speaking about this wonderful man, john dingell who is quite embarrassed as we talk about him, because he has a great deal of humility which is unusual here. when i first won election in 2006 and i came in early 2007, i knew about john dingell. i taught politics and history and i knew his history as a legislator. i knew a lot about him. what i didn't know about him is what i want to talk about. you hear him call him friend, because he has a gift for friendship. he uses the words, my friend, and you believe him. he has a gift for friendship. he said sit down here, my friend and i sat down and talked to the great john dingell and asked me of him telling me about him. i was overwhelmed at the idea that i was going to be this

wonderful man's colleague and taught me a lot through the years. any time you want a little bit of wisdom, you can sit with john dingell. sits there very quietly and people come to him. if you just want to have a quiet chat, john dingell is available. if you want to remind yourself that civility exists, sit next to john dingell. he is polite, intelligent, warm and cares about the people. he has done a wonderful job representing michigan and new hampshire and every other state in the country. and through his legislation legislation we are so much better and we as members of congress look better, too. i thank you for what you have done for me and all of our colleagues and for our country

and wish you the best of health. thank you. mr. barrow: i thank the gentlelady. i will close this by recalling the words of thomas carlisle, an advocate of the great man theory of history. carlisle wrote that history is but the biography of great men. if that's true, the legislative history of this country for over a century has been the biography of john dingell. the gratitude for his service, example and the friendship for our honoree and depratest affection, i will yield back -- it looks like the gentleman would like a rebuttal. mr. dingell: i don't know whether to rebut or agree. mr. barrow: i yield to mr. dingell. mr. dingell: i want to begin by

thanking mr. hoyer, our leader and our whip, and our dear riend mr. barrow, a wonderful, courage ageous the gentleman from georgia who has to fight to remain here. and you, mr. kildee, you have a great family name. your uncle was my dear friend. i'm satisfied that he is going to be very, very proud of you and grateful for your friendship. and i thank gene green for his kind words about me. wonderful man, wonderful wife. his concerns are about people. and i want to say how much the remarks of my colleague from maryland, donna edwards. donna, you are a wonderful lady. there is a story about here. i worked awfully hard to see to

it that her predecessor was able to stay here, but she was so good that he never stood a chance in spite of everything i could do to save him. she is a great lady and full of goodness. and the stories she told about the kids was just a story about her goodness, because she saw to it that these wonderful young people had a place to stay here during the president's inauguration when they were going to play in the march in the parade. and i say to my old friend, representative levin. our families have been friends and have a history that is interwould he haven of affection going back to the 1920's when i was a glint in my dad's eye.

i want to say to mr. markey, our colleague, who is going to be leaving us, how much we have cherished his friendship and valuable service on the commerce committee and how proud i am of his service. he and i had the opportunity to engage in fights over the jurisdiction of the committee when they were trying to read the commerce committee and we found out when the fight was over, we had more jurisdiction than we had. when we went into the fight. and you, my wonderful friend, carol shea-porter, what a wonderful lady you are and how proud we are to have a friend like you here and who cares about people and who works so hard for them. and i'm proud of the words that you had to say. and my polish colleague, paul pollsfrom new york, we us

are very, very concerned about loyalty and friendship and about homes and he certainly ex emapply files that goodness. i'm proud of the little things i have been able to do while i have been here and prouder even still more of the people that i have been able to serve and help and i'm grateful of the friendship of the people of southeast michigan. the legislature has redistricted me so many times and they can't ind me in a place anymore. my father was a wonderful public servant and taught me that we are public servants, not masters of the people, but their servants and this is reason for us to be particularly proud because that is the highest calling of all. to you, my colleagues, who have

graciously and kindly made this rather embarrassing evening possible, i express to you my thanks and my gratitude for your friendship and for reminding me that there still is the wonderful warmth, friendship and goodness in this institution. lovely, deborah, and we thank you for your friendship and kindness and the other colleagues we are serving with now and now who we have served with before that are no longer with us we are grateful. this is the greatest nation in the world. we are part of the greatest experience and the greatest experiment in the history of mankind. experiment in government which gives equality to all of us. and we are reminded that serving and saving and protecting those people that we serve and the values that they hold dear is a

tremendously important concern. one which we were going to have to go to bat again to see to it that the voting rights act is extended because the protection of the rights of our people and the greatest of all, the right to vote, are not yet fully assured. so to all of my colleagues tonight who have been gracious and kind to me, i express to you my thanks and gratitude. it's a privilege to serve with you. and even a greater privilege to have you for friends and have you be people up to whom i can look for your goodness and decency and concern and for the service which you so gladly and generously give to the people of the united states and the people you represent in your different districts. mr. speaker, i thank you for your patience and with that, i yield back with great gratitude

from georgia ends and with my thanks to all of my colleagues who have spoken excessively kindly about me tonight. mr. barrow: with that, mr. speaker, i yield back the balance of our time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the chair lays before the house a privileged concurrent resolution. the clerk: senate concurrent resolution 19, resolved, that when the senate recesses or adjourns on any day from thursday june 27, 2013 through friday, july 5, 2013, on a motion offered pursuant to this concurrent resolution by its majority leader or designee stands recessed until monday, july 8, 2013 or such other time on that day that may be specified by its majority leader

or its designee and the motion to recess or adjourn or until the time of any resee himbly pursuant to section 2 of this concurrent resolution whichever occurs first and when the house ajurns from friday june 28, 2013, through friday july 5, 2013 on a motion offered pursuant to this con current resolution by its majority leder or its designee it stands adjourned until july 8, 2013 or until any time of whichever occurs first. section 2, the majority leader of the senate and the speaker of the house or their respective designees acting jointly after consultation with the minority leader of the senate and the minority leader of the house shall notify the members of the senate and house respectively to

reassemble at such place and time if the public interest shall warrant it. the speaker pro tempore: without objection the concurrent resolution is agreed to and the the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table. for what purpose does the gentleman from michigan seek recognition? >> i move that the house do now adjourn. the speaker pro tempore: the question is on the motion to adjourn. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. the ayes have it. the motion is adopted. accordingly the house stands

he commanded the clouds above and open the gates of heaven. he rained down manna and gave them bread from heaven. our history is filled with dramatic evidence by god's hand is upon our land. who among us would dispute that we, americans, are a blessed people? there's a statue of a woman holding a lamp and that the base give me statement, your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. the wretched refuse of your e to me.shore, send the i lift my lamp beside the golden

door. for over 200 years now, they have come. often, just in search of a job to feed their kids and a chance of a better life. from ireland and poland, germany ,nd france, mexico and cuba they have come. they have come because on the theirf their birth, dreams are bigger than their opportunities. here, they brought their language and customs, religion and music. art as they have made well from a collection of people everywhere, we became one people. the most exceptional nation in all of human history. even with all of our challenges, we remain that shining city on a hill.

we are still the hope of the world. go to our factories and our fields. go to the kitchens and construction sites. go to the cafeteria in this very n there you will find that the miracle of america is still alive, for here in america, those who once had no hope would give their kids a chance at a life they always wanted for themselves. generations of unfulfilled dreams will finally come to pass. support this reform, not just because i believe in immigrants, but because i believe in america even more. >> madam president, i appreciated the remarks from the heart of my good friend, marco rubio. he is a great addition to the senate.

i would say the heart of america is good. the heart of this country is good. for 30 years, they have been pleading with congress to keep a generous immigration policy of foot and america, but at the congress has refused, the president has refused. this is why we now have 11 million people in the country illegally. they want to do the right thing, but by a quattro to one margin, they said they want to see this congress to do what members of congress have repeatedly

promised and never delivered on, creating a lawful system we can be proud of, a system that serves the national interests. rather than working with law enforcement groups and prosecutors considering the needs of everyday citizens, the sponsors of this bill has spent months in negotiations with partial interests and lobbyists to produce a bill that will not work. it will create more lawlessness in the future. i want them to hear what those men and women on the frontlines have to have to say about this legislation. shouldn't we listen to them? they ask to be able to participate in these negotiations and they were rebuffed. i ask that they be allowed to participate and they were rebuffed.

a bill that senator schumer, let's say what they say. a bill senator schumer was tough as nails. was that correct? i think not. this was issued today. the united states citizenship and immigration service officers released this joint statement, representing tens of thousands of officers. they say this? "iceey say this -- officers and adjudicators have pleaded with lawmakers not to adopt this bill.

the proposal will make americans less safe, and it will ensure more illegal immigration, especially these overstays in the future. it provides legalization for thousands of dangerous criminals. was guided from the beginning by anti- enforcement special interest and should it become law, will have the desired effect of these groups, blocking immigration enforcement. public safetyti- bill and law enforcement bill. oppose all lawmakers to the final closure vote thursday, and oppose the bill we will be voting on sin -- soon."

they call on all americans to pick up their phone and call on members of congress. who do we trust on this question? are good, political senators who work hard but have not been on the front lines doing the work, or the people we pay trying to do the work every day, putting their lives at risk? there is something else i would like to talk about today. i think it is one of the least discussed parts of the conversation. we will have others talk in more about enforcement failures of the legislation, but in many ways this could be the most important. i know our friends in the media certainly had not given a lot of coverage to it, and that is future flow of immigration to america, or the legal immigration part of the bill,

the bill that controls the legal flow in the future. costells us that the bill large increase in mostly lower skilled legal workers will push down wages and increase unemployment. push down wages and increase unemployment. that needs to be talked about. it must be understood fully. hundreds of people are hurting today. there was an article recently in "the new york times." 700 people camped out for five days to get a few jobs as elevator repairman. they camped out in the rain, waiting in line, hoping to get one of those jobs. there was an article involving philadelphia where individuals who had prior felony convictions -- convictions, any not all felonies, who wanted work, and

they set up an opportunity for them to apply for jobs. they expected the 1000. 2000 and them showed up. the stories they gave were heartbreaking. do we not need to consider the impact this policy could have on working americans? it is a sensitive topic, but a crucial one. here is what david cameron, the prime minister of the uk said recently. "there are those that say you cannot have a sensible debate because it is somehow wrong to express concerns about immigration. now, i think this is nonsense. yes, of course, it needs to be approached in a sensitive and rational manner, but i have always understood the concerns, the genuine concerns of hard- working people, including many in our migrant communities that

worry about uncontrolled immigration and the pressure it puts on public service, the rapid pace of change in some of our communities, and the concerns deeply felt that some people might be able to come and take advantage of our without making a proper contribution to our country." mr. cameron goes on to say "it is our failure in the past to reform welfare and training -- that meant we left too many young people in a system where they did not have hoppers skills, proper incentives -- copper skills, proper incentives to work, and we saw people toing over -- from overseas fill jobs in our economy. our job is to train our youth, not to rely on immigration to fill the skills gap." that resonates with our people

today and we thought through this. let's look at our situation in america. 21 million americans are unable to find full-time work. one in three without a high school diploma are unemployed. 47 million americans are on food stamps. labor force participation is the lowest since the 1970's. the percentage of americans actually working is lower and has been continually falling since the 1970's. it goes back to the date when women were just beginning to enter the workforce. three youth in our nation's capital are living in poverty. it appears we are in an area of a new normal. economists have been talking about this, a new normal really see lower growth in developed economies than we normally would see. there are more robotics.

businesses are looking to contain the growth of employment and low job creation has been the result. our own congressional budget ifice -- madam president, would ask that i be notified after 20 minutes. >> the senator will be notified. >> our own congressional budget office has done a 10 year economic projection as they do every year. second fiven the years of our 10-year window, 2023, weugh two -- would only create 75,000 jobs. i know some would say we would bring in workers and that would create jobs, but we will talk about what economists really say about that. ?hat does this legislation do i think this legislation has not given thought to the plight of

these unemployed americans. the legislation that is before us today and four times more guest workers -- people that come only to work, not just seasonal workers. they come for years at a time with their family, but specifically to take a job four times or more than in the 2007 bill that failed in many objected to on the grounds that it would hurt workers. triples the granting of legal status. of the a result legalization process. , haves who have looked come to the same conclusion, at least 30 million people would be given legal status over the next decade, whereas normally we would give 10 million people legal status.

yet, to this day, sponsors of the legislation have refused to tell us how many come into the country. what we do know is that the plan is not a merit-based lan, but most -- plan, but mostly lower skilled. we have data that shows that. this would be a hammer blow to poor and working-class americans. the civil rights commission wrote us. they had hearings on this, saying it would devastate poor workers. they say we do not have a shortage of lower skilled workers. we have a glut of lower skilled workers. that is a direct quote from their letter. ,ompare the current situation when the legislation was introduced in 2007. today, 5 million more americans are on and played than in 2007. 25 more million americans are

-- 25 million more americans are on food stamps. median household income -- get this, median household income is 8.9% lower than in 1999. that is huge. harvard, borjas at himself an immigrant, who studies economics from says a large part of that decline is driven by the immigration flow that comes into our country. this would increase the dramatic late. we want to have immigration. we will not stop immigration. we will maintain a generous immigration flow, the people need to know this bill increases it dramatically. cbo did a report on the legislation. this is what they found. the legal immigration surge in this bill would reduce average wages for a decade -- reduce

average wages for a decade. our own cbo said it. it is in their report. i had it on the floor earlier. wages will remain lower for many years after that and if the bill had never passed. what about unemployment? it will increase according to cbo. gnp, will be lower or the next quarter of a century. you will have an increase in gdp and our colleagues are quick to say that because of a large, new group of people, but that increase per person in america does not occur. gnp.duces the per capita these are conservative estimates. dr. borjas suggests the

situation with the worst than this. to whom do we all our allegiance? to this group that wants more people in the high-tech world, the agricultural world, the meatpacking world or other businesses? citizens thatican --e card, a texas found that fight our wars and pay taxes? the time is long past for a national discussion. nobody proposes ending immigration. it is a deep part of our history, but the nation has the right and the duty to establish that for mostflow assimilation, for most self efficiency and rising raises and helping identify people that can flourish, the last thing we

want to do is advise people to come to america to work and find out that there are no jobs for them here, or that they are putting americans out of work. that does not make sense. we have not had that kind of discussion we need. the data indicates, objectively speaking, that this would be a detriment to working americans. a great nation needs a policy that promotes its legitimate national interests, considering a tough time that workers are having today. a policy that rejects ideas that will pull down even further the wages of hurting workers. that could, as senator sanders has said some create a permanent underclass in america. it is a dangerous thing. we need to do it right. is a step.tion

i urge rejecting the bill and come up with a plan that serves the interests of all americans. sadly, this legislation advances the interests of those -- wrote it.some the vote we are about to have his for final passage. the promise of an open process have been as hollow as the promises this bill would be the toughest ever. it just will not happen. law offices have told us this. . this legislation is amnesty first. legality occurs first. -- lacks a system

that will work. there is a lack of commitment. it is not written by people who are out there every day. it would affect some of these problems shown throughout the bill. more money has been promise with a recent amendment for the border, that is in the distant future. what about the rest of the bill the e-verify system is flawed. it has been delayed. it can be in place right now. why it would be delayed that long is beyond me, unless you are not intensely interested in in makingarted and -- sure half the people are legalized, and others cannot take the job who enter illegally.

