everybody claims to be an environmentalists and want a healthy planet. when you ask them what they feel about the effects. higher electricity bills higher prices at the the gasoline pump. they don't like that. obviously the president push is, we are going from a fossil fuel path to a renewable future. renewable future will bring a whole new set of jobs. you're not going to replace coal job with a wind, solar or geothermal job instantaneously. >> we're out of time. expecting the comment we saw on the end of the senate will transfer to the house of representatives? >> don't hold your breath.

that's not going to happen. 38th vote to repeal healthcare reform, it's the same partisan divisions we saw last congress. the election really didn't change anything. >> thanks for both of you for your teem this week. >> thanks a lot. >> over on c-span two, 9:30 eastern we'll be live at the brooking institution for a panel discussion on immigration policy and its impact. later in the day, the alliance for health reform on lowering medicare spending. now a discussion about race in america. in light of last week's verdict in the george zimmerman trial. from this morning's "washington journal," this is an hour and 20

minutes. >> we want to focus on the issue of race relations in america in light of the trayvon martin. we want to welcome mycal denzel smith and armstrong william mycal smith i want to begin with your words from the nation magazine. you said quote, i ask him and everyone who said we must respect the verdict. how long are we suppose to remain calm when the laws we call it respect to exist, the arc of the more universe bends slowly and our lives are on the line. can you explain? >> looking at the verdict. it was a lack of respect for black life. trayvon martin was put on trial what was suppose to be george zimmerman's trial. his character was assassinated. his parents had to sit there as

mark o'mara and don west and george zimmerman defense team put on the most racist defenses i seen in in a courtroom. the stand your ground law and the self-defense law give you what constitutes protecting yourself. i think open assault particularly on black youth because who is going to be considered a threat. who is going to be considered enough of a threat that people can justify killing them for just fear of their life instead of being in actual danger. >> armstrong williams, your words from the washington times. the zimmerman you say was not about race. mr.zimmerman is hispanic. the biggest social issue is why 90% of young black men are killed are the victims of other black men. >> listen, mycal arctic elites a feeling that is very prevalent

in this country. he should not minimize it. unfortunately many black youths feel they are targeted. they feel their profiled. when you hear police officers tell you that in training, they are taught to profile young black men. it's a reality that many parents in this country who happen to be black in america, must face the realities. in the george zimmerman case, it was not about race. it was about a situation where a george zimmerman who was the neighborhood watch person who should not have been carrying a gun in the neighborhood. i don't know any neighborhood watch person carrying a gun. obviously george zimmerman was a coward. we were coming along in the days, we got into a beef, we would fight with our first. that is what we did.

that's cowardly. instead of him fighting -- obviously there was an altercation and no one was there. all six jurors were unanimous in their verdict. george zimmerman should not have the gun on him. but there was reasonable doubt and the president stated that the jury, you could understand how they came to that conclusion. the president also said, either lives could be lost. trayvon martin could have killed george zimmerman. it's an unfortunate situation i don't think it was a case about race. it was a case about someone in a situation where the dispatcher asked him to step back. do not pursue the victim. he continued to pursue and a young man died for no reason at all and his parents are left

wondering about the future of not only for themselves but young black men. i don't think it's so much about him profiling, it's the way someone is dressed. you can be latino, white or asian and if you're with a hood and you dressed that way, it had more to do with dressed why he was profiled. >> the president friday afternoon unannounced coming to the white house briefing at the top of the daily briefing with press secretary jay carney. he spoke with note about for about 18 minutes. the entire event has been posted on our website. we talked about this again yesterday. here's part of what the president said about we he called a dialogue on race relations that needs to happen this country. [video clip] >> finally it's important for all of us to do some soul searching. there have been talk about should we convene a conversation on race.

i haven't seen that be particularly productive. when politicians try to organize conversations and end up being politicized and folks are locked into the position they already have. on the other hand, families and churches and workplaces, there's a possibility that people are a little bit more honest. at least you ask yourself your own questions about am i ringing as much bias out of myself as i can. am i judging people as much as i can based on not the color of their skin but the content of their character. that would, i think, be an appropriate exercise in the wake

of this tragedy. >> mycal denzel smith, your comments. >> i agree with the president. we don't need a conversation on race. a conversation on race ends with i'm black. we need it as an agenda to address racism and racial equality. i think that's what we need here. to armstrong's point, this is all about race. it's not that mr. zimmerman was hispanic, it was that trayvon martin was black. that's the reason george zimmerman found him suspicious. we can talk about dress all we want. the association with the hoodie is blackness. the association with the way he's dressed is blackness. that's the reason that trayvon martin was found a suspicious that night. >> the president talked about america's criminal justice system. here's more from the white

house. >> folks are knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws. everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case. this isn't to say the african-american community is naive about the fact that african-american young men are dis proportionately involved in the criminal justice system. they are disproportionately victims and perpetrators of violence. it's not to make excuses for that fact. although black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical concept. we understand the violence a

takes place in poor plaque neighborhood -- black neighborhoods are born out a violent path in this country. the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history. >> the comments of the president last friday and he's headlines on this sunday morning from miami and l.a. one of more than 100 demonstrations around the country called trayvon martin rallies. >> listen, that is the american way. people should protest and march and do it peacefully in respect to each other. that is who we are. i celebrate it. if that's wait they need to express themselves because they find the verdict to be travesty of justice, let them express it

