and so my review said, this was a great book lurking in the 700 pages. but some needs to carve it out. and he died short shortly there after and oxford turned to me and said, how would you like to be the guy to carve it out. that's how i got involve in this project. >> how much did you have to write yourself? >> about 20% of the book. he had 250,000 words. my job, all they wanted was 150,000. i boiled it down to 120,000 of his words and added 30,000 of my own words as well as, what, 1400 footnotes and extensive bibliography and, you know, i knew what i was getting into for three years down the road. and, indeed, it's been every bit as challenging as i thought it would be. great fun and very satisfying. >> give us a specific on something that you thought had to be changed?

>> overall, writer for 30 years for "time" magazine. he had kind of a "time" magazine style. some inverted sentences. things that really didn't ring terribly well in a general book of this nature. so throughout, i've been out -- throughout the book, i went and kind of changed that a bit. and other than that, it was really the major change was just boiling it down and then adding those cursed quick notes. >> you acquired in 2009, how long did you work on the book? >> about three years. >> going to show you video. out of context. out of the chronology of the book. but it shows some oratory of a couple of famous senators. the first is going to be huey long. before we show the video, when was huey long in the senate and what impact did he have? >> he had a huge impact on the senate. in the senate for a short period

of time, from the early 1930s until he was assassinated in 1935. but he, you know, decided that he was going to use the filibuster as a -- as a major legislative tool. he did it almost like no one before him had done it. >> the video is going to be 1935. we're cutting in the middle where he's talking about -- well, everybody will figure it out. let's run this and get your comment on it. [video clip] >> how many men ever went to the barbecue and let one man take off of the table what's intended for 9/10 of the people to eat. the only way you're going to feed them people is go back and make that man come back with the grub that he got no business with. >> how are you going to feed the mouths of the people? what's rockefeller and melon going to do with all of that grub? they can't eat it, they can't wear their clothes, they can't

live in the house. give them a yacht. give them a pal lace. send them to reno and give them a new wife when they want it. that's what they want. >> there's more to that. it's on youtube. >> and people really believe that he had a serious chance of becoming president of the united states. that he was line himself up to run in 1936 in a populist kind of campaign with lots of speeches like we just heard. >> he was assassinated the same year that was done. >> in the state capital in baton rouge. >> what was the issue? >> it basically is a disgruntled constituent who -- there was financial dealings. i don't recall the specifics of it. but he had a lot of enemies, a whole lot of enemies. assassination was on his mind as well as the minds of the staff who tried to protect him.

>> what did the fellow senators think of him? >> not much. there were probably a few that -- that southern senators engaged in some of the same kinds of oratory. but one senator who despited him beyond definition was joseph t. robinson from the neighboring state of arkansas. joe robinson was the majority leader. he's responsible to make the trains run on time. and huey long was the guy standing out there making sure the trains did not run on time until he finished his extended speeches, recipes for pot liquor, oysters, very amusing. but people said, the senate is going to blazes. the senate is not getting anything done. what's going to happen to the senate? this is the new deal. this is trying to clean up after the great depression. we cannot afford the extended oratory. you have to take this man off of his feet.

and somebody did. >> some 40 years later of his son. his son, interestingly enough, was one of those who was opposed to television. >> he was indeed. >> let's watch him 47 years later in the senate. [video clip] >> let me make this clear to you, mr. rose, i'm not in bad favor on anything. i didn't make a deal to anybody. and i don't even know what deal you've made up until now. so that when i find out about i want, it may be something that i can vote for and it may not. >> i understand that. >> and i want to make it clear to you, to everybody here, that i couldn't care less what deal you made with somebody and why he agreed to this and why somebody agreed to that. what concerns me is is this bill good for the country. if it turns out to be a bill to control monopoly, it has to wait its place in line, take its turn. we have ten other monopoly bills out there. >> russell long?