the entry/exit system is much weaker than current law. this says you only need to have electronic system at air and seaports, making it incomplete. reading passionate letters from my law enforcement officers, pleading with us not to pass the bill because they say it will hurt enforcement and we can national security. the method of processing those given legal status will not work. the citizenship and immigration service who manage this is one of the biggest objectors

because they say there is no way they could accomplish what would be asked of them. toy say it would lead lawlessness, and they will be unable to do and i dangerous -- identify dangerous people that should not be in the country. i will be wrapping up. the thought of having fines to pay for the cost of this amnesty is a huge budget buster. huge budget buster now. the obamacare provision that was supposed to ensure that persons who were given legal status did not get subsidized healthcare, now provides an incentive for businesses not to hire american workers because they will have to pay the obamacare premiums, but would ,ire foreign workers, legalized illegal workers who were not given legal status.

they would have multithousand dollar advantages in hiring them over american workers. the legislation will not work. let's continue to work through all of these problems together. i do feel that the bill sponsors are clearly correct to say that we need to fix this broken system. a bill that will respond to the pleas of the american people for a lawful immigration system that serves our national interest and in which we could take pride is what i will support. how could we go for a bill that our own congressional budget office says will reduce average wages in america for 12 years? we have in this group of american workers thousands, millions of immigrant workers, millions of minorities, african- americans and others at low wages, and this legislation, at a time they are hurting very

badly now will reduce average wages for 12 years, increase unemployment and reduced per capita gdp for over 25 years? this is policy we have to ask serious questions about. all of this at a time of high unemployment, long-term falling wages, surging welfare, and disability and dependency. not a healthy trend in america. we have to ask these questions. our real focus, as prime minister cameron has been -- has said, should be to work hard to train our young people for jobs havepay a decent wage and a healthcare and retirement plan. this legislation will not end the lawlessness as professional officers have repeatedly told us. it will not do so. legality, amnesty,

and you want to call it that, virtually immediately. hour andromise of an -- promise ofow enforcement is not going to happen now. this is a letter that was an ice today from officer, a true patriot who has worked so hard to do this. he says -- "one of the problems with the bill is a failure to enforce the nation's immigration laws on the interior of the united states. it is not just a border issue. it cannot and will not end as a result of increased border security. it must be resolved through increased interior enforcement.

40% of all the illegal immigrants in america did not illegally cross the border, but entered instead legally with a visa and did not leave when the visa expired. 40,000 border patrol agents provided in your legislation will never come into contact with these people. do you hear that, colleagues? they are never coming in contact with the people in the interior. he goes on to say -- "systems like e-verify and biometric entry/exit, still missing from the bill, might identify thousands of illegal immigrants but iceus violators, officers will not exist to locate and apprehend them. rendering the system useless. the majority of foreign nationals identified by the

systems will remain in the united states. 500,000 are currently in the united states. 2 million criminal aliens at large. aliens ared criminal arrested by local police each year. that thereto note are only 5000 ice officers in america, and this administration sues state and local governments who try to help ice officers get their jobs done. , the joint statement today , says " ice and uscis they have plead with congress to to adopt this bill, but work on real, effective reforms

for the american people. oblique safetyi- bill and anti-law enforcement bill. we urge all lawmakers to oppose the bill." , this president legislation will not end the lawlessness. i wish it were different, but that is the fact. it does not create a merit-based future flow as has been honest and it leaves us in a very difficult decision. so, i feel like there is no choice for us today. let's vote no on the legislation. it is not going to and the efforts. we are going to have to continue to wrestle with this. the house,ws is that at least, initially what i have seen in their work, indicates that they are giving a far more prudent approach to it. the first note that they produced, i try to offer as an amendment, but it did not get

brought up, and he really has an effective effort at improving interior law-enforcement. that is the kind of thing we need to be doing. then we can win the confidence of the american people and move past this very difficult time in our history. i think the chair and reserve the balance of the time on the site. -- side. >> the senator from south carolina. >> thank you. if i may -- well, thank you very much to my good friend from alabama. you have been consistent. you have conducted yourself incredibly well. .ou are a man of passion i agree with david cameron in jeff sessions, let's have a debate about immigration, but i am in the camp, let's stop talking about it and do something. this bill is a giant step forward in many ways. for the senate, we are at 10%

, and% of approval rating my question is who are the 10% and 12%, and what the hell do they like? i do not approve of what we are doing. i see this as a significant in ato work together bipartisan fashion to do something that matters. is this bill perfect? is it like senator sessions described? no. to the american people, you have to be frustrated by your congress not being able to do the hard things, and sometimes not even the same old things. .- simple things they should give you a little bit of hope that for the first time since 2007 the united states senate, in a bipartisan fashion, is about to pass legislation on an important topic that is emotionally tough but needs to be dealt with.

to the critics, i appreciate the debate. this time around, it has been so much better, but some of the criticism i will address. senator rubio spoke in an fashion about his family's history and about who we are as americans, but everybody has a story. his story is an exceptional story. i am the first person in my family to go to college. neither one of my parents graduated high school. my dad and mom ran a restaurant, a liquor store and a pool room, and i learned everything i need to know about politics in the pool room. a great place to learn about people. one of the critics of this bill said that the average illegal immigrant has a 10th grade education. well, all i can say is you and a united states senator who came from parents who did not have a 10th grade education. that howwho believe long you go to school determines your character, how much money

is in the bank determines your words, they really do not understand america. only in america can you do what senator rubio has done, and my parents have long since passed. when i was 21, my mom died, 17 years younger than my dad. we thought he would go first, but life is not understandable and predictable. she went first. 15 months later, he passes. my sister was 12. over $30,000. i am in the united states senate because i live in a country where anything is possible, and there are a lot of self-made people in america. i am not one of them. if it were not for my family and my friends, i would not be here today. to those who say that among this emeka limited population there are just not -- that among this

e-mail immigrant population, they are not well educated, you how offensive that is to a guy like me. you can take your criticism and we will just end it at that. 80 million baby boomers are going to retire in the next 40 years. to my good friend from alabama. who feels friend like we have too much legal immigration -- i am taking strom thurmond place. he got married and started having kids at 67. unless all of us started doing that, we have a problem. in 1965, there were 15 workers for every social security retiree, today there are three, and in 20 years there will be two. i am part of the problem. i am not married and i do not -- i am married and i do not have any kids.

wet there is a baby boom, had better hope we improve the system. more legald immigration. . wish we can do more who will take care of the baby boomers. who will replace the workers if we do not have better immigration question mark what did the cbo said about this bill. 20 years, you reduce the deficit. how can that be? how can you reduce the deficit by $890 million if you do not create economic activity? to the american worker, the biggest threat to you is illegal immigration. tell me how it is better to continue

how does that american worker -- how does that help the american worker? this bill brings people out of the shadows on our terms, not theirs. you get to stay here if we decide you can stay. we are regaining our sovereignty that has been lost. your system is broken from top to bottom. every nation has the right to control its borders and control who gets the job. i am glad to have my name on it and doing nothing is the worst thing for the american worker. we will stop paying people under the table. have you ever been to a meatpacking plant? find out who was working in the plant. mostly, hispanics, people from other parts of the world full.

our population is declining and our needs for legal immigration is growing. this bill does that. the economy. it will increase our gdp by 3.5% over time. it is good for america to have legal immigration. you will be brought out of the shadows and you will stay on our terms. if you have committed a felony, you are not eligible. here is what we are going to allow. go through a criminal background fine, get right with the law, and you will have a legal status. get to pay taxes like the rest of us and get to know the irs. welcome to america. we're going to create order out of chaos. working andpeople

paying and rather than taking out under the table. abovee are going to do all else is we are going to prove to ourselves that we can work together for the common good. i have never been more proud to be involved in the issue than i have trying to fix illegal immigration because it is a national security threat, a cultural threat. i am doing great among hispanics in south carolina. many who vote in the republican primary. i have tried to work with my processes to start a that would pay great dividends. you.nator grassley, thank

been more proud to be in the senate than i am today . to my critics, i respect your criticism. to the american people, who are , the greatest a deliberativedy -- body. have a second chance, take advantage of it, embrace the fact that you are being given a second chance. whate american people, is that beingal french means you're french, being german means you are german. in american means nothing about from, beingyou come an american is an idea that so

many people embrace. ladies and gentlemen, being an american is something everybody wants to be part of. unfortunately, we cannot allow everybody in. durbin.o thank senator i want to tell my colleagues in the city, this is a day i have been waiting for. thank you so very much. let me thank senator graham, senator mccain, senator rubio, schumer,rank, senator and senator bennett. seven of us came together to create a bill and we did a lot more. a bond of friendship and trust and the life experience that none of us will

ever forget. each of us brought our special pleadings to this negotiation. i argued for protection of refugees and american american workers, access to immigration program, aorming the path to citizenship. my colleagues knew from the start that there was one issue that was more important to me than any other. madam president, it was 12 years ago when i first introduced the dream act. i did it for this young woman. they were about to deport her .rom chicago back to korea she was 18 years old. she did not know any of the country -- any of the country >> she did not know any other

country but the united states. she was an excellent pianist. she was about to be deported. i introduced the dream act to help her and hundreds of thousands just like her. this story ends well. , sheinished her education is working on a phd in music, she played in carnegie hall and she married an american and she is a citizen. bettermerica have been a place if she were deported? of course not. the plight of teresa and this bill the dream act became a cause, a national campaign. in the beginning, teenagers used to come up to me in chicago filled with emotion, meet me at my car. i am a dreamer, can you help me? over time, their numbers grew and so did their courage. they stood up as they have so

many times and so many places and said, i am willing to fight to be part of america's future. it was not easy for them. i had a press conference in the capital. i invited the dreamers to tell their stories. i hate filled congressman from colorado called the immigration authorities and said a those kids. they left that press conference more determined to see the dream act become a reality. we called the bill on the senate floor and it failed. we could not break the filibuster. the galleries were filled with streamers in caps and gowns. bill for a vote and we lost. we could not break the filibuster. one of the saddest meetings i ever had to place afterwords. i went downstairs and i met with these dreamers. their heads were down and they were crying and they said, what

can we do? i said to them, i am never giving up on you, do not give up on me. today, i have a message. gabby, and all of the jury murders in the galleries here, and all around the country -- for all of the dreamers in the galleries here and all around the country, your determination kept us going and your faith in the only country you have ever called home has been rewarded. this bill before us has the strongest dream act ever written . i listen to my colleagues speak about immigration. those of us to support this bill have not talked about the details of the bill. we talked about what this means to us personally. what immigration means to america.

for anyone in this chamber who believes this is just another vote, go to a naturalization ceremony. watch those new citizens as they take that oath to be part of this country. you cannot help but feel the emotion that courses through them at that moment. let me say a final word about the senate. i am proud to represent the great state of illinois. we are elected to make this nation better. the aid of us came together across the aisle, we cheered one

another and we wrote a bill together. to my fellow colleagues, it is your turn. reach across the isle and show the american people the senate can still rise to the challenge. show the skeptical nation that the faith in our founding fathers will be honored by our generation. i yield the floor. >> i would like to thank senator durbin for his compelling remarks and his deep and abiding concern for many years concerning the so-called dreamers. i would like to thank all of my other six colleagues for their involvement and i would also ,ike to thank senator corcoran i would like to think -- i would like to thank my colleague senator frank, and i would like to mention senator lindsey graham who gave his own unique

perspective as well is my friend from colorado, senator bennett, and also senator schumer. the word friend is tossed around , but these seven individuals are my friends. we are friends of america. by oursent here constituents to achieve results and i do not know at this particular time of a greater issue that we should be involved in. we have heard a lot of personal stories today and i am deeply moved by all of them. there is another human story, there are millions of them. i would like to tell you a few of them. arizona last week, the newspapers have reported that eight bodies were found in the

arizona desert. the arizona desert is in triple digit temperatures. men may haveour been dead three days before their bodies were found in the arizona desert by border patrol agents. 24, the associated press sheriff's deputies found another body in the arizona desert. days after four bodies were discovered in the same area. no identification was found on the body and there were no signs of trauma or foul play. today, the arizona daily star reported that three byomposing bodies were found border patrol agent in the desert over the weekend.

there have been 12 people rescued from the desert by agents. the list goes on and on. since 2007, the last time we tried to pass this legislation, more than 2425 immigrants have died trying to cross our south west border. these are people who wanted to come to this country because they realize the american dream. that is what they risk their lives and give their lives for. yes, they did so illegally. they are willing to pay a penalty for crossing our border illegally. should we give them the same chance that we have given generation after generation of immigrants who have come to this ofntry, wave after wave irish and italian and poland.

us to bring a lab in the -- is meant and asked to bring 11 million people out of ?hadows how do we address some of these. secure theation does border and i can tell you from 30 years of being on the border, this bill secures the border and anyone who says it does not does not understand our security needs because i have been there and i have seen the technology. the technology that was developed in iraq and afghanistan which will give us surveillance. there is a bill with 20,000 new additional border patrol agents, but the fact is the technology that is there now will give us the ability for 100% situational awareness and to intercept. i guarantee because i saw it work. there are 700y -- miles of total fencing, 700

miles. my friend, we will also have additional border patrol. to this bill?y the key is this bill is not only because the fencing on the border and the border patrol, but it is 40% of the people overstayed their visas. they did not cross the southwest border. what do we do about that? makes sure every person who wants to come to this country illegally will know that person cannot get a job year. here.ob i am confident and so are the people who are really knowledgeable that it will be a full proof system with 95% effectiveness. us alegislation will give

secure border, and it will address the key element. people who now want to come here thatllegally will know they cannot. employers will know that if they hire someone here illegally, they will pay severe penalties for doing so. today, there is 11 million people. they are in violation. mention, theto people coming across our borders. there is a thing called coyotes. they are drug cartel people, the most evil people on earth. they bring them across the border many times. the reason why we find these bodies in the desert, we are leaving you. do you know what they do? they keep them and drop houses jammed together and they hold them for ransom under the most unspeakable conditions.