that way. to the president, it is unfortunate in america that after all of these years and all that we've gone through as a nation, people just don't know each other. it is unfortunate to believe that just because someone is a black youth that they may have a propensity towards crime. but also unfortunate to believe just because somebody is write or any other race, they have a propensity to have a grudge against blacks, they have no respect for black life. i like to believe that many people in it country, i would say most americans have moved beyond this thing that we call race. we have the laws on the books and the laws should be enforced. you cannot legislate one's heart and you cannot legislate people who hate. we have to deal with the racism on both sides. you can listen to some of the

right wing conservative shows and the kinds of things they say about president obama and the things they say about trayvon martin. you hear the same racism from blacks that you hear from small percentage of whites in this country. what we have to do is lower the volume because the problem is not everyone is a racist and a bigot in this country. the president is right. there's a deeper point he was trying to make. if it had been a white killing a white, nobody would have been cared. a black killing black, nobody could have cared. we are so up in arms when its black and wheat and black hispanic. we got to will be to care about the loss of life. >> armstrong williams on xm radio.

also a columnist for the washington times. mycal denzel smith who blogs for the nation.com. >> the noble fellow at the nation institute. >> does what? >> that is a fellowship for journalism. we welcome your calls and comments. you can join us on facebook or twitter . earl is joining us from arlington, texas, democrats line. caller: what we hear in 2013 seeking justice more trayvon martin and we haven't had justice for emmitt till. these things are laughable. until we as black folks denounce this system -- incarcerate young

black men for drug offenses. we make up such a small amount of percentage of drug use in this country but we are incarcerated at the higher rate. i don't know what world armstrong williams lives in. he lives in a world of delusion. host: okay, we'll get a response. guest: i'm an american first. there's so much opportunity here. it's why the immigrants find their way here and take full advantage of it. until people begin to believe that this is the best system in the world. yes, there are flaws in our laws and flaws in the justice system. if you want to create opportunity and you cannot do it by not getting the best education. you cannot do it by having a

disportion gnat number of babies out of wedlock. you got to realize that shackles are no longer there and realize that you're free. >> these figures by the way courtesy from the naacp. between 1980 and 2008 the incarceration rate quadrupled from african-americans from 500 million to 2.3 million. 500,000 i should say. today the u.s. is 5% of the world population. it has 25% of the world's prisoners. the african-american rate makes up nearly one million of the 2.3 million incarcerated. african-americans incarcerated nearly six times the rate of white. in 2008 african-americans and

hispanic comprised 58% of all prisoners groups making up 25% of the u.s. population. since 2001, one in six african-american men have been incarcerated if the current trend continues naacp reports one in three african-american males could spends time in prison during their lifetime. >> because black people are over-policed. the incarceration rate is an indication we're committing more crime. i think we're talking about in that feeds into the idea, the black men or specifically, and black women, the black men you see are indeed criminals. to talk more about what armstrong saying. i don't think what we're experiencing is a lack of regard for all life.

i think the reason we scream and shout when black life is lost and discarded or dehumanized in this way that trayvon martin was, because black life are the ones that are not treated with the same value. hispanic life is not treated with the same value. we can see after the tragic shooting in newtown, we were pushing for gun legislation and as we should. the shootings in chicago happening all the time and those communities are hurting and bleeding and they care very deeply about what's going on in their community. we can have organizations like the interrupttors trying to curve violence in the community and organizations like the black youth project. it's only happening after the loss of white life that people are paying attention.

>> armstrong williams who can be read at the washington times. you want to respond? >> i don't know if mycal, i appreciate mycal and his perspective in hearing thoughts from his generation. it's important because i'm also here to learn. i also think, mycal, that if you look at our country and you have a strong family structure. there are many blacks in this country that still continue to have a strong family structure. the kind of issues are less likely to have. if you look at jewish families and other families in this country where you keep a family together and you have a strong father, strong mother and sometimes beyond your control that don't exist. i think that the break down of the black family and the fact that these young men never knew what discipline or work ethic

really is. they turn to things like drug, alcohol and gangs they're looking for real self-esteem. if we can get back to the family structure, many of these issues today that we're discussing will be less prevalent. >> i don't totally disagree. i do believe that a lot of young men are seeking love and validation and trying to establish their own self-esteem and fiend it -- find it in way that's are productive. i don't know it's necessary for a traditional family structure as i'm presuming that you mean as far as father-mother in the household. i think we can expand the idea of family and we can expand that to communities that take care of people.