what was the difference between he and his father? >> about 30 years. more moderate. a significant drinking problem earlier in the senate career. one of the best things that happened to him was narrate -- one of his staff members named carolyn -- carolyn long who indeed helped him get his act together and he became an extremely powerful and knowledgeable tactician on the senate floor. >> what changed? >> the method under which people arrive in the senate, the whole campaign procedure in the american senate, the first two

chapters are about trying to answer that question. it -- there were senators, george aiken of vermont comes to mind who as late as the 1960s boasted his campaign expenditures amounted to $147. today it's multiple millions of dollars. they didn't have to worry about spending time with constituents. come to town. go four times a year. this is a long time before high-speed aircraft travel and they could settle in and get to know one another. maybe get to know the family of their colleagues, whether they were republican or democrat, it doesn't really matter. and much slower kind of time for sure.

despite the national crises they had to deal with. >> you mentioned joseph robinson from arkansas. we had video from mark pryor, the senator from arkansas talking about him. and once you -- he's called the, what, fightingest man in the united states senate? let's find out what that means. >> in 1930, he was elected as arkansas's governor but was immediately selected to fill a vacancy in the u.s. senate. robinson held three political roles within the span of two weeks. robinson was the last senator chosen be i the arkansas state legislature before the implementation of the 17th amendment that established a collection of senators. in the senate, robinson took on leadership roles including majority leader following his death in 1937, had dei introduced a resolution authorizing the acceptance of his portrait as a gift to the senate. the portrait was later presented

to the senate by robinson's widow and friends. >> what did it mean about the fightingest man in the senate . >> general demeanor. he was ginn to rages. face would turn scarlet. he would beat his breasts on the senate floor. scream, well. as another senator, you wouldn't want to incur the wrath of joe t. robinson because he did indes earn that moniker. >> talked about when the senate changed because of direct election. what brought on the direct election? what amendment was it? who's behind it? >> it was the 17th amendment to the constitution. the house on a number of occasions throughout the 19th

century passed that amendment, sent it over to the senate, the senate killed them. i think one of the main reasons that southern senators had a strangle hold on the -- on the procedures and floor proceedings, who were very much afraid that if you have direct popular election, you're going to have african-americans voting for senate. and that was something that until the jim crow laws began to really disenfranchise african-americans, that was a concern. after by the term of the 20th century, they weren't quite as worried about it. and then, of course, by the progressive reform movement. the election of 1910 really brought a sea change to the senate. much more open for reform minded members and directly popular senators is one of the constant points for reform. and finally, it got through.

>> what changed, then? >> i should add the main reason it got through, there were a number of rather terrible corruption cases. after it went into effect, one of the points that we make in this book, perennial question, did it make any difference to have direct popular election. we come down on the side, yes, id did make a difference. senators began to act like house members. it's not something that any senator wants to hear. the names they were up scavenging for votes. they had to go out and deal with the people as opposed to if you have a state legislature and

there are 26 members of your state senate, all you need is 14 votes and you can easily pay off and they did, inkleed, in some cases, pay off 14 senators by paying off -- paying off their mortgages in a couple of know tore yous cases. to buy their election. so after the direct election, significantly. 1914 election. every incumbent to seek re-election won. >> can you remember the last senator who served in the u.s. senate who had been selected by the legislature in a state? >> i used to know that. i -- i've forgotten now. if you knew the name -- if you happen to recall the name, i would tell you whether you were right or wrong. >> i do not. that's why i asked you. >> you may have recalled that. but i -- i -- >> did it go into the 40s or 50s?

>> it did indeed. there was a senator from florida who you have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. there are some things that you slip away. explain what senator george smathers' role he played. >> a good friend of john f. ken dip, they're drinking pals. -- john f. kennedy. they each contributed to one another's political education. george smathers is remembered for the campaign against claude pepper. he defeated claude pepper. some thought it was a scandal louse campaign. -- a scurrilous campaign. there's a certain mythology, never tracked that down of george smathers going around giving speeches saying,

george -- clyde pepper has a sister who's a thespian, his brother has a brother that was a home same yen and on and on. brother was a practicing whole book --, say p.m. and on and on. smathers denied all that. he did the oral history at the time that clyde pepper died to set the record straight. as my partner in this book neil mcneil said, he should left that alone. he would have gone down as the greatest wits of all time to come up with a campaign attack. >> neil mcneil who you co-authored this died of what? 2008? >> cancer. >> i believe it was lung cancer. >> what was he like? >> he was large, deeply confidence in his own abilities.

