and found old pieces of china and then asked servants if they could tell her, does anybody remember how old this piece is? so she started the idea of trying to catalog and create a sense of what chinas were. she had a plan for putting some display cases in the state dining room. but never came to fruition. she was credited with being the initiater of the concept of a permanent china collection at the white house.

she was interested in designing china she wanted it to be american, as our first ladies had discovered there was not a strong enough porcelain manufacturing industry in america in 1891 when she started looking into new china so she decided this would go ahead and let a friend's company make the blanks but she would provide the did he dine -- the design. it wasn't a full service. she didn't try to order 12 or 15 pieces per place setting. it was designed with a shape that was pretty much the lincoln-era shape, that kind of simple -- this is a soup plate and a breakfast plate or tea plate. the eagle was very similar to what was on the lincoln china that represents the great seal of the united states. what she specifically designed was the border. there was a combination of ears of corn and golden rod which she felt represented american plants. the agricultural plants in corn. so there was dinner plates and soup plates and breakfast plates made in the blue. and there were also breakfast plates and tea plates made with the white border and then a series of cups and saucers. so there weren't all the other shapes that you might have in a state service of bowls and cream soup cups and various other things that went with it. >> so, we credit her today with

establishing this very popular spot in the white house. >> yes. and of course table service all through the years is extremely important to the white house, with the state dinners. that is the official dins that are are paid for by the state department. planned about the family more or less. but you know, eight wines were served normally at dinner. it would be reduced to three under theodore roosevelt and poured generously. there was a lot of wine and men guests would sometimes have scotch instead of wine. and then you would have numerous plates, bone dishes, all of these things that -- at each plate, serving about 60 for a state dinner in those days. >> and i just wanted to say that the cups and saucers that were ordered for the harrison china did not arrive at the white house until after caroline's death. which is very sad. she didn't get to see them.

and the china was reordered periodically in later administrations so it became a very popular service. ordered again by mckinley and roosevelt and even as late as jacklin kennedy and mrs. clinton. >> in addition to the official design that she did, she was an avid painter of china as a hobby and in fact she gave classes in this at the white house. >> right. >> which may have been a political move. she had -- she was a musician. >> politics in the white house. >> and a former lobbyists. >> she was a musician, painter and was fluent in french. and i think she spoke spanish. did she? >> i know she spoke frenchment i'm not sure about spanish. >> she had classes. >> she did have language and china painting. >> it smoothed the feggetters of some of the people -- feathers of some of the people. in washington, they kind of silenced themselves about her because they wanted to be part of those classes. they were ladies classes. >> next, a phone call from phil in north hollywood, california. >> hi there. thank you so much for the wonderful series. i'm just wonderfully addicted to all of you. you mentioned baby mcfiat first. i was kind of curious about it because i remember reading something years ago, it was like the first pop culture. now we don't even know about them. but i was wondering if could you elaborate more about your story over there about maybe mckee and how he became such a big sensation throughout america. just kind of curious if you had any more observations about him. >> thank you. we have a photograph of baby mckee, we'll show as we're learning more. >> i think he was just a cute little kid that they let the press have access to.

>> and in the cleveland administration, you know, they had baby ruth. and the candy bar was named after baby ruth. not after the baseball player, babe ruth. but at any rate, this is the period when photographic studios started taking enormous numbers of pictures of the white house, the furnishings, the occupants and particularly the children. became very, very popular. it was sort of a new pop culture kind of sensation and fixated on babe mckee. >> this is a great picture we're showing right now of a goat cart on the lawn of the white house. with the harrison

grandchildren. >> the wicker cart that the children played on the driveway on the south laub -- lawn. south lawn was kept closed since the grant administration for children to play. you see the greenhouses behind them? the whole way it was? and that goat is a special kind of goat. i forget its name but it was still very prominent goat raises that are raise that kind of goat and they do race them and show them. the harrisons were big animal people. so, they had all kinds of animals. mrs. cleveland had 29 pets but they didn't have that many pets. they had some pets and that little cart became quite famous there. actually is another one. another cart. as well as that one. >> in addition to the china, establishing the china collection, she also bought the first white house christmas tree. >> yes. >> which we now think of as very much a part of the holiday

celebration. what was it like in the harrison years? >> i don't know what it was like. she brought the christmas tree in, do you know? >> that's as much as i know and it was decorated. >> and the family quarters. >> yes. >> today it's part of the public display for people coming in. >> and the president dressed up as santa claus and played santa claus with the grandchildren and so forth. >> can we imagine a modern day president in a santa claus suit? >> now, i can. >> you can? >> i can. >> when i read that i thought, hm, photograph. >> speaking of photographs and the donkey card, i mean, the goat cart, excuse me, caroline i think was very savvy in knowing that people were going to demand photographs of the