they have used the people they bring up. it is an unacceptable situation. 50,000 mexican citizens have been killed by the drug cartels. hundreds of migrants were missing were killed in mexico. government does not know how to handle the situation. drugs.ll complicated by president, i have had great opportunity to have many experiences. the one i will never forget was july 4, 2007. senator lindsey graham, joe lieberman were in baghdad for the fourth of july. general petraeus requested that we speak at a reenlistment ceremony where 800 brave young

men and women serving in the military were reenlisting to stay and fight. there was another group who were green cardholders who because they joined the military had an accelerated path to citizenship. i was honored to be there. in the front row, there were four empty seats. women who were green cardholders who had lost their lives in combat in the previous 48 hours. men willing to risk their lives and serve our country in order to be citizens. i have never been so deeply moved. madam president, let's give these 11 million people a chance to do the same. [applause] >> senator from texas. i know the gang of eight members responsible for the

basic framework of this legislation have done tremendous work and have advanced the substance and tone of our discussion in measure blaze since 2007, which is the last time we had a major immigration bill on the floor. i think the american people understand that the status quo is simply unacceptable. we have a broken immigration is de facto amnesty . we have a system which is lawless and uncontrolled and it operates neither in the best interest of our country economically nor represents our values. the american people are famously generous and compassionate. as a society, we believe in second chances. all of us have benefited from second chances and i believe the american people believe those

who come here to america in violation of our immigration laws, if they are willing to register,ay a fine, and live in compliance with our laws, they should get a second chance. that the american people support a permanent legalization program for 11 million immigrants living in the but only if they are convinced that congress has made sure they will never have to do this again. i believe the american people believe the borders are controlled, if they believe we had biometric injury-exit system system, if we

had an effective eve verify system, if werify had those three legs in place, the american people would do the generous thing, the compassionate thing, and give second chances to the 11 million people. , androblem with this bill i say this more out of sadness than anything else, the promises of this bill have simply not been kept. we were told six months ago that the pathway to citizenship was securityt upon border and enforcement measures. introduced an amendment which would conditions of transfer for probationary status to legal permanent residency on a certification that the objectives on operational security at the borders have

been met. i believe by doing so, we would realign all of the incentives for the political parties, everybody would be focused like a laser on how we would get this done. ? if wewe hit that mark had had a mechanism in this bill which did not depend on congress keeping future promises, i believe we could regain the trust and confidence of the american people, such that we could get to a successful outcome. unfortunately, the proposal i made to do exactly that has been rejected. the assistant democratic leader has made the point recently that permanent legalization has been delinked from border security. i believe the problems in this legislation go well beyond the border. the solution my colleagues have

patrol, i000 border was told even though the gang of eight bill offered zero border patrol, i was told that was a budget. 5000 new border patrol. now we find 20,000 additional border patrol provided for in this bill. we have been told we have a surge of law enforcement to the border and a huge investment in their technology and boots on the ground. the only thing missing is a plan to make sure those people are actually employed in the technology will be deployed in a way that secures the border. i know the surge worked in afghanistan, but i am not so sure we need a military surge in south texas and in the absence of any plan to make sure people are going to be effectively utilized. believesay, i do not

the promises made in this bill will ever be cap. i do not believe we will ever have an extra 20,000 border patrol agents. i do not believe the huge investment in technology lover be made because it depends on this congress and this administration and future congresses and future administrations. you have the american people to grant the gift of the pathway to citizenship to demonstrate the believe in second chances and demonstrate their compassion. in essence, they have been trade thate again to in exchange for hollow promises. i think it is an unacceptable deal. the problem with this legislation extends beyond that. this bill grants immediate legal status to people with multiple misdemeanors and convictions for driving while intoxicated and

spousal abuse. you can have been deported out of the country for having bemitted a crime and yet eligible for reentry into the country and eligible for probationary status. that is shocking. i understand why we want to give people who are economic migrants an opportunity to get right with the law and to get on with their lives. why would we want to extend that generosity who -- to people who show nothing but contempt for the rule of law? this bill also hinders law enforcement by making confidential the information contained in applications for probationary status that are rejected. this happened back in 1986 and i remember a quote from the senior senator from new york after that time, that was one of the biggest sources of fraud in the amnesty of 1986.

my hope would be we would not repeat that mistake again by keeping that information confidential. who sure only people qualify for this generosity are able to do so. the only -- the other problem with this bill is that it is a budget buster. was border patrol agents too much, i was told. now we have $30 billion more in additional spending being rummaged and the argument is that somehow this is free money. -- being promised and the argument is that somehow this is free money. the problem is, that is double counting the money. it is the money coming into the treasury because of people who , paying intotered social security, but it takes

that money to spend on these other programs and does not recognize the fact that money is also going to be need to be available to pay future benefits. bookkeeping and we ought to reject it. this bill adds to the budget .hat -- budget debt is atime when our debt $17 trillion, it strikes me as the wrong thing to do to say we will add further to that debt and to jeopardize our fiscal health. madam president, it gives me great pain to say that i think this is an opportunity that we have failed to take advantage of. we could have done better and we should have done better and this bill is unworthy of my support and it would be unworthy of the support of a number of members.

i hope the house of representatives takes up this issue. , iwill not be like this bill am confident of that. the house has far different views. we have a true bipartisan consensus that the status quo is unacceptable. we have to do better. unfortunately, this bill does not keep the promises. click the senate passed the immigration bill 68-32. the bill now goes to the house, where speaker boehner says members will work on their own version. >> we will do our own bill through regular order and it will be legislation that reflects the will of our majority and the will of the

american people. for any legislation, including the conference report, to pass the house is going to have to be a bill that has the support of the majority of our members. immigration reform has to be grounded in a real border security. that is what the american people believe and that is the principal that our majority believes. the chairman is doing good work over on the judiciary committee. if immigration reform is going to work, it is essential the american people have the confidence that it is being done correctly. that is how the house will approach the issue. >> [inaudible] you seemed more confident than than you seem now. what do you see as the path for reaching what you

talked about? we will go through regular order. the senate will pass their bill today. we will go home for the recess next week and listen to our constituents. back, we will have a conference on july 10 and discuss the way forward. i do not want to make any predictions. we will have a conversation to determine a pathway forward. people have to have confidence that the border is secure before anything else is going to work. otherwise, we repeat the mistakes of 1986. >> are there any circumstances under which you could support a pathway to citizenship for people who are here illegally? >> my job is to determine the my job isvisions --

to facilitate a discussion between both parties in terms of how we are going to deal with this issue. i will continue to facilitate that conversation. >> in a few moments, members of congress here from custom officials about border security. and 2.5 hours, i hearing about how healthcare is being affected. we will re-air today's senate debate. several events to tell you about tomorrow. our road to the white house continues with rand paul. he is interested in running for president. he will not decide until next year. he says he will visit key primary states. that is live on c-span. we will follow that with former

florida governor jeb bush speaking wednesday at a fundraiser for the conservative party of new york. he outlined his immigration policy. on c-span two, house oversight committee meets to discuss the -- during regarding testimony at a june 22nd irs hearing. if they vote to adopt the resolution, i could bring her back for more questions. the u.s. institute of peace will host a panel of young afghan needs talking about their country's future. you can see that on c-span three. >> this sunday, american history tv commemorates the 150th anniversary of the battle of gettysburg. -- theecame best known

main figure on this monument, the statue of the indian chief. he was the chieftain of the delaware tribe. he was known for being both a warrior and a diplomat. the 42nd new york -- in the process, they lost 15 of their men. monument was american from head to toe. represented what the nations had to offer. battleanniversary of the of gettysburg, live coverage on sunday. historians throughout the day. we will take your calls and tweets.

at 8:00, the commemorative ceremony, followed by a candlelight procession to soldiers national cemetery. we will end the day at 9:15. you can submit questions today. >> oh border security oversight hearing. house members heard from customs and border protection for 2.5 hours. >> the meeting will come to order, good morning. i would like to begin by stating be oversight committee mission statement. secure two

fundamental principles, americans have the right to know the money washington takes from them is well spent. americans deserve an efficient government. our solemn responsibility is to hold government accountable to taxpayers. will work tirelessly in partnership with citizen watchdogs to deliver the facts to the american people and reform to the federal bureaucracy. good morning. thank you for coming to attend this hearing. to thank my colleagues who are here and the people in the audience for joining us today. current immigration reform debate has centered on the importance of border secure -- thethe conversation has not focused enough on how to secure orders. today's hearing will examine a variety of threats to u.s. border security.

examines howalso to measure each of these risks and the most effective responses. the department of homeland security is responsible for controlling and guarding the borders of the united states. preventing and investigating illegal movements across our border, including the smuggling of people, drugs, and weapons. to establish operational control over the international land and maritime borders of the united states authorizes the secretary of the department of homeland security to take necessary actions to secure the u.s. borders. until 2012, the security measures implemented have cost the u.s. taxpayers $75 billion.

the government accountability office reported there were only miles on of the 1954 the southwest border, six percent of the border where border control can determine or detect and apprehend illegal entry. operational control. the lack of operation control documented by gao contradicts statements made by the that the border is more secure than it has ever didn't. -- than it has ever been. of apprehensions does not indicate whether federal government efforts to secure the border are achieving operational control or not. of the fundamental questions i have, if the rise in

apprehension, does that mean the border is more secure or does that mean the border is less secure? if the number of apprehensions is declining, does that mean the border is less secure or more secure question attorneyked the general this question. he said you cannot draw conclusions based solely on apprehensions. i have asked the secretary of homeland security, who really did not give a thorough answer. it is something we need to explore to come up with a metric that we can all live with. when those metrics change, you cannot compare them to past performance. that is something we need to explore. since the creation of the department of homeland security, the committee's oversight efforts have examined the use of taxpayer dollars at the border. there are examples of wasteful spending. cost taxpayers

$1.2 billion. , members2 of this year and staff of the house oversight government reform committee to arizona to assess the most recent effort to secure the border. i appreciate the men and women we interacted with their. the committee visited the detention facility in arizona. the committee learned the otherduals classified than mexicans accounted for 900 inmates from 60 different countries out of approximately 1500 in the detention facility. ine than half of the people the detention facility were not mexicans. they were from 60 different

countries. for those that assumes that the border problem is a problem with mexico, that is not true. there is nothing statistical that would support that and if you look at the detentions, it is a much bigger problem than just people coming north from mexico. conversations with officers, there appears to be an s movingng trend of otm' across the southwest border. they are coming from latin china, and other parts of europe, asia, and other countries. ther patrol officers told committee about problems with the immigration system. the judicial process for asylum request and the government issuance of visas may contain some very serious flaws.

during our trip to the border, we found the government continues to identify new and emerging threats. including the drug cartels, ultralight aircraft, underground tunnels. they still recently found another tunnel going into the heart of the city. we hope not only to discuss these threats, but responses to some of these risks. technology which can successfully be implemented whethere border, through technology or border patrol agent, we must allocate the necessary resources to secure the border. i want to emphasize and i commend the support and the work of law enforcement officers. they do a meet work -- they do amazing work.

we cannot thank them enough for their diligent work. today's discussion should focus on understanding the threats to our border. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses for a productive conversation about securing the borders of the united states. , am disappointed that joseph the associate director for refugee asylum and international has refused to testify before the subcommittee today. the committee requested his attendance and participation 13 days ago. this by providing essential two- week notice to testify before the subcommittee, they have declined to appear. of of sufficient

notice to prepare and clear testimony and prepare a suitable witness, we will be unable to appear at the upcoming hearing on border security. i want to thank the four other people from the other agencies who were able to prepare, who did, and were briefed and are joining us today. i find it totally unacceptable that was 13 days notice, that is not sufficient time to prepare and testify about what you do every day. . thank those that are here we duly note the person who is not here and find that unacceptable. the american taxpayers deserve answers to the important questions. we have left the seat open hoping that the witness would appear today. i also want to thank and commend for his work.

he is the chairman of judiciary. as we move forward in dealing with the problem that is immigration from a legislative standpoint, it is critical that we get the border security portion right. every bit of legislation has always focused on how are we going to secure the border? there has been legislation that was passed. it dealt with securing the border. earlier, we passed legislation that would ensure a viable entry-exit system. i look forward to the congress tackling immigration reform. we appreciate those who are here today.

this anybody have an opening statement they would like to make? members may have seven days to submit 7 -- seven days to submit opening statements for the record. haeckel fisher is the chief of the u.s. border patrol. david murphy is the assistant andissioner for customs border patrol office of field operations. thomas is the executive associate director of ice enforcement. rebecca gambler is the direct your for homeland security at the government accountability office. thank you for being here today. all witnesses will be sworn before they testify. stand and raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear that the

testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? thank you. a witnesses answered in the affirmative. forrder to allow time discussion, limits your testimony to five minutes. your entire written statement will be part of the record. we will give you some latitude. fisher recognize mr. first. it is an honor and privilege to be before you today to discuss the identification and response to current threats. for our 2014 operations, u.s. border control -- patrol continues to be guided by the three pillars of our strategy. information, integration, and rapid response. criminalonal

organizations and the networks that support them continue to exploit the border in arizona and south texas. the first time in over a decade, illegal cross-border activity is more prevalent in south texas than any other core door. activity in south texas accounts -- accounts for 34%. 60% of these arrests are from nationals from some other country than mexico. guatemala, honduras, and el salvador. the current activity in south texas needs to be put in proper context. the daily apprehension rate is approximately 40% less than what it was in 1997. we continue to mature our integrated operations and each court or other federal, state, and tribal partners.

we cannot achieve border security alone. as the incremental transition of activity shifted to south texas, we took the following actions. classested most academy to south texas, increasing the overall was on the ground in high risk areas. we redeployed 100 pieces of technology to south texas. asse were equipment such ground sensors, mobile surveillance systems and thermal imaging systems. we entered into a memorandum of understanding with the department of defense to allow the transfer of monitoring equipment from the military. forces, weawdown of sought to capitalize on the opportunity to reuse equipment to assess front-line agents.

we recently delivered the first installment of this equipment to the field. 200 24 detection and monitoring systems that have been inventoried and sent to the , 70% went toder south texas. we initiated vulnerability assessment along the southwest border utilizing predator bs. to date, we have developed more than any target folders covering approximately 320 nine contiguous miles. we continue to leverage geospatial collection to augment our capabilities. my team has designed and implemented a formidable strategy and we continue to learn and adjust our tactics and procedures as conditions to date -- dictate.

we will reduce the likelihood of attack against the nation and continue to provide the requisite safety and security to the citizens who deserve no less. thank you for the opportunity to testify today. i look forward to answering your questions. >> i will not recognize mr. murphy for five minutes. >> good morning. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. i appreciate the leadership and look forward to discussing the progress that we have made in securing the border. we define a secure border as a well-managed border where risks are identified and addressed. every day, we carry our mission to protect the people and the economy of the united states by preventing dangerous people and goods from entering the country while expediting legitimate trade and travel.

