a discussion on the immigration bill working its way through the senate. an general ray odierno on preventing >> of the story of ida mckinley can be told through an exploration between her story -- her husband william mckinley. i spent 30 years together which brought them happiness early on. their life into illness and devotion to shape the presidency at the turn of the new century. joining us tonight to tell the story of ida mckinley are two guests returning to the table, richard norton smith and carl anthony. we are going to start our program would fail.

this is the first time that a president and first lady have been captured on film in the the united states. this rare footage is mr. and coming on stage in a 1901. that date is significant because the next day the ansident would be shocked by assassin anderson bullets. what was it about this exhibition that attracted the president to want to go? >> it was a world there. fair, it was a celebration of america's place in the new world. the presidency was very surprising in many ways. he was the president who took the country to the world stage. andspanish-american war turned america into a republican into an empire.

at the end of his life in the last speech he gave, in effect -- he talks in ways that years later we can all appreciate about opening america to the world. >> we were looking at our posting and everybody is asking about what is known of ida mckinley, her ill health. here she is traveling with the president. what did the country think of the president to know about her? interesting dichotomy. this is the pattern of her life. she had been grossly miscast by history as this victorian in the late on the fainting couch. there were times when she was that way. she had chronic illnesses. one was seizure disorder, known as epilepsy. she had damage along her left

leg which led to immobility. she also had a compromise immune system. shoe susceptible to infections. they took a tour across the , six months before he was shot. when they got to california, she almost died and sever cisco. the presidency -- in san francisco. and the worldion was focused on this. she washs later, walking unassisted. >> the very next day, and and killedruck president mckinley. who was he? what were his motives?

>> his name was leon czolgosz. i have trouble pronouncing it. you would call him a trickster. he was in an artist. >> what does that mean? at thatant that people existing monarchies was at the attachment of the common man. anarchistspress -- were against the system that was topped by the powerful. mckinley had power and he said he had none in effect. he had planned on killing the president early in the year. the king of italy had been murdered.

leon would stay up late at night reading newspapers about the death of the king. it may have triggered it. he made plans to kill the president. ironically, the people around mckinley -- the secret service protection and was one guard at the white house that retired early that night. this a with the last assassination. this was the third president. >> and this is why we got serious about protecting our presidents. the secret service was busy working on counterfeiters. the president's secretary wanted to cancel the reception at the fair. such a threat.t ironically, leon czolgosz got in and wrapped a gun around his

hand so it was unnoticed. he shot the president twice. at first, it was shot that mckinley would recover. about a week later, he took a turn for the worse the -- for the worse. that was the last time the american people focus on william mckinley. >> we are showing an illustration of ida mckinley at the presidency deathbed. she was not at his side on day two when the assassination took place. how does it play out with her? and we will get later on to the story of her among thefinally strength of doctors she had, she had one who committed to helping her in controlling the seizures.

part of that required a very strict regimen of food, diet, and rest. in had been with him opening day. they went to niagara falls. it ishe doctor said, time for your rest. both the president and mrs. mckinley had bought off on that. she was taken her scheduled rest. she suspected something had happened when the hours started going by and he did not come back. calm when she found out. .he rose to be extraordinary she was going out walking. she was walking along the sidewalk in talking to reporters which defies perception of her.

>> west of biggio we are going to show of the mckinley funeral -- we have some video we are going to show of the mckinley in will. what was the country like at that time? if you talk to the man on the street in september of 1901, he would've told you mckinley was certainly the greatest resident since lincoln. there were people who compared him to lincoln. he was not simply admired, he brought us out of the greatest depression since that date. he projected american power, economic and military onto the world stage. fors a very large presence somebody to become almost forgotten. the enormous thef in the country and reason why people love to mckinley, even people who do

himlove -- vote for because they cite his tenderness and devotion to this wife area >> we are going to go back in time and learning more about ida sexton and life with william mckinley. we are going to go back to her early days of canton, ohio. taking you to the saxton house which is what it is called today. and to the mckinley museum. this our first video tonight. clip] >> it is significant in the life of ida custis the house in which she was born. she grew up in this house along with her sister and brother and parents and grandmother. this was the house she lived in up until she met and married future president william mckinley. wheres the family parlor the family would have spent