grandchildren. and the family. so instead of just letting them descend on her she called in a pioneering woman photographer, frances benjamin johnson, and had the children photographed and it gave her and the family much more control over how the photographs were taken and where and when and how these children were pictured in the press. >> that's a good point. >> i think she was very smart about doing that. >> the which also seems very modern. >> exactly. and that was one of the things that frances cleveland had -- or did complain about in the second administration. that she was afraid people were going to kidnap the children. they found ways to get into the white house grounds and she was constantly fearful. so i think what caroline did was very smart. >> another thing she did for the white house was to bring electricity into it. and we have a photograph or an illustration rather of what's called the great illumination of the white house in 1891. how important was this to bring electricity into the mansion? >> extremely important. and the harrisons were terrified of it. they wouldn't turn it on or off. when they were ready to go to bed they'd call one of the employees to turn the lights off. >> for four years? >> never got used to it. scared to death of it. they were used to gas.

>> what's interesting is it was installed by the edison company itself. >> yes. >> so was the entire mansion illuminated at that point? or was it just in the public space? >> no, the living rooms were. the bedrooms, they threaded the old gas fixtures, some of them, and hung lightbulbs from the chand leers and that was that way until 199 -- 1892 and there were lots of those big old fillment bubbles hanging around, you know? but it was not lighted like it would be today. it would be heavy candlelight to us but it was really an innovation and considered less dangerous because the gas went off at a certain time at night, about 9:00 or 9:30 at night. if you didn't have all those turned, the gas would come out into the rooms and people weres a fixated all the time. then they would light the coal oil lights, kerosene lights, and so this was something that

wasn't as dangerous really. but it seemed dangerous to them. >> they were afraid of getting shocked i think or starting a fire. >> i think they could have been shocked if they did it wrong. >> so prior to this, when presidents burned the midnight oil, they really were. >> the gas was off. >> dan is in big timber, montana. what's your question tonight? >> my question, i heard you mentioned earlier that one of the president's children, i think his son, you said, livehood in helen? >> rulls, yes. >> did they say it in helena? >> i don't know. there's a harrison house there. i think their house still stands. >> oh, wow. i remember justice harrison just passed away a couple of years ago, was on the supreme

court for years. i wonder if he was related? >> i don't really know. i know they were devoted to montana. he had ranching interests and also copper interests. and was a very successful man. he was not going to give that up to go stay in the white house. >> besides the baby mckee and things for which they might have been celebrated, she also received criticism in the press and this came when she centraled a gift from a postmaster general wand maker who was a very successful man, a house in cape may, new jersey. can either of you tell the story of how that blew up in her face and what happened? >> well, people looked at it as if it were a bribe. it was supposed to be a little cottage and i think it had, what, 20 rooms or something? like that? at any rate, it was looked on as a bribe from wannamaker to the harrison administration. and finally the outcry got so heated that they had to pay wannamaker for it $10,000, which was a lot of money in those days. to make it look like, you know, the president said, well, we were going to buy it anyway. but it was one of those things that, like, for instance, after the civil war, a list of subscribers got together and

gave grant a home and so it was not unheard of. >> no. >> but for some reason the press spun it as if this was possibly a bribe. so they had to end up paying for the house. >> it was a very tumultuous time politically. anything they could jump -- grant got a house practically every year. he had lots of houses. fully furnished. linens and all. but he didn't get in any trouble for it. but this did. but it was a pretty hot time. it was a very tense time between the democrats and the republicans. the motivations were clearly drawn. the republicans were protectionist, the democrats were not. the republicans wanted high tariffs and the democrats did not. and so on.

and harrison was a man who was of conservative nature. in that he wanted the debts paid, he didn't want to allow -- a lot of spending, paradoxically because it was a time of very great spending really in his administration, but these were the the tensions of the time. and how cleveland got back in. >> i also read that it was a time of great grief and sadness in washington. no less than 15 deaths during a four-year period of people in the washington circle. people like associate justices on the supreme court. the anywaysy secretary and his family were burn aid live -- the navy secretary and his family were burn aid live in a house. and there were strikes in the east and miner strikes. >> a steel plant, it was a terrible thing, and 20 men were shot dead, of the protesters and the american public, while it seemed justified to the plant and carneigie and rest, it horrified the american public. they just could not believe it. and this chipped away at