traffic at our ports of entry type,s by environment, cargo, and mode of transportation. trucks, packaged or bolt. age of these environments, presents -- each of these environments prevents a different threat. thanyear, we welcomed more 350 million passengers and processed 2.3 trillion in total trade value. seeing volume increases in all environments. one of the most substantial a volumee have seen increase of 12% since 2009. the mast majority -- our goal is to identify those travelers and

shipments that made present a risk. we're working to find and stop the proverbial needles in a haystack while the haystack is moving. we continue to improve our ability to do this and to focus our resources on those people and goods that present the highest potential risk. have work to extend our borders outward. now screens people and goods earlier in the process on before boarding passengers or loading cargoes onto lanes or vessels. since 2009, we have expanded our predeparture screening efforts and now checks all air travelers against government databases prior to boarding. -- all manifests are

screened before they are on the vessels. 85% of all high-risk shipments are examined and addressed. in addition to improving our identifynd mitigate -- and mitigate. we have seen a marked facilitation improvement to the development of a series of transformation initiatives that increase the speed of our processing, including the expansion of the trusted traveler program, the elimination of paper forms and the increased use of technology. pursue the strategies, which increase security and streamline the border process for people and goods. these types of programs have not only increased our ability to -- it has provided significant

security benefits. the number limited of acceptable travel documents and increased our ability to , resulting in a decreased use of fraudulent documents. as we refine our efforts along the southwest border, transnational criminal organizations have begun to use nontraditional smuggling methods . ever improving efforts continue to force these organizations to attempt a myriad of our costly and less successful smuggling techniques. in 2009 and 2010, we focused on agricultural reduction efforts -- protection efforts. these tests could rip these -- these pests. we saw a record levels of

interceptions. the state of border security continues to improve at our ports of entry. we have made tremendous progress , having pushed our security measures beyond our immediate borders. we have maintained and increased our mission effectiveness while facing increasing demand for growing passenger and trade volume and we continue to seek ways to improve. thank you for the opportunity to testify. i look forward to your questions. >> good morning. on behalf of secretary napolitano, thank you for the opportunity to appear to discuss the significant progress ice and dhs have made to secure our borders. ice is the principal

investigative agency within dhs and the second-largest in the federal government. the men and women play a critical role of securing the border and carrying out smart and effective immigration enforcement policies. enforcement, homeland security investigation, and the office of the principal of the advisor. we investigate a large range of crimes. . am the head of ero, --ead a program that removes i have been a federal law enforcement officer for 29 years. been spent in immigration enforcement. i have seen and worked the entire lifecycle of immigration enforcement.

i have tackled smuggling organizations. . focus on smart enforcement years, icest four has focused resources on removals of individuals. they include people who are threats to national security and illegalafety, recent border crosser's and those who obstruct immigration control. last year, ice or moved 410,000 aliens. 55% of them had criminal convictions. 96% of those aliens fit into those categories i mentioned above. manages --ly operational needs on the southwest border can change quickly.

in has an infrastructure place to meet those needs. the successes could not have been achieved without the implementation of efficient policies issued by secretary napolitano. we must work closely with our dhs partners in order to meet our goals. 44% of detainees came from the cbp. our joint efforts are critical to the nation's border enforcement efforts and i am proud of the working relationships i have with my colleagues. commitmentt of our are held our reforms appropriately and classified according to their risk. we have put in place strong safeguards against abuse. i haveh the success outlined today have been the result of reasonable immigration

policies and priorities. resources in ar smart and effective manner. we are making the public safer by targeting our resources. thank you for inviting me to testify. i am pleased to answer any questions you might have. thank you. >> [inaudible] efforts to secure the border. has increased resources allocated to securing borders. in fiscal year 2004, the border patrol had over 10,000 agents. in 2011, there are over 21,000 agents. the number of customs and border protection officers stationed at ports of entry has increased

from over 17,000 in 2004 to more than 20,000 in fiscal year 2011. dhs has deployed technology and infrastructure to border areas. d.h.s.'s efforts to secure our nation's borders. irst i will highlight our work review g.a.o.'s efforts. second i will discuss their work regarding their efforts and their work on managements for securing the border. with regard to my first point, border patrol data shows from 06 to 2011 apprehension at each border sector declined. changes in the u.s. economy and increases in resources. fiscal year 2012 data reported by the border patrol indicated

that apprehensions across the southwest border increased from fiscal year 2011 but it is too arly to see whether this indicates a trend. entrees in each southwest border sector also declined. other data collected by the border patrol are used by sector management to inform assess yments of its efforts. the percentage of estimated known legal entrants apprehended more than once which is referred to it is a recidivism rate and contraband procedures. our analysis shows that the rate decreased across southwest border sectors between 2008 and 2011 with regard to drug and other contraband seizures the number of seizures increased by 83% from fiscal year 2006 to

2011. since fiscal year 2011 d.h.s. has used the number of apprehensions on the southwest border between port s of entree as an interim performance measure. this does not position to department to be able to report how effective its efforts are after securing the border resulting in reduced oversight and d.h.s. accountability. it is in the process of developing goals and measures but has not set time frames for completing its efforts. we recommend they establish such time frames to ensure they are completed in a timely manner. it plans to establish such time frames by november 2013. regard to my second point, d.h.s. and other agencies have reported improvements of border enforcement operations. for example partners responsible

for securing is federal lands along the borders have sited increased information sharing and communication. however our work has also identified opportunities for improvement of existing inner ency agreements and stronger oversight. finally d.h.s. has deployed infrastructure to borders. they have faced a number of challenges in planning for and managing its technology programs and other assets. for example, our work has shown that they can better document the analysis they have used to determine the types, quantity tiss and locations of technology if plans to deploy to the southwest border under its new technology plan. further, c.v.p. -- hindering their efforts to assess the effectiveness of the plans going forward. in closing, our work has

identified opportunities to strengthen border security programs and efforts. we have made a number of recommendations to the department to address various challenges. d.h.s. has generally concurred with our recommendations and is taking actions to address them. we will continue to monitor d.h.s. in these areas. this concludes my prepared station and i'll be happy to take questions. >> thank you. to say er, is it safe there are no -- >> currently they are using the number of apprehensions on the southwest border. >> that is an incomplete metric. would you agree with that? >> that measure does not position the border patrol and d.h.s. to be able to assess the effectiveness of its efforts. >> thank you very much. mr. murphy.

my understanding is we have no entry/exit system, particularly at the land-based ports to gauge whether who is coming in and who's going out. correct? >> no, sir. i would not say that is completely correct. i think we have made some significant improvements in sophistication in entrance. obviously that has been the focus as far as the exit. we are working on that. that is a significant issue. we're well aware of it. >> do you have any statistics to show how many people actually leave the country? >> no, sir. right now -- >> my understanding is that the majority of visas that this country offers are what are alled b-1 and b-2 entry-exits. i sat and watched this. thousands of people streemed into the country. in 2011 my understanding is we approved through the state department 4.3 million of these

cards where people are supposed to be in the country temporarily, right? >> yes, sir. >> how many people came into the country using a b-1, b-2 entry /exit card? >> i don't have that number, sir. >> is it something that the agency has? >> oh, yes, we track what comes in. it is what is going out we need to get a better handle on. >> when you say better handle, do you track any of them going out? >> our operations are geared towards intelligence. >> that's not what i asked you. >> no, we don't. >> so we're letting millions of people, roughly almost a million a day into the country. we have no idea how many are going out. is that fair to say? >> yes, sir. >> this is current law, right? it is current law that we're supposed to have an entry-exit program. why don't we have an exit

program? >> we're working on it, sir. >> look. you have been there -- how long have you worked in the agency? >> 29 years, sir. >> why don't we have an exit program? it is not good enough to just smile at me. >> no, sir, i don't have a good answer for you. >> is it a funding issue? is it a lack of commitment? is it unavailable software? if you're telling me we are gauging when they come into the country, why aren't we gauging when they come out of the issue? >> it is a costly issue too. we would have to replicate what we have coming into the country ports of entry at ports of entry going out of the country to get our arms around that issue. >> we're told that 40% of the people that are here illegally came here legally. when we don't have a viable exit

system and there are no metrics. there is no information system, there is not even an attempt to try to gather some names, i am really concerned about this entry-exit program and the b-1, b-2 visas. i think it is the untold story of the immigration problem and mess that we have. when the majority of visas we n, b-1, b-2, 4.3 million gave out in 2011. you're only supposed to go out of the country some 10 miles isn't it? >> i think it is 25. we just increased it recently. >> why? why did we increase it? to what? >> i believe in new mexico, it is 55 miles. >> in parts of new mexico you can go 55 miles. do we do any monitoring of that?

>> no, sir. >> so we gauge -- there is no monitoring. we just do it on your word. millions of these out there. we issued 4.3 million entry sheriff exit cards in 2011. how many cards are out there. when you get a card, how long is that good for? just a year or forever? what do you know? >> off hand i know that they put a date on how long it is valid for, yes, sir. >> ok. so there are millions of these cards out there. just the honor system now. you're just supposed to come back. but you are not gauging even a single person as to whether or not they are returning? >> we're not capturing that now. >> all right. my time is expired. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank the gentleman and the lady for being here today. my questions are going to concentrate on fence as a

mechanism to stop transland crossings. have we -- this is to any of you -- has the fence between california and mexico improved nondocumented workers and illegals? mr. fisher? you're nodding your head. >> yes, congresswoman. the innocence particular, san diego, has had an impact at reducing the flow of people into the united states in those areas where we do have a fence. >> ok. how much of the intense the completed on the arizona-mexico border? >> internal there is about 652 miles across the southwest border that has been complete. some of that is pedestrian fence and some of that is vehicle barriers. i'm not sure specificfully arizona how much of that,

arizona as you know has about 260 miles of border. within those urban areas in douglas, out to both the east and west ports of entry that has been extended a significant number of miles. >> do you believe that completing a fence on the border between mexico and arizona would e beneficial to preventing the flow of people narcotics across the border? >> i do in some locations. >> and what locations would those be? specifically along the arizona -mexico border? >> it would be in those areas where the networks and the criminal organizations like to exploit the infrastructure that exists. >> what kind of -- such as? what is legitimate infrastructure? >> if you think of the smuggling organizations like a business that are trying to move a commodity whether that is people or narcotics through the borders and out of the border areas. the infrastructure that that

requires them to do that is road systems. it is airports. bus stations. all of that legitimate infrastructure, that's the ports of communities within those border areas. >> what about wilderness areas where we don't have fences. where you have been restricted by other u.s. agencies from using motorized vehicles on lderness areas and the offending parties are using vehicles making it difficult for you to apprehend them. is that problematic? >> in some areas. i wouldn't quantify it as problematic. some areas prohibit -- in most situations on a steady state deployment, motorized vehicles, but we do have -- have entered into an agreement with the department of the interior and fish and wildlife to be able to go into those areas based on

intelligence if we know there is activity. so we are allowed into those areas to basically track individuals that come across. >> so you have to g get agreements with another federal agency to gain access to federal land on our side of the border? >> the agreement has already been set. the memorandum of understandsing already allows us to go on to those lands. some of that public land is protected under environmental laws. we have the agreement that we are allowed to go in when we are actually working the border. >> ok. so you can pursue somewhat? >> yes. >> can you protect the border? can you patrol the border? >> in some areas we can. >> with vehicles? >> yes, vehicles, horse back and a lot of the detection is made from the air also. >> the tucson border has been an area where we have seen significant crossings. >> that's correct.

>> is that now the second most prevalent area to cross? >> it is -- well, in terms of apprehensions right now, it is second only to the rio grande valley in south texas area. >> it continues to be a major source of crossings? >> yes. >> what would be your recommended best deterrent to illegal cross information that area, in mexico, excuse me, mexico and arizona? >> certainly. there is a couple of things. i would not invest in one thing in particular. one is additional technology. detecting and monitoring. >> you know, we have seen some technology reports that some of the technology has failed and was expensive and its failure has not necessarily been corrected. how is that going? the f.b.i. net. what is the department's plan to improve that technology?

the border radar system? >> about three years ago when the f.b.i. was being assessed secretary napolitano asked the c.b. fombings make an assessment whether werked continue exploring that type of technology. >> $1.2 billion has been spent on that? >> that's my understanding. >> and you're assessing whether that is going forward in a productive way? >> we made that assessment and our recommendation to the secretary, which he agreed to was to invest more in the mobile technology and not to invest in things like s. bimbings net which were more static. >> my time has expired. thanks, mr. chairman. >> will you please provide to this committee the interagency working agreements on your ability to patrol and pursue

potentially people that are here illegally on public lands that are designated wilderness or similar wilderness study areas, those types of things. is that something you can provide to this committee? >> yes, mr. chairman. >> how long would it take to get that to us? >> i'll take that back as an action item right after the hearing. >> when is a reasonable time where i should get upset if you haven't provided it to me. >> far be it for me. >> you're in charge here. you make a decision. what is the date? all right. july 3. is that fair? >> you read my mind, sir. [laughter] >> thank you. we'll now recognize the gentleman from tennessee, mr. duncan. >> thank you very much. mr. chairman, chief fisher, just out of curiosity, can you give me a rough number of how large or how many border patrol agents there were when you started with

the agency 26 years ago? >> less than 3,000, sir. >> less than 3,000? >> yes, sir. >> the reason i asked that, i remember, we gave big increases in funding for border control in the 1990's and now of course we have heard miss gambler say that since 2004 we have gone from 10,000 agents to 21,000, i think it was. of course now the senate has passed an amendment now saying that we're supposed to double that again, and frankly, i know you can never satisfy any government agencies' appetite for money or land. i'm really skeptical as to whether we can official efficiently, effectively spend all of the money that we're throwing at this effort and increase the number of agents

that much, that quickly. what do you say about that, commissioner murphy? how big was customs when you started 29 years ago? >> sir, to be honest with you i don't know what that number is. but obviously as you indicate, there is, you know, significant work to be done, that is the determination of the right number. i mean, that is obviously something i think is going to have to be decided. >> isn't the number coming across in large part determined by the economy and so the economy in mexico and the economy here, because i read during our downturn that the numbers coming across greatly decreased and there were more people or a lot of people who had come here illegally were going back to mexico or other countries. is that true? >> well, sir, as you may be aware, one thing that we have

done to try to transform the way we look at the border and the way we look at the numbers that we need, we created the workload staffing model. this takes 100 different data elements and over a million calculations that takes into account the current volume of activity, apprehension, seizures, hours of operation, how many folks that are onboard now and it basically takes that number and it is a very dynamic process and it will tell you based upon that workload, this is -- and the time it takes to do those different functions in the workload how many bodies that you need. the nice thing about this one is it is not a static process. a very dynamic process. so in the case where you're indicating say you see an uptick in activity at a port of entry in an area for a year or two, that workload staffing model will dictate what that number should be based upon volume and activity and workload. >> let me stop you.