by that, also in communities. we should think of this more wholisticly instead of thinking of every individual family unit unto itself. >> he point is that, the fathers. they need men. whether it's a grandfather or mentor. they need a male structure if their lives. >> to that, if you're going to have men in their lives, they have to be whole men. if you're not raising healthy whole men and we're sending to the prison. we're over-policing them. we have food insecurity. if we don't have healthy and whole men that are supported by our community structure, then being in the household is not going to make much a difference. >> there are seven times already murders committed by blacks than

by whites. >> again, we have to look at is the root causes of these things. that's an accurate statistic. it's not inherent to blackness to kill or have a disregard for life. we talk about disproportionate crimes we have to talk about disproportionate policing. >> from jacksonville, florida, good morning. caller: i want to just make a comment and say that i really think that the trayvon martin situation has sparked a really more coming together among african-americans. as far as something that inherently wrong the criminal

justice system in our country. i know many of the thought that's most african-americans don't have fathers and different things like that and this is the cause of the crimes and things. that's partly true but i know many men that are incarcerated that came from wrong families. but they may have come from the long place at the wrong time and the criminal justice giving them 20 or 30 years for drugs that they have not gotten a fair shake. nobody brings up the fact that it was a week later before zimmerman was arrested, his father is a judge. he had ample time to prepare that young man for whatever he was going to face in terms of a

trial. >> elaine, thanks for the call. we're looking at the photographs from the new york times and washington d.c. as demonstrates took place. armstrong williams? >> this is a very tough conversation because to make it seem as though the reason why there's such a high incarceration, drug or whatever, is because of the government or somebody else. at some point you may admit the government plays a role. you got to realize that the problem lies within the community. it doesn't lie outside of the community. the community allows these things to happen. young black men sitting here listening to the show may feel he doesn't have any responsibility. slavery is the reason why they commits this crime and the

system is not fair. at some point you look at your life. you're educated and obviously someone in your life had to guide you to make the right choices. while we talk about the laws and the law should be fair for crack cocaine. the law should be fair. it should not favor one or the other. at some point, the frightening part for me is that they bear most of the responsibility as to why they're incarcerated and choose drugs. it's not the system to blame. they have to take the blame for it. if these kids don't understand that having an education, they don't understand the importance of learning, they don't understand that shooting somebody and know the law is unfair to you if you're caught with drug, then why do drugs? at some point personal

responsibility and accountability have to say, look, you're responsible for your own life in the end. i'm sorry. >> two meants on the table from our viewers. this is from monty on our twitter page. he says, liberty and justice for all and dictates that nobody should get away with murder. on our facebook page, there's this comment, the trouble in the black community not due to history of slavery or racism, the high rate of black father that's abandon their children what causes problem, criminal behavior and low test scores. the welfare system breeds that. >> to ask the question about why do people use drugs if they know they're legal. why are we not addressing the reason they do drugs. it's a mental health issue and we do not have structures in place that allowing our young people to get the proper mental healthcare in this country. particularly black youth. what we're looking at is

escapism. some of it is recreational youth. no different than drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco but we are policing the vices of people in a way that boost our incarceration rate. we have for profit prisons where people can profit from the incarceration of people. this is the system that we have and this is the system we're up against. we don't want to address the root causes. >> our topic race relations in america. our guests, mycal denzel smith and armstrong williams. we will go for a full hour. blake is on the phone from mobile, alabama, republican line. caller: good morning. i think c-span you can do a big service by just presenting the facts. it seems like that politicians like our president obama, to me

seems like he's stoking race here. he know the facts. he's a lawyer and president. i heard a juror being interviewed on cnn and i was shocked. i didn't know some of the things that she said. obviously, it's not being promoted. it has to do with the 911 tape where he was apparently told to stay in his car don't follow. apparently it was doctored when it was initially released by certain groups. anyway, apparently on the 911 tape that told him to stay in the car, don't go near this person we're going to send police or whatever it is. then they said, but keep an eye

on him. let us know where he's going. how the hell he was suppose to know where he's going unless he's trying to figure it out and follow him? nobody told this. but the juror said that's why he had to come out. the 911 tape showed that. >> armstrong williams? >> listen, the jury had insurmountable task given the pressure of the task and this country. i found it interesting that the star witness, her name was rachael jeantel, i saw her in an interview on the huffington post. i was stunned when he said trayvon martin hit george zimmerman first. when i heard that, i actually thought it was the other way around.

the jurors were in tears. some of them wanted to find george zimmerman guilty. there was a fierce debate. in the end after looking at the evidence, there was a reasonable doubt. they came to a conclusion. they came to the conclusion that there was reasonable doubt that he was not guilty. it doesn't mean he was innocent but there was reasonable doubt. >> this is an e-mail from gerald who lives in michigan. he said has a white man i moved myself out of detroit as black moved up crime went up and property values dropped. it was for financial reason bus not -- reasons but not race. >> the idea that black people

came in we had increase in crime. what about increase in poverty. that's what the common denominator. lack of high rate of poverty. lack of access to education, low healthcare. these are all issues we've dealt with other communities in our path. when immigrant communities came to this country, they didn't come from ireland and from germany from italy. they didn't have the same opportunities that we think of today. ...

host: i want to get your reaction. this is a photograph that made the rounds last week. there is a similar photograph characterizing president obama in the same hoodie. this is martin luther king jr. guest: it is hard work. king would not have been wearing an hoodie and obama would not have been wearing one because they were not in existence during their time. i want to come back to what mycal just opined about.

i have to tell you, if the person wants to be educated in this country today, it can be educated. there are a lot of people in this country who are poor and to not have much and do not do drugs los altos or do not go out and commit crimes. -- or do drugs or do not on an commit crimes. we have got to stop using poverty as a reason for why people commit these crimes or other social pathologies we talked about. that is not an excuse. just because people say they are suffering and are done under law does not mean they cannot keep their house clean. -- are down on their luck does not mean they cannot keep their house clean. we had an interview last week as someone on our show. several people called in and set a lot of these young people in your generation hope to apply for jobs and 90% to not get the job because they failed the drug test.