he had the power, and most senators knew this, to put a senator on the cover of "time" magazine. or a house member. and he -- -- he did a book in 1963 called the forge democracy. he had been poking around since 1949. that was a popular become. -- that was a pretty popular book. the question was where is your senate book. that's when we decided he would begin his research. enormously tenacious. hi'd say, i have a question on rules from 1911. i just can't find it. i ransacked all the resources and can you help me with that? generally some will remember that he started a program before that that led to "washington week in review."

did you talk to him about his beginning? himself? >> he did not. >> he was proud of his role along with the society of "time" magazine along with washington week as they called it back in those days. "washington week in review." he did that for 12 years starting in 1967. a well-known face on the circuit. >> talking about l.b.j. talking on the phone from the oval office conversations and see what else they can learn on this. [video clip] >> see what we can do.

>> yeah. because russell is wild and -- >> he's with the doctors, isn't he? >> yeah, yeah. but russell will shift in time. but we can't just come in there because, you know, you've asked and now you're suddenly change without destroying our own position. >> good try, good try. you get over there and call me back on that damn bennett and rogers and i'll go work on your ambassador and your judgeship. you hang those on the wall. if they have to have a canal or whatever they got to have, we'll do it. this is one vote i cannot lose. charlie told every republican if you vote against me, you're out of the republican party, i'll eliminate you. i got about 29 of these damn southerners like bennett and rogers and rogers from my own state. some of them have taken walks for me. some are going off. some will say, hell, i have to get him to give me this canal. so see what they've got to have

and then let's get it. let's get the two votes. >> what do you think? >> classic. absolutely classic. the majority leader of the senate, as he was in the 1950s, or the president of the united states, saying this is one vote i cannot lose. everything else -- >> how many presidents in your experience would make that kind of -- that call? >> hard to think. >> well, barack obama doing this? can you imagine this will give you your bridge or -- >> is that good or bad. >> i suppose. -- it's both. it came withlbj personality. another large man with fire in his eyes. look at you, a junior senator. a chairman of the committee. you know he can shape the rest of your career in the united states senate if he chose to either help or stand in your way.

you paid attention to him. >> did you write the press? this is the line now wanted to expand on -- what does that mean? >> it means that most legislative bodies have upper houses that are only rubber stamps. >> give us an example. >> france. >> canada. >> the lower house passes the substance of legislation. goes to the upper house. maybe they don't likethe upper house kind of reviews it. it. maybe they don't like it. they send it back to the lower house. the lower house said i respect your opinion but we're going to pass it again and then it becomes the law of the land. the italian senate and the united states senate for sure that have absolute veto. >> what's the history of why

that's thought to be the way it should be. >> a constitutional convention in 1787. the major concern -- the house will be elected by the same peopleeligible to vote for the state legislative infections. -- elections. those people can be a little impetuous and their decisions sowe'll need a cooler body to review and slow down and as one senator said in the 19th century, the senate is the place of sober second front. that's what the framers of the constitution had in mind. -- sober second thought. >> edward dirksen. -- everett dirksen. what role in history does he play in the senate? >> well, he's most remembered for making it possible to invoke closure on civil rights legislation. -- cloture. >> what does that mean? >> to shut off debate with the proper amount of votes.

at that point, they needed 67 votes to end debate on this 1964 civil rights act. southern senators were determined not to pass that. and it was edward dirksen who whomanaged toksen gather up enough of the republican colleagues to give them what ended up to be 71 votes to pass. that was huge. it was the first time ever that the senate shut off debate on civil rights legislation. and it was really the beginning of the end of southern filibusters on civil rights. >> did you ever know him? >> i didn't. i saw him -- i saw him in action in the mid 1950s. when i came to visit the senate chamber one time. for many years in the 1970s and 1980s, i served on the board of ethics in the research center in his hometown in illinois. a really state of the art patterned research facility. neil mcneil, the biography of

derksen, that's still considered the best biography of derksen. >> you talk about show horses or workhorses. was he a show horse or workhorse? >> he was both. a little of both. there he feels on the tournament of roses parade, grand marshal 1968. he was cutting record albums using his magnificent voice. i heard ken burns not too long ago at an event here in washington rep respond to a question -- what is your favorite story about the -- capitol. 1980 in congress. there was a story about ladies who came to stalk derksen outside of the door of his republican leaders' office. he said, oh, ladies -- you wish to work with me? what can i say to you? what is it to you.