a lot of what you said is very bureaucratic and i've got a little bit of -- just a little bit of time left. what do you say about the statement by ms. gambler that because of the transition using the operational control and so forth that she says therefore until new goals and measures are developed, d.h.s. and congress could experience reduced oversight in d.h.s. accountability. what do you say about that? that is a pretty serious charge really. of could say our level collaboration has never been higher. my staff meets with the border patrol staff once a week. we -- as a matter of business, we detain all recent border entrants, so i think we're doing the right thing. with the resources we have, i think we're executing the

mission at an all-time high. my removal is at a record high. my detention is at a record high and i think the mission that us and the border patrol working c.b.p. and along with makes sense. >> 4.3 million coming across just on one program. can anybody on the panel tell me how many people are entering this country legally each year? does anybody have -- ms. gambler, do you know anything about that? somebody should know something surely. >> we can provide that number to you, sir. i don't know the number off the top of my head. >> what are the latest estimates as to how many are coming across illegally. surely this panel should know something like that. your latest guesses or estimates. >> our estimates right now sir,

we're averaging approximately this fiscal year approximately 1,100 apprehensions. if you take a look at the rate and getting what the chairman mentioned as the denominator, trying to get that known flow, we don't have those estimates now but we are working towards getting that as well. >> well, i think that is something you should provide to us as soon as you get it. >> agreed. >> all right. thank you very much. >> following up on that, mr. fisher, how many turned back per day? >> i would have to go back. i don't know specifically what that number is. but we do track that. >> how many gotaways? >> i can do that as well. i don't have that number at the top top of my head. it is approximately 75%. >> again, i really challenge that number, as i think the g.a.o. does. those are just the known -- those are the known gotaways. right? does not include turned backs or

t.b.s.'s? >> it includes all of that. the gotaways and the turnbacks. when you look at that and add them together and divide that by the total entries that is the effectiveness rate. >> that assumes that we -- what about the ones we're not aware of. >> right. there are two different methodologies we use. the intelligence piece, the use of the predator piece, to shrink the border and increase the aware sons we have a better sense of awareness to cover that border. >> the always dap every mr. gowdy. >> thank you. i want to welcome all of our witnesses. chairman chaffetz shared a bit of philosophy with me a couple of nights ago at dinner and i wrote it down to make sure i got it right. he said if you don't know where you are going, you probably won't know when you get there.

yeah, that's what he said. ms. gambler. i am asked constantly about border security. ambitious what is an but reasonable goal with respect to border security to the extent that it is a conditioned precedent to any other part of immigration reform? what are we looking for? >> congressman, setting a goal for border security would be the responsibility of d.h.s. >> i know, but i'm asking you if ou were empress for the day, what would you do? what is a realistic but ambitious goal? >> again, that is a responsibility for the department to set that -- >> and i appreciate -- >> call for congress -- would be the case for any bill, g.a.o.'s role would be to re-review the

implementation of any provisions or program that the executive branch might implement resulting from a bill if we were asked to do so. >> how long have you been with g.a.o.? >> since 2002. >> all right. so that is 11 years? >> yes. >> surely, you have an opinion on what is likely to work? because you -- you probably are following the debate just like the rest of us are. before you get to any other aspect of immigration reform, they want to make sure the border is secure. that is an easy phrase to use but it is a hard phrase to implement. so what is a realistic definition of a secure border? >> what we recommended is that the department of homeland security set a goal for its border security efforts and then set metrics for assessing progress made against those -- against that goal. d.h.s. is in the process of developing those goals and measures and we have suggested they set time frames for

completing those goals and meck metrics so that there are mechanisms in place for assessing the goals and how they can be measured. >> why is there not currently a goal or am i just naive? > on fiscal year 2011 d.h.s. was using operational control to measure border security. they discontinued it. >> why? >> they told us they wanted to move toward more quantifyable metrics for border security and using the number of apprehensions on the southwest border was designed to be an interim measure. they said they were going to put those metrics in place by fiscal year 2012 but have been using the number of apprehensions as the interim measure and we recommended again that they set time frames and milestones. >> let me ask it another way. if you had to go back to your hometown and you had to stand in

front of people who were asking you whether or not the border was secure, what metrics would you use in answering their question? >> if i was asked that question, i would say that the department has not yet set goals and measures for assessing how secure the border is and so that makes it difficult to assess against criteria or a yardstick. >> difficult may be an understatement. it makes it kind of hard for those of us who are interested in getting on to the next steps of immigration reform, if you don't get over the precedent and can prove to your constituents that you have a reasonable but ambitious border security goal, it makes the rest of this pretty tough. visa overstays. do you know how they are currently investigated? >> we issued a report in april, 2011 and have an ongoing to work. that will issue in july, this next month. >> i promise i'm going to read the report, but you already know something about the issue.

currently if mr. chaffetz were here on a visa and he overstayed, how would we know? how would we investigate it? how would we decide what we were going to about it? what is currently being done? >> if a foreign national enters the u.s. and there is no corresponding departure record for that person that, record would be tested against numerous d.h.s. databases and would be prioritized against i.c.e.'s law enforcement and public safety priorities. if the person met those priorities, their information, their record would be sent forward for investigation to i.c.e. field offices. >> you wouldn't have to wait for that person to commit some other offense or have some other enter action with government would you, surely? >> the overstay that i.c.e. is prortizing is those who meet their public safety and national security priorities.

if the person would not meet those priorities and they were likely an overstay, they would not be investigated by i.c.e. >> i was going to thank my friends for their service and also ask them about what role if any state and local law enforcement should play in assisting them but i'm out of time, so i yield back. >> the gentleman from south carolina seems to be most interested in -- based on the formula that ms. gambler just shared the majority of visas that we give out in this country are b-1, b-2 entry-exits. mr. murphy testified they don't track any of the exits. none of them, so we have absolutely zero information about who may be overstaying, going beyond the bounds because they are variable. they are only supposed to go into certain parts of the country. it is probably the biggest gaping hole we have at our border. there is no tracking. there is no information. there is no statistics.

there is no field reports. there is nothing unless that person commits a crime and i would hope that we could provide, the agency would be able to provide through may be the department of justice and others a report of how many people committed crimes that b-2,here on a b- 1, and somehow, someway, we are going to honor that number. but now i will recognize the gentleman for mr. 5 -- for five minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, and think you for appearing here today. maybe you can help me clear up questions i have. i keep hearing that we have a 11 million people here that should not be here. how did we arrive at that number? if we have no way of knowing who you did not catch, how do you come up with the figure of 11

million? know where that number comes from. i have heard it, but i don't know the attributes of where it comes from. >> it could be more. >> we don't know. committed and nobody is there, how do you know that a crime was committed. except evidence. what border does technology cover? percentage,know the but i can find out and get back to you. we have approximately 15,000 pieces of equipment covering 17,000 miles. it does not cover all the while, but it is in terms of what the equipment can do. i don't know the percentage, but

we can factor that as well. thermalas that do imaging, when you detect somebody crossing illegally, what is the response to that? >> it depends on where the entry is detected, where we have patrol agents or within the first 100 meters. the tactics and techniques of agents on the ground will determine where is the best way to make the approach in a safe and secure manner. >> they had to go out there and there were 26 people that were just scattered. twodo you send one or agents? the terrain that i was and when i tore the border, is there another way? but 23 got three,

away. is that how we determine the number 11 million? >> whether there is one that agent for more responding, it determines how they determine the strategy. they may not know, it might be a center indication. we may not have specific quantities of individuals. the office provides over watch for us. if, in fact, they come across a group of 23, we would continue tracking operations and more resources would be brought to bear to continue the extent possible and make sure that we apprehend everybody.

>> the personal gliders. to increase profit margins.

>> can you explain catch and release? >> it was a phrase a few years ago and it was coined, perhaps not the first time. the secretary of homeland part of the policy at the time is the people we were willing to apprehend, we were ,ot going to just released maintain the port of entry and make sure they are detained.

the funding ability for the enforcement and removal operations. it would request a hearing in front of an immigration judge. an administrative piece to release them on their own recognizance pending their administrative hearing from the judge. policy as adjusted depending on what resources are available. >> in front of a judge, the judge would release it, correct? >> the real border agents do the work in the field. once we have made the

determination, we issued a warrant of arrest and a notice to appear that was for an immigration hearing. >> 3 appearing before a judge, do they come back? if the present time? 75%? , probablyd depend closer to 10%. i would not want to guess at that. >> thank you, mr. chairman and for the testimony of witnesses today. challenging, to say the least on that. has additionaler personnel and technology.

he i think we can solve radiation detection portals, imaging equipment, license plate readers, and the list goes on. persons looking for work crossover, they still managed to smuggle contraband through the various points of entry. as we go forward, take a look and see. it just west, people say help

control problems there. others say that it provided significant benefits to locations in the urbanized crossing corridors. i also understand their questioning the effectiveness of the fence in looked at the high cost of building defense, the question raised for a number of years. that our work, we found dhs took steps to quantify border security in recommend they conduct a cost analysis to do that. >> hundreds of additional miles to lead, however that determine where to build that? >> i don't know how that determines where to build the fence.

to determine what contribution they are making to border security efforts. it would be an important question going forward. >> i am guessing it makes sense in some areas and a waste of money in others. >> that would be for the department of, and security to determine. >> does that sound true to you that some areas might be a good investment and others may not be? >> yes. >> and are you comfortable they're putting criteria in place to identify which is which? systems,logy, camera all on the border to detect illegal crossings. i know they previously reviewed major technology problems. if we have to invest in that

kind of technology, can you tell us what lessons we will learn from that situation? >> our body of work and looking at border security, border surveillance technology has identified challenges and the management of that technology, being delivered on schedule and within cost parameters of the technology. we issued a report on the new plan for deploying technology to arizona. documentedt fully the justification used to andort the quantities locations of technologies. >> the department is responding to reports and recommendations? >> department agreed and is taking steps to address them. we have ongoing work reviewing

that new plan and are monitoring the actions to respond our recommendations. >> we're talking about increasing the number of agents exponentially on that basis. what steps should border patrol take to make sure that the increased personnel as effectively utilized? >> the border patrol issued the new strategic plan in may of 2012. we understand the border patrol is developing a process for .ssessing the resources needed they are looking to implement it in fiscal year 2013 and 2014. >> we really focused our efforts on being risk-based as opposed asking for more and more resources into pulling them in a lateral fashion. that is as significant strategic

shift in our thinking. technology has come a long way and i can still remember getting the first pair of the night vision goggles from the military. i thought at that point, we're really going to make a difference in border security. i was able to keep 5 feet in front of me. i thought was going to change the operation. we adjusted the technology and i will tell you, it is still no replacement for well-trained border patrol agent. it doesn't matter what you have in the air or how many unintended ground sensors you have on the ground, the border agent still, a lot of times alone, they have to close 50 meters by himself or herself. as we speak right now, they are

on patrol. there is no substitute for that. it is a combination of taking a look at the best technology available. we continue to train and support the border patrol agents in the best way that we are approaching implementation for this strategy. >> we recognize the gentleman from arizona. >> in your shared testimony, you said the following. we do not use this term "operation control" as a measure of border security because of the complex magnitude of border conditions that cannot be described by a single objective measures. we cannot measure solely based on crime rate because even the safest communities have some crime. if you claim one objective why do is not enough,

they try to pass off the southern border has secure? >> is still a metric that we capture and report to the department. i compare and contrast for previous fiscal years. that in and of itself is not a good metric. he need the apprehension to peel back the layers ha. it is important to me and important to the organization to distinguish those individuals only apprehended from those individuals six or eight times. standpoint, i don't

think there is a single metric. what we have tried to do is look at transforming the way we do business. do aying to basically better job much more efficiently. i feel we will have much more success not only from the .tandpoint of apprehensions of an you aware experiment in which a drought actually looked at a corridor and the apprehension rates. there were 422 apprehensions, but there were actually 7000 people across the border. >> we have not seen that study.

>> we will trust our border security to homeland security and we don't understand that? how familiar are you with the the numbers of illegal immigrants? >> in terms of the data we reported in the december 2011 report, we reported that border patrol had a number of apprehensions -- >> based on apprehensions. than 6% actually being apprehended verses what is a known factor? >> we looked at a number of apprehensions as well. we also identified limitations with that data. that thesenting out studies are antiquated measures.

>> we are in the process of setting goals and metrics, we recommend that come up with time frames to complete that effort. i am from arizona and we have some problems here. it should be a uniform policy all the way through. coming from a number of people, it is not going to be left of the homeland's security. all avenues of law enforcement, we have limited resources.

it has not restored a lot of trust. >> operational control as the performance measure, we recorded miles were under operational control, that was in fiscal year -- >> it actually is one of the shining stars in regards to border security. that is the proper answer. there has not been the a border crossing in that 40 or 50 miles for over six years, is that not true? >> i am not aware of that specifically. >> when you're coming here to represent the dhs proposal, we need a success model.

unifiedborder fence, a application of the law, and even more important is actually prosecution. is it not true that those folks from tucson do not want to be pushed because they will get prosecuted? not specifically looked at that issue. >> i am having somebody from homeland security entertain that you will have border security all the way through, no matter, you don't know what works, and you are still coming that we are going to and trust you with border security? trust is a series of promises kept. why should i have to trust you? >> you are with the governing

accountability office. i hope that would absolve you from somebody -- the information sought from new, i think you're doing an excellent job. would producean the study mentioned at the beginning of your questions, could you? make that available for the committee? thank you. chair recognizes the gentleman from new york. >> i am concerned about commerce. not only do we need to keep bad mexico is a, but very important trading partner with america. our third largest trading

partner, and the relationship has grown tremendously in the past years. that is important to the economy of america and is also sustained through trade by some estimates of 6 million jobs in the united states. there is economic value important to our people. they say u.s. sales to mexico are larger than all u.s. exports to the countries which are brazil, russia, india, and china. mr. murphy, is it true that part of your profession is not only to protect the border, but also help facilitate trade between and >> you arees

right. there was a study that shows that by adding additional personnel to help facilitate the border security aspect, but the trade facilitation aspect, it helps build and takedown, adding to the gdp and taking lost opportunity costs. we partnered with canada and mexico, we have the twenty first century border. reinspection on pilots, a partner in closely

with mexico. i think that they have particularly matured. >> 700 of the fortune 1000 you give anan example on how you protect against terrorists and illegal guns and really bad things coming into our country? they also have a significant strength to stop terrorists or illegal guns.

>> the detection of nuclear radiological elements. the id technology right now, are trust and a traveler programs. we have a number of programs. this is the way that we can direct resources and allocate resources where they are truly needed from a trade standpoint.

>> i have read a synopsis from princeton university, one of the think tanks. the increased border security. now because the border is becoming much tougher. i ask anyone if elected comment on that, is there any substance to the idea that this report put forward?