evenings reading and conversing with each other. this not a place where they would entertain. we have on the wall one of the photost known those -- of the item her sister and brother. wethe wall above the mantel, have a portrait of ida's father john. over on this wall, we have a photograph of ida's beloved mother, kate. this room was actually replicated from a photo that we received from a descendent that is one of the few interior photos that we have of the house. we are in the formal parlor of the house. in this room, we have examples of ida's a love of music. piano. heard -- her she became the first first lady

to provide entertainment after state dinners and showing that love of music. that was part of her formal education. when she and her sister went on a grand tour of europe in 1869, one of the items she broke was this music a box which was donated by a descendent. she bought it in geneva. there are letters she wrote home to her parents throughout the trip talking about looking for music boxes. she sees them in different places but does not care for the quality. she said she would wait until she goes to switzerland and i will buy one there. this is the one she bought. >> we are going to see some of the letters.

the letters that we have a written to her parents from her and her sister, mary. to see allo europe of the countries that they could. the letters that we have detail a lot of the post was that they saw in the countries they went to. this one is from scotland. she said people should travel to see how much there is to learn to react how much i will enjoy has written. burns she really made the most of her trip. she was studying the different countries and seeing things you whiche on the grand tour took six months. we have other causes that represents her life area -- her life. this is what she would've carried wishy went to church. this is before she married mckinley.

hymns shesome of the would have sung at church. one of my favorites. this is the actual wedding license that william mckinley signed. he dropped the jr. after his father died. this is what they filed after they got married. at the time, it was not necessary for the woman to sign. william signed it, but i did not. -- ida did not. >> she was born to well-off parents. what is important to note that know?-- n againstwere radical slavery. and also equal education for women. ida's mother was extremely well

educated. ida mckinley is the most fully educated of all the first ladies of to that point. her father was friends with a fellow abolitionist. was friendsher with horace greely. oh hi jo was the california of the day. ohio was the california of the day. it represented the far west. his movement for equal education for women. to bring ar helps famed abolitionist whose name i cannot remember now. ida follows her with the teacher goes to teach at an academy during the civil war.

she goes on to study in cleveland. she studies at the brook hall in pennsylvania. what you see is a worldly, educated young woman with an interest and finance and a capability for mathematics and also great physical activity. she is an unusually fit young woman. she hikes up to 10 miles a day. two significant factors on that trip to europe. one is that she sees for the first time poor and working- class women working in belgium. she finds out how very little they make and have to live on. devastated by this. she reflects and a lot of letter. to trys a lot of lace and to do her part to help them. born with nortist hands who is painting in one of

the galleries. at first, she is put off by this. a real sense of empathy for people with disabilities. >> her father who owned a bank gave her a job as a teller. was it normal for a woman to work or was it ok because it was for her father? in a managerial capacity like this. it doesn't tell you a lot about the relationship with her father. >> we want to invite you to join in. we are using some of your tweets. use the #first ladies. you can also go to our facebook page. we have a good old-fashioned telephone. but the phone numbers on the screen and divided by the

region. we welcome your participation. she met at the bank major william mckinley. >> it must be said that he married up. with a a young woman pretty cosmetologist back -- city cosmopolitan background. he was born in ohio area from a family in the iron making business. think that's where he got his attitude of protectionism. back home homesick. that was the real classroom for somebody of his generation -- the war. he entered as a private. he exited as a major.

along the way, along the hayes.ge of he took a liking to this young man. years later, ida was spent a good deal of time in the hayes white house. that relationship became a significant one. >> they were married when she was 23 and he was 27. what were her early years like? >> they were conventional. she stopped working. he was interested in politics. when i went rule breaking this new biography on her, you see the first legal cases in the business he was handling. the saxton family helped build

canton. it became an important industrial center in ohio at that time. 's father and grandfather helped build it. mckinley helped to sustain it and make it famous. he was not -- he rose in prominence because of her. >> a few years after they got married in 1873 was an onset of problems for her. what were they? >> and they were living in a house that was described as their house -- her father had bought it. she gave birth on christmas day to the first a daughter on katie who was very healthy and the central focus of their lives. became very ill with cancer. theould say at that house,

saxton/mckinley house was the white house. it was owned by her maternal grandmother. is passed through four generations of women. was very close to her mother and grandmother. she was pregnant for a second time when her mother had cancer. her mother died before she gave birth. there is a picture for falling her mother's burial service. from what we can tell, people were later on were: get she struck her head -- were later on recalling it, she struck her head. bad spinale had a injury. she started developing seizure disorders. --jennifer on facebook says

i hope that she suffered -- i heard that she suffered from depression. were there more depression episodes? >> it comes and goes. the great discussion that this biography will point out is that for the entire first half of the mckinley's years in the white house, ida was fine. she was traveling on her own to new york. she was relatively active. she was still disabled that she had a mobility problems. she adapted to the role of first lady. she did not hide the fact is she an occasional walking problem. , herepression, you know physical problems and resulting emotional problems.