and one of the ladies said, oh, nothing, senator, we just wanted to hear you talk. hiss deep baritone voice was so theatrical. this is an outdoor theater circuit. very proud of his voice. and was indeed an actor on the senate floor. but also, there's a deeply serious vein. people criticize derksen for being oliogenist. he was too infewsive. the grand old chameleon that he changed his vote, his position rather easily. i tend to think that although there's some of that, this is a man who really knew how to make the senate work the way that lyndon johnson did. >> wish we had video of him talking about the marigold. the marigold to be -- >> the national flower at the same time that margaret chase smith wanted the rose to be the national flower.

so there's wonderful exchanges. >> derksen from an interview with howard k. smith and abc in 1968. see what he sounded like. [video clip] >> do you think that any votes or minds are ever changed on the floor of either house in speech? >> oh, yes. not often, but sometimes. it depends on the nature of the subject matter and obviously on the type of a speech you make. i think it's happened twice to me. once on civil rights. because i dug out that quote from victor hugo allegedly written the night he died in his diary when he said an idea whose time is come is stronger than all of the armies on earth. >> what was the other time. >> this is on a sugar bill. it was late at night. and i prepared for it. and we had full chamber. and i laid into it. and well several members came

down and said, you changed -- are you hearing from your memories. you're not particularly conscious of it yourself. >> that's a key -- that's an excellent question. do votes get changed by oratory on the senate floor. in the scope, we have a chapter on debate. -- in this book, we have a chapter on debate. that's the fundamental organizing question in that chapter. he's right, you know? very, very seldom. but sometimes. >> can you think of one other than the one you mentioned where somebody changed their vote? >> no. no. i don't. but if i knew more about it, i could think of one. >> i remember being in the chamber years ago when they had a vote back on -- excuse me, about 1970. on the abn, whether or not they have an antiballistic missile system. the guy that stood up and made the most dramatic speech was a guy named john pastori. when the world stood still and

everyone held our breath and there stood john f. kennedy ten feet tall. [video clip] ten feet tall, that determined, courageous, and strong, and, for the first time, for the first time, we saw nikita khrushchev take up his marbles and go home.

[applause] >> john pastore, rhode island democrat. didn't die until 2003. he was out of there since 1976. as a matter of fact, i think i just saw his wife just died in may or something. but anyway, would it have made any difference -- let me ask you -- how about the or toir today compared to what we've seen with huey long and russell long and john pastore. how did you compare to it? >> much more docile, less row backups for sure. -- less robust for sure. it brings to mind particularly later in the later years they had it on c-span.

this is or toir. -- this is oratory. old school. >> over the years, when were the big increases in the senate? in other words, when it started back at the beginning. how many senators were there? and how did it increase up to 100? >>initially 22 because not all of the states gratified the constitution when it convened on april 6 in the senate in 1789. gradually, of course, through the 19th century, the numbers increased. by 1988, they had 76 members. that began to pose some major procedural problems. all of the people out there seeking attention and whatnot. it was a lot easier than when they were a smaller body. thing then alaska and hawaii. they had to cap the number in 1911 because there just was no

place for people to sit. they had to take the desks out and give everybody a bench to sit on in the house. >> page 149, this is not talked about often. -- to let 49. this occurred when a freshman democratic senator casually allowed a local television station broadcast live a hearing he feels conducting in new orleans as part of an organized crime. -- investigation, estes kefauver. >> and nobody in the senate paid much attention to the request of what he was doing. 1951, the first television set we got in 1951. the first thing we watched were the hearing. people were talk about the candidate of vice president or president because of the power of television and the power of

investigative hearings. >> you say in the book, harry truman didn't like him. xoo' no question of who truman liked or didn't like. when he arrive in the senate, he said, you know, for the first six months, you're going to wander, harry, how you got here. and after that, you're gong to wander how the rest of us got here. truman had a retrospect and there he is holding hearings. >> how much did you write this section? >> that section is mostly neil mcneil. >> he's indifferent to is it station's request, meaning the station in his hometown, home state of tennessee. and preoccupied for managing his