>> we have not evaluated that issue. the tore the border fence, it isn't eyeopener. there is a comment on that as well. >> they try to receive dollars for the problem. not seeing aly significant change. what seems to be the problem?

nothing seems to be getting done. >> they really take off and land pretty much anywhere. we have and continue to experiment with ground-based radar to make sure we are able to identify ultralights and others that may be flying in that particular area. first and foremost, we enforce the laws in the united states in do so with a matter of consistency, compassion within the constitution.

even if we detect an the endgame has not been established in terms of what we can do. it will take out its cargo. i am working with the department of science and technology. the law enforcement framework and how we can mitigate this threat. >> it has been a waste of taxpayer money.

impossible to stop. we don't have the technology. intersecting narcotics and smugglers. we have a very expensive fence. i am asking questions and i just want answers. you can't put razor wire on top because people are hopping over the fence.

there is no real detection for the number of tunnels. , dogs can of this detect things in the sky as well as on the ground. we employ more dogs obverses $100 million worth of high-tech -- >> i would not to just -- i would employee canines and handlers. each section of the border is different.

the criminal organizations, understanding how they operate, the extent to which there are vulnerable. there is no cookie cutter approach to be able to do that in my opinion. >> with the government accountability office, it is that the number of immigrants has declined markedly. this amounted to a drop in

apprehensions. it suggests is currently working. if so, it is a good thing. was a lot of apprehension. >> it indicates apprehensions increased from fiscal year 2011 levels. thelso provide data estimated border patrol did decrease in southwest border sectors.

>> available to develop an alternative approach poses some concerns. >> they have been using it since fiscal year 2011. border control use a more comprehensive data point for flows across the border? with the new metrics and fiscal year 14 which will start on october 1. about you talk apprehensions' data to allocate resources? dictate where we redeploy, that decision is based on risk. within the northern, southern,

and coastal environments. we can be able to deploy and redeploy in the areas where they have operational control. additionalere to get border patrol agents, what would be the biggest need? >> we have to do that in consultation with field commanders at the border patrol agents to tell us what works and what doesn't work to put these resources in the areas of highest risk along the borders. how often do you check? what is the evaluation process? 21,000 border patrol agents, they are not shy to call

me and let me know what works and what does not work. >> do you have any current concerns about the apprehensive data? of apprehension data, it is on the number of illegal entrants at the border patrol. we identify some limitations with the data the border patrol collects and estimates for what are called turn back and not always. making comparisons across sectors. border patrol issued updated guidance for 2012 to provide for a more common approach to -- they are implementing that guidance.

>> and you feel like this will give a more complete data picture? we were trying, in some cases, we had to be very careful applying a very specific scientific method with accuracy and certitude to a function of operation that does not allow that. we are doing the best we can determine how many people came and and how many people did we apprehend? no technology or system is going to accurately make that determination going forward. >> and the chair recognizes the gentleman from arizona. i want to make a point, that we make sure that they had an opportunity to come before this committee. either he comes here or we go

there. we need to have the discussion in front of the american people. criticale things i am about, a big fan of gao. you cited a number of studies in regards to the gentleman from illinois. i need to see that same type of application from where we are coming from. mr. fisher made a comment that what works in yuma does not work in anywhere else. enforcement, apprehension, and going before justice is not true. >> of the different geographic areas do not. >> let me ask you a question. you also want to say a secure border, do you feel that folks

say that today? if we really want to start , it is secure going into the tucson sector. problems, do we not? east quick look at the border, that is always going to fluctuate. from what i understand, we have problems. it has shifted more to the texas side, but there are generalities we can hold true. can we put the slide appear on the screen? posted not atre

but 80 miles from the border. they have told us that the policies are failing. the enforcement measures are so i am saddened by the amount of illegal activity on the southern border. i am angry the federal government is not doing its part to protect citizens. seems that there is such a disconnect between those on the front lines and the bureaucrats. thankfully, we go directly to the source. raw intelligence before it is grubb in washington. the story they paint is far

different than the one painted by dhs representatives here today. one agent told me that the method for accounting border crossings is completely inadequate. the problem is that drug runners cover their tracks carefully going north because they don't want to be tracked. they are apprehended going south. they might as well get a free ride home. another agent told me when he first started, one of the supervisors started by saying apprehensions are down. we are not catching as many people. he felt he and his colleagues were going to be scolded for not doing their job. one agent, and then that puts his live on the line each day,

the border control is asinine. actually do this on a good day. that they have one or two jobs to supply drug cartels, they also say it is a constant fight with the federal government. this was the situation that can only be created by this. i would ask the you consider having another hearing at a later date. they highlight the real problems and guide us towards a real solution. it is a fascinating issue. and we primitive areas,

have apprehensions to make the country secure. >> of the chair recognizes the gentleman from florida. >> we have had it with officials that refused to appear before the committee. this is the chief investigative panel of the house of representatives. what's his name? yourt a meeting with acting chair right now. -- we willeting subpoena his butt in here or they will appear before us. this is the last time this is going to happen.

we can have a particularly dhs staffer, this is an important and it is important that he appears with these other witnesses. i am absolutely frosted and they will regret not appearing before the committee. i don't care who it is. i know your acting chair right now, sir. staff, i want a meeting within the next 24 hours with the chairman and if we have to bring i am not side, pleased. a legitimate request given

before this committee. >> emergency customs and border protection that overseas procurement, who would have the most knowledge? you are looking at mobile rather than be fixed surveillance system, is that correct? >> that is correct, sir. >> i have information from a whistle-blower, certain types of surveillance equipment that are available. they are available at over $100 million. the two principal types of surveillance equipment.

>> i am not aware of that, sir. >> this is information i have, again, on the procurement that you are taking or dividing the contract. i want a report back from both of you on what is going on and what kind of equipment is being purchased. i want a report on why you are paying twice as much for some equipment that has the same capability as others. this is something that has been brought to my attention by a whistleblower.

i want it verified and documented exactly what you're doing there. a global and tree, you can get --with a global injury, entry card? >> there were thousands of documents out their -- >> can you get in with a global entry by itself? i will have to get back to you. >> what is your position? >> to the acting assistant commissioner -- >> you can't tell me if i can get in or out with a global entry card? >> you have to have the document

and your face will appear on the screen when you're coming through. throughomeone entering canada or mexico or somewhere, and with just a global entry card? toi will have to get back you, sir. the love of god. canadian -- there is another for mexico. >> sentry fast nexus -- >> we have all these cards. i had a hearing a couple weeks ago on the id cards. o-and-so from dhs isn't here, so i can't go after him.

they are responsible for overseeing some of the standards. none of them have a dual biometric capability, right? fingerprints and iris. >> yes. it's fingerprint. >> but not dual. transcript last week, fingerprints can be altered. they're not secure. the onlynly secure -- secure means of identification is dual biometric. iris and fingerprint. but we don't have anything with iris. global entry, passport, sentry. ati believe we are looking its -- >> for a letter 12 years i've asked that it be done after

2201-- 2001. again, we don't have a person to testify. we have a document being used that can be dependable. >> i know that you have to have that card peacoat where did they send these people from? dear god. wait a second. did you have two runs? that is my first run. run.l go into my second did you have a waiting democrat? i will come back and tried to recover in the meantime.

from new mexico. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, and to the panel. i am an interesting position in that we have a small and unique border from new mexico to mexico. we are affected primarily by the border at el paso. we don't get the same investments, the same federal investments, the border protection issues. we of public safety issues, one of the highest drug trafficking .nd substance abuse problems

now we have a legal pathway for folks to go back and forth. i am absolutely concerned about security issues, and given the topics of the questions today, ,f all the investments watching for even more investments. which of those are the most effective? ofeed to know that in terms or cost effective aspect protections in having them occur at the border.

>> infrastructure and personnel along the border. the department has been challenged to be able to fortify contributions border security. we recommend they conduct a cost-effective assessment to be able to assess the tactical infrastructure that they have made a border security. our review of the new technology on the southwest border. they identified the benefit and magic's for assessing implementation of the plan and the technology going forward. the question has a key take away. >> i am hearing that from my colleagues, while we know we

need to do that, we don't have that concrete information. given the unprecedented investment, i am concerned about whether there are making the difference that we need. should our next set of fines, assuming they move forward, be contingent upon those assessments? and you can only draw down if you demonstrate it will be a cost-effective investment that also brings about the real results. policy calleda for congress. the investments made for the border security efforts. >> if we don't do that, the reality is that we make sure we

have secure borders that we are using in other places. if we don't do it in a contingent effective manner, regardless of the policy decisions, we will not have an effective environment for protecting and securing the border making sure that trade will traveland we back and forth across the buter, not minimize excepted and a productive and a safe manner. today, ithe testimony am concerned that we don't have that information readily available to us. it minimizes efforts that we make in congress. now anybody can answer. no takers?

nosh i think we're working very hard to identify risks. horse, but i dead think it is helping us identify areas that need additional resources, basically trying to take more of a business transformational type of love and our processes and how we do business. >> the chairman recognizes the gentle lady from wyoming. >> to the previous comment by the gentle lady from new mexico, there and lies the problem. trying to get us to do comprehensive immigration reform at a time when we cannot assure our constituents, the people we work for, that the

border is secure, it is a non- starter. i hear that from all aspects, from all of my constituents. i cannot tell them that we have accomplished is that one, secure the border. especially those from non-border states, though they have put on us. they have been telling us for years to secure the border first, and we will talk about comprehensive immigration reform. will is a bill that comprehensively reform immigration.

the house. pass vote for that will allow us to have a robust conversation about comprehensive immigration reform. we have not secure the border. asked metuents have this repeatedly. expensive the least and most effective way to secure the border in land-to-land border crossings? mr. fisher, is that true? >> in some locations, yes. >> do we have a fence in every location where that is true? >> anywhere that you have a fence, predominantly you put in place is because you have identified it as high risk

attributable to the illegal crossings. just having defense does not guarantee border security. >> adding 700 miles of fence and 20,000 troops on our border to defend our borders. if you were me, you go home every weekend, and they are telling you to secure the border, would you vote for the amendment? >> in similar circumstances, my wife will ask a the same question and we have an interesting discussion about that. not what would you tell your

wife and your child. >> it is a very important issue. >> let me ask you. the corker amendment. would you vote for that amendment? >> i cannot answer that. i tell them we are doing the best we can with what we have. >> is our southern borders secure? >> we do not control the border. >> mr. murphy, is our southern border control? >> i think we are working to that end. >> if i go home for the weekend can i tell mike and it's you and? -- tell my constituents?

what would you say? >> we are doing our best. >> for certain sections the border is secure. >> can you show us where it is not the cure? >> in some locations. >> can you advise us? can you help us make it secure? >> we are in the process. >> when will that he completed? >> in the next few months. >> are you going to share it with us? >> it would be my intent, but it is not my call. >> the chair recognizes the gentlelady from illinois. >> i have another question about data. data,rder control collect and they review this data.

border crosses and found that number had declined. they paid roughly the same picture. what else do you think they tell us? ,> the recidivism we look at and it found the recidivism decreased by six percent during .hat time they looked at known it illegal entrants apprehended more than once. it is not exactly the same. they are looking at numbers that have been apprehended more than once. i want to make a comment i

totally understand what we call someone we expect the person to be here and to answer our questions, but it is my understanding the gentle man has offered to sit down with staff. want to make sure we give him a little bit of credit for that. he has offered to sit down with staff. thank you. chair recognizes the gentleman from florida. >> thank you, mr. chairman. let's go back to what is used for entry at the border. either of you gentlemen, are you familiar with the technical boards that approved the

credentials for crossing the border? am not, no. >> mr. murphy? >> no, sir. >> this is why it is so difficult to conduct this hearing without someone responsible who can answer these questions. we have at least five documents i cited. the act in commissioner and the chief -- and you know mr. fisher, those documents can be for globalemselves entry?

.> i do not know that that is not my area of expertise. you should know which .ocuments can be used i am not able to question whether or not there is any coordination in the development of those documents and what they contain, the capability they contain. how many individuals were apprehended last year? maybe you have already told us. , butdo not have the number .e arrested 410,000 >> you removed 410,000 back to their original point of entry

or whatever country they came from? >> yes, sir. >> how many are incarcerated in the united states at any time? will that be all of them? is there a population of illegals in our prisons? >> of those we removed, 225 are convicted criminals. 225. >> 225000. they were convicted criminals. >> do you detain those convict did criminals? >> yes. we have four priorities. orderal security, recent entrants. >> do we also pay for their legal costs?

?o you have any idea are they read their rights? >> if they are convicted of a crime, they do their time in whatever a facility. while to process them they are still in custody so we do not incur additional costs. >> are they subject to an additional counsel, or they can get their own counsel? >> they can get their own counsel. >> any ideas of the cost of incarcerating these individuals? >> in our custody or the custody of law enforcement? >> an estimate on the cost of incarceration. >> 34,000 beds a year, and those turn around quickly.