sometimes frustrations with her husband because it was a loving and devoted relationship, there were like any marriage, times of strained. about beingod optimistic when you are the one who can get up and walk away. there are times when this young woman who was so active find her life and different. >> i have read and you know more about it. there was this amazing scandal of the murder of the first lady's brother supposedly by a mistress. then a trial which had been secession will. the mistress was acquitted. there was a cause and effect. she went into a severe depression. >> that was a story that was largely put out in a book by

margaret leach. it is actually not true. that happened in october of 1898. , ais not until june of 1899 good amount of time after the trial that other factors -- his reelection and campaign and not telling her he is running begins to cause this depression. >> will take a few phone calls. >> thank you for having this wonderful program. my question is really specifically to the hobart's and mckinley's and more specifically to the role that jennie hobart played as an acting first lady during the years that they were in the white house. can you speak to that issue? >> i will summarize it by saying

it is false. she was there more as a friend and support. ida mckinley never was absent from any of the official duties of first lady and had someone substitute for her. maryad her younger nieces, barber, who she was very close to. sometimes they were frustrated because they did not want to undertake the obligation. mrs. hobart was very close to her. , ifadvised the president you want to change the seating direction you can. ida really considered her a very genuine friend. she never substituted for mrs. mckinley. >> maria is watching us from rhode island. >> thank you for having me on. my question is how did ida mckinley deal with the death of her children in comparison to

other first ladies such as mary todd lincoln? she was not up in the attic of writing letters. thing thatorst inning. can go through. it is universal area -- universal. thing that aworst parent can go through. >> it became known as the mckinley home. it was seen through different euphemisms. they only lived there for two years. they moved into the saxton/mckinley house. mckinley lived longer and that house than any other place at all. katie came with them.

she died of scarlet fever. this is after ida has been through the trauma and is going through dealing with this very bewildering new factor in her life -- and the seizure disorder. some years later she began to take comfort in buddhism. it was reincarnation. you begin to see ida mckinley instead of writing letters to her dead child, she kept katie alive. she would always have a picture on the wall. clothes her close -- and rocking chair and spoke sometimes as if the child was still alive. there are first-hand accounts of her looking at young children because she tapped that perhaps katie had been reincarnated.

>> we will return to the house to learn more about the political partnership between the mckinley's. >> during the years of william mckinley's political career, the house served as the residents. they had living quarters on the third floor of the house which was originally a ballroom and was turned into a living quarters with a bed room and entertaining area. off of that conductt we used to business. we are in a his office right outside the ballroom which becomes the living quarters of ida and william mckinley. this is the kind of set up they had. everywhere they went during his political careers. the dorset stayed open to the living quarters. i do stayed in the living quarters so she could hear what was going on. -- i do stayed in the living

quarters so she could hear what was going on. she would never take part in meetings. herwould never express political opinions. she would never join in. this the kind of set up they had when they were in columbus when he was the governor. there was no governor's mansion. >> william mckinley, u.s. congressman became the party's nominee in 1896. what were his party politics? what was the republican party like with him in it? what's it was the party of big business. -- >> it was the party of big business. protecting american industry. it is hard to believe but you can look at the political map in 1896 and it would flip-flop today. mckinley and the republicans swept the industrial northeast. of whatsolutely reverse

we take for granted today. identifiedd become with this issue of the tariffs. he had been gerrymandered out of his job. the democrats tried twice and they got him. they should have reconsidered. the next year he was elected governor of ohio. he was reelected two years after that. one reason why he again is today out of a prisoner of big --iness is his association >> there's a story that he had a ritual that he would get up from his desk at 3:00 and wave to ida. >> is actually the governor.