proceedings, he was first unmindful that the hearing was being broadcast. the public's reaction, houf, was spectacular. why then later on if the public's reaction spectacular did the senate fight themselves so much not to put them on to it. russell long,he was a great opponent. >>issue of the senate rules. the fact that the public will lose respect for the senate when there's an endless series of quorum calls. the senate's medium with the opponents of it. we hear that today about the supreme court. we can't have the broadcast of the supreme court deliberations. that's really unfortunate. that was the attitude. >> one of the former colleagues in the house of representatives was the parliamentarian, he mr. johnson,thinks television is bad for the house of representatives.

what's he done for the senate soo. >> that ice a big question. it was inevitable, thanks to certainly members like senator robert bird and howard baker who were receptive to the argumentings. i don't see how you could avoid it. sooner or later, the senate -- the house went on television in 1979. senate waited until 1996. more deliberative body. it took longer. the pressure was so great. the story of the senate walking through the airport. the home state. and the house member, we saw you on television, on c-span. senators becoming so a known member of the state's delegation. that did a lot to push the vote. >> it would have been interesting to see this man, united states senator, majority leader in television. here he is after he retired coming back and giving the speech. i had a suspicion you might have

been in the room for this. >> yes. [video clip] >> by mid 1963, various democratic senators had begun to express publicly their frustration with the lack of apparent progress in advancing the kennedy administration's legislative initiative. other senators were equally determined, less open in their criticism. but they were equally determined that i, as a majority leader, should begin to "knock some heads together." after all, they reasoned, democrats in the senate enjoyed a nearly two-to-one party ratio. with those numbers, anything should be possible under the lash of disciplined leadership. 65 democrats. 35 republicans. think of it, senator daschle.

i use the word "enjoy" loosely. the party seriously undercut that apparent numerical advantage. >> what would he -- he was on television a lot. he feels on "meet the press" and the like. but what would he be like? the difference between him and lyndon johnson? >> well, the -- the the difference is between 1 and 100. he was famous when he appeared on "meet the press" for going through many questions available to him with one-word answers. lyndon johnson would embellish and and go off on a tangent here and there. profoundly different styles. mike mansfield was the product

of lyndon johnson. senators electing a successor to lyndon johnson did not want another lyndon johnson. he wanted someone to make the trains run on time and kind of keep quiet. so mansfield went about -- his philosophy was he lit 100 candles flicker. that was the wailin don johnson not the way lyndon johnsonapproached his concept of the leadership in the senate. before too long, a year or two in his leadership, he began to get criticism from some of his friends in the senate. thomas dodd in connecticut, the father of christie dodd really blasted mansfield. talk about bipartisan. dirksen became the -- the republican leader to come to the defense of the democratic leader saying, you know, you should not talk about your leader. this is sacrilegious do that. and it was mike mansfield who had a speech prepared that said,

you know this, is the way i am as a leader. you can basically take it or leave it. he was going to give that speech on november 22, 1963. that was the day john f. ken dip was assassinated. kennedyay that john f. was assassinated. he never gave the speech. it was time for this speech, in 1998,part of a series of speeches by former speeches in the senate that senate majority leader trent lott recognized. my phone rang in the historical office and it was mike mansfield. the guy responsible for the creation of the historical office in the 1970s. he said, i've been asked to give a speech for this series. what should i talk about? i knew about the 1963 speech on the nature of leadership he never gave. he stuck it in the record. i said, senator, give that, shape it a little bit. he said, well, maybe i'll do that.

he did. it was the first in a series of speeches on leadership, but all on the senate website. and it was a blockbuster. it was just magnificent. >> we hear a lot today about how this is the meanest time in the history of the senate and the house of representatives. going to read back to you what's in this book. in. it's got a footnote. i think it may be merrill petersen. >> i looked into that. it was a powerful statement. i hadn't realized the hatred, one example, of john quincy adams and daniel webster. adams called daniel webster the

man with the rotten heart. it was daniel webster who blocked john quincy's adam's one major aspiration, to be a united states senator. daniel webster did not want his other delicate to be john quincy adams, a former president whom he couldn't manipulate. he wanted somebody less threatening and got somebody less threatening. for the rest of his life, john quincy adams resented webster for that particular action. they hated each other. they also loved each other. it was daniel webster who wrote -- who wrote the inscription that is on john quincy adams about the accomplishments. about hisfin accomplishments. >> hated and loved each other? >> plof/hate relationship. another one. clay could be savage.