1.7 billion. >> a number of customs and border control people were killed in the last decade. have most of the culprits been apprehended? >> over the last few years there have been arrests of individuals where there was enough evidence to warrant their arrest. it was attributed to violence against order patrol agents and sometimes killing of order control agents. the remember working with , andn administration reagan handled it by closing the but we for a while,

still have people who have not been apprehended who have killed our agents. >> that is true. >> that is a sad commentary. i think we need to do everything possible to target those individuals. it might be a good use of drones to take them out when you kill border patrol personnel of the united states. remainder ofthe my time. >> did you have questions? though if the staff could send a letter, i have asked for twice as much. the contract,ded and one piece of equipment cost twice as much. it is nice to divide the

contract, but i do not care about that. i want to find out about the mobile surveillance equipment, the acquisition of the cost of equipment, a difference in any capability and what would justify paying twice as much for the same thing, and we will -- meetinganing with the chair of the subcommittee. other than that, i appreciate the courtesy. part ofestified earlier the border is secure and others are not. what part of the border is insecure? >> these are areas where we generally do not have access. we have very little or nonexistent technology.

it is only those areas where intelligence leads us to believe criminal organizations may be as avoiding those areas. that is what i mean that the border is more secure than others. >> what percentage? to give aifficult percentage. >> what areas? >> all across the southwest border there are sections considered secure and sections that are less secure. there is a five-mile stretch in san diego. you may have visited on one of your recent tours. that is what we need the entire

southwest border to look like. we have had all weather roads. there is a secondary fence. we have razor wire across that. sensors. hundreds of we have surveillance, and border patrol agents routinely deploy that. the lastso look over 10 years, that area is the most exploited. isi am looking at which area the least secure? notyou are saying it is the as secure. >> that is an interesting point.

either oran proposition. it is the state of the border at any time. any section we say is secure is potentially being exploited. >> you said part of the border is less secure. >> that's correct. >> so at certain times all the border is secure and at certain times it is secure? i would like to help you fix the border and make sure it is secure 100% of the time, but you are telling me part of the border is not secure. what geographical area is unsecure? >> we are talking about arizona. there is one particular area because we have less security in that area than we do in other areas. >> yet a map.

i would like to see a map. soldier.ld i want to know that i have got my perimeter.ect americans want to go to sleep at night knowing their perimeter is secure. i want to know what part is the weakest and what part is the strongest and what we can do to fix it. >> understandable. i was just reading a blog. what does she mean by the term reverse escort? >> i can answer that. the activity has spiked.

we have seen an increase in arrests. we have a congressionally mandated cap on overtime. -- arrestse rest are under 18. we are only allowed to detain them 72 hours. with the surge of juvenile arrest, we are supposed to turn them over to dhhs. we contact them and say we have a juvenile. where do we take them. we have to deliver them. they were doing so many escorts.

for ant is the same officer to go from san antonio to detroit. what we are asking the other , we are having a detroit officer flight to san them to detroit. it is the same cost. it is a way to deal with a mandate of overtime we can pay our officers. immigrationsaying officers are dropping them off in sanctuaries awaiting amnesty. >> that is not accurate. officers turn them over to health and human services. to makee contracts sure he gets medical and food and until he gets a hearing. you would have to talk to health

and human services who they takenct with, but that is out of context. >> why would you fly a juvenile from texas or new mexico to to await trial? >> because health and human services ran out of bed in texas. juveniles are arrested in all 50 states. health and human services tell us, this is where we are going to take this child. here is where you bring them. thank you. i appreciate your clarifying. this catch and release inc., i

toured the detention facility. sonderstand you only have much bed space. 1500 something. approximately. >> if all those beds are filled and you have 30 you just caught, where do they go? overburdeningally the budget. ande are completely full as aliens come into custody, we make a determination. -- maybe he has

a job in an enforcement. can we put him in alternative form and make that bed available for the priority case? the priority cases are criminals, those that threaten national security. we increased the beds in texas to make sure we can't attain , becauserder crossers i think that is an important strategy. border patrold agents tell me they get a message the beds are full, and they do not respond to, they do not make a big effort capturing 26. they may be only captured three or four. is that accurate? >> we detain all recent order and trends. ts.border entrance

we released people every day like every jail does. maybe we cannot get a travel document. we cannot get a travel document to somalia. we have a supreme court decision that we can only detain someone for six months. we must release them. to detain a priority those aliens, but there are times there is an unaccompanied juvenile, and we can release them to our custody. and get there interview they will beive, on bond. we release aliens all the time on bond if they meet the bond by the judge. are thend out they

sole caregiver for a child and that person is not in danger, he would serve better in an alternate form of detention. >> we have heard of significant increases in other than mexicans crossing our southwest order. tweeted that nine romanians were apprehended crossing the southwest border during this recent trip, and news outlets are reporting an increase in indian nationals, more than 1000 crossing into that state. what other countries are they coming from? a big majority now is guatemala and el salvador. we were bringing so many into we got way over 37,000. i instruct them to meet and start a pilot program.

usually they are in detention for 10 or 20 days before a government official from guatemala would interview them. it took 20 days, so the beds are backing up. i issued instruction to start a program with the agreement of the government. they are doing a pilot program within 24 hours. they are issued a travel document within 24 hours. in the last two weeks we removed over 5000 to their country to these pilot row grams. that's got the bit level down. down. level they are actually surrendering themselves at a port of entry and claiming fear. they will arrange an interview and tries to make that did termination is the fear .redible

if they make that determination that he has a fear of returning to his homeland, they are eligible for release under bond or other supervisor bull release. >> at least nine romanians, it is my understanding they went to trial and never showed that cup. >> -- back up. >> we are dealing with cis. year we removed aliens from over 150 countries, so we see them in every country on the planet. >> walk me through this. they go before a judge? mexican nationals we can return them pretty quickly.

otms have to be approved by officials from their country to a certain they are in fact a citizen of water mullah. -- water mullah. guatemalah. that is the process. we arrest somebody. we set them up for an immigration hearing. many show up after you release them? -- >> it depends. the show about 80% at hearing. what the border patrol is doing is those arrested crossing the border have expedited removal.

is a removal order in itself, so they do not have to see the judge. we get a quick interview with the government. they issue a document to remove them. if we arrest them in the interior we cannot process them. we have to get an immigration judge. otms dopercentage of you have? do you have an average? at the time we had approximately 34,000 in custody. we had approximately 7000 or eight house and. 8000. >> the rest are citizens?

atd wear an ankle bracelet. they could be doing a bit check at the residence. we have about 80% for alternative detention. >> that means 20% did not appear? how many? 10,000? 400,000 people you process? >> we had 475,000 last year. fighting their cases. an order ofe removal. and repeal forward once again. plus. have 400 allison

20% of that is 80,000 people. >> our current backlog has .eople that cannot be removed count. at the latest >> 11 million illegal in this country. someone told me it is closer to 20 million. someone told me it was closer to 30. think what ice i is doing is smart and affect this enforcement. -- and effective. is it going to be the first 400,000 we encounter? i think focusing on those that threaten national security, i

like to think we can decide who those 400 allison are going to be. allison are going to be. let's decide who they are going to be. let's make community safety an important factor. last year. removed that is a significant impact. the recidivism rate, how many crimes did we prevent? half of the 400. >> 55%. were eitherthe 96% fugitives, those ordered removed and reentered. those border entrance remain a priority for us because we need

to secure the border. >> a second illegal entry is a felony. >> if we catch them they can be prosecuted for a felony. you agree with other law enforcement professionals who are concerned the rise in otms corresponds with the rise of smuggling coming out of mexico? think a vast majority are being smuggled by organizations operating out of mexico. >> i have one last question. did you have one? they gave me eloi a daily report. it was a sheet -- of paper with all andcountries in the world,

it had a little space. every day they would write down the number held at the facility in that space. is that a daily report? >> i am familiar with that. we track where they are from through an electronic database. all the countries that were represented in that facility, and knowing we do not capture 100%, but the one thing that offered me the most, -- that bothered me the most, it was the number one compared to ask dennis dan. -- to and. -- afghanistan.

if we do not capture everyone, how many are from that particular country? that is a concern to me. i guess that is why i a awake at night when i think about this ordeborder. dry the g2ibed as us secure borders. -- as is ravaging the cure borders -- strategy to secure borders. >> i would describe those who seek to hurt this country. those are who we target. >> what does that mean? had to do withn how we of value eight threat along the border -- how we eat threat -- we evaluate

along the border. there was one person from dan. it makes sense. afghanistanone from va sneaking into our country? you said the border is not to secure and someone wants to do us harm. it is my job to protect this one by, the number aridity, and you are telling me our border is not secure, and i would like to know what you think the biggest threat is.

can you give me a percentage? >> i share the same responsibility as you. upport the same oath to secure the constitution. the threat that keeps me up as well is those individuals that are potential terrorist seeking entry into this country. we identify what the requirements are to minimize the likelihood they are inclined to country. this entr i cannot give you certain that meant and percentages. . can give you an example generally do not have capability.

we see the vast majority of individuals seeking entry are within those areas thomas a is in the rioa grande valley. one of the things we have done is push our border back. we know who is coming. what is coming from the cargo. we get that entry in advance. radiation detection devices. boarding 240 200 people in 2012.

bordernt 100 are sent security, and we do not have it. >> i have carried a badge and a gun for 29 years. i care about this country. i think the biggest threat is those who want to come to this country to do harm. a priority is investigations of a national security nature. the safety of is the country. i have in doing this a long time. there was a time when we would just go arrest aliens.

i am enforcing immigration law. thise same time i arrest person who is here illegally but has not committed a crime there is a child editor -- predator walking around. securitying communities across the country we have a virtual presence in every jail. if they get arrested we will find out about that alien and take action and remove them in the country. i prioritizing on a national security threat or a threat to public the thomas it makes -- public safety, it makes sense to me. let's make that 400,000 count. i have been doing this for 20 years.

border patrol has identified threats to border security from terrorism, drug smuggling, and illegal migration. order patrol is working on developing risk assessment thoseto help assess what risks are and help the identification of resources in process.s >> i would like to thank all our guest's. the committee stands adjourned. moments, i hearing on how healthcare is being affected by mobile medical apps for smartphones. in an hour and a half the senate debate leading to passage of an immigration bill, and after that i hearing on border security.

>> on the next washington journal, representatives collins, a member of the judiciary and foreign affairs committee will take questions about the supreme court decisions, the u.s. role in serious, and immigration policy. we will continue the discussion of immigration policy with of illinois. also the chairman of the hispanic rock is immigration task force. washington journal is live on c- span every day at 7 a.m. eastern. >> this sunday, american history tv commemorates the 150th anniversary of the apple of gettys erg. -- gettys -- the battle of gettysburg. >> the main figure represents the chieftain of the delaware tribe who became the symbol of

the tammany hall in new york city. they would participate in a charge. they lost at least 15 men killed. this monument was american from in its proportions and its gallantry. theepresents the best nation has to offer. >> the 100th anniversary -- 150th anniversary of the battle of gettysburg. 5:30 we will take your calls and tweets for the author of gods and generals. 8:00, the commemorative ceremony with the keynote speaker followed by a todlelight procession

arlington national cemetery. we will and with peter carmichael taking your calls and tweets. post questions two facebook. >> now i hearing on how healthcare is eating affected by mobile medical apps on smartphones. hour and a half seeing how the systems work. i called the meeting to order. i want to welcome our witnesses. i think this is going to be a fun hearing. learnwe are meeting to more about american small businesses and how they are changing healthcare. acording to a report, majority of adults now own smartphones.

apps seem to be thriving. globalve found that revenue exceeded $20 billion last year. apps that can help individuals monitor their health are becoming more prevalent. 78% of top developers are small businesses. entrepreneurs have high and aired them for purposes like reading a patient's digital images. these are groundbreaking apps to help empower citizens to make datar decisions, access in real-time time and to monitor patient conditions. readmissiono reduce

and cut the cost of chronic diseases. these products to the public, small businesses have to navigate a complex web of challenges, product , andcing, taxes regulations. we are eager to learn more about these innovations as well as the challenges we face every day. today's format is a little different. each person will be allowed five minutes, but during that time they are going to be demonstrating their apps for us on the screens. have the screens on either side, which will help visually. we appreciate the participation, and we look forward to your testimony. i now yield to the ranking member for her remarks. >> you are right. mobile medical

exciting area of innovation that have tremendous promise for small businesses and healthcare. these applications stand to medicinelly improve in this country, reducing disorganization that cost money and lives. they can make more informed decisions wherever they are, and these can cut through the fog of instructions on prescription medication ,chedules, provided reminders and helping people to stay on track. this is not some cool looking new toy. medical errors kill as many as 98 thousand people a year,

including over 700,000 from medication. that is more than die from car accidents, breast cancer, or age. reading that information and put it -- breast cancer, or aids. wringing that information together could help avoid deadly errors. i am curious about how this can help the elderly, who have a hard time sorting through their medication without help. anyone who has ever taken care of someone with a chronic disease or even recovering from a serious illness, you know how difficult that can be and an application that provides reminders can be. to be sure these advances do not leave behind those who may not be able to afford a smart phone on top of all those

delivering less costly, more efficient care, this is a field where small business can really lead the way. i think that is a really exciting and really american prospect. remakingl businesses our world with innovation and ingenuity. it is estimated mobile technology will be valued at $25 500ion and account for thousand jobs. the development of mobile apps have increased with 27,000 unique apps on the market and about 500 new ones launched every month, so when you say, is there an app for that, there will be. developers are critical. last year the mobile health are sought investments reach more and in 2013 ison

expected to exceed one billion. dependent on the regulatory front. it is important to understand how they bring the apps to the market and ensure they do not hinder growth, which is why i am glad you are holding this hearing today, and we want to be part of the solution. >> if subcommittee members have an opening statement prepared, i will ask they submit those for the record. a moment.ke to take you each have five minutes to deliver your testimony. the light will start out green. when you have one minute remaining the light will turn yellow, and then it will turn red at the end of your five minutes. our first witness is alan foretell -- portella.

officerief executive for air strip technology. he has more than 25 years of experience bringing solutions to market. they allow them to access patient data anytime, anywhere. this was the first app approved by the fda for the app store. five minutes to present your testimony. we look forward to the demonstration. >> think you. it is an honor to be here at this historic time. model, wek at the are looking at an approach of chronic disease management,\. 360 million americans suffer at least one chronic disease.

we have to figure out a way to manage those patients. we have a patient population that is increasing by the millions under the affordable care act, so now the data has to be delivered on mobile devices so they can make informed rather than go to their computers to get that data. changed. we have to make sure mobility becomes a key element. products are medical devices and mobility solutions. recently we received certification for security. viewed as never barriers to entry for us.