, awill go to their home residential hotel in front of the plaza and he would go out and do this. new at 3:00 -- look at how devoted he is. none other than teacher president warren harding -- future president warren harding told the story. they knew that mrs. mckinley had been back in canton for a week. he was putting on a good show. that's devotion to ida he became to use as presidential timber. he was disciplined and focused and devoted and loyal. these are the kinds of things you can look for in him.

>> it seems strange that he would get up during meetings and way. it was very shrewd. >> shrewd political theater. he used this little bit of theatre- gator -- because he would get off the train and carry her purse. he will put the shawl around her. people would clap. this became part of his persona. >> was he as popular in america >> he was.n ohio? we are talking about the height of the victorian era. , mckinley was a lovable political figure.

they are always being petitioned. people want jobs. people want something. the governor of ohio was no different. --inley had a disability, had a disability. he would change the subject. he would take a carnation off his coat and pin it to his petitioner and send the guy out who did not get what he wanted. he had this mode of connecting with the governor. this is what made his political genius. it was not sophisticated. what ever it is, he had it. >> hi, charlotte. >> before you get to my question i want to say i really enjoyed the show.

this a second time i've been been watching this with my mom. my question is did ida mckinley play anything else besides the piano? >> dishy play anything else? >> i found no evidence. they think she took an interest in a wide variety of music. she loved the opera. she was big on the theater. she had a lot of friends. what you love about being first lady was having all of the stars of the stage, this was before hollywood, come to the white house. she had all kinds of music played at the white house. she had mexican music. she had a british club. she had african american music. she even had a rack time performed at the first valentines dance.

>> marilou in kansas. >> my question was answered already. i want to thank you for this program. i really enjoyed it. i want to ask if there will be a dvd of the programs available later? >> all of them are online. you can order dvds from our website. go to c-span.org. we have it all online for you to watch again. the 1896 campaign was jennings versus mckinley. jennings campaigned through many states. he was on the road all the time. what wasconducted known as the front porch campaign. we'll learn more in our next video. >> mckinley played an active role in in the campaign and in the front arch campaign.

she would be seated on the porch. she would never speak. she was always there. perception of by the public that ida was an invalid. campaign managers wanted to dispel that, they wanted to show that ida would serve her role as first lady. there have been many first ladies in the past that were ill that it did not really play an active role. now it is 1896. we are coming on the new century. communication is better. people are learning more about the president and their first lady. they are starting to have expectations that that first lady play a role of. you do not want her to hide way. that is what the campaign managers wanted to do. they wanted to bring up that this is not an invalid, she was active and wanted to play that role. we have some of those items that were created for the campaign,

for ida mckinley. we have been campaign biography. we have some ribbons that were put out by different organizations. we have a piece that is a paper and the wife of the other candidate. well the piece of china that has ida's image. were outese pieces there in the public. the public.there in she did not make speeches. she was always there and always present. -- how wellwas known where her illnesses known by the public customer -- public? what's the greater problem which william mckinley never ceased

searching for a cure for the seizures. because visually he would see andwith a gold handled cane will chair did not, toward the end of his administration. he would always give his arm to her. it was easy to focus on that. she would talk to reporters and say, i have a lameness in my leg. ,hat for a while cap things kept the public satisfied. you start hearing expressions like nervous affliction. used the word epilepsy in her lifetime. what was really going on and was tragic in and of itself was the ignorance of the vast population about the seizure even when the agent

knew balaji is donning, people age of neurology, people was mental. mckinley was afraid people would and his wife had a mental illness. he contacted a doctor in new , this was before the fda. this guy broke the code by salts tomckinley control the onset of seizure.

anddoctor started writing said i gave you the condition i would give a weekly report. it is a very precise measurement that has to change week to week based on that. mckinley would never write. he did not want to put anything in writing. -- itime, it crated crated a greater harm. , it can damage the nerves. >> in an attempt to help her he made her condition worse? >> yes. can you define for people what to be salts are? the chemical.call i think it is potassium. a white powder that would be stirred into water. it was not a tablet.

there were tablets that i made reference to. largely by looking at his canceled checks. and hented to get rid did not reply to the doctor, he did not agree of the checks. but it does the senses and nerves. >> we saw the use of campaign. was this a new trend, it into the country where the wives helped the candidates of pill to the public? the last of the old- fashioned campaign. theodore roosevelt exploited it. they were very exploitable. edith roosevelt was the least willing to go along. the children had a great time. .his is the hinge

you have newspapers with pictures. all of a sudden, presidents and their families who were very , they haveres before faces and personalities. that expanded to the families as well. it would take off as the media became course is physically. >> good evening. i want all the callers to know i have a comment to make. you have putthat together on c-span has been phenomenal. i have watched most of the series and i've been educated and enlightened. i have a couple of comments. >> the gentleman sitting across from you, it was decided to do the series and our producer worked very hard on this. thank you.