if you know you have a job on the line, the least you have common sense not to do drunks for the two weeks. there are a lot of reasons why these young people are not progressing. the least is because they do not have opportunity. they are just not in a position to take advantage of the opportunities. host: and victoria is joining us from connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning to your panel. mr. williams, i have been a follower of you for many years. i have listened to you and i am grateful i have an opportunity to espouse some of my views on the disservice you do to our community. you just made a comment that poverty is not an excuse. neither is a lot of fathers.

president clinton did not have a father and he became the president of the united states. president obama did not have been found in he also became the president of the united states. the issues we face is because of the misconception of crime and property values decline. the issue is that people who have made it do not go back to the communities they came from to help others. host: thanks for the call. armstrong williams and then we will go to mycal denzel smith. guest: i never want to minimize the importance of fathers. i had a father that was a testament to the huge difference it can make. they make a difference now.

host: a sidebar from yesterday's front page. your reaction to what the president said yesterday afternoon. guest: trayvon martin could have been armstrong williams. that is the way black men are viewed, as inherent criminals. we are followed and stalked and killed. people can get away with it. that is what the president was speaking to and explaining to the country. the idea that he was stoking racist fears -- speaking about racism is not stoking racist fears. we are a nation built on racism. until we admit that and deal with it, we will continue to have these conversations. host: have you faced discrimination, racial profiling, or what trayvon martin ? guest: never.

you seem shocked. are you saying i should because i am black? host: the president made the comment of going to a mall -- guest: i had a conversation with my brother. he is a state senator in south carolina. he was telling me when he was running for office that there were whites who refused to shake his hand because he is black. my comment is not an acknowledgement that it does not exist. i know it exists. it has not been my experience. guest: you are a lucky one. i have been stopped by police when i was doing nothing wrong. i have had my tags randomly selected to be scanned. i have been followed in department stores. the biggest thing about racism is that it is happening in you do not know that it is happening. you do not have to experience it

directly. it is always limiting your experience here in america. host: this piece is in the washington post. it was published on friday, the same day the president came out later in the day. he says, we need to examine racial issues like those exposed in the trayvon martin case. the president is not the best person to lead the discussion. through no fault of his own, he might be the worst. guest: because of what happened when he spoke last year. he said, if i had a son, he would look like trayvon martin. it became a highly politicized issue at that point and divided along partisan lines. even conservative republican voices who had expressed support for trayvon martin and his family were on the other side because the idea is that if president obamas for it, i have to be against it. -- if president obama is for it

out, i have to be against it. host: did that change friday when the president said, i could have been trayvon martin? guest: the president has said that before. i thought the president's speech was excellent. my concern here today is a concern that if you keep telling certain people in this country you are profile, you will never be a full american, you will never have the same opportunities, along with all of the other issues they have to deal with in life -- life is a battle in itself. we are always fighting some kind of battle. how do you give them any kind of hope that they can overcome anything? guest: the issue is not to say that because of racism cannot achieve.

the history of black people in this country is achieving in the face of racism. my problem is we had to achieve in the face of racism. the message is not necessarily for black people. black people who experienced racism understand they are experiencing racism. the message is for the racist structure in this country to say we need to face -- fix this because this is not allowing black people or people of color to fulfil their potential in this country. host: the cover story on time magazine after trayvon. the story says the trial has ended, but the repercussions of a florida teenager's death have only just begun. in the body of the story, the author writes, there will be a new discussion about how america handles its diversity.

whites will no longer be the majority of the population. children under the age of five will be from minority groups. elizabeth dias joins us live on the phone. as you put this cover story together -- and we just saw some of the figures -- what else did you learn? guest: it is a great question. the day after the verdict was announced was sunday. 80% of blacks of america say religion is very important in their lives. we took a look at what was happening in the pulpits across america. no surprise. the verdict and the reactions were foremost on pastor's minds and hearts as they preached. a week later, i am sure that is what is happening again.

it has been quite a week. when the story came out, the president had only issued an e- mail statement about the verdict and surprised the nation on friday with his comments. we are really seeing the trayvon martin moment is not going away in the country. coming on the heels of the voting rights act and a month before the 50th anniversary of the march on washington, we are seeing some momentum building around race relations in america. host: let's talk about the economic disparity in america. here are some figures from time magazine between whites and blacks. the medium -- median income among blacks is $33,000 versus $55,000 among whites. on the issue of discrimination,