there was a fistfight on the senate floor. who was benton? >> a democrat from missouri. henry clay was a whig. they could be opposing parties. he was a large bullying type of man who was remembered for pulling a -- pulling a -- for moving down the senate aisle in 1850 against a senator from mississippi. a foot -- a foot. henry foot. and the foot was so intimidated by the presence of thomas hart benton that he pulled a silver plated pistol out of his inner coat pocket and pointed it at benton. 1850. >> where. >> in the floor of the senate. in the old senate chamber. it was benton at that point who theatrically opened his jacket and told other senators who were trying to put this to an end -- stand out of the way, stand out of the way. let the assassin fire.

and unfortunately the assassin did not become an assassin and cooler heads prevailed. that was in the 1850s. members carried pistols. >> were they fired at either chamber? >> not in the senate. i don't think in the house. i mean, everything short of that. >> how many senators and congress people and they were all men at that time, carried pistols? >> in that particular time period, maybe -- i don't know, i don't have any hard evidence, but it wouldn't be surprising to say 20% or more. . >> pretty tough times.

>> why do people today keep saying this is the meanest congress they've ever seen. this book. >> because -- being the meanest. >> it's bad. it's bad. but not the first ever. you can start with the beginning of congress. 1798, 1799. the federalists versus the democratic republicans, they hated each other. thomas jefferson said if we saw a member of the opposition he'd cross the street to avoid having to tip our hat to that person and say hello to them. >> any idea when the duel stop? >> in the 130s through the 1850s. a 235i mouse duelling ground not -- there was a famous dueling ground notfar from capitol hill, bladesensburg, maryland, many of invitations to meet thereupon.

>> senate debates are often violent and sometimes ugly. clay's mastery of vote hustling prompted senate fall lores to call him a dictator. benton unmatched egotism. amazing the language used to describe them. the question to you about this, neil mcneil was a journalist. you were an employee of a united states senator for 35 years. did you have any trouble with the adverbs, adjectives, the defining people in this book? >> no. >> why not? >> it was a very good journal iles with a vastf command of the english language. sitting there, reading his drafteds. -- reading as drafts. i would say, yeah, that's right. that gets to the heart of the matter. so i did nothing to censor it or cool it down. i just welcome it.

>> i gather you wrote the story in here about the current senate minority leader, mr. mcconnell from kentucky? >> i did. >> there's a story there about his background and why he got there and why he wanted to -- can you tell us that. >> i never knew he had polio as a young man, a young boy. it took a lot of courage and tenacity and the help of his mother to get on and move on. at one point, he was interested in becoming an historian today. very well read in american political history. but it was a tough decision. does he want to become an academic or a practicing politician? >> you say he had a goal of becoming a majority leader of the united states senate way back when. what encouraged you to do that? -- what encouraged him to do that. >> he had a summer internship with senator john sherman of

kentucky. >> a liberal republican. >> yes. there were some. and i just soaked that up. -- she just soaked that up. all the more power to internship programs. . people's lives. >> then what was next? he graduated. went to work for another senator from kentucky. marlo cook. he went to work for another one. tell genic, interesting gentleman. and got involved in the civil rights act in the 1964 when he was with john sherman cooper. >> how often in your experience did the senators in leadership come from staff? >> fairly often. one of the major reasons why senators did not want to have professional staffs. it was not until after world war ii that they decided they

absolutely needed them. them. but you hire these staff, you're going to have somebody who's smarter than you are. that person will be smart enough to know he could beat you in a primary. that has happened in other cases. they have just succeeded their mentors. >> senator robert byrd was alive. last time we talked. he was awaiting the opportunityhe claimed the longest serving --member of congress ever. that's already been retired. it's john dingle now. >> it depends on how you define it. if you say senate, he'll hold the longest serving senate in history. that was satisfy it. the frosting of the cake to say the whole congress. but today, he'll smile and say, i'll hold on to the senate. >> you were right about the -- you write aboutcivil rights