.hese are what make us unique five one out of every babies in the u.s. are monitored eye doctors that are these babies before they are foreign, and we have documented cases of high risk pregnancies that those babies would not be alive today if it was not for monitoring. we also have a number of patients with heart disease. it takes about 90 minutes for a attack toth a heart go to the lab so they can clear the artery for the procedure. the reason it takes 90 minutes is they are not there at all times. they are the ones that need to make the diagnosis to approve

the procedure. the cardiologist can actually whens the data immediately the patient is in the ambulance, so they can make a decision before the patient comes in, and they can have the coordination team ready to take care of that patient. the time to 30 minutes in some cases. there was someone in new york who was able to go back to work after a blockage. the reality is we are producing that are heart and muscle as a but also prevention better quality of life. physicians are able to monitor patient. andcan look at the patient the laboratory

results, medications, but also you can look at their a where their alerts and patient data. this can be done remotely. to patientsg this in underserved communities. we are also taking chronic diseases such as diabetes and others. today we are not representing large companies but hundreds of thousands of haitians -- patients that are alive because of doctors and nurses using these products. this drove the innovation process.

dod made our patient data secure. together we improve quality of care. to urge for the fda to so also therece is more security attached to lack of guidance is encouraging medical device manufacturers to offer inferior solutions to the customers without top or clearance, which is hurting us as a small business, but it is also hurting you and i asked patient, -- as are part ofo we the companies paying the medical device tax introduced as

part of the affordable care act when those companies are not paying for the app on the mobile device. thank you. >> i am sure we will have some questions. our next witness is the chief executive officer from grand rapids, michigan. he was western michigan's entrepreneur of the year in 2004 and received his bachelor 's degree in computer science the university of michigan. this is designed to improve health outcomes and lower cost by motive by it -- motivating patients to adhere to schedules. five minutes to present your testimony and demonstrate your application. , and i the ceo appreciate the opportunity to address you. ideal med is a michigan based

company with a focus on chronic disease. i am also here with a trade association that insists -- assistant building solutions. the untamed frontier of healthcare with a trillion dollar a year impact on our health care economy. preventedis can be if individuals effectively manage their health on a daily basis. ofengage citizens in effect self-medication. our goal is to make the managing of health of breeze. represents a new application. it does not dispense medical advice. it inspires the patient to take control of their own health. this is a winning combination.

we sell directly to insurers. they deploy to the subset of the population with chronic conditions. if you will now look at the screen, you can see the version citizen hypothetical with severe asthma would use. this allows him to quickly record his dose. if he misses a dose, his mother insurers they receive the dose. record symptoms and custom triggers that fit his life. his neighbors long-haired cat can induce asthma attacks. this tracking allows him to

measure how it affects his world. as he successfully completes each day of medication he is awarded digital creatures. these are incentives the child earns overtime. alex can also earn tailored family incentives such as a visit to the park. these are based on motivational psychology. positive engagement. alex is not alone. they can monitor his daily interactions as well as schedules and view trends. they provide confidence regarding his asthma. it provides peace of mind. on the platform you have seen there worse cap who questioned -- there were skeptics who

questioned this. for wireless connectivity would be too restricting. we have carried out numerous deployments that suggest concerns were unfounded. here you can see at each of these trials emergency room visits noticeably declined. forave expanded our aim over six months with a sustained engagement rate of over 80%. they have similar affirming numbers. we continue to expand our portfolio to other conditions, including diabetes and more. three years ago with the determination to make a difference. we have blossomed from a startup the booming business with first skill sets.

our original product was a slave device that slipped on an inhaler to provide medication reminders. it became clear they were rapidly providing approaches. be prohibitive, so we shifted strategy, leveraged insights, and then mobile-based product was worn. our success has been shaped by our ability to turn assumptions upside down and to empower individuals to steward their health with connectedness. we look to a future of touching lives and peer at head to appreciate mobile health guidelines. governance. these are historic times of change in american healthcare. ofare proud to be an engine

progress in a new era. at this time we have the introduction of her next witness. >> it is my pleasure to introduce dr. chris burrow. he is the director of medical affairs. , women-owned business. the four that he was the executive and founder of two companies. the industry association is dedicated to meeting the needs of developers. welcome. >> thank you for the

opportunity to appear before you today. as you heard, it is a small business in delmar, california. we are a member of the it has been a pioneer in mobile technology. have developed multiple applications for consumers to interact in innovative ways. despite progress the last few years, essential health information is not readily accessible. by enabling patients to access their own health information at the point of care within an easy-to-use mobile application, many theis free of challenges encountered by the current systems and health

information exchange initiative. our technology is based on the federal blue button initiative. i have the icon right here on my lapel. the idea is simple. it gives patients access to their own health information using an easy to identify symbol that could be adopted and used by anyone holding valuable patients and data. thetrix recognizes transformative potential of blue button data and built on the efforts by creating the blue button app for ios devices and android devices. it has easy and reliable access as maintained by both public and private maintainers. or medicare, it transforms the beneficiary of level currently produced by the blue button record into a user-friendly health record that can be accessed on a mobile device and

exchanged by patients and providers at the point of care. this comprehensive health record can be viewed directly on a smartphone or tablet. it holds the patient's key health information such as problems, medications, and a detailed history of all of their healthcare encounters, including inpatient and outpatient visits, labs and procedures. i will demonstrate our technology. on the screen is my ipad. i will launch the blue button app. the first thing i have to do is enter a password. it is a password-protected app. that way if i lose my iphone, no one else can get into it. in order to download the medicare record, the only thing a patient has to do is go to my medicare.gov and fill out a brief questionnaire and get a

username and password. ,nce they have acquired that they simply enter in the username and the password here into the app. they say that. now they are ready to download the record. all they have to do is hit that download record. here's the record. it is laid out beautifully. we have the diagnoses and showing the conditions that the patient has. the patient can do a quick .ookup you can also see all of the medications. that aree medications paid for under part d. .hat is quite transformative for any medicine, you can do a easy lookup for drug information. that will give you basic information. it comes from the national library of medicine's.

it tells you how to take the drug and what to watch out for and any side effects. here you can check them. basically you have your whole medical record under your fingertips wherever you want it. when you see your physician, we have a companion note. you could push the record over to the device. qr code.te a the physician can scan your smartphone with this code. the record is now shown on the positions device. all that the position needs is an ipad and our technology. everything the patient has entered will be shown. issue is whether the patient is or isn't taking that medication -- it shows whether the patient is or isn't taking that medication.

well, my time is up. i'm delighted to have been here. i want to say thank you to everyone. we are trying to get the word out. patient education is key. provider education is key. thank you. >> thank you, dr. burrow. our next witness is a doctoral candidate and systems engineering at the university in buffalo new york. she owns a bachelors degree in science and engineering for purdue and a masters degree degree in business administration from the university of buffalo. she and her colleagues are joining her today. welcome. second prize and only electric hospital competition for their app. it produces patient and caregiver choice.

it supports timely communication between the hospital and community care teams. reduced,readmission is it saves the society money. welcome. five minutes to present your testimony. distinguished members, thank you for an invitation to participate in today's hearing. i'm honored to present a talented team. hownt to briefly discuss our group of young entrepreneurs are translating our individual health care and technology research into a global solution that will make hospital discharge -- discharge more efficient. it is a critical step. inherent complexity of existing rss is often resulting in undesirable outcomes for the patient and the health care system. fivelly, nearly one in are readmitted to a hospital

within 30 days of their initial discharge. despite recent efforts to make improvements in these areas, readmission rates has been -- in the competition, it provided the catalyst for our group to develop a better solution for the discharge planning. it will fundamentally redefine the process. solutions like ours can have a significant impact on healthcare in the u.s. they can improve continuity of care. it will improve -- , there is ay stages difficult road ahead. there is difficulty and obtaining funding and support for our product. there are also issues such as interoperability. improving that can ensure that there can be a solution that estimates the care the patients.

-- best serves the care of the patients. we can facilitate communications among patients and their family and their informal caregivers and living continuity of care with immunity-based providers. i will give you a brief overview of our app. there are some unique teachers it provides. -- features it provides. this is demonstrated with an example of an eight-year-old patient hospitalized for congestive heart failure. there is an informal caregiver to help with the recovery. the discharge roadmap is designed to facilitate the discharge process, allowing you to begin much earlier. ,sing the applet, john, jane and the doctor can be assured that everything is adequately considered in the process. a plan is aether

difficult undertaking. using a systematic roach and using the tools in the app -- using a systematic approach and using the tools in the app, it can be categorized into three main functionalities. education, assessment, and referral. john would experience the educational component. he could review several short modules explaining his diagnosis. is availablerial to jane so she can learn the best ways to assist her father in improving his care. as john completes progress in this area, the results of his -- providedrovides for him and his doctor. after learning about the diagnosis, john and jane can both assess what his abilities are to manage his care post hospitalization.

john stopped her will also look at their own assignment and will give a prioritized summary of the results of the assessment. it will allow them to have areas where there is inconsistency and answers. -- in answers. once they determine the needs, such as home care, there is evidence of results of what would happen if you follow through with those suggestions. john and jane can also review local service providers and indicate their preferences as to who they would prefer the peripherals. -- preferences. it isn't important to know what

her schedule and constraints are -- it is important to know what her schedule and constraints are. finally, a referral feature shows continued he of care -- continuity of care. combined, we believe education, assessment, and referral components are redefining the discharge process. we are honored to have shared them with you today. thank you. >> thank you one and all. as we move forward with behnology, i think we will relying more and more on entrepreneurs to come up with solutions for a variety of reasons and in some cases to make money and in other cases to pursue your continued education. in each of your cases, you have given us a great look at the merits of entrepreneurs and technology and where we might go and where we are going.

all of the snow health care costs are the number one .oncern can individuals afford it? they are facing those issues now as we move forward into a new world. anything that we can do to reduce the overall costs, i think the solution is starting to take control of their own lives. the old model was if you had insurance, you went to the doctor. you did not know exactly what it cost and seven else pay for it and you went home. today it is a very different model. i think what you are showing us is the next stage of the patient taking control. we have got an aging population. the baby boomers of which i am one, many of us retiring each day and the store you are sharing of an 80-year-old man

with his daughter helping out -- i want to know where their son was. [laughter] it is always the daughter. that is the world we live in. parents are living longer because of advances, but in many cases there is some kind of chronic medication. we are always worried about readmissions to hospital. we do notuestion -- have all of the regulations out -- but what you have done -- why don't we start with mr. burrow. yourentioned if you lose cell phone, someone will not be able to get into your information. i know we are all concerned about privacy and who has access to our medical information. maybe you can explain what you are doing. thank you.

it is a very important question. designed these apps is that you as the patient should be able to access your own records. to acquire the credentials do so from the data holder. for example, medicare. you would go to the medicare website and comply with the requirements of that data holder. once you have done that, as you do in banking and in other aspects, you acquire a username and password. it is secured and encrypted. the download takes place in a secure fashion. the record once it is on your phone, it is encrypted and stored there. if you lose your phone, the only data that could be acquired maliciously would be a file of encrypted 1's and 0's. it is virtually impossible to

break. your data is secure. losing a phone would not be a problem. no one would have the password to get in. >> thank you. ,> well, as i mentioned before we have received the .ertification for security it is our position as were going through the process that we clearly recognize the risk for cyber attacks out there that are beyond what private citizens would have seen. basically the way the dod handles the security with the certification is that they have a number of engineers looking for hackers on a regular asis. every time they find them -- on a regular basis.

what we need to do as vendors is immediately identified how we are going to mitigate those vulnerabilities. in some cases they are category ones. every month there are new vulnerabilities that could brink -- break into the patient data. at some point we get closer to a medical device and eventually managing those devices. if you are vulnerable to standardthe fcc primarily direct the security to the application level, but they do not did on the operating system level so much. the dod requirement prevents hackers from coming. what i recommend is that we look at what the dod is doing

and bring in some of that certification process into the air. >> thank you. -- into the private sector. >> thank you. i'm assuming that would apply not just to kids, but how does your app manage privacy? >> the privacy and protection is something we take very seriously. we have an approach that is similar to those with the encryption at the technology level. also above and beyond that, the people process it is an the application and is an important element. the data is self-reported data. it can monitor their data.

they would have to consent to sharing the data in that fashion. it would need the people's approval and the technology protection. >> thank you. handle theur app privacy issues? we are still the development process. >> we have no official solution yet, but it is definitely a concern from the start of perspective. there are standards we need to ascertain to and navigate that standard system and how to determine the proper solution. it is certainly one of those barriers that we need to overcome and understand better. otherelcome any questions. at this point, i will yield to discussion. .> thank you, mr. chairman you touched on interoperability. i was listening to everyone's presentations. it was all extremely interesting and exciting.

it is where we need to be in terms of quality healthcare. who hasy the doctor been treating the patient for a kidney problem would have to be able to talk to the cardiologist who is treating the -- to all theand witnesses, is this a problem, interoperability? what do it need do in congress to help with the interoperability of all of these applications in healthcare? , what we view on this is .hat interoperability is key we would need to talk with everybody. there are several different types of standards. no unified or agreed-upon standard of how these different

technologies can communicate with each other. we see the communication as enabling. if we can do that, we can eliminate the need for redundant testing. really what we are looking for is as to what is the best approach. doing it a different solution for each software or could there be a unified agreement that we could communicate via one method? >> thank you. >> i do have about 20 years experience in this area of interoperability. it is a huge problem. we are not lacking the standards. the standards need to be enforced. we need to protect the data and preserve some of the advantages that they have.

i'm talking primarily about the large vendors. yet to look at front and and backend. 10 yearsand will take .- backend will take 10 years we're dealing dealing with at the suit of care all the time .nd trying to capture the data subset of very small .he data

the real data you'd have to get from interfacing to each of those vendors and there are different ways of doing it. all of us are trying to comply .ith that we are in a new world. ini would agree with him regards to the standards that are out there. the mobile application vendors can be integrated if the other -- it is a flexible .ilting -- a building block

there are multiple players and systems that could ensure the data that they build a flexible piece. >> thank you for the question. our national strategy is built on three different approaches. there's a system and system exchange. we have heard a little bit about that. , the is this other idea idea that everyone has access to a medical record that they can carry, if you will, on their mobile device. that will help solve the

interoperability problem that is out there. on the come together private and government side for standards that we believe will be important going forward to mediate the patient model. you can get the data easily. every citizen should have the ability to get their data. >> thank you. i think that is something we should look at some more. interoperability is key. i look that in many areas. i have more, but i will save it

for the next round. >> we would like to recognize the gentleman from missouri for five minutes. >> thank you. i guess this means i should put my phone away. .hank you for being here today last week i was disappointed and frustrated by the lack of information of the testimony of the witnesses. i admire what you are doing. i hope that you keep it up. it will make this a better world. very quickly, what regulations are in ways that you have to deal with everyday in regards to barriers that are put in front of you that you you have to overcome that we can have an impact on?

what do you see as some problems? again, i think i am one of those where the vendors really adhere to the proposed regulation. when it comes to saving lives, when it comes to moving into moving outside the four walls of the hospital, we want more and quality and security. the reality is we deal with it on a day-to-day basis. we submit new products and enhancements to the existing ones. we feel that process is improving significantly. we want to make sure that right now we are actively complying with the requirements that are not out there yet.

we would like the fda to recognize what we're trying to to do as a leader in the industry. we want to be able to go across the board and really regulate so everyone has to comply. >> you guys are on the cutting- edge. >> we understand the regulations such as hip and the protection of privacy. hippa regulations such as and the protection of privacy. we look forward to those government since and the clarity. we have anticipated and speculated what it might be. we have tried to be proactive

and build a solution that would align well with the fda guidelines. we welcome those guidelines. >> dr. burrow. >> i think the ones that would affect us the most is hippa. one timeption with the key where you push the record to doctor, theo the metrics has no way of touching your data. you download the data and you own it. metrics are not part of it. we do not store it. that is the one we are thinking most about. approach will be fox a bowl and will ensure patient safety.

right now, i'm not a regulatory expert. i do not have anything additional to add to the comments. from the very early stages, certainly navigating that regulatory system and understanding what your options are and how you need to comply, that is really the point we are at. ofneed the right levels security to comply with the regulations. >> very good. 30 seconds. what youhe success of do. that will be important. is there a measure meant that you have able to establish? that there a measurement you have been able to establish?

>> yes. sorry. ,efinitely in today's economy no vendor can bring their systems to the market without a of clinical and financial. we evaluate the value at every step of the where else the customers would go away. if we took the cardiac patient that i explained before, you they come in and they do not need to activate it. you save it $7,500 and you reduce the length of stay in the icu icu because better quality in your heart muscles mean less time. and then, also, that is about