he will take your questions about congressional oversight of the internal revenue service. you can also call in to talk with christian science monitor staff writer mark clayton. ♪ good morning, but into "washington journal," on this tuesday -- welcome to "washington journal," on this june 4. the house ways and means committee takes testimony today from conservative groups who were scrutinized by the irs. leaders testified before a congressional panel about sexual assault in the military. yesterday the white house held a conference on mental health. president obama talked about

bringing the conversation into the national spotlight. we would like to hear from you this morning about whether you think mental health programs are adequate. the numbers to call, for republicans, 202-585-3881. for democrats, 202-585-3880. for independents, 202-585-3882. you can also find us online, is a tweet by writing , or sign inc-spanwj on facebook. you come note -- you can also e span.org.journal@c- sidestepping the issue of gun violence, "the washington times" reports --

host: looking at "the washington post," "looking for a mental health dialogue." host: we are asking you this morning if you think that mental health programs are adequate. caller: good morning. i have a recent experience. i have a teenage son that i had to take into the system in

maryland. he was not as bad off as the other kids. system, as soon as they are done with you, there is no contact. they will not even return your phone calls. there is a big disconnect between when you have a teenager who needs some help but is unwilling to participate in continuing counseling and does not think they really have a problem. you cannot get your doctor to help you in anyway. to keep them in the process they have to be a threat to themselves or others. because my son is so good at school and not a threat, his grades are suffering but he is

well behaved. host: when he first sought help, when you and your family reached out, did he go to and in treatment facility? caller: there was only one option. they would not take him in treatment because he had to be a threat to himself and others. they only had the day program option where they came and picked him up. program, they only kept him for four days before they discharged him, even though i thought he needed more time. now we have to go through the whole process again and i and getting him back in there. i feel like it did not help in the first time, so that is not the best route for him. i felt like if we could just get someone to come to our home to talk to him and all of us

collectively, it would be a better option for us. you just cannot get a teenager in many cases to do what you need them to do or what they need to do for themselves. you have to get them there. you have -- they have to be willing to participate, you cannot force them. your thank you for sharing experiences. let's look at some cdc information about young adults and children who suffer from mental illness.

host: tamm, hendersonville, n.c., independent caller. and have am a veteran been associated with several of the veterans programs offered to veterans to handle these types of entities. there is a lot going on, i think, and the issues that most prevalent at the moment, the oppression, we have been waiting for over a year for your case to be reviewed and you get no help in between. those are the issues i see. as far as the general population, i do believe that this starts are in an early childhood. i think a lot of it is caused not so much by child drug use but some of it is caused by adults who are taking drugs

during pregnancy. the president's budget for fiscal year 2013 calls for mental health treatment funding. this was for veterans and active-duty service members. they include steps, like further improving the delivery of mental health care by providing enhanced access and staffing. it also provided specialized screening to identify those with some tons of depression, pst, or problems with alcohol or military sexual trauma if they have experience that and need help recovering. president obama spoke at the mental health panel yesterday, a daylong conference at the white house, about the stigma that can be associated with mental

unless. let's listen. [video clip] part asrain is a body well. there is no shame i am looking for help or seeking treatment for illnesses that help the people that we love. to many americans who struggled with mental health illnesses are still suffering in silence rather than seeking mental- health. we need to reach out to these men and women who would never hesitate to see the doctor if they had a broken arm or the flu, if they had that same attitude when it came to their mental health. post" sayswashington that the president's remarks came during the mental health conference, bringing together a elected officials and others."

host: tony, fort worth, texas, democrat. caller, how are you this morning? host: find. caller: i think the programs are adequate, but the problem is getting people to the programs. those kids in connecticut? was mentallyt he ill. the man that shot those people in colorado, they knew he was mentally ill. i think the president, and i am a democrat who voted for him twice, but the president is biting off too much. he is trying to cure the ills of the world and no president has ever done that, you know? sure, it is a tragedy. sure, it is important, but you cannot cure everything.

every time something is on the news they come up with a program to fix it and it is an impossibility, especially with the congress he is working with. nothing will be done with mental health or gun control because none of them will do anything. host: this comment on twitter -- host: linda, philadelphia, democratic line. how are you? what do you think about this topic? bipolarhe has schizophrenia. he has had problems since he was in school. they would keep him for nine days, evaluate him, put him on medication and let him go. now they take one day and then release him.

a cap on the have medicare. lifetime that he can go in. he has already been away at least 20 times. sometimes a the six days and they do not want to pay. eight days. he needs long term and he needs to be re-evaluated. it has taken months. they say that he is too high level of care. i have made 200, 300 phone calls. politicians, governors, i call everywhere. i really think they have to look at the mental illness. it starts when they're very young and have issues and the older that they get, though less help that they get, what happens is now he has drug and alcohol issues. not only are we dealing with

mental health, but it is drug and alcohol now. host: with your solution be? -- what would your solution be? caller: mental illness, they need to keep them in the long term. five or six days is not long enough. they need the cap that they can get the help for. toy need more people advocate more, so that they are not constantly going back into the hospital. my son is a person that stays on madison and stops it because he does not have anyone to check on him. he is 32. i cannot do it and say take your medicine, take your medicine. why there are so many tragedies with these young children. the teachers say it, but the parents do not take them up and say there is nothing wrong with

them and then something happens. you,a final question for given your personal perspective on this, who should pay for that treatment? the state? insurance companies? caller: i think the state should pay for it. they are paying for methadone to keep people out of jail? that is not true, they have clinics going on here, they are paying for that. it is supposed to keep them out of jail. they got in there giving it to them. i am going to say that we have over 75 methadone clinics? do not pay for that. they are making the kids junkies. a lot of them are mentally ill. cut that out, use that money. host: linda, that -- thank you. this from twitter -- the fiscal look at

year 2014 budget, president obama is calling for $1 billion for mental health programs and $460 million to go to community mental health services. we also see $3.8 billion that would go to health centers, including affordable care act funding. riga, ohio, you are next. caller: i am a family doctor here and i do a drug program here as part of chronic disease continue on. a lot of people here have stress with breakdowns of mental- health. it is not a some are mentally healthy, some are mentally sick kind of thing. 80% of people in a lifetime have a mental health problem. to the caller who thinks our mental health programs are

adequate, i have now been driven to bring you dangerously mentally ill people to go home with me. been denied care in our local area despite the fact that she had seen the mafia coming after her. she was actively delusional. the woman was in heart failure from running so hard to get away from these people. she was a danger to herself and others. she thought that the elderly man upstairs was a mafia so. i could not get her admitted. i had to put her up at my house for two days and go to the emergency room with her to get her admitted. host: why would they not admit her? caller: emergency rooms are just a big block against anyone with any kind of social security or government issued health care, i guess. i cannot imagine. we are also seeing this

delusional belief that as long as you have one board certified servency room physician -- supervising nurse practitioners and students that that qualifies your emergency room to have board certified physicians. there was an emergency room here that did that kind of approach and paid their ceo $1 million per year. i am known to be outspoken and speak it as i see it. i have been told you cannot order a cants that -- cat scans because doctors ordered to many and we will lose our bonuses. this was not obama care. this is the way it is -- one of the recent doctors around here called it mangle care. i call it mismanaged care. in order to get prescriptions for several people who are going to fall off the wagon if they do not get their prescriptions for if i psychiatric medicine,

do not take time to sit down on theseone for two hours, people under these mismanaged care systems will not get their site madd's for days unless they pay for them, which they cannot do. this is not working. the psychiatrists are so overwhelmed. they see people for five minutes, over medicate them so that they will not be a danger and they will not get sued. if anyone thinks that this is what we need, that this is adequate care, i am sorry. i think that ohio is better than surrounding states when it comes to mental health. host: let's look at a map of the prevalence of depression amongst adults 18 or older. you can see in this map the darker areas that have been more prevalent problem with depression, lighter areas, there is actually no data in those

lighter areas, bearing better, depression-wise. talking about americans who have an issue with mental illness over the course of their lifetimes. one-quarter of all adults have a mental illness, 50% will develop at least one mental illness. those are numbers from hhs. here we can see that any mental illness among adults over the last year, by age or gender, among 20%, the 18 to 25-year-old age bracket, nearly 30% met with mental illness in the past year with a decline as age rises, 26 to 49-year-old's. you and see that those with any sort of mental and this over the past year, women are higher.

men at 16%. new york.yde park, democratic line. caller: good morning. hello, c-span. longtime listener, longtime watcher. host: your question this is your comment this morning? caller: i have worked with clients in the mental-health field who have a mental health diagnosis. they tend to lack the confidence. people stigmatize, like the president said. you take care of a broken leg but with a mental illness you hesitate to go in. you do not want your co-workers or friends to know. have to stay to try to get help. host: what would you do to change that? caller: need to normalize how we do services. the national mental

health conference in the havingre/dc area will be local congressman visiting to advocate for more services and more recognition of folks out there with mental health diagnosis. host: we saw president obama speech yesterday, as you mentioned he stood -- he spoke problems mental health needing to be acknowledged. what does this daylong event mean to you? caller: the government is recognizing this problem. soldiers returning home, looking for services and help, they do not want to be stigmatized but they recognize that they need assistance. they just want to be welcomed home and want to get the services to make this feel healthy. wellness is the first thing, you try to identify that before you

go into those kinds of incidents. host: we heard from a former member of congress, patrick kennedy, yesterday, who talked about the importance of insurance companies and their role of dealing with mental illness. let's take a listen. [video clip] >> what will be essential is the public disclosure so that we know when health insurance companies are making those decisions. the president so eloquently said, treating it like you would treat a heart if there was a heart attack or cancer of someone who had cancer. that is the operative thing, equal treatment with disclosure.