16% of whites say there is discrimination. 56% of blacks say there is discrimination. guest: the figures are pretty stark. you listen to the stories they tell and it only feeds the sentiment building across the country. in the past 30 days, one in 4 young black men feel but they have been inappropriately stopped by police or had some kind of action that was a reaction to a racist system. the combination of these economic factors, especially with the recession, which it right when barack obama came into office, you'll see the story line about race in america. on the -- fuels the story line about race in america. we have the first african-

american president and we have really difficult economic times. these two dueling stories and they are trying to figure out which one takes hold in the future. host: why did he president come out on friday? guest: that is the question. they were very careful in not revealing details. the white house realize this is not a story that is going away. this is just my imagining, but i would imagine the president and the first lady talked about the case and i think it was an issue that the president decided it was time to talk about. and so he did. he surprised the whole white house press corps. it was also a sign that maybe the justice department has decided that is only a limited

set of actions they can or are going to take, which gave the president a bit more freedom to just come out and say this is what i think. host: elizabeth dias, if you could stay on the phone for a minute -- mycal denzel smith, you think the president was under pressure to make a statement? he gave a statement on sunday. guest: not from african-american leaders, but from people on the street. he could not ignore those kinds of numbers. i was in new york city on sunday and there were thousands of people who took the streets from new york to times square. rallies and marches all over the country. the rev. al sharpton has marches planned for 100 cities. it was necessarily directed by african-american leaders, but by people in the streets. host: elizabeth dias, let me take your cover story and put it

in the form of a question. what is next after trayvon martin? guest: we are going to see a lot of people in washington in a month for the march on washington's 50th anniversary. when it comes to legislation and the governmental action that needs to happen, locally, people are calling for the need to protect voting rights, especially after the supreme court decision striking down key portions of the voting rights act of 1965. there is also movement on the state level to repeal stand your ground across the country and the need to pass anti-racial profiling laws. also, there is a movement at around standing against gun proliferation. -- movement around standing against gun proliferation.

i do not think there is any illusion that it isn't going to be a long fight. we are seeing these rallies in dozens of cities across the country. trayvon martin's parents and their supporters are continuing to speak out. host: elizabeth dias, a part of the team with the cover story on time magazine. thank you for being with us. let me go back to armstrong williams and her point about the civil-rights movement and the voting rights act of 1965. a veteran of the civil rights movement, congressman john lewis, had this to say. [video clip] >> the day of the supreme court decision broke my heart. it made me want to cry. i felt like saying, come and walk in the shoes of people who

tried to register, tried to vote, but did not live to see the passage of the voting rights act. i know each of you knows this history, but i think is important for the record to notes what life was like before the body rights act of 1965. when i first came to washington, d.c. in 1961, the same year that president barack obama was born, blacks and whites could not sit together on a bus travelling through virginia, through north carolina, through georgia, alabama, mississippi, new orleans. we saw signs the said white only, colored only. in many parts of this country, people were denied the right to register to vote simply because of the color of their skin. they were harassed and

intimidated and fired from their jobs and forced awful firms and plantations. those who tried -- off of farms and dentitions -- plantations. before the voting rights act, people would stand in immovable lines. they would be asked to come the number of jelly beans in a jar. host: your comment. guest: the supreme court was absolutely correct. why are we still having pre clearance for southern states only? why do states like texas have to pre clear there voting laws? what should be in place today was a reflection -- is a

reflection of the progress. president barack obama was elected president and be elected president. this country has made tremendous progress. there are issues we have to fight. but the laws in terms of the pre clarence or outdated. everything that happens - pre- preclearance are outdated. if people go out into their own research and study the issues themselves, they will come to a different conclusion. host: from our independent line, good morning. we focus on race relations in america. you are on the air. please go ahead. caller: good morning, sir.

turn the volume down. that will eliminate the the echo. caller: we have enough talking head type people on these shows. mr. mycal denzel smith is absolutely right. i listened to a god -- a guy earlier about the 911 call. why did he stay in his car? in this area, a young man who got shot down. we have got to go all the way back and look at what happened to the black people in america from slavery up to now. you will find out why the black man does not take care of his

son. during slavery, we would breed babies because we were made to do that. back to the dope and drugs. the drugs are coming into the communities and there are no jobs. guest: obviously, no responsibility, somebody else's problem. our founding fathers certainly have irresponsibility to make sure that slavery never found itself on our soil. there is no excuse for drugs. there is no excuse for fathers his not being a father for their kids or being a role model. the best fathers not being a father to their kids or being -- fathers not being fathers to their kids are being a role model.

we can look at death row and the cases where an innocent person was put on death row. tactics used by police are not used to identify criminals. they are identifying crime and trying to get to a conclusion. they are not trying to identify the actual perpetrators. they are trying to get to a conclusion. to go back to what armstrong was saying about the voting rights act and asking why we need pre- clarence, i would support giving pre-clearance, i would support getting it for every state. look at which states passed the voting rights act first.

the argument that is always brought up is that it is just an idea and everyone should have won. that goes to inequality in this country. in has not been a problem with our voting system. we are trying to address the problem that does not exist. why are we trying to address it? to keep certain people away from voting. host: like we are on -- like armstrong williams, we are also on c-span radio. guest: sirius 110. host: columbus, ohio.

good morning. caller: i would like to ask the panel one thing. what if the six women on the jury would have been black? host: we will get their response and come back for your follow- up. guest: i do not think the jury makeup would have changed the verdict. 40% were white. 20% were hispanic. people need to heal. if people need to heal, let them protests. let them work this out. that is the american way. we should celebrate it. that people have that. host: agree or disagree? guest: if the jury was made up of six black women, there would have been more of a chance of

identification with trayvon martin as opposed to george zimmerman. there would have been more empathy. there may have been a different verdict. there might have been an -- hung trial. caller: basically, you are saying no matter what or who is on the jury, the man needs to be punished again even though he was found not guilty. number 2, where were the protesters when 2 black fellows approach to the mom and said, give us money. if you don't we are going to shoot your baby. point-blank, shot in the head, a 18 month old baby. where were the black population what was the black population of people marching for this baby?