harrison, he got a lot of the blame for that. >> did this contribute to the depression that you mentioned earlier? >> the depression, oh, his own depression? i think that went way back. i think it gas back to the civil war when he was a private general and though he was a little man, he was quite a leader and the whole prospect of war was horrifying to him. they'd been married about, what, five years? >> yeah. >> maybe more. >> short time. five years, i think. >> and they both were very gripped by that period. as many people were. >> and he must have witnessed horrible things on the battlefield, i would imagine. >> yes. >> before we leave this part of the lesson, a couple more questions. >> there were a lot of old curtains. furniture. different objects of furniture. not specifically. >> was it the resolute desk

brought down? >> the resolute desk, it was just recently. >> that was something that came in the heys administration. >> ok. >> and it was used in the upstairs hall. she furnished the upstairs hall from the attic. the corridor that runs the full length of the house, on the single floor, was just an old hallway with white wardrobes and things in it and one end of it was a waiting room. mrs. harrison furnished it as a room. and if you went up in the elevator, in the family quarters, you'd find that as a big sitting room and she furnished that a lot from old things she found in the attic. >> and she was trying to make more room for the family. the family quarters had become so crap cramped and overrun by the presidential offices that, you know, she was looking for

space anywhere she could find it. so she turned that hallway into a large sort of living area with, you know, defined spaces for seating and conversation. >> did caroline invite any first ladies back to the white house? >> mrs. hays had died. >> that's the one i know about, harriette lane. >> only harriette lane. so we talked about the fact that she was seen as a domestic partner. but caroline harrison was a great political partner to her husband, benjamin harrison. and next we're going to learn about that more and how it affected his political success in this visit to the harrison home in indianapolis.

>> caroline harrison was certainly an active participant in benjamin harrison's political life. i have just stepped out the door as benjamin harrison did many times to address the crowds that came to hear him speak when he was campaigning for the presidency. there were over 300,000 people who came to indianapolis. in fact, the yard became so crowded that they had to move some of the speeches downtown to the university park. she was always beside him or just inside the door preparing for guests to come inside the house. preparing to maybe give refreshments to some of the guests. preparing to greet them and shake their hands. caroline was very much devoted to benjamin harrison and the ideals of his campaign. when she planned her inaugural address, she wanted it to be designed in the united states, she wanted the silk to be spun in the united states, she wanted the dress to be designed and made in the united states. because benjamin harrison campaigned, advocated that we become an independent nation. and she was willing to do her part to see that happen.

this probably was one of caroline's favorite rooms in the house. she loved to entertain and many, many different groups came to hear benjamin harrison speak. caroline was his right-hand person. she wasn't always on the stoop with him but she was certainly behind the scenes and eager to invite people in for some hospitality. one group that came was a group that harrison greatly admired and very much encouraged and that was the black community in this area. and when he finished speaking to them, he invited them all to come into his home which they did and they shook hands with benjamin harrison and caroline harrison. as they walked through the house. this is benjamin harrison's favorite room. it's his library. and how interesting that in his place to be, we have caroline harrison's beautiful little desk. i think that in this room, probably benjamin drew a great deal of strength and comfort from having caroline close by. and maybe she didn't talk to

him about what paper he was writing or what bill he was working on, but just looking up from his desk and seeing his carrie was an encouragement to him. he knew that she was there if he needed her, he knew that she loved him and i think that caroline was the kind of wife that empowered her husband. >> so, we learned that she was very much instrumental in hosting these events that would bring the crowds and campaigned for public office essentially by staying home. >> there were two new ways of -- two different campaign techniques that came in at the end of the 19th century. the front porch campaign was one and the whistle stop was the other and they were sort of that opposite ends of the spectrum. the whistle stop, you know, you got on a train and went all around the country. this way you stayed home on the front porch campaign and greeted the neighbors and anybody who came in by train. so, this brought the wife of the candidate right into the forefront of the campaigning, without violating the norms of a woman's place in the home. so it was perfect for her as far as the type of campaign technique.

>> did caroline like campaigning or did she have safety concerns for her husband? we'd already lost two presidents as a nation. was there an increase in security for presidential candidates at this time? >> i don't think so. >> maybe the local sheriff. but even president truman had no -- when he left office, had no protection.

but one thing i'd like to add to what edie said is that it was considered inappropriate for a man to campaign for himself, to get out and make the speeches for himself. >> very different from today. >> very different from today. and the sitting on the front porch was another way of sitting in your stage. >> you're being called to the office. you're not going out and -- it's not self-promotion. they're coming to call you to be their president. >> and these are regular carve that'll values. they -- carve values. they sell postcards. >> and this will be repeated when you get to mckinley because he was very faymougs. and we'd just sit on the porch on rocking chairs and people would come by the thousands to look at them. >> jordan in pennsylvania. good evening and welcome to the conversation.