companies will do all of this runaround unless they know that someone is looking at them. host: former member of congress, patrick kennedy, talking about disclosure and the role of insurance companies on the issue of mental illness. our next caller is rick, san diego, independent line. caller: good morning. host: morning. caller: i watched your coverage on the conference for mental illness and it really inspired me to take part in a local program here. i am going to go down to my local v.a. and volunteer for the wounded warrior brothers. host: what do you hope to achieve by that? loser: well, i hope not to

another one. a friend of mine that i served with in the navy was over- medicated and in full view of the naval hospital he wandered on to the interstate 5 freeway and died of blunt force trauma from the cars, the oncoming traffic. they just ran over and. host: i am so sorry to hear that. as you look at the mental health programs out there, do you view them as adequate? caller: they are not adequate, that is why it is up to us as fellow veterans to step up. you know, to be there for them. host: thank you for your call. anita, new jersey, democratic line. i actually work in the field of mental health.

that one of the greatest barriers in society is the mental health model, individuals are under huge umbrellas of different experiences, and they are in a box. our society can move to a model seeellness that does not this and integrate that in an early way starting in childhood, starting in a school community with many of the people who fit into boxes. the percentage of people receiving support will deteriorated rapidly in isolation.

if a person intervened in an early way and attention was not brought, we all have learning needs regarding coping with stress and being able to express and identify, label our emotions, interacting with people in ways that are pro- social. i know that that is a tall order, and we believe professionals are doing a decent job in asking these questions, but it is a huge problem and i feel like the solution is standing in the way of that problem because of a person is identified as having a problem or something wrong with them, then they are not going to seek out services.

that earlier we learned according to health and chirp -- health and human services, one- quarter of all americans have a mental illness. anita brought up the difference between a mental illness and a serious mental illness. here we see different statistics. and adults, 5%. those in the 18 to 25 year-old age bracket, 7.5%. it goes down from 26, older than 50, 30%. more women than men. the percentage of women with a serious mental illness in the past year, men are 3.4%. dallas, texas, independent line. caller: i think that the statistics that you just read about males, 18 to 24, gunmen, that is very striking. the common thread with all of these large shooting incidence''

been issuesar have of mental illness among men in the age groups. host: we saw members of congress speak out about this same issue. yesterday it was part of the white house summit. what will your solutions be? -- would your solutions be? caller, i am not a psychologist or expert. host: do you see that programs are adequate in some ways, adequate in others? caller: the issues that were raised earlier about wounded what bridget wounded warriors, and what happens when they

return home, the other place to see this is these mass shootings and people falling through the cracks. we have a mental health problem in this country and we are not doing -- dealing with it in the appropriate way. what is the appropriate way? that is for people smarter than me. host: kathleen sebelius spoke yesterday at the conference. she talked about a recent survey about what other americans think about mental health. [video clip] >> here is what the recent public attitude survey shows. 38% of americans say they are unwilling to be friends with someone having mental health difficulties. have a unwilling to person with schizophrenia as a close co-worker. 58% said they are unwilling to

have a person with depression marry into their families. i can guarantee you that some of that is because they have no idea that the person sitting next to them or across the hall, the neighbor or their friends, they think they know what this looks like and they do not. that is part of what we are talking about trying to change. host: if you would like to see more about his mental health conference, you can go to our video library. yesterday's proceedings at the white house are archived there. let's look at some other stories in the news. at the top of the show we mentioned, the flags at the capitol at half staff to honor senator frank lavin byrd, the oldest u.s. senator presently serving, he died yesterday.

host: you can see some stories in other newspapers. this headline "partisan fight." host: we also see some speculation about who might take his place. the washington times" says

one of the options is tom king jr., son of a former governor." we will see more speculation in the coming days about who will take that seat. "the new york times" declares this as placing "chris christie in a difficult spot." another front page story from "usa today," "who killed financial reform"? court, at the supreme they are coming out with their decisions over the next few weeks as they wrap up their term in june. law-enforcement civil liberties advocates are discussing a ruling that came down yesterday letting police collected dna from people arrested for serious , helping to solve cold cases at the risk of civil liberties.

host: we saw that covered in other newspapers, including "the baltimore sun." this comes from a maryland case. stories,ouple of other soldier motives scrutinized in the wikileaks case. "bradley manning went on trial yesterday it under charges that he aided the enemy by transferring classified documents to a website on public display." international news, "increasing in thety on both sides

syrian conflict." host: as we prepare to see president obama meet with the president of china next week, this deadly fire on the front page story of "the washington journal." "industrial accident in china claim more than 70,000 lives each year." we are also watching the hill this -- today. it will be taking up irs spending on employee conferences. you can find out more about it

behind on our website and we will be talking about it with our guests later this morning. we are talking about mental health programs and whether they are adequate. martin? caller: in junior high school and high-school, health was a required subject. it still is. alcohol and drugs were always discussed, but mental health never was. i think it should be brought into the health subjects that is required in high-school to make people at a younger age more aware of the needs of their family members. cisco,owrie, seven california, independent. , i am: disabled in

surprised at how little outreach there is from the program that i was sent in the mail. your mental health is at risk. you do not have services usually available for people who are addicts or homeless, but there is this huge community of people who are seniors and adults not get at home who do any sort of community outreach. this could be resolved by putting information into -- they have the addresses of the people with disabilities in this country. they do not do a thing to support.

but that iscome, not useful in the community. be asked to participate and supported in these mental health programs. host: visa some comments from facebook. host: you can join the conversation on our facebook page. we have a poll asking directly if you think that services for mental health are adequate. so far many more people are saying no rather than saying yes. dave, pennsylvania, go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i do not know if this is an issue now or a problem later on

legalizing drugs in certain states. maybe for the present people it is not harmful, but for the offspring would be? i do not know if they're looking at this as a problem, future problem, or problem now. host of this from twitter -- -- host: this message from twitter -- host: speaking of the definition, the term refers collectively to "all diagnosable mental disorders, alterations in thinking, mood, behavior as associated with the stress -- distress, personal and social job impairment, leading to premature death." the most common is anxiety and mood disorders. lois, tulsa, okla., hello.

retired now. i did work in the mental health field in many capacities. i worked with veterans on posttraumatic stress. i have been listening and everything people have commented on is very true. but one of the things that was , she developedg early adult onset bipolar disorder and a very definitely is a chemical imbalance and has nothing to do with how someone has been. -- raise. of course there is nature and nurture, but she became a totally different person when she started her cycle. that is one of the reasons there are more women, because of a chemical disorder. but above and beyond that let me just say one of the things i have seen here, oklahoma is one

of the worst funded for education that i have seen for all my life. education in mental-health and how mental health disabilities with treatment -- but the positive side, what i have seen, where my daughter lives now, and she loves that, she has tried living independently, people have to be watched. they do not have families that watch them to see their taking their medications. she has tried to be on her own, having a mother in the find her everyo , i think thatble where she is now is one of the best. solution for people with

severe mental health and chemical imbalances, of course people that have anxiety disorders, or young people, but is bulk solution for of the bim people who are bipolar, schizophrenic, because they are not in reality if they are not taking their methods. some institutions or whatever, they medicate them too much because there lamy's and do not have a life. but one of the things they did right here in oklahoma, they built a big apartment that looks like a hotel. and they have security. mental health workers. it is not an institution, so there is not a -- i guess a stigma, where people feel like they're just institutionalized. it is under the department of mental is health. there was a big waiting list to get in here. there is a combination of

people. of course veterans have priority with post-traumatic stress. one of the things that has really worked well and, like that said, my daughter says she feels like she is not alone. other people have similar mental health problems. they have a psychiatrist that comes in their and a social worker that comes in there. in short, they are concentrated not with the stigma of a mental institution, but if they had more of these -- there are like three stories? feel like theyot are being institutionalized. caller: no, but they have freedom and security there. people coming in to take advantage of them? you have to have a code to get up to yours.

host: thank you for your story. this twitter -- host: donna shares on twitter -- host: bob, pa., independent, go ahead. caller: yes, this is a tough story for me to tell, but i am married into a family of very intelligent people, but they have a long history of found out later after i was married of severe depression. one was the president of a large corporation. he committed suicide. my wife's cousins, he had two cousins that repeatedly had to be institutionalized. now, they recovered somewhat, but not to a completely normal life.

helpedhat could have them? as we look at these mental health programs, what could have helped them more? caller: 25 years ago my youngest son was iraq. he went to eugenia. the last of five institutions. at that time the longest stay with 30 days. they said 30 days in your cured. now these same people are facing five day cures. they do not work. it is a revolving door, just like the other woman said. there was more help back than for my first son. my second son is a kind person and nice person but cannot function in society and deals with severe depression. apart but it needs to be told. at the time when things were level theythe state

would stop the laws or delay them if they were going to take away care from people that did not have the money for mental health. and i hates like -- to pick on republicans, i was one for 40 years but i got disgusted with it. it seemed like the party was changing from fiscally responsible but humanitarian concern to one that was just money, money, and power. i became a democrat, hoping for change. did not get the change of wanted. [laughter] hasthe mental health system seriously deteriorated. it is making a call. i wonder what we have to do to

make him do it. he wants said when he was running for election -- make me do it. for people to raise up their voices and let him know, please, obama, we need help. my family desperately needs help. host: we have a tweet from edwin -- host: "the washington post" has a front-page story today about baby boomers and suicide rates. they are digging into this story on the front page today. coming up next on "the washington journal," we will talk with two members of congress. first up, christopher met -- christopher smith, republican of new jersey. we will be talking with him

about foreign affairs issues, including syria. later on, democratic congressman john morrison and the democratic ways and means committee. senator frank lautenberg, 89, new jersey senator, passed away yesterday. a see this obituary peace, world war ii veteran and someone who fought for a variety of democratic-led issues. his colleagues in the senate paid tribute to him on the floor. let's listen to senator melendez and his comments. [video clip] he was mr.l, transportation. he believed in having the best and safest transportation in the

world. when it comes to air travel he was way ahead of his time when it came to safety. it was frank lautenberg that ended the dangers of smoking on airlines so that none of us would be subjected to sitting in a smoke-filled aircraft. amtrakwhen i took the from new york to union station -- from here to union station, i remember how many times he came to this floor and fought for american railways and how much he believed in the importance of rail travel and what it meant to keeping those systems competitive. through all of those accomplishments, it would still not adequate the effect the gift of governing he gave this nation and the 9000 votes he cast in this chamber. maybe not all of them made the headlines, but they made a difference for every american family.