nobody on cnn or mcnbc. -- msnbc. nobody spoke about that atrocity. guest: this is difficult for me to say. basically, 80% of blacks could really care less. all they really care about is that there was a black man who was killed. guest: i do not think what we are seeing -- where was the community that this child was from? guest: she said they did. she said were worthy black protesters? guest: it is not to say they did not care about that baby. it is a horrific incident.

we are talking about and root cause. the reason that they killed that baby was not because of their blackness. guest: you think george zimmerman killed trayvon martin because he with black? guest: he decided that he was going to take justice into his own hands. i do not have to think george zimmerman was innocent or even not guilty. i was not on the jury and i am not in a court of law. i believe george zimmerman was guilty of murder.

host: attorney general eric holder on tuesday spoke to the annual convention of the naacp. he also spoke about his own personal experiences in talking about race relations with his son. here is a portion of his remarks. [video clip] >> it is time to question laws that expand the question of self-defense to dangerous constructs in on a bullet. -- constructs in our neighborhoods. these laws try to fix something that was never broken. there has always been a legal defense to using deadlye ford seahawksw -- deadly force if no retreat is available.

such laws undermine public safety. they have victimize too many who are innocent. it is our collective obligation. we must stand our ground -- [applause] we must get our ground to ensure that our laws reduce violence and taking a hard look at laws that contribute to more violence than they present. news of trayvon martin's death last year and the discussions

death taking place since then reminded me of my father's word so many years ago. it brought me back to a number of experiences i had as a young man when i was pulled over twice and my car searched on the new jersey turnpike when i was sure i was not speeding, or when i was stopped by a police officer while running to catch a movie at night in georgetown in washington, d.c. i was, at the time of that last incident, a federal prosecutor. [laughter] trayvon martin's death caused me to sit down and have a conversation with my own 15- year-old son. this was a father-son tradition i hoped would not need to be handed down. as a father who loves his son

and is known -- more knowing in the ways of the world, i have a responsibility not to burden him with the baggage of eras long gone, but to make him aware of what he must still confront. host: the naacp convention held just a few miles of where the trial took place in orlando, florida. guest: eric holder hit on the same point barack obama hit on. but he hit on a bigger indictment of racism that barack obama did. these are the concerns of people raising black youth in this country. they will have to tack on lessons of an era that they thought was gone because the problems still persist.

host: one of our viewers brought up the issue of the time and that was killed. this is the story from cnn if you want to get more information. two people were arrested. the 17-year-old will likely be charged as an adult. the 13-month-old boy was in an stroller being pushed by his mother. in tampa, florida, the democrats' line. caller: i have a few comments. obama said trent lott could have been -- trayvon could have been him 35 years ago. he could have suffered the same fate, too. people perjured themselves by saying the telephone call that

ended with the shot was george zimmerman. we all know it was trayvon martin. george zimmerman was deciding whether to shoot or not to shoot. we all know that he shot. also, the case was lost and jury selection. no blacks, no chance. guest: there were blacks, but it just did not work out. i want to go back to something eric holder said, the attorney general. i love the fact that he said he counsels his son. as a father, he knows more about the world. it only makes the argument for the importance of having a father in the household. george zimmerman's case was not about stand your ground. but the attorney general was pandering because he realizes he

cannot bring a hate crime case because the bar is so high. that is what gave the president leeway to talk about this case and put it in the proper context. the department of justice is not going any further. the jury made its decision and we should move on. host: the headline is, obama has something to say about trayvon martin and americans needed to hear it. although his apparently unconnected comments in the white house press room drew scorn and accusations of racism by some on the right, he was right to lay out a constructive and non-political path will work. your comments. guest: the president's remarks were absolutely excellent. no other president who has ever been in that white house could have had experiences that president obama had. he had credibility, he was

measured. our jury system still works the matter how flawed it is. it is the best in the world. we have to respect it and move on because it still works. host: our next caller is joining us from virginia. caller: i just have a few comments to make. i really want to talk about the history of racism. racism actually began in greece. they said what was purity. as far as africans and blacks in america being enslaved, go into the civil-rights movement,

electing obama and thinking racism was over, we have been fooled. host: have you been fooled? guest: we are talking up the issue of racism. they were not slaves because they were black. they separated slaves from indentures servants. that is the history we are dealing with. if we have not dealt with that history, yes we are being fooled into believing that this is not a country built on racism. guest: america, unlike in place in the world, based it on skin color. that is when it became racism. guest: we codified racism into the law. host: there is no question whatsoever that law enforcement

is biased against minorities. agree or disagree? guest: it is taught in law enforcement. i find it very shocking. in talking to law enforcement of issues, they use the issue of black youths. we need to change the way law enforcement teaches their officers to identify threats. guest: i absolutely agree with armstrong williams on that. instead of teaching that young people -- young black people are the threat to feed into explicit and implicit bias in this country, it continues the idea that black men are the sole problem of crime in this country.