act of 1964. i don't know if we've seen this. this is an interview where he was asked a question about why he changed his mind on civil rights. because he was very much against the bill. i want you to react to this. [video clip] >> it came to mind at that time how i loved his grandson. and it also came to my mind that black people love their grandsons too. and i don't know where i thought about it. i thought, well now, suppose i were black. and my grandson and i were out on the highways in the mid hour -- the wee hours of the morning or midnight and i stopped at place to get that little grandson a glass of water or to have it go to the restroom. only. black people love their grandson as much as i love mine. and that's just not right.

so we who like myself are born in the southern environment, grew up in southern people, knew their feelings. knew about the civil war and all these things, i thought, my goodness, we ought to get ahead of the curb, really. not have the law force us to do it, we ought to take down those signs. that is what made me came to the conclusion, if i had though do it over again, i would vote against that. byrd. center. >> i'm on the board of directors in the byrd center. >> up in shepherdstown. >> yeah, raymond stock. >> what did you think of that answer? >> oh, in 1982, senator byrd lost his grandson, 16-year-old john michael moore in an

automobile accident. he was delivering papers early in the morning. probably the most devastating, without question, the most devastating event in senator byrd's life. going to the minority. -- he had gone into the minority asa minority leader. very unhappy period. he thought his life, his contributions, where he wanted to go. >> what will be his legacy? >> i think it will be a significant legacy when i -- this book is filled with robert byrd. starts with robert byrd, ends with robert byrd. i didn't see any way to do that. he brings focus to the senate as an institution in the 1980s. he was interest in the majority leader's power. to arrest senators -- hiding, they didn't want to make a quorum during filibuster. he called me in and said, you suppose you could give me a little piece on the history of arresting senators from hiding from filibusters?

he did. -- i did. he liked it. he had other question, other matters at the is senate -- the procedure. and before the 1980s was out -- were out -- he delivered 100 speeches and they were publish in the bicentennial of the senate as a very large history of the senate, an enpsych encyclopedia history of the senate. he will be remembered for that for sure but also for the conscience of the senate. he developed over the course of his career and a remarkable senate career. >> ever get mad at you? >> he -- one time i had a great idea for a book. he might want to work on. he looked at me. and he said,"oh, well dr. baker, that could be your book. in a's not going to be my book.

accokeekthat's as close as you can. >> he did get mad, we saw it often in hearings. >> absolutely, not at me. >> no, not at you. >> but we had a very cordial relationship. >> another famous name. the building is named after him. the old senate office building is named after him. this is 1952 in the hour of -- >> early television. >> thing called chro in, oscope. let's watch richard russell. [video clip] >> do you think it's now possible for a southerner to receive the democratic nomination for the president? >> i don't like to think that after 90 years of and the democratic party have been loyalists to the south over that period. but a man to be discriminated against because he happens to be born on the wrong side of the tracks or the wrong side -- of the mason-dixon line.

>> did you know him? >> no. he died in 19 1. -- 1971. >> what impact did he have? >> he had a huge impact while he was a member. is hard to assess his lasting impact there isa very large table in the office suite. that table is significant because around that table would sit members of the southern caucus. they ran the senate throughout the 1930s, 1940s, on to the '50s. he presided in the end of that period over the southern caucus. in 1974, no part of that. from lyndon johnson's point of view, he was a great mentor. he learned a lot about the senate when he came over from the house from richard russell. >> another famous southerner. this is 1987. on the floor of the senate. in the wheelchair, he's had a

leg amputated. john stennis. [video clip] >> thank you, senator. i want to highly compliment the senator from new jersey and the senator from new york for an important and difficult week they did too at times that they did preparing the bill and holding the hearings and going to a good solid amount of difficult work at times. something we take for granted. and don't get into the facts enough as to what has been done. but i want to call attention to it. -- i would like to call attention to the work that they've done. >> anybody like him? >> he was revered by his colleagues. he was respected by the political points of view. judge stennis. a man of great propriety. an issue of ethics to be looked into, they would turn to him.