with each of those votes, frank lautenberg helped to shape the history of america. not just for his time, but for all generations to come. when i think of frank, i also looked back to the fact that he was a part of that british generation, world war ii, but i think he may have left us too soon at the age of 89, because he never missed a beat. he lived in a moment. i remember about three years ago he and his wife, bonnie, celebrated his 86th birthday in january in what some might call an unusual way. he wanted to spend his birthday with his favorite singer. gaga, sofan of lady they went to radio city music hall to see her monsters baltimore.

tour. frankball was not yesterday's news. he lived in a moment. but that moment is gone now. and we're lucky to have shared that moment with him. it goes by too quickly, but the memories last forever. his accomplishments will last forever and touch the lives of people well beyond his death. our image of what it means to and theno live, to earn give something back will never be forgotten. 's is in frank lautenberg legacy to the people of this nation and my home state. >> "washington journal" continues. host: congressman christopher smith is our guest. republican from new jersey, he served in the foreign affairs

committee and as chairman of the commit -- committee for human rights. president obama meets with the president of china later this week. what are your expectations? guest: the announced agenda is the focus on security and economic issues. yesterday i chaired a hearing on the 24th anniversary of the horrific events of the tannin square massacre, which continued to this day. the repression has only gotten worse over the years. i hope is that the president will be robust in his efforts to get political prisoners released, including the nobel peace -- peace prize winner, like the president receive the coveted prize, languishing in prison even today. these unbelievably brave,

courageous, the best and brightest of china, the day sitting in prisons, being tortured, abuse, it is unspeakable. the president needs to raise those specific cases in a polite and diplomatic way, demanding their release. these are universal human rights that china has conceded to. all of these important covenants that they are refuting. part of a asked yesterday in the hearing is how can we trust a country with an unelected dictatorship? on can we trust them security and economic issues if they so flagrantly violates fundamental human rights as they do every day of the week? seeing the papers reflecting on the anniversary of tenements where.

tian ndaman square -- anmen square. the flag all remember in the square, the people speaking out so boldly, unfortunately hunted down after the bayonet and the tanks rolled in. point in theing wrong direction toward more repression, more human rights abuse, more torture. in the eastern bloc countries, the warsaw pact nations, it could have been a movement towards democracy, but it became a profound u-turn for even more repressive government by the current administration.

host: what is the muscle behind the president's message? how is capitalism influence in china today? guest: when bill clinton administered trade, and no one applauded the democratic president more than i do, because of the way president bush was handling the issue, he himself linked human rights on a friday afternoon -- go to c-span archives, you can see my press conference with nancy pelosi. thatre utterly shocked serious and substantial progress in a number of categories where there was progression, the president took his executive

order and went like this, ripped it right in half. that was a game changer in my opinion. when the chinese dictatorship took the measure and said the office trump's human-rights. i believe that we need strong and serious engagement, but at the core we have to say -- how you treat or mystery or citizens matters to us. we stand with the oppressed, not the oppressors. frank wolf and i had a face-to- face in china. we raise human-rights issues. many of them are still there. incensed that these congressmen, walter smith, had the audacity to raise human-

rights. we need to do that every time, everywhere. the president has a bully pulpit unlike anyone else to raise these issues and look the chinese president in the eye and say -- let [indiscernible] go and be free. if he does not, it will be missed opportunity. why should americans care about this? guest: a great question. we are, our brothers and sisters are a lot of nation -- are a nation of laws and immigrants. we support religious freedom and other fundamental human rights. we are the ones who pushed so aggressively on human rights. we have done it for many years. even though we had our own problems with human rights abuses towards africa meet --

african-americans, we rectified it. especially as a nation of allgrants, we care about nations. it all races, colors, and creeds, i believe we are frankly in a unique position to speak with a consistent and even predictable voice to dictatorships to treat your people with respect. frankly, for me much of what i a my faith.ed by i am a catholic. i believe we are our brother and sister's keeper. because of that, whether one has faith or not, a human-rights are for everyone or for no one. unfortunately in places like china, human rights and not respected. the rule of law is a sham.

host: what is our relationship with china? how do you define it? guest: i think they are competing global giant, a colossus, if you will. was justse president in latin america providing loans. they have become an economic powerhouse. of years ago i fired a complaint as a trade representative that china was committing unfair trading practices against the american workers because they were paying their people 10 cents to 50 cents per hour. there were no regulations. there was a piece in "the wall street journal" about how many accidents there were because the safeguards were not there. they have huge numbers of people legs and hands

are maimed because they do not have those kinds of protections. you do whatever the employer tells you to do and, believe it or not, i am one of the most egregious violations of women's rights, the enforcement of the one child per couple policy, making brothers and sisters illegal, it is actually carried out at the factory level. the monitor women's menstrual cycles to make sure that woman does not have a pregnancy without explicit government authorization. talk about a violation of women's rights and freedoms. there is no comparison anywhere in the world to what is going on in china. so, we are friends with the chinese people. the government, frankly, is a dictatorship. people like myself to not

believe in an engagement? i have applied for a visa to go to china. i have applied and i have been denied. i want to talk to the leadership about issues of importance but i have been precluded that opportunity because they do if you would like to join the conversation, here are the numbers to call. republicans (202) 737-0002 democrats (202) 737-0001 independent (202) 628-0205 guest: he spent a number of years in the gulags. an intellectual. that everything

now by the common dictatorship and that government are pushing economic growth. a culture of corruption in order to achieve those things. labor force ine every way possible to undercut in competitors worldwide order to keep themselves afloat. if you thought traded more it would matriculate into a democracy. that has proven to be unmitigated nonsense. it has not happened. one of our witnesses said may this that others on time.

the increased production. they did at the expense of human rights and freedom. learned thatt has horrible lesson. if we do not speak out, who will? is contrary to conventional wisdom. strongerwe trade, the the communist dictatorship becomes. there is also another consequential damage, collateral. we're seeing increased influence of the chinese government throughout latin america and i've are cap, especially in the bad -- and in africa, especially in the bad export model. they are fleecing africa of its oil. maybe they provide a bridge. it is a very disproportionate equation.

the africans lose but they are very desperate. we ought to be doing more. there also best friends with bosch year -- bashir. fors directly responsible genocide in darfur for and south sudan. they are close to dictatorships in africa. we are pushing human rights throughout africa. it is a bipartisan effort. we are pushing the whole idea of good governance and transparency. all a goal. you never get there. is cominge government in with a counter strategy which is completely contrary or those principles. it is not just within the confines of china. their influence is having a

profoundly negative affect. >> he is in his seventh term. -- 17 term. he represents the fourth district. good morning. thank you for taking my call. arena engineer. prior i worked in the construction engineer. from the problem of building seven or nine in freefall that exposes we bring it out. to know what you are not listening to the thousands of architects. 911.ing seven question has been asked many times. i do believe there have been a number of efforts to investigate on the commission.

looked at the terrible aspects of 9/11. in number my constituents were killed or had family members that were killed. that was a prime mover behind that legislation. they look at virtually every aspect of it. your question needs further answer. how do you get that? guest: maybe more questions from the part of think tanks. the 9/11 investigation was one of the most comprehensive that i have ever seen. governor cain and lee hamilton

put together a series of hearings. they had a very good staff. that report, which was several inches thick, and i have read we are safer. we were not safe. not safe.er but much more needs to be done to mitigate the threats from al qaeda and others who wish us ill. the other aspects of it, i am lyt sure how much we real need to know. the building capabilities, the architect surure.

there were probably corners that were cut. host: in the construction? guest: in the construction. people were shocked how quickly it imploded. host: do you have any doubt that the cause? guest: without a doubt. i was in bethlehem. i spoke to a group of students who actually blamed it on the israelis which is the insurethef the absurd. they said no jews died. i said there were people of every faith. i know widows whose husbands died. it was an act of terrorism. it was the likes we have not seen since pearl harbor in terms of magnitude. there is no doubt who the culprits were. always be conspiracy theories about everything including that.

we have done a good job. chris smith is from new jersey's fourth the district. his constituents were killed in the world trade center attack. his region include some of the jersey shore as well, hamilton, 17 term, first elected back in 1980. turning to syria, the united nation investigators are seeing increased fertility on both sides of the conflict. what do we do with this information? aest: secretary kerry made very candid and frank statement when he said we were late to the peace efforts in syria. this has been going on for over two years. this is not just burst onto the scene within the last couple of months. it has been exacerbated. it has gotten worse. as has been going on for two

solid years. , there are serious questions about the component parts of that efforts. whether or not al qaeda and like-minded individuals are in that efforts. just this week the new armed bill was unleashed. it does not endorse the idea of weaponry to the pre-syrian army. also a man who has committed atrocities, has killed innocent people. it would appear he is used weapons of mass destruction. originally that is a bright line for the president. i am not sure where he is now. the division has become so