law enforcement needs to be aware of this bias, aware of this racism and they have to be dedicated to one doing it. host: here is more from the president on friday. [video clip] when i was in illinois, i passed racial profiling legislation. it collected data on traffic stops and the rest of the person who was stopped. it resources us training police departments across the state on how to think about potential racial bias in ways to further professionalize what they were doing. initially, the police departments across the state were resistant. but they came to recognize that if it was done in a fair, straightforward way, it would allow them to do their jobs

better and communities would have more confidence in them and it would be more helpful in applying the law. guest: we are talking about police dedicating themselves to undoing racial profiling, assuming black youths are always the perpetrators. you cannot separate the police from the larger cultural system and the larger cultural messaging of black men as criminals. guest: in my experience, i have been stopped by police officers. i like to speak. i like the gas. in every instance -- i learned this from my father. whenever you are stopped by an officer of the law, you always show respect. the best thing to do is to be quiet and answer questions. in all my instances which police

officers, the last thing they want to do is give you a ticket. the last thing they want to do is get into a piece with you - beef -- beef with you. if you are not taught the are the enemy, if you see them as people who put their lives on the line to protect you, if your attitude is different and is, let me cooperate and work with this person -- it is better to have a good attitude. just say, yes, officer, yes, officer. you will find you will not get a ticket and you will have a pleasant experience. host: ron is our next caller on the republican line. caller: incredibly difficult and deep subject. i will bring up an aspect nobody has considered. i have done a street ministry

for a number of years. one of the things i tell people i have contact with is be careful of covetousness. it is identified as idolatry. this is why i am concerned about it for the black community in particular. i think the black community has bought hook, line, and center -- sinker that they have a right to other people's stuff. this might be the reason for black crime. god hates idolatry. he does not like competition. i ask you to take his home and to on a little bit. i know it is coming from left -- and chew on it a little bit. host: where do you preach?

you call yourself a street minister. what does that mean? caller: i teach in college towns and in prisons. when it comes to race and prejudice and stuff like that, i tell people, particularly in prisons, that what goes on is that there is part of the human mind that is like a computer. just goes like, unlike. when we are talking about the sexes, the minds of those unlike. if there is -something that

looks foreign - the mind goes unlike. -- the mind goes unlike. host: thinking for the call. we could do an hour on just that. guest: black people do not want your stuff. they do not want to take your belongings. they want access to what has been described as the american dream. they won access to the same education and the same opportunities. -- they want access to the same education and the same opportunities. it is about wanting with the american promise is supposed to be. guest: the majority of whites in this country have not realize the american dream. when a thief is going into someone plus the house whether to steal their belongings or their lives, they feel they should have been because they do not want to work for it. that is not about race. that is what thievery is. guest: we can talk about the poverty rate among white people. the extremely high.

it is disproportionate when we talk about black people. there is a share of poverty among black people in proportion to their existing in this country. it is disproportionate. that is not to say we should only focus on black people or on latinos because of that disparity. we should be focusing on everyone. racism means that white ness -- whiteness gives you access to those things before other people. guest: many white people listening today would not agree with you. guest: it is race. it is class. it is gentle. it is sexual orientation. it is all -- it is gender. it is all of these things operating at one time. host: how you assign privilege?

guest: if i go to a job interview and i am dressed the same way you are and we go in with similar backgrounds similar education and they looked at me and they see a criminal still, but they look at you and they hire you, that is your privilege because you are white mess is not associated with criminality. my blackness is. guest: privilege is when you have the ownership and the clouds through your network for you can make a difference in somebody -- clout to your network where you can make a difference in somebody's life. if somebody comes in with tattoos, that is not something i want in my company. if they want to get hired, if they want opportunities, they

are going to have to adhere to somebody else's rules and guidelines. host: reform the drug laws, reform the prison systems and hire young people. good morning, caller. turn your volume down and we will hear you much better that way. caller: i am calling from apple valley, california. i grew up in the wood-screw up in north carolina. i have not -- grew up in north carolina. i have seen a lot of racism. i have a friend who is in prison who have never -- has never done anything wrong. we have a man who killed a young man.

you are not supposed to take a life and walk free. there is a problem. we are constantly talking about the situation, but we are not coming up with any solutions to resolve it. the propaganda that has gone on for years and years has ruins the reputation of african descendants. you look at our color, but automatically you are afraid. you did not know us as people. you know us as a color. god created man and woman. man created race as separation. we are all human beings and we are only in this world for a short time. host: how do we get there? what is your solution? caller: you come together as a people.

stop being discriminating because you do not understand the person. if you say hello to a neighbor and a neighbor says hello back to you, you have equated yourself with someone new who expected you to be someone else because of the propaganda of the color of your scan -- skin. host: that goes back to the question i posed to elizabeth dias. after trayvon martin. where do we go? guest: i am getting to know mycal. it is not just a job. you have to have conversations beyond what you are comfortable with. once you get to know each other, you think about race whether you are conservative, liberal, what your sexual orientation is. you have values in common. you have interest in things you

actually agree on. you cannot do that if you are so dismissive and you are not willing to have a conversation and willing to say, hi, my name is armstrong williams. caller: i would agree with mr. williams. having a father, role models in general, held so much. it is problematic that conservative african americans such as mr. williams seem to be automatically is credited by other african-americans. called uncle tom or worse names. if they do not speak slang, they are told they are acting white and told that they are less black and some of these role models that african americans look up to such as rappers who are out there glorify crime.