one of a kind for sure. >> this is the second to last sentence you wrote. did you write that last chapter. >> yes. >> i wrote the whole chapter. >> you said this. scanning the two plus century landscape, one will note significant change coming in ed episodic and unplanned bursts and one will note dire frustration. what are you say ing? >> i'm saying analysts who say that the senate is in the last days are too close to right now. what you need to do is back up and take the longer view. my wife read this book shortly before i sent it off to the publisher. she looked ate it and she said, now i get it. now i understand. you hope everybody thinks the same thing. the senate is profoundly a conservative slow-moving history

tradition-based institution. if you don't remember that. don't take that into consideration, the senate makes no sense whatsoever. if the senate changes the rules from majority culture, huge problem. but you know, it won't be the senate anymore. if you consider -- if you rank all of the states in terms of the population and take the top 26 in smallest populated states, those amount to 16% of the population. the smallest 26 states. they would have 52 votes in the senate. and therefore, the majority. now, that was -- that was a great concern to the framers of the constitution that hadn't really broken down that way. they won't vote by states. but they could. >> a couple of weeks ago, we were looking at barbara mccull ski from the chair and she read a tweet. she had gotten saying that somebody on c-span as they were

watching the hearing not letting somebody talk. she answered it right there. is that good or bad for the senate? >> for many years, from the time television came to the senate in 1986, there was a prohibition against lap tops and blackberry unless the senate chamber for that reason. people are going to be responding and any constituent can -- they have contact from the floor of the senate. think it is a very good thing. >> is it good for the citizenry to get that close to the senator? >> no. i don't think so. the citizenry gets close to the senator through his or her office. a senator voted recently for cloture on the immigration legislation and voted against it. a senator from the southern state, the senator within a matter of minutes was deluged

with death threats, the worst possible kinds of messages. they're getting close to that senator through that office. >> you said last time you were here, you want to write a book of the communication between the constituents and the senators. i wonder if you had gotten closer to that idea. >> no, i haven't. a very hard book to write. it would require a lot of, you know, research and a lot of senatorial papers. >> what else? >> i have a book i want to write. not sure what it will be. >> what do you think? >> i would like to do a book about the relationship of maybe two senators, two very powerful senators. probably sometime in the -- in the past. whether there are documented records and get a sense of how that went and how that relationship had an impact on the making of the laws of the people of this nation. >> you have picked those two out? >> i had thoughts.

i need to run it up the flag pole. >> leaving it to next time. retired since 2009, but not -- not without busy days. richard baker, our guest. co-author and neil mcneil, now deceased since 2008 a book called "the american senator: an insider's story." thank you for joining us. >> thank you, brian, very much. >> for a dvd copy of this program, call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts, or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. q month a programs are also available as c-span podcasts.

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> next, your calls and comments on "washington journal." then the u.s. house of representatives returns and begins the day with general speeches. no man needs a strong partner, an honest partner, more than the american president shelter and cocooned as he is and what harry truman called the great white prison. that is why -- that is what i concluded after five years and hundreds of interviews, that those presidents with brave spouses willing to speak sometimes hard truths that others are unwilling to speak to the big gatt -- those presidents have a distinct advantage. let me give you an example -- had pat nixon be unable to cut through her husband's paranoia, watergate might have been

avoided but she had long given up on her husband by the time they reached the white house. they were leading virtually separate lives as you will see in my portrayal of this saddest of all presidential couples. i don't get my husband advice, pat was quoted as saying, because she did not needed. is there a man or woman alive who doesn't need advice from the person who knows him or her best? talkshor kati martan about how first ladies have shaped american history tonight at 9:00 eastern on c-span. more ofmorning, russell the southern baptist convention discusses religion in politics today. then the executive director of later, jonathan gifford, director of the george mason program for policy.

he talks about the creation of the interstate highway system. [video clip] journal" is next. ♪ ♪ good morning, is monday, july 8, 2013 and congress gets back to work today following its annual july 4 recess. immigration reform will continue to be a hot topic as attention shifts from the senate to the house. president obama is expected to take a more public role at that -- as the debate takes place in the week ahead -- weeks ahead. but u.s. officials keep an eye i combustible political situation in egypt well in the u.s., the president defends a list of federal employees set to be affected byhe