, theund even to the hamas irani and actually cut off aid to hamas. there is an emerging and deeper potential conflict coming out between the shia and sunni. caught in the middle of all of this, besides innocent muslims, are the innocent christians. the over 2 million christians in syria. i am planning a hearing for mid- june on the syrian christians and where they stand. they are being slaughtered. where has been the outcry in the united states or anywhere else on their behalf? there are deep concerns about this. our hope is that needs to be more effort in peacemaking.

the russians and americans are talking about a conference. maybe that will yield some fruit. the hatred and animosity with iranian and hezbollah support is ominous. host: let's hear from jay. caller: good morning. we applaud you for your great work, especially understanding the value of human rights. my question is that i want to aware of there situation in gambia, the violation of human rights that is happening?

offer to thean you gambians to the violation of human rights? i am not downplaying serious of course. it is a very bad situation for the gambians. are facinggambians huge challenges from a number of quarters. there has been a regularization -- radicalization. -- le else about and a number of these very aggressive and

terrorist organizations are .reaking out all over africa churches are being targeted. christians are being targeted and slaughtered. the ambience are facing human rights abuses that need to be reined in. the community must do much more. this never used to do anything except about apartheid which they certainly ought to have done. they never seem to speak about the human rights abuses. they are doing much more to speak out again. that arerian regimes attacking their own people. the chinese influence is not a good thing. they are coming with huge amount of money courtesy of u.s. trade relationship. the trade relationship with

china, in 2012 we had $315 billion worth of trade deficit. it is expected to exceed 350 billion dollars in 2013. their violations of intellectual property rights. ripping off copyright and patents of the u.s. companies. we lose about 48 billion dollars per year as they take this. even in africa i had a hearing on nigeria about economic issues. some of our witnesses talked about how u.s. products are being showing in nigeria that look like the same as the american products but they are counterfeit. they are being made in china and sent in. there has been a total of respect to the world law.

that is now affecting africa. there is this flood of cheap imitations. that is concerned with drugs. many drugs coming from china raise questions about their authenticity. is it what you think it is russian mark the packaging looks identical. get is?you the packaging looks identical. host: kerry, republican. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i appreciate your work in cozumekosovo. i want to thank you for all of your service. onld you please update me our camp? was i getting back to nato?

influencer kosovo now? i just what your take on how that whole area and influence in china is trying to build andnos in prostitution other things. kosovo is not on the front burner. china is trying to exploit every opportunity. what were you doing there? trying to build human rights and help with the

constitution. guest: this is still an emergent success story. they are independent. we recognize them as we should. we still do not recognize ovo.mel -- kos abou there's always been a huge separation between us and russia on kosovo independence. under continues to suffer put arnance model that wa turning point on mobile should the belligerence.

they were aggressive as we all know. they still cannot come out of the model of governance which is not a true democracy. they deserve and want it. reform.d constitution the serbia has made huge process -- progress in human rights. same goes for croatia of course. what was a killing field in -- serevo, all of these people must are to, believing that was the way to get protection behind the un flag. they have over 8000 muslim men who were slaughtered in july

back in the mid-90's. i have been back there. i held hearings about it as it was happening. we have come a long way from that terrible bloodletting that .ccurred in the field kosovo hung in the balance. theill raise issues about importance of protecting serbians who live in kosovo and protecting their rights. you should have your fundamental rights protected. for many years i was concerned how intimate the international community was in protecting churches who are orthodox that were being desecrated and

destroyed as well as seminary. we do not do enough to protect the u.s. orthodox churches from distraction. i do believe kosovo continues to emerge as a true success story. we will always have some problems but i think they are doing very well. on the u.s. has been on china but russia is becoming a force to reckon with again. shall we be worried? guest: great question. i think we should be. the first human rights trip i took was in 1982 on behalf of soviet jews to moscow. jewst with all these great and christians who are being incarcerated and persecuted because of their faith. in 1989all euphoric when the berlin wall and russia went from a dictatorship to an

emerging democracy. .he pendulum has gone back there are reasons for concern that we need to be working closer with russia, not at a distance. to go toring the break russia to talk about trafficking. russia has a huge problem. many russian women are sold by commodities throughout the world. they are exploited. i was hoping to go there but i was denied a visa by russians. i think that is a mistake on their part. we need to work with the russians and work very closely

with them even though we have differences. a log denied visas to those men and women who are involved in persecuting metaphysically who was killed. barest minimum. this is a very calibrated response. you are doing that torture. you cannot come to the united states. the same thing with an american in bolivia today in a prison. he is a jewish man who has had his farm taken, rights violated, all of his assets seized. prison and months in

is still under house arrest. he has done no wrong. the people who wanted his asset and wanted to rip them off and he did a cannot the united states and join his wife and others. i introduced the bill called "jacob's law" and i will push hard for its enactment. anyone who violates the due process of americans anywhere in the world, their ability to come to the u.s. or send their families to disney world or college is forfeited because they are mistreating americans in country. than 27's case, more

individuals including prosecutors have now been arrested themselves for this corruption and for abusing jacob all strike are -- jacob ostrike. we had sean penn testify. jacobn hands and we said is an innocent man suffering in bolivia. he needs to be freed. morale is means to step in and releases american. why would any american want to do business in bolivia? officials can take your business and then throw you into jail with no charges whatsoever. this law would apply globally. it would use a decent sanction as a means to at least hold into account some of those who commit these crimes. guest: chris smith, republican of new jersey.

he is in the fourth district. he serves as special representative on human trafficking. he also is the ranking republican on foreign affairs overall. he chairs the subcommittee on global human rights. he also chairs the subcommittee on africa global health. independent, hello. caller: i just have a question. the representative is so gung ho about human rights in china, we really can not affect anything that the chinese. we might be able to affect american corporations that go over there and make a ton of money. does the representative have a position on that? host: great question. for years i pushed a host of conduct for corporation and

china that they should expect human rights and the people that work there. i chaired a hearing very recently. practicesat abusive by corporations including apple and the fact that many of those factories that are creating these products that end up on tores are made with slave labor or people who are being exploited. we do have a law that is very old. there is inability to put an import ban on any project that has been made with gulag labor. brought an action

investigation on the unfair trading practices that are soming to china by corporation as well as americans who are ductsg their project manufactured there. not only people being paid $.50 numbers ofth huge occupational hazards. there's also a growing issue [inaudible] they also enforce the brutal one policy on employees. we have an opportunity under both administrations especially by bill clinton. had we been serious about human rights including labor rights, we would have seen on the

margins a movement toward respect for human rights in china. we abandon it. to this day. hillary clinton on her first trip to beijing said i'm not going to allow human rights to interfere with global climate change. that sends a message to every religious believers was being persecuted, every woman who is suffering under the tyranny of the one child policy that we are putting your size and maybe we will get to you later. -- that we will put you aside and maybe we will get to you later. the whole tournament square continues in china.

to raise human rights in a profoundly important dialogue where they talk about individual dissidents and asked for relief. the most obvious is the nobel peace rider writer who nominated him. there is a worldwide movement. when there was an empty chair. they would not allow him to leave prison to get his nobel peace prize. our president should be raising this. we can do business. we can work with you. you have to speak in the direction of human rights. host: sommer says we owe china too much money. e some other folks saying

the u.s. should take care of its own first. guest: human rights start at home. we do have institutions. we have a government that works on that. since we are a global village and we work in an interconnected way, we ought to be talking about and insisting that we are not in any way in a blink human rights abuse anywhere in the world. china holdsissue, over one dollars trillion of the united states. they also rely very heavily on maintaining their economy on exporting. we have real leverage. tothey do not have access our markets, there is no way the dictatorship survives. before we let you go, it

your state of lost it senior center yesterday, frank lautenberg. saying itis christie is a tricky test. he has to decide who to put in that spot. what do you think he should do? should he appoint a democrat or republican? does he listen to the will of the people? guest: i think we need to be mourning the passing of senator frank lautenberg. any talk about who gets picked or the seat have to be put aside during this morning. host: would you attend a service? guest: yes. host: i did work very closely on a number of issues. anti-semitism. it is an issue i've worked on my entire career. so did he.

any time you fly an airplane and it is smoke-free and the flight attendants will tell you how glad they are, it is because of legislation that was offered by sinister about berg to take smoking off the aircraft -- senator frank lautenberg to take smoking off the aircraft because of the hazards. he was a leader. host: representative chris smith, republican of new jersey, thank you so much. guest: thank you very much. host: coming up we will speak with a democratic member of congress. he will talk about the scrutiny of the irs. clayton joins us show how terror watchlist are put together. >> randy cunningham will be

release from pedro presented a -- from federal prison today. he has received one of the longest prison system is ever given amber of congress. this is for accepting $2.4 million in rides from defense contractors. this was cut by 392 days for good behavior. appointees are using secret government e-mail accounts. a reviewccording to by the associated press which says that at least one cabinet secretary also uses that practice. some would argue it is necessary to prevent official inboxes from being overwhelmed with unwanted messages. this is the freedom of information act. this morning, the commerce department releases this. this has slowed exports in recent months.

