writes that city in the future will need to be healthier and safer for the human race to survive. as part of we will also take your phone call, e-mails, and tweets. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] flags in washington remained at half staff after the passing of senator frank lautenberg, democrat of new jersey, on monday. vice president joe biden and former secretary of state hillary rodham clinton will deliver eulogies at the funeral service today. live coverage 11:30 a.m. on c- span2. house and senate is back with hearings on the irs and debate on immigration reform continuing. senator marco rubio and -- citing the group of eight does not have votes in the senate yet for the bill.

and the military's top brass testifies before the senate armed services committee on sexual assault in the military. while the military chiefs acknowledge the growing problem, they oppose removing commanders legal power over serious crime. we turn to get your take on this. host: you can also send us a tweet, post your comments on facebook or e-mail us. host: should the commanders legal power be removed when it comes to serious crimes like cisco -- sexual assault and rape? that was the topic at yesterday 's hearing before the senate armed services committee where the top military chiefs lined up all at one table. here is a picture in "the washington post" with the generals sitting at the table.

let me show you what general ray odeneiro had to say. >> my experience leads me to believe the problems are not the result of the failure of the military justice system but some commanders and leaders to administer the system correctly. to act in compliance with the current policies. we must take a hard look at our system from start to finish to ensure commanders and judge advocates are subject to appropriate checks and balances, while protecting the interest of the big them and due process rights of accused soldiers. i've proposed a number of such checks and balances in my written statement. if we find these checks and balances to be insufficient, we must move in a very deliberate fashion to preserve what is whilen the system correcting inadequacies. i am in full support of response systems panel to determine what changes should be made to the law and policy.

i understand that the credibility of the armed forces, the audibility of the army, are at stake, but we cannot simply our way out of this problem. without equivocation i believe maintaining the central role of commander in our military justice system is absolutely critical to any solution. odiernoat was general in his opening statement talking about whether or not to remove the legal power from commanders. this from "the baltimore sun" this morning. "in the gone blast of infectious blasted on sexon assault" --

host: we want to get your take on this. what do you think? should the power be removed from the commanders? "the baltimore sun" story goes on to say this -- the bills are likely to be considered when the committee takes up the annual defense department authorization bill starting next week. from "the washington post" story on this, they quote general removingsaying commanders will not work.

robert in north carolina, democratic caller. you are first. 24 years in, about fault in two wars, korea and vietnam, and it was all men. we had women, too. they were in their place and we were in our place. i guarantee you, when i left the military in 1974, 1 reason i left is because they were talking about the new all volunteer army and the plant on having -- putting the women in the ranks. it does not work. you do not put dogs and cats in the same pen. , -- yes,f they got now women got their rights, but put them in a different work zone. -- dolet me ask you this you think, though, that those who allegedly commit those crimes, do you think they're criminals? caller: it is like this here.

if i walked in the yard and the old dog bit me -- you know what i'm trying to say? host: we will go to the gym in grand forks on the north could appeared republican color. , aler: i just wanted to say few months ago we were having a debate on c-span about -- women were calling up on the airwaves saying that they are just as tough as men. don't you dare look at me as different. i can handle any kind of combat role. all of a sudden two months later we are back saying women are a weak gender and must have special protections. do they want to be in basic training? do they want to be in combat storming machine gun nest held by al qaeda who, if they capture them, would do a lot worse than any american man will do. an incredible double standard. but it is throughout our

society. i noticed when i work in a medical facility -- host: can i step in and ask why you think this is struck -- special treatment for women, the legislation? dollar coat it is necessary -- necessary is treatment. maybe not articulate -- but when you put dogs and cats together. somebody tweeted one time -- 20- year-old man with a raging testosterone -- that is why they are in the military because they are the toughest men there are. you will have these problems. another example of how diversity is not a source of strength, whether racial or gender, a source of strength. we spend billions of dollars to manage diversity in schools and corporations and to manage it in government. it is a source of volatility when it comes to race, and even when it comes to gender, it will be endless problems internally when we need to fight externally. what if we had to worry about

this before we stormed the beaches of iwo jima? thatif we had some marine had done something to a woman and we had all of these internal problems when we are trying to defeat an enemy? this is why diversity is not a source of strength. host: you call a special treatment for women. this is what "the baltimore sun" piece says.

they also argued removing commanders responsibility for sexual assault cases would make it impossible to hold them accountable for preventing such -- permitting such crimes to occur in their unit. that is the argument from secretary hegel and the military chiefs who testified yesterday before the senate armed services. we are turning to all of you and going outside washington. what is your take? should the legal power that commanders have now been removed from them and have an independent prosecutor when it comes to serious crimes? our last caller -- the first two calls brought up military -- women serving in the military and the last caller brought up the issue of young men and hormones. here's is the headline from a cnn story.

representatives not senator saxby chambliss'comments. here's what he had to say yesterday. [video clip] --each of your services they are anywhere from 17-22 or 23. the hormone level created by nature sets in place the possibility of these types of things to occur. so, we've got to be very careful about how we address it on our side. but we are not doing our job. you are not doing yours and we are not doing ours with the rates we are seeing an sexual assaults. you said to start with, recognize it and we recognize it and we got to figure this thing out because we simply can't tolerate it. host: the first part of the comments making headlines this morning. republican mike turner, cochairman of the military sexual assault prevention

caucus issued a statement saying criminals, not hormones, causes sexual assault. and then on nbc's website there was this headline -- john mccain -- women should avoid military service until sexual misconduct crisis is solved. i'll have to, florida. independent caller. good morning. host: what are your thoughts question caller: no, i do not believe john -- congress should change anything. they cannot take care of the original business of our country. they don't uphold our laws, enforce our laws. it seems like everybody is above the law except for us peons who take care of everything. number two, sexual assault could be anywhere from verbal to actual rape and assault. so that needs to be differentiated. and sometimes it depends on the woman, too. my daughter -- i will give you

a quick example, was working at the pubblix and some guy was hitting on her and she said she would sue for sexual assault. i said, why? because he won't leave me alone. i said, because you do not like him. if you felt the same way -- she said, no, the problem is you and not him. because he is hitting on you. there are big differences there. and a lot of our children are being taught that everything is wrong about everything else if you don't like it. all the gentlemen -- i do not believe that women have any business being in those -- should not do it. it is a problem to mix men and women together. host: we got that point. i'm wondering what you think -- of those reported, men are reporting having unwanted sexual contact as well. it is not just women in the military. caller: and i agree.

that is a problem with openly .omosexuals and/or even females there are a lot of aggressive females out there and if they do not get their way, they scream and cry and they generally get their way because they are females. i am one of seven sisters. i see it. a lot of us women, we see a lot of this stuff. they are not without some form of guilt at times. don't get me wrong i'm a somebody does something wrong, if somebody reads you, he is a criminal. i did not care if he is military or not. but i don't think you should combine the wolves and the chickens" them on the same house. i agree with all that. i think it is a major problem. i think women have a place in the military but not in close hindquarters where men have to compensate on defending women before they can defend themselves and our country.

i think everything has to be focused and workable. i think congress needs to mind their own business, because they can't run their own business and should not be running the military. host: we got that point. earlier -- actually last month at may the pentagon put out a report on sexual assault in the military. here are sold -- some numbers. anonymously reported assault grew by 30% between 2010 and 2012. 26,000 troops experience unwanted sexual contact. up from 19300 and 2010. 2010 sexual assault crimes 3370 4, 6% increase over 2009. troops,tacted 108,000 24% responded to the survey. we will go to sam in hillsdale, michigan. democratic caller. caller: i have to tell you,

these people who you have been talking to are making my head spin. live andnders can't work together, how do we expect different religions and races to learn to live and work together? i definitely believe that the jag should be taking care of the sexual assault cases. has the officer corps capability and the brains to do it. and the congress, as the last woman did say, congress cannot take care of what they were supposed to be doing so they should not be doing this, either. all i have to say. i have to say, i am flabbergasted by the last people's comments. i just can't believe people believe that. that you. -- commanders are soldiers, not cops. they have proven they cannot deal with the sexual assault. take it away from them. dennis, republican caller. caller: my comment is this.

i think most of the previous callers that thing women did not have a place in the military -- well, women in the israeli army to form the same services they do in the u.s. army. in thervices the women chinese army perform. but the sexual assaults do not happen in those services as an hours. it is because, if you look at all of those military commanders, every last one of them was a man, an old white man over 57 years of age. there was a previous caller talking about diversity. diversity has nothing to do with women being in the military. women are just as capable as men shooting a rifle as a man is. just as capable at fighting. i do not understand why if you get assaulted sexually that has to be some difference between a man and a woman. if i am being assaulted, i am being assaulted, and it should be put to an end. first lieutenant, second lieutenant, captain's run those companies are responsible for

the soldiers under their care. if they are not doing the job, take it away from the commanders and give to the congress to decide to let somebody else watch over that aspect of the military command. because they are not doing their job. we do it in private society. when somebody is not doing the job. he do it in police forces one to leave cap is to not do their job, protect the women under the command. we can do it in the military. ,ost: senator claire mccaskill democrat of missouri, served in the armed services committee alongside six other women. [video clip] >> i think part of the problem is you have mushed together to issues in ways not helpful to successful prosecution. there are two problems. one, you sexual predators who are committing crimes. two, yourhe all -- work to do on the issue of a respectable and healthy work environment. these are not the same issues. . and with all due respect, general odierno, we can

prosecute our way out of the first issue. we can prosecute our way out of the problem of sexual predators who are not committing crimes of lust. my years of experience in this area tell me they are committing crimes of domination and violence. this is not about sex. ives is about assaulte domination and violence and as long as those two did mushed together, you all will not be a success by the need to be at getting after the most insidious part of day, which is the predators in your ranks. host: senator clemmer craft of -- senator claire mccaskill, former prosecutor, talking about removing the legal power from commanders. we are getting your take on twitter. matthew says --

ken in cincinnati, democratic caller. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. a couple comments. -- the firste that few callers can differentiate between sex andr violence. a violent crime. it has nothing to do with hormones. it has to do with power, like senator mccaskill said. domination. i am not sure what century they are calling from. two, i don't believe the commanders should be totally left out of the picture. and at the same time, i am the veteran, i have seen conflicts of interest between commanders and enlisted. that you canelieve a situation where the

commander, who is part of the .nit, he totally conflict-free and we should have some independent arbitrators in the process. ken. all right, michael johnson tweets in this -- host: the story in "the new york times" this morning, and donilon to resign. he will be replaced by susan rice, american ambassador to the united nations. the appointment, which mr. obama plans to make one's afternoon what ms. rice, 40 eight, outspoken diplomat and close ally at the heart of the administration's foreign policy apparatus. also a defiant gesture to republicans who are still -- harshly criticize ms. rice for preventing an erroneous account

on the deadly attack on the american mission in libya. the post, while powerful, does not require senate confirmation. brookfield, new york, independent caller. caller: i am one of those guys that the fellow from michigan described as not having enough brains for this. but i got to tell you, a commander is responsible for all fails toens, that happen, and by limiting his use his forces appropriately, you are dooming them to failure in difficult and dangerous situations. it is clear from your callers that they don't have the military experience to have an opinion on this, much less enforce their will on the military. this is absolutely insane. , herndon, virginia. republican caller. caller: how was it going? yeah, good morning. i am a former marine myself.