>> you are absolutely right. , it is aorton smith pleasure and an honor to be up to talk to both of you folks. ihave as a love of history have followed both of your works for years. i'm just honored to bring to talk to you tonight. tost of all, with regard mrs. mckinley's help -- health, i noticed you comment about six months before mr. mckinley was assassinated she was gravely ill when they had a trip out to the west coast. i noticed there was a report that was in the "bjork times -- " about how near

death she was. was that the first time that a first ladies held was publicly reported that mark i am curious to know why they felt the need to even get that out there. that a0 years since president or first lady would not have wanted that information to be released. >> thank you. >> a really great question and observation. the only other first lady would -- anough an element illness was caroline harrison. that was toward the end. before she died, more details were learned. in large part it was they were traveling. they went through tennessee down to new orleans to texas. got out of the

other side of the train and ran away with a bunch of women who took her to a big breakfast across the border making her the first incumbent first lady to leave the united states. they came to the fiesta flowers. at that point should be shaking hands that she had cut her finger, she had a ring on. it became ineffective. as they were going up the coast and i go through all the details in the new book, to summarize this debate about issue going to get better? mckinley said i've seen her, she is always gotten better. the doctors said this is pretty serious. when they had to cancel everything and she was really , of death that is when coarse reporters were traveling

with them. they had to tell the truth. they were very honest about it. they gave daily reports. her seizurerds disorder, the president developed a technique when they were at events. whoas described by taft attended a home in canton. let me read how he described it. "at that moment we heard a hissing sound, mckinley through a nap and over his wife's face and without a trace of excitement handed me his pill so. pencil. not a word was said by the incident." people have heard the napkin story. is it true? is it is true but has been exaggerated. here is what the truth is. that only occurred in private.

his was at their home. -- this was at their home. the other accounts are in reference to private dinners. this never happened at state dinners. this never happened in public. , it would have been better. the reason it did not happen in public was because she was drugs thaton the were dulling her senses. when you people talking about how vague and distorted her conversation was becoming, this -- 18999 and afterwards and afterwards. the of fact of the nerve damage that was occurring. >> we are going to return to canton, ohio and look at some of the dresses of the first lady

that they have preserved their as a sense of how she preserved herself. some theer to see most fragile and important pieces from ida mckinley, we have to go into our main storage area. this is where we keep her white house dresses and other artifacts. this dress is my favorite. and we are in the middle of a process so that we can have these dresses repaired so they can be on a mannequin. this one is my favorite because it is so heavily ornamented. you can see on the beadwork. it has silver beats. -- beads. it has tiny little mirrors. it would have reflected light beautifully.

this is typical of ida's style. the fashion would have been high collar. puffyppy sleep -- sleeves. -- favor ivoryy color. she did not have a lot in her life to be excited about. she was a semi invalid. fashion was important to her as reflected by the guilds in our collection. >> we are beginning to see first .adies club set the trends was she a trendsetter? >> she was not. she did get into a bit of trouble with the audubon society by wearing a feather in her hair. ms. cleveland and mrs. hayes, great lovers of animals. ida mckinley was not a great

animal lover. a stupid andup untrue story was that she during the trunk of cats the spanish-american war that been named after spanish leaders, political and military. i've really tried to track that down. there is zero evidence that she did not do it and that there were any cats. >> it was a busy time in the country. thatof the major events were occurring during the administration. 1898, the spanish-american war. it brought teddy roosevelt to prominence. [laughter] the war of revenue act.