europe is mired in recession. eight percent over the first three months of the year. some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> caroline harrison was an active participant in benjamin harrison's elliptical life. >> i had just stepped out of the door to address the crowds of that came to hear him speak when he was campaigning for the presidency. devoted to theh ideals of his campaign. planter and not euro address, she wanted it to the made in the united states her inaugural address, she wanted it to be made in the united states. she advocated that we become an independent nation.

do her parting to to see that happen. >> this was probably one of her favorite rooms in the house. she loved to entertain. toy different groups came hear benjamin harrison speak. one group that came was a group that harrison greatly admired and encouraged. that was the black community in this area. when he finished speaking to them, he invited them all to come into his home, which they did, and they shook hands with engine men and caroline harrison they walked through the house. is his favorite room. it is his library. how interesting that in his place to be we have caroline harrison's beautiful little desk. in this room probably benjamin drew a great deal of strength and comfort from having caroline close by.

maybe she did not talk to him about what paper he was writing or what bills he was working on. just looking up from his desk her was an encouragement to him. on carolineation harrison is available on our website www.c-span.org /firstladies. host: john larson is our guest, democrat of netiquette. also a committee member of the ways and means committee. your committee tackles the questions of the scrutiny the irs gate to conservative groups. you will be hearing from most of the groups that were targeted. why listen to them? irs targeted more than conservative groups. no matter who they targeted, it was wrong.

it is egregious. i was happy we move swiftly to make sure there was a public hearing on this. i commend both david kamp and sandy levin for joining in a nonpartisan way and saying no matter who is controlling the irs, it is egregious that you would target them for their political beliefs, whether they aref progresses or tea party. it is flat out wrong. . think this can be constructed there is already movement that has been taken place. be lerner is going to stepping down. that was a good move. like all issues, this deserves the euro oversight of the united

states congress. it needs toless, be assured that we're going to continue to to focus on the public trust. else, what i hope we do is we're able able to pivot to something the public is truly leaning for. that is to get back to work. host: let's take a look at what werfel had to say. let's listen to him. [video clip] >> i have reached an inescapable conclusion. the use of certain political labels to determine how applications would be handled resulted in applications being inappropriately singled out for additional scrutiny. moreover, it was a fundamental failure by management to

andent the treatments ensure that it was halted once management became aware. these have undermined it the public's trust and the ability to administer the tax laws and a fair and impartial manner. they must be correct it. the agency stands ready to confront the problems that occurred, hold accountable those who acted inappropriately and permit may fix these problems so that such missteps to not occur again. guest: i thought he said it distinctly and clearly. i do believe they are taking the steps that they need. hopefully we can further those goals and expedite a process that he just laid out. that is precisely what needs to be done.

there is large bipartisan support and making sure that happens. not we fear is that we do want this to turn into some kind of partisan. you should say why congress is not popular. there are so many incredible civil servants who work on behalf of of the irs and other agencies. where there is inappropriate action, and clearly this was, we ought to take swift action and corrected the problem. i think that is a process underway. they heartening to see are doing it in a nonpartisan basis. could we now shift to job creation and dealing with our health care crisis, both of which can offer other opportunities for us to work together in a nonpartisan fashion. when i go home, that is what people say to me. when are you going to get us

back to work? the house ways and means committee today will look at these groups that were targeted for scrutiny. we will have that on our website. we will be streaming it live. it looks like we have an ipad playing. we will have it streaming for you and also here. this is the modern technology. us.ipad startined talking to let's look at these headlines. can the viru do you see this coming down the pike? guest: let me commend chairman camp and ranking member levin for focusing on having working groups in getting back to what is commonly referred to as "regular order."

the is a misnomer here in united states congress. this is my 15th year in congress. we have yet to complete a full year in regular order. we either end up with a bill.uing resolution or a forefathershow are intended the system to work. debra locates it to a minor role. -- it relocated to a minor role. would have an opportunity to look at the concerns as it relates to tax reform. the president has artie come out and said he would like to see the rate go from 35 to 28. we like incentivizing

manufacturing. we like the concept of making it in america. we like the ideas and making sure that we are incentivizing the private sector to make things. we know that it is 4-1 and we can put more people back to work. as the president said, it has to be balanced. they have come up with a proposal and want to be revenue seeral but it is hard to us how we would get there without some sort of balance on the tax side. are talking about subsidies essentially that go to the oil companies, they go to the farm industry, etc. i am not talking about individual or personal taxes. the subsidies that exist out there. i think there is common ground that can be found here. i am hopeful that takes place.

he ways and means committee has not yet taken up a tax proposal. the reason is pretty clear. if you take up a tax proposal and you send it to the senate, the senate could strip that bill and use it for its own proposal. is the situation we find ourselves in. hopefully, this'll be the therel turerm, will be an opportunity for parties to come together. that is what this represents. it represents an opportunity for us to come together on behalf of the american people and do something constructive that will send a signal to the rest of the world that we are prepared to do work. just by putting america back to work that we can reduce the deficit by a

third. if we drop the unemployment rate ournder six percent, -- 6%, unemployment has dropped a third. by going after healthcare costs, there is a unique occur out thee that does not involve raising taxes but allows us taking the 18% of gdp we spend on health along withrking reports by more than seven s and others who said there is an enormous amount of money in that system. how about congress coming together and working on this, taking the best of the public health system and the best of the private sector, combining them with innovation, technology, the projects going on right now and build the best program in the world.

we currently have a system that if democrats had gotten their way we will have a system that will be single-payer or medicare for law. we put in place a system that was a heritage foundation model piloted successfully by a republican governor in a democratic state who ended up being their candidate for president of the united states. there is more than ample room for us to agree. let's agree to take the best of public health and all the public initiatives that are going on and the best in the or and combined them. can't we sit down and work together on those things incident this rate? that is what the americans want to see. i am proud americans have to shut up ideas on how to get us there. host: let's go to the phones. democrat, connecticut.

i have two questions in relation to the scandal. the first is recordable -- rhetorical. how stupid do you think the american people are? can you name me any nonconservative groups that were targeted? do you mean by asking how stupid do you think the american people are? this is notously, just a lack of communication. s ins not low worker cincinnati. people do not want to talk. they need their jobs. it is hard to enumerate. most people do see through that ofs is not a sincere effort bipartisanship. this is a scandal. i think this is a sincere

effort at bipartisanship. andhave both david kamp sandy levin. everybody is outraged. matter whoegious no it happens too. i know the american people are not. you when any agency, whether it be the irs or pentagon or whoever the agency is, when they go over bounds and operate outside their parameters, they should be called before the united states congress. the people of the united states will demand that as well. david kamp and sandy levin for calling for these hearings. i hope they will be productive. it sounds like it listening to the tape that we're making

headway along the specific lines. people that were involved in the wrongdoing should be let go. it is that simple. congress has a responsibility to make sure we do this oversight. i will say it is heartening -- disheartening to see it is being done in a nonpartisan way. i caution when there is a witchhunt when you go after people's individual character. then i do not think that will be bipartisan. there are many good public servants out there who were both for the iressa and in many of our federal agencies. we do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. it does demand the full skirt knee randall is a democrat. >> is he familiar with the

--icrous with theose seminars millions of dollars. i did some more investigation. aret of the questions pursuing these forms and beings with the sincerity of these actually being big groups that were not stating their political interest. why could you not take the send an agent to those people directly? they spent two years on an group.ortion why can you not send an agents there?

guest: you sound like a commonsense person. no matter how you look at it, it is egregious. it seems as though there was a far more practical way of getting at this. let's not forget also the underpinnings of all of this. this is important for the listeners. irs and bush appointed commissioners the focus in this area? primarily because that is the root of the problem. in an effort to root out the money, the excessive amount of money in politics today, completely legally but under (4), the growth has

been exponential. there was more than smoke that have been created there. the way they went about it was totally wrong and egregious. no one should ever be singled out. let's not kid ourselves about the excessive amount of money that is being spent. have given people $200 to the obama and romney campaign were eclipsed by a mere 32 donors who gave over $300 million. this should be a system where the voice of the people is heard. it is not an excuse for what happened. it is the underpinning i hope that in some of these hearings we get under. white is it that they were being

looked at in the first place -- why is it that they were being looked at in the first place? whether they be liberals or conservatives, whether they be a green party or tea party, it is wrong. corrected.to be this is one of the most corrosive systems in a democracy. the enormous amount of money in the hands of the few that is able to impact elections. democrat ofarson, connecticut. he just wrapped up a term at the democratic caucus chairman. he is chairing the task wars on election reform which was created to develop the agenda.

south dakota, independent. caller: good morning. i would like to know how come congress cannot get their act together and change the laws? to knowicans would like that. why can't you get together and change the tax laws so they work for the simple workingman, the guide that puts in blood and sweat and tears of building your buildings? office that sits in the with climate control and has a bunch of money only pays 14%. does that seem like a fair taxes and to you? sweat and blood worth more than a rich man's money? i agree with you on certification and fairness and

equity within the tax code. that is what we should be striving for. -- myy in massachusetts colleague in massachusetts has .een here for the last 15 years we talked about the enormous amount of money in politics. goes the long way to influencing the special interest to come to the hill to me share remains oncular car the books. that is the fight we have. there is more of a ray of hope here. to say that people should be able to work across party lines and recognize this, emagin roads and bridges. -- you mentioned roads and bridges. he's coming to my district this weekend. he is a tour of the whole amtrak system.

towants to come up and talk people and then nonpartisan way about what we need to do to reinvest in the american people and roads and bridges and high- speed rail, our levee systems. we said at the outsidet, cut the deficit by a third. if we can demonstrate that we can work together. one for my state has a plant called an infrastructure bank. what that would do is provide a bank for infrastructure projects in all the 50 states but it would not just the government money. it would be augmented by the private sector. they would be picked on their urgency and what needed to be done.

there is the capital it could attract in order to achieve it. these are all very constructive ways of dealing with the problems. bill shuster reminds me, roads and bridges and streets and she was systems -- and sewage systems are neither democrat or republican. they are american. it should be about putting this economy back on the right track. the economy is doing well but by bit unless you the been waiting for infrastructure jobs that will be there to take care of the trade unions and all the people that are involved in the specific crafts that are required to build the nation. he growth that spurs from that is our ability to engage in manufacturing i lowering the tax rates. there is a bright future for the country. we just have to step up and get it in said of this endless

partisanship that goes on here .n washington, dc we have a president that is enormously patient. we hope that some here in congress starts to love their country more than they dislike the president and we will get things done. host: john larson, democrat representing the hartford area. he sits on the ways and means committee. you mentioned health care. yesterday on this program we that them henry clay obama administration has not done enough of a public- relations push on getting out and letting americans know what about.w is really all

who's responsibility is that? do you have concerns that americans did not know what is kicking in? guest: i have great respect for henry. i also have equal respect for secretary sibelius. this is a complicated plan. members of congress get very antsy when you go back to your district. we have held forms and telephone conversations. there are a lot of questions out there. you are dealing with this large one. the secretary's abilities make sure you get it right. it will be getting that kind of information out. why is that so important? it is complicated. that rates are

actually going to come down. for most people is now i will be covered where i was not before. whereexisting condition i cannot get any insurance now i am able to get this. to get this. my god, my child is able to stem a policy until age 26. my god, i do not have to worry about those screenings, that physical. that is covered under this. that concept of intervention and driving those costs down is very important. the way that the bill was constructed, as i said earlier in the segment, it is a complicated bill. it is not the way that social security or even medicare was laid out. it started, you know, full of hope and promise, non-partisan support, ending politically with most of the people who had supported it initially on the

republican side being torn away until mid romney, the presidential candidate, where the bill is modeled after the massachusetts plan said we have to get rid of obama care. that has been the lone mantra of the other side. 38 times it has been attempted in part or in total. listen, can we not sit down together and take the best parts of public health? there is not a republican out there who does not want to say children stay on a policy until 26, or have pre-existing conditions preventing someone from capping the cost so that people do not lose the money or go bankrupt. i know that, because i talked to them all the time, but being ideologically wed to this notion of purity that they have to get rid of a -- that they have to get rid of obama care, it has

become a political mantra. eric cantor, who i give a great deal of credit to, he wanted to fix something in medicare that would have fixed 10 million people not having care, but ted cruz said -- listen, and the support of obama care is a demonstration that you support a failed policy, this will not go on. the bill was pulled. this is in stark contrast to what the american people want to see. this is the opportunity. with everything that we have going on, with parties concerned about paradigm shifts that need to take place to block the logjam that has been created, it can come from us lowering the cost of 18% of gross domestic product on health care. the rest of the world is between 8% and 9%. if we lower that cost, not on the backs of the beneficiaries

of medicare or social security -- look, this is insurance. they paid for it. this makes no sense. how would it help anyone if you limit -- if you limit the amount of money that a medicare recipient is receiving? security,n social average medicare recipients, $22,000 per year, we are going to cut that? we're going to vouch for that system? sector sayhe outside now? people like the market burgling the from the at the center, saying that we could easily drive down those costs by coordinating care, teaming up as we are doing well already, purging the best of the public health system with innovation, science, technology, and of theeneurialism

private sector. we could pay down the national debt, have greater access to health care, and have better outcomes for people. the american public looks at us and says -- why are you not doing that? instead it is tastes great, less filling, repeal obama care, it just does not make sense. it is very frustrating but i truly believe that it will be more than just the outside. it will be technical logical of vances'. initiations. outside groupsom will drive this. not on the backs of beneficiaries who are sworn to serve. is up from pensacola, republican line. the fair tax -- caller: a fair tax, everything -- every time i mention this the

politicians, they say it would not fairly tax lower income people. what i would like you to do is address the rebate first. and then you can talk about the rest of it. it would increase manufacturing in this country unbelievably because it would weed out the embedded taxes for fica, medicare, and income tax. andould weed those out therefore a toaster built in connecticut could sit on the shelves alongside one built in bangladesh, india, or china. and compete very well because it did not have those based taxes. host: let's get a response. is one of thex suggestions that should go up

there with tax reform. strong proponent of that. you are right, there has been a lot of criticism of that because it would shift responsibility in taxes. what you were saying about the prebate was an attempt to make it more of a progressive tax rather than regressive. progressive meaning the more you're able to make, the more capable you are at paying, meaning the less you make if you have to pay more proportionally deemed that would be regressive. listen, no matter the tax formula, number one there should be simplicity. i will go back to what the chairman and the ranking member started with these hearings that we are having on the existing tax code.

we have not heard many colleagues on the other side of the aisle bring up the fair tax, but having been on the ways and means committee and having served with john, i am aware of it. and the approach that you can bring out their with regard to taxes should be heard and we should open it up to the american people. when i say we need to return to regular order, that means public hearings and members of congress taking those hearings and the information on the white road, holding their own hearings in which the current proposals up , all of these different proposals should have the opportunity to be heard by the american people. and then congress should have the responsibility to act on it. unfortunately, congress has not

acted on much. clearly tax reform is one area where we should. thank you for your call. host: eric, democratic line, hello. caller: one comment about this so-called irs scandal. crying and lot of moaning about the amount of fraud that pass through the irs. as far as these tea party groups that people feel were unfairly targeted, well for a powerful group, you are not supposed to be a primarily political organization. , onewas an irs worker thing i would look at right off if top would be to see organizations were named after political movements.

he party, republican party, something, democratic party something, all of these applications should be brought more scrutiny. host: folks on twitter are bringing up things along the lines that you are. chris writes in and says that the travesty of the scandal is that these political groups were classified as social welfare and granted exemptions. jim says, and asks you, congressman, when will you introduce legislation to require them to exclusively do good with no politics in the mix? guest: that is part of what our task force is looking at and that is a great question. this underscores the problem here. the problem that we face, the thing that was a red flag by the was the enormous amount of

money going there. they said it in a hearing the other day -- why is it that these, suddenly there are very few contributions going there? they are all going to 5014's because they did not have to disclose? the landmark case of citizens united, we have introduced legislation, the disclose act passed the house of representatives before. we are hoping the senate is going to be able to do that. the shareholder's protection act will allow shareholders to know where their money is going. but the whole reason that these things have expanded is because of their anonymity. because you do not have to disclose who is putting money into these programs. to say that the system is awash

in money from people like mr. huddleston in nevada, mr. pope in north carolina, we could go on and on. amounts ofg large sums of money. i would say that the george soros family has been a lifelong advocate of public financing and would like to see the system changed, but the system is being gamed and game by money. need to make sure that we differentiate 5014's and allow people who are not for profits to remain not for profits. that will take some work on behalf of congress. there are a number of pieces of legislation that have been put in, including as i mentioned disclose shareholder responsibilities and other acts.

task forces not only looking at disclosure, also looking at reforms on several levels, reforms within the tax code. professor john buckley on the ways and means committee has awful offered specific legislation which will target in a manner in which you would have to disclose who is behind this and that is the thing. if you want transparency, if you want the sun to shine in, the greatest antiseptic you can provide, a bright ray of sunshine shining in on all of these proposals. >> congressman john larsen, the new chairman for the task force for election reform. congressionale joint strike fighter caucus, gathering support for the f-35 joint strike fighter program.

the ways and means committee is holding a hearing this afternoon that you can find on our website. we will stream it live and also archived it. you will hear from organizations targeted as part of the irs scrutiny against applicants for tax-exempt status. you can see here some of the groups and names that will be testifying, including the national organization for marriage, a couple of tea party groups, patriot groups, and the coalition of life of viola. our next caller comes from new jersey. hello, daryl. caller: to answer your question, yes, we can do the things that you propose. i have a question for you. targeting, eight names appeared on the democratic page. these were eight people that were helping mitt romney. after those names came out, all

hell broke loose for these eight people being harassed and punished. not only by the irs but by other government agencies. intimidationr and was effective, as president obama won the election in spite of his failed presidency. debt, trillion's wasted. they had a plan and the plan was simple. break any law, tell any lie, but get president obama reelected and it worked. sir, is thiso you, -- is it better to kill a bad bill and pass a good bill? obama is giving contraceptives to little girls. it is giving them cancer and all kinds of trouble. we have lost our constitution.

we have lost our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. host: let's get a response. was certainly quite a bit. there is no overlooking the egregious nature of anyone by any party who is singled out. would it be that this was the first time that happened? askances was just an glance of a preview? in fact during the bush administration and i am sure during other administrations, this has gone on. whether it is bush or obama, any time an agency is acting in that kind of manner, we need to go in there and have a thorough investigation, weeding out the wrongdoers and moving forward. that is the only way we can restore people's trust. i commend the president's and

the democrats that we got the information from on the 14th. we responded on the 15th. i believe that this is what you need to do in a bipartisan basis. look, there are always going to be political differences. i understand that. so did george washington. he warned us about what could happen when political differences turn into a party within a party at war with its own government. that is where we do not need to go. harmful and as egregious as the activities were that were carried out in cincinnati, ohio, it does not reflect on the civil service system in general. it is all the more reason why we have to make sure we are restoring the public trust of the people. i believe that that is what

these hearings will point out. it will create even more raw meat for people who want the raw meat, but hopefully it will also provide us with an opportunity to get the job done. at the end of the day, against democrats and republicans sitting down here, perhaps tomorrow it can be on jobs and job creation, putting the country back to work. the next day without really having a health care system that works for everybody, again putting people back to work? my gosh, lowering the national debt at the same time. we can do all of that if we decide to work together as a congress. follow regular order the way that our forbearers described the system to work. frankly, it is not happening here, it is frustrating, but we should never give up because it is the people of this country

who are able to speak in their own words and from their heart and their heads. i think all the callers who called in and i thank you for your passion on the issue, whether we agree or disagree, it is that passion, commitment, and love of country that makes us who we are. host: and we thank you for being our guest this morning on " washington journal." guest: absolutely. host: the ways and means committee is having a hearing at 10:00 this morning looking at groups that were targeted by the irs. you can find that on our web page, c-span.org. coming up next, mark clayton takes a look at her watch lists, how are they created? what do they mean? first a news update from c-span radio. >> the effort to stop sexual assaults in the military takes place today. top commanders of the armed

forces,di martin dempsey, will be testifying. that hearing starts live this morning on c-span 3 and will go through the most -- go through most of the day. soared, 12.1% in april, from one year earlier. the biggest gain from february, 2006, as more buyers are competing for fewer homes. iny say prices rose in april 48 states. prices also rose 3.2% in april from march. also in, new economic news, the $3ding deficit widened to billion in april as demand for foreign cars, cellphone, and other imported goods outpace the growth in u.s. exports. regulators have proposed that a group of firms still be

considered potential threats to the system. insurers, american international group's, prudential, financial, and general electric co., a finance arm, are among the firms. the collapse of aig helped to trigger the financial crisis and they received a federal bailout that it has since repaid. those of the latest headlines on c-span radio. boat tv is live all weekend from the chicago tribune print fast. saturday authors include walter jacobson, although shelley foster, andlas margaret kalb. paul read on winston churchill, james good ale on the pentagon papers, and activist ian

benjamin, live this weekend. >> "washington journal" continues. host: mark clayton is a staff writer from boston. how well do watch lists work? this is a piece from "the christian science monitor." watch list, let's just start out with how many there are. guest: there are more than you might imagine. withning agencies, along several other agencies, they all that there watch lists. to explain the watch lists and their increased cohesiveness after 9/11, you really have to go back to 2003, when george bush signed a presidential

directive that the watch lists that existed at that time were spread across several agencies and that information was not shared. as of 2003 it has been shared. so, the watch lists actually national counter- terrorism center in virginia. this is a really large database and it is a top-secret data base through which flows all kinds of information, especially the statetions given by the department, cia, fbi. all of those individuals who are either current terrorists were suspected of being terrorists. that all flows into the database. host: let's look at these details based in virginia.

describe to us what this derogatory information, as it is called, is. guest: the term derogatory information could be anything, it could basically the intelligence reports from the cia, it could be information that a family member supplied because they think their relative has become radicalized from watching internet videos on g hot web sites, something like that. web sites, something like that. it could be anything. visiting one of those websites could potentially trigger the individual or data flowing in to be matched up with other data. that the also report list grew by 18% from 2011 to

2012. the build up? why more names? is that service and more effective purpose? is thereat is going on has been steady growth since 2003, but after the attempted airline bombing by the so-called under were bomber in christmas of 2009, the federal government did an intensive review of the less. president obama mandated it, congress went into debt on whether the watch list was working or not. after that review, the criteria for being on the less was adjusted. how it was adjusted is a secret. we do not know, exactly, but an increase the number of names flowed in. alwaysid, the watch list seems to be growing. i am using it in the same breath

i am saying database, but we will have to explain to folks that the database is not technically a watch list itself. it is a granddaddy repository for this information that has been matched with names. are 75,000 names in the database. and not all of them are individuals. from the database, it feeds the master list tell by the fbi, the terrorists screening center, and the nation's master terrorist watch list is called the terror screening list. sorry, the terrorists screening data base is the master.

the several lists, right? the no-fly list? they use a program called secure flight to pre-screen people. so, the master list held by the fbi is sent daily and regularly to these different agencies in the state department, which monitor these visa applications. "christian science monitor" created a graphic, let's look at the pipeline. gathered together by different agencies, cia, interval, or by domestic agencies, and then it goes through an assessment policy. where do these numbers start to get thin? how do you look at the difference between the numbers for those who are possibly worth

watching and those actually on a watch list? >> it all goes back to the database. there are teams of analysts, as well as computer algorithms working constantly to match up derogatory information with names and aliases. also a lot of what they do is just sorting out false information. for example sorting out information that is wrong. incorrect birth dates, and correct names spelling, all of that sort of thing is sorted out. the database is based with 75,000 names in it. you have the natural watchlist held by the fbi, which has about 520,000 names in it. again, not all of those names are individuals. host: mark clayton, we are talking about terrorist watch list. tell us about the boston

marathon bombing suspects. we saw one of the brothers was on a master watch list, potentially, like the terrorists. tell us about the case and what happened to his name and identity. preface by saying that there has not been the ultimate, definitive released on exactly what happened. but we do know that the older who early on was flagged by the russian intelligence service, i should have said that the tide database received intelligence from overseas, from interval and foreign intelligence services. the russians, it was around march of 2011 sent the fbi a note indicating that they

thought he had become radicalized. how they know that, we do not know. i will just run through the overview of what happened, the fbi checked into it and did not find corroborating information and as a result, his name was, it is my understanding it did not get on at that point. however later the fbi did at the name, but it went through a cycle, because after the fbi did their investigation the cia received the same information from the russians and at that point his name did go on to the database. we have reported by various news outlets that his name appeared with watch lists on entry points for coming and going.

he was detected leaving for russia in january of 2012, but he was not detected returning. janet napolitano appear before congress last month and did speak to that point. it is not entirely clear to me, anyway, exactly when, where, or why his name went on or off the list, but he was on the list at least twice according to reports. of "therk clayton christian science monitor." if you would like to join the conversation and talk about this, republicans can call 20 -- for republicans, 202-585-3881. for democrats, 202-585-3880. for independents, 202-585-3882. piece the " mark randall on intelligence and counter -- you quote mark randall on

intelligence. what are the calls for a revision of the watch list and what are the lessons learned? the watch list is a work in progress, which is reflected by the underwear bomber in december 2009. when they went into it, his name, he really should have been on the watch list. based on the amount of information present. not all the dots were connected. that was quite a challenge for the national counter-terrorism center to connect those dots and have those people who should be on it on it. there were other challenges, they were extremely concerned that these watch lists, which might be interested to know, they have 20,000 names on those lists. that is the most restrictive

list. anyone on that list does not get on a plane going into the united states. civil libertarians in april of this year, the constitution project, which is both liberal and conservative members in that interesting civil rights project, the civil liberties project, they filed a brief with the district court of oregon. alleged that there were numerous errors in the list and it led to deprivation of people's rights to get on the airplane. anyway, there are definitely still concerns by civil libertarians that privacy issues are a problem and that mistakes in the database are a problem, that names that should not be on there are removed.

anyway, i will leave it at that. this civil liberties question, from twitter we have "basically is this not about precrime? you are being watched because you might be something wrong"? guest: i do not think that this is like minority report. watch lists that existed long before single, more cohesive watch list, but even the civil liberties groups, the constitution project, one of whose officials i interviewed, they indicated they are not opposing the list. what they want is more transparency, the one regular reviews of the list to make sure it is operating properly. regular, systematic removals of derogatory information that is not accurate, or names that

should not be on there. they want more congressional oversight. they are not opposing the list. in fact, this is how we watched our borders, with the identifying information of the names on that list. host: let's go to western jenny and hear from joe. hello. caller: i guess my question is on the homeland security, the government watch less, last year the governor from apologized to the citizens of pennsylvania because homeland security had allowed all the names of the environmental groups to be released to provide security for the watch list. [cell phone ringing] people like michael chertoff,

tom ridge, they're starting these security companies, these private companies, where these especially like big energy companies are employing to watch citizens who have concerns about fracking and the way that coal is extracted in west virginia. that,dino anything about mark clayton? guest: i do not know anything about that specific case, but there is concern about the watchless not being used for political purposes. people are always up on that issue. there are, of course, many people who believe that their names are erroneously included on the watch list. they get to the airport and the underwrote extra scrutiny and it happens again and again. in fact what the national counter-terrorism center, the terror screening center in the indicates that very few

people, very few americans, about 1% of those in the database are actually americans. thatof what happens is those names are very similar to someone with an alias of that list. among those seeking redress through the department of is a veryecurity, it small percentage that are actually found to be mistakenly included. probably to the caller's question, more oversight by congress would, especially in the wake of this bombing situation, would shine a light on how the list worked in this how impartial it is. i think the national terrorism screening center, the people

speaking on this issue would say that there is no political aspect whatsoever. anyway. att: there is a web sites the part of homeland security where if you are on their watch less and you think your on without cause, you can log in to this page. it is an inquiry program where you can inquire about the other lists that you do not think you're supposed to be on. have youexperienced -- heard of anyone experiencing this? guest: not personally, though i did come across stories of egregious mistakes. a few years ago there was a repeated case of a 9-year-old boy who kept getting stop for a lot of extra scrutiny at the

airport. it went on and on and it was difficult for his family to get his name off a list. there have been a few cases like that that have gone all the way to the media because it seemed like it was very difficult. the office of the inspector general for the fbi, 2009, did cite a problem at that time. let's see, 72% of the case is were untimely in their removal of the subjects. that was a problem in 2009. we do not know if it is still a problem, it has been almost four years since that report and presumably there have been improvements since then. host: shame, republican line, virginia. go ahead.

caller: two part question. i will take my answer is offline. the fbi has a program called vigilant eagle that used to skinheads anditor neo-nazis. possible domestic terrorists. is that an ancillary programs -- host: where did you get that information? caller: the internet. guest: i have to tell you, on that part i am not familiar and do not know about the. host: here is a story on that, new york times -- "the new york times," "meet my key, age 8, the u.s. has him on a watch list." this 8-year-old wound up on the watch list because of his name.

jamie, florida, hello. caller: is there a way to find out definitively the your on a watch list? if you are unable to travel for a job, can you sue the government? how long does it take to get your name off the list? and if you get in an argument with the government, is there redress in court to get your name taken off the list? has anyone done that, yet? guest: those are good questions. lawyer, but clearly there have been lawsuits about the inclusion of people's names on the list. so, you can definitely say the government. well, i say definitely and am not a lawyer, but it is my belief that you can probably sue the government to have your name

removed. to the other issues that you mentioned, it is problematic, this is part of the constitution project and transparency. he may seek redress, but even after you have received redress , it is not ever clear that you were on the list to begin with. it is very difficult to pry any information out of the .ureaucracy especially regarding a top- secret data base. maybe you get to the airport and you suddenly find that you are sailing right through. that could be the only way you will actually ever know. i have not actually spoken with .ndividuals as i mentioned the case in

april. in the district court for portland, oregon, there have been a lot of these. staff writerayton, for "the christian science ," his recent peace, "how well the watch list works." for republicans, 202-585-3881. for democrats, 202-585-3880. for independents, 202-585-3882. host: mark clayton, you profiled one piece. how did the watch list come into play in the case of the person known as the times square bomber? ofst: this goes to the issue whether these lists work or not. when you ask the officials that operate these lists, but they say is that they are and valuable, and one thing that they cite, and it is vague, they

said hundreds of people have been captured by the no-fly list of airplanes headed to the united states. these are people known or suspected of terrorist activities. so, they cite that. as you mentioned, there was an attempted times square bomber in 2010. worked case the list more in an investigative role in helping to solve that case. here is what happened. his name was not on the watch list. detected people leaving the scene, investigators finally located his residence and found out his name, his actual name. , within 48s quickly hours, added to the watch list.

it was just in the nick of time, that was around noon of -- i forget which day, but it was hours before he was to leave on a flight to pakistan and i believe it was the customs and border patrol who checked that watch list against the passenger manifest list. at last check caught the guy and agents went on the plane, arrested him, and brought him back. case there was an investigative benefit from the watch list, which as you can see operates nearly in real a bigespecially after event. host: thomas, republican line.

caller: you gave a number of 800,000 some people on the list. yout is a secret, how do know how many people? i know that homeland security one time said that a bunch of right-wing crash -- right-wing christian groups and all of that, it is not really applied as the same thing, but in the they had guitar manufacturers with swat teams , just because of their donations to the republican party. i will take my answer off the air. guest: thank you for your question. i know nothing about the gibson guitar case, but the 875,000

names, as you were alluding to, not all of those names are individuals. again, this is a transparency problem. it is not clear, exactly, how many individuals that represents. that is a top-secret list, as i indicated. that is not open to anyone, but it does feed the terrorist screening data base and master watch list. that is considered secure information, but not top secret. the watch list includes names and it also includes identifying information that identifies were controllers to look maybe at physical biometrics and physical features of the individual to indicate whether this is the individual on the watch list or

not. i do have a little bit of information along these lines. the terrorism screening data base that is the master watch 423,000 namesfrom it just -- ok,s sorry, let me give you the example from the pie database. in 2008 the congressional research service reported that ande were 540,000 names 450,000 individuals. i do not have their source for that, but that is the only citation i have seen. clearly in the database there are more names than individuals. that gives you a sense of scale. there are a lot of aliases.

host: a report from npr looking at the gibson guitar raid. the story goes on to explain that federal marshals raided the gibson guitar corp. in tennessee, the government preparing a charge against them saying that the instruments were trafficking in illegally obtained would. that is what that was about. victoria, texas, hello. caller: i was also a victim. i will be taking a back to 2003, when president george bush was in office. i was also put on a watch list by the fbi do to the fact of where i work that at the time. i do not know if you are familiar with the homeland security investigation of the homeland -- of the security and that -- of texas.

i am an american citizen, also a veteran, and i was put on the watch list by the fbi for failing to have documentation. i think i was put on their because of guilt by association. i have addressed this in court. they took my picture from the driver's license. it was published in court. i have not been able to clear my name. ,very time i go for employment i think the background investigation comes up. how do we get the fbi to remove the damages they have cause to innocent people? guest: you said that you sought legal redress in court, i guess

that is where you would find it. need some help. i do not know if they would want me volunteering them, but if i were you i would call a program called the constitution project. in april there was another individual with a similar issue. it may be that at the very least you get some specific device. i am sure that those lawyers would probably be interested in your case. especially if you were on the list or if there were indications that you were in your name has not been removed. obviously, the government if they feel -- there are two criteria, really, for being on the list. two things. identifying information and reasonable suspicion. not guesses, not hunches, that

is not enough. it has to be reasonable suspicion. you can seek to have your name removed. that is no guarantee that it will be removed, but there are legal options there for you. if you have been treated a group, seeking out like the constitution project may yield some options or recommendations. host: mark clayton has been writing about cyber security for "the christian science monitor" since 2008, and prior to that he covered education. he also spent time as the toronto bureau chief of "the christian science monitor" in the 1990's. disinformation from corridor -- -- this question from twitter -- guest: well, here we get into the realm of speculation, or at least speculation on my part.

i think it is pretty clear that intelligence services these days are doing a lot more than they ever did before to share information on terrorism. clearly the russians provided information on the boston bombers twice. they did end up in the database and later were put on a couple of watch less. so, the information flow from the united states, i am assuming that these partners do not just consider a one-way flow. all of this, there is information flowing to our intelligence services into our database.

is deemed to be a concern, it probably does go to for an intelligence services, like russia, france, or britain, or other partners with the united states. host: there are at these nine lists drawn from a single government database. our guest reported on this for "the christian science monitor." you can see entities that create their own watch lists. gsa has a no-fly list and a select list. you can see some state issue -- state issued lists. let's go to tennessee and hear from sandy, republican. caller: good morning. the were set up to blame cia, the fbi, and anyone you could piece together. so that we could watch and have that information.

now we have got homeland security, which is political. there were homeland security bands around the tea party organization. are supports -- supposed to be patrolling the borders. they are not doing that. everything is so big and political now. it is no wonder that people get caught up on these terrorist lists. it needs to be changed. guest: you make an interesting point, have the lists been politicized. i would assume that if there is any chance that the watch list has been politicized, given the environment in washington, there is a good chance that there will be a hearing about a. as concerns the boston marathon bombing, the list was discussed and touched on in a couple of different hearings in early may.

but there has not been a hearing focused just on that list. also focusing just on the issue of how well it reportedly removed people from the list to should not be there. that to your question about -- has it been politicized? has the tea party been targeted? ,ased on what i know about this it is not a case that has been proven yet. story and i amne too vague on it, but there was a recent allegation where i think that the late it -- the way to solidify that is to go to court, fighting the actions taken or not taken by the government, or

urge your congressman to hold a hearing. a hearing that will go into more depth. caller: my comment on whether these lists are working is no. because the boston bomber was on that list. so was his brother. yet these individuals were allowed to move through the republic freely without being harmed. meanwhile the woman who called a few minutes ago, basically her life was ruined because she was put on this list. we should be ashamed as american citizens. shazzad was not allowed to fly because he was on a list. does that give you a feeling of security? >> no, because it was sort of caught at the last minute.

guest: i think the caller raises an important issue. going back to that 2009 christmas airline attempted wasing, after that there intensive scrutiny to try to get rid of the gaps in the list. why was a certain individuals named not on it, especially since his own father had reported him, if i have the right, reported him to the u.s. embassy in the nation, that his son had become radicalized. that actually did work its way through the rear rock received. i guess that should be somewhat reassuring in a certain way, that his name was not just

automatically kicked out on to the watch list, it was a database that was completed after, if my memory serves, they adjust to the criteria so that someone like the father gets a higher level -- it used to be the it would require two or three different sources to get a name on the watch list. now the standard is different and has been changed. it is not clear how it has been and there is a much higher likelihood that it is an to be on the list. a loneler makes a point, terrorist, how to detect as guys. -- those guys. this allows for e-mail communications with terrorist groups abroad, but what if you

are just a radicalized individual sitting at home? maybe you are detected through a website. that might raise a red flag for the government, but in any case, the issue that it is not a perfect system and will require further scrutiny to see if there are more gaps and whether the totem can be tightened down thele who have a sense of nation. host: equipped with a message -- why not make the list public? guest: well, they are not top- secret. they are secure. that is a good question. i think the answer would probably be that if they are public, then the terrorists,

those who are inclined to terrorism will make sure that they changed to an alias not included on the list. it may be that for practical reasons, you cannot have the list be public or else everyone will choose, everyone with bad intent will choose and assume a false identity. host: mark clayton, thank you so much for joining us this morning. guest: you're welcome. glad to do it. host: we now go to the floor of the house of representatives. thank you for joining us. we will see you tomorrow morning. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] mo brooks to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the order of the house of january 3, 2013, the chair will now recognize members from lists submitted by the majority and minority leaders for morning hour debate.