host: we will take a call from stacy. caller: i will say, god bless armstrong williams. think it is the people like mycal who are keeping racism alive. i am a white girl who has been pulled over several times for no reason whatsoever. it is about attitude. it is not about being some kind of victim all the time. with this george zimmerman thing, he is not even a white man. he is also a minority. host: we will leave it there. we will begin with mycal denzel smith. guest: this thing with george zimmerman being a minority, we are talking about racism. it affects us all.

it is not that we hate each other. we hate blackness. we hate things associated with blackness. that is what it is built on. we branch out and say we hate latinos and we discriminate against people of asian descent. but the core of it is anti- blackness. i am not keeping racism alive. i am trying to address it and to have an agenda about how we unto racism in this country. guest: it is sad that he feels that america hates blackness. it is a sad comment. obviously, he believes that. we have to show that this is not the case. i believe people all over the world, especially in the united states, america is much better than we think she is. as you live and make more people, you will find that out.

guest: we can talk about the interpersonal types of relationships. it is not that i have a bad experience with every white person that i know. we are talking about cultural and systemic messaging about blackness and systemic issues about over-policing blackness and the opportunities that blackness of force you. host: mycal denzel smith can be read online at thenation.com. armstrong williams is on xm >> more from the washing journal with an overview of the dodd frank act of the third anniversary. >> we want to focus on the dodd frank bill. is,kevinthe phone

cirilli let's take a step back. what are the main provisions of dodd frank and what impact has ahead on wall street and on banks? guest: it is a huge piece of legislation that really is comparable to obamacare in the financial world. what it really does is, the main think it does is try to prevent an economic showdown like we saw in 2008 from happening. through a variety of different mechanisms, one of the biggest mechanisms integration of the consumer financial protection brainchilds is the of elizabeth warren hole was a harvard professor and has since gone on to become a massachusetts democratic senator. lawlso rewrites some of the

s and gives government authority to make sure that some of the housing market and the banking laws are rewritten to aim 2008 from happening. about theme ask you vockel rule. this gets more complicated. banks and traits. can you explain that? rule as you get to -- we get to international markets and trading agreements, what really happened and one the biggest criticisms from 2008. this is where it gets tricky. people are saying we are bailed out. the argument is they did not have enough savings in their bank accounts and the government

had to step in and bail them out. language is requiring banks to have additional savings, if you will so they would not have to tap into government bonds and taxpayer money in order to be bailed out. this is where it gets tricky. recession and the 1930's, you have to remember that a lot of these banks were taking on and engaged in business that they are doing now. the argument really from washington and the fact is -- the fed is these guys are involved in a different type of business and it is riskier. they are investing with technology and how global economy has evolved.

this a lot faster. they are taking on a lot more risk. it is interconnected than when they mess up, it is implementing -- i am sorry, it is affecting such a wide, sweeping a domino effect that can be detrimental not only to the u.s. economy, but the global economy. host: it includes nearly 40 provisions and regulations in place and according to your , thating and others congress has failed to implement more than half, 62% from the treasury secretary to get some these regulations in place. why such a poor track record three years later? guest: partisan gridlock. there are a lot of people, there are two parts the number one is industry. perhaps some of them are

apprehensive of seeing the dodd frank fully implemented and they are unsure of how the law will be interpreted. number two, with the speed of not int is probably their best interest to have it implemented. the biggest take away is this slow case kelly to market uncertainty. think about it as a new language has been created by government and wall street officials in dodd frank. nobody is really sure how to interpret it. they are not sure what the dialect is and what it means. as a result, the market as a whole as we inch out of this recession in the economy continues to grow at a much slower pace than people want. people are sure. there isn't apprehension. -- there is an apprehension. perpetual state

of apprehension. host: final question. why should people care about this must work why is it important? affects therectly economy, wall street, and main street. how people are trading at it affects everything. it affects those consumer financial bureau, it was created to help taxpayers and americans to fill a they are getting the runaround from the big guys on wall street. suresentially is to make that these people engaging in risky or business. in the mortgage market and student loans as you mentioned. the banking industry, every day. this law is number one purpose is to prevent 2008 from happening again. if it does not fully implemented

, the argue because how can we make sure to does a does not happen again. is a kevin cirilli finance reporter. his work is online at politico.com. >> of the next washington journal thomas bob cusack looks at the congressional agenda. healthcare political editor of shopping for health insurance under the federal health care law. tom curtis discusses federal spending on the water system and infrastructure. "washington journal" live here on c-span. >> coming up tonight, "q&a" with an author which chronicles the life of john hay. minister's questions with british prime minister john

cameron appearing before the house of commons. after that, remarks from touch -- ted cruz. >> this week, and john taliaferro discusses his newly released biography entitled "all the great prizes: the life of john hay, from lincoln to roosevelt." >> john taliaferro, when did you decide to spend a lot of time with john hay, and who was he? delicioused he was a subject for a biography when it dawned on me that he had been, not only at abraham lincoln's bedside immediately after his assassination, but also at the