this argument -- this excuse i hear from other callers comparing us to stock animals, men have testosterone and urges. that is a disgusting argument. koreans, soldiers, -- marines, soldiers, they are trained to fight the enemy. there is no idea that somehow your homeowner and -- your hormones control you. you are soldiers. you control yourself. ,f you rape a woman or a salter that is your fault. you failed as a soldier or marine to control yourself. the military for hundreds of years have been training of how to control ourselves. the same argument -- ok, if a soldier has the urge to rape women, what is preventing him from being a peacekeeper in a civilian area when he sees women walking around all the time? when i was in iraq, the marines were not treating the women

around them terribly because we were trained not to do this kind of stuff. host: on the training part of this, what kind of training do you go through? on the issue of sexual assault? they used to: -- say all the time, would you like my hands all over you? the answer is no. you keep your hands to yourself. you are not a 12 year old child. you are a adult man/woman. you don't touch people or harm people unless you are ordered to, in combat. that wese i always hear are at the mercy of our hormones. we do not buy that for them -- i do not buy it for a moment. we are human beings. not machines. it -- we are machines. it sounds silly but we are trained to do certain things. host: should the power

to prosecute or not prosecute or change sentences be taken away from commanders? caller: i think that when someone -- i think commanders should be empowered to punish someone in the command in his ranks doing actions they are not supposed to like sexual assault. i think commanders should be empowered empowered to punish that soldier or marine. the standard -- going through military court. and there should be some differentiation. i heard some people saying that what constitutes sexual assault or simply flirting. obviously i do not think --rting should be considered but if a soldier runs up and touches another soldier in an inappropriate place and they go up to the chain of command and the commander feels like this of a problem and needs to be addressed, i think the commander should have that power. no different than the commander

in the field having power to control his troops. it is troops are doing bad things to each other, he has the right, i think, to administer punishment. host: i want you to hang on the line. i want to show our viewers. you will have to listen through the phone. i want to show the viewers what say.or gillibrand had to her statement is making news about the commanders and whether or not they are capable of handling this issue. [video clip] arehat several of us asserting and arguing today is we think that you should do what other countries around the world who we fight with every day -- and they are our allies, with us in combat -- israel, the uk, australia, germany -- they have taken the series grinds out of the chain of command for precisely this reason. because the commander, while you are also dedicated and determined, not all commanders are objective. not every single commander necessarily wants women in the force. not every single commander

believes what a sexual assault is. not every single commander can distinguish between a slap on rape because they merged all the crimes together. my point is, this has been done before by our allies to great effect. in israel in the last five years because they prosecuted high-level cases, you know what has increased by 80%? reporting. , are you still with us? did you hear that from the senator? yes, i did.ller: of course, it cannot be an absolute situation. she will appeal to the commander, the commander does not do what he is opposed to do, then it goes past him his head and up the chain. in other words, would be the best choice -- a hybrid. the majority of commanders to care what is going on and i believe the majority are

capable of issuing out punishment and judgment. there are a lot of commanders who are able to do that. if a commander clearly is not capable of doing this, they should remove his command and they should go to some other legislative fish -- system. host: a viewer says this on twitter -- i wonder if israel or other militaries by the same -- have the same problem and if they do, how they handle it? you heard the senator talk about how other other countries like israel dealt with it. they have taken the power away from commanders and reporting has gone up significantly. in other news, front page of " the washington times" this morning. we told you on immigration reform, senator marco rubio, republican of florida and much speculated presidential contender for 2016 says they do not have the votes yet in the senate to pass their proposal. "the washington times" saying some row immigration groups saying that they think senator

rubio is trying to kill the legislation before it makes its way to the floor but senator majority leader harry reid saying despite not having the votes yet it is still coming to the floor and it will be up the republicans do decide whether or not they vote for it. that, a story about the irs. another up in capitol hill yesterday. if you were tuned in before we started "washington journal" this morning use all the hearing. if you missed it yesterday or this morning, go to our website www.c-span.org and you can find it there. spent 4.1 million on california junket. this news comes out before the hearing.

host: here is alabama tea party president who testified yesterday. she gets emotional about the process for applying for the tax-exempt status and what her group had to go through. [video clip] patriotic americans did we peacefully assemble. we petition our government. we exercise the right to free speech and we do not understand why the government tried to stop us. or anot here as a serf vassal or begging my lord for her seat. i am a born free american woman -- wife, mother and citizen, and i am telling my government that you have forgotten your place. it is not your responsibility

to look out for my well-being and to monitor my speech. it is not your right to assert an agenda. the post that you occupy exists to preserve american liberty. you have sworn to perform that duty, and you have faltered. ,ost: yesterday's irs hearing and "the baltimore sun was quoted headline is "new charges against the irs."

host: and then this headline on the attacks in benghazi. the headline in "the washington times." terrorist claims ambassador stephens was killed with a fatal injection. an al qaeda terrorist stated in a recent posting that an ambassador was killed by lethal injection after plans to kidnap him during the september 11 attacks will in benghazi went bad. host: and also in "the wall street journal" this morning, a new poll out on the obama administration. majority expressed concerns in benghazirs and episodes. most don't see president as personally responsible. there are the numbers for you if you want to dig a little deeper in this wall street journal/nbc poll.

it says president barack obama survive so his personal image largely intact. it goes on to say congressional republicans can take heart that 50% of the adults polled said lawmakers were justified in investigating the recent controversies compared to 42% who viewed the inquiries and hearings as unfair partisan attacks. on the the latest poll irs hearings and the benghazi attack, etc.. those investigations continuing on capitol hill. charlie in winchester, virginia. republican caller. back to our topic -- military sexual assault. should the legal power that commanders have convening authority be taken away? caller: no, not at all. i think it is great the commanders have power to punish those within their formation. and if it means if it is such

an aggravated assault it could go higher, then that is a possibility. but the commanders cannot lose that authority within their ranks. not at all. host: y, charlie? why do you feel strongly about it? i'll echo because there is a legal system -- caller: because there is a legal system in the military and if it is used properly, it does work you did only the commanders therelt, but soldiers -- are designated representatives within each company to litigate that. -- training all the time. if the commander is not allowed to give the safety brief and in return punish the soldier, then he loses all authority and power. host: what do you make of the senator saying it is not working, that the current system is not working? when you look at the pentagon's report from last month, 26,000 soldiers and surveyed said that

they had experienced unwanted sexual contact and yet only 3300 -- a little over 3000 reported it. caller: i think a lot of soldiers that they might not reported because they do not think it is that big of a deal. although it has happened. i actually know that is the case. and i know if the system we have is not working -- i think it is because it might not be harsh enough. .t needs to go a step further not just a slap on the wrist to the soldiers who do this, but a true punishment come in jail time. --t: a viewer says in other news this morning, the front page of the market section of "the financial times errico apple faces import ban and the united states.

host: also, in other consumer news, "the detroit free press" -- back in "the detroit free press ." and "worst-case loss" in "the

wall street journal" -- "the wall street journal" this morning. some other news for you from capitol hill. here is "the washington times erric," thateen sebelius testified her appeal for funds for the affordable care act did not break the law. washingtonom "the post" this morning, michelle obama was that if one raise in the dc area and confront a protester at a fundraiser in the bc home. and lesbian activists interrupted her remarks to demand president obama signed an antidiscrimination executive order.

host: the protester was quoted as saying she came right down to my face, i was taken aback.

host: that in "the washington post" this morning. also -- the house looking to .sx public campaign financing host: the fund also partially pays for the presidential nominating conventions for the two major parties and mining parties if they receive less than five percent of the vote in previous election.

in 2012 democratic and republican parties each received 18 million for their convention. , independent caller. what are your thoughts? caller: good morning. i am calling to weigh in on the sexual assault in the military. it kind of breaks my heart to see this going on. but it is really just an example of what women live every day in regular society. samethey faced these issues with sexual assault, then they are worried about coming forward. they are worried about retaliation by the person that quite possibly could be someone when they are, trying to prosecute that person. , i am really hard work into think that in our military that when are suffering that

they are putting all of their heart into their work and yet treated with such disrespect. i really believe that this is a problem that is so deeply rooted in our american society, where women are just somehow unfortunately by a large percentage of men, that they are inferior to them and they made do with them as they wish to do them as theyh wish to do. it is something so insidious, we have to start even in our society -- in regular society, and not just in the military -- to focus on this problem. hum ofas the commanders the persons being in charge and overlooking -- the commanders, the persons being in charge and overlooking, i really believed a

commander -- i really believe a commander, i understand they do not want to lose their respect or their position of power to outand a soldier be brought on charges or tried on charges, but this is such a sensitive kind of a special crime that i worry that when a woman does come forward, or even a man, that it would be really difficult even with the most fair and perfect commander, it would be very difficult to remain completely impartial in the situation. and that it really would be best handled i an independent agency -- and by an independent that would somehow allow the m's to more comfortable coming forward. host: we will leave it there.

on our facebook page, it says -- you can post your comments on facebook.com/c-span if you want to give us your thoughts on their. -- there. reed wilson from national journals hotline talking about politics. we begin with new jersey. the passing of senator frank lautenberg, democrat of new jersey, opens up the seat. and the governor, republican chris christie, held a news conference. he scheduled a special election for october. roles inwhat are their new jersey for filling the seat? guest: new jersey, like other states, have convoluted --

convoluted roles. it obviously does not, very often. but chris christie's reading of the law is he had to declare a a vacancy, which governors do once somebody leaves the senate in whatever manner they do. he had to declare the vacancy, he had to diskette -- to schedule an election within a certain number of days. depending on how you read the law, it could have been as late as november of this year or as early as what chris christie be awhich there would primary election august 13 and a general election on october 16, so it gives candidates a pretty narrow window of time to get their acts together to campaign throughout the state and run a pretty short general election. one of the things that is fascinating is candidates will only have five days to gather these on thousand signatures they need to get on the ballot, which would probably limit the number of candidates who can actually qualify. that being said, though, there are still a ton of candidates making of running. if you are at an incumbent

member of the house of representatives, running in a special election in the senate is like a free shot. you keep your job if you lose. there is little risk. and you might get a promotion to the united states senate, especially if you are a democrat, in such a blue state like new jersey. we see lots of members of congress contemplating it. i think congressman rush holt will guard dagger -- capturing signatures. congressman frank pallone is definitely in there. they will both have to contend with cory booker, the mayor of new york, new jersey, who is a pretty popular guy in the state --newark, new jersey. not happy.rats were they pointed to the cost but a 24 million. but why aren't democrats happy? guest: they are not happy because there is this theory that if the general election had been held on the same day as the regularly scheduled general election, the first tuesday after the first monday in

november -- this year it is november 5 -- that somehow that might have helped the democratic candidate for governor who is running against chris christie. polls show that chris christie is leading somewhere between 25- 30 points, running away with this thing. amazing amounts of money. a democratic candidate struggling to raise enough just to get matching funds. chris christie, as i say, he is way ahead. the thinking goes, if there were a senate race at the same time and somebody like a cory booker were on the ticket, a lot more democrats would turn out, would show up to cast ballots and maybe put chris christie's chances and a little jeopardy. i am not sure i buy that. let me tell you, the republicans are just as mad as chris christie, who, along with his announcement yesterday, said he would appoint a temporary placeholder who would hold the seat until the october 16 election. somebody, at least from what christie said, who would not be running for senate himself or

herself. that points to sort of an older statesman or somebody whose career is wrapping up and might want a few months in the world greatest deliberative body. the republicans wanted christie to appoint someone who could then run for the seat from a platform and be able to sort of have that little advantage of being the incumbent. i would point out, though, deval patrick, but governor of massachusetts, pointed to placeholders -- one to replace late senator ted kennedy and want to replace john kerry who quit his senate seat to take over as secretary of state, and he did not get as much heat on this from national democrats. i am not sure it national republicans should blame christie for this. it like christie portrayed it as a move that is best for the state of new jersey, and probably pretty good for his political fortunes, too. host: we are showing our viewers the editorial from "the star-ledger." christie's self-

serving stunt. very critical. and "the new york times" editorial -- governor christie's quick, costly decision. also critical of the governor's decision to hold at this national election in october, citing the price tag. you mentioned massachusetts and the race to fill senator john kerry's seat when he left to become secretary of state. there is a debate tonight between the two candidates. talk about what they need to do and what you will be listening for. guest: and it is broadcast on c- span. everybody, make sure you tune in. ed markey is the democratic candidate and he has been in office since 1977. he has not run a difficult race since 1984 when he decided to run for john kerry's senate seat the first time. he ended up dropping out before the primary and keeping his seat in congress. because he has not had a race and a while, he has been slow to get up to speed and campaigning.

shaking the rust off and traveling and doing what you need to do to build the foundations for a campaign in the future. what i am watching for tonight it's how he reacts to being up on stage next to an opponent. we will see how those interactions go. a lot of democrats are worried this is the first opportunity, probably the only opportunity the republican candidate a gomeze gomez -- gabriel to shake up the race. markey looks ahead and made to high single-digit. one poll, with a dubious methodology, showed him up a little higher. i think it is probably in the high single-digit range. gomez needs to do something to change the dynamic of the race, get people talking and getting people interested and sort of take advantage of the fact that ed markey really has not had to run a campaign in the last 30 years. i think what you will see ed markey per training gomez as a national republican who will

vote against president obama's agenda and the agenda advanced by mitch mcconnell and the national gop. you will see gomez talk about ed markey, the longtime politician who has been there forever and here inly -- the house chevy chase instead of one up in massachusetts. these are the attacks that have been going back and forth from both sides over the last couple of months. i think we will see a lot of that tonight. the question for me is how does markey respond and can gomez really shake up the race. , sir, for your time. appreciate it. coming up next, former congressman allen west, republican of florida, will join us to talk about issues you are seeing in the papers. the irs, benghazi, etc. and later ohio representative tim ryan about the state of manufacturing and jobs in the united states. we will be right back. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013]

>> caroline harrison was certainly an active participant in benjamin harrison's political life. i have just stepped out the door as benjamin harrison did many times to address the crowd that came to hear him speak when he was campaigning for the presidency. she was very much devoted to benjamin harrison and the ideals of his campaign. when she planned her inaugural address she wanted it to be designed and made in the united eight because benjamin harrison -- united states because benjamin harrison campaign advocated we become an independent nation. and she was willing to do her part to see that happen. this probably was one of caroline's favorite rooms in the house.

she loved to entertain. different groups came to hear benjamin harrison speak. one group that came with a group that harrison greatly admired and very much encouraged, and that was the black community in this area. and when he's fit -- when he finished speaking to them, and he invited them all to come into his home, which they did, and they shook hands with a benjamin harrison and caroline harrison as they walked through the house. this is benjamin harrison's favorite room, his library. how interesting, in his place -- we have caroline harrison's beautiful little desk. i think in this room probably benjamin drew a great deal of strength and comfort from having caroline). by.lose maybe she did not talk about what paper he was writing or what bill he was written on, but just looking up from his desk

and seeing his carrie was an encouragement. >> a conversation on caroline harrison is available on our website, www.c-span.org/first ladies. tune in monday for next program, first lady ida mckinley. " continues.journal host: we are back. we want to welcome a former congressman allen west, republican of florida and now the programming director at next-generation tv. we will talk about what you're to now here in washington. that's begin first with the military hearing yesterday on sexual assault in the military before the senate armed services committee dared all the top brass lined up at one table. what do you think? we were getting our viewers take of taking the legal authority away from commanders. what are your thoughts? guest: having been a commander at the captain level and lieutenant colonel level, the military invest a lot of resources in training to

managers. the pre-command courses you go through, understanding the legal system. if you start to take away that legal authority of the commanders, then you are going to our road his command climate and air rode his ability to truly and properly lead. we already see on the battlefield that commanders have to be second-guessed by a a lot of lawyers even on the battlefield, rules of engagement, things of that nature. if we start to extend it here on the domestic side of the house, we will further erode the command ability and i think destroyed the discipline of a lot of these units. look, there is no doubt you have instances where some commanders did not use the proper legal means and authorities. ucmj is very clear. when it comes to ringing up charges against someone, the convening authority, you have an inspector general that is the independent eyes and ears that people can go to if they feel that they are not getting their cases properly attended to or prosecuted. you have all of these checks and

balances in their. dc itcern is that -- in seems that if it is worth reacting to it is worth overreacting to. i think the first thought it is, i would like to know with these male, if they are the against female, which i think is focused on. when it is mail against female, i would like to know the ages. i would like to know the rank structure. if it is happening to some of the younger enlisted or younger officer females, that is where i think it has to start. i believe we need to have a more female drill instructors, more female instructors at college rotc and things of that nature to help the young female soldier, sailor, airman, marine, at the early transitional stages so you do not have this authority figure that can in some ways be against them. that is what we saw when i was

on the armed services committee. i sat on the subcommittee on military personnel, and we adjust the issue that happened that they air force at lackland air force base with the air force there. males being in charge of females in basic training. i think that is where we got to start. host: you heard senator mccaskill say she thinks a lot of the commanding officers are conflating sex and rape and making the to the same and one is a crime, one is about domination him and not about sex. guest: i would give you mine own experience. when i was a battalion commander at fort hood, texas, i had one female lieutenant who was in my unit and she was stellar. the executive officer -- second in command. she deployed with us to the national training center. she was superb. the command climate in my unit is is no one was going to harass her. she was just like any other officer and we were going to

respect her in that way. it really hurt a lot of the soldiers in our units when she was not allowed to play with us to iraq cause we were going into a combat zone. later on she asked me to write a letter of recommendation or her because she did a press transfer to military police. -- peopleearly clearly understand what harassment is. when you go to your pre--, and force training, when the army would go out to fort leavenworth, kansas, you have the legal briefings and they really explain to you these troubling issues as well as issues with drugs and things of that nature and how you should be prosecuted. host: women serving in the military. we heard from several callers this morning saying that is the problem. guest: i don't think it is a problem. i was commissioned in 1980 two. i have a lot of great friends who were female who served admirably. to --k when we talk

start talking about women serving in combat units, that is the step we have to look at are we ready to go there. general dempsey kind of alluded to even having to lower standards. when you look at the canadian army, they changed the standards to allow females to go into combat type units. your special operations, infantry. it is not about allowing women in the military. as a matter of fact, if you go back to molly pitcher at the battle of monmouth in the revolutionary war when her husband felt that she stepped in on the artillery gumline and we honor her with the molly pitcher award. do you think about senator saxby chambliss, his statement at the hearing saying it is because we've got these young 17-23 year old and it is hormone levels and that is what is to blame. hanginghat is the low fruit. if we want to say that, you have young staffers running around in washington, d c. i do not accept that.

the military is a different organization. very disciplined. in the military, unlike in congress, if you get a dui, that and your career. i do not think you see some of the behaviors you see in congress would be accepted in the military. so, we are asking these young men and women to do something that is extraordinary -- to guard and defend our rights and privileges. i do not think just pushing it off on hormones. it is really about allowing the military to have the right type of discipline the cost we are a close quarter type of organization. wants to know -- do you admit it has a problem? guest: i will not say it does not exist. when you talk about 24 house in cases -- funny 4000 cases, how big is the military? about 24,000alk cases, how big is the military? a million. but it only takes one bad apple

to tarnish a reputation in some peoples eyes. when you look at the military overall, we perform admirably. i for we are a reflection of the highest highest of discipline standards of this country. host: you are wearing pins on your lapel. guest: you never forget from whence he came. my top 10, army cover shooters and second one is navy marine corps parachutist. a lot asked me how do i have two. i was elected to go to camp lejeune, north carolina, with the marines on an exchange so i earned my navy marine corps gold wings there. host: another issue. a few were tweets in -- the gang of eight immigration plan. guest: the first thing we've got to start with, we've got to support -- secure our borders. it is interesting -- i am from south florida and miami is in the nba finals. when teams get behind, you always hear the commentators say don't try to win it in the next

whatever minutes. take it piece by piece, stay with your plan and make sure you score and whittle it down. i think this gang of a plan is all of a sudden they have fallen behind and they are trying to shoot a bunch of three-pointers and they are not hitting. the we have to secure the borders. i believe we cannot look at bringing in another 12, 30 million people on another social welfare system that is already broken. on socials been welfare programs and now she's trying to help other people. we have to fix our legal emigration. i like to see a phased immigration. the american people are tired of

these 900-page bills. host: this is the headline in " the washington times" this morning. tos bill is supposed to come the floor next week. tighten theto legislation when it comes to border security, " marco rubio. all but politics from both sides. maintaining a hold on hispanic votes. the other side believes they need to be competitive. we should be doing something good for this country. is not justgration

about people who want to cut your grass or babysit your kids. has paul lott is operating in isbollah rica -- has block operating in latin america. mexican drug cartels were working with iranian agents. we need to do what is right for this country. happenedther hearing yesterday on capitol hill. about $4. spent million on a california junket. i want to ask about the politics of this. eissa is looking into

this. are you concerned there is some overreach here? guest: no. you have the right to petition your government for redress of and grievances. thee is a different in political philosophies -- i think jim mcdermott tried to make those individuals out to be guilty instead of seeing them as being targeted by this onerous operation. this was one of the letters that was received. i will share it with you. these are just everyday americans. these are not big organizations.

this is about protecting american people. host: how were you able to get a hold of those questions? guest: she wanted to speak with me. i will give it to you and makes sure the other americans see that. host: this is one of the witnesses at the hearing yesterday. these are the questions she was asked by the i.r.s. guest: you can see who was sent from and that it came from the cincinnati office. looked get some of those questions. it goes above and beyond what was necessary. we do not want to have fraudulent organizations.

you could be punished with perjury. that is intimidation. calls.et's get to phone caller: good morning. i am so sorry you lost reelection. guest: i can hang out with greta. caller: that works. what have other countries done with military -- women in the military. how has it been addressed? any recommendations? thank you again a very much. in thewe have had women military for some time in the

united states. we have seen more integrating. you didn't have females going s.t in marine expedition now you see women commanding destroyers and cruisers. there is talk about putting women in submarines. we have to start thinking about what that means for standards and about the close quarters. combat pilot in the air force. pilots -- wechy pilots in cobras. there is no clear delineation of

the line. women are serving welcome the combat zones in iraq and afghanistan. do we want to take that to the next level and talk about women and our special operations units and our infantry units? the most important thing is that we do not have lowered standards. host: we're learning that tom donilon will be stepping down and will be replaced by susan rice. what to make of the present cost move?s guest: he gets what he wants. look what has happened in the middle east. radical islamism has taken a foothold.

we have to the muslim brotherhood in charge of egypt. out of taken our troops iraq. we were asked not to do that because it would create a vacuum. syria. encased in russia it is talking about sending aircraft systems into syria. the president is supposed to sit down with the president of china. china is behind these cyber attacks. china is going after islands in japan. .hey are moving into india they are building up their military.

there is a failing farm policy coming out of this administration. a fairly foreign policy coming out of this administration. has caller: i have always like d you. i am a moderate. what thellusioned with administration is doing. russia sent planes that look like dual-tail f-15's. nes. are very effective plain q got to take out these dictators when they are teetering. we do not target leaders for snipers. we

can send a ragtag band in thei re. we can roll the dice on what we get next. windowmy concern is the of opportunity for being a engaged in syria. of government is being supported in syria. al qaeda it is back. you talk about giving weapons to the "rebel forces." how do we make sure that they are not going to turn those weapons on each other? we do not want to see assad remained in power. syria is not going to be like

libya. 300.talk about the s- israel said they do not want that system to be there. go back and look at what happened when the soviet union pulled out of afghanistan. we had a window of opportunity to engage. from we have a tweet smiley. budget whenssed a the senate was not passing a budget. we have done things in terms of supporting our military. we're slowing down the rate of

spending up and washington, d.c. % tos somewhere between 23 24.5%. we need to get the government spending back down to a normal rate, somewhere between 18-21%. everyone is talking about how great the dow jones industrial average is. in : this is from a piece "the washington post."

host: "a speech was an attempt to change the subject. let's talk about the student loan issue. the affordable care act took the loans up to 6.8%. we voted to bring that down to 3.4%. intern.care about an as ais reprehensible to me former military guy. code.e by a simple

we do not leave anybody behind. there was a firefight. the greatest nation in the world didn't do anything. where was the president and what did he do? he turned over to panetta and then sedempsey. host: it does not appear to be having an impact on the president. palled do not blame him the president for the i.r.s. and what happened in benghazi. hearinghich is had a yesterday, senate armed services committee. you solve all the generals lined up. members of the senate or at

chastising them. you'll tell me the four-star generals are accountable for all those actions? why is it the commander in chief is not responsible for the same thing's happening in his demonstration? this is an object innocence or complicity. either one is bad. we keep making excuses. the president is not responsible for the command climate is administration. that is hypocrisy. caller: i want to ask allen west a few questions. is it not true you resign from the military rather than face a trial?

resigned, you received your full military benefits? guest: q. have misinformation. i went through an article 32 a hearing. there was no point of continuing on. the current chief of staff of the army was my division commander and he find me -- fined me $5000. honorable discharge. military pension intact. host: you are in washington. guest: i am your neighbor. i was brought on by fox news as a contributor.

doing a lot of speaking. monday night, i finished a manuscript for a book. we will see when the publisher " get that out. tweetyou put out an yesterday. guest: soldiers have a wicked prankster type of humor. it was interesting to see the return comments. about?hat is the book guest: it is about me growing my, my military time, political philosophy, and being an american statesman. host: what about your political

future? guest: i do not know. we'll see what happens. still on the table for you. guest: you are a fishing. host: that is my job. guest: dogcatcher, whenever. host: the florida governor is looking for a lieutenant governor. .our name was floated are you interested? twot: i have a wife and daughters i have to talk to. alk about wanted to t the disabled veterans that are

not in getting benefits. about thel in orlando this silly that is over three years behind. obama has not done anything in to help us. the member has worked hard in the house of representatives. all like to hear some comments on that please. guest: jack kingston inches had an amendment passed on the house side that would force the v.a. 24% reduction -- 40% reduction in the lifetime for veterans' claims to be attended to. we have to move away from the " paper trail.

servicesjoint armed committee and veterans affairs committee hearing back when i was in congress. ofhave to do a better job transitioning these young wounded warriors that are coming off active duty over to the v.a. we have to make sure those records are properly care for. tome, it is reprehensible -- to reprehensible. we have to do better. host: we are talking with former congressman allen west. generationat next .tv. caller: good morning.

is economy in florida recreation, snowbirds, that kind of thing. gives george bush, who got more than 4000 americans killed in iraq. you are considering going after killedor four americans in benghazi. i do not understand where the rub is. guest: president george bush did go to congress and congress did authorize that action. in benghazi, former congressman dennis kucinich and i came together on a piece of legislation that the president violated the war powers act.

he never came to congress. this is the point we have to get to with benghazi. why was ambassador chris stevens in benghazi, a hotbed of radical islam? i've been at in combat zones on 9/11. just a mission of trouble. we should not have had it high value target trouble into a dangerous area without the amount of a security. that is the number-one question we have to ask. why was it we do not come to the support of americans that were under attack. that is not who we are. you saw how strongly the special operators fought in the battle of mogadishu because leave no

one behind. from massachusetts. caller: good morning. i was going to hang up. your going to ask about aspirations for the future. for yourto thank you service to the country. i admire your conservative ideas. inwas a sad day back november when someone like you can get voted out of office on to same day that alan gracon get voted back into office. i'm just worried about the country. yourted to thank you for

service and i think you're a great american. guest: the measure of a man is how many times you get back up. host: this headline on friday herald." miami the chief of staff, abruptly resigned. what do you think about this? it says murphy has not been implicated. guest: i'm not going to worry about that. i am sure the investigators will press on and maybe people will look into that.

the recordsess to and the registration and everything and based upon the congressional district elections. there was some mcfarlane activities that one on down there. people will get to the bottom of it. host: we have a tweet. deployedwas probably and so maybe i was around some of those attacks. you start talking about the tanzania.n mumbai and terrorist look at the action that is going on. to lasteen 30, 35 years time we lost an ambassador.

jim. this is a tweet from guest: it is not on the dish. on the fourth of february and is doing well. we're very pleased. was started when dan rather made the comment about these people out of here in their pajamas blogging. it has been around for eight years. host: debbie from houston, texas. caller: good morning. thank you for your service. i'm so depressed you not voted back in.

ist.not a conspiracy is i'm sorry. when this president has done is terrible. i do not think he is for this country. i think he was planted. he is destroying our way of life. guest: the most important thing is to look at policy. shulman policies -- mr. was over there and maybe he was talking about tax reform. tove not talked about going wait flat tax or a fair tax system. our smallmake sure businesses are able to grow? how do we do away with the

loopholes so we can inspire that economic growth and make sure we have a tax code that is fair and that people can understand. we have got to do something about our energy resources in. january 2009, $1.84. we have the keystone pipeline. we have great allies to the north. expanded energy resources in this country. i'm concerned about our foreign policy. we have u.s. naval vessels that cannot sail. other people are watching that. that is be something

his death by 1000 the cuts. host: hi, ron. caller: good morning. i have a couple of questions. we will start with the serious thing. 80,000 people have died, you say, over there in the past two years. if you take the amount of people that have died from not having health care in the united states and have died from gun violence, you want to give handguns to the rebels. you don't know who they are. guest: i am a concealed at weapons licensed carrier in florida. we have a pretty good gun registration program in florida.

i have had weapons of wanted to give to another person and we fbi to go through the background checks to do that. see aals will always means by which they can get guns. that is what we should be focused on. we have to fix the health care system. the secretary of health and once upon aces -- time it was acknowledged and affordability. now will cost -- now it will trillion. seee, i don't

anything. he has inspired young men to achieve whatever heights they someoneuse they see like him in the white house. children in the black community with mothers and fathers in the home. that is an epidemic. host: former congressman allen west, thank you very much. he is the programming director at next generation tv. hallg next, tim ryan talked about the state a a manufacturing and jobs in the united states. later, there is a piece about "death-proofing" cities in "discover" magazine.

>> how to what house official said tom donilon is resigning and will be replaced by his susan rice. she has been criticized for initial accounting of the attacks on the u.s. compound in libya. president obama is expected to announce this decision at 2:15 this afternoon. we will bring that to you live. the federal reserve is expected to issue in the latest in a beige book this afternoon. a gauge of service sector activity will be released. first quarter productivity and factory orders. he former chief executive of newsrt murdoch's

international has pleaded not guilty to hacking. it was revealed that journalists news of the world routinely hacked into the coin voice-mail messages of the rich and powerful. some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. is live all weekend. jacobsonnclude walter and shelley murphy on gangster while the bolger -- whitey bulger. on and winston churchill, clive this weekend on

c-span2. "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with representatives tim ryan. he represents the 13th district in ohio. welcome back. president obama will be meeting with the chinese leader and there will talk about relations between the countries. a lot on the table. what do you want the president to say to him? guest: the president has done a good job in trying to level the playing field with the chinese. the chinese have been dumping products -- tires, although supply parts -- auto supply parts.

dealve benefited a great by the tariffs on steel tubing that was coming in. over a billion dollar investment in a steel mill in ohio. i hope the president continues policyhat line of initiatives in leveling the playing field and tell the chinese he will continue to do that. i hope he mentions the currency manipulation that has been going on. it has damaged our ability to export. host: how does a damage? explain how it works. thet: you can go into market and buy and sell currency. the chinese have done that to keep the price of their currency

artificially low. when the export products, the products start cheaper than they should be. mpany.e a co the chinese make a similar product. product plans on the shores and it is the same cost. that is how significant an advantage you can gain by manipulating your currency. it would level the playing field and help support u.s. manufacturing. host: we heard about legislation to make the chinese act. guest: we cannot get a vote in the house now. the democrats have a vote a year or two ago.

senator schumer had a bill. we had a vote in the house in 2010. we had 350 votes. these bills have bipartisan support and regional support. we cannot get a vote or a hearing in the house. host: what is holding this back? the control of the house and senate has changed. guest: this is an issue that fades away when different issues,, like the budget and tax reform. it comes and goes. you have to be vigilant. let's get it through the senate and see what we can do. we need the support of the

administration. this is a touchy subject for the chinese. we are not practicing protectionism. they are. we are trying to be a global player. they need to play by the rules. writes aboutulson the upcoming meeting. americans need direct investment from china. about a lack of clarity. the chinese want more transparency in the united

states system. system his so dark. you cannot tell what is going on. transparency, i don't know if we want to take our advice from the chinese. anneed to make sure we have engaged policy which china. i think it has more to do with how we handle our cells at home and with what kind of investments we make here home. ermany is exporting high-end products to china. i think we can have a similar success. thef become dependent on chinese labor force. it's not prevent us from making

investments here at home. we'll always have entanglement's globally. here's a headline that many of our viewers probably saw yesterday. 40%.pped below you have this from the bureau of labor statistics. 6 million jobs lost between 2000 and 2009. what is happening? strategy.ve not had a we see the general motors and the chevy cruz had an increase year to year. look at ford and chrysler. they have had increases.

there doing fairly well in auto industry. in thecontracted by 8% or so.uarter are so ho we need to get the global house in order before we get manufacturing back. i think we need to pass the president's initiative for these 15 manufacturing institutes. youngstown, in ohio. it is our next to a business incubator. we of global companies that are interested. seamans came in. schools withcts in

three-dimensional printing and to make sure we get kids excited about it so we can develop the ecosystem. we need these targeted investments. the president wants 15 of these. we need to move on this. this is something the germans have done, to get the manufacturing culture altogether to be innovative. they call this in germany a technology bridge. the goats to prototyping and the process and how you produce the product. you have a smart people from industry and academia helping cultivate that system while you are training the workers. it is a national strategy. that is what the president wants to initiate. host: jim is our first caller.

caller: hey. thank you for taking my call. guest: hi, jim. caller: where are the jobs? promising them for last five years and we haven't seen nothing but how 2- minimum wage jobs. guest: i argued that the recovery act was too small. i thought it needed to be double the size. many economists were saying the recovery act was " too small and we would have a year or two of growth and then it would level off and we would have a stagnant economy and nobody knows how long it will be.

mightof people said we end up like japan andin the 1990's. it means investment and infrastructure. infrastructure deficit. we also have high unemployment in the building trade. we could put people back to work. these projects need to get done. these projects will be much cheaper than we have to do than five years from now when labor and material costs will be more. everything will cost more in five years. be long-term will

economic growth. is we have tog make investments in research and development. we have to make sure we're promoting the next generation of whenever, clean manufacturing. if we do not make these investments, somebody else is going to make them. it hereto manufacture but you have to make the investments here early. twitter.s comes in on been a problem for a long time. here is the thing. companies or not going to bring the jobs back to

the united states. if you're paying somebody $1 or you have a big a vanished if your manufacturing a pen. how do we do cars or high-speed rail? how do we make three-dimensional printers? clean we make the manufacturing products that will save us energy in the long run? that needs to be our strategy. we cannot compete in a global economy. 1940's, do in the 1950's, and 1960's. they are low.

which isgoing optup, good. that is beginning to level the playing field. shipping costs are so much. we have a strategy. host: that is a headline in wall " journal."treet most line american countries have benefited from cheap labor in china, mexico is different. changedation has decades later. that is a high oil prices is made transportation more expensive.

that a movesrned from china to mexico? andst: it is a bit closer has more impact on our economy. it will benefit all of the border regions. inhave a vested interest making sure mexico has a strong economy. oft reduces the likelihood someone crossing the border and coming into the united states. we hurt him a lot of farmers and that increased immigration. nafta is goodeel or bad for the u.s. worker? you can come to youngstown or warren, ohio.

significantved a amount of work into the border regions of mexico and then went to china. we have seen at the movement of jobs because of nafta. it is one thing if you're trading with a country like ermany where you are on par with those issues. our manufacturing has suffered. look at germany. thee is ways to maintain high level of manufacturing. you need strong policies to make that happen. massachusetts. caller: thank you for taking my call. i always listen to the house of representatives. i have been bothered about the

madement that allen west when said there was 89 members of the communist party and i wonder if you have any comment about that. been: i think mr. west has known for making those kinds of comments, which is fine. we have free speech in america. they are not common misheard -- communist. no one is saying that the government should own general electric or the general motors. they talk about where socialist and this and that. america is a free enterprise capitalistic country. we of many who think the marketent's -- private holes in it.

thed hear some of conversation about inequality and poverty. the republican budget will cut headstart and a lot of these programs that will help people bounce themselves out of poverty, starting with a good hot meal and basic health care while you're young. that is not communism. that is a smart investment. make sure those people have an opportunity to move up. a market ranks about eighth or ninth compared to the european countries -- america ranks eighth or ninth compared to the european countries.

i think that is a major problem. host: janet, hi. caller: hello? host: you are on the air with representative tim ryan. economy tankedthe i assume that rather than putting money into the banks, why didn't obama as do the same thing that fdr did, rebuild our bridges and make our highways safer? why didn't he do that? chinese should let the come here and build fast riails and charge tolls. guest: there were many in the

house who said this needs to be double the size for the stimulus package, as the recovery act. many people in the demonstration calculated going over $1 trillion was politically unfeasible and back down. hole ins a $3 trillion the economy. many of those investments should have spent in infrastructure. .ost: we have a tweet guest: investments and infrastructure create jobs. they put companies to work and building trades to work. roads and bridges and painting

the bridges and building the bridges and all of the earth movement that needs to happen. if you have a strong buy american prison, the steel will come from the united states and you will see that a ripple effect in the economy. host: tom is next from pennsylvania. caller: good morning. you mentioned the german economy. thegerman economy -- powerful money consider it their duty to watch after the middle class. they note that is their base -- is their that that

base. the life out of the economy. there is a big difference if you compare the germans to us. more than weeed us need them. they do not have a market to sell their goods. we have the market. we still left a strong enough middle class to buy products. they don't have any such thing over there. --st: potter that is agreed part of that is greed. the other part is how our system is set up. get the small and

local banks capitalized to make some of these loans that need to be made to small and private businesses? that will grow the manufacturing sector. again, back to what i think the crux is the national strategy that germany has by cultivating the private and public partnerships. you start picking a track in high school in the eighth or ninth grade. track.any, you're on a then you start working your way with your parents and the counselors. kidsnk that would help

ready to go to work. host: what about consumer demand? this is the headline. amendemand -- we up. wagees to go part of that is the minimum wage. we hear about people being critical about people on the public dole. there are millions of americans that are underemployed and worked very hard. there will be demand for cars and homes. still buypeople would cell phones and spend money on

things that we'll spend money on. if you move the minimum wage up the averageour, household would have more money to spend. a loan anddy to get by a house. you can still buy a cheap products coming in. connecticut. caller: good morning. there was a vote in the senate in october that was -- we pay manufacturerscan to go to china. there was a vote to cut debt and to pray for the companies to come back to america. that was quoted down by

misconduct, and john mccain, the guys from alabama. the guy from alabama and i called about the job-seekers. maybe if they put a jobs bill out there and maybe work together to close the loophole that we paid for them to go to china. it is ridiculous. guest: i agree. supply sideaced economics as a country. our financial industry and some of that will lead to bo to bom. om. theas been a boon for wealthy but a bus for everybody else. we need a demand side investment strategy into the united states.

tweet.e have a what is to prove that the stimulus money worked? that were jobs created. we went from hemorrhaging hundreds of thousands of jobs per month to however many months of consecutive job growth. it is not to say that the recovery act did not work, you are just using partisan talking points. any objective analyst will say that the recovery act help to the economy straight for many months. my argument is that what we did got us to this point where we are not leading and hemorrhaging jobs, but if we would have made an additional $1 trillion in investment, projects that would have needed to get done, these

projects need to get done. we have got to do them at some time. at some point in our country's short-term future. why not do that now? the government can borrow the money at 1%. up.r is going to go material costs are going to go up. if you have a home, you might as well try to fix your leaking roof. and we have high unemployment. what are we going to do? wait five years, 10 years? when interest rates are not 1% or 2%? i recognizeime -- we have got to deal with long- term deficits, but we have a jobs issue now, so we might take as the demise of take care of

these in the short term. >> senators alexander, colburn, and bird are writing in today's "the new york times." they say they have introduced a proposal that will get rid of the arbitrary way that interest rates are determined and instead allow them to be set by the market. we commend president obama for introducing a similar proposal." do you agree? guest: i do not know their proposal, exactly, but it is a good investment to keep interest rates low for our students. i believe that there should be loans directly from the government to the student. i do not think the banks should be involved in this at all. no one should be making money. the banks had a really sweet deal loaning money to students. when they defaulted they would get paid anyways. a pretty good deal. the democrats came in and got the banks out of the student loan business.

i think that a direct loan to a student is the best way to do it. host: the opinion piece from these republican senators today, "we are worried that the issue could be voted on as early as this week and it will merely extend the existing our retreat rate for a minority of loans, something that will hurt students in the long run." and pennsylvania, hello. caller: can you hear me? host: we can, you are on the air. like to ask ad question. if you are working tomorrow, you should ask where we would be now if it was not for the recovery act? iis is one of the questions want tim ryan to ask. where would we be without the

recovery act? we would be in bad shape. also, these congressman the did not support any of the president's bills for jobs, universal health care, head start program, universal head start program for kids, they do not want anything that is good for this country, these republicans. mitch mcconnell? my god, he is a disgrace. lincoln is from kentucky, rolling in his grave over mitch mcconnell. thank you. guest: i think the economy, we would have been in a free-fall for many, many more months. there would have been a lot more destruction and foreclosures. i think that states, who knows what would have happened to many states. i know that ohio got about $8 billion from the recovery act.

that would have been a huge, huge loss. the state had already made huge cuts. part of the recovery bill with state support. a lot of states did not even have to make a greater number of cuts because of the recovery act. we would have been in a much worse shape and we would have dragged the global economy into a deeper, deeper depression, that is probably where we would have ended up, a long-term depression, who knows where we would be today. >> tommy, new york, republican caller. i think you're wrong, the country is not socialist but it is tilting towards communist. the liberal democratic way does not work. they talk about jobs, what about the pipeline that could create thousands of jobs and with all of the power the pipeline runs

through, those towns could be boosted by the working people there and the people who would spend money making money? these green jobs are never going to happen. they are just fantasies. they keep saying that they cannot do the pipeline because it is not green, but just do it. just do it. that would create jobs. you talk about the housing market? that was ruined by a liberal democrat, barney frank. the caller before said -- why not do it like fdr? it fdr, when he did his moves everything was from scratch. there were no highways in certain areas. there was no tennessee electric co.. start somewhere, he

started and created jobs. guest of the pipeline is one issue that might create some jobs, but that is certainly not a long-term strategy for economic growth in the united states. as you look at countries like germany, you will see that the renewables sector of the economy can grow, but you have got to invest in it. start somewhere,you talked aboe valley and some of the projects that came out of the new deal. the government has a responsibility to make investments where private sector companies are not going to make those investments or cannot afford to make those investments. yes, we should invest into alternative energy technologies. we should invest in to renewables. is everyone going to make it? no, absolutely not. there were a lot of failures when we went to the moon, but i do not think it is in the best interest of america or reflective of the american spirit to say that that will never happen. that we will never be able to clean up the environment.

we got referred back to where we have been. that is not the mentality of america. this is risky, there are investments that need to be made. valley and some ofcompanies tham these investments. we can not lack for it -- cannot let court -- cannot lack courage here. we cannot just assume that there will be a strong middle-class and america will be strong again. we had a calculated strategy from post-world war ii through the 1980's. we invested in infrastructure. we had a moderate tax plan for the wealthiest americans. we thrived. and then we got away from it, and now here we are wondering how we got here. it is because the strategy that has been implemented does not work. most of the vice-president of the united states' rights in "americans ascendant," the piece

from "the wall street journal," this morning -- host: vice president biden writes in " americans ascendant," the piece from "the wall street journal," this morning. guest: what are the labor laws going to look like? we would support trade agreements if we were on par with labor standards and environmental standards. if we are not, it drives investment into these other countries, which we want and can benefit from, but not at the expense of the american worker. ,n the process we have nafta most favored trade status with china, deals did not protect the american middle-class and manufacturing base.

host: what is next in the trade deals in the western hemisphere? guest: i am not sure. it could be interesting head of the german study group, something that could be very interesting because european countries in the transatlantic relationship that we have have strong labor laws, but even countries like germany are doing very, very well. a lot of folks who like to say hi unionization, taxes, regulation, cannot have a successful economy, but germany has proven that not to be true. you can have a strong social middle-class with justice. host: cassandra is next in grand junction, colorado. democratic caller. hello, cassandra. you are on the air. caller: right. , including canada

sending over all the work we do across the ocean, it might behoove us a little bit to send some to the people we share our borders with. when we unite and find out what we have in common, that we are a more united people, like europe, maybe we would be in better shape, financially, not banning other people's, the people of we share a border with, the languages and their ways, because we can learn a lot. congressman? guest: i agree. that is close to home. that was the strategy with naphtha, integrating the -- that area of the world, the north atlantic region.

in some ways it has been successful, in other ways not. yes, think that cultivating relationships, especially with immigration, those workers are one to look for someplace to go and the natural place would be the united states, who has a vested interest in helping the economy stabilizes so that those workers and stay with their families. from "ere is a headline to the hill," "paul ryan starts the deliberation process to fund the federal government." then there is this headline, "gop threatens irs purse strings." now the gop is saying they have to go after their funding. what do you think? guest: if there is waste in the irs, i am all for it.

i think it should happen. i am very concerned, as are many others, about the operations of the irs. i am a proud democrat but i think that a republican should have their right in america to speak their piece and form their organizations and get their voice out. that is what america is all about. democrats and republicans have to protect that. if there are shenanigans going on over there, congress needs to look closely at it. host: at their funding? guest of junkets and things like that. -- guest: junkets and things like that. at the same time, we do not have enough ira's people to find people paying taxes. it is not fair for my constituents to play by the rules and send their money in every year, because someone has enough resources to hire a

fancy lawyer or accountant to be able to manipulate the system and we do not have enough agents working for the irs to go after them, that is a whole other issue. i do not want to see this issue getting demagogued. we are talking in public about his trip to california or whenever it is, i have not seen it, this trip, but behind the scenes it is about making sure the people not pay taxes. my autoworkers in youngstown are going to pay their taxes. a single mom working as a waitress is going to pay her taxes. we should have enough agents in place to make sure that everyone else does as well. host: congressman tim ryan is a co-chair of the manufacturing caucus and represents the 13th district. thank you for your time. coming up next, spotlight on

magazine series continues, we will speak with offer -- author elie -- annalee newitz, her article is about deathproofing a city. first, an update from c-span radio. >> lawmakers consider legislation that would take away overturn ahority to conviction in cases. they would consider a defense policy bill. the hearing will be live on c- span 3 television starting at 10:00 this morning. the securities and exchange commission is expected to propose more strict regulations for money-market mutual funds, allowing shares to float instead of having a fixed value of $1 per share. further values would make funds more like bonds.

with increases or decreases in the interest rates. finally the pakistani prime minister is calling for an end to drum strikes. he gave few details on how he might bring an end to the strikes, which many call an affront to the sovereignty of the country. the u.s. considers these strikes vital to battling militants. some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. that it is not as dramatic and frequently the words of the pursuer fall on deaf ears. but we have no more urgent task. some think that speaking of peace will be useless until the

leaders of the soviet union adopt a more enlightened the -- enlightened attitude. i hope they do. and i think we can help them do it. but i also believe that we must be examine our own attitudes as individuals and a nation, for our attitude is as essential as theirs. whoy thoughtful citizens despairs war and wishes to bring peace should bite -- should begin by looking inward. host of veteran journalists reflect on the kennedy presidency and his peace speech , sunday on c-span 3, american history tv. >> "washington journal" continues. host: on wednesday is the last hour of the washington journal, we take a look at recent magazine articles as part of our spotlight on magazine series. today we have annalee newitz

from san francisco, very early, good morning, for recent piece based on a new book for " discover" magazine. it is called "how humans will survive a mass extinction." the headline is "how to death .roof" a city why use that language? guest: there have been several mass extinctions in the history of the earth. events were over 75% of a species die out over the period of a million years. very short in july to a times, obviously quite long in human times. most of these extinctions were brought about by climate change. there is a lot of evidence now

that humans might be about to enter a new phase of mass extinction. partly the proof is that we are seeing climate changes. part of it is elevated extinction levels among animals. we are seeing more animals going extent than we might expect. so, the evidence is mounting that we are looking down the barrel of this kind of disaster and the question is -- how should we as humans respond? that is part of what i am interested in tackling. host: you write in your piece, based on your new book, that to safeguard the future of our urban citizens, cities must be healthier and more alive. you call them biological cities. what do you mean? guest: i am talking about the fact that cities are the places where most people will be living in the coming centuries. right now already over half the

world's population lives in cities. the estimate is that 67% of the population of the world will be living in cities by 2050. cities areed states the source of a huge amount of our gdp. so, these are very important areas to focus on if you want to see the future of humanity progress. proposals the make and the low water scientists, urban designers, and architects are making as well, we need to push our cities toward being more survivable. something as simple as being whiched for disasters, could mean re-engineering buildings that already exist, making emergency evacuation plans more widely available to

the populace so that people know what to do, but looking to the far future, one of the things i do in my work, you are also looking at the materials that make cities out of. that is where the biological idea comes in. because right now in research laboratories across the country and the world we are seeing the development of what are called self healing or smart materials. things like cement that can heal itself. the idea is to create cities that are sustainable. we do not have to keep knocking down and building new things. we actually have structures that damage andagainst the ravages of time. part of this biological city will also involve new kinds of fuels, like say biofuels that might be grown in and around cities.

host: so, we're talking with annalee newitz about her new book. if you want to call in with your questions, for republicans, 202- 585-3881. for democrats, 202-585-3880. for independents, 202-585-3882. i was just about to ask you, will our cities look any different than they do now? guest: that is a really good question. when you're looking ahead to stay 50 years from now, if we start using more bio material and self dealing material, cities will look similar to now, but the difference would be that if a bridge developed a crack, the crack would seal itself up. you might start to see the scars on your bridges or buildings, but over time, say looking 150 years out, which again is the far horizon, but that is what we

are looking at with some of the finance today, you might start to see cities that look like they are covered in and vines or algae because there is a very good chance that the cornerstone of a future city might be something like a genetically engineered algae that can do anything from provide fuel to .ater purification the images have ultimate close -- you might just are to have algae that glows. cities might start to look like a ruined. outside that might look scarred and puckered, but inside you would have amazing access to technology. it would look awful on the outside but be amazing on the

inside. host: the title of the piece is "how to deathproof our city." "scatter,k, called that, and remember, how humans will survive a mass extinction." our guest, with over a decade of experience in writing about science, culture, and the future. who are also the founding editor of science website, i09.com? >> that is right. we cover futuristic science and pop culture. you can find everything from stories about bill latest scientific innovations to the latest star trek movie. host: robert, go ahead. you are on the air. caller: good morning. i am interested in knowing how but emily could revive a city like detroit, michigan, which is

already dying from within and has lost over half of its population since 1980. i have noticed graved urban decay in that city over the last couple of decades. how should she resolve that situation in detroit in particular? guest: a good question. detroit is always given as a classic example of a city in decline. it is the case if you look at how cities function over the long term and look at a city like, for example, istanbul, the way that a city surprise for a very long time is by constantly changing not just its urban lay out, but also the kinds of economic production that it engages in.

it changes the relationship that it has with other cities and nations around. detroit in the short term is looking at some pretty tough times, but i think that over the long term will have to happen is detroit will need to have new industries develop to revitalize the city, developing new relationships with the cities around it. it is not something that can happen overnight. it has to be part of a long-term plan for revitalizing that city. it always comes back to -- cities have to be flexible when it comes to the kinds of cities they are cultivating. just like an -- just like an ecosystem needs diversity, cities to as well. one of the problems is that it has been focused heavily on one theicular industry, so

first thing that needs to happen is diversification. in regard is the role to the mass extinction of urban areas? the role ofl it is allowvernment to scientists to do the kind of really fundamental basic research that will allow us in 50 years or 100 years to lose our dependence on polluting, awful by product materials, but i also think it is the government's role to participate in coming up with better city planning. that city planning is everything from how the city is designed for people to how the city

invests in businesses. i do not mean to say that the government should control the businesses in the city, but part of the government's role should be nurturing that economic diversity and should be part of a long-term plan. it should never be a plan to depend on one particular type of way for people to make a living. host: you write about this in your book and it is featured in the peace, a subterranean city. can you explain? guest: yes. when you look at mass extinction, a huge global destruction event, one of the possibilities for the human future is that we would have to move underground. the kinds of disasters that might cause that would be a radiation disaster, maybe caused by war or industrial accident. a nearbyn caused by

star exploding and shooting camera is at our atmosphere, which has happened in earth's history. it sounds like a michael bay movie, but it could really happen and is something we have to think about. in that case if you want to be protected against radiation a great way to do that is to have a couple of feet of rock between you and the radiation source, which is why underground cities are such an appealing idea in coping with this kind of disaster. what is interesting is that these futuristic stories of living underground depict this horrific, terrible life. we are all went to mutate and become a terrible fascist monsters when we live underground, but that absolutely does not have to be the case. there have been underground cities that have thrived and been esthetically pleasing. central turkey, where there are a number of

that wered cities built years ago by people suffering from rotors coming into the city, killing people and stealing things. they were able to, because of the soil in the area, dig down beneath their houses and create cities that were able to hold up to 20,000 people in some cases. they had stable's come winery's come a public meeting areas. everyone with a house above ground headquarters belowground and they managed to live in them for months of the time. the have ventilation shafts, which was how they did it. it was a way for them to ward off attack. a similar thing could be done for them now if we were to refer this, let's say, mining shafts, train tunnels, or even underground structures beneath

the home. it is happening and lot in high density areas. instead of building out, they're building down. it is partly a purely defensive idea. where would we go? about thinking about how we use the space. there are a lot of designers that think about how to make an underground city a place to likethe does not feel you're going to turn into one of these mutants. one tip that i will share is the biggest problem people have a living underground is they feel like everything looks the same. like they are always walking down hallways that always look the same, so the number one recommendation for building an underground city is to create neighborhoods. create neighborhoods that look

dramatically different from each other so that people have the sense of being in a civilization or a city instead of feeling like they are in a giant underground bunker. host: if you are just joining us and wondering why we are talking about living underground, annalee newitz is writing in "discover" magazine. inside she writes about "how to death-proof a city." based on her new book, "scatter, adapt, and remember." dan, tennessee, thanks for hanging on the line. caller: i have worked at his job for 35 years. the baby boomers started to leave, they stop hiring blacks. was worried about the

provocations against the blacks. i began to ask questions. the first lieutenant i asked, they said the job i had, that we could not work out here. he questioned my intelligence because i was 19 when i started. host: tie this to what we're talking about. guest: i went to arkansas and i called steve cornyn's office. host: what about social issues impact in the future in changing of our city -- cities? guest: it is a huge issue. obviously racism has been a huge issue in cities and the labor force in the past and i think that going forward we will start

to see new kinds of social issues emerge, where we need to be thinking about how can communities work together to make cities healthier of economically in terms of making sure that the actual population is getting jobs in the city and is getting fed, but also in the terms of how you think about the city as an organism. for example, cities will likely be a locus for future and amex, where disease breaks out because people are in such close quarters. people think of that as a health problem or finance problem, but it is actually much more of a social problem, because we need to get people working together to do things like get vaccinated to protect their neighbors. not just to protect themselves, but when you get vaccinated you prevent a disease from passing on. by the same token me to think

about how city's emergency services would coordinate in order to get vaccines to people or if it is too late to get vaccines, their fees to people to deal with whatever pandemic strain we're looking at. it is very tempting when looking at a city to think of it as one part of it is just engineering, infrastructure, and just scientific stuff. then over here unrelated are these unharmed social issues like the caller -- are these social issues like the caller was bringing up around how jobs are allocated. those issues are absolutely connected. part of the goal of having a living city is creating cities that actually do care for the people that live in them, right down to feeding those people. a city of the future needs to have farms around it so that that city is actually providing

food. not necessarily for free, although -- although that would be nice if we lived in utopia, but the food is local and nearby so that there is not a situation where the people who are starving -- where there are people starving while others need fancy down the street. host: the city needs to become more of a coherent social organism? you talk about in the magazine article using a skyscraper that has solar powered forms on the outside. cities of the future might feed themselves by creating forms inside of enormous glass wall skyscrapers. all of the water would be recycled and the structure itself would be designed to be carbon neutral. guest: that is definitely a possibility. whoe are a lot of people

talk about skyscraper farms and it is a fantastic idea and illustrates one i am talking about, the idea of a city that can feed itself. another idea is that they will be very high-tech at the centers and instead of having suburbs around the city, instead of having a kind of urban sprawl, all of those areas would be forms and those farms would be feeding into the economy of the city. there is a famous urban theorists who said that the goal for city designers and city planners should be that everything that a city is importing should eventually become something that the city is producing. that is absolutely the case of food. especially as we move into the future, food will become a very political issue and an urban issue. "solar panels cost 60% less today than full four years

ago." jonathan, independent caller. michigan, you are on the air. caller: i really enjoy c-span. thank you for your guest. you are really on track, trying to get on it from political issues. i want to run for political party in michigan because what -ou're saying, a lot of stuff, some of the political, you are right on the money. when you look at people talk, he said a lot of stuff that i do not -- that i could really say. since 1965, everything was

great? detroit has been going downhill since 1965. 1923, going up and up and up. it does not matter if it is a democrat or republican. people could work together on a plan. host: i will leave it there. annalee newitz? guest: i think that is absolutely the plan. part of the reason why you see a city fall into decline, detroit or another place, it is because of the fact that we do not have these good, long-term plans for anding our economies givers have an idea of where the city is going and how it will of all over time. to go"oklahoma will need underground soon if those tornadoes get worse." "they have the opportunity to

build round, arab-american homes, but they will probably build a wood frame, square homes." anything to say about these natural disasters that we have seen recently and how city prepares for that in the future? guest: i think that this is the point where we would think that oklahoma would go in the desert -- direction of building structures that are more disaster proof in the future. part of the reason i use the is preciselyoof this kind of moment. what was it about the city that was a problem during the disaster that is likely to strike again? something like tornadoes in oklahoma is pretty much a slam- dunk that it will happen again. this was not a freak accident. here in san francisco, earthquakes are the big issue. that is one that happen again.

how do we design our city to be robust against that disaster. this is where consumers need to be thinking about what kinds of homes can i build that will be disaster proof? tore are ways to talk architects and engineers to get the information that you want about the city want to build, but when you talk about developing roads, downtown areas, and public infrastructure, you also need to be kidding about that, consulting with engineers and finding out -- how can we build buildings with adequate underground shelters? buildings that will be robust against really strong wind? all over the country right now there are laboratories where engineers are actually looking at this, a huge warehouse where they build a structure and blow incredibly strong winds at the structure to find out what kinds of buildings are robust

against that. we actually have that data, that is the beautiful part, the difficult part is getting that scientific, engineering data into the hands of the people who are building houses, cities who are planning their city centers, making sure that there is the connection between innovation in the laboratory and in the city. host: sandy, d.c.. democratic caller. caller: i was wondering if he might have any ideas about the concepts of space colonies as an alternative response to massive extinction. my own instinct of reaction is that space colonies could lead to a slash and burn strategy where we tried to escape the planet after we trash it. i was wondering how you view it, our space colonies a compatible concept? or is it potentially massive

diversion and waste of resources? guest: you know, i think that space colonies are a great long- term goal. when i say long-term goal is something that is hundreds of years out or even thousands of years out. saying something as thousands of years out does not usually fit into our typical political cycle, so it sounds like science fiction, but i really do think that we need to be thinking in those terms because what is immediately important are the issues in our cities. in the near term over the coming decade, even over the coming next century, i think we absolutely have to focus on earth. not that we should not be thinking about how eventually in one hundreds of years -- in hundreds of years we could get to space. we should have a space program, not just for fun stuff like on

tamaras, but preventing asteroids from hitting the planet. we need to be aware of what is going on in our neighborhood in the solar system, but we also need to be thinking about the technologies that we can use to improve our relationship with the environment, mitigate climate change, create cities that are hopeful the carbon neutral and maybe one day even carbon-. negative. 81 they will have space cities, but not in our lifetime. host: what to current budget cuts, what impact does that have on this conversation? research that is happening right now on the evolution of our cities. host: i think -- guest: i think that the budget cuts are absolutely devastating. i am personally very disturbed by how little money goes into basic research.

groups like the national science foundation, which have done so much to fund the basic research that will ultimately allow us to build more sustainable cities, we need to be building up that budget, not cutting it down. that budget is integral to the future of the u.s.. i also think that one small ray of hope is the department of energy, who has a lot of science initiatives right now, which again i think should get much more funding, looking at alternative fuels, looking at the fundamental building blocks of ecosystems. trying to figure out how they work to prevent them from decaying and losing the diversity that is so important for us as species within the ecosystem. i think that these budget cuts are terrifying when you look at the future and i hope that moving forward we will come back

to an era in the u.s. where we really value basic research and education. we have been there before and i think it is going to have to come back and we will have to realize that this is the pathway forward. , author ofee newitz a new book, "scatter, adapt, and remember: how humans will survive a mass extinction," it excerpt of anin an "discover magazine." joseph city, new jersey, independent caller. caller: caught i was wondering, will class or money dictate who lives underground? you talked about turkey and everyone who owned a house had an underground cavern or wherever connected to that, but in a place like jerseys city, most people probably do not even own the land that they reside

on. what would that person do? clearly, they might get left on top while everyone else moves down. is the fundamental question, a fundamental question, one of the basic social problems of our cities. it goes back to what we talked about before, where some ofulations get shut out jobs. i think that the best way to address this issue is to have good, public infrastructure so that you are not dependent on being a rich person who can dig underneath your house to have a shelter. i think that we kind of lost sight of the fact that cities are public spaces, they are designed to foster communities and by foster in them, we foster productivity. you cannot expect people to be

productive and put them all into the work of the feel unsafe. if they feel -- if there is a horrible storm or radiation disaster tomorrow, i am the person who is going to be left on the surface. i think that is why cities need to think more about coordinated disaster response plans. not just creating the plans. most cities actually have those plans, but letting the people know what happened in the event , helping theer people in the city prepare and struck, yousaster know that there is a public underground shelter. it would take me five minutes to get there by car. if i hear an alarm, that is where i will go. that is part of the government's

duty, to make sure that the citizens understand the resources they have in the event of a disaster. host: on twitter they want to go back to the premise. "mass extinction, that means we are all dead, right" guest: mass extinction is worse and better than what your thinking. mass extinction is when 75% or more of species on the planet die out. that means there is a percentage that survive. there have been five of these on earth and species have always survived. the species that have survived have many characteristics of human beings. the main characteristics are that they are adaptable and able to scatter to multiple regions

on the planet. humans have gotten into that, we have adapted to a using our ability to change the environment using culture and technology. we are actually very likely to survive a mass extinction if one comes along. we have characteristics that will bring us through. the question is, how will we survive? what will survive will look like? is it something where we are living in caves and eating algae? or is it something where we have planned for that disaster? we have built our cities to be robust against its and maybe we will actually survive in a way that is fairly comfortable. host: from twitter --

pa., chris, johnson, independent caller. caller: one issue is that once you decide to have every one of the other in such a common grouping, you lose all kinds of ethnic diversity that creates the cities that you live in. an ethnic neighborhood, the difference between the mission district or talk a bell. -- taco bell. become cookie cutter. you need to have the ethnic diversity of people to survive. i will hang up and listen to your call. guest: i think that is absolutely true. we have been talking already needing diversity in the city. part of diversity is what keeps

it robust. i think there is very strong evidence that cities that survive overtime do it precisely because they have ethnicities that do not get homogenized. where you have neighborhoods that become homes to different and if you look at cities that have survived for long series of time, like rome, mexico city, lisbon, these cities have been many different cities over time, with many different groups passing through them, associated with many different empires, and what has kept them alive and vital is new groups coming in to transform and add to the city. i think the future of the city is very much about maintaining human diversity while at the same time creating public places

where those groups can come together productively and work, creating new ideas. absolutely, we need diversity to do that. host: this from twitter -- guest: i think there is evidence on both sides. they are investing in new technology. ultimately what is going to happen is energy companies are going to have to invest in alternative fuels, because we're going to reach peak oil. i am often shocked that people find that controversial. it is limited resources. you will not find new catch up once you use all the catch of in your bottle by licking really hard on the glass. you have to except that i am 150 years we will be looking at a very different landscape in terms of the kinds of fuels' and

energy we are using. that is going to be part of our economy. that will be part of how we make money. companies are trying to hang on to the old fuels or resources and have not figured out how to monetize the resources. from twitter -- guest: we are still in the middle of the space-age. we have a robot on mars right now driving around. i am always surprised when people say that the space-age is over. it is learning about the environment on another planet. go to the nasa website and checkout mars through the eyes of a robot. i think of the space-age is just

different from what we thought it would be. it is not going to be planting a human city on the moon in the next 50 years, but it is going to be exploration using technology that we did nothing we would even have when you're sending people to the moon. highly sophisticated robots? that is isaac asimov, science- fiction territory. now it is route -- israel. when you think about hope, think about the mars rover. think about how that is a human tool, a human friend, i guess, that is out there on mars doing research as we speak. i think there is a lot of hope, but i think that our immediate goal has to be human society and earth, fixing the problems we have here before we get cities on the moon. jane,we will go to

baltimore. more of aam really libertarian republican, but earlier you said you thought the city would become a social organism with food and farms. from that that you're speaking of collectivism. collective farms do not work. they did not work in the former soviet union. who owns these farms? there are collective. in a natural disaster, a major hurricane, talking about the wind, what if there is major flooding? as far as i know, a cave is a grave. guest: i think that there is a lot of legitimate fear about collectivism and the idea that the way we would respond to disaster is by allowing the government to come in and control everything.

i do not think that is the case. i am not worried about that happening in the context of the united states because we love the free-market and capitalism here. guewhat we're going to see for example with urban farming is it is going to be a patchwork. a lot of private farms, some farms that are subsidized by the government like we have now. i think that these cities are not going to be that much different from the way that we have cities today. when i talk about things like having public infrastructure for people in disaster, that is will we have now, it is just not well organized. the emergency services of the city have to be part of the government structure, publicly owned and funded for the social good. part of the emergency response

is going to be produced by private industry. for example there are a lot of companies on right now, like ibm and cisco, selling what they call city operating systems. technological systems that allow for different emergency response groups to talk to each other quickly and make plans quickly. you are always going to see this patchwork of public money and private money funding this transformation. that is the way cities have always been, they have always been fueled by private market and by government. host: a couple of other ones for you -- guest: this is not going to be a non-natural extinction because humans are natural. we are also not the only

species to have absolutely transformed the environment of the planet. in fact very early in the development of the planet, the atmosphere was dominated by methane, which we now think of as a guest we do not really want. blue-green algae began to release oxygen as part of its digestive cycle. slowly, over hundreds of thousands of years, that algae polluted the environment with so much oxygen that a completely alter the atmosphere. so, humans are not the only creatures to have altered the atmosphere with our activities and we will not be the last. what we do have over algae is we are conscious of what we are doing and over the past several decades we have become aware of the fact that we are changing the carbon cycle in the environment and we are working

hard, politically, to try to figure out ways to reverse that process or mitigate that process. host: annalee newitz, we have to jump in. unfortunately we have run out of time. the house is about to come into session. if you are interested in her article, "how to death-proof a city," she is also the author of a new book, "scatter, adapt, and remember: how humans will survive a mass extinction." thank you very much for your time. guest: thanks for having me. host: now, live coverage of the house as they take up the spending bill for the homeland security department's 2014 spending. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] he parties with -- alternate recognition between the parties with each party limited to one hour and each member other than the majority and minority leaders and minority whip limited to five minutes each, but in no event shall debate continue beyond 11:50