the open door policy. 1900, gold standard act. you talk about him as establishing the power of the presidency. >> two quick examples. 1896 matters because it is an election. they cannot know it in 1901 mama when william mckinley -- for the next 40 years up until the new deal, republic had been the dominant party. he broke the logjam after the civil war when he went back and forth. that is important. one other case of presidential power that is relevant is mckinley dispatched 5000 american soldiers to combat the boxer rebellion which was a

secret society of chinese who were set up with the explication of the country by western imperial powers. .hey had laid siege --oung cunning couple honeymooning couple and hundreds of westerners and thousands were threatened. asinley sent these troops part of an international expedition in the nick of time they arrived and were able to save about 900 westerners who were there. he did it on his own power. he never talked to congress. presidents would use that example in situations that may have been similar. in which heway

transformed his presidency and the presidency. and myve this program question was when we learned in they told ushool, that when mckinley was assassinated and had died his wife sat in the white house quite a long time playing the p&o and got up and took a canary and left the white house and everything else in it? is that true or false? >> and that is false. , it isinley -- well shocking how so many of the simple request she made in regard of her husband and his coffin and his remains were ignored.

she was not really treated much -- her request of a widow were not honored. >> when he was looking at all of these issues, it was the custom to drink a mixture to stay awake that contained cocaine? >> americans drink coca-cola. it contained the same substance. >> the answer is yes? >> it is yes. >> the pope used it. >> was consumed with his wife's health. how does that affect his presidency? a ship was sunk in havana harbor in february.

he is reluctant to go to war. arenegotiations with spain down. we go to war. when he stayeds up late at night but the truth when shewas the period was worried about him. in act, there is a strong record their shows she was trying to talk to his assistant we need to do something about him. she was playing the protective role. this apl when she is -- is a period when she is physically stroke. after the war is declared over, then the filipino american war because we took the philippines they did not welcome us. and they resisted. it was bloody and horrifying. there were atrocities committed

on both sides. that is when she was at her neediest. that is when the pressure really did get to him. he had to constantly make the choice between his work and his wife. >> surprising parallels between then and now. the 113 days it took to defeat a spanish empire. what we tend to forget is that like iraq and afghanistan, the immediate victory was followed by a protracted, very bloody insurrection which went on for four years. 70,000 american soldiers who were in the philippines trying to put down. while mckinley was preaching benevolence, the problem was

the filipinos do not want to be assimilated. >> joshua in florida. >> first of all, i want to thank you you for this program i enjoy it. i want to talk a little bit about what you mentioned last week. last week this story and mentioned that many eisenhower was the first fashion icon and then jackie kennedy was. i cannot help to think that would've first for slaves to be shown on tv regularly. been shown regularly on tv. he talk about the images especially ida mckinley? >> i would not place too much emphasis. it was a matter of fact. these were shown more on nickelodeon's. that of the movie theaters

would become an newsreels by the time of woodrow wilson. was the first one presidential campaign, his brother was always asking for railroad passes and looking to make a good on his brother. his brother got involved and one of the first film companies. his notification. you see ida on the front porch walking. it was more of a haphazard fact that she appeared. it was not a factor. what i will add is there are newspaper illustrations, hand drawn illustrations that allow for them to take photos that looks like a cut and paste of actual photographs with people's ines and drawings of them

various scenarios. the first impression cast of her in a wheelchair when she almost died in san francisco. >> that is 1899. rachel on facebook asked what was her view on one man's suffrage? she goes to massachusetts at smith college. do we learn about her views on women's rights? >> this is something i discovered. like everybody else, i had a general impression of her as the invalid. in fact i'm a she goes with the and at smith college he becomes the first president of the united states to address the issue of women's education. today we do not think of it as a , itdeal area in that day

could be the end of american society if women get jobs. the social fabric of the families will go away. we do not have the text of what her speech was. she delivered a short speech. and one of the rooms inside a building, presented with a silver cup and made some remarks. she was very decidedly in favor of women's rights to vote. the anti-separately came and president mckinley went with them. ida did not come down the stairs. and nothing further was said. when susan b anthony and the suffrage leaders came, ida said bring them up into my private suite.

and went and gave a huge load of -- to susan b anthony. she told her i want you to say this is for me as a gift to all of you. later on, she corresponded with susan b anthony. a friend a friend of hers later confirmed that she very strongly leaved in women's suffrage. that is the first incumbent incumbent first lady to publicly support suffrage. >> on this trip, she has a massive seizure. is this when her health really begins to to deteriorate? >> yes. what also happens, mckinley has thatased an original house they had the first three and a half years of their married life together. , they had rented it, i should clarify, r