>> hi. i'm a big fan of your guys' and i know all about the presidents. i know their age and stuff. my question is, was caroline harrison older than her husband? >> yes. >> a year older. >> i was going to ask if jordan knew the answer. one year older. while we're talking about her husband, here are some of the important things that happened politically and policywise during the harrison presidency. first of all, there were a number of states that were added to the union. north dakota, south dakota, montana and washington. and in the year later, in 1890, idaho and wyoming were added as part of the united states. also, the batful of wounded knee occurred during the harrison administration. and the sherman antitrust act and the sherman silver purchase act. so two raging debates in this country were about silver, silver policy, and also the whole tariff concept which we saw that the president greatly supported.

what happened to the economy result of this? >> the economy basically the silver act led the economy into a depression. harrison lost in the election of 1892 and he was lucky because the economy crashed in the autumn of 1893. president cleveland returned to office. and mrs. harrison by that time had died. >> on twitter it was asked whether or not caroline provided any political guidance or was her place beside her husband like frances was with

griever? the answer would be yes. she was much more atuned to politics. glch, much more. i wouldn't say frances was at all. excepter to pretty and funny. this woman was very salvey of what he was doing and very interested in the position of women. she was not an activist in the street like the suffrageth ettes would be who wanted the vote later on. but she believed that the power of women was very, very great. which it was. and she believed in women getting out there and getting involved. >> and speaking of her influence, not just on her husband but also to affect change in society, here's another item from her diary. the first lady wrote, my mail, consisting of requests to use my influence for some office. >> they all have that. >> i think that was -- a part of being first lady probably since dolly madson's time. >> ms. f.d.r. had just cards and cards of letters, people wanted to get someone out of jail or kept from hanging or whatever. >> next is a call from duncan. >> my last name is -- [inaudible] and there was a wealthy family in ohio at the turn of the century last named rhinehart. did the harrisons have any experience with that family, by chance? >> i have no idea. >> we wouldn't be able to know that kind of detail. hope you can find -- >> which wish i did, yeah.

>> maybe someone in your own state could answer that. >> laura in michigan. >> hi, how are you? i'm so excited, i can't believe you're talking about the harrisons. i've lived here for about 30 years. i've had an inaugural invitation to the inaugural ball in 1889. of benjamin harrison. and i wonder if could you tell me anything about that inaugural ball. >> you don't need to write a regret anymore. but that's fascinating. the inaugural ball. it was a ferociously rainy time. >> and it was in the pension building, i believe. >> all decorated inside. >> yeah. and marine band played. the harrisons -- and they danced. they had not done so in a while. and the dancing custom was brought back to the white house where it had been missing since

harriette lane. and the marine band would play and people would dance and that was a spinoff of the inaugural. it was a very -- it was in rain storm but it was very glamorous and happy event. >> you're lucky to have that artifact. that's nice. >> more than halfway through our program and time to look back at an earlier question about this. about the couple's early life. they were both attendees of miami of ohio in oxford, ohio. tell us more about how they met. she was a native. he came from somewhere else? >> i think he was from cincinnati maybe. >> from ohio, yeah. >> he was definitely from ohio. and they met there in college.

he i think was taking a course from her father. in mathematics. and then he began to visit the harrison home under the pretense of, you know, creating a relationship with his professor but in actuality because he wanted to see more of caroline. >> after they married they moved to indianapolis. >> yes, where they were to stay the rest of their lives except for washington. >> were the politics in indianapolis or indiana at the

time easier to get into? what's the motivation at that took them to the state? >> it's a smaller place. they were from prominent families. dr. scott was a prominent educator, as you've said, and very well known. and harrison quickly rose, really, he went to the civil war, and after the civil war his law practice flourished and business law and divorce. indianapolis was the reno of the day. and lots of people went there to get a divorce and he was the best divorce lawyer in town. and his fortune increased. he made quite a bit of money as

a lawyer. >> indianapolis is the reno of its day. all you hoosiers out there, a little bit of your history. >> you don't have to leave home. >> so his civil war service, he had children by the time that the civil war had started and it was a big decision in the family as to whether or not he would serve. what did she do during the civil war? >> she worked with several women's patriotic associations. she visited hospitals, attended wounded soldiers, you know, helped with the women's loyal league and that kind of -- union, what do i want to say, patriotic organizations, the women's sanitary commissions which were helping with -- nurse wounded soldiers. so, you know, the women's side of the war issue. >> which gave her experience in organizing for causes? can was that fair to say? >> i think she was just psychologically set for that because of her upbringing. that's what her family believed in. i'm sure her father as a widower living with them in the white house encouraged everything she did in that direction. >> and contributing that to the community i think was part of their ethical background. >> they were deeply religious people. >> how did his law career lead him into politics? >> the way a law career does. there he was and he was thought well of. and simply decided, persuaded to run for office and did. he just drifted into it. >> and then he became the secretary of the republican state committee. so through that he began to make all these contacts in the state. >> and campaigned -- >> and campaigned for other republicans which then stood him in good steady in his own write as far as a candidate or possible candidate. >> and was elected to the united states senate. he first tried for governor and was unsuccessful in that bid. >> yes. >> and then was successful in his bid for the united states senate. we have another video.

we're going to return to the harrison home and learn more about caroline's interests and causes. >> this is the part of the master bedroom suite. this is just a beautiful room, a room where we love to think of caroline. this would be the sitting room where caroline might have entertained her friends. for instance, she belonged to a number of literary clubs. perhaps they came and met here and talked about the authors that they liked. caroline particularly liked dickens and especially liked shakespeare so that might have been going on in this room. i think, too, that of course this might have been the room that inspired some of her art

because it has a beautiful view out the window onto the yard. where her gardens were and where her flowers group -- grew. there's a wonderful easel which is a display easel. so when she finished a picture she might put it on that easel for her friends to admire when they came up for tea. there's a beautiful fan that was given to her by ulysses grant's daughter-in-law. and she thought it was so beautiful that she put it in a frame so that nobody could hurt it. she also would have probably done some piecework in here. she loved to do embroidery.

and i think she -- and beading. that was very popular. and so i think this would have been a room that she worked in. as well as entertained and -- entertained in. she did many community things. for instance, she was involved in the orphans' asylum. she served or their board she went to the orphan's asylum at least once a week she often made clothes or took clothes to them. she did cooking and took the cooking to the orphan asylum. she cared very much about these little children and making sure that their lives were better

than they might have been. so that was one of her causes. she also played the piano, of course, for her church. and every single sunday. so that was a talent that she put to use for other people. i think caroline had confidence but i also think she had purpose. and so she was always looking for an opportunity to use her skills, to help her fellow man. and to serve her community. >> really an interesting line, that she had purpose. and we're going to talk about how she used some of that purpose when she came to the white house. but first a couple of other questions. was it common for first ladies to go to school, let alone hold a college degree like mrs. harrison? >> that was something that was relatively new. mrs. hays was the first college graduate amongst first ladies. frances cleveland i think also graduated from college and i think grover waited to pop the question while sending flowers to her the whole time she was there. and then caroline harrison also had a college degree. so it was something that was coming into vogue for women in the later part of the century. >> they were all well educated. whether it was home education of course was the commonest of all that people had, but some of these girls as young girls went to the female academies sponsored by the churches like the baptists and methodists and they'd live there and they'd learn language, they'd learn whatever they learned there.

classics and. so they were -- some of them -- college was later idea with women. >> but very well read, all of them. >> well read, yes. >> mrs. harrison was so progressive on women's issues, what about her views on race? was she influenced at all by the abolitionist movement in her early adult years? >> oh, yes. >> very much so. >> very much so. and his whole administration fought for the african-american vote everywhere. now, of course, remember now, that would be african-american men to vote, not women. but it was for the african-american vote, he was very vocal about it. >> next is dan in omaha. hi, dan. >> hi. when you showed the office there at his personal home there, i think i saw a picture of the ninth president, the grandfather of -- >> william henry. >> yeah. did william harrison, did he earn this property himself? >> wait a minute -- >> did henry harrison own that property? >> where the house is? no, he lived in ohio. his home is in ohio and it's open to the public as well. william henry harrison's another matter. he died after 30 years in the -- 30 days in the white house. and harrison saw him as a little boy of maybe 9 years old in his coffin. that's the only time he saw him. they weren't from a very distinguished family in virginia. they lived at berkley plantation on the james river. president harrison and benjamin

harrison was the son except for the bushes, would be the only son of a -- because that was his grandfather, not his father , that was president -- grandfather and son. but the grandfather's father signed the declaration of independence. as one of the virginia signers. and berkley, you can see on the james river, open to the public, and they were distinguished virginia family and in politics for years and years and when william henry harrison went to be inaugurated, he went to berkley where he been born. i don't know whether benjamin harrison ever went but he was very conscious of being the grandson of a founder. i mean the great-grandson of a founder and the grandson of a president. >> just to summarize that, then, there have been two father-son combinations. i do not know whether